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Japan Launches "Super-Speed" Internet Satellite
A number of readers wrote in about the launch this morning of a Japanese H-2A rocket carrying a Kizuna ("Winds") satellite into orbit. Kizuna is intended to provide "super high-speed data transmission" for Japan and Southeast Asia. The news stories on the launch, such as the AP's linked here, are short on technical detail. For example they say the satellite successfully achieved orbit 175 miles above the earth — hardly suitable for Internet communications to a specific area on the surface (remember Teledesic?). Reader nebulus4 provided a link to the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency site with an illustration and a little more detail. Such as the fact that Kizuna is destined for geosync orbit, and that a 45-cm antenna will equip eventual users for 155 Mbps down / 6 Mbps up, whereas a 5-m antenna will allow enterprises and ISPs to tap into 1.2 Gbps down. Given the latency to geosync orbit, you probably wouldn't want to use Kizuna to play an online shooter.
Don't let them get nukes!!
...the RIAA and MPAA today announced a plan to knock the satellite out of orbit with a missile to "protect the public".
Super Latency!
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
I'm not going to waste my time with this version 1 "Super" speed
version 2 is going to give me "Hyper Mega" Speed and that's when *I* will jump on the bandwagon.
...would be a kamikaze mission.
So a subsistence farmer in rural Indonesia gets a better download speed than me, a sophisticated suburban Australian. Awesome.
22,233 miles to the satellite
round trip = times 4 = 88,932 miles
speed of light (wave propagation) = 186,282 mi/sec
latency = 88,932 / 186,282 = 0.477 seconds (on top of regular network latency)
Curse you speed of light. You win again!
More
Countries that don't have niggers in the population develop the best technology.
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/Japan_successfully_launches_high-speed_Internet_satellite_999.html
Problem is, a Molniya orbit requires three satellites for coverage at the apogee, which is at about the same altitude as the geosynchronous orbit. At the perigee the satellites move faster, so you need more of them to keep one always on sight.
Who for a brief moment thought "Wait, they've developed a satellite with internet access that orbits the earth at insanely high speeds?" or something similar? Sleep-depraved mind FTW. :p
systemd is not an init system. It's a GNU replacement.
175 miles is the separation altitude for the rocket. Satellites usually boost themselves to geostationary orbit. The Delta IV heavy can blast all the way to geostationary orbit but no-one can afford it.
IT SUCKS!!! I install WildBlue, 1 of the 2 main Sat. ISP's. It doesn't matter how fast the connection speed is, the latency SUCKs. It averages 1200-1800 ms (no that's not a typo, check it out if you want). You can not play online games, outside of backgammon. The only thing I can say for it is, it is better than dial-up, although you can play some online games w/dial-up.
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
Just like shooting skeet.
With regards to latency, it's pretty hard to make light go faster, well, then light. Damn you physics!
This might seem like a stupid question, but why would there be latency with a satellite link? With radio waves traveling at the speed of light what difference is 175 miles going to make?
I always thought the reason for latency was a combination of signals going through slower copper wires and being processed by various routers and servers along the way.
Can someone clear this up?
Did they paint it red so it'll go 3 times faster than a normal Satellite connection?
Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
Any Idea how the uplink is supposed to work? Can thousands of 45cm dish all communicate with the satellite at 36,000km simultaneously? I know that years ago you needed a DSL/Dial-up connection for the uplink, is the not the case anymore?
is something to solve the last "175 mile problem." Okay. What if we replace all of that empty space with something that we'll call "FIBER". Only instead of running all of the fiber to the satellite and back we could just run it over land. Barring any service interruptions by 30 story lizards breathing fire all over the data center this might just work!
load "$",8,1
This means that new series are available to fansubbers even sooner than previously ! Yarrrr !
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
With all this reliance on satellite technology for GPS, communications, and weather prediction what happens when (not if) the sun hits a more active solar cycle eliminating all of these satellites in one fell swoop? We have become terribly dependent on satellite technology (that I agree is cool). However, there have been solar storms that would knock out all of our satellites in recent memory -- only we did not have any satellites up yet. Now the satellites are up and the next large solar storm is just lurking out there getting ready to strike.
As usual, beware any significant reliance on any one technology.
From my calculations the latency to go up to the satellite and come back would be about 1ms. I don't think that's bad latency at all. Am I missing something here? What I did: 281,635.2m / 299,792,458m/s = 0.00093s
ISPs complain about having videos delivered through their networks, or that upgrading their networks (fiber) to support video delivery would be too expensive. Here is the solution ! Put a satellite in orbit above US for massive data delivery (big (sec) latency is not an issue when starting to watch an HD movie), and keep the old "pipe" network for web apps, games (low (msec) latency).
:)
Actually, I think that US gov should put such satellite in orbit and rent it to ISPs, but that the socialist in me talking
This country needs true high-speed internet to compete with the rest of the world. How ironical it is, that a big part of the web innovation comes from the US, but most of us can not even access it (online gaming, VoIP, IPTV, etc.) ? Hopefully, the next president will understand the advantage to have a high-speed internet available in the country.
This should help with broadband penetration. I know, you'll never be able to use it for gaming. However, when the US isn't on a top ten list of connected countries, its really sad. Something like this could help those in very rural areas get connected.
The name of the satellite has been mistranslated: 'kizuna' () means bonds (as in 'family bonds') and not 'winds', which makes a lot more sense given the satellite's function.
I had thought the same thing, but that's not correct. If you look at the JAXA page on the nickname, Kizuna is the nickname and the official name is WINDS (spelled all uppercase) which is an acronym. It's very confusing though.
Geo-stationary sattelite + (Information) Teleportation = 0 Latency
It's up there now...until the United States decides to shoot it down.
okinawa japan
Any satellite is power limited due to Shannon's law. That a 2.7 ton satellite in space can generate one (1) link at 1.2GBps to a dish 15 feet accross is the reality.
It's not only gamers and users of VoIP who can't tolerate the latency of a geostationary satellite; neither can ordinary web surfers or many other users of TCP. Ask anyone who uses Hughes DirectNet or WildBlue. A modern web page builds in many transactions and is "optimized" for latencies in measured in milliseconds; not half a second as this satellite will have at best. File transfer protocols also depend on interaction altho less so. Latency can be MORE important than bandwidth in determining the usefulness of an Internet connection. More at http://blog.tomevslin.com/2008/02/japans-internet.html
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It seems to be somewhat of a JAXA convention to have a Japanese nickname and an English official name. If you take a look at their lunar probe project, it is referred to as KAGUYA(SELENE).
node-def: a tactical hacking sim. Now in open beta.
3.76ms? How do you figure? I used 175 miles * 2 = 350. 350/186,000 = 1.8ms, or does latency to a satellite take 4 trips?
How are people computing latency?
I saw this on the BBC News website:
"Data sent over fibre optic networks is subject to the limitations of the speed of light, which means interactivity between the server and gamer will never have a latency below 70 milliseconds."
70ms latency being a minimum over fiber optic networks? Is the speed of light slowed down in fiber optic cables?
Speed of light would normally be able to travel over 13000 miles (>20800km) in 70ms. But the same article was claiming that consoles were on the way out and that 'flash' would be used to write online games, so maybe the technical expertise in that article is lacking a bit?
How many people can get 1.2GB/s at the same time using this satellite? How much does the satellite dish to download and upload to the satellite cost? What is the expected price to connect using this satellite? Will customers be charged per GB transfered or a flat fee per month for a certain bandwidth? Is the bandwidth dedicated to each user or delivered at best effort depending on the bandwidth used by the other customers in the region or on the whole satellite? Someone please answer. I can't find any clear information in any of the reports on this story. If this satellite provide unlimited cheap wireless bandwidth, then I wouldn't understand why we aren't all using those, and why we aren't sending such satellites to cover Africa and other areas of the world that hasn't got a lot of broadband yet.
What does latency mean if you're downloading a 5GB file? There are some applications that need low latency, some that need hight bandwidth. Why can't a network infrastructure can do both, and use smart routing to pick the right route for the job?
"Super-Speed," eh? How much faster does it orbit than other satellites?
2. WINDS is an acronym for Wideband IntNetworking engineering and Demonstration Satellite.
3. Kazuna (WINDS) is the Satellite (PROJECT) name.
4. The key part in the project name is "engineering and Demonstration." This means, kiddies, that it is a demonstration of the engineering requirements for a satellite network that will be used for:
a. emergency and/or disaster communications where all you need is a frickin' dish in case all other forms of land-based equipment are destroyed, unusable or inaccessible.
b. medical treatment for remote areas using hi-resolution imagery transmitted to specialists.
c. education for remote areas.
Your broadband internet service in the west is still in the last century (or non-existent), so you might want to look in the mirror before you leap into making fun of something you haven't even read about. It is not intended for gaming, you frickin' dolts.
For what it's worth, none of the Japanese I know whose jobs get anywhere close to rockets and/or nuclear devices are at all interested in revenge for Hiroshima. The few crazies who don't understand MAD and don't understand the economics of letting us handle their defense basically aren't allowed to work any job at all.
There are other things to worry about before worrying about whether Japan had nuclear missiles.
Computer memory is just fancy paper, CPUs just fancy pens with fancy erasers; the 'net is just a fancy backyard fence.
got tentacle?
But. Why can't we use the already existing technology to provide (initially) slow but "pervasive" internet access everywhere? The developed world could easily afford to build a network of satellites that provides both "super-speed" data capabilities for their own wealthy subscribers while offering slower but free access to anyone else interested. Free internet access (ie. communications), independent of the policies of local regimes, could easily be considered a modern human right.
Instead of the token complaints of lack of media and communication freedoms in countries like China and their vassal dictatorships in North Korea and Burma, the West could give these oppressed people access to the outside world, and the ability to communicate within their local "firewalls" without pervasive state monitoring. Of course the possession of unauthorized (ie. fully monitored) communication devices is criminalized in such countries, so the devices would have to be not only affordable but also compact, perhaps identical to existing smartphones or PDAs. In places where satellite dishes are allowed or somewhat tolerated, there should be a way of converting existing dish/decoder combos into simple internet terminals.
I've no doubt that this could be done, but thanks to Dubuya's misguided quasi-religious "war of terror" and "partnering" with the likes of Putin and Hi Jintao (aka the Butcher of Tibet) and the resulting labelling of occupied Tibetans as "terrorists", the USA in particular seems to be in no mood for creating freedom of communications in such "partnering" countries, not when their dominant corporations would see no financial incentives in creating such network and in any case they tend to be extremely friendly with the ruling Chinese regime already. And god forbid if those dangerous prayer and freedom(!)-chanting Tibetan "terrorists" would be able to use their own language to communicate freely and even "terrorize" the occupying Chinese army with details of their oh-so-liberating policies in Tibet!
Where's the union of peace- and freedom-loving democracies when we'd need it?
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
Besides the latency that everyone wants to talk about lets talk about raw bandwidth.
In the US top speed for residential satellite broadband in the US is about 1.5Mbps down and 256kbps up, even in KA and Ku band. That's also expensive. Surely this sat is not going to sell 155Mbps down and 6Mbps straight to a residential customer?
As someone so fracked over by the lack of broadband in the US that I'm super familiar with satellite internet I'm gonna be totally pissed if Japan has something 100 times as fast at probably half the cost. What regulators can I stab with a pitchfork? Where is the family of the telecom executive I can kidnap and torture for revenge?
serious business web pages can leave most of that bloated interactive crap behind. Buying and selling and monitoring business can be done old-school: ssl and text and small images and forms.
Even the maps and TV listings of yahoo have become just fucking annoying with all that interactive bullshit, classic mode is the way to go.
web developers can quit turning webdom into a fucking goddam pinball machine.
Surprisingly, "fuck comcast" (in quotes) resulted in only 4190 hits.
Although twice as many, still less than I'd have thought.
I'm reading this while testing HughesNet's new SPACEWAY satellite. I'd love to know more details about how they've allocated their resources to get that kind of bandwidth.
/Disclaimer, I work for Hughes.
This has been a very big issue for many Global Networks, and that about 95% complaints, internationally, have been over Australians with the complaint "Aye! Yankee AdMINS!!!, why do i get so much lag an dropped all the time?!!??!" which is basically because they are in the nowhere zone when it comes to networks.. they receive 100% of they're information via satellite which as several Private Corporations including Nasa, as well have been wanting a more World Wide instantaneous connection for the entire world..
Having a instantaneous connection allows a broader range of connectivity so none of the Australians or other out of reach networks such as naval vassals, an what not, can Google at light speed an a lot more quickly then they have before.. Which the new satellites primarily aimed for media Internet Bandwidth so that all them happy Japaneses can not loose any data packets or connection loss when ever people are Buying merchandise on Sony.com...(jk)
This isn't for just Asian countries this is for the entire world.. Which one of many that are planned to get up around the globe.. So that all our friends in the corners of the globe can stay.. better connected was the prime reason of theses new coming satellites that are being launched.. I can hear all the Australian gamers cheering cause they're unbelievable latency(lag) is comming to a end!
Well, I do live in South-East Asia (Indonesia), and I'm not as concerned about the latency issues as everyone else seems to be. The reason is that, for most people, internet access is slow anyway. Home connections are all capped at 128kb/s, even in the capital city. Cell phone time is dirt cheap, text messages even cheaper, so VOIP is not that big a concern for us (BTW, North Americans really get ripped off by phone companies). A 1/2 second latency delay in opening a web page isn't that big a deal, if it will take 10-20 seconds to get the page anyway. For people outside the big cities, I think this could be A Good Thing indeed. Dean
The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures (Junius)