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66% Apple Market Share For Sales of High-End PCs
An anonymous reader lets us know about a recent analysis of retail computer sales numbers that shines a spotlight on Apple's sales growth as the PC market has flattened. In the lucrative >$1,000 PC segment, in the first quarter of 2008, Apple's retail market share was 66%. This includes a 64% market share for laptops and a market share for desktops of 70%. The article attributes the bulk of this success to Apple's stores. Fortune picked up this report and pointed out the somewhat obvious fact that the >$1,000 PC segment is Apple's by default, since Dell, HP, and Lenovo sell the bulk of their machines in the $500-$750 range, and Apple has only one model selling for less than $1,000. As the analyst said, "If you don't give people a choice [in the Apple stores], people will spend more."
fanboys GO
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
is exactly why I don't own an Apple. I'd love to have a Macbook Pro, but I just can't justify paying that much for yet another computer. I really think Apple would increase their market share of all systems if they lowered their prices or at least had models that started at lower prices.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
...will always find someone to tend the fire. Still, I'm sure they sleep better knowing that they're 'Trendy Mac', rather than 'Fat, Sad PC'.
* What they don't realize, of course, is that PC only got fat because Mac's mother gave him a cookie every time he fucked her.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
"If you don't give people a choice [in the Apple stores], people will take their money somewhere else."
Honestly, Apples are overpriced for what hardware and software they contain. Sure they may use a stable UNIX based OS, but you can get just that with any respectable Linux OS (Debian, Ubuntu, etc., depending on the person's preference.)
If you were to count BTO computers sold over phone or internet in the U.S. Apple's market share would drop. Add the rest of the world and Apple's market share shrinks even more.
That said, Apple is gaining speed and is only going to be selling more computers for the foreseeable future.
It's funny to watch Windows Fanboys write about Mac. Somehow, they always loop the discussion around to their favorite software. Check out this exchange from the fine Apple Watch article:
Really? For about a year now, studies have shown that everyone knows about Vista but no one wants it. It's poor performance has convinced all but the most self loathing of people that Windows is not going anywhere. But finally, Apple is now using almost exactly the same hardware - How can anyone not see that the only remaining difference is software that does not suck?
You have to wonder if any of these people have ever used anything but Windows for more than a week in the last ten years.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Very funny, you flipped a troll conversation about Apple fanboys into a Windows fanboy send up. It is as if the entire energy and malice of the GP was turned onto the GP by a subtle shift in balance.
See, guys? I TOLD you it'd be the year of OSX on the desktop!!
Of course! Only the prettiest and the healthiest Core 2 Duo's are hand picked by the Intel engineers in bunny suits and lovingly put down on the MacBook motherboards.
This, of course, is in contrast to the Core 2 Duo's that goes into the Dell laptop - they're from the bottom of the barrel and they are shoveled into the sockets by some off-shored child labor getting paid 25 cents an hour, not getting that TLC that the Apple counterparts get. No wonder the Core 2 Duo's in Dells are so dysfunctional!
Take a look at a brick and mortar store retail store that sells computers. You probably won't see anything over $1000, because that's not what the market that buys computers there wants.
People going to Staples or whatever to buy a PC want a cheap office machine, emphasis on cheap, and they want it immediately. People willing to spend more or wait a few days will either order from somewhere like Dell, have a whitebox store assemble one from parts, or just do it themselves.
OK, I'll take some fanboy bait...
The bang-for-buck of Apple's hardware plus their software is a little difficult to justify by itself (though it is arguably a better deal than Windows and a lot less setup than linux). But the industrial design should not be overlooked as a value factor.
Compare a "cheap" consumer-grade MacBook to a similar consumer-grade Dell. The MacBook not only looks svelte and (to some) cool, it also is simply more convenient to deal with. If your computer is something that you use a lot, some of these little details can be very important.
I really appreciate the way a MacBook is almost completely silent. That it slips into the lid of a briefcase. That its speakers, microphone, and camera are all accessible but almost invisible. That I can click, right-click, scroll, pan, and more without moving my hand from one place. That it stays out of my way while I use it, instead of calling attention to itself: no blinking lights, no flashy logos in my face, no stupid buttons all over: it is just a screen with easy-to-use input devices.
legally, you can't... you'd be violating the MacSpeak EULA.. ;)
You have one of two cases and I don't think you like the one you already chose:
Both of these are losers for Windows fanboys, but the first is closer to true and th worst. The fact is that people are paying twice as much for Macs and the only difference is software and marginally better hardware. There are "premium" Wintel laptops but they are sitting on the shelf because people are buying twice as many premium Apples. The real bummer for those other hardware makers is that they have produced far more laptops than Apple can and must be piling up big losses while Apple is having trouble metting demand.
You joke about it but you have nothing but insults.
No calls now, I'm
As the analyst said, "If you don't give people a choice [in the Apple stores], people will spend more."
Translation to reality:
"If you give people the choice between, as an example, a $2500 Wintel PC and a $500 Wintel PC, both of which offer the same crappy Windows Experience, most people will choose to invest less of their money in a losing proposition."
What truly amazes me is that, apparently, a full third of the people who can afford a superior product nonetheless invest in the inferior version.
Uh, this is nothing exciting. How many PC's have you bought in a store. Not many. This is retail outlets. Dell sells three times as many computers and tons more over $1000 direct from them to you without the overhead cost of a store filled with cool glass displays and backlighting. The apple stores are designed to be more like a nightclub. They want people to come in and fall in love with the piece of hardware and its smooth round corners. You spend the extra money so you can make love to it. Post the stats on all computer sales and see Apple still with a very small bite of the global sales. Don't get too excited Macaddicts.
jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
Haha, only serious, right? First off, in order to get a Dell laptop with a comparable processor, you have to go to the XPS line. You're not going to get an equivalent Core 2 Duo without jumping up to the high cost lines.
But even then, you're stuck with the cheapest EVERYTHING ELSE. A computer isn't just the processor.
You have the motherboard, the memory, the hard drive, the video card, the sound card, the battery, the power adapter, the integrated peripherals like webcam and microphone, the keyboard, the mouse, the case, the ports and where they're located, and so on.
Yeah, they both use Intel Core 2 Duo processors from the same source. But you'd better believe that you're not getting the same quality everything else on a Dell as you are on an Apple.
Trust me on this. A Dell laptop lasts a maximum of two years without major repair. Either the hard drive dies or the memory dies. That's not to mention the Dell batteries which become useless just after the warranty expires. Guess who works at a company that has a contract with Dell to provide all our PCs.
It's all about pinning your opponent and cutting off their air supply.
How long will all the other laptop makers be able to hide the losses their "premium" laptops must be suffering because no one wants Vista? While they "race to the bottom" Apple is selling exactly the same hardware for twice as much. The only difference is software. The blackout will come soon.
Most of the stuff on
Just a friendly note to all other commenters posting in this and any other thread:
Don't be a jackass. Seriously, If you have an opinion, express it thoughtfully but avoid assigning labels to those with different opinions.
For example:
"Apple fanboys are so stupid--they'll pay too much money for a computer they can't upgrade or build for themselves."
This is how an immature person makes an argument. I know I'm asking a lot here on slashdot, but it would be great to see the above opinion expressed in the following way:
"I'm not sure it's wise to spend one's money on a computer that can't be upgraded or one that can't be assembled from parts you pick for yourself. For me, the convenience tax and premium prices for Apple hardware are way too high to be justified."
Macintosh users should note that taking the former flamebait only reinforces the baiting behavior. You paid a pretty penny for the computer you're using to respond so try to use more than just the "CFCKYUO" keys in your response. As much as you might try, it's futile to explain the subjective nature of the "Mac experience" to the kind of person who types flamebait anyways.
Just say no to flamebait.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Fortune doesn't know what "by default" means. Dell et al certainly offer LOTS of machines that cost > $1000.
You can get a pretty decked out computer these days for about $1,000. I mean, a good core 2 and 8gb of ram with nVidia 9600 GT. (sans monitor, but that's maybe $200 for a decent one). OK, I'll do the math:
Core 2 Duo E8400: $200
Intel mobo (your pick): $110
8 gb of ram: $160 (that's not a typo)
Case w/ power supply: $100
Hard drive: $80
Optical drive: $35
GeForce 9600 GT: $175
Mouse+Keyboard: $30
Shipping (newegg): $30
Total: $920
Swap the E8400 for a a Core 2 Quad Q9450 adds $150 so $1070 total. How the hell are people spending more than $1,000 on a computer? With some judicious corner cutting you can get way more computer than the average person needs for far less than $1,000. The only way you're paying significantly more than $1,000 is if you are buying Intel Extreme, multiple graphics cards, and stupid $300+ motherboards.
Even laptops hover around $1,000 for a good rig. I designed a Lenovo Thinkpad T61 15.4" widescreen with a good T9300 CPU, 2 gb of ram, and other fixings for just around $1,100 - $1,200. And most people don't need all those extras or even as good a computer as a Thinkpad.
So yeah, don't buy Apple. The fact they are selling you something for over $1,000 is suspicious unless it comes with at least 4 cores and 8 gb of ram.
I mean seriously. If you can't drop a grand on a computer and you are "professional" then I think you might need to think about another profession. All these people whining about computers that cost more that $1000. I don't get it. A photographer can easily spend $10K on a good digital camera set up and not blink an eye. Ask any carpenter how much they have spent on their tools, 10K is a drop in the bucket. But so many /.ers get their panties in a wad about spending anything more than $500. This is so stupid. Why not get something that works. As a long time windows user that made the switch, OSX simply works better. I still have to use windows at work and I have reboot 2 or 3 times a day. Although I do have to admit that Macs run windows better than any Dell, HP, or whatever I've had. So in short if you are a professional and you are still messing around with low end crap....all I have to say is you get what you pay for. And if you consider this flamebait or a fanboi masturbation exercise then so be it....I know what works.
Badges!?! We don't need no stinking badges!
If you need to mark them as foe, the other ones are westbake, willeyhill and Odder. He has one more that he seems to have stopped using after two posts.
I don't know if he's created more in the past two weeks, I haven't been paying much attention to the whole drama.
The twitter monologues. Click on my homepage and be amazed.
You have GNU/Linux. Windows users are buying Macs for twice as much as they are willing to pay for Vista machines because they don't know enough about free software. The party will be over for both Microsoft and Apple when more vendors join the free software movement. EEEPC and Dells with Linux preinstalled just work and that's a large measure of what Apple customers are spending premium dollars on.
A side note to all of this is that premium is not what it used to be. $1,000 is what people used to spend on middle of the road desktops ... fifteen years ago. The same equipment would sell for $2,500 if it's worth had kept up with inflation. Obviously, that has not happened even for Apple. Premium computers were selling for $5,000 back then and that's what they are going for today, despite tremendous strides it convenience and utility.
Apple notebooks are manufactured by Quanta, the same company that makes many Dell boxes. They use the same Intel CPUs, graphics, and chipsets as Dell boxes. They use Seagate and Hitachi hard drives, like many Dell boxes.
So, where's the difference?
Do you really believe Apple is the only computer maker that offers computers for more than $1000? Or did Alienware suddenly drop their prices?
When I moved out on my own I started buying tools to help me keep my apartment and eventually my house repaired. I started out picking up the first tool I saw that was cheap and did the job. $10 hammer, $5 multi-screwdriver set, 200-piece no-name, all-in-one socket sets for $20.00, etc. They did the job. After all, you can turn a screw with a cheap screwdriver just like an expensive one.
Needless to say, I've had many versions of each over time. I can't count the times I've had my phillips-head screwdriver turn into a rounded-out, useless waste of money at the first recalcitrant screw. It always happens at the worst time too. After expressing my frustrations with my dad one time (in language that probably shocked him) He looked at me and simply said "Why don't you buy decent tools?" My response was "Have you seen how much they cost?!" He responded "How many times have you re-bought that screwdriver?". I had to admit that I'd probably spent twice the cost of a "pro" screwdriver over the years on cheap ones and cursed them every time.
Over time I started applying this lesson to other things in my life. I found that every time I took the cheap option "to make due" I was disappointed and invariably wound up replacing it much sooner than I should have. I found that I actually saved money and aggravation by buying quality the first time. I traded in my cheap POS for a used Mercedes. I threw out my Walmart tennis-shoes for a pair of quality walking shoes. I passed up the $3.00 T-shirts and invested in quality brands. The list goes on...
I've had the extreme pleasure of driving my Mercedes every day for the last 10 years. It's as good as the day I bought it and when I go to sell it I'll have paid less for it year-over-year, than I ever did on the myriad el-cheap-O's I used to drive. Where I used to replace my shoes every year, or so, I have had my current pair of shoes going on 4 years and have experienced more comfort than I had imagined possible in a shoe up till that point. And my T-shirts? They used to fade and grow thin after a few washes and I'd donate them or throw them out and have to re-buy them. Today, I still have T-shirts that look almost new that I've worn regularly for 7 years. I still have one I wore to my brother's wedding rehearsal 9 years ago.
All this is a very long way of saying that, amortized over time, buying quality is often cheaper (and almost always more pleasurable) than buying the first thing you can afford.
Now, I've built my share of PC's. I enjoy picking through catalogues and eBay auctions and getting the best bang for my buck. But, those are my hobby machines. My TrixBox. My MythTV. My fun stuff. My main system is (currently) a Dual G5 Power Mac that I bought refurb'ed shortly after they came out. Even then, it cost me more than $1,000, but I've had it almost 5 years now and It's still doing it's job well. My neighbor just gave me his 3rd Dell in 5 years (a trade for re-installing Windows so many times). He's spent way more on all those systems than I did on my one and has had no end to his aggravation. I sit down at my system (that I've never had to re-install) and get my work done. Would I like to get a cool new 8-way Intel system? Sure. No doubt. But I don't *need* it yet, and I haven't saved up for it yet. It's budgeted for this fall - yay! :-D
Some people can get by just fine with the cheapest piece of crap Dell or Walmart sells. It looks like crap, it's loaded with useless crap, it's made with the cheapest parts that can be had, it's "settling" for the lowest common denominator. Like the cheap screwdriver, it can get the job done, but you wind up fighting it every step of the way. Their entire experience with computers is based on that. They are used to it. They expect it. It's sad.
There is something special that you experience the first time you pick up a professional tool. The hammer feels more balanced. The screwdriver turns the screws with surprisingly little effo
"terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
Perhaps it also has to do with the fact that Mac laptops are damn good PC laptops too... and some people are willing to pay the premium to have both a very nice OSX laptop and a great WinPC laptop that's not about to break in 12 months.
I've had experiences with my share of laptop manufacturers over time - with differing levels of disappointment - and I've seen paper machie constructions with more structural integrity than some Dell laptops.
I'm rather happy with my Lenovo these days. It's pretty solid and fast enough.
But from using current Mac laptops, I've been impressed at how well they work as a WinPC laptop (runs Vista better than any other I've tried), and the quality of hardware / design.
There's lots of competition in the PC mobile market.
But there's not that much competition for good and durable PCs in that market as one would like.
Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
Personally I think the claim is mis-leading anyway. The category is narrowly defined as not only over 1000, but also bought retail. So it's crafted to exclude all the expensive workstations and servers bought by corporations, since they don't usually just drive a truck to WalMart to buy them retail.
It's a bit like saying that Joe is the world leader in selling over-$1000 cats by Ebay and air mail. Sure, he only sold one on Ebay, but he's the only guy who sedated the cat and sent it by air mail. The rest of the people bought their cats face to face, or had them delivered by courier in a few cases. Narrow it down to Ebay and air mail, and, bam, Joe has 100% of that market.
Better invest in Joe. In fact, this year he found two stray kittens in his backyard, and plans to sell them both on Ebay by air mail. That's 100% year-on-year growth, baby. At this rate, in 20 year, Joe will ship over 1 million cats yearly. As a savvy investor, you don't want to miss _that_ boat.
In other words, it's just a PR masturbation exercise.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
FACT Apples have always been about the same OR BETTER priced compared to equal PC's
FACT Apple has always been at the top of the list for quality and customer service
FACT one of the reasons Apple is doing so well right now is Redmond fanboys are buying Macs to run Vista on...even the PC mags agree that MacBooks are the best windows machines out there.
FACT sub $1000 PCs are crap..thats why most people that go to Dell's site to buy one of those $500 PCs leave spending around $1500.
A kind of similar tale for me. My college has a program where it "gives" the new students a laptop. It's a basic model, HP Compaq 6515b. Does it's job, not high end, but it does what it's supposed to. About a month before we got ours, we hear that the incoming semester received Macbooks. I've no idea what kind, but they were the same price as the Compaqs, so that may give you a ballpark.
And let me tell you, my friends, were all sorts of pissed. I asked them why, because logicaly, if the whole school uses Windows PCs, having macs would only complicate matters. Their responce, and I'm not making this up.
"Macs are pretty. I don't care how good they are, but they look nice. I feel like a REAL college student if I have a Mac on my desk."
Shocked me, and nothing I said could convince them that they wanted a Mac because they were pretty. IF they wanted it because of ANY other reason, i'd been fine. But just because it's shiny...it was just beyond me. Apple sells image, which is why they have whole stores set up to show it off.
Next time buy a $40 card that works. You only defeat yourself when you give money to a card maker that is not playing nice. I'm glad people write software for nasty hardware but I'm not about to waste months waiting for it. There are too many good cards and too little time to fool with the bad ones.
I am a name troll of Westlake. Visit my homepage to learn why.
Firewire (400 in the MB, 400/800 in the MBP). Tiny built-in webcam and microphone. Built-in DVI-out. Built-in analog/digital (optical) audio in/out. Thin. Light. Near-silent operation. Fast boot. Slot loading drive (minus points for not having a DVD burner on the entry level MB, which is pretty cynical). Magsafe power adapter. Tiny power brick with built-in cable management. Multi-touch trackpad (better on MBP, but even the MB has two-finger scrolling and tap.) No stickers. No preloaded crapware. OS X.
Money is social status. It's the fact that it costs more and is out of reach of the mob that makes it stylish...
If you buy a pair of ripped jeans which cost you $5 you are cheap and have no style. If you buy the same pair for $200 you are a superstar.
Deleted
If you have a recent box, just download and install kalyway or leo4all. Free mac for your PC. Not compatible with all hardware yet, but after swapping my Geforce 8xxx for a 7xxx, and disabling my second cpu core, it runs great. Definitely a step up from windows on the same machine, even WITH the better gfx and another core. But give it some time, and drivers will be out for that hardware too.
Yes, but the intersection is still mis-leading. Percentage of retail _or_ percentage of over-1000 computers could say something. (If you do understand that you are talking about a particular niche, not about the company's overall profitability or market share.) But the intersection is just a narrowly crafted niche, for PR masturbation reasons.
It's like saying that Moraelin's Fairies won the most games played on a rainy Tuesday under artificial lighting. They have a whole two games won under those conditions, while everyone else has at best one win that's on a rainy day _and_ tuesday _and_ played at night. It's trivia, at best. It doesn't make it the best team in any actual category that matters, it just crafts an artificial niche to make my team look good.
And probably more importantly, a tell-tale sign of a PR masturbation exercise, is that even that niche doesn't really support the conclusion they try to feed you. ""If you don't give people a choice [in the Apple stores], people will spend more."" Really? Exactly which part of that percentage supports that conclusion? Did they compare before and after a price hike, or what? Did Apple try to have cheap computers too, and people were going for those instead?
But even that wouldn't be visible, if you only look at the over-1000 segment. You need an entirely different sample to make that point.
No, it's very likely just a PR exercise masquerading as news.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
willyhill, you are a worse blight on Slashdot than the plague of twitter posts which you go on about.
Are you a short perl script?
You certainly sound like one, as you repeat just about the entire post over and over, it seems in response to any post by twitter.
Same point, more succinct:
"There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey."
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900), (attributed)
Damn true, and I concur with your post 100%.
I have a simple FreeBSD notebook here and can do my work without MS-Windows. FACT sub $1000 PCs are crap..thats why most people that go to Dell's site to buy one of those $500 PCs leave spending around $1500 Who the hell buys complete PCs? I recently upgraded my old PC for just $300. It is over twice as fast as my last PC. And btw, I can construct an entire PC, part by part, and it runs without any problems for just $200 more. And it has a very decent quality, it is not comparable with any PC that companies like Dell sell (I have not single no-name component). Go and buy 1GB RAM more in Apple shop. They charge you about 10x as much. My PC parts are carefully chosen. They are not crap at all. I simply choose good quality prodcuts and try to find out which have a decent price at the moment according to their speed and power requirements. You won't have this choice with Apples.
FACT Apples have always been about the same OR BETTER priced compared to equal PC's
I don't know why I spend my time on an obvious fanboy, but this is just ridiculous. Do 800+ bucks RAM-upgrades ring a bell?And the rest of your FACTs sound just as plausible as Microsoft's 'Get The Facts'
...."Have you mooed today?"...
nothing. If I can make a machine for under a thousand $ that can play crysis on high with 35 fps (atleast) then why buy a mac? Most people do not need or even want the extras you get with a >1000$ machine. And guess what businesses want (the real money maker)? Thats right the 1000$ machine. So this leaves the cows that want the shiney mac and artists. I have never been impressed by a Mac or a PC. But if Mac really wants into the non fantasy computer world, then they need make there product work on a PC. What with the high gas prices I don't think the cows are willing to go to pasture for these worthless machines anyway. That leaves the artists. And a really serious artist probably needs more than a Mac can provide also. This whole thing seems like a train wreck waiting to happen. If Apple wants to survive then they need to change.
In my experience things have always been best quality when mid-priced though. I've bought cheap running shoes which didn't fall apart but were uncomfortable, Nike ones which fell apart because they were made of a material that decays over time, and finally Hi-Tec which have always been robustly built and not that expensive. And the clothes I buy are just clothes - I don't seek out the cheapest or the most expensive, but I go back to places where I've found ones that fit me well (they're often either a little too wide or short for me) and are made of material that feels comfortable.
When I started out building myself PCs I tried to get the cheapest parts, but then when I stopped being a student and got a job I realized I could pay more and get stuff that's comfortably faster or bigger. That said, my cheap K6-2 system still runs today, though it has been made obsolete by my old dell latitude laptop which makes as good a server at 1/6 of the power consumption.
I bought an Apple Keyboard recently because I like to try out interesting looking peripherals every once in a while. I can handle the keys being flat and the enter key being small - that's all fine with me, I bought it because it was different. But while the body is quite stiff and heavy, the key mechanisms themselves are pretty cheap feeling - the keys all rock from side to side, and some keys only have one spring under it when they really should have two or more. The rocking is made worse by the fact that they're flat - normal slightly concave keys will still cup your fingertip when they rock slightly, but with the flat ones you can feel the slope.
I know that a keyboard isn't necessarily representative of the whole shebang, but it gives the impression that nowadays the extra money is going more toward design than engineering.
In that Apple actually pays computer scientists, engineers, etc. a decent wage. And they are run by managers that actually give a damn about the job that their team does.
So we get things that actually work better out of the box, and mature well over time. Hell, each apple product I have bought has lasted me 4+ years. And then I only "upgrade" because I can afford to upgrade the storage of the laptops myself, increase the RAM significantly, and a fresh install, and give it to a member of my family. Who are shocked that the finest computer in their house was not the dell running vista, but the four-year-old mac... Gaining new Apple users, and when they will buy a new computer in a few years, they might decide to go with the brand that has lasting value.
Seriously, if you want to pay less, then you devalue their employees. Make 'em more like Microsoft minions, expendable and not working together at any point. Sure you get the product eventually... And its cheaper.... But customers will most spend the rest of that products life complaining about it.
And no, I am not bashing the "free" concept of Linux, because Linux is a passion. One might spend a few days working out a glitch they encountered and submitting the fix. Then they feel great about accomplishing something no one else has done, and might go on to mend other things, or add other features. By keeping it a hobby that all are free to contribute to, people contribute for free.... And if we added up all those man hours on our favorite distro in a given year, it would be a fortune to pay.
3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
Didn't RTFA, but does that figure take into account the possibly large number of users who never bought a computer, but built one from parts?
Here's what has been pointed out so far:
* Apple has such a big market share for the $1000+ market because most PC are cheaper.
* True, but if you deck out a regular PC to match Apple's specs, it'll be around the same price.
You're all missing something rather significant. Apple makes very competitive machines, but they don't make all those low or no margin PCs that other manufactures make to boost sales and act as a loss leader for their more expensive models.
And, because of that Apple is doing quite well. Thank you very much. Apple could greatly increase their market share if they started selling low cost PCs. But, if Apple started doing that, they'd be lowering their profit margins. And, that would make the Apple stores unprofitable. Apple would be forced to close the Apple stores and cut back on customer service in general. That would make Apple just another Dell or HP.
Compare an Apple store to a typical PC retailer. There are dozens of Macs all running, and they're all connected to the Internet. iPhones and iPods are everywhere. Sales people don't chase you away if you're just browsing. Heck, browsing is highly encouraged. And, salespeople actually know something about the product. Apple service is highly rated by almost all consumer surveys.
In other words, Apple sells PCs that they can actually make a pretty profit on, and then use that profit to build an image that encourages people to spend the extra dough for an Apple PC. All this makes Apple (get ready for this...) more profitable than any other computer or electronics company - ever. Back in 1998, I bought $1000 of Apple when Steve Jobs took over. I thought I was clever when I sold it after a few months for about $5000. Well, if I was still holding on to that stock today, it would be worth over $1,500,000. Duh! Over the past decade Apple's stock has outperformed Google.
Whether or not you are a Drinker-of-the Koolade or an Apple Basher, you have to look at Apple as a way to be highly profitable in a commodity business. You don't need a MacBook to appreciate this aspect of the business. Anyone who is interested in running a company should pay attention to Apple's playbook. Apple caters to the higher end of the market, but unlike companies like Bose and Mercedes, which also have a similar strategy, Apple's products are not prime luxury goods that only a few can consider buying. A more significant number is that Apple has broken the 10% mark of market share and is the third largest manufacture of PCs. And, that's pretty hard to bash.
Basically if I only get an extra 3-4 hours of work out of a Mac than a windows machine over the course of the machine's life time, it's paid for the difference in price.
Stupid Cheap Guitars
Thanks. I tire of people reducing an entire computer to 3 or 4 components. I bought a MB simply because it was the best laptop for what I wanted to pay. I figured I'd poke around in OSX, but basically run XP on it.
A month later, I had put my work computer away and was only using the MB at work, and then found that XP at home just bugged the hell out of me with all its annoying messages and beeps and boops and "I connected to the Internet, aren't you proud of me" business. The next bonus I got bought me a Mac Pro (on it right now) and I sold my lovingly handcrafted gaming PC to a friend so it would stop collecting dust.
It's a whole package.
I would like to see a break down of the age ranges for those who are buying the Macs. I have multiple computers in my home of both the PC and Mac varieties. I purchased a $1500 iMac a couple years ago just to experiment with a Mac. My wife became more comfortable using that then the lap top she was using and we wound up buying her her own. Interestingly enough, my daughter still prefers her PC. My mother-in-law (age 75)was using a basic HP lap top but has since switched to an iMac due to being a self-contained unit. Once the other "older" family members played with it, they began purchasing them. It is now a very common scenerio to find all of the 50+ year olds in my family using Macs for email and iChat instead of PCs and phones. This is either due to comfort with the system, the general appearance, or just because they plug in 1 power cord and go with it. Each one of them could easily get by with a cheaper, yet still functional enough, Windows based PC.
If going by personal observations, I will wager a guess that the larger part of the 66% is made up of people who are at mid to upper age ranges.
Folks, this is the Samuel Vimes 'Boots' Theory Of Socio-Economic Injustice. From Wikipedia (easier to blockquote than the dead tree):
Early in his career, while he is still a nearly-impoverished Watchman, Vimes reflects that he can only afford ten-dollar boots with thin soles which don't keep out the damp and wear out in a season or two. A pair of good boots, which cost fifty dollars, would last for years and years - which means that over the long run, the man with cheap boots has spent much more money and still has wet feet.
This thought leads to the general realization that one of the reasons rich people remain rich is because they don't actually have to spend as much money as poor people; in many situations, they buy high-quality items (such as clothing, housing, and other necessities) which are made to last. In the long run, they actually use much less of their disposable income.
Chuck Norris: Socialism == a thousand years of darkness.
Other issues I noted really demonstrate that learning the "windows way" really limits the user. Example: you don't HAVE to close the document you have open to move it or rename it in MacOS, even though you've grown accustom to having to do so in Windows. I won't even get into the way Windows users over-think installing and uninstalling apps!
....Apple's big selling point is it's software.....
Wrong! Apple's big selling point is a whole, not half of a computer. Apple sells an integrated system the sum of which is greater than it parts. When you buy a car, you get a whole vehicle. You don't pay extra for the engine or the brakes. When you buy a toaster, the cord for it comes with it. All products EXCEPT computers, other than Apple's, come as a completed whole working device, where the user doesn't have to spend extra money, such as PC users have to do. Mac users don't have to waste money on extra security software, for example.
People are willing to spend money to get a complete working system. In the end that is cheaper than having to waste valuable time to periodically have to clean crapware off the system, after having already spent time to clean up the initial, performance robbing garbage, put on the box by the likes of Dell or HP, before the customer even turns it on. MS and the PC makers seem to feel that the users time is not worth much if anything at all. There are a lot of folks who do value their time to do productive work or have fun. They don't want to spend that precious time futzing with a balky computer.
All theory is gray
I think your calculator malfunctioned! Do many Apple products come at a slight premium? Probably. Does it stop me from buying a damn MacBook Air? Nope.
I have never had a Mac, or any of its associated hardware, die on me, and my son gets the hand me downs pretty rapidly. He just got the year old MacBook. And, somebody else will get that when he gets this... And, on they go for five or six years, until they're in the hands of 5 year olds.
The difference is the software! But, the hardware is pretty damn nice at times!
the apple one has an led backlight and a 512MB 8600m gt, it also weighs significantly less ....
instead of the vostro, you should be looking at the m1530 for the 15 inch, for the 17 inch, not really a comparison. (xps?)
It's a bit like comparing a (Hyundai/kia/lada) to (BMW,mercedes,lexus). They both have an engine and four wheels. but the plastics you touch when you sit inside them, are definitely different.
But I guess you wouldn't know....
You must be new to the Intertubes. Ever hear of "Usenet"? Threadjacking has been around a lot longer than twitter ...
You should see why there are a bunch of folks on
And car companies that do that piss off car geeks to no end. If they can't work on their own car, there's no point.
So I'm sure people here can understand why 'normal' users may like macs but to us, they're garbage.
Bullish Machine Tzar
The title of this post is sensationalistic, but it should be obvious to even the biggest luddite that the biggest problem that Dell, Lenovo, HP, sony and even Asus have is Microsoft.
That sounds like the start of another classic Microsoft bashing session, but it's not. The problem that all these companies have is not poor quality hardware, or lack of features, or even ugly hardware (although anyone who has ever opened a Mac tower must realise the extreme amount of thought and work that went into designing the case and the insides). Rather the problem is that all of those companies are dependent on a company that has its own agenda and treats all of its partners as if to only tolerate them, not as if they were valuable in any real way to Microsoft.
If one of the big hardware makers had the wisdom and the courage to buy up a significant stake in a popular Linux distribution, be it Ubuntu or Suse/Novell, they would be, in the long term in a very favourable position.
Firstly, consumers don't really care about the OS. They like OSX because Apple pays such an enormous amount of attention right down to the single pixel corners of windows, but the basically just want to surf, chat, work, email, play games etc.
Apple has been able to leverage its control of both the hardware and the software to deliver a good user experience, and crucually, a stable one with all the tools (and more) that a average consumer needs to use their computer.
If, say Sony, which puts a lot of effort into the design of their machines, were to say, buy Suse, or simply start up their own Kubuntu based distribution (the KDE 4.1 desktop is nothing short of amazing), and most importantly build up a developer team to start making beautiful but simple to use applications, they would
a) have the control over what went into the distro nd what not, b) an enormous amount of developer talent worldwide to base their efforts on
c) crucially, control of their own destiny.
If Sony were then to preload enough, simple and good apps into the computers, and keep it open enough to encourage others to develop for it,they could very well take Apple on in their own space. And it would grow.
The sad thing is that none of these companies is able to find the courage or has the vision to build up a long term effort like that,that might very well mean losses over the short term, and possibly even a break with Microsoft.
None of them will do that. Hell, even Microsoft could do it, if they started their own computer brand. they would lose all their hardware partners within a year, but their hardware in the form of Keyboards, mice and Xbox has not been too bad.
Ok, back to my beer, now.
...Unless you like spending time setting up a system exactly how you want it...
In a sense, geeks with money can buy a Mac and have their cake and eat it too, at least when it comes to software. With software like Parallels or Fusion, you can install and run every OS MS has ever made, from DOS on up. You can install any number versions of Linux. OSX itself has a *NIX core that will compile and run most UNIX software. A good geek can muck around in the software innards until the system is exactly to their liking.
Now if you're a hardware geek, or poor, better get or build yourself a PC box with just exactly the bits and pieces you want and then have fun with the software as well. Booting multiple OS on a normal PC is tricker, with more chance of something going awry, than simply running any number of OS on a Mac under a VM. Of course VM software works on a regular PC also. Geeks can even run OSX on a regular non-Mac PC.
On that note, I wonder if someone would get in trouble for coming out with a VM on a PC that ran a legally bought copy of OSX as guest OS under say Linux as the host. Maybe something like that already exists. It seems that would be a more elegant solution than the Pystar hack. If users can run a legally obtained copy of Windows in a VM on a Mac, it ought to be OK for someone to run a legal copy of OSX under Linux or even Windows.
Does Apple's EULA or any EULA for that matter have the force of a legally binding agreement? If there is no violation of law, such as copyright law, there may not be much that Apple can do about such a scenario.
All theory is gray