Slashdot Mirror
EA Says 'Next-Gen' Is 'Now-Gen'
Via GamesRadar, a Reuters report noting that the 'next generation' consoles are now more-or-less broken in. Sales for the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, and Wii have transitioned to the point where software sales are going to be well worth the effort for development houses. "'[Black] Friday marked one of those points where you can say something's changed," [EA CEO Riccitiello] said. 'Around the world, based on the data I've got, it was pretty clear that the transition is now over. Key to that was Sony Corp's recent price cut for its PlayStation 3, which should ensure the struggling console hits the company's fiscal-year sales target of 11 million units.'"
And so the number of sales is indicative how? I'd say that when you've got three consoles that were sold out immediately after release, you've made the transition. The market may not have been able to accomodate the demand, but three consecutive sell-outs - especially when followed continuously by extremely strong sales for the Wii and 360 - indicates that the transition to next-gen has been made. I mean, two years to decide that developing for the 360 is a good idea?
I just got a PS1 and I'm as mad as hell over this announcement.
Part of the hardcore faithful who believed in Apple long before it was cool again to do so
Does this mark the end of EA Sports games on the PS2 and other "Last-Gen" consoles? Madden NFL 2008, for example, seems to have been released on practically every console, as well as Windows and OS X. I think I've seen a few other new PS2 titles from other publishers too. When will these consoles cease to be worth developing for?
Bear with me for a little while here.
Sony's target is to ship 11 million PS3s during this fiscal year (April 2007 - March 2008). In the first half of the year (April - September) they shipped 2 million PS3s. Even with increased holiday sales, 9 million in the remaining 6 months is absolutely crazy - it's actually similar to Wii sales.
Let's look at it another way:
In the previous fiscal year, Sony shipped 3.6 million PS3s. 11 + 3.6 = 14.6. 14.6 million PS3s shipped by the 31st of March 2008, which means around 14 million sold to consumers. According to vgchartz (which may be a little off but for the purposes of this discussion is more than accurate enough), the PS3 is at 6.36 million sold (to consumers) as of the 25th of November. 14 - 6.36 = 7.64 PS3s that they need to sell in 4 months... That's 1.91 million PS3s per month, which is more than current Wii levels of production (1.8 million according to Nintendo themselves).
EA is delusional, and Sony won't hit their target. In fact, they'll probably reduce their forecast in the next quarterly report (out in January). Otherwise, massive egg will be on their faces when they do their fiscal year report in April.
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
He thinks the Wii's sales will start slacking off any day now, and then most of the money will be spent on games, which means him. Of course, the market for the Wii is nowhere close to saturated, and Microsoft and Sony are very far from earning back the losses they incurred upon selling the hardware.
So the last gen was the next gen, the generation before that was the superconsoles, and the next gen was going to be the HD era, but now the last gen is the old gen, the next gen is this gen, and the superconsoles are retro? Where does that put retro?
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
ok, playing fanboy for a second, you list the cheapest wii available at 565 to make the 360's price look good.
Why not also mention that the 360 has the best warranty? Why not mention why (hint, red rings for the holidays)?
If not for Nintendo's amazing understanding of their audience the WII would not be able to compete, graphically, computationally its inferior, but that doesn't matter, its fun.
The XBOX360 would be a great system if not for the continual doubt as to the longevity of the hardware and the perpetual noise, also, Microsoft should be including a HDDVD-Rom capable drive in the mid and high end versions, it would be cheaper than that damned external $200 dollar optional 'player' and it would turn the box into the media center that Microsoft so desperately desires.
Sony should drop their bottom pricepoint to $300 but really, looking at the hardware specs and cost I don't see how.
and yeah, I own a PS3; when I find a WII in stock I suspect I will own one of those as well, the only thing on the 360 that I find attractive is the Halo franchise but it isn't enough to make me drop coin.
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
So what we have now is as good as it is going to get for the next five to ten years? That's unfortunate. That's where the PC gaming will always be superior. PCs were already outperforming consoles by the time the newest gen of consoles were released. And while my console systems will be performing about the same in five or ten years as they were last year, my PC will be performing perhaps twice as well next year as it is this year.
Console gaming companies need to come out with a different model. These are videogame systems; not car stereos toasters. Perhaps they need to introduce some sort of leasing model where gamers lease the consoles and then they come out with a more advanced console (or upgrade the current ones) after a year or two. It obviously isn't reasonable to release a $500 console every other year because gamers won't spend $500 every year (per gaming system) just for the hardware.
I really have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that a gaming system that provides essentially the same experience and quality is sufficient for five or ten years. I mean, think about it -- would you want to have been gaming in 2000 on a rig that was built in 1995 or even 1990?!
The federal government has now concluded that "Yesterday's tomorrow is now today's today!"
That's what I call pretty low standards, then. Judging from the looks of the new Need For Speed: ProStreet they still seem to think that shoving unfinished games down our throats is next-gen, too. Even IGN gave it just a 6.8. Sorry, but EA would be the last publisher on whose opinion I'd give a crap. Period.
Anecdotal evidence is meaningless. People need to stop mentioning it on Slashdot.
Don't worry. It will.
Microsoft admitted to it... every console out "now" (at the time of the statement) had the potential to go T.U. Do you think they added a 3 year warranty _FREE_ for the RRoD issue (only) out of the goodness of their pea-pickin' hearts? That's RECALL protection... Unfortunately for them, it's still not _class_action_ protection.
Anything over 10% is a problem... so people need to stop defending Microsoft for uber craptacular harwdare. (And yes, I own one... it's a nice console.. when it works.) They may have designed a good console... they MANUFACTURED a shitty one.
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Yes a -1 fanboy moderation would be brilliant just like a -1 irony one would be too. He stated an opinion just because you disagree with it doesn't mean you moderate it negatively, you should reply as to why you think it's wrong. Moderating something down purely because you disagree is bad moderation.
what about superior versions of all of the games PS3
Oh in case you didn't understand the irony crack I found it ironic that an obvious flamebait post accusing someone of being a PS3 fanboy was made by a 360 fanboy.
The big key to anecdotal evidence is that your circle determines your likelihood of purchase at any one point.
I'm sure that almost 100% of his 100% purchased their systems within 1 to 2 months of each other and quite likely from the same stores (or at least from the same regional shipment). So, while 33% of *ALL* XBox360's have the problem, I would expect it to be near 100% of those shipped in the first X months, 75% of those shipped in the next X months, etc. to such as point where any being shipped now should be pretty close to 0% failure rate (never 0, but closer to 0 than 100).
I, on the other hand, am still getting by with my XBox and don't have too many friends that have invested in next gen yet (I'm thinking mid-March when retailers start trying to weasel us out of our tax refunds). So, I know of exactly 0 people that have had to have their XBox360's replaced (much less multiple times).
Layne
Well if you like Halo then you also like Gears of War. Guaranteed. Ninja Gaiden 2's not looking too bad, either, but it's probably a year away from release. Another good argument for the 360 is a better controller for the cross-platform titles, I suppose. Oh and now there's Mass Effect.
:-/
So, the 360 has its share of good exclusives. I'm actually waiting until some good ones come out for PS3. Ratchet and Clank is cool but I need something more memorable like FFXIII before I really consider getting one.
And yes also kinda looking around for a Wii, will get one when I see it
I like basketball!!1!
Come to dekalb IL, the walmart supercenter here had 3 on shelf when I was grocery shopping there on saturday.
Ain't anecdotal evidence great? I know at least 10 people with Xbox 360's, and not one of them have had to have it replaced. It's no secret that the 360 has comparatively high failure rates, but 33%? Please link to the publication where you got that number, otherwise you're just spreading FUD.
Look, I have a 360, I like it a lot, and I'm by most standards I'm a 360 fan. But really, those numbers are just BS.
The $280 Xbox 360 is so badly crippled it might as well not exist. It's a damned shame MS sells it at all. The cheapest Xbox 360 that even guarantees an acceptable gaming experience is the $400 one. Without a hard drive your Xbox is useless.
So really it boils down to... $400 vs. $400 vs. $250. Like it or not the PS3 is now very solid competition for the 360 price-wise. Now if only Sony can get some exclusives worth a damn that doesn't start with "F" and end in "antasy".
The Wii or the 360?
They're still banking on the hope that hardware prices will continue to fall, especially the price for Blu-Ray players. If Blu-Ray wins the format war, we might see a $300 PS3.
Both Halo and Gears of War have gotten PC ports though, there are many rumors floating around about Mass Effect as well. This is actually a major point for me and one of the reasons the 360 is the "now-gen" console I'm least interested in. Excellent Xbox 360 games will likely be ported over to PC, so I'll just play them there.
here is some more and yet more.
They do have a small base to draw their numbers from. However the 1.3 bil they allocated for RROD warranty replacement is enough to replace 1/3 of all 360's out there if the replacement cost is retail. More if it isn't. So the figure seems to make sense if the failure rate is close to 33%.
There seems to be a consistent number offered by at least 3 independent sources (many of the articles quote from each other). This estimate conforms with the money allocated. thus it's reasonable to assume the number is a fair estimate.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Perhaps because the 360 doesn't have the best warranty; the Wii has the best warranty (15 months if you register). Microsoft only offer the extension specifically for the red ring of death, the warranty for the whole device is 12 months.
Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
Yeah the whole console vs PC argument is lost on me because I enjoy playing split-screen multiplayer games a lot (usually with my bro), and a controller across from a TV just feels better to me than sitting at a computer. Now, I'm a big PC gamer as well and the Elder Scrolls games on PC are some of my favorite, but if I had to choose to give up PC or console, I'd give up PC.
So basically, split-screen co-op for Halo and Gears is enough for me to not give a hoot about the PC versions.
Some 360 games will not be ported to 360, though, such as Ninja Gaiden 2. Also, you usually have to wait a LONG time for the other franchises. I mean, Halo 2 came out for PC just a little bit before Halo 3 hit shelves for the 360. You end up being a couple of years behind! By the way that also is something one can say to counter the "PCs have superior hardware" argument (among many other things).
I like basketball!!1!
My anecdotal tally is that they have over 100% failure rate over the course of a year. This is from a poll of about 35 people who have collectively gone through more than 50 x360s, with some individuals going through 3-4.
The X360 has awesome games, but it also has the life expectancy of a Ferrari Enzo in the hands of a coke snorting CEO.
This is where I get my recommended daily allowance of "Foot in Mouth."
A big problem that people have with these comments is that the new games being released for the PS3 and Xbox 360 really are not so much better than what could be done on the previous generation of consoles.
Are PS3 and Xbox 360 games really THAT much better than the stuff for the Xbox and PS2? Graphics may be a bit better, but if you exclude the "HD" factor due to most people not having a screen that can do 1080p, then what is better about the new titles?
That is the key, when there is a substantial improvement in overall gameplay compared to previous generation machines. An advantage to the PC as a platform is that the idea of next generation is foolish because faster processors and more advanced video cards are released every three to six months. As a result, game companies are forced to aim at what will be available in 3-5 years, not at what is available currently. You want cutting edge, you get it from a PC game.
FYI the 360 Premium (with HDD) is $350, not $400.
But honestly, and here's where you really failed - my point was that your anecdotal evidence has no fucking place in any discussion. The fact that you said "informally" only underlines the fact that you already understood that your anecdotal evidence was completely fucking worthless but still chose to bring it up. That means you're not a moron but instead, just an asshole. Too bad, I would have liked you better if you were a moron. Now fuck off and die, asshole.
whoah...
Tom? Is that really you? Dad?!?
Of Code And Men
Your anecdotal evidence served no point in this discussion. It had no place here.
I may have resorted to personal attacks but at least I had content to go along with those attacks. You just launched a personal attack against me with no discussion of the valid points I raised.
Since we've previously established that you're not a moron, it appears you realize that you are beat but still want the last word. Sorry asshole, you lost. Shut the fuck up.
The $280 Xbox 360 is so badly crippled it might as well not exist.
Actually, it's a shame it *does* exist.
Game developers have to target the *lowest common denominator.* That means they have to target the non-HDD 360. That meanst they can't count on streaming game data, or anything else. So, the non-HDD version not only is crippled itself, but it cripples the potential of the games themselves.
Same thing with the lack of HD-DVD. Game data is at the point where it fills a DVD to capacity. Game developers have to over-compress textures, reduce level complexity, reduce the amount of cinematic content, and whatnot. (Yes, this is already happening. Check out comments by some of the Unreal Tournament 3 devs.)
I think this is the 360's biggest weakness. It gives Microsoft an early advantage, but as you pointed out, the price advantage is essentially gone. Now we'll see if the early lead is enough to overcome the technical deficiencies in their most-crippled console.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Seriously - your anecdotal evidence had no place in the discussion. It is meaningless and caters to the weak-minded. The fact that you knew it was worthless only underlines the fact that you were being intellectually dishonest in bringing it up.
Failures tend to group together.
Which explains most internet forum userbases.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
The 400$ one is 350$ now AFAIK.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Crippled for you maybe but not for its TARGET AUDIENCE. That's like saying the Wii's hardware is so cripled compared to the 360 and PS3 that it's not even worth mentioning.
The Wii is 'living proof' that not everybody needs the uber-edition and just wants to play a simple game. The new 360 "arcade" is an excellent option for a large portion of the population.
There are almost no supply limitations right now. IF nobody was buying the Arcade edition, Microsoft would stop selling it. The fact that it still exists is proof that there are people buying it.
If lack of a hard drive makes the $280 360 an "unacceptable gaming experience" then lack of backwards compatibility has to put the $400 PS3 on the same level. The PS3 simply does not have a large enough game library to compete without access to the *extremely* extensive PS2 library (not to mention that of the many many great PS2 games, most are now being discounted as "last-gen" games).
None of the articles you reference provide any direct evidence. Even PCW says "Anecdotal evidence suggests the Xbox 360 failure rate may be as high as one of every three machines according to retailers." Not "EB COO states return rate was 2.9m consoles", but "Anecdotal evidence" from and EB "Employee". Your evidence is pretty paltry.
I do find it interesting, however, that the source of these stories will happily sell you a warranty for it.
Note the word estimates in the original post, also note when I referred to a EB/gamestop I did not specify it was in the original post. The 30-33% estimates come from several retail insiders not just one. here are some links:
here
here
some here
and here.
An Analysis.
It is accepted that the true failure rates is greater then the 3-5% MS publicly claimed. It's estimated to be ~33%, many pundits from many media agencies accept that is a reasonable estimate given the evidence. There was such a flurry of media attention on it I was surprised you had "missed it", the media flurry.
As for my anecdote, I assume anyone who isn't new to slashdot will take any anecdote with a grain of salt. As your lack of machine failure represents a data point of 1 case, while my anecdote of 100% machine failure represents a data point of 15 cases. This is 16 data points/11 million possible; non-random/self selected data points. I prefaced it with a verbal warning.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I do find it interesting, however, that the source of these stories will happily sell you a warranty for it. Direct evidence would be MS releasing Data. However they have declined to do so. Thus we are left with anecdotal, deductive, inductive, self-selected poll results, and retailer insiders. As well there is more then EB/gamestop/best buy, a former 360 repair contractor (not a single person but the company) gave some fairly negative press on high fail rates of repaired units. With such a large cross section it confirms at the very least that the 3-5% "within industry standard fail rates" is unlikely to be true..
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Why are consoles "next gen". Why isn't a real computer with standardized hardware that everyone can write software for "next gen". Why are we still living in the backwater of the disposable $500 computer for games?
The console is valuable, not because it's powerful (they're not). It's valuable because it presents a stable target for developers to write games for. They only have to support one (or a limited number of very similar) graphics subsystems. They get a known set of controller types that everyone will have at least a simple version of. Overall, it's a stable way to write games. It's also valuable because the vendor of the platform markets your games for you (to an extent) because they make money from them too.
So why hasn't someone specified a PC into the ground, making deals with a graphics vendor, motherboard vendor, etc. to produce a set of hardware to a specific set of specs and then started partner with game authors to produce games for it? I don't even know of a console that comes stock with a keyboard yet, much less makes it easy to do any ordinary task like add up numbers (a computer that can't be used to compute... what an idea).
Why are consoles the "next gen" again?!
And if EA keeps releasing games like that P.O.S. NASCAR whatever (2007, methinks), next-gen consoles intriguingly start looking like last-gen consoles. I wonder, does an assessment by a game company that doesn't even _try_ to keep up with current tech (compare all the disasters EA released as half-assed PS3 ports of 360 games) have any value to anyone?
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
The point is that your great evidence had no place in the discussion.
Sorry to go all anal here, but no, the very design of their console is flawed, which MS even admitted to explicitly, it is exactly NOT a manufacturing problem. The duct tape fix for the moment is putting in more metal and (supposedly) more fans (and noise?) to keep the motherboard from bending out of shape. Even the boxes currently being built suffer from the same fatal flaw, just with a somewhat reduced melt-down probability.
If that is enough for you, buy a 360. Those who already own one, keep praying it doesn't die on you the evening you invited your friends over for a gaming session.
Let me fix the subject for you to a completely serious: Yeah, keep trying, Microsoft. And by the way, Wiis are nowhere near sold out here in Europe, they are collecting dust on shelves (well, for a few days each, at least).
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
The point is that your great evidence had no place in the discussion. Find a forum where no one gives anecdotes. post there. I doubt you will find a front page thread on slashdot, where for all post there does not exist an anecdote. The purpose of an anecdote it to convey personal experience and opinion. Which is a large part of slashdot. You can really make as much noise as you want but expletives and pejoratives does not make one right.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
I just paid 100 bucks to get my xbox 360 repaired for malfunctioning video (no picture or distorted with blue bands). The warranty doesn't extend for me because the red lights aren't showing. I've never had a console malfunction before and I'll avoid future xbox's as long as they don't kill sony this generation.
I admittedly only know around 5 people with 360s, and the only thing we all have in common is that we really dig our 360s. Sorry you're so worried, because this is a pretty nice console. I understand there is a problem with their reliability, but so far none of us have been bitten. If I am... then I'm short a 360 for a few weeks. Not a big deal - you're short a 360 52-weeks a year! Don't you miss playing all the good games?
Jeremy
Fuck you. Really you are a twit.
The odds of 15 failures given a 5% failure rate and random distirbution:
1:3.2768 × 10^19
Odds if it is 33% failure rate:
1:14 348 907
Thus the anecdotes implies it is an order of magnitute more likely the failure rate is 33% then 5%.
Given that all examples have been from a particular city in Canada and neighboring burbs you might say it's simply a bad batch. However they are temporally disconnected and came from several vendors. As well the stats for competing systems aren't as bad. For the wii out of the 13 people i know with one only 1 had failed (mine: defective optical drive out of the box), of the PS3 owners 0/6 have advised me their machine has failed. For the Ps2 3/28 have failed, 1 because it fell off the shelf. Xbox1 owners are 0/12, GC owners are 0/5. All in all we can rule out usage patterns or some weird local phenomenon. Thus we must conclude it's likely higher then 5%.
As well previously there was a slashdot story of a seven dead 360's. Statistically that is
1:1 280 000 000 chance if 5% failure rate or
1:2 187 if it's 33%. Assuming random distribution. Considering the guy has a well documented case you can't accuse him of lying. Sometimes that is the purpose. Other times it is for assholes to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt without having real evidence. In this case, it sure as fuck isn't the former. I sense a over investment into a consumer retail product. Was there an offer to give you a penis (clearly you are lacking) if you stuck up for the gaming division of microsoft in an asinine manner? Since 33% is a widespread, well supported, and widely believed figure for which all evidence suggests is true or close then no in fact it's not simply FUD you little shill. Anecdotal evidence had no place in the discussion. There is nothing you can say about me as a person that will change that fact. You were in the wrong to mention it. Anecdotes are very much parts of discussion. If true, they represent self selected non-random datapoints which are something, not as good as 10,000 datapoints but no worse then the opinion of one coprolalia addled Slashdotter. so really you can take your self righteousness and go dig for evidence contravening my assertion.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Agreed. By removing the backwords compatibility chips, Sony released a system that plays the fewest amount of games on the market, and that definately would say sales.
If MS admits a design flaw, it's gotta be to keep heat off their mounting reliability issues in general... (I can't confirm this... I should google it...) because if they admit it's a manufacturing defect, we'd get a nice recall notice in the mail. ;) The folks in Redmond are jumping through their own assholes to prevent that from happening... (hence the $1 billion... BILLION, kids, write off of _extending_ the warranty to 3 years _for_ the 3 Red Rings...) But if it truly is a design flaw, nothing will fix it this generation... and they're just hoping no one finds out until the Xbox 720... which at the rate my MS consoles have failed on me (and _NO_ other has since the SNES) I'm not getting on that bandwagon... period. They've lost me as a customer, as far as decent equipment goes (I don't buy their OSes... so piss of Ballmer.)
;) I admit it.. I got suckered. Considering the only console that isn't still working from last gen (and I got a launch PS2) is my XBox. ;) Imagine that. Fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, I'm an idiot. :P
:(
The review units, iirc (according to apologists and anonymous, unconfirmed sources...) had a beefier heat pipe and other niceties that MS removed from production models as a cost-saving measure. Granted, it's anecdotal, and probably a load of shit, but I imagine they didn't spare any expense at keeping a review unit, pre-production unit, or demo unit from crapping all over itself, a-la the "Plug-and-Pray" demo of Win 95.)
A piss-poor decision to go with craptacular heatsinks is just those greedy bastards in Redmond trying to stop the bleeding of a -$4 billion/year division... I don't believe if they had spent the extra $5 per unit on a decent friggin' heat sink/pipe combo we'd be talking about how shoddy the units are. I can say my new 360 with the revamped heatpipe/sink is performing much better (plus I got HDMI... pity the poor sod who got my old console, though...) but I'm not putting much stock in it lasting... once it goes... I sell off the games and tell Microsoft where they can shove their POS console... (right next to their OS, in my case.)
To me, I liken it still to a manufacturing problem. Maybe I'm just trying to justify the $359 I spent on the fucking thing. Inadequate heat-sink and dissipation on the GPU (which is the cause of the 3 RRoD) coupled with undue stress when the expanding heated environment literally yanks the thing off its screws (so to speak) is merely MS saving a couple of bucks per console... otherwise I'm more pissed at them than normal.
They have tried to change the design to return to the original idea of, oh, I dunno, keeping the damn GPU cool... and beefed it up... without changing how the console was designed that I can tell...
Just to piss off a few more in the cheap-seats: Look at the PS3... it's well-engineered, much to the chagrin of the fanbois... and it's a tank. Sorry, you can't do Folding@Home on a 360... it'd jump off your desk into the trash if you tried. Not to mention the other design decisions that make it a rather nice console... too bad no one notices.
The Falcons everyone so desires are merely a smaller CPU measurement... _not_ the GPU (which is the culprit to begin with....) So big whoop. It probably will keel over and die too.. This _has_ to be losing them mindshare and goodwill... because if not, God help us all... we're truly fucking sheep and whatever that bastard company shoves down our throats we take without gagging.
Man, I need a beer...
It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
Target audience? It's hard to imagine a target audience that wouldn't want to save their games or occasionally participate in downloading some light wares (even a couple XBLA games!) off of MS's vaunted (and IMO justifiably so) network.
There's no doubt in my mind that the continued existence of the Core version of the system is nothing but a marketing gimmick by MS, so that they can continued to trot out the horrible crap that is "look, for $20 more you can buy a 360 instead of a Wii! And look how much cheaper we are compared to PS3!".
All it will create is ill will towards the product and the brand. When Joe parent brings home the Core system, thinking he's saved himself $120 without knowing the difference, he will only find out later that without the hard drive the system is absolutely crippled. It's limited to really only playing the games, and saving a FEW savegames onto that 64MB memory card (sold separately!) before it, too, will run out of space. Or heck, how about patches? I recently ran into the "duplicate players" bug in Assassin's Creed, and I'm still waiting on a patch to fix it. As unfortunate as it is that the problem even exists, any players without a large enough storage device to download patches for his games is totally SOL.
Being a 360 fan, and loving the games on the system, I would like to think that the Core has a significant audience out there. But I really do not believe that to be the case. Imagine the PS3 without a hard drive and that's the 360 Core system. Not to mention it hampers developer efforts, since HDD can never really be required. Patching games? Nope. Changing game balance in a patch? Nope. Adding new content like maps, weapons, and player models? Nope, can't do that either.
I agree that it was a dumb move for Sony to remove back compat from the PS3, but in my mind that's nowhere near as bad a fuckup as failing to include a hard drive as standard in the 360. On the one hand it's "you cannot play PS2 games on your shiny new PS3, which has no games!", on the other it's "you can't save more than 10 savegames on this piece of crap, and forget about mandatory patches to play multiplayer!"... One is clearly a lot more critical of an issue than the other.
In 12 months, the Wii will be 'living proof' that the Wii isn't a viable platform without mass storage. We may not need to wait 12 months. 8 weeks may be enough.
Nintendo got a lot of things right, but shipping a console without multiple gigabytes of storage in the post-Original XBox world is just plain inexcusable. You're going to see one of two things: Nintendo will allow downloaded content to be played off peripheral storage, or the Wii wii turn out to be a fad that passes as quickly as it arrived. The system (yes, I have one from release day) is already suffering in the downloadable content department since the low-hanging fruit in the virtual console space has been harvested. They could get back on track with downloadable Wii games, but the storage capacity just isn't there. The fact of the matter is that if it weren't for the price difference, the PS3 would be the superior casual-games machine at this point just because of the PSN content. The downloadable PS3 games (with motion control) are selling for 1/3rd what disc based Wii games are selling for, and quite frankly are more innovative than the series of Wii-hashes that Nintendo has been pumping out.
(Incidentally, I am seriously *not* trying to be a troll with this comment, though I'm fairly sure that's how it will be taken. Feel free to accuse me of being a Nintendo "hater". I'm used to it from all the times I'm a "Sony hater" when I say bad things about the PSP or PS3, or a "M$ hater" when I say bad stuff about the 360. It may be your handle, but at the moment I am "that one guy" who doesn't think the Wii is the second coming... Just like I was "that one guy" who was saying the lack of HD wasn't a big deal for the Wii and that it was going to sell like crazy back before it came out...)
The thing about PC is that if you really wanted to, you could split-screen it and play it on a controller as well, with enhanced graphics, it is just infinitely more configurable than a console (barring hardcore console modifications).
I wouldn't be as harsh as to say the upcoming Wii games are rehashes. Perhaps not entirely original, sequels yes, but they're still great fun to play and there's nothing wrong with that.
I do agree though. Sony missed the online boat last gen, while MS dominated it (and still is). Online connectivity is turning out to be *the* hot product in console gaming, and while Sony is making a good effort (but not nearly good enough), it would seem Nintendo isn't even trying.
Nintendo needs to get on this boat. The Wii weather channel and Wii Opera aren't enough, not by a long shot. By the end of this gen I dare say the PSN will be at least a somewhat respectable gaming network, Xbox Live will still reign king, and it's up to Nintendo to decide if they will be competitive in that sector or be left in the dust, to suffer in the next generation.
True, true, but it's such a hassle and I don't have a large enough monitor to make it worthwhile (22"). On the other hand I have a big HDTV making each half of a split screen 2x the size of my monitor. PCs are indeed more configurable, no doubt, but the kinds of games I enjoy most really are more at home on console (Marios, Zeldas, action games like Ninja Gaiden, etc.)... besides Elder Scrolls and Baldur's Gate and I guess Fallout. PC RPGs are fantastic.
I like basketball!!1!
Did I say Core? Is there even such a thing for sale anymore? No. I said the Xbox 360 Arcade.
"REDMOND, Wash. -- Oct. 22, 2007 -- Just in time for holiday, Microsoft Corp. today released a new Xbox 360® console that delivers games and content to everyone in the family for an incredible value of $279.99 (U.S. estimated retail price)*. Available in stores beginning today, Xbox 360 Arcade console is the first Xbox 360 console to include five family-friendly games, a wireless controller, a high-definition multimedia interface (HDMI) connection to enable high-definition output if desired and 256 MB of memory useful for storing games and entertainment content. At $279.99, the Xbox 360 Arcade console will include five best-selling games: "PAC-MAN Championship Edition" (NAMCO BANDAI Games America Inc.), "Uno" (Carbonated Games), "Luxor 2" (MumboJumbo), "Boom Boom Rocket" (Electronic Arts Inc.) and "Feeding Frenzy" (Sprout Games)."
Just in case you missed the press release.
The audience for the Core was NEVER somebody who played Assassin's creed. It was for people like my mom who love playing lumen's live online.
And what is this bullshit about never adding new content? You claim to be a '360 fanboy' but apparently you've never heard of the map packs for: Halo 2, Halo 3, Gears of War, Oblivion, Guitar Hero, Worms, Lumines... I could probably name 40 games which have downloadable content and have changed the game balance.
I call bullshit on you even owning a 360. How is it that you've played a 360 and never patched a game?
Next you're going to tell me "because there was no HDD required developers couldn't do cool things like release movies and TV shows."
My mother also loves playing Uno on my 360 when she gets a chance. Does that mean she'd voluntarily go out and blow $280 on it? Highly, highly doubtful. While I don't doubt there are a few casual gamers out there who WOULD spend $280 just to play Hexic, I strongly believe that the whole product is meant to confuse with pricing, and does not fulfill any significant niche. It's yet another attempt to go "look how cheap we are!" without actually being so.
Er... You completely missed my point. Of *course* I know all about DLC. I'm saying that the XBA (and the Core that came before it), has so little memory (256MB? please) that it essentially eliminates the possibility of using downloadable content. Even the original GRAW map-pack was some 200MB by itself, and savegames for many games can take 5-6MB *each*! Anything less than a real hard drive isn't going to be very useful for the majority of Xbox owners out there.
I'm also saying the memory-starved-ness of the Arcade SKU also gets in the way of proper game patches, not to mention people who may want to play multiplayer - Xbox patches are MANDATORY for multiplay, and without room to store said patches, multiplayer = no-no.
Start reading my post instead of seeing what you want to see. At no point did I say that the lack of HDD is anything but a bad thing, basic reading comprehension helps. I'm on your side godammit. MS needs to get rid of this no-HDD SKU. $350 vs. $400 is plenty fair of a fight between the 360 and PS3, and given the 360's currently vastly superior game library, MS doesn't even really need to compete on specs, but they DO need to ship consoles that consumers can actually play on, as opposed to confusing mom and pop into buying little Johnny an Xbox 360 that they will HAVE to upgrade with a hard drive later.
For the record, I've been very disappointed in our other contenders so far this generation. PS3 can't get a good game released, nevermind being on-time, and even now a year after launch still has basically NO good exclusives, and a handful of excellent games that can also be played *everywhere else*. Likewise, besides Wii Sports and Super Mario Galaxy, there isn't too much that's compelling for the Wii. As I originally thought, the vast majority of Wii games will turn out to be "look ma, I can wave the wand around!" games with little actual gameplay value. Nintendo has been doing well with its first party offerings, and it may please the average *very light* gamer, but for someone into video games it's not a system that truly satisfies. It is, however, an awesome party system, and for that reason alone I may get one (which I suppose proves Nintendo's point, that they don't need a killer game library to make truckloads of money)
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
Microsoft has written off enough money to replace every single 360 ever sold.
I recently bought a 360, and I hope Microsoft has been able to fix the issue.
So true. Which is why the recent trend to omit split-screen gaming in favour of an online component is just bloody annoying. Here's what every (applicable - stuff like RPGs are excused) current-gen game should offer:
There are some games who do this right: Warhawk offers four-player split-screen online gaming. Halo 3 offers split-screen online gaming. There are some games who get this horribly wrong. Motorstorm does not have a split-screen mode at all. What the hell? That's as if Mario Kart got rid of the split-screen mode. Geez.
Really, if the N64 can do four-way split-screen gaming, every current-gen system should be capable of doing it for every current game. There's no excuse.
Most people couldn't possibly care less. In fact, most casual gamers I know who own Wiis have never even started the online store. They put in a disc and play that game, end of story.
You're going to see one of two things: Nintendo will allow downloaded content to be played off peripheral storageI truly hope they will. Even launching games from the SD card would be a huge boon. Also, more channel slots, please.
or the Wii wii turn out to be a fad that passes as quickly as it arrived.That's not going to happen, regardless of what Nintendo does.
The fact of the matter is that if it weren't for the price difference, the PS3 would be the superior casual-games machine at this point just because of the PSN content.What, you mean your mom would rather play PAIN or Calling all Cars than Wii Sports? Dude.
The downloadable PS3 games (with motion control) are selling for 1/3rd what disc based Wii games are selling for, and quite frankly are more innovative than the series of Wii-hashes that Nintendo has been pumping out.You must be getting different PSEye games from me, then.
Are we 100% sure they are breaking even on every unit sold?
Wouldn't it cost more to ship out an empty box with shipping label, pay for return shipping, process the return, ship out a new unit individually to a residence?
For retail there are economies of scale on the shipping, Xboxs getting delivered by the truckload to distributers then delivering truckloads of things to retail. I bet the price difference per a piece for return vs new is $50.00+, and if there is a loss being generated on each console with bets being hedged (wouldn't it be great for MS if this summer (in a slow sales month) MS could add in a 250 Million profit?) the failure rate could be a somewhat less terrible 10-15 percent.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
No, but she'd rather play Piyotama, Super-Rub-a-Dub, or Aquatica than Wii sports. Seriously.
Also, tilt control works just fine *without* a PSEye.
The split screen thing is definitely a difference, but that has to do with more of a perceived lack of demand than anything else and could easily be fixed if companies thought that the PC market wanted it. I remember playing Gears split screen when it first came out and absolutely hating it so count me out of the group of people that give a damn. It was on a widescreen TV though so maybe that made a difference - I doubt it. I own Gears on PC now and I have played it with the X360 controller on my widescreen TV so that's not really an issue.
The first party Microsoft titles are artificially delayed on the PC, but those - and the Grand Theft Auto games, which generally have massive graphical improvements on the PC - are the only ones that seem to have big lead times. If a studio is committed to the PC, you won't have to wait long and it seems like the ease of transition from the 360 to a PC makes this a fairly easy commitment to make.
Also, waiting for a game isn't that big of a deal, plus there's the fact that the great PC games will never see a console unless they are severely crippled or the console hits a new generation. I was a pure console gamer until Doom and they have never been a primary gaming platform for me since. To each their own.
Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
So when you said "The downloadable PS3 games (with motion control) are selling for 1/3rd what disc based Wii games are selling for, and quite frankly are more innovative than the series of Wii-hashes that Nintendo has been pumping out", you were talking about Super Rub-a-Dub?
You think Super Rub-a-Dub is the only game in the playstation store with tilt control?
Well, fl0w isn't really a game, and all other games I've seen and remember right now don't make use of tilting, although some use shaking.
So, what other PSN games use tilt control?
GripShift, Go! Sports Ski, Locoroco, Blast Factor, Super Rub-a-Dub, and fl0w (which unlike the web version, actually *is* a game. There's also a new expansion pack out for it).
Those are just the downloadables, and I didn't include games that use shaking... Note that every single one of those uses the tilt as a different game mechanic. It's also only about 1/3rd of the PS3 specific game content that is available for download...
It does have an SD slot, and it would really only take some licensing on their part and a firmware update to allow use of HCSD cards (which is pin compatible with SD) to allow 8 gig cards and for games to be played from them. It wasn't too long ago that full retail games were shipped in 1.5 gig mini-dvds for the Gamecube.
Wha? If we are looking solely at "Downloadable Casual games" than the 360 blows the PSN, and Wii out of the water. As stupid as it sounds, it's true. The 360 with Uno, Hearts, Catan, Texas Hold'em, Pac-man, Luxor, Bejeweled 2, etc... has a far better catalog geared to casual gamers than the Wii and PSN combined.
What $17 PSN games are based around Motion control? Which are worth playing? Each retail game I played (Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Motorstorm) that implemented motion control played like ass with it, and I was thankful to turn it off. Is there any PS3 game that has motion controls that are as sensitive and responsive as say... ExciteTruck?
This former repair contractor. You can think of no reason why they might give some fairly negative press? So let me get this straight: I have a business that repairs consoles. This is my business. Its how I make money. And there is a console which I repair, that breaks a lot. "Cha ching!!!!". Hm. But no, this company says "we don't want to repair this console anymore". Come on!
Someone might pay $50-$150 to repair a console but when the console itself has physically destroyed it's own motherboard the cost of repairs (labor and materials) now approaches the cost of replacement. The company simply could not keep up with demand nor guarantee the badly designed motherboards wouldn't break again in the near future. Given the nature of the RROD problem you can't fault the repair team, even if they restored it to factory manufactured states they'd still stand a good chance of breaking whith in a year.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Even worse is that cross-platform games are now made for the lowest common denominator. Even though every PS3 has a hard drive and blu-ray, GTA San Andreas will be made to run on the wimpiest 360 available. This is significantly slowing down progress in the next generation, particularly for the PS3.
I hate tilt control, but my wife loves it. Thus, she plays warhawk with tilt (and frees that analog stick for the turret). Me? I turn it off.
The wii tilt games get old... except wiisports, which I love, I don't like tilt on the wii either. It's an extremely good gimmic. Nintendo's true genius was giving wiisports away -its best game by far- with new systems. Imagine if every XBOX360 came with Halo, or if every PS3 game with MGS4. It would define how funt he system is, even if there wasn't enough content for a while. Nintendo did real well giving Mario away, though I bet that really hurt sales of games for a while, it paid off.
Anyway, the wii's games look like PS2 games. Technically they should look much better, but they don't. And graphics are important to every gamer. A shitty game is not fun with great graphics, but a good game is a great game if it has great graphics. I think the wii's graphics will hurt it more than people realize in a year or two, and nintendo will not make as much money as Sony in the next five years. I also don't think Microsoft will be able to beat Sony (even though the 360 is the best system). MS will try to outdo the PS3 in a year, screwing 360 owners a bit, and taking a loss on their systems.
Sony might become profitable and dominate by returning to their position of cheap and relatively weak PS3 (compared with MS's next system), but best library (if they can get some of those great games out...finally).
Sony is the most flexible system, and in a few years, could be a cheap one too.
In the article that your reference quotes, they say that the volume was 30 per week. You have confused the severity of the failure (they admit to being unable to repair them), with the volume of the failures.
Its scaremongering. They quote some figures and then at the bottom of the page say "our recent investigation shows that up to 30% may be defective", even though the evidence above doesn't support the theory.
Yeah, you're right. I didn't know GripShift and Blast Factor had tilt control, as I didn't buy them. I only played the ski game once after buying it, and promptly erased it from my mind, and the tilt control in Loco Roco is very minor, which is why I forgot it, but you're right: there are more PSN games using tilt control than I remembered.
:-)
And fl0w is still not a game (I only played the PSN version). As long as there's no score and no goal, there's no game
I'd love to play Warhawk using tilt control, but the damn Playstation controller gives me hand cramps (really, Sony, there's nothing you could find to improve in that thing in the last decade???), so I use a somewhat bigger Logitech controller which doesn't have tilt support for longer game sessions (and Warhawk typically leads to longer game sessions).
The wii tilt games get old... except wiisports, which I love, I don't like tilt on the wii either.I still love Super Monkey Ball, Wing Island and Excite Truck, among others :-)
Nintendo's true genius was giving wiisports awayI agree. Wii Sports is the number one reason why the Wii sells that well.
Imagine if every XBOX360 came with Halo, or if every PS3 game with MGS4. It would define how funt he system is, even if there wasn't enough content for a while.I think he genius of Wii Sports is that it's viral. Give anyone a Wii Remote - your kid, your spouse, your granny - and they'll figure it out and get hooked within minutes. Halo 3 or MGS4 would not do for their respective consoles what Wii Sports has done for the Wii.
Anyway, the wii's games look like PS2 games.Some do. Others look like nothing on the PS2 - Residen Evil 4 or Super Mario Galaxy blow away anything on the PS2.
And graphics are important to every gamer. A shitty game is not fun with great graphics, but a good game is a great game if it has great graphics.So Heavenly Sword should be great? I don't see it.
I think the wii's graphics will hurt it more than people realize in a year or two,I think not. I'm just playing through Indiana Jones 4, and the game is as awesome as it was the day it came out. Graphics on the Wii (and the last gen, too) have reached a level where you can do pretty much anything you want. They're good enough for 99% of all games. Super Mario Galaxy will be as great in five years as it is now, just like games like Monkey Island or Zelda: A Link to the Past have held up just fine.
and nintendo will not make as much money as Sony in the next five years.I find that extremely unlikely.
I also don't think Microsoft will be able to beat Sony (even though the 360 is the best system). MS will try to outdo the PS3 in a year, screwing 360 owners a bit, and taking a loss on their systems.Here's my prediction: As soon as sales of the Wii start to go down (maybe in half a year or a year), Nintendo will lower the price to 200 US$ and bring out Wii Sports 2. Then, they'll sell 120 million Wiis within four or five years, overtaking even the PS2.
The other two will both sell around 60 million consoles, with the PS3 possibly selling a bit more than the 360 with the release of MGS4 and the new FF.
Given that it was an extraordinary case, and happened to only one guy. I'll go with the 5%. Otherwise, using your numbers, one out of every 2000 people who bought an xbox would have to replace it 7 times.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
None. They're $9.99.
The 360's selection of causal games is only slightly larger than what the PS3 has, and that's with a 1-year head start. I don't see how you can say it "blows it out of the water".
But clearly you've never browsed the PSN catalog for PS3.
I know it's in vogue to simply dismiss or try and discredit the parent post by claiming they are a fanboy, or ignorant; though it does allow one to reply without any form of reasoned or researched response it also lends nothing to the dialog.
I check every Thursday. There simply aren't that many downloadable games for the PS3 yet, let alone casual oriented ones. According to this list. there are only 29 PSN games available in the United States as of tommorow (PixelJunk Monsters should come out tomorrow). And according to this list. there are 101 Xbox live arcade games out today .
How about this, I'll make a list of games I consider "casual games" and I'll stop when they outnumber all available games for the PSN. Will that be good enough?*
Uno
Hardwood Hearts
Hardwood Backgammon
Hardwood Spades
Texas Hold'em
Spyglass Board games
Soltrio Solitare
Tetris Splash
Word Puzzle
Zuma Deluxe
Bomberman
Geometry Wars
Caracasonne
Catan
Bankshot Billiards
Ms. Pacman
Pacman
Asteroids
Missle Command
Frogger
Galaga
Contra
Joust
Defender
Centipede/ Millipede
DigDug
Gauntlet
Golden Axe
Gyruss
Paperboy
*I stopped at 30, but if you want more games to add to the list, click on the link I provided above.
Congratulations on padding out your list by including "classics" and games from inside a series (though you apparently didn't do the same when you were counting PS3 games). I especially like that you picked some classics that are available as download on the PS3 as well. Lastly, if I were you, I'd go back to the PS3 wikipedia list that you linked to, after you've learned to count.
I count 21 games in your list that I would consider "casual". I had already conceded the point that the number was higher than the 360, and was merely questioning your claim of degree. What more do you want.
In other words, I read your argument, and I still think you're wrong.