Slashdot Mirror
Magazine Photos Fool Age-verification Cameras
gregor-e writes "Japan has scheduled a full-scale rollout of visual age-verification on cigarette vending machines. Unfortunately for them, a Sankei Sports news reporter has determined that this system can be fooled by holding up a magazine photo of an adult."
Wow, this whole idea is fantastically stupid in so many ways. In a sense I admire the gall of whichever company sold this technology, as they must have known that it couldn't possibly work. No doubt they'll roll out some ad-hoc solution to the magazine workaround (earning themselves another hearty payday as all the machines are updated). This can be repeated for each new workaround until everyone involved retires rich and their customer is too embarrassed to admit that the whole thing was obviously a waste of money.
At least it's a tobacco company getting shafted. Can't feel too sorry for them.
apterous.org
It's funny when people try to create a complex system in which someone finds a tiny, simple hole. On a related note, wouldn't it be a better idea (and probably more cost effective than continual update to the security) to have some sort of ID scanner in addition to the cameras?
BTW it is easy to fix this if the machine asks the people to move. This will work ... for about a week, until they start creating animations of old people that can move on command for EEEs or other such netbooks.
Amusing that the system can be fooled simply by holding a photo up to the camera.
Maybe they should just stick to the controlled substances being dispensed over the counter from say, a liquor store?
Very difficult to beat the eye to eye sales method.
"Suppose you were an idiot...and suppose you were a member of Congress...but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
Visual age verification was bound to fail anyways. I've seen teens who can pass as an adult, and I've seen adults who can pass as teens. Also, I bet if anyone just put on a fake beard they probably could fool the machine.
Japanese vending machines are now configured to dispense pictures of cigarettes.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Hey now! I use magazine photos and I'm neither old nor Korean! Oh wait, what were we talking about?
This guy's the limit!
You have to be old enough to know better. ~
Invenio via vel creo
...should not be allowed to buy cigarettes for having such a childish idea. Oh, and the frog (?) is cute.
Ezekiel 23:20
what i don't get is why they didn't include a 10$ thermal sensor on their camera. it would have made this kind of attack much harder
Their place is in an age-restricted building or room.
Cigarette vending machines in bars, casinos, adult-entertainment establishments, and other placed where Junior can't get in without bribing the doorman, er, I mean presenting a convincing fake id, are no problem.
If they really wanted to handle this with a machine, they would make you insert your driver's license, tell you to close either your left eye or right eye or make some other facial expression at random, then compare the faces. They would double-check with the driver's license database to make sure the face on the license matched the face on record.
Thankfully, we aren't quite to this 1984 scenario yet, but this is coming.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
They are Japanese.
You really think THEY didn't come up with that technical idea by now?
TFA:
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
"Little Brother" by Cory Doctorow. I just finished it, and it's full of stuff like ths. Great book, btw, HIGHLY recommended.
So this machine can determine 17 from 18 accurately? That would be a good iPhone app!
Tibbon
tibbon.com
Let me quote myself:
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Steal a picture of the CEO, photocopy, put it back, hold up in front of your face when trying to access the secret room and let it scan you.
God I wasted so many damn hours on that game.
Karma: Non-Heinous
Keee-rist! There's stupid, then there's corporate stupid. There had to be a committee in this somewhere.
Three Squirrels
Why not just ban cigarette vending machines like we did here in Canada? It's much simpler than trying to invent silly age verification schemes that any tech-savvy kid can foil.
I use this.
Works every time!
nuf said
It is full of saggy features... makeup of your own face.. if it can be fooled by a 2D image.. it is pretty dumb and will be fooled even by a hand-drawing
Never send a computer to do a human's work.
From TFA:
As part of the age-verification system, most of Japan's 570,000 cigarette vending machines are being outfitted with RFID readers that check the purchaser's Taspo age-verification card. Smokers without a Taspo card can now either buy their cigarettes in person over the counter or use one of 4,000 special machines equipped with face-recognition systems (these machines do not require Taspo cards). More face-recognition machines are on the way, according to vending machine manufacturer Fujitaka, who developed the face-recognition hardware.
They have over half a million cigarette vending machines.
They equip 4000 with a face recognition thingie.
Sounds more like a field test to me.
Expect the tech and the math coming out of this to be used in the next generation of face recognition systems.
And what better way to test it than to use thousands of teenage addicts - with lots of spare time and very little care for rules and "conventional way of thinking".
And such valuable input they give...
When the reporter went to check out the new age-verifying machines after they were introduced in the Osaka area in June, he soon discovered that the machines equipped with face-recognition cameras would let him buy cigarettes when he held up a 15-centimeter (6-in) wide magazine photo of a man who looked to be in his 50s.
The reporter also went to Kobe, where different face recognition hardware is being used. There, he bought cigarettes using an 8-centimeter (3-in) wide magazine photo of a female celebrity in her 30s. He also reportedly tried to use a 3-centimeter (1-in) wide photo, but the machines rejected it
So... Once the second generation of face recognition thingies comes out (probably requiring movement of the target), they already know that the 1 inch mobile screens won't fool it.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
... you have to put a debit card into the machine for age verification. (of course you can pay with it too)
Why didn't the Japanese use this simple idea? It may not be perfect, but far more effective than their "solution".
People who don't work M-F 9-5, as you put it, but instead work more... "liberally distributed" hours... have balls, authorization and right to click the links they want to click.
Don't blame your bosses on not reading TFA.
Whats that anyway? Slashdot equivalent of your dog eating your homework?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Wait, a McCain picture might give error messages indicating you are TOO old to buy cigarettes.
So I don't know why any trust is given to a machine to guess someone's age based on the appearance of their face. A lot of retailers I've seen have a sign posted at the till that says they will ask for ID if you look under 35. 35! This enormous margin of error is due to the fact that you really can't tell if someone is over or under 18 without some seriously obvious clue. I was 30 before people stopped guessing my age to be 20. My neice was able to get service in a bar once at age 14, and it could easily be seen why.
The machine asks the customer to hold up a newspaper with the publication date clearly visible. Anyone can find a picture of an old person but an old person with today's newspaper? Far less likely.
I await my royalty check.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
What are they going to do?
Fire you?
They NEED you working weekends!
Make you stay after hours?
Hello? Weekends? Working?
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
This story immediately reminded me of the 12 year old me guessing my way through the quiz before playing Leisure Suit Larry.
Who the hell is Spiro Agnew? LSL taught me.
Also, why didn't I find out Alt-X would skip that quiz until nearly 20 years later?
mr.
How can it guard against a kid paying some adult a buck or two to get it for them?
It cant.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Wait, let's back this train up a hair. So humans can't even look at another human and tell if they're over or under 18 necessarily. Like it's hard to tell a 19 year old from a 17 year old. And they expect a computer to do better?! Not gonna happen even if all asians look alike so the AI coding is 100x simpler lol. Plus, they obviously didn't consider faking it that way. Totally idiotic if you ask me.
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
The Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board is considering vending machines for wine.
Users will have to register for the ability to use the machine, then put their ID / hand / arm into the machine each time, plus will be remotely monitored during the process.
Check out the pic of it - comical!
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080615_Convenience__LCB-style_.html
Ron
"In North America, of course, magazine photos use young people."
there fixed that for you. you do realize the impact of magazines on widespread society, and the popularity of various talking heads and celebrities, especially this 'tween' star trend... the forbes top 100 celeb list had like 10 'tween's on it.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Things I learned from Space Quest:
- How to bypass facial recognition scanners
- In space, people are held prisoner by Jello. You'd be able to eat your way out, if only you didn't hate Lime.
- How to beat anybody at Astro Chicken.
Karma: Non-Heinous
I think we need to utilize these in America to curb underage drinking!
Nobody was looking at her face?
No sig today...
those scratch and sniff stickers from when I was a kid ;-)
Libertas in infinitum
Your phrase reminded me of good ol' Darth, so...
Jedi Mind trick #147: Fooling a cigarrette vending machine.
"These aren't the underages you're looking for" (waves magazine)
No no, you're thinking of Japan.
DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
The solution is obvious: make it illegal to sell magazines with pictures of adults to minors.
Will soon be fooling people as well. Facial recognition be damned, when you average joe can't tell the difference, the war is lost.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
If you have nothing worth saying, say nothing.
I'm sure you're the model of health and fitness, and do not cause any pollution or even use public resources.
"Japan has scheduled a full-scale rollout of visual age-verification on cigarette vending machines." What if you're baby-faced?
First and foremost, those "facial recognition" vending machines are extremely rare. So rare, I haven't seen one yet. All the other machines are equipped with a "TASPO" RFID card reader. This card has your name and photo on it, and you need to mail in a copy of your drivers license to get one in the first place.
There used to be beer vending machines that used drivers licenses to verify age, but a photocopied license worked just as well, not to mention that in Tokyo and Osaka where it's common for someone not to have a drivers license (public transportation makes a lot more sense in these areas), only those that drove could buy beer from the machine. A slightly humorous combination if you ask me.
As far as the magazine shot fooling the vending machine, I have no doubts that the developers already knew it, and notified the company contracting the work. The vending machine company just said "all we need to do is have an excuse that we made an effort to verify age. If someone went to extra lengths to fool the machine, what can we do?" After all, those vending cigarettes for the most part don't give a damn who buys, but they do want to circumvent getting in trouble with the law. And so far the law says you can't sell cigarettes to someone that looks under age. (IDing is not mandatory in Japan.)
That said, getting rid of these vending machines isn't really gonna change anything. A highschooler can still walk into a 7-11 and buy a pack of cigarettes, provided he/she's not dressed in school uniform. "I swear I thought he looked over 20 (legal smoking age in Japan)!" is a good enough of an excuse for the seller.
This is similar to back about 10 years ago when a bunch of highschoolers in uniform went out to a bar to drink, and one died of acute alcohol poisoning. The onus was put on the establishment's owner for knowingly serving a group of underaged kids. So what happened? Every single bar I ever went to now had a sign up front that said "we do not permit the entrance of underaged persons in school uniform." What does it mean? It means exactly what it says. Change out of your uniform, pull on some jeans and come back.
Mind you, unlike the U.S., underage drinking and smoking has been culturally accepted for a long time here. Smoking has finally started to get a bit of a stigma attached to it, but drinking is still fine. Teachers still occasionally go out for a drink with their students, although they WILL get in trouble if anything happens and word gets out that they were on the scene. (No, not every teacher does this, but there's an abundance nonetheless. Personally, I like the idea of the teacher being there. Most kids won't go wild if their teacher is drinking with them.)
Don't laugh, it happens in times of rationing. You need the ID to prevent the trade of ration coupons.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Gives a whole new meaning to "Adult Magazine"...
It's called the TASPO. http://www.taspo.jp/english/taspo/index.html Tokyo starts tomorrow!!
Will you have to verify your age to buy schoolgirl panties? Somehow I think Japan needs to review its priorities.
No portion of this post may be rebroadcast without the express, written consent of Major League Baseball.
I don't know, this might muck up my karma, but still it has to be said...
Mate, if you live in a village somewhere, with no cars or industry nearby, i'd agree with you... otherwise, you get much more damage to your lungs from just having a walk in a city than from a rare second hand smoke.
Now, if you're in a tight space with a person who smokes, in a car or a room for example, then i agree it shouldn't be your problem, it should be up to the smoker to refrain from lighting up, or to go outside.
That's the main reason why i never smoke inside any kind of building, or in any car. It's just a question of common courtesy - i choose to smoke because i like it, but i also know that it's bad for non-smokers, so i don't smoke near them.
Hell, i even refrain from smoking in my own apartment, just because it's rented, and i don't want a possible future inhabitant to have to live with the smell of smoke imprinted in the walls and furniture.
actually using used panties would be gross
Yes, that's the point.
You can't take the sky from me...
This reminds of the time when Myth Busters fooled a fingerprint detector door lock - using a photo copy of a finger print:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LA4Xx5Noxyo
(The photo copy test is at 2:15)
about this BEFORE Nov 2007... Can't find URLs, though...
But, see:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/08/hanko_security.html
">"The joker scans this image and prints it on the withdrawal slip with color printer. The bank >teller accepts this slip and passbook as authentic, and victim's account will be emptied. >Sometimes, the scanned digital image goes to hanko carving machine, too."
And...
>It's the stamped image of one's hanko that is stored in the databases of goverment offices, >banks and other public institutions. Not the particulars of physical hanko itself! And any >image can be flawlessly reproduced in this era of digital processing.
To me, I do not see the security here. If you stamp a cheque or other document with your Hanko in the 'correct dial' position, it still gives the 'Joker' the ability to scan the document and reproduce a static Hanko, without ever needing to have the device.
Could one create an encrypted hanko stamp that changes with the date? Officials would decode using a 'public key'...
Posted by: nzruss at August 17, 2006 10:37 AM"
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The only real social problems I have with smoking are:
1) Second-hand smoke. Why can't somokers understand that their right to smoke stops at my lungs? i have the right to keep and bare arms, you have the right not to get gunned down at the Circle-K. Rights are arranged in a hierarchy where your right to do is naturally supposed to be limited by other's right not to do, because that is your right not to do as well.
2) WTF is the thing where smokers think its okay to toss butts on the ground or out the window of a car. Back before filters that might have been okay because the tiny scrap of tissue and bits of leaf would basically go away. Why is it that someone who wouldn't throw a candy wrapper on the ground will litter hundreds of little polyester stubs wherever they go?
I think most of the smoking thing would self resolve if there was a $5 deposit on each butt. A responsible smoker would only have to pay the $100 for the fist pack and would keep returning his butts for the next pack. The idiots would starve.
It wouldn't stop the "I have a right to blow my somke in your face no matter what because you have the right to leave" idiots though. They don't even get the I have a right to shoot at your face and you have the right to flee as a congruent falsehood.
Smoking, it seems, makes you willfully ignorant. 8-)
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
Simply remove pictures of peoples faces from all publishing material. Honestly though, even without the simple bypass just give a 10 to adult to have his face recognized. This is no different then kids waiting outside the gas station for smokes.
Interesting idea, but your deposit is a touch too high. I can't wait to hear about the new rash of smokers getting mugged.
Cynical Idealist
ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored and kept under control.
War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control... All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield... Controls history.
War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control... ...War becomes routine.
Magazine photos generally do not have pupils that contract in response to a bright light.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.