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New Details For StarCraft 2's Zerg

Blizzard had a playable demo of StarCraft 2 running at Leipzig, and Kotaku's Michael McWhertor had a chance to sit down and spend some time playing the Zerg. The Zerg weren't available in previous demos; the Protoss and Terran campaigns were showcased earlier. GameSpy took the opportunity to interview two Blizzard employees about what people can expect from the game. Gameplay footage is also available which shows a Terran vs. Zerg battle. Blizzard PR rep Bob Colayco had this to say: "One thing that's new, as you go through the campaign... you know, normally in RTS games how they start you off with a couple of units and then it's like, 'Okay, two missions later we're going to give you tanks...' One of the things we're looking at doing with StarCraft II's campaign is putting the choice more in the players' hands. So maybe you like dealing more with infantry? You can purchase those upgrades and make your marines and other infantry stronger. Or else you'll save up the credits you get from the missions to get tanks sooner than you normally could."

163 comments

  1. I will never forgive the Zerg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    For what they did to Kerrigan.

    1. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will never forgive Zerg... ...for what he did to my Buzz Lightyear action figure.

    2. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Me neither. I mean, what were they thinking, making her so freakin' awesome and all. Now, I can't stop thinking about her, and all other female video game protagonists have lost their appeal.

      Those damn zerg. *dreamy siiiiiigh*

    3. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by gardyloo · · Score: 1

      That was Tonya Harding.

    4. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For what they did to Kerrigan.

      Elevated her from being Mensk's pawn to the Queen of Blades? She already 'thanked' him for that.

    5. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by FuturePastNow · · Score: 4, Funny

      But, can you forgive the Klingons for what they did to your boy?

      --
      Give a man fire, and you warm him for the night. Set a man on fire, and you warm him for the rest of his life.
    6. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by ArcherB · · Score: 2, Funny

      Me neither. I mean, what were they thinking, making her so freakin' awesome and all. Now, I can't stop thinking about her, and all other female video game protagonists have lost their appeal.

      Those damn zerg. *dreamy siiiiiigh*

      Don't forget about the rogue chick in Diablo. Something about her voice makes her blow Kerrigan away. There is no way that Kerrigan could ever compete with that voice.

      (There's a joke in there somewhere)

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    7. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Bemopolis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Screw Kerrigan — consider what she did to Jennings.

      --
      "I guess the moral of the story is, don't paint your airship with rocket fuel." -- Addison Bain
    8. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Interestingly, the character was given the name "Kerrigan," because the badass chick from competing RTS Red Alert was named "Tanya"

    9. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I've always been thinking of making Kerrigan my bitch, probably add one more zergling for some 3P action.

    10. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a little slow... please explain this further, what does the name "Kerrigan" have to do with "Tanya"??

    11. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm a little slow... please explain this further, what does the name "Kerrigan" have to do with "Tanya"??

      Something to do with figure skating.

    12. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Bedouin+X · · Score: 5, Informative

      (There's a joke in there somewhere)

      Perhaps the fact that the same person voiced both characters?

      --
      Dissolve... Resolve... Evolve...
    13. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      For what they did to Kerrigan.

      Ice skating's a tough world, bitch.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    14. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Trails · · Score: 1

      Never mind Kerrigan, I still can't get over what the Zerg did to Aeris.

    15. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by ArcherB · · Score: 1

      (There's a joke in there somewhere)

      Perhaps the fact that the same person voiced both characters?

      We have a winner.

      I would have also accepted, "The voice-over actress's maiden name is 'Talken'!"

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    16. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 1

      World of Warcraft Burning Crusade - Sylvanas

      No wonder, I just love the range Sylvanas has and look forward to hearing the rest of her quest voice recordings.

      Jonah HEX

    17. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      I'll never forgive them for what they did to my barracks -- before it was even built!

    18. Re:I will never forgive the Zerg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      go back to your wow escapism, faggot. people like you are the reason that the new blizzard games are going to be utter shit.

  2. All well and good.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But when will SC2 be released? will it be another SC: Nova?

    1. Re:All well and good.. by Spring182 · · Score: 1

      The difference between Starcraft II and Starcraft: Ghost is that Starcraft Ghost was a spinoff, Starcraft II however is the sequel to one of the best selling video games of all time, they likely won't let Starcraft II hit Development Hell

      --
      This rather witty, clever. And not extremely obvious signature is precisely one hundred and twenty characters in length.
    2. Re:All well and good.. by Tridus · · Score: 1

      SC: Ghost was also being developed by another studio, and SC 2 is in house.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    3. Re:All well and good.. by bckrispi · · Score: 1

      Starcraft has had the best retail longevity of any game in history. It was released ten years ago. Ten years! And to this day, you can still find it for sale at just about any store. I can't think of any game that has stayed on store shelves for this long.

      --
      Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
  3. Re:lol by Silicon+Jedi · · Score: 1

    Tyranids Zerg.

  4. Hopefully it'll be fast-paced by BeardedClone · · Score: 1

    I love South Korean Starcraft competitions. They really know their stuff. Hopefully Starcraft 2 will be accepted by them. Hopefully it'll be as fast-paced as the first.

    1. Re:Hopefully it'll be fast-paced by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      Believe me. They're all drooling at the thought of getting their hands on it over here. You needn't worry.

  5. Nor will figure skating fans forgive Jeff Gillooly by tepples · · Score: 4, Funny
  6. Woah, all of a sudden the Zerg are out?!? by CaptainPatent · · Score: 5, Funny

    What's the rush??!?!

    --
    Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
    1. Re:Woah, all of a sudden the Zerg are out?!? by doyoulikeworms · · Score: 2, Funny

      I know! Can't a guy sit down and enjoy a NR 20 Year game once in a while?

    2. Re:Woah, all of a sudden the Zerg are out?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Zerg?

      Rush?

      KEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE ^__________^

      text added so I can add the correct amount of capital K's and E's.

    3. Re:Woah, all of a sudden the Zerg are out?!? by Daengbo · · Score: 2, Informative

      For the humor impaired, Ke ke ke is the romanization of the Korean text laugh. I'd type the real thing, but Slash won't accept it.

  7. Linked video... by MooseMuffin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...is in lower resolution than the actual original game, and then made worse by crappy encoding. You'd get a better idea for the game by firing up starcraft 1 than trying to watch this.

    1. Re:Linked video... by DanWS6 · · Score: 0

      All the screenshots I've seen have been lo-res as well. I guess no one told blizzard 800x600 is no longer the standard screen resolution. hah.

      Has there been any word on the resolution supported by SC2? I find playing SC painful now.

    2. Re:Linked video... by ockegheim · · Score: 0

      I could make things out just well enough to see the Zerg get comprehensively pwned by siege tanks. My advice:

      SPAWN MORE ZERGLINGS!

      --
      I’m old enough to remember 16K of memory being described as “whopping”
    3. Re:Linked video... by Trent05 · · Score: 4, Funny

      It always drove me up the wall playing with ppl who INSISTED on being Protoss and INSISTED on playing on a map with pretty much unlimited resources.

      Gee whiz, fighting Protoss yet again on a map that completely negates their weakness ($$). How fun.

      Hopefully they'll put in a few different balancing stats/players into this one.

      --


      --
      The Marines: The few, the proud, the not very bright. - Slashdot tagline 04/21/05
    4. Re:Linked video... by drik00 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IANAGP, but to my understanding, until the game engine (specifically in 3d games) is finalized and tuned and tweaked, the frames per second sucks ass, so its not a surprise the showing the game off in lower res so that it runs smoother. Judging only from WoW, they have a firm understanding on large resolutions, and wide-screen, God bless 'em.

      J

      --
      Beer, now there's a temporary solution -- Homer Jay S.
    5. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True. Protoss+unlimited resources own in the early game as you can build faster.
      Zergs + unlimited resources own in cramped infinite resource maps (More unit production per area) Just build and keep sending them out.
      Unless you know the more advanced terran defensive tactics, which would let you hold back most players.

    6. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
    7. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      http://www.gametrailers.com/player/39089.html

      Hi-Def video link

    8. Re:Linked video... by aliquis · · Score: 1

      The ones on the Starcraft 2 webpage use to be of acceptable quality, if it's not there yet it will get there I guess. (Not the reviewers of course, maybe he should had made it private and used Vimeo? =P)

    9. Re:Linked video... by PrimalChrome · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You're missing something. Blizzard intentionally limited the original Diablo, Starcraft and Diablo II to small (even for the period) resolutions. Why? Not for optimization. To force a 'level playing field'.

      I've never understood the obsession with competitive Starcraft. It was a clickfest game with very little overall strategy. Age of Empires II and Myth: the Fallen Lords were more along the lines of games that put the Strategy in RTS.

    10. Re:Linked video... by nasch · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're playing Zerg with huge resources, can't you build huge numbers of hydralisks and/or mutalisks and/or guardians, instead of huge numbers of zerglings? I mean, six or eight hatcheries pumping out, say, hydralisks and guardians gets pretty nasty pretty fast. Or heck, Ultralisk rush. It seems to me that it's not so much that Protoss has to spend more money, but that they make fewer, more powerful, more expensive units. But then I'm no champion.

    11. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Cannot Create More Units

    12. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sprite-based games were obviously limited to that resolution, because with the technology sprites could not be scaled for arbitrary resolutions.
      WarCraft 3, World of WarCraft are 3-d and the field of view is exactly the same regardless of the resolution, though aligned differently for widescreen.

    13. Re:Linked video... by Psiven · · Score: 1

      Actually WoW handles widescreen improperly by actually chopping off the top and bottom of the screen to deliver the aspect ratio of your monitor. So hopefully Blizzard fixes this for all the widescreen players out there.

    14. Re:Linked video... by n+dot+l · · Score: 1

      What? I've got a standard monitor and a widescreen next to each other and it works perfectly on either of them. The HUD doesn't fall off the edges of the screen and I can see just as much vertically at a given zoom factor...

    15. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Unlimited resources usually means that the mineral patches and gas geysers have max capacity, meaning you can mine them roughly forever.

      You'll still be mining gas out of one geyser. That's not even enough to maintain mutalisk production out of a single hatchery, much less 6-8 hatcheries pumping guardians.

    16. Re:Linked video... by Spinalcold · · Score: 1

      I always laughed when on maps of unlimited res people would go carrier rush. 1 or 2 defiler and hydro's up the ass will demolish them, then their base is free for the picking.

    17. Re:Linked video... by SpazmodeusG · · Score: 2, Informative

      Protoss can build an unlimited number of buildings at the same time using 1 probe and that probe can go back to harvesting whilst the buildings are being built.
      On maps with lots of resources you might be building several things at once early on. That's several less peons terran and zerg have harvesting.

    18. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? I've got a standard monitor and a widescreen next to each other and it works perfectly on either of them. The HUD doesn't fall off the edges of the screen and I can see just as much vertically at a given zoom factor...

      So you've got some kind of magic computer, then?

      World of Warcraft handles widescreen resolutions by reducing the vertical FOV. This is simply fact. It's documented with comparison shots here. This approach is very common in multiplayer games, as a wider horizontal FOV might give players with widescreen displays an unfair advantage, but a reduced vertical FOV is barely noticeable in most circumstances.

    19. Re:Linked video... by vux984 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sprite-based games were obviously limited to that resolution, because with the technology sprites could not be scaled for arbitrary resolutions.

      They didn't have to scale it, they could have simply let you see more onscreen at once. They didn't to keep a level playing field.

    20. Re:Linked video... by n+dot+l · · Score: 1

      Yeah, OK. I'm a retard. I had my camera pointed a tad differently in one of the screenshots I was comparing (which were admitadely made to brag about my new monitor and not to actually do any other sort of serious comparison between the two :D ) and it was clipping against something which made the effective camera range different (I've got my max camera range tweaked higher than what the WoW interface normally allows so this happens a lot). I still don't consider it something that needs to be fixed like the other poster does, it's just the way it is. I thought he meant the HUD was clipping off the screen or the text was nonuniformly stretched and unreadable or something, two problems I recently had to fix in a game I work on and which definitely fit the definition of broken.

    21. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Myth:TFL (and its sequel) were beautiful, but they weren't strategic. This was intentional--they stripped out the strategy (logistics, research, unit production) almost entirely to concentrate on small unit tactics. I think the only thing that can really be called strategy is veteran management.

    22. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh YES, that would have made it MUCH more fair.

    23. Re:Linked video... by 10Neon · · Score: 1

      Try the StarCraft II website, http://www.starcraft2.com/ ...Their screenshots are in the neighborhood of 1600x1200.

      --
      The Guide is definitive. Reality is frequently inaccurate.
    24. Re:Linked video... by MistrBlank · · Score: 1

      Hmmm... I wonder if there's any research on vector based sprites.

    25. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

        That is true what you said about Zerg. Zerg require lots of recourses, but with lots of resources you can create lots of spawning. This means even MORE micro managment. The problem is that in the end, humans (terrans) have a slight advantage in the end game.

        Case and point. A month ago, a finals game in Korea, Savior (one of the top Zerg progamers) played a Terran. Savior made lots of bases, held terran to one base, and dominated the whole map, except for one expension base. He ends up destroying the primary base, but terran was able to set up expension, and turtled in. He put missile lunchers everywhere, tanks on high ground, and started to build battleships. No matter how many times Zerg would build up an army, do a drop, or attack in, he was eliminated, as the guy slowly build up his battleships.
        Then, when he had about 10 battleship, he would slowly move around and destroy all the zerg bases.
      There was not much Savior could do, resulting in him losing the game. So I hope in SCII there will be slightly more balance (which it seems that way) and no single UBER units (which there seems there are - Zerg Queen, and PRotoss time stopping ship.)

        www.youtube.com/jon747 has a large collection of top star craft games. Check it out.

         

    26. Re:Linked video... by nasch · · Score: 1

      Yeah that's true, that gets them going earlier.

    27. Re:Linked video... by EMeta · · Score: 1

      Infinite resources maps give the psi limit of 200 more weight, and as protoss con arguably do more within that limit if they have enough resources, the advantages leans to them. Also, they don't actually need to stay within that limit (via mind control of drones or SCVs).

    28. Re:Linked video... by nasch · · Score: 1

      If there's useful terrain around, the carrier rush could still be effective since plague doesn't affect shields. Attack with the carriers from beyond hydro range and use a ridge, water, etc to keep the ground units away. OTOH, plague + mutalisks... ouch. I always found though that High Templar are the biggest threat to carriers. Two or three of them can take out pretty much any number of carriers if they're all together.

    29. Re:Linked video... by DuckDodgers · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the game had little strategy, building a massive force of your best unit was a sure path to victory. But Blizzard designed each unit in the game with at least one effective counter-strategy available.

      You need to manage your economy, scout your enemy base locations, scout which units he was building so you could build the appropriate counter units, and then control your army closely for tactical combat, by taking injured units to the back for repairs, drawing enemy forces into geographic bottlenecks so you can focus your firepower, and making effective use of unit special abilities.

      It's an extremely deep strategy game, far more than a simple "clickfest". If you don't like how fast it is, set the game speed to the slowest possible. Then you can enjoy the depth of strategy without having to click and hotkey at lightning speed.

    30. Re:Linked video... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      ". It was a clickfest game with very little overall strategy. "
      Clearly you sucked.

      No strategy my ass.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    31. Re:Linked video... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could have at least had a draw if I saw what he was up to. The answer is always the same. About 40 scourges. In a long game you have the vespian.

    32. Re:Linked video... by Cornflake917 · · Score: 1

      The only "unlimited resource" map that Blizzard made was Big Game Hunters, IIRC, and they only released "due to popular demand." All the other unlimited resource maps were user made.

      Gee whiz, fighting Protoss yet again on a map that completely negates their weakness ($$). How fun.

      Even if you were playing BGH, you still had to expand in order to get resources faster. Protoss was IMO the hardest race to expand due the cost of the nexus (more expensive than a hatchery) and the Terran's siege tank. From my experience, I didn't see any race that had a significant advantage, at least at my level of play.

      If you were playing one of those truly "infinite" resource maps, I have to ask. Why did you play maps that encouraged such boring gameplay?

    33. Re:Linked video... by nasch · · Score: 1

      Well, I was assuming you can get to an expansion or two and have at least two, maybe three geysers. Which it seems is usually the case unless the map is really crowded or has no expansions or something. And by "pumping out guardians" I mean make 10-12 of them and then go on a rampage. Build up gas and spawn Mutes for the next wave while you're on the attack. Obviously you can't make 80 guardians like you can Zerglings.

    34. Re:Linked video... by PrimalChrome · · Score: 1

      Good point. Myth:TFL was for the most part a RTT RealTime Tactical game. Though, on the big 3v3 ladder matches involving territories maps....I'd say there was plenty of top level strategy required to take and hold for the win.

  8. Ooh ooh I know this one! by blackicye · · Score: 1

    1) Send Overlords to scout for enemy bases.
    2) Crank out Zerglings as fast as you can.
    3) ???
    4) Profit!

    1. Re:Ooh ooh I know this one! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      That will make you the top of the noobs list, but won't work against experienced players.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  9. If I could change the resolution by wonkavader · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If I could change the resolution on good old StarCraft, I'd be very happy.

    I don't want a 3d look. It seems to make things harder to see and it's a waste of processor power. I just want to be able to see more of the map on the StarCraft I have.

    Howabout making a StarCraft 1.9? Blizzard could do that for almost nothing, compared to this new release, and people like me would mail in the checks to get it.

    1. Re:If I could change the resolution by aliquis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      WC III uses 3D as well but since only the almost-from-the-top-view is the only good one everyone use that and it look pretty flat. Sure you can look around some stuff, hide a unit behind a tree or building somewhat and it makes ground units very hard to click on when there are lots of air units on top but I'd say it works well.

      It doesn't look as cool as on screenshots from a lower angle and more up close but it works very well for playing the game.

      Also I guess it's easier to support more resolutions and aspect ratios and such when it's rendered vs uses animations.

    2. Re:If I could change the resolution by SpazmodeusG · · Score: 1

      I agree but not for the reasons of processor power. Starcraft 1 was standardised, no matter what computer or OS you played it on you knew the interface and the graphics viewpoint would be exactly the same. Even the keyboard shortcuts were fixed.

      These factors could really be seen as a feature as they made it great for competitive play.

    3. Re:If I could change the resolution by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      I agree - SC is almost perfectly balanced as it is, all most fans want is better graphics and tcp support.

      In fact, I wouldn't mind an SC/D2 port for a handheld with a touch screen, and because of the low requirements of SC it should run just fine on something like the gpx2/F200. I'd rather have the hours of fun on a handheld than by booting up a computer just to play sitting at a desk. I'd imagine that just those two games ported to the F200 would very quickly make it one of the top-selling handhelds :-)


      Come to think of it, I'd love to port SC and D2 to the F200 - I wonder how much a licence will cost ....

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    4. Re:If I could change the resolution by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      What computer or OS options did you have? I only had windows as an option for playing starcraft (even if I emulate windows).

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    5. Re:If I could change the resolution by SpazmodeusG · · Score: 1

      Starcraft 1 can be run on Mac or PC and in fact the Battle Chest editions have the 1 hybrid CD that has both PC and Mac versions on it.

      It's great as a LAN game across many completely different systems as there are no advantages from one system to another.

    6. Re:If I could change the resolution by Jezral · · Score: 1

      They don't want to do that. They're even constraining SC2 to have a limited field of vision where regardless of screen resolution you can't zoom out too much.

      Personally, I hate that and want to be able to see everything at once, but they feel that players should be limited in this fashion. I doubt you'd see the original SC updated to allow zoom out for the same reason.

    7. Re:If I could change the resolution by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      and people like me would mail in the checks to get it.

      Only problem is that you would mail those checks to a Swedish bay affected by global warming :p

    8. Re:If I could change the resolution by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      hide a unit behind a tree or building somewhat and it makes ground units very hard to click on when there are lots of air units on top but I'd say it works well.

      You can hit insert or delete to temporarily turn your camera roughly 120 cw or ccw (in its horizontal plane). You can also hit page up and page down to raise or lower your camera. These camera adjustments makes it much harder to hide your units behind your opponent's UI limitations. I suspect Blizzard learned something from watching SC replays ;)

    9. Re:If I could change the resolution by Starayo · · Score: 1

      Well, my starcraft discs, original and expansion, both support windows and mac. They were bought individually.

      Though, I did buy them fairly recently as those "classic games" sort of dealie. They look the same as my old ones though.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re:If I could change the resolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3d is easier to render on modern videocards than 2d is now. 2D is the waste of processing power.

    11. Re:If I could change the resolution by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Go play Spring then, it allows zooming out until you see the whole map if you want to (I usually play in a zoom level that's further out than other games allow but not THAT far out).

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    12. Re:If I could change the resolution by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but turning around are pretty useless to click a hero under other units and it jumps back.

      You can change ground angle with the scroll wheel as well but it takes time and time is important while fighing. Also if there are plenty of units and lights and shit like that it doesn't help much anyway, sometimes it's hard to actually SEE the unit.

      I don't know how it was in Starcraft, my SC games may be countable on one hand.

      But yes, true, I think you could hide things behind refineries in C&C maybe aswell? Maybe they want to have it that way to allow for taller buildings and in that case WC 3 / 3D is actually an improvement since at least you can do something about it.

      Ah, whatever, just mass archers/bats/gargs/.. and kill all air, done ;)

    13. Re:If I could change the resolution by gknoy · · Score: 1

      Heck, they could even specifically DISALLOW ranked competetive play for that version ... and then the rest of us who aren't pros can play together at 1920x1200 resolution. :)

  10. Video is terrible quality by agristin · · Score: 2, Funny

    I could see there was a Zerg base and the player was building some Zerg stuff (could barely see what it was). Then some grey blobs came in and pointed some yellow flashing triangles and then the player played poorly, made some Zerg that ate only some of the marines. Then something happend and some tanks came. I couldn't watch anymore because my eyesight was going from trying to focus on the blurry video.

    Here it looked like this:

    "OOO {iii"

    And now you've seen the crummy movie.

  11. HD Video Link ^^^ by rsborg · · Score: 1

    Mod Parent up!!!

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  12. Oh god find the red dot! by TheTornOne · · Score: 4, Funny

    ***Chirp*** "Nuclear Launch Detected"

    1. Re:Oh god find the red dot! by cfortin · · Score: 1

      I've set Thunderbird to use that half-second chirp as a you-got-mail
      indicator. I still jump whenever it goes off ....

  13. I don't think Starcraft2 will have the same appeal by WK2 · · Score: 1

    The video looks great (the High Def one that AC linked for us). But I worry about what the content from TFS. The reason that Starcraft didn't give you tanks until a few levels in, was so you could learn just a few new things each level. The first 3 levels of every game as complicated as Starcraft should be learning. Even if you've played dozens of RTS before, including Starcraft, you're still going to have to learn the new units, upgrades, and controls.

    It looks like Blizzard is going for the "RPG" element too, like Warcraft III and Battle for Wesnoth. I hope it isn't too bad. I really liked how I could beat a level of Starcraft, or Age of Empires, etc, and not worry about not being strong enough for the next level because I didn't beat the previous levels efficiently enough.

    --
    Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
  14. What's the rush? by jonaskoelker · · Score: 2, Funny

    6pool

  15. Re:I don't think Starcraft2 will have the same app by ifrag · · Score: 1

    I really liked how I could beat a level of Starcraft, or Age of Empires, etc, and not worry about not being strong enough for the next level because I didn't beat the previous levels efficiently enough.

    I doubt this is ever a real problem in Warcraft 3 / TFT. Not once did I ever feel the need to replay a level simply so my hero could get more powerful. Unless you intentionally avoid using them they get plenty powerful enough even through casual use. If you actually got stuck as a result of this then I would question what tactics (if any) you had outside of hero use.

    --
    Fear is the mind killer.
  16. bullcrap by unity100 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    excuse me but age of empires and similar games dont have nothing to do with rts. they are basically "Whomever builds the baddest, fastest unit the most and sends them over, wins". there are small variation in tactics you can do, because every unit has an anti unit, but its nothing like starcraft. also the races, faction units are almost all the same, with only 2-3 different in 15 unit selections. they are basically the same.

    in starcraft you have 3 different races with TOTALLY different units all having totally different abilities.

    no unit has a clear anti unit. there are many different units that can stand against and be an anti unit of a particular unit because of their different abilities.

    and this makes the game an infinite variation of strategy. there are countless ways to win a matchup. you can go mass production, but if your opponent has good micro (management, meaning using units very effectively individually) and uses very little number of units and their abilities perfectly, you are totally screwed.

    no sir, either you dont know zit about strategy, or havent really played starcraft by giving its due.

    1. Re:bullcrap by kv9 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      no sir, either you dont know zit about strategy, or havent really played starcraft by giving its due.

      I know I'll probably get the modstick for this, but if I wanted to play a strategy game I'd go play Total Annihilation, not kekeke zerg rush ^_____^

    2. Re:bullcrap by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Any game where players' effectiveness is rated by how many actions per second they can perform is a crappy strategy game. Period. Strategy is about thinking, not how fast you can jump the screen around and send your units in 50 different directions.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    3. Re:bullcrap by mikael_j · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Strangely every good Starcraft player I've met seems to have restricted himself (it's always a him, strange huh?) to a handful of proven tactics and apart from that spent most of his time practicing to become really really fast at clicking and ordering his units around, basically what you complained about other games encouraging.

      Myself? I'm still looking for a game that's essentially Command & Conquer but that emphasizes long drawn out battles that last for hours and where you actually have to do things like fortify and hold key points in the game world (like towns and bridges that help you control resources). AFAIK 99% of RTS games, including Starcraft, focus way too much on having good hand-eye coordination and not nearly enough on thinking. And no, I don't want turn-based games as a substitute, it's a different genre (and while I find it interesting I prefer real-time combat, but it has to be the kind of real-time where ten minutes isn't enough time to build a shitload of units and rush them from one side of the "world" to the other to crush your enemy's base while hoping your enemy didn't manage to do the same in eight minutes).

      /Mikael

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    4. Re:bullcrap by AioKits · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you liked Total Annihilation, you'll probably like Supreme Commander. Good stuff. Reminds me of TA a lot.

      --
      "Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted." -Groucho Marx
    5. Re:bullcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sins of a Solar Empire. That is all.

    6. Re:bullcrap by Salamande · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sounds like you might want to check out Sins of a Solar Empire.

    7. Re:bullcrap by whistlingtony · · Score: 1

      Ok, I'm being kind of a bastard here, but I think you're confusing strategy and tactics. There is really only one strategy in RTS games... Get bigger faster than the other guy.

      -T

    8. Re:bullcrap by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Rome total war kind of had this for me.

      With the turn based unit building and setting up your units it had that kind of feel.

      It was lacking resource management in the fighting though, and except for city defense there were not too many choke points.

      It was by far my favorite strategy game ever though (perhaps because I didn't over-play it before going full time Linux).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    9. Re:bullcrap by Sobrique · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Supreme Commander is good, the sequel - Forged Alliance - is better.
      Big shift in the gameplay dynamics away from 'simcity, rush nuke' to something a little more reliant on going out and controlling territory. And make experimentals and nukes a bit more 'usable, but not instant victory' which as someone who likes a 'proper' lategame, rather than a 'he who nukes first wins' suits me well.

    10. Re:bullcrap by MooseMuffin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sounds like you're looking for turn based strategy games. You can easily take 50 actions in a game of civilization within a single turn, and a turn is simply a unit of gametime. RTS games have multiple turns per second, so if you expect to execute the same complexity of strategy, then yes, you'll have to be able to perform numerous actions per second.

    11. Re:bullcrap by brkello · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but "real time" strategy is going to have both elements of critical thinking and the ability to act and react quickly. If you can't handle it, go play turn based. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't strategy.

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      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    12. Re:bullcrap by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      Tried any mods?

      They give it new life.

      I'm partial to the mods that aim to make the game more true to history (e.g. the Egyptian units are basically Greek instead of Pharoic, "barbarians" are more fleshed-out, etc.). Of those, my personal favorite is Europa Barbarorum. Practically every aspect of the game is changed. Loads of fun.

    13. Re:bullcrap by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      No, if it requires the ability to act and react that quickly, it isn't strategy. I'm not saying that all RTS is not strategic: Relic's games, for example, are very strategic, as is Supreme Commander. Starcraft is not. It's a clickfest, and is no more strategic than Quake.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    14. Re:bullcrap by morefiend · · Score: 1

      Strategy is about thinking, not how fast you can jump the screen around and send your units in 50 different directions.

      Strategy is a function of time. Only in the imaginary warfields of a person's mind are you given an infinite berth in which to decide what goes where and what does what without the when.

    15. Re:bullcrap by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Funny,

      I played Rome Total Realism, and felt that the game was more "fun" by default. But I have not played in years (due to converting over to Linux).

      The unrealistic, but overpowered calvary, and the overall faster units lead to a game I enjoyed more. Perhaps a faster pace with a happy medium on calvary strength would have been more fun for me (I got great joy from charging the flanks and watching large armies fall).

      Also,
      I don't know that essentially more greeks in egypt would be more fun.

      I pretty much play Quake Wars:ET, and kblackbox now. I played Lincity for a while, but got sick of it after winning.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    16. Re:bullcrap by krenshala · · Score: 1

      I believe the word you are looking for is 'tactical'.

      This is why I've always refered to SC and its genre as being Real Time Tactical games ... there isn't much Strategy in "build as fast as you can, then rush the other guy before he can rush you".

      Sure, the good players can do more planning (actual strategic decision making) but the vast majority of the game is pure tactical (re)action. If I wanted to play tactical games, I'll stick to Laser Squad Nemesis (speaking of which, I feel like playing that again).

      --

      krenshala

    17. Re:bullcrap by geekoid · · Score: 1

      the Zerg rush can be defeated.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    18. Re:bullcrap by geekoid · · Score: 1

      That's why it's called a "Real Time Strategy" Game.
      It's different then a "Turn Based Strategy" game. The even call them different names to clear up any confusion.

      There is strategy, and like in real life if you can't adapt and out move your opponent, you lose.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    19. Re:bullcrap by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Except if you watch the pros(as in people making money competing) you will notice they can change strategy, There is no "I Win" strategy in StarCraft. If there was there couldn't be competitions.

      BTW, hot keys level the click as fast as you can effects.

      I was good, some considered me 'real good' but the pros are in a different league.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    20. Re:bullcrap by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Have you tried Sins of a Solar Empire? Another game you should probably try is Kohan (although it's pretty old by now). Both are RTSes that deemphasize the clicking and put a lot more emphasis on securing the ground you capture and exploiting its resources.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    21. Re:bullcrap by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      Hallelujah. That's the main flaw about RTS games. By lack of a strategy aspect they focus on micro-management and making you take 100 clicks to do something you should be able to do with half a dozen just to keep you busy. When I think strategy I think being a sort of Napoleon Bonaparte, decide how many units you're gonna take where, how and when, and Europa Universalis succeeded with that respect. But in most other RTS games, you spend most of your time doing things a commander shouldn't have to do, like telling a unit to do whatever they could decide to do on their own with a tad bit of common sense, like units trying to get fixed when idle and harmed, or units activating their counter measures when not just appropriate but necessary. It's like you almost have to order your units to wipe their nose when needed.

      And while I'm ranting about RTS games, here's some more. Why use hard limits for things like population limit? This is a cheap trick to make sure you don't end up with 5 times more units than your adversary. Instead of stupid hard limits they should use mechanisms to achieve the same effect, but with more subtlety and room for choice by the player. For example, have a nice model of how your feeding resources are affected by how many units you have. I.e. if you try to make more than 200 units you can't get enough food for anyone anyways so your units will be weaker or eventually even starve to death. Just an example, but I think "matured" genres like RTS and FPS games are examples of each new game being just like another previous game except a little better. There are few paradigm shifts and concept rethinkings when a genre has matured, it only becomes a routine.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    22. Re:bullcrap by Walter+Carver · · Score: 1

      Why not? Real wars depends on speed too. The German's did Blitzwerk in 1940.

    23. Re:bullcrap by kungfugleek · · Score: 1

      You can turn down the game speed in most Blizzard RTS games, I think. Might help your problem.

    24. Re:bullcrap by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Real wars depend on speed, but RTSes like Starcraft go far beyond "speed". If we fought real wars like people play Starcraft, our great generals would be barking out "Go there! What's the situation? Go there! What's the situation! Attack that guy! No, to the other side of him! No, the other other side! Take cover for God's sake! There's one man out of cover, get him in there! Build a bunker near the enemy! Reinforce that fight! What's the situation on the other side of the battlefield? Base, build another barracks pronto! Barracks, train another guy! Send him to the second fight!", all in about 20 seconds.

      It's fucking ridiculous. Our generals don't behave like that, they receive intel reports (and they don't demand for them every 5 seconds, I might add, it's brought to their attention when new things occur), and give overall instructions to their troops. They don't try to micromanage the troops, and goings-on of their army, and RTSes shouldn't make you try.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    25. Re:bullcrap by Tuidjy · · Score: 1

      I have not played Laser Squad Nemesis for years. I'm off to check how far it has gotten. Thanks for reminding me.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
    26. Re:bullcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Real wars depend on speed, but RTSes like Starcraft go far beyond "speed". If we fought real wars like people play Starcraft, our great generals would be barking out "Go there! What's the situation? Go there! What's the situation! Attack that guy! No, to the other side of him! No, the other other side! Take cover for God's sake! There's one man out of cover, get him in there! Build a bunker near the enemy! Reinforce that fight! What's the situation on the other side of the battlefield? Base, build another barracks pronto! Barracks, train another guy! Send him to the second fight!", all in about 20 seconds.

      But if a real general could do this, and he had troops who could handle orders at that speed, he'd be far better than one who couldn't. That's what you're given in starcraft.

      Or here's another way of thinking about it: You aren't the general in starcraft/warcraft. You are every soldier, every worker, every pilot and every driver. Your success is determined by how many of these roles you can simultaneously manage, and at what granularity.

    27. Re:bullcrap by brkello · · Score: 1

      There are many different strategies in Starcraft you can develop. For a stupid example, a zerg rush would be a strategy. Or you could play a defensive strategy to hold out until you can get far enough in to a tech tree to mass produce the units to employ a different strategy. These strategies all must be executed in real time. Someone who is good with their strategy could beat someone with poor strategy but faster at micromanaging. Obviously, to be the best, you have to be good at both.

      I am not trying to say you are wrong for disliking this style of game...to each their own, you know? But it does use strategy and I think it is wrong for you to belittle it because it isn't your style.

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    28. Re:bullcrap by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      I'm "belittling" (I'm actually not belittling it, just disputing what type of game it is) it because it rewards micromanagement and twitch reflexes far more than it rewards strategy, yet claims to be a strategy game. If it were truly a strategy game, a player with better strategy would beat a player with better reflexes every time. That's not the case, though: it takes a very wide gap in strategic ability to overcome a gap in twitch ability. So, again, Starcraft is not a strategy game. This doesn't make it a bad game, just not a strategy game.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    29. Re:bullcrap by Cornflake917 · · Score: 1

      Just because someone can beat a better "strategic" player by out clicking them doesn't make the game non-strategic. By your logic, real life war is not strategic because whoever has the most money to fund the war usually wins. I know that this isn't always case (i.e. Vietnam). But it isn't always the case with Starcraft either. Sometimes players can change the tides of the battle with a reaver/siege tank drop on resource gatherers. Strategy comes in even more of a factor for team-based games. Do you scout early and gang up to attack? Do you hole yourself in and make them waste resources on failed attacks? No amount of actions per minute will save you from a full on rush from the other team if your teammates don't help you. But if you position your defenses correctly and use the right units, then you might be able to hold them off long enough to get your retarded teammates to come help you.

      Here is a good example of why Starcraft is at least somewhat strategic. If you play and island map and make 80 zealots (no dropships) and your opponent makes 1 battlecruiser, guess who will win?

    30. Re:bullcrap by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Just because someone can beat a better "strategic" player by out clicking them doesn't make the game non-strategic.

      Actually, it does. I am not saying that there is no element of strategy in Starcraft, but that alone doesn't make it a strategy game. Good matches of Counter-Strike can have an excellent strategic element, but CS is not a strategy game by any stretch of the imagination. Similarly, Starcraft has strategic elements, but because they are given too little weight, it isn't really a strategy game.

      By your logic, real life war is not strategic because whoever has the most money to fund the war usually wins.

      Actually, real-life war isn't necessarily a strategic thing. There are a lot more factors involved than battlefield strategy, such as funding and popular support. Strategy is only one part of the whole picture. But, in a strategy game, strategy is the picture. It isn't trying to model real-life war perfectly, it's trying to provide a sandbox for battle strategy.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    31. Re:bullcrap by BootNinja · · Score: 1

      actually, if memory serves, The 200 unit limit was imposed do to RAM constraints back in 1998. It wasn't about balancing the game so much as it was a way to prevent out of memory errors or gameplay slowdown because unit information was being swapped off of the hard disk.

    32. Re:bullcrap by brkello · · Score: 1

      Ok, I understand what you are saying. You are saying it is a twitch game rather than a strategy game. You say it has strategic elements, but not enough for it to be classified as strategy. It isn't classified a strategy game though...it is a "real time" strategy. I think it is one of the definitive games for that genre.

      Not a big deal though. I think I misinterpreted your post as putting down Starcraft and the people who are good at it. That is a typical attitude on Slashdot and it ticks me off. I think it is classified correctly but I am fine with agreeing on disagreeing on its genre.

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      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    33. Re:bullcrap by unity100 · · Score: 1

      any player who cant beat a kekekeke zerg rush is someone who played starcraft for a month back in 1998 and never played afterwards.

    34. Re:bullcrap by unity100 · · Score: 1

      your text gives out the fact that you have never played starcraft since 1998.

      there are multitudes of strategies in between micromanaging, macromanaging, and anything in starcraft. please dont make assumptions without information.

    35. Re:bullcrap by Cornflake917 · · Score: 1

      We're really just arguing semantics at this point. The relevant definitions of strategy according to the dictionary are:

      1. the science and art of military command exercised to meet the enemy in combat under advantageous conditions
      2. the art of devising or employing plans or stratagems toward a goal

      According to your posts, your definition of real time strategy games are "a game in which you can beat your opponent by strategy alone with no other factors." Unfortunately for your argument, any game that progresses in real time are going involve factors outside of strategy. By your definition, real-time strategy is almost an oxymoron, because in any real time game involving military action, the quickness at which you act will be a factor.

      At this point, if you still believe that games need such a requirement in order to be classified as an RTS, then I well rest my case. However, the rest of the gaming community will continue to classify games like Starcraft as a RTS because after all, it does involve planning towards a goal, and provides opportunities for players to give themselves advantageous conditions.

    36. Re:bullcrap by unity100 · · Score: 1

      starcraft is not played outside boundaries of time. time also passes when you are playing a starcraft game.

      excuse me, whomever takes hours to develop a 'strategy' in a turn based game, is a moron, not a good strategy player. in starcraft, you have to see the next 10 to 30 minutes in front of you (duration also varies upon anything that can happen during the game), but also update your entire strategy constantly depending on what happens in that duration. that may cause strategy change for 1 to 4 times on any competent starcraft game.

      so if it takes you 2 hours to come up and execute a strategy, excuse me, but you lack the capacity to play starcraft. you gotta do what you do in 2 hours in other games in 1.5 minutes in starcraft. if you cant, you get the shaft.

    37. Re:bullcrap by unity100 · · Score: 1

      in starcraft, you demand intel reports in 3 seconds, they come in 1 seconds, you have to process it in 10 seconds and act in 20 seconds. thats what starcraft is.

      it would be a tactical game if you didnt have resources and production, and ability to change your production and tap more resources. it isnt. its much more strategic than any turn based game.

    38. Re:bullcrap by unity100 · · Score: 1

      APM is just an indicator of what potential someone has to MICRO manage the units. many top level competitors in sc gaming are people who dont have omnipotent apm. get yer facts together first.

    39. Re:bullcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shattered Galaxy has some of the things you're looking for. http://www.sgalaxy.com/

    40. Re:bullcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I totally agree with you on this one, I've never really been a SC fan (though I'm a HUGE Blizzard fan). I'd also really like to see a game where the maps were strategic (bridges / towns etc are important).

      I thought that Supreme Commander would be the game to do this but sadly its crippled by bad AI, extreme rush tactics and terrible pathfinding scripts causing terrible lag.

      Company of Heroes comes a little bit closer to the "holding important locations" style strategy, but still falls short of what I'd call a perfect RTS.

      Personally I'd love to see in a game; decent AI (mainly unit AI, taking cover, being adaptive to a situation; your infantry will run from a tank rather than waiting for the order and getting crushed), strategic positions (and resources based on these), extremely large maps, unlimited unit production (with some sort of offset, say resource costs) and good visual appeal.

      Now I know that I'm living in dream land here and that those things aren't easy, but I just thought I'd throw it in after reading your comment.

    41. Re:bullcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From 1997 to 2002 there was no "kekeke zerg rush".
      People still play this game. Hell, I still have my copy, after 10 years, but haven't touched in years..

      After 10 years, if the game hasn't disappeared, it can come to this, but, it doesn't make it worse.

    42. Re:bullcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try Company of Heroes, minimal base building, you have to hold territory, and all combat all the time.

    43. Re:bullcrap by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      According to your posts, your definition of real time strategy games are "a game in which you can beat your opponent by strategy alone with no other factors."

      Actually, that's not true. It would be closer to saying that an RTS is a game where you can beat your opponent using primarily strategy. In Starcraft, strategy is not the most important factor, therefore, it isn't really a strategy game. I have no problem with the fact that all RTSes require some reflex: the question is, to what extent do they require it? With some RTSes, that's not a huge factor, but with Starcraft, that's your primary skill... and that's why it fails as a strategy game.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    44. Re:bullcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you liked Total Annihilation, you'll probably like Supreme Commander. Good stuff. Reminds me of TA a lot.

      There's a good reason it reminds you of Total Annihilation. Chris Taylor designed both. He was going to name the game "Total Annihilation 2," and continue the first game's storyline, but Atari wouldn't sell the rights to his old game to him (Atari got it when Infogrames bought GT Interactive, the parent company of TA's company, Cavedog Entertainment).

      Fun facts: Total Annihilation had a very sparse plot because... well, they forgot to make one. The creators were so focused on balancing the two factions, making their semi-3D maps work correctly, and fine-tuning the physics engine, that the plot was a last-minute creation when they first realized they needed when they started assembling the manual. Later, when making Supreme Commander, he was able to add much more depth to the game's storyline than Total Annihilation, taking advantage of creating a new game plot from scratch; he commented that the Supreme Commander plot was better because it was part of the initial game planning and design. Chris Taylor decided to wait on making another RTS until he got to play with another project for a little while after working on Total Annihilation. He wanted to create Dungeon Siege first because he 'always wanted to make an RPG.'

      And yes, I am a Chris Taylor fanboy. Now gimme' back Boneyards!

    45. Re:bullcrap by brkello · · Score: 1

      Right, it isn't a strategy game, it is an RTS game. I'm sorry, you take any RTS, move it to the competitive level, and it is going to be about the strategy they use and how fast they can click to position their units and micromanage. What you are talking about doesn't exist.

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    46. Re:bullcrap by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      Right, it isn't a strategy game, it is an RTS game.

      /facepalm

      I'm sorry, you take any RTS, move it to the competitive level, and it is going to be about the strategy they use and how fast they can click to position their units and micromanage.

      While I can't say I've seen many RTSes at the competitive level apart from Starcraft, I've seen a great many at the amateur level, and Starcraft is one of the only ones that favors twitch gameplay over strategy. Thus, I find your statement a bit difficult to swallow. Starcraft doesn't become twitch-based at the competitive level, it's only exhibiting the qualities inherent to the game at all levels of play. I'd wager that if you took a proper RTS, like Sins of a Solar Empire, and played it at a competitive level, you wouldn't see it degenerate into a clickfest.

      What you are talking about doesn't exist.

      Sure it does, it's called "most other RTSes". Great example, just off the top of my head: Sins of a Solar Empire. Great RTS, doesn't revolve around click-click-click and micro. It involves actual strategy, you know, the thing the "S" stands for in RTS.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    47. Re:bullcrap by 4D6963 · · Score: 1

      Yet you still find it in more recent games such as Rise of Nations. Sometimes I wonder if a genre's "thinking box" in which most people think inside of isn't mainly defined by the limitations present at the time of the genre defining titles.

      --
      You just got troll'd!
    48. Re:bullcrap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every game is clicking and moving your mouse about. Aside from Turn Based games, being better at clicking is an advantage over your enemy. It's just that some games are so hard to control that you must be a clicking-champion to be able to win one.

      What's the best strategy game? A discussion that's been held many times, but I usually don't find the game I like most: Warzone2100. It's a very old game but very innovative. (design your own units, 3D look way back then) I still haven't found a game that can match up to that level of innovation, also the strategy level is very deep. (There's about 6 different RADAR types alone)

      I'm still playing Starcraft1, although the graphics may be bad, the gameplay is what makes you addicted and keeps you playing the game. Nice graphics just make you go 'oohh' the first few times you play the game, after that they either hinder you or they don't. (for RTS games)

  17. I love Blizzard's fresh new content. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is great to have a demo with the tyranids, Sure the eldar and space marine demos were fine but everyone loves the tyranids.
    I really love the new spacemarine character Lemon Roos leader of the Astral Coyotes division!
    I wish all game companies could have the creativity and generate the original content that Blizzard does.

    1. Re:I love Blizzard's fresh new content. by Tuidjy · · Score: 1

      Damn right! Which is why they are getting ripped off by games like Dawn of War, which have stolen pretty much everything but the graphics (I guess they could not do bright and cartoony well enough)

      Do these people have any shame?! Timing the release of Dawn of War II to profit from the buzz around Starcraft II!

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
    2. Re:I love Blizzard's fresh new content. by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because devouring bugmen swarms, socially advanced aliens with elongated features & psychic weaponry, and space marines / infantry were also sooooo original when Games Workshop did it.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  18. Hmmm... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1
    "One of the things we're looking at doing with StarCraft II's campaign is putting the choice more in the players' hands. So maybe you like dealing more with infantry? You can purchase those upgrades and make your marines and other infantry stronger. Or else you'll save up the credits you get from the missions to get tanks sooner than you normally could."

    What, like Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends? Woopie do.

    1. Re:Hmmm... by duckInferno · · Score: 1

      You don't like the concept?
      Oh I get it -- you're saying it shouldn't be added because it's already been done.

      No? Okay I'll guess again: you're saying it has already been done, therefore it is not worth mentioning.

      Still no? Well, then what are you trying to add to this thread?

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  19. I never really got that by patio11 · · Score: 1

    So you've got an entire corps of ghosts -- super-intelligent, psionic assassins with a mortality rate of probably 50% and 80% when they go out to do nuke spotting... and nobody ever realized that if you are firing nuclear weapons, you don't really *need* laser-precision accuracy? Because they're, you know, nuclear weapons? What's the worst thing that happens, you overshoot the ultralisk by 50 yards and only burn it to ash instead of annihilating it on a subatomic level?

    "Smart" bombs, indeed.

    1. Re:I never really got that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are they going to use for even general targeting? GPS? On an orbital platform?

    2. Re:I never really got that by Thousand · · Score: 1

      I always thought it would add an interesting element to the game that if (or rather, when) your ghost gets killed during the painting process, the nuke would still launch but land in a totally random location. Terran tech ftw.

  20. Not true at all... by bckrispi · · Score: 1

    I play quite a bit of Warcraft 3, and there is *plenty* of strategy as well as tactics. Your opponent won't get the chance to crank out "bigger and faster" if you go with a resource starvation strategy, for example.

    --
    Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
  21. Re:bullcrap - avoid double negatives in arguments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "excuse me but age of empires and similar games dont have nothing to do with rts." -> "excuse me but age of empires and similar games have to do with rts."

  22. Axis vs. Allies, anyone? by Akvum · · Score: 1

    Indeed. The ability of a person to react quickly and manage soldiers well on the battlefield is a measure of their tactical skill, not strategic skill/vision.

    Oddly, in a RTS, effective tactics is the key to victory, unlike in games that require a lot of strategic thinking (like the civilization series). More strategy can be put into these games if some technologies, when researched, preclude access to other technologies or a more advanced tech structure (but with their own benefits). Also, just having a way larger tech tree (like in empire earth) can also make a game more strategic. Though, as an RTS becomes more complex in those ways, the manageability factor eventually would become so large that one would have to go to a turn-based system much like civ.

  23. Is that why in WoW when on alliance, hord's lol = by DRAGONWEEZEL · · Score: 1

    Kek?

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  24. Yes it will be a clickfest by SupremoMan · · Score: 1

    But they include a nice campaign with cinematics for us old timers.

  25. Video! by brkello · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What was with the video? I mean, play the hardest core music you can find and it is still just some terrans invading a barely formed zerg base. You could have seen the same thing in first Starcraft. Just think they could have come up with something a little more compelling than that.

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  26. Re:I don't think Starcraft2 will have the same app by WK2 · · Score: 1

    I only played a few levels of Warcraft III, and don't really know the details of how heroes work. I've played a lot of Battle for Wesnoth, however, and don't really like how characters and gold follow you through the levels. I'm pretty good at Battle for Wesnoth, and can do the campaigns just fine, but I don't like to, for the reasons I mentioned above. It's more of a "piece of mind" thing.

    Additionally, the only way that you can beat a game like that without having to redo levels is if the game is too easy in the first place. A challenging game, by definition, wouldn't have a lot of breathing room, so the "mistakes follow you around" gaming method would cause too many problems unless you kept your mistakes to the absolute minimum, which would entail playing levels multiple times.

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    Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
  27. Custom AI by chord.wav · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've always wanted to be able to customize the units' AI. Imagine using an interface like Yahoo pipes or Quartz Composer for example, to make the damn ghosts cloak when attacked.
    I think it could be very positive for the game, and, it could teach the youngsters a lot about logic an programming.

  28. Re:Is that why in WoW when on alliance, hord's lol by Daengbo · · Score: 1

    Actually, it's just the single letter (the equivalent of "k"), but Koreans add a long e sound to the end of single consonants (kee, pee, see). I think the kee kee kee sound is supposed to be kind of a chuckle.

  29. This may be a shocker... by patio11 · · Score: 1

    ... but the Germans used to aim rockets with a map, a coordinate system, and a bit of high school mathematics. I'm guessing that math still works, even on orbital platforms.

  30. Re:bullcrap (Play company of heroes instead) by TheSunborn · · Score: 1

    Try company of heroes. While it is realtime, clicking fast is not the way to win the game.

    It got 3 features I really like:

    1: Cover: Hiding behind a wall i a good thing, and units will in general use cover is if it close to their current position and they are fighting. (unit control is squad based, with a squad consisting of up to 6 men).

    2: Direction - Some weapons such as machine gun, and anti-tank guns have a limited "field of fire" Which mean that they can only fire in a specific
    direction. And to turn them around, take quite some time. (Enough that if you attack, a mg emplacement from the back, it can't turn around, before it is dead. This mean that flanking and so on, become very importent. (Remember to cover the flank with a tank :}

    3: Infantry units can be pinned down. So if you attack an mg direct on, it does not really matter how many squads of infantry you have, because they will all cast them self down on the ground for cover and move very slowly only. This mean that you can create 'fields of control' where you know the enemy infantry can't really attack over.

    Resources in the game are spread around the map like in dawn of war, so there are control points you need to touch, in order to get the resources).

    So the way to win, is to get control of most of the map, fortify the land so when the enemy attack he will die :}

    Very fun (And it almost works in linux with wine. So close..)