Slashdot Mirror
Earthquake In China
Several readers sent in links on the earthquake that hit 10 hours ago near the Sichuan city of Chengdu in China. The Telegraph focuses on the citizen journalism that got word on the quake out on the Net instantly (the first report was via Twitter). Science magazine speculates that deaths from this event could exceed the 240,000 killed in the Tangshan quake in 1976, though the estimated death toll is below 10,000 at this writing. Hundreds of videos are up on YouTube, including this footage from a security camera — keep your eye on the goldfish.
aren't there any seismographs connected to the internet in china?
that should have been faster than a human posting on twitter.
- Human knowledge belongs to the world
The instant an event happens anywhere in the world you have hundreds of cameras on it. This is a very, very good thing. Reporters and ground crews are no longer necessary to capture footage, you can get it de novo, unfiltered, unbiased. Of course, this only happens in a sufficiency advanced nation that has ubiquitous means of recording and means of transmission.
Which is interesting because I could swear China had a Youtube block to prevent such uncontrolled proliferation of footage.
Has /. just become a general news site? What's this got to do with flailing on Microsoft or promoting Linux?
I shudder to think how many lives could have been saved if only they had spent less time on chinese fire drills and more time on chinese earthquake drills.
I don't know if it's possible for the youtube link to get /.'ed but the shaking starts almost 5 minutes into the video and lasts for about 90 seconds. I have never been in an earthquake and certainly not sure how I'd feel about one that lasted so long.
In fact, nothing even fell over. This one at least has stuff falling about, and a clipped British voice giving hard facts.
is covering how technology and internet is changing the way we used to face those tragedies.
the faster the world knows about it, the faster help can be sent for the victims.
- Human knowledge belongs to the world
is that video. Here's a hint, it's called edit out the boring parts, or make note of where the action starts. Cliffs notes on the video are 4:40 or so of nothing happening, 40 seconds or so of people running out of a building, and the last minute and change of a goldfish bowl being sloshed. I can honestly say that if that video were the only exposure I had to a major event like that I'd have to wonder what all the fuss was about.
This is the Planet's way to relieve stress after a bad geological day.
"Mother Nature" has nothing to do with plate tectonics. She is involved in things like Ebola and homosexuality in Orca pods.
Some people think it is the second coming, and apparently Ron Paul is Jesus 2.0 ...
I always have a tough time getting my mind around the numbers bandied about in these human tragedies, but just imagine if 5,000 people died in the United States from something like this.
The 1989 quake that hit Northern California caused a lot of economic damage and freaked the hell out of people. It took years for the areas hit to fully recover from it. That incident killed 67 people.
I really do hope that the numbers turn out to be lower than expected. Major suckage.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
because it is a disaster that has been instantly covered visually by new generation gadgetry and posted up to net. behind a repressive regime that censors everything, to boot.
Read radical news here
This guy is all over this article. Check his posting history, he's one of those Chinese nationalist fanboys that like to deny the Tibet thing and so on. Very obvious.
The twitter monologues. Click on my homepage and be amazed.
Hey, guess what.
We just discovered that humans tend toward violence and oppression.
Wow.
Maybe someone should write about this.
Then we can study it.... maybe we could call it....
history.
And then we might learn from it.
But that would be too much work.
sigh.
and the point here is ?
Read radical news here
As an man interested in earthquakes, I have been watching the aftershock pattern over there and I think that there might be a small chance (or large, depending on things) of an aftershock that is Mw7.0 at least. But it also appears that the stress in the crust in this area has moved east and west of the current epicenter.
The reason for the current massive damage due to this earthquake is because it did happen at only 10 km depth. If it had happened at 40 or 80 km depth, there would have been less damage as less energy from the earthquake would have reached the surface.
There are going to be many, many aftershocks in this area for the next two months or more. Most of them from mb4.5 up to Mw6.5. Creating more damage to already badly damaged houses in the nearby area.
Good list of aftershocks can be seen here, along with information on the main quake.
http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=current&sub=list
An earthquake hits China, tens or hundreds of thousands of people may have been killed. Response: idiotic jokes, complaints about this not being 'tech', ignorant nonsense about politics.
Planes hit a couple of tall buildings in New York, a few thousand people are killed. Response: wild cries of pain and anger, unbridled hatred against anything from the Middle East, America starts two wars of revenge.
Is there something about the proportions here that isn't quite right? I mean, after the 9/11 attack sympathy poured from all over the world, even Yasser Arafat expressed his outrage against the attackers. But the response of the Americans to a major disaster in China is one ridicule and cold, heartless arrogance hiding behind and thin excuse of 'but they are evil communists'. Is that really the best you guys can manage? You know, sometimes you really make it an uphill battle to love and respect America.
Looks like *someone*'s been indoctrinated, and I'll give you a hint, he's a heartless loser...
"did chinese have a heart when beating down tibet protesters just 2-3 weeks ago, and locking them in to prisons for life ?"
Stop judging a nation's people by it's government's actions and the world will make a lot more sense.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Okay, I've been modded flamebait; fair enough, I can't argue that. Maybe I can make my point a little more moderately.
OP, it's like saying, oh, well, 1300 Americans died as a result of Hurricane Katrina. That's [n] less arrogant American pigs, who deserved it anyway.
Hey, I live in America, and I do not agree with - and completely resent - such a statement. I'm sure others would similarly be outraged if comments like that were made after Hurricane Katrina hit. But that that is what you are saying, with respect to China.
I was surprised that the US is willing to do more for the Burmese than they were their own citizens; although it came as no surprise that no one in the Bush administration seems to have realized the irony.
I think...that you are a little misinformed of what exactly went down in Tibet.
Let's take race and country out of the equation, and make no mistake, I'm not standing up for the Chinese government, and I have no special knowledge or comments to make about who really has the best claim to what land, etc. But anyways:
Mass organized rioters cause mayhem in the streets. Burning shops - mind you, not the special shops marked with white flags, those were 'saved' - killing people. A disgusting lack of respect for life.
Put that in America, and you (better) have martial law and a huge crackdown.
Put that in China, and you have an oppressive regime stamping out political freedoms.
It's almost comical...were it not so sad.
so what's the big deal about the goldfish? i was expecting it to fall out or somehow do something very exciting. all i can see is that it wobbled around a bit.
sink, swim, score and be happy
I'm going to have to agree that his methods aren't exactly going to win him popularity points, and it's overdone and unnecessary on what should be a more civil forum.
./er's, and it's something that (I hope) is insightful. A reminder that though we may personally be disconnected to these natural disasters (as would be the case for me for the tsunami of 2005 or the recent cyclone in Myanmar), not all of us are. And the comments that are made do come off as ignorant, insensitive, and hurtful.
But, as I've been 'all over' this article too, I feel like I should respond to your statement.
I've known people you can apply "Chinese nationalist fanboy" or "government apologist" label to. It's frightening. I don't think you quite realize the difference between a true "fanboy", as you say, and someone who just knows more (for instance, regarding Tibet). Our media here in the West is full of bias. But that's a discussion for another time.
But in my case, I feel that, knowing friends who have family in the region, I have a different perspective on this than would most
10 hours, later and only now /. is mentioning it.
Personally, I find the the Quake 3 symbol a nice touch. Nice to see another section is being misused beyond enlightenment.
The article says it's "Sichuan city of Chengdu". The fact is that "Sichuan" is the province and "Chengdu" is the provincal capital. Luckily, the centre of earthquake is just very close to ChengDu (a hundred something kilometres from it) but not right there. Otherwise the no. of death/hurt will definitely sky rocket.
Um, maybe they don't. But that doesn't mean you guys making smartass remarks about China's politics here have a heart either.
It's OK if you don't have a heart though, but just don't let me see you stand on that moral high ground anymore.
Don't quote me on this.
First, that was NOT the entire's US response to Katrina. It was the feds, not citizen's. Many of us sent in money and did help how we could. Home were opened, jobs created, etc. But your characterizations of the bush response is actually kind of wicked. I had not thought about it in that context, but you are right.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You'd be accurate if you said "30 years" instead of "10 years".
The public agrees with its government's actions because they generally do. Is it so hard to accept the fact that sometimes these governments actually work for the people? Is it so hard to accept the possibility that Chinese leaders actually have a sense of responsibility and morality, and actually care about the people, instead of the vote-buying enterprise that dominates "democratic" politics?
It's ironic that in "democratic" countries governments with less than like 40% approval rating can still rule the country... and then instead of electing a better government these people bitch about "brainwashing" of other countries when an "evil" authoritarian government does a better job.
I'm not saying democracy is worse than authoritarian government... but people like you are essentially saying "you're evil!!! you can't be better than us!! it must be a trick!!". Pathetic.
Don't quote me on this.
its not a smartass remark. the realities didnt go away either. what has happened in tibet, has happened, and majority of chinese people have agreed with their government, as they always do.
furthermore, if i didnt have a heart, there is absolutely nothing barring or deterring anyone from announcing it, so just dont let me see you making such dud remarks about hearts again.
Read radical news here
Way to go, justifying genocide!
Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
isnt that typical? chinese live on the other side of the world. the US (i take that most slashdotters are from the US) couldnt care less.
this is exactly why the burmese government is afraid to accept foreign help after their catastrophe. while humanitarian organizations just want to help, the governments behind those organizations want to judge. if you really want to help, brush aside political issues for a while.
and i really get the impression that slashdot mostly consists of attention whores who just want to top eachother with cruel jokes and sadistic comments.
The "whites" were Europeans that came to the Americas,
primarily Spanish, French, British, Dutch, etc etc.
They did things like hand out small pox blankets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_blanket#Biological_warfare
The Native Americans were many different tribes, and
they really did not have a large unification til around the
time of Custer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer#Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn
Some Native Americans tried to flee to canada after fighting
and were pursued all the way to Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nez_Perce#Chief_Joseph.27s_surrender
Some fought brutal guerilla style war for many years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo
The skull and bones society stole his bones back in the day
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geronimo#Theft_of_remains
So that is who the "whites" are.
The whites are the ppl who signed many treaties, and did not
honor most of them.
Their were some instances when Native Americans who had family
members killed went on rampages as well thou.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_treaties#U.S._Native_American_treaties
There are still many tribes, several names known by very few.
My tribe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Potawatomi_Nation
I credit my grandfather with my dim view of so called society.
He was one of the most brilliant men I ever personally knew.
My tour of duty in the US military working on RADAR showed
me that the killing of local indigenous ppl by profiteers
has been justified by said profiteers for a very long time.
It continues to this day...
google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
Come on.. do your blah blah blah free Tibet speech, you know you want to.. obviously these tourists are brainwashed and Chinese government approved.
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
I grew up in China and am insulted by how people have such simplistic concepts of China and of the Chinese people. There are ignorant people everywhere. The only difference is that in China there are more people who are willing to see their government as something distinct from themselves; as something that doesn't necessarily have legitimacy. The greatest trick ever played on the American people is convincing them that the U.S. government is the way it is because they want it to be that way. (Read Democracy in America -- it's been true for 200 years.)
Is America the country where I'd rather be a citizen? Yes. Does America have flaws galore? Absolutely. But understand that the Chinese people are smart. They understand the flaws of their government. But they also understand that they have had unbelievable growth over the past 30 years, and that this ascendancy is going to cause some problems.
The problems that China faces are the same as those in America: people care more about whether they can buy the next cool thing. So long as they can, and the government keeps the economy growing so they can, they don't care what the government does. The same way we don't care what abuses our government commits so long as we get our cheap oil, food, clothes, etc. The only difference is that we have a different government system, so the abuses are done with (slightly) more caution.
What comes first, finding a teacher or becoming a student?
If you are looking at images of a Chinese man trying to pull his wife out of the rubble, or a mother searching for her baby, and all you can think of is what political system they have, then you need to get a life.
You ought to be embarrassed to think that way.
I don't think Chinese rescuers are thinking about chairman mao any more than US rescuers think about George Washington. I think they are more likely concerned with digging out as many wives, husbands and children so that husbands, wives and parents can have their loved ones back.
I don't see these images of destruction and desperate hoping a story of politics. Instead, I see incredible suffering, and I feel for them. I imagine how I would feel if it were my wife, or my son, smashed up inside my crushed house, if that earthquake happened to me. Thank god it didn't.
This is my sig.
OK, so this is a flamefest and I'll pitch in
Chinese people - Han Chinese - get taught in their schools that Tibet has been part of China from way back. This may be true or it may not, I don't know. But during the late nineteenth century and up until 1958, it was not effectively true; Tibet was effectively autonomous. Furthermore, the fact that somewhere used to be 'part of' some state is no argument that it should continue to be. Half of France used to be part of England. What is now the Republic of Ireland used to be part of the United Kingdom. But the majority of the people of Ireland didn't want to be part of the United Kingdom, and so they're not now. That's how it goes.
Scotland is currently part of the United Kingdom, and nationalists - like me - want it to be independent. So we're campaigning for a referendum on independence, and sooner or later we'll get one. And if we're outvoted, we'll lose it; that's how it goes.
Nor does the Chinese argument that the theocratic government of pre-1958 Tibet was a 'bad' government wash. Yes, it wasn't democratic. Yes, it was essentially feudal. But the current Chinese administration isn't exactly in a place to throw stones.
However, where it gets tricky is this: there's a distinction between people who have been indigenous to a place for generations, and new immigrants. There are now a lot of people in Tibet who aren't indigenous to Tibet (same's true here in Scotland). It isn't their fault that they're there. And they have, it seems to me, as much right to have a say in the future administration of the place as everyone else there. So if Tibet could have a referendum on independence (which I believe they have a right to), the 'indigenous' people might not win because they might be outvoted by new immigrants.
I feel a lot of sympathy for the ethnic Tibetans, who are, I believe, having a raw deal. But I don't think that excuses the sort of race riots we saw earlier this year, where Han Chinese immigrants were attacked just because of their race.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
Imagine having your legs pinned under 18 tons of concrete. You are laying in the dark under the rubble of a multi-story apartment complex. Next to you is the body of one of your children, below you is your other child, who is suffering yet refuses to die. As the rest of the world is in a warm bed or on a comfortable couch or sitting here being crass, drinking coffee and taking this in as some sort of sick Romanesque spectator sport.
Yet here you are under the rubble watching your last child suffer away and you are wishing and hoping that if you die maybe a higher power will be placated and spare your child. The pain isn't so bad anymore, except for the cries coming from under you in the rubble. The cries of people who had dreams that will likely never be realized. The cries of pain and anguish. You hope for some relief before the dark comes, but only rain water dripping down on you. The darkness comes the cries continue. The pain continues. You watch your child draw his last breath.
Those of you without sympathy for the suffering are the ones that need to be lined up and shot on sight.
Just 2 cents from a red blooded American!
Remember that scenario is happening now....
Just an American expressing condolences to the Chinese people for their terrible tragedy. I have a wife and son myself and all I can think of is those family members under the rubble and those waiting to dig out.
China is a pretty powerful country, but if there's anything China needs, I hope they ask just ask. Americans would be honored to help.
This is my sig.
It gives you time to identify with the characters.
The Red Cross Society of China site seems being overwhelmed. But you can donate through Hong Kong Red Cross.
Did it occur to you that all your posts (not just this one) and arguments are based on pure speculation, in turn based on unfounded bias? Did it occur to you that such reasoning methods are flaky? And make yourself sound like an idiot?
Actually it somehow occurred to me that you MIGHT be raping young girls in your basement and killing their babies. (how do I know? you have no evidence to show otherwise...) Yes, so you're a sicko now.
Don't quote me on this.
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10875823
The Economist, I trust, is a reputable enough source?
and...
I'm a little surprised though, that the burden of proof should be on me here. It makes me wonder where you get your sources of information, that you would doubt it so heavily and then sternly warn me to not use Chinese press.
If you take BBC or CNN, it's going to be focused entirely on the Chinese response, and not the riots and destruction. If you take local Chinese news, it's going to be focused on the destruction caused to the Chinese people. Since we're not there, the best we can do is find the most firsthand sources we can, or read it all and acknowledge the balance necessary.
Ah, well, like I said, I'm not brushed up on the history of land claims. It's a common topic - around the world - and a very testy one, so I won't go there.
I mean, also, America kind of fucking invaded America and have been migrating Europeans there, totally diluting the American population, so I don't *quite* think that's a strong point you've made.
You're saying protest was merited. Granted. But burn shops and kill people and shit, and there'd better be some arrests.
Bread and circuses. The stuff works, and it has been refined over the course of many years. Maybe one day you tell people that they have to follow your rules so they can have life after death and the next day you dangle their credit score in front of them, but the process is the same.
Shut up, do your work, and you get to buy stuff.
"Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
Slashdot is too immature and uninformed to deal with China. I cringe every time China is mentioned here.
Thanks for your insight.
I've felt for a long time that it is the US government and controlled media who keep "China" as an enemy to US citizens (of which I am one).
It wasn't until I visited China a few years back and met many, many sincerely nice Chinese people on the street (weren't they supposed to hate me, I'm American?), that I could confirm that American citizens are prisoners of our government/media's agenda.
I know this is a simplistic experience, but it left a lasting impact.
Thanks,
SD
IIRC the Northridge quake in 1994 only lasted about 17 seconds at the epicenter. I was about 100 miles away when it hit and the shaking went on for a good 30-45 seconds. Based on the immediate reports I got from friends over email and their estimates of the duration of shaking, I was able to pinpoint the epicenter somewhere in western Los Angeles long before the news services.
At the epicenter itself, the duration of the shaking generally corresponds to the length of fault that gives way. If only a few km slips, it's a short quake. If several thousand km slips (like happened in Chile 1960 and Alaska 1964) the shaking can go on for several minutes. The Alaska quake was 4 minutes at the epicenter, with several distant but affected communities reporting shaking for almost 10 minutes.
Also note that earthquake magnitude is a measure of energy released, while certain types of damage correspond more to the power (energy over time) of the quake. The Northridge quake was moderate in terms of magnitude, but its direction and focus generated enormous power in certain areas. One seismograph recorded accelerations over 1g, whereas the previous largest recorded acceleration during an earthquake was less than 0.25g (typically you only see about 0.5 - 0.1g).
The only evidence of Pox blankets is from letters during the French and Indian war from a particular nasty guy who treated Indians like they were vermin. He certainly had the idea to do it, but there is no hard proof that he went through with it in any form.
It's certainly possible he did since smallpox ravaged colonial and native populations in the area, but he could have just been brainstorming.
I only mention it because you should base your arguments on the clearly proven offenses, and not the ones that may or may not have occurred. There was certainly no hard policy of this behavior set down.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
I am typically very critical of the CCP, but TacoCowboy speaks the truth. This isn't about the CCP. The quake is a human tragedy. Show some respect. Good people are dead.
Like you, I am particularly disturbed by Chinese nationalists. These rabid haters are ignorant, racist, and unthinking -- and their rants, most disturbingly, belie violent fantasies of Sino-"Western" war. I can think of particular Slashdot users who fit this description, who really do frighten me (though I won't name them here). But Taco Cowboy isn't one of them. if you look at some of his other posts (e.g., this one, or even the one you linked to), it's true that he does have a penchant for defending China, but not rabidly, and not without recognizing China's faults as well. He clearly has opinions, but they strike me as reasonable.
It's true; he's all over this thread. But he makes a point worth making. It's a little sad that he has to be making this point.
Besides, in fact I shouldn't have needed to write most of the above two paragraphs, because your post was really an ad-hominem argument. Does it really matter that it was Taco Cowboy in particular who wrote the sentences to which you were responding? They are either right or wrong on their own merits.
In this case, they were correct.
The quake was a tragedy. Sympathies to those affected.