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Debian's Testing Branch Nears Completion
DeviceGuru writes "With Debian Lenny (aka 'testing') poised to displace Etch as the popular Linux distribution's 'stable' branch possibly as soon as next month, blogger Rick Lehrbaum loaded the latest preview (beta 2) of Lenny's KDE CD image onto an available Thinkpad, and took it for a spin. How's it coming along? After detailing a handful of issues — and offering solutions for each (except Bluetooth support) — he concludes: 'Other than the need for a few hacks and fixes, my main complaint with it is its inclusion of way too many of KDE's rich set of applications, such as games, tools, etc.' From the looks of it, looks like Lenny might be the new 'Debian stable' soon!"
Like ubuntu, it is impossible for it to provide fellatio. As I understand it, you generally have to pay for that sort of service, and linux is (mostly) free.
Like KDE games, I don't want them. If I try to remove them, then this:
# apt-get remove kdegames
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
knetwalk kpat ksokoban kolf blinken krdc krec libdb4.6++ krfb kscd kppp kshisen kmoon kmahjongg ksig
ksim libkscan1 kwifimanager kcharselect kjumpingcube kdeartwork-style kregexpeditor kcoloredit
artsbuilder kdessh kanagram ktip kdeprint kmrml katomic ksvg kscreensaver kruler ktux klettres
kgoldrunner kbackgammon kpoker libkiten1 ksnapshot kpackage kooka kenolaba kblackbox kdebase
atlantikdesigner klatin kfloppy kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kstars ksame konqueror-nsplugins kbruch kpager
libkdegames1 kde-core kcalc keduca klipper kdemultimedia-kappfinder-data kdeadmin-kfile-plugins kweather
kmplot kalzium ksirc ksysguard klickety kpovmodeler ksayit kmouth noatun-plugins kworldclock mpeglib
kdewebdev kmenuedit kicker-applets amor kdict ktouch khexedit ksplash kdeaccessibility kedit kbounce
kvoctrain kdetoys kdenetwork-kfile-plugins kimagemapeditor atlantik kbstate kwordquiz kcron kview ktron
kdenetwork kttsd dcoprss ksysv kwin4 kuser kdeaddons kreversi kdf kspaceduel kig kpf juk noatun kdnssd
klines kdemultimedia-kfile-plugins fifteenapplet kdemultimedia kfaxview lskat libarts1-mpeglib
kaddressbook-plugins kviewshell kgamma kdeutils khelpcenter kdegraphics khangman knetworkconf
kdeartwork-theme-window ksmiletris konq-plugins kbattleship libpoppler-qt2 kiconedit kdeadmin kasteroids
kfouleggs libkdeedu3 kwalletmanager kopete ksnake kdelibs kiten kappfinder eyesapplet kdat kate kdeedu
kdelirc kpercentage superkaramba kjots kfax ksirtet kmines kdvi kget kuickshow kgpg konquest
kate-plugins kolourpaint kmousetool kdeaddons-kfile-plugins libarts1-xine kmag kmilo ktuberling kturtle
kaudiocreator ktimer kmid kteatime kverbos kdepasswd kmix kdeartwork kodo
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
The following packages will be REMOVED:
kde kdegames
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
After this operation, 90.1kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?
Why is it removing KDE?
Same for Pilot:
# apt-get remove kpilot
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
knetwalk kpat ksokoban kolf blinken krdc krec korn libdb4.6++ krfb kscd kppp kshisen kmoon kmahjongg
ksig ksim libkscan1 kwifimanager kcharselect kjumpingcube kdeartwork-style kregexpeditor kcoloredit
artsbuilder kdessh kanagram ktip kdeprint kmrml katomic kleopatra ksvg kscreensaver kruler ktux klettres
kgoldrunner kbackgammon kpoker kdepim-kfile-plugins libkiten1 ksnapshot kpackage kooka kenolaba
kblackbox kdebase atlantikdesigner konsolekalendar klatin kfloppy kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kstars ksame
konqueror-nsplugins kbruch kpager kdepim-kio-plugins libkdegames1 kde-core kcalc keduca klipper kandy
kdemultimedia-kappfinder-data kontact kdeadmin-kfile-plugins kweather kmplot kalzium ksirc ksysguard
klickety kpovmodeler ksayit kmouth kalarm noatun-plugins kworldclock mpeglib kdewebdev kmenuedit
kdegames kicker-applets amor kdict ktouch ktnef khexedit ksplash kdeaccessibility kedit kbounce
kvoctrain korganizer kdetoys kdenetwork-kfile-plugins kimagemapeditor atlantik kbstate akregator
kwordquiz kcron kview ktron kdenetwork kttsd dcoprss ksysv kwin4 libksieve0 kuser kdeaddons krever
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
It's only been sixteen months since Etch was released, not three years! Something's wrong!
Someone, please think of the children, and tell this guy about using PNG for screenshots!
if you want something like debian that isn't as cutting edge but stable, use freebsd it's far better. i admin'd freebsd boxes for years and it was a joy to work with.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
It's the current testing branch, installed using the second beta of the Debian-Installer version to be included in Lenny. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Actually, Ubuntu is built off of Debian Sid, which is 'unstable'.
However, I am assuming that you already knew that and were merely attempting to (unsuccessfully) troll.
I'm a little leery of this, since I've rendered ubuntu desktop systems unbootable by doing 2 and 3 -- and was told that it was because I should have done 1.
Find free books.
Like all of the Debian users 'round here already know, from the archive there's a kde-core (meta) package:
This meta-package includes the core official modules released with KDE. This includes just the basic desktop (browser, file manager, text editor, control center, panel, etc.) and important libraries and data, in addition to the aRts soundserver.
And then there's a kde package "all-included" for those who want a quick "all-included" KDE desktop setup. That's as it is now, as it was before Etch, and Lenny will do the same. Just let those nice devs sort the packages and the dependencies as they float in the testing branch, no need for panic.
Seriously, this "stable" branch is now so out of date as to be useless.
OK, so the gentleman downloaded and installed the *KDE* version of Debian Lenny, and then says his main complaint "is its inclusion of way too many of KDE's rich set of applications, such as games, tools, etc."
I can understand that; I once installed Windows XP, but there were far too many Microsoft applications for my liking.
Even if possible, I don't upgrade boxes that I can't get physical access to, or at least hit via an IP KVM so that reinstallation via CD is possible.
But I'm just really conservative on that.
Debian is mainly used as a server OS, it isn't generally held up as a shining example of how Linux is ready for the desktop. It is fairly widely used in production environments, and by developers and other geeky types, and it is considered an excellent stable base for other, more specialised distros. Like, for example, Ubuntu -- which is more than "ready" for the desktop.
In order to criticize in a meaningful way, one needs to know the subject at hand. Otherwise, you're just trolling and making inappropriate noise. And really, "freetards"? What kind of "tard" does that make you then? :) [HINT: This is a geek forum.]
Caveat Utilitor
I for one (in addition to welcoming our KDE overlords) think it is great that games are being included by default. More distros need to do this. Every LiveCD should be able to show people that Windows isn't the only OS where you can waste time playing Solitaire. A LiveCD/default install that doesn't have this is probably going to feel like an incomplete system to the average desktop user.
I am currently running Debian, I just want to expand my horizons a bit.
And I have never quite figured out configuring WiFi through the CLI.
As opposed to a Windows Xp install this week. Win XP slipstreamed with SP3 on a MSI VR700 notebook that is sold as Vista only by MSI. There is no physical restriction on the notebook it's just they don't supply drivers in a readily accessible place.
Install XP, Display is marginal 1024x768 default VGA supported but not the native resolution (Intel 945GM chipset). No Ethernet, Wireless or Audio and I was never expecting the Web cam to work. Much hunting round for a day or so and everything is configured but this would have been impossible without some hardware knowlege. Don't tell me that Windows "Just Works"
Oh and BTW I found out the hardware confguration from an Ubuntu Live CD (8.04 & 7.10) where the hardware actually did "Just Work". Display Ethernet, Wireless and Audio all worked perfectly immediately from boot. I'll admit I didn't try the webcam.
This argument surrounding the effort required to make an O/S support the hardware is just bullshit. I would rate XP and Linux on par at least. A recent Linux Distro is generally better as it includes all the drivers. Vista, well good luck with that
No, actually neither of those facts are relevant. The branch that Ubuntu comes from is irrelevant. Ubuntu is quite stable in its own right.
Why this is a troll but the BSD post isn't is beyond me.
Debian isn't ready for the desktop? It's one of the most user friendly distros out there. Installing it is dead simple and once you install kde/gnome/etc. it's no different from anything else.
Nowhere did I say that, but since you ask: depends upon whose desktop. I put my Mom on Ubuntu, and wouldn't dream of putting her on Debian. I'm not going to teach her to use synaptic, much less apt. Plus the drivers, default configs, and things like the Ubuntu update manager make all the difference for the non-geek user. Personally, I do use Debian for several of my desktop machines, but I was using it back when we had to install with dselect, so I know the CLI well enough that Ubuntu just feels a bit bloaty to me. Not that it's bloaty for a non-geek, who's probably used to winXP. It's all relative.
Caveat Utilitor
Why this is a troll but the BSD post isn't is beyond me.
Probably because Ubuntu is for lamoes that can't use a fucking computer properly, whereas BSD is actually an old-skool UNIX system that every true geek should honor and revere, even if they wouldn't be seen dead using it.
It's clearly a joke. Hope this gets nuked in M2!
Nick
"Other than the need for a few hacks and fixes".
This is on a blog post that has appendices.
Command attempted to use minibuffer while in minibuffer
I read The Fine Article; a few comments on the author's article:
Iceweasel
=-=-=-=-=
One of the complaints is that he wants "real" Firefox rather than the renamed Iceweasel. Well, until the Mozilla Foundation says differently, that isn't possible. Mozilla withdrew their prior permission to ship Firefox with a replaced logo that fit the Debian Free Software Guidelines, and the only way to comply with both Mozilla and the DFSG was to rename the application. So if you want to complain about this, write to Mozilla. I think Debian totally made the right choice to rename.
Shorter explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat
Longer explanation:
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=354622
Playing a DVD
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The author wasn't able to test playing a DVD; normal movie DVDs that use encryption won't play out of the box. This is because Debian cannot ship libdvdcss2 as part of the main distribution for legal reasons, same as other distributions. There are other external repositories (outside of the US) that contain libdvdcss2 -- but it may not be legal to import the package into the US. You might find some choices if you put "Debian" and "multimedia" into Google and see what comes up.
Modem
=-=-=-=
Wow, the author set up the POTS modem. When is the last time you had to use one of those? Gotta give him credit for going through that effort.
- Chris
> suck my dick.
wat
Everyone becomes conservative with upgrades after the first time that a box 3000 miles away fails to come back up. Seriously, waiting for a remote reboot after a kernel update is always the longest two minutes of my life.
Even the headless boxes at my apartment wait for me to set aside time to haul out a monitor and keyboard if anything goes wrong during an update. It's better to assume that something will go wrong and be pleasantly surprised and ahead of schedule than to sit staring at pings that have been timing out for the last five minutes (while you think, maybe it's just taking a long time to init... yeah, right!).
And, regardless of what anyone says, a virtual machine test environment doesn't have anywhere near the complications that you get with heavy metal. A successful virtual machine test just means that nothing is assured to go wrong, nothing more.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
It's not Beta 2 of Lenny. Only the installation program is Beta 2. So that's a big mistake.
And the mistakes continue.
The advice to remove iceweasel and replace it with Firefox is crazy. Iceweasel is 99.99% Firefox, and the version that comes with Debian is optimised to use libraries and other software in the distribution (like spell check). If you follow the advice and use the mozilla version of firefox, you lose this integration.
Some sites "sniff" for browser type, and iceweasel is not detected as Firefox (wsj.com, google docs). This is easily fixed by going to about:config, searching for useragent, and changing "iceweasel" to "firefox".
All firefox extensions that I know of work with iceweasel.
To install acrobat reader, just add the http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ repositories, and add the package acroread with Synaptic or apt-get.
> no bluetooth.
not true. bluetooth since 2001.
Nice try troll.
This is not good.They actually managed to get a new Debian version out before I got laid...
C|N>K
Be my guest and show us you're a true geek ;)
What the fuck is wrong with you, twitter? A reason for not mentioning decss, apart from the fact that it's off topic for the article, is that no one uses it anymore. It's been replaced by better means. If you've decided to play a free software zealot, you should at least try not being a total moron about it. Whining about lack of mention for decss in an article about the upcoming release of Debian today is like whining about lack of mention of the latest Windows ME innovations in a preview of Windows 7. Oh can it be because of the ongoing antitrust trials? It's just retarded.
I don't normally notice your comments, but I can see why most people who do consider you to be a total fucking idiot.
It's all in the context, see. "suck my dick" is not enticing at all, no. But when it forms part of a paragraph where the legendary twitter is commingling robotic, mindless praise of FOSS (d3bian uber alles), offtopic buzzword bingo (decss FTW), derision for "teh man" (DMCA OMGWTFBBQ) and the oh-ever-so-slight Microsoft jibe, then "suck my dick" becomes much more palatable.
To use a completely inappropriate analogy, it's like someone offering you a steaming hog turd on a plate. Ew, you say. Yuck! you cry out. Yes, indeed. But dab a little Cool-Whip (TM) on it... and your outcome changes completely! See?
Combine that with the timeless .sig line and... well, you're looking at one of the timeless classics.
Stick with me, kid. You'll be figuring out twitter posts in no time.
Our servers were only upgraded to etch 6 months ago. While the upgrade process itself is quick and painless, checking every last detail to make sure the system is ready for customer use is a PITA, and I'd really rather stick with what we have + security updates :(
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
I second that.
At my work we have 40 linux boxes all running debian etch. ( with plesk ) And so far it has been a very nice experience.
The three most current stories have them.. Why?
I have a question about Graphics Cards.
I have an NVidia something ancient on my computer. I'm not a graphics guy and this box is being reclassified as more server than anything else.
Fancy graphics cards that are a pain to use under Linux are not for me. NVidia has been nice but it's a pain to maintain between patches and it's quickly fallen into a pattern of not being supported. So I haven't really much need for this.
What I'm in the market for is a card that is of decent performance, readily supported by X (or is it XFree86?) and is a decent balance between costing less than all other components combined and actually doing something.
There used to be enigmail support for iceape, but now only for icedove.
Organization: alphabetical, sometimes numerical or messy
I understand that, and as I said, I use it myself. But in a work environment an end user usually doesn't admin the box, and thus does not see that side of it. While many people do find Debian simple to admin, it isn't reasonable to expect people like my mother to do it. Debian is relatively user-friendly, but not "ready for your mom" user-friendly (well, depends on your mom. My mom started out pointing the mouse at the monitor as if it was a remote). Anyway, that's why Ubuntu is so successful. They fill a gap in the marketplace, and provide a nice community of helpful people who aren't telling non-geeks to "RTFA" -- which, incidentally, was never meant to be a proper response to end users. That is something we "pros" often forget. We were told to RTFA because a pro needs to RTFA. An end user should not be expected to do that, and if you tell them to, you do FOSS as well as that end user a disservice, IMO. It's fine to show them the terminal, show them the man command, tell them about TFM, etc, but when you see their eyes glaze over, wrap it up and go back to showing them what they need to know, i.e. how to do what they always did in windows or whatever, how to add software, and how to upgrade.
I appreciate your love for Debian, but unless you've actually done those things in Ubuntu and in Debian, you probably cannot appreciate the difference it will make for non-geek end users.
Caveat Utilitor
Or maybe your boyfriend. Or just a friend.
Why should he add decss when he doesn't have a DVD drive?
Debian is mainly used as a server OS, it isn't generally held up as a shining example of how Linux is ready for the desktop. It is fairly widely used in production environments, and by developers and other geeky types, and it is considered an excellent stable base for other, more specialised distros. Like, for example, Ubuntu -- which is more than "ready" for the desktop.
Really, Debian is meant to be all things to all people. It makes a wonderful server, and a wonderful desktop. You just have to be willing to configure it as such.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
It's actually not quiet so hard, the main command you use to get connected to an access point is iwconfig. You use iwlist scan to search for wifi networks and connect using iwconfig INTERFACE essid WIFI-NAME key NETWORK-KEY. For example, an example would be iwconfig eth1 essid brianhome key 1654513490. Once connected, you'd use ifconfig or dhclient to establish an IP address. Continuing from the previous example, you would use dhclient eth1 for DHCP.
kernel: lp0 on fire
I put my Mom on Ubuntu
I'm in the process of doing the same. However, it may be short lived. She was having issues with her USB controller under XP, so I told her to give Ubuntu a try to see if it was a hardware or software issue. Its looking like its a hardware issue, but I just got her setup to dual-boot and haven't had a chance to really see what is going on. If she does buy something new, I doubt she'll stick with it "just because."
Not that it's bloaty for a non-geek, who's probably used to winXP
I think it is about "just right" for the non-geek but (as always) there is always room for improvement. If she does make "the switch" I'm sure that we'll end up using the system completely different and both end up learning more as a result. Example: I'm pretty sure it can be done via the GUI, but the only way I know how to find my IP address is via ifconfig...so after I was talking to her about how Ubuntu is so easy is to use within the first 5 minutes of her using the liveCD I had to tell her to break out the terminal. Like I said, there is probably a way to do it with the GUI that makes it look nice and pretty, but I don't know how to. Either way, I was able to login with Remote Desktop and get he at least up and running. This weekend will be the big challenge...wish me luck!
Something about the article itself. There is that saying (you don't have to agree, but still): "Ubuntu on the desktop, Debian on the server" and the summary talks mostly about KDE4 and games?!? This is just my personal opinion but as a (somewhat) Debian sysadmin, I'd really prefer that they focus on keeping things fast and stable instead of trying to throw in extra eye-candy, because the only Debian installs I've ever done were all going to be headless...
When I have a kid, I want to put him in one of those strollers for twins and then run around the mall looking frantic.
Right click on the network manager applet (the two computers together if you're wired or the blue staircase if you're wireless) then click "connection information".
Appart from the background colour I don't see how you could tell them apart.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Still, you get your -1 Troll for your "freetards" rant. Pity, you had a point that I was amazed not to see posted before.
Why is it so difficult to get this working? I recently installed Lenny on my lap top and everything but this worked from the install. Am I missing something?
so how do you do those at the same time? Maybe inverted. Please ellaborate
1. Debian new releases ALWAYS come with release notes that contain upgrade instructions. Follow them. It is usually NOT as simple as a dist-upgrade if you have certain packages installed.
2. Debian stable is generally pretty stable upon release, but feel free to wait a bit if it will make you more comfortable. Just make sure that your sources.list says "etch" and not "stable". When lenny is realeased, etch will become 'oldstable'.
So basically, you've got the right idea. To read the release notes, go to the Debian website and look for the text "If you're upgrading to the latest stable release from a previous version, please read the release notes before proceeding."
That's the best thing about Debian. As long as you at least put forth some degree of effort to RTFM, Debian won't give you many surprises. They make it easy to find and use the documentation.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
What kind of "tard" does that make you then? :) [HINT: This is a geek forum.]
OK, I'm stumped. What kind of a "tard" does that make him?
Congrats, MrHanky! You're already on twitter's enemies list! Don't be surprised when twitter's mom tracks you down to yell at you for being mean to her little boy at the playground.
Dependency problems will be solved RSN, probably, by Nix OS.
http://nixos.org/nixos/
"NixOS is a Linux distribution based on Nix, a purely functional package management system. NixOS is an experiment to see if we can build an operating system in which software packages, configuration files, boot scripts and the like are all managed in a purely functional way, that is, they are all built by deterministic functions and they never change after they have been built. Such an operating system should have all the nice characteristics that the Nix package manager has:
The entire system kernel, system services, configuration files, etc. is built by a Nix expression in a deterministic and repeatable way.
Since configuration changes are non-destructive (they donâ(TM)t overwrite existing files), you can easily roll back to a previous configuration. For instance, the Grub boot menu in NixOS allows the user to boot into any previous system configuration that hasnâ(TM)t been garbage collected yet. This is very nice if something goes wrong.
Upgrading a configuration is as safe as installing from scratch, since the realisation of a configuration is not stateful. This is a result of being purely functional.
Multi-user package management any user can install software through the same mechanisms that the administrator uses. This is not the case for most package managers such as RPM.
Furthermore, /bin. If there is no /bin, such a build script will fail."
NixOS allows us to verify that Nix packages are really pure. Nix prevents undeclared dependencies between packages in the Nix store, but when you run Nix on an existing OS such as SUSE Linux, Nix cannot prevent a build script from (say) calling programs in
Problem: nobody gives a shit. Because, you know, eeewwwww, they said "functional." I personally would not expect anything smart to come out Debian. Their technology stalled in the 90s.
Main difference between the BSD license and the GPL license: one is from California and the other is from Massachusetts
Probably a wintard, possibly an astroturftard as well. Oh, and certainly an anontard.
Oh, wait...
aaaahhhh! it's Christmas time! i can already smell the cookies! lekker,lekker lenny! deb will once again show the rest of the world the meaning of the word distribution. deb's after all the best. e basta!
there are still arroung 350 rc bugs, the intended release kernel version isn't in testing yet and the installer team haven't produced a release candidate yet.
Given all that I very much doubt they will have the release finished in a month and a half.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
It looks like you have not tried Ubuntu. Give the wubi a shot and install ubuntu as another application in windows (XP or Vista), it is just double clicking.
After a couple of days, tell us if you think that ubunto is not ready for the desktop.
I doubt it, Ian Murdok really likes to keep his wife to him self, but I can screw you in the ass with a red hot metal rod, if you like. Or even if you don't like. I know, I know, don't feed the trols, but I'd go hungry then ;)
I know full well that tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack