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The Anatomy of Money-Mule Scams

Brian Krebs of the Washington Post's Security Fix blog has up an article on work-at-home money mule scams (backgrounder blog post here). These operations offer victims hundreds or thousands of dollars per week for moving money through their own accounts — a critical piece of the infrastructure for profiting from identity theft and phishing. The article links to the site of a UK fraud fighter named Bob Harrison, who lists hundreds of fradulent money-mule operations.

135 comments

  1. I have been trying by El+Lobo · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I have been trying for months to be selected by one of those scammers just for fun and to investigate the whole process. I answer every single strange letter from generous companies, rich princes, ex-gobernants of obscure countries, etc. I replay, playing a stupid character, and get so long as getting a few replies. Then, without a reason, they get absolutly silent.

    I don't know if they get caught or if they just smell that something is fishy, but I guess they are smart and they are searching for a given profile: not too smart, not too dumb, just right....

    --
    It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
    1. Re:I have been trying by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      Then, without a reason, they get absolutly silent.


      Must be your sig.
      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    2. Re:I have been trying by BillGod · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have been trying this myself for a long time. I have responded to every email I have ever gotten. None have ever contacted me back. I would love to see what I can torture them with. If no one has seen this you have to go hear. www.419eater.com Some of the things they make them do is hilarious.

      --
      MISSING - Sig file. 2 years old black and white and very funny. If found please email me.
    3. Re:I have been trying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    4. Re:I have been trying by mdonley · · Score: 2, Informative

      Be sure to check out the approach used in the "My Butterfly Guy" rouse used by some very convincing scambaiters... Read through the whole story, it really is incredible how it all played out...

      --
      God look at me, I'm just a man, but you tell me I'm not just a man, so hard to understand, after all, I'm just a man.
    5. Re:I have been trying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I replay, playing a stupid character, and get so long as getting a few replies.

      I think that's your problem. They aren't looking for stupid people. They are looking for greedy people. You need to be suspicious and pretend to let your greed get the better of you. For example, say you don't trust them and want a higher cut. Read about the people caught in scams. If you read carefully, you'll see they aren't normally stupid, but greedy.

    6. Re:I have been trying by Icarus1919 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Try this: www.spamyourenemy.com

    7. Re:I have been trying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      from the page:
      "From June 12th to today September 15th people on the list have received 121 spams."

      Doesn't seem very good to me, but I'll try it out.

  2. I've been doing this sort of thing for years. by Shag · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm just a pawn in a complicated scheme to surreptitiously move money from my employers to my creditors. And there are thousands of others like me.

    --
    Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
    1. Re:I've been doing this sort of thing for years. by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      You, too, eh? And here I thought it was just me!

      Thousands, eh? Maybe we should start a club.

    2. Re:I've been doing this sort of thing for years. by jo42 · · Score: 1

      You mean billions instead of thousands. Welcome to modern slavery.

    3. Re:I've been doing this sort of thing for years. by downix · · Score: 5, Funny

      never thought I'd be quoting Drew Carey...

      "we have a club, it's called EVERYBODY! We meet at the bar."

      --
      Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
    4. Re:I've been doing this sort of thing for years. by smithmc · · Score: 1

        I'm just a pawn in a complicated scheme to surreptitiously move money from my employers to my creditors. And there are thousands of others like me.

      It's even more complicated than you know. The money flows from your employer's customers, to your employers, to you, to your creditors...

      --
      Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
  3. all for the easy buck by downix · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That this scam can even work is a product of supplier-side economics. Where people don't have to work to get what they want. That it is all about me me me.

    Get rich quick schemes never are quick and they don't get you rich. never have, never will. Grow up and get a real job. Want to make $100k a year, go to college to earn that degree for a position that does make $100k a year.

    --
    Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
    1. Re:all for the easy buck by balsy2001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The only get rich quick scheme that works is selling get rich quick schemes to idiots.

      --
      GENERATION 27: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    2. Re:all for the easy buck by kestasjk · · Score: 1

      Which degree gets you $100k?

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    3. Re:all for the easy buck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Engineering: http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0801/gallery.bestcos_toppay.fortune/6.html

      Devon Energy
      Average total pay: $173,057
      For: Engineer*

    4. Re:all for the easy buck by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      Possibly one in management, if you can find one.

    5. Re:all for the easy buck by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      I know one guy who was convinced that there was an easy way to make money. He just had to find out how. Sure, some people get lucky and end up making millions in the stock market, or on some weird investment, but it's not something you can really depend on. If you want to make money, you're probably better off just working hard, and sticking to some kind of consistent market.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    6. Re:all for the easy buck by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The only get rich quick scheme that works is selling get rich quick schemes to idiots.
      Sounds funny, but that's what some people over here actually do. They post one of those "Work from home, set your own hours, make up to $4000 a month" ads. You contact them (usually on a cell phone nr.) and they'll ask you to send them $100 for a Starter Kit. This kit basically contains instructions on setting up your own "Work from home" scheme to scam others, by selling them your Starter Kits. In a strange recursive way, this scheme is not illegal here (NL) because the advice in the kit is sound and delivers exactly what was promised in the ad, namely a legal way to make money working from home.
      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    7. Re:all for the easy buck by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Maybe not in your first day of of school, but there's a lot of degrees that will get you in the door, and on your way to making $100,000 in the first 10 years.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    8. Re:all for the easy buck by everphilski · · Score: 1

      Aerospace Engineering.
      Financial Consulting.
      Plenty of other fields...
      You won't make 100k the year you walk out of college with your diploma, but you will soon thereafter (I'm an engineer; I work with guys in their 30's pulling down six figures in engineering.) if you are a good, hardworking employee. There is no turnkey solution for high pay. You have to work hard, but the rewards are proportionate.

    9. Re:all for the easy buck by evilRhino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course, you'll probably have to take a loan to do this, so a good chunk of the first several years of your increased income is actually going to interest payments. Then you have to actually find the job you want afterwards, and hope they won't lay you off if they happen to lose that big contract. Great plan!

    10. Re:all for the easy buck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I decided not to bother with just $100k. I majored in Millionaire.

    11. Re:all for the easy buck by Bob-taro · · Score: 1

      In a strange recursive way, this scheme is not illegal here (NL) because the advice in the kit is sound and delivers exactly what was promised in the ad, namely a legal way to make money working from home.

      Interesting. In the U.S., I'm pretty sure that would be considered a "pyramid scheme" and therefore illegal. The people who start it may make a lot of money, but once there's no one left to recruit, a bunch of people just lose their starter kit money. The idea of it NOT being illegal is interesting. It raises the question of how much should a government do to protect it's citizens from their own foolishness.

      --
      Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
    12. Re:all for the easy buck by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The father of a friend of mine has spent his entire life chasing the big dollar that's always just over the next hill. When I first realized that, i found it rather amusing. But now I just find it rather sad to see.

      He has never really worked at anything for very long because there is always a bigger, better opportunity right over there instead. And he has managed to get started on some things that could possibly have developed into something eventually, but due to his short attention span they never get a chance to get off the ground.

      The last I heard of him was a year or so back when he was moving to yet another new town because money was just falling out of peoples' pockets there and he was going to offer some kind of unspecified services and collect some of that.

      It's too bad, really, because he's now got to be well over 60 years old now, and he still has pretty much nothing at all.

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    13. Re:all for the easy buck by Ced_Ex · · Score: 1

      The only get rich quick scheme that works is selling get rich quick schemes to idiots. Lies! The other get rich quick scheme that works is to start your own religion!
      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    14. Re:all for the easy buck by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think (NAL) it's legal because there is an actual product being sold.....and you don't necessarily have the whole "piece of their action" thing going.

      Layne

    15. Re:all for the easy buck by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Any job will pay $100k, I was playing Life the other day....and I drew the $100k salary card. It was great....well except for the whole "no raises my entire life" part.

      Layne

    16. Re:all for the easy buck by tattood · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, I think (NAL) it's legal because there is an actual product being sold.....and you don't necessarily have the whole "piece of their action" thing going. Per the U.S. Federal Trade Commission:

      "Pyramid schemes now come in so many forms that they may be difficult to recognize immediately. However, they all share one overriding characteristic. They promise consumers or investors large profits based primarily on recruiting others to join their program, not based on profits from any real investment or real sale of goods to the public. Some schemes may purport to sell a product, but they often simply use the product to hide their pyramid structure."
      --
      WTB [sig], PST!!!
    17. Re:all for the easy buck by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Interesting. In the U.S., I'm pretty sure that would be considered a "pyramid scheme" and therefore illegal. The people who start it may make a lot of money, but once there's no one left to recruit, a bunch of people just lose their starter kit money.


      As SQLGuru points out, the critical thing is that a stand-alone product is delivered.
      If the kit included an instruction (backed up by some sort of technical measures, perhaps) to send $10 of each $100 revenue to the person who sold you the original kit, then it would be a pyramid scheme, and illegal as a consequence. That would probably also be the case if the "kit" required you to buy your first set of 20 kits for selling on (at the bargain knock-down price of $10 ! ! ) from the person selling you the advice.
      Quite how this is different from marketing a franchise, I'm not sure (and I have some shreds of self-respect, so I'm not going to become a lawyer). But since so many franchise businesses are close to exploitation scams anyway ...
      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  4. Security or Human? by Nettogrof · · Score: 1

    Maybe the washington post should rename his blog to: Human Fix blog

  5. EBay is not a court of law by thehickcoder · · Score: 5, Interesting

    EBay investigated, concluding that Monroe's phantom employer had tied her PayPal account to a fraudulent auction. The auction site's verdict: She was responsible for repaying the full amount to the blameless auction winner. Monroe is now working two part-time jobs to pay the bills and to make the other victim whole.
    Since when does EBay get to decide who is responsible for fraud?
    1. Re:EBay is not a court of law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since EBay owns Paypal?

    2. Re:EBay is not a court of law by BlueNoteMKVI · · Score: 5, Informative

      ....since you agreed to their Terms of Service.

      I'm too lazy to look up a citation at 7:30 in the morning, but the last time I looked over the PayPal TOS it pretty much said "we reserve the right to take money out of your account whenever we want to, and your only recourse is to ask us nicely to have it back. Say 'please' and we might consider it."

      Don't ever leave more money in your PayPal account than you can afford to lose.

      For what it's worth, I think a court of law would have agreed in this case that the woman was responsible. It's impossible to really say without details of the eBay auction in question, but she took the customer's money. What she did with it after that is not the customer's problem. If she took his money in exchange for a service/product that she could not provide, she owes the customer his money back.

    3. Re:EBay is not a court of law by BlueNoteMKVI · · Score: 2, Informative

      I know, replying to my own post is bad form - but I failed to mention that eBay now owns PayPal, so they are effectively one and the same.

    4. Re:EBay is not a court of law by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Since eBay bought PayPal?

    5. Re:EBay is not a court of law by torkus · · Score: 4, Informative

      They don't. But, as someone else mentioned the paypal TOS say they can basically take whatever money out of your PP account at will to cover whatever, whenever, at their discretion with no limits and your only recourse is binding arbitration. PP sucks. I hate them. They act like a bank with no limits, no rules, no recourse.

      That said, the solution to dealing with PP is simple. Never *ever* leave money in your PP account. Either don't link it to a bank account or use one with little to no money in it. Preferably link to your credit card - one with very friendly rules about reversing charges. PP will wipe out your account and push you negative ... but they're not going to get any money from your credit card. 'Blanket authorizations' are specifically prohibited by Visa/MC. You can not agree via PP TOS to allow them to hold your credit card as arbitrary security.

      I'm not advocating knowingly using the mule scams to actually make money - that's fraud and illegal.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    6. Re:EBay is not a court of law by darkfire5252 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since when does EBay get to decide who is responsible for fraud?
      It's the latest trend in corporate liability. All they do is assure the consumer that they get to decide, and tell them that it would be upheld in a court of law and that the agreement is legally binding. Clueless consumer believes all the legalese being thrown at them, and the issue never goes to an actual courtroom. An actual judge would rule anything from Monroe is liable (for doing the actual act) to Paypal/Ebay is liable (because both the auction and the PayPal accounts are under their control and they didn't adequately protect against fraud) to the buyer is liable (for not adequately investigating the purchase). However, because Monroe bought the "Look at this thing we made you agree to, our word is legally binding" bit, it never goes to court and Monroe continues to believe the lie.

      It's no different than the dump trucks with the words "Not responsible for objects falling from truck" printed on the back of them. They are damn liable, but most people take the claim at face value and don't push the issue.
      IANAL, etc.
    7. Re:EBay is not a court of law by bcattwoo · · Score: 1

      Since when does EBay get to decide who is responsible for fraud? They can't in the legal sense, but they can tell Monroe that she needs to pay back the money or they will take her to court to collect. For all we know Monroe sought legal advice and was told she would be found liable to repay the money.
    8. Re:EBay is not a court of law by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      It is slightly different. There's a legal basis for Paypal insisting that it's legally binding. You agreed to their contract. It's possible that this would be considered an unfair contract term, but by no means guaranteed.

    9. Re:EBay is not a court of law by nexuspal · · Score: 1

      Yikes, normally I would think if they took money out of your account it would be considered an unauthorized ACH transaction and be summarily reversed. Based on their TOS however, they may be able to convince the bank that the $2,000 they took (hypothetical) was indeed "authorized".

      --
      I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure :-P
    10. Re:EBay is not a court of law by torkus · · Score: 1

      Which is why I don't give PP my bank account info. They can have every credit card number of mine (which is more than a few) but the ACH has significantly different rules that do more to protect the bank than the consumer - especially compared to credit cards. It's actually surprizing how much power a consumer has when using his/her CC. Most people have no idea. FWIW i don't know the details of the ACH rules, just inferring them from use/interaction and an ex GF that was in banking.

      Did you know that a merchant *can not* ask to see ID if you use a visa or MC unless it's unsigned? They also *can not* have a minimum purchase. There's also a half dozen things they either must or must not do or you can issue a chargeback which they will have to eat - even if the service or goods provided were all hunkey dorey. Look up the merchant agreements for V/MC some time :)

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    11. Re:EBay is not a court of law by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Don't ever leave more money in your PayPal account than you can afford to lose.

      That is the most important thing with PayPal. They are not a bank, they are not bound by the familiar laws and the federal reserve doesn't give a damn about your funds. If PayPal spontaneously decides they don't like you, they can freeze your account and there's nothing you can do to get those funds back, short of suing them despite the covenant not-to-sue in their TOS.

      I've seen countless sites get effectively defrauded out of tens of thousands of dollars by PayPal. It would be slightly different if they actually refunded the money to the donators, but they just seize it and accuse you of fraud. It's kind of a bank deciding you have too much money and saying "This is mine now, FOAD!".

      PayPal is not a bank. It's a convenient service with some serious shortcomings, that one uses at their own risk.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
  6. Best fake check ever! by clonan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Last year I had someone send me a Money Gram money order to cash for something I was selling on craigslist. I was kinda suspicious when he asked to cash a check for more than I was selling the item for....

    Now I have sold stuff online for years and can usually spot a fake immediatly...This one I had to take to a bank to confirm!

    Someone had stolen a roll of blank money gram money orders and entered a valid serial number and everything. The only thing wrong was the micker ink. The numbers at the bottom of that check were standard ink, not magnetic...

    I still have that check on my fridge.

  7. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  8. Typo in TFA by kryten_nl · · Score: 3, Funny

    Monroe was the victim of a "money mule" scam, in which criminals make use of third parties (often unsuspecting victims like Monroe) to launder stolen funds.
    That should of course be:
    ...(often absolute idiots who think that money grows on trees and don't know that when something seems to good to be true it usually is like Monroe)...

    Easy mistake to make, it's in Word's auto-replace list.

    --
    For the perfect anti-Unix, write an OS that thinks it knows what you're doing better than you do and let it be wrong.
    1. Re:Typo in TFA by Minwee · · Score: 1

      ... seems to good to be true ...

      Easy mistake to make, it's in Word's auto-replace list.

      What, using 'to' instead of 'too'? I thought even Word knew better than that.

  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  10. A vital part of the economy! by Guppy06 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Would Monster.com even still exist if it weren't for scams like these?

    1. Re:A vital part of the economy! by nasor · · Score: 1

      Would Monster.com even still exist if it weren't for scams like these? This was moded funny, and it sort of is, but it's also insightful. I've never actually used monster, but I've had numerous people tell me that literally half of the replies from Monster postings are either outright fraud or scams that are only technically legal (ie, contacting someone randomly regarding a "job" that doesn't have anything to do with their field and trying to sell them a $200 for a "starter kit," before they can begin "working".)
    2. Re:A vital part of the economy! by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      I've used monster. I've possibly gotten 1 of those, but I've had dozen of contacts from it that were legit. Now most of those were headhunters and never amounted to anything, but a headhunter is at least looking to fill a programming job.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    3. Re:A vital part of the economy! by bughunter · · Score: 1
      While I too was shocked at the number of scam emails that my Monster resume elicited, it also elicited the phone call from the headhunter that landed me the new job from which I'm posting this message right now.

      So now I'm e-malingering at a 20% higher wage. And in an R&D environment where it's (almost) encouraged!

      --
      I can see the fnords!
  11. Re:Best fake check ever! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 2, Informative

    The only thing wrong was the micker ink. I think you mean MICR ink. Magnetic Ink Character Recognition is sort of a precursor to OCR. Instead of using an optical scanner, the MICR numbers are printed in a special font with a magnetized ink or toner at the bottom of the check. The error rate is a LOT lower for MICR than OCR, which is why banks continue to use it.
  12. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  13. Re:Best fake check ever! by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

    I mean, aren't you just wasting your time with trying to accept other payment types? I've never heard of non-cash payments being anything except scams... Well PayPal and similar services are a non-cash form of payment and, personally, I've found them to be fairly safe for the seller. I've heard all the same horror stories about PayPal and their policies for handling disputes, but I've never personally been burned by such policies.

  14. Too Smart by craagz · · Score: 0

    One of my friends got such an email. He also acted innocent and started building a relationship with the scammers.
    Then one day when they asked him to send in some "important" document they required, he sent them the "document" (a Hard Drive killer virus or something). He never heard from them again!!

  15. Another "no news" article? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    2006 called. They want their news back.

    This sort of operation has been going on for at the very least 2 years now. It's hardly "news". But it's stunning that there are still people who fall for that. Let's see... easy money, little to no work involved, shoving money around...

    Hello? Does anyone here NOT smell a scam? I still can't decide whether those people are just insanely stupid or whether they know very well what they're doing and just claim to be stupid in case they get busted (and they usually do get busted), as a get-out-of-jail card. After all, stupidity appearantly keeps you safe from prosecution.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Another "no news" article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      "2006 called. They want their news back."

      2001 called. It wants its tired, over-used meme back.

    2. Re:Another "no news" article? by torkus · · Score: 1

      If it didn't work... ya know?

      Just like the penny stock scam emails seem utterly stupid to me. But pump-and-dump makes money for those doing it so they continue.

      Every time i sell something on criags list i get at least one or two emails offering a random amount MORE than my posting price. Most even offer to pay for the item to be picked up and shipped. They're all obvious scams but if some people didn't fall for them then the scammers wouldn't bother.

      I just want to know who the idio^^^^Victims are.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    3. Re:Another "no news" article? by j_166 · · Score: 1

      "2001 called. It wants its tired, over-used meme back."

      We've just received a fax from 1992. It's requesting you return its case of the grumpies.

  16. Scammers Scammed by HeavensFire · · Score: 1

    I bet the scammers get 'scammed' themselves occasionally.

    "Hmm... FORWARD the $2,601... ooorrr..."

    1. Re:Scammers Scammed by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      "Hmm... FORWARD the $2,601... ooorrr..." Or be caught with $2,601 that was transferred from someone's bank account whose identity was stolen by someone in Nigeria? Decisions, decisions.
    2. Re:Scammers Scammed by RedOrDead · · Score: 1

      Check out The Scam Baiter. There's a guy there that sends useless computers to scammers and makes them pay for the shipping.

  17. Other End of the Money Transfer by Inexile2002 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've lived in Madrid for four years and have heard this story from several different people including an ex girlfriend.

    A tourist looking guy with an American accent will approach people on the street with a sob story about how was robbed or otherwise lost his trekking backpack and included in the loss was his passport and wallet. His mother is sending him a Western Union Money transfer, but he can't collect it without ID. He then asks if he can call the USA with your name and passport number, have the money wired to you (his mom is always "at the Western Union right now!"). You accept and collect the money transfer at zero cost to you - fees are paid on the other end, and then turn the cash over to this guy. I've heard the sum of 275 euros up to over 800. He even offers 50 euros to reluctant people.

    My ex-girlfriend fell for it, and then by coincidence bumped into the same guy two years later, so he's being doing this for a while. I didn't know her the first time she fell for it, but the second time she bumped into the guy, we both assumed it was something to do with drugs but now I'm guessing it probably had something to do with Money Mules.

    Interesting that they actually use intermediates on the other end at least some of the time.

    Also, The Money Mules would be a great name for an 90's cover band.

    1. Re:Other End of the Money Transfer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, The Money Mules would be a great name for an 90's cover band.

      90's ??? C'mon, it's so 30's all over:

      Folks, now here's the story 'bout Monney the Mule-ah',
      She was a red-hot hootchie-cootcher,
      She was the roughest, toughest frail,
      But Monney had a heart as big as a whale.

      Hi-de-hi-de-hi-di-hi!
      Ho-de-ho-de-ho-de-ho!
      He-de-he-de-he-de-he!
      Ho-de-ho-de-ho!

      ...

      Poor Mule, poor Mule, poor Mule.
    2. Re:Other End of the Money Transfer by Vadim+Makarov · · Score: 1

      I'm not familiar with the way you live in Spain, but wouldn't be reporting this to the police be the right course of action?

      Consider this: even if what he does is not on the surface illegal, getting reported to the police more than once by different people will surely draw their attention.

      --
      17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
    3. Re:Other End of the Money Transfer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod +1, Cab Calloway

      (not that anyone will have got the parent's reference - most people here are too young for even the Blues Brothers)

    4. Re:Other End of the Money Transfer by Impotent_Emperor · · Score: 1

      Something similar happens in the U.S., but they are usually panhandlers. Wiring money, while available, isn't a daily activity.

      It's usually, "I need money to buy a bus ticket" or some such thing. Though, I have heard of some adopting Australian accents and claiming to need money to get to the Australian embassy.

      I'm almost motivate enough to start a database of panhandlers. Their pictures can be taken using camera phones and their locations tracked. It'd be a good public service, until they sue me.

    5. Re:Other End of the Money Transfer by Inexile2002 · · Score: 1

      Probably a good idea, but as I said, I heard the story from other people and never saw the guy myself. Hell, since I heard it from different people, it might not always be the same guy. You now officially know as much about it as I do, so if you want to go to the cops, be my guest. As for getting the ex-girlfriend to go - let's just say that she doesn't take my calls any more.

      You're right though, if I ran into this guy, I might be tempted to call the cops. (Or rob him, what's he going to do about it?)

    6. Re:Other End of the Money Transfer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fell for this. Story checked out (verified where he was going), so I bought a bus ticket - with cash, so my # wasn't on it. Turned around and he was returning the ticket for cash. Greyhound said, "we could have stamped it as non-refundable".

    7. Re:Other End of the Money Transfer by jahudabudy · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of these scammers in the town I live in, which is a college town. The reason I mention this is most of these guys just say they are trying to get to the next town over, or at most, the next. I guess this works on college kids w/ no car, but I always just offer them a ride instead of the $$$. It's fun to watch them stammer, trying to come up with a reason they can't just accept a ride from me, but MUST HAVE an actual bus ticket.

      I've never had anyone take me up on the offer of a ride :D

      --
      ...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
  18. Re:Best fake check ever! by clonan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Absolutly I accept other forms than cash. Craigslist is only really effective because it is all over the US for free...I have only done one local deal and it WAS cash. Requiering cash for non-local deals is a good way to not sell anything.

    My Experience
    I have found Paypal to be very good so long as you send to a confirmed address and get tracking. I have had several people try and argue it but once I send Paypal the tracking number the dispute goes away in my favor.

    Personal checks are riskier but I still haven't had that much of a problem. I always deposit them first and only ship once it has cleared. In over 1,000 check/money order transactions I have only had one bad check. And the check was bad for lack of funds. The person paid me immediatly with a money order plus my bank fee.

    Legit money orders are usually so easy to identify that I would ship "at risk" before depositing them. I have run across 4 people trying to pass off fake money orders and never lost anything to them.

    The grandparent is note worthy only because it was actually convincing in all but one detail.

    I have had well over 20,000 online transactions and by following the rules above I have had about 30 problems and never lost money on any of them.

    The moral of the story is:

    Online business is safe and effective for everyone involved so long as you don't do anything stupid like ship before confirming payment and always get tracking numbers.

  19. Re:Best fake check ever! by clonan · · Score: 1

    This is what I get for not looking up the proper spelling before I post....

    For those who are interested MICR ink is raised, has very crisp edges and will not bleed through the paper.

    If you have any concerns, look for those features. If all else fails, take it to a bank and ask them to run it through their MICR reader before depositing it.

  20. My guess would be by Chrisq · · Score: 1

    A first-class law degree?

    1. Re:My guess would be by ari_j · · Score: 1

      Not typically, unless you are willing to live in a place where that's not much money anyhow and work 90 hours a week to try to get to the billable hour expectations of your firm. See this NALP article and others on their site for more information.

  21. Next time by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Informative

    Give him the number to the US embassy. If he has really been robbed and lost his passport they'll help him out.

  22. Yet another enticement scheme by cjonslashdot · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This is an example of an enticement scheme. There is a full taxonomy of schemes in chapter 5 of my book High-Assurance Design. The chapter can be downloaded from http://assuredbydesign.com/haa/chs/Berg_ch05.pdf.

  23. Money and goods mules by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2, Informative

    In addition to money mules, there are also "goods" mules who help transfer fraudulently obtained goods overseas. The typical situation is: ID thief uses stolen card information to buy electronics from a "cardable" website (one which doesn't do a lot of checks on whether the person using the card is the real cardholder). The thief is based overseas, but knows that having goods shipped there might (at best) raise red flags and (at worst) lead the police right to them. So they convince some poor, greedy saps that they are helping out a small overseas company. The goods mules gets paid small sums to receive goods and then reship them.

    The particulars might differ based on situation, of course. I've heard of the scammers using images taken from Google Images to convince the mules that they (the scammers) are really a highly attractive woman who just so happened to have fallen in love with them and needs their help with her struggling business. Yes, people fall for this. Partly because the scammers are good at what they do and partly because some people are just greedy idiots. They mentally block out any red flags because of the promise of money.

    On one hand, the mules are really sad and pathetic. On the other hand, they get me mad because without them much of the identity theft/eBay fraud/stolen credit card purchases, wouldn't be possible (or at least would be much easier to track).

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    1. Re:Money and goods mules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thief is based overseas, but knows that having goods shipped there might (at best) raise red flags and (at worst) lead the police right to them. So they convince some poor, greedy saps that they are helping out a small overseas company. The goods mules gets paid small sums to receive goods and then reship them.
      There's a more intelligent version of that scam that I've heard about. Rather than attempting to get their hands on the actual purchased goods, the criminal will run an auction for the item. When someone wins the bidding, the criminal uses the stolen card to purchase the item and ships it to the winner's address. As far as the auction winner is concerned, nothing went wrong...they sent the payment and got the item. But a month or so later, once the fraudulent charge has been identified, the CC company will contact the victim to recoup the cost of the item.

      By the time anyone realizes that something phishy is going on, the criminal has executed the scam on a whole bunch of people and has already closed any paypal/bank accounts used in the scam.
  24. Paypal and eBay complicit by EmagGeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What is really appalling to me is how Paypal and eBay are seemingly exempt from the rule of law.

    If someone breaks into my house, steals my stuff, and puts it in their house, I am not allowed to just go into the thief's house and steal it back. I am required to give them the due process of law, file criminal charges, provide evidence to the prosecution, and let the jury decide.

    If criminal A breaks into the house of victim B, stashes the stuff in victim C's house before moving it to their own house, victim C's landlord can't just decree that victim C has to pay back victim B for the loss.

    This is exactly what paypal is doing.

    1. Re:Paypal and eBay complicit by BlueNoteMKVI · · Score: 1

      If the criminals were breaking into people's paypal accounts, your analogy might hold water. I'm not saying that doesn't happen, but that's not what this story is about.

      It's more like a drop-shipping scenario.

      Imagine you buy an iPod on eBay. The seller doesn't actually have an iPod, but he has an agreement with the dropshipping house. You pay the seller, the seller pays the shipper, the shipper ships your iPod...but this time the shipper skips town. Who are you going to call when the iPod doesn't arrive? The seller's agreement with the dropshipper is not your business or your problem - you paid money to the seller, expecting an iPod, the seller didn't deliver. I'm sure you'll want your money back from the seller. He'll have to take that up with the dropshipper, but again, not your problem.

      The story really is about the same thing. The customer sent money to the victim for a computer. The victim sent most of that money on to the criminal, expecting that the criminal would ship the computer. The criminal disappeared. The customer is now angry at the victim and wants his money back - he doesn't care about the victim's arrangements with the criminal. Not his problem.

      Yes, I also realize that the victim didn't know what the money was for or where it came from. I don't care, that's just stupid - if someone wrote me a check for $2000 I would definitely want to know what the heck that money was for before I did anything with it.

      The fact remains that the customer is not at fault here - he paid money, expecting something in return. The person to whom the customer paid the money is obligated (morally if not legally) to return the money if he can't provide that something. The same goes for the transaction between the victim and the criminal - the victim paid money, expecting the criminal to provide something in return. The burden is on the victim to get the money back from the criminal (good luck with that).

      Regardless of who is morally obligated to whom, the PayPal terms of service govern the entire transaction. PayPal's TOS are scary - they can effectively take money from your PayPal account whenever they want to for any reason they can come up with. Anyone who accepts PayPal accepted these terms and conditions.

    2. Re:Paypal and eBay complicit by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Ebay doesn't have any legal recourse if you refuse this. Paypal is not a bank, they're a corporate (private) entity that handles money much like a 'bank' in SecondLife or WoW (I don't play any of these games so I don't know if there are banks in WoW). If you get suckered into providing your bank information for them so they can withdraw anything from your bank account, then that's on you. I just entrust them with their standard $300 limit and a credit card number which flags my expenses over $100.

      My example: I sold something through e-bay and apparently was bid on by a scammer. I cancelled the bid but was charged a fee somehow for placing and completing an ad and then not selling it (that was back when E-bay was in it's first 6 months). I just refused to pay anything about it, they send me some nastygrams in my e-mail but they didn't have any legal recourse since 1) I didn't sign anything and 2) they didn't give any recourse for me (the victim) almost scammed by the highest bidder. They sent me some more nastygrams and eventually closed out my account. I didn't care, just opened another account.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    3. Re:Paypal and eBay complicit by torkus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Analogies...are painful and overused (and yes i'm using one below). I question the accuracy of the one used but the underlying point is dead on.

      If *I* break into someone's house, steal their jewlry and rape their cat I'm still afforded due process and the ability to plead my case before a judge. Paypal/ebay OTOH are the arbitrary investigators, judge, jury, and prison warden. You're then left chasing them down begging and pleading to overturn your sentence if you feel that it's wrong or unfair.

      To make it worse, the PP TOS specifically prohibits an actual trial/court case. You "agree" to binding arbitration in their local jurisdiction and non in-person (i.e. phone/fax/email/mail) arguments. If memory serves there's even a penalty clause if you file a lawsuit (and/or file one outside of their jurisdiction - such as in your own) and they have to show up. How is this even vaugely legal? I love our court system.

      Another example of big business >>> individual person. Pretty much no one is big enough to bring a useful lawsuit against PP/ebay to fix this mess. The exception is the lawyer looking to make his/her name and get a pay day. Still doesn't help the little guy.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    4. Re:Paypal and eBay complicit by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      it's not legal, no judge in the land would uphold those terms, ESPECIALLY not on a consumer service which completely lacked any actual signing or contract negotiation.

      if ANY company tries that shit with you the best course of action is to politely or impolitely as you wish, instruct them to choke on a bag of dicks.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    5. Re:Paypal and eBay complicit by jmdc · · Score: 1

      They exempt themselves with their TOS which all of their users must agree to (mostly without understanding or even reading them!)

    6. Re:Paypal and eBay complicit by torkus · · Score: 1

      HAHA i agree. In fact i almost filed a suit in local (NY) small claims court against PP recently. Luckily i badgered them enough to get a "courtest refund" of the ~$200 they took away from me.

      I'd love to see how they'd attempt to collect that penalty charge? Debit my PP account? ROFL

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    7. Re:Paypal and eBay complicit by pxlmusic · · Score: 1

      PP tried to fuck me out of $500 for an auction that was sold to someone apparently using a bad or stolen credit card. A month after the transaction was done and the item shipped, they asked for details regarding the auction. I complied and sent all requested e-mails and data straightaway.

      I thought everything was fine until a month later, I got an e-mail telling me that the charge was being reversed -- *I* had to pay that $500.

      Well, I went around in circles with their support for another month or so after that. I had printed e-mails (including the one they say they didn't receive) with complete headers faxed to their office. I finally reached some douchebag in customer support who claimed to be the highest level of contact before the executives. I asked him if what he was telling me was that because they somehow "missed" an e-mail from me, that they were going to try and stick me with the bill. He didn't have an answer; so, I informed him that I was not satisfied with that answer and would be calling an attorney. I bid him a good day.

      20 seconds later, I got a call from him saying that he would negate the charge "as a one-time courtesy".

      But..he *did* reverse the charge. But it took 3 months to do.

      --
      "If for any reason you're not satisfied with our service, I hate you."
  25. Re:Best fake check ever! by eudaemon · · Score: 1

    Smart man to be suspicious. Not to be a pedantic jerkwad, but you mean "MICR" ink, sir.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MICR

    Just a friendly a note since we are all a bunch of nerds who like to take interesting tangents
    and learn new things anyway.

  26. Re:Best fake check ever! by houghi · · Score: 1

    So you are withhelding evidence. Thanks.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  27. REAL COMPANIES by zoomshorts · · Score: 1

    Already have their own banks and accounts. Enough said.

    Why on earth would anyone fall for this drivel?

    Desperation, sure, but more likely stupidity based
    on ignorance.

  28. Real Money Mules by flyneye · · Score: 1

    If those stupid scammers only realized how much an actual REAL money mule makes,they would shut off their computers and buy plane tickets.
              I personally knew a money mule who moved money around Asia,several Pacific islands and a bit in South America.Some of her clients included Rulers and a well known ex-dictators surviving family.Her career lasted 5 years and she amassed million$ for herself. Retired,bought an ashram,all before she hit her mid thirties.
              It wasn't without hazards tho.She survived an assassination attempt in a hotel in the Philippines,escaped a mugging by being armed herself and just generally by being a white American constantly flying in and out of those locales.
      k,thats my story now you may continue.

    --
    *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    1. Re:Real Money Mules by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 1

      Wow! I just got an email from the family of a murdered African dictator wanting help to transfer some money. I thought it was a scam until I saw your message. I'm gonna be rich!

      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
    2. Re:Real Money Mules by flyneye · · Score: 1

      I suppose you didn't get that this was an actual courier not an online thing.
      It is an actual profession.For the rich there are many reasons to move money from island to island,bank to bank,country to country.Not all the reasons are moral or honest.Covering up embezzlement from the countries funds is one,protecting personal riches(including jewelry,stock certificates,etc.)from a revolutionary minded citizenry is another.Just plain findin' the best interest rates or keepin' em guessing where you keep it is another.This story also takes place in the mid 90's before you could get enough bandwidth with that pre 14400 modem to download a picture in 5 minutes let alone spam emails w/a scam that hadn't materialized yet.
      MrNiceguy_KS,I'm from KS too,don't give us a bad name.In the Immortal proclamation of J.R.Bob Dobbs "If you act like a dumbshit,they'll treat you as an equal."

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    3. Re:Real Money Mules by MrNiceguy_KS · · Score: 1
      For the record, I was joking. (I figured that would be obvious.) I realize you were talking about someone working as an actual courier -- it's kinda hard to pull off an assassination attempt over the internet.

      As far as that scam not materializing yet in the days of 14400 modems, the Nigerian 419 scam predates the internet. My last job was in the IT department at a bank. One day at lunch I was discussing the scam with a co-worker and one of the loan officers mentioned a customer back in the 80's who had brought in a letter with pretty much the same exact text as all the standard 419 emails. Of course, they're a lot more common today with email allowing much wider distribution.

      --
      Redundancy is good And also good.
    4. Re:Real Money Mules by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Apparently the 419 scam was pretty common after the French revolution. No doubt it goes back even further than that.

    5. Re:Real Money Mules by flyneye · · Score: 1

      Yup, lying to talk money out of others pockets could be as old as money.

      --
      *Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
    6. Re:Real Money Mules by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      I don't know about the French revolution, but the Spanish Prisoner scam is basically a version of the 419 scam that is at least a century old.

  29. Not really the same... by sirwired · · Score: 1

    If someone breaks into my house, steals my stuff, and puts it in their house, I am not allowed to just go into the thief's house and steal it back. I am required to give them the due process of law, file criminal charges, provide evidence to the prosecution, and let the jury decide.

    Ah, but if the money is deposited into a bank, the laws governing ECH transactions (Electronic Clearing House) absolutely state that fraudulent transactions can be reversed. PayPal is sort of Bank-like, so I imagine that their terms of service state that unless somebody steals access to your account, you are liable for any activity that takes place in it, including fraud, just like the banks. If it was a real bank account, it would be no different.

    Certainly, if you want to fight the dispute, you can duke it out in court... Conversely, if PayPal/the Bank decides the disputer is in the wrong, they can duke it out in court too.

    If criminal A breaks into the house of victim B, stashes the stuff in victim C's house before moving it to their own house, victim C's landlord can't just decree that victim C has to pay back victim B for the loss.

    If physical goods are involved (a "Shipping Mule"), then you, the middle-man, aren't technically for anything. The tricky part is convincing the cops/jury you are an unwitting dupe, as opposed to somebody that knew what was going on.

    SirWired

  30. Re:Paypal is not a court of law by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    But that doesn't answer anything. It just redirects the question.

    Since when does Paypal get to decide who is responsible for fraud?

  31. Re:Best fake check ever! by mspohr · · Score: 1
    I had a piano advertised for sale on Craigslist. I received a 'certified' check from a UK postal service (I'm in California) for more than the amount I was asking along with instructions to 'just have FedEx pick up the piano for delivery' and please send them a check for the excess payment.

    This gave me a good laugh on several levels. They must have been really desperate...

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  32. Why can't you just rip them off? by swb · · Score: 1

    I seem to remember reading about a similar scam where items are bought with stolen credit, shipped to a "mule" who then repackages them and sends them off, generally outside the U.S. These mules have no physical contact with their handlers.

    I always wondered why these mules didn't either selectively ship stuff off (hey, international shipping is dodgy..) or just wait until there was enough "good" stuff on hand that they wanted and then sever ties. The same thing holds true with cash transfers -- just wait until there's a large enough sum and keep it.

    It might be harder with wire transfers if they know identity infomation about you, but generally speaking you're not dealing with the kind of organized crime that might come after you, and even if you were, a clever person could set themselves up with a more-or-less fake identity up front before getting themselves recruited, thus making it almost impossible to get "caught".

    1. Re:Why can't you just rip them off? by bcattwoo · · Score: 1

      I think the cash transfer scams tend to offer pretty hefty commissions in the 10% range. That is a nice cut for so little effort and most people would be wary of giving that up on an ongoing basis for a one-time score. Plus for those that even question the legality of what they are doing, it crosses the line into definite criminal behavior and if you got caught it would be much harder to claim to be an innocent co-victim of the scam. Knowing how these scams work, you would be just as big of a slimeball for keeping the money/goods.

    2. Re:Why can't you just rip them off? by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      would you like to roll your [fake identity] skill against the russian mob's [hunt you down and kill you] skill. since you had to give them an address close enough to get the money all your rolls are at +1 and all their rolls are at -1.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  33. Re:Paypal is not a court of law by dave420 · · Score: 1

    Does it say that a particular jurisdiction has found them guilty of fraud? Nope. Fraud can be decided by anyone - you're confusing that with a court of law charging someone with fraud. As everyone using PayPal's service are bound by their Ts&Cs, they have every right to call fraud on anything on their network should they want to.

  34. Degree is optional if you are willing to work hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Posting as AC cause I don't want this to come off as bragging.

    So I don't have a degree, it's kind of a humorous dramatization but technically accurate to say that "I'm a high school dropout with a GED"(*) but I have management job and make $125k, working for a very old Fortune 50 company (where you might expect that a degree would be a pre-requisite) no less

    It involved a little bit of foresight/luck, I chose to specialize in Microsoft technology in the early-mid 1990s while Netware and Unix still ruled the world.

    It involved a lot of hard work and the ability to consistently rise above my peers both in technical ability and professional behavior.

    To be sure I've faced challenges in my carer due to my lack of degree, in each of these cases it was where a degree was an absolute requirement, in many cases today a lack of degree is a barrier to entry, also I realize it's unlikely that I'll ever get a CIO/CTO job at any large sized company. But a degree is not, and definitely should not be a requirement to get a well paying, professional job.

    * I was bored in high school so I took my local states version of the GED and left high school after my Junior year (big mistake in retrospect) and then a few years later took the actual GED for national recognition. My high school refused to disenroll me because I wasn't yet 18 so I just stopped going because I was too stubborn to have one of my parents come in and disenroll.

  35. Re:Best fake check ever! by canUbeleiveIT · · Score: 3, Funny
    If all else fails, take it to a bank and ask them to run it through their MICR reader before depositing it.

    This is a good idea and will help catch most frauds, but many people have access to a MICR check encoder. I worked for a Fortune 100 retailer and they had one in every store, and they were hardly kept under lock and key. Also, if one were an enterprising criminal, one might just buy one.

    Obviously, the ultimate (and very elegant) coup de grâce would be to buy it with a fraudulent check.

  36. Re:Best fake check ever! by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

    I still have that check on my fridge. How did you manage to keep it? Banks and/or police usually confiscate counterfeit currency when they come across it, in order to prevent you from passing it on the next victim (... and it is also valuable evidence against the original scammer...)
  37. Recruit mail sample? by ledvinap · · Score: 1

    This is probably recruit mail for this kind of think? (doesn't seem like usual phishing to me...)
    And ... loking on the text, the whitespace seems a little bit too misplaced ... so some hidden ID? (hope it's not my mail in plain ;-) )

    Good Day,

    Would you love to work online and earn good money without affecting your present job if you have one?,our company Lacrosse Furnishers here in USA is in need of a cashing officer in the European union .A reliable person who can receive payment on our behalf from our customers in the europan union ,it will be made payable to your name so all you need do is to take the payment of cashiers check to your bank,get it cashed and then deduct your seven percent and send the balance to our company's account officer here in the USA or as later instructed.

    If you meet these conditions please contact us by replying to
    the e-mail address below with the following information.

    Full Name.
    Full Address(not P.O. box).
    City,State,Zip Code.
    Phone Number (S).
    Age.
    Occupation.

    Reply to lacrossfurniture@gmail.com

    Thanks
    Steve Cooper
    Lacrosse Furnisher USA

  38. college degrees don't get you rich either. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is good advice to grow up and get real, there's no getting rich quick... but go to college for a job to make 100k/yr? That's rich? How much do you spend for a degree that will let you make 100k/yr? How many slashdot readers have college degrees that made them rich? Please speak up.

    The truth is, and the evidence bears this out, you want to be rich, get the entrepreneurial spirit and strike out on your own in a legitimate business that requires your hard work and insight. Few people get rich working for other people versus starting your own business and succeeding. It isn't a quick process though, it takes years, but once the business is established, it does get easier.

    My most successful friends mostly don't have college degrees. What they do have is a desire* to succeed, a belief that they can succeed, and a willingness to work for it. In my own experience, college teachers are people who've never had to cut it in the real world, what are they going to teach you that you can't learn in a book on your own time? If you get access to great teachers at a great school, that's one thing, but for most people, the local state university is going to turn them into slightly higher paid wage slaves at best.

    *Note: desire is not the same as having some daydream of being rich.

    1. Re:college degrees don't get you rich either. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I spent about $12k getting a degree that I don't use. 10 years later, I got my sixth figure on my base pay. (Including bonuses, I hit the sixth figure about 18 months earlier.)

      Guarantee? No. Helpful? Yes. But it still takes hard work, dedication, and passion.

    2. Re:college degrees don't get you rich either. by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Is it just me that finds this situation funny (generalizations, so if it isn't you, feel free to ignore)?

      Slashdot readers want to get rich.
      Slashdot readers have something to do with computers/software.
      Slashdot readers want the world to be taken over by Free (as in beer) and Open Source Software.
      Not very many people have been able to make money at FOSS (the whole free thing gets in the way of profits).

      I want to write some ECSS application (Expensive Closed Source Software), sell the rights to some big company and live comfortably for the rest of my life.....and maybe even do it more than once.

      1. Write ECSS application
      2. Sell application to customers
      3. Sell software rights to some big company
      4. Profit
      5. Repeat steps 1 through 4 until ( $$$ >= need )

      See, a complete plan.

      Layne

    3. Re:college degrees don't get you rich either. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can add as many figures as you want to your pay, as long as you are willing to accept them being to the right of the decimal point.

  39. Re:Best fake check ever! by iminplaya · · Score: 1

    ...were standard ink, not magnetic...I still have that check on my fridge.

    Now wait a second...If the ink's not magnetic, how does it...oh...ok...nevermind.

    --
    What?
  40. Re:Best fake check ever! by clonan · · Score: 1

    Remember, a check/money order is not currency.

    Banks are requiered to confiscate counterfeit currency and are the only non-federal government organizations that can hold counterfeit money without risking prosecution.

    However a check is not subject to such restrictions. Once you try to deposite the check it becomes the property of the bank and they will deliver it to the FBI or whoever. But there is no crime in mearly HOLDING a bad check, only exercising it.

    I never tried to cash the check (since I would have been cahrged $30+) I only asked them to confirm the money order was legit...which they could not.

    I called up Money Gram and told them about the bad check and they told me to destroy it if I wanted to....I decided to keep it as a reminder.

  41. Re:Best fake check ever! by clonan · · Score: 1

    Actually, the bank never asked for it and money gram told me I could keep it if I wanted after I offered to send it to them.

  42. Why be a money mule? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trust me, it's much better being a drug mule.
    It is much easier and less painful to swallow some balloons of coke or smack than to shove that bank-drive-thru cylinder in my rectum.
    Ouch.

  43. Common Sense? by jantman · · Score: 1

    Yes, I feel sorry for the people caught in the middle of this - and especially for the EBay buyers who don't know how to check out a potential seller, and get pinched. I was screwed over on ebay once, though from a seller with relatively high feedback who seemed to turn bad (though I did end up getting my item, with assistance from some friends in the local police detective bureau ;) ).

    But realistically... if people are so stupid to fall for this, don't they deserve it? I don't see it as being any different from walking down the street and a man in a dark alley asks you to drive this car to a user car dealer, when you sell it you get to keep 10%. Most people are supposed to find something fishy about that.

    The bottom line is that the solution lies in education of the Internet citizenry. If people aren't smart enough to figure out what's kosher and what isn't (like doing a Google search for the company and seeing more than one almost identical web site with different contact information, or even better pulling WhoIs data) then there's a serious problem in security education. Moreover, I wonder how many people, who gave away PayPal information, would give their ATM PIN code to someone they've never met?

    This being said, I went to high school with a kid - not the sharpest tool in the shed - who got an email a few years ago stating that if he deposited $5,000 in this offshore account, a month later they'd pay him $8,000. He did it - used almost all of his savings. He waited the month. He tried to contact them. Only two months later did he walk into the police department and tell them that he gave all of his money to a man from Nigeria who promised to give him more back, but he never got anything...

  44. Greed drives cons by pyrr · · Score: 1

    I don't feel all that sorry for the people who fall for these scams. The cons are preying on their greed, and all it takes is a little common sense to realize if you have no special qualifications, nobody is just going to email you out of the blue and hand you huge bundles of cash to basically do trivial tasks. The only qualifications for most of these tasks are:

    • Live in the USA
    • Have a bank or Paypal account
    • Be greedy and gullible
    • Have a pulse

    These scams work because the first can be tailored to match whatever demographic the scammer is pursuing, the second is the way the scammer profits (can't extract blood from a turnip, after all), and almost everyone meets the last two qualifications.

    This is most certainly NOT "money laundering", the money's not dirty or ill-gotten. It's a trick whereby a scammer makes a "sale", has the greedy victim accept the payment, and then forward the bulk of the money...but having accepted the money makes the victim criminally liable for the fraud since they become an unwitting accomplice.

    It's much the same situation with a newer version of this scam I discovered on eBay a year or so ago. I bought an item at a too-good-to-be-true price, knowing it was probably a fraud...but made sure I kept myself covered. I made the payment via Paypal (to an account with a few hundred transactions and in good standing), expecting not to receive a product and then just having to file a chargeback. I received the product though, and it was everything that was advertised. I got even more suspicious when I saw who shipped it (one of the largest internet/brick & mortar retailers), and observed that their retail prices were far higher. Putting the pieces together, I alerted the mule and the retailer quickly, got my money back and halted the scam before the the scammer had managed to get any of the money. The icing on the cake was when she asked me if I wanted to be a mule too, giving me a few more details about who and where "she" was (probably another level of separation in there, but who knows...I passed along the info I was able to extract).

    How that version of the scam worked was that the scammer lines up a mule, often with a good reputation and a Paypal account. The scammer sells something, directs payment to be made to the mule, and then pays for the item itself with a stolen credit card, instructing the merchant to ship the item to the "real" customer's address. The customer then receives the goods, thinks all is well, the mule's money is good and gets forwarded, and the merchant eventually loses because they chose to ship to an address that they failed to take the simplest fraud prevention action on, verifying that it is a legitimate address for the credit card used to pay for the transaction, though they theoretically could try to pin it on the customer.

    The best way to avoid fraud continues to be to realize if a deal or job prospect seems too good to be true, it probably is, and to do whatever you can to verify the trustworthiness of anyone you're sending money to unless you have a way of protecting yourself. If you wouldn't just give them YOUR hard-earned money and trust them to look out for your own best interests, you shouldn't be engaging in any financial transactions with them, period.

    1. Re:Greed drives cons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they failed to take the simplest fraud prevention action on, verifying that it is a legitimate address

      In 6 years of working with various CC processors, I'll tell you that address verification is anything but simple. Banks refuse to fix their bank card system to match the operation of credit cards, meaning that if someone puts in a CC number and gets their address wrong, no harm is done; while someone putting in a debit card number and the address fails validation, the bank takes the money out of the customer's account anyways. After the customer tries a few different abbreviations for the street name, it finally starts rejecting because the customer's bank account is empty, at which point the merchant ends up with screaming customers threatening legal action while the merchant's underpaid first level support tries to figure out what the hell is going on before finally getting the bank's customer service number and spending an hour on hold before finally getting to talk to the right person to release the funds... that is, as soon as someone from the merchant calls back with the merchant account number used to bill the transaction.

      Now most people who do validation just use the zip code, because people usually get that right.

    2. Re:Greed drives cons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use gethuman.com and livehuman.com to find out how to get to a real human quickly at CC and other companies when calling them on the telephone.

  45. Isn't Bob Williamson wasting his time? by mbstone · · Score: 1

    If somebody is brain-dead enough not to recognize a scam when they see one, is such a person really going to go to Bob Williamson's site to see if the situation is listed there? Conversely, if someone is not brain-dead, do they really need a list of money-mule scams? Aren't they easily recognizable??

  46. You got lucky by Solandri · · Score: 1

    The last person I heard of in the same situation as you was arrested, jailed, and spent $14,000 defending himself. If you're at all uncertain about the legitimacy of a check, make sure you explain it to the bank before you ask them to verify it or cash it.

    1. Re:You got lucky by clonan · · Score: 1

      I did exactly that. I told them that I received a large check from someone I have not yet done business with and asked if they could confirm the check was legit first.

      There is no criminal violation for HOLDING a bad check, only attempting to exercise it. So as long as you aren't trying to get money you are in no way violating any law.

      Even holding bad currency is technically a federal offence unless you are a bank however the FBI doesn't prosecute you unless you have a lot on you etc.

    2. Re:You got lucky by clonan · · Score: 1

      I noticed there has been no recent update. My bet is that he got all his money back from the people who actually screwed up...the police and DA. By every deffinition of the word he was assaulted and kidnapped.

      He was handcuffed, told to shut up and refused his civil rights. The police violated him NOT BofA. BofA did everything right except for not speaking with him first.

      I am not surprised at all that BofA didn't send him 14K

  47. MICR by kbahey · · Score: 1

    It is not micker, but rather MICR (Magnetic Ink Character Recognition).

    I worked with MICR equipment for several years, and it is a surprise that the ink is not magnetized. Several years ago, we found that laser ink will not be magnetized, and we did flagging of the cheque as a fraud suspect based on that fact (OCR will read a line, but MICR will not). Then recently we started seeing that laser ink is now magnetized and that method for fraud detection is no longer valid. I think inkjet was also magnetized.

  48. Actually, money DOES grow on trees... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    ... absolute idiots who think that money grows on trees and don't know that when something seems to good to be true it usually is ...

    Actually, (US) money DOES grow on trees - under the bark - and on cotton plants. But it has to be processed through the US mint and the Federal Reserve system.

    It's not backed with anything (except the willingness of the government to accept it as tax payments and the force of government to invoke against US-based creditors who refuse to take it at face value to pay off debts). The government and (within certain rules) the Federal Reserve banks can print as much as they want - diluting the value of the existing cash, bank accounts, and other dollar-denominated assets and transferring this value to themselves.

    And the whole house of cards can collapse very rapidly - "hyperinflation" - when people stop trusting it.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  49. Sir... by phyruxus · · Score: 1

    Your ideas intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    --
    "A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
    "d'Oh!" ~Homer
  50. Re:Odd coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you reformat your resume yet?

    It's not like you have anything else better to do.

  51. Puhleeze by EdIII · · Score: 1

    hundreds or thousands of dollars?

    I got a Nigerian willing to give me a 10 million commission if I can help him get 75 million dollars to the US and help him invest it.

    You got to wait for the good deals people....

  52. Nigerian Mule Scam by Xylene2301 · · Score: 1

    This might be slightly tangent but I found really funny as I am a big H.P. Lovecraft fan: http://tinyurl.com/52fy