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Arecibo Observatory Loses Funding
An anonymous reader noted that "The Arecibo Observatory funding was slashed. Cut to $8 million from $10.5 million, which will decrease the amount of time that the telescope is operational. "A quarter of its staff was laid off last year," and Arecibo, which is located in Puerto Rico, could possibly be completely closed in four years, according to the "National Science Foundation (NSF), which pays for the operation of the telescope." This comes after "a review panel for the foundation's astronomy division two years ago" suggested cutting Arecibo's financing by 25 percent as a way to pay for new facilities. There has been "[a]n outcry" in response to the "decision, particularly from planetary scientists" who argued that the panel "overlooked Arecibo's role in cataloging potential dangers from asteroids." The Times notes that in Arecibo's favor is the fact that it "may be much cheaper to keep...open" than dismantle, which "could cost hundreds of millions of dollars."" I've been considering a vacation to PR for a few years, and seeing this thing is on my list of awesome things to try to see. Guess I should hurry ;)
que lastima
I love this practice. I see it going on where I work. Pick on the weak department, which can't easily defend its funding and feather your own nest. Well, what goes around comes around.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
It's high time some of these scientists learn to sugar their own churros.
I thought Bond already destroyed that thing?
FYI, Wikipedia has a fantastic hi-res image of the radio telescope.
"Flag on the moon. How did it get there?"
Stop looking for aliens.
There are no aliens, and if there were, they would hate your freedom. You are helping the terrorists by looking for aliens. The aliens like Hitler and Mussolini, and they drive slowly on toll roads. You do not want to look for the nonexistent aliens.
We will slash your funding until you stop looking for aliens. After that, we will tie you down with rules that drive you to suicide through boredom. So stop looking for aliens.
There is no NWO conspiracy, by the way. It's all an illusion created by the Aliens, who hate our freedom.
I've been considering a vacation to PR for a few years, and seeing this thing is on my list of awesome things to try to see. Guess I should hurry ;)
I was actually there in early 2006, and I have to say it was really well worth it. It's hard to put into words how HUGE it is. The attached Museum is also quite nice- it even includes a small sliver of the moon, which was a bonus for me.
unless there is some other technology that comes along and blows this telescope out of the water, it really is in our best interests to keep it running.
The fact is that large terrestrial telescopes (radio or optical) have been superseded by advances in technology and things like distributed arrays can do more for less money.
Needs to not mouth off to the national science director about her space alien theories.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
Just sell the sucker for pennies on the dollar.
I'm sure Paul Allen could use a giant radio telescope to supplement his array. Just use a little e-VBLI, and you got a pretty nice addition. And if you don't want it full time, I bet many a hobbyist/small research institution would having the option to get radio telescope time instead of the typical optical rent-a-internet-telescope business.
Clearly this is not a vacation, but here's a picture once you're up there.
http://www.wikipuertorico.com/index.php?title=Arecibo_Observatory
It seems insane to end such a cost effective program but government rarely makes sense. I guess they could change their program to search for proof the Universe is 6,000 years old then do real science in a clandestined manner like it was done 800 years ago. How far we've come.
Arecibo is a pretty impressive radio telescope! I figure the local Puerto Rican govenment will keep Arecibo going. In addition to it's science uses it's a somewhat popular tourist site in PR.
If this causes a decrease in "asteroid to swing by the earth within 10 million KM 90 years from now" stories - I'm all for cutting the funding.
... I'd prefer NOT to know about it than to know about it.
So I'm happy.
Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
I'll bet many of the scientists who pulled that gig considered it a vacation too!
God: When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
# The first planets outside the solar system were discovered around Pulsar B1257+12, a rapidly rotating pulsar with three Earth-like planets in orbit. ( early 1990s )
# One of its first accomplishments: Establishing the rotating rate of Mercury, which turned out to be 59 days rather than the previously estimated 88 days ( 1965 ).
# Detailed maps of the distribution of galaxies in the universe ( late 1980s ).
# The first pulsar in a binary system was discovered ( 1974 ), leading to important confirmation of Einstein's theory of general relativity and a Nobel Prize for astronomers Russell Hulse and Joseph Taylor ( 1993 ).
# Investigations of ice craters at the polar regions of the planet Mercury with the radar system ( 1990s ) and similar investigation of the lunar poles for evidence of ice ( 1997 ).
# Provided much of our pre-Magellan mission knowledge of the surface of Venus via 1.5 km resolution imagery of the surface through the planet's cloud cover using the radar system.
# The observatory has made major contributions to our understanding of the chemistry and dynamics of the Earth's upper atmosphere and ionosphere.
# Discovery of two classes of pulsars: millisecond pulsars, which rotate several hundred times per second, and slower-rotating pulsars, which rotate about once per second. The slow-rotating pulsars speed through space, while millisecond pulsars move slowly through space.
Closing down Arecibo would be like closing down the Fermi Lab particle accelerator to Particle Physics. Its A MASSIVE asset to the Radio Astronomy field, and this short sidedness to get a few measly million (when compared to the countless millions allocated to other projects) is Absurd
"Iraq has nothing to do with it, raising that as an issue is just beyond ignorant."
Sooo - if you're short 2 million dollars, don't look to an place where the budget is bleeding billions?
You know, a billion here and a billion there, pretty soon you're talking some real money. NASA was also just recently cutting back. Obviously we (the USA) have LOTS of cash to burn as long as it fits the correct agenda. 6 BILLION seems a lot - ever seen what the DOD gets? 440 Billion. That's a pretty large investment, I think. I would suggest that perhaps cutting them back a few billion could maybe MAYBE do some good in other sectors.
Oh, sorry. I'm spreading humainst FUD. My bad. Ignore the troubles - watch out for terrorists!
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
The whole National Science Foundation has a $6 billion budget, but we spend $75 billion a year (off budget, mind you, that's not counting the $400 billion a year we spend on defense) on a war that does nothing but foment hatred against the US?
I think our (and your) priorities are a bit off.
I for one hope it will be converted into a skate park!
You just got troll'd!
I never thought that we would start needing charities to fund astronimcal science, but maybe it is time? It doesn't help that people think NASA is better funded than it is. Maybe there needs to be a campaign illustrating this, as a form of hitting people with the clue stick.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
to lose something so precious over so little money. With all the billionaires running around, someone should step up and pledge the money to keep Arecibo online.
Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
I am from Puerto Rico. And it has been my absolute favorite technological wonder mankind has ever built. I dont know how many of you have actually seen it. It is simply amazing. I used to go there since I was a kid around the age of 16... I started going with my father at least 1 weekend a month, then with my boyscout troop we would do a hike that would end in the forest next to the radar. I even had the opportunity once to go where the radar itself is, in that dwindling pendulum up above the Dish. A lot of people have had to see it from the "tourist trap" point of view from the top of the observatory road. But as a boyscout we found a way around that sits us right on the dish. The thing is huge, and the 3 towers that hold the antenna's are simply impressive.
:) that or use the dish for some gnarly skatebording contest... ;)
:)
One of the most interesting things I admire about it, is that Puerto Rico has the worst hurricane season's ever, and that thing has hold several Cat 5 hurricanes without having a glitch damaged.
Cmdr Taco should defenitely go see it before its shutdown and abandoned... In fact he should organize a slashdot tour and while the tour guide is explaining mumbo jumbo, someone should connect a linux terminal somewhere and use it to transmit some slashdot to outerspace...
Jokes aside, I am really sad they are loosing funding. US Government should end their investment in the stupid war and drop some money in science for a change... I bet a whatever 1 month costs Congress the war, would put the observatory running for another 5 years or more.
PS. There is a village about 5 miles behind the observartory where they make the meanest Skirt Steak you can eat and one of the meanest moonshines you could drink...
Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
You gotta understand the Bush administration!
Out of that $8million in funding, spend $1million lobbying to Bush/Hillary/Guilliani Co. to get asteroids labeled as 'trrrrerist threats.' Then, declare that you plan to eavsdrop on all asteroid activity under a contract with Haliburton. Now, contact Haliburton and tell them you will do trrrrerist hunting for $50million/year. Haliburton will ask for $100million/year from the US gov't. Boom.. the Fed will print more money!
If that doesn't work..
Spend another $1million lobbying the other Republicrats.. and declare that by spending $50million to paint the observatory green, it will save like $4 in energy costs per year.
or do both..
--- We need more Ron Paul!
So the scientists say that their favorite toy is underfunded? Maybe they should help fund it a bit, then. That's the way everything else in the world works, isn't it? If you use it, you pay for it.
Yes, technically it is 'used' by everyone, so everyone should pay for it. But in reality only the scientists have any direct access to it, and we have to hope what they are doing is worthwhile.
Instead of funding the telescope, how about we fund the scientists that are doing things we want done, and THEY use their funding to rent the 'scope, funding it via projects that people find worthwhile.
I have a feeling this would actually mean that the 'scope gets less funding, showing just exactly how much these scientists value their toy.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Lindsay Blanton
RadioReference.com
I'm a SCIENCE NUT and a Puerto Rican. I love the island I'm from and adore its people, culture, natural resources, and sights. That said, my trip to Arecibo was a total waste of time. I got to see a big satellite dish...WOW...one that I had already seen in a James Bond movie.
It was a big yawhn for me...not worth the trip to the mountain or the ride up. It was basically dead -- no museum, very little information, no exhibit of the discoveries, just a tiny exhibit with some old radio equipment. These people really need to learn how to show off their work to their visitors.
They should definitely keep the observatory open if it is useful to the scientists using it, but as a visitor there are definitely a thousand things I can do in Puerto Rico that are more fun than looking at a big huge dish.
Yes lets continue to dump money into an aging system instead of developing a new one. Stop being nostalgic about a lab instrument you idiots, this isn't about religious freaks its about phasing out old equipment.
Sick, isn't it.
when there's nowhere else to look for hope.. in despair we'll turn to the stars.
Barrack wants to cut NASA's budget even more than it already is and Barrack is the youtube generation's candidate. Just eat the budget cuts and tow the party line.
Note that there is a report due in December on the cost of decommissioning the telescope and that Cornell is working with the Puerto Rican government to find ways to fill in the funding gap.
* National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center (NAIC)/Arecibo - Cornell acted quickly to implement the first of the Senior Review's recommendations to reduce the base operating budget to $8M over the next three years, by modifying the operating mode for astronomy observations, increasing the fraction of time for survey work, and limiting the number of receivers supported and the number of hours for astronomy observations. They also eliminated 30 FTEs, or 25% of their staff. Not all of these savings are realizable immediately, since personnel termination costs must be covered and the observatory requires basic maintenance to ensure safety of operations. By FY 2010, the full $2.5 million savings identified by the Senior Review will be recovered into the AST base budget and available for other uses.
Cornell has said that it will cease operations of the planetary radar in October 2007 to meet these budget reductions. We have recently learned that, in fact, they are maintaining the capability to operate the planetary radar, although on a less frequent schedule. In conversations with NASA management, it has been made clear that NASA has no intention of resuming support of the planetary radar, which they terminated in FY 2006.
With NSF's encouragement and support, Cornell and Arecibo staff are actively pursuing partnerships with the Puerto Rican government, local businesses, and academic institutions to provide additional operations support by 2011. We recently visited Puerto Rico, held a town hall for the Arecibo community, and met with commonwealth officials, business leaders, representatives from the universities and concerned citizens. We clarified the Senior Review recommendations and NSF's role in supporting the observatory and helped foster discussions among the many parties interested in maintaining the observatory as a viable operating facility for scientific research, education, and public outreach. The meetings were very positive with many expressions of a desire to work together to identify creative solutions to obtaining additional support. Many challenges face Cornell in preparing a plan for sustained long-term support from non-AST sources. I am optimistic that such a plan can be put together. NSF has informed Cornell that a concrete plan for operations in 2011 and beyond must be in place by spring of 2009. It is at that point that NSF must set the FY 2011 budget and so make a decision about the long-term future of Arecibo.
Nonetheless, in order to plan responsibly, and weigh the various options, we have to understand the cost of closure to be weighed against other options. As recommended by the Senior Review, NSF is also engaging an engineering firm to carry out a study of the cost of decommissioning the observatory facility. The study will explore a variety of possible endpoints, ranging from complete deconstruction and restoration of the site to its natural state to securely 'mothballing' the facility. The results of this study will be available in December 2007 and will serve as critical input to our planning for the long-term future of the observatory. This is part of responsible lifecycle costing, and should not be regarded as indicating that any final decisions have been made.
SIX BILLION dollars is a pathetic amount of money for research
NSF funds programs in biology, math, CS, engineering, geosciences, physics and astronomy, education, and sociology. So, that's probably less than ONE BILLION dollars per subject. So, we spend the same amount of money for one day in Iraq than a year's worth of physics research.
It's commonly accepted that general research pushes technological boundaries back which can drive research in the economy. So, if we are an "idea based economy", we had better invest in infrastructure.
They should definitely keep the observatory open if it is useful to the scientists using it, but as a visitor there are definitely a thousand things I can do in Puerto Rico that are more fun than looking at a big huge dish.
You can hand in your geek card on the way out the door.
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
The problem with renting research facilities is that the people with the best and most innovative research proposals are often too poor to pay the fees. Cost recovery sounds great on paper. It often doesn't work as intended in the real world.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
If we say that it plays a role in our National Security because it's used to intercept foreign terrorist transmissions, they'll have their funding and then some.
--- If the bible proves the existence of God, then Superman comics prove the existence of Superman.
Just go to S.R. Hadden for the money. He's good for it.
Do you look both ways when crossing the street?
Otro Puertorro ignorante...
;)
:o
I have to say your comment is very ignorant, specially because you are form the island, you should know how some things are just tourist traps. But there is a lot of things to do at the radar if you know how to look at it. For example, there is this nature tourist group called Aventuras Tierra Adentro (Adventures in the Motherland), that will take you around, and under the radar, not only seeing the technological wonder the Observatory is, but how it was constructed, why they chose the Arecibo Valley to place its location and more importantly how has the vegetation and fauna of the area has been affected by its presence.
More importantly why is the observatory so important to Science, and how powerful the observatory really is compared to other radio telescopes.
Further more, I don't know where you went, but the museum on the top of the hill inside the observatory has the basic information for the radar. There is a movie theater where they run a documentary of the radar, its location and how it was constructed. Also the discoveries they have made using the Radar are displayed in the museum. The old radio equipment they are exhibiting there goes to show what they were using back in the day to do what the radar does now. Aside from that, the radar received an overhaul recently. Its actual transmiting time of information towards outerspace is of minutes and the retrieval of data is also in minutes compared to the observatory in New Mexico which takes 12 hours to receive or send any kind of data to outerspace.
Granted the observatory is not a place to take 30 family members with noisy children. Its a hike, and if you are not in shape, granted you will need a breather when you get on top. But it is not a bad experience or one that makes you feel you wasted your time going to. It is located in a beautiful valley, lots of nice restaurants around, great view, the trip is not so bad and if you finish early, you can always head out for the West Coast and have some Mojitos and seafood in Rincon.
I can tell you all this because I recently (from oct 16 to oct 31 2007) went to Puerto Rico and took my fiancee with me. She is North American and she was fascinated with the radar and how impressive it is. She is not as big of a Nerd/Geek like I am, but she was able to appreciate the wonder it is.
You should be proud this technological wonder is sitting in the mountains of the country you love so much. To me its always been one of those things that should be considered a Wonder of the World, because its simply humbles you as a human being to look at one of the modern marvels we have constructed in our time.
Or you are not as much of a Science Nut as you think you are...
Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
I do think that security in Iraq could have been improved had that money been sent to scientific researchers, even ones that don't work for DARPA, than allowing the money to possibly end up in the hands of terrorists.
All this money spent on seince doesnt get us anything. We need to spend more on roads and the war but that seince is a total waste.
Arecibo was a loser in the Senior Review; something has to give to pay for ALMA operations!
As much as I would like to one day walk across the dish holding my child's hand explaining what great things it has uncovered, I'd prefer it stay in operation and keep investigating the cosmos.
So lets play the "Make Believe" game:
The Hilldebeast or Barack Hussien Obama win the election. The new President pulls out the troops (leaving a failed state in the heart of the Middle East). Now we have all those billions available. Do you think the new President will:
A) Spend the money on scientific projects.
or
B) Spend the money on socialist welfare programs.
Well?
Another option might be to put the facility up for sale and see if any private universities or other governments want to buy or lease the facility. Granted there would be no guarantee that research data gained would remain in the public domain, but at least someone would be using the facility. Plus it would make on heck of an evil lair...
Call my cynical, but I'm going with
C) Porkbarrel projects that benefit the special interest groups
I have been there at least 5 times and now I just skip the museum and look at the dish.(you have to pay admission for the Museum) The view there is quite amazing and there is a relaxing breeze.
Reading Rainbow did a show there and Geordi LaForge... I mean LaVar Burton got to walk on the dish and under the dish.
His access to the site and general visitors lack of access is the biggest disappointment. You can't go to the labs, you can't walk around. (Under the dish there is a greenhouse) You can't see them actually working. This no-doubt is due to the limited funding and security.
Overall, it is still a good trip (including the scenic drive there) and I will probably go again to show it to someone else, but I won't go otherwise. (Unless they add the things I mentioned)
The Previous poster probably suffers from I live here syndrome(IE. NYC and the empire state building)
My Grandparents live in nearby Manati.
There's a lot of events in scientific funding that are a damn shame but this one really isn't that horrible. There really is no need to FUD this one up.
More Twoson than Cupertino
Brillant!
Under your proposal:
Funding from the public: basic science 0.001% of budget, ways to develop new more toxic and disposable plastic garbage %9.999, new fancier versions of viagra an dick extension procedures 90%.
Funding from the governments: ways to wage war on everybody and everything while enriching one's cronies, 100% of the "science" budget.
Funding from the religious wackos: ways to prove science does not work and if it does, the Universe is 600 year old and the Earth is flat, 100% of the budget.
I can't wait for your proposal to be adopted.
Not.
Something else may also weigh in Arecibo's favor: it may be much cheaper to keep it open. To dismantle the telescope and return the area to a natural state could cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
Complete and utter bullshit.
A scrap metal recovery / demolition team could rip the whole thing out of there for a few hundred thousand dollars and nature itself will return the area to a "natural state" in a very few years.
The museum is not a necesary item when you go up there... the sellout is just the amazing view and like you said the drive there is very nice.
;)
I bet you don't know what other plants they have in that greenhouse...
But I don't blame them not being able to show you how they work. I mean they are located on the antenna suspended over the dish... and other parts as well.
The funding for this, doesnt come from the PR Goverment. It comes from US Federal Grants... so unless the US releases more money there is nothing the PR government can do. Besides their hands are tied with the IBU and other shit...
Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
I don't consider the money spent on the war wasted. This war was the best thing to happen to some of us. My country fighting against terrorism has paid for my new house and a condo in Florida.
I got this from wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_Observatory , but thought it would be useful for people that don't know much about it.
General Information
The Arecibo telescope is distinguished by its enormous size: the main collecting dish is 305 m in diameter, constructed inside the depression left by a karst sinkhole. The dish is the largest curved focusing dish on Earth, giving Arecibo the largest electromagnetic-wave gathering capacity. The Arecibo telescope's dish surface is made of 38,778 perforated aluminum panels, each measuring about 1 m by 2 m (3 ft by 6 ft), supported by a mesh of steel cables.
It is a spherical reflector (as opposed to a parabolic reflector). This form is due to the method used to aim the telescope: the telescope's dish is fixed in place, but the receiver at its focal point is repositioned to intercept signals reflected from different directions by the spherical dish surface. The receiver is located on a 900-ton platform which is suspended 150 m (450 ft) in the air above the dish by 18 cables running from three reinforced concrete towers, one of which is 110 m (365 ft) high and the other two of which are 80 m (265 ft) high (the tops of the three towers are at the same elevation). The platform has a 93 m long rotating bow-shaped track called the azimuth arm on which receiving antennae, secondary and tertiary reflectors are mounted. This allows the telescope to observe any region of the sky within a forty degree cone of visibility about the local zenith (between -1 and 38 degrees of declination). Puerto Rico's location near the equator allows Arecibo to view all of the planets in the solar system, though the round trip light time to objects beyond Saturn is longer than the time the telescope can track it, preventing radar observations of more distant objects.
The construction of the Arecibo telescope was initiated by Professor William E. Gordon of Cornell University, who originally intended to use it for the study of Earth's ionosphere. Originally, a fixed parabolic reflector was envisioned, pointing in a fixed direction with a 150 m (500 ft) tower to hold equipment at the focus. This design would have had a very limited use for other potential areas of research, such as planetary science and radio astronomy, which require the ability to point at different positions in the sky and to track those positions for an extended period as Earth rotates. Ward Low of the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) pointed out this flaw, and put Gordon in touch with the Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratory (AFCRL) in Boston, Massachusetts where a group headed by Phil Blacksmith was working on spherical reflectors and another group was studying the propagation of radio waves in and through the upper atmosphere. Cornell University proposed the project to ARPA in the summer of 1958 and a contract was signed between the AFCRL and the University in November of 1959. Cornell University published a request for proposals (RFP) asking for a design to support a feed moving along a spherical surface 435 feet (133 m) above the stationary reflector. The RFP suggested a tripod or a tower in the center to support the feed. George Doundoulakis, director of research for the antenna design company General Bronze Corp in Garden City, N.Y. received the RFP from Cornell and studied it with his brother, Helias Doundoulakis, a civil engineer.
The two brothers thought of a more efficient way to suspend the feed, and finally designed the cable suspension system that was used in final construction. U.S. Patent office granted Helias Doundoulakis patent No. 3,273,156 on Sept. 13, 1966 with the title "Radio Telescope having a scanning feed supported by a cable suspension over a stationary reflector".
Construction began in the summer of 1960, with the official opening taking place on November 1, 1963. As the primary dish is spherical, its focus is along a line rather than at a single point (as would be the case for
Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
spend ALL of the tax dollars on killing people and blowing up shit?
Seeing as how the man's such a scientific ignoramous, maybe we could tell him that its actually necessary for a continental anti-terrorist defense that's based off-shore but would still be under our control.
And just to seal the deal, triple the operational budget.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
I'm from Puerto Rico too, can you mention which Cat5 hurricanes have passed through here? I must have miss them. Georges and Hugo were Cat 3 and AFAIK those 2 were the only ones where the eye touched land.
"I've been considering a vacation to PR for a few years, and seeing this thing is on my list of awesome things to try to see. Guess I should hurry ;) "
It's a US territory, hence, customs/culture are similar, but the prices are higher than San Francisco, people are somewhat bias against US mainlanders, and the weather is a just as good as Miami. Save your money and goto Central America....
so in a nutshell fuck off?
:) you fuck off...
no no no...
Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
Sooo - if you're short 2 million dollars, don't look to an place where the budget is bleeding billions?
War time spending is a special circumstance, not regular funding, it is adding to the deficit. When this spending stops it should *not* be spent elsewhere, it should just stop, period. It is not a pool of new money to start dumping into various pork projects. Not that mapping asteroids is pork, but if former Iraq spending becomes permanent and diverted there other former Iraq spending will surely go to pork. It is inevitable *if* Iraq spending gets redirected to things that should be part of the regular budget.
Well SOMEONE has to notify Bruce Willis.
The unit should be up for bid for private ownership with aide of both governmment and public funding to help in times of upgrading technology and to help it run as often as needed. There is no reason that Arecibo shouldn't be pointed at our skies every night of every year with the necessary personnel on hand to manage and maintain it.
If the telescope is in need of updating, what sort of updates are necessary in order to make it as advanced and as powerful as it needs to be, or can be? How much will that cost the investor or the public, by either donation or funding derived from taxpayers? 10.5 Million people simply donating $1 would be enough to keep the current budget floating. Add that to my tax form and I'll definitely check 'yes'.
It's used for SETI research. Personally, I think it would be a detriment to us all to lose the funding that would allow for the operation and scanning of our skies for intelligent life other than ours. I think the level of importance carries the same weight as many other current global issues and should be allowed to remain functioning with what ever it needs to in order to gain a more full understanding of the universe around us.
If I was uncontrollably pulled by gravity across the street, I probably wouldn't look both ways. My time would be better spent thinking of happy things than "OH MY GOD I'M GOING TO DIE!!!"
It is a lot easier to achieve cost overruns that the government will pay for if you don't have a history of operating costs! New projects/new facilities are the way to get more money. The game is simple; your status in the government is measured on how much you overrun your budget - the more the better.
If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?
Not all meteors nee asteroid are earth-destroying. Some of them are just earth-messing-up-a-lot. If you know when (and where) it's going to hit, you can plan your day to either avoid those parts of the world or specifically be in the projected impact zone.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
If you are looking for where we are bleeding the most don't look at defense look at entitlements...
Entitlement spending 56%
- Social Security 21%
- Income Security Programs 13%
- Health 10%
- Medicare 12%
Defense spending 21%
I believe the constitution talks about providing for the common defense... I don't find health care, social security, or income security in there...
OR
buy the mother in law a surprise vacation.
Quit with the political spin.
Re: the first link to military expenditures... You cannot remotely call the entire $73.2 Billion dollar military research budget a science budget. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Next, the NASA budget is relatively small, but is mostly directed at applied science at the expense of basic science and all of the budget increases have been targeted towards sending men to Mars. Finally the UN budget is only a small portion of what we should be giving and it should be noted that we are grossly overdue in our payments.
To put things in perspective, the NIH which generates most of the funded biomedical research in this country has a budget of $29.8 Billion or 5.6% of the total military budget and even the military "research" budget outpaces the NIH budget by over 2Xs. So, where do you think we are putting our priorities?
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
How will this affect the operation of GoldenEye?
While I think welfare definitely needs work, those parts could arguably be found right here:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
An operating system should be like a light switch... simple, effective, easy to use, and designed for everyone.
The funding was cut because its own community of researchers no longer considers it to be very important. Specifically a panel of experts was tasked to prioritize expenditures in radio astronomy. IIRC, Arecibo was ranked approximately fourth.
/. would lead to more money coming into their field. I, personally, have no sympathy for such tactics. When I was in the government, I suspect that experts may have tried that on me once or twice. I never caved.
There are more cost-effective solutions, such as very long baselines and antenna arrays. Those have advantages like being able to resolve smaller angles.
The radio astronomers might have been playing a Washington-monument game. (The legend is that Congress threatened to cut the Parks budget, so the NPS threatened to close the Washington Monument.) That is, they hoped that the public outcry that has, in fact, occurred on
Good science requires ruthlessness. The idea that any particular icon or business is too big or too famous to fail has been very bad for the economy and would hurt the US scientifically.
TROLL rated comment.
/., it clouds intelligent discussion and the same people abuse the moderation system to take out their petty hatred of one side or the other, regardless of the poster's position. In essence, dare not point out the truth when a more /. (Read:PC) item can be blamed.
But can ANY OF YOU honestly say that if Iraq wasn't occurring (which btw I think has gone far too long) that the budget issue faced here wouldn't still be present?
Face it, the government budget process is all about buying votes and paying off political donors through whatever method that they can do it.
This project is probably not getting funding because
a. Its not in a voting member's domain
b. Its not flashy
c. Its not in the news enough to interest people
It certainly isn't being sidelined because of Iraq. In fact the NSF keeps getting bigger budgets year after year!
Why not ask, what EARMARK can be converted to real science instead of building memorials to living Congressmen!
What is so sad is the damn partisan hate on places like
If you want science like this continue don't raise Iraq with your Congressmen, instead raise the issue of America falling behind in science. Write your Congressmen today (I wrote both of my Senators and provided the link to the article). If you do not know your Congressmen then use WIKIPEDIA to find them!
Look, we aren't going to save valid science expenditures by going on about Iraq, fact is most of Congress doesn't really care anymore about Iraq and will write you off as just a whiner. Instead PROMOTE it on its own merits. That is how we can advance the cause of science. Get your friends to write. Congressmen react to many people showing concern over what may be an item they never heard of. The amount of money needed that most can slip it in on any old bill.
I am sure there are many science friendly Congressmen, it needs to be brought to their attention as well.
Yes Iraq sucks and its eating billions, but to blame it for every little project that is favored here and elsewhere is to ignore the way Congress works. They are buying votes with your tax dollars, Iraq offends many of them because it deprives them of billions to spend - not just because its wrong. Show Congress that this is a concern! Otherwise you will be left with taking out your hatred for others on message boards and getting nothing done
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Thanks for the idea. I'm going to go look right now to see if there is a fund set up for donations to keep Arecibo open, and if there is, I'll check my bank balance to see if a donation is in the budget.
Meanwhile, you just keep whining about "the scientists" and how awful it is that a fraction of a percent of your tax money is used to fund research.
Of course, this means that if there ever is an asteroid headed our way, and we have a spaceship ready to evacuate us, you don't get a seat. You can just sit there with your slightly lower taxes and wait to become a crater.
"Oh boy! Are we going to try something dangerous?"
http://www.alumni.cornell.edu/endowment.cfm
Cornell's endowment as of June 30, 2006 was $4.3 billion.
With that fund size they can make up the missing $2M for 2000+ years.
As usual, astronomy makes all the headlines, but 50% of the observing time is devoted to ionospheric research. I have published scientific papers analyzing ionospheric data from Arecibo. I have also visited Arecibo at NSF's expense, and have been on top of the gondola (the transmitter/receiver boom suspended over the radar dish). What a view!
Cutting funding for Arecibo would be quite a blow to ionospheric & magnetospheric physics research, as well as to astronomy.
Richard Link, Ph.D.
promote the general welfare
That is the key right there. We should be trying to promote general welfare, not give general welfare.
Yep, this sucks, but at least the money is being used on important stuff, like making sure Bush and Cheney don't go homeless. And to make sure we can keep spending 80 billion a year on Iraq. And spending more than 5 billion a year to fund Haliburton in Iraq (without any government auditing). I mean, really, who cares about science when TERRORISTS ARE OUT TO GET US!!!!
I'd like to point out that the Recommendations are usually made by Scientists and Researchers that come from outside NSF. NSF works by inviting University/College experts to come to Arlington, sit down and talk about what should be done, then a recommendation is drawn up. In the end NSF still decides what to do but don't think that the recommendation was drawn up by a bunch of green eye shades accountants or government bureaucrats.
... I'd prefer NOT to know about it than to know about it.
I don't know about you, but I'd like to know what day is not a good one to visit the beach... And any place that isn't 10 meters about sea level.
Secondly, if I'm going to die why not tell me at least 6 weeks before hand so I won't feel stupid about not quitting my job sooner.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
"Yes, technically it is 'used' by everyone, so everyone should pay for it. But in reality only the scientists have any direct access to it, and we have to hope what they are doing is worthwhile.
Instead of funding the telescope, how about we fund the scientists that are doing things we want done, and THEY use their funding to rent the 'scope, funding it via projects that people find worthwhile."
That Is kind of how it is done. But you can not fund a facility 100% off the programs that use it. There are certain fixed costs and if they can know with certainty a budget they can actually lower those fixed costs. As a very mundain example if you run a university and you know you will be needed 6,000 rolls of toilet paper per year and you know you can pay for it you can order at great discount. But with only project to project rentals you end up buying toilet paper at 4X the cost one package at a time at the local market. This is just a silly example but in general, long term funding allows you to plan things like maintainance in a way that is cost effective.
Most facities like this get some longer term funding to pay for "infrastructure" and them on top of this the users do pay for time. But what is being cut here is the "infrastructure".
Suprising HRC hasn't caught on to it yet, with the amount of effort she put into shutting down the Vieques traning site there in Puerto Rico a few years ago...
I got a buddy in academia, oceanography to be specific. In the last 5 years, he's seen the funding for his projects go from $10M to about $200K. And those projects had been tagged by the NSF as very important, so they weren't just boondoggles. Iraq has got everything to do with it. Funding for all the non-defense related sciences has dried up.
You mean like contracts for the American Military Industrial Complex?
Do You Experiment?
Extraterrestrial life has already come and is among us in many forms. Governments know this, most people suspect this, many simply don't know/care. Life is everywhere throughout the universe. They don't use radio frequency to communicate, they can travel instantly wherever they need/want to go. Radio frequency is actually infinitely slower than dialup would be compared to DSL/Cable. There is a natural hierarchy amongst space traveling creatures based on research and spirituality, not on control or power. Many species have actually come from other universes completed or nearing completion. I would however recommend watching the movies Zeitgeist and Endgame, in that order before venturing. Then observe Bringers of the Dawn to help calm you and regain your posture. Following that, do some good research on the Sumerians, then blast away with Jim Sparks for a taste of the now and William Cooper for a history lesson and accurate record keeping. All the while enjoying the technology that has come from these generous creatures. Anywhere in between, feel free to drop by and scan the Bob Lazar collections for some clues to their propulsions. All this on Google Video or YouTube o-course.
Love
Me
"What if I said I could get Drumlin to agree to sell you time in New Mexico?"
and....one day, they will discover a strange sound which they decode
into a full alien spacecraft.
I am a physicist and I agree, though I wish more people could appreciate knowledge for its own sake. I also find it interesting that you group physics and astronomy. What's your specialty? My list would've looked a little different; I wonder what information is contained in the way people group things in lists?
"[a]n outcry" ... but not by the taxpayers. Anyway, if you see the asteroid coming the anticipation is a lot worse.
And on a related note--you know all those GPSs and all the other tech that is being used in the war? Very little of it would exist if it weren't for scientists and the space program. So c'mon, Uncle Sam--throw'em a bone. Just pull out of Iraq 90 minutes early and you'll break even.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Just a bit of a warning for those of you who want to see the actual Arecibo location for yourself: the giant radio telescope dish is not the gleaming, shiny, spotless disc we've seen in photos (and the movie Contact). It's actually dirty, stained and tarnished, and littered with debris from the surrounding landscape. This in no way subtracts from its importance or the fact that its funding is needed...but don't get your hopes up too high if you actually go to visit the place yourselves.
The Arecibo Observatory now has a "Contribute site" online. Anyone wishing to make a donation can go to http://www.arecibo-observatory.org/
The Arecibo Observatory is administered by Cornell University, a non-profit organization. All contributions are federally recognized as tax deductible per section 501(c)(3) of the IRS code. Please spread the word!!!
Well, if that would make you happy ... I'd just as soon you took a bullet to the head right now and had a goddamn orgasm.