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Terror Watchlist "Crippled By Technical Flaws"
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "The database used by the government to generate lists like the No-Fly List is 'crippled by technical flaws,' according to the chairman of a House technology oversight subcommittee. And the upgrade may be worse than the original. Rep. Brad Miller (D-NC) says that 'if actually deployed, [the upgrade] will leave our country more vulnerable than the existing yet flawed system in operation today.' It seems that the current database doesn't have any easy way to do plain-text matching, forcing users to enter SQL queries. That might not sound so bad until you learn that the database contains 463 poorly indexed tables. How long until there's a terrorist named Robert'); DROP DATABASE; —?"
That's what happens when your interview questions are a political loyalty test.
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
Oh yes. Little Bobby Datas, we call him.
xkcd. Always relevant.
The amount of people they want to include on their "t3rr0rz l1zt" it'll only be a matter of time before we have
Osama Bin CREATE INDEX;
and
Saddam OPTIMIZE TABLE;
Then everything will be hunk dory again.
That might not sound so bad until you learn that the database contains 463 poorly indexed tables.
This is not a good measure of how good or bad a database is. Its good to have a table for every type of data and every data type. Read about normalization. You can go overboard, but as long as your database is designed well, having 463 tables might be just fine.
I say this because once I heard consultant say something like "This web application shouldn't need more than 40 tables, when in fact they didn't know much about the details of the web app, which were quite sophisticated and the real application had more than 100 tables."
The same US government that screws everything else up should be expected to screw up the terror DB. It was probably written by a junior developer who had never heard of a SQL injection. Isn't making a search form about the easiest project there is to build? I hate to say it, but I'm glad our government is so full of screw ups: pity the list exists at all...
Comment removed based on user account deletion
to code an exploit that automatically populates tables in the watchlist with entries from the TSA employee database wins.
Good people go to bed earlier.
It's crippled by being a moronic concept in the first place ("You've got the wrong name and _maybe_ the wrong date of birth, and you're not flying.") and an absolutely arbitrary process of putting names on the list, and no way of ever getting a name off the list.
Fix those points first, and _then_ worry about technical details.
Well, isn't this normal? We create as many tables as we need during normalisation, and then create views/stored procs/frontend scripts/whatever for the user to use.
Sounds like they only did the half the job. The other half still needs to be done - I see no "crippling" here.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Some contractors win by hiring really cheap labor, and then bidding so low that the contractors with decent software engineers and database developers cannot compete. Yeah, I'm looking at you, SAIC!
The worst part is that the government hasn't figured out that some contractors, with few exceptions, are just routinely bad and should be avoided at all costs.
In the comic, it's "DROP TABLE." In the summary, it's "DROP DATABASE."
*cleans spectacles*
Dammit
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
The problem is not the number of tables, but the fact that they are apparently 'poorly indexed'. Table indexes are important, both for the speed of queries, and data integrity.
The grass is only greener, if you don't take care of your own lawn.
Because theres' nothing a non-USian can learn in such a "story", except that US-ians are teh morons.
Hold on, that's not true! In this story, we learn that the terrorist watch list is not only a bad idea, but it is poorly implemented!
What is sad about this is some security-cleared development company probably charged $20 million to make it.
You just know Little Bobby Tables is going to grow up to be a terrorist one day.
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
Because theres' nothing a non-USian can learn in such a "story", except that US-ians are teh morons.
Hold on, that's not true! In this story, we learn that the terrorist watch list is not only a bad idea, but it is poorly implemented!
I think he may have been trying to indicate that we already knew that. Even more so, that pretty much everyone in the world already knew that.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
For those interested: the size of the terror watchlist compared to US cities and States.
Silver Clipboard: Time Management Tips
In the comic, it's "DROP TABLE." In the summary, it's "DROP DATABASE."
I wonder if I'm the only SQL noob who had to look up the "drop database" command to see that indeed it is valid?
Granted, not everyone gets to play with their first database with the rights to even use the 'drop database' command...
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Foolish, poorly designed, wasteful, corrupt Federal Database application fails to deliver on promises,
Film at eleven !
how are we going to recognise all those terrorists now?
it may have been a good idea, but the implementation was horrible, come on....
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know." -- Mark Twain
Since he flew a lot for work, the unfortunate consequence was being FULLY searched EVERY time he went through the airport. He finally called up the TSA once and told them, "How about I just come into your office. If I am your man, ARREST ME! If I'm not, then get me off of this list!" to which they responded, "I'm sorry sir, but it doesn't work that way."
All in all, it took him over 3 years to finally get his name off. I think the criteria for being on the terror watch list are pretty well summed up here:
-If you have the same name, initials or hair color as a felon, you're on the list.
-If you've ever lived withing a 5 mile radius of a felon, you're on the list.
-If you've ever flown on an airline that a terrorist has ever attacked before, you're on the list. and finally.
-If airport security is bored, you're on the list.
Any thoughts?
"Thank you for using Stop-n-Drop, America's favorite suicide booth since 2008"
I, for one, welcome our meme neutralizing slashdot editor-overlords, film at eleven
There, fixed that for you (which is, in fact, my favourite meme.)
"Miller also alleged that some of the $500 million spent on Railhead already had been improperly used to renovate a facility owned by contractor Boeing."
Its easy to waste a lot of money when a department that has a virtually unlimited budget outsources with little to no oversight.
We had similar problems in Canada with the Long Gun Registry, which was a dumb idea to begin with. Then they outsourced it. All told it cost more then $1 billion to set up, and didn't work properly at first. (It does work now, though its still a dumb idea.)
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Someone seeing the terrorist's name: "Hey, you're that American Comic!"
Terroists looking very serious and dangerous: "NO! I AM NOT!"
Person: "Yes you are! You're so funny!"
Terroist looking even more pissed: "No! Absolutely not!"
Gotta watch it.
It runs on PBS every once in a while Ameican Crossroads.
One could wonder whether the project was set up to adress terrorism OR it was setup to generate media-attention ?
It was both and then some.
I'm trying to find the link of the guy who started this BS. It was a private citizen who, IIRC, was the one who was involved with Choicepoint. He wrote some code and his algorithm pulled up most of the 9/11 hijackers and then some. He had some false positives even then, but it was the Government's wet dream and it solved some of their problems (such as that pesky little Constitutional problem of spying on Americans. It's OK if a private company does it -Choicepoint.) and it makes great security theater and it creates some big fat Governemtn contracts for some big fat cats with Government connections.
Need more caffeine and I'm getting tons of false hits from Google trying to find the cite - it is over 7 years old, ya know.
Is it irony that this was the tagline for the article?
"Kludge, n.: An ill-assorted collection of poorly-matching parts, forming a distressing whole. -- Jackson Granholm, "Datamation""
The "watchlist" should be more like a credit-rating report: It gives the front-line screener a "score" or more likely a redlight-greenlight.
If there is a redlight, and the person has previously been mis-identified, he can whip out his "get on the plane free" card and the screener swipes the card and fingerprint or scans his face or something. If they match, he's green-lighted.
Otherwise, he goes to further screening conducted by trained, relatively trustworthy professionals who look at the actual information: This person has visited Pakistan 5 times, his uncle is a member of the Indian Mafia, he's paying cash, etc. They talk to him and make a decision whether to okay him for this flight, this itinerary, or in the case of mistaken identity, photograph or fingerprint him, and give him a "get on the plane free" card.
In a perfect world, this wouldn't be necessary, but as long as there are people who match my physical description and share my name and birth-date running around trying to blow up planes, I expect to endure the inconvenience of a single delayed flight and having to show and authenticate my "get on the plane free" card every flight. If I ever do start doing things that "fit the profile" like pay cash to flights to Pakistan or marry someone whose family is in organized crime, I expect greater scrutiny.
There are a few things that should be off-limits though:
Race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, place of birth, etc. However, country of citizenship and non-trivial, clandestine association with known criminals or terrorists is fair game.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Why not just put up the list on "terroristwatchlist.com" and do site: google searches.. Would probably be much easier and more reliable.
I'm not sure you can call having names on the list matching 1/3 of the population of the earth a "technical flaw".
What they really need to do to make it useful is get it down to perhaps a couple thousand real concerns.
I just put you on the list.
So, the question that comes to mind for me is this: what if I were a database architecture guru who had been asked to build this system (or its replacement)? At first, my thought is that I'd refuse on grounds of my opposition to the whole thing...but now I'm suddenly wondering if some of the better options did just that, and then it got designed and built by the knob who would take the job. Unlikely, sure, but it's something that I've never thought about before. Is the ethical cost of not doing something like this (that's going to get done anyways one way or another) when you're the right guy for the job potentially higher than the ethical cost of doing it?
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
First of all, many terrorists have names in a non-Latin alphabet. There are multiple ways to transcribe Arabic and Cyrillic letters to the Latin alphabet.
Funnily enough there is a lot of software around to do this and not all of it by the CIA. Since the unPatriotic act (actually before it) banks have been supposed to ID check new account holders.
As far as the other data is concerned, often watch lists contain poor data, and passports may contain inexact data (Chinese gymnasts' DOBs, anyone). You need to have a scoring match, i.e. if the name sort-of matches and the age is within 2 yrs and place of birth is a similar sounding town in the right country, and then flag for a human to review. If there is a positive match using approximation, you really do need a trained person to make any final decision.
See my journal, I write things there
And our so super smart congress could not figure out how to hire Google to complete the project?
Fred Grott(aka shareme) http://mobilebytes.wordpress.com
As usual, the government has taken taxpayers' dollars and wasted it. I'm sure somebody at the Justice Department decided that this database should be easy to build ("It's just a list!"), and rather than bring in some professionals to design it, they slapped it together on their own. They probably decided that the data is too sensitive to have an outside data architect design it. Not only is the government messing with private citizen's rights, but they are doing it badly.
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/snl-funny-terrorist-names/4040669571
"M'balz es-Hari"
"Haid D'Salaami"
"Mustaf Herod Apyur Poupr"
"Usuqa M'diq"
"Hous bin Phartin"
"I'zheet m'drawrz"
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
What laws are invoked by the DHS in putting people onto this list and not allowing them to fly. I mean there is a law, isn't there. Now how about getting onto a no-water-boarding list .. :)
davecb5620@gmail.com
A good start is usually hiring IBM, or one of several other large 'service' firms.
IBM specifically does some good things lately, but if you're truly looking to get serviced, the big consulting companies can help you out.
Hiring relatives also generally helps.
I mean how hard would it be to take all of the news stories about these poor Joes who for no fault of their own end up on the no-fly list.
Then publish the daylight out of the list and force some accountability for the responsibility.
A friend of mine is the security manager for a fairly large company. They have offices all over the world and business in many countries. He tells me that there are at least three "terrorist" lists. The EU list, the UN list and the US list. They are listed from poor to really shitty.
If a person or a company is on either of these lists then they aren't allowed to do business with them as they are suspected terrorists r terrorist backers.
The US list can contain things like "Muhammad, Saudi Arabia", or "Iqbal, Pakistan".
The lists are of no use to them and impossible to follow, but they are required to do so or risk sanctions from EU or the US.
Happy times!
Ok ouch ok I'll shut up and sit ouch in a ouch stop it! corner now.
This happened to one of the guys at the company I work at, who has a pretty common name and flew at least once a month. Every single time, he'ld be datained a couple of hours.
It took several years and several thousand dollars of lawyer fees to fix (company paid, I assume, since they needed him to travel).
If your a terrorist please stop reading here! It would not do at all for this information to get into terrorist hands!
This story says it's possible to bypass the list by using a legal variant of your name ie Capt. James Robinson said he has learned that "Jim Robinson" and "J.K. Robinson" are not on the list.
I want to be on the terrorist watch list.
My uncle had a similar experience to your relative when he was returning from Jamaica (he was there for his anniversary). He had the exact name (middle too) of a wanted felon and was detained in customs for hours before they finally figured out he was from the other side of the country as his evil name-twin. As he pointed out at the time, "If I was the person they were looking for, would I be quite so stupid as to travel under my real name with genuine IDs in my name?" It's not like the guy was just "suspected"...he was pretty much a known criminal/fugitive.
"Technical flaws"? I think "technical flaws" are the least of their concerns. The whole system has been marred with logical flaws from its inception.
Arguing the system is hampered by database problems is the equivalent of building a car without an engine and then complaining it doesn't run because the tires are the wrong size.
George Carlin rant on the general topic of airport security...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBxzvSbGJ2w
" All this airport security the searches, the screenings, the cameras, the questions. Its just one more way to reduce your liberty and remind you that they can fuck with you anytime they want."
Please do explain how data INTEGRETY is affected by the way you define indexes, as opposed to the ways in which you have denormalized tables for performance.
From the article, it would be good to see an explanation of just what they mean by "poorly indexed". That seems much more likely to refer to the need for more indexes for faster search results, rather than indexes done badly...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Mods mod this flamebait? Bad bad bad, parent is merely explaining the post of ggp. Valid mod options: Informative, Redundant.
You know, since it is the government, I think we should probably let them know that sending around DVD's with Terrorists.mdb is probably not the thing to do. I wonder what will happen when they have more than 2gb of suspects?
This is my sig.
I wonder if I'm the only SQL noob who had to look up the "drop database" command to see that indeed it is valid?
Why look it up when you can test it out for yourself?
Its called an arrest warrant. This other thing is an extra-constitutional fallacy.
The incompetance of US Government contractors is nothing short of astonishing.
How has this been allowed to happen? From the little info I've managed to glean from TFA it seems the schema has been designed by somebody who doesn't know even the rudiments of database design.
How did somebody like this get such a lucrative contract? Is there no accountability in your Gov?
At best it seems the Government gives these contracts out at random, without even the most basic vetting procedures ("Does your company have anything to do with software design?"). A more distrustful person might suggest there is something more sinister going on...
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
...I thought I might share my train of thought:
1.) Why are all Federal Government databases a complete mess ?
2.) Isn't it actually a good thing that all Federal Government databases a complete mess ?
3.) It's possible that somebody is ensuring that all Federal Government databases are a complete mess ?
4.) I for one welcome our new Federal Government Database Overlords !
-If you have the same name, initials or hair color as a felon, you're on the list.
-If you've ever lived withing a 5 mile radius of a felon, you're on the list.
Any thoughts?
It takes more than just being a felon.
I have a felony conviction (non-violent). I've flown 3 times since being discharged from parole and haven't run into any difficulties at the airports.
There are many different types of felonies. Many felons are, indeed, very very bad people. However, I personally know several convicted felons who I would trust to babysit my children, or loan money to. Most of the people I know in that category got their felony convictions as a result of substance abuse issues and have since cleaned up their act.
Just wanted to point out that having a felony conviction doesn't necessarily mean somebody is an evil person.
One could wonder whether the project was set up to adress terrorism OR it was setup to generate media-attention ?
I work at an airport, in administration, and trust me when I say this has very little to do with dark political conspiracies, and a lot to do with the government's haste to show they were "doing something" after 9/11. This project was quickly rushed into service, and has been widely reviled by airports and airport police departments across the country. And other similar measures... the current background check process for giving access to secured areas, and the very creation of TSA itself, were all measures to reassure the public that something was getting done. The problem is that government enterprises like these tend to become bipartisan boondoggles, with every state and major city wanting a piece of the political and funding action these things entail. Federal agencies tend to become monsters that need to justify their own existence by constant growth. TSA in particular is quickly becoming a large federal law enforcement agency, not just a baggage security team. When they were first set up, several of their nascent teams moved and basically tried to take control of several airports... I know of one major southern airport where they simply showed up one day, declared that a series of offices now belonged to them, and when the airport director came down to see what was going on, they tried to have him arrested by his own police force for "violating federal facilities". Anyone that works with AAAE members (airport execs group) knows what incident I'm talking about.
Did you know that TSA will now be issued police-like blue uniforms, with metal badges, just like cops? Airport police and the metropolitan police departments that supplement them just looooove that, and there's the inevitable talk of actually giving said TSA agents firearms. Unlike some other police departments, TSA agents are being encouraged to wear their uniforms and badges in their spare time, in order to enhance the agency's "visibility" to the public. There are already jokes that TSA SWAT teams are inevitable at airports. The problem is, the laughter doesn't last very long when we realize that the way things are going, that might not be a joke so much as a prediction of the future.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
So I'm guessing their Access database just looks like this:
ID | First | Last
I guess they just took KISS way too far.
The only problem with the watch list is my buddy Bob Smith. Real guy, accountant, nice Audi. He's on the list. He flies about 70 times a year for his job. Every time it takes him about 4hours to get through security. It's things like this that cause people to snap and become terrorists.
They should have just hired TicketMaster, as absurd as it sounds, they're already experts in the field. Although you'd have to pay an extra $8 to get your ticket printed right then at the train station.
Splitters!
[UID-HeinzIntel]
The FBI ran into a similar problem with their case automation system. Investigative databases contain items like "informant 345 reports white male, 20s, tan windbreaker, called "Harry" was seen in a bar on 4th street talking about a robbery at 10th and Main last week". How do you utilize a few million items like that? The usual approach is to start with fully-identified people and work outward, but this leads to the traditional cop vice of finding info that reinforces preconceptions. True correlation of loosely identified items is tough, although there are similarity metrics which can help.
Worse, the terrorism people have to deal with names from cultures that have low name uniqueness.
I'm sure he'll not be missed.
*wooosh*
You're right! They do get cuter when they're small.
[UID-HeinzIntel]
After all, it's also crippled by moral and logical flaws.
My co-workers 2 year old Daughter was on the list. It took 4 years to get her name removed.
It must have been her evil plot to drop a bomb in her diaper.
If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur. --Red Adair
Just wanted to point out that having a felony conviction doesn't necessarily mean somebody is an evil person.
... nah, it just means that they didn't have a very good lawyer.
I should point out that meta tables are not "wide" tables by themselves. It's also possible to use wide tables without meta (attribute) tables, so I suppose that's a third option. But generally for a larger system, those who want to avoid a large quantity of tables will use a combination of wide tables for attributes that are stable and common and meta(s) table for attributes and/or components that change often or are rare.
Table-ized A.I.
Rather than bash government, to be fair, large systems are difficult to get right regardless of whether its public or private. Private companies also have big messes. However, they are closed such that outsiders generally don't hear about it. Or else they fail because of their mess and disappear. Economic darwinism thus plays a role for private companies and companies with bad systems eventually fade into oblivion or get bought out by companies with better systems.
But, generally such trial-and-error is not an option for public agencies. They are expected to get it right the first time. I think its realistic to let them get something up and running that half-works, and then apply those lessons to a second generation design. Trial-and-error is sometimes a necessary evil.
Table-ized A.I.
They also thought there was a comma and that it was hiring advice: "Keep it simple, stupid".
Just wanted to point out that having a felony conviction doesn't necessarily mean somebody is an evil person.
Of course not. It's not the conviction that makes you a bad person, it's the felony you committed that makes you a bad person.
I thought the first thing you learned with SQL was creating and deleting databases. I've never met anyone who learned the former, but not the latter. You must have a TON of databases on your system.
It's not SUICIDE bombers, it's HOMICIDE bombers! Just watch Fox news! They know that unlike suicide bombers who die when they blow themselves and everyone around them into little pieces, these eveil terrorsists didn't commit suicide. So they can kill again and again and again!!!!
Stick the server in a burlap sack and pour water over it...
Wait - she was added at the age of -2?!
they should stop using MSAccess.
Haven't you heard? You've gotta watch out for dirty bombs that the terrorists are making. You never know when one of them is going to try to sneak one onto the airplane.
Well let me give you my personal experience about it. I have a relative named "David Hall." Pretty common name huh? Well he was put on the terror watch list years ago because there is a suspicious person named David Hall. He was able to determine that the person they were after was many years older, had a different birthdate, SSN, and even lived in a state he had never been in.
Since he flew a lot for work, the unfortunate consequence was being FULLY searched EVERY time he went through the airport. He finally called up the TSA once and told them, "How about I just come into your office. If I am your man, ARREST ME! If I'm not, then get me off of this list!" to which they responded, "I'm sorry sir, but it doesn't work that way."
Yeah, I was on the watch list myself, in some relatively minor category I guess. "Chris Burke" isn't exactly an uncommon name. Despite not being hassled by security since a few months after 9/11 (obviously I fell into some random Scary Hippie profile that they grew enough of a clue to stop using), suddenly I started getting the super-search every time I went through security, and couldn't use self check-in, and other minor inconveniences.
I found out when I asked an airline ticketing clerk what was up. She said there must be an evil Chris Burke out there (hey, I thought that was me!), made a phone call, said it was all cleared up, and after getting the super-MEGA-search going through security, I haven't had any problem since.
So not nearly as annoying as the cases where it takes years to get off the list and requires some act of God -- I guess there must be different levels of watch list that you can be arbitrarily placed in -- but still stupid.
The enemies of Democracy are
I just put you on the list.
Yea, but did you add his name to all 463 tables?
tomorrow who's gonna fuss
Having designed a couple of poorly-designed databases myself, I can understand how this can happen.
What I don't understand is why the hell there are 463 tables in this thing?
I mean, what all information do they need in there? Names, maybe a list of known addresses, social security numbers, phone numbers, other identifying information?
Perhaps a reason why they're on the watchlist at all? List of evidence putting them there? Political activities they've been involved in, letters to congress they've written? Types of books they've checked out of the library?
Maybe a list of all flights they've taken, and notes on how much trouble they've given to the TSA people when going through the checkpoints?
OK, that's three tables. What on earth are the other 460 for??
If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
Just make sure that we add a few names to the list, George Bush, Dick Cheney etc... And we'll see what happens!
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Just wanted to point out that having a felony conviction doesn't necessarily mean somebody is an evil person.
Yeah, thats pretty much what I'd expect a felon to say...
(yes I'm kidding)
"I'm a relatively respectable citizen -- a multiple felon, perhaps, but certainly not dangerous."
- Raoul Duke
period
Julio Henrique Morimoto juliohm@gmail.com
"If I was the person they were looking for, would I be quite so stupid as to travel under my real name with genuine IDs in my name?"
Criminals have been known to return to the scene of a crime to fetch their dropped wallet, write "This is a bank robbery, give me all of your money" on the backs of their own bills, checks, etc... They have even been known to withdraw money from their own bank account before robbing said bank. Some criminals are stupid enough to call the police for other reasons and don't understand that the cops will identify and arrest them once they show up.
Criminals are largely stupid. Most people realize that the amount of effort and planning it takes to be a successful criminal can be used to legitimately make money with far less risk.
Nothing at all! You think they use 'our' transportation systems? Why, that's for commoners!
Was this built in-house or by a contractor?
I ask, because I've been involved with government contracting work, specifically for the FAA. One aspect of the relationship I've repeatedly seen is private business' efforts to cripple the in-house engineering and software expertise of government agencies they do business with. We'd hire their key people away and call the legislators we owned to get funding for in-house projects killed just to drive the work out to us. Once the agency fell on its face a few times, political pressure would grow to quit wasting money and contract it out. To us. For big money.
Back when I was still in that biz, the Australian government's equivalent of the FAA, CASA, had undertaken a project to build some advanced air traffic control systems in-house. The attitude of our management was rage. "If this had been the United States, we'd have had them shut down."
If you need work done fast, you need people who can do it on the inside. Even if it goes out for contract, you've got to get the requirements written down correctly.
Have gnu, will travel.
> Actually, I think the SQL 2012 standard only supports the short form, "SADDAMIZE TABLE".
Isn't that an MS-SQL-only extension? I'm sure that I've seen it used on both Microsoft Access & Microsoft SQL Server...
here about the dangers of posting a link to xkcd on /.
shame on you. I missed 1 meeting, half of lunch, and didn't do anything all morning.
not only is time travel possible, it's irrelevant.
Some people never, ever, ever, delete their email, either.
If you're right and "terrorist" == "wanted felon" then you Americans are in deep shit.
I suspect you're somewhat right, though. I suspect people are being added by virtue of their "suspicious" beliefs or their participation in civic protests. There have been many stories on Slashdot about how police databases are not equipped to handle protesters or political speech - since they're set up only to record crimes, so police have been incorrectly designating civilians as "terrorists."
David Hall was probably someone arrested in a protest somewhere, or who gave a political speech the authorities didn't agree with.
You forgot
- if you are the same species, you are on the list
The government is a bunch of morons elected mainly by retards (that is us, the people). They hire brainless idiots to "run" the country and in the process totally screw it up. Government never does anything worth while. Oh, and please note, that goes for any company older than 10 years with more than 2,000 employees. Such companies evolve in exactly the same manner as government does.
It is beyond belief that people in the world actually think that the retards who try to run this country would be able to pull off something like a 9/11 "coup". Government employees are lucky if they put their pants on the right way every morning.
Its simple ... talented DBAs don't want to work for peanuts, which is why they don't work for the government.
Just wanted to point out that having a felony conviction doesn't necessarily mean somebody is an evil person.
That's exactly what an evil person would say.
paintball
...and yet despite it's failure to protect us, we have not been attacked.
Perhaps, just perhaps, this is evidence that it is not necessary?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I'm a felon, and I'm not on the list.
How Ironic is that?
...when the watch list hit 1,000,000 names...
Holy crap...that's like one in three hundred Americans on the watch list. Think about that for a second. This means on any given airliner, chances are the government considers at least one of your fellow passengers a person of interest.
Me thinks the signal to noise ratio of this list is mighty, mighty low (not that I expected much, but still, 1:300).
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
Ugh...a dirty bomb. Those are the worst!
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
Sure, but there's a huge difference between talented and incompetent. Surely this database can't be so complicated that it requires almost 500 tables - I bet I could design a database for the Encyclopaedia Britannica with fewer tables than that
The way to repeal this monster is to insert the names of all of our Congressmen, their families, and their office staff. Add the names of every confirmed administration official, with their families and staffs, and the repeal bill will be signed instantly.
Alternatively, insert the name of every federal judge, and it will get declared unconstitutional in a few days.
Throw in some Governors and other state-level politicians, some state judges, and all of the candidates for office (this is an election season), and it will really get noticed.
Well, that IS the full list (including international "persons of interest") and names is just that, names. Not people. If your name is James Wright but you're also known as Jimmy W, Jimmy the Wright and the Wright Stuff that's actually four names on their list.
:)
Again going back to the Daily Show quips, if this was a list of Mafia guys from Jersey a million names is about 20 people.
I thought the first thing you learned with SQL was creating and deleting databases. I've never met anyone who learned the former, but not the latter. You must have a TON of databases on your system.
That may be a philosophical choice for the DBA to make regarding the SQL noobs in question. Couldn't an argument be made that each SQL noob should have the ability to create and delete tables, not databases, within an instance?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
How long until there's a terrorist named Robert'); DROP DATABASE; --?"
I have a friend from Southeast Asia whose name, when you zero out the high-order bits of the usual UTF-8 encoding, comes out to just that. It'll be fun seeing what happens the next time he flies home to visit his family.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
If you look at the firehose, you will see that I, the submitter, was the one to add that XKCD link. The editors didn't do it.
I also changed the SQL injection because I didn't want to guess or type in all 463 tables. DROP DATABASE is so much more efficient.
- I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property
Ah...point taken. I will scale my incredulity back a little.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
The TSA also distributed the lists as separate searchable Excel spreadsheets. The last time I saw them, (roughly 6 months ago) the selectee and no fly lists were pushing 40MB and 15MB respectively. The airline security department would download a new list from the TSA on a daily basis. The Excel version was used as a backup in case the airline's database driven version rolled over and died (which it did frequently).
If you're wondering, I'm a former airline employee. I'm the one that the ticket counter agents would call to bypass the check-in restricted response when someone was flagged as a selectee or No-Fly. After verifying that they are or aren't a match based on the information provided, I'd make an entry in the computer that allowed the counter agent to check the person in.
The lists included all sorts of interesting data, like Birthdate/Birthplace, SSN, Driver's License Numbers, Passport Numbers, Description of the Person, State of Residence, etc.
I'd love to have downloaded them and posted them for the world to see, but I don't cherish the federal prison time that would have come with it.
Yes, but what makes you think they would worry about having a primary key? ;^)
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
There is some truth to that. I was recently in a conversation with a manager about that, he said "I wouldn't hire anyone with a felony, you just can't trust them.". I wondered about that a little as I personally know several felons that are actually pretty good people, one who borders on sainthood. That guy is amazing, true story follows: He broke down outside my parents house, does not know the first thing about cars and asks my dad for help. My dad flushes the cooling system and does a couple other repairs right there by the road, turns out this guy started a business in hardwood flooring and was extremely good at it. Well my parents hardwood floor is cut from the cherry trees that were on the property when my grandfather built it, he went out and matched the wood as close as he could then completely repaired and finished this floor for them. Then he found out about a friend of theirs that had to choose between food and presents for their kids on Christmas, so he went out and filled top to bottom, front to back his jeep grand cherokee with food, clothing, toys and drove it 300 miles to give to them. He's also a violent felon, who would have thought huh? If he does this for random people, I wonder what else he does?
I bet he's on the watch list as well, not that he cares though as he has to drive his work truck wherever he needs to go. Not all ex-cons are like this guy, but damn people like him give you hope.
"Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes."-Tycho
Nelson Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi, Mohandas Gandhi and Mordechai Vanunu, are (or were) felons.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Leaving one party with the power of the executive branch and the other with the power of the legislative branch ensures both active branches of government will battle each other and accomplish very little. This is perhaps the best a reasonable person can hope for and I believe it's that way by design. Given reign of both branches one party can do a great deal of damage to civil liberty in a very short time. Properly done, though, we should trade off which is which so that what energies they have left from fighting each other can be employed in reversing the actions of their predecessors. That way each generation will begin the same place the last generation did, and the power seekers will have been successfully turned from the tyrannical ways they seek and harnessed to the useful task of depleting the surplus productivity.
Please, don't hope for efficiency in government. History is full of efficient governments and living was free and easy under none of them.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Holy crap...that's like one in three hundred Americans on the watch list.
If it helps, more than one in one hundred US citizens are in jail.
Helps depress you, that is.
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
I thought it was an insulting way of telling people what to do with erroneous data that ended up in the database: 'Keep it, simple stupid'
As a man with the same name as an ex-Gitmo inmate, I get hassle.
Thankfully I'm not on the no-fly, but because my namesake was an inmate I'm denied luxuries like online checkin on US flights, use of automated checkin machines at airports and a bunch of other stuff. Not only that but at checkin desks I get, at the very least, the agent having to call upstairs and more usually a stern looking man taking my passport off for checks for a few minutes and then coming back and giving the all clear.
This speaks to me of broken systems because surely they have my passport number on record...
Anyway, it's an annoyance.
How do I mod something "+1 tragicomic"?
I'm on the list as well, and share the same name as a certain famous comedian. I asked an agent what the problem was and was told "Oh, you've probably got the same name as someone." I even went so far as to go through TSA's grievance site https://trip.dhs.gov/ with no luck.
The weird thing is that it is different from airline to airline. On United, I can check in online, but my wife can't. On Frontier, I can't check in online but she can't.
I guess I should have taken HER name when I got married, and not the other way around.
Planning to be moderated ± 1: Bad Pun.