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How Dell Is Making Ubuntu Linux More Attractive

Posted by timothy on from the gussyin'-n'-prettyin' dept.

CWmike writes "Dell was the first of the major computer manufacturers to support pre-installed Linux, but it's not just pre-installing Linux. The Austin, Tex. company is also adding functionality to Ubuntu Linux on its desktops and laptops, writes Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols. It began by adding DVD-playback to its systems shipping with Ubuntu 7.10. With the recent release of Dell PCs with Ubuntu 8.04, Dell is now including 'Fluendo GStreamer codecs for mp3, wma (Windows Media Audio), and wmv (Windows Media Video) playback' in its latest Ubuntu-powered desktops and laptops. On Ubuntu systems with ATI or NIVDIA graphics, Dell also now supports HDMI output. Yesterday, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer said his company hopes to steal a page from Apple's playbook and change how it works with hardware makers in an attempt to duplicate its rival's success. Is OS customization the way forward for desktop Linux, and Windows?"

125 of 160 comments (clear)

  1. Making more attractive.... by Naughty+Bob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ....or saving on support costs?

    It's really a no-brainer- if you're going to sell computers, they better be able to do out of the box everything that people know computers can do. They'll save $$$ on call-centre robots, there's no choice.

    --
    "Be light, stinging, insolent and melancholy"
    1. Re:Making more attractive.... by mr_matticus · · Score: 1

      Are they mutually exclusive?

      Many of the biggest boons to open source software have come about not because of converts to the religion, but because of business seeking the best solution to a given problem. If paying $x to customize Ubuntu is cheaper than paying $x+y to support users without it, most businesses are going to customize Ubuntu for sufficiently large values of y.

      Win-win.

    2. Re:Making more attractive.... by rudy_wayne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I believe it's going to be just the opposite ..... more support calls. Once again everyone is missing the point. It's not the OS -- it's the ability to get things done. I loved OS/2 and BeOS but they were ultimately useless because of a lack of appications and device drivers.

      For example my 75 year old aunt has been heavily interested in Geneolgy for many years and has hundreds of pages of data and photos. So she decided that she wanted a computer. She went to Best Buy and bought a Gateway and one of her nephews who "knows about computers" wiped the hard drive and installed Linux (may have been Ubuntu but I don't remember). It turns out that "knows about computers" isn't much more than reading a few pro-Linux anti-Windows articles and knowing how to burn an ISO onto a CD.

      For a while everything was fine. She surfed the web, sent e-mail, wrote letters, etc. Then she goes to the store and talks to a salesman about Geneology. He sells her a Geneology program, a scanner for all her old photos and she decides she would like to get a digital camera so she can take more pictures of all her various nephews, nieces, grandchildren, etc. The salesman assures her that everything is "plug and play" and you just follow a few simple directions.

      Well, of course nothing works. The software and device drivers are all Windows only. Yes, even the camera requires a driver to transfer pictures. She calls Gateway support but they can't help her. Of course Gateway doesn't know that she's running Linux -- she doesn't know it either and wouldn't know what that meant if you told her. So she calls the nephew who "knows about computers" and he spends some time Googling but can't help. So now she's angry and upset, but she's even more angry and upset when she finds out she can't return the software because it's been opened.

      In desperation she calls me. I wipe the hard drive, reinstall Windows XP, all the updates, remove all the crapware, etc. And now she's happily spending many hours with her Geneology. It's not the operating system -- it's the ability to get things done.

      The point is very simply this. Yes you can set up a computer with Linux that performs routine tasks and is easy enough for Aunt Mildred to use. But eventually everyone -- even Aunt Mildred -- outgrows routine tasks. Remember WebTV? Remember (hardware) Word Processors? Where are they now? I believe that Dell will save a few dollars by not installing Windows but spend much more than that on support calls. There are a lot of Aunt Mildreds out there.

    3. Re:Making more attractive.... by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So then, if ignorance is a defense, I suppose your logic works equally well if she had a Mac and then had gotten MS Software. Or if she was running MS WinXP, and she bought Mac software. So really Apple, MS, and all versions of Linux are to blame because of her ignoranance. Sorry, I have to laugh at the implications of such logic. Maybe you didn't think it through, but at least to me, it is obvious.

    4. Re:Making more attractive.... by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      Yes, because someone who thinks a computer is just the same as any other computer and isn't even told by the person setting it up what's going on. When you don't even know that such things as alternate operating systems EXIST, then no, you're not at fault for someone else just going and installing something without your knowledge.

      --
      Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
    5. Re:Making more attractive.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think an important issue is the fact that we, as consumers, allow retail to tell us that we cannot return open box software. Hell, you can even return open food to a supermarket, but you can't return an item that has (effectively) no expiration date.

    6. Re:Making more attractive.... by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      And, if you would actually read my comment, you would notice that, no, i did not say that it was because of apple, ms, or linux; i said it was because of people who know nothing saying "This is awesome! Use it!" and then not being able to help when something invariably comes up.

      --
      Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
    7. Re:Making more attractive.... by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Her own damn fault for not taking the time to find what she was getting. It's like she got a car without checking what kind of fuel it takes. "A car is a car! Every car runs with the same fuel! Diesel? Ethanol? NGV? What are you talking about, boy?!"

      --
      Circumcision is child abuse.
    8. Re:Making more attractive.... by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      Um, your argument makes no sense. Nowadays, unless you are specifically told otherwise, you can usually safely assume that your car will take unleaded. Besides, if the box for the machine says "windows" but the idiot nephew installs ubuntu without telling her, how would she know?

      --
      Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
    9. Re:Making more attractive.... by Annymouse+Cowherd · · Score: 1

      Really it's just that no one knows what linux is, so they only make the distiction between macs (which are pretty easy to recognize with that logo all over them) and "everything else".

    10. Re:Making more attractive.... by rudy_wayne · · Score: 1, Insightful

      [If she didn't know she was running linux and bought software that was specifically only made for windows, that's her fault. I don't go to the store and buy new DVD's and try to make them work with my tape deck. The fact that I just wanted to play music is not an argument against the tape deck. Saying "she didn't know" is a cop-out,]

      This is utter bullshit. There are numerous technologies that the elderly know nothing about. To say that she's supposed to know about Linux is beyond absurd.

    11. Re:Making more attractive.... by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Nowadays, unless you are specifically told otherwise, you can usually safely assume that your car will take unleaded.

      Well, that's not the case with computers. Not long ago, true, you'd just assume your PC would come with Windows. But now many sellers bundle Linux instead, and it's almost trivial to change the operating system. A PC is a complex machine, not an appliance. It's not really hard to use, but it still requires a bit of learning. Otherwise, you will keep needing someone to fix any screw-ups.

      Besides, if the box for the machine says "windows" but the idiot nephew installs ubuntu without telling her, how would she know?

      By the fact that it says "Ubuntu" every time it boots? See, that's a part of the learning I just mentioned: to know what an OS is.

      --
      Circumcision is child abuse.
    12. Re:Making more attractive.... by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      And how many people outside of /. really know that such a thing as linux exists? Not many.

      Also, most people hit the button and walk away from. Hell, I don't even watch it boot, and I'm on here nearly 12 hours a day!

      --
      Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
    13. Re:Making more attractive.... by techno-vampire · · Score: 2, Informative
      Yes, even the camera requires a driver to transfer pictures.

      Unless she bought a toy digital camera with a non-standard chipset, it should have worked fine. Either digiKam or f-spot should have been able to find and download the photos. If not, the camera should have shown up on the desktop and you could have used copy/paste to get them onto the hard disk. Sounds like Granny was talked into buying a cheap camera instead of a good one.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    14. Re:Making more attractive.... by ndnspongebob · · Score: 1

      or both?

    15. Re:Making more attractive.... by Tacvek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My larger concern is are they doing it correctly? Are they adding this functionality by creating policy compliant debs and installing them? If not they are actually hurting Ubuntu by making it harder for the Ubuntu support systems to function.

      Debian (and thus its derivatives) has historically had one of the nicest package management systems (although these days emerge and yum have made the difference much much smaller than it once was). However the cost of that is that the system requires that packages conform to a relatively strict set of policies, and that hand installed software be installed into /usr/local instead of /usr.

      Debs not conforming to those policies, or manual installation of software to /usr can potentially wreck havoc on the system. even if it does not, any problems resulting from them can be far more difficult to diagnose.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    16. Re:Making more attractive.... by atraintocry · · Score: 1

      Well, it's not as if Dell isn't selling Windows PCs as well. Aunt Mildred's situation was unfortunate in that her nephew knew just enough to be dangerous. But if you're just looking for a computer on the Dell site, you're not even going to find the Linux machines. They're not really front and center.

    17. Re:Making more attractive.... by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      The point is very simply this. Yes you can set up a computer with Linux that performs routine tasks and is easy enough for Aunt Mildred to use. But eventually everyone -- even Aunt Mildred -- outgrows routine tasks. Remember WebTV? Remember (hardware) Word Processors? Where are they now? I believe that Dell will save a few dollars by not installing Windows but spend much more than that on support calls. There are a lot of Aunt Mildreds out there.

      You certainly have a point; although there needs to be a push for interoperable standards.

      For example, I can buy a DVD and play it in any DVD player; no single company completely controls the DVD specification. (With the exception of 5.1 sound...)

      On the other hand, I have to run XP under VMware Fusion because we still don't have a good system for software interoperability.

      I hope computer manufacturers start pushing for interoperable software/hardware standards. Aunt Mildred shouldn't have to buy a Windows computer just to do what she wants to do. Hopefully this is the beginning.

      --
      No, I will not work for your startup
    18. Re:Making more attractive.... by Boltronics · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is that Aunt Mildred shouldn't be using a computer without being properly educated on how to use it.

      My parents are the same - they can figure out how to use e-mail *usually*, but when something goes wrong they have no basic understanding of how things are supposed to work, and hence where the problem may be. They don't even know the difference between a web browser, "the Internet" or an e-mail client, despite having used a computer for a few years now.

      In the case of my parents, they have zero interest in computers - they see them as a means to an end. They are too lazy to read a book on the subject (even ones I brought them) - it's easier to call a nephew or a son and have them fix it. The hundreds of hours of my time wasted on what would normally be trivial problems (eg. How to backup a file? Is this e-mail legitimate? How to I open this file? Where did my e-mail go? What's the difference between a file and a folder (for the 100th time)? etc.), has severely damaged our relationship, and has led to my wife even blocking their number on occasion.

      People take the time to learn how to drive a car, because they are forced to study for a license. Perhaps the same should be required for a computer?

      It's not hard to learn that the Windows PnP logo doesn't mean anything on a GNU/Linux system. The simple fact is that there are people out there who should not be using computers. Arguing that these few clueless people can't get things done on something other than Windows doesn't mean much.

      --
      It's GNU/Linux dammit!
    19. Re:Making more attractive.... by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      At least Dell seems to be in a very close dialog with Ubuntu. And Fluendo also has quite some experience and employ some important people from the free sofware community, I doubt they would create bad packages.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    20. Re:Making more attractive.... by Your.Master · · Score: 3, Insightful

      She may very well see lots of logos at boot-time. The BIOS might very well show Energy Star. Her monitor might flash a Gateway logo. The motherboard could plop another logo on her screen. If she's still paying attention to the fourth logo in the boot sequence, and by some miracle remembers "Ubuntu" (I can nearly guarantee she will not realize that's a word in some language somewhere in Africa), then she moves on to the challenge of moving from Ubuntu to Linux (another un-word) and then realizing that's something other than Windows. When her computer itself, in all likelihood, is plastered with Windows logos because that's what she actually purchased.

      A PC is a complex machine and an appliance.

    21. Re:Making more attractive.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The nephew left out one of the largest strengths of Ubuntu when showing it to your aunt.

      The fact that you can easilly install a large amount of Free Software using the add/remove programs menu.

      I did some Googling, and turned up some Free genealogy Software called GRAMPS. I don't know if it's in the ubuntu software respositories, but it probably is. If not, there are Ubuntu debs on the page. So, as for the genealogy software, she wouldn't have to have gone to the store to start with, and she wouldn't have had that problem.

      As for the scanner and digital cameras, it's unfortunate that the cameras she ended up getting didn't work with Ubuntu. It's often frustrating for me to buy certain kinds of hardware myself, and I run the slightly more mainstream Mac OS X. (As good as Ubuntu is, and I think it's definitely better than Windows, I still prefer Mac OS X.) But, the point it, there *are* scanners and digital cameras out there that work with Linux. And had she bought a Dell with Ubuntu on it (which this article is about), you bet she'd probably be able to call them to ask about compatible hardware.

      In the end, I'd say the fault was with the nephew for not educating your aunt with two simple facts:

      - It's Ubuntu, and you can actually find lots of software to do what you want to do using the add/remove programs program, which is a better way to find software than going to your local computer store and hope they have Linux software.

      - It's Ubuntu which means you have to make sure any hardware you buy will work with your system.

      In the end though, I have to agree with the point you were making -- Ubuntu preinstalled on a Dell will probably cause some more support calls to Dell -- calls that wouldn't have been made were the computer preinstalled with Windows.

      However -- Ubuntu preinstalled might also lead to *less* support calls, because of less problems with spyware, malware, adware, crapware and viruses.

      Though, I guess you could argue that's a negative for Dell too. No more buying another computer after a year, and throwing away the old one because it's infested with crapware. Why should Dell rock the boat? >:-)

    22. Re:Making more attractive.... by MrSmileyJr · · Score: 1

      You've obviously missed the point. When customers buy these, they know what they are getting themselves into! If you've noticed, Dell will not try to sell you ubuntu. They "agree" to sell it to you. Adding more value to their ubuntu offering means they are accommodating people who are willing to experiment, and give them a full package including all the basics. Aunt Mildred will not be buying this computer. Experimenter Joe will be. He will understand that he needs "ubuntu compatible" when it comes to outgrowing routine tasks. But experimenter Joe expects that whatever was included in the box works right out of the box, including that dvd drive that should play dvds....

      --
      Fix your Dell XPS m1210 screen! -- http://m1210screenfix.blogspot.com
    23. Re:Making more attractive.... by LingNoi · · Score: 1

      Then maybe grandma should have gone to http://www.geni.com/ instead of wasting loads of money on genealogy software which doesn't work..

      Yeah, yeah, I know. Didn't look at the options but maybe next time you should recommend it. Not only is it easier, it is more fun and the whole family can get involved.

      Also means you don't need to be at your computer to show someone the tree.

    24. Re:Making more attractive.... by abirdman · · Score: 1

      This is not flamebait! The poster is right-- blissful ignorance is sweet and grandmotherly and all, but it doesn't work in the real world, and it opens up grandma to be being scalped. It's lucky it was even possible to reinstall Windows (or did she have to buy another copy?) after nimrod-nephew wiped her machine to install Ubuntu. There's a saying that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but this case proves that no knowledge is even worse. It's OK to explain it to grandma... if she's learning how to use a scanner, digital camera, and all the new geneology software, I'll bet she'll figure it out pretty quickly. And maybe she'll bitch-slap nephew for messing up her machine in the first place.

      --
      Everything I've ever learned the hard way was based on a statistically invalid sample.
    25. Re:Making more attractive.... by downix · · Score: 1

      I checked, Ubuntu does have Gramps in it's repositories.

      --
      Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
    26. Re:Making more attractive.... by Wylfing · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sadly, your comment will be overlooked or modded down, as will mine. The OP of this thread told one of those phony "case study" stories cooked up by marketing to sow fear about competing products. Aunt Mildred? Are you serious? Unfortunately, a lot of people bought into the fake story.

      The FACT is as you point out: virtually any digital camera will work perfectly on Linux without installing anything. Just plug the camera in, and it works. The FACT is also that an HP photo printer/scanner/copier will work instantly, just plug it in.

      The FACT is that if you sat down with 20 consumer devices, a Linux box, and a Windows box, and installed no software/drivers/etc., that 15+ of those devices would work just fine on Linux and probably zero of them would work on Windows. And even after installing software and drivers, you will wouldn't get more than 18 out of 20 working perfectly on Windows -- you'd have to hunt on websites for updated drivers or some garbage like that. Whereas additional software installation on Linux will also get you up to 18 out of 20 devices. No different at all in the final analysis, except that for most of the devices it's easier to get up and running on Linux.

      So, OP, please take your fabricated "Aunt Mildred" stories back to 1999 where they belong.

      --
      Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
    27. Re:Making more attractive.... by bgman · · Score: 1

      First - I've probably plugged 15 different digital cameras into various flavors of linux. Every one worked. I've never heard of one that didn't work. This leads me to believe that rudy_wayne is truth challenged. I've plugged three different scanners into several versions of fedora. All three worked without a problem. Again, I believe that rudy_wayne is truth challenged. Of course, an expert is required to install XP on aunti's computer. XP is far too user unfriendly for a neophyte to install. Linux is so easy to install that her nephew that knows absolutely nothing about computers could install and get linux and the tens of thousands of programs provided free of charge running with out any difficulty. The lessons learned include - lots of liars post to slashdot and linux is much easier to get running than windows.

    28. Re:Making more attractive.... by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      I never said it was a problem with the software. Read again, bub.

      --
      Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
    29. Re:Making more attractive.... by kesuki · · Score: 1

      there are plenty of diesel and flex fuel vehicles on the road, not to mention states that use e-10 or e20 fuels standard.

      old cars were made with real rubber some times, and ethanol eats through real rubber like it was cotton candy.

      now, when you buy a car from a dealer ship they're going to tell you diesel/unleaded, today they might even tell you if it's flex fuel, although in the past they didn't. it could be a selling point, since e85 is cheaper right now than regular gasoline.

      in this case, the nephew, basically took an 'unleaded' vehicle, pulled the engine block and switched to to 'diesel' and when auntie went to fuel it up, the sticker on the pump panel said 'unleaded' so that's what she gave it and the engine blew up on her, remember PCs have a nice sticker on the front that tell you what OS it is.

      so of course she got mad, she saw the sticker on the front and that wasn't what was under the hood.

      never switch someone to linux without explaining to them how to get software, a quick synaptics check shows 4 genealogy packages, she had no need to go to the store for that software, as for cameras, a simple USB flash memory reader would have fixed her camera (and saved batteries!) for only $10 or less, as far as the scanner, today's digital cameras provide better image quality/faster with some nice reflective lighting, a display stand, and a tripod... plus you don't have to break spines, or worry that the text along the spine won't read right, as long as you have a good piece of glass or something to hold the page flat for the camera. for old photographs, there are services where you mail the negatives and get digital pictures on a cd back in the mail... why do it yourself? it's a pain!

      if you threw out the negatives, you can probably take the physical pictures to most camera stores to have the prints converted to digital, for a fee.

      --
      https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
    30. Re:Making more attractive.... by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      Thanks, your analogy was far better than mine. I suck at car analogies. Might be because I can't drive...

      --
      Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
    31. Re:Making more attractive.... by TENTH+SHOW+JAM · · Score: 1

      I for one welcome our .deb overlords. Having a strict policy on packaging is a very good idea. It allows installation of software to also include reasonably rapid upgrading and patching as required.

      So the pain is felt by the developer once working their way through the policies. the users never(for various values of never) need to deal with trying to clean up a crufted system. And let's be honest. If Linux is better, more attractive, and easier to use and maintain, it stops being a toy, and starts being a desktop/laptop contender.

      I was talking to a friend of mine about how easy it was to patch an entire debian based system (provided you trust the up stream patchers)over a Microsoft XP system. Then I asked the question why havn't Microsoft supplied a similar system? After install, a vendor enters a URL into a list of URLs outlining the location of any patch/upgrade files in .msp or .msi format. The WSUS system kicks off simply checking version numbers of the .msi out there to the one installed. If the version is different, flag for patching/upgrading. If you like you can add certification/hashes/biometrics to the system. The user still ends up with a fully patched system.

      Truth is, there is no money in it for Microsoft. It would merely be supplying a useful service to vendors/users and make it a responsible part of the computing ecosystem.

      I hope for the sake of Dell that they are packaging properly, and that they also provide the Dell repository as part of the system. It would make sense to me, and Dell do seem to want this to work. (although there may need to be mods to the repository system to allow only paying users to download products. Yes, yes all software should be free, but until software patents are crushed under the heel of RMS, we still have to contend with licencing fees.)

      --
      A sig is placed here
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      English Haiku is
    32. Re:Making more attractive.... by F'Nok · · Score: 1

      Please, merely because people you know are unaware of Linux does not mean that no one is.

      My parents who know very little of computers knew of Linux, without me ever mentioning it. They asked me, "What's this Linux that's an alternative to windows?" (amusingly asking because 'Windows always crashes').

      Linux has been covered on TV news, it's all over the internet.

      It's not known by 'everyone' but then neither are car brands.

      Someone is almost as likely to know what Linux is as they are to know what a Jag is. I'm not into cars and I have heard of a Jag, and many people are the same. They may not know a Jag when they see it, they may not care either.

      Not everyone is a dumbarse, why do so many people accuse the general public of knowing nothing on such topics?
      They know less. Not nothing.

      How many outside slashdot? Many I'd say.
      I have mentioned slashdot to friends before to get a strange look and a, "What's that?".
      To the same people I mention Linux and they know what it is, but don't really care, "Isn't that the other windows thing that geeks use?"

    33. Re:Making more attractive.... by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      There are digital cameras that don't work with Linux, and probably never will. They're the keychain sized cameras that you can get at the drug store for $10 or so. They don't use a standard chipset, they don't have a standard interface and the very proprietary drivers are Windows only. I know, because I found out the hard way when I installed Linux as dual-boot and it couldn't see the cheapie camera I was using at the time. Now, I'm strictly Linux and I've broken down and shelled out the money for a decent camera. Works just fine, like you said.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    34. Re:Making more attractive.... by orasio · · Score: 1

      Of course, you could say the hypothetical aunt in this case was a victim.
      But the guy is extrapolating that, and that's where he fails.
      Idiot nephews don't usually install Linux. Nowadays someone who installs Ubuntu is going to tell you what is going on.

      When someone asks about a new computer I tell them they probably want XP, but I don't know how to set it up properly, and I am not willing to maintain it. I tell them they need someone who knows, and is willing to keep it working, usually for a fee. I also say there is Ubuntu, and that I can help with that. There are some support issues solved through ssh + phone, and people eventually learn to use synaptic. For a simple firefox + skype + music library + IM + video + very casual desktop gaming + openoffice + scanner + printer computer , it's a great option.
      That's a good option because it requires almost no administration, and it comes for free. Those who need more, can get the alternative, but I think it's a good deal for the money.

      The thing with computer games is easy. Get a console! It's too difficult to maintain a gaming computer. You can't realistically have a gaming windows computer without someone who knows their windows living in the same house.

    35. Re:Making more attractive.... by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't go so far as to say any HP printer will just work... I switched several machines where I work to linux as a means of keeping the hardware running when we were getting rid of the old OS (Win 98) they ran... I used Ubuntu and none of them had any luck with any HP printer we have (mostly laserjets) each time I had to reinstall the latest bundle of HP printing supporting files (I forget the name of the package) as the one installed by defaulted and even updated in ubuntu couldn't find the printers... repeatedly... After 20 times of trying and failing, I don't think you can call my experience a 'case study' ~_~

      On the other hand cameras did just work, and flash memory, etc... But not everyone with issues is somehow lying about them to make linux look bad...

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    36. Re:Making more attractive.... by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      Your going to get this old, computer illiterate woman to find random linux software online through google...? o_0

      What dream world do you live in...?

      By the way... add/remove option in ubuntu doesn't list more than 40 apps... Most are buried in the more convoluted GUI package manager... Which it's hard to find anything in unless you know what it's name is....

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    37. Re:Making more attractive.... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      The linux distribution model is not based on stores. Genealogy is well supported by Linux and Ubuntu (for free, you don't have buy software). What is not supported is the go to a store model of distribution.

    38. Re:Making more attractive.... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      How the hell would she have even known? she's 75, for christ's sake. She thinks a computer is a computer is a compute

      Because if she is 75 she was around when digital computers were invented. Probably if she was educated, she worked with analog computational devices which most certainly are different from the ground up. During the WWII when she was a young married working in the factories would have been another opportunity. She might for example have seen technologies like overlapping signal cancelation (massive use of XOR that digital computers don't really do so well), the kinds of direct control systems that didn't exist until the late 80's with digital computers.

      Lets cut the old people are stupid nonsense. If she doesn't know the difference its because she choose to ignore 3/4s of a century of human progress and stay uninvolved.
       

    39. Re:Making more attractive.... by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      Windows has been around for what, 17 years? And yes, it *was* a drastic change. and your argument holds about 3 drops of water. Honestly, those are things even my father, who is heavily into hobbyist electronics, doesn't know about. don't expect some 75 year old woman who probably was a housewife her whole existence to know about something just because it existed.

      --
      Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
    40. Re:Making more attractive.... by jbolden · · Score: 1

      If your father was into hobbyist electronics up until any point before the late 70's he built analog computing circuits. And she probably wasn't a housewife during WWII. She would have been 21 when WWII started which means husband got drafted. You've seen the pictures of Rosie the riveter. That's her 53 years ago.

      Also women in the 30's knew practical things. Depending on where she grew up she might had to fix the phone or the electrical generator. That means understanding regulators. For that matter is she worked during the 1950s or early 1960s when analog technologies in consumer goods exploded. Or she could have been aware.

      Again she might have been clueless her whole life. But then 75 isn't the problem. And that's what I object to. This idea that stupid old people are stupid because they are old.

      I'm not sure how windows is relevant but no Windows was not a drastic change. Windows came in slowly. At first it was just a system for particular smaller apps to be used together. You still used DOS for your big apps which is what you spent most of your time in (unless you part of the Desqview crowd). By about Windows for Workgroup / Win95 you started to have people that never needed to go to DOS. There was no drastic change with Windows which is why it was so incredibly successful.

    41. Re:Making more attractive.... by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      are you mathematically challenged? Someone who is 75 now would have been born in 1933. That's between 6 and 9 when the war started (depends on your definition of when it started). And no, most women would not have known how to fix things; that's where the image of the maytag man came from. And I'm not saying that old people are stupid because they're old; I'm saying that their worldviews haven't managed to keep up.

      --
      Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
  2. And what about BIOS upgrades? by blowdart · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Dell are releasing BIOS upgrades for their laptops to cope with the Nvidia weak component problem (basically the fan will spin up sooner). This includes the laptop models that come with Linux preinstalled. Except there's no BIOS updater that will run under Linux; they're all Windows based (although if you have a DOS floppy knocking around you can use that)

    <tongue location="cheek"> Of course that might be ok as lets face it 3d gaming under Linux is as likely as Stallman shaving and looking respectable</tongue>

    1. Re:And what about BIOS upgrades? by linuxboredom · · Score: 3, Informative

      Dell are releasing BIOS upgrades for their laptops to cope with the Nvidia weak component problem (basically the fan will spin up sooner). This includes the laptop models that come with Linux preinstalled. Except there's no BIOS updater that will run under Linux; they're all Windows based (although if you have a DOS floppy knocking around you can use that)

      Umm...Dell has a Linux BIOS updater in its SMBIOS library. The only downside is that you might have to install wine for the image extraction (though it says it is still doable without).

    2. Re:And what about BIOS upgrades? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      (although if you have a DOS floppy knocking around you can use that)

      What the hell? You have such a low userID ... how can you possibly not know about Free DOS?

      I have never been unable to apply a BIOS update using a bootable Free DOS CD. (And prior to that, OpenDOS.) There's an ISO at the Free DOS website. It doesn't get any easier than that. So what was your complaint again?

    3. Re:And what about BIOS upgrades? by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 1

      lol okay, let me revise the parent..

      Of course that might be ok as lets face it real 3d gaming under Linux is as likely as Stallman shaving and looking respectable

    4. Re:And what about BIOS upgrades? by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      OHAI. I just cleared the "Portal: The Flash Version" map-pack (it's really a full alternate game, a sort of "Portal Master Quest") on Portal tonight. While running Linux.

    5. Re:And what about BIOS upgrades? by gzipped_tar · · Score: 1

      don't know what hardware is used by Dell but this list may help.

      --
      Colorless green Cthulhu waits dreaming furiously.
    6. Re:And what about BIOS upgrades? by downix · · Score: 1

      I've run Dell's BIOS updater under Linux. Might I introduce you to Wine?

      --
      Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
  3. You Gotta Do it Yourself.... by LVSlushdat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yes.. it does seem that Dell is at least paying lip service to Ubuntu/Linux, but just *try* to find the few systems that Dell has deemed to have Ubuntu installed on.. Not easy at all.. And when you do stumble upon the page, they try to scare you off by insinuating that you won't be getting Windows if you buy a system from the following pages.. Oh yeah, they're *really* supporting Linux.. I wanted a nice Core2Duo laptop with Ubuntu on it.. The only ones they preinstall Ubuntu on are the Inspiron/XPS systems.. I wanted a corporate system, ie: Latitude or Vostro system with it... Solly Cholly, only these few systems will we offend the great M$ on.. So I checked out the Dell Outlet, found a VERY nice Vostro 1400 with most everything I wanted, for $519, and proceeded to wipe Microsoft Yawn (also known as Vista) off it, and installed Ubuntu, which was a piece of cake.. But, since it came with Windows, MS gets to claim it as one of the hundreds of thousands of copies of Vista they've shipped..
    Thanks Dell.. Great machines, but you don't seem to have the balls to stand up to M$...

    --
    THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    1. Re:You Gotta Do it Yourself.... by ddrichardson · · Score: 1

      I take your point about the choice but in the UK site at least its easier to find Ubuntu (its on both the desktop and laptop drop down menus) than XP which is currently blank and recommending Vista.

      --
      A thistle is a fat salad for an ass's mouth...
    2. Re:You Gotta Do it Yourself.... by kenh · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not that hard to find Open Source/Ubuntu systems on the Dell US site:

      Open www.dell.com, choose "For Home", then click "Laptop" from the drop-down menu. Open Source systems are linked under the heading "PC Operating Systems" on the left side menu (bottom of menu).

      Or, www.dell.com, choose "For Office > Small Business", then click "Desktop" from the drop-down menu. Open Source systems are listed under "FreeDOS and Linux Desktops"

      Now, as for the selection of systems, I'm happy with the systems they offer ($WORK just bought a fleet of new "N Series" desktops (Optiplex 755n to be exact), and there was a fine selection of hardware/upgrades available (including ATI discrete graphics cards)...

      If they really wanted to hide them, they could have done a much better job of it... I think if I were truely looking for a system with no OS/Ubuntu, I could find it quite easily.

      --
      Ken
    3. Re:You Gotta Do it Yourself.... by hasbeard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, since if you buy Ubuntu you aren't getting a Windows system, it isn't an insinuation, it is the truth. I have read the page you are talking about, and it seems to be their intent is to make sure people know what they are buying.

    4. Re:You Gotta Do it Yourself.... by howlingmadhowie · · Score: 1
      if they wanted to write the truth they'd have this written on every page where you can buy a computer with vista:

      the main thing to know about windows vista is that it's an operating system we wouldn't be selling if microsoft hadn't stopped letting us sell xp.

      the thing is, you read every line of their ubuntu-warning page and you just know, it had to be okayed by microsoft.

    5. Re:You Gotta Do it Yourself.... by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      just *try* to find the few systems that Dell has deemed to have Ubuntu installed on.. Not easy at all..

      On dell.de I enter "linux" in the search box. Then it shows me laptops, desktops, rackmounts, printers, and so on. I also get results for support info, helpfiles, etc. In the frame on the left I can limit the search results to specific categories (Server:27, Desktops: 10, Laptops: 3, and so on).

      Are other dell domains different?

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    6. Re:You Gotta Do it Yourself.... by nappingcracker · · Score: 1

      If you buy a Vista laptop (or XP if you can still find one) with the intention of NEVER using Windows at all, don't agree to the EULA when you first boot it up, decline everything, and at least attempt to get a refund. Even if you don't have the patience to see it all the way through to getting a refund for the unused OS license (read the EULA, most suggest that refunds are available from the manufacturer) you will show the company that they might want to make a bigger effort to truly offer alternatives to OS bundles. Save them money in supporting the refund case, save money on sending the refund, offer a "lower" price to the consumer (while still saving money).

      Companies only know how you are using their products when you tell them, and they _really_ know when they give you money back for products you don't want, but had no choice about getting.

      Old news for some, new for others. I have been reading posts of people getting $200 refunds after fighting for the refund listed in the Vista EULA. Too bad they had to really fight for it (many levels of support, escalation, runaround, bullshit, etc), but it makes that inexpensive $500 laptop reeeally inexpensive.

      --
      |plastic....or gasoline?|
  4. not really by A+little+Frenchie · · Score: 1, Informative

    Canadian website

    I just did a quick test, the Inspiron 1525(Windows) and 1525N(Linux)

    same specs, the Linux system cost 350$ more than the windows one

    http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=windowsol0.jpg
    http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=linuxmq5.jpg

    1. Re:not really by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      Tomorrow you'll see the exact opposite. It's just Dell and their weird pricing.

      --
    2. Re:not really by RedK · · Score: 1

      You don't even have the same processor in both machines. Good going.

      --
      "Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
      Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
    3. Re:not really by nschubach · · Score: 3, Informative

      Who would have figured processors would be so different in price...

      I redid your test on the US site using the SAME hardware:
      Windows ($824): http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1341/dellwindowsze8.png
      Ubuntu ($749): http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3127/dellubuntusp9.png

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    4. Re:not really by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Also, Maybe you forgot to leave the service contract section of the page in your screen capture on purpose? You can easily get a $350 difference by putting a service contract on Ubuntu and not Windows.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  5. Motherboard? by XanC · · Score: 1

    Anybody know of a motherboard with HDMI out that supports audio? The closest I've seen is the Asus P5E-VM HDMI, but haven't been able to find anything definitive on HDMI audio support in Linux.

  6. HDMI is a nice step, but ... by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 1

    HDMI is a nice step, but how does it handle h.264 decoding? Does it have hardware decoding in the GPUs or simply work by CPU decoding? And in either case, what kind of performance does it deliver? 1080p easily? Choppy? 720p?

    --
    We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
    1. Re:HDMI is a nice step, but ... by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 1

      Any modern CPU can play 1080p h.264 easily, purely in software. My 2.5 year old Athlon X2 4200+ (2x 2.2 Ghz) can play 1080p h.264 content perfectly, with only ~85% CPU usage of one core (the other being entirely idle).

      --
      Game! - Where the stick is mightier than the sword!
    2. Re:HDMI is a nice step, but ... by Hektor_Troy · · Score: 2, Informative

      An Atom CPU is a modern CPU ... and I sincerely doubt that it could hand'e 1080p h.264 even at full speed.

      --
      We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
    3. Re:HDMI is a nice step, but ... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I think the standard companion chipset does 720p in hardware, but the CPU no way... honestly, it would be very nice to have a HW acceleration not only for making it happen at all but for power consumption too... having a CPU burn compared to a chip maybe giving off a watt or two does add up every time you watch a movie. It's not very often otherwise your CPU works hard for two hours straight.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  7. Re:Restore discs? by bmo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Your argument fails on 3 fronts:

    1. It presupposes that most/all elderly are stupid.

    2. It's easier to install the major Linux distributions than it is to install Windows of any flavor.

    3. The need for restore disks isn't as vital as for Windows.

          A. Windows users think it's normal to wipe and reinstall every quarter.
          B. Linux doesn't have a half-life/slowdown rate. See 4.

    4. The cause of needing restore disks is usually infection. While technically Linux is vulnerable to security problems, the number of "in the wild" Linux viruses is currently 0. Most, if not all, Linux trojans need some sort of user interaction to work. One needs to deliberately shoot one's self in the foot for them to work. Microsoft would do everyone a lot of favors in this department by abandoning Active Yecchs and abandoning the use of 3 magic letters at the end of a filename to determine executability.

    5. It's easier to remotely admin through ssh Great Aunt Midlred's Linux machine than it is to go over to her house. While that's more convenient, I guess the drawback is the lack of cookies. (case in point, I went over to a friend's house the other weekend because he screwed up flash and java. I could have done it from my house, but I wanted to hang out and have beer and chourico sandwiches).

    --
    BMO - We do what we must because we can

  8. Re:Restore discs? by bmo · · Score: 3, Funny

    And I can't count.

    Jeez..

    --
    BMO

  9. Perhaps this time the message will sink in by westlake · · Score: 1
    The Austin, Tex. company is also adding functionality to Ubuntu Linux [CC] on its desktops and laptops. It began by adding DVD-playback to its systems shipping with Ubuntu 7.10
    .

    Michael Robertson spent seven years trying to hammer this lesson home with Linspire and CNR.

    1. Re:Perhaps this time the message will sink in by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

      I see you have slashdotter installed in firefox.

      I really hate to constantly bash ubuntu, but it really should come with all this stuff OUT OF THE BOX. Sabayon comes with all of this stuff ready to go, and that's part of why I like it so much; i don't have to muck about with this shit.

      --
      Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
    2. Re:Perhaps this time the message will sink in by Knuckles · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ubuntu CANNOT legally provide them, and I guess you might see how a gratis OS cannot pay Fluendo or the DVD mafia for legit codecs. Dell can, with the customer's money.

      Also, besides DVD decryption, Ubuntu offers to install the required codecs when you want to play files that need them (but warns you that you are responsible for legality yourself). Besides, any Windows I have seen to this day came without divx codecs and Media Player failed to install them when it tried.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
  10. Re:Restore discs? by ddrichardson · · Score: 1

    That would be funny if it was true but Ubuntu installs from a Live CD system so its unlikely that situation would arise.

    --
    A thistle is a fat salad for an ass's mouth...
  11. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  12. Re:Restore discs? by superm1 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes they come with a framework for creating recovery disks as well as a recovery partition on the hard drive.

  13. Re:Restore discs? by tepples · · Score: 1

    It's easier to remotely admin through ssh Great Aunt Midlred's Linux machine than it is to go over to her house.

    Unless the problem is something that prevents the network from coming up. And how is X11 tunneled over SSH any better than Remote Assistance in Windows?

  14. Re:Restore discs? by PunkOfLinux · · Score: 1

    Ooh! first of all, ssh -x allows per program running. Second of all, is RA in windows even encrypted?

    Plus, Great Aunt Mildred should be told "don't fuck about".

    --
    Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
  15. Microsoft will stop them if it gets serious by Animats · · Score: 1

    Every time some big player starts pushing Linux, Microsoft makes it go away. Wal-Mart has sold Linux machiens twice, then backed off; they no longer seem to sell any Linux machines. Fry's has stopped selling Linux machines.

    Go to the Dell site and try to find a Linux laptop. It's quite hard to find. Even when you finally find the Ubuntu page, for which you will probably have to search, the first thing you see is "Not sure Open Source is for You? The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don't get a Windows® operating system. If you're here by mistake and you are looking for a Dell PC with Windows, please use the following link..."

    You never get to a Linux PC from the "laptop selector", even though Dell does offer them.

    1. Re:Microsoft will stop them if it gets serious by JoeCommodore · · Score: 1

      I think many of the WalMart Linux machines were retrurned by people thinking computer == run all the software WalMart sells. The best market for general public Linux users are those who don't need to constantly play the latest game or just for email, office work, such as grandparents or young kids - they would welcome something that does not get messed up all the time.

      --
      "Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
    2. Re:Microsoft will stop them if it gets serious by Taxman415a · · Score: 1

      Go to the Dell site and try to find a Linux laptop. It's quite hard to find.

      It's not quite advertised now, but it is much easier to get to them than it was when they were launched. Before you had to search for them or know they were there. Now it's not far off the main page. On dell.com choose the 'Home and Home office' or the 'Small and Medium Business' link then when you run over the Laptops and Desktops menus at the top what do you see? "Open-source Laptops' and desktops. So it's not wildly out in the open, but that's not as hidden as it was. Those menus are on most of the shopping pages.

      For all I know there's something in the mainpage menus but I can't see them, they go behind the large image in FF3.

      And the argument that MS will stop them is losing ground when you consider the netbooks and so forth that have been shipping with Linux. As soon as there is a business case for it MS won't have much say in the matter.

    3. Re:Microsoft will stop them if it gets serious by irussel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Go to the Dell site and try to find a Linux laptop. It's quite hard to find.

      um, maybe try http://www.dell.com/ubuntu?

    4. Re:Microsoft will stop them if it gets serious by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      I've personally thought that a good market for Linux users would be those console gamers who:

      1. Like a good PC port now and then.
      2. But play consoles because they don't want to have to spend a lot of time and money on gaming and want something that just works.
      3. And are geeky enough to be willing to read a few books or join message boards to learn how to use Linux.

      Heck maybe they could be encouraged to install Linux on their gaming console. Admittedly that gaming console would most likely be a PS3 since it's the easiest to get Linux on.

  16. Re:Restore discs? by bmo · · Score: 1

    "And how is X11 tunneled over SSH any better than Remote Assistance in Windows?"

    Nothing, really, since it's just an implementation of X11 networking ideas.

    Seriously though, it took a long time for Microsoft to just catch up to the functionality of X11 over a network. (btw, don't even mention RA over XP Home Edition unless you want to be seriously laughed at)

    Besides, /can/ you pipe RA over ssh?

    --
    BMO

  17. Dell are using non free software by kipman725 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    These decoders are non free software, to me this breaks the spirit of the linux comunity.

    1. Re:Dell are using non free software by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      What's the alternative?

      1) Risk licensing lawsuit from codec owners
      or
      2) Ship without codec support.

      If you want your linux to suck. Uninstall.

    2. Re:Dell are using non free software by Glonoinha · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When I was young I had an older man explain to me "I strongly disagree with what you are saying, but I would fight to the death for your right to say it."
      Perhaps the spirit of the Linux community would be better served by promoting true software freedom, including the freedom to use non-free software in order to do what a Linux user wants to do.

      That is, after all, what freedom is all about.

      --
      Glonoinha the MebiByte Slayer
    3. Re:Dell are using non free software by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      The "Free" software is also supposedly illegal as they didnt pay the mathematics patent fees.

      Dell is only doing things legal. I cant blame them for that, nor can the MPEG2 patent holders.

      --
    4. Re:Dell are using non free software by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Wah, wah, wah. This is the same retarded thing we hear every time someone does something that isn't FOSS in Linux. Guess what, man? The vast majority of the world just wants their shit to work. We don't give a flying fuck if it's "free software" or not, because we aren't ever going to need the ability to modify it. We just want it to do what we want it to do. The entire mindset of free software zealots is off-base: the highest goal is functionality, not ideology. The zealots may put ideology first, but, well, they're zealots, and there's a reason they're a small portion of the population.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    5. Re:Dell are using non free software by cptnapalm · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily... Many Linux users tend to be pragmatic, preferring FOSS, but not insistent on it.

      I do appreciate your views, don't misunderstand.

    6. Re:Dell are using non free software by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      You've only hit on part of what free software is about. It's also about being unencumbered by patent messes, so the same code isn't reimplemented in a dozen different ways, and programmers aren't figuring out work-arounds for existing patents.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  18. Re:You must be new here. by nickthisname · · Score: 1

    You are new here.

  19. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  20. Re:You must be new here. by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

    >> Elderly people STILL predominately vote Republican, and at THIS POINT, that is clearly stupid.

    Not HALF as stupid as voting for the other pant-load..

    We have two bad choices.. One's a steaming pile of cow-dung and the other one is merely a pile of barf.. I can tell you which one *I'll* choose, come November... It SURE won't be Obama-Mama!!

    --
    THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
  21. using Dell as a good example? by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

    Look, it's great they offer the option to get Ubuntu preinstalled, but you might want to look at what exactly they're doing before holding them up as a good example. If you go through the build process for an XPS1330, you'll find that there are FAR fewer hardware options available when building a Ubuntu-based machine compared to a Vista-based machine, and I'm not talking about hardware for which there may not be drivers, either. Fewer CPU options, storage options, etc. It's completely ridiculous, and it probably took more effort for them to eliminate those options than it would have to make the same hardware options available between the two OSs. I can't say I'm all that impressed yet with Dell's Ubuntu offerings, though it's better than nothing.

  22. Mr. Language Person says by yomegaman · · Score: 2, Informative

    "Codices" is the plural of codex (i.e. book), not codec. Unless the summary really does mean that Dell is throwing in a collection of books from Fluendo about the mp3, wma, and wmv formats, in which case I apologize.

    --
    ...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
    1. Re:Mr. Language Person says by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Dell supplies the codices so that people won't get virii on their boxen.

  23. Not that new.... by crhylove · · Score: 1

    My /. ID # is less than a third of yours!

    --
    I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
  24. Hey Michael, how about more Ubuntu Desktops? by angrykeyboarder · · Score: 1

    Why don't you offer Ubuntu on your XPS Desktop line?

    The Ubuntu desktop box you are offering now is rather paltry by comparison.

    If I were buying a Windows Desktop box from you, I'd be getting an XPS for sure.

    I'm very happy that Dell is offering Ubuntu. It's good for everyone. But please give Linux users more of the model choices that you offer with Windows.

    --
    Scott

    ©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
    1. Re:Hey Michael, how about more Ubuntu Desktops? by planetoid · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure the XPS line is targeted toward gamers.

      Get more games ported on Linux... I don't know who's picked this torch up ever since Loki went under.

      --
      Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
    2. Re:Hey Michael, how about more Ubuntu Desktops? by angrykeyboarder · · Score: 1

      Gamers and Enthusiasts.

      But the low-end XPS is also just a nice multimedia PC.

      More expansion slots and so forth.

      I actually could care less about games. I'd buy an XPS Desktop if I were buying a Dell PC because it gives me the options I want.

      At the very least, a GPU and a sound card.

      Oh and Ubuntu *is* an option with the XPS notebook.

      --
      Scott

      ©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
  25. This is crap! by the_1000th_Monkey · · Score: 1

    Who calls it "codices"?

    --
    where'd my typewriter go?
  26. ... Mine's bigger! by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 1

    You've been misinformed...

    Trust me, ladies like it bigger, not smaller.

    1. Re:... Mine's bigger! by crhylove · · Score: 1

      Trust me, when the number is AGE, neither women nor men really want it to be much over 20.

      --
      I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
  27. Re:Not as new as people think..... by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 1

    good luck with that. While you're at it, why not reinstate prohibition and take the vote away from women?

  28. Re:Restore discs? by The+Ancients · · Score: 1

    Your argument fails on 3 fronts:

    1. It presupposes that most/all elderly are stupid.

    No it doesn't. I was talking about Great Aunt Mildred - not anyone else.

    You went past presupposing there. Who mentioned all old people, and who mentioned stupidity? Ignorance - in the true sense of the word - is not the same as stupidity. Most don't know how linux differs from Windows, et al.

    Oh, and it was a funny. It's ok - I like (and use for some machines) linux too

    --
    The Mothership
  29. Re:Not as new as people think..... by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

    What the fuck is your point in dragging unrelated issues into the discussion? Just to set up strawmen?

    --
    "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
  30. Re:Restore discs? by Blackhalo · · Score: 1

    "The need for restore disks isn't as vital as for Windows." Ubuntu sucks in this regard. I purchased a Ubuntu laptop from Dell. It now sits dead due to the bad update that I got from Ubuntu that changed my video to an unsupported res and disabled audio. I know how to fix this in Windows. Press F8 to boot into safe mode. Dammed if I know how to fix it in Linux. This should be fixable from the GUI, but all the support I can find requires some kind of CLI fix. Fuck that. For Linux to be a "Real" OS anything that can be done via CLI should be doable in the GUI. Linux ain't there yet.

    --
    "There is nothing to do it. But to do it." -Floyd Pepper
  31. Re:Restore discs? by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

    There is a lot of "admin" work you can't do with SSH - specifically, anything involving the GUI. And lackluster protocols like VNC don't cut it.

    Windows also has a nice 'remote admin' protocol called RDP (via Remote Assistance). IMO it's the bee's knees, and probably one of the best/only half decent things about the Windows GUI system.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  32. More attractive? by IBBoard · · Score: 2, Funny

    When I read the headline I thought they meant Dell was re-branding it and removing the orange/brown!

    On a slightly more serious note, it's good to see that they're doing what the consumer needs and making things like MP3/DVD playback easier. Yes, it might upset some purists, but they can just buy the machine and wipe back to a default, or go for a machine from another company that can't afford to bundle the codecs.

  33. Wal-Mart by westlake · · Score: 1
    Every time some big player starts pushing Linux, Microsoft makes it go away. Wal-Mart has sold Linux machiens twice, then backed off; they no longer seem to sell any Linux machines. Fry's has stopped selling Linux machines.
    .

    WalMart has tried to make a go of every OEM Linux distro known to man.

    But inevitably the Linux product becomes the bottom feeder.

    The gOS system that ships without a working modem in a market that is often still dependent on dial-up. That is installed in the biggest case anyone can find to make it look more impressive. Rather like a flea-market stereo.

    the first thing you see is "Not sure Open Source is for You? The main thing to note is that when you choose open source you don't get a Windows® operating system"

    WalMart puts the same warnings on its web site.

    The Linux system gets a lukewarm send-off as a passable web browser. OpenOffice.org might get a sideline glance, but there has never, ever, been a link to a compatible printer.

  34. Re:She doesn't have to know... by ScreamingCactus · · Score: 1

    95% of computer users don't understand them. At all. That's the way the computer industry is, and most people just accept it. Sure, we encourage them to learn, but it doesn't mean they want to or have to. Just like the majority of geeks don't want to have to learn how to change their own oil or patch a hole in sheetrock (I think?), most computer users don't want to have to learn about the system in order to use it. They just want it to work, and when it doesn't, it's easier for them to pay someone else to fix it. Aunt Mildred doesn't care what OS she's using, she has one specific task she wants to do and that's all she cares about. If she has to learn the specifics of her hardware and OS to make it work then it's not worth her time.

    Of course the teenager working at Best Buy probably didn't think to ask her if she was running Linux, hell, he probably didn't even know what it was. Try to see it from her point of view.

    --
    The path to enlightenment is truly through homemade drugs!
  35. Customization? by Yfrwlf · · Score: 1

    Installing certain programs by default? That's what a distro is. As long as I can so-called "customize" my system by installing any of these programs that Dell is installing, I'll be fine. You don't need to buy a Dell computer to get certain programs though, unless they're the only provider and they aren't open sourced and you can't buy just the program from them, or unless you simply want those programs to be default. I'll take anything over Windows when I buy a complete computer, since I don't use it, and certainly having a good default program selection is a perk if that's the software you want.

    --
    Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
  36. Re:Restore discs? by bmo · · Score: 1

    I know I have been trolled, but what the hell:

    "And lackluster protocols like VNC don't cut it."

    You /do/ know that X11 is /meant/ to be used over a network? I'm not talking about VNC. I'm talking about raw X11 piped over SSH, for deliciously encrypted graphical sessions from one side of the planet to the other. And guess what, it's /efficient/ too.

    But not only that, Linux speaks RDP too. Yeah, we get to talk to inferior Windows systems with their own language.

    http://www.rdesktop.org/

    Coming out and implying that VNC is all us Linux users have to work with is such bullshit.

    "admin" work you can't do with SSH"

    Like what? List something specific.

    "anything involving the GUI."

    Unlike Windows, configuring a Linux (or unix in general, including OS/X) machine does /not/ require access to the GUI. A GUI is nice sometimes, but if you want to do /real/ work, a command line is so much nicer. Oh yeah, and one of the latest/greatest things about Windows is Power Shell. Funny how Microsoft had to "reinvent" a command line interpreter/shell. So much for the GUI being the be-all/end-all of interfaces.

    --
    BMO

  37. Re:Are they good? are they bad? what is in vogue n by howlingmadhowie · · Score: 1
    i think you meant to write the following:

    So, is it finally "trendy" to provide *the manufacturers with our tacit approval to turn gnu/linux into a second windows*?

  38. Re:I've fallen down and I can't get up by bmo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "The OEM system install is the gold standard in the home and SOHO market"

    Hahahahahahahahaah!

    "Microsoft to ratchet IE8 security another notch in Beta 2"

    First off, it's Beta, meaning Alpha in the rest of the known universe outside of 1 Microsoft Way, Redmond. And nobody outside of 1 Microsoft Way, Redmond uses it.

    Secondly, How does this mitigate what Active Yecchs has done for the past 12 years? Think for a minute about the wasted time, tears, and money fighting against this goatse sized security hole. And now Microsoft is /slowly/ trying to close the gate 12 years after the horses have bolted?

    12 years of hosing customers with the contents of a factory-farm sewage lagoon. Good gawd. How do you put up with that? How?

    Thirdly, how is it in this day and age that a bunch of data can be pulled out of the ether and be *automatically* set to "executable" because it has the right 3 letters in the filename? Eh? This outmoded way of handling executability from the CP/M days should be filed away to the great bit-pile in the sky. Paired with Active Yecchs, black-hats everywhere have had boatloads of fun with Windows systems, and Microsoft is dead set against changing either of these in any basic way.

    So when Windows 7 comes out, expect at least another 5 years or so of the same bullshit.

    Good luck with that.

    --
    BMO

    P.S. At last check, the total number of Windows evil-ware was over 5 million. Has it reached 6 million yet? How many cores do you need to run NAV?

  39. Us nerds have it backwards by What+Is+Dot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    After using Linux for a couple of years, it has become very clear to me that most Linux distributions run under the philosophy that they should distribute the bare minimum to allow the users to build up their custom drivers and software collection. Instead, shouldn't they distribute as MUCH as possible to increase compatibility? Knowledge is a burden. The people who don't know every little detail about their hardware shouldn't have to go through the extra work to get it working. It's the nerds, like us, who should know what we DON'T need, so we can remove it and optimize efficiency.

    1. Re:Us nerds have it backwards by Splab · · Score: 1

      The problem is you then get marked as bloated, and since it's geeks recommending distros said distro will probably not get recommended.

    2. Re:Us nerds have it backwards by johndmartiniii · · Score: 1

      Really, it doesn't matter either way, provided that you preserve scalability. Whether you start at the bare minimum or at max bloat, as long as you can move to someplace in the middle, things work out. One front that could help to get more folks using Linux is education. Old and young are just as capable of learning.

      --
      If you don't know what you're doing, you can't make mistakes.
  40. Re:Restore discs? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    Besides, /can/ you pipe RA over ssh?

    Yes I do it through an SSH tunnel from a remote linux box running rdesktop. The tunnel is configured with gSTM and it terminates at my in house server. From there normal RDP traffic goes to our CAD workstation which runs windows.

    Its a way of remotely accessing the CAD system when away from home with a laptop.

    --
    http://michaelsmith.id.au
  41. Re:Restore discs? by Knuckles · · Score: 1

    Well, Dell support should know, and fix it under warranty, really. Also, did you do _anything_ to try and find out how to fix it, like use Google? If that happened to your Dell, I doubt you are the only one.

    --
    "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
  42. Re:She doesn't have to know... by Your.Master · · Score: 1

    The only way for Linux to ever get significant desktop market share is if notions like yours are eliminated, or at least, marginalized.

  43. Loving it. by crhylove · · Score: 1

    I think reinstating prohibition would be pointless, since that's already the existing situation with marijuana. But I enjoy your creative approach.

    --
    I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
  44. Re:-1 FUD by atraintocry · · Score: 1

    You misunderstood me...of course you can find them if you know where to look (dell.com/linux or the menu options you mentioned), but the chances are very low that someone who didn't know what linux is could go to dell.com and end up buying a linux machine. If you stick to the usual "desktop system", "laptop system" options, it's all Vista until you intentionally navigate away from those.

  45. Re:Don't forget... by Knuckles · · Score: 1

    Really, you are still doing this after a story is a few days old already? Weird.

    --
    "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
  46. Re:Restore discs? by eechuah · · Score: 1

    Ehh, have you TRIED x11 piped over SSH from one side of the planet to the other? It's not even usable. That's why projects like NX exist.

  47. Ubuntu is READY! by Ignatius+D'Lusional · · Score: 1

    Well, I gotta say, after recently making a full switch on my main desktop from XP to Ubuntu, Linux is really ready for the average consumer now. If Dell computers came pre-configured with Ubuntu, I pretty much guarantee it would gain popularity. The only issues right now are that Hardy Heron comes with Firefox 3.0, which is pretty crippled due to some bugs that cause constant crashing, but with Firefox 2, it would be a real winner!