Slashdot Mirror
Earthquake In China
Several readers sent in links on the earthquake that hit 10 hours ago near the Sichuan city of Chengdu in China. The Telegraph focuses on the citizen journalism that got word on the quake out on the Net instantly (the first report was via Twitter). Science magazine speculates that deaths from this event could exceed the 240,000 killed in the Tangshan quake in 1976, though the estimated death toll is below 10,000 at this writing. Hundreds of videos are up on YouTube, including this footage from a security camera — keep your eye on the goldfish.
and it looks like china is finally cracking from all that political angst!
'Number-memorizing Chinese people.'-Anon
aren't there any seismographs connected to the internet in china?
that should have been faster than a human posting on twitter.
- Human knowledge belongs to the world
The instant an event happens anywhere in the world you have hundreds of cameras on it. This is a very, very good thing. Reporters and ground crews are no longer necessary to capture footage, you can get it de novo, unfiltered, unbiased. Of course, this only happens in a sufficiency advanced nation that has ubiquitous means of recording and means of transmission.
Which is interesting because I could swear China had a Youtube block to prevent such uncontrolled proliferation of footage.
Ive been look on various sites, trying to see how many sources had it.
But apparently 'Brittany may visit mother' is bigger news.
Has /. just become a general news site? What's this got to do with flailing on Microsoft or promoting Linux?
I shudder to think how many lives could have been saved if only they had spent less time on chinese fire drills and more time on chinese earthquake drills.
I don't know if it's possible for the youtube link to get /.'ed but the shaking starts almost 5 minutes into the video and lasts for about 90 seconds. I have never been in an earthquake and certainly not sure how I'd feel about one that lasted so long.
In fact, nothing even fell over. This one at least has stuff falling about, and a clipped British voice giving hard facts.
is covering how technology and internet is changing the way we used to face those tragedies.
the faster the world knows about it, the faster help can be sent for the victims.
- Human knowledge belongs to the world
Seems rather tasteless.
is that video. Here's a hint, it's called edit out the boring parts, or make note of where the action starts. Cliffs notes on the video are 4:40 or so of nothing happening, 40 seconds or so of people running out of a building, and the last minute and change of a goldfish bowl being sloshed. I can honestly say that if that video were the only exposure I had to a major event like that I'd have to wonder what all the fuss was about.
stay classy, /.
skip to 4:30. Watching people work is so very very very boring.
If a quake gonna rocks, it gonna rocks.
It is unfortunate for those who perished in this quake, but on the other hand, it is also "lucky" that the quake rocks now.
Imagine what would happened if it rocks during the Olympics?
Imagine stadium collapsing, spectators and athletes buried under the rubbles, a global sport event turns into a global nightmare
Imagine that
My prayers for those who lost their lives and are injured, or have lost their properties in this quake.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
My god, watching that clip makes me feel like I'm waiting for the girls to show up in a gangbang video.
Isn't this Mother nature's way of Population Control?
Godzilla!
I have nothing to contribute. Just saying hi. Good night.
P.S. kdawson, people say you've been a bit of a troll lately, and from what I've seen, I agree. But I applaud your use of the "Quake" subject icon: probably the only thing in this thread that will be funny without also being cruel. Good on ya.
someone fix the world please, thx.
I always have a tough time getting my mind around the numbers bandied about in these human tragedies, but just imagine if 5,000 people died in the United States from something like this.
The 1989 quake that hit Northern California caused a lot of economic damage and freaked the hell out of people. It took years for the areas hit to fully recover from it. That incident killed 67 people.
I really do hope that the numbers turn out to be lower than expected. Major suckage.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
850, that's about as many that died in chinese prisons on the same day
Free TIBET !!
Free TIBET !!
Free BEER !!
Look, while I am happy to argue when a crappy story is posted here, but isn't a story about the earthquake in China, that's old news (sorta kinda internet time dilation sort of thing), this story is about the fact that the initial articles ABOUT this came via the likes of Twitter rather than Foxnews.
Geez guys, put an extra loop of tape around the glasses where they got broken, chill out a little, and enjoy Slashdot for what it is! (That includes the articles)
Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
did chinese have a heart when beating down tibet protesters just 2-3 weeks ago, and locking them in to prisons for life ?
Read radical news here
because it is a disaster that has been instantly covered visually by new generation gadgetry and posted up to net. behind a repressive regime that censors everything, to boot.
Read radical news here
"Science magazine speculates that deaths from this event could exceed the 240,000 killed in the Tangshan quake in 1976, though the estimated death toll is below 10,000 at this writing"
ACTUALLY... nowhere in the articles at Science Magazine does it say they think it could exceed 240,000 deaths.
It says 10,000 so far. Period.
Talk about FUD!
That's [n] less goldfarmers, [n] less people to take your job, and [n] less people who are indoctrinated.
Morbid, yes. In bad taste, perhaps. But that's how they are with their own people, and that is the respect they deserve. They've only revealed what they really are - a nation still in development wrt human rights and product quality.
Consider it a part of karmic justice on that nation, even if it did happen in Tibet.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Fortunately the Chinese government seems to be forthcoming as to what's happening over there, in contrast to past disasters. And I wonder what this will do to the olympics?
The twitter monologues. Click on my homepage and be amazed.
you were to play the 'motherfucking' game with me ? did the indian history example stupefied you on your tracks ?
Read radical news here
and the point here is ?
Read radical news here
As an man interested in earthquakes, I have been watching the aftershock pattern over there and I think that there might be a small chance (or large, depending on things) of an aftershock that is Mw7.0 at least. But it also appears that the stress in the crust in this area has moved east and west of the current epicenter.
The reason for the current massive damage due to this earthquake is because it did happen at only 10 km depth. If it had happened at 40 or 80 km depth, there would have been less damage as less energy from the earthquake would have reached the surface.
There are going to be many, many aftershocks in this area for the next two months or more. Most of them from mb4.5 up to Mw6.5. Creating more damage to already badly damaged houses in the nearby area.
Good list of aftershocks can be seen here, along with information on the main quake.
http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=current&sub=list
An earthquake hits China, tens or hundreds of thousands of people may have been killed. Response: idiotic jokes, complaints about this not being 'tech', ignorant nonsense about politics.
Planes hit a couple of tall buildings in New York, a few thousand people are killed. Response: wild cries of pain and anger, unbridled hatred against anything from the Middle East, America starts two wars of revenge.
Is there something about the proportions here that isn't quite right? I mean, after the 9/11 attack sympathy poured from all over the world, even Yasser Arafat expressed his outrage against the attackers. But the response of the Americans to a major disaster in China is one ridicule and cold, heartless arrogance hiding behind and thin excuse of 'but they are evil communists'. Is that really the best you guys can manage? You know, sometimes you really make it an uphill battle to love and respect America.
If the goldfish managed to survive how did that quake kill 10,000 people?
That whooshes don't extinguish flames.
China now has a reasonable excuse not to send any aid to Burma.
Summation 2
I _AM_ outraged by this terrorist attack from racist forces. Makes me feel good about the war on Mother Nature. Only a matter of time before we, with bulldozers, find the forest she's hide in.
It's incredible how much hatred there is here in Canada.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/05/12/quake-china.html#postc
I was surprised that the US is willing to do more for the Burmese than they were their own citizens; although it came as no surprise that no one in the Bush administration seems to have realized the irony.
Earthquake!
so what's the big deal about the goldfish? i was expecting it to fall out or somehow do something very exciting. all i can see is that it wobbled around a bit.
sink, swim, score and be happy
because believe it or not, this is quite the international crowd here, and it's equally possible that the insensitive comments that you are finding were posted by non-Americans like yourself. Or wait do "you guys" only get to post self-indulgent, self-important tripe like the above?
I'm not impressed by your silly self-righteousness or your pretentious angst, and I'm sure now that you've spit all that out you won't need to give this little quake in China another passing thought. How nice for you.
10 hours, later and only now /. is mentioning it.
Personally, I find the the Quake 3 symbol a nice touch. Nice to see another section is being misused beyond enlightenment.
The article says it's "Sichuan city of Chengdu". The fact is that "Sichuan" is the province and "Chengdu" is the provincal capital. Luckily, the centre of earthquake is just very close to ChengDu (a hundred something kilometres from it) but not right there. Otherwise the no. of death/hurt will definitely sky rocket.
For example, it may actually propel ppl to action in other areas to prepare for an earthquake. Another is that it may encourage sending of aid (most likely money for victim since this is one of the great nations). It may also spur others in China to come to the region and help out. Keep in mind that the gov is saying that it was not that bad, but pix and data show otherwise. Heck, somebody may even a friend (hopefully alive). It really is useful.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
maybe this was a karmic arsequake?? does you thinks???
First, that was NOT the entire's US response to Katrina. It was the feds, not citizen's. Many of us sent in money and did help how we could. Home were opened, jobs created, etc. But your characterizations of the bush response is actually kind of wicked. I had not thought about it in that context, but you are right.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Yeah, I've been observing those numbers from the USGS. Agreed that
these are insane.
A couple of observations: The USGS page only lists M4.0+ quakes.
Late last year, we had a M5.6 quake in the Alum Rock area.
In California, this is just enough to get your attention.
One of the Sichuan aftershocks in the last hour just beat this quake.
There's a picture where the rescue workers are digging out a kid.
They gave him a helment while they're working on freeing his legs.
This news does cover a country, which is quite controversial for some points of views⦠I am sure; this topic can stimulate a lot of âoecreativeâ minds, with a lot of âoeuniqueâ ideas and jokes⦠However, I beg you, use your wisdom, and not the sharpness of your sense of humor. Which I am sure, is very strongly present here in this community⦠This news is about a great tragedy⦠A lot of people are DEAD. And let me point out the cause: it is our Mother Nature! Not a political situation⦠Not an economical point of view⦠And terrorists have nothing to do with it⦠It is our Mother Nature! Think about it before posting your opinions! BTW, I will owe one night of drinks, to anyone who can convince our Mother Nature to keep European continent little quite for a coming summer⦠You know⦠keep it normal⦠Not too rainy, not too dry⦠Is this too much to ask??? Thing is, there is a girl coming over to my house and I do not want any unforeseen complications⦠Since I am the oldest in the family⦠I left Mother Nature quite early⦠You know⦠All those opinions and views⦠I wanted to be independent⦠having my owned place⦠A basement with a fastest Internet connection and a universal tin-foil roof in case of unforeseen attack coming from my evil neighbors working for $$$⦠Or from aliens⦠Who knows? Anyway, I have lost contact with my Mother Nature⦠Didnâ(TM)t talk to her in a quite a while⦠Nevertheless, I hope she remembers me!!!! Please mention the girl and me⦠I think she will be happy to hear that⦠And hopefully, there will be no surprises and Iâ(TM)ll finally score!!!! Cheers in advance!!
If you're not confused, you're not paying attention
First, you assume that all these AC's are Americans, even though this is being posted in the middle of the night here? ( I am up because I have code to finish and test before the AM and am taking a break). Far more likely that a fair number of these ppl are coming from east of America, though no doubt some of them are Americans.
Second, America started 1 war to stop it from happening again (they were harboring and helping AQ). It was not revenge. The other was an invasion/occupation for many other reason (and sadly, most of us doubt it had anything to do with 911).
Third, comparing an act of war to a disaster has to be the ultimate red herrings. Ppl died, but these are totally different items.
My suggestion is that you get off your soapbox and quite pointing the finger when you are not so certain that is American doing the knocking. As it is, the Americans that I can spot, are like myself, expressing feelings of sympathies for the families and friends while doing low key discussions.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I was at ground zero for HIV (worked at CDC in 1981) and have lost a cousin to it. And I watch with remote curiosity WRT avian flu (far more damaging if it ever comes to be). These items DO have an impact on the birth rate. The simple fact is that man is resilient, but what would happen if these did not happen?
In fact, we may find out shortly exactly how much impact nature/disasters have on man. A part of the Avian flu is that a new vaccine attempt is being done at CDC. It will look at different coats. Most importantly, it is considered a vaccine for ALL flu's. If it works, then flu (number 1 or 2 killer of man) will be stopped. So, the question is, what will happen to the earth population? China has theirs roughly under control. EU is pretty much zero, but immigration moves them up to positive. The same is true of America (we are zero on birth growth, but immigration esp. illegal is keeping us in positive growth).
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Why is this posted in games? And have the Quake game icon? Pretty sick sense of humor, /.
Adam Smith, The Theory of Moral Sentiments
isnt that typical? chinese live on the other side of the world. the US (i take that most slashdotters are from the US) couldnt care less.
this is exactly why the burmese government is afraid to accept foreign help after their catastrophe. while humanitarian organizations just want to help, the governments behind those organizations want to judge. if you really want to help, brush aside political issues for a while.
and i really get the impression that slashdot mostly consists of attention whores who just want to top eachother with cruel jokes and sadistic comments.
Hypnotoad takes care of his own ...*
* clap clap clap clap
Defining Statistics and Social Research
re-read the item and then google for it. Flu has a number of proteins. Normally, the vaccines target the unstable proteins. Now, CDC is trying to target one or two of the stable proteins. If they are successful, it will mean that ALL flu's are blocked (of course, that does not address the issues of an immune storm). And yes, the avian flu has the same protein because they are STABLE.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
If you are looking at images of a Chinese man trying to pull his wife out of the rubble, or a mother searching for her baby, and all you can think of is what political system they have, then you need to get a life.
You ought to be embarrassed to think that way.
I don't think Chinese rescuers are thinking about chairman mao any more than US rescuers think about George Washington. I think they are more likely concerned with digging out as many wives, husbands and children so that husbands, wives and parents can have their loved ones back.
I don't see these images of destruction and desperate hoping a story of politics. Instead, I see incredible suffering, and I feel for them. I imagine how I would feel if it were my wife, or my son, smashed up inside my crushed house, if that earthquake happened to me. Thank god it didn't.
This is my sig.
Imagine having your legs pinned under 18 tons of concrete. You are laying in the dark under the rubble of a multi-story apartment complex. Next to you is the body of one of your children, below you is your other child, who is suffering yet refuses to die. As the rest of the world is in a warm bed or on a comfortable couch or sitting here being crass, drinking coffee and taking this in as some sort of sick Romanesque spectator sport.
Yet here you are under the rubble watching your last child suffer away and you are wishing and hoping that if you die maybe a higher power will be placated and spare your child. The pain isn't so bad anymore, except for the cries coming from under you in the rubble. The cries of people who had dreams that will likely never be realized. The cries of pain and anguish. You hope for some relief before the dark comes, but only rain water dripping down on you. The darkness comes the cries continue. The pain continues. You watch your child draw his last breath.
Those of you without sympathy for the suffering are the ones that need to be lined up and shot on sight.
Just 2 cents from a red blooded American!
Remember that scenario is happening now....
Skip to about 4:54... unless you like to watch paint dry, grass grow, or NASCAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__hYw9p8Ouk
even Yasser Arafat expressed his outrage against the attackers.
Arafat's outrage come after CNN ran footage of Palestinians spontaneously demonstrating in the streets with cheers for the attackers. There was a massive and popular celebration in the middle east for 9/11. Regardless of what their leaders said, or even Arafat giving blood to help, all I could think was, wow, after all the USA did, particularly under Clinton, to help Muslims. The USA saved the Muslims in the Balkans, twice, from certain genocide. The USA worked tirelessly to create an independent palestinian state. Clinton did more than any world leader ever did to help Muslims and all we got, at the end, was 9/11 and massive street celebrations across the middle east, repleat with burning American flags.
Yeah, I hate them for that.
This is my sig.
Just an American expressing condolences to the Chinese people for their terrible tragedy. I have a wife and son myself and all I can think of is those family members under the rubble and those waiting to dig out.
China is a pretty powerful country, but if there's anything China needs, I hope they ask just ask. Americans would be honored to help.
This is my sig.
This is a terrible incident and it's hard to imagine that up to a quarter of a million can be dead in an incident that had no real target. It gives real scope to the size of the tragedy. Much like the tsunami a couple of years ago, it shows how little we have mastered.
But hopefully these people will work it out. They don't have much choice but to put their best foot forward. It's something that most of us will probably never be able to truely get our heads around in terms of the number dead and the devastation that it carries with it.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
China will ``welcome help and assistance from the international community,'' Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang told a regular news briefing in Beijing today.
As a born and bred Brit, I was in the States (on holiday in Florida) when 9/11 happened. I was appalled by the events, I comforted American people who were overwhelmed with grief at what happened and will never forget where I was that day.
Likewise, I was appalled when my own countrymen died in terrorist bombings in London and when hundreds of thousands died during the "Boxing Day" tsunami of 2004. And now the Tibet cyclone & Chinese earthquake.
Call me old fashioned but when people die unexpectedly, it's a tragedy - whether they are white, black, whatever skin colour.
So GROW UP everyone! Show a little respect and if Slashdot considers it right to cover stories of human tragedy, then it should do so with dignity and WITHOUT the stupid "Quake" logo on the title! I'm sure the likes of John Carmack and John Romero won't be too impressed at such a cruel usage of that logo...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
China has an earthquake. Australia spends millions of tax payers dollars in aid. When was the last time China offered Australia aid? And fuck america.
They said that new dam in China will make quakes more likely will we more any time soon?
This should make the Chinese government rethink building safety regulations and add tougher inspection rules before approving any high rises.
I used to live in India where quakes are very commonplace in the northern part of the country. Rampant corruption in the decades past allowed builders to get away with cheap materials and building more floors than their alloted quota. After a lot of collapsed buildings in quakes, the government had to throw in stricter regulations and even knocked down a few illegal high-rises.
It's very sad that China had to go through the same to learn their lesson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallows_humour
It's called "Gallows humor", it's a very appropriate, very common coping mechanism, and you'll notice no one is calling you names for dealing with this tragedy in your own way. Yet you seem to think you have a monopoly on the correct way to deal with tragedy.
It's normal. You being a douchebag about it is not.
Maybe there'll be a little less gold spam in World of Warcraft now...
Okay, How about we judge them by the posts they made on their bulletin boards back in the '90s when Taiwan elected its first democratically elected president? (Lee Tung Hui)
Chinese university BBS's at the time were filled with plans on how to invade Taiwan with fishing boats as transports/landing craft so they could kill all the men and rape the women in Taiwan so that way there would only be Chinese in Taiwan in the future.
The Chinese gov't has fostered 1914 style nationalism/patriotism to the point of lost control.
You can argue this is the gov'ts fault for censoring and controlling the media, but the mainland Chinese I talk with, even in the 'States, have gone past knowing they are being manipulated to being willing partners in that manipulation. Watch some of the videos on Youtube about how Tibet "is, always has been and always will be" a part of China and the comments that follow. Talk to them about what they think of some of the things their Gov't has done and is doing. They will defend it in the strongest ways they can. They will repeat Gov't propaganda verbatim.
The Chinese I talk to do this because they want to see China regain its past glory and live up to the countryâ(TM)s name âoeCENTER COUNTRYâ (Jung Guo). Thatâ(TM)s the name of China in Chinese, the Center of the World. Itâ(TM)s indoctrinated in them since elementary school.
Additionally, most Chinese equate economic growth with legitimacy of the govâ(TM)t. China has been growing so fast for so long (30ish years). Most people are benefiting and so they say to the ones left out to just shut up and go away/get out of the way.
While I know some mainland Chinese who do not fit this description Iâ(TM)ve given, most that Iâ(TM)ve met do. Iâ(TM)ve lived in Taiwan for several years, speak Chinese and interact with a lot of Mainland Chinese on a regular basis. They are extremely proud of their country, and are more irrationally defensive than anyone in the west would be if you were to criticize their country. Even people from Taiwan want China to succeed in some ways (but not a one of them want anything to do with the âoecommunistâ govâ(TM)t)
I apologize for posting anonymously, but I do have to go to company picnics, parties and other events where being too direct about these topics would cause "political" problems.
The Red Cross Society of China site seems being overwhelmed. But you can donate through Hong Kong Red Cross.
They dont give a shit about anyone else (Tibet, Darfur, Muslims, Koreans, any other minority that live there). They killed millions of each other during "Great Leap Forward" under Mao ..MILLIONS killed by their own government. They oppress human rights, free speech, woman rights with mandatory abortions Indirectly support infanticides. Why now, I should feel sorry or care about their problems now? Why? How much they cared about other people suffering? Now they want our money, support, and help? Why should I care!?
I'd rather keep my eye on the cute girl behind the counter.
I was a bit concerned when she ran back to lock the drawer. Lesson for the day: If you suddenly find yourself bouncing around like a bobblehead the cash drawer isn't important.
Fortunately this vid seems to have been captured far from the epicenter.
You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
What I see is a disaster, made worse by conditions that said government was directly responsible for.
Who the fuck are you, Orwell? What makes you think you have the right to anyone what to think about anything, especially given your obliviousness to the conditions that were a direct contributor to the death toll?
No, I'm not embarrassed that I'm not wallowing in needless sentimentality. People die, it's tragic. That it's made worse by a government whose job it is to prevent such tragedies deserves discussion.
People will continue to die in natural disasters. That is unavoidable. People will continue to die under the Chinese regime. That is TOTALLY avoidable.
I'm not embarrassed about focusing on things that can actually be influenced by my actions. I;m not the least bit embarrassed about putting my emotion into action that is useful.
Nicely deflected. Sarcasm aside, who the fuck are you to
a) tell people how to react to a tragedy? What makes you the arbiter of appropriate reaction?
b) make assumptions about the motivations of the people you're judging?
Your reaction isn't appropriate for everyone, yet you seem to think it is. Assuming that you know the motivation of the people you're judging is just outright arrogance.
You deal with this how you like. Meanwhile, others get to do the same. At least they should, but you don't seem to want to let them.
There are preparations that could be made. Could end the pay farmers not to grow food program and use savings to buy excess, stockpiling food. Filter masks could be stockpiled. Filters for IC engines could be stockpiled. Power companies could be encouraged to find rapid ways to clear dust from power lines.
None of these things are being done. Without them we and/or children grandchildren are all dead.
Republicans should be told that dead people do not have to worry about Iraq.
Democrats should be told that dead people do not have to worry about the Global Warming nonsense.
they should all die. make a glass nuclear desert out'v the whole country
"I apologize for posting anonymously, but I do have to go to company picnics, parties and other events where being too direct about these topics would cause "political" problems."
The quote above really doesn't put you in a position to pass judgement, if your so quick to hide your thoughts without any coercion then how do you know what your Chinese collegues "really" think?
The rest of your post is a stereotype at best and like a newspaper horoscope it can be applied to just about any powerfull nation.
BTW: The "Center of the world" thing refers to the ancient seat of the Emporer, it has as much meaning as "God's own country", "Viva la France" or "Rule Brittania".
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Seeing as everyone dies, yes, it is.
So, would you care to actually respond to my point, or should I take your second nonsensical response as an admission that you know you were being an arrogant asshole?
I have a little experience with earthquakes, and I know one person very well who lived through the 1995 Kobe-Hanshin earthquake. There is no way that the video was anywhere close to the center of the earthquake.
Close to the center of an earthquake that powerful, you wouldn't be able to walk or even stand up, much less file out of the building like you see in the video.
So if you're taking notes for how to deal with a bad earthquake, don't use that video as a measuring stick. One way or another that goldfish would have flown across the room and smashed into the wall (or perhaps even the ceiling in a vertically moving quake).
Really? That's the ONLY difference?
Why did you people mod this incoherent tripe insightful?
TL;DR version
/. love to criticize the Chinese and blame the Chinese government for all the cases of espionage that we hear about in the news. Well, the culture over there is different than it is here. If they can get away with it, then they don't care. I'd say it's less a matter of direct government intervention than a case of either cultural attitudes and/or indirect (but possibly intentional) government encouragement. There might be a little government indifference thrown in there too (especially since it hurts 'enemies'), but it's not like such things aren't foreign to human history (even Western history). Just look at the whole history of the pirates that raided Spanish ships from the New World being supported 'under the table' by England. It's not to say that it's right, but it's hardly the organized, systematic frontal assault on 'the West' that some commenters on slashdot would have you believe.
=============
China is a big place, don't generalize about the people. The Chinese government isn't as evil as people would have you believe just because they are communist, but it's not like they are paragons of moral fortitude either. If you want to see a really good documentary on China, checkout "China from the Inside" (it was done by PBS). I've heard from people that have lived in China that it does a pretty good job of being accurate.
The Rest
========
While I am appalled at some of the responses to this tragedy with "those damn commies deserve it," the people responding with "don't condemn the people for the government" also aren't exactly on the mark either. I've found that almost no one has a good opinion on China -- on either side of the issue.
China is a place that is mired in the veil of communism by the West. But you can't exactly treat China as you would the old USSR. Russian culture is more similar to a lot of Western cultures than Chinese culture is. So in some ways it was easier to understand when the 'red threat' had more cultural similarities to our culture. But China has a different people and a different culture. And China is a *large* place. You have everything from Tibet with its Buddhism to the areas bordering places like Pakistan and Afghanistan where the people want to be Muslims (which the government also doesn't like because they want to impose the culture of East -- the Beijing-Shanghai culture -- as the 'one true culture' of China).
With 1.3 billion people, and such a large geographical area you can't just lump 'the Chinese' into one large group of people and stereotype them.
People here on
Then we have the whole Tibet issue. Both sides of this issue have their faults. There is the 'free Tibet' side that views Chinese occupation/annexation of Tibet as some sort of group decision by all of the Chinese. Then there is the side of the nationalistic Chinese that try to defend their government's decisions.
I've heard pro-Chinese arguments for the occupation of Tibet that range from "well, the Tibetans are getting all these benefits from being part of China, like food and education" to "well, Tibet used to be part of China in the past." Personally I think that the Chinese government has a multi-reasoned justification for this:
1. They need it for more land. They pump a *lot* of Chinese settlers into this area. I'm not sure whether this is just in an attempt to overwhelm the current population/culture with what they deem to be 'true Chinese' or if this is just people filling in the population vacuum on their own.
2. They see part of their goal as rebuilding China to an empire like in ancient times. This would include retaking territories that historically had belonged to them. It also is part of a 'morale booster' effect to promote nationalism.
Keep in mind though that this happened years ago. The Dhali Lama was a child when it happened. I seriously doubt that the Chinese would right now attempt such a thing as taking over another country. And even if the government believed the Tib
No, you're saying that the comments are "ignorant, insensitive, and hurtful" among other things, which is no better, and possibly worse. You're also advocating that said people stop sharing such sentiments, so you're advocating censorship as well.
I was just thinking... The 1989 Loma Prieta quake "only" killed 67 people, even though it happened during a World Series game with tens of thousands of people in one stadium. How do you think the facilities for the Beijing Olympics are spec'd with regards to earthquake environments? Is this even an earthquake zone? What would happen if this happened during an Olympic event? Not trying to be doom/gloomy -- just wondered...
Kurt Vonnegut: "If you can do a half-assed job of anything, you're a one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind."
I have travelled to that area three years ago. There used to be a fairly good road into the mountains, but in summer it is constantly threated by pouring rains and collapsing rocks from the mountain on both sides. The road passes a place named Diexi, which used to be a town but sank into the bottom of the river Min-Jiang after an earthquake during the reign of Republic of China. Up the river is Wenchuan, one of the most heavily inflicted area.
I read some reports based on the info obtained 3 hours ago. The quake came with heavy rain. Almost all communications and power supply are down and the road (which I once travelled on) was completely destroyed. Now the only way to get in there is walking on foot (not even by airplane or helicopters, since there're no guiding signal up, and visibility is next to nothing, and there are thunder clouds). There was attemps with paratroopers but turned out not effective (4 soldiers died in the operation among the 100 total).
There are several resevoir/power plants along the river there. Some of them are being damaged, and it's possible that the reserverd water could got flowing out uncontrolled...
And everything that can go wrong is going wrong there.
Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
Nationalism is bad, especially if you (generic) are American, and that goes doppel fur Germans.
But nationalism is good if you are:
1. French
2. Mexican, or American who thinks and wishes he was Mexican
3. Scots
Who else?
Just want to make sure who has the correct permissions to be proud of their country!
What I see is needless suffering that is the direct result of a government that deliberately hamstrung development, relegating many parts of the country to little better than third world level conditions. What I see is a disaster, made worse by conditions that said government was directly responsible for.
I wouldn't be so smug. I would not be so sure that the USA itself would be immune to a 7.9 earthquake even in areas that are purportedly prepared for them. A 7.9 quake is a damned big quake, and I would not be so sure even LA or SF would walk away from one of those without some loss of life. God help us if the USA had a New Madrid quake. A New Madrid quake usually is an 8-9 Richter job that would pretty level the entire mid western USA, and would kill hundreds of thousands of people.
Nature and justice are not the same thing. When a man falls through the ice on a lake and drowns, you just have to feel bad for the wife and children he or she left behind. Yeah, he made a mistake, but the tragedy is so terrible, that the punishment for that mistake is notably unjust.
Mother Nature is some bitch, and all of us, as humans, regardless of political system or religious beliefs, share a common ground in that.
This is my sig.
My wife takes regular business trips to China, and has learned something interesting about the "one child" policy: apparently, the way it works now is that you can keep having daughters as long as you want, but once you have a male child, you aren't allowed to have any more children (at least, not without paying some kind of penalty that even someone well-to-do in a 1st world country would find prohibitive...)
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
much?
You've learned nothing from history.
3 gorges dam is designed for 7 on the Richter scale. i can't imagine what would happen if something greater hit the dam. here is the gov official announcement on 3 gorges dam. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-05/13/content_8160453.htm
14.270 MHz
7.050 MHz
7.060 MHz
IIRC the Northridge quake in 1994 only lasted about 17 seconds at the epicenter. I was about 100 miles away when it hit and the shaking went on for a good 30-45 seconds. Based on the immediate reports I got from friends over email and their estimates of the duration of shaking, I was able to pinpoint the epicenter somewhere in western Los Angeles long before the news services.
At the epicenter itself, the duration of the shaking generally corresponds to the length of fault that gives way. If only a few km slips, it's a short quake. If several thousand km slips (like happened in Chile 1960 and Alaska 1964) the shaking can go on for several minutes. The Alaska quake was 4 minutes at the epicenter, with several distant but affected communities reporting shaking for almost 10 minutes.
Also note that earthquake magnitude is a measure of energy released, while certain types of damage correspond more to the power (energy over time) of the quake. The Northridge quake was moderate in terms of magnitude, but its direction and focus generated enormous power in certain areas. One seismograph recorded accelerations over 1g, whereas the previous largest recorded acceleration during an earthquake was less than 0.25g (typically you only see about 0.5 - 0.1g).
Or that flatsceen TV you have. Or your DVD player? Nice cannot describe what they make. As much jobs and oil that they've taken, it's hard to see sympathy. Especially so when that has created disasters of economic types.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I thought that the main trouble of flus like Avian flu was the immune system response killing the host (which is why more healthy, younger people die with these varieties - their healthier immune systems mount a much stronger response, which kills them).
:) Thanks!
Will such vaccines moderate the immune response or kill the flu so fast that a massive immune response is averted? Or am i completely wrong?
Thanks For The Link.
towards me ? truth and justice are more important than what people think about me, or someone else.
Read radical news here
is like a beacon of truth amidst a murky sea.
Read radical news here
Congratulations.
Insightful and funny are really the same thing, except one has a punch line.
I was born in China in 70's,and living in Beijing now. What you said :"reading to mao's cookbook that everyone had to memorize at some point in the past, ".
It's really happened for people who was born in 50's or 60's , but it's never happened on people just like me and young generations.
Don't demonize China and its people, all these things only make you ridiculous, nothing else.
allright. so china is very much changed now. is this why they are employing 30.000 people just to monitor and censor chat rooms ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3034023.stm what happens to people who are sent to jail on grounds of dissidence ? what happened to tienanmen people ?
Read radical news here
Wow.
you guys are simply bitches! While thousands of citizens in China are suffering from the disaster, you guys are discussing stupid topics... Don't you have any sense of sympathy?
Now we're talking.
If you want to make accusations about the Chinese government at least be accurate and not make up ridiculous things. If you ever wondered why people are so hostile when you're bashing China, this is probably why.
If you committed manslaughter and I charge you for rape, you plea not guilty. Don't act outraged when people deny the exaggerated things and untrue you accuse them of.
Don't quote me on this.
I don't care.
That has fuck all to do with my point. Large parts of China are reminiscent of third world countries not because of neglect or failure of policy, but because of SPECIFIC ACTIONS DESIGNED TO MAKE THEM THAT WAY.
Your point is completely irrelevant.
Not to be a dick, but no I don't, and I'm not going to pretend I do like you and others have been doing. YOU might, but we've already established I'm not you.
Which, again HAS FUCK ALL TO DO WITH MY POINT. Chinese government policy MADE THIS TRAGEDY WORSE. That nature is unpredictable has nothing to do with this.
Could you at least TRY to read what you're responding to this time, since you seem to have completely avoided doing so last time.
No, because that has NOTHING to do with my point, which you clearly didn't bother trying to understand. Your entire post is proof you don't know hat you're replying to, and illustrates your ignorance and stupidity.
Lol, clearly you prove you're a dumbass here, and that you've never been to "Washington".
It's a good thing no one gives a fuck what you think then.
Why because I typed out a moronic rant regarding a post I am too much of an idiot to comprehend?
Oh no, wait, that was you.
Still not embarrassed either.
This should also be part of the future:
If you've carefully read the problems Chinese soldiers / rescue workers are facing - the rain, landslides covering roads, bad weather preventing transport vehicles etc, we need a slightly odd solution - maybe one from IronMan-like electromechanical armor.
If you've seen Starship Troopers, you'll realize that we could use "insects" like those shown there. They're about 3-4 times taller than humans. They could be *light*. And they can stand on a surface area of 4 (or 6 ) x 100 sq.cm. (100 for each "foot") Sitting atop those insects could be skilled ironman-like trained drivers who have simply one job - walking around over debris, creating least possible damage by stepping correctly and stepping on safe spots - I know it is not as easy as it sounds, but we have accomplished such feats as sending men to the Moon and probes to Mars. The second is definitely very much related to this insect-vehicle.
With six legs or eight, and no "body" except a control system box and the bare minimum electric or petroleum engine, this thing could probably help the soldiers walk over unhelpful terrain much faster - and a chain of these could deliver a lot of material over 100m to 200m distances with lesser people - every nation facing an earthquake does not have soldiers in the abundance that the Chinese have. Coming back, just imagine if some humans were thrice the normal size. We call lions and tigers "great cats". We know giant squids exist. We know giant insects and plants exist. We know giant reptiles and birds exist (or did in the past). We have cranes for heavy lifting, helicopters, all sorts of heavy machinery and movers. But we have no light, giant humans or hands, fingers or limbs in general. Moving heavy machinery into such places needs good roads.
That is precisely the problem here. Then we need to get in aircraft. They face bad weather.
Time and again, earthquake after earthquake. it's the same story - no transport, rain, storms.
So, what do we do? We need an insect that can do all this walking and send people across hilly terrain, but which can be carried around easily and can be assembled and disassembled at will.
And we need many of these to be standardized as earthquake handling tools just like we have standard fire-extinguisher training at fire drills. The Japanese are well known for this - buildings with steel beams in pillars and springs between floors, making every joint a shock absorber - not collapsible - entire buildings built like lightweight trusses.
This is not a "fresh" story but poses a series of questions before any self-respecting engineer (or, i dare say, nerd?)
Hackers have long memories. It works both ways.
Funny, I would think that a post that says "the only difference is" about TWO DIFFERENT THINGS would at least be somewhat incoherent.
And I'd be right, while you are not.
In the future, don't confuse "I agree" with "coherent". You won't look so stupid next time.
This is exactly what I mean, perhaps you could try that again in something resembling coherent English.
Could you at least TRY to read what you're responding to this time, since you seem to have completely avoided doing so last time.
Uh, what, you don't care, you don't care... blah blah blah, its all their fault because of the evil chinese government. Somehow communism causes earthquakes. I followed you. So, does that mean, that, if there is a federal disaster in your area, we don't have to send in the rescuers because it was your own dumb fault for being there. Why do you deserve to ever have your life saved?
This is my sig.
I never said that, nor anything like that jackass. I said their policies MADE IT WORSE. I specifically avoided using the word "caused" just so I could lord it over people like you who read one thing and percieve it as something else entirely.
Go reread it, and come back when you realize I'm right and you're incapable of reading what is on your screen.
No, you substituted your flawed perception for my clearly made point. CHINESE POLICY DID NOT CAUSE THE DISASTER, BUT IT DID MAKE THE OUTCOME SUBSTANTIALLY WORSE THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE. I've said that, with no equivocation, several times.
Why are you not able to grasp it? Are you suffering from a genuine medical condition that makes what you read turn into something entirely different in your brain? This isn't hard (well for people other than you I mean) so why are you totally failing to grasp it?
Apparently you can't read a post and reply to the point within, or choose to pretend you can't when you have no refutation.
Nope, what does that stupidity have to do with MY point that Chinese policy made this disaster worse? Right, NOTHING.
I can't say this any other way, so I guess I have to be direct.
YOU HAVE COMPLETELY FAILED TO UNDERSTAND A VERY SIMPLE POINT. THIS IS NOT A FAULT OF THE LANGUAGE USED, NOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE SENTENCES, BUT OF YOUR INTELLECT. YOU HAVE SUBSTITUTED POINTS THAT WERE NEVER MADE FOR THE VERY CLEAR, CONCISE POINTS THAT WERE MADE. YOU HAVE NOT IN ANY WAY REFUTED OR EVEN ADDRESSED MY POINTS, AND WHILE INITIALLY I THOUGHT THAT WAS BECAUSE YOU WERE CONTENTIOUS, IT NOW APPEARS YOU ARE NOT INTELLECTUALLY CAPABLE OF DOING SO.
If you ARE capable of addressing my point, please do so. If what you plan to do is more of what comprised your last two responses stupidity, save it.
If you ARE capable of addressing my point, please do so.
I can't take you seriously. You think communism causes earthquakes!
CHINESE POLICY DID NOT CAUSE THE DISASTER, BUT IT DID MAKE THE OUTCOME SUBSTANTIALLY WORSE THAN IT WOULD HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE. I've said that, with no equivocation, several times.
Oh, this is what you are rambling about. The thing is, you made this statement without making a single supporting piece of evidence for it. Not one. All you have is an opinion that you keep shouting and you've offered nothing to back it up. In fact, when I pointed out that there are places in the USA where a nearly 8.0 richter would be just as devastating, if not worse, and you still stick to your story. After all, if the USA is democratic, and Chinese communist, then, the USA should be immune from the disaster of that scale. However, it isn't, and you know it.
You lost the debate right there, and the rest of this discussion is you just trying be a big old dumb redneck bully to get your point across.
So please, do you even have an explanation?
Why, oh why, pre-tell, does communism make an earthquake worse. Are there less troops to respond? Well, the PLA is bigger than our army. They put 50k soldiers into the disaster area on day 1 while, how many people did we put into New Orleans post Katrina? Hell, the head of China went out of his way to go to the disaster site in person on day 1, and he's been there several times, but our own President Bush couldn't even be bothered to get his rear off of AirForce 1.
The thing is, most governments, regardless of economic system, if they have any money and any organization, can cope well with disasters. In fact, totalitarian regimes are often better at disaster recovery and use disaster recovery to justify their existence, more so than the Democratic regimes. It's that, totalitarian regimes have total command and control and can marshal resources in a way that democracies can't.
This is my sig.
Well, first off, I am more than 25 years out of date, though I try to keep up (next to impossible to stay up on CS and biological sciences). IOW, I am certainly not the definitive answer on this. But with that said, I have been thinking about this. From what I have read, it is that the immune response is massive and hurts the body (since this was unexpected, it says that our immune model is still seriously lacking). The vaccine is designed to kill the virus up front. IOW, a vaccine allows the virus to be seen and an attack mounted quickly. I "think" that if the response is fast enough and the body is not overwhelmed, it will probably be ok. But it could easily go the other way.
More importantly, the thought that I had was that this will likely strike down the strong. It is those who are old, young (pre 2 y.o), sick, or depressed immune system that will be spared this. The thought that came to me is that if this is around long enough, then those that will be relatively immune to it, are those with AIDs. Not just HIV, but AIDs. Their immune response may be low enough that they can survive this. What is interesting on this, is that the virus may actually select to wipe out the majority of the strong. There will be some that are immune to it for different reasons. But the AIDs folks may be spared this. This may actually create a schism in the human population in terms of Genetics. In particular, this could create 2 different races. Those who are still long-lived (80-100) and not infected with either Avian OR HIV. The other race would have to have HIV to survive and it would start expression before age 2. These ppl would be relatively short-lived, say 40-50. My guess is that those without HIV will have NO desire to be with those with HIV. Within a few generations, the short-lives would probably not be living in the same area because of the lowered human density.
When I was in the bio field, I argued that a number of virus will not be detectable because they are beneficial to us. This could end up being just that to a short life. That is the virus is carried forward and overall appears to have no impact on us (because they would not be looking for it). I am guessing that a number of Introns ("supposedly dead regions" that are cut out) will turn up to be old viruses that have hung around. It is possible that it helped with 4D positioning of the [DR]NA, but it may be that it keeps other viruses at bay.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.