Slashdot Mirror


Analyzing Apple's iPhone Strategy

Galen Gruman submitted infoworld's summary of Apple's grand strategy for the iPhone. He points out that the real important part of the new iPhone is the software, not the hardware. He talks about the new SDK stuff, the ad-hoc app distribution, and other stuff. It's a reasonable read if you have been ignoring the iPhone and want to know what the hype is about over this release, but doesn't break any new ground if you've been paying attention.

270 comments

  1. it's the apps, stupid! by AceJohnny · · Score: 5, Interesting

    He points out that the real important part of the new iPhone is the software not the hardware. Well sure, now that the smartphone hardware is becoming powerful enough that you don't have to constrain your app to the capacities of that hardware, people are starting to realize that the hardware is actually inconsequential.

    But this shift has only happened recently, and we needed something like the iPhone to show us that the hardware is actually darn good enough!

    This is also why I'm so fascinated by Android, which is a powerful software platform (ok, for a given set of hardware). ...and I say this as an embedded software developer :p
    --
    Misleading titles? Inflammatory blurbs? Keep in mind that Slashdot is a tabloid.
    1. Re:it's the apps, stupid! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      >Free Playstation 3, Nintendo Wii and Microsoft XBox 360 Are you fucking kidding me? Someone ban this shit NOW!
    2. Re:it's the apps, stupid! by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      With the Android, I wonder how the integration will be (which is Apple's strength).

      I looked at HTC Touch Pro... but saw the windows start button (no thanks).

    3. Re:it's the apps, stupid! by Admiral+Ag · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's a weird thing to say from my point of view. The iPod has done well because the hardware and software were tightly integrated (both on the device and with iTunes), whereas the players that went for a common platform like PlaysforSure did not.

      Google is much stronger than Apple with web services, but weaker with respect to hardware. I don't think hardware is inconsequential. The more diverse the hardware your system is on, the more likely there may be compatibility problems.

      Maybe it will be different this time. Mac shareware developers must be salivating. The quality of Mac shareware is excellent for the most part (and some of it is much more polished, better designed and more mac-like than software from major companies), but crippled by the fact that it's shareware and people have to find it and buy a license off a website, if they buy it at all. I imagine that respected Mac shareware developers like Panic will thrive when their software is on the same store as the stuff from the big guys and is pay per download.

      --
      "by that I mean people who don't sit on slashdot all day wondering why everyone else isn't building robots" DECS
    4. Re:it's the apps, stupid! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For sure. Where's the pooping story?

    5. Re:it's the apps, stupid! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Thant's kind of shortsighted. Windows Mobile is not bad. It works far better as an embedded OS that Windows does as a Desktop OS. There are also thousands of applications out here for it.

    6. Re:it's the apps, stupid! by anomaly256 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The hardware has been capable for quite some time. It's just windows CE is so crap at what it does that everyone blamed the hardware for being underpowered. Point in case, the hx4700 ipaq has been available for several years, clocks at 627mhz and has the same ram as the iphone. Even an apparently decent 2d+mpeg accelerated gpu, yet totally fails at media playback for anything encoded at a quality resolution. That is, until you reflash it with a real operating system. I'm glad apple's set the bar higher though, maybe Microsoft's CE department will wake up and realize people want _real_ features right _now_ instead of slowly bleeding out miniscule advancements that are intentionally crippled. Although having said that, CE's poor performance has until now been the driving force in making the hardware better, so it's only fair to give them credit for that at least.

    7. Re:it's the apps, stupid! by c_forq · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It works far better as an embedded OS that Windows does as a Desktop OS

      Seriously? I mean, have you used a Windows Mobile device? I have one I use every day, and I have had to reboot it about as often as Windows 95. One of the (many) reasons I will be picking up an iPhone this July.

      --
      Computers allow humans to make mistakes at the fastest speeds known, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns
  2. Objective C by thammoud · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The language is a serious turn off for most developers I know.

    1. Re:Objective C by crmarvin42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why?

      I'll admit I'm not a programer and I have a tendency toward reading pro-apple sites, but I was under the impression that objective C is just an extension of C, and that regular C code would compile and run fine without extensive modification.

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    2. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      It's a great language actually ... dynamically typed, garbage collected. It's not vary Java-like, so some will surely hate it. But it's powerful and elegant in its own way.

    3. Re:Objective C by thermian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      objective C is unfortunately a career no go for most developers.

      To get and keep jobs in almost all companies you need to know a current mainstream language or two. I haven't seen a job that listed objective-c as a requirement in, um, well ever.

      I certainly wouldn't touch it.

      --
      A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
    4. Re:Objective C by rockmuelle · · Score: 1

      Most good developers are can pick up a new language fairly quickly, so it shouldn't be a hurdle.

      Objective C is a little strange at first, since it mixes "real" (i.e., Smalltalk-esqe, message-based) object oriented programming concepts into a statically typed language. But, once you separate the C and the Objective C mentally, it's kinda like programing Python and writing the occasional C extension.

      Cocoa Touch has a large set of support libraries that cover most tasks. Once you understand the basic patterns they use, it's pretty easy to pick up a new library and run with it. That said, the basic data structures take a little getting used to since it takes a little longer to develop a good mental model of how they work under the hood (whereas C++ Standard Library components are easier for C programmers to grok).

      Anyway, don't let the language stop you. If nothing else, you might expand your knowledge of what is possible with programming languages.

      -Chris

    5. Re:Objective C by Palshife · · Score: 1

      You must not know a whole lot of Cocoa developers.

      --
      Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
    6. Re:Objective C by furball · · Score: 0

      If you see learning a new language as an issue, please just don't ever call yourself a developer. Just stop. Right now.

    7. Re:Objective C by jo42 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why? Because it's not Java?
    8. Re:Objective C by Moebius+Loop · · Score: 1

      Can you elaborate on this?

      In the first place, if you agree with the sentiment about the attractiveness of the iPhone as a deployment platform, the language it's written in should be irrelevant.

      Furthermore, since I'm not a huge fan of the C++ way of doing things, Objective C provides all the OOP features I require within a syntax that really isn't *that* far from C, and reminds me of other nice languages like Smalltalk and Lisp.

      Developers could be intimidated by the Cocoa API, though. It's a pretty different way of doing GUI development, particularly if you're used to the verbosity of Swing, or the vapidity of VB. Still, the end result of learning to develop for the iPhone is access to a built-in audience of potential users, and (if you're so inclined) an easy transition to Mac OS X development.

      Anyways, my 2/100ths...

      --
      have you been seen on slash?
    9. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not garbage collected on the iPhone though.

    10. Re:Objective C by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I have no doubt most good programmers can pick up a new language pretty fast and even become quite productive. But it is the hiring manager you have to get through. Most HR bean counters go by grep $keyword resume.txt .

      So many programmers feel it is better to stick with what they are asking for in the ads.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    11. Re:Objective C by Goaway · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Because you are only capable of knowing a set number of languages?

    12. Re:Objective C by crmarvin42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But I thought the whole idea was that full powered, desktop level, apps on a mobile device.

      I'm not trying to slander Java, but I've never used a Java app that doesn't take up a disproportionate amount of processor and memory when compared to the same type of program written in some flavor of C.

      I want to reiterate that I'm not a programer and I'm not trying to be contrary. I'm just a little confused is all.

      --
      Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
    13. Re:Objective C by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The language is a serious turn off for most developers I know.

      Really? The only developers I can think of that it would be a problem for are those guys who learned Java or VB at their trade school and have never learned anything else. Pretty much everyone else has picked up C at some point and Objective C is just a superset.

      I'd also note that from what I've read developers are raving about the ease of use of the iPhone dev kit. From the development forums I see a lot of happy people, with the occasional clueless person asking if they can develop for the iPhone using Visual Basic 6. I've seen some complaints about the slow rate at which people are letting developers into the program, but not about objective C.

    14. Re:Objective C by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you know C and any OO language then obj-C should be easy for a real developer to pick up. Keep in mind that C runs just fine on the iphone (at least on the simulator) you just won't have access to any of the Cocoa frameworks and thus no UI.

    15. Re:Objective C by EggyToast · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'd imagine that any company that decides to push into OS X (iPhone or desktop) coding will have a demand for Obj-C coding. Kind of a no-brainer, really.

    16. Re:Objective C by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because today's programmers don't learn programming or engineering, but instead a language. A real programmer should be able to program regardless of a language. In fact they should be able to pick a language based on the problem at hand and not the other way around.

    17. Re:Objective C by NtroP · · Score: 4, Interesting

      [Objective-C] The language is a serious turn off for most developers I know.

      It takes getting used to, but I find it very elegant and powerful. I think the biggest turn off for most is "it's something new". It's C, but then it's not. I find myself having to think much more "MVC" and "object-oriented" than I'm used to (my brain is wired old-school procedural), but I also find that I can get an amazing amount done with fewer lines of code. The trade-off is that I don't feel I have the deep level of control I should. This is nonsense, of course, I can write any functionality and subclass all I want, but with the API's I usually don't find I need to, so I come away from a project feeling a little guilty - like I didn't *really* do any hard-core coding. Combine that with Interface-builder and it feels more like building with Legos than "programming". It's just that you find yourself getting so much functionality for free.

      All that, combined with the fact that the syntax is different from C++ and you get a bit of a turn-off, but give it a chance. It's like transitioning to any new thing. You like what you know. It takes stepping out of your comfort zone for a while (which is hard for a lot of programmers who tend to be control freaks to begin with). Once you are used to it though you find going back a bit clumsy. At least that's been my experience.

      --
      "terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
    18. Re:Objective C by bsDaemon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Obj-C is often considered what C++ would have been, if C++ were done right. However, for a right while only NeXT really used it. GNUStep, which was trying to copy NeXT Step, started supporting it as well.

      When Jobs came back to Apple (he also formed NeXT), Apple acquired NeXT and all their technology. This is when OS X was born and why it uses Obj-C.

      So, basically only MacOS X and GNUStep really use Obj-C in any significant way (at least that I'm aware of).

      The syntax is a little weird, and the targeted platforms are somewhat limited, so not many people know it or bother to learn (unless they want to develop for Mac or GNUStep).

      Its a turn off because people like familiar things and would rather use C++ or Java rather than Obj-C, I suppose -- and Obj-C is sort of the barrier to entry to Cocoa and Carbon.

    19. Re:Objective C by mmurphy000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you see learning a new language as an issue, please just don't ever call yourself a developer.

      Define "issue".

      Is the choice of Objective-C a part of the reason why I'm not planning on doing iPhone development any time soon? Yes. Because it's a dead end.

      While you can use Objective-C to build Mac applications, you don't need to — there are other languages that run on the Mac that are also commonly available on other platforms. And, outside of OS X and iPhone, there are no platforms I can think of where Objective-C is the "right answer", or even a "likely candidate". It's more like "you're using...what?" or "didn't that language die out a decade ago?"

      Now, I'm not above learning a language solely to use a platform — I'm learning Python to play with Google AppEngine, for example. But Python has greater potential utility to me beyond AppEngine, more so than Objective-C does beyond iPhone, and so Python is less of an issue.

      If the issue were solely language — say, for example, iPhone was likely to be as open as Android is likely to be — I'd probably overcome it. But, combine the language issue with the other issues, and iPhone just isn't compelling at present. Maybe that will change.

    20. Re:Objective C by Firehed · · Score: 1

      Well are you looking at jobs for Windows software development? That could be why...

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    21. Re:Objective C by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What a ludicrous reason.

    22. Re:Objective C by m.ducharme · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh come on, how many HR bean-counters know how to use grep?

      --
      Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
    23. Re:Objective C by Seakip18 · · Score: 1

      What the heck are you talking about?

      With the Intarwebz, learning a new language no longer relies on getting an expert to teach it. The only programmer that refuses to use the best language for the job is pretty dumb given the resources at their disposal. Luckily, almost all of the programmers I've worked with/met that are around my age have been forced to take higher maths.

      The only stumbling block I can see is the tools or basic libraries for the language itself *coughmicrosoftcough* being held at a premium.

      Anyways, I fully agree that a programmer is not one who plays word tetris, but can see the objectives and envision how the code will come together and fulfill that objective in terms of functions, objects and a keen mind on how it will all fit.

      --
      import system.cool.Sig;
    24. Re:Objective C by Linux+Ate+My+Dog! · · Score: 1

      If Objective-C is a problem, you should not be in mobile development.

      Because the limits of J2ME will make you tear your hair out, the installed base of WinMo will make you tear your wallet off, and Symbian C++ will just simply make you tear your brains out.

      In the mobile world, Objective C looks good. Yeah, the mobile world is that sucky.

    25. Re:Objective C by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

      MIDP Java is generally pretty small and fast, it's what's used on basically all smartphone platforms other than the iPhone and Windows Mobile (ok there's Symbian native, but I don't think most new development is going that direction due to the portability of Java).

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    26. Re:Objective C by ImdatS · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You know, I started developing in Objective-C back in 1990/91 on NeXTstep (yes, it was lc 'step' at that time...) - Coming from Pascal, C, Forth (and some Basic dialects), I found it a bit weird at the beginning (the first 4-6 months). Then, one day, it made "click" - as we say in German. And from that day on, I couldn't really imagine doing it in a different way than MVC & Objective-C.

      In order to fully grasp it, I started experiments with Smalltalk (great), Eiffel (great, but ugly syntax), and some other languages I forgot.

      Remember: those times were the times when we wrote our frameworks ourselves (I remember writing objects like "Float", "Integer", "String", ... - they didn't exist in NeXTstep those days).

      You have to switch from "Calling a Function" or "Calling a Member of an Object" to "Sending a Message to an Object" and get used to the idea that everything is an Object (even classes are instances of the class class and so on) and then you are set.

      The syntax may turn you off a bit - that's what happens with Python for me (the indentation is still a psychological issue for me) - but you surely get used to it quickly.

      Now, after having developed in Objective-C for such a long time (including having learned Smalltalk and Eiffel), I can't actually look at the "ugly" C++ or Java syntax - and I (more or less) believe the worst thing that could happen to the world in programming languages was C++ (my two EUR 0.01, which, by the way, results in 3.14 UScents by a strange coincidence today).

      Anyway, try it out and you'll either hate it or love it.

      Also, for me, a good programmer is someone who is personally, privately, and passionately interested in Esoteric Programming Languages - which brings us to the "Indifference to Syntax" - or "Being amazed by Syntax" (some people should probably take this with a grain of salt).

    27. Re:Objective C by Lally+Singh · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not trying to slander Java, but I've never used a Java app that doesn't take up a disproportionate amount of processor and memory when compared to the same type of program written in some flavor of C.


      And many have said that about C vs Assembler. The difference is that you'd have to add a zero or so to the end of the price of the app. Java's substantially easier to write apps for, in certain domains, in certain sizes of applications.

      C doesn't have features which make it reasonable to write very large applications (namespaces come to mind). You can do it (e.g. Unix kernels, etc), but you have to be much more disciplined without those features. That discipline costs in terms of additional expertise required, (higher programmer salaries) and project management (more overhead for managers, documentation, etc).

      Also, Java has features which make writing tools for it substantially easier than C. Better available tools also reduce the cost of software production.

      For the most part, Java sacrifices starting performance for long-term performance. Letting a Java app 'warm up' for a while will show substantially better performance than when it first started running.
      --
      Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    28. Re:Objective C by mrslacker · · Score: 1

      They don't; they insist upon Word format (sic), even if it's for a Linux position. Allegedly recruitment databases only understand such formats.

    29. Re:Objective C by Comatose51 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not just the language that matters. Yes any decent programmers can pick up a language in no time but the real issue is the libraries and frameworks and patterns that often go with a language and its environment. Re-learning the APIs for the environment takes time. Good documentation helps a lot and so does being open source (or use the Lutz reflector if you're doing .Net). Even then there are still certain conventions for different environments. Python programmers talk about code being "Pythonic". While there are many ways to do something in Python, there is usually a few good ways or patterns for a problem. So, it's not just the language but everything else that goes around the language that also matters.

      --
      EvilCON - Made Famous by /.
    30. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's not java, but it still has all the disadvantages of a java-type language (I haven't used obj-c in a few years, but as I recall it syntactically resembled c++ with some smalltalk quirks; it kind of seemed like a step backwards from java actually, with function declarations in a separate file than the actual definitions and manual memory management). So you're not really gaining anything by switching languages, you're just losing in having to acquaint yourself with a language with substantially different syntax and quirks.

    31. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then most developers don't see the HUGE potential for their users. People are walking around with mini-computers in their pockets, asking for useful, monetizable creations to use. It's like a reverse field of dreams - the people are already there, you just have to build it! A video, to my point: http://youtube.com/watch?v=irXCMdRprfw

      This argument seems like a copout in some ways, and a missed opportunity in others. I just don't get it.

    32. Re:Objective C by e4g4 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Amen brother. Programming languages are, in this way, a lot like spoken and written languages - once you've learned a few, picking up a new one becomes much easier. After thoroughly learning C++ and Java, Perl, Ruby, PHP, Python, Lisp, Objective-C and JavaScript took me almost no time at all to pick up - just a month or two of casual tinkering before I became proficient.

      Programming languages are ultimately just expressions of logic, with different strengths for different applications. I once read that children who learn more than one language when they are young have a fundamentally different structure for the language center of their brains than those of us who learn only one, and a significantly greater facility for learning languages, because they essentially have a better data structure for storing and processing language. I think the same thing can be achieved with programming languages, one simply has to go out of one's way to *learn more than one*. I try to learn a new language every year or two, simply because it's good exercise for the brain.

      --
      The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. - Albert Einstein
    33. Re:Objective C by slawo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The syntax is a little weird Depends on your point of view

      and the targeted platforms are somewhat limited Just so you stop your bullshit : Generic Objective-C programs [...] can also be compiled for any system supported by gcc, which includes an Objective-C compiler.

      Its a turn off because ... ... because you are simply ignorant and lazy.
      Sorry for the harshness, but it is well deserved when you see this type of FUD propagated by pretending "BSD guys"
      --
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions...
    34. Re:Objective C by Snocone · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen a job that listed objective-c as a requirement in, um, well ever.

      That's funny ... every single job I've looked at in the last two years had it as a requirement.

      On the other hand, not a single job I've looked at listed Java, C#, or .NET as a requirement.

      By your logic, then, those three technologies I list are a "career no go".

      Either that, or you have your head up your ass so far you can't figure out that a particular tool set is required for jobs it is appropriate for, and not for ones it isn't appropriate for. I think I'll take "thermain is an ntiwit" for $200 here, Alex!

    35. Re:Objective C by slawo · · Score: 2, Funny

      Because you are only capable of knowing a set number of languages? Yes he uses the d20 system... When you are a level 3 programmer, you have little squares in your head so you can learn only 3 level 1 languages and 1 level 2 Language.
      --
      The road to hell is paved with good intentions...
    36. Re:Objective C by Space+cowboy · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hmm - I have to assume you've not used ObjC much or at all - you have to take it with its class library (Cocoa), similar to Java, but it's ridiculously easy to use once you've spent a week or so learning it. Literally, it took me a week to be proficient in this "new" language.

      Applications don't need namespaces - frameworks do, but applications should be perfectly happy being run in their own (default) namespace. I think most people will be writing applications on the iPhone, not frameworks.

      As for tools, XCode comes with data-modelling tools to create entity relationship diagrams/models that integrate with your code, it comes with fantastic dtrace-driven graphical performance monitoring tools, and an excellent integrated gdb-based debugger which does things like fix-and-continue, step back, etc.

      Just putting some context into place,

      Simon

      --
      Physicists get Hadrons!
    37. Re:Objective C by bsDaemon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, you can write generic programs in Obj-C. What are you doing to do with it without the library framework, though?

      If you want to actually **DO** anything with it, then you need GNUStep or Cocoa. Sort of like, you can write C programs on any system with libc and the header files available, but without all the fancy extras, like gtk or whatever, you're severely limited in what you can do without having to start from scratch.

      I don't program in Obj-C. I don't use Mac. I don't want to do either of those things. Its not FUD as much as an explanation.

      If you want to program Mac apps, you pretty much have to use it (or java) from what I can tell. If you want to use it without GNUStep or Cocoa, then you need bindings for your toolkits, same as anything else.

      Just because you *CAN* do something, doesn't mean people really do. Yes, there are Obj-C bindings for GTK. I don't know how many people use them, but I would venture to guess its not that many. GNUStep software is written in Obj-C, same as Cocoa-using OS X software is.

      That is the point I am trying to make. And I don't "prentend" to use bsd.

      dick.

    38. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most good programmers know how to get past hiring managers, too. :)

    39. Re:Objective C by SeekerDarksteel · · Score: 1

      Not to detract from your point, but going for breadth instead of depth of programming languages does have its own drawbacks.

      vector<int> foo(10000);
      //assign values to foo
      vector<vector<int> > bar(2);
      bar[0] = foo;

      To someone without extensive experience with C++, they might write something like this.  And it would work exactly as intended.  But because they didn't understand or didn't think about how things worked under the hood, they're paying overhead they shouldn't have had to pay.

      --
      The laws of probability forbid it!
    40. Re:Objective C by slapout · · Score: 1

      You do realize that by the iPhone using Objective-C, Objective-C may branch out into other areas.

      --
      Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    41. Re:Objective C by thermian · · Score: 1

      Because you are only capable of knowing a set number of languages?

      Not really, I know many languages, some of which I doubt I'll ever use again, but I could. Plus there's the fact that once you know the basics you can pick up any language.

      As a rule however you need to be especially proficient in at least one to get a decent job, and it usually takes a lot of time concentrating on that one language to get really good at it.

      As it happens I do know how to code in objective C, but have no need for it personally, nor, as I said, have I seen any jobs that require it.

      --
      A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
    42. Re:Objective C by QuantumFlux · · Score: 1

      Obviously, with the earning potential of iPhone software, more and more developers will discover ObjC either because they either they're curious, or because their bosses will say, "hey, port our XYZ app to iPhone."

      Objective-C is one of those languages that looks obscure until you start playing with it, and then you realize it's just C with a very nice object-oriented messaging toolkit bolted on.

    43. Re:Objective C by QuantumFlux · · Score: 4, Informative

      You don't necessarily need Mac OS X or GNUstep to use Obj-C in any significant way.

      Debian Etch (and many other distros) has both the gcc-objc compiler and libFoundation libraries in the stable repository. I use them all the time to write GUI-less server applications. The Foundation library (the non-GUI toolkit for Objective C) makes it trivially easy (much like Java) to write a little piece of multi-threaded code that sits around waiting for input on a socket - WITHOUT all the overhead of launching yet another JVM instance.

    44. Re:Objective C by naasking · · Score: 1

      Better than C++.

    45. Re:Objective C by naasking · · Score: 1

      I find it amusing that you consider a language used on an increasingly more popular desktop platform, and on the most popular mobile device of the past year, effectively "dead". What could possibly be a more relevant criteria for liveness?

    46. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? Do they really love pointers and dereferencing that much?

    47. Re:Objective C by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      I find it amusing that you consider a language used on an increasingly more popular desktop platform, and on the most popular mobile device of the past year, effectively "dead". What could possibly be a more relevant criteria for liveness?


      This "popular" desktop platform still has a tiny marketshare compared to a certain unnamed monopolist. And this mobile device is new and was closed to 3rd-party apps.

      I suspect Obj C will become more popular now, but there really wasn't much reason to use it before, compared to other languages that are far more widely used.
      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    48. Re:Objective C by anomaly256 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Provided you're willing to install things from outside of Apple's AppStore Applet (I think i just broke my p key), Cydia and AppTapp Installer both have Python bindings for the iphone's Objective-C UIKit Framework and others. Not to mention Java wrappers for those frameworks too. And Ruby wrappers. Really, you're only limited to Objective-C if you _let_ yourself be limited to it.

    49. Re:Objective C by naasking · · Score: 1

      The only reason to use a language is to benefit from its features. This whole 'marketshare' obsession is simply nonsense.

    50. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The syntax is a little weird, and the targeted platforms are somewhat limited, so not many people know it or bother to learn (unless they want to develop for Mac or GNUStep). Actually, for me the syntax makes sense. Before I learned anything about Obj-C, I've used Fortran, C, C++ and a bit of Java. When I looked at an Obj-C code the first time, I went "WTF?" However, I gave it a shot and the main thing was accepting it without complaining that it wasn't like C++. That sped things up.

      After learning the very basic stuff of Obj-C (@interface, @implementation) and learning that objects pass "messages" to each other with a syntax [object method] or [object methodWithVariable:var1 andAnotherVariable:var2 andYetAnotherVariable:var2], I was ready to go. It beats object.method(var1, var2) syntax IMHO. Other ideas like protocols, delegates make sense once you see an example and others like inheritance is similar to C++. InterfaceBuilder was a piece of cake. In short, I was quickly having fun writing stupid little apps. I hadn't had as much fun writing apps with any other languages. The only complaint I have is the abundance of classes and their methods. I can't remember all of them (I don't make a living as a developer), so I am forced to look them up on the web-based reference now and then. It slows me down a bit.

      So, the first step is to take a plunge, and don't always compare it to the language you've used to then complain they are not the same. They are not. If someone who does it for fun can do it, shouldn't professional developers who make a living understanding and writing codes be able to do it more easily? If you are afraid or not intrigued of new things, I am surprised you can last long as a developer because being a developer means you've got to learn to adapt.
    51. Re:Objective C by enjahova · · Score: 1

      There are some projects like PyObjc which is natively supported in OS X and apparently ported to the iPhone:
      http://www.saurik.com/id/5

      It still takes some mucking around the Objective-C API's, but I was able to cobble together a python app for OS X (using the sexy Interface Builder) in a couple weekends.

      I agree with the parent's sentiment, but I know where you are coming from. If learning the API and dev environment are too cumbersome for the scope of your project, it may not be worth it. However, I found that Apple's APIs are very well documented and it has been one of my most pleasant application development experiences to date.

      --
      "how can they call it a MINE if everything here is THEIRS?!?!" -Straight Jacket
    52. Re:Objective C by nguy · · Score: 1

      Obj-C is often considered what C++ would have been, if C++ were done right.

      Objective C may be better than C++ for GUI programming, but that really doesn't matter anymore (since there are better tools than either of them). For those areas where it still matters (systems programming, scientific software), C++ is the better language.

    53. Re:Objective C by nguy · · Score: 1

      Know matter how well you learn Objective C, it still is an unsafe language, it still allows buffer overflows, and it still doesn't provide bullet proof error handling.

    54. Re:Objective C by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Also, for me, a good programmer is someone who is personally, privately, and passionately interested in Esoteric Programming Languages - which brings us to the "Indifference to Syntax" - or "Being amazed by Syntax


      I'm with you! I had a programming language class in my graduate studies where we ended up learning Erlang, LUA, and 2 others languages that are no longer used (I can't remember their names atm). In fact the only way to get a compiler for them was to install a 1.x version of linux in a VM and use a precompiled compiler. I learned a lot about every language and other general programming problems by learning those other languages.
    55. Re:Objective C by molarmass192 · · Score: 1

      It's a bit like C++ and SmallTalk, but you can use dot notation and the manual memory management is a thing of the past now that it uses garbage collection. The beauty of ObjC, Cocoa in particular, over Java is not so much the language but the things that are done automatically for you, the GUI toolkit integration, and the richness of the libraries. Coding GUIs in Cocoa is practically done for you, things just work. Coding GUIs in Java, well, let's just say it could be much much better and consistent. The Mac platforms were always UI centric, thus Cocoa makes a better choice than Java. That said, I love Java for server side programming, it really offers an unbeatable proposition there.

      --

      Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
    56. Re:Objective C by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Is the choice of Objective-C a part of the reason why I'm not planning on doing iPhone development any time soon? Yes. Because it's a dead end.


      Dead end? The most popular computing device in the world is the cell phone. The current most talked (as in nearly everyone has heard about and wants one) about cell phone is the iPhone. Even if the iPhone ends up not being the most popular 'smart' phone in the world when everything is said and done, it will be one of the major players. Learning to program for it will in no way be a 'dead end'. Add to the fact that learning obj-c will give you a leg up for OS X programming (mac market share while small, is growing) and it's a win-win for you in the future.
    57. Re:Objective C by menace3society · · Score: 4, Informative

      Okay, ready to learn Objective-C? Class names normally begin with capital letters and instances of classes begin with lowercase, just like Java.
      You call a procedure from an object with the syntax [object function:argument], similar to lisp. If there are multiple arguments, it looks like [object function:argument arg2Name:argument2 arg3Name:argument3].
      You declare classes as follows:

      @interface :
      {
                float aFloat;
                NSString *string;
      }
      - (NSString * ) string;
      - (void) setString:(NSString *)newString;
      - (NSString *) theFloat;
      - (void) setFloat:(float)value;
      + (NSArray *) someArray;
      @end /* of @interface */

      Obj-C objects are always pointers. Methods (functions) that begin with a '-' are instance methods; they would be called by an instance of the object (i.e. [instance method]. Those beginning with a '+' are class methods; they are called with [Class method].
      Use #import instead of #include. #import always checks to make sure it doesn't include a file twice, so you don't need to bother with #ifndef's.
      Here's an implementation file
      @implementation
      { /* private variables go here */
      }

      - (id) init
      {
                if (self=[super init])
                {
                            string = [[NSString alloc] initWithString:@"This is a string.";
                }
      returm self;
      }

      - (void) setString:(NSString *)newString
      {
                string=newString;
      }

      - (void) setFloat:(float)value
      {
                aFloat=value;
      }

      - (NSString *) string
      {
                return string;
      }

      - (float) theFloat
      {
                return aFloat;
      }

      + (NSArray *) someArray
      {
                return [[NSArray alloc] initWithObjects:
      }

      You can see that, as in Java, variables are in-scope within member functions.
      The method alloc is implemented in the ObjC base class, NSObject, and allocates memory for the instance. It will always be followed up with an init method of some kind.
      The keyword 'id' is a macro for any instance of NSObject or any of its subclasses.
      The variable 'self' refers to the current object. The variable 'super' refers to the current object, interpreted as it it were its parent class. Since every object but NSObject begins with self=[super init], only NSObject needs to know precisely how the Objective-C runtime is implemented.
      Not shown here is how flags are handled, which is usually of the form [object shouldDoSomething], which then returns YES or NO. To set behavior, it's [object shouldDoSomething:YES].
      In Objective-C, NSStrings are denoted like C strings, but with an @ before the open quote marks: @"This is an NSString." [object description] will return an NSString that tells you something about object, usually for classes within the core frameworks it is a text representation of the data.
      The null pointer as an object is called nil. nil, or indeed any object, will accept any method call and fail silently, so make sure you properly alloc and init your objects, and double-check that they actually respond to the methods you send them.
      Write to the console with NSLog(NSString*).
      There. Now you know Objective-C. How the fuck hard was that?
      NB: I wrote this off the top of my head, and it's been a while, so there are probably a ton of bugs in it. But, you get the idea.

    58. Re:Objective C by Lally+Singh · · Score: 1

      Sure I have (look at the articles I wrote on CocoaDevCentral :-)), but I was talking about C.

      Frankly, ObjC doesn't help too much in the big-program-area. It has objects, but Categories are a disgusting break of encapsulation.

      --
      Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    59. Re:Objective C by hobbit · · Score: 1

      since there are better tools than either of them You give the impression of never having used Cocoa. At least give some examples of what you consider to be better!

      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
    60. Re:Objective C by nguy · · Score: 0, Troll

      You give the impression of never having used Cocoa.

      And you give the impression of not being particularly smart, since you confuse a programming language (Objective-C) with an API (Cocoa).

      At least give some examples of what you consider to be better!

      Just about any language that isn't intrinsically unsafe, regardless of which API you use with it, even Cocoa.

    61. Re:Objective C by hobbit · · Score: 1

      As it happens I do know how to code in objective C, but have no need for it personally, nor, as I said, have I seen any jobs that require it. In that case, perhaps there are no jobs that require it! In fact, have you checked you didn't dream the whole language?

      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
    62. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently English is still an unsafe language for you ;)

      And tell me, what bullet proof error handling are you looking for that isn't provided in Objective-C?

    63. Re:Objective C by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Objective c has nothing to do with Carbon.

    64. Re:Objective C by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      Yes, I realized that after I posted and it was too late.

    65. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think nobody stop you using ObjC the C way. There are many C libraries you can use, without any OpenStep framework. eg. if you want to write a small window manager, you just need Xlib. Why link something you don't really need?

    66. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And tell me, what bullet proof error handling are you looking for that isn't provided in Objective-C?

      The kind that reliably catches C pointer errors, for example.

    67. Re:Objective C by santiago · · Score: 1

      On the Mac at least, they wouldn't rather use Java. Apple used to maintain a Java version of the Cocoa API but wound up deprecating it because so few people were using it.

    68. Re:Objective C by thermian · · Score: 1

      didn't say it was hard, but what exactly does objective C bring to the party that you can't get with C++ or C#?

      Those are pretty much industry standard now, objective C isn't. I'm not saying it isn't a decent language, just that its not common enough to make it worthwhile learning in detail.

      --
      A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
    69. Re:Objective C by hobbit · · Score: 1

      And you give the impression of not being particularly smart, since you confuse a programming language (Objective-C) with an API (Cocoa). I do no such thing. If you were at all familiar with Cocoa, you would know that such a framework could not be used with such a static language as C++.

      Just about any language that isn't intrinsically unsafe, regardless of which API you use with it, even Cocoa. For GUI programming, there is simply no better toolkit that Cocoa. You may prefer the Ruby or Python bindings, but I prefer Objective-C.

      But if you cared about safety, you wouldn't recommend C++ for anything, so I will have to conclude that you are merely trolling.
      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
    70. Re:Objective C by shmlco · · Score: 1

      "While you can use Objective-C to build Mac applications, you don't need to -- there are other languages that run on the Mac that are also commonly available on other platforms."

      Unfortunately, the primary development framework is Cocoa, and that's the API Apple is going to support going forward. There may be wrappers for some languages that support some aspects of the framework, but none are ever going to be as complete, or as current.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    71. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is the parent modded "4, Funny"?

      It's short but accurate, not sarcastic or satirical or any other humor-filled form...

    72. Re:Objective C by Logic+and+Reason · · Score: 1

      While you can use Objective-C to build Mac applications, you don't need to â" there are other languages that run on the Mac that are also commonly available on other platforms. Not if you want to be a first-class citizen on Mac OS X, there aren't. Java used to be a first-class language for writing Cocoa apps, but the Java-Cocoa bridge has been slowly crumbling for a while now. Objective-C is really the only game in town if you want to write native Mac apps (and Mac users will notice the difference).
    73. Re:Objective C by Space+cowboy · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, I retract the ObjC usage comment :)

      Categories... Well, that's one possible interpretation. Another is that they're a really elegant solution to the fragile base-class problem... you only have to look at things like NSString (AppkitAdditions) to see that.

      I have to think that applications like Aperture and Motion are "big programs", and they seem to work pretty darn well. Aperture 2.0 especially seems to be all Cocoa (no C/C++ back-end) and it simply flies on my machine.

      Simon

      --
      Physicists get Hadrons!
    74. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I know Objective-C is a turn off for most developers.

      And I don't mind at all because I'm making a $h!t load of money right now and the last thing I want is people figuring out why I'm eating their lunch.

    75. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      objective C is unfortunately a career no go for most developers.

      Oh... %-( It is like one "send-me-to-training" dude speaks to another "send-me-to-the-training" dude... :-)


      Hey. Who basically much cares about the language? Thanks God that He gave enough brain capacity to Steve Jobs to do not put Perl there... The rest is fine.

    76. Re:Objective C by hotfireball · · Score: 1

      The language is a serious turn off for most developers I know.

      Time to change your circle of friends? IMHO any language is mostly OK (well, Perl might be an exception though, but it is a serious mentality diagnosis, not just a cryptic language that readability of the source does not changes if you compress it with a GNU Zip)...

      What's wrong with Objective C anyway? Works for me...

    77. Re:Objective C by cthulhu11 · · Score: 0

      You've never met Brad Cox, have you? Or had to work with him?

    78. Re:Objective C by nguy · · Score: 1

      You keep trying to change the subject to distract from the simple, inescapable fact: Objective C is an unsafe programming language. And that makes it obsolete for GUI programming.

      And for the few niches where unsafe languages are still being used (systems programming, numerics, graphics), Objective C is unsuitable as well because it lacks other important facilities.

      Furthermore, Objective C compilers have been available for decades. Other languages have succeeded in that time. The fact that ObjC has seen no traction beyond Apple tells you that it simply isn't a good choice.

      Now stop bullshitting, stop being an Apple fanboy troll, and face the facts.

    79. Re:Objective C by Lally+Singh · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh God, Categories make the fragile base class worse. So much worse.

      Example: I add a method to NSString, and so does someone in a library I'm using. Or just another programmer on the team, and our dev process doesn't manage categories as the landmines they really are. Same name, different semantics.

      Pop Quiz: which version gets loaded into the executable?

      Answer: No way to tell! It depends on the linking order! And no matter what, someone's code is going to get the wrong semantics for this method!

      Examination: There is no way to catch this at compile time. It happens and you have to run it in the debugger to figure out which category actually runs.

      The fragile base class problem refers to C++'s binary layout dependencies for superclasses: if you change a base class in one binary, then you have to recompile every shared library, plugin, etc that it links to. Otherwise it will use the old layout, which will lead to terrible, incredibly-painful-to-debug things. Some code thinks you have a 24 byte object, and appends subclass's members at offset 24. Others think you have a 20 byte object, and append subclass's members at offset 20. Hilarity ensues.

      Obj-C's binary layout mechanism avoids this. But categories are just as bad as the original fragile base class problem. It only works if you track *exactly whom* adds what categories to what classes. It's a hack backdoor. But in too many places, it's been encouraged as a primary method of problem solving. What happens when two people want to implement NSTableDataSource differently on the same container? (If my understanding of which interface you impl is off, remember it's been 4-5 years since I really used cocoa).

      --
      Care about electronic freedom? Consider donating to the EFF!
    80. Re:Objective C by hobbit · · Score: 1


      You can state things as "inescapable facts" all you like, but it doesn't make them true. I asked you for examples of tools better than Objective-C for GUI programming, and you have given me none. However, you did give me an example of something you thought C++ was better for, which leads me to conclude that despite your claims, this debate is not about safety. Incidentally, Objective-C does much less name-mangling than C++, so it's considerably easier to use with existing C libraries, which makes it a better choice than C++ for plenty of processor-intensive stuff too (not to mention that scientific tools often have GUIs).

      You also seem to confuse success with merit. Coca-Cola is the most popular soft drink in the world, yet not the most nutritious. VHS was technically inferior to Betamax.

      I have coded extensively in both C++ and Objective-C, and I can tell you that Objective-C is better in every single area save integration with existing C++ code (and even that is as straightforward as integrating C and C++).

      It's always easy to spot someone who hasn't ever really used Objective-C: they think that C++ is better than it.

      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
    81. Re:Objective C by menace3society · · Score: 1

      Well, for one thing, it's possible to write a compiler to the Objective-C specification.

      In all seriousness, though, all your C code will compile under Objective-C. Not "all of it" in the C++ sense, but actually all of it. The only way it might cause problems is if you use 'id', 'YES', 'NO', or 'BOOL' differently from how the language uses them. I believe, but cannot be certain, that 'self' and 'super' are only in-scope in Objective-C class and method code.

      Objective-C has a fast, flexible runtime and very elegant libraries. It's possible to build fairly sophisticated applications without actually having to subclass any of the framework classes, and spending a bit of time in Interface Builder.

      The framework concept is also an advantage: instead of having hundreds of smaller libraries to worry about dependencies, each framework is like a library of libraries, and they usually contain several historical versions of the code. This means that first of all, you don't need something like autoconf to figure out whether or not the necessary components are installed, since the runtime will not only figure it out, but you can tell it to prefer a specific version too. Additionally, since much less code is public-facing, it's easier to make big changes to the code without having to worry about flag days.

      That said, there are really only two such sets of frameworks available, Apple's Cocoa and GNUStep. If you're certain that the necessary frameworks and run-time are available on your target platform, it's actually a great choice. If not, then it's probably not worth your while to bundle the frameworks and run-time along with your app. However, I think Safari and iTunes for Windows use ported versions of the Cocoa frameworks, so your potential install base may be larger than you think.

    82. Re:Objective C by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can state things as "inescapable facts" all you like, but it doesn't make them true.

      So, you are saying that Objective C is a safe language? You really are stupid.

      However, you did give me an example of something you thought C++ was better for, which leads me to conclude that despite your claims, this debate is not about safety

      In some applications, safety is less important than performance or system-level integration. But not in GUI programming.

      You also seem to confuse success with merit.

      I am not "confusing" it at all. Objective C is obsolete and inferior to other programming languages, and in addition it failed to catch on.

      I asked you for examples of tools better than Objective-C for GUI programming, and you have given me none.

      I've given you plenty: just about any language that is safe, which means almost any language not in the C family.

      It's always easy to spot someone who hasn't ever really used Objective-C: they think that C++ is better than it.

      I've been programming in Objective C on and off since Stepstone. The language was mildly superior to C++ 20 years ago, but that's about the best one can say about it. Today, it is obsolete for any application.

      But it's always easy to spot the Apple fanboy that's talking out of his ass. Like you.

    83. Re:Objective C by hobbit · · Score: 1

      So, you are saying that Objective C is a safe language? No, I am disagreeing with your whole statement, including its conjunction. You'd have thought that someone who purports to understand programming would get this.

      In some applications, safety is less important than performance or system-level integration. But not in GUI programming. Again, just because you state this, doesn't make it so.

      I am not "confusing" it at all. Objective C is obsolete and inferior to other programming languages Wrong on two counts, as evidenced by 2008's hottest new platform.

      I've given you plenty: just about any language that is safe, which means almost any language not in the C family. Hmm. Well, the safest class of languages out there are probably functional languages. But I really must disagree with you that Haskell is particularly suited to GUI programming.

      What's that? You didn't mean Haskell? Well SAY WHAT YOU MEAN THEN.

      I've been programming in Objective C on and off since Stepstone. The language was mildly superior to C++ 20 years ago, but that's about the best one can say about it. Today, it is obsolete for any application. By "on and off", you presumably mean you once followed a tutorial. Or perhaps you can elaborate on what you think makes C++ a better language? I didn't think so.
      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
    84. Re:Objective C by hobbit · · Score: 1

      Hey, coward -- I've replied to your post. See below.

      --
      "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
    85. Re:Objective C by PipsqueakOnAP133 · · Score: 1

      Note: I came from doing C and Java (not C++) before getting a job using Obj-C. And I have no C# experience.

      Here's what designing in Obj-C looks like compared to Java and C:
      1) Obj-C is not typesafe in the way java is. Instead, the compiler will try it's hardest to warn you if it looks inconsistent, kinda like C with tons of void*.

      Why this is good: This means that when you make a framework, you are expected to either
      1) declare a type of object you want to accept so others can import its header
      OR
      2) make code that is designed to detect if the object you're going to call methods on supports the method you're about to call because you just said you'll take anything that comes in.

      Why this is bad: It's as typesafe as C. Take this as a plus and a minus. People gung-ho about Java are all about type-safety, so this may scare them.

      2) Delegation. Because of the "id" type (like classtype java.lang.Object), you're expected to accept objects that need to be directly notified about what's going on in your object instead of subclassing whenever possible.
      Say I have a Table View UI widget. There are two delegates: one named "delegate" and one named "datasource".

      In the API it's declared that whenever it needs to know how many rows, it'll call numberOfRows against "datasource."
      It'll also call "tableView:objectValueForTableColumn:row:" against the datasource. These two are required in order for the table view to work. Datasource can be any object. There is no type, you simply plug it in and it works.

      At the same time, when people do stuff with the tableview, it'll check that the delegate can accept messages and send them. So if I need to know that a tablecolumn moved, I'll simply add a method tableViewColumnDidMove: to the delegate and the tableview will notify me. Less subclassing. More plugging stuff together.

      Note that it makes it easy to see that the delegate will handle most UI events, while the datasource mentioned strictly handles getting data to the tableview widget.

      Why this is good:
      The creator of the framework can setup the division between types of events in a way that makes sense.

      In addition, there is less subclassing, so that you're spending more time putting methods together that make your implementation special rather than making different subclasses of TableView that differ only in what section of the type heirarchy they can send to.

      Finally, this also cleans up your code a little more in that the alternative, which would have been explicitly registering with observers tends to happen less. Instead of making the method in your delegate and then doing add/remove Observer for each event you want to subscribe to. You simply set the delegate and write all the methods you care about.

      Why this is bad: Sometimes you can't tell why you're not receiving the events as a delegate, only to find out that you mispelled "tableView:didClickTableColumn:" as "tableView:didClickTableColunm:".

      3) Key-Value Coding
      It's a interesting concept in that it basically says there's a convention which you can write code in that the method
      setValue:forKey: will allow you to access your object's instance/state variables as if it were a dictionary/hashtable, where the key is a string.

      Why this is good:
      You can programmatically access an object's data without hardcoding in everything.
      In addition, it enables Key-Value Observation to build a system of bindings that minimizes the amount of code you need to set up connections for UI elements.

      Why this is bad:
      No reason I can see.

      There's more, but I'm tired and my writing ability is starting to go south :P

  3. Slow news day? by SimonGhent · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a reasonable read if you have been ignoring the iPhone and want to know what the hype is about over this release, but doesn't break any new ground if you've been paying attention.


    Well, in that case, why is it on the front page?

    Surely if a /. reader has been ignoring the iPhone up till now they're pretty unlikely to read past the thread title.
    --
    simon
    1. Re:Slow news day? by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Funny

      This is /. as you pointed out. If Steve Jobs takes a crap it makes the front page. Everything Apple makes the front page regardless of whether it's consequential or not.

      In short...you must be new here :-)

    2. Re:Slow news day? by Moofie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You certainly ARE new here if you think that /. has always been pro-Apple.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    3. Re:Slow news day? by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      Did I say always? Reading is fundamental :-)

    4. Re:Slow news day? by Firehed · · Score: 1

      If Steve Jobs takes a crap it makes the front page.


      Sorry, what? That's on Digg. Over here we wait until news comes in about his explosive diarrhea.
      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    5. Re:Slow news day? by nbvb · · Score: 1

      .... exactly. Makes me happy that "my" article submission was the one that launched the entire Apple section here at /.

      My, how times have changed.

    6. Re:Slow news day? by Obsi · · Score: 1

      Tomorrow, though, we'll always have been pro-IBM.

    7. Re:Slow news day? by Idbar · · Score: 1

      If Steve Jobs takes a crap it makes the front page.
      I didn't RTFA, thanks for your summary though.
    8. Re:Slow news day? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      I am a regular (at least daily) /. reader.
      I have not ignored the iPhone, it's a really cool device I think, and my two minutes playing with it were very interesting.
      Still I read the article and it had a lot to tell me, because I didn't follow iPhone that close.

  4. ATT Contract by rodrigoandrade · · Score: 2, Interesting

    OK, I RTFA'd but I've yet to understand where the AT&T exclusivity deal fits Apple's oh so grand strategy. Funny the suthor doesn't mention it either... afraid to lose an advertiser I suppose...

    1. Re:ATT Contract by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Informative

      If it is a deal breaker for you, you can buy an unlocked one from O2 and have it shipped to the US, but it will cost you a lot more. Even if you got one on the T-Mobile network, I would suspect that the network connectivity features won't work that well. I guess the only solution then is to move to Canada. :P

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    2. Re:ATT Contract by Darkness404 · · Score: 0, Troll

      AT&T pay Apple money to have the "must have phone". Apple gets the money and becomes richer. Apple uses that money to clean up more Open Source projects.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:ATT Contract by Andy_R · · Score: 1

      Where it fits seems pretty obvious to me, Apple used the carrot of exclusivity to operators in return for the operators breaking rank and doing a lot of things they didn't do before (unlimited data tariffs, out of sequence voicemail, and now the ability to 'push').

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    4. Re:ATT Contract by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 1

      Revenue sharing is no more with iPhone 3G.

    5. Re:ATT Contract by e03179 · · Score: 0

      Note that you won't get 3G speeds with T-Mobile in the US because T-Mobile uses the 1700 MHz band which the iPhone doesn't use. Unlock the iPhone and you probably won't get 3G speeds on other carriers.

      --
      -516
    6. Re:ATT Contract by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure if moving to Canada is the right solution. Up here, we're all waiting with Fear and Trepidation for Rogers (the Anointed Carrier) to announce the rates and plans....

    7. Re:ATT Contract by Builder · · Score: 1

      Uh, where is the mod option for "-1: Wrong"

      There will be no unlocked phones sold by O2 - all phones will be locked to them as is the case with the current first gen phone. Unlocking may or may not be possible, but this is not known yet as no-one has a phone to test on.

    8. Re:ATT Contract by Kickersny.com · · Score: 3, Informative

      T-Mobile in the US because T-Mobile uses the 1700 MHz band Wrong.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile#United_States

      https://support.t-mobile.com/knowbase/root/public/tm22037.htm

      T-Mobile's domestic roaming partners all operate on the GSM 1900 band.
    9. Re:ATT Contract by tenton · · Score: 1

      The 1900Mhz band isn't for 3g; if you followed the link to the T-Mobile USA's wiki entry, you would have seen the 3g plans.

  5. A first! A useful summary?!? by Kostya · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's a reasonable read if you have been ignoring the iPhone and want to know what the hype is about over this release, but doesn't break any new ground if you've been paying attention.


    Thanks. That was truly one of the first useful summaries I have read in a while. Now I can skip TFA ;-)
    --
    "Doubt your doubts and believe your beliefs." -- Switchfoot, Ode to Chin
  6. Parallels by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    Apple is now doing for smartphones what it did for DAPs. Really there are not doing anything new here in developing the whole ecosystem.

    1. Make a better UI. Some people don't like a new UI but for most people Apple's UI is better than other smartphones.
    2. Make it easy for users to get content. In this case the content is applications and not music or movies, but the idea is the same.
    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    1. Re:Parallels by ohmpossum · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Didn't the Newton come out before the Palm Pilot? The iPhone is a do-over of the Newton in a sense with modern technology. Apple has become expert in determining when Moore's Law catches up to an application to make it worth while. On the iPhone you could say they jumped the gun by releasing the first one without 3G and they should have waited another year. Or it was a warm up to get the 'impossible to see ahead of time' bugs out. Before lowering the price making it appealing to the general population. Either way, I think they know what they are doing. Another example, they did this with the ipod too. The very first version only worked with Mac.

      --
      Just set me up a basic sig... 10 PRINT "Gordon Aplin" : GOTO 10
    2. Re:Parallels by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Well I think of it as a catch-22. If they delayed releasing to add features, they would never release. At some point, they have to release a product with most of the features that they wanted. Then improve on that product and release another product. There's a fine line in deciding when to do so. Incidentally, Apple says that the limitation on 3G was the battery drain. If it's true, then it may have been an optimization problem that may have required time and/or new components to solve which were available last year.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  7. Strategy? by Monkey_Genius · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What strategy?

    1. Make glitzy 'must have' consumer gadget.
    2. Lock everyone into your distribution network.
    3. Profit.

    Business as usual.

    --
    I've got your sig, right here.
    1. Re:Strategy? by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 0

      you mean profit for a couple of years.   It will be interesting to see what the renewal rates are starting next summer as the first round of 2yr commits expire.  The iPhone for the vast majority of people buying it is about having the latest coolest toy.  When the reality sets in that they are paying upwards of $400/yr in data charges for a device they pretty much just use to make phone calls or play music sales will level off.  The iPhone is a great product for those that really need what it has to offer but most people will rarely use those features - this applies to all the smart phones, not just the iPhone. 

    2. Re:Strategy? by ajlitt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As an example, you could say the same exact thing about all of the people who are buying Blackberries because they're trendy. Most of these folks don't connect them to a corporate BIS. They're probably locked in to a contract and don't get use out of the expensive Blackberry data plans.

    3. Re:Strategy? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I guess you missed the part where nearly 85% of iPhone users regularly use the web from their phone.

    4. Re:Strategy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't remember the exact numbers that Jobs quoted in his Keynote, but the proportion of iPhone users who are also browsing the web is in the mid-90% range, and that most users are using 10 or more features.

    5. Re:Strategy? by porcupine8 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yeah, I've actually been surprised - every single person I've known with an iPhone, I've seen using its non-phone features. Getting directions via Google maps, using Twitter, using the calendar, whatever. Usually you do see people paying way too much and then only using the most basic features, but people seem to actually be using iPhone as more than a standard phone.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    6. Re:Strategy? by davecrist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The iPhone for the vast majority of people buying it is about having the latest coolest toy.
      I am sick and tired of reading/hearing this bullshit.

      The iPhone is my 6th cell phone and the first that is an honest pleasure to use and powerful enough to accomplish more than playing 10 second ring tones. The iPhone literally represents the FIRST TIME I have been able to have a good phone, my iPod, email, calendar, contacts, maps, camera, web, etc in a single device that seamlessly syncs to my Mac computer. Period.

      If you don't want to buy one, fine, but for me, having an iPhone is about having aall that stuff, and more, in a single device that elegantly works. The fact that it might look nice or 'cool' is merely icing.

      Usability and functionally are not 'playing with a cool toy.' Getting things/work done in an intuitive way on your phone is still getting things/work done. Whether or not it was 'cool' or even fun to do it shouldn't take away from the fact that it was accomplished.

      I am at a loss to understand why it is so hard for people to understand that futzing with poor UI is not fun for 99% of the people who use computers. The average user hates 'tinkering with their' tools (har!). They just want to USE them to Get Stuff Done. For you, perhaps menu-*-9-5-1-4-2 might be a fast way to access your pictures on your phone but for most people, myself included, it sucks way more than swipe-tap-tap-swipe.

    7. Re:Strategy? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wait a minute! Are you telling me that it has a phone too?

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    8. Re:Strategy? by afidel · · Score: 1

      That's because *shock* Apple has made the device easy and intuitive to use. I'm not an Apple fanboy (far from it, I dislike the Mac) but this is something they do well. It's the same reason the iPod took off so fast, it was head and shoulders above all the other digital music players when it came to ease of use. I prefer my Blackberry because I can do 30+wpm on the keyboard but for someone who's not generally composing long emails the iphone is great.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    9. Re:Strategy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is slashdot, you meant swipe-tap-tap-swipe-fap-fap-fap

    10. Re:Strategy? by syzler · · Score: 1

      When the reality sets in that they are paying upwards of $400/yr in data charges for a device they pretty much just use to make phone calls or play music sales will level off.

      You mean I can make calls on my iPhone. I thought it was just an Internet tablet like the Nokia n810, but with a slicker interface and network access through the cellular network.

      Sarcasm aside, I rarely use my iPhone as a phone. I use the e-mail, web, notes, calendar, address book, and SMS capabilities (in that order) far more than the phone capabilities. The fact that I can make phone calls is nice, but I probably only talk on it once or twice a week. On the other hand I used the other functions upwards of 20-40 times a day.

      Most of the people that I know that bought iPhones, use the iPhone as a replacement for their PDA, mobile phone, and iPod.
    11. Re:Strategy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For you, perhaps menu-*-9-5-1-4-2 might be a fast way to access your pictures on your phone but for most people, myself included, it sucks way more than swipe-tap-tap-swipe-gets out tissue-hhuuuuuu-hhuuuuuu-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-holds phone up at oblique angle while staring into glare-(thinks to self) "nope, still got fingerprint smudges"-hhuuuuu-hhuuuuuu-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe-swipe- (thinks to self, again) "who the fuck designed this goddamn thing?!?! Thats quite alright. I'll stick with menu-*-9-5-1-4-2, thanks.
    12. Re:Strategy? by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      Using the web for what?  Scores? Quotes? Directions? Headlines?   Generally available as an add on to regular cell phones for far cheaper each month.

      FYI - I've had a smartphone (non-apple) for two years.  It was cool for the first six months but I can only categorize its usefulness (to me) as 'a convenience' not as a necessity.  And at 400+ a year, its not worth.  YMMV.

    13. Re:Strategy? by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      Dude.. chill.  You are one of the tiny % that have not only a desire, but a use for those features.  Most people don't.

      I might add - I don't tend to keep my photos on my cell phone and longer than necessary and I use a real camera for real photos.  Cell phone photos are throw-aways.  Poor lens, poor sensors. 

    14. Re:Strategy? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      See, you're still missing the point - people who get the iPhone do use those features. It's not a tiny percentage, no matter how much you want it to be.

      Perhaps you just don't understand how usable the iPhone actually is. People don't use their smartphones for general web access because frankly, the interfaces suck. That's not the case anymore.

      Disclaimer: I am a fully satisfied iPhone user, and I browse the web damn near constantly on it.

  8. Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor news by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Although it is "stuff", I guess. Apple has ALWAYS been about the software - there has only been one point at which buying their hardware was advisable on any level, in the age of the G4. The PC quickly whipped their ass and the Mac became a PC (in the x86 sense.) Irony.

    However, Apple has always been pretty bad at the hardware, with the exception of the intel-based macbooks. It looked sexy, but had serious flaws. For example, macs didn't have accelerated graphics (not even ANY 2d accel) until late in the Mac II era. But we're talking about a machine designed to be used only graphically. This seems like a major oversight - and it is. If the Amiga had been competently marketed instead of the company being sucked dry, today it would be "Apple who?"

    Apple has ALSO always tried to make you do things their way, and if you don't like it, you can fuck off. These days you can see that in the form of their latest bid to prevent people buying iPhones without a contract. You could also see it in the iPhone with the fact that originally there was to be NO user-developed software beyond webapps, and even today you have to run a special OS release that Apple can (and HAS) terminate at will, or accidentally.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. I took a look at an iPhone the other day by Centurix · · Score: 4, Funny

    That someone imported into Australia, interesting device. Not sure I'm interested in it though.

    There's a bit of scope in the market for software giants to chip into this.

    gPhone - Targetting non-evil people, has 11 buttons, 0-9 and a "dial/hangup/camera/gps/play music/search" button
    MSPhone - Steve Ballmer made one for himself out of a tennis racket, twine and bleach, bundled with a left over Zune to provide fully functioning WMA support.
    jPhone (I know a lot of phones run java already) - You get two phones, a client phone which makes all the calls, and a larger server phone which does all the connecting to the towers. You can upgrade to a 3-tier mobile phone system, using mochaFrappeLite. Bundled with a free tweed jacket with leather patches.

    --
    Task Mangler
    1. Re:I took a look at an iPhone the other day by multi-flavor-geek · · Score: 1

      I sat on one, luckily the screen was already cracked... I hate trying to type on the things, yeah, its nice to have google and what not at your fingertips everywhere you go but then again thats why we have this thing called a memory. I am going to say to hell with the iphone and all of that and stick with my thirty dollar mobile-virgin (like that ever happens) where if I break it or lose it, or drop it in the Pacific ocean and even after flushing it out all of the residual salt corrodes the circuit boards (done this) I can just go to the store and buy a new one. I was also just thinking, wouldn't the MSPhone ask you to hang up so it could complete the call dialing process?

      --
      Like arts? Like cheesy little Indie mags? Check out www.artwerkmag.com, and don't laugh at the bad coding please.
  10. Meta-summary: apple is still a software company. by argent · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apple is, like Cisco, primarily a software company. It's Apple's software that sells its hardware, so while their revenue model is based on hardware sales, it's the software that makes them happen. No matter how nice Apple's hardware might be, without their software they'd sell no more than any other boutique hardware vendor, and once they burned through their cash reserves and liquid assets they'd just be another Alienware waiting to be bought by Dell or HP.

    Focussing on their hardware, whether it's the iMac or iPhone, is definitely missing the point. This guy definitely gets it.

    One thing that I would like to see more of is details of the ad-hoc licensing. My google-fu is failing me there.

  11. Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Apple's grand strategy is the same as any highly successful tech company: lock-in based on a solid platform. e.g., Microsoft: proprietary OS platform with integrated business apps; Apple: proprietary hardware and music store with integrated components; Cisco, proprietary hardware overlaid with integrated interface, etc.

    The real strength is the iPhone 2.0 software
    Nah...as a developer I really don't give two hoots about this unless it's something I can use cross-platform. The iPhone is such a small player in the cell phone market that I'd rather just handle it through optimized web sites and web services than building some localized app that will break with iPhone 3.0 software.
  12. Still no open source apps by SilentTristero · · Score: 3, Informative
    From TFA:

    Still, neither of the iPhone DRM licenses enables the collaborative development that typifies open source projects. So Apple created a new "ad hoc" license that allows developers private distribution of iPhone executables to up to 100 registered handsets. Groups of coders can share work in progress binaries via e-mail or source code control.

    However, even the ad hoc license is not the wide-open solution that the open source community ultimately desires. An iPhone user should be able to opt into installing and running unsigned applications, a capability offered by all competing mobile platforms. This is the showstopper for me. A smartphone without a real freeware ecosystem will never truly thrive, for the same reasons that that open source development and commercial s/w development drive each other on standard platforms.
    1. Re:Still no open source apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A smartphone without a real freeware ecosystem will never truly thrive

      Good suggestion for a Slashdot poll. Will the iPhone thrive?
      Check back next year for the answer.
    2. Re:Still no open source apps by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is the showstopper for me. A smartphone without a real freeware ecosystem will never truly thrive, for the same reasons that that open source development and commercial s/w development drive each other on standard platforms.

      From a geek's standpoint, you don't want a smartphone without open source options. For an average consumer, do they really care? They just want things to work. When the iPod came out there was a lot of griping about technically inferior the iPod was, and that it would never flourish. Hundreds of millions of iPods later, I would say that it's been a success. Really, my grandma didn't/doesn't care that the iPod can't play ogg-vorbis. All she knows is that when she puts her new CD into her computer in iTunes and then plugs in her iPod, she gets her music. If she got an iPhone she'd only care about getting on eBay to see if she won that cute figurine. She doesn't need to see the source code.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    3. Re:Still no open source apps by Firehed · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say that's entirely accurate, from my understanding. Source code is source code, and you can attach whatever license you like. The difference here is that in order for truly widespread distribution, it has to go through a single point. If you care about open source for the sake of actually having the source, the lack of easy binary distribution is a non-issue since you're just going to modify things and re-compile it yourself.

      I'm not saying that I agree with the policy, but I wouldn't say that it's a show-stopper either.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    4. Re:Still no open source apps by mrslacker · · Score: 1

      No one seems to have made the obligatory mention of the Freerunner yet:

      http://www.openmoko.com/

      About as open as it could be.

    5. Re:Still no open source apps by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Nothing is stopping a developer from giving their application for free and publishing the source code online except that the developer would have to pay $99 a year for the licensing.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    6. Re:Still no open source apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah it would thrive like linux... Is it really that hard to believe that people paying $500 for an iPhone don't care about open source! Look at all the people paying for a song again to use it as a ringtone!

    7. Re:Still no open source apps by Pike · · Score: 1

      IIRC, the 100-phone limit is only for if you want to distribute your app privately (e.g., corporate in-house apps, etc). Anyone can distribute freeware to the world through the "App Store" for free (e.g. no cost to you as developer, and no cost to users if you set your price at zero dollars). Most of the apps demoed at wwdc were freeware.

    8. Re:Still no open source apps by SilentTristero · · Score: 1

      Is that true? I thought you still need a $99 dev license to get the app signed, otherwise it won't run on the hardware. But I could be mistaken.

    9. Re:Still no open source apps by Jhan · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is the showstopper for me. A smartphone without a real freeware ecosystem will never truly thrive...

      So host your freeware on AppStore. They seem to encourage it since a few of the apps in the keynote where free downloads.

      Make it, upload it, set the price to 0. Any iPhone user can download it for zero cost.

      Of course it still sucks that this free program will have been DRM:ed by Aplle and can't be freely exchanged between phones, but such is life.

      --

      I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.

    10. Re:Still no open source apps by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
      But by your own argument, if a device has to "just play music" or "just get you on eBay", then if it does both of those things, then why would you care if Apple makes it or not?

      Oh, and please stop with the incorrect usage of the word "ecosystem" when talking about small, white electronic boxes...

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    11. Re:Still no open source apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is, the consumers of development environments are developers. Successful platforms are ones that cater to developers, not the average consumer. If you shoot your developers in the foot, you're shooting yourself in the foot.

    12. Re:Still no open source apps by admactanium · · Score: 1

      Nothing is stopping a developer from giving their application for free and publishing the source code online except that the developer would have to pay $99 a year for the licensing. couldn't someone just pay the $99 one time and then have open source project run through that one developer account, thereby amortizing the cost of the dev account over many apps?
    13. Re:Still no open source apps by martinX · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure my iPods ear buds are an ecosystem. Creatures in there have probably evolved a system of government by now, too.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    14. Re:Still no open source apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, if you could just get them to sing, you'd never need to replace the batteries. Hell, you could dispense with the iPod entirely.

    15. Re:Still no open source apps by shilly · · Score: 1

      If you satisfy your developers at the expense of your consumers, you're on much more of a hiding to nothing.

  13. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

    Although it is "stuff", I guess. Apple has ALWAYS been about the software - there has only been one point at which buying their hardware was advisable on any level, in the age of the G4. The PC quickly whipped their ass and the Mac became a PC (in the x86 sense.) Irony.

    Actually, I don't think it has ever really been about the software. The powerPC architecture is/was more efficient then X86 so you didn't need CPUs in the 3 GHZ range. However when people saw an 800 MHZ CPU in a Mac and a 1.3 GHZ low-end Pentium 4, most people would buy the PC (when with a PC you can get the hardware for cheap compared to a Mac). When it became clear that OSX could be easily transitioned into the X86 architecture Apple did.

    Apple has ALSO always tried to make you do things their way, and if you don't like it, you can fuck off. These days you can see that in the form of their latest bid to prevent people buying iPhones without a contract. You could also see it in the iPhone with the fact that originally there was to be NO user-developed software beyond webapps, and even today you have to run a special OS release that Apple can (and HAS) terminate at will, or accidentally.

    Apple follows Steve, half the time he comes up with something great, the other half Apple is almost bankrupt by the time he comes up with another better idea. Just think the Apple ][ was great, the Apple III a disaster, the Lisa a commercial failure while the Mac was a best-seller.
    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  14. We'll see how well apps catch on by deanston · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sure it's the software, but it's also the whole ecosystem, which Jobs likes to control to deliver a finer experience. Sure Google can offer so much more, but if somebody put Android on a crappy hardware with bad programming so it's experience sucks there's nothing Google can do about it. And who's going to install Adobe AIR on their WinMo or BB? Now Apple has basically become the first to hand you the whole cloud computing experience on a mobile phone.

  15. Avoiding malware and crapware by G4from128k · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I suspect that part of Apple's restrictive software distribution strategy is to avoid malware and crapware from creeping into the iPhone ecosystem. It's something like a walled garden or customs & border protection model for software distribution. Although I'm sure that enterprising criminals will find ways to break into the iPhone, Apple's approach does raise barriers to drive-by downloads, worms, trojans, and socially-engineered installations of malware.

    Time will tell whether restricting software distribution for the iPhone is a net positive or negative in either creating a stable, easy-to-use, secure environment for mobile computing or in stifling development for a subset of developers.

    --
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
    1. Re:Avoiding malware and crapware by ajlitt · · Score: 1

      While WinMo and Palm phones don't see much malware, they do have a bumpy 3rd party app landscape. Even the app resellers like Handango and PocketGear/PalmGear do little to ensure that you're getting a quality, reliable app that plays well with the others you've bought. Currently I have about five licenses for Palm apps, at least two of which made my phone unstable while they were installed. They were all from high-profile developers and were well regarded by the community.

      A centralized store that sold apps that were qualified to work properly on their target would go a long way to making people want to shell out for software locked to one vendor's phone. Before someone complains about the fact that the software can't be resold, well, I still have those Palm apps, all of which have license keys locked to my sync ID.

    2. Re:Avoiding malware and crapware by ahoehn · · Score: 1

      I suspect that part of Apple's restrictive software distribution strategy is to avoid malware and crapware from creeping into the iPhone ecosystem. And I suspect that most of the motivation behind Apple's restrictive software distribution strategy is to make buckets and buckets of money.
      --
      Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
    3. Re:Avoiding malware and crapware by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
      I suspect that part of Apple's restrictive software distribution strategy is to avoid malware and crapware from creeping into the iPhone ecosystem.

      So you mean to say that with iPhone software they are taking a completely different stance than with OS X? Because Apple have blatantly refused to fix quite a few security holes in Safari and OS X so far so things aren't looking that great for iPhone security...

      Oh, and stop with the "corporate speak" please - an "ecosystem" is a natural phenomena based on flora, fauna, geography & climate, it has no relevance to a small white portable device apart from trying to make it sound a lot more important than it actually is.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    4. Re:Avoiding malware and crapware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course Apple wants "to make buckets and buckets of money." All public companies want this. However I think you might me missing the complexity of how they want to achieve this.

      Apple makes a little money selling OS X, but they make OS X to sell Macs from which they make "buckets" of money. Apple makes a little money selling music, but they sell music to sell iPods from which they make "buckets" of money.

      Apple may make a little money from the App Store, but I think they are controlling it primarily (although I am sure other factors are at play) to maintain the iPhone as a stable attractive phone/MID which will allow them to sell more iPhones and make "buckets and buckets" of money.

      For many users keeping the platform simple and stable is more important than Free Software politics, or the disadvantages of not being able to run F/OSS.

    5. Re:Avoiding malware and crapware by shilly · · Score: 1

      Re: ecosystem

      Jeez, it's just a bit of not-particularly-elitist jargon that's commonly understood to mean "not merely the device, ie iPhone, but the peripherals, software and other content whose sales are only possible because of the device's existence". I once had a chemistry professor who got cross that people used the word "organic" in the context of food, instead of carbon chemistry. For the life of me, I can't understand why people apparently view it as immoral for a word to have two distinct but related meanings, with one an analogy derived from the other; nor why they don't see that this is a routine feature of English (I love apple pie and I love you; the animal had horny projections and was feeling horny; etc etc).

    6. Re:Avoiding malware and crapware by dangitman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, a one-time $99 developer fee, combined with the ongoing costs of administering and bookkeeping those developers, is a real gravy-train of cash.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  16. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

    Ouch. Well said. Hope the Apple fanboys don't mod you into karmic hell for that one.

    Yes, Apple is a software company in drag. I've always said that. The hardware isn't why people buy Macs or iPhones -- the hardware just isn't that good. The hardware just makes appear that they aren't going toe-to-toe with Microsoft. Even when they really are.

  17. Its sad to see such nice tech being locked-down... by distantbody · · Score: 1

    ...but hey, it's Apples platform-- I just guess that el Jobso has his plans for it that require it to be locked-down...

  18. Thoughts on MobileMe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    A few years back, I would have thought MobileMe to be the perfect way to keep information on all my devices. (Or at least what "all my devices" would be if I had an iPhone.)

    But after using Google Apps for my personal email for well over a year now, filing individual messages into folders just seems quaint. GMail allows me to apply labels to entire threads at once.

    Furthermore, although it doesn't exist in GMail yet, there is the potential for Google Gears to allow browser-based offline access. In my opinion, this is the direction email, contact management, and calendaring should be moving toward.

    PS. I do understand all the arguments against having Google control you're email; I'm just saying I like that direction.

  19. It's good by yabos · · Score: 1

    Once you get around the syntax, Objective-C is not hard to use at all. The language runtime is very dynamic and memory management is easy reference counting or garbage collected if you want(but no GC on iPhone). I came from the standard C/C++ background and I found it a little weird after using C/C++ for many years but you can pick up Objective-C relatively fast. The big learning curve is learning what frameworks and APIs you need to use to do what you want which requires lots of learning and/or looking up things all the time but that's really the same with any other frameworks.

  20. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't have the skills to be developer and maybe I'm don't know something you know but here is what I see: If I can develop an application for the iPhone, I can be an independent developer without having to go through anyone but Apple. Millions of users can buy my app easily. I don't have to worry about maintaining an infrastructure for a yearly $99 license. If I charge $10, I get to keep $7. If 14 people in the world buy it, I've broken even. If 10,000 people buy my app, I've made $70,000. That is why I think a lot of people are interested: the potential of it.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  21. !bricked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oh...wait...

  22. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by yabos · · Score: 1

    The iPhone 1.0 was not ready for 3rd party development. If you have been following the SDK releases you can see that they have been changing at a very rapid pace. The early iPhone software was basically not ready for people to use and the API was not stable. Giving people the ability to develop web apps that looked like native apps was the best thing they could do at the time.

    Now that they are stabilizing the APIs, people can write native applications. The iPhone at the beginning was already lagging a bit IMO and you can see that because they had to delay Leopard to work on it.

  23. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by jocknerd · · Score: 1

    I agree. Apple calls itself a hardware company. But I've always said they needed to write the best software out there to get people to buy their hardware. They could have been Microsoft. They could have licensed the original Mac OS and Microsoft would have been known as a producer of office apps. But Steve was a control freak. Granted, they make the sexiest hardware now. The iMac is far superior to any PC for consumers. And the Mac Pro is phenomenal, I just wish more affordable. And the MacBook and MacBook Pro are best in class as well.

    But I didn't switch to Apple for the hardware. I switched because I wanted to use OS X. And no, I didn't come from Windows. I came from Linux. I still use Linux, but 90% of the time its on servers.

  24. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I can develop an application for the iPhone, I can be an independent developer without having to go through anyone but Apple.

    And if you're a PC developer, then you can be independent without having to go through anyone full stop. It's a crying shame, and a testament to the egregious and undue influence the telecom industry has over our government, that the cell phone market isn't like that too. This kind of shit -- that is, requiring apps to have the "blessing" of the device manufacturer or service provider to work -- ought to be illegal!

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  25. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I charge $10, I get to keep $7. If 14 people in the world buy it, I've broken even.
    Yikes - yes, let's keep you away from the business side of the house.

    You forgot to include the value of your time to develop the application, any time it might take to market it (e.g., even if it's just posting to Slashdot), any support costs, taxes, etc. Also, if 10K people might buy your app for their iPhone, there might be 100K people who might buy it if had a wider cell phone base, or 1000K people who might buy it if it was available for PCs, etc., so you might be chasing a tiny "profit pool" anyway if you only target the iPhone.

    Microsoft has a similar model going with MSDN and lesser licenses and so do thousands of other vendors with a proprietary platform and a paid SDK/API/dev environment.

    The $99 is there basically to protect Apple from the total time-wasters; Apple would otherwise give this away free so they can get developers, developers, developers.

  26. Hope Steve gets better by Gorimek · · Score: 3, Funny

    In that case Jobs has a pretty massive constipation. I hope he finds relief in some way.

    1. Re:Hope Steve gets better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It couldn't be as big as Bono.

  27. Roland's opinion ? by KingofSpades · · Score: 1

    So what does Roland's blog say about this ? I can't wait !

  28. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except that you need to get listed on a popular website, pay for marketing, distribution, credit card processing fees, etc. For many small developers, getting this set up is what ultimately kills their ideas. They want to code (and get paid for it) and if someone else can worry about the logistics of selling and distributing the app, all the better.

    Yes, it's not the bazaar environment of the internet, but there's room in the big world for more than one model.

  29. Question by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Will the iPhone eventually kill the iPod? If you're going to carry a phone and an MP3 player anyway, won't you want to combine them? Especially since Apple is ripping the iTouch people for extra dosh on every upgrade.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Question by Rams�s+Morales · · Score: 1

      I think it already did. They are giving them for free if you buy a new macbook.

    2. Re:Question by jerryodom · · Score: 1
      From recent experience I would say probably not.(though it may reduce their sales)

      My wife wants both for the sake of wanting to keep the items seperate. She has the nano and likes it because it's small and she can leave it in her designated areas.(such as plugged in to the car or on the patio where she sits)

      --
      For some reason I refuse to use either spell check or the spacebar properly.
  30. Open Enough? by Dyne09 · · Score: 1

    I appreciate the fact Apple will pay private developers 70% of the digital distribution proceeds, however, with the advancement of Android, and an entire plethora of next gen hand sets, I think Apple might be shooting itself in the foot. This is the same strategy that made Apple, the once even competitor with windows, now dominate less than 5% of the market share. Pretty soon, anyone will be able to download Android and install it on any mobile device hardware, and use any data plan they like. Screw the exclusive AT&T plans, Android will revolutionize the global G3 marketplace. And, in addition to all of that, Android will be FREE.

    1. Re:Open Enough? by operand · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't envision a place where carrriers will allow anybody to download and install Android on any device. They will try to lock it down as much as possible by customizing to their liking then pass the fee to the consumers

      --
      string.Empty();
    2. Re:Open Enough? by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 1

      You are forgetting about an important group here, customers.

      A platform with no customers won't matter even if its a developer's shangrilah.

      That being said I'm sure Android will quickly rise to be the #2 platform after the iPhone becomes #1 but Apple's device will have more customers because it focuses on them. The average buyer doesn't care about open source or free software or even know what those things mean.

      And if being open really mattered for mobiles then why is Blackberry #1 instead of Windows Mobile at the moment?

      --
      Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
  31. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    The powerPC architecture is/was more efficient then X86 so you didn't need CPUs in the 3 GHZ range.

    Having been awake during that time I can tell you that this is horseshit. The only time the PowerPC has honestly been faster than the x86-compatible processor of the day was during the era of the G4, and for about two months after the G5 was released. That's it. PPC601, 603, 604 were ALL slower than their high-end PC counterparts. And most critically, Apple hardware really did come at a huge price premium at that time. It's true that Apple has never had price-performance so bad (compared to PCs) as during the Quadra era, when Macs were half the speed (or less - especially in the graphics department!) and often as much as twice the price even comparing high end to high end.

    Apple follows Steve, half the time he comes up with something great, the other half Apple is almost bankrupt by the time he comes up with another better idea. Just think the Apple ][ was great, the Apple III a disaster, the Lisa a commercial failure while the Mac was a best-seller.

    I agree, except that you forgot the IIgs (moderate success but mostly it was too expensive.) :)

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  32. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    The iPhone 1.0 was not ready for 3rd party development. If you have been following the SDK releases you can see that they have been changing at a very rapid pace. The early iPhone software was basically not ready for people to use and the API was not stable. Giving people the ability to develop web apps that looked like native apps was the best thing they could do at the time.

    Translation: the iPhone was rushed to market before it was ready, and instead of getting developers on board before the release to make sure it was worth releasing, Apple took a gigantic shit on them.

    Now that they are stabilizing the APIs, people can write native applications. The iPhone at the beginning was already lagging a bit IMO and you can see that because they had to delay Leopard to work on it.

    Translation: Apple is spread too thin to actually give proper attention to their OS or to their Phone.

    Apple fanboys will make endless excuses for Apple while criticizing other companies for precisely the same behavior. Luckily, I have karma to burn.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  33. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Ouch. Well said. Hope the Apple fanboys don't mod you into karmic hell for that one.

    Too late. Luckily, I can afford it.

    If there were no Karma Kap, I could afford it basically indefinitely :P

    The hardware isn't why people buy Macs or iPhones -- the hardware just isn't that good. The hardware just makes appear that they aren't going toe-to-toe with Microsoft. Even when they really are.

    That's pretty much it. Apple is honestly not very good at the hardware thing. All props to the Woz for the Apple I and ][, back when you could do that kind of thing in your garage. This is NOT to say that no current apple machines are good. I am general impressed with the current Macbooks in spite of the broad range of very stupid problems Apple has had with heat, hinges, power connectors, improperly implementing the CMD IDE chip in the B&W G3 Rev. 1, once again the total lack of graphics acceleration until the 8*24 GC... It really points to broad-based incompetence.

    I also just want to say here that I've been using the Mac OS off and on since version 5, I've done my share of resedit hacking (when I was a kid I thought it was awfully neat that I could add a picture to the zterm download window and stuff like that... now I know there's a price for that convenience, and that forked files are forked up) and all that stuff. I've used practically everything on the desktop (well, I never had an ST... or an acorn) and I really have an excellent basis for comparison.

    In fact, I've had or worked with macs of every generation (including having the fun of opening imacs and such crap) and PCs of every generation (my PC-1 motherboard still hangs on a friend's wall) as well as tons of other hardware. And Apple has really never been very competent in the hardware category. Mostly they excel at making cases. Even that is not necessarily true - I've hated having to try to work on any non-tower mac since the Mac II series. You could take a IIci's logic board out without tools and the machine could take some serious abuse. If anything, Apple has lost any ability they once had in this area.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  34. Re:Meta-summary: apple is still a software company by cowscows · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're pretty much right, but I think it's worth mentioning that although the software is really the keystone of Apple's success, they've also got the ability to make decent hardware if the need arises. They didn't have to wait for someone to release an mp3 player with a scroll wheel. They decided that that'd be the best interface for their iPod software(or more likely the two evolved together), and so they designed their own hardware. The same happened to a lesser extend with the iPhone. Apple didn't need to convince a phone manufacturer to build a handset that was basically just a big multi-touch capable screen, they went and designed their own.

    It's also important to notice that those hardware specifics are generally tied to hardware requirements to make the user-interface work. That is to say, it ties really directly and clearly back into the software. At the same time that Apple is designing new hardware features to interface with their software, they've been generally moving towards more commodity hardware for the guts of their stuff. While the iMac has a history of the outside looking rather unusual compared to most computers, the components inside the shell are usually pretty standard stuff that'd be just as at home in a PC as in a Mac. The recent-ish switch to Intel being one of the most obvious examples.

    It's a pretty reasonable strategy for product design, especially considering the consumer market.

    --

    One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  35. Apple's Strategy by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Very simple.

    Make stuff that looks a certain way on the basis that you are appealing to the fact that some people are prepared to pay for exclusivity, rather than functionality, first.

    Charge a premium price to keep it exclusive and pump the additional money into the overall design and look of the product so that the device can be worn or carried as a fashion accessory, thus appealing to those people that need to make open displays of allegiances to certain product brands.

    In this respect, Apple are no different to Ferrari, Chanel or Gucci - in other words, fine for some but if you just need something to make phone calls, drop the kids off to school in, smell nice or keep your feet dry, there are probably a lot more economical ways of doing it.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    1. Re:Apple's Strategy by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Very simple. Make stuff that looks a certain way on the basis that you are appealing to the fact that some people are prepared to pay for exclusivity, rather than functionality, first.

      I disagree. There are dozens of phones out that look very similar to the iPhone, by intention. Nah, Apple's strategy with the iPhone is the same one they used with the iPod. Enter a market with a product that is not cheaper or more featureful than the competition, but usability test the heck out of it, including the surrounding services and software. Provide only the features that work really, really well and easily. For the most part, people buy and use iPhones because a lot of the features present on other smartphones are just too hard to use for the average person. They're fine for geeks, but just not there for normal people. This explains why iPhone users actually use the features of their phones more often than users of competing phones. Is the iPhone the only one that can look up your location on a map and then find the closest sushi place and it's phone number? Nope. If it was my father using it, though, I'd sure rather he had an iPhone so he could do it in less than ten minutes and didn't have to ask me questions.

      Basically, it is the same reason the Wii is selling so well, they expanded an existing market by making it more suited to the masses.

    2. Re:Apple's Strategy by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
      Okay, so here's the deal.

      I'm a middle-aged geek that hates spending money. I can't say I was ever into the "brand name" thing but then I was a teenager during the 70s here in the UK when the whole "brand name" thing was in its infancy so I kind of missed it - and because I'm a grumpy old man now, I could care less about it now.

      So I've never understood the "stand out from the crowd" attitude - to me, mobile phones, laptops, digital cameras etc. are tools to get a job done. Yes, they need to be convenient and portable, they need to be usable but my attitude is that if it's not easy to use out of the box then, whatever - I'll learn to use it and read the instruction manual. And as for what shape or colour it is - within reason I really don't care.

      I don't get the "now" generation at all and they probably don't get me so we're even. As for Apple, they've never made anything that I particularly wanted at a price I wanted to pay but to give them credit, they've probably come a whole lot closer than Ferrari, Chanel or Gucci ever have.

      In other words, my initial posting was an attempt was trying to make an objective statement of fact without too much emotion involved - I don't need stuff I buy to look nice to other people so take the fact that a fair proportion of the price of an Apple product has gone into making it look good, then I can find equally usable stuff a lot cheaper elsewhere.

      To be fair, you make a good argument - it's the idiot that Trolled me for seeing my comment as a criticism of Apple rather than a comment of "why Apple's products have never given me a boner" that needs a good kicking.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    3. Re:Apple's Strategy by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      In other words, my initial posting was an attempt was trying to make an objective statement of fact without too much emotion involved - I don't need stuff I buy to look nice to other people so take the fact that a fair proportion of the price of an Apple product has gone into making it look good, then I can find equally usable stuff a lot cheaper elsewhere.

      Apple spends money on industrial design to make products look good, but I'm not sure you can consider that to be a "fair proportion of the price of an Apple product". It's a one time expense for each product, the same as the other engineering costs and probably no more than Sony and the like spend. Since they sell so many, it is probably more than absorbed by their bulk pricing discounts for components. Your argument is that you can find equally usable products, cheaper elsewhere. My argument is that, for most people this is not true. For the average person, Apple products are significantly more usable for the tasks people normally perform... and that is what has made their products sell so well in comparison to other products who spend as much or more on industrial design and marketing.

      For an example, lets look at the iPod (note I don't own an iPod or iPhone). When it came out it was more expensive and had less space than a nomad and was predicted to fail by many here on Slashdot. It succeeded wildly in drawing in new users. At the time, Apple was not even that well known of a brand and was not trendy. Why did it succeed? The reason is iTunes and the iTunes store and the iPod interface itself. It was the first player where people could easily rip their CDs and get them onto the device. I know people, smart people, that installed iTunes just for the purpose of ripping their music collections to use with a different player. Apple was the first one to make all the tasks users wanted to do, easy enough for Joe six-tooth.

      People that write off Apple's success as because their products are trendy or pretty are simply not understanding Apple's strategy and success in these markets and looking for a reason that they can dismiss. Their strategy is also a reason why a lot of their products are not ideal for Slashdotters. We want features and generally don't mind tinkering and figuring things out. iPods lack of an FM tuner may be a bigger drawback to a geek than its ease of use is a benefit. This is fine, but it does lead many to fail to understand the perspective of the masses is different and overall usability is important and sells devices.

    4. Re:Apple's Strategy by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      Okay, so here's the deal.



      So I've never understood the "stand out from the crowd" attitude - to me, mobile phones, laptops, digital cameras etc. are tools to get a job done. Yes, they need to be convenient and portable, they need to be usable but my attitude is that if it's not easy to use out of the box then, whatever - I'll learn to use it and read the instruction manual. And as for what shape or colour it is - within reason I really don't care.


      I don't get the "now" generation at all and they probably don't get me so we're even. As for Apple, they've never made anything that I particularly wanted at a price I wanted to pay but to give them credit, they've probably come a whole lot closer than Ferrari, Chanel or Gucci ever have.


      In other words, my initial posting was an attempt was trying to make an objective statement of fact without too much emotion involved - I don't need stuff I buy to look nice to other people so take the fact that a fair proportion of the price of an Apple product has gone into making it look good, then I can find equally usable stuff a lot cheaper elsewhere.

      I think that the error in your thinking is the idea that people buy Apple products because the "look good." In reality, many of the competing products look just as good. There are already numerous music players that look like the iPod, and phones that look like the iPhone, probably the manufacturer made the same error of thinking that what sells Apple products is the look.

      The reality is that what sells Apple products is usability, and the stylish look is primarily a symptom of the fact that the company thinks deeply about every aspect of its products.For many people, working around the limitations of a clumsily designed product is just a constant irritation, like living in a house where the doorways are all so narrow so you have to turn sideways to walk through and each door has the doorknob in a different place. It's not that you can't get from room to room, it's just annoying. If you are going to pay that much for a product, why not pay a little bit more and have it actually work the way you'd like it to? Of course, this depends to some extent on how much you value your own time, and how much the satisfaction of saving money compensates.
    5. Re:Apple's Strategy by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1
      Note: I am not the grandparent.

      I think that the error in your thinking is the idea that people buy Apple products because the "look good."
      I think it's partially to do with brand recognition.

      For many people, working around the limitations of a clumsily designed product is just a constant irritation, like living in a house where the doorways are all so narrow so you have to turn sideways to walk through and each door has the doorknob in a different place. It's not that you can't get from room to room, it's just annoying.
      Indeed, that's why I don't have a iphone.

      I like to have keys I can physically feel so I don't need to look at it to use it. I want to be able to load custom software onto the phone should I need it (not too long ago, I installer live messenger on my phone because I needed it).

      Plus why would I enjoy being locked into using stupid software like a music player (iTunes) to manage my mobile phone? It's just annoying.

      If you are going to pay that much for a product, why not pay a little bit more and have it actually work the way you'd like it to?
      I have a 3 Skype Phone currently and I will say - if the phone cost the same as a iPhone, I still would of bought it. It does exactly what I want and more with no fuss (and hell cheap for what it is in my opinion).
      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    6. Re:Apple's Strategy by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 1

      The fact that iPhone owners use more data bandwidth than other smartphone owners flies in the face of your "brand whore form over function" assumptions of iPhone owners.

      --
      Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
    7. Re:Apple's Strategy by dangitman · · Score: 1

      I can't say I was ever into the "brand name" thing but then I was a teenager during the 70s here in the UK when the whole "brand name" thing was in its infancy so I kind of missed it That doesn't make any sense. Brand names and advertising were completely mature in the 1970s, they'd been going for over a century by that point, and really picked up steam during the industrial revolution.
      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
  36. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    I didn't say it wouldn't cost you anything. I said that you would not have to maintain your own infrastructure: website, hosting fees, credit card fees. Or you could go through a distributor that will charge you 40% and additional fees. Also whether you develop for Windows or iPhone you still have all the other costs that you mention.

    Also there is the problem of visibility. There are more Windows Mobile users but the issue with developing for that platform was that you couldn't access a large number of users in any one place. AT&T users go to their store. T-Mobile, their store, etc. There are independent stores too. With Apple they are all on one site. You might think that it is chasing a smaller pool of customers overall, but I would argue you are actually targeting more customers in a way.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  37. I think you could still have Free Software apps. . by JSBiff · · Score: 1

    I don't see why Open Source / Free Software apps still couldn't happen on the iPhone. For one thing, I would assume that actual development of the programs occurs on a Mac or PC, then get's cross-compiled for the iPhone. So, you can just setup your normal website/sourceforge, cvs/subversion, mailing lists, etc that you would normally use to manage the project, and people can download the source and do development on their computer. As for testing the app on your iPhone, the apps are required to be signed with a key, but I don't necessarily see any reason an open source project couldn't get a key from Apple, sign their builds (even developer builds), which would then allow any developer to download that build and test it.

    So, what, exactly, is the problem again?

  38. Apple's strategy... unchanged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Their strategy is pretty easy to decode:

    1. make money.
    2. make money.
    3. make money, so that we can
    4. make even more money.

    I think they are doing great. Just for kicks (and to kick myself), I looked at how much I could have made if I had just invested $1000 in Apple in 1985. Taking the stock splits into account, that stock would be worth more than $500,000.

    Apple is a great example of how you can take a fanatical fan base, show them nothing but contempt, charge outrageous amounts of money for everything connected with your products... and be adored all the more for it. THAT'S the kind of stock worth investing in, but it's a shame that setup is so difficult to replicate.

    And... best of all, they are eating Linux's lunch. If someone hates Microsoft SO much, they aren't going to get Linux. They are going to buy a Mac, of course, and get locked in to that money sink (at least $150 in El Jobso's pocket every time they make a point release is great for Apple's bottom line!).

    While Linux likewise has the fanatical user base... they just have no way of monetizing it. Linux users like being locked into that platform, but not enough to actually pay for anything. They are happy to use hardware two generations out of date, happy with being completely locked into FOSS (since extremely few companies will write for Linux), etc, but not happy enough to actually spend any money supporting what they supposedly believe in. Look at Red Hat- they've been doing poorly for years now, and that's not going to change (although their dropping the failed "Linux on the Desktop" project will undoubtedly help them a great deal).

    While Apple has been gaining market share (up to 4-5%)... Linux's has remained flat for the past ten years (always around 0.65%, even as the size of the market has virtually exploded). Meaning... every Apple sold is coming from Linux's share of the market (either actual or potential). Which is good, since Linux has no chance of succeeding in competition with Microsoft, while Apple can do quite well with a tiny market share.

    1. Re:Apple's strategy... unchanged by sgtrock · · Score: 4, Informative

      "While Linux likewise has the fanatical user base... they just have no way of monetizing it. Linux users like being locked into that platform, but not enough to actually pay for anything. They are happy to use hardware two generations out of date, happy with being completely locked into FOSS (since extremely few companies will write for Linux), etc, but not happy enough to actually spend any money supporting what they supposedly believe in. Look at Red Hat- they've been doing poorly for years now, and that's not going to change (although their dropping the failed "Linux on the Desktop" project will undoubtedly help them a great deal).

      While Apple has been gaining market share (up to 4-5%)... Linux's has remained flat for the past ten years (always around 0.65%, even as the size of the market has virtually exploded). Meaning... every Apple sold is coming from Linux's share of the market (either actual or potential). Which is good, since Linux has no chance of succeeding in competition with Microsoft, while Apple can do quite well with a tiny market share."

      Sigh. You're wrong on so many points that I don't know where to start. The Linux vendors in the server OS and application space have been making money hand over fist for that same ten years, you know.

      We just needed to see the desktop environment catch up, that's all. We needed the OS itself to get responsive enough in the face of no vendor support (and sometimes downright hostile responses to queries about drivers), we needed the applications to get good enough, and we needed some market force to get people to look at Linux as a desktop appliance. That'll settle the lack of vendor support all by itself.

      We've seen the OS get very responsive indeed, to the point that running some games under wine are actually faster than running them in Windows XP on the same hardware. Applications are out there to meet the basic needs of most consumers, while other options are becoming at least tolerable. Driver problems are largely resolved with only a few holdouts refusing to either release binary drivers (not ideal) or provide any help at all to the people writing FOSS drivers.

      Finally, the fact is that your information about marketshare is a bit out of date. Every Website tracking company that publishes its global stats, from Hitslink to W3 Counter to Xiti to TheCounter, all show that Linux began increasing its market share a while back. Depending on how far back a given site lets you see, you can argue that it started in early 2006. Certainly, every tracking site that goes back to December 2006 shows that when Vista was released, Linux began growing. That's market force number one.

      The second is the release of the eee. All of a sudden, the hardware vendors realized that they could make a pot full of money selling a device without having to include Microsoft Windows or OS/X and people would buy it. Not just buy it, stand in line all night to get one!

      Micrsoft's response? A warmed over, extremely limited version of Windows XP Home with a drop dead date that's only 2 years out, and even then they want the hardware restricted. It has the hardware vendors so unimpressed that they seem to be flat out ignoring it.

      Asus stated that they expected to sell 40% of their eee line as Linux. Asus has also decided to include a small Linux distribution in the BIOS of every motherboard that they manufacture.

      MSI figures 50% of the Winds that they sell will be Linux. Acer has publicly stated that they're moving their entire laptop line over to Linux. Dell is still adding desktops and laptops to the pool of preinstalled Linux boxes (including the mini-Inspiron). HP is offering the Mini-Note with Linux side by side with the Vista versions.

      2008/2009 is the start of Linux moving into the mainstream. It's going to be fun to see how far it gets! :)

    2. Re:Apple's strategy... unchanged by molarmass192 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I like Linux. I use it at work on virtually all our servers. I dislike Windows because it's antiquated tech (even Vista). I think that Linux is very fast, very stable, and has excellent hardware support. That said, Linux as a desktop environment is *still* not ready for prime time. The reasons? The GUI toolkits are too fragmented, the GUI IDEs themselves are rudimentary compared to Win and Mac, there isn't a coherent look and feel, and there's virtually no market for packaged desktop apps. I say this as someone who WANTS Linux to succeed on the desktop. The fact is, we need a Linus for the Linux GUI side of things. We have Linux, and we have the GNU stack, but move up to the display layer and things get de-standardized quickly. Trolltech has something good with QT, but a) it's too expensive for the hobbyist market who don't want to go the GPL route, b) the GUI designer is particularly bad, and c) it sacrifices too much for the sakes of portability. The GTK remains a mess in dire need of rewrite. Not to mention that there are 4 dozen other GUI toolkits, some not bad (I'm thinking of you WXWindows), but with virtually no install base. Linux, as an ecosystem, needs to birth it's own LGPL GUI subsystem / window manager and make it the "standard". The means merging the thing into the kernel tree. Ugly, but that's what it will take to define a "standard". Then, there needs to be a really good free common IDE for it. That's a tough nut to crack. However, when that happens, and the Linux UI diaspora is a distant memory, then I think we'll *finally* see traction on the Linux desktop. For now, outside the geek core, all we'll see is closed-smart-terminal-type desktop roll outs like the EEE and kiosk type devices.

      On a side note, as a relatively recent Mac adopter, I have played with GNUStep on Linux. It's actually ok to develop in, and has a decent GUI designer, but the widgets look like they're straight out of 1996. I'd like GNUStep to become the defacto UI for desktop Linux, but there's a mountain of work to be done there.

      --

      Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
    3. Re:Apple's strategy... unchanged by noewun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple is a great example of how you can take a fanatical fan base, show them nothing but contempt, charge outrageous amounts of money for everything connected with your products...

      I know this is Slashdot, where anecdote and off-the-cuff remarks stand in for real argument, but I wonder if you could explain the contempt bit. My experience with Apple products has been that they last me for years and years. My 2G iPod is still going strong on its original battery, and my G5 is three years old and looking like it's got another three years left in it. Fas as I'm concerned, that's great value for the money.

      --
      I am a believer of momentum and curves.
    4. Re:Apple's strategy... unchanged by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1
      Sigh... you missed a golden opportunity.

      Their strategy is pretty easy to decode:

      1. make money.
      2. make money.
      3. ???
      4. profit.
      FTFY. When steps 1 and 2 are "make money", step 3 becomes meaningless. I think you've solved the great mystery of dotcom VC-chasing business plans, you genius.
      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    5. Re:Apple's strategy... unchanged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      er...have you needed to change the battery on your ipod?

      have you wanted to do what you like with your music, unhindered by drm?

      have you wanted to avoid the dire bloatware that is itunes?

      if no to all of these then fair enough, but a lot of people aren't happy with the problems that stem from the greedy way that apple behaves.

    6. Re:Apple's strategy... unchanged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their strategy is pretty easy to decode:

      1. make money.
      2. make money.
      3. make money, so that we can
      4. make even more money.

      I think they are doing great. Just for kicks (and to kick myself), I looked at how much I could have made if I had just invested $1000 in Apple in 1985. Taking the stock splits into account, that stock would be worth more than $500,000.

      Apple is a great example of how you can take a fanatical fan base, show them nothing but contempt, charge outrageous amounts of money for everything connected with your products... and be adored all the more for it. THAT'S the kind of stock worth investing in, but it's a shame that setup is so difficult to replicate.

      And... best of all, they are eating Linux's lunch. If someone hates Microsoft SO much, they aren't going to get Linux. They are going to buy a Mac, of course, and get locked in to that money sink (at least $150 in El Jobso's pocket every time they make a point release is great for Apple's bottom line!).

      While Linux likewise has the fanatical user base... they just have no way of monetizing it. Linux users like being locked into that platform, but not enough to actually pay for anything. They are happy to use hardware two generations out of date, happy with being completely locked into FOSS (since extremely few companies will write for Linux), etc, but not happy enough to actually spend any money supporting what they supposedly believe in. Look at Red Hat- they've been doing poorly for years now, and that's not going to change (although their dropping the failed "Linux on the Desktop" project will undoubtedly help them a great deal).

      While Apple has been gaining market share (up to 4-5%)... Linux's has remained flat for the past ten years (always around 0.65%, even as the size of the market has virtually exploded). Meaning... every Apple sold is coming from Linux's share of the market (either actual or potential). Which is good, since Linux has no chance of succeeding in competition with Microsoft, while Apple can do quite well with a tiny market share.

      Their strategy is pretty easy to decode:

      1. make money.
      2. make money.
      3. make money, so that we can
      4. make even more money.

      I think they are doing great. Just for kicks (and to kick myself), I looked at how much I could have made if I had just invested $1000 in Apple in 1985. Taking the stock splits into account, that stock would be worth more than $500,000.

      Apple is a great example of how you can take a fanatical fan base, show them nothing but contempt, charge outrageous amounts of money for everything connected with your products... and be adored all the more for it. THAT'S the kind of stock worth investing in, but it's a shame that setup is so difficult to replicate.

      And... best of all, they are eating Linux's lunch. If someone hates Microsoft SO much, they aren't going to get Linux. They are going to buy a Mac, of course, and get locked in to that money sink (at least $150 in El Jobso's pocket every time they make a point release is great for Apple's bottom line!).

      While Linux likewise has the fanatical user base... they just have no way of monetizing it. Linux users like being locked into that platform, but not enough to actually pay for anything. They are happy to use hardware two generations out of date, happy with being completely locked into FOSS (since extremely few companies will write for Linux), etc, but not happy enough to actually spend any money supporting what they supposedly believe in. Look at Red Hat- they've been doing poorly for years now, and that's not going to change (although their dropping the failed "Linux on the Desktop" project will undoubtedly help them a great deal).

      While Apple has been gaining market share (up to 4-5%)... Linux's has remained flat for the past ten years (always around 0.65%, even as the size of the market has virtually exploded). Meaning... every Apple sold is coming from Linux's sh

  39. Re:Meta-summary: apple is still a software company by nine-times · · Score: 1

    Apple is, like Cisco, primarily a software company.

    This is "insightful" and not "funny"? This looks like sarcasm to me. Or at least it looks like it should be sarcasm.

  40. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    But I didn't switch to Apple for the hardware. I switched because I wanted to use OS X. And no, I didn't come from Windows. I came from Linux. I still use Linux, but 90% of the time its on servers.

    Actually having to use OSX is what sent me back to Linux. I had been running XP on my desktop so I could play games. Then I sat at XP, Linux, and OSX simultaneously. OSX was on a Dual G5, I went through a couple minor versions, and it was by far the least responsive and least stable. (Linux was on my nw9440.)

    Now, to each their own - if all you want to do is what the OS does already, OSX is probably in the balance not that much worse than anything else. But the minute you want to customize things in a way not approved of by apple you start to run into problems.

    The only things I want from OSX are iLife and FCP. If I ever really need FCP, I'll be able to afford a Mac. iLife alternatives are improving, so that reason is going away for me.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  41. foreign language bindings by DrYak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's another reason.

    One /.er humorously said that this was because it wasn't not Java.

    There's a grain of through there.

    Obj-C as pointed by a /. isn't popular at all. Only NEXTSTEP and its various clones (Mac OS X, GnuStep) use it.
    iPhone developers will have to learn yet another C variant, to which they are most probably not used. Some of those developer may even never learned C or C++ in the first place.

    Java is the platform attracting the most mindshare currently for embed platform (keep in mind it was initially designed for it) and the MIDP platform you find on lot of embed device is quite efficient. Java is a popular language for programming embed software.
    Python is also a very popular platform for fast development. Lots of developers are singing it praises (see xkcd for a caricature).
    Perl and Ruby are other scripting language that have some momentum too.

    All those language have way to use native C and C++ APIs. (SWIG is an example of tool to automate such C/C++-to-scripting-language-of-choice bridges)

    Had Apple gone for a C/C++ SDK, they would made it available to C and C++ developers (both are maybe the world's most popular language, even if not the most high level or efficient) but also for Java developers (very popular on embed platforms), for Perl/Python/Ruby (hello young motivate university students) for C# and other .NET language (hello microsoft drooldrones) LISP (yes (that even means (support (for it (in emacs))))) etc.

    By going for Obj-C Apple made their SDK available to Obj-C developers. All 2 of them.
    (and the third one who's motivated enough to learn Obj-C).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:foreign language bindings by anomaly256 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you've ever actually tried to build anything and run it on the iphone you'd know that you don't _have_ to use objective C to write iphone apps. It just makes it easier by providing frameworks for things like GUI and networking. I have a plethora of C/C++ apps compiled and running on mine just fine. Heck, I even have gcc and g++ _on_ my iphone.

    2. Re:foreign language bindings by shmlco · · Score: 1

      "By going for Obj-C Apple made their SDK available to Obj-C developers. All 2 of them."

      Yeah, that explains the 250,000 downloads of the SDK and the 25,000 PAID iPhone developer applications they received.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  42. Very Well Said by jamrock · · Score: 1

    Focussing on their hardware, whether it's the iMac or iPhone, is definitely missing the point. This guy definitely gets it.
    And so do you. Kudos. That was the best summary of Apple's business model that I've ever seen on Slashdot, and is the definitive reason why they won't license OS X for the foreseeable future [It's indeed possible that they might, if the iTunes Store becomes the major gateway to Web-based media, and their main source of revenue. Then as a strategic move they could even give it away for free in order to cement their platform dominance]. What's really interesting to me is how their emphasis on design ties both hardware and software together. Apple continues to demonstrate that design does indeed matter; it's not just about cramming in features. In fact, they've shown numerous times that they'll deliberately omit features from software and hardware, and only add them when they can do so in a way that not just makes sense to the average consumer, but which they also consider "attractive".
  43. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by gutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think the point he's trying to make is that he doesn't have to worry about any infrastructure. He doesn't need a hosting account, he doesn't have to create a license scheme, he doesn't have to worry that if he gets popular his server goes down. All he has to do is pay Apple the $99 and he's good to go. That actually seems like it might be worth the tradeoff of having to go through Apple.

    --
    Check out DRM-free movies at http://www.bside.com
  44. Re:Meta-summary: apple is still a software company by argent · · Score: 1

    This looks like sarcasm to me. Or at least it looks like it should be sarcasm.

    I guess it depends on how much you love or hate IOS, but people buy Cisco devices because they run IOS... not because they're green, look nice in a rack, and have 12 RJ45s and 128M of RAM.

  45. Re:Software upgrade = new hardware? by vallette · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Uh, you do realize that all but the new hardware features (GPS and 3G) will be available to iPhone 1.0 (and iPod Touch) users. You don't have to buy a new phone to upgrade to the new OS.

    And out of curiosity how do you know they could port new features back to older models? I'd guess it had as much to with hardware as anything. For instance, I suspect playing video on a first gen nano simply wasn't possible.

  46. Re:Meta-summary: apple is still a software company by argent · · Score: 1

    Even when Macs were generic-looking beige boxes that you couldn't tell at a glance from a Dell or HP, people were buying them for the software they ran, not the hardware. If Microsoft Windows had been available in 1983 when Microsoft started advertising it (yes, really), and Apple made a really nice computer running Windows, they wouldn't have been "in trouble" in the '90s, they'd have been "out of business" in the '80s... no matter how revolutionary the Banana 9000 was.

    I've got a T-Mobile touch-screen phone right now. With Pocket PC software in it, it sucks. If Apple had taken that hardware, painted it white, and written software for it... with or without a multi-touch screen... they would have had a product. If Apple designed an MP3 player without a click wheel, it would still be a great MP3 player... and, hey, they did, and it was, and I loved my iPod Shuffle until the battery died. :)

    It really is the software. The hardware is sizzle, the software is the steak.

  47. Re:I think you could still have Free Software apps by SilentTristero · · Score: 1
    again from TFA:

    Developers are required to register for a DRM license key, which costs $99 There is no freeware license. Unless I'm mistaken (which is quite possible!), that means every freeware project has to pony up $99 to get started.
  48. Re:Software upgrade = new hardware? by DwarfGoanna · · Score: 1

    Um.... LURK MOAR.

    --

    "You know why you do not see me styling wit my homies? Because I have no homies!!" -Mojo Jojo

  49. Riiiiight cowboy. by MacDork · · Score: 1

    Because today's programmers don't learn programming or engineering, but instead a language.

    Perhaps you should go into education since you seem to have all the answers.

    A real programmer should be able to program regardless of a language.

    Yeah! Real programmers never re-use old, battle tested code. They reinvent the wheel EVERY time no matter how tedious and time consuming that process is... Also, there is no chin behind RMS's beard, only another fist!

    Code re-use issues aside, most of us can do it, but that doesn't mean that learning an API happens instantaneously either. Learning Obj-C may be simple enough, but learning the Cocoa API and the dev tools, on the other hand, is not. Any monkey can turn the knob. Turning the knob is no problem... but you have to know which knob to turn, and *exactly* how far to turn it. Otherwise, you won't be whipping out much of an app.

    In fact they should be able to pick a language based on the problem at hand and not the other way around.

    They do: Problem-Need an income, now. Solution-Language and libraries I know, now.

    You're also overlooking another pretty major issue. If you want to develop for the iPhone, you MUST have an intel based Mac. So if you aren't already a Mac developer, you need to buy a new computer and learn a new OS in the midst of all that as well.

    Plus, if you want that app to do anything moderately complex with an internet connection... you're probably going to want to use Apple's WebObjects. Which means you're going to need to know Obj-C, Cocoa, Java, EOF, and it's likely you'll want to use Project Wonder too. That's two languages, and three large frameworks. And that isn't even considering the requirements for server administration of a WebObjects deployment. If you are a Windows/Linux developer, you're going to need new hardware and face quite a learning curve.

    So, I think maybe you're oversimplifying just a wee bit.

    1. Re:Riiiiight cowboy. by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should go into education since you seem to have all the answers.

      I've thought about it. The smallish school I went did a fine job teaching the theory where languages were just tools to apply it. But really, my post was more tongue and cheek at the GP post of learning obj-c is a hindrance.

      Yeah! Real programmers never re-use old, battle tested code. They reinvent the wheel EVERY time no matter how tedious and time consuming that process is...

      This has nothing to do with re-inventing the wheel. You simple use what tool is best for the job. If you're doing doing text processing on files then c/c++ is probably not the best choice of a language regardless of how well you know it. There are better languages suited to the job.

      Code re-use issues aside, most of us can do it, but that doesn't mean that learning an API happens instantaneously either. Learning Obj-C may be simple enough, but learning the Cocoa API and the dev tools, on the other hand, is not. Any monkey can turn the knob. Turning the knob is no problem... but you have to know which knob to turn, and *exactly* how far to turn it. Otherwise, you won't be whipping out much of an app.

      The GPP said obj-c and nothing about the frameworks, but you might have a good point if part of every developers daily job is just that...learning new frameworks. When you do AJAX are you still writing everything from scratch? How about .net, still using v.1? Continuously learning is part of our job as developers.

      They do: Problem-Need an income, now. Solution-Language and libraries I know, now.

      The libraries/frameworks you know now are most likely going to be useless in 5 years time. IIRC, cell phones outsell every other computing device over the entire world. It would seem to me that moving towards mobile development is the way to future proof your income. Now you can disagree that the iphone won't be one of the main players in the future, but learning to program for it is definitely not a waste of time from a financial standpoint b/c it will be a player.

      If you want to develop for the iPhone, you MUST have an intel based Mac.

      This part is somewhat bothersome, but it's hard to avoid when all the tools are OS X based. I'm not a WM developer, but can you write software for it with other platforms?
    2. Re:Riiiiight cowboy. by yabos · · Score: 1

      WebObjects is server technology not a client side application technology. For networking on the iPhone and OS X you can use BSD sockets or there are some objective-c wrappers around them if you don't want to do the raw C code yourself.

    3. Re:Riiiiight cowboy. by shmlco · · Score: 1

      "Plus, if you want that app to do anything moderately complex with an internet connection... you're probably going to want to use Apple's WebObjects."

      WebObjects is a server-side technology. It's pretty easy to do infomation requests from the iPhone to any server running PHP or Ruby or any other web language you care to name.

      "If you want to develop for the iPhone, you MUST have an intel based Mac."

      Boo hoo. If I want to do Symbian development I have to buy Windows.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    4. Re:Riiiiight cowboy. by MacDork · · Score: 1

      WebObjects is server technology not a client side application technology.

      Actually, it's both.

      For networking on the iPhone and OS X you can use BSD sockets or there are some objective-c wrappers around them if you don't want to do the raw C code yourself.

      And if you're doing something really simple, I'm sure that will work just fine for you.

  50. More disk space! by Larsrc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    All I want for my iPhone is enough disk space to do its regular stuff and have Wikipedia at the same time. Then it's the perfect gadget.

    -Lars

    1. Re:More disk space! by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
      Surely "the perfect gadget" is one that allows a user to customise it to whatever he/she needs on the basis that every user will have differing requirements - in which case, why would you choose a closed platform using a closed OS with a limited development environment?

      Conversely, an open platform is probably going to have a standard expansion slot in it that allows you to add pretty much all of the storage you need? And it's pretty certain you can get some nice free source code somewhere to compile stuff how you want it?

      Yep, by all means throw back at me the classic counter-attack that "Linux is not intuitive for new users" and I will sit here nodding my head. But the fact is, if you want something bad enough, then you should expect to have to do some work for it.

      My view of many Apple users is that they want it easy "out of the box" and if they like the stuff then good on them - but to me, "perfect gadget" and "closed platform" are diametric opposites because it needs to be open to be customizable as much as I want to be, even if it means I'm sometimes up till 2am fiddling with a config file.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    2. Re:More disk space! by Larsrc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As a long-time Linux user, I appreciate being able to tweak, but over time I've also come to like things that "just work". I've spent so much time tweaking window managers, for instance, fortunately the defaults on current window managers are very close to what I want.

      The interface on the iPhone is really delicious, more so than I've *ever* seen on anything open-source. It's all well and good to be able to tweak things, but on a small gadget, a well-thought-out interface can make the difference between another piece of uselessness and something that's helpful in your everyday life.

      No, I'm not happy about the closedness either, and I'm starting to get worried about how Apple uses proprietary things all over, but for a "secondary" computer, it's a price I'm willing to pay.

      -Lars

  51. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the hell should they wait, it hasn't hurt them at all

  52. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by Jhan · · Score: 2, Interesting
    [A poor hobby programmer with Apples' developer plan] If I charge $10, I get to keep $7. If 14 people in the world buy it, I've broken even.
    Yikes - yes, let's keep you away from the business side of the house.

    Equally yikes - yes, let's keep you away from the OSS developers side of the house. This is about not losing money just because of wanting to play around with the platform.

    You forgot to include the value of your time to develop the application,

    This kind of app (the <=$100 expected return one) is made for fun, as a hobby.

    If you were going on a holiday in the Bahamas with your family and you somehow managed to offload some ancient Trolls pencil sharpeners (or whatever) that paid for the flight and hotel, would you argue that the trip was a loss because it didn't pay for time lost at work?

    any time it might take to market it

    I won't, so no cost

    (e.g., even if it's just posting to Slashdot),

    OK, but again that's in the fun basket, not in the work one.

    any support costs,

    I will support not support it at all, or only at my leisure

    taxes, etc.

    Good point. I will report revenue and pay taxes and so will have to sell 20 copies instead of 14. Many won't since this whole scheme seems to be a tax-evasion mechanism, at least for non-American developers.

    Also, if 10K people might buy your app for their iPhone, there might be 100K people who might buy it if had a wider cell phone base, or 1000K people who might buy it if it was available for PCs, etc., so you might be chasing a tiny "profit pool" anyway if you only target the iPhone.

    If a million people want a better app based on this little thing I wrote, I would expect one of two things to happen

    1. Many OSS developers join (preferred)
    2. $BIG_COMPANY buys source code from me for $X million dollars. Also OK.
    --

    I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.

  53. Strong Bad says... by elcid73 · · Score: 1

    I'm buying you a pizza.

  54. So? by JSBiff · · Score: 2

    A one time fee of $99 isn't much money. I'm sure an open source project could come up with $99 somewhere. After all, if you are going to put thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars worth of developer hours into developing the project, what's $99? Developers also sometimes pay money for domain names (of course, that's more like $10, but it's still spending money to start your free software project). Developers pay for internet access. Web hosting sometimes. They typically pay for the computers they use to do development on, and for the electricity to run those computers. Remember, Free Software is Free, not free. Also, if the application idea you have is interesting, I bet you could get someone else to donate the $99 to get a key if you asked nicely in an appropriate forum, mailing list, etc. Someone who was interested in seeing such a Free Software application developed, but who wasn't interested in developing it themselves.

          Also, potentially multiple projects could share a key. The article also stated that you could sign as many applications as you wanted with that key, so organizations like Apache Foundation which sponsor dozens of projects can use a single key.

          In any case, an argument that you don't want to pay $99 dollars is not an argument that you cannot develop Free Software for the iPhone. Granted, it would be nice of Apple if they were to offer free or very cheap keys for Free Software projects (after all, they've benefited tremendously by using a LOT of Free Software, such as BSD, khtml/webkit, Samba, Apache, GCC, etc), but my point is, I haven't yet seen a good reason given why it would be particularly difficult to do Free Software for the iPhone?

    1. Re:So? by SilentTristero · · Score: 1

      Fair enough. I'm thinking of all those tremendously useful little free utilities you can get for WM and Palm; seems like paying up front before you even really get started is a barrier to entry. But as you say, $99 isn't really that much if it's a serious project.

    2. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A one time fee of $99 isn't much money. I'm sure an open source project could come up with $99 somewhere. After all, if you are going to put thousands, or tens of thousands of dollars worth of developer hours into developing the project, what's $99?
      I think that's a bit simplistic. It's true that developers donate time that worths thousands of dollars, but not all this time can be monetized to generate income. For example, if your time is worth $50/hr, and you spend 20 hrs of your own time to write an open source app for managing photos, that worths $1000. However, what you really are doing is having fun on your own spare time that you'd otherwise waste watching TV or playing games. If you don't write your app, that does not mean you'll work somewhere else at $50/hr. That's to say, your contribution is valuable, but it does not really cost you money out of your bank account. OTOH, paying $99 for a certificate actually cost you hard cash. Your bank account will drop by $99. A starving student can donate time, but not $99 cash.

      I suspect that open source developers will find a creative solution to this. AFAICT, Apple has not set any condition on who can get this certificate and if this certificate can be collectively used. The certificate only make sure that someone with a known identity can be held responsible. Perhaps groups like sourceforge can pay $99 for a certificate and any open source app submitted to sourceforge can be signed with it. Thus, there is a chain of responsibility. Apple can identify sourceforge for problems with the app and in turn, sourceforge can identify who put in nasty bits.
  55. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

    See, here's the thing: there's a huge fucking difference between having this service be available, and having it be mandatory. Having it available is good; I agree that it would be very convenient for small proprietary developers. Having it mandatory is bad, because it locks out Free Software and hobbyists.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  56. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by GleeBot · · Score: 1

    The iPhone is such a small player in the cell phone market that I'd rather just handle it through optimized web sites and web services than building some localized app that will break with iPhone 3.0 software. That "small player" already has the #2 spot in the smart phone market, behind RIM's Blackberry, and has caused a wide swathe of Web sites to design themselves to be iPhone-compatible.

    I'm no iPhone fan boy (all I ever want a phone for is to make and receive calls), but I think you're seriously underestimating the impact the iPhone is having on the market. It's not all just hype.
  57. Re:A first! A useful summary?!? by amohat · · Score: 1

    No, my friend, it's the best slashdot intro EVAR!

    Seriously. If only other articles intro'd by telling you this is all crap, intended only for people who who nothing about anything.

    Of course, um, that's what a good blog is for, to ONLY put up the best of the best. So what does that make slashdot?

  58. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 1

    You do have a point about taxes and other expenses.

    But considering that an experienced Cocoa developer can easily build a high-quality app in a single afternoon (Cocoa is not C++ or Java), and that Apple will be handling distribution and hosting, and that the store will most likely have some kind of rating system that will developers leverage word-of-mouth, doing iPhone applications should still be lucrative for experienced mac devs who are good at crafting good user experiences.

    --
    Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
  59. Re:Meta-summary: apple is still a software company by amohat · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Actually, Apple is talking about designing their own chips, to reverse that trend: (prolly be posted tomorrow!)

    http://www.appleinsider.com/print.php?id=4190

    The market potential for proprietary mobile processor designs from chip makers like Samsung Electronics and Intel Corp. were dealt a considerable blow earlier this week when Apple chief executive Steve Jobs revealed that his company will start designing its own breed of chips to power the next-generation of Multi-Touch devices that won't be available to rivals.

    South Korea-based Samsung has long been central to Apple's handheld efforts (1, 2, 3), supplying the primary SoCs -- or system-on-chips -- for everything from the iPod nano to the iPhone. Meanwhile, Intel has been in the running to assert its Atom processors at heart of a larger iPhone-like Multi-Touch internet tablet that's also under development at the Cupertino-based electronics maker, and was at one time believed to have sealed the deal.

    Unfortunately for the two industry heavyweights, Apple appears to have other plans to further innovation around its Multi-Touch platform that will reduce its reliance on chip designs conceived largely by third parties. In an interview following his keynote address at the Worldwide Developers Conference on Monday, Jobs told the New York Times' John Markoff that his firm's recent $278 million acquisition of a small fabless semiconductor company called P.A. Semi was an investment in the future of its handheld products.

    "PA Semi is going to do system-on-chips for iPhones and iPods," he said, ending speculation as to the precise motives behind the April buyout. The initial uncertainty stemmed from the fact that PA Semi was best know for chips based on IBM's Power technology, an architecture that Apple abandoned two years ago when it moved its Mac line of personal computers to Intel's architecture.

    But as Jobs explained to the Wall Street Journal two months ago, Apple has always been integral in the design of chips used in iPhones and iPods even though they were developed by third parties like Samsung. It was to this end that the value in PA Semi emerged, not for its existing technologies but for its expertise in designing embedded processors to do almost anything the iPhone maker wants them to do.

    For Apple, the advantages of bringing PA Semi in-house are many. In particular, it will afford the company to innovate in a way going forward that will differentiate its handheld products from a growing array of competitive devices that will be left to rely on technologies available to the broader industry. It will also allow the company, which is synonymous with secrecy, to keep a tighter lid on its intellectual property and future product plans.

    Still, there's hope for chip makers like Samsung and Intel in that that Apple will still need to rely on a third party to manufacture the chips it develops on its own, given that PA Semi doesn't own a fabrication facility. It's also possible that the PA Semi team could build onto chip designs initially conceived by one of the semiconductor giants. That's of course assuming Jobs and Co. don't have an even bigger plan brewing to somehow serve as its own SoC manufacturer.


    Seems like a good idea, to be able to separate from the herd. I think Apple has the resources to do it, too, what with their latest, greatest marketshare-gobbling product.
  60. grep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you might try man metaphor ;)

    1. Re:grep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $ man metaphor
      No manual entry for metaphor

  61. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "the [Mac] hardware just isn't that good."

    My Macbook Pro is way better, hardware wise, than my friggen work issued Dell laptop. But, of course, that is MHO. While people attach USB keyboard lights, USB cams and USB mouse bluetooth receivers to their Dell laptops, I enjoy that being built-in a nice aluminum case that automatically sleeps soon as I close the lid.

  62. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you not read that Free Software is still going to be free on the service. The 99$ goes to QA-ing the software product to ensure it plays well with others, mostly bug free and does not contain walware.

  63. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Translation: the iPhone was rushed to market before it was ready, and instead of getting developers on board before the release to make sure it was worth releasing, Apple took a gigantic shit on them. Damn, you really have it in for Apple.

    Another possibility is that Apple had a good product with compelling features. They could add more features (the SDK and App Store) and delay the product for another year, or release a good product when they did, and plan to release an updated product later.

    Also, I know no Apple user who critizise other companies for releasing products, and then improving those products later. You can always delay for new features, but at some point you have to ship.

    Lighten up...
  64. Re:Software upgrade = new hardware? by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
    Since when did software upgrades mean buying new hardware?

    Just about every time Microsoft releases a new version of Windows.

    And before the Apple fanbois start raining positive mod points down on me for the anti-MS attack, Apple have yet to make anything good, cheap or open enough for me to want to even consider handing over money for it.

    --
    Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
  65. Where do I find this hype thing? by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

    I've seen a couple of mentions on /. and reddit that there is a new iPhone and I went to the Apple web site to confirm this. Hype makes me think of people running around breathless telling me I just gotta buy it if I want my life to be complete. I don't recall anyone doing this to me. So clearly I'm missing out. So where do I find this hype thing that everyone is talking about? And while you're at it, when I feel like more, where do I find the overhype thing that I've seen a few people talk about?

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  66. Re:Meta-summary: apple is still a software company by SideshowBob · · Score: 1

    That's really not true at all.

    Apple is a systems company. It's the whole package, which includes the hardware and software, that Apple sells. When Apple got into this business that was the norm. You got your OS and most of your applications from the same vendor that sold you the hardware. And they were all designed to work together.

    It wasn't until Compaq reverse engineered IBM's BIOS and Microsoft started selling DOS to the cloners that changed all that.

  67. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by nxtw · · Score: 1

    And if you're a PC developer, then you can be independent without having to go through anyone full stop. It's a crying shame, and a testament to the egregious and undue influence the telecom industry has over our government, that the cell phone market isn't like that too. This kind of shit -- that is, requiring apps to have the "blessing" of the device manufacturer or service provider to work -- ought to be illegal!


    Apple's iPhone is the only smartphone that is so restrictive - and out of the current mass market smartphones/PDAs, Windows Mobile seems to be the most free (as in freedom to run what you want.) WM lets you do just about anything short of using certain restricted OS functions (think replacing OS files or overwriting the bootloader.) No application signature is required - the signature requirements can be disabled or you can install your own root certificate. Of course, the native API is the Win32-like Windows CE and the primary development tool, Visual Studio, costs money. (You should be able to write software without it - the SDK is freely downloadable but it requires Visual Studio to install the normal way.) And WM lets you multitask.

    All recent Symbian devices do require application signing, although Symbian signs applications free for developers (each application has to be signed for the specific device it will run on.)
  68. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by PoorClyde · · Score: 1

    What about A2DP?!
    The iPod Touch is a music player (so's the iPhone, kinda, right?).
    Even my LG phone can talk to Bluetooth speakers.

  69. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by hacker · · Score: 1

    This kind of shit -- that is, requiring apps to have the "blessing" of the device manufacturer or service provider to work -- ought to be illegal!

    Even more important, is that they've now tied the PHONE to a specific version of a specific application running on a specific desktop operating system (Windows or Mac).

    Now the iPhone requires that you OWN a computer, to be able to use it, even as just a phone. You literally can't even use it as a plain old phone or a plain old mp3 player, without connecting it through iTunes to the web.

    Absolutely ridiculous, and it will burn a lot of people who quite literally do not have computers.

  70. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by nxtw · · Score: 1

    That's $99 for permission to run your own software on your own device and to distribute applications to others. That's $99 you don't have to pay to run software on Windows Mobile devices. Sure, Apple's distribution method is nice, but for developers, it is not Free (as in Freedom) or free (as in cost). You have to pay Apple to run your own software on the device you paid for, and if you want to distribute your software to people who aren't also paid iPhone developers, you have to go through Apple... who could choose not to distribute it.

    Without paying the $99 cost of admission, you can't run your software on a real iPhone without hacking it (although you can run software on the iPhone simulator, which basically runs the iPhone environment compiled for x86.)

    Of course, you'd probably want Visual Studio if you did enough Windows Mobile development, but there is a gcc environment available. And a Visual Studio license won't be revoked if you do things that the carrier or device manufacturer don't like.

  71. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by nxtw · · Score: 1

    Microsoft has a similar model going with MSDN and lesser licenses and so do thousands of other vendors with a proprietary platform and a paid SDK/API/dev environment.


    You can run unsigned/self-signed code on Windows Mobile, which could be made with a free compiler if you like. With the iPhone, you have to pay to run your own software on your own device (unless you resort to hacking it.)

    If you make an open source program for the iPhone and distribute it through Apple, users can't take that source and run their own modified version unless they are also reigstered iPhone developers or have hacked their phone.
  72. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 1

    Keep in mind Apple is also trying to filter out crapware so that the AppStore doesn't gain a reputation for well... crapware.

    The $99 fee makes sure only dedicated, customer focused, developers step forward instead of "scratch my own itch, fuck you if it doesn't serve your interests" free software developers.

    --
    Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
  73. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I've done my share of resedit hacking"

    I guess that makes you a hardware expert alright.

    "It really points to broad-based incompetence"

    "Apple has lost any ability they once had in this area."

    So Apple is broadly incompetent yet they lost the ability they once had. Uh huh. /yawn at the drivel

  74. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by Sentry21 · · Score: 1

    Even at their lowest point, Apple had about four billion dollars in the bank, and almost no outstanding debt. When Jobs came back, their balance started climbing rapidly, and has ever since.

  75. its still just hype by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm pretty sure the hype is still about apps on a screen the size of two postage stamps. there is a reason people have 22" widescreens on their desks.

  76. iPhone is like BREW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "An iPhone user should be able to opt into installing and running unsigned applications, a capability offered by all competing mobile platforms."

    That's not entirely true. BREW-enabled phones (used notably by Verizon Wireless) can only install signed applications. To get a BREW developer's cert costs something like $499 and the only way to install BREW apps are OTA (over-the-air)... just like iPhone.

  77. Linux's wide variety is a strength, not a weakness by sgtrock · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think you're missing the point of FOSS. The whole point is to allow people to scratch their own itch. Naturally, that's going to take them in different directions. Naturally, that also means that UI designers are going to go down different roads. Maybe an analogy will help explain what I mean.

    There's an old carpenter's saying that has been adopted by us geeks that you may have heard: "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Well, I don't want just a hammer. I want a full toolbox, the pegboard full of specialized tools behind the workbench, all the power tools in the cabinet to the left, and the floor full of standalone workstation tools (lathes, bandsaws, table saws, etc.) for when I want to do some really heavy work. I don't expect my woodworking tools to all look and act alike. Why should I expect my computer tools to do so when they do such different jobs?

    I should probably note here that I seem to be a rarity in that I really don't like OS/X's UI. It is missing features that I regard as basic requirements after years of using Linux. While not exhaustive, my list of things that I think it's missing include true maximized windows, multiple workspaces, the ability to having more than one app displaying by default, etc. OS/X showcased 'features' that I REALLY hate are things like the single menu bar at the top of the screen instead of letting each app display its own menu as part of the window, that incredibly annoying app dock at the bottom, and the very thing that you like most about it; the lack of flexibility in UI.

    That's not to say either of us is right or wrong about UI choices, btw. What works for you doesn't work for me and vice versa. It's just that in my view, OS/X's major fault is that it assumes that everyone wants to work the way that their UI designers have laid things out. It thinks all anyone wants is a hammer and not a full toolbox.

    In actuality, the incredible flexibility of the FOSS development model and therefore Linux is a strength, not a weakness. It is why you see Linux used for everything from the smallest embedded device all the way up to the largest supercomputers and everything in between. No other OS out there combines that flexibility (the *BSDs can actually exceed it depending on how you measure) with its level of popularity. At this point in time, no other OS out there has the breadth and depth of available applications. Again, you can argue case by case that specific Linux apps or classes of apps don't measure up to counterparts available on other platforms. Taken as a whole, however, it's clear that no other OS can boast as broad a range of successful applications.

    In sum, my contention is that the very thing that you decry, the broad range of UI tools and interfaces, is what will benefit Linux on the desktop the most. The truly successful UI stuff will continue gain popularity and see more widespread use as time goes by. The less successful ones will collect a smaller number of adherents. Some will only see use in niches. Others will simply fade away over time.

    In all of this, who loses? Certainly not the developer community at large, although some number of them will inevitably see their personal favorites wither and die. The developer community will be much larger than it would be if you forced everyone to follow a single model. (assuming you could force a bunch of FOSS developers down a single path. Talk about herding cats!)

    Contrary to what you seem to believe, I don't think the users will be negatively affected, either. We are by nature an extremely adaptable species. You may find this hard to believe, but people have been adapting to new UIs ever since Ogg first tied a rock to a stick that Mog had been using to hit Gog over the head. It probably took Mog at most two tries to figure out which end was the UI and which was the business end of his new club. :)

  78. Re:Come on Taco, this is neither interesting nor n by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

    So the fact that your MBP is better than your work-issued Dell means that it's superior to all other notebooks on the market?

  79. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    Controlling what's available from the "AppStore" is one thing, but where Apple crosses the line is that it forces the AppStore to be the only method by which users are allowed to load apps on the device. It's entirely unreasonable that I would be disallowed, from, for example, downloading an app from Sourceforge, compiling it myself, copying the .app bundle to the iPhone, and running it.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  80. Re:A first! A useful summary?!? by hotfireball · · Score: 1

    Kostya, no iTelephone in Russia, "k sozhaleniyu"... :-)

  81. Snow Leopard Stalking by deanston · · Score: 1

    I'd like to point out Apple may very well become the maker of the most popular UNIX powered smartphone. Not Nokia. Not Docomo. Not RIM. Not Palm. But Apple. If iPhones reach the same popularity as iPods, that will be more people using UNIX as a personal device platform than ever. And you know what? Those OS X consumers, including many like my artist friend or the business execs that have never opened up a terminal, don't even care. That is not a bad way to popularize UNIX and Linux. Really, until Nokia or Samsung have enough receipts to show people will actually sustain Android phone sales, OS X iPhone is the only thing that stands in the way of WinMo saturating the mobile market (God forbid) similar to their PC desktop proliferation. Will there be business software enough on Android to attract corporate IT to avoid the stigma associated with the iPhone?

    Jobs is nothing if not smart and relentless. He is usually 3 moves ahead of his competitors and they don't even know it. Who knew a rare UNIX flavor eventually will power the resurrection of a computer company? MS gets stood up at the altar by Yahoo with a $40B dowry offering, and Apple spent a few mil to acquire PA Semi and threatens to push the whole mobile hardware competition up a notch (Google should hope people will jailbreak future iPhones to install Android and make it really shine). That is also a good thing for consumers.

    You can call them control freaks. Pricey. Unoriginal. But Jobs is also a perfectionist freak with his products. That is also a good thing for users. When was the last time you've accused MS or other tech companies as overly perfectionist?

    Lots of people are pronouncing the iPhone 3G as no big deal. Sure, look at it by itself, the iPhone may never surpass Blackberry shares, or sell as many units as Nokia handsets, but think about all the announcements together - the symbolic 3 legged stool. MobileMe+iPhone is the first step in giving people their personal cloud wherever they are in the most integrated matter (not simply a few apps or just a web browser entry form). Also I'm surprised not finding more discussions toward the next version of OS X with the sole aim at maximizing multi-core computing. Apple may not have as many engineers as MS, Google, or Intel, but I'm sure they are just as proud to want to be the ones that come up with the best future system. And all that raw power just for the desktop? For what, to run Adobe's bloated software faster? Hmmm, I wonder if the strategic move away from joining Google cloud is to eventually set up Apple's own server farms, powered by OS X, but keeping it mums for now just as Google is Apple-like secretive about its data centers technology. I know, I know, OS X Serve is supposedly dead. But so was the Newton. Think of all the computationally intensive media that needs to be served out in the decade ahead - movies, games, hi-def. Apple does not own any pipes (yet) but they sure can ensure the performance on both ends (throwing AppleTV in the mix). Maybe even host some of the content FOR the dreaded music and movie industry? Others may have one or two prongs but not the whole trifecta.

    So the 3 prongs prop each other up. And did people who watched the keynote noticed that Vista runs best on a Mac? Apple is even going to host Exchange servers on Mobile Me. Forget Yahoo. Imagine if Apple and Microsoft put aside their differences and join forces on the business cloud. MS can provide Mac versions of all their business software. Apple platforms will run all the MS+nework apps and the cloud hosting MS servers. All of a sudden Google may have some real competition. Amazon? Get outta here. Of course that will never happen.

    No I'm not A-fanboy. This musing is written on a PC in Google Docs. But yeah, I'm gonna get an iPhone 3G. I can even write it off for work since it's got VPN and GPS. Hell, just gassing up my truck and going for movies and fancy dinner and drinks would cost close to $200 nowadays.

  82. Meta-refutation:apple's still fucking both ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a hardware and software company. Just imagine apple selling OS X bundled with turd-brown, crappy, cheaply manufactured plastic laptops. I don't think that would fly with apple's customer base.

  83. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    jailbreak

  84. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    Jailbreak is not a solution because I shouldn't have to crack my own damn device just to run my own damn software on it!

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  85. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by shilly · · Score: 1

    Don't be so fuckin' dumb. Apple makes devices that suit the needs of consumers, not techies. The rules reflect this, ie they make it easy for consumers to choose software they know won't break their phone, at a (fairly nominal) cost to the developer. If you don't like the rules, don't buy the device.

  86. Re:Apple's grand strategy? Lock-in. by ashpool7 · · Score: 1

    No, actually the $99 is to put a leash on developers, limiting them to developing applications that only do what Apple wants them to do. The SDKs for the Macintosh are free with the exact same IDE you use for the iPhone SDK.

    The iPhone is apparently not a computer, because on Real Computers, developers aren't prohibited and punished for developing "bad" applications, require permission from the OS vendor to make a program, and generally aren't treated like thieves & vandals.

    Just because everybody else charges stupid amounts for handheld SDKs, software signing, and other crap doesn't mean it's the be-all-end-all to charge less. Maybe they should just not have such restrictive development rules in the first place.

    This crap about "what if people abuse the phone network" is just that. The iPod Touch has the exact same SDK and is still restricted. There's no potential for abuse there. If people abuse the network, cut off their access. That's the network's problem. "Oh no it will get viruses".... yeah, about as much as the Mac does now. Sheesh, grow up. Software signing of applications only empowers the OS vendor to make you bend to their will. It has only a little to do with virus and malware protection.

  87. Here's some creative ideas. . . by JSBiff · · Score: 1

    Now, again, I'd like to preface this with, I think it would be a good thing if Apple came up with cheaper or free keys for Free Software, since they've been the beneficiary of a lot of great Free Software, but if they don't do that, I still think $99 isn't *much* of a barrier. . .

    If you are a student, either join a computer science student organization on campus, or if there isn't one, form one (for example, at the University of Cincinnati, OH, where I'm currently studying, there is a group call LaRC - the Lab for Recreational Computing, which is a bunch of CompSci geeks who hang out and develop software [mostly entertainment software, i believe]). Such organizations can typically petition some type of "Student Activities Board" or other University entity for budget money to buy equipment, journal subscriptions, pay for speakers and events, etc. I suspect that if such an organization wanted to get an Apple Developer Key to publish student submissions, they could get some money from the University.

    As for adults, people spend lots of money on their hobbies - digital cameras, bicycles, skis, boats, fishing equipment, golf clubs, etc, any of which could cost hundreds or *thousands* of dollars. Again, $99 isn't much, and you don't need to have one of those keys to just GET STARTED. As others have said, the article stated that you could get keys, I think for free, which allow limited private deployement. Which, when you are first starting the project, is enough to let you get it on your own iPhone for testing purposes, and to roll it out to a few other developers or testers, to start getting a small community together. Surely, by the time you have 50 or 80 people interested in the project, you could get someone or multiple someones to donate the money ( 10 people donating 10 bucks, for example).

  88. One additional comment by JSBiff · · Score: 1

    "Ye have not, because ye ask not"

    I truly think that if anyone out there begins developing an application, and makes enough progress to at least have some sort of proof-of-concept build of the app, and then simply *asks* for someone to help them buy an Apple Developer Key, they'd not find it that difficult to come up with the needed funds. I really think you *would* be able to find people - I suspect there are, in the US, Canada, and Europe, hundreds of thousands of Free Software users (I'm not counting the millions who use Free Software, but don't really know that they are, like most Apple users *grin*, and some Linux users), and if your app interests a tiny percentage of that group, there's probably someone who would gladly help out your project.

    If you can't get a private sponsor, maybe you could get a company to sponsor you - like a website which could 'host' your project and put up ads on your project page, so that every time someone went to look for info about your app, they'd see the ad.

    I agree that open source developers will find creative solutions (plural, more than one) for this problem. Sharing a key is one possible solution, but ultimately, whoever registers the key with Apple is going to be held responsible if, e.g. any malware/virus/rootkit/etc is found in software signed by that key, so I think you wouldn't see something as open as, "upload your software to this server to get it signed". If I were signing something, I'd want to, at the minimum, either directly review the code to check for problems, or have someone I trust completely, review the code, which limits the number of projects, I think, which can be signed by a single person/key.