Sony Crows About Blu-ray, Upcoming PS3 DVR Functionality

Eurogamer/GamesIndustry.biz reports on Sony's pleased statements about the PlayStation 3. The company has made a point to note that Blu-ray was totally worth it after recent comments by some developers who had problems fitting their titles onto a DVD. The interview with the site promises 'big things' for the format in the future. The future of the PS3 itself seems to have changes coming too: a television tuner and DVR functionality looks to be in the offing for the console. Microsoft announced similar plans earlier this year, but there are no firm dates for either company's use of the console.

Comments

Questions Sony needs to answer

[_xeno_]

PS3 as a DVR, huh? Well, that raises the following questions:

• Does it support CableCard?
• If not, how does it change channels?
• Does it support HD? (I'd assume it does.)
• Is it an additional add-on? (I'd assume it is, with a remote.) If so, how much does it cost?
• How does it compare to other DVRs? Specifically, does it require a subscription? Offer TV listings? Offer suggestions?
• Can it record while a game is playing? While a movie (DVD/Blu-Ray) is playing?
• Does it use the same hard drive that games use? Will they be competing for available space?

I think that's my list of questions. I could see it working, but it'd have to be able to beat TiVo on ease of use. I'd rather have a separate DVR, but I can definitely understand that some people would want a combination console/DVD/Blu-Ray/DVR unit.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[LWATCDR]

Gee I have been predicting this from the start.
What I wonder in addition to all of your questions is.
1. Will it let you save the shows to a memory stick to watch on your PSP?
2 Will it let you use your PSP to watch shows over wifi served from your PS3?

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[amuro98]

This isn't the first time Sony has talked about something like this. I remember them talking about a DVR for the PS2 as well. In fact, wasn't that what the short-lived "PSX" was? (yes, there was a real product called "PSX" - and it didn't refer to the PS1 prototype.)

However, with set-top boxes required to decrypt non-OTA HD channels, or even use a satellite dish, and the providers now also offer a built-in DVR for only a little more than their non-HD, non-DVR box, is there really a market for this?

As much as I love my old Tivo, I saw its usefulness coming to an end as more and more stations started moving to HD, which in turn would force us to get a set-top-box from whoever our provider would be at that time.

There's also the problem of cost. Even if the PS3 drops to $400 by next year, I can't see this tuner+DVR package costing less than $100. So you're talking $500 for a 80GB DVR/blu-ray player/game console. This also assumes there no additional service fees for the guide data.

I just don't see the justification here. I can't see the DVR functionality being totally independent here - especially if the DVR uses the PS3's existing HDD. So, while you might be able to watch a blu-ray movie while the DVR does its thing, you probably won't be able to play a game - and if that's the case, why bother with this at all? The original reason I bought my Tivo back in 2001 was so that I could play games and NOT have to worry about missing TV shows. It worked out pretty well. I could game whenever I wanted, then I'd watch The Daily Show while I ate dinner.

The other concern I have is that the PS3 isn't exactly a lightweight when it comes to power consumption. DVRs are active 24/7. (although in its defense, I really don't know how much power my HD satellite receiver/DVR eats up either...)

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[Anonymous Coward]

2 Will it let you use your PSP to watch shows over wifi served from your PS3?

Why wouldn't you be able to? You can already do this with any video source. The PS3 demolishes the other two consoles in media functionality. And yes, I have all three.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[Kratisto]

Perhaps. But I'd rather have my video game console actually play games, and so far, all I've heard from developers is that the PS3 is a pain in the ass to support. They've even lost Metal Gear Solid 4 as an exclusive, which some people cited as their reason for buying a PS3 in the first place. Sony seems to be pulling a Nintendo and losing out on their games library and third party support.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[cbreaker]

Blah blah, poor developers.

Every new platform is difficult if it's not what you've been doing. I don't feel sorry for these people; they're paid to develop titles. And they have been. There's an assload of games being released for Sony's game system.

Exclusives are over-rated; that's why you see a lot less of them these days. I can imagine a world where there's enough room for more then one game console. Why can't you?

ps. Since the PS3 plays games, why not also use it for other things? You know, these things are just fancy looking computers. Why do you rather these things be useless for anything besides playing games?

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[Omeger]

MGS4 is still only coming out for the PS3. There's be no announcement yet about any other platforms.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[LWATCDR]

"Blah blah, poor developers.

Every new platform is difficult if it's not what you've been doing. I don't feel sorry for these people; "

If a system is hard to develop for then the developers will be spending more time just making the game work instead of making the game great. Systems that are hard to develop for tend to fail. the Intel i860 cpu, the apx432, the Connection Machine...
The Itantium is a classic example of how hard to develop for has in impact on success. It floundered early one because the compilers available at launch couldn't generate good code.
"Exclusives are over-rated; that's why you see a lot less of them these days. " So then buy the cheapest system that will play them. That isn't the PS3. To pay a premium for a console there must be software that makes the premium worth while.

While I think the adding of PVR functionality to the PS3 is a good idea it does raise some issues.
1. Can you save the video on other mass storage devices? A home server? an external USB hard drive?
2. Can you use it as a DVR while your playing games? If not then you will miss a show or not get to play a game when you want to.
3. How much DRM will you have put up with? Can I take the show and put it on my PSP? Will I have the option of watching TV with my PSP? Could I forward a port on my fire wall and stream my shows to my PSP anywhere I have wifi? Can I put my shows on my video iPod without a bunch of hacks I get off the internet? Sony's track record makes me think that I will have to give my credit card number each time I watch any show or fast forward a commercial.
4. Will it be a good DVR?
Yes it is nice that a game console can do something besides play games but it needs to play games first. It has to have good games. It has to be fun. It is nice if your car has a good stereo but if it doesn't drive well it is a bad car.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[dreamchaser]

You do know that TiVo has at least 2 models, the Series 3 and the TiVo HD, that not only do HD but work with CableCard specs so that you don't NEED a separate set top box, right? As for being able to play a game while recording, why not? There is ample processing power, or the DVR component could even have a separate co processor to handle encoding/decoding/recording. We just don't know yet.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[Duffy13]

At E3 (July 11th to be specific) it was announced that MGS4 will stay exclusive to the PS3.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[fistfullast33l]

Obviously no details have been released yet, but we can at least speculate (I reorganized your questions):

Is it an additional add-on? (I'd assume it is, with a remote.) If so, how much does it cost?

Seeing as this would be a huge marketing thing if it was built in, I think we can assume that this would have to be an add-on. The PS3 has USB ports, so I'm thinking that's an obvious connection method.

Does it support CableCard?

I don't think we can answer that definitively, but seeing as they already make a digital entertainment product with a CableCard slot, it's possible that this could happen. At least we know they have the infrastructure in place to produce devices with CableCard slots, and are aware that this might be a good thing to include.

Does it support HD? (I'd assume it does.)

Obviously we don't know, but we could go either way here - to support digital and HD cable subscriptions you'd think they'd definitely have to include it. But I have to speculate what their content protection would be on any recorded content. Of course, seeing as the PS3 supports HDMI 1.3, I think it's safe to say this device, if it comes to fruition, definitely would support HD content.

How does it compare to other DVRs? Specifically, does it require a subscription? Offer TV listings? Offer suggestions?

I can't answer that, but my link above to the Sony Vaio XL3 gets a pretty decent, but not perfect, review from CNET. I imagine it won't be a Tivo, but for people like me who don't want to own a Tivo, I'm hoping that this will be an adequate solution. Particularly if you can access the device from within the PS3's linux distro...

Can it record while a game is playing? While a movie (DVD/Blu-Ray) is playing?

If we follow through with the assumption that the device is external, I don't expect it to draw too much power from the PS3 itself. Given that you currently can download content from the web while watching a movie or playing a game, I think that this feature is a must-have, but maybe not available initially. As with the PSP and PS3, I see them following the trend of releasing good hardware with limited features and patching with firmware releases as time goes on.

Does it use the same hard drive that games use? Will they be competing for available space?

Seeing as the ability to connect external devices is built into the current Sony firmware, I don't see how they can not allow you to use an external hard drive or memory card. Of course, the content will be encrypted, so mobility will be an interesting issue...but the ability to take recorded content on the road with your PSP is very intriguing.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[jamie(really)]

The article seemed to refer to free terrestrial DVB digital broadcasting in new zealand.

I wouldn't touch a CableCard based system if my life depended on it. I've never gotten it to work (or I should say my cable company who charge me to come to my house and fuck about for an hour at a time) have never gotten it to work for more than a day. CableCard is quite amusing. The Cable Industry is fucking me about in order to protect someone elses content, while the content providers themselves will sell it to me over download with much less restrictive DRM, and for less money. Its almost as if CableCard was thought up by the content providers to cut the cable card middlemen out of the loop. Ha ha ha ha! I don't subscribe to cable any more. I just use iTunes, XBox Live, Amazon Unboxed, etc. Good job CableCard!!!

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[cbreaker]

Who cares if the DVR thing raises questions? It's a new item, and who knows, it might suck. Ain't nobody forcing me to buy it. It's a fine machine without that, but it might be really cool! I'm patient enough to wait for the details to be released.

Folks like you keep saying "yea all this cool extra stuff is okay but it NEEDS GAMES FIRST." Well, considering how many people and companies are involved with all this, I don't know why you think both can't be done at the same time. From where I sit, there's plenty of games hitting the market. It's a new system; these things take time. I'm happy with the system now. All these free new features just make me even more glad I purchased it.

So to your first point, if "hard to program" is a key to failure, then how come Sony sold 120M+ Playstation 2 systems? That system was actually more difficult according to some sources. Not only that, but they're STILL making games for that system to this day. So there goes that theory.

Your point of the Itanium isn't factual either. Itanium failed because: Too expensive, not compatible with x86 (it could run some code, VERY slowly) and it was targeted at the high-end X86 market - stupid. Yea, the Intel compilers couldn't generate good code. However, the PS3 compilers can. So, with Itanium it just WASN'T POSSIBLE to write fast software. Not true with Cell. Really. Cell ain't that odd.

It's okay if you're unsure about the PS3's future. Don't buy one today. You will eventually, though.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[LWATCDR]

You see I find this post amusing because I am not bashing the PS3.
Yes the PS2 was hard to program. But no the Cell is just that odd when used in the PS3. No one is using the theoretical power of the Cell in the PS3. The memory structure is a mess and dealing with the asymmetrical nature of the CPU core+Cells is really hard. Not impossible but really hard. Notice that all the really big games are getting pushed back. Yes being hard to program is a negative. It is one reason that the XBox did as well as it did. It was easy to write for. They came from zero to very popular system in a single generation.

I didn't say that the DVR was useless or even a bad idea. Was predicting it from the start. I think Sony was stupid not to include it from the start. If they had included the DVR plus the ability to put shows on to the PSP and the Video IPod they would have sold a lot of systems. The price of the PS3 isn't bad as a Blue ray player plus HD DVR that can also play games.

As to me buying one? I really wanted one when they first came out. When I heard you could run Linux on them I thought great I can try out the Cell. But now I just don't want one. There isn't a game on the system I must have or even really want. I don't like FPS, GTA, or fighting games. I really HATE fighting games! I got a Wii after playing a friends and my wife and I love it.
I may buy one but only when it is a lot cheaper and there are games I want for it. I have an HD DVR, a Dreamcast, a PS2, a GC, an N64, a Wii, and a DS. Not to mention the multiple PCs and notebooks in my home. There are not enough Blue Ray DVDs for me to choose from and I will wait to see how that shakes out.

Right now the key to the PS3s failure or success will be games and cost. Can they get developers to write games that make the PS3 worth owning and can they get the cost down so people will buy them for the games. I am glad you like yours but the reality of the gaming industry are numbers.
Developers want to sell lots of games. They write their games for the console that will provide the best market. The more games a console has the more people will buy the console.
The PS3 is far behind the Wii everywhere. It is far behind the 360 every where but Japan.
Yes in Sony doesn't get some great games out then the PS3 will stay in third place. It will be the Amiga of the Consoles. Technically better but lacking software support.
I am glad you like you PS3. I loved my Amiga and wrote some code for it.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[cbreaker]

You claim you're not anti-PS3 but everything you write, including the "Yea and I loved my Amiga" are backhanded insults. Ridiculous.

PS. Being behind the 360 in sales is an old stupid argument. They've been selling that system for a lot longer.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[LWATCDR]

I am insulting the PS3? Gee do you think I hurt it's feelings?
It is a game console. I think it is lacking in many respects like software and cost. Get over it it is just a thing and not your family.
If you like it then fine. I am not anti-PS3 because I don't care enough about it to be anti. It doesn't really matter to me since I don't see enough value in it to play $500 or so dollars for it. I don't own a 360 because I don't see enough value in that. Does that make me anti 360?

The 360 being ahead of the PS3 in sales isn't an argument it is a simple fact. It being out longer is also a plus for the 360. The developers have been working with it longer. They know it better than the PS3. The developer tools for the 360 are better than the PS3. The 360 like the PC really is good enough for HD gaming. A game publisher doesn't care WHY there are more consoles on the market. They care about how many people might buy their game. The market for the 360 is bigger than the market for the PS3. Ever wonder why so many games are still coming out for the PS2? Because there are a LOT of PS2 buyers.The PS2 is a prime example of the best not always winning. Raw performance wise the PS2 was the wost of the last generation gaming systems. Even the GC and Dreamcast had better graphics hardware than the PS2. The emotion engine is a mess to deal with. A LOT of people bought the PS2 because of hype and the success of the PSONE. It including a DVD player was another big plus at the time.
As I said the PS3 may in the end do well. But it will have to get some must have exclusive games and I feel the price will have to drop. I think if the DVR is done correctly and not a broken DRM laden mess it may be a big selling point.
But get over it. You liked the PS3 enough to buy one. If you are happy with it that is all that matters. I don't like the PS3 enough to buy one. I simply took the time to point out what the DVR should do to be a big success.

Re:Questions Sony needs to answer

[amuro98]

Yes, I know about the series 3. I also know the series 3 is $300, and that Comcast doesn't support cablecard (how nice of them!)

So I'll still have to get Comcast's cable box, Comcast's digital cable, and now I'm spending $100/mo. just for programming. And don't forget about the Tivo service fee...

Oh, and since I already have the cable box, why not get DVR for just $10/mo more - that's about the same amount Tivo's 3 year service program costs.

What about satellite? Well, DirecTivo is a thing of the past - otherwise I'd have gone with DirecTV in a heartbeat. Dish has an offer for new customers that essentially gives you a free dual HD tuner DVR.

Seriously, my wife and I love our (series 1, hacked) Tivo, and were trying to find a way to keep a Tivo in our lives as we transitioned to HD, but with the current mess that things are in now, it's actually cheaper to just take the set-top DVR, bugs and all, from the local provider rather than end up spending an additional $300 + $9.95/mo for Tivo.

In 18 months, our contract with Dish expires, and we'll be free to re-evaluate our options at that time. May the best company win.

Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[19thNervousBreakdown]

There's a headline for you. What, they're not supposed to be proud of their invention? A game wasn't unable to fit on a single DVD? If you're going to Sony bash, do it for something valid, like their rootkits, horrible customer service, or the way they managed to destroy Star Wars. Blu-Ray actually isn't bad, so when you gripe about it, it just makes your legitimate gripes look like more bellyaching.

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[Winckle]

Star Wars?

Elaborate.

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[karmatic]

SW:G

'nuff said.

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, dude? 'crow' isn't a negative word.

It just means 'brag'

ie, Sony brags about Blu-ray...

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it is.

An article not written by a miserable fanboy fuck like Zonk would read:

"PGR developer problems with DVD space validate Sony's use of BluRay drives"

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[Winckle]

Ah I see. So much potential.

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, dude, that was damn funny! Yeah right, 'brag' is a totally neutral verb that has no denigrating connotations whatsoever. :)

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[cgenman]

Actually, Bizzare Creations has since retracted that statement, saying instead that the real reason was they wanted to focus financial resources on a weather system.

Which is all fine and good. "Crowing" about it seems reasonable (as defined as "to gloat, boast, or exult"). I'd hardly call that Bile. Also, Sony did use this slightly thin example to say that their Overpriced-but-with-blu-ray strategy had been vindicated.

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[19thNervousBreakdown]

At some point you have to interpret tone, and Zonk has never posted anything positive about the PS3. Given that, and the fact that crowing usually is meant in a negative manner, you have to interpret the post as negative.

Also, I'm tired of hearing that the PS3 is overpriced. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it too expensive? For me, yes. Not that I couldn't have one now, but it's way more than I'm willing to pay. The thing is, it's not milk. It's not electricity. You don't need it, so if you're not willing to pay the money then don't pay it. Blu-ray was and still is a new technology, so yeah, it costs a lot. More than it's worth? Hell yes, early adopters are recouping Sony's development cost for them. Is it stupid to do it this way? I dunno. They had to get a product out to compete with Microsoft and Nintendo, so they couldn't spend more development time to make it cheaper, and if their system didn't knock the other two out of the park they were going to fail. Whether they're profitable or not tells whether it was a dumb move, but just because they're dumb doesn't mean they're evil. Whining about it like Sony's somehow screwing you over by either stealing $600 from you or heniously depriving you of a PS3 at the price you think you should pay is just annoying.

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[Floritard]

Ahem.

Star Wars Galaxies - 2003

Star Wars Episode I : The Phantom Menace - 1999

Give credit where credit is due.

Re:Zonk Vents Bile at Sony

[MeanderingMind]

At some point you have to interpret facts.

Zonk has never posted anything positive about the PS3

This is blatantly false. Here are stories Zonk has posted that are positive.

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/24/ 1312223
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/23/ 2146211
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/11/ 2018259
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/09/ 0253236
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/23/ 214231
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/08/ 1518245
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/26/ 212254
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/25/ 1712247

I could keep going back, but I think the point has been made. None of these news articles have any hint of aggression, dislike, or malevolence from Zonk. Some of the news was later soiled by slip-ups by Sony, but I don't think we can credit Zonk with being able to see the future.

The fact of the matter is that text on the internet is hard to read properly. The intentions of the author are difficult to make out and understand, and it is exceptionally easy to read things the wrong way. I had enough problems on IM with my girlfriend because the body language and tone of voice that would have been enlightening as to my intent with a sentence were lost. Zonk is a victim of people reading into his words a grudge against Sony, and nothing more.

This is great but...

[Anonymous Coward]

...I feel like all of these changes and additions to the console are just so Sony can justify not lowering the price. I'd rather see them work on the fabbing process for their current console and make it smaller and cheaper.

Re:This is great but...

[Doctor_Jest]

So, with the exception of the rumored $50 price drop (which could occur)... what are they adding over in Redmond to not lower the price of their console?

I'd rather see Microsoft fix the flaw in theirs, too. (and I agree... Sony can cheapen it over time, like the PS2... it just takes time...)

Re:This is great but...

[cbreaker]

And I feel like you're spreading FUD. I'm glad they keep making the PS3 better. I was happy when it was just a game console. Now it's a media player, upscaling DVD player, and soon a DVR. How cool is that?

Re:This is great but...

[Kelbear]

Word I'm hearing is:

Well, the good news is that they've started to fix the flaw. They're adding another heatsink and a heatpipe to consoles that are returned for RROD repairs.

The bad news is that the turnaround time on repairs has also increased to 6-8 /weeks/!

New Xbox360 elites from manufacture batches after 7/23 have the 65nm chip and the quieter Benq drives.

However, there are a lot of Xbox360 premiums, so they are going to be clearing all the older ones out into the retail channel before 65nm premium bundles start to show up in stores. I don't know if those will also have the quieter Benq drives. And I'm guessing all those still in the retail channel are still the flawed 90nm ones so people buying those will end up running in the RROD and have to go through the warranty process down the line.

Re:This is great but...

[Doctor_Jest]

That's interesting... I figured the Elites would (this gen, previous to the 'falcon') be 90mm across the board. I want to see the proof (in the pudding) that the 65nm chips solve their systemic flaw before I even bother looking for one. :)

Way to cover up a fundamental flaw, Microsoft. :( I still don't see how they can avoid a recall with their own admission that all the current consoles (the ones in the retail channel as they went to press with their prepared statement) will be failing at some point in their lifespan... But they've avoided one... This is going to cost them in goodwill next gen... (it's still got some goodwill to burn with Halo 3 and GTA coming....)

The problem with the repairs is, lots of times, you get back a refurb rather than your own console, so you have to be connected to live to use all the "rented' content... which is annoying at some levels, maddening at others. :-/ I wonder if there's any way to specify a fix rather than a refurb from them?

PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell did people expect to happen when Microsoft made the inane decision to be the first console maker ever to actually ship a system with LESS storage space than a previous generation.

Atari 2600
NES - more storage space compared to previous gen
Genesis - more storage space compared to previous gen
N64 - more storage space compared to previous gen
Playstation - more storage space compared to previous gen
PS2/Xbox - more storage space compared to previous gen
PS3 - more storage space compared to previous gen

360 - 1 gig LESS storage than the previous gen

Microsoft is fucked and they have only themselves to blame for screwing up last gen and being forced to rush a defective and storage gimped console out to market.

Babbling about 'compression' or 'lazy developers'
Or crying
Or flaming
Or whatever isn't going to change the fact that Microsoft is

FUCKED

when it comes to storage this gen.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[ironwill96]

I do so hate responding to AC's, but just wanted to point out a fatal flaw in your argument. The 360 has a 20 GB base hard drive, some of which is taken up by system storage etc, but I know on my hard drive right now I have 14 GB free, odd if I only have a 7GB drive. Get your facts straight.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

No the 360 does not have a 20 gig base harddrive. Some 360s have harddrives, some don't. Every 360 game is required to run without a harddrive(except some European sports game).

That is why Rockstar has been complaining about what a nightmare being forced to support the gimped 360 is.

And regardless of the lack of a standard harddrive, nothing is ever going to change the fact that the 360 has a gig less storage compared to the PS2 and Xbox last gen.

That is so amazingly pathetic that only a company like Microsoft could ever be that dumb.

You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Anonymous Coward]

You really have to put yourself in Zonk's shoes.

# You just spent the last year or two trashing Sony and the PS3 every single day
# You just spent the last year or two coming up with a bitter spin at the end of every positive Sony news story
# You just spent the last year or two smugly smiling to yourself that you were really fucking Sony over

And now all that effort has been for nothing:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/

Spewing bitter vile seems to be a pretty expected reaction.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[eln]

From your link, the PS3 is number one in Amazon sales (not total sales, just those made on Amazon) and the Wii is number two. Also, the PS3 is selling from Amazon direct at retail price while the Wii is only available through third parties at (at least) $75 above retail price. I would imagine these facts are all related in some way.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, the wii isn't relevant at all, unless you think consoles are like sports teams. The playstation is selling quite well, so is the wii. The wii is competing with the PS2, and Sony won that race before it started... except that they both can win and such a comparison is idiotic.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Mr2001]

Also interesting: there are no PS3 games in that list. There are three Wii games (4 if you count Wii Play), some DS/PS2/360/PC games, but nothing for the PS3 except the controller and remote.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Mr2001]

Actually, the Xbox 360 Elite system is at #19 right now. That's on the first page (1-25).

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[NeutronCowboy]

Cute - another AC unwilling to put his name behind this. If these numbers are so accurate, then why is Halo 3 on that list - twice? Someone's really trying to do some spin himself.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[sxeraverx]

Annoyance? Thanks to the separate brick (well, at least partially), the PS3 doesn't overheat, unlike some other consoles without bricks that I know.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[antek9]

Come again? I was talking about the 360 package if you didn't read my comment. The 360 has a separate brick, yet does overheat just like my wife sometimes does (which means, a lot). The PS3, on the other hand, doesn't sport either of the problems I mentioned: doesn't have an ugly brick, doesn't overheat (and become a brick, mind the pun). It is cool like me (compared to my wife, that is).

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[cbreaker]

Indeed. The PS3 is pretty small considering all it packs in (namely the PSU.) Mine blows some heat, but even when it was hot in the living room, it just keeps on truckin' - even when running Folding@home for a week straight.

The machine is solid. It might cost a little bit more then other systems, but it's a great piece of hardware. Engineered very well.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Yahweh Doesn't Exist]

I find it far more interesting that the Wii is 2nd in an hourly chart despite being out of stock

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Stevecrox]

Did you not read the list? Halo 3 is listed 5th on the list, Halo 3 LIMITED EDITION is at 26th. Its becoming common practice for many publishers to release two versions of the boxes for example Myst V and Myst V collecter edition (the latter came with the soundtrack and the next myst book extract) Black & White 2 and Black & White 2 Limited edition (the latter having a making of DVD.) Most of the time these "limited editions" are brought out during release and generally cost exactly the same although the Halo Limited Edition pack is $10 more expesnive than the standard one. The Amazon database is going to see them as two different items so you will have two different listings. Not all places do this Woolworths in the UK group the two on the shelves but the system see's them as two different items, Virgin Megastore in the UK places them in the chart according to sales I remember seeing Myst V Collectors Edition on the top shelf and Myst V on the fourth shelf when it was released.

Nice uniformed point some may suggest your trying to add some spin.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[British]

When there's not that many games for the PS3, it stands less of a chance of overheating due to less frequent use. It's not a design flaw, it's a feature!

Consequently I run into less problems with Linux than Windows since I only use it as a file & print server! :)

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[LKM]

It regularly claims number 1 (and when it does, a bunch of Wii peripherals often occupy the next few slots) as soon as new stock becomes available. The new stock then sells out within ours, and the Wii falls to second place again, and the peripherals disappear from the top of the list.

If only Nintendo could get production capacity up. They could sell three times as many as they currently do.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Anonymous Coward]

Note: there are only two 360 games on that list (top 25) and both of those are pre-orders

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Mdentari]

So funny. I know a Wii fan who nearly burst a blood vessel every time some mentions what they like about the PS3. He nearly punched out a poor customer who contradicted him at the store he works at. His friends are all the same way or close to it. You would think Sony personally tried to kill them or their families. These days I just try to avoid him and his fanboi posse. No they don't have girlfriends but I'm to sure that would help them anyways. I'm all for pointing out respectfully the pros and cons of each system but why does someone have to make it a issue of extreme argument or violence. Anyone else have this kind of exp?

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[NeutronCowboy]

I guess I missed the part where Halo 3 has been released. Could you please point me to the nearest retailer that is selling Halo 3? Oh? What's that? It hasn't been released yet? Weird. I'm sure it has no impact though on how PS3 numbers are tabulated.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[MeanderingMind]

Zonk would be a very petty man indeed if he got worked up over that list.

It's the video game bestseller list of the North American portion of an online retailer who does not specialize in video games. It is not a statistically sound sample for how any console is doing overall.

If/when the NPD or an analogous operation overseas puts the PS3 on top, laud it and rejoice. This list, however, does not deserve the special attention you continually call to it.

I'm almost inclined to believe you're a very carefully disguised advertiser for Amazon.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you missed the part where people are allowed pay money to pre-order products that have not yet been released.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[tb()ne]

It's the video game bestseller list of the North American portion of an online retailer who does not specialize in video games. It is not a statistically sound sample for how any console is doing overall.

It is certainly not a definitive indicator but it is current and available. To give you a non-American retailer, the German Amazon site currently ranks PS3 at #14 in the games section. The highest ranked XBox360 was #381. Of course, it would be nice to know where the 360 would rank if you combined sales from all models. If anyone could post stats/ranks for other retailers, I would be interested to see how they compare.

Not sure why you think retailers specializing in video games are particularly relevant. I think what's more relevant is which retailers sell the most games/consoles. According to this article (which cites NDP) from 2004, WalMart was the top game retailer.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[donaldm]

Yawn! Oh come on how many times to we have to read this.

The PS3 actually has more games than the Wii, Xbox, Xbox360 put together if you take into account PS1 and PS2 games and it will smooth and upscale them to 1080p if you have a HDTV that has that resolution. Granted the current lineup of native PS3 games is relatively small (over 30 I think) but over time it will grow.

I don't know that may people who can afford all the PS3 games much less the the same number of Wii or even Xbox360 games so just saying there aren't that many games for the PS3 is just trolling. You would get a better response from me if you said "There aren't enough native games on the PS3 I like at the moment". Then I would fully agree with you but then again I can say the same from my perspective about the games for the Xbox360 and Wii as well.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[donaldm]

I am just curious on why you are looking at Amazon for the best game sellers. Why don't you try http://www.vgchartz.com/ the site is much more informative at least you can have a reasonable amount of confidence that the figures are fairly correct. Oh on a different note please don't use the site to compare the DS against the consoles you should compare it against the PSP which for those that are interested is 45M (DS) to 22M (PSP). Surprisingly for some this is actually very good for both hand held devices since both Nintendo and Sony are doing very well with their respective hand-held's.

It must be noted that what does well in Japan may not do well in the US and vice-versa but these markets are tiny compared to the rest of the world which actually has a much bigger market potential.

Re:You'd Be Pissed Off Too...

[Stevecrox]

Theres this amazing thing called PRE-ORDERING take Myst V the only game I pre ordered I paid for the game 3 months before it came out and play.com mailed the game to me a week before its release to make sure I got it on release day. Its standard practice in the games industry you can even pre order films and music albums your either a troll or an idiot I'm not sure which

Sony making a PVR

[chazard]

With their history of unfriendly DRM (think atrac3 and rootkit history) from Sony, I think I will steer far, far away from any DVR functionality that would likely cost me a few hundred dollars to use the existing harddrive in a P3S.
Mind you the idea of running Myth on it could be pretty cool.
C

Re:Sony making a PVR

[Anonymous Coward]

Compared to Nintendo and Microsoft, Sony is the least DRM-y console maker.

Don't forget that the PS3 is opened up for me to develop on, I can copy music and stream many files, I can play stuff on my PSP bought for my PS3. PS3 games are region free, and it's trivially easy to play thousands of nintendo and MAME games on my PS3. Of course, it's not perfect by a long shot, as I can't use the GPU and Sony's otyher divisions have made major errors (such as the root-kit crap, which Sony has already paid its price for).

I think Sony deals more fairly with competitors than Nintendo (sony wouldn't even be in the game industry had Nintendo followed through with their CD idea, which they didn't because of their DRM obsessions). I think Sony deals with third parties pretty well too (I doubt they ever paid 50 million dollars to cripple a game like GTA 4 on other systems).

Sony isn't perfect, but if Microsoft wins, gamers lose big. Games will be subscription based and DRM will be so much worse. If nentendo wins, we will see a return to the "glory days" of the NES and SNES, where developers are forced to limit production of games regardless of quality so that Nintendo can rake in more money with their games. Thankfully, it's not possible for any console make to "win," but all the talk about Sony being the DRM and evil company is ridiculous in the context of Nintendo and Microsoft.

Re:Sony making a PVR

[nuzak]

> if Microsoft wins, gamers lose big. Games will be subscription based and DRM will be so much worse.

I can't speak for DRM, since Sony is just as bad (hell, even the _games_ turn on HDCP), but what makes you think MS is going to do anything to piss off the third party developers for its console? Hell, the 360 has XNA, which is a limited API to be sure, but at least it can use the GPU.

Re:Sony making a PVR

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh I dunno, maybe their 20 year track record of very unethical and, in many cases illegal, business practices? Embrace, extend, extinguish?

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

nightmare, minor complaint. same deal, eh?

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[ironwill96]

Ok assuming you bought the actual version with the hard drive (most people do), here it is on Amazon.Com in the header for ya: http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-Console-20GB-Hard-Drive /dp/B000B43OY4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-3708007-6314047 ?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1186008321&sr=8-1 Note where it says "Includes 20 GB Hard Drive". That is THE STANDARD size hard drive in the Premium SKU (the $399 model with the hard drive). In the new black "Elite" SKU they include 120GB Hard drives.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[kosanovich]

The 360 base system (also called the core system) doesn't have any harddrive. If you buy one of the others then you would have an HD with 20 or 120 gigs depending on the model.

However if you take a minute and look at the AC's post it is pretty obvious that he's not talking about harddrive space. PS2 didn't have 4 gigs of HD space, the PS3 doesn't have any 25/50 gig models. Then when you look at all the other systems listed in his post they did not come with any form of HD. It's pretty clear he's talking about optical drive storage. It looks like he's saying the PS2 had single layer DVD == 4gigs, Xbox dual layer dvd == 8gigs, PS3 blu-ray which is 25 gigs per layer, and he's saying that the 360 has a DVD that only holds 7 gigs.

I have no idea why the 360 would only be able to use 7 gigs per side of the dvd but that's what i infer from his post, and i could probably go google the answer but i really don't care at all.

Star Wars Galaxies

[BKX]

'nuff said

It is $100 less

[SuperKendall]

Just thought you might like to know your wishes have been answered. Well, you and whoever modded you "insightful" asking for something that has already come to pass...

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

The PS2 had a standard dual layer DVD drive that supported 4GB for single layer discs and 8GB for dual layer discs.

The Xbox had the same storage space as the PS2.

The PS3 has a BluRay drive that supports 25GB for single layer discs and 50GB for dual layer discs.

The Xbox 360 has a standard dual layer DVD drive that supports 3.5GB for single layers discs and 7GB for dual layer discs.

There is some sort of DRM/security reason that around a gigabyte of storage is used on 360 discs. The exact details have never been revealed as far as I know.

Re:Pee-Are, it's all Pee-Are

[The13thSin]

You sir, are an idiot! (Also good mod.) Anyway, before this thread turns into a big sony bashing orgasm, cos all good news for teh PS3 obviously warrants that, I'll just mention I'm getting this if they'll keep the price not much over 100 dollars/euro for the hardware addon, and it supports HD (which I presume it will). Nice extra for my media machine I'd say. A nice 300 gig or so 3.5" Harddisk won't hurt either I suppose. Also, for added randomness and since Fox had this nice piece on Anon a short while ago I'll end with: Tits or GTFO. for the "Corrupted LOL" off course.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats all well and good, but who really cares about the DVD space when there still aren't ANY games worth buying for the PS3. I've had one for 8 months and I've bought Resistance and Motorstorm - both games were meant to be AAA titles, yet they suck bigtime compared to the games I've played on my friends Wii.

My PS3 sits in the corner getting dusty, while I'm around at my friends house playing on his Wii and 360, because they have some great AAA games.

I'm really starting to regret putting down $600 for this overhyped console - especially when I look at the release list for the next 6 months - Hot Shots Golf and Lair? Yay - Lair has already proven to play like crap, and I can't stand golf.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, take some FUD lessons for the sake of us all. Reading that attempt at a PS3 flame was like having to listen to someone trying to play as Sax for the first time.

Here's a free tip to get you started with posting quality FUD in the future:

FUD needs to be either funny or biting or even better both. But never retarded, like yours.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[flewp]

Well, there's just not any games YOU like for the PS3.

I know a few people who are plenty happy with a few games for their PS3s.

For what it's worth, I'm not buying a PS3 until there's a few more must have games that interest me. I'm also hoping this will coincide with a price a drop, because while I think the PS3 is fairly priced, it's still too much for budget, given I'd probably only use it to play games. (I have no desire to run Linux, etc) If they add in DVR+TV Tuning, and keep the price the same, I might be more interested though.

I also don't really remember any games for the XBox360 coming out in it's first year that made me want to get one. In fact, there's still no games out for it that make me want to get one. Isn't it kind of the natural way of things for really great games to take a year or more to come out after a system's launch? I know there's exceptions, but on the whole, the majority of good games for the past few generations of systems seem to have, for the most part, come out well after the system has launched. (hooray for excessively long sentences)

No it's not

[Actually, I do RTFA]

They're having a firesale of old 40gig units, lowering the price of the 60 gig units to where the 40 were, and adding an 80 gig unit where the 60 gig used to be priced. But they aren't making 40 gig units anymore.

Re:No it's not

[Anonymous Coward]

It was 20gig, and you yourself admitted that they were 'lowering the price of the 60 gig units to where the 40[sic] were'. How is that not $100 less?

Re:No it's not

[Actually, I do RTFA]

The cheapest normally available unit (and the most expensive normally available unit) maintained the same price. What you get for your money increased, but absent getting one of the discontinued models, you cannot get a PS3 for less money. Hence, it is not $100 less.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but even with the horrific sound of a beginning sax player, you can at least respect the fact that they're trying. Makes you wonder if this guy takes absolutely no pride in the craftsmanship of his FUD or if he's just a giant douche bag.

Can't Wait

[Dr Kool, PhD]

Soon my PS3 will be all of the following:

- 1080P Upscaling DVD Player
- Web Browser
- Blu-Ray Player
- DVR
- PS1 Game Player
- PS2 Game Player
- PS3 Game Player

You really can't argue with the value the PS3 presents. I hope they do the DVR right.

Re:Can't Wait

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool, can you let me know when some decent games come out for it?

Until then I'll keep playing with my Wii. Did you know that Zelda TP has sold more copies than PS3's have been sold?

Re:Can't Wait

[Dr Kool, PhD]

Ninja Gaiden Sigma, Resistance and Motorstorm are all great games. Lately I've been playing MLB 2007 The Show and it's great too. I still love NBA 2K7 and little downloadable games like Super Rub a Dub. I think your assertion that PS3 has no games is without merit.

Re:Can't Wait

[kosanovich]

This is such a stupid troll. "let me know when some decent games come out"?? Yeah let me tell you when a game that you like comes out. If you don't like any of the games on a system then that's fine, don't go out and buy one! I personally look at the releases coming for the Wii between now and the end of the year and the games that i want to play on it are Metroid (because of the hype, not that i think i'll love it all that much), Mario galaxies, and bully (have the PS2 version but want to see what they add).

At the same time when i look at the PS3 releases during the same time i want to play: Lair, warhawk, heavenly sword, stranglehold, skate, ratchet and clank, folklore, GTA IV, Army of Two, Assassins Creed, Haze, Mercenaries 2, Rock Band, and Uncharted.

Now i look at those two list and the PS3 looks a whole lot more appealing to me than the Wii... what does that mean for you? Absolutely nothing. Once again if you don't like the games then don't buy them, i promise the government isn't _yet_ to the point where they will come to your house and break your knees if you don't buy something.

Re:Can't Wait

[Khaed]

Considering how badly they've done everything else... don't hold your breath.

Re:Can't Wait

[MeanderingMind]

To be fair those are great games, but the problem is they are either on the other platforms, remakes of old games for predecessors of the other platforms or have nearly analogous counterparts there.

What is really being sought aren't just good games, but good games whose experiences can not be duplicated by competitors to any close degree.

Re:Pee-Are, it's all Pee-Are

[Anonymous Coward]

Mini-Disc is a hugely successful format. WTF are you talking about? just because it's not a big deal in the United States doesn't mean the enormous popularity of the format can be ignored. Same goes for Euros. It's a big deal, mabye not in Tuscon, but it's a big deal.

Sony has some done some freaking idiotic things, but you can't really deny that the PS3 is at least looking better than it was six months ago.

blu-ray

[Moniker42]

"It was totally worth it" they say? I want some games to play on this effing over-expensive monolithic black tablet taking up all the space on my desk - it's been sitting there turned off for about two months now!

Re:blu-ray

[antek9]

The utter stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Stop trolling, you don't own a PS3, and no one is forcing you to. Are we cool now?

Re:blu-ray

[Moniker42]

Umm... actually I do own a PS3? I don't think what i said was irrelevant (if that's why you're saying i'm trolling) because for all Sony's lauding of the capabilities of blu-ray there still aren't any (in my opinion) particularly worthwhile games out yet.

Re:blu-ray

[antek9]

That's too bad for you then. But would you mind to elaborate why you bought a PS3 in the first place if there weren't any games within reach that might interest you? Just curious.

Re:blu-ray

[cbreaker]

Why did you buy it?

I use mine all the time. It's good enough at all it does to avoid putting a PC under the TV, which I find great. Ohh, and the games I've purchased are great, too.

Re:blu-ray

[feepness]

I want some games to play on this effing over-expensive monolithic black tablet taking up all the space on my desk - it's been sitting there turned off for about two months now! There are 22 games listed at ign.com reviewed at 8 or higher.

There are another 24 in the seven range.

May I suggest visiting a store where they sell games? They have them both online and at your local mall. I've heard games are also available at larger retailers.

Good luck in your search!

Re:blu-ray

[Slothy]

I'm not a PS3 hater, I just wanted to see the games that are 8+. I went to IGN and I saw these:
(here's the URL: http://ps3.ign.com/index/reviews.html?constraint.n ot_null.article.overall_rating=is_true&ordering.or der=desc&ordering.attribute=article.review_date&co nstraint.max_rows=40&constraint.locale=us&sort.att ribute=article.overall_rating&sort.order=desc)

Ninja Gaiden Sigma Action 9.3 Jun 29, 2007
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The RPG 9.2 Mar 26, 2007
MotorStorm [AU] Racing 8.9 Mar 22, 2007
Ninja Gaiden Sigma [AU] Action 8.8 Jul 4, 2007
Super Stardust HD Shooter 8.7 Jul 2, 2007
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas Shooter 8.7 Jun 27, 2007
Super Stardust HD [UK] Shooter 8.5 Jun 21, 2007
Super Stardust HD [AU] Shooter 8.5 Jun 20, 2007
Calling All Cars! Action 8.5 Apr 25, 2007
Resistance: Fall of Man [AU] Shooter 8.4 Mar 27, 2007
F.E.A.R. Shooter 8.1 Apr 20, 2007
Bigs, The Sports 8.0 Jun 26, 2007
Resistance: Fall of Man [UK] Shooter 8.0 Mar 22, 2007

There are only 13 lines there, and there are multiple lines for one game. So if you eliminate the multiple listings, you get:

Ninja Gaiden Sigma Action 9.3 Jun 29, 2007
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The RPG 9.2 Mar 26, 2007
MotorStorm [AU] Racing 8.9 Mar 22, 2007
Super Stardust HD Shooter 8.7 Jul 2, 2007
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas Shooter 8.7 Jun 27, 2007
Calling All Cars! Action 8.5 Apr 25, 2007
Resistance: Fall of Man [AU] Shooter 8.4 Mar 27, 2007
F.E.A.R. Shooter 8.1 Apr 20, 2007
Bigs, The Sports 8.0 Jun 26, 2007

So down to 9. Which is actually cool, 9 good games on a platform in the first year is a great thing. I'm just wondering about the 22 thing. Is this URL wrong, or lacking games that you found elsewhere?

Re:blu-ray

[feepness]

My method was to go to IGN and count the 8s and 9s in their review section. I did notice there were many duplicates for AU and UK and tried to skip them but honestly I wasn't very careful and I have had [hic] a beer or two.

Here for the 8-9 for example.

Being more careful this time I get 16 at 8-9 and 3 at 9+. So 19, not 22. Whoops. But still, anybody who says "my PS3 collects dust because there are no good games" has their head firmly up their ass.

Re:blu-ray

[LoveMe2Times]

But still, anybody who says "my PS3 collects dust because there are no good games" has their head firmly up their ass.

You are neglecting an important point: this is slashdot. I'm not trying to say that dotters are capricious but that our tastes are, on average, not aligned with mainstream. Based on your own reference, it would be very reasonable to expect a significant number of slashdotters to think that the PS3 has no good games. There are several reasons a dotter might feel this way:

1. In the context of this discussion, people are talking about full retail games. StarDust and Calling All Cars don't count.
2. Slashdotters, on average, do not overlap with the fratboy crowd and don't share their tastes. In particular, despite significant popular appeal, sports titles are often derided around here. Any sports title therefore doesn't count, and lops off about half the the games from contention.
3. On average, slashdotters who have PS3s have capable gaming PCs too. For them, anything their PC can do better doesn't count. This includes all FPSs and games that have direct PC ports, in particular from this list Oblivion.
4. As avid gamers in general, rehashes or re-releases of games from previous generation consoles don't count. Therefore Ninja Gaiden doesn't count.

That's trimmed the list from 19 to 4 games that you might expect the average slashdotter to care about on the PS3:

1. Need for Speed
2. MotorStorm
3. Virtua Fighter
4. Tekken

See the problem here? Two racing games and two fighters, both close cousins of the sports genre popular amongst the fratboy crowd. While these genres might be considered "worth playing," they will probably struggle to be considered "good games" and almost certainly wouldn't be AAA or system sellers amongst this crowd.

So sure, the mainstream crowd might find some good games, it's not in the least bit surprising to me if slashdotters see nothing but crap.

Re:blu-ray

[iainl]

By the way, Tekken is a download game, not a retail one. Not that I think there's anything wrong with that, by the way; as a 360 owner I seem to spend as much time on Carcassonne and Geometry Wars as I do on Forza 2 and Crackdown.

Re:blu-ray

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot Resistance and The Darkness. Just curious, since you seemed to have really captured the essence of the average slashdotter, could you provide examples of what are "good games" for the 360?

Re:blu-ray

[MikeBabcock]

I just want to know who all these overpaid people are that think they're going to play more games a year than this. At $70 each with no price drop yet, I own Oblivion, Resistance and Motorstorm and that's it for my budget till closer to Christmas. Then it'll be a toss-up for Ratchet or Lair or something.

There aren't hundreds or thousands of good games for the PS3, but there are quite a few and considering it hasn't been out a year yet, that's pretty impressive. Does anyone remember what the original games for the PS2 were like? Now compare with God of War 2 and think about that a minute.

Re:blu-ray

[ucblockhead]

Shit, I've been playing just Oblivion since April and still haven't finished the damn thing.

It does end, right?

Re:blu-ray

[king-manic]

That's trimmed the list from 19 to 4 games that you might expect the average slashdotter to care about on the PS3:

If you play that game, you could really say that the 360 has about 4 good games as it's mostly sports, FPS, multi-platform releases, games that are better when ported to PC, and re-releases of PS2 games.

Re:blu-ray

[TheBlackSwordsman]

I have to point out that half of these games are ports or remakes of older games.

Ninja Gaiden Sigma - remake of an Xbox game
Rainbox Six: Vegas - also released for PC and Xbox 360 (scored a 9.3 on 360 vs an 8.7 on PS3)
F.E.A.R. - also released for PC and Xbox 360 (scored a 9.1 on 360 vs an 8.1 on PS3)
Oblivion - also released for PC and Xbox 360
The Bigs - also released for Xbox 360 (scored an 8.3 vs an 8.0 on PS3)

Right now "games" just doesn't seem like a great reason to buy a PS3. You can find most PS3 games on Xbox 360, and in many cases they score higher in reviews, for various reasons (often because the Xbox 360 games look better). Of course this is going to change with the release of FFXIII, MGS4 and other exclusive games, but right now I'm not grasping the appeal of the PS3.

Re:blu-ray

[feepness]

I hear they also hate games that start with 'M' so that'll have to go.

Seriously, that was a remarkably silly list. Retail only? What, who said that? And wouldn't an avid gamer want the extra content/visuals in Gaiden? And Oblivion looks far better on my buddies PS3 than it does on my PC.

Re:blu-ray

[MikeBabcock]

lol no it doesn't actually :-)

I played 250 hrs as one character in Morrowind without ever finishing the main plot. You can complete the main quest if you like, but it doesn't "end" the game in any meaningful way.

Motorstorm is a nice break from adventuring and shooting (Resistance: FoM) when I just feel like tearing up some dirt. Resistance I've logged about 400 online battles in and am working my way through the single player game on hard mode right now.

More games? I don't have time :-) lol I'm happy with what Sony's brought me so far, and I'm happy with what's coming down the pipes.

Re:blu-ray

[MeanderingMind]

It's a game that needs to be played.

One of the major issues both Microsoft and Sony have been facing is the problem of uniqueness. While many of the hardware or online features both offer are unique, their software libraries aren't. Beyond titles such as LittleBigPlanet and Dead Rising, most everything on both systems either has been ported outright or has a near equivalent counterpart.

So, having played our game and found both systems wanting, what does one do? We're left with online experiences that are difficult to experience before actually purchasing a console, price tag differences, and the question of Blu-Ray. The price tag is the only thing that isn't abstract of difficult to understand (at least for most people, I can't tell you the number of college-aged people I've met who didn't understand there was a difference between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD).

The end result is that both the 360 and the PS3 are limping along, faster in some places and slower in others. Neither is going to go anywhere until one gives a truly compelling and obvious reason for claiming supiriority.

Re:blu-ray

[Moniker42]

Well I'm a bit of a stickler for playing good games when I have to pay £40-50 for them, I've grown used to finding games on isohunt.com for the PC when i feel like it ;)

My anger at the PS3 is mostly annoyance at myself for buying this console when I would have been better getting a GeForce 8800 and having some cash left over.
And to top it off i just found GTA IV (one of the main reasons i bought the ps3, buying a console for a killer app that isn't even out yet, stupid, i know) has been delayed till spring '08 :(

Re:blu-ray

[doyoulikeworms]

That list doesn't represent all reviewed PS3 games. You need to filter it by "Standard Retail Games" to have all games listed, then sort by score. You'll then get: Ninja Gaiden Sigma 9.3 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The 9.2 Resistance: Fall of Man 9.1 MotorStorm 8.9 Virtua Fighter 5 8.8 NBA Street Homecourt 8.8 Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 8.7 NHL 2K7 8.6 NBA 2K7 8.5 College Hoops 2K7 8.3 Fight Night Round 3 8.3 Madden NFL 07 8.3 Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 8.3 Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge Racer 7 8.2 F.E.A.R. 8.1 Bigs, The 8.0 Which gives us 16 titles with a score of 8.0 or greater (duplicates/non-US reviews removed for consistency).

Microsoft's one not a DVR...

[spectecjr]

The future of the PS3 itself seems to have changes coming too: a television tuner and DVR functionality looks to be in the offing for the console. Microsoft announced similar plans earlier this year, but there are no firm dates for either company's use of the console

Microsoft's one doesn't look like a DVR - but is instead IPTV - it remains to be seen what recording features it will have, but presumably it can work in the background over the network the way that Live downloads work now; as it's multicast, there's probably enough bandwidth for it to come in over your regular network connection without really affecting your transfer rates for other data. Sony's looks like it plans to use an over the air tuner, and even weirder, looks like it's set to be used for Freeview (there's also a NZ equivalent).

Re:Microsoft's one not a DVR...

[Anonymous Coward]

as it's multicast, there's probably enough bandwidth for it to come in over your regular network connection without really affecting your transfer rates for other data. multicast is not some magical bandwidth reducing tech. In network backbones it's great, but all the packets still have to be delivered over the last mile of cable to your house. Besides, how many ISPs actually support multicast all the way into the premises?

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[amuro98]

Yes, yes, but there's also a "360 Core" SKU which doesn't include a HDD at all.

This was solely created as a side-effect of Microsoft thinking that the PS3 was going to originally cost about $400. This way, Microsoft could point to the stupid Core unit and truthfully say "the 360 is cheaper."

And despite the appearance of the Elite, the Core is still going to be sold for the foreseeable future.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, whats FUD about it?

Hey said there are no AAA titles on the PS3 - he was right. Go to IGN if you want, even their SONY fan boy PS3 editor admits that there aren't any great games.

As far as I'm concerned, the guy is correct - we have nothing on PS3 that compares to stuff like Wii Sports, Gears of War or Twilight Princess.

Nice Start

[JamesRose]

But I'll wait till I can see clearly theres no DRM problems.
And then I'll wait for a price drop.
And then I'll wait to see if Blu-ray becomes dominant/affordable.
And then I'll wait for some really good games to come out. ...And then I'll get a PS4 ;)

Re:Nice Start

[Faylone]

Now, the PS4 may be going to be the best console that ever has been or ever will be made ever, but you're assuming it's not going to be even worse than than the PS3 is.

Re:Nice Start

[Mark Gillespie]

Have fun waiting, as PS4 is due in 8-10 years time.

I think you are confusing Xbox release cycles with PS3 release cycles.

Here is a cut out and keep easy reminder.

Historic Console Lifespan:

Xbox 3-4 years
Playstation 7 - 10 years
Nintendo 5 - 6 years

Frankly

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm abit pissed off about this laziness, in the past nintendo has taken absolute crap specs and solved every problem by sheer will power and enginuity, getting amazing performance for the specs. I hate the way sony acts like they actualy currently need the data, I'm yet to be convinced that any of the games couldn't be fit in 4 gigabytes, maybe 5, but that game designers aren't just filling the space because they can. I think of it this way, if 8 bit dispalys were as easy to get as 6 bit displays originally, we wouldn't have such advanced dithering (poor example, but you get the jist). Plus, if they aren't doing smart things to cut down on data, likelihood is that the data is all gonna take ages to be read by the Blu-Ray drives, which aren't any faster!

.kkrieger

[sssssss27]

I'm sure the guys behind .kkrieger are happy they went with BluRay...

http://212.202.219.162/kkrieger

"Sony Crows" Wait until.....

[Anonymous Coward]

....they have to eat it.
  and im a ps3 owner, i just couldn't resist a good joke in a place where it would get a good laugh.

Re:Pee-Are, it's all Pee-Are

[realmolo]

It's looking better, I guess. But that's only because it couldn't look any WORSE.

There still aren't any "system seller" games for it. And it's still too expensive. The only good news, really, is some of the upcoming games that were shown at E3. Most of which aren't coming out until this fall, and most of which are also coming out for the 360.

Sony is still in a world of hurt, I think. The PS3 just doesn't have any momentum at all.

Re:Pee-Are, it's all Pee-Are

[cbreaker]

Says.. you?

Microsoft has only sold (to retailers) about 10 million consoles. Considering Sony sold 120+ million PS2's, I'd say there's still quite a market left of people that haven't pulled the trigger on the Xbox or the PS3. Considering that the Xbox isn't exactly cheap, someone could just as easily buy a PS3 over the 360.

Just like you said, a lot of games are released for both platforms, so it's just as easy to assume someone would buy the PS3 over the 360 because it's more feature-rich out of the box.

All this for $599.99+$99+$149+$X

[photomonkey]

This seems to me like Sony scrambling to offer SOME feature that will move these things off the store shelves. What next? A toaster and removable HDD MP3 player?

Games, guys, games. That's what this thing is made to do. And right now, nearly a year after launch, the titles are the same old crap. And crap available already on other platforms too.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm assuming you're the same person who posted about this last time, so:

Can you PLEASE provide a link that corroborates this, that isn't a two year old Digg article and isn't the Wikipedia?

Otherwise, I think you're full of it. There's no way a DRM scheme would waste that much space. I think you're confusing "dummy files" with DRM.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

I do so hate responding to AC's [...] Sigh. If we ACs had modpoints I'd mod down 5 random comments of yours for that.

It's not discontinued though

[SuperKendall]

If it were discontinued it would be lacking in function in some way. As far as playing games or movies, it is identical to the 80GB model, just with less storage.

Furthermore, what makes you think the 80GB model does not drop $100 as well when they run out of the current ones?

Obviously the price is here to stay, regardless of what people such as yourself looking for an excuse to bash Sony have to say.

Re:It's not discontinued though

[Anonymous Coward]

If it were discontinued it would be lacking in function in some way. Uh, what? It's discontinued as in they arent MAKING it anymore. When the current supply sells, it's gone. For good. That's was discontinued means.

Furthermore, what makes you think the 80GB model does not drop $100 as well when they run out of the current ones? Answer: Sony has said this outright. The 80GB model will not be $100 cheaper. At least not right away.

I couldnt care less about sony or MS, but seriously were you drunk when you made this post?

HDTV with PS3?

[backslashdot]

I wonder if they will come out with an HDTV that has the PS3, DVR, internet browsing, or shopping (or games and movies) functionality built in to it.

I bet the remote for it will suck ass. Won't they build a simpler remote with one or two OLED buttons and/or a touch dial ipod style like the appletv has -- especially if the menus appear on screen? Ideally it would also feature a "touch a button and speak" voice activated remote control capability.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Eivind]

It's ridicolous though, isn't it ? a *20*GB HD ? And the console is *new* can you even imagine how ridicolous that will look in 3-4 years ? Can you even -get- them that small in retail if you try these days ? Sorta like how a 16MB memory-card today retails for aproximately the same price as a 2GB usb-memory (a factor of 128 bigger !)

Yeah, I know they're laptop-drives, which gives miniscule bang-for-buck compared to 3.5" ones, but still.... 120GB is about standard for a new laptop these days, certainly not "ultra elite premium"

For a PVR, with HD, especially one costing $700 or something I'd want a 500GB-drive or similar. Or failing that, at a minimum, the opportunity of hooking up same by way of NAS or USB and have that utilised.

Fuck you Zonk.

[TommyBear]

Fuck you and the bile that you spew forth and your stupid fucking lame tags.

thanks but no thanks..

[MXPS]

Why does everyone care about a DVR, web browser, and the George Forman Grill adapter for the ps3? I know most people including myself; buy a system to play games. That's what matters to most people. I can already record TV shows and other things on the 3 DVRS in my house and I can surf the internet on one of my 4 computers. If you can afford to buy a ps3, you probably already have a DVR and/or a computer, so what's the point of have and paying for a 100 useless options which you already have and can do (and probably much better) without the ps3? Give me some good, quality exclusive games and i'll buy another ps3.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Floritard]

I also don't really remember any games for the XBox360 coming out in it's first year that made me want to get one. In fact, there's still no games out for it that make me want to get one. Thank you. I'm not trying to bash 360 in favor of PS3 (I own neither yet), but it really bugs me that people keep pretending the 360 has this mega library of great software. Hell they don't even have Halo, the only real reason to have owned an original XBox (besides Ninja Gaiden for those of us who could put up with the evil difficulty of it). The only company that has ever consistently released great software at launch is Nintendo, and no I don't have a Wii either. You can't argue with SMB, SMW, PilotWings, Mario64, WaveRace64, Rogue Squadron 2 (maybe a stretch here for the poor GC), WiiSports, etc. Sega didn't slouch on launches either, it's these messy newcomers that want so much to make all that video game money but still don't really have an identity. Thanks but no thanks guys. You just make me wait the 1-2 years until third parties make your systems worthwhile to purchase. See you when you're relevant.

Re:Pee-Are, it's all Pee-Are

[MeanderingMind]

Technically, neither the 360 or the PS3 are doing well if you factor in that the Wii is outselling either one by a ratio of 3 to 1.

Hence, were we to assume (erroneously) that each PS2 bought had a unique owner, would only buy one console and that the entire market was PS2s, the end result this generation would be (given the current trends) 68.2 Wiis, 29.4 360s and 23.4 PS3s.

Of course in reality trends change, people buy new consoles to replace old ones, the market isn't zero sum or static, and the world could always end first.

That said, until the Wii slows, stops or is overtaken the price difference between the 360 and the PS3 is largely a sideshow. Unless either company does something to catch or stop Nintendo they're conceding the Risk board while squabbling over Asia.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[MeanderingMind]

I think that kind of power abuse might be why you don't get modpoints.

Re:Pee-Are, it's all Pee-Are

[cbreaker]

I have a hard time counting the Wii because almost everyone I know with either the 360 or PS3 also have one of those. Then there's the people that have the Wii but plan to buy either the 360 or PS3 at some point in the future.

The reasoning, I guess, is that the Wii is fun for awhile, and fun if you want to swing around and stuff, but there's something missing, and they want more. I'm guessing - better graphics, and something that uses their HDTV as an HDTV.

Re:blu-ray (A properly formatted reply...)

[doyoulikeworms]

That list doesn't represent all reviewed PS3 games. You need to filter it by "Standard Retail Games" to have all games listed, then sort by score.

You'll then get:
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 9.3
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, The 9.2
Resistance: Fall of Man 9.1
MotorStorm 8.9
Virtua Fighter 5 8.8
NBA Street Homecourt 8.8
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 8.7
NHL 2K7 8.6
NBA 2K7 8.5
College Hoops 2K7 8.3
Fight Night Round 3 8.3
Madden NFL 07 8.3
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07 8.3
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge Racer 7 8.2
F.E.A.R. 8.1
Bigs, The 8.0

Which gives us 16 titles with a score of 8.0 or greater (duplicates/non-US reviews removed for consistency).

Re:Pee-Are, it's all Pee-Are

[donaldm]

Too expensive means to many that "you can't afford it". My simple answer to that is buy something you can afford. But please take into account game prices. If you want to really save money buy a PS2, there are a huge amount of games for it and it is still supported with new games still coming out for it.

If you really want a PS3 then I suggest looking around you may pick one up reasonably cheaply, retailers do actually deal if you are not in a hurry. Since the PS3 will also smooth and upscale PS1/2 games to HDTV standards you really don't have to wait for native PS3 games to enjoy a PS3. I only have one PS3 game (Oblivion) which keeps me entertained (got to get some sleep) but I have many PS2 games that I own and can even buy that I can really enjoy as well.

I also suggest you look at http://www.vgchartz.com/ and look at console sales to date, 10.2M (Xbox360), 9.88M (Wii) and 4.1M (PS3). Looks like the PS3 is going downhill but overall sales of a console don't mean much without taking games (take a look at the top games in Japan and the US) and services into account as well. If you use the charts properly (align launches) you will see the purchase numbers of the PS3 is almost tracking the Xbox360. The Wii is actually an exception but since it is almost 2.5 times cheaper than the PS3 it is no wonder that it has sold more quickly but the question remains will most of the people who buy a Wii actually buy many games?

For those people who can't be bothered at looking at game sales (July 2007):
Japan
1 Wii "Mario Party 8" 278,426
2 PS3 "Everybodys Golf 5" 184,354
3 DS "Taiko Drum Master DS" 89,666
4 DS "Its a Wonderful World" 86,906
5 PS2 "Powerful Pro Baseball 14" 49,217

USA
1 PS2 "Guitar Hero Encore Rocks the 80s" 374,519
2 Xbox360 "NCAA Football 08" 106,293
3 DS "Pokemon Diamond / Pearl" 97,663
4 Wii "Wii Sports" 95,171
5 Xbox360 "NASCAR 08" 70,159

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[donaldm]

The PS2 had a standard dual layer DVD drive that supported 4GB for single layer discs and 8GB for dual layer discs.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_2 _DVD-9_games

The Xbox had the same storage space as the PS2.
This one is not true the Xbox had a 8GB disk drive (http://www.xbreporter.com/xbox_system_specificati ons.php) but a modded Xbox could take a much bigger drive. The PS2 could take a 40GB add-on disk drive although from what I can gather it wasn't really supported.

The PS3 has a BluRay drive that supports 25GB for single layer discs and 50GB for dual layer discs.
If you want conformation type "PS3 Specifications" in any search engine or read any electronics or HI-Fi store catalogue.

The Xbox 360 has a standard dual layer DVD drive that supports 3.5GB for single layers discs and 7GB for dual layer discs.
This does seem odd since a single layer DVD is 4.7GB and a Dual Layer is 9.4GB. If this is true then what is being done (DRM anyone?) with the spare capacity. The URL I found was http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEFpFlZApk tdrRCUeP.php and there are many others.

Re:PS2/Xbox 4/8 Gigs, PS3 25/50 Gigs, 360...7 Gigs

[Anonymous Coward]

It wasn't that serious a comment, actually. The point was pretty much the opposite: Karma bitchslapping is what you registered users do and I'm not participating in that game.