Slashdot Mirror
US Consumers Clueless About Online Tracking
Arashtamere writes "A study on consumer perceptions about online privacy, undertaken by the Samuelson Clinic at the University of California and the Annenberg Public Policy Center, found that the average American consumer is largely unaware that every move they make online can be, and often is, tracked by online marketers and advertising networks. Those surveyed showed little knowledge on the extent to which online tracking is happening or how the information obtained can be used. More than half of those surveyed — about 55 percent — falsely assumed that a company's privacy polices prohibited it from sharing their addresses and purchases with affiliated companies. Nearly four out of 10 online shoppers falsely believed that a company's privacy policy prohibits it from using information to analyze an individuals' activities online. And a similar number assumed that an online privacy policy meant that a company they're doing business with wouldn't collect data on their online activities and combine it with other information to create a behavioral profile."
Dear online marketer,
Privacy is about more than legal compliance, it's fundamentally about user trust. Be transparent with your users about your privacy practices. If your users don't trust you, you're out of business.
Sigs cause cancer.
>" US Consumers Clueless About Online Tracking"
US Consumers Clueless.
There, fixed it for you.
Really, its not just online tracking ... there are SO many things, from food packaging and labeling to software to car mileage figures to taxes to rights.
The Department of the Obvious?
But I can just change my browser options to "don't save filled forms" and all the stuff I search for on Google isn't saved right?
Nobody could ever get that information.
I am not sure which is more astonishing: That so few people have bothered to read the privacy policies of the web sites they frequent, or that there are people who think the solution is legislation.
"Preceded by itself yields falsehood" preceded by itself yields falsehood.
... the consumers would be correct.
US consumers are clueless about technology in general. If you would ask the average person if they know simple computer concepts such as partitioning and operating systems they are clueless, never mind how the Internet works. Many times, I have been malevolent tech support (face it, we all have had to fill that role) and people couldn't tell me what the operating system they were running was! They were even more clueless about the processor they were running despite a bold sticker telling you on your computer case. So how can consumers be assumed to know a thing about the internet when most can't even tell you what OS they are running.
There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
Are people really surprised by this? I mean consider the mind-set of a non-techie:
;)
"Hmm in the real world, if I do something without anyone seeing it, then nobody knows right? It must apply to the computer as well, since I can't see anyone else watching me"
Sure we laugh at it, but that's what some people think...hell I'm sure the majority of the population doesn't even understand that the "internet" isn't even a place, just a bunch of connections (or a series of tubes, your pick
Does everyone think that Walmart and every other large retailer doesn't track the purchases made with the same credit/debit card? When you use a single identifiable item for so many things, it makes your behavior very easy to predict and to take advantage of. Say hello to Big Visa.
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
Is there a Firefox plugin that randomly scrambles the data of cookies from known marketers? It'd be best if it kept the data true to form, by perhaps just flipping random bits within the existing cookie values.
US Consumers Clueless about X
that a massive wave of realization crosses the minds of the average slashdot reader/ editor: the average guy on the street doesn't care. some slashdot readers are shocked, shocked i tell you, to find out that a lot of people don't treat their private life with the security protocols of a swiss bank. because they simply don't care
and honestly? i side with the average guy on the street with (non)this issue. the average guy on the street looks at the data generated from his random meanderings on the web as useless, unimportant, and not a matter of privacy. and you know what?: he's right. frankly, that some database might know what i visited on eBay, then amazon.com, then netflix is not some horrible raping of my psyche. it really isn't
someone could track the wanderings of people around the supermarket too. is that information deeply personal to you? it is? so then that means you define your deeply personal identity based on what aisle you walk down in in the supermarket? pffft
then they use that information to pitch DVD titles at you, or pasta, or a hallmark card
oh my god. some database knows i bought pepto bismol. now it wants to sell me toilet paper. MY PERSONAL IDENTITY HAS BEEN HORRIBLY RAPED. I HAVE BEEN DEHUMANIZED AND DEMEANED. MY SENSE OF SELF-WORTH IS LOWERED. IT'S ORWELL'S 1984
pfffffffffft
next nonissue please
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Dear Slashdot,
I'm in a quandry. I see policemen beating lawyers on the streets in Pakistan.
How should I be feeling?
Thanks,
A concerned citizen.
When donating them money in 2006, I specified a "special" address, which contained "from ACLU" in the "Line 1" of the address. The actual address went to "Line 2" of their form. I do this with all establishments I'm dealing with — just in case.
A month or so later invitations to subscribe to "The Nation" (a disgusting uber-Left rag) started showing up bearing the "from ACLU" address...
Now, I expected the ACLU to be bi-partisan — and concerned with my privacy. Asking me for money the next year is fair game. But sharing my info with other — completely unrelated — organizations? Very disappointing...
Somehow, nothing but parcels from Amazon has shown up bearing the "from Amazon" address.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
It isn't a surprise, becuase if people understood how much is tracked and what companies like Google know about them, there would be outrage. No one should have the level of detailed information about a consumer that Google gathers. They know who you email and IM with and about what, what sites you visit, what you buy, what your interests are, where you are and with whom, your stick market interests and investments and more. Even the Soviet era KGB would envy Google data collection and audacity.
Some (GOogle) will say that the privacy policy explains all this. Humbug! First you have to follow a link to find the policy. Second the lawyers and marketeers have obfuscated what is really being done. Further, they can change the policy without notice. When they change you have to know they have changed and then go and read the new policy. How one is supposed to know when no notice is provided is a mystery.
All in all, Google is doing a lot of evil if you believe in personal privacy. They are an invasive collector of personal data and they hide the extent and nature of what they are doing. Google makes Microsoft bashful in their business practices.
Ignorance is bliss. Ever since GWB set his foot in the oval office, Americans have proven that we don't really listen to what's going on with our privacy. I don't know if we are to blame the media. Maybe it's in our nature to ignore it. Or maybe a combination. Either way, we have shown that we don't care enough to make a difference, which is why sites can do this - because, supposedly, no one bothers.
Full Tilt
They don't realize that politician's promises aren't contracts, either. Enlightened fascism now!
Anti-Globalism
i mean just look at them picketing and writing to their congresspeople and agitating and marching and speaking out, etc., etc.
they care with the same gusto you do when some guy at a party goes "i'm telling you, you want to see my brother's band play tomorrow night"
"oh yeah, sounds great, i'll be there, it's important to me, i care"
no they don't. they "care" because they're taking a survey where the issue they don't know about, are not involved in, and never heard about before is being shoved in their face
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Privacy Policy or no privacy policy... if you have been surfing US sites in the past few years, the dept of Home Land Security tracked all (and I mean ALL) your information.
References:
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-aQ_o_yi-s
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWW09xzJfS0
3) http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm
4) http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2006/06/the_newbies_gui.html?entry_id=1510938
No trees were killed in the making of this post; however, many trillions of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
> It's funny how the slashbots think they're so superior and more intelligent than the general public.
I've spent enough time explaining to others the difference between sugar water labeled "Orange Drink" and real orange juice. Has nothing to do with intelligence, just healthy cynicism and a knowledge of some of the restrictions on labeling which have appeared in the media.
> Meanwhile you people go apeshit over the latest Apple product, Intel processor or Linux gadget.
Sorry, but I don't own a single Apple product, and never have. My current cpu is an AMD Sempron 2600 that's on its second motherboard (I don't need the "latest and greatest" - let others pay the premium). Linux gadget? I guess the set-top box qualifies ... all my boxes run linux, so okay, I'll give you that one.
> Stop being so smug and arrogant, and you might be able to get laid for once in your life.
Come on, do you expect me to believe the stork brought my kids into the world?
Look, the fact is that a lot of the consumers out there ARE stupid. They buy stuff they don't even really want. Look at all the phoney claims for shampoos - "the science of silkience - scanner photography reveals blah blah blah ..." "Red bull gives you wings!" Yeah, right, whatever ... but it got people to buy it.
It had 3 unnecessary words. It should have read only: 'US Consumers-Clueless'
And I can also tell you why. In a nutshell: It's not on primetime TV. How I can tell? Well, everyone knows what color the panties of Britney have or how long Paris was in jail, everyone know who's the current American Idol, and all of that because, yes, you guessed it: It made primetime.
Now, this would be information and it's hard to make it infotainment, it's also nothing where you could get kids to call in to a 0900 number, so it has an icecube in hell chance to ever get there.
Also, who should push it there? What company could have a remote interest to inform the public about that? It's in their interest to keep people clueless!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
we only go apeshit over the newest processor when it is 25% or more faster then the last one of the same type, or like 7% faster then any previous one.
Ok, so they do a study and find that consumers are generally oblivious. Fine. The fact that they've been slashdotted means they're letting us know we're oblivious, but what are they doing to educate us? Do they point us toward some ways to help us shop safer? Doesn't look like it.
Do you have any evidence they have abused your information? Do you have any evidence that they have purposely obfuscated their privacy policy? How about evidence that they've changed their policies in order to abuse your data?
Do you have any evidence at all that they are doing "evil" things with your data? No. You have FUD.
Just because they have more data doesn't mean they have worse privacy practices than any other company.
Every move you make
Every fish you bake
I'll be watching yooooooou
(BAD SOUSAPHONE SOLO, with apologies to Sting)
I couldn't help it.
..after all the time I see people spend tracking their orders online.
What's the value of information that you don't know?
And turning cookies off doesn't work any more, btw.
:)
Do a view source on this page. See those two URLs not associated with Slashdot?
Oh, we know about you.
We definitely know.
Google --> access to Amazon --> access to Craigs.
Our only problem now is merging your "Consumer Profile" with your cell phone call list.
Which we have, since nobody bothered to opt out.
Luckily for us, LISP was able to handle that.
In a week or so, when SCOTUS signs off on all your bits and packets, and it will...
Santa won't be the only one who knows if you've been naughty or nice.
- a disgruntled minion
let me illustrate for you how hysteria and panic and fear get turned into slippery slope arguments:
;-P
if you let homosexual men marry, next you will have to make pedophilia, rape, incest, bestiality and necrophilia legal
do you believe that? i will take a guess and say no
such a thought, is, of course, complete bullshit: people can tell the difference between a gay man and a corpse fucker
but in the mind of some social conservatives, THEY REALLY BELIEVE THIS
why? because their slippery slope argument really is nothing but a proxy for fear, panic, hysteria. not rational thought
in the exact same way do you talk above
the average well adjusted person can easily tell the difference between the government shifting for terrorists and netflix shifting for forrest gump. just as easily as a well adjusted person can tell the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia
but social conservatives can't tell that difference, IN THE EXACT SAME WAY you can't tell the difference between neglible trangressions of types of privacy no one cares about and all out tyranny
and they, like, you, rationalize their fear and hysteria with the exact same bullshit slippery slope argument
no, you spastic wierdo, THERE IS NO SLIPPERY SLOPE
you may now conclude that i am a secret advance agent of the coming fascism
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
The Onion: 95% of Americans missing the point http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29245
Sounds plausible: http://eventarithmetic.blogspot.com/
Companies have long been keeping records of our offline purchases too. What do you think those point cards at the supermarket are? Nothing but tracking mechanisms with a little price reduction to sweeten the deal (of course the membership and price reductions also entice you to use that supermarket more exclusively). Did you read the fine print when you got that card? Who knows what they do with the info on what you purchase.
-Ian
It was the first and last time I donated to them. Since it's EFF or donating direct to charities or causes.
Quack, quack.
Gets paid a lot more than you do to be an expert salesman, lawyer, accountant, business exec, etc...
If they knew computers the way you did:
IBM made a killing with their consultants because they pushed the "mystery and magic" aspect of computers to the average person. Rather than trying to get their customers to understand the computer, they sold them on the notion of buying technical support - everything from hardware maintainence plans to expensive consultants. And businesses, which wanted to focus their talents on the things they did best, rather than becoming computer specialists, bought the whole thing, hook, line, and sinker.
Instead of berating others for what they don't know, recognize that your knowledge is useful and valuable. Just as you wouldn't think of going to court without a lawyer, an *average* person recognizes the limits of their knowledge and (hopefully) knows enough to contact tech support when they don't understand something. Now if techs could just get paid like lawyers do...
After all, if logic and thinking was so easy everyone could do it, would any ./ers have jobs?
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
It could also be that ACLU mailed it on behalf of The Nation. That is ACLU got the brochures from The Nation and printed the envelope and/or did the mail merging. That way you get mail from The Nation, but all they know is that ACLU sent it to x-number of people that fit profile Y without ever knowing who you are.
This is quite common practice and often there are two opt-ins (or outs) on applications: "allow us to share your information with our partners" and "allow us to send you information on behalf of our partners".
...to major.
;) )
let's take a quick stroll down memoryhole lane shall we?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/23/sentient_worlds/
http://www.simulexinc.com/
just who do you think has all that info in a tight little package? a simulation with that many nodes running a very sophisticated 'world environment'.
right now on the front page of Drudge Report' 11/05/2007 2050 pst
http://tinyurl.com/2ghvhm 'Poll finds nearly 80 percent of U.S. adults go online'
let's add a few more bits to the mix (no pun intended
ATT invents surveillance programming language
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/att-invents-pro.html
Qwest exec not allowed to reveal classified documents in court re:civilian intercepts w/o warrant
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/tech/article/0,2777,DRMN_23910_5719566,00.html
an interesting summary statement.
http://cryptogon.com/?p=877
please pass the tinfoil, and yes, my html skills are few. however, like the slashdotter far above said 'we all have our skill sets'.
Apology accepted. Redeem yourself with Adam Freeland's We Want Your Soul
Your cell phone, your wallet, your time, your ideas,
No barcode, no party, no ID, no beers.
Your bankcard, your license, your thoughts, your fears
No simcard, no disco, no photo, not here.
Your blood, your sweat, your passions, your regrets,
Your office, your time off, your fashions, your sex,
Your pills, your pass, your tits, your ass.
Your laughs, your balls. We want - it all.
WE - WANT - YOUR - SOUL.
(Your Cash, Your House, Your Phone, Your Life)
(Your Cash, Your House, Your Phone, Your Life)
Show us your habits, your (fads?facts?), your fears,
Give us your address, your shoe size, your years,
Your digits, your plans, your number, your eyes,
Your schedule, your desktop, your details, your life.
Show us your children, your photos, your home.
Here, take credit, take insurance, take a loan.
Get a job, get a pension, get a haircut, get a suit.
Play the lottery, play football, play the field, snort some toot...
( and then Freeland starts to get cynical about marketing, with samples from Bill Hicks, and no, I'm not going to spoil it by typing out any more lyrics :)
The story shouldn't say "consumers clueless about online tracking", it should just say, "consumers are just clueless".
Backtrack a second. I'm not a "customer" until I swipe my card at the checkout line. Prior to that, I'm occupying space and am merely potential. Customers are those who purchase. Everyone else is simply unconverted potential. Step back and approach your disdain from that vantage point.
If it looks like a duck, let's call it a moose.
I hate how this site always loads up whenever I access certain sites....
~ In Trust, We Trust ~
While the constitution is supposed to state our right to privacy is inalienable , apparently we need a redundant set of laws to positively guarantee our privacy.
And i don't care that theyre private companies, there are precedents which protect our constitutional rights even against private companies. They can't invade your privacy by putting cams in bathrooms. Apartment complexes and other renting landlords can't claim dominion over, break into, or otherwise disturb your house, your in-complex mailbox, or your family just because they own the property; they must obtain a court order.
You have a reasonable expectation when engaging in commerce that your transaction information and communications are retained within that business alone, and the constitution needs to come into play here.
This is, once again, similar to the recent story about the US claiming that isp's, since they are private, should be fair game for spying (both by their corporate office and the government)
anyone who reads the constitution and has a brain can put 2 and 2 together here.
VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
...at least not safe, verifiable encryption which requires identification.
Look at the way SSL is mis-used almost constantly across the web. Even most "techies" don't get it because the concepts are counter-intuitive (even if very simple). SSL certificates and CAs were created to ensure that the domain name you typed-in is the real holder of that domain name. But techies generally think that SSL certs were supposed to validate a site's overall identity or business ethics, and they "know" that SSL has "failed" at this, and so they generally omit it (or slag it) instead of properly evangelizing it.
The product of this misunderstanding: Web users who never bother to check the domain name in the address bar when the lock appears in their browser (if they look for the lock at all). That is how they get phished. There is a reason why the lock appears in the address bar, because it validates that you are connected with the real holder of that address. Whether the people at that address are 'nice', or whether 'ba.com' really stands for your bank is fundamentally up to the user to verify... like getting the phone number of your bank from the back of your credit card or from a bank statement instead of that nice flyer that someone stuffed in your mailbox.
To have computers check credentials for you would entail turning the Internet into a repressive regime where a central authority tells you who what it thinks is "good, shady or bad". And requiring it for all access would probably move it into the 'opressive' category.
Be very careful what you wish for here.
For those that do not understand why some people don't like being monitered online:
Imagine you are in a bar/restaurant/etc. A complete stranger sits next to you, turns, and proceeds to very blatantly stare directly at you for the rest of the evening. Presumably, one would be bothered by this. Though the situation is not the same, many of us experience the same feeling of unease when a company (or multiple companies) attempt to monitor everything we do online (or more recently, offline). Even though it is not inherently bad, it is unpleasant.
As well, many large companies openly display a lack of morals, and as a result some people worry what will be done with the information.
Together, these cause many people to want corporate tracking to be regulated.
For starters, they need to stop calling it "Privacy Policy." People read those two words together, and they think it means that their privacy is assured. "Lack of Privacy Policy" doesn't ring too well though does it? They should be required to title the policy something that identifies the intent of the message though. Maybe something like "Information Sharing Policy" or something along those lines. Further, I'd like to see more than one check box stating "I agree to all of the crap I didn't read above."
Not long ago, I have had one user who never appeared on my spam filter's top-10 immediately jump to the #1 spot as the most obvious target for spam where every other high-ranked spam hitting our filter is for her. It's hard to know what kicked it off precisely, but you can bet it had something to do with signing up for something online and using her company email address as the point of contact.
(Or at least that they aren't tracking -- we don't know that they don't continually report recent transactions to DHS.)
They don't have to when the government has all the help they need from the likes of VeriSign.
In a related study, researchers found that consumers thought that the programs on their machines were written by magic gnomes, and that anything that didn't work was a quick and easy fix "Can't you just...change the codes or something?"
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
...I believe the applicable addon here is "CookieSafe" or similar.
Web bugs can also be used to track people. Using "ImgLikeOpera" with default set to load images for originating site only will largely skirt web bugs.
"Safe History" and "Clear Cache" are also good to have in Firefox.
And let us not forget Privoxy + Tor + Torbutton if you really want to be anonymous.
Look, marketers have been promising targeted advertising based on behavior analysis, etc, for several years now. I have opted into EVERYTHING. Online, on my TiVo, even on my Kroger Shopping Card. The minute I get even one reasonably targeted ad, I might consider the ramifications. I love cage fighting/MMA, collect guns and computers and 8-bit game consoles, love TiVo (own three), hunt, drink light domestic beer, love pizza, play lots of video games with my buddies, Cheer for the Razorbacks and the Colts, work as a bouncer at a bar, am gay, and have been married to my husband for 3 months. The best I get is TiVo suggesting "Rules of Engagement" and a coupon in the mail for Monostat 1-Day Yeast Infection Cure. If it meant I could actually see an ad for something I give two shits about, I'd write up the dossier for them myself.
Pass it on...
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
In Capitalist America, Computers Compute You.
[tracked] by online marketers and advertising networks
Well, if there only would be them. At least we know what their intentions are.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
I'm so ahead of those trackers because I wear my fake mustache and glasses when I buy questionable things on the internets. And they say we're clueless!
"Derrrr....Ummmmm.,.... I'm an American and I'm smart."
I've been fighting with Wachovia for the last month over the abundance of tracking images on their banking site. doubleclick, advertising.com, zedo, tribalfusion...the list goes on and on. All this crap on my online banking site. Fortunately, I have pretty aggressive filter settings in AB+, but this is total BS. Their stance is "Everyone is doing it". Kinda funny considering only one of the 9 largest competitors uses this crap on their site. They have 4 days left on their deadline to remove this garbage before I cloe all of my accounts and move those which I manage for elderly family and family estates. After that time I will also be posting the details of my ordeal (including conversations with the office of the President/CEO).
Check out www.wachovia.com and see what AB+ picks up with easylist subscription.
There is nothing in the constitution that specifically states the Right to Privacy. This right is implied through the wording of several articles in the Bill of Rights.
system for polluting the databases of marketers.
Wow. If I had to design a honeypot for slathering conspiracy theorists I couldn't have crafted a better post! And from the looks of the responses it was quite successful!
do you know how to parse sentences? how the hell did you get that meaning?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Most of the examples of MITM I've seen discussed had to do with Wifi hotspots where the attacker poses as the proper access point, and uses a certificate they signed themselves. The expectation is that the victims will just click "Accept" on the SSL warning dialog.
I've looked myself for examples of the "successful" kind, but found none. I am not at all surprised, because it would probably mean that a CA had its key stolen (very unlikely) or that a CA had been conclusively caught participating in MITM.
The latter would require a whistleblower to come forward, who would simply be thrown in prison for exposing "anti-terrorist" undercover operations during wartime (esp. since its all "legal" now); they would be perceived by most of the public as criminal. And just who would risk that anyway when so many VeriSign and Network Solutions employees are ex-NSA, with their business model and sense of loyalty predicated on an expanding police surveillance state?
isn't 'clueless' the default state of the US consumer with regard to anything whatsoever? why would they be expected to know anything about online tracking?
"Maybe public education should include classes in Critical Analysis of Ad Claims 101 and Weasel Word Composition"
... say until age 30. That should stick in their minds.
Nah, just teach Cynicism 101 throughout any childs developing years
Don't blame me, it's usually 2 in the morning when I post
...for reading all of my long-winded messages and posting thoughtful responses. Its nice to have that level of reciprocation from time to time.