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German Police Raid 51 CeBIT Stands Over Patent Claims
LeCaddie writes "Last week German investigators raided 51 exhibitor stands at CeBIT, the German information technology fair in Hanover, looking for goods suspected of infringing patents. Some 183 police, customs officers, and prosecutors raided the fair on Wednesday and carried off 68 boxes of electronic goods and documents including cellphones, navigation devices, digital picture frames, and flat-screen monitors. Of the 51 companies raided, 24 were Chinese. Most of the patents concerned were related to devices with MP3, MP4, and DVB standard functions for digital audio and video, blank CDs, and DVD copiers, police said." In the US there are no criminal penalties associated with patents, and such a raid could not be conducted, especially in the absence of a court ruling of infringement.
Guess that's the last time there'll be another IT fair in Germany.
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
So you're a patent holder, and you file a claim of DMCA-related noise, or similar, and Homeland Security and/or FBI goes and burns your competitor down. Then afterwards, you claim "oops my bad" - meanwhile the damage is done.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
I'm sure our lobbyists and politicians will get right to work on fixing that.
So, is this from the police dept.?
This is ridiculous! For Germany to go raiding an event in this manner borders on thoughtcrime enforcement a la George Orwell's 1984. Next thing you know, they'll raid peoples' homes by random in search of expired medicines, unhealthy junk food, or materials that don't support the latest president. This sort of thing is dangerous and the German people cannot permit this to continue.
The CBit has been suffering from losing exhibitors for years now. MS quitted, Sun afaik too. What kept them afloat was Chinese companies that tried to get a foot into the market.
Large companies prefer to host their own shows. Smaller companies realized that it's cheaper and about as efficient to use the internet to reach out to prospecting customers and resellers.
Now, I'm fairly sure this is the last CBit.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The Fraunhofer Institute, who invented the MP3 and makes similar formats, is likely a source of information about the violators of at least the codec IP infringement. MP3 and many other formats aren't in the public domain in the GPL sense. They're likely behind part of this.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
..a police station just got new kit on the cheap.
foxconn was among the company products seized.
Both MS (http://www.cebit.de/suche/popup/kurzliste.html?vst_jahr=2008&vst_nummer=007&sprache=1&session=1&halle=004) and Sun (http://www.cebit.de/suche/popup/kurzliste.html?vst_jahr=2008&vst_nummer=007&sprache=1&session=1&halle=002) did attend this year's show.
The booths in question were from firms based in Poland, Hungary, and the former Czechoslovakia. It was just force of habit.
And if you happen to have a friend in the German police force, you're going to get an awesome Christmas gift from them next year!
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Today. Give the IP conglomerates a few more years of buying votes/laws and that may change. And just think, your tax dollars will be used to fund the raids on what should be a civil issue.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Yes, you Yanks won't believe that, eh? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CeBIT
Timo's Audio Software http://www.esseraudio.com
Hmm only $195 for a 4gb version? Where do i buy one? I could care less about any 'infringing' as i don't believe in IP rights.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This was mostly about cheap-ass asian style 'product piracy'. iPhone lookalikes with clear intent to be confused with the iPhone (right down to the packaging), 100% iPod shuffle ripp-offs and implementation of commercial MP3 decoders from companies who weren't paying the licencing fees to the Frauenhofer Institut.
The chinese ripping off IP is a big issue in Germany. They order a machine, dismantle it and copy it exactly, down to the last bolt and then sell cheap low-quality knock-offs of it back to Europe.
My cousin (engineer at Airbus) tells me there even is an Airbus 320 that went to China some time ago. That was it's only flight and it never appeared again. He suspects it's lying around somewhere dismantled and analysed.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Pretty much a federal government, unified basic rights, open borders, (mostly) unified currency...
The one big thing it doesn't have yet is a military.
paintball
somehow combines that activity with Patriot Act and border protection. Just a ruse is all takes to grab business intel on competition, or to deter some companies from advertising if their whole booth can be carted up and taken off. And, who'd be able to prove the "uniformed cops" were not imposters to screw over a company. Nahh, things like that just don't happen -- yet.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
This was about counterfeiting, not patent violation. Quite ridiculous as well if you ask me, but the Polizei does not raid yet for patent violations.
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
The patents claimed are the ones of Sisvel, a Philips proxytroll, who is suing every MP3 manufacturer for royalties.
They have a list of 3 or 4 software patents which belongs to the MPEG1-layer3 ISO standard, be it implemented in hardware of in software:
http://www.ipeg.com/_UPLOAD%20BLOG/Sisvel%20patents%20overview.pdf
The German police is using the criminal procedure to seize counterfeited goods, despite the fact that those patents could be challenged in court for validity.
If there are some MP3 manufacturers reading slashdot and interested to kick some of those patents for subject matter exclusion, you can contact me at zoobab@gmail.com.
Also, Philips might be the only company who is lobbying the European Union (Council and Parliament) for using criminal sanctions and freeze of bank accounts in civil proceedings for patent infringements.
Didn't something pass recently creating an "IP Police force" or something along those lines? Sounds to me like they're preparing to do exactly that.
No, actually you got it wrong. It was acknowledged by law enforcement officials that the raid was about patents. From http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/104657:
Auslöser für die Aktion waren den Angaben der Staatsanwaltschaft zufolge Strafanzeigen der Rechteinhaber. Bei der Razzia sei es vorwiegend um Patente für Datenkompressionsverfahren, DVB-Standards und DVDs gegangen, sagte Kriminaloberrat Oliver Stock, der die Aktion koordiniert hatte und sich über einen "erfolgreichen Abschluss" freute.
Bad translation (by me):
According to the public prosecutors office complaints by holders of rights were reason for the action. Law enforcement senior councillor Oliver Stock who coordinated the action and was glad about the "successfull completion" said target of the raid where mainly patents for data compression, DVB standards and DVDs.
There were some initial (wrong) reports that reason for the raid was counterfeiting (iPhone look-a-likes) but these reports were later corrected, see for example http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/104591 (in english).
Under the terms of the Schengen Agreement there are no longer any border controls between the vast majority of European countries. It is possible to drive all the way from Estonia to Portugal without needing to show your passport once.
Of course things are not quite as open as they may be in the USA. Firstly, not all countries are covered (notably missing are the UK and Ireland). Secondly, some countries require citizens to carry ID cards and visitors to carry passports, but the agreement means that you don't have to show them at the border (and you couldn't if you wanted to, since in most places there simply isn't any form of border post at all). Finally, it really only makes a big difference for land travel. Airlines and Ferry companies are still required to check identity documents for all of their passengers, and that usually means a passport.
Down the rabbit hole we go....
expandfairuse.org
And I would like to say 40 from Asia and and 11 from Europe.
The fact is, although I know the distinction is lost on some, that, while technically China, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macao are all "Chinese", they are not one culture. Heck even those from mainland China are not all one culture. I have had friends from each country and some identify more with their region than with "China" (that is especially true of those from Taiwan).
Personally I am not so troubled with your comment, which I think was made in jest. But being modded +5 informative? Why? Funny maybe, but informative, hardly.
The laugh is many of these companies (including Meizu) would not have had any legal issues if they had used the free and open source ogg format. Many games now use ogg rather than put up with the patent trolling nightmare that is MP3.
Nice troll, and quite a hot topic in the region at the moment. Interesting how an off topic, political troll got modded +5 informative. Must be a lot of pro one china types with mod points today who read slashdot before they started work. Interesting times ahead I think.
Australian running a company that does C# / C++ / Java / SQL / Python / Mathematica
Sometimes the Slashdot editors can be frustrating, but this is a good example where a quick sentence added on to the submitted summary was informative, and probably headed off a large number of misguided posts. Kudos.
Actually they are thinking about consolidating IT fairs in the Germany with the Cebit. Attendance in terms of visitors and exhibitors has dropped over the past five years such as with the "Systems" fair in Munich.. so there will certainly be another IT-Fair in Germany but with the ailing economy there it will be pretty low-key in comparison to 2000.
According to one of Germany's reputable news sources Spiegel Online (in German) early reports suspected counterfeit claims by companies such as Apple, but it has since become clear that the Italian company Sisvel has filed suit over MP3 patent infringements and thereby caused the raid of stands offering mp3/4 players et al.
There have since been further confiscations of GPS/navigation systems too.
And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
I think many people don't really regard infringing on an mp3 patent as something morally wrong.
So just pay to display your products at a booth, get raided, hope you get some _extra_ publicity, $$$.
US = 1 language, 1 history (more or less), 1 government which dictated the dance up to the point that some states smacked other states (US CIVIL war). It was called Civil war for a good reason. 1 president/head of the USA.
EU= 12 (more than that but bear with me) states, 12 languages, 12 histories (not really, but most people consider the history of THEIR countries before the one of Europe), 12 currencies, 12 head of states which went on war with each others. And no they were not called civil war. EU got started as an economic entity, USA as a political one.
I could go on, but Europe is not a country, not in the same sense as with the US. It is a loose economic federation of sovereign countries. If one decide to leave EU, AFAIK it can without getting the shit kicked out of him by the northern state / southern state. Despite having different constitution or army or whatnot, the US states are more like province under the control of a head government. And last time someone decided to leave, it did not end that well...
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
One of the Asian manufacturer CeBit stands had what seemed to me a rather politically sensitive tagline of "China price, Taiwan quality" advertising their wares.
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
I'm sure arresting fair exhibitors (guilty or not...) will encourage more next year.
I guess Vegas just got more attractive after all....
Jeruvy