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Geohashing Meets an Angry Rancher With Firearms
katicli writes "Geohashing, an obscure xkcd pastime which involves going to random coordinates generated by md5 hashing, the date, and the opening status of the stock market, appears to have just gotten far more interesting. The official wiki reports a warning for other geohashers intending to go to the spot designated for June 14th in the San Francisco area, as several avid fans of xkcd were met by an angry rancher and firearms."
My first reaction is that the geohashing folks overreacted. I might be a little concerned and take photos of license plates if a bunch of people suddenly showed up on my property somewhere out in the boonies.
As to the firearms, were they scared at the mere presence of firearms or did the ranchers actually point them at anyone? If they simply saw the guns in the truck, what possibly could have scared them? Ooooh, guns.... scary.
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http://wiki.xkcd.com/geohashing/Known_Issues
"If someone says you are trespassing, it is probably best to heed them and turn back. Shotguns are a good indicator of trouble. See Template:Disclaimer."
Sounds like that other thing where you use GPS and leave a bowl with stuff in it.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
If these people were scared by the mere presence of a few guns, this seriously worries me about the future of the 2nd amendment. I guess there is solace to be taken in knowing that the people who would read that comic and go to that place aren't a very good representative set of the people though.
Still it worries me.
Too many people wigging out nowadays with the "unattended package" scares to geocache anymore. If you go out in the woods and leave something hidden, or interact with something hidden, and someone sees you, too great of odds that they will call the bomb squad or DNR or something like that.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Get off my lawn!
On the other side of the pond we would regard anyone waving a gun around as very scary and wonder if he was a lunatic. In the UK we keep guns under strict control and at places like licensed competitive rifle ranges. Yes: farmers do have them, but they keep them out of sight. We also have fewer gun related incidents, although an illegal gun culture is unfortunately growing.
WOW! a bunch of people from San Francisco ventured out in to the real world and found that people have strange ideas like property rights and the right to bear arms. I'm glad they got an education.
Profanity - The sign of a small mind trying to express itself.
"I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
Hey, your irrational fear of firearms is showing. RTFA. There was no waving of anything. It says they were in plain view in his truck. In other words, he had a gun rack... Oh no. He had a gun rack with guns on it. RUN TO THE HILLS!
Indeed. Guns are tools, and ranchers have ample use for them such as killing critters (feral dogs, etc) that threaten their livestock. Fuel and equipment thieves are another good reason for ranchers to be armed. Diesel theft from irrigation pumps can threaten their ability to make a living, and thieves may be armed. In isolated areas the police can't be there on the spot to help.
Remember kids:
If it isn't your land and you don't have permission to be there, stay the hell off. There is plenty of public land to play silly games on.
Country folk are often very good at looking out for their neighbors. If you don't belong there, expect to be checked out. I'd be delighted to have a neighbor who would observe and photograph any questionable visitors. Being visibly armed deters violence, and cameras preserve potential evidence.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Why would somebody owning a gun be "scary" or "a lunatic"? I can understand the fear of guns empowering criminals (even if I don't agree with the conclusions some reach on that basis) but guns in the hands of the good guys should probably be reassuring, not alarming.
how is that rash of knife crime coming out? I've noticed a lot more stories about stabbings on the Beeb.
One advantage of knives is that they're easier to aim. I have yet to hear a story about a drive-by knifing in which the culprit missed his target but accidentally killed someone who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
If someone really wants to kill someone else, it's very hard to stop him. But getting them to use knives instead of guns at least cuts down on the collateral damage.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
On our side of the pond we hear that the illegal gun culture has been huge for years. One of our celebs moved over there like 10 years ago, kept having people walk into her house with guns to rob her (note: if it happens once or twice a year to the same person, it's considered chronic and excessive here; I don't know if she got hit up a couple times or if they kept showing up every month or so or daily or what), got real bitchy about it.
Near as I can tell, the news is propaganda'd over there to suppress reports on gun crimes. Our local news over here used to emphasize every time someone showed up anywhere (private house) or got shot at with a gun, unless a gun was used by an ordinary citizen to correct the situation (i.e. remove a crazy shooter trying to gun down as many kids as he can... by shooting him a half hour before the cops show up). They don't like talking about heroes wielding weapons, only villains. We had a few minor incidents a year but the overall impression of stuff like that hitting the news every month or so is that it's happening everywhere, all the time, to everyone just because it seems "normal" with all the reporting and you know it shouldn't be a "normal" occurrence.
As far as I can tell our rape rate here is massive. I know too many people who got raped (like, almost every girl I know?). In general this isn't considered a problem in this country; most girls simply don't talk about it, a lot of girls haven't gotten raped, but a lot have. Go outside, you don't see rapists everywhere or hear about this horrible rape culture; yet you're living in it and oblivious. Over there you might have the same sort of issue with guns-- hasn't happened to you or most/any people you know, but it's still a significant problem compared to other places. It's really hard to tell.
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So a bunch of citiots tried to go onto private property without permission to have a party and got warned off. Why is this news?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I dunno why people always think a fear of firearms is irrational, it is a device made for the sole purpose of killing or wounding a living creature, it does so in an instant with the twitch of a finger. couple that with the general fact that people are idiots (the geohashers in this case seemed to be the idiots, but it's a fair general rule to live by, unless proven otherwise: people are idiots.). I'm afraid of firearms, I'd rather they never be anywhere near me. I'm not one to advocate that they all be taken away either because unfortunately the cat is out of the bag there, people have guns and getting them away from criminals AND legitimate owners would be pretty much impossible now.
Anyways, yeah they overreacted to someone just having guns in their truck, but I don't think being afraid of or uncomfortable around guns is all that irrational.
That is absolutely made up. Most firearm incidents are not unintended. You simply don't here about 99.99% of the gun incidents because they don't get reported. Why? Because someone picked up their gun, and showed it to an aggressor, thus ending the conflict before it ever becomes violent.
Here is a little hint for you. Most humans are far more likely to enter a physical conflict that they believe they are sure to win. As soon as someone sees a gun, they are no longer sure they are going to win, and thus are far less likely to continue the aggression.
Actually, it is a device made for the sole purpose of propelling a projectile to really fast speeds. Any application of this function is the responsibility of the individual user.
It always amuses me that the slashdot crowd will defend some technology (e.g. vulnerability detection software, p2p, etc) and claim that the individual is responsible for the use, but then say things like what you've said.
By the way, bittorrent is made for the sole purpose of unauthorized distribution of copyrighted works. (see how that sounds? now reread what you wrote)
I guess we only believe in individual responsibility here when it fits our agenda.
That's real damn close to where I live. I've been up in that area on numerous occasions. In fact, I took some riding lessons at a ranch up there. My guess, the rancher has had some problems with teenagers harassing his herd. Teenagers do stupid things, like chase the steer around for the fun of it. There has also been the rare occasion of steer and horse thefts. Just a little information. A rancher with a shotgun is as common as a rancher with a nose on his face. Nothing to get excited about.
-- Will program for bandwidth
Ranchers usually don't carry guns with the intention of chasing off humans. The guns were more likely there to chase of coyotes, or to help keep down the jack rabbit population. Or because the guy's also a hunter and just didn't bother to take the guns out of the pickup before making effort to call the cops on the trespassing yahoos.
The really sad thing is. I grew up in an area where farming and ranching is the primary business. And if these idiots had taken the time to walk up to the ranchers house, explain why they were there and ask permission, they probably would have been welcomed. Or they might have been told pertinent reasons why they should go there. I don't go through neighbors fields just in case they have a mean bull in the herd or a territorial dog.
Removing knives from the hands of Brits will also cut down on the number of crimes committed in the kitchen.
My apologies to our British friends, this was a cheap shot at your cooking which has admittedly improved.
Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
Bad example - bittorrent *was* - the creator admitted it publicly.
Yes and the purpose of a gun is to kill. Your definition is like saying 'the purpose of a car is to rotate wheels at a specific speed'. It's meaningless.
You're absolutely right, but I'd say it's less a matter of fundamental hypocrisy as it is one of fear. And that's mostly from unfamiliarity ... people are afraid of the unknown. We're pretty much hardwired for that, and in this case I think the government does us a disservice by discouraging people from owning firearms or learning how to use them properly. I'd rather have someone who knows what he's doing with a gun holding one on me, rather than someone who's never fired one before and is terrified of it. That applies as much to criminals as it does to us law-abiding types.
.44 Magnum. If everyone carried a gun, but only a few drove automobiles, we'd all be irrationally afraid of cars.
It's a machine people. Yes, it's one that requires some knowledge and self-discipline to own and use safely, but that's all it is. Would that We the People spent as much time bitching about the poorly-trained drivers we have in this country as we do about gun owners. The untold millions of four-wheeled sociopaths on the road today are responsible for a hell of a lot more death, destruction and general mayhem than all gun owners combined. But that's okay, you see, because cars are technology that we all find comfortable and familiar, in spite of the fact that a car is just as much of a weapon as a
Personally, I'm far more concerned about being killed on the way to work by some lobeless, cell-phone-wielding, SUV-driving thimblebrain than I am about being shot. If the Feds really (I'm mean, really) want to make our lives safer, they should force the states to implement some serious training requirements for obtaining a driver's license. That should mean a CV (Commercial Vehicle) license for anyone that wants to drive a big SUV. Do that, and leave gun owners alone, and they would save a lot more lives each year.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
It doesn't seem to mention an encounter with the owner of the vehicles/guns, though. Perhaps because they apparently wet themselves and fled at the sight of the gunrack in the pickup (where my family lives, gunracks in pickups are so much a part of life that the only time you notice them is when the pickup does NOT have one)/
I do, however, agree with this statement by one of the geohashers - "in the future, we should respect property owners". A lot of trouble can be avoided by following that guideline.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
It took a few moments to sink in. "In the San Francisco area" ... with guns mounted on trucks? Why, unless people are using one of those really broad definitions of San Francisco, that could be nowhere else but ... yup. Upon checking the address on Google Maps, it turns out to be none other than San Ramon, California -- about 15 minutes from where I grew up.
I know what you guys are thinking. "A bunch of uptight yuppies from San Francisco got in their cars and drove out to the wild wilderness and got a taste of the real world..." Yeah, right -- if by that you mean "took a pleasant drive out among the trees along the curves of Crow Canyon Road," just off the 580 Freeway kinda wilderness. Maybe they took the long way back and stopped off at Stoneridge Mall on their way home.
News flash for ya, folks. The exact location where these folks went is out a long, undeveloped road, sure. But San Ramon is a suburb, people. Yeah, if you're out there you'll find that 80 percent of the people are white. But that's not "white trash missin teeth an' drinkin moonshine" white, that's "53 percent of the people in this town are college educated and 17 percent have graduate degrees" white. It's "48 percent of the families in this town have median incomes higher than $100,000" white. Look it up.
Clearly, these "geohashers" must be even bigger peckerwoods than the people I grew up with (in neighboring Castro Valley) if that environment makes them uncomfortable. If white guys with guns mounted to pickup trucks makes them uncomfortable, I hope they had a speedy return to wherever they came from, completely bypassing Oakland, California, whose demographics are markedly different. And whatever they do, they should not wait for the bus on the streetcorner out in front of my local bar. It's gotten pretty hairy over there a couple times over the last few years.
Breakfast served all day!
Additionally, most firearm murders* are criminal on criminal. If you're not a criminal, hanging out with criminals, you're as safe or safer in the United States than you are elsewhere. Personally, I blame the war on drugs.
*I'm excluding suicides because they'd just find another, and accidents because the real accident rate is insignificant.
I don't read AC A human right
It's funny that you start your comment with "That is absolutely made up." Because I'm fairly certain your "99.99%" statistic is "absolutely made up" as well.
Hey, Randall here (hey, my account still exists!)
Sometimes the coordinates fall on military bases. Sometimes they're in the ocean. Sometimes they're in the middle of Bill Gates's house (when that one happens, maybe we can work something out). So even if it weren't for the legality issues, there's a big common sense element.
The idea is that you get as close as you can to the point without going onto private property without permission. Most of the time, this means meeting on a road or cul-de-sac or whatnot. The point is just to get people close enough that they can all exchange high fives and then go to a nearby park or bar together.
I've met unfriendly people while out hiking (both for geohashing and for fun). I've also met some astonishingly friendly people, more than you'd expect. People on the whole are decent. But if you're wandering around in strange places in the real world, there are risks inherent to that, and you do have to use your judgment. If you treat the coordinates like commands and try to get at them no matter what, you're doing it wrong.
xkcd.com - a webcomic of mathematics, love, and language.
We wear black and white cowboys hats. And you think Americans are ignorant of other cultures!
Fnord.
It depends on the area and the farm. When I was a kid you might have had a gun handy or not. The gun really wasn't there to deter people it was there to maybe take game or put down a badly injured animal.
In Indiana in some areas within the last few decades there have been enough incidents involving strangers that farmers do go armed for people. A farm near my parents had an incident where someone started shooting at a combine. There was no warning and no reason was ever found. There was also a sniper incident in that area recently where several people were killed. While there are hunters in that area the sniper incident encouraged a large number of people to learn what a rifle is and what it can do. I suspect there are more non-hunters who can shoot than hunters in that area now.
If you're going to go to a rural area and be an ass expect to get cornholed. I like the comic but if it's readers are such stupid fucking morons as to trespass they can be hog feed for all I would care.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Mod parent up, of particular amusement "Because someone picked up their gun, and showed it to an aggressor, thus ending the conflict before it ever becomes violent." - if drawing down on someone isn't an escalation in violence I have no idea what is. +5 informative my ass.
There are indeed reasons for that Rancher to be armed. First off, if you get into trouble, it can take 911 longer than the rest of your life to get there. Pretty much you're on your own. Secondly, I don't know if anybody's noticed or not, but it's spring and cows drop calves and sheep drop lambs this time of year, and Coyotes are everywhere. Worse still, coyotes have something in common with man-- they frequently kill for the hell of it. And the margins on running a ranch are close enough that you can't afford to lose livestock to random predation unless you want to go broke, so this time of year, if you see a coyote, out comes the SKS or whatever, (very popular as a ranch rifle) and the coyotes in question become fodder for vultures, magpies, ect. There are places where there is a tradition of free range. Most of Nevada outside of Clark or Washoe Counties for example, still let you roam around as long as you're not damaging anything. A lot of ranchers are looking at keep out signs though, because of idiots who do things like cut locks, cut fences and shoot at water troughs. (And in a desert, shooting a water trough is actually a crime that merits hanging, even though nobody does) and sometimes livestock. In order to prevent such things, if you're working a ranch, you pack a rifle. And it is considered good manners to ask, and if you're hunting and get lucky, a couple of cleaned birds on the way out is usually appreaciated. And I usually carry some stuff to take a few minutes to fix a downed section of fence if I find one. One makes friends that way. The bottom line is that those young idiots who seem to have gotten a case of the vapors over a rancher with a camera and guns that happen to be his working tools in the gun rack, were handled far more gently than they probably deserved and they should be thankful rather than complaining. And they do owe him an apology, so that little suggestion that was on their website is one that they should take to heart.
I own several guns. Several of those have never even been pointed at a living thing, despite having thousands of rounds put through them. One of those was designed and manufactured "for the sole purpose" of punching little holes in paper (hopefully, very close together). Another, for breaking small clay disks.
You fear is irrational. It springs from ignorance. There are a great many things that are far more likely to cause you bodily harm than firearms. Granted, there are some gun owners who shouldn't be trusted with anything even as dangerous as a pointy stick, but there are, for example, even more automobile drivers who shouldn't be trusted with anything faster than a skateboard. Do you likewise have a fear of cars? I'll wager that you do not, despite that fact that you are far more likely to be gunned down by some arrested-adolescent speeding through traffic in buzzing import car than you are by a gun owner.
I was raised on a farm, and although I've been living in some of the most modern urban locations on Earth for 15 years, there's a cultural gap between me and most people.
I remember when I was young, maybe ten years old, and I went in to town to play with some friends. They were playing some kind of neighborhood-wide hide and seek, tear-assing through everyone's backyards. I felt unable to play because the wholesale trespassing going on made me intensely uncomfortable. It still does.
Of course I was trained to shoot at age 8 and operate heavy machinery at 12, so there were other benefits as well.
Had these ordinary folks with an arcane hobby shown up on my father's farm he would have shot a warning shot across thier bow (12 gauge bird shot). He, however would have told them to stay where they were and to not move until the County Sheriff arrived to deal with them. At which point they'd get a free meal and room for the night in the pokey. You see my father, and every landowner in the county who had an ounce of smarts, knew the sheriff and his deputies pretty well and would be happy to do a favor for him (particularly if there would be a good story in it) and would always take his word against someone from out of the area. So even if these guys had called the law, it would have done them no good.
Had they gone up and rung the doorbell and asked, it may have been a no problem. But then again it might have. Depends on the season and where they wanted to go. If they wanted to go in the middle of a field and there were still crops in, there's no chance in hell, they could easily cause hundreds of dollars of crop damage. And likewise in a pasture where there are animals. Just because they are farmed animals does not mean they are domesticated. Getting run over by a cow isn't fun, and a sow can and will kill you if she senses a threat to her young.
Wolves and mountain lions are responsible for very few deaths. We have far more to fear from rustlers, than from a lion or a wolf pack. But 100 years that was the problem. Now, they are far and few in between. During calving, yeah, have to pay attention esp. for coyotes.
And as to the re-introduction, yeah, the folks outside of Yellowstone report issues, but few losses. They problem is that they HAVE come up to the houses AND have gone after a couple of pets.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I live in a rural area in the Midwest. If a horde of people I didn't know suddenly descended on my property, and I don't see some badges or blue and red lights accompanying them, those people would see a gun too...and mine wouldn't be in a rack.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
Well unlike the UK the US hasn't killed off every animal larger than a squirrel. Not many natural predators when you've already hunted every perceivable threat to extinction.
2nd amendment and all that.
Rural areas have, in the recent past, had serious problems with meth cookers. Either stealing anhydrous ammonia or using abandoned or unused houses and buildings to cook meth. Since meth cookers are usually tweakers and tweakers are usually paranoid and borderline psychotic, they have a tendency to be dangerous. And then there's just thieves stealing cattle or farm equipment, who are also generally armed and dangerous.
I've heard this from BLM rangers in Arizona and landowners in North Dakota.
Even if geohashers aren't doing anything "wrong" and are trespassing in error, at a minimum ranchers/farmers know that a sheriff may be 30 minutes or more away and that confronting an unknown quantity in a rural location and unarmed is inherently dangerous. So you grab your rifle from the truck.
While this might get you in hot water in the city when the police show up, in the country it means when your wife's cousin's husband (ie, the sheriff or deputy) shows up he usually will ask the landowner what time the barbecue on Saturday is and does he want those people arrested or just escorted out of the county.
And getting arrested in a rural area sucks. They'll treat you nice, but the "punishment" means spending 2-3 days in jail until bail is set and someone can drive down to bail you out (they won't let you out to go to the bank to get money wired to you) and if you choose to fight it or have to go to trial, making several trips at inconvenient times, hiring a local attorney (whose rates tend to go up for outsiders) and then paying some fine.
Coyotes were responsible for significantly more sheep deaths but even then it is a small portion of the population. A bit over 100,000 deaths were due to coyotes out of a population of 4.6 million. Coyotes often experience dramatic population restructuring in areas where wolves (which are bigger and stronger) are reintroduced. Coyotes however are also much better at living close to humans. I saw one in my backyard twice this year and I live 5 miles from one of the ten largest cities in the US.
Mountain lions have a total breeding population of around 50,000 spread across both of the americas. They are a threatened species and there are estimated to only be several thousand of them in the US most of them in and around the Rocky mountains with a few in south Florida. Like wolves, in most places their numbers simply aren't large enough to constitute a serious threat to most ranchers.
This land is my land
This land is my land
I got a shotgun
An' you ain't got one
If you don't get off
I'll blow your head off
This land is private property
"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
tee-hee!
Sometimes at night I imagine the darkness is filled with horrible things with too many teeth, like Julia Roberts.
"Being visibly armed is a threat."
No, "pointing and brandishing" arms is a threat.
The distinction matters.
Arms in a gun rack or shouldered on a sling are not a threat, though their potential should be taken into account.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
huh. So... during heated domestic arguments, does a gun owner actually have less of a chance to shoot his wife in the heat of the moment than the non-gun owner? Like guns all you want, but guns cause far more violent gun crimes than they prevent them (you count up your hero stories, and for each I'll find you 10 gun murders.)
The Admin and the Engineer
It sounds like typical media scare. Think of all of the stories you see in the paper or on the news about "man with a gun." It's as if the mere presence of a gun denotes wrong doing.
... survivors will be shot again.
Someone's sig on slashdot.
It doesn't matter what your stats say or whether they are legit or made up.
The Supremes will likely rule that the Second Amendment means what it says and gun "bans" will go the way of the Dodo bird.
Reasonable regulation, such as that applied to speech, will be available though.
And regarding the knife...it is widely recognized that a knife can be deadly if the perp is less than 20 or so feet from you (assuming your weapon is holstered, maybe even not).
So the rule is shoot early, shoot often!
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
"I dunno why people always think a fear of firearms is irrational"
Because it is irrational to fear guns. If your fear is based on ignorance then it is a rational fear, and can be corrected.
Your post attempts to rationalize your fear with the injection of a form of understanding. If you Fear an inanimate object simply based on its designed or perceived designed purpose then it is an irrational fear.
Hoplophobia along with Agoraphobia, Arachnophobia, and any of the other host of phobias are all defined as irrational fears.
If in fact your fear is based to a degree on ignorance (unfamiliarity with the workings of firearms), I suggest you spend some time taking lessons at a local shooting range.
As for the guns are designed to kill thing.... Well yes, most guns are deigned to, or are based off of guns designed to kill. But the truth about that is, some things need killing. Animals don't sacrifice themselves to be food on a table. If its made of meat it was killed to be put on your plate. If its made of red meat, then it was killed with a gun (firearm or captive bolt) to become food. As for killing people, "couple that with the general fact that people are idiots" you summed up why some people need killing, because some idiots will take your life for their personal or political gain.
...lions are dangerous. If you get near one, they are way more dangerous than spiders. Which by your own arguments you won't get near one so they aren't dangerous. You should be disappearing in a poof of logic about right now.BTW I enjoyed all the made up statistics. I enjoy some good fiction.