Slashdot Mirror
CNN Website Targeted by DoS
antifoidulus writes "CNN is reporting that they were the target of a Denial of Service attack yesterday. According to the article, there have been reports on Asian tech sites that Chinese hackers were targeting CNN for their coverage of the unrest in Tibet. One has to wonder if this hacking attempt was government sponsored or not. The Chinese government hasn't been very happy with CNN -- in fact, the Beijing Bureau Chief has been summoned about a day before this happened."
Slashdot is working with the Chinese government to further the DOS attack on CNN by leveraging it's large and generally under-sexed user base!
If it wasn't government sponsored, then it was promulgated by some individual or group with substantial resources (a hitherto-unknown botnet, perhaps.) They need to be found out and put away for a few years. On the other hand, if it was sponsored by the Chinese leadership it means they're attempting to extend their brand of censorship worldwide. In which case, they also need to be put away for a few years.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
No, I don't, and nor does anybody else. Since when did an attack coming from a country mean the government was involved? How many domestic hacking attempts have there been against the government? Was the government hacking the government? Hardly. Given the public Chinese outcry against the West for the way we've treated the Tibet issue, isn't it quite possible, quite plausible, that a few people out of 1 321 851 888 candidates took it just a wee bit too far? Why on earth must the government be under suspicion before we even have a clue as to who did it?
-Devin Jeanpierre
The funny thing is, China is one of the few countries in the world that truly has a great big firewall sat at the border of it's internet, so is one of the few countries that actually could do something about massive unexpected loads of outgoing traffic from it's internet.
;)
I'm not defending the great firewall of China, but I think it's worth pointing out that when the goverment has that kind of control over what does and doesn't go in and out if they wanted to they could easily do something to stop these kind of accusations surrounding large scale DoS attacks unless they're happy for them to continue in which case may the stories continue.
Of course there's always captured zombie machines outside the great firewall to do the trick, but certainly here in the UK many ISPs take note of which computers are sending out suspicious traffic, I've known a couple of people have their net access disabled by their ISP for throwing out known virus traffic at least. Most responsible ISPs worldwide could no doubt do exactly the same things.
The real question is could ISPs do this without introducing "feature" creep? My guess is, no, they'd quickly use the tools for blocking bad traffic for blocking things like BitTorrent, well, those few that don't already of course
It's a shame really that the tools are out there to prevent this kind of bad traffic, and yet the bad traffic is all to often allowed through and the tools are used to filter good traffic which is certainly the case with China. There's a question of what's good and bad traffic of course, but that's a debate for another day I think.
Are we sure this was an actual atack on CNN? Could it have been that they did something right for a change and more than 10 people tried to hit their site and the server just couldn't handle it?
If it is a government sponsored attack, then it's really not very smart. It just serves to bring attention to the issue, not bury it.
Poking at big news bureaus like this doesn't make them back down. It makes them more resolute in their reporting and possibly (probably) more biased against your cause.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
I'm not saying this DoS attack is justified. However, one cannot deny that many of the CNN reports were either falsified or out of context.
I ask CNN not to look for a scapegoat on this issue ... Knowing how US companies have exhibited incompetence in the past, I will not be surprised if it is the case this time round
Right! Who needs a scapegoat? Obviously this is likely the fault of US companies. There's no point blaming someone when we can blame someone that it's more slashdot-friendly to blame. The man! Teh evil corporations!
For what it's worth, I spent most of my day yesterday in rent-a-brain mode mopping up after a web site defacement that was attempted from half a dozen Chinese IP addresses, succeeded from another one, and which was throwing JS-based redirects at browsers so they'd wind up on web sites hosted in China, where trojan-flavored malware was being served up. There's no way that a country with Draconian content sniffing and a country-wide firewall like China's doesn't know when operations like that are flourishing. FWIW, the demographics targeted in this case were mil/defense types, and the visible content on the redirected target was meant to momentarily confuse people expecting that the specific content they'd have been expecting. Year Of The Rat, indeed.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
http://www.anti-cnn.com/ clap clap clap
Run! The Germa^WCommu^WChinese are coming!
I hate printers.
I doubt they will implode. They now have amazing manufacturing capabilities -- all thanks to the many high-tech companies that outsourced everything to China.
And the way the government works over there, maybe they will just go out and kill anyone who dares to starve and charge the family for the bullet.
If China implodes, chances are good the US will have imploded before they do. And if it comes to that, do you really want any nuclear power to implode? I'm betting they would make demands of Taiwan and Tibet and if there was not cooperation, China would go to war to secure the resources.
And as to time not being on China's side, that's one thing China has always used to advantage. The plan ahead and they wait. They make 5 year plans look like child's play. Think of the Chinese water torture. They use time as an ally.
Yes, that would be interesting to know. But one of the more insightful views I've heard recently in the China vs. Tibet matter, is that "after so many years of communist rule, it is hard for Chinese people to make a distinction between government, communist party, policy and country". As a result, criticism of Chinese actions concerning Tibet may be felt not as attacks on policy, but attacks on the Chinese people and country. Don't know if that is true, but I'd welcome readers from China to comment on that.
There is a big difference between saying "you are bad" and saying "you are doing something bad". I guess the real gain is that more people (including the Chinese) are talking about Tibet now, and maybe someday the Chinese *people* will realize that Tibetans just want the same thing as the Chinese: run their own affairs, be left alone, and live in peace with their neighbors.
In general I feel that whenever 'weapons' (DoS attacks, censorship, physical force) are used to end a discussion, it means that party has run out of reasonable arguments (and in a way, admits moral defeat).
in doing a DoS attack against a major site such as CNN? It will come back online very shortly again, and it'll generate even more media fuss, hello Streisand effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect The Chinese government has no incentive to support such actions. Risk vs. gain factor alone should be enough to dismiss such thoughts.
It's pretty easy to identify a DoS/DDoS attack. Then your question becomes one of would CNN simply lie to attribute their alleged incompetence to a possibly Chinese DoS attack.
I doubt it.
Actually, the Chinese are communists.
We can rest assured that state sponsored hacking is going on. We're doing it. Google "AF Cyber Command" As to whether the Chinese government is involved, that will be difficult to ascertain with any confidence for several reasons (see Great Firewall posts above). Foremost, we didn't invent pausible deniability. The Chinese have perfected inscrutability across the centuries.
Invenio via vel creo
Disclaimer: I am no apologist for any party here, sorry for the length of this post.
.......Which is why regulations (within the PRC and other countries) can be so difficult and strong.
1 According to English Wikipedia's article "Mongolia", between 50% and 94% of Mongolians follow "Tibetan Buddhism" as their primary religion. Of course historically China is to Mongolia as the Boston Red Sox are to the New York Yankees. The relationship between Mongolia and Tibet seems to drive China's occupation of Tibet; I have yet to hear a pro-Tibet protester talk about it, it seems most germane.
2 Having had the opportunity to learn Chinese, I know that the underlying principle of The Great Firewall is to protect Chinese people from being taken advantage of by Westerners. It's a racialistic thing, it's like apartheid, so impossible to fix, Westerners can be unconscious of what they are doing in the context of other methods of thought, no matter how hard they try to be nice.
3
To relativise this set of 3 statements:
American late night talk show host Jay Leno (on NBC) often pokes fun at British people with accusations of weakness; as a fan of European soccer and of rugby, I know this to be ridiculous; Brits must hear these Leno comments with a great deal of disbelief; I have a similar disbelief for people who don't understand why the PRC government does what it does. If one knows why something is happening, then one can go ahead and do something about it. If one doesn't know why , one may as well be a puppy chasing one's own tail.
I know well, people are sincere about (obviously pertinent) complaints about the government and one keeps looking for traces of literacy in all this illiterate reasoning.
Or is it "pre-literate" reasoning? idk
Only in the most capitalistic sense of the word :P
No - !! Not the... comfy packets?!?
http://bbs.sina.com.cn/zt/w/08/attackcnn/index.shtml The banner at the top says: "Rise up! Resist the demonization of the Tibet incident! Chinese netizens, open fire on CNN and other western media!"
Lived in Beijing for a few years now and it's scary how the government controls and spins information. They allow protests when convenient, recently Careforre (bigger than CNN issue) because of the torch relay demonstrations. So it would be interesting to see if these attackers also try to take down the Careforre website. Nationalism is borderline crazy around here lately...not sure if it's the government or individuals who launched the attack...but in China the government controls the people so it all boils down to one suspect.
New View Media - Custom Website Design
Why do people suspect the Chinese government? Because the government filters, screens and heavily spins what the country receives for news. The firewall and censorship does not only include the internet...we are talking radio, tv, film, magazines, etc.
If the government wasn't so good at spinning info and forcing issues on people this would never happen. Overall Chinese people know very little about the outside world, except for what the government tells them. Chinese people would never under any circumstance do anything so risky as launching an attack on another country without permission from the government.
New View Media - Custom Website Design
Am I correct in assuming that you're saying slashdot users are normal visitors?
woah.
Ice Cream has no bones.
``One has to wonder if this hacking attempt was government sponsored or not.''
There's probably no need. The thing that many people don't seem to realize that the information chinese people in China get and the information people outside China get are very different, and what the implications of this are. I've met a number of people from China, and, simply put, there is a world of difference between what is common knowledge here and what is common knowledge there.
Where many Americans see the chinese government as a repressive tyranny that needs to be overthrown to allow the chinese people to be free, the chinese see huge economic development and modernization. Where I've heard Europeans call the One Child Policy a crime against humanity, I've heard chinese people call it an unfortunate necessity, put in place for the good of the people. The Dalai Lama? How dare he criticize the chinese who have done so many good things for him! And you may not realize it, but the chinese government is actually doing a lot of good things for the environment.
Of course, the chinese government isn't perfect, and I think everybody will agree. But, knowing what a chinese person in China does, some of the things that foreign press agencies have been saying about China are completely outrageous. And when they are also critical of your country, some people will get angry. In a large country like China, that means a lot of angry people.
Remember the flame wars that were all over the net and the media when foreigners criticized the Bush government, its warlike policies, and their attempts to deceive the American people and the world? The same thing is now happening in China. The good thing about it all is that it raises awareness, in China, about issues that are important to the rest of the world. The bad thing about it is that it seems that the criticism is being turned into evidence of a worldwide conspiracy against China.
Of course, this is the wrong way to deal with criticism. The right response would be to find the cause of the criticism and only then decide on an appropriate action. Perhaps the critics have a point and the situation should be improved. Perhaps the critics are misguided and they should be corrected. Or perhaps their criticism is unfounded - in which case the appropriate response may be to ignore them or to criticize them in turn. Silencing critics is not, I think, an appropriate response.
One really interesting question is, though, how well informed are the critics? How sure are _you_ about the real situation over in China?
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
There is no evidence Chinese water torture was ever used by the Chinese. It's about as authentic a Chinese custom as the Chinese fire drill.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
I am glad they left FOX News alone, at least they can still be contacted for news.
I am guesssing parent was one of the Chinese propagandists trying to tell us something.
/. we believe in a concept called freedom of speech. You might not be familiar with it.
Let me say this, friend, at
Now either fit in with the rest of the world - or hide behind your firewall.
Just don't try and form us into your vision of what the world should look like.
Seven Days with Ubuntu Unity
The Chinese should ignore CNN and Jack Rafferty, like everyone else. Well, I suppose it is like American Idol, and has a perverse entertainment value to many, but certainly no content. Attacking the CNN website, or protesting CNN in any way, is just noise on the audience meter, and they love it.
I would recommend all slashdot articles that are related to conspiracies and happened in the US to add the statement "One has to wonder if this XYZ was sponsored by the US government or not". Any specultaion of this kind is simply nonsense.
And then there's this recently penned Chinese pop song, Don't Be Too CNN, accusing Western media of distorting reportage on China.
"There is a big difference between saying "you are bad" and saying "you are doing something bad"."
I'm not seeing it. If you are doing something bad, that makes you "bad", because it certainly doesn't make you "good" or "neutral". Now you can argue that it is a collective generalzation at this point, but it is sort of hard to distinguish when talking about nations and their general policy, it is commonly used in conversation and people recognize that there are individual differences. The US allegedly "elected" GWB the lesser, even though individually a lot of people did not vote for him, collectively he is still the prez of all the US people, for whatever that is worth, and people elsewhere might think the US does "bad" and they conversationally link the two-even though individuals inside the us might totally disagree with this or that, their disagreement aggregate is not enough to alter what the official government of all the people does. It is enough where there is some collective "bad" there then. China as a nation occupies Tibet, a very large percentage there thinks that is totally cool, the official government does else they wouldn't do it. In their minds it is not bad and any criticism is an affront, but to a lot of people elsewhere it constitutes a collective "bad" policy making them overall "bad" because they are doing it.
First the hacker attacked from the US, then there were web addres with trojan in europe and the US. Then attacked from all of those AND had web address with trojan based in Russia/ eastern europe, now it is asia and particularly china. I don't really think this is due to the chinese government being being it, but more that it is easier to set up a trojan web site in those countries, than in the US. And easier to cover your trace.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
"Cafferty used the microphone in his hands to slander China and the Chinese people (and) seriously violated professional ethics of journalism and human conscience," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said Tuesday at a news conference
I was not aware that China was recognizing a professional ethics of journalism code... You know, when you imprison journalist based on political beliefs, force state-run journalist to run stories favorable to the government, etc
I sincerely hope that the Foreign Ministry spokeswoman was joking about it!
So, you're a fan of the status quo.
So the BBC has something to do with this as well, eh?...
Here's the secret to immortality:
Every time someone stands up to the US (or CNN) and thoroughly pwns them, it makes me chuckle-especially when you can see that it was such a blatantly bad idea (even if it was free speech, they had to see this coming)
China and the US have both done some grievous things in our day, but there is a reason I would never blame China or expect it to act otherwise, while I will always be outraged when the US pulls off something similar.:
The US is a democracy..China is no such thing and never has beenChina has never, EVER been a soft, benevolent country. In Ancient times Emperor Xi Huangdi (the guy who built the great wall, was buried with the clay soldiers, and is seen in the movie Hero) used the exact same strong arm tactics to build and protect China. The Chinese have always played hardball and placed the value of human life as a *very* distant second to the sanctity and wellbeing of their nation and its people as a whole. Yes, sometimes this makes them do horrible, horrible things-especially by our western standards, but as a person I respect them for it. Its not like they try and make out their human rights violations as being in the name of 'Freedom and Justice.' Their reactions are also always quite predictable and they always live up to the letter of their word when dealing politically. In summary, their ways and values are radically different, but they are consistent and if I was charged with governing a quarter of the world's population, my policies would be very similar.
The US on the other hand is supposed to be a democracy and all about the individual and their rights. Anyone can see, however that in practice this is almost never the case. Capitalism and democracy didn't mix quite well and frankly its difficult to do anything unless corporations or the government deem it ok. How is this different from China? Actually its very similar. The thing is that the US government pulls the 1984 move of making all of their human rights violations in the name of Freedom, when clearly it is quite the opposite. When The US went into Iraq, we all know that Bush claimed it was to free the oppressed Iraqi people, find the weapons of mass destruction, and apparently save the world from evil terrorists. We all now know it was for oil and a vantage point in the Middle East. The reason for China being in Tibet is quite plainly because of an age old conflict and an assertion that is was at one point theirs and a valuable strategic position. (am i saying they are right?? NO! I'm just pointing out the lack of equivocation, although they are trying to avoid the subject with Olympic committees)Both countries also censor and coach their media to varying degrees. The difference here? China doesn't claim that they aren't censoring-they claim (validly in some cases)that the do it to prevent mass hysteria, political unrest often due to international criticism (which as you see they take very seriously). The US pulls the same shit, but they do it while touting freedom and democracy. Which in turn leaves me quite angry and bitter as i sit around wondering where in the world all the freedom and democracy is.
In short, at least the Chinese are honest!My gut also tells me all these Chinese hackers stories are bullshit, but we'll have to see about that.
It would really not be hard to just *say* Chinese hackers did whatever you want and have the general population believe you, there's no need to even have proof because proof would be over most people's heads anyway.
Several days ago, a CNN commentator publicly said, "They're basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they've been for the last 50 years,". I don't think this is very professional for a journalist. Worse, CNN does not apologize directly for this. I appreciate CNN to report on Tibet, but this is not acceptable!
n/a.
Can we all please just keep our heads for a few more months? If McCain can keep confusing his Shi'ites with his Sunis, then it might just be possible that any nonsense resulting from this kind of international friction will be less than globally lethal. I do not want to live in an Orwell novel because some jingoistic Chinese kid decides to take a pot shot at the wrong somebody. This could all get enormously dangerous far faster than anybody realizes.
Just take many deep breathes and count to ten as often as necessary. Yes, CNN is total bullshit. For a laugh, you should watch Fox! Many of us in the West have learned to recognize our own propaganda. If you, (the Chinese), can meet us half-way and reject the crap coming out of your own TV sets and classrooms, then we might all be able to survive the next few years without any nuclear exchanges.
-FL
After the shitty job the two morons did on the debate the other night, somebody needs to take ABC offline.
In fact, I wouldn't complain much if they took ALL the broadcast news operations - especially Fox - offline.
Bunch of fucking incompetent, biased, Establishment-protecting morons.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
The chinese gov is up to a number of things, but in general if it does not involve pushing their politics, helping their business, or their military, they stay out of it. The gov. is used to CNN being this way, and if they really wanted to do damage to CNN, they would either kick them out or block their server
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
At the time I first read this article I wasn't having any issues accessing CNN, and I didn't remember having any problems on Friday, although today (Sunday afternoon from my location), CNN is now unaccessible.
I think it's very possible that these DDOS attacks haven't stopped yet.
Oh, and I'm in Taiwan.
I have to quote this, "One has to wonder if this hacking attempt was government sponsored or not" You have to wonder if it's government sponsored or not? Last time I checked, the Chinese government only allows things to happen, that they want to happen. Your not going to be a wild rebel in China and live for it, unless it's something the communists want, that's for sure! And who cares about cnn?:)
Even the majority of the ethnic Chinese who've settled into foreign democratic countries somehow pledge their loyalty to the Han empire and its policies. The growing "greatness" and resurgence of the Han Chinese empire is an end that justifies all means, unquestionably. Those who even dare to suggest *debating* about nationalist causes like the status of Tibetan people under Chinese rule, are ruthlessly attacked. (a case study: Grace Wang, Duke Uni.) That will set the parameters for the "national debate" among the Chinese. Either one conforms or one becomes an "enemy of the people"!
Nature or Nurture?
The modern-day Han ethnicity is an amalgam of innumerous east-Asian tribes which were over the millenia taken over and converted into following the "superior" culture which was later named after the Han dynasty. There are some ongoing genetic studies of the current Chinese population which might give us better understanding of the ways the dynasties expanded, whether it was by peaceful assimilation or by more militant means. Obviously the ruling CCP will have a keen interest in interpreting the results of any such studies.
Regardless of the genetics, since "modern" nationalism spread into China the ideology has been used very successfully to help e.g. southern Chinese to identify themselves as Hans (which wasn't the case as recently as in the 18th or 19th century). Since the beginning of the 20th century pretty much all Chinese who didn't strongly identify with one of the 50-60 so called national minorities, including those of mixed parentage, were invariably raised to follow the "higher" Han culture. The so called minorities also get immersed into thinking that the 90%+ Han majority are the "paternal" race with "proper culture". Without the right to learn about the history and rights of those minorities, and with centrally encouraged Han migration into the minority areas to solidify Han control, the remaining minorities will inevitably vanish; just as the earlier neighbours of the early "Han" dynasties were assimilated until only Han culture remained.
Now with even "overseas Chinese" identifying so strongly with their "ethno-cultural family", it would be interesting to learn to what degree the Han Chinese language, its ideogram-based script and other social factors (such as the Chinatown effect of Chinese sticking together and discouraging cross-cultural exchange or marrying even after generations "overseas") are behind this phenomenom. Is there some kind of a "first imprint effect" that steers many or most Chinese to simply follow the mainstream Chinese "thinking" as it is presently promoted by that mainstream? Do the people identifying themselves as ethnic Chinese feel unusually insecure living abroad, and the imprint somehow gives them a sense of belonging and purpose? In the Chinese thinking one never questions "family", and the mainstream thinking (also engineered by the CCP desperately needing a raison d'etre!) has rather successfully soldered together the concepts of family and the (great) Han nation.
Like most of my Tibetan friends (some of whom have suffered greatly in the hands of the Chinese), I don't hate the Chinese for what they've done to Tibetans (I know the blame lies in the system and control of it). In fact I am quite lucky to have a large number of intelligent Chinese friends with whom I can civilly debate, agree and disagree on various issues. What does cause me some personal pain is seeing presumably well-informed Chinese choosing to ignore the clear injustices the Han empire has committed in Tibet since Mao's 1950 invasion
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
Based on the tense of your sentence, I can assume you're not American yourself. Therefore I'll engage in a little uninsightful, inaccurate stereotyping and trolling myself: Foreigners assume all Americans are idiots, sheep, and agree with all government actions.
In reality: George Bush has the lowest approval rating of any president in American history, ever. Historians are saying his presidency will be remembered as the worst presidency to date.
Very few Americans would agree that the war in Iraq was the right thing. Most of us agree though that it would be irresponsible to just yank our troops out at this point, we need to stay around at least long enough to mitigate the damage done at this point.
Most Americans are of the mindset that Bush and many in the current administration should be indicted for war crimes for the likes of Gitmo, water boarding, and numerous violations of constitutionally protected rights both against enemies of the state as well as US citizens.
"You voted him back in office," you may say. Well, this was four years ago, we don't know much of what we know today. This was also during a time of war - America has never changed presidents during a time of war. Bush wasn't voted back into office because people agreed with him, he was voted back in office because people were afraid. Many people state they wanted him out of office, but voted for him because they were afraid of what would happen if they didn't. Even still he barely won.
"You should rise up in rebellion against the government," you may say. This is not an impossible outcome, but people in America believe in the process we have set up. Overthrowing a long-stable government has many consequences which outlast the one or two years of governmental change it evokes. Assuming we started a full-scale rebellion four years ago, it's unlikely the rebellion would yet be successful, but even assuming really massive support throughout the country, best case scenario we could assume two years ago we'd have won, so we're looking at discarding two centuries worth of progress to save two years of tyranny. It wouldn't be that successful though, as too many people believe too strongly in what America stands for, even if right now it's managed to find its way into the crapper.
As to those other consequences: consider right now people in foreign countries are up in arms because America is converting some of its crop land into ethanol production, which has repercussions on world food supply. Do you think we're going to be exporting food during civil war? Consider that if America pulled all its troops out of Iraq tomorrow, the country would be in a worse state than it ever has. Do you think a government under attack would continue to maintain troops on foreign soil? No, they'd be pulled out and used on US soil.
So what are Americans dissatisfied with the current administration to do? Engage in the democratic process. Why do you think Barack Obama is so well regarded? He's got ideas for change, he proposes change, and people love it. The only reason Clinton - the hate mongering, mud slinging, lying, lobbyist-money-taking, wish-washy candidate that she is - does as well against him is simply because our news media does too poor of a job covering real political issues (see recent ABC debate) and instead focuses on unimportant things like, "Do you believe in the American flag," (do I believe it exists? Sure), "Do you think Jeremiah Wright is more or less patriotic than you," "Do you think your rival candidate has a chance to win." This leaves too many people without any real sense of what the issues are, or where the politicians stand on issues. They've learned to (apparently foolishly) depend on the media to expose relevant issues. So in the absence of any real issues to concern themselves with, they focus on things like, "Her husband was better than bush, so she's probably good too."
The current elections getting ready for this November are, I believe, the single most important electio
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
To clue you in, dufus... Although I am, indeed, foreign-born (gives me an insight, that you'll never get, especially on the subject of Russia), I've been an American for over a decade. I also voted for Bush — twice, although I would've preferred McCain in 2000...
Only in jest they are — and only the most partisan Lefties among them. The presidency of the Great Depression was surely far worse. That little incident, when the British/Canadians burned (what then became known as) White House, would ruin a presidency — in the eyes of an objective student of history — too... Vietnam War? Eeew... Enough, I suppose...
No, only you, dear. Only you and your band of fellow Illiberals...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
It's unfortunate, your comments reinforce your comment's grandparent's stereotype. You're the stereotype he carries, and it's that same stereotype which has gone so far to spend America's good will these last 8 years. Well, let me state, in case FatSean reads this, that's the minority in the US. Some of us believe in change.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
You support him and his illegal occupation of another country.
I see by your anti-arab link that you must be one of those people who had their country handed back to them after they failed to hold it. If only the Native Americans could have been so lucky...
Blar.