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Microsoft and Novell Open Interoperability Lab
An anonymous reader writes to mention that the Microsoft and Novell Interoperability Lab in Cambridge, Massachusetts opened today. The lab is supposed to allow both Novell and Microsoft developers to work together for better interoperability between SUSE and Windows Server. "Located in Cambridge, the 2,500-square-foot lab and workspace will be home to a combined team of the best and brightest Microsoft and Novell engineers focused on making Windows Server and SUSE Linux Enterprise work better together. The first priority for the lab team will be to ensure interoperability between Microsoft and Novell virtualization technologies. Additional work will include standards-based systems management, identity federation and compatibility of office document formats."
I predict that this will get tagged as "itsatrap"--Microsoft has a history of joining efforts only to undermine them later. (E.g. "embrace, extend, extinguish")
Having said that, Microsoft, like many gigantic corporations, has several "personalities" in the sense that different divisions may be operating on different guiding principles that don't necessarily mesh with each other. In this case, for instance, I'm willing to believe that the MS engineers joining this interoperability effort will genuinely do good work towards making MS products work with Linux in a smart and efficient way. So, I can see a lot of good coming out of this.
Yes, we should be wary of any attempt by MS higher-ups to subvert this process and use it to break interoperability (or to make Linux look "unfit for business" or whatever)... but to some extent I'm willing to give MS another chance here.
Now you can autospace like in Word5 or do pagebreak Wordstar style! OOXML coming to Linux!!
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Tale as old as time True as it can be Barely even friends Then somebody bends Unexpectedly Just a little change Small to say the least Both a little scared Neither one prepared Beauty and the Beast...
Novell showed up in timely fashion but the Microsoft Engineers were mysteriously left locked out outside the building after failing to realize that the staff fridge door needed to be opened and the microwave oven set to 3:50 cook time before there card lock would work...
I suspect that this is little more than a veiled attempt to scream "We're working on interoperability - now government, leave us the hell alone!"
An obvious benchmark to track is the number of changes going into the Windows Server product for compatibility vs. those going into Suse Linux.
If Suse has to make all the running it will be pretty obvious who is wearing the trousers (as we say).
/* So we can get crap MS proprietary code and corrupted standards in Linux now too, huh. */
I thought that was what Wine was for?
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
We see a lot of problems here but not what you're describing. Interoperability doesn't mean putting proprietary code in Linux, but maybe variations on standards. Hasn't the Samba project been tweaking standards for years to interoperate with Windows for years, and it's still open source which is a real-world example that disproves your automatic assumption. The part about the folks in Redmond having a problem with your decisions about what OS you use .... doesn't make sense. You should clarify.
Microsoft has been trying to create a secure OS for over a decade. They have also been trying to dominate the desktop market at every opportunity. They have not done either very well. It arguable that they dominate, but that was not done in a lab, it was done in a marketing team meeting room.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
how tomorrow's lawsuits start?
Hope is the currency of fools
It's about time for Microsoft to properly implement IMAP, LDAP and CalDAV in Exchance. I can't wait.
http://www.mhall119.com
Phase one - embrace.
Phase two - extend.
Phase three - extinguish.
Been good knowing you, Novell.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Microsoft will abandon their OS in it's current form after two more releases. Vista 20?? and Vista 202?
Then it will be MS-UNIX under the hood.
Otherwise the rest of the world is going to be on the metric system while we're still on the imperial system of Lord Gates.
Apple did it. MS will too eventually and I'll have my flying car!
Woah, looking like that time that IBM and Microsoft put together a team of the best and brightest to develop the next generation of operating systems: OS/2. They got all the way to when MS released Windows 3.0, with an API that didn't match with OS/2, and then IBM was maintaining the OS/2 2.x system while Microsoft was developing NT OS/2 3.0. Then Microsoft took all of that collaborative work, and made off with it, calling it simply Windows NT.
Looks like the ideal job for Miguel ;-)
I love the monthly new-years-resolutions to work harder at/invest more in interoperability.
It's actually not that difficult. Have most of your apps spit out strings of text in some documentable (or, ideally, document*ed) format and basically voila!
What's difficult is having interoperability without actually having it. In fact, I suspect they could research that until doomsday.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Having this on one's Resume is going to be a red flag. I for one will be shooting down anyone with this on their Resume. It's right up there with having semi-recent SCO experience on your Resume IMO.
Good luck to the "top" engineers who end up working there. You are a pariah, possibly to both camps.
Here's hoping they will come up with an extremely simplified AD plug-in of some sort. Yes, I know linux geeks, you can currently integrate with active directory, but it's nowhere near as simple as it should be. You can sit there and complain that it's MS's fault, but at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, and the powers that be don't really care. So, here's hoping for something good coming out of this.
Ok, samba is a bad example since it's whole purpose for existence is TO network with windows machines, as most other operating systems support unix style networking. And as far as my os of choice, you really mean to tell me that ms doesn't try to force people on to windows? If that's the case, what cave have you been living in for the past decade? Maybe if ms really wants to promote interoperability, they should start adopting some open standards in windows instead of trying to force the community to hack around their ridiculously insecure, and just plain lousy, setup.
How many people & how much equipment are stuck in a 50' x 50' room? By comparison, the standard North American semi trailer (trailer only, not the cab) is 53 ft. 2500 ft^2 sounds large at first until you really think about it...
Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
Cause if it is, they're in for a world of hurt.
If Nalgene water bottles are outlawed, only outlaws will have Nalgene water bottles.
...or they could just both make sure that their products implement and adhere to standards correctly.
Though given the recent OOXML ISO happenings, maybe more companies will need these labs to make their products work together...
Best? Brightest? Microsoft??
10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
20 DRINK COFFEE
30 GOTO 10
you know it won't support other distros. there will be "technical roadblocks".
meet the new novell, same as the old novell. deaf, dumb and blind.
and owned by microsoft
WINE actually provide a useful service that helps third party applications that were originally only developed for Windows to migrate to Linux. The project that does what you warn about is Mono, which encourages Linux developers to adopt proprietary Sue You Later frameworks without thinking about it. And Mono, co-incidentally enough, is the one with the close, close ties to Novell. I wouldn't touch SuSE with a 50m CAT5e cable, right now.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Fookin' brilliant!
More than 60,000 Windows programs won't run on Linux.
``The first priority for the lab team will be to ensure interoperability between Microsoft and Novell virtualization technologies.''
That is definitely not the place I would start. First of all, I hardly think interoperability in virtualization is the most important, and secondly, as far as I know, we already _have_ interoperable virtualization.
Instead of virtualization, I would start with file formats and move to protocols from there.
Of course, neither of these would be issues if there were standards and both parties adhered to them.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Like everybody outside of the US I can't think in feet, so here is a conversion to standard units: 232 m or a ~15m x 15m room. Calling a small backyard office like that an "interoperability lab" is an euphemism.
Want to hear the voice of GOD? cat
Linux can't even change (very well, yes I know there is ntfs3g) files with windows NT FileSystem. Those guys should care about those kind of things instead of virtualization IMHO :-P
I just hope all the Novel people behind all these moves are willing to be held responsible in some non-abstract form if all this dealings with Microsoft goes south. I can't think of any way that these deals would not benefit Microsoft, however I can think of how things can go wrong enough that it affects me way over here in Fedora. So I just hope that Mr. Miguel de Icaza and company will hold themselves accountable.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
that way, the Novell engineers can play backgammon all day with the Sun engineers since they've been busy doing little for so long already. I'd mention the Microsoft engineers but Microsoft probably doesn't send any and just hires people off the street corners, tags-em with Microsoft badges and then tells them to talk about the weather when asked a question, any question. They wouldn't know how to play backgammon or even learn it. The Sun people are most likely starving for new players.
But really, are these people really thinking anything enabling Linux to compete with Windows is going to come of this? WTF are they smoking and how long have they had their heads in the sand and/or clouds? When was the last time that has happened.
I guess there is SOMETHING different in the 'kill Linux' plans at Microsoft now. That's the embedding of Microsoft IP into OSS. So, as unusual as it is and yes, snowballs show up on Lucifer doorstep, there might actually be some little tidbits that comes out of this. Those will still likely be poison but something just might pop out of this shit hole called the Microsoft and Novell Interoperability Lab. But I wouldn't touch it. IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
The advantage to a lot of this is that its open source. If Novell was to be killed off as a result, we still have the code to go through choosing the pieces we want.
So if some is tainted, then through it away. People act like they don't care, but seem to. I guess in a way, who cares if Novell dies, we have their code, right? But at the same time, who is going to pick up all of the coding that will stop if they disappear?
Although, I am one of those that hopes, ad mist the flaws/bad choices, that they continue to produce some good things. XEN for example.
Any changes Novell makes to the Linux kernel or supporting OS code (and apps), all distributed under GPL, will be available for any other developer to use under GPL, as per the GPL.
Novell's Linux products might eventually become traps for Microsoft lockin, but the code itself need not be if included in other distros. That would be up to the other distro.
--
make install -not war
... after hearing of Microsoft's former partnership nightmares?
Is Novell a Judas or just another plain old sucker?
Nobody said Microsoft doesn't try to force Windows so there's no need to go looking in caves :). Yes companies do tend to force their products because that's kind of how they make money. You probably won't see a company promoting somebody else's product in spite of its own. Look at any company and its product. A company will tend to sell its product whether your personally like it or not. You're basically describing business as usual and trying to spin something or start an argument ... still very confusing, your point.
I've started getting OOXML documents from my colleagues, and I'm loathe to shell out for Office 2007 or fiddle with the converter plugin for earlier versions of MS Office (which I still occassionally have to run in a VMware Windows instance due to crazy formatting or macros). I switched to Linux right around the time of the Windows ME debacle, and I have no intention of switching back. I have used OpenOffice successfully since then, and for the most part it's been fine. Now I'm faced with having to bring up VMware every time someone sends me an OOXML document. Is there any hope for us OOo users? Last I heard, an OOXML converter is months away -- and it's entirely likely the first few releases will be barely usable.
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Interoperability Lab -- Security Warning
The publisher could not be verified. Are you sure you want to try to interoperate with this company?
Name: Microsoft
Publisher: Unknown Publisher
Type: convicted monopolist
From: Redmond, WA
(( Run )) ( Cancel )
[x] Always ask before selling out to this company
Remember MS stole AD from Novell and destroyed WordPerfect with nasty marketing lies. Novell knows MS can not be trusted in any way.
SUSE has only made Novell stronger. MS can never open up their huge bundled DOS or pay their taxes. If MS sent 4 engineers, then they're going to have to hire because that over half of their staff. Remember Ballmer told the EU that MS only has 500 employees and almost all of them are salesmen or attorneys.
Novell knows exactly what is going on and like most collaborations with MS today, they will take what they can get and give nothing. Can you really fit 16 engineers in cubicals and the racks in a quarter of a 7-11? Sounds like Intel Research Centers, only larger with more engineers. Someone has to answer the phone. With that number of servers, we're talking a ton of blade centers.
If it's a trap, knowing MS, it's a fire death trap to kill of a couple Novell engineers without have to pay for anti-freeze.
Many are criticising Novell. On the other hand they are brave enough to walk a important tight rope and take the flack.
Darth Gates: Novell must not become the major Linux distributor.
Darth Ballmer: If it could be turned to the Dark Side of the Patent...
Darth Gates: Yes, Novell would make a powerful ally. Can it be done?
Darth Ballmer: Novell will turn, or it will be destroyed.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Is Novell a Judas or just another plain old sucker?
Probably just in financial dire straights and taking the short-term cash injection from Microsoft to put off its inevitable demise.
Stick Men
This must mean that they're mixing SUSE with MS Patents again, which means more vendor lock-in for Novell customers...
I don't think there is any reasonable explanation, why MS is creating vendor lock-ins for Novell customers, except that they plan to buy Novell some day... (remember: Steve Ballmer saied they had found THE strategy against linux, "the enemy" - and only 7 month later, after "several months of negotiations" they made the deal with Novell.... there HAS to be something wrong about that....)
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
Above comment should be modded insightful instead of funny ...
The last time Microsoft worked got get interoperability with Novell products was in reality just so that people could easier upgrade from netware to windows nt. :D
The sad fact is for Linux to really get into more data centers and eventually corporate desktops they are going to have more interoperability with Microsoft. Microsoft is dominate in more data centers than it is not and most companies I have worked with will only allow Linux to be used in "large system applications" like Oracle and such.
The main concern is with security ( I know it sounds laughable). Not with Windows or Linux but with the current solutions for interoperability like Samba, AD technology, etc. A lot of companies will not allow those technologies in their data centers due to security policies.
Microsoft Server 2003+ is not near the security issue it was in previous versions and Linux is "known" for being more secure, but the link between them is not at this time.
Personally any system is only as secure as the people who set it up. I have done pen testing on most of the major systems and find that you can set both up to be almost just as secure as the other and the opposite is true as well. Most people here hear Windows and assume it is just as bad as it once was and has not done the research to have any true understanding and only go with the crowd. I personally prefer Linux, but have no problems with Windows other than I hate monopolies.
All I want is for my Linux servers to work right away on the latest Windows 2008 AD from day 1. I want to be able to give users one account that works for their workstation authentication, resourse permissions like printer and file server access on both Windows and Linux computers, DBs be it SQL 2005 or MySQL 5, and Linux be it SSH, VNC, or the console itself. How about being able to create OUs and apply group policies to linux machines that hand things like SELinux settings, Samaba shares, printers, file permisions, services and whatnot. Now that is where they should be working. That is where all of the energy should be put, when that is working call me, until then I will be piecing shit together for sudo AD integration, using samba, winbind and hacking PAM on my RHEL box. Well while they piss their time away on crappy virtualization BS, /.ers know VMWare has over a 2 year lead, and has never failed to innovate time and time again, it has things like VMotion years ahead of MS and it supports the widest range of guest OSes.
- Eric
Respect the Constitution
... Can be more than (basicly) just a file server. Over the past 3 years I've had to move a dozen customers from perfectly good, high up-time Linux servers to crap Windows 2003 servers because the applications that they relied upon moved to a database running MS SQL runtime on the server. This may, of course, backfire on the developers of those applications once MS decides to charge them a per-user fee that would greatly increase the costs of their products. Meanwhile, this simple maneuver has eliminated the possibility for many small businesses to use Linux file servers and save a crapload of money.
Instead of virtualization I would like to see them concentrate on letting Samba be a primary domain server or making MS SQL interoperate with MYSQL or PostGresSQL.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!