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MS Awarded "Best Campaigner Against OOXML"
HansF writes "Microsoft itself is the surprise winner of the FFII's Kayak Prize 2007, offered by the FFII in its call for rejection of Microsoft's OOXML standards proposal. The software monopolist is honored as 'Best Campaigner against OOXML Standardization.' FFII president Pieter Hintjens explains, 'We could never have done this by ourselves. By pushing so hard to get OOXML endorsed, even to the point of loading the standards boards in Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Portugal, Italy, and beyond, Microsoft showed to the world how poor their format is. Good standards just don't need that kind of pressure. All together, countries made over ten thousands technical comments, a new world record for an ISO vote. Microsoft made a heroic — and costly — effort to discredit their own proposal, and we're sincerely grateful to them.'" If Microsoft doesn't send a representative to claim their 2500-Euro prize at the FFII General Assembly in November, FFII will give the money to Peruvian earthquake relief.
In addition, MS has helped IT security improve more than any other company.
Gifts for Geeks - Stuff that really matters!
They nearly won, and it isn't over yet - there is another vote coming up in Februrary.
My rights don't need management.
I wonder how many of those comments are duplicates. Oh well, as long as they're technical comments upon which constructive changes can be made then they are a good thing. It's a learning process.
...but this is not enough! Please MS step it up!
that kind of humor makes one go jump with joy for having chosen IT field to work in
Read radical news here
I've already started seeing .docx format attachments in my email at the office. Never mind the fact that my office is nearly 100% Linux/FOSS (except for the sole Windows machine running proprietary apps requiring outdated API's); I'd figured that since the vast majority of companies I've seen haven't (yet) started to migrate to Office 2007 then maybe sending .docx fils to everyone might not be such a smart move. For now we simply kick these emails back along with a friendly reminder that we don't do .docx or OOXML here, and will never accept anyhting in that format.
Microsoft says the 'O' in 'OOXML' stands for "open". My ass...
This space for rent!
Maybe if they keep up the work they've been doing lately, they might just win a Darwin award.
the foot should have been on top of gate's head...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
If I see an armed mugger robbing two women, and then run away screaming, and the robber looks at me for a second, giving one of the women enough time to open a can of woop-ass, that doesn't make me a hero.
Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
Who would've known the true evil potential of distributed malware networks without Microsoft?
Or why simplicity is such an important element of security (vs. 8,000 different file security attributes and complex kludg^W special case interactions)?
Or how bad an idea it is to put things on the network that were never designed to be there?
This belongs to the site formerly known as thedailywtf...
Their message is "I am cool. I use the newest stuff. My dick is bigger than yours".
If OOXML finally dies, shall we give Microsoft a Darwin Award? Or perhaps a Richard Dawkins Award since it's a dying meme?
- Otaku no naka no otaku, otaking da!!!
Don't send the money to MS!!! Send it to me - I trolled bravely and gratuitously against/for whatever the thing is, and I've already send my money to Peru. Email me here to get contact info:
ac@slashdot.org
What prevents them from modifying odf to whatever they want in the future anyway? They may have given up OOXML, but that doesn't mean they don't have enough power to make odf proprietary either.
I just got off the phone with Mr Bill. He said I am supposed to accept the award for Microsoft. The only problem is that I am busy on the night it would be awarded. I could make a teleconference appearance but sadly would need assistance in getting the money back to Microsoft. If it is wired to me, I couldn't get through customs and we all saw that movie with tom hanks who had to live in an airport.
If anyone with a valid checking account could help with this, I am willing to give them a small convenience fee of 10% plus any expenses. Please down load my personal instant messaging program and shoot me a message. If you have difficulty installing it, you can email me directly at 419 at nigeria.embasy Notice I used the "at" instead of the "@" sign in the email address to avoid spammers and scammers.
Thank you in advance to anyone able to help.
I don't think the ISO organization will allow M$ to damage their reputation that way. The OOXML vote is an international scandal and the people who count are not going to forget it. The whole business has already been damaging to ISO and they would do better to bury ooxml.
Just the same, I don't feel smug about how easily they damaged ISO. When I want to feel smug, I contemplate Vista's failure and what that means for the whole next generation of M$ crap and lock in.
Vista is one of the best things that ever happened to free software. It's later, more restrictive more expensive and less functional than anyone could possibly have imagined. There is zero enthusiasm for it and a plenty of rejection.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Is this the Japanese numbering of Final Fantasy II, or the USA releases?
[
I'm imagining a hailstorm of flying chairs in an office somewhere.
Ah, each time I see a link to that post, I regret to have started it by "Well, they clearly are"... such is life...
/. meme ?
Thx man. Will twitter==erris be the next
Hey, microsoft... if you don't want to pick up your prize, because you are too embarrassed, i can do so for you.
Help Me! I'm trapped in the tubes! Oh noes! Here comes a internet!
Yay somebody finally found out where AC lives and is going to sort out the problem of trolls and frist posters once and for all!
I hate printers.
"YEE-HAW!!! Let's go buy us some votes!!!" by The Redmond Cowboys
The problem is that this doesn't change much.
They're still going to deploy it as the default document format for the new Offices. Lots of small and large companies are still going to upgrade their software at some point. OOXML is still very likely to become the new de facto standard due to common usage.
What a depressingly stupid machine.
Congratulations on managing to post AC without power.
You need a bit of a rewrite on that troll and then you can give it another try. We'll still be here, promise.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
For all the noise they made it was the FFII who publically put money on the table, in the form of this award, with the goal of recruiting people to subvert the standards process. It is good to see that they have seen sense and chosen this route of getting out of their fix, good to see a little humer from them as well.
>> They're still going to deploy it as the default document format
No, they're not. There will be a fork between MS-OOXML and ECMA-OOXML, since ECMA has to address the technical comments from the ISO national standards bodies if they are to have any hope of ISO certification. Brian Jones of Microsoft has stated that MS will not guarantee support of ECMA-OOXML, but the Microsoft variant only. As the only complete implementer of the proposed standard (the documentation has been shown to be unusable to achieve non-Microsoft implementation), MS is essentially saying that the ISO certification is merely a marketing tool to avoid being shut out of government contracts. They will not commit to actual support of ECMA-OOXML if and when it becomes an ISO standard.
The cynicism is appalling.
Maybe they'll introduce that award/competition one year. Maybe they'll release a "Microsoft Decathlon" special edition as well.
Let's face it, folks. MS had the OS market in a stranglehold. They could've gotten away with pretty much anything. Bundling with hardware? No problem at all. Actually made the Average Joe user happy. Crappy bundled software like players and browsers? Zero problem either. Who doesn't know that there's better alternatives is happy with what he got. Mandatory registration? Already a bit of a nuisance to the average user (especially if he doesn't have internet access), but still bearable. Anyone will make a single phone call to use his computer.
But then they stepped across the line where the average user grins and bears it. After a major repair, another call. After a few more, the spanish inquisition starts. People start to get nervous. They didn't do anything wrong, yet they feel as suspects for copying software. Software they bought honestly. People also care whether they can do what they used to do. Now DRM is hanging over their heads, and they start looking at their friends who use Linux, who don't have to call, who don't have to register, who get tons of software for free and legally so, and with the various installers the distributions have, it's also only a mouseclick away.
People start to look around for alternatives. Being the moderator of a "non-geek tech board", I got a pretty good idea what bugs the "Average Joe" users and what direction they take. For about a year now, we have had a vastly increasing number in postings containing questions about Linux, which distribution to take, how to install it and how to get it going, quickly followed by quite happy notes how easy it was.
I've been trying to talk them into it for a few years now. Until recently the response was mostly "What for?". Now there's a reason. So if anyone helped Linux become more of a mainstream system, it's MS.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The installed base of older Office versions is so gigantic, that the new docx format is being refused. People will return mails with docx attachments saying "I can't read this, just send it as .doc will you!".
:-)
This forces the Office2007 users to learn how to "Save As".
I predict the "doc" format will stay with us for a very long time, and that as governments start using odt, the docx format will slowly fade away.
Bart
Hope my Cassandra skills are up to it today
spoony bard.
I know, sorry...
OOXML is just to confuse with Open Office XML. People known that Open Office is the free suite, so they assume that OO stands for OpenOffice XML format. Wise move, that shows how cunny this pricks are.
Now they're going to have to go and claim it.
"we've got trenchcoats and bad attitudes" - John Constantine, HellBlazer
by turning up to collect the prize, then donating it to charity for themselves?
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
Here is the correct link to the free ODF import/export plugin. The one at sourceforge is the one sponsored by MS and has only recently started work. The Sun plugin has been ready for a while now.
They jury is still out as to whether MS will fund the sourceforge project to completion or even allow it to be completed. Seeing as MSOOXML can't be implemented without full details of some undocumented, proprietary, legacy specifications, full implementation is contingent on a lot of help and heretofore unavailable information from MS.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
I think your fear of calling MS is unfounded. The phone people are tools and getting your registration updated is as simple as saying 'This is the only hardware this OS is installed on.' when they ask.
That may be OK for a retail boxed version that comes with an install disk. This isn't OK for the OEM factory installed system. Just try to use a Dell recovery DVD on a homebuilt box. The EULA forbids the OS transfer and the recovery DVD program won't recover to another machine. With that in mind, the WGA hasn't actualy been tested. I just figured it was registered with a genuine Dell model XXXXXX and anything else is "Not Genuine".
Therefore I didn't even try when I built a Core 2 Duo box to play with. I just stuck Feisty on it and enjoyed it.
The truth shall set you free!
Ah, so you aren't mad at MS, you're mad at Dell/Gateway/etc. I worked for a small shop and we bought OEM disks and there was none of that problem. In fact, I use the same disks with a (legal) Dell OEM code to reload Dells without the cruft and have no problems. I've done it for dozens of boxes, each with their own Dell OEM code from the release of XP until just recently, and never had an issue. I've also used that dell OEM code to install XP on a replacement box for dead Dells and never had a problem.
Microsoft isn't the limiting factor, it's Dell.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
he could be on a laptop with a wireless broadband card, dont doubt him, foo!
I'm not sure what recovery DVD you're referring to... Perhaps something for Vista, or Media Center Edition? All of the Dells I've seen in the last year or two come with a recovery CD that works just fine on any machine. It's basically a regular WinXP install CD with a Dell label on it.
We've got a bunch of these Dell recovery CDs floating around the office (Win2k, WinXP Home, WinXP Pro) that we use when we don't have recovery media for a machine (like the wonderful HPs with the recovery partition - hose the HDD and lose your recovery media too!).
Obviously the licensing is tied to the machine. You can't transfer an OEM license from one computer to another. What you need to do is enter the OEM license from the sticker on the PC you're reloading. Generally speaking, it will activate online just fine. If it doesn't, just call Microsoft and tell them what happened. They don't generally ask a whole lot of questions, especially now that Vista is the hot item to have.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Then the techies will increasingly migrate off Windows while the user-only types stay with Windows for now. Result:
;-)
Third party/hobbyist software development will grow thinner on Windows (except fully commercial projects) and richer on Linux/BSD/whatever.
I'm pretty sure Microsoft won't be happy with that, because having the greater variety in software has so far been an advantage for Microsoft. There is a reason why Ballmer tends do dance around shouting "DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS"
C - the footgun of programming languages
obv
Perhaps something for Vista, or Media Center Edition? All of the Dells I've seen in the last year or two come with a recovery CD that works just fine on any machine. It's basically a regular WinXP install CD with a Dell label on it.
XP home edition on about a 5 year old Dell. I'll have to grab the disk. I haven't used it since the hard drive was replaced. I thought it was a Norton Ghost hard drive image, not an install disk.
What you need to do is enter the OEM license from the sticker on the PC you're reloading.
You missed the point. It's the move from an older machine to the new white box I make that is forbidden. Has this changed? Can I take the old Dell disc when I retire the Dell an install XP home on the Core 2 Duo PC I just built? I didn't think that was permitted which is the point I was trying to make. If I am wrong, then I'll move XP to newer hardware instead of having it die with the older hardware. In short, I'm not reloading the original PC. I'm building a newer PC and do all the time. Re-using XP from an OEM Dell on the new hardware is forbidden last time I checked.
The truth shall set you free!
You are correct, I did miss the point.
If you're moving to a new home made whitebox then you cannot move your licensing. OEM licensing is tied to the hardware itself.
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
Either your information is way out-of-date, or you're buying computers from Alternate Universe Dell instead of the Dell in our universe.
Dell has included the full OS CD/DVD with every computer they've sold since Windows XP came out. That's the main reason I buy from them and not their competitors. (And I think it contributes a good amount to their success.) The "recovery CD" that came with your Dell doesn't include Windows, it includes all the machine-specific drivers only. The Windows CD/DVD that came with your Dell will work on any piece of hardware as long as you have a valid OEM number. Technically, OEM numbers aren't transferrable between computers, but in reality Microsoft will always re-activate it if you ask.
Comment of the year
Point of order:
This is a kayak.
These are canoes.
That is all.
I'm building a newer PC and do all the time. Re-using XP from an OEM Dell on the new hardware is forbidden last time I checked.
This is why I thanked Microsoft. Instead of biting the bullet and throwing away a copy of XP with the Dell and then buying a new copy of XP for the new hardware, I tried the alternative. WGA and the tie of XP and Vista to the OEM Dell, HP and other machines is good for Open Source. You can migrate your data, but not your Microsoft OS. Thanks again for the nudge out of the nest.
The truth shall set you free!
I didn't know that, since I had a dell OEM copy running on a homemade white box for a year before I moved over to Edgy... Never had an issue.
My Babylon
The "recovery CD" that came with your Dell doesn't include Windows, it includes all the machine-specific drivers only. The Windows CD/DVD that came with your Dell will work on any piece of hardware as long as you have a valid OEM number.
This I didn't know. It has been about 3 years since the hard disk failure and re-install.
Technically, OEM numbers aren't transferrable between computers, but in reality Microsoft will always re-activate it if you ask.
It is prohibited in the EULA. It was a big part of the "Education Campaign" for WGA and one of the points of pirated copies in the BSA attacks. I saw the tied to a single box of parts as a WTF??? and started looking at more user friendly alternatives. WGA, BSA, EULA, Single seat non-transferrable all suck. Even if playing "Mother may I" with MS to get a case by case exception to the non-transferrable OEM install of XP is permitted, it's just not worth it. There are better legal software licenses out there.
The truth shall set you free!
I worked for a small shop and we bought OEM disks and there was none of that problem. In fact, I use the same disks with a (legal) Dell OEM code to reload Dells without the cruft and have no problems.
Tell me more about reloading OEM Dell XP without the Cruft! Can it be done with the discs that shipped with the PC, or do you have to buy a replacement copy from Dell sans cruft?
The truth shall set you free!
"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
You use the word 'migration' very conveniently here. You essentially built yourself a new PC (so now you have an old Dell and the new PC) and wanted to get windows on it for free. You should thank your own cheapness instead of thanking MS.
If you feel that once you consider the price and features, Linux was the way to go for your new computer -- fair enough, and nobody should be able to tell you otherwise. But to claim it's because the licensing scheme is unfair is pretty low. The whole legitimacy of your 'migration' depends on what you did with your old Dell -- do you still use it, did you resell it to someone with the OS intact, or did you trash it? MS has no way of knowing. That's why OEM OS installs are tied to the machine. That's also why they're deeply discounted compared to retail box sales. It's not that unreasonable, just as it's not unreasonable for you to want to run Linux. The only thing unreasonable here is you complaining about it as if you got screwed in the deal.
I didn't know that, since I had a dell OEM copy running on a homemade white box for a year before I moved over to Edgy...
I didn't know it would install on other hardware. I'm so used to all the other Norton Ghost disks that are vendor specific that fails on anything that isn't the genuine model it was made for.
I'm going to try Edgy when it's out of Beta. Maybe at the rebuild, I'll dual boot to run Turbo Tax.
The truth shall set you free!
Gutsy is in beta, Edgy is one release back (6.10 = Edgy = Released October (the 10) 2006 (the 6)), Feisty is current (7.04 = Feisty = Released April (the 04) 2007 (the 7)), Gutsy is coming out this month (7.10 = Gutsy = Released October (the 10) 2007 (the 7)).
This has been brought to you by an Ubuntu user.
My Babylon
Just get a generic OEM disc... I don't think Dell provides those at all. We buy them from NewEgg for customers that wish to purchase a new PC. A copy of the discs doesn't have any hidden codes embedded or anything, so will work with any matching OEM code.
Dell Windows XP Home OEM codes will work with any Windows XP Home OEM disc, etc. This is not entirely true, actually, as they ran out of codes and now you need the new Home OEM disc with all the new codes to guarantee new codes will work, and I don't have one yet. The shop might, I haven't been in for a while. But anything older than a year will work fine for sure.
Anyhow, if you can't find someone with a real disc, just download it off the net. It's not illegal as it's the license you purchase (with the keycode) and not the bits on the disc. I recommend keeping a Home OEM and Pro OEM copy around at all times, just in case, and just use the legal code from the PC Case to do the reinstall.
I've never actually done it with Media Center Edition, so it may not work for that one. (MCE is actually a modified Pro, so it should work, but... Who knows.) And I've never tried it with Vista at all.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
I recommend keeping a Home OEM and Pro OEM copy around at all times, just in case, and just use the legal code from the PC Case to do the reinstall.
It's not legal for me to have both the Home and Pro copies. I'll have to check into the price of the OEM discs. I presume they are priced for the media only and contain no license as the license is in the sticker on the machine.
The truth shall set you free!
Gutsy is in beta, Edgy is one release back
My bad. I mixed up the names. I skipped Edgy and simply went from Dapper (still running) and put Feisty on the new Core 2 Duo box. I'll try Gutsy when it's out of Beta later this month. Maybe it will play nicer with my NAS.
The truth shall set you free!
Could be, I don't have any NAS stuff running in my house, the only network storage I use, I mount through NFS so it looks local.
My Babylon
No, they come with a license key. As I said, the license is what you pay for, not the bits. It's not illegal to have the bits, it's only illegal to install them without a valid key. (Having a Pro disc when you've never owned Pro is a bit of grey area, I'll admit, but they can't make you throw away the disc, or copy of the disc, if you lose your keycode. You still paid for the license and are legally entitled to it.)
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
This is actually too funny to laugh at
No, they come with a license key.
I'm not looking to buy (Pay another MS tax) another copy of XP. I was looking for the ability to transfer the one I already have minus the cruft. As it stands, XP dies with the machine it rode in on. I have no reason to buy another license key for XP.
if you lose your keycode. You still paid for the license and are legally entitled to it.)
Not according to the BSA and the WGA education sites. Windows is not genuine without the sticker attached to the case of the computer on which it is installed on. Lost sticker, lost keycode, lost receipt.. all are items which the BSA will use to consider an installation pirated.
Directly from the Microsoft website regarding counterfeit copies...
Certificate of Authenticity (COA) is a label that helps you identify genuine Microsoft software. A COA is not a software license - it is a visual identifier that assists in determining whether or not the Microsoft software you are running is genuine. However, without it, you will not have a legal license to run Microsoft software. A COA should never be purchased by itself without the software it authenticates.
In short, no sticker = counterfeit copy.
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/howtotell/content.aspx?displaylang=en&pg=coa
The truth shall set you free!
Well, this is the point where I say that I don't give a rat's ass what MS thinks, they can't force you to stick -anything- to your case. And they can't call you a pirate just because you lost your key. Total bullshit.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
If you feel that once you consider the price and features, Linux was the way to go for your new computer -- fair enough, and nobody should be able to tell you otherwise. But to claim it's because the licensing scheme is unfair is pretty low.
Migrate as retire one and part it out for some parts re-use. My cheapness is part of the cutting edge. I often re-use my existing case, keyboard, monitor, etc. My current Core 2 Duo running Feisty is using an second hand (I repaired the power supply) Dell flatscreen monitor which is only 2 years old. The floppy drive is re-cycled. It works, why replace it? The keyboard is the oldest part. I don't need a Windows key and I like the clacky IBM keyboards, so right now I am using a IMB Model M clacky keyboard manufactured in June of 1996. I just couldn't migrate Windows XP due to it's restrictions. This moved the cost from a re-usable part to a disposable part requiring re-purchase to use, unlike my keyboard, mouse, monitor, floppy, case and such. At no time did I say make an illegal copy of the operating system. I said migrate off obsolete hardware.
If that makes me a cheap bastard, so be it. Instead of the family fighting for time on one PC, we are able to build several and spread the joy. As a family, we have a budget. Being able to build that Core 2 Duo machine was a sweet deal, but it only happened with a few recycled parts as are all my major upgrades. Only the Dell is considered non-upgradeable and disposable. The other machines may get a new motherboard and CPU at any time. The Dell XP machine will never see a Quad core motherboard. XP dies with the Pentium 4. I may save the case if I can fit in another power supply and motherboard later, but it won't have XP or a Vista upgrade then.
The truth shall set you free!
I wish I had the ability to mod you up. For those who didn't follow the link, here is the jucy part..
I followed the link to see what that unknown bug was in NFS and rsync.
Bug #1 (liberation), first reported on 2004-08-20 by Mark Shuttleworth
Microsoft has a majority market share
The truth shall set you free!
No, he wanted to MOVE his already purchased copy of XP. He didn't want anything for free. Just because it came with a computer doesn't mean anything. Do you expect to not be able to sell your old car radio if you take it out, just because it came with your car? Or even just use it in another car? He did get screwed in the deal, he bought a product and then is unable to use it because of artificial limitations that were not stated before his purchase (I guarantee you neither Dell nor Microsoft told him that the license couldn't be transferred before he paid for it, whether it's "common knowledge" or not is immaterial). You're either a troll or a moron, but quite possibly both.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Who's failing again?
MCE will install from the PRO disc, but will fail unless you have the second disc in the set, which contains all the media center specifics. The same is true of XP Tablet Edition.
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.
In the US, the Wintel press has cranked up nonsense about how ooxml's demise was "political", which spins everything upside down. A company that owns it's own broadcast network, a sizeable number of newspapers, and spends a billion dollars a month in advertising does have it easy when it comes to blanketing the world with it's opinions.
The attack was also easy because there is little downside to it from their persective. They hate all reasonable standards so the controversy's damage to ISO is a win even if they lose. They also think that the only people who will notice are people who hate them anyway. That's a gamble they have been losing more often and the crowd of people turned off is growing because of it.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Purely FYI, this always violated the terms of Microsoft's license agreement. OEM licenses are considered "married" to the machine they are bought with. They are not transferable. If the machine dies, the license dies with it.
Note that I'm not saying this is a fair or reasonable practice by Microsoft, or even that it's legally enforceable; I'm just saying it violated the terms of their EULA. One more reason to hate Microsoft, in my book.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
More and more proof that Microsoft sucks big time. I really really hope that the money goes to Peru, because MS is the last organisation that needs cash.