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BMW Introduces GINA Concept Car, Covered In Fabric
smithtuna33 writes "Ever wondered what the metal skin on your car is actually good for? Engineers at BMW have decided that fabric might work just as well. The doors literally peel away from the side of the car, the engine bay opens up down the middle, and pretty much everything (such as headlamps) is hidden until the fabric reveals it. It is a stunning concept that has already been influencing BMW's designs. The video is well worth watching."
I'd call a car made out of nice fabrics a 'gina too!
the skinnable car!
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
Any car that winks at you has to be taken seriously... ;)
The video is really cool, but was it a real car or a computer model? And I wonder how the fabric behaves at high speeds. And how do you wash the car? I have loads of other questions but I think the concept is fantastic. Cars that can change shape! Mmmmm... :)
-- Cheers!
A lot of people are questioning the crash safety, but the metal skin of a car doesn't really have anything to do with that anyway. Stuff flying up on the road could be a problem, though it seems like that stuff always hits and chips the windshield.
I think the most obvious danger would be someone taking a knife to the skin to break into the car and hotwire it. Or is this material stronger than that?
So the chassis is still rigid right? Imagine unintentional impacts with external objects. The skin was meant to be protection for the car and driver. Flying rocks, small animals while the car is parked, pranksters, and thieves of engine parts make this not work so well. As well psychologically the driver will feel less protected in this new concept of a fabric skin. Imagine if your house was made out of cardboard... On the other hand I always like making cars lighter. I can see this becoming the norm if all the kinks are worked out.
Are you saying that the thin sheet metal is providing the strength of the car? I was always under the impression that the frame was providing that rigidity of the car.
To reply to some of my questions about it: "The special fabric is supported by a metal wire structure. At specific points, the high-strength metal is enhanced by carbon struts with a higher flexibility. They are used predominantly for round, moving contours with a particularly narrow radius."
Taken from the press release found here
First off it's a concept vehicle. The point is to try new things, good or bad, to see how it works.
Moving forward, the skin of this car is almost purely for aerodynamic effect. There is a certain amount of visual additive, and it keeps the wind and dirt off the occupants. In reference to other mechanical value, there are plenty of cars which have no skin at all and are faster than pretty much any other production road going vehicle. Ariel's Atom, to name one. Cars don't need skins. Hell, look at motorcycles. The passengers aren't even contained in the vehicle!
I think it's an awesome idea. Of course, my current roadster is paint chipped all to hell and being able to replace body panels of fabric would be rather appealing, but think about washing your car. Strip it down like bed sheets and throw the skin in the washing machine. Want a new paint job? Maybe a thousand dollars of fabric, or perhaps even just a dye job. You could change your car's color in a matter of minutes.
That brings up a really interesting point. How do the police identify cars? Color and shape? Well those two are irrelevant with this vehicle. You can change the shape while you're moving and theoretically the color in about 10 minutes, I figure. It goes into a parking garage as a red roadster and comes out as a green pickup truck.
Most importantly, and realistically, I'm sure the weight savings are impressive. And saving weight improves performance both in the go fast and the save fuel sense of the term. Imagine this combined with the Tesla Roadster. Shazam!
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Which is exactly what that is, a concept, BMW comes up with an idea and floats it with the public to see what they think. Saturn did this with plastic bodies, "you'll never get a dinged door from a loose shopping cart.." While the metal skin of a car doesn't provide much protection, I bet it does add quite a bit to the weight of a car, and quite a bit of manufacturing (stamping, painting etc..) than a textile based covering.
At least they're thinking different.
I'd love to see this car in the shower. Or, at least for the instance of cars, either the front yard or the car wash.
How the hell would you wash these things? Something makes me think that a sponge and a hose just wouldn't cut it....
This has been done before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velorex
AccountKiller
I tested this theory by keying my jeans... while it somewhat hurt my thigh, the cloth was quite unaffected.
My conclusion: cloth is more resistant to minor cosmetic damage than painted sheet metal, and harder to cut than flash.*
Seriously though, cloth is actually quite resistant to things like impact and scratching, which to me sounds like a great reason to make parts which are really prone to little other than cosmetic damage out of it (keep in mind that in a serious accident, the damage which we are concerned with is not to the painted sheet metal on the outside, it's to the frame and chassis... if those are essentially undamaged, then any damage is really just cosmetic). Even a flimsy t-shirt requires some serious twisting or a tremendous amount of blunt trauma to take any noticeable damage, and something like canvas is substantially tougher, not to mention Kevlar and other synthetics which are highly resistant even to sharp trauma.
*Do not try this at home, goodness knows I didn't. All experimental data is fabricated... get it ated. I crack myself up.
Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
I think the most obvious danger would be someone taking a knife to the skin to break into the car and hotwire it.
How often does that happen with soft-tops?
Check out the trailer: you have Linux booting on a huge screen in the background.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i_sZtw0edo&feature=related
Sure, I think the old Beetle looks dorky, but I'd choose one of those over a new sports car.
Yes. Seriously.
"The fight for freedom has only just begun." - Geert Wilders
It could be possible that the right type of fabric could reduce air friction. Although water and air turbulence is different, scientists have found that dolphin skin is faster underwater than smooth steel-hulled craft.
Weight reduction is more valuable to fuel efficiency than reducing wind resistance. Both are important, but the biggest hit on fuel economy is generating momentum from a stop. Reducing weight reduces the energy required to put a car in motion. A BMW is going to spend more fuel going 0-30 than wind drag at 60+.
Then there's also the advantage this design would have for active aerodynamics. With a fabric skin, the body could dynamically reshape itself to create downforce only when needed, etc.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
I suffer every time I see one of his production car designs. But before this I could at least believe they were simply the best he could do - like Stevie Wonder designing clothing or Stephen Hawking doing brain surgery.
:-)
Now I see he can design a beautiful car.
And so all those other designs must be out of spite. Damn you, you sadistic bastard!
"Design fuhrer"? I wonder if that guy has any idea what kind of insult this represents to most Germans. Probably not.
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
Most cars (not trucks) these days are monocoque - they do not have a chassis. Therefor the strength of the vehicle is contained in the entire body as a whole from roof to doors to underbelly. About the only bits that don't matter are the wings over the wheels. Sure , theres extra crash protection built into the engine bay but thats in addition to the stregth of the rest of the vehicle. If you build a fabric car body you're back to using chassis' and the poor compromises they entail.
The visuals of that video are interesting, the soundtrack is beyond condescending.
Here is a literal transcript.
"GINA is an acronym -- a set of letters -- that stand for geometry -- shapes -- and function -- how things work -- an N -- n is a way of saying 'an infinite number' -- of adaptations -- meaning, there is a lot of change possible."
Their target audience does not know that an acronym is a set of letters, that geometry deals with shapes, that function is related to how things work, that N is a variable, and that adaptating means changing.
He goes on to babble a whole lot of meaningless babbling. "Context over Dogma, that's it!" are the last words in that presentations. Seldomly have I heard a saying so devoid of meaning.
Airplanes used fabric skins for years. They travel much faster than automobiles, so the strength isn't an issue. Even during WWII, most aluminum bodied aircraft used fabric covered control surfaces to allow easy repair of combat damage -- it is much easier to sew a new patch over a rip than it is to rivet aluminum patches.
-- http://www.swcp.com/~hudson/
the fact airplanes have been and are still being covered with fabric. The current favorite covering material is unsized Dacron glued in place and heated to shrink to a tight fit before painting. This is undoubtedly what the BMW design team used. I suggest those interested in the fabric coverings check out information on home built aircraft for details.
6F 9E A9 1E 96 9F 74 27 ED B8 81 6D 0C 4E 1E 78
My other Sig is a 229.
A car made out of tubular struts is going to be a lot stronger than the usual cars. Racing cars have their interior replaced with struts for roll and crash cages for the real occasions when they crash and tumble.
even ordinary cars are basically thin metal stretched over a cage, that's why the door pillars and windscreen are made from hefty bars, the thin bit of metal in your doorframe isn't going to save you from a side-on collision, but the door pillar will. So, I can't see this being any less safe simply because the bit in between are more obvious.
I think the most important aspect of reduced safety would be in crumple zones, a strut-based car wouldn't necessarily have these, or at least to the same extent that an ordinary car has.
Don't forget a lot of cars are made from carbon-fibre now. This wouldn't be any real difference to them.
German cars: Drivers are super-aggressive. They drive fast and push the car to its limits. Ignore them and they will accelerate away. Usually equipped with electronic countermeasures. If a German car is speeding, you can too. Never pass a German car. If it's going slow enough for you to keep up, there must be a reason. The German car driver is a fanatic -- willing to tolerate any amount of maintenance expense because of the joy of driving on those days when the car works properly.
Japanese cars: Drivers THINK they have a German car, when in fact they don't. These people have an inferiority complex -- anxious to prove that their Honda Accord is a drop-in replacement for a BMW 745LI, while secretly planning to buy a BMW next time. Well known taking risks that the German car drivers cannot afford to take. If you are passed at high speed by a Japanese car, rest assured they will draw out whatever law enforcement might be around. Be prepared to call 911 on your cell for an ambulance.
Korean cars: These people are trying to optimize the Total Cost of Ownership. They don't enjoy driving very much, but they spend very little money doing it. Similar to the Japanese car owner, the Korean owner is anxious to prove that his Hyundai Sonata is a drop-in replacement for a Honda Accord, while secretly planning to buy an Accord next time. Let's take a moment of silence to remember those early Korean car buyers and their dreadful machines.
American cars: Drivers are not paying attention. They didn't pay attention when they bought the car, why would you expect them to pay attention while driving it? Some will exceed the speed limit, but only in a straight line -- often beyond the limits of the brakes and suspension. The American car driver laughs about Korean cars, until he discovers that his own car is a lemon. Secretly planning to buy a Hyundai Sonata next time. American cars are the car of choice for people who like to complain about all the OTHER cars and drivers.
...and racecars use tape for body fixes during a race.
However lots of fabric can still be heavy. Keeping the convertible top clean (and cleaning out things in the fibers) can be a pain. I know some convertible drivers who intentionally don't lock them. I've heard of a top getting slashed despite the doors being unlocked to steal things (because thieves are not smart after all). I've driven fiberglass cars (Saab Sonnett III) and plastic (Pontiac Fiero) which were wonderful.
I would sure hate to see the dry cleaning bill for my car though! -Randy
Homer: Marge, you can stand there finding faults or you can knit me some seatbelts.
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Some of the very early sports cars (1930's) had bodies made of fabric stretched over a wooden frame. Apparently some early hot rods did too, because I think NHRA rules specifically ban this kind of body. Its a fire hazard.
I was on a team in college that built both hybrid-electric and straight E85 racecars. In this competition, power-to-weight and handling were everything!
So this is exactly how we built those cars. They were a space frame covered with aircraft fabric. Prior to that, we had been using fiberglass shells, but the aircraft fabric was so much lighter that I expect it's what we'll use for the foreseeable future.
After it is stretched tight over the frame and heat-shrunk, that stuff is like a drum head. I don't see flutter as a problem!
I think the most obvious danger would be someone taking a knife to the skin to break into the car and hotwire it.
All that does is save a thief from looking around for a brick.
And, having slashed the bodywork apart, they'll still have to climb through/between the structural members of the car, which will remain metal.
And, THEN, they'll have the chore of hotwiring a BMW, which is easily among the most nontrivial cars to do that with.[1]
Honestly, I think brick-through-the-window is a faster method.
[1]: I spent several days reading schematics and researching the topic on Google, trying to learn how to hotwire my own 1995 BMW 325i without replacing or adding any substantial parts, in an attempt to install a remote start as cheaply and simply as possible. And while I do consider myself somewhat talented in the art, I failed miserably.
Ended up needing to buy a spare BMW key (which requires two trips to the dealer, along with the car's registration and matching photo ID).
This key now sits in a box inside of the dashboard, with a coil of wire wrapped around it to act as an antenna, and with the metal shaft of the key (the business end) cut off and discarded. A relay, controlled by the remote start box, switches between the new (additional) coil and the one which is at the ignition switch. This allows the remote starter to satisfy the car's electronic controls -- each key has a unique, RFID-esque element in it, and the car will only run if the correct key is in the ignition.
There are replacement chips for the car's ECM available which can remove this functionality (called EWS), but you've got to get under the hood to do it and the chips themselves are model-specific.
But even then, there's the trick lock cylinder on the ignition switch which freewheels if the tumblers don't get set right, so it resists conventional lock picking and screwdriver attacks very well. Plus the usual gamut of mechanical and electrical interlocks, like: Can't shift from park without key switched on. Can't shift from park without brake pedal depressed. Can't turn steering wheel with key switched off. And so on. Some of these are more interdependent than usual: You can't activate brake pedal shift interlock without having car switched on, because (somewhat atypically) the brake lights don't work without the ignition switch turned on. And on top of all that, it is also possible to set up the car so that it is necessary to enter a code number into the computer in the dashboard before the car will run, such that even physical possession of a valid key won't necessarily enable stealing a BMW without additional (nontrivial) work.
Yadda, yadda, yadda. You're getting the point. Merely having access to the inside of a 13-year-old BMW does not mean that it's suddenly easy to steal; I can't imagine what tricks they'd come up with for a fabric car if it were ever to hit production.
Kid-proof tablet..