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New Wave Power Research Rising Off Oregon Coast
necro81 writes "A prototype buoy has been launched off the Oregon coast to try generating electrical power from the ever-present waves. The OSU device works like a giant shake-up flashlight. It is one of several competing designs to take advantage of a potential clean energy goldmine. It will be years before substantial power is contributed to the grid, but several companies have received permits to develop test platforms. The New York Times has an article that surveys the current outlook for wave energy, which it compares to wind energy's prospects back in the 1980s. Concerns about impacts to wildlife and fishing remain to be answered."
Experts predict that current will flow from the anode to the cathode terminal in the near future.
So... I'm assuming harnessing New Wave Power off the coast of Oregon will be about dumping Adam & the Ants in the Pacific and attaching a generator and power cables to them? Hey, I'm for it! In fact... screw the turbine. And the cables...
There's no such thing as free energy. What I wonder, is what this is affecting in the long run, and by how much.
Implemented on a commercially viable scale this is sure to have unintended enviromental consequences.
When wave energy hits a breakwater the energy is dispersed and reflected back into the medium (the ocean). If it hits a a generator it is absorbed and converted into electrical energy. Something like this is taking energy out of a closed system which will have effects. How much? depends on how much energy you take out.
Olaf Stapledon's "Last and First Men" is a mind-boggling future history. Very dated and politically/ideologically goofy in its early parts, then increasingly way-out as humanity nearly dies out, evolves, nearly dies out again, moves to a terraformed Venus . . . and so on, until the 17th and final human species dies out on Neptune 2 billions years from now.
While racing through the history of the cat-like "Third Men," Stapledon notes that one civilization uses tidal power to such an extent that the orbit of the moon is slightly altered!
Biggest problem with using a 'float height' generation system is the bottom anchor. The seafloor isn't all that sturdy to support constant tugging. Plus, the conservationists will have a point in that the bottom anchors will be disruptive to the seafloor ecology.
guess what... you're an idiot.
At least some wave energy is caused by the moon's gravitational field.
Messing with that might suck the moon into the earth!
Just looking at the basic idea, using tidal motion and waves for power generation, makes sense. However, the questions that should be asked before making this large scale, and common, would be: -What waters as best suited for this equipment? -Does the buoy generator system constitute a hazard to navigation? Not only for fishing, but the vast majority of cargo moves by sea. -Will the money from power production cover the cost of placing and maintaining the buoys? It's an interesting idea, but will it turn out to be something that fails?
Someone needs to create something along the lines of the spam solutions template, but for new technologies (like wave power or wind farms).
I'll start:
(things in bold can be easily replaced)
Your solution advocates a
(*) technical ( ) legislative (*) market-based ( ) vigilante
approach to solving a looming energy problem. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws which used to vary from state to state or country to country before a bad federal or international law was passed.)
(*) It will be fought by entrenched fishing interests
(*) It will be fought by entrenched energy corporations
(*) It will be fought by ______________
(*) It will succumb to NIMBY Syndrome
(*) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
( ) Technology doesn't work that way
(*) NIMBY Syndrome will prevent mass deployment
Specifically, your plan fails to account for:
(*) Idiots with boats
( ) International reluctance to engage in sweeping change
(*) Technically illiterate politicians
(*) Extreme stupidity on the part of people who vote
( ) A lack of support from famous Musicians and Actors
(*) Conflicting environmental interests
and the following philosophical objections may also apply:
( ) The money could be better spent curing cancer
( ) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever
been shown practical
(*) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem
(*) Your solution is expensive
(*) Your solution may be politically infeasible
( ) The money could be better spent implementing [other] solution
( ) It makes life harder, not easier
Furthermore, this is what I think about you:
(*) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your house down!
You get the idea. Please improve it.
Not that I'm shitting on wave power, but NIMBY, questions about environmental impact and the fishing & energy industries could seriously crimp any offshore plans.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
New Wave Power is gonna fucking kick ass. Why hasn't anyone thought of this sooner?
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
It always surprised me that wave and tidal energy weren't harnessed more. Wave energy is really just wind energy thrown into a thick medium which should allow us to extract it in all its concentrated goodness. (And wind, in turn, is caused by solar heating.)
But what always seemed more dramatic to me, however, are the tides. Especially living in an area with the highest tides in the world, seeing phenomenal amounts of water come in and out with a 6 foot difference, twice a day, always struck me as having a lot more potential (ha ha) than other sources of renewable energy. Effectively harnessing the gravitation pull of our moon through the tides, always seemed to me to be a solution that was too good to be true. There are days when the sea is calm and the wing generators are slower due to lack of wind; coal and oil prices vary wildly. But nothing stops the tides, day or night; the energy available and its cost is 100% predictable, which is a rarity among energy sources.
In Nova Scotia, we have tidal power plant which generates power from the tides. However, it seems to be in a constant state of research, politics, grants, and such, and is fairly small. (Even twenty years ago, it was in this state; instead of referring to it by its name, the "Fundy Tidal Project," people used to refer to it as the "Tidy Fundal Project.") The amount of energy that could be captured from even a small part of the Bay of Fundy is staggering. Yes, it would be quite an engineering feat, but not really anything beyond other megaprojects. It's sad we haven't progressed further in harnessing this.
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
Let me be the first to object to using tidal energy as a "renewable" resource. Don't people know that it will cause the moon to fly away from the Earth at ever increasing speeds? It's not like the energy is free, you know. Call me a lunatic if you'd like, but I refuse to destroy our moon just to let people run their massive new television sets.
Oh, it's been done. I'm not so sure about the 'awesome' part though.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Scotland has all sorts of cool wave projects on the go.
There's a cool sub-sea wave farm which use the pressure changes to drive a generator.
http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/wave-power-scotland/
A huge 'snank' made of several sections, there are hydraulic rams between each section, which drive a generator.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4805076.stm
The Isle wave project which uses wave power at the shoreline. When the wave hits it fills a tank, pushing out air to drive a turbine. The first one worked really well in the 70's but just after it was built there was a bad storm which trashed it!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1032148.stm
Most of the wave energy is reflected back into the ocean. The ignorance and lack of common sense on Slashdot never ceases to fucking amaze.
Little point looking into wave power, environmentalists will just shut it down.
They have shut down wind farms (Nantucket Sound ala Ted Kennedy, and Walter Cronkite)
They are trying to reverse hydro-power (dam removal in the northwest)
They have killed off nuclear (oh, just pick one)
At some point you just give up and keep buying oil.
Really I don't think the environmentalists (a) believe what they say, and (b) actually want to solve anything.
Most of their actions are either just about narcissism and having something to bitch about (usually yelling at society when they really want to yell at their Dad).
If I thought they actually cared and were working to get things done, I'd be more supportive, but close interaction which the people has turned me very very off to their message.
nah, have you never heard of a lazy wind? it doesn't go around you it goes right through you. :-)
more on topic. if this would reduce wave action there are loads of locations that need very expensive sea defences and we also need to generate power. could we not combine the two by floating these generators off known locations that are been eroded? protect the location and generate power. makes it cheaper to build if you can tap into the others funds.
This isn't usually the best way of looking at things, but power WILL be needed. If we don't get it from this, what else would we do? Wind? Solar? Nuclear? Geo? Regardless of what we do, it will have effects on our environment... This is just another way to affect it.
With wind, we obstruct natural air patterns. With solar, less sunlight will reach earth's surface. With geothermal, we absorb the Earth's very own heat. Any of these could be as intrusive as the other... Which alternative is safer? THAT is the question for our generation to answer. Obviously, reducing the amount of energy expended by the human species is another important part here, too.
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
This is just another perennial perpetual motion machine-like gimmicks...
Duran Duran -> Duran Duran Duran -> Duran Duran Duran Duran...
The ocean is a closed system?
Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
It doesn't just slow the moon (causing it to fly further away). It also slows down the earth's rotation until it matches the moon's orbital period! Do we really want to tap a power source which will ultimately result in a day being 709 hours long, if not longer as the moon flies further away? Hmm, I suppose if we don't update our labor laws mandating 8-hour workdays it might not be so bad...
Wasn't that back in the late-70s/early-80s?
Pure coincidence that I happened to be listening to "The Pleasure Principle" when I checked to see what was happening on Slashdot.
Rock on Polymoogs!
In the course of every project, it will become necessary to shoot the scientists and begin production.
Here's a copy from 5/2005 http://forums.hypography.com/technology-news/2670-waves-power.html
"The OSU device..."
There is only one The OSU, and it is #1 in the BCS right now.
The heat in the earth's core is powered by the sun. And so is the earth's movement. And the current hurricanes are caused by, guess what? Global warming, which is nothing that the accumulation of... solar power. And the lightning, is powered by the perpetual (yes, perpetual) motion of water vapor (powered by, guess what - the sun!) condensed into raindrops. See all the oil below the Earth's surface? Well, it's nothing but hydrocarbons, which in turn were organic materials created by the food chain which goes down to photosynthesis. Sun again.
In other words, all energy in the Earth is derivated from the sun's nuclear fusion energy. Do you really believe we'll just use it all up by putting some magnetic buoys in the sea?
I don't think so.
and found this was discussed ad nauseum below.
1. They Bay of Fundy is kind of unusual. There is a lack of sites that are really that good.
2. Enviromental impact. Tidal areas tend to be very sensitive.
3. Cost. Except at few places tidal energy isn't very dense. It would require constructing huge systems.
That's right. The Bay of Fundy is about the best tidal spot on the planet. I've seen a study on possible locations for tidal power plants, and there are only about ten good sites in the world. Such a site needs a bay with a narrow mouth suitable for a dam, and that's just the minimum. Only bays that are the right size and shape to have a resonance with the tide cycle yield really high tides, like the Bay of Fundy.
There's been some interest in putting underwater turbines at the Golden Gate near San Francisco. Water depth at the Golden Gate is 130 meters, which is unusually deep for a bay mouth, so this might actually work. But that's one of very few possible sites in the US.
Good tidal power sites are about as rare as Niagara Falls-sized waterfalls.
A perfect story. Whatever became of that popular science story about harnessing the Gulf Stream?
saves them work - those things tend to be waterproof already.
MS-DOS: Most Severe Denial of Service
Free Online Backup
Your breathing is "unnatural" too because your sentient, so just hold your breath until you die.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
We're off to outer space...
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
Use an old derelict ship displacing a few hundred tons of water, secure two piers in the ocean floor. Each night the tide will raise the ship along the columns. The following day, recapture the energy of the "suspended" ship as it descends. Or use the rising tide to compress air which can then be captured by a small turbine for electric generation. Either soln. provides simple, cheap power which is renewed each evening and is available at the coast, where more of the people in this world live.
Of course, you're taking this energy from the gravitational pull of the moon so don't blame me when it falls out of orbit in a billion years...
New power generation facility receives Plasmatic injection at its main energy dome. Technicians wearing specially fitted xray spex oversaw the fueling of the power station.
I like music
No you are wrong. Most of the waves energy is reflected back into the ocean and can be readily observed as various rip currents. BTW. it is side shore rip currents that do most of the erosion at sandy beaches.
Solar panels convert to electricity pnly a very small fraction of the photons that hit them. The rest are either absorbed as heat or reflected back into space. I doubt they absorb more energy than dark sand or the ocean.
I laugh to hear wind described as "successful" when it is, without doubt, the most impotent and expensive (5 times more costly to build than nuclear power)means of not only ruining untold thousands of acres but producing uncontrollable, nearly valueless electricity. And, by forcing utilities to operate fossil fuled power geenrators to chase wind energy, up to 15% more carbon emissions are generated than normal. The Time article displays practiically wholesale ignorance of the wave technologies - there are plenty of them, something like 30 different wave machines currently under development or testing. Only a few actually produce dispoatchable power - the rest are no better than wind in this respect - the Seadog is clearly the most impressive design - cheapand easy to build, containing no electronics and impervious to seawater - it consists of only a half dozen moving parts and merely pumps seawater to shore. But that makes all the difference, since that energy can be easily stored in reservoirs and then used as required to produce hydroelectric power, the most valuable and efficient power generation technology available, able to operate as a peak demand provider. The other enormous advantage of wave over wind is that waves contain 450 times more energy than wind. A very small area is required compared to the enormous tracts of land gobbled up and ruined by giant wind towers. But, like wind, unless the wave technology is dispatchable, it is simply a waste of taxpayer dollars to pay for its enormous subsidies. Solar thermal will replace all wind and any non-dispatchable wave that is still around in 10 years.
I remember going on a science trip with this really pretty lass when I was about 14. We went to Anglesey and designed some kind of power station based on renewable energy. As there was a lot of wind and water, we decided on a wave plant. The design of the plant was fairly crude, (hey, this was a weekend). But I designed and built a turbine that would spin in the same direction whatever the direction of the air flowing through it, while maintaining some degree of efficiency, which I was fairly proud of.
How dare you be so modest!! You conceited bastard!!
http://www.pelamiswave.com/index.php
There's a really interesting Google tech talk about this from a company who has been developing a system to harvest wave energy by placing giant floating "snakes" at the surface. It turns out that they are aiming to harvest in sea depths where the wave energy does not come from the tides, but instead from the wind blowing on the water, so indirectly it's "wind" energy.
They address optimum places to locate wave farms (sea depth, wind constancy) and even did an environmental impact study. If all the wave energy that is feasible to harvest is harvested, it could completely offset the CO2 emissions from US electricity production.
Sorry, but I had an 80's flashback when I read the title.
...if something like this does develop off the US Pacific coast, and (ok, let's pick on furriners) as wild salmon stocks keep getting lower and lower, and the US military distracted by stupid presidents, and a Russian, Japanese or Korean wildcat fish trawler or long-line boat follows a school of whatever they're going after, snags a couplefew of the bouys, and manages to somehow pull out or damage a good number of the units?
Would the US get pissed off at Russia these days? Would Korea or Japan essentially say, "tell it to the hand" to the US?
Even better, what if said countries deployed their own versions (say, Russia deploying vast numbers of them on their northern continental shelf, and a US submarine gets snagged in them on a spy mission?
another way to generate power:
get invaded by martians that eat niggers and piss gasoline!
You know what the difference is in turning 40?
You stop reading at "It wil be _ years before..."
Breakthroughs don't end or begin with that line. They just happen.
Free energy at last! Ydthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would see it the way it isn't.
If you make just a few generous assumptions about wave heights, strength of materials, corrosion, and construction costs, the numbers are really dismal. Let's assume you have a 100-ton buoy rising and falling with the waves, averaging twenty foot waves 8 hrs a day, one wave every ten seconds. Note, that's quite optimistic. Assume (low) construction costs of $1,800 per ton.
I get a net generation of $36K of power per year and costs of $34K per year. That's assuming everything goes well, which it never does.
The Pelamis wave energy machine folks address the question of effect. Wave energy is reduced. An island, a breakwater, and various irregularities of the ocean bottom have similar effects.
Pelamis is a cool design. It uses commercial off the shelf hydraulic parts, and its design inherently sheds excess energy from storms. Huge storm-driven waves simply wash over the Pelamis machines and fail to transfer energy to them and their moorings. They are probably the most robust wave generation design out there.
From the NY Times article "I don't want it in my fishing grounds," said Mr. Martinson, 40, who docks his 74-foot boat, Libra, here at Yaquina Bay, about 90 miles southwest of Portland. "I don't want to be worried about driving around someone else's million-dollar buoy."
Mr Martinson, don't you realize we don't need your 74-footer named Libra. That kind has ruined the fishing grounds long since. Please read an article about that, here: http://www.ehponline.org/members/2004/112-5/focus.html
Btw, are you worried about the buoys ruining the fishing grounds or any potential damages you may make to the buoy? Where are the worst case liabilities?
agreed. There won't be any wave energy left, because windmills will stop the wind and squelch the wave action.
Good, but here's a better one...http://www.ceto.com.au/home.php : electricity generation and desalination from the same equipment. And the generators can be centralised and/or put on land for easier maintenance. But I have to congratulate the Oregon guys for getting such a large study going at all. I bet it'll increase fish stocks in the area by providing protection from predators and fishermen.