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Industry Fallout from GTA IV Delay

Posted by Zonk on from the crime-does-pay dept.

SET writes "MSNBC has an interesting writeup on the shakeups in the gaming industry following Take-Two's announcement that Grand Theft Auto IV has been delayed. The article examines the problems this creates for Microsoft and Sony, both of whom were expecting GTA IV to help boost Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 sales this coming holiday season. 'Analyst Michael Pachter told Web site GamesIndustry.biz that he believes Rockstar has delayed the game because it is struggling with development on the PlayStation 3. Sony denies this charge and said that the company has a dedicated team working with Rockstar on "GTA IV." They say they're not that worried about the delay and would prefer that Rockstar take the time it needs to perfect the game. "We'd love to have [it] out as soon as possible," said Sony spokesperson Dave Karakker. "But we've never had a single game make or break any of our platforms. That's not how we built 100 million sales of [the] PlayStation 2, and that's not how we'll build 100 million in sales of [the] PlayStation 3."'"

109 comments

  1. Huh? by _PimpDaddy7_ · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    The article examines the problems this creates for Microsoft and Sony, both of whom were expecting GTA IV to help boost Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 sales this coming holiday season.

    As far as I know, Microsoft cares more about releasing Halo 3 this year than GTA IV. They are just saying it for PR purposes. I'm sure Microsoft could care less when GTA IV comes out, they have many great games coming out this year and early next year.

    1. Re:Huh? by MarkAyen · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Ultimately, the GTA IV delay helps Microsoft more than it hurts them. Microsoft already has a blockbuster holiday season lineup in the works, even without GTA IV. Sony, on the other hand, was relying on GTA IV as one of the cornerstones of its 2007 holiday strategy.

    2. Re:Huh? by Samedi1971 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As far as I know, Microsoft cares more about releasing Halo 3 this year than GTA IV. They are just saying it for PR purposes. I'm sure Microsoft could care less when GTA IV comes out, they have many great games coming out this year and early next year.

      No, actually Microsoft made it very clear that GTA IV was expected to be one of the big three system sellers this year, along with Halo and Madden. It was important enough that Peter Moore tatooed it on his arm, for cryin' out loud!

    3. Re:Huh? by realthing02 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I disagree, while they are happy that Halo 3 is coming out, their projections of units sold took into account the release of GTA IV, a very different game than halo3 (and thus attracts a different demographic), and will therefor have implications on bottom line, and shareholder expectations.

      With everything going on recently, including the extended warranties, reversal on Xbox 360 not needing an HD, and GTA IV not being released... Microsoft can't be very happy about much right now.

      Gamers on the other hand, can be happy about a lot of cool games coming out, regardless of GTA IV.

    4. Re:Huh? by Pluvius · · Score: 2, Informative

      All Halo 3 does is give Microsoft the fans that they already have. GTA4 gives them new users. I don't think it's going to have a major effect since the XBox always got GTA games after a while anyway, but it's going to be a bigger effect on system sales than Halo 3. Halo 3 was always going to be about the sales of the game itself, the profits of which MS gets to itself.

      Rob

    5. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      could NOT care less. "could care less" means, well, they could indeed care less than they do.

      But we've all been through this a hundred times before.

      (anonymous) *sigh

    6. Re:Huh? by ivan256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A multi-platform game isn't the cornerstone of anybodies holiday season. If the game is the same on both platforms it shouldn't help sales of one any more than the other.

      However in the case of GTA IV, there's Xbox exclusive content, but no PS3 exclusive content. If anything it would have helped Xbox sales, not PS3 sales. A delay of GTA hurts MS more than Sony, but it really doesn't hurt either of them much at all relative to each other.

    7. Re:Huh? by Grave · · Score: 1

      Sure the delay of GTA doesn't help Microsoft in the near future, but slightly longer-term, it helps by improving sales and marketing efforts for the other games coming out that are also very solid, and thus attracting an audience that is otherwise put off by GTA. I've never had any interest in that genre, and I'm not alone. Plenty of gamers out there don't like GTA, but a good FPS or RPG can make them buy a system. Sure it won't be the numbers that GTA can move, but it'll be a different set of gamers.

      It's not like they're canceling GTA for 360, so there will still be plenty of 360s sold this coming Q4 based just on the expectation of getting GTA in a few months.

    8. Re:Huh? by nacturation · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think what he's saying is that if there's 30 great games out for the XBox360, not having a 31st great game isn't all that much. However, if the PS3 only has 10 great games, then not having an 11th great game is three times worse. I'm pulling those numbers out of a .cx domain, but that's the gist of it.

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    9. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We could all care less about your post fucktard!

    10. Re:Huh? by djupedal · · Score: 1

      "Sure it won't be the numbers that GTA can move..."

      "...there will still be plenty of 360s sold this coming Q4 based just on..."

      hmm... I got whiplash from this.

      First you discount a particular statistic, and then you use it to nail down your statement. Overall, none of what you said has any basis in lucid thought. A hollow comment - what are the odds...

    11. Re:Huh? by MarkAyen · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I should have been more clear. Sony was relying on GTA IV to drive hardware sales. Xbox 360 hardware sales are already strong and they have an installed base an order of magnitude larger than Sony's, so hardware sales aren't really an issue for Microsoft. Sony, on the other hand, needs hardware sales; yes, they're losing money on every unit, but unless they can convince developers that there's a significant user base out there, the 360 will start seeing more and more exclusives, as developing for the PS3 will simply not be worth the effort (much like the Xbox wasn't in the last generation).

      Now, if gamers were rational (in the economic sense), you'd be right. GTA IV with exclusive content + a cheaper console + lots of other great games >> no exclusive content + more expensive console + not a lot of great games. However, there are a lot of Microsoft-haters out there who are just looking for an excuse to buy a PS3, but Sony hasn't given them a compelling enough reason yet. And, in fact, this might be the tipping point that makes them buy a 360 regardless of their feelings towards MS.

    12. Re:Huh? by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      I think you need to look up the definition of "Order of Magnitude"...

      Unless "about twice as many" and "ten times as many" became the same thing while I wasn't looking...

    13. Re:Huh? by SailorSpork · · Score: 1, Troll

      They [Sony] say they're not that worried about the delay and would prefer that Rockstar take the time it needs to perfect the game. In PR-Speak, this translates to "we want it pushed back as long as possible so that it runs as well on Sony hardware as Microsoft hardware." I don't think Sony would have said it quite this way if it was a multi-platform development issue.

      In addition, note that they didn't ask Microsoft if they minded the delay, because their response would be "of course we mind, its not developing for *our* platform that's holding the release date back."
    14. Re:Huh? by TikiTDO · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Though not really related to anything, I'll see your "Order of Magnitude" and raise you a "Mathematical Base".

    15. Re:Huh? by cowscows · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A multi-platform game might be a corner-stone when you don't have that many other games coming out, and the game in question is a huge name like GTA. I bought my PS2 because I wanted GTA3. When GTA IV comes out, I will want it, and my Wii won't run it. So I'll likely end up buying either a 360 or a PS3. I'm not sure which one I'm going to get right now, but Sony's chance of selling me a PS3 will go from approximately 0% right now to somewhere around 50%.

      Sony needs more excellent games for the PS3. Exclusives are best, but multi-platform doesn't hurt.

      --

      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    16. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watching an idiot try to sound smart is like putting an epileptic in a nightclub - a source of endless amusement.

      You might want to brush up on those reading comprehension skills. They really do come in handy.

    17. Re:Huh? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Actually, I doubt anything would make me buy a Microsoft Console (at least while the games still come out for Windows..). The price of the PS3, and the price and lack of content on blu-ray so far, does stop me from getting one thus far though. I have a Wii, which I similarly never use. That's my first ever nintendo console purchase, but my family have had a PSX and PS2 so far, so I have a decent library of games that I could "borrow" to play on my PS3 (I could of course get a cheap PS2 to play those games, but that just doesn't appeal to the gadget geek in me..)

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      which is totally what she said
    18. Re:Huh? by Chosen+Reject · · Score: 1

      Xbox 360 hardware sales are already strong
      Saying the Xbox 360 is selling well is the same as saying the Xbox and the Gamecube were selling well.

      It also says that the PS3 is selling well.

      In fact, at the rates they are going, the only reason MS has more units sold than the PS3 is because it came out a year before. I'll grant that those charts show a bump for Sony due to its price cut, but the Xbox 360's price cut hasn't had a chance to materialize yet. At this point, however, we can look at the previous generation and see that the Xbox 360 AND the PS3 are headed for the same fate as the Xbox and Gamecube fate of last generation. The growth of the Wii will eventually take most of the developers and thus the games. The Wii is the fastest selling video game device of all time (faster then the PS2, Gameboy, DS, PSP, etc.) which no developer/publisher expected. They were all caught looking the other way, and are slowly realizing they can get a bigger market share for lower development costs.
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    19. Re:Huh? by giostickninja · · Score: 1

      Wii faster selling than the DS? Are you kidding me? Check out the numbers, man. http://www.vgchartz.com/

  2. So, come Christams time... by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The 360 will have Halo 3. The Wii will likely have Mario Galaxies and possibly even Super Smash Brothers Brawl. And the PS3 will have... what? How many crappy holiday seasons can Sony survive?

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    1. Re:So, come Christams time... by ObiWanStevobi · · Score: 1

      Not just Halo 3. For the 360, Halo 3 was just one on my list of must-buys this year. I'm actually relieved that GTA is moved back because there are too many other great games hitting the 360 around the same time. For me, I'm looking forward to Mass Effect, Ace Combat 6, Halo 3, Blacksite, and Assassin's Creed. Along with some others I'm interested in (two worlds, bioshock, etc.), but at $60 a shot, that's already $300 without GTA. PS3, on the other hand, I'd be awfully sick of Oblivion and Resistance by the time GTA comes out. At least with the 360, I had Saints Row, Dead Rising, GRAW, Perfect Dark, and Oblivion to tide me over until a more solid line-up comes out.

    2. Re:So, come Christams time... by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      Lair, Heavenly Sword, and Ratchet & Clank, among other non-exclusive games that may or may not drive sales based on looking better than their 360 counterparts. Not too impressive, but the Wii's library is not all that impressive either, and the 360 has had a year's head-start.

      Rob

    3. Re:So, come Christams time... by the+computer+guy+nex · · Score: 1

      Fanboys will carry Sony to a mediocre PS3 life. If this generation's trends continue, they won't be around for PS4. The poor first year of this console will hurt Sony much longer than some think.

    4. Re:So, come Christams time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, Warhawk, Haze, and Uncharted.

    5. Re:So, come Christams time... by realinvalidname · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The 360 will have Halo 3. The Wii will likely have Mario Galaxies and possibly even Super Smash Brothers Brawl. And the PS3 will have... what? How many crappy holiday seasons can Sony survive?

      I think they're banking on a couple, actually. Their stubborn resistance to permanently lower the price and their continued statements of pride (if not bombast) makes me think that they believe the Wii is a short-term thing, a fad, one whose technical limitations will cause it to hit the wall in a year or two, at which point the PS3 will become the mainstream machine, and still command a hefty price. By this thinking, the 360 isn't a concern; while the Wii is outselling the PS3 6-to-1 in Japan, it's outselling 360 by 15-to-1 (or, crunched another way, even the lowly PS3 is outselling 360 almost 3-to-1). Hopelessly irrelevant in Japan, 360 isn't the competitor, and Sony is simply counting on Nintendo to fail.

      Crummy idea? Wishful thinking? I'd say so. But that's what this behavior looks like to me.

    6. Re:So, come Christams time... by powerlord · · Score: 1

      You forgot Warhawk.

      To quote a recent preview

      "The online blast we'll still be playing when Halo 3 is a distant memory" ... that would be the title, and certainly enough to be fighting words. :)

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    7. Re:So, come Christams time... by EggyToast · · Score: 1

      Agreed. The PS2s first year was poor, but it followed it up with a damn good 2nd year. And, more importantly, it essentially has zero competition during that first year. So it didn't matter that there weren't that many games, or that they were crappy -- it could actually get away with just wowing people with fancy graphics.

      By the time the other consoles had gotten past their "launch window," the PS2 was coming into its heyday.

    8. Re:So, come Christams time... by asuffield · · Score: 1

      And the PS3 will have... what?


      4.5 million sales, so far.

      How many crappy holiday seasons can Sony survive?


      At the rate they're making money? Longer than their customers are likely to live.

      Microsoft's xbox division has still not managed to show a profit - ever (the first xbox lost them several billion dollars over its lifespan). It doesn't matter how much you want to label the PS3 as a failure; by any reasonable business measure ("How much money have we made?"), Sony have once again come out miles ahead of Microsoft. The problem with these "market penetration" schemes is that they don't do you any good unless you can convert that penetration into profit, and Microsoft haven't yet shown any ability to do this, despite running a great many penetration schemes in a great many different markets.

      Sony's strategy this time around should come as no surprise to anybody. They can't out-spend Microsoft, who are willing to lose billions and can support it with the Windows profits, so they're playing the long game and trying to out-last them, on the assumption that Microsoft's shareholders will eventually get tired of business ventures that waste money with no return.
    9. Re:So, come Christams time... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      ft. The problem with these "market penetration" schemes is that they don't do you any good unless you can convert that penetration into profit, and Microsoft haven't yet shown any ability to do this, despite running a great many penetration schemes in a great many different markets.

      You fail to understand MS's brilliance. The XBox, Zune, etc don't need to make money, because they keep people locked into the OS, (and in the 360's case, argue for upgrading). Mostly they need to prevent other people from achieving any kind of foothold that can curve back. And since consoles are starting to become computers hooked to TVs (although I keep my Console as a Console and my PC connected to the TV the web srufing machine), MS needs that market not to go to someone else. iPods gave Apple more cachet, which is dangerous, etc.

      P.S. I know I put a typo in surfing, but I don't believe in backtracking to fix typos.

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    10. Re:So, come Christams time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      4.5 million sales, so far.


      Dreamcast sold 10m, quoth Wikipedia.

      Sony is in a world of hurt. None of their really big titles (Metal Gear, LittleBigPlanet, GTA) will make it in time for the Christmas season. That will hurt their sales a lot, and at a crucial time. The worse they do, the more resources US devs will shift to the 360, and Japanese to the Wii. In the end, a system lives or dies by its games, so reduced interest from the devs sets up a negative feedback cycle.

      Of course, Sony's not dead yet, and if they can limp on until 2009, maybe then they'll be able to catch up once their price drops and someone figures out how to use the Cell, but for the moment Sony is not in an enviable position at all.
    11. Re:So, come Christams time... by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      Dreamcast sold 10m, quoth Wikipedia.

      In three or so years, yes it did. The below chart doesn't include non-Japanese sales for the DC for some reason, but the point that I'm trying to make is that the PS3 hasn't yet gotten to the "decline" portion of the DC lifespan. While the DC had nowhere to go but down after its excellent launch lineup, the PS3 has nowhere to go but up after lowering its excessive price, leveraging BluRay's strength in the next-gen media wars, and building towards a reasonable game library.

      http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons1=PS3&reg1=All &cons2=DC&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&align=1

      I've also put the 360 up there to show how well it aligns with the PS3, which is probably the most damning bit of evidence against all of the people who think that the PS3 is destined for failure.

      The worse they do, the more resources US devs will shift to the 360, and Japanese to the Wii.

      The US shift might happen, but not the Japanese one. The Wii simply isn't powerful enough to do everything that big game developers want to do. There's a reason why there are so many games from both Eastern and Western developers that are on the 360 and PS3 but not on the Wii. The games that developers want to do on the Wii--party games and substandard ports, mostly--they're already doing on the Wii, so there won't be any shifting of resources beyond what was done nearly a year ago when the Wii's sales surprised everyone.

      The idea that none of the PS3's heavily anticipated titles are coming out this holiday season is incorrect, BTW, as noted elsewhere in this article's comments.

      Rob

    12. Re:So, come Christams time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The US shift might happen, but not the Japanese one. The Wii simply isn't powerful enough to do everything that big game developers want to do.

      The average Japanese game is a dating sim like "Super Princess XXVII" or whatnot. The Wii is more than powerful enough for it.

    13. Re:So, come Christams time... by Control+Group · · Score: 1

      P.S. I know I put a typo in surfing, but I don't believe in backtracking to fix typos.

      I have to wonder if the effort you saved in not backtracking to fix typos was greater or less than the effort to explain why you didn't want to do so.

      I'm assuming, of course, that your stance on this issue is related to the overall efficiency of the process, rather than principle, because I can't imagine what sort of principle would lead you to not backtrack to fix typos.

      On the other hand, I don't pretend to omniscience, so if there is such a principle at stake, I'd love to know about it. Then I could use it as an excuse for the typos I don't catch.
      --

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    14. Re:So, come Christams time... by pokerdad · · Score: 1

      The Wii simply isn't powerful enough to do everything that big game developers want to do.

      The big game developers just want to do one thing - make money. If they determine that the best way to do that is to make games on the Wii, then they will make games on the Wii. Game developers never really wanted to produce super-pretty games (they are very expensive to make after all), but they have been producing graphics intense games because it was seen as the only way to make a top seller; that may be about to change.

      there won't be any shifting of resources beyond what was done nearly a year ago when the Wii's sales surprised everyone.

      I suppose it depends how you define shifting of resources. Will projects be suddenly moved to the Wii? Probably not. When existing projects are finished will staff be put on to new projects that are for the Wii? Count on it; even if some of those are just mini-game collections.

    15. Re:So, come Christams time... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Its interesting if you go back to a parts break-down of the PS3 and see that the BD components only add about $20 to the cost of making a PS3 IIRC. I'd like to see a comparison break-down on the 360's components and then work out how much Microsoft is losing on every console sold. Yay, so Sony loses money on initial consoles, they did with the PS2 too. But Microsoft lost money on EVERY Xbox ever sold, EVER. Microsoft could be selling you that "cheaper" 360 and losing more money per unit than Sony is. We can't know, because they won't tell you.

      PS, Microsoft themselves admitted their one fear this generation was in Sony's hardware capabilities -- that is their ability to continually refine the manufacturing of their consoles to turn a profit. Look at how many PS2 generations Sony built.

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    16. Re:So, come Christams time... by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 1

      I think most people dismiss the Ps3 because they're comparing the 2nd wave of 360 games to the 1st wave of PS3 games. The PS3 hasn't been out as long as the 360, and few people acknowledge the weakness of the launch titles *cough* Madden 06 *cough*. There was a SERIOUS drought of games for the 360 for quite a while after launch (I know because I was looking for games to give me a reason to buy a 360... waited until last fall to get one), not to mention the frequency of delays for some of the flagship titles early on... The difference of course is, Microsoft was first, so their initial lack of movement wasn't as visible. Now we see the recently launched PS3 having the same issues in its first year that MS had in theirs...( and that hasn't even had a proper Christmas yet, I don't count "launch Christmas" as a first one, by any means... even on the 360).

      The key here is 2008. I think the titles flowing out to the PS3 in 2008 will spur some decent Christmas sales... just as the anticipation did so for the 360's, in the face of current droughts (at the time they had them.)

      Does this mean I'm predicting the PS3 to overtake and trounce the 360? No, but I suspect the Ps3 will comfortably carve out a niche and be a respectable platform that will have nice games that aren't always ports... :)

      The 360's RRoD problem looms constantly, and everyone seems to think the 65nm chips are the solution... possibly, but who knows? The HDMI-equipped Premium consoles (non Elites) is becoming an interesting development as well... the DVR capability for the PS3 is additionally a concept worth looking into as well as "home".

      We'll see... but I think most of the "faithful" will still pronounce Sony's console dead at every corner... And vice versa. Meh, I don't care. I just want games... and I think we all do. :-)

      P.S. I own both. :) So I win either way. ;)

      --
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    17. Re:So, come Christams time... by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 1

      And by that time, Sony will have only an old PS3 to sell, Nintendo could probably develop an HD Wii to better compete, and it'll be close to Microsoft's refresh cycle for the third Xbox anyway. Brilliant.

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    18. Re:So, come Christams time... by F34nor · · Score: 1

      But all they need to do is add another cell and the PS3 will scale rapidly. Remember that now that the PS3 has hit SETI it has doubled its capacity. All the PS3 needs is for the developers to unlock it for it to move forward.

      I think you are right about the Wii HD or the Wiii as I'd call it. Minor advancement in power paid for by buckets of cash would take the Wii higher at a brisk pace.

      From what I've seen of the coming year Bioshock will own Halo3 and GTAIV. System Shock is one of the best games of all time and something new rather than another sequel.

    19. Re:So, come Christams time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the PS2's first year was better than any other console ever did in its first year. Some people think the PS2 did poorly during its first year because they look at the worldwide graphs on VG Charts but don't realize that the data for the PS2 doesn't include sales outside of North America and Japan.

      Although the Wii is actually doing slightly better than the PS2 did at this point in its lifetime.

    20. Re:So, come Christams time... by Chosen+Reject · · Score: 1

      Sony in a world of hurt? Either you are woefully ignorant of the facts, or you are a fanboy of the purest kind. I'm no Sony lover, but look at the facts. The PS3 has sold as many units as the Xbox 360 at the same time in its lifetime. They are selling at the same rate. Even now the PS2 (a seven year old console) is selling more than the Xbox 360 is each week. The costs to make a PS2 are small now. That is pretty much pure profit for Sony. That means each week, the PS2 probably makes more in profit than the 360 makes in revenue. Sony isn't hurting for money, and the PS3 isn't hurting either. Take a look at VGChartz.com and inform yourself.

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    21. Re:So, come Christams time... by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      Game developers never really wanted to produce super-pretty games (they are very expensive to make after all), but they have been producing graphics intense games because it was seen as the only way to make a top seller; that may be about to change.

      There doesn't appear to be any indication of that thus far. Removing pack-in Western sales of Wii Sports from consideration, the attachment rate for the Wii is much lower than that of the similarly-selling XBox 360 even despite the latter console's failure in Japan. Only eight games have sold over a million copies, only two of those over two million, and most importantly, the top six of those eight are all by Nintendo. And even if the Wii were to get more massively selling third-party games, it wouldn't change the fact that there are still millions of gamers out there impressed by beautiful graphics. Not to mention the fact that the processing power of the other two systems can be (and have been) used to effect in other aspects of a game besides graphics, such as physics and AI.

      Rob

    22. Re:So, come Christams time... by cspariah · · Score: 1

      I think you are confusing "game developers" with "game publishers". They are not necessarily the same thing. From the publisher's point of view, they want to sell lots of games. From the developer's point of view, they want to make good games. It's like the difference between a book publisher and a book author. Obviously I'm grossly oversimplifying but the difference does exist.

  3. Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by MadHatter2005 · · Score: 0, Troll

    I'm hoping that this delay will further wake up Sony to just how bad their developer support is compared to Microsoft. Developing a modern game is complicated enough without having deal with buggy SDK's, poorly documented pipelines, and badly translated documents describing cycle-counts that must be adhered to lest the whole thing seizes up. Since the PS2 was a success I guess Sony didn't feel the need to get their dev support in gear, but maybe with the struggles they're having with the PS3 it will focus more of their attention on this problem.

    1. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by Pluvius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The idea that the PS3 is responsible for the delay is unfounded speculation. It would be just as valid to suggest that the XBox 360 is causing problems with its inferior media capacity, or that Rockstar itself simply underestimated how much work the project would involve. Unless Rockstar itself reveals what's going on, we're never going to know the truth.

      Rob

    2. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      It's speculation, but it's hardly unfounded.

      There have been plenty of demos of GTA4 running on the Xbox 360, but none of it running on the PS3.

      It's safe to say that the cause for the delay is the well-known difficulty of developing for the PlayStation 3.

    3. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by MadHatter2005 · · Score: 1

      The idea that the PS3 is responsible for the delay is unfounded speculation

      True enough. I can tell you from direct experience, however, that the PS2/3 is much more difficult to develop for than the XBox/360. It would not surprise me that the hold up is due to Rockstar having difficulties in getting the PS3 to do what it should.

    4. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by Pluvius · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There have been plenty of demos of GTA4 running on the Xbox 360, but none of it running on the PS3.

      That may be because the engine that GTA4 uses was made for an earlier 360 game. This leads to another valid argument: The PS3 version is taking longer to develop because of difficulties in porting the engine. These difficulties would be the same if the engine had originated on the PS3 and needed to be ported to the 360, so it's not a problem with the PS3.

      It's safe to say that the cause for the delay is the well-known difficulty of developing for the PlayStation 3.

      I remember that the PS2 also had a "well-known difficulty" of development, but that didn't seem to affect it so much.

      Rob

    5. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by DrXym · · Score: 1
      There have been plenty of demos of GTA4 running on the Xbox 360, but none of it running on the PS3.

      That really means nothing in itself. It's probably easier to QA and maintain a single platform for demo purposes.

    6. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by ThePiMan2003 · · Score: 1

      Unless they waited to port to the PS3 until the 360 code is done, and they are having lots of trouble finishing the 360 code on time putting the whole thing behind schedule. The cool thing about speculation is that you can speculate any way you want.

    7. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but generally speculation that's devoid of logic (and yes, I mean yours) can be dismissed out of hand.

      Well, to be fair, we can assume Rockstar is staffed entirely with people who have no idea how to make games. Then your idea makes sense. Kind of flies in the face of history though.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    8. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow ad hominem much?

    9. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, and obviously they'd want to do their demos on the platform they were having the most trouble with, to make it more likely that bugs occur and the press can report on them... right?

    10. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry for the wild speculation here, but are you an armchair game developer, or have you ACTUALLY used the PS3's SDKs? Last I heard from industry sources, the PS3 dev kits come with amazing APIs, its just that Microsoft's dev environment is more familiar to Windows game developers. Sony also promised to work on these issues, I'm not denying them, but what's your source exactly? Or are you just repeating FUD you read somewhere else?

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    11. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by Criterion · · Score: 1

      Omg, I love to see noobs that learn new words, and try to use them before they really know what they mean. They're just so darned cute!

      --
      We have enough youth, how about a fountain of SMART?
    12. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by DrXym · · Score: 1
      That's a pretty stupid remark. If you have a game spanning multiple consoles you are not going to waste time maintaining demo code across platforms when showing it on one will do.

      In itself it does not suggest there are problems or bugs in the PS3 version and frankly only someone who hasn't a clue about development would even leap to such conclusions in the absence of evidence.

    13. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That may be because the engine that GTA4 uses was made for an earlier 360 game. This leads to another valid argument: The PS3 version is taking longer to develop because of difficulties in porting the engine. These difficulties would be the same if the engine had originated on the PS3 and needed to be ported to the 360, so it's not a problem with the PS3.

      That doesn't make any sense. How do you know that moving the engine from one platform to another is the same difficulty, regardless of which platform you're moving from/to?

    14. Re:Wake up for Sony Developer Support? by Pluvius · · Score: 1

      How do you know that moving the engine from one platform to another is the same difficulty, regardless of which platform you're moving from/to?

      The 360 and the PS3 have very different architectures. The idea that porting from one to the other would be difficult regardless of the direction should be obvious.

      Rob

  4. Bull by dunezone · · Score: 1

    If anything, the delay of GTA4 is for the best.

    This holiday market is already flooded with tons of new releases. Right now I have to make decisions on what games I want to buy. And with Guitar Hero 3 and Rock Band costing way above the average of a regular game it makes my choices harder and fewer.

    Most of the individuals I've talked to who own either a PS3 or 360 are relieved that GTA4 was delayed.

    1. Re:Bull by slacktheplanet · · Score: 0

      I have to agree with you on this.

      I have every next-gen system. Between Metroid Prime 3, Mass Effect, Halo 3, LAIR and Mario Galaxy.. It's going to be a very busy Fall/Winter.

    2. Re:Bull by giostickninja · · Score: 1

      I think most people here are discussing what the delay means to the industry, not to their own personal buying habits. No offense, but I could care less about whether you can afford all the games you want.

  5. I assume by Invictus42 · · Score: 0

    I assume I'm not the only one who only clicked on this article because it was posted by Zonk and had "Fallout" in the title...

  6. Personally, I'm happy it's delayed by Pojut · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What with all the crazy shit coming out in the next few months for the 360, PS3, and the Wii, the last thing that I needed was another game that would suck up 40-60 hours playtime...this at least gives me (and many others) a chance to play through all the stuff coming out by the end of the year.

    Take your time Rockstar. We will buy it regardless of when you release it.

    --
    Living With a Nerd
    1. Re:Personally, I'm happy it's delayed by Applekid · · Score: 1

      There are a lot of comments like parent but I chose this one because it sounds the most like a complaint of having too much stuff to play.

      "Release Date" doesn't mean a whole lot to me ever since I've been working full time. I don't think I'll ever understand the need, particularly in gaming, for a 0-day experience.

      I stay off the spoiler sites, stay away from FAQs, and even with stuff slipping through the cracks I can still thoroughly enjoy a game. I mean, just two weeks ago I bought Final Fantasy XII and I'm having a good time with it. Saved a bit of cash on it, too: picked up a copy for like $25 (presumably since there were so many damn copies pressed).

      Don't get me wrong. I can understand why cutting edge computing, cutting edge cars, cutting edge just about everything else is worth it and important to jump in early on if you're into that sort of thing because of how quickly they stop being cutting edge. But games? If 50 great games come out at the same time you pick your priorities and play the games in that order.

      Games are supposed to be fun, after all. Not something you have to rush through.

      --
      More Twoson than Cupertino
    2. Re:Personally, I'm happy it's delayed by Pojut · · Score: 1

      Im in the same situation as you...full time job, etc. My whole point is that I don't really have all that much time for the games that I want to actually play the entire way through...by spacing them out, it leaves less things on my "still need to play" list. Since I have become an adult, that list has grown from never having more than three to four titles at a time on it to being nearly a page long...and never getting shorter :-(

      --
      Living With a Nerd
    3. Re:Personally, I'm happy it's delayed by Nerdfest · · Score: 1

      The problem with buying the games long after release for me is mostly with the online play. If you pick up a game long after release, most people playing have had a good head start, and will generally trash you pretty badly, which takes a bit of the fun out of it. There are also generally fewer people playing, although this generally isn't as much of a problem. Neither of these things are very serious, but they do influence me on when I buy games ... I like to buy online oriented games earlier.

    4. Re:Personally, I'm happy it's delayed by Xtravar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think you're looking at this the wrong way. It's not the 0-day, cutting edge thing that attracts most people. It's more correlated to how much joy and excitement you derive from these games.

      I'm in the same boat as you with the whole waiting to play games... for most games. Same with most movies "I'll rent it when it's out on video."

      But let's say you're a huge Star Wars, Ghostbusters, and Transformers fan, and let's pretend all of those movies came out on the same weekend. Now, you've been anticipating these movies for years, you've been on the interwebs looking for information, you've been chatting about how great they're going to be... and now your total satisfaction of all 3 will be tied together and generally lower than if they'd been spread out.

      Not to mention, if you don't do X right away you miss the social tidal wave and have less to talk about (depending on your social situation). I can't watch Back to the Future and then start chatting to random strangers about details in it.

      I'll agree with you that cutting edge with a lot of things can be really stupid to outside observers, but I think it's a lot more complicated than you make it out to be. Typically, every person tends to do what's best for himself.

      --
      Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
    5. Re:Personally, I'm happy it's delayed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pre-order Warhawk now. Was in on the beta. It'll blow Halo 3 away. :)

  7. Thoughts about the delay? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

    My thoughts about the dealy, I am frikkin livid about it.
    I was jacking a car from some muppet this morning when he told me about the delay.
    I shot the fucker right there and then.

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  8. Holy biased! by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So some random analyst assumes the PS3 is the problem, and it ends up in the flamebait summary even though a VP at Rockstar says they haven't figured out how to deal with the lack of hard drive in the Xbox 360?

    Why doesn't the summary mention that Microsoft is considering allowing games which require the hard drive, possibly in response to these issues with GTA IV? Instead it just trash-talks the PS3. Lovely.

    1. Re:Holy biased! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Holy misinformation! That was one incredibly leading question. Rockstar was basically asked "is there a limit to storage space?" and the answer was, not surprisingly, yes. No one has yet to invent a device that can contain unlimited storage. (Gee, I wonder why?)

      They most certainly did NOT say that the limited space was limiting GTA4 in any way.

      Besides, Microsoft already allows games that require the hard drive. As Penny Arcade pointed out, there already is an MMORPG that requires the hard drive. (Just because it's not WoW doesn't mean it doesn't exist.) So it's not a new thing.

    2. Re:Holy biased! by Eric52902 · · Score: 1

      I love the 360, but I don't understand why Microsoft is so opposed to allowing such games. Are there really that many people buying Core systems? What's the point?

    3. Re:Holy biased! by ubernode · · Score: 1

      talk about flaimbait, why dont u RTFM again:

      The difficulties aren't limited to working on Microsoft's box, as Houser explains that "both have enormous challenges" and that "both have their own particular pleasures and pains".

  9. 100 Million by newgalactic · · Score: 5, Funny

    " ...That's not how we built 100 million sales of [the] PlayStation 2, and that's not how we'll build 100 million in sales of [the] PlayStation 3." If the PS3 hits 100 million in sales, I promise you Sony, I'll go out and buy two.

    1. Re:100 Million by rwa2 · · Score: 1

      Actually, it'd be interesting to see where current PS2 sales fall in with all of this. My understanding is that it's still selling pretty well, and already has a large library of top games that maximize its still respectable computing power.

      Hell, I just bought a used PS2 two weeks ago (my first console since my Famicom - the Japanese version of the original Nintendo). The complete setup was 1/10th the price of updating my PC gaming rig, and since I've virtually been living under a rock for the past few decades of console gaming I can enjoy several titles from the bargain bin. I paid a bit extra for the component cable so I can do 480p on games that support it... I guess the only thing I really miss is anti-aliasing.

      Anyway, I've been playing Burnout 3 (I'm from Thailand, so I'm pretty tickled by the reasonably authentic models of Bangkok and the beach towns), and am even considering getting a few more PS2s just to run an immersive multi-screen Gran Turismo 4 setup. Also hope to check out some of the unique titles like Colossus and that K.... Damacy ball-rolling game that I've read some interesting reviews on.

      So life's actually pretty good far behind the bleeding edge :P

  10. DIY posting by Control+Group · · Score: 1, Funny

    But we've never had a single game make or break any of our platforms. That's not how we built 100 million sales of [the] PlayStation 2...

    [
    [
    [
    [

    (The above space intentionally left blank: readers may insert their own jokes about PS2 failure rates)
    --

    Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
    1. Re:DIY posting by kasek · · Score: 1

      i bought my ps2 on launch day, and only replaced it last year because it was just too darned big - i wanted the smaller footprint of the new ps2.

      sorry, was i supposed to put this in the form of a joke somehow?

    2. Re:DIY posting by Damvan · · Score: 1

      Great, another "Mine works fine, therefore they all work fine" posts.

      You know, my car has never broken down. So why the hell are there so many mechanics? If my car hasn't needed repair, no other cars have needed repair either. How do those guys make a living?

    3. Re:DIY posting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah ... I mean just because I've had to replace MY XBox360 3 times, doesn't mean they all do. ... Just a ridiculously unfair percentage.

      If any other home electronic device had the failure rate of the XBox 360, the manufacturer would be fined into bankruptcy.

  11. Not so sure about the single game remark... by bomanbot · · Score: 1

    I think Sony is wrong with the "no single game makes or breaks our platform" remark. I knew quite a few people who bought a PS2 specifically for GTA 3 and I think there are a lot of people who are specifically waiting for Metal Gear Solid 4.

    And it would not be uncommen: I mean how many people bought an Xbox specifically for Halo?

    1. Re:Not so sure about the single game remark... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought a PS2 specifically for FFX, myself. And if FF13 is exclusive, I'll buy a PS3 for that even though I already have a 360. (Luckily by the time that rolls around I bet the PS3 will have dropped in price again).

      Single games can definitely move systems. Im sure Halo3 will move plenty of 360's, and Im sure GTA4 will move plenty of 360s and PS3s.

    2. Re:Not so sure about the single game remark... by WeAzElMaN · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. The only reason I'd even consider buying a PS3 is for MGS4. But, considering the (still) outrageous prices of the different PS3 versions, I'd rather spend my hard-earned cash on a 360 (for the record, the last gaming system I bought besides my computer was a PS2). Considering the the 360 is going to be getting both Halo 3 AND GTAIV (and I think we can also assume it will get some iteration of MGS4 eventually, just like Substance and Subsistence before it) it just makes more sense to splurge on that instead of a PS3.

      And, as far as the story goes, I for one am glad that Rockstar has the guts to say they need more time to make the game perfect. That's the way it should be. As the original poster of the story, I just thought the possible business ramifications were interesting.

    3. Re:Not so sure about the single game remark... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bought the PS2 just to play Shadow of the Colossus. And as it turned out, Ico. Unfortunately nothing else comes close.

    4. Re:Not so sure about the single game remark... by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      Halo made the Xbox succeed, almost no doubt about it. Presumably PGR helped, but at the end of the day, I'm not convinced it would have been pretty had Halo not been bought over to Xbox from PC (from Mac).

      To suggest that the PS2 would have struggled without GTA3, is just stupid. There are a dozen headline titles that are used in the "I bought a PS2 purely to play [game]" sentence.

      Besides, your own comment supports the opposite of your point. You named _two_ games that the console is specifically purchased for. You're already moving away from the 'no single game' argument the sentence after you disagree with the point. Sigh.

      Any reply to the effect of 'well name them then' just supports my suspicion that you have no idea what youre talking about and are basing your comments on your experiences with your three of four console owning schoolfriends.

    5. Re:Not so sure about the single game remark... by BlastOff · · Score: 1

      Of course the single game remark is ridiculous. I bought the Xbox because my PC at the time couldn't run Morrowind. I bought the PS2 for Gran Turismo and GTA 3. Hell, the biggest reason to buy the PS1 for me was FF7. There were billboards all over L.A. with still shots from the cinematics in FF& and I didn't care how the game was or what the system was I just knew I had to play it.

    6. Re:Not so sure about the single game remark... by Laurence0 · · Score: 1

      But why? Why would you do that? Especially for the two past examples you gave... Both GTA3 and Halo were released for the PC - and the GTA series (can't speak for Halo - no played it on an XBox, but it's FPS, so the same probably applies) was far better (graphics, control system, existance of mods) on the PC. Vice City on the PC, for example, looked far better than San Andreas did on the PS2.

    7. Re:Not so sure about the single game remark... by bomanbot · · Score: 1

      Okay, maybe my point did not come across well. Of course the Playstation has a lot of "system seller" games and would have probably done fine without GTA 3. But GTA 3 was unprecedented in the freedom it gave you in a 3D-World and was at the time a PS2 exclusive, as the PC and Xbox versions came much later, so it was a very compelling reason to buy a PS2 and so it was a critical title to give Sony the lead in last generations console race. And all the even more popular successors in the franchise (Vice City, San Andreas) came first on the PS2, which was a huge boon to Sony, so that the simultaneous release of GTA 4 on PS3 and Xbox 360 now is a big blow to them.

      Maybe a better example would have been Metal Gear Solid 2. At the time the hype around MGS 2 began, the PS2 was the only platform the game would be on, as Konami did not make PC versions at that time and the XBox was not even a rumour. So MGS2 was a huge part in the inital success of the PS2.

      Look, the only point I tried to make was that the Sony guy was wrong to say that there was never a time when a single game would be critical to the success of the Playstation.

      Oh, and the "two games" argument? You realize that the second game I mentioned, Metal Gear Solid 4 is made for the Playstation 3, which, you know is a different console than the Playstation 2? And I would think that people are waiting specifically for Metal Gear Solid 4 on the PS3 because at the moment it is one of the few (if not the only) remaining high-profile exclusives for the PS3. And without compelling exclusive titles, why should people prefer an PS3 over an Xbox 360?

    8. Re:Not so sure about the single game remark... by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      "Look, the only point I tried to make was that the Sony guy was wrong to say that there was never a time when a single game would be critical to the success of the Playstation."

      And what I'm telling you is that you are wrong. With regards to prior consoles, it's absolutely correct to suggest that The Playstation 1 and Playstation 2 never had a single game that was critical to their success. There simply wasn't. I'll admit that at launch it appeared as though this would be the case for Playstation3 though, although having said that I'm not even sure which game would have been the one that ensured the success of the console as nearly all of the launch titles sucked. Then again, they did for the Xbox360 as well, and now there are at least half a dozen must own titles.

      Just because GTA3 was a popular game doesn't mean that the PS2 would have gone any worse had it not been a PS2 exclusive. It would have benefited the Xbox1 had it been a multiformat release, but the PS1 and PS2 have both had at least a dozen games that have been real system sellers, so that taking away any specific one would not have impacted greatly on sales.

      Besides, logic would dictate that if you take away a single game exclusivity among a dozen titles, it's not affecting sales noticably as people are going to say, for example, "Well I can get GTA3 on PS2 and Xbox1, but I'll have to stick with the PS2 so I can play Final Fantasy X and Metal Gear Solid 2. One PS2, please."

      Also, just so you're aware, whether or not you actually like those games isn't related to this fact. I hate most of the PS2 system sellers (FFX, MGS2, GT3 for three quick examples of games I don't like) but it doesn't mean that I don't recognize them as big name games that will make purchase decisions for people.

      Close to the only successful console in recorded history that lived or died by the success of a single game would have to be the Xbox1. Anyone that can't see that it would have really struggled had it not been for Halo is kidding themselves. Microsoft surely dodged a bullet with picking up the publishing and exclusivity rights to that title.

      Oh, and I think the Jaguar sold the exact same number of copies as were sold of AvP. Also see : 3DO/Need for Speed. Although I did say 'successful' consoles.

      Yeah, and my bad on the MGS2/4 mistake. I think your point was so obviously lacking in gaming history/knowledge that missed that.

  12. All this so that GTA V: Emerald City is a hit by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    It's pretty sad, since they've yanked off a lot of the people to start work on Grand Theft Auto: Emerald City.

    Especially since this Seattle based version, with a fictional Grey's Anatomy "Seattle Grace" hospital where KOMO TV is next to the Space Tower (Space Needle), doesn't even have the Fremont Troll, although it does have an Art Car where the Fremont Troll should be.

    Personally, I'd love to play it, but it sounds like I'll have to wait for the Mac version, cause it requires Windows Vista, that or wait for the Wii version.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:All this so that GTA V: Emerald City is a hit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what in god's name are you talking about?

  13. Re:Holy biased! or is it? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1, Informative

    So some random analyst assumes the PS3 is the problem

    Actually, it's all over the media. G4 TV has been quite frank in how the PS3 delays are way longer for virtually all announced games, although they say some of that is just due to marketroids overpromising game ship dates.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  14. Holy Biased yourself by AdmiralWeirdbeard · · Score: 0

    On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?" To which he replied, "Yep." He continued, "To be honest with you we haven't solved all those riddles yet." The difficulties aren't limited to working on Microsoft's box, as Houser explains that "both have enormous challenges"

    I fail to see how a comment on a 3+ month old dev problem is relevant to this discussion.

    I fail to see how you can rant about bias in the story and not mention that the second half of the article you cite says that such problems are not limited to the 360.

    I guess its just super insightful to whine about bias by misrepresenting cited sources in a biased way.

    *highfive*

    --
    Come read my stupid blagablog. Rants and Giggles
    1. Re:Holy Biased yourself by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      I fail to see where I said the problems were limited to the 360. I also fail to see where I said the summary shouldn't have said anything negative about the PS3. I merely said it should tell the whole story if it's going to tell half the story.

      You see what you wanted to see though apparently.

    2. Re:Holy Biased yourself by AdmiralWeirdbeard · · Score: 0

      So some random analyst assumes the PS3 is the problem, and it ends up in the flamebait summary even though a VP at Rockstar says they haven't figured out how to deal with the lack of hard drive in the Xbox 360

      Well, you discount the authority of one person quoted from TFA ('random analyst') while ignoring the rebuttal quote also from TFA that was included in the 'flamebait' summary (Sony), so right off that bat, I'm a little skeptical of your dedication to evenhandedness. Though you are techinally correct, you did not specifically say that the problems were limited to the 360, your statment did take the form of 'why does it say A is the problem when involved party X says Y is the problem?' Problems with the 360 were cited in rebuttal of discounted claims that the problems were with the 360. So no, you didnt say that problems were limited to the 360, you just said that claims that there were problems with the PS3 were silly and that claims there were problems with the 360 werent. But go ahead and play the "i never specificaly said blah" game. Its fun. But then you cant claim to have been advocating an even treatment of the topic, for you never specifically said that the whole story should be told. Just that two anti-360 stories should be told.

      I saw what you wrote, you just think that you said something different than what you wrote apparently.
      --
      Come read my stupid blagablog. Rants and Giggles
  15. Katamari anyone? by Detaer · · Score: 1

    I purchased the PS2 a little over a year ago just for katamari 1 and 2. Once I played through these games my ps2 went into a box in my closet. The only other game I would have had any interest in playing on my ps2 was guitar hero2 I purchased that one for the 360, and have since downloaded 1 of the song packs. Soon enough the new Katamari game will be released on the 360 and possibly the wii / ps3. I plan on buying the wii when I can walk in and find it on the shelves at the stores, I have no plans as of yet to purchase a ps3, HDdvd or blue ray player. It seems like katamari being a multi system release was based on ps3s horrible market penetration, and that is just fine with me. GTA was never a selling point game for me, my attention span for this type of game is so short that playing it at a friend's place once every 3 or so months fills out my GTA quota. If a new game were released by rockstar ala original GTA overhead play style (I love me some platformers) I might consider buying it. As of right now rockstar doesn't make a game I would go out of my way to get a hold of, and I doubt they ever will.

  16. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  17. GTA Online is "A.P.B." (maybe) by PhoenixOne · · Score: 1

    The same people who gave you "Crackdown" for the XBox360 (Realtime Worlds) are working on a MMO called (last time I checked) APB.

    --
    Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
  18. Denial? by sm284614 · · Score: 1

    "But we've never had a single game make or break any of our platforms. That's not how we built 100 million sales of [the] PlayStation 2" GTA3 was the saviour of the PS2, anyone with hardware sales figures and calander can show you that.

  19. Re:GTA Online by British · · Score: 1

    It exists in unoffical forms, called GTA:MP. It is HORRIBLY buggy. The "los santos role play" is amazingly boring and takes the fun out of GTA with speeding tickets, red tape, etc.

  20. Re:GTA Online by Khakionion · · Score: 1

    FFXI is available for 360 and PS2.

    --
    OMG! Wau!
  21. Three Points by LKM · · Score: 1

    Three things:

    1. Obviously, this helps Nintendo the most, as there's no GTA for the Wii.
    2. Microsoft should care about GTA since, even though it's a multiplatform title, the downloadable content will be Xbox exclusive, and thus GTA should help Xbox sales more than it should help PS3 sales.
    3. Sony also has a bunch of good games coming out for the PS3 before the end of the year.
  22. 100 million sales, are they for real ? by gonzoxl5 · · Score: 1

    The only way they'll make 100 million sales of the PS3 is if they give it away....

  23. Fallout by mcvos · · Score: 1

    I assume I'm not the only one who only clicked on this article because it was posted by Zonk and had "Fallout" in the title...

    Yeah, it would be nice if people stopped titling articles with "Fallout" if they weren't actually about Fallout.

  24. Lot's of effort by Floritard · · Score: 1

    But we've never had a single game make or break any of our platforms. No sir, to successfully break a platform takes a concerted effort involving acute arrogance from each and ever one of our divisions combining unwarranted proprietary format rollout, overly expensive product pricing, and the destruction of customer trust through a history of anti-consumer attitudes and unscrupulous use of the latest in invasive DRM technologies. Look, we know what we're doing here. Oh I kid Sony. I kid.
  25. Re:GTA Online by powerlord · · Score: 1

    Well ... FinalFantasy XI was released on the PS2, and then ported to the XBox360.

    The people who brought you Crackdown are working on a MMORPG for the XBox 360.

    Sony also announced a whole bunch as being "in development", ("Endless Saga" from Webzen, an untitled MMORPG from Square Enix (rumored to be a new version of FFXI), a DC Comics based MMORPG (hopefully targeting PCs and PS3s), "The World" (from Namco/Bandai based on .Hack)). The only MMORPG that we've seen anything about though has been "The Agency". Which looks like an MMORPG, in a spy world.

    --
    This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
  26. Re:GTA Online by rwa2 · · Score: 1

    Well, there's the Multi Theft Auto mod:
    http://mtavc.com/

    Haven't tried it, though. All my friends are too busy leveling up in WoW and EVE to engage in any simple human skill-based game.