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Chinese Government Sued Over Dog Height Censorship
Googling Yourself writes "More than 30,000 censors are employed in China to monitor the Internet, so it was no surprise when censors deleted a posting by Chen Yuhua protesting Beijing municipal government's regulations barring any dog over 14 inches high and restricting each family to only one dog. The surprise (reports the Washington Post) was when Chen studied China's civil code and marched into court with a lawsuit, only the second time that a Chinese citizen has gone to court over party censorship. 'I was very careful to follow the correct procedure,' Chen said in an interview, while pointing at the official legal manual on his dining room table. On December 14 Chen was told by clerks that the district court, after referring to higher-level judges for advice, had decided to reject the case. The next step, Chen said, is an appeal to the Supreme Court."
I'd ban any dog under 14 inches high...
Chen must love his dog very much. Because my guess is that he's probably going to lose his life over this. Oh, maybe they won't find a way to put him in prison. Not as such. But I'm sure this old fellow is going to have, say, problems collecting his pension. Lost your paperwork, they'll say, so sorry - come back in six months and maybe we'll find it then.
Of course, they'll be freezing soon in a prison. But it's impressive, nonetheless.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I'd ban any dog under 14 inches high...
Dogs that small either look like samplers or hair with teeth.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
One 14 inch dog should be enough for anyone.
14 inch dog? No wireless. Less height than a mastiff. Lame.
It's very appropriate that he's pointing this out on his dining room table. Large dogs have larger cuts of meat, and limiting each household to just one dog puts him right out of business.
You "keed", but my dog (Heinlein) is a lab/shar-pei mix. Prior to around the late '70's/early '80's, before they started being imported to the US and elsewhere, shar-peis had gone almost extinct because the Chicoms put a tax on all dogs in China in order to try and relieve the massive food shortages they had created. Food shortage + dog tax = extinction of the most delicious Chinese dog breeds.
Insightful and funny are really the same thing, except one has a punch line.
Needless to say, Beijing's Municipal Government is not 'The Chinese Government', nor is this 'a bold challenge to the legal authority of the Communist Party to decide what China's 1.3 billion people can say and read on their computers'. And strictly speaking, we don't know whether his posting was actually removed by somebody who was a member of any government or indeed the Communist Party. In fact, the most likely scenario is that some employee at whichever web-hosting company runs the blog saw some reference to Beijing's local government and automatically deleted the post without even reading it further. And bureaucrats all over the world being what they are, they don't want to be bothered with cleaning up after their mistakes, so they tried to ignore it, knowing that this is too trivial for anybody to take serious action.
So how can this become 'a bold challenge' that illustrates that 'some of China's educated elite may be growing impatient with a one-party authoritarian system'? Well, only in the hazy minds of people who are willing to believe anything about their perceived enemies, never mind reality. I can't be bothered pointing out that this kind of things happen all the time everywhere - you already know.
I, like many other people in the world love and respect the American nation and the American people - but, by gods, you sometimes make it bloody hard work.
Um, this is not censorship, this is much more like racism.
There are living beings that are being excluded, not words.
you're welcome,
- D
So what you're saying is that your dog tastes better than all the others in the neighbourhood? Would you mind giving a rough address? Street would be sufficiently precise.
But it is censorship.
Beijing government bans largish dogs.
Dog owner doesn't like it, so he says so, on the internet
Censors remove his blog postings.
So, he sues the censors.
Is it something along the lines of the people using them as weapons? Doberman Pincers, Rottweilers, etc? To keep people from having two dozen guarding a building to keep the police out, or at least delay them while they destroy evidence or escape?
... I actually lived long enough for the US Right to come full circle with the Communist Left!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
It tasted better than all the other dogs in China - sorry, I can't provide a cite for that. I hear the lab mix gives a bit of a bitter aftertaste, anyway. I think it's from all that adrenaline constantly pumping through them.
Insightful and funny are really the same thing, except one has a punch line.
It's going slow, but China is clearly getting more civilized in terms of human rights and rule of law etc.
I think it's not so much because the rulers are becoming better people, but a result of the enormous economic development and cultural exchange with the outside world. In other words due to trade. Money is power, and as regular Chinese start getting money they start getting power. It's an unstoppable process.
Two thoughts.
1. The Russian path of freeing up political life but not economical life has failed, while the opposite Chinese path seems incredibly productive.
2. The strategy to NOT trade with Cuba is an incredible mistake. With the opposite US policy, Cuba would probably be another Poland today.
Read the Chinese constitution, or at least just skim the guaranteed rights.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/constitution/constitution.html
(See, for example, article 35:
Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration.)
It's interesting that this document exists but, unlike the US Constitution, seems to hold no importance whatsoever.
Still, I'm glad this guy's standing up for himself.
(Completely Off-topic, but what the hell is that Dice Discussions Flash ad doing to Firefox to make it run so slow? Editors, you gotta pull this ad, this is ridiculous.)
Comment of the year
This would seem to be more about the censorship of his complaint, not about his dog. However, I do tend to agree that he's likely to get executed and the family billed for the firing squad bullet(s)...
OTOH, given the Chinese taste for dogmeat, I am somewhat surprised they would issue regulations like this, unless the intent is to take the confiscated dogs and process them for meat. Wouldn't it be better for the Chinese to take a page out of Michael Vick's playbook and factory-farm dogs for their meat?
I doubt it, if anything the government is probably going to be less likely to bother a guy who knows how to use the system. Its the powerless peasants who get really pushed around in China.
if, in fact, China was a nation run by law. Since it's not, and the central government doesn't even have control anymore, this is just pissing in the wind.
only outlaws will have St. Bernards?
Or something like that...
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
This is not the kind of thing that Chinese gov. will use a prison. Keep in mind that the gov. actually uses the prison rather sparingly. Once they decide to punish, they are harsh, but unless a real crime was committed or the gov is out to set examples for the west or local population, prison is not used. The guy is actually fighting against a very minor item, and more importantly, he is staying within the boundaries of that the gov. wants. As long as he does that, nothing official will happen (though he may be harasses a bit, nothing too bad).
Chinese gov. is a totalitarian, but they have a problem. They are a relatively small group of ppl in control over the largest single group of ppl. They know that if the ppl rise up, they will lose. Tiananmen showed that they could lose control, though at that time, there was no real threat. A big part of that was the dissatisfaction with poverty as well as no route for none party members to go. Since that time, the party has worked hard to provide opportunity paths for their citizens.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I am surprised there is any way to sue the Communist government at all. Obviously this guy will not succeed, but maybe he won't get killed either. I can see two outcomes: The Party changes the law to disallow the citizens from suing the government or this will work as an encouragement for more lawsuits for other more important things (this one is not really as important as for example Internet censorship IMO.)
Hope this guy lives (I am sure he'll lose though.)
You can't handle the truth.
Back on topic, I hope that the Chinese people bring their Constitution up in coversations more. Everybody should use that line in the Constitution as their signatures online. Yes, the censors will have a field day but they can't squash everybody. Then they should all have a day of rememberance for Tienemen Square. They should all print photos of the man stopping the tanks and tape them to their backs while they ride to work on their bicycles or on the rear of their cars.
>> barring any dog over 14 inches high and restricting each family to only one dog.
thats not much...a large family would starve over a holiday when the dog stores are closed.
Which would you rather see in public?
From the article: "Chen in effect sued his own Web site"
There seems to be some residual effect from being in the proximity to former Soviet Russia.
I knew a Chinese guy once who had a weiner that was WAY under 14 inches.
Is China inching toward the "Gorbachev moment"? That's when an authoritarian system is that has been propagandizing its people about how free and important they are, is suddenly confronted by people believing the propaganda and demanding that power? It can lead to peaceful change or bloody revolution, but it almost never leads back to the status quo.
The Mongrel Dogs Who Teach
Challenging the government is a very western idea. It's not something that you would ever think of doing in a Communist nation, because it's almost always meant a free ticket to your not-so-local prison.
Yet events like this keep showing up in China. They're figuring it out, and at a decent pace.
It's interesting how nicely these western ideas are showing up in China, somewhere with policies that we don't totally agree with, but still tend to be friends with (trading, not imposing sanctions, etc), yet the same ideas haven't taken hold anywhere in the middle east, where we've been actively trying to get them to change their ways.
The strategy to NOT trade with Cuba is an incredible mistake. With the opposite US policy, Cuba would probably be another Poland today.
Within one year after Castro finally kicks the bucket, I predict Cuba will begin rapid transformation into a capitalist Carribean vacation hotspot, and trade relations with the USA will be on the fast track as well. Castro's brother will not be able to hold onto the country and the communist government there will be swept aside into a fading history.
"We're gonna hav' ta put ol' Yeller down boy" "But I don't want sweet and sour dog for dinner!"
I like this law. I don't like dogs. And I find it funny. Banning dogs by *height*. I wonder how they measure them, especially the borderline cases.
Whew, for a minute, I thought you said 14" dong.
In C++, your friends can see your privates.
Did the proposed law really say 14 inches or did it say 35cm? China is also metric I hope. I find it bad enough that everybody in Europe is starting to specify monitor/TV screen size in inches.
Anyone else think of this as a smiling cyclops?
will work as an encouragement for more lawsuits for other more important things (this one is not really as important as for example Internet censorship IMO.)
Dude, did you even read the summary? He is suing over internet censorship!
How much time as a (relatively) free person does Chen have left?
He'd better hope he's squeaky clean, no Internet posts with anything but praise for the government, no distant relatives in Falun Gong, etc.
This reminds me of the Penn & Teller skit about burning a U.S. Flag inside the Bill of rights, and both survive. Then they pulled out a "Chinese Bill of Rights" made of clear acetate.
The Chinese constitution grants rights to the people. What can be granted can easily be taken away.
The US Bill of Rights recognizes pre-existing, inalienable natural rights of the people and states that the government may not infringe on them.
Not that our government has been all that great on resisting the desire to infringe anyway.
if half a Billion people have 1(one) dog, how much do these dogs eat?
Dont Judge The situation by the Misfortunate. Goga.
The cause of the dog rules in Beijing and other large cities in China are due to the rising of deadly rabies cases from dog bites.
Normally, one could deal with that by strict immunization requirements. However, even little rules like that are hardly enforceable in China. People just either ignore it or get a fake certificates to avoid the costs. Further, many vet clinics are selling fake medicines. And so the government comes up with stupid and crude rules attempting to get rid of the problem quickly or forcibly -- get rid of all large dogs.
That's why you will see lots of these stupid, unreasonable and over restrictive rules everywhere. Exam closely, you would understand the cause: anything more flexible will be quickly circumvented and unenforcible. The famous saying is that "whenever there are rules above and there will be workaround below." The same phenomena apply to other issues like birth control policy, business regulation, etc. This makes governing very difficult.
Who should be blamed for? It is their government ultimately! Why? Because after long long time of disrespecting their own laws and rules from the top to the bottom of the government, the culture of cheating has rooted in all of China and that in turn causes the government to make up even more stupid rules that force people to cheat even more and smarter; this turns into vicious cycle. It is like if one has a cheating parents, one would more likely to be dishonest. The biggest problem in China is the lack of trust. At this point, nothing can really save them -- not even democracy or religious believes.
I'm sorry, but racism??? This is the real world for goodness sake! "living beings"? What about cows, chickens, pigs, lamb, and all the other animals we slaughter and eat by the millions on a regular basis? How about we worry more about the inhumane treatment of _humans_ before we start worrying about those annoying furry meat bags some call pets. (To be fair, humans are meat bags too, except we can attack from a distance and employ tools. Fear us.)
P.S. - Am I alone in occasionally seeing a cow along the highway and having to resist the urge to jump out, tackle it, and take a bite?
With all due respect to China and notwithstanding their recent accomplishments in space and other areas commonly associated with "advanced nations," they are considered a "developing nation" and thus should be looked at with a slightly different perspective I feel. They're making progress in many areas and are slowly getting there but it'll take time. Granted part of the reason they're absolved from the Kyoto protocol despite, like India, being so close to surpassing the US in carbon emissions is the fact they weren't responsible for the emissions that over time did the damage we're hoping to only now address. However equally important a reason they're absolved is their global consideration as a "developing nation."
;)
I'm Panamanian and if I hung out our dirty legal laundry the world would laugh their buts off. But heck we're about 1 billion citizens shy of them and not as globally interesting
That's just my POV... no more, no less.
I have a great recipe for Lab, that totally eliminates that bitter aftertaste.
Got if from "101 ways to WOK your dog..."
I kill me.
...next they'll be banning rare and medium-rare.
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
Before you read all the comments about dog noise and feces, it might be interesting to know the on topic reason for the Chinese rules about dogs.
In 1979, China adopted its One Child Policy. That was in response to calculations showing that, it China did not reduce its population growth, hundreds of millions of people would die of starvation by 2025, because China does not have enough productive farm land to feed everyone projected to be alive if there was no birth rate limit.
The idea of limiting dog size is to reduce the competition for food from pets.
Also see The Effect of China's One-Child Family Policy after 25 Years.
I never understood this "hate speech" attitude of "Let's drive it underground, then it'll go away." So incredibly naive. That's right, let it fester, never seeing the light of day or be rationally countered in the public square.
It's kind of like the attitude in our War On (Some) Drugs.
This reminds me of a tax in the UK, way back when, on cars. It was based on the diameter of the engine's cylinder, and so manufacturers started building engines with narrow, but long, cylinders.
This policy will just increase the number of Dachshunds kept as pets; or perhaps not since Dachshunds are also known as 'sausage dogs'...
Good job they didn't limit the length of the dog; that'd make for some very odd looking animals in the long run.
Max.
I refer to the opening up in the 90s, after the Soviet Union fell.
There was pretty serious and real political freedom, but much less economical freedom. A decade later, as you point out, very little political freedom remains.
China went the opposite way, and again it seems the level of political freedom follows the economical.
Why? I ain't new here!
You can't handle the truth.
-ese and -an/-ian are suffixes with similar purpose. Whether the result is a noun or adjective depends on grammatical use in the sentence. Since we're so used to hearing "American" as a noun, or as an adjective with the ellipsis, i.e. "American [person]", then anytime another word uses the -an/-ian suffix, we hear it the same way. Similarly the compound word "Englishman" is typical, so you hear the "sh" or "s" sound at the end, you think it's an adjective.
Yeah I am a coward; but the truth is that this is on the front page because any challenge to the Chinese political situation is cause for interest. We all secretly hope this will topple the regime of censorship and shallow thought even though it won't.
You know I read over this topic real quick and I honestly thought it said, "Chinese Government Sued Over Hot Dog Censorship".
Then I realized that both topics were equally absurd.