New Nintendo DSi Announced

justme8800 writes "The DSi has a bigger screen, an SD card expansion, a 0.3 megapixel camera, is thinner (no GBA slot), and has improved audio. To be released in Japan on November 1st, everywhere else sometime in 2009."

Comments

More Info

[AKAImBatman]

FYI, there are more pics and details here: http://www.wiimedia.com/news/view/next_gen_nintendo_dsi_wii_storage_solution_and_more/
And here: http://www.dsfanboy.com/photos/nintendo-dsi/

Some of these details are a bit confused. For example, Nintendo appears to have announced a 300,000 pixel camera (0.3 megapixel), yet it's also being reported as a 3 megapixel camera. Also, there was a report (now believed to be unsubstantiated) that both screens would have touch capability.

What *is* known is that Wii Points will becomes Nintendo Points. Why? Because the DSi will have internal flash memory along with the SD Card slot that can be used to download games (both new and previous gameboy games) from the DS Shop Channel. Just like the Wii. The system also appears to have TWO cameras. One on the inside of the hinge, and one on the front cover. (More evidence that we're talking about a 0.3 megapixel camera capable of 640x480 resolutions.)

Nintendo also announced a Wii storage solution. The Wii Shop Channel will have the option to download directly to an SD Card. A player will then be able to use an "easy copy to the Wii's main memory" to play the game. It's not clear if Iwata meant the Wii would use some of its flash memory as cache, or if you really have to do the copy yourself.

The DSi will be priced in Japan at 18,900 Yen. Which is approximately $180. The DS Lite sells in Japan for ~$150, so that should give some clue to its likely American price.

Nintendo also announced new games in the form of Punch Out for the Wii, Sin and Punishment 2 for the Wii, Mario and Luigi 3 for the DSi, and Trace Memory for the DSi. They are also going to be "refreshing" the GameCube line (e.g. Pikmin and DK Jungle Beat) and re-releasing them for the Wii. I'm not sure what that's supposed to accomplish, but whatever.

Nintendo of America will hold its own press conference at 12:30 PM EDT.

Hopefully we'll get a few clarifications at NOA's press conference.

BTW, if you want to see videos of Nintendo's new stuff go here and scroll down to the box that says "Nintendo Conference". Inside that box are two large buttons. One is a video for the Wii, one is a video for the DSi.

Re:More Info

[Sockatume]

You can already do the SD->Wii copy manually. It seems that they've streamlined or automated the process somehow.

Re:More Info

[tzhuge]

"refreshing the GameCube line" sounds interesting to me...

There are GameCube games I would like to play (Wind Walker), but I don't really want to buy GameCube accessories to do it... and it takes effort to find that stuff anyways. This should also somewhat mitigate the rather poor lineup of upcoming games on the Wii.

Re:More Info

[avanderveen]

Yeah, I think the point is now that the DS has an SD slot you won't have to have a homebrew cartridge in order to share data between your Wii and DS.

A lot of the new add-ons the the DS are excellent, and they seem to be jumping ahead of homebrew in order to prevent piracy.

Re:More Info

[AKAImBatman]

The only accessories you need are a GameCube controller and a save card. Both can be found at your local GameStop for less than $10. Along with plenty of used GameCube games.

I imagine what this is really about is giving some games a second chance to shine. The GameCube wasn't exactly Nintendo's most popular system. And some of their best games (e.g. DK Jungle Beat) were sold in a fire sale because Nintendo needed to shift gears to a new strategy. (I got Jungle Beat + 2 bongos NEW for $14!) By reintroducing these games, they're pushing them out to millions of customers who never got the chance to play them when the GameCube was still supported. The advantage to re-releasing them as Wii titles rather than GameCube titles that work with the Wii is that Nintendo can distance themselves from the failure of the 'Cube.

Re:More Info

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two cameras. The .3mp is inside, and will be used for in-game functions. The 3mp is on the outside shell.

Re:More Info

[Dark_Matter88]

There are 2 cameras, much like a 3g videophone, one, 3 megapixel camera on the outside and a .3 megapixel inside

Re:More Info

[nobodyman]

For example, Nintendo appears to have announced a 300,000 pixel camera (0.3 megapixel), yet it's also being reported as a 3 megapixel camera.

I'm sure we'll find out shortly, but I wouldn't be surprised to find that both figures are accurate.
The pics indicate that it has two cameras (one on the outside of the clamshell and the inside camera the middle of the hinge facing the user. My guess is that the low resolution is on the inside to facilitate stuff like video-enabled chat.

Re:More Info

[AmaDaden]

This is correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS#Nintendo_DSi

Re:More Info

[AKAImBatman]

First off, that article does not confirm what the grandparent said. Secondly, I wrote that article. So take it with a grain of salt.

Re:More Info

[Anonymous Coward]

A 0.3 megapixel camera? I know the DS isn't the first thing that springs to mind to use as a camera, but when they're fitting 8 megapixels into mobile phones, you'd think they'd do a little better.

Re:More Info

[KDR_11k]

Well, you can download from the store directly to the SD card, usually you have to download to the internal memory and can then copy to the card.

Re:More Info

[David Nabbit]

First off, that article does not confirm what the grandparent said. Secondly, I wrote that article. So take it with a grain of salt.

Wait, Wikipedia isn't an infallible informational resource?

Re:More Info

[lysergic.acid]

while i wish console makers would embrace homebrew rather than resist it, i think Nintendo's approach makes a lot more sense than Sony's. rather than releasing constant firmware updates to break backwards compatibility with homebrew apps (keeping the system crippled via software), they should just be incorporating the in demand features that draw users to homebrew.

and i can't believe the DS already has direct access to an online content distribution service, and the PSP still needs a PS3 or a Windows PC running Internet Explorer in order to access PSN content. the PSP has had a built-in web browser since day one. it's as if the Sony execs are intentionally sabotaging the platform. heck, i wouldn't be surprised if the DSi's audio player has more robust features than the PSP's media player, which is still as bareboned as it was one launch day.

i wonder how the DSi's browser will perform compared to the PSP fat. i get out of memory errors after surfing for about 10-15 minutes--or even less, depending on how graphic-intensive the pages i visit are. the PSP slim's 64 MB of memory (double that of the PSP fat) might have improved the situation, but i don't know since i've never used one. i would not expect the DS's 4 MB of RAM to be enough for any kind of substantial web browsing.

Re:More Info

[AmaDaden]

From my link....

The new handheld will contain two 640x480 cameras (0.3 Megapixels each, one pointed towards the gamer and the other on the outside of the shell)

Wiki was an easy link to get, that is why I used it. But I can give you more if you want.

Nintendo has packed a 3-megapixel camera on the exterior of the case, with another lower-resolution camera on the interior hinge.

From http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10056529-1.html This image highlights the small interior camera. http://www.dsfanboy.com/photos/nintendo-dsi/1069060/ This one shows the exterior camera. http://www.dsfanboy.com/photos/nintendo-dsi/1069061/ Those images are from the Japanese site for the DSi http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/dsi.html

Re:More Info

[AKAImBatman]

The quote you posted says that BOTH cameras are 0.3 megapixels. The original poster said that one was 0.3 Mpx and the other was 3.0 Mpx. The two sources do not agree.

As for the CNet article, Nintendo has not said anything other than 300,000 pixels. Until we have confirmation from Nintendo, we do not know if the outer camera is of higher resolution. I'm expecting to see a press release soon which will hopefully clear up this mess. (Since Reggie completely FAILED to give any details. *sigh*)

Re:More Info

[Darundal]

Plenty of used GameCube games at GameStop? What bizarro world are you from? I usually find that they have relegated what few GameCube games they have to a single side of one of their half-height display shelves.

Re:More Info

[AKAImBatman]

What bizarro world are you from?

Chicago. And Mayor Daley would take you to task if he ever heard you refer to the city that way. (If you know what I mean... punk! :-P)

Around these parts, most GameStops usually have a full set of shelves with GameCube games on them. Most are available for around $10 or less, though a few (Mario Party, Zelda, etc.) can go as high as $30-$40. Granted, the selection pales compared to the PS2 selection, but we are talking about a console that only sold ~21 million units worldwide.

Re:More Info

[drinkypoo]

I think the only thing we know for sure is that having two VGA-res cameras on the unit would be stupid. It only makes sense to have a camera on the outside of the unit if it's worth a damn. You only need VGA-res (or less) to recognize facial elements and operate as an internet videophone; but if you want to take a still picture worth saving to that SD card then you're going to need something much better than 300,000 pixels. My RAZR V3i has a 1280x960ish 1.3MP camera which is definitely not high enough resolution for much of anything but providing the idea of something in most lighting conditions.

Re:More Info

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. It's on wikipedia so I know I can trust it.

Re:More Info

[Anonymous Coward]

I would ask what bizarro GC hating world you live in. There are no less than 5 EBStops in my sphere of regular travel and all have significant stocks of GC games.

Re:More Info

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, I'm just glad they've finally dropped that shiny, smudgy white plastic bullshit that's been plaguing consumer electronics since the G4 iMac in favor of a nice matte finish.

Re:More Info

[MidnightBrewer]

I can't believe they're being so stingy on the camera resolution. 3 Megapixels is the minimum on your average Japanese cell phone nowadays, so it's not like the technology is expensive (not to mention that the screens are smaller, so display resolution isn't exactly an excuse, either). Considering they're touting the ability to download content, you'd think they'd be more forward-thinking about the ability to upload as well using social websites like the Japanese Mixi, or the American Facebook.

Regarding the memory stick, yeah, it's strictly for transferring the games to the internal memory, nothing else.

Re:More Info

[penguin_man101]

The camera confusion comes about because there are actually two cameras on the unit. The one inside the fold is 0.3MP while the outer one is 3MP.

Re:More Info

[Lenneth]

I'm hoping you can use the sd card for caching.

Re:More Info

[Anonymous Coward]

Is the DSi going to support original DS games?

Re:More Info

[JessicaBrooke1087]

Are the going to make new games for the system? As in, are DSi games going to work on a lite or original DS?

Summary is wrong.

[GauteL]

The included camera is 640x480 or approximately 0.3 megapixels, not 3.0 megapixels.

Re:Summary is wrong.

[the_mind_]

Looks to me like there are two cameras.
one on the inside next to the microphone and a larger one on the outside.
I would think that the inner one is 0.3MP.
the outer one could be anything.

These new devices come out so often

[Kligat]

and so soon after the old version, only to leave a pit in the gut of anyone that just upgraded. Why shouldn't people just skip generations to wait for the next thing? That way, for instance, if you bought this thing after skipping over the DS you wouldn't have to worry about lack of games, because of backward compatibility.

I wonder if the older games are going to be treated like black and white movies, in that some people won't play the classic ones with worse graphics because they're "black and white."

Re:These new devices come out so often

[LWATCDR]

Well I am not going to rush out for one of these. I like some GBA games I own and I have Opera for it.
A .3 megapixel camera? Big deal.
Now If Nintendo included a VIOP and maybe a Video over IP that could be cool.
Sort of an Nintendo Phone :)

Re:These new devices come out so often

[DeltaStorm]

The original DS came out in 2004, the DS Lite in 2006. Two years for a consumer electronics product is a reasonable cycle. Do you also complain about auto manufacturers producing new models every year?

Re:These new devices come out so often

[neumayr]

This version has the serious drawback of not playing GBA games.
But yes, I did skip the lite-version and might get that one, maybe, as my old DS broke.

But there's no way to compare old games with worse graphics to black and white movies. Black and white movies have real benefits over color movies, technical, e.g. contrast range, and cinematic. People perceive pictures differently when they're black and white.
While games with worse graphics are just that, games with worse graphics. You might have a point when you actually meant to compare 2D vs. 3D graphics though..
Oh, and note I did not judge the actual content, I know some older games have a lot more depth than what's around nowadays.

Anyway, yes, people don't play games if they feel their graphics look bad. Not exactly news, though.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[megamerican]

Do you also complain about auto manufacturers producing new models every year?

I do because they produce new cars that aren't much better than the year before, then asked to be bailed out to the tune of $25 billion because nobody wants them.

They'll probably use that money to build a factory or two overseas, then use the rest to pay off some bank loans. Meanwhile, we borrowed that $25 billion from the FED at interest who creates it from nothing and the taxpayers are on the hook for it.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Miseph]

"But there's no way to compare old games with worse graphics to black and white movies. Black and white movies have real benefits over color movies, technical, e.g. contrast range, and cinematic. People perceive pictures differently when they're black and white."

I'm pretty sure that the GP was talking about the rash of B&W classics that are being re-made in color. Generally speaking, older black and whites have no technical benefits over modern color (due to improvements in film technology) and if the artistic benefits were to outweigh the value of color the remake would likely be shot in monochrome as well (or post-produced into it, as the case may be).

I think your (and probably the GP's) analogy fits more with special effects than it does with color mode. The only inherent difference between a movie with poor special effects and a movie with great special effects is just that, but there are to this day plenty of movies being made in black and white.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Hadlock]

Super Game Boy will allow you to colorize most B&W gameboy games to a palate of 4 colors. Also this is a terrible troll.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Hatta]

A lot of people watch older movies because the limitations forced their directors to focus on things like plot and character development instead of whizbang special effects. The same is true for games. There are many great games that are forced to excel in other areas like gameplay, atmosphere, etc. simply because of the hardware limitations.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Wintergr33n]

If you have GBA games, I wouldn't get one of these (since it doesn't have a GBA slot any more - that's how they got it slimmer)

Re:These new devices come out so often

[pizzach]

Someone above said something about how this new product will stand independent of the DS (at least for now). That makes sense as it mitigates the problems with releasing a new system too early. But at the same time, it means Nintendo will have different levels of DS and that doesn't sound like a standard strategy of theirs.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[daethon]

That depends on the car you buy. Some manufacturers, Mercedes for example changes the body style of their vehicles every 6 years, so you know that your car will look like the newest model for a specific period of time.

They will change some of the internals, different engine, different seats, interiors, etc, but externally it won't change

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Sancho]

I skipped out on the DS Lite because I had a perfectly good DS. I saw no reason to "upgrade" as the differences between the two were almost wholly in case design. Compare to the GBA and GBA SP, where they added a backlight (honestly, who thought it was a good idea not to have a backlight?)

The DSi at least has new features, so it may be worth it to upgrade for some. I hope that they don't release cartridges exclusively for the DSi, though--that way, madness lies.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[mabhatter654]

my kids have both and like to play GBA games on the Advance SP more than on the DS... which also covers games way back to game boy color. SP is still a big seller (more were sold than Xbox 360s last year!), and at only $60 there's no reason to duplicate functionality in a new DSi. The Lite could only play GBA games anyway so hard-core poke-crowd still need the SP..which is a frick'n tank!

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Hatta]

The original DS came out in 2004, the DS Lite in 2006.

How long was the original gameboy on the market?

Do you also complain about auto manufacturers producing new models every year?

Hell yes. What a waste of effort and resources! Unless they're fundamentally redesigning the vehicle, they should leave it alone, so that all the parts are interchangeable no matter what year it was built. It would be cheaper for everyone, owner, dealer, mechanic, manufacturer, everyone. Less R&D resources, more economies of scale, etc.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you understand that this is not a new console? It's simply a DS with some new features. It plays DS and GBA games only, just like the DS Lite and the original DS.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[neumayr]

Interesting point.
The new PSP has twice the RAM, did anybody release software that won't work on the old one?
The features that were added to the DSi don't really strike me as things to base a game on, but then the article was pretty impressive in its lack of information.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[David Nabbit]

If you have GBA games, I wouldn't get one of these (since it doesn't have a GBA slot any more - that's how they got it slimmer)

Of course you could always play your GBA games on your GBA.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[ryanguill]

While I fundamentally agree with you, I must say your analogy isn't very apt. They aren't coming out with new roads that aren't compatible with my one to two year old vehicle.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Anonymous Coward]

That way, for instance, if you bought this thing after skipping over the DS you wouldn't have to worry about lack of games, because of backward compatibility.

What backwards-compatibility? They took out the GBA slot. Terrible, that was the GameBoy series' biggest selling point.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[ukyoCE]

If they're going to keep making cars, why not include improvements?

That's like suggesting a website should have its developers working all the time, but only release the new features they've developed every 5 years.

(yes, I just made a computer analogy out of a car analogy out of a computer analogy)

Re:These new devices come out so often

[powerlord]

Saab does a good job of keeping their product line fairly stable with only minor tweaks. Its one of the things I like about them (besides their being outside my price range and the fact that I'm not looking for a car right now :) ).

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, there's just as much old crap as well, both in movies and games. People just ignore those and pretend that somehow things were all golden.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Overly Critical Guy]

Why is the parent marked as a troll? The grandparent post cited a $25 bailout in the automotive industry as a reason to complain about Nintendo releasing a new model of DS. Seriously.

Re:These new devices come out so often

[BarneyL]

That depends, will the new car be incapable of running on a lot of the old roads I like driving on and will I be unable to drive on future roads with my old car?

Re:These new devices come out so often

[Anonymous Coward]

"Do you also complain about auto manufacturers producing new models every year?"

Only if the new models require me to drive on a whole new road system, and they only kinda work on some of the old one. Oh, and the new road system will complete phase out the old one really quickly; so I'm forced to buy a new car.

Not 3 megapixels

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two cameras, and they're each 0.3 megapixels (640 x 480).

There are already incompatible games

[tepples]

Guitar Hero doesn't run on DSi. Nor does anything beyond the first third of Pokemon Diamond and Pearl (after you get the national Pokédex). And there's speculation on forum.gbadev.org that Nintendo might have used this as a chance to beef up the security against homebrew through a combination of digitally signing new DS titles and whitelisting old titles.

Re:There are already incompatible games

[hansamurai]

But you can also insert an SD card directly into the DSi now, I'm sure they will find a way.

Re:There are already incompatible games

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm curious what your sources are for that information? This product was just announced. How would anyone know if those games work or not?

Re:There are already incompatible games

[Anonymous Coward]

They cannot improve encryption/security without breaking compatibility with older DS software. So please give that argument a rest.

Re:There are already incompatible games

[Anonymous Coward]

Those games have custom hardware that plugs into the GBA slot, which the DSi does not have.

Re:There are already incompatible games

[nEoN nOoDlE]

Nintendo might have used this as a chance to beef up the security against homebrewpiracy through a combination of digitally signing new DS titles and whitelisting old titles.

There, fixed that for you. Seriously. The homebrew community is so tiny, that it's silly to think that homebrew is what they're going after.

Gain Some Lose Some

[GlobalColding]

Well my kids are pissed about losing the GBA slot, so they aren't planning on trading in their DSLites. Personally I like the 3mp cam. Having RTFA all the articles I could find on this one I am not sure what exact WiFi improvements are, I havent had problems setting up WiFi on the 4 units we own and the overwall WiFi performance has been adequate, but WPA support would be cool. Anyone know more about that part?

Re:Gain Some Lose Some

[Neko-kun]

Well, I didn't have any problems until I switched over to WPA instead of WEP, and since I'm running mostly on mac, I don't want to have to restart just to grab content using the DISCONTINUED dongle for Windows...

So yeah, I'm looking forward to this especially since I skipped the GBA generation.

And also, I never really saw the appeal to trading in systems unless the new system had everything the old one did, like the DS and the Wii and the Gameboy Color and the SP...

Especially the SP. The Gameboy really needed a backlight.

Re:Gain Some Lose Some

[porcupine8]

At first I was disappointed in the lack of GBA slot, but how many GBA games do you think will be available soon as $5-10 downloads? Which is cheaper than you can get most of the good ones used. If you already have a stock of GBA games that you play a lot it sucks to rebuy them, but I tend to buy one, play it, then trade it in (with only a few exceptions), so downloading for cheaper would be great!

Why DSi you ask?

[ZarathustraDK]

Because if they named it iDS they'd have a advertisement-nightmare when the Advanced version of that trinket came out.

Re:Why DSi you ask?

[ais523]

And also spark unsuppressable rumours about a merge with Apple's marketing department.

Re:Why DSi you ask?

[Draconix]

And then there's the whole communication with the Wii aspect of it, too. Something bothers me about the thought of my Wii being exposed to AiDS.

Those features are great and all...

[maugle]

but where the hell is my goddamn WPA support?

Re:Those features are great and all...

[AKAImBatman]

Nintendo announced a new WiFi adapter. So WPA support is probably in the new revision of the DS.

Re:Those features are great and all...

[tepples]

Nintendo announced a new WiFi adapter. So WPA support is probably in the new revision of the DS.

But possibly only for internal "channels" and new WFC titles, as existing WFC titles use a Wi-Fi driver on the Game Card, not in the internal firmware.

Re:Those features are great and all...

[Pixel_K]

but where the hell is my goddamn WPA support?

According to this link http://bb.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/news/23361.html (in Japanese) The DSi supports WPA(TKIP/AES) and WPA2(TKIP/AES)

Re:Those features are great and all...

[Anonymous Coward]

existing WFC titles use a Wi-Fi driver on the Game Card, not in the internal firmware.

Really? Because all of the WFC settings are saved on the console, not the individual DS cartridges. I'm finding it hard to believe that the individual cartridges would be a limiting factor in the usage of something other than WEP.

Re:Those features are great and all...

[tepples]

Really? Because all of the WFC settings are saved on the console, not the individual DS cartridges.

The settings are saved in the user settings area of the internal flash chip, but the code is on each Game Card.

Re:Those features are great and all...

[Golddess]

Interesting, do you have any proof of this? Because the only reasons I've found to be a limiting factor would be the extra processing power required to perform the more intensive WPA encryption.

Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing

[tepples]

They are also going to be "refreshing" the GameCube line (e.g. Pikmin and DK Jungle Beat) and re-releasing them for the Wii. I'm not sure what that's supposed to accomplish

Even if it's not an actual sequel, consider the case of Capcom's Resident Evil 4. It was ported from GameCube to PS2 to Wii, with enhancements each time. Or consider the first Animal Crossing game, which was ported from N64 (as Doubutsu no Mori) to GameCube (NTSC J, as Doubutsu no Mori +) to GameCube (NTSC U/C, as Animal Crossing | Population: Growing!) and back to GameCube (NTSC J, as Doubutsu no Mori e+), again with enhancements in each edition.

Re:Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing

[Bloomy]

to GameCube (NTSC U/C, as Animal Crossing | Population: Growing!)

It's just Animal Crossing. No "Welcome to", no "Population: Growing!".

Re:Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing

[tepples]

It's just Animal Crossing.

By your logic, Halo isn't "Combat Evolved". What designation distinguishes Animal Crossing the series from Animal Crossing the GameCube iteration? I can't say Animal Crossing 1 because the community is divided as to whether 2 is Wild World or Let's Go to the City/City Folk.

Re:Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing

[Anonymous Coward]

The proper title of the game is simply Animal Crossing. If those rare situations where it's not obvious by context what you're referring to you simply say "the series" or "the game".

Re:Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing

[Bloomy]

I usually use AC GC, or call it the GC version. Though I've rarely referred to the series as a whole. And which community is having a problem with the sequel numbering? I've just seen people refer to the DS and Wii sequels by their subtitle, usually abbreviated ([AC:]WW, [AC:]CF).

Re:Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing

[644bd346996]

If you refer to a game called "Combat Evolved", you will get funny looks, and somebody might figure out that you are talking about Halo. The "Combat Evolved" is at best a subtitle. It isn't meant to stand alone as an alternate title.

In the case of Animal Crossing, the disparity in font sizes on the box art is even larger. Only a fool would mistake the "Population: Growing!" as part of the proper title.

Re:Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing

[Golddess]

What designation distinguishes Animal Crossing the series from Animal Crossing the GameCube iteration?

The same designation that distinguishes Super Mario Brothers the NES game, the plumbers themselves, and the franchise itself: the context of the conversation.

Re:Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing

[walshy007]

consider the case of Capcom's Resident Evil 4. It was ported from GameCube to PS2 to Wii, with enhancements each time.

not sure what ps2 version you played, but it was really cut down graphically to run smoothly on the ps2, the wii version had similar graphics to the gamecube with updated controls and extras

GBA slot will be missed.

[Junior J. Junior III]

Losing the GBA slot is unfortunate, there were a lot of really good GBA titles that are still fun to play now.

In all likelihood Nintendo realizes this, and will re-package the old GBA titles on DS media form factor, and re-sell us the same games again, like they have with the Virtual Console on the Wii.

This makes total financial sense, but it's too bad. I can't think of any way as a consumer to act in a way that would give the incentive to Nintendo to retain backward compatibility so that I don't have to re-buy games I've already played. If we all don't re-buy, Nintendo would just not re-package to re-sell, rather than retain backward compatibility.

It seems like console makers have some incentive to provide backward compatibility during the intro period when they are transitioning from the old platform to the new, but once the new platform is entrenched they drop backward compatibility to cut costs/up profits.

Guess I'll keep my GBA SP2+ around, then.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[CSMatt]

Nintendo already dropped Game Boy (Color and original) compatibility with the Nintendo DS and Game Boy Micro. That they would drop the slot altogether isn't all that surprising.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[AKAImBatman]

GBA support isn't the real problem. The real problem is that the GBA slot was the DS's expansion port. Games like Guitar Hero: World Tour plugged hardware into that port. Without the port, these games will not work on the new DS. Even if the software is otherwise compatible.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[aero6dof]

This makes total financial sense, but it's too bad. I can't think of any way as a consumer to act in a way that would give the incentive to Nintendo to retain backward compatibility so that I don't have to re-buy games I've already played.

How about if you want to play the old games, pick up a few old instances of the old hardware? Used versions are dirt cheap? Personally, I'm willing to re-buy certain titles just for the convenience of not storing physical cartridge/game systems...

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Spatial]

Guess I'll keep my GBA SP2+ around, then.

And I'll be keeping my PSP around. Emulators are awesome. :)

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Sockatume]

It has a game download service. They don't have to re-package the GBA games, just provide them online.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[fbjon]

That's not really a widespread problem, though. There can't be that many truly useful expansions out there.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Junior J. Junior III]

Nintendo already dropped Game Boy (Color and original) compatibility with the Nintendo DS and Game Boy Micro. That they would drop the slot altogether isn't all that surprising.

Nope, it's not surprising at all. Just, I'm gonna miss the GBA slot.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Junior J. Junior III]

That works, as long as old hardware continues to be common. Over time, hardware will age and become more and more difficult to find in good repair.

With portable systems, the other problem is choosing which you carry with you. If I want a quick/convenient game, most likely I'm not going to haul a GBA and a DS around with me, I'm going to choose whichever one I think I'll enjoy more.

At home, I can just pull out whichever I have, sure, but part of the point of handheld systems is portability.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Junior J. Junior III]

"Provide online" is a form of repackaging for re-sale, unless they are making titles available online for free. That's the model with the Wii Virtual Console.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[zerocool^]

I'd rather have a "real" ds version of the only GBA game I ever purchased, which is Final Fantasy IIIUS. In the GBA version, because of the screen size, certain things are scrolled or removed off of the screen, which is annoying. But the MOST annoying thing is that FFIII was created to work on the SNES, with A/B/X/Y/L/R/St/Sl buttons, but the GBA only has A/B/L/R/St/Sl (no X/Y). So, on the GBA, FFIIIUS used start and select to emulate the functionality of X and Y.

Well, on the DS, you can't remap the buttons, so even though you have a perfectly working X and Y sitting right there, you end up using the tiny, difficult to press start and select buttons.

Meh.

~Wx

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't think of any way as a consumer to act in a way that would give the incentive to Nintendo to retain backward compatibility so that I don't have to re-buy games I've already played.
Guess I'll keep my GBA SP2+ around, then.

Holy fuck, looks like this might not be so intractable after all. C'mon people, there are about a zillion devices out in the wild that play GBA games now, INCLUDING THE DS SYSTEMS STILL BEING SOLD. If playing GBA games is at all important to you, I think you've got the fucking option.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Anonymous Coward]

IAADSD (I am a DS Developer)
Posting anonymously for obvious reasons.

The main reason for the removal of the GBA slot is likely the removal of the ARM7 for replacing with a simpler, less expensive hardware that does the same (DS has both ARM9 and ARM7. DS games run on ARM9 while ARM7 can't be accessed by the developer -runs custom nitnendo code-, and GBA games run on ARM7). I think DS was engineered from the begining for this to happen.

This will mainly impact homebrew developers, as homebrew will not run on DSi.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[neumayr]

Yes well, but they released the GBC in 1989. The first Nintendo handheld that did not play GBC games anymore was the NDS, which came out in 2004.
So they kept GBC compatibility for 15 years.
The GBA was released in 2001. And now, in 2008, after only 7 years, they drop support for its software.

No, it's not surprising they would drop the slot at some point. But I didn't expect them to do it so soon.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Hadlock]

Of which 2 or 3 games, one of which being the DS browser (now built into the system) used that exp. port. The exp. port-less system won't be sold in the US in quantity until 2009 so they still have another christmas' worth of DSes to be sold with the expansion port. Shrinking market? Perhaps, but that's 5 months from now and most of those DSes will continue to work for another year or two.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[AKAImBatman]

The problem is that two of those games (Guitar Hero & Pokemon) are HUGE. Which means that anyone looking to ditch their current DS to obtain money for a new DSi is out of luck. They either need to give up those games or keep two DS units (a Lite/Phat and a DSi) around.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Anonymous Coward]

At least there will be Gameboys of all varieties available until the end of time. Just make sure you snatch some up while the gettings good. I still have an original Gameboy even if it's not really necessary to have anything earlier than a SP. I'll likely purchase a second DS and SP if I see some versions I want at acceptable prices, just so I have a backup or two.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Darundal]

Game Boy was released in 89. Game Boy compatibility was kept for 15 years. The Game Boy Color was released in 98. Game Boy Color compatability was kept for 6 years.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Haoie]

Except only a handful of titles rely on the GBA slot.

Needs of the many vs needs of the few, maybe?

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Hadlock]

Something tells me very few people will upgrade (gamestop bought "fat" DSes for $70) to a 1/4" larger screen and almost no new features with only a $70 trade-in value on a DS Lite to not be able to play guitar hero and/or pokemon. Pokemon is huge, but what are the sales numbers for Guitar Hero DS? We're probably talking 100,000 copies sold out of 15? 20? million DS lites sold? the minor improvements are to help it sell against the PSP, not get existing users to upgrade. Are you REALLY going to buy a new DS just to have an SD card?

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[AKAImBatman]

Where in the world are you getting your figures? GH:OT has already sold 1.35m copies. Nintendo even has a limited edition DS Lite/Guitar Hero bundle for sale! Also, I think you are underestimating the extent of these features. We're talking about the ability to emulate old game and play downloadable games at a minimum. Likely, we're also talking about boosts in CPU/GPU performance, which means that DSi games will be better games as well. A bit like the GBC was to the original GB.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Whyte Panther]

There are actually two reasons to keep a GBC instead of/in addition to an SP. The first, is the infared wireless port on the GBC. It was used in a few games (Pokemon mostly) for various quick multiplayer/data transfer bits. The second, is the game Kirby's Tilt and Tumble, which had a motion sensor in the cartridge to detect the tilting of the system. The cartridge slot points towards the bottom on the GBA SP instead of the top, so all of the tilting would be read the opposite of normal. You could play it on an original GBA though.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Guitar Hero: On Tour was released in 2008. Guitar controller compatibility was kept for...well, not long.

And this was not the only game to use the GBA port as an expansion port.

Which suggests that these third-party developers didn't bother to ask, or Nintendo didn't bother to tell, or both. Either way, it kinda screws the customers.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[dbIII]

The other option (Ah me hearties) is to use slot 1 devices that can run the gameboy games just like the devices that go into the GBA slot (slot 2) can. It's a matter of getting it to load in the right bit of memory instead of a physical slot.

I already have a mini-SD card in my DS (or even a compact flash card if I don't mind it sticking out a bit - so I can view photos from my camera on the DS) and it's been a pretty good mp3 player for a few years. Also it runs linux :)

WPA wireless networking would be nice and VoIP with video would be a killer app on these things. I'd buy it just for WPA.

Re:GBA slot will be missed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait... Doesn't the DS utilize both of them? I was under the impression that the 2d core was the ARM7 and that the 3d Core was the ARM9.

3.0?

[Anonymous Coward]

TFA says .3 megapixels.

Anyone know which is correct?

Re:3.0?

[KDR_11k]

Well, there's two cameras on the thing, maybe both are...

No GBA slot, no sale.

[BlakLanner]

I see no reason to pick this one up if they remove the GBA slot. One of the more popular features of the Nintendo handhelds is the backwards compatibility. The ability to only have to carry one device to play all my games was a nice feature. Also, there are several DS games that can have extra features unlocked or data transferred from GBA carts. Obviously, this kills that bonus as well. As much as I would really like to have the better wireless features, I will just have to make do.

heh

[stoolpigeon]

I just picked up a used ds lite with 3 games for $100. That should hold me for a while. I like that I can play GBA games on it - wouldn't want to give that up to be honest. The camera and music don't matter - I have other devices for that. The wireless store is cool - but not enough for me to shell out a bunch of money again. I'll probably end up getting a used DSi somewhere down the road I guess.
 
I'm more interested in seeing what happens with Apple. I keep seeing articles saying the ipod touch is a threat to the ds. I personally don't see it - but I'm not good at predicting that kind of thing. I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

The end of backwards compatibility for real?

[damn_registrars]

I for one thought it was interesting that while Nintendo kept bringing out new home systems with approximately zero ability to play titles from earlier systems, they kept the ability to play old game boy games for years and years as they brought out new systems. If the GBA slot is gone, does that mean that now Nintendo no long feels it worthwhile to maintain the ability to play old titles?

Re:The end of backwards compatibility for real?

[grumbel]

they kept the ability to play old game boy games for years and years as they brought out new systems.

GBAmicro already lacked support for Gameboy and Gameboy Color titles, DS lacked support for those as well, the DS also lacked the GBA link port, making GBA multiplayer or Gamecube links impossible. So everything after the GBAsp was already crippled and its no surprise that they removed the port on the DSi, since it wastes quite a huge amount of space that likely was needed for the bigger screens, cameras and SD card slot.

Re:The end of backwards compatibility for real?

[EchaniDrgn]

I don't see where your claim that they:

...kept bringing out new home systems with approximately zero ability to play titles from earlier systems...

The Wii not only plays GameCube games, but it also has the same 4 ports for GameCube controllers and two slots for GameCube memory cards.

Re:The end of backwards compatibility for real?

[porcupine8]

You can't play classic Gameboy games on a DS (or even a Micro). I'm sure they could have included another slot, but that would... make the handheld bigger than they wanted. They decided that cutting down on size was worth the loss of one level of backwards compatibility. Same here - only this time, they can offer the GBA (and classic GB even) games for download, so they really have no reason to sacrifice space for being able to use older physical media.

Re:The end of backwards compatibility for real?

[fabs64]

Maybe, but then you have to think it's been 4 years since the original DS came out, and this new DS will still be able to play its games. Keeping 4 years worth of backwards compatibility is still a fair effort.

Re:The end of backwards compatibility for real?

[Anonymous Coward]

This post isn't "Insightful"; it's ludicrously wrong. While it's true that the Gamecube didn't offer backwards compatibility with N64 carts, it's hard to miss that the Wii is the only current system with 100% backwards compatibility. That's not even approximately "approximately zero".

No WPA!

[Lord Byron II]

Still no WPA. It's just embarrassing now.

Re:No WPA!

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares? WPA is just as broken and crappy as WEP.

Basically what it comes down to is that you're only keeping the honest people out (or your dumb neighbor who unknowingly lets their laptop connect to the first open connection it finds..)

Personally I just limit connections based on MAC addresses. It's easier and works just as well.

Re:No WPA!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this embarrassing? What's embarrassing is that people use WPA and actually believe it's any more secure then WEP.

It's not.

Re:No WPA!

[andy9701]

That works fine, except for the fact that MAC addresses can be easily spoofed.

I don't keep up on wireless security too much, but I thought that WPA2 was, as of now at least, unbreakable? Or at least nowhere close to as bad as WEP.

Re:No WPA!

[Anonymous Coward]

I wasn't presenting an unbreakable solution.

I might be mistaken but I think WPA2 can be broken fairly easy. A guy I use to work with used a simple program he found online to break into any of these in just a matter of mins or seconds.

If you saw how easy it was you would wonder why you bothered at all. Other than to keep the honest people out.

Re:No WPA!

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically what it comes down to is that you're only keeping the honest people out (or your dumb neighbor who unknowingly lets their laptop connect to the first open connection it finds..)

That's one of the most absurd pieces of logic I've ever heard. You're saying that if I don't break into your network it's because you put a lock on it that I didn't want to take the time to try and thwart, not because I'm an 'honest person' and didn't even try to break in in the first place. Further, you're implying that if the locks weren't there I'd just traipse on in and steal everything of value for the simple reason that there weren't any locks there to stop me.

Personal morals? Hah! Laughable!

Re:No WPA!

[Tatsh]

I agree completely. Why should I have to dumb down security just to play online? If they aren't going to put WPA, then they should put an ethernet port on it or make an adaptor. Also, their adaptor for PCs doesn't work with Linux as far as I know.

Re:No WPA!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't put your credit card numbers into your... I don't know?

GBA slot missing is not a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Because GBA games can be run from SD

Re:GBA slot missing is not a problem

[basscomm]

That may be, but how are those GBA games going to get to the SD cards? Unless I can cram my old carts into the SD slot, I'm thinking that I'm going to have to buy them all again.

Re:GBA slot missing is not a problem

[dances with elks]

the GBA slot is also the hardware expansion port

Re:GBA slot missing is not a problem

[Tacvek]

My best guess here is SDIO will be the new expansion mechanism.

What use is a 0.3megapixel camera?

[fprintf]

I am tired of fuzzy cameraphone shots. Heck, I had a camera on my palm pilot years ago and it took nothing but fuzzy 640x320 pictures. Nasty, and not a feature I can see anyone needing. You need to take pictures? Grab a proper $100 digital camera.

Re:What use is a 0.3megapixel camera?

[vadim_t]

Picture quality is more about the lens than the resolution. With the tiny lens on all those devices, if you could put a 20 MP pixel, the pictures would still come out horrible.

Re:What use is a 0.3megapixel camera?

[Vandil X]

Likely Uses:

• Take a photo (outside cam) and edit it, save it, transfer it. Embarass your friend with stuff drawn on their pic. etc.
• Take a photo of your face (inside cam) and have that be the face in your game's avatar/status screen, etc.
• Associate faces with the saved scores of friends, etc. Contact book, etc.
• A future WarioWare game that reacts to facial expressions or the hand covering/uncovering the inside cam.

Re:What use is a 0.3megapixel camera?

[S3D]

Theoretically camera can be used for camera-games, or "augmented reality" games. However if DSi use the same 67Mhz+33Mhz CPUs it would be highly difficult to squeeze non-trivial markerless or multimarker tracking into device. Simple ARToolkit-stile tracking still possible though even with those CPUs.

Re:What use is a 0.3megapixel camera?

[Hadlock]

Also the quality of the sensor, the size of the sensor, and the color balancing software.... there are many variables that make an equal impact on image quality. Electonic noise around the sensor makes a large impact as well.

Lack of GBA slot easily solved (and improved on)

[sjonke]

Virtual Portable. Not only downloadable GBA games, but GBC, GB, Gamegear, NeoGeo Pocket, Lynx, etc. That's not a press release, just my own note of an obvious thing for Nintendo to do. Aside from being able to play your GBA games this way, you'd be able to carry all of them with you without carrying/fiddling with any cartridges. Too bad they aren't doing the same with the DS games. Or are they? Or perhaps for new DSi-only games. That's certainly the direction they should be going: all download.

radio shack

[gEvil (beta)]

Guess this is why my local Radio Shack has been selling new DS Lites for 95 bucks for the past few weeks. Since the new one has no GBA slot (and no new features that I really care about), I may have to go grab one on clearance.

Sold!

[Setherghd]

From TFA:

...and it's possible to download games and keep them on the DSi.

I'm buying one.

Re:Sold!

[Tetsujin]

From TFA:

...and it's possible to download games and keep them on the DSi.

I'm buying one.

Yeah, the possibility of downloadable "DSWare" on this thing is the one part of the whole deal that's really attractive. I don't care about MP3 playing or a crappy VGA-resolution camera (ugh), and the fact that homebrew may not work on the thing is unappealing... But downloadable titles? Hell yeah... On the Wii I've been playing tons of Dr. Mario online and Mega Man 9, and eyeing the new Bomberman online - having that kind of stuff on the DS would rock.

I surely sympathize with people who would want to play Guitar Hero and such on the new model (as well as the folks who developed Guitar Hero DS, and now may have a harder time selling it...) - that issue doesn't affect me so much, though.

Homebrew?

[MobyDisk]

I own a DS for home brew. I set it to auto-load DSOrganize when I turn it on, and I have various home brew games on it as well as my own creations.

I can't imagine that Nintendo didn't change the security, so the cat and mouse game will continue. Hopefully it won't end. Otherwise *gulp* I'll have to start developing for the iPhone. :(

Re:Homebrew?

[mrchaotica]

I can't imagine that Nintendo didn't change the security, so the cat and mouse game will continue. Hopefully it won't end. Otherwise *gulp* I'll have to start developing for the iPhone. :(

Why not just develop for something that's actually open, so that you don't have to play cat-and-mouse games with DRM?

Re:Homebrew?

[gauauu]

Because part of the fun is developing on a platform that has users. Does anybody actually buy things like the Pandora other than homebrew developers?

Re:Homebrew?

[wertigon]

Does anyone actually jailbreak DSes except a small minority that wants to run emulators or similar?

Re:Homebrew?

[sowth]

According to the page you linked, the Pandora is over $300(us). I can buy an Asus Eee for that much. As for the GP2X, it appears to be $180(us), still more expensive than a DS.

The Wikipedia page also says the GP2X has DRM, so it is also locked down like the DS. Apparently it doesn't have many restrictions yet, but who knows if it will in the future.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Which DSi are we talking about?

[cheesecake_jones]

Someone please clarify for me... Is this DSi Miami, New York, or the original one that was in Vegas? If there's no Grissom, then I'm not interested.

Re:Which DSi are we talking about?

[.sig]

RTFA - It's DSi Tokyo

Re:Which DSi are we talking about?

[ekgringo]

This is DSi: Special DRM Unit

The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[Dzimas]

One of the driving forces behind the development of the DSi is the rampant piracy in the DS market. You can buy a flash card and 1GB microSD card that'll run copied ROMs for less than $20 these days. I fully expect Nintendo has incorporated some fairly aggressive tech to prevent copying. That's not a bad thing, except that it throws up yet another roadblock for homebrewers. The DS is a capable, affordable and widespread platform that would benefit tremendously from independent development, yet there's no way that Nintendo is every going to let that happen without extracting a pound of flesh through their online download service.

We're officially in a new era in which manufacturers see it as their duty to lock down their portable computers - I hope that the Pandora is a success, although I fear we'll have to wait a few years before a manufacturer comes along and blows the market open with a tiny box that can run third party code without obstruction

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[Lumpy]

It will fall hard just like it has on the Wii.

when will they get it through their heads that they can not win that war?

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[Anonymous Coward]

They did the same with the Wii. Let it run pirate games early on, build a huge user base creating demand, then tighten control gradually locking it down.

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

One of the driving forces behind the development of the DSi is the rampant piracy in the DS market.

How rampant? Thousands? Millions? Got some numbers?

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[eagee]

Unfortunately, common sense is not a job requirement for running a large company. I just wish they would let me buy a dev kit if I wanted one :(.

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[pokerdad]

It will fall hard just like it has on the Wii. when will they get it through their heads that they can not win that war?

They are winning that war; its just that their notion of win is different than yours. Nintendo's goal isn't to stop the people who are homebrewing from homebrewing, its to stop the masses from engaging in piracy (make it hard enough that most people either won't understand how to do it, or won't care to spend the time); that their actions give homebrewers some small challenges is just a side effect.

The homebrew community laughs when Nintendo releases an update that breaks homebrew, but then the community has a fix within hours. What the community seems to be missing is that Nintendo hugely stops the proliferation of the explotation of the system every time such an event occurs. Sure your system barely misses a beat, but how many non-tech friends/relatives are you going to set up their system to run homebrew when you know that every month or so they are going to be calling you for help? More to the point, how many non-tech people are going to keep using pirated games when for reasons they can't understand the games stop working every time the system updates?

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, common sense is not a job requirement for running a large company. I just wish they would let me buy a dev kit if I wanted one :(.

Here's the application to become a Nintendo dev. Get accepted and you can buy your kit.

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[Dzimas]

GamePro recently reported that "In the April to June period this year there were about half [the DS game sales] of the same period last year." This huge drop is difficult to explain, even with a maturing product. Nintendo filed suit against five distributors of the R4 flash cart in Japan this the summer in an attempt to slow piracy, but its impossible to know just how many pirate cards have been imported from China.

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have any hard numbers, but I can say that out of the 15 or so people I know with a nintendo DS, 13 have an R4DS or equivalent flash card. I go to a university with lots of asian people, but still, 13/15 is pretty bad for nintendo.

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[Tatsh]

That was my first thought on this. Nintendo probably put something in this to prevent devices like M3 and R4 from working.

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I don't have any hard numbers, but I can say that out of the 15 or so people I know with a nintendo DS, 13 have an R4DS or equivalent flash card. I go to a university with lots of asian people, but still, 13/15 is pretty bad for nintendo.

Unfortunately those numbers are pretty meaningless to me. I don't mean that to be insulting or anything, I'm just saying that your local group of people doesn't really speak for a larger group. For example: Out of 20 or so coworkers I have, something like 17 of them have XBOX 360's and 2 of them have Wii's. That's an interesting number considering Nintendo has sold more consoles than 360's, right?

Thankfully, though, somebody else in this thread did get some info I was able to find out a little bit more on. 500k units of DS software were sold in South Korea, but 800k DS's were sold. Weird, huh? That's the first real number I've seen. Even that is questionable. Maybe the used market is really strong there? Maybe they primarily purchase imports that aren't tracked via Nintendo's official channels? Who knows? But it is weird, and it's the first time I've ever seen an actual discrepency potentially caused by piracy.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, here. Lately I've seen a lot of extreme conclusions drawn that, if you take a step back, don't make that much sense. One guy yesterday was saying that the whole reason for this new DS is to combat piracy. He genuinely thinks millions of people are actively NOT buying DS games. Okay, fair enough. But why would Nintendo fight piracy with a machine featuring an added SD-card slot? Isn't that like waving a red cape at the people who like to tinker with this stuff?

Okay, I'll get off my soap-box. I think I've gotten a little too close to this topic.

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[fabs64]

So why don't nintendo provide an avenue for homebrew that's just a little bit of a pain? Say the ability to run unsigned code but you need to set up a dev environment and recompile from source for each console. For homebrewers that's not even close to an issue, and would mean they'd likely not bother trying to find other hacks.

Re:The jury's out on homebrew compatibility...

[Anonymous Coward]

I somehow doubt that Nintendo even cares about the home brew community anyway. They just want to make a best-faith effort to combat game piracy. In contrast to PC game publishers' methods of curbing piracy (DRM is evil but that's another topic), I really have no problem with how console makers lock down their systems. The reality is that most people, myself included, do not use their game systems for anything other than their intended purpose: playing games, and a few random multimedia applications. So, the hardware manufacturer can make the assumption that no "foreign" software is running on their systems, and their methods of locking down valid software isn't going to screw up someone's livelihood. After all, why would anyone want to balance their checkbook on a Nintendo Wii? It's not a DRM issue, it's just certifying valid software on a closed system.

I know that home-brewing on a console and getting "unauthorized" data to run on it is a challenge that dedicated people love to take on, but as far as I'm concerned it's just impractical. Plenty of open game systems exist that don't require you to wrestle with protection schemes (PCs, the GP2x, and so on), so I really couldn't care less about home-brew. Nintendo is a company that I want to support with my money, so I have no intention of pirating their games either. Those are the only reasons why I would mod my game system or run software exploits, so while I have the knowledge necessary to do it, my attitude is why bother? I'm not saying people should stop trying, but don't be surprised when the majority of users don't care enough about home brew to make it a big issue. That's why Nintendo considers their anti-piracy measures a success.

New shiny toys

[Captain Spam]

I'll be honest, I haven't played my GBA games in a while (gasp! zomgshockhorror what sort of nerd is this?!?) and I'm not in the homebrew community (gasps have now been replaced by sounds of fainting from the peanut gallery), so I won't be missing that end of it. And I still have my trusty GBA SP if worse comes to worse, and I don't NEED to trade in my old DS ("DS", hard stop — yes, just the DS, not Lite). And (potentially) finally being able to ditch WEP on my wireless network would be a very nice addition.

And I'd be willing to bet Nintendo will have a way to access the camera from games, leading to all sorts of frivolity and goofiness along the way (members of the peanut gallery are now calling for my head). So I say, bring it on.

Re:New shiny toys

[Pervaricator General]

Agreed. Its a DS, not a data center. If you REALLY want home-brew, support Android and move us down the road to TRUE convergence. Until then, stop complaining when a company doesn't cater to .01% of its market at the expense of trying to protect itself from Hong Kong pirates (like New York sidewalks, but 1000x worse).

Re:New shiny toys

[uberjoe]

And I'd be willing to bet Nintendo will have a way to access the camera from games, leading to all sorts of frivolity and goofiness along the way (members of the peanut gallery are now calling for my head). So I say, bring it on.

I just can't wait until all terrified local news outlets discover that scary pedophiles can now molest The Children with video chat as well as simple text!

0.3 megapixels?

[scorp1us]

OOh they do make cameras worse thatn the iphones!

At 0.3, that's like 640x480...

Re:0.3 megapixels?

[Colonel Korn]

It's not so bad...my phone's screen is only 640x480, and a 640x480 image looks nice on it. I imagine most DS photos will be viewed on a similarly small device...say, a DS.

Re:0.3 megapixels?

[Yvan256]

Nintendo DSi -> take picture -> save to SD card -> insert SD card in Wii -> view photo on Wii.

0.3 megapixels = 640x480
Wii = 480p

I do wish they made it 3MP instead of 0.3MP. IMHO 0.3MP is just enough for webcams.

Re:0.3 megapixels?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it is correct. The internal camera (where the microphone is now) is a 0.3MP camera. The camera on the outside is 3.0 MP

Re:0.3 megapixels?

[grumbel]

They did, the DSi has both a 3MP camera (on the outside) and a 0.3MP camera (on the hinge inside), later one is for video chat I assume.

Re:Lack of GBA slot easily solved (and improved on

[cheesecake_jones]

They could even support NES and Master System Virtual Console titles, I'm sure.

Mario Kart

[itamihn]

Will they release yet another version of Mario Kart for the DSi? I am sure of it! :)

No thanks

[Millennium]

So they managed to bloat it (camera, music) AND cripple it (GBA, battery) at the same time? No thanks, Nintendo; swing and miss.

Re:No thanks

[Icegryphon]

I agree. Why do you need a camera support. Music support is fine. But they never should of crippled the GBA support. I need to finally pickup one before they switch over to this new POS.

Re:No thanks

[uglydog]

I think the additional features are a good idea. I use the R4 for music and video so that makes sense. And I can see how a camera could be used in some games. So I wouldn't call that bloat. Bloat implies that the addition of that particular feature caused a slowdown or something.

And I don't mind the GBA slot being gone. Out with the old, in with the new. I don't use it all that much anyway. A few games sure, but it's not a deal killer for me.

The battery life IS a problem. I normally use the least bright setting and can go for quite some time without a charge. Dropping from 19 to 13 hours is kind of annoying.

I wouldn't call the new device crippled though. Hey, guess you just feel stronger about it. I'll probably pick one up.

Re:No thanks

[Ogive17]

Wow, so how long have you been testing the DSi? I wish I could get hooked up and have Nintendo give me unreleased hardware to mess around with.

Price drops to DS?

[drakono]

I haven't jumped on the DS bandwagon yet, so I wonder if this will be an opportunity to snatch up the old DS model for less? That is, before Nintendo stops production and makes them unavailable. (Sure, there's always eBay, but I avoid that place as much as possible.)

Re:Price drops to DS?

[bilbravo]

I'll sell you my original DS cheap!

Palm/Pocket PC

[argent]

Palm and Pocket PC have had a pretty thriving casual gaming market for some time. The lack of processer power, and particularly the lack of graphics acceleration, have limited them to casual gaming... but there's no reason that a decent "power user" PDA couldn't blow the market open the way you're thinking.

Subtle

[Whyte Panther]

Games announced "for the DSi"... does this mean that DS and DS Lite will not play Mario and Luigi 3 or the new Trace Memory? Is this actually a new generation instead of an upgrade? If it's an upgrade, I'll probably pass, but if this is actually the new generation, and is required to play future games, then they probably have a sale, sad to say.

Re:Subtle

[AKAImBatman]

I'm not sure if M&L and Trace Memory will be DSi only. However, this does appear to be a generational update. Ninty hasn't released hardware specs, but it seems clear that the DSi will have a beefier CPU and GPU than its predecessor. Combined with the new hardware functionality, this is going to be a generational update.

Re:Subtle

[i.of.the.storm]

Really? I can't find any indication that the specs have improved. I was really hoping for a boost in horesepower and higher resolution screens, as well as stronger wifi (802.11g) with WPA support. All of these haven't been clearly mentioned, so I'm not really sure whether I'll upgrade, but the annoying thing is that my DS Lite has a somewhat common shoulder button issue, and it might be worth it to trade it in for this new iteration since it's out of warranty. The problem is that I already have a web browser and MP3 player on my DS through homebrew, and I bet the DSi will lock out homebrew carts since it seems like this iteration actually has a somewhat advanced firmware, and is probably upgradable since it has onboard storage. The downloadable games do seem nice though.

Re:Subtle

[Captain Spam]

Even if the specs haven't improved (beyond token WiFi upgrades to support potential WPA, the webcam, etc), there's the new toys on the device regardless. I'm certain Nintendo's included a way to access the camera from in-game, same with the SD card reader, so there may wind up being games that, even if the DSi's hardware isn't that much stronger than the DS's, won't run on the old DS solely due to it not having the neat new stuff.

Granted, I seriously doubt they'll make the transition-period games DSi-only, especially given the massive customer base of the DS, but I can see it happening later down the line.

Re:Subtle

[i.of.the.storm]

On second thought, if they intend to use the hinge camera for video chat, they probably made the wifi a lot stronger. The current wifi is ridiculously slow, at least gauged through homebrew software downloads which maxed out around 30kbps for me.

Re:Subtle

[Brian Kendig]

I believe that DSi games will play just fine on the DS. Even if they take advantage of the new DSi features, I'm betting these will be optional, and will still play just fine on the DS.

Why do I think this? First off, a game maker would much rather sell to DSi + DS owners rather than just the DSi crowd. Also, the DS and the DSi look practically identical and have nearly identical names - it's too easy (especially for the uninitiated) to get them confused, and it would generate a lot of bad sentiment if people bought DSi games and were unable to play them on a DS.

Plus, if the chip specs were upgraded, I'd think Nintendo would be making a lot of noise about this.

The only thing they haven't talked about which would shock me if it were omitted is 802.11g/WPA support. WEP is so ancient by now that it's hard to find a network for my DS to connect to.

Re:Subtle

[i.of.the.storm]

Yeah, I do see your point. Hardware wise it's not much different but software wise there is a lot of new stuff going on. I'm guessing there's more capable firmware now since it has the ability to run downloaded games, and that same firmware probably blocks homebrew devices from booting. I'm not entirely sure how they work but I believe they did something with fooling the DS into thinking it's a retail cart but they might have figured out a way to detect that now. Nintendo's been making a pretty big fuss over piracy lately, and both this and the upcoming Wii update for loading games from SD seems like a vector for further anti-piracy efforts.

Re:Subtle

[lysergic.acid]

do consumers really like this sort of incremental upgrade/gradual obsolescence? i much prefer the traditional model of distinct generation gaps between each console. the PSX came out and supported all games/peripherals/features up until it was completely phased out. the only changes were minor or superficial upgrades that didn't leave existing console owners feel left out. the PSOne simply shrank the system's form factor down. same thing happened with the PS2 and slimline update. no new features were added, and the platform retained full backwards compatibility.

however, with the PSP you start seeing incremental updates that put early adopters at a disadvantage. for instance, the PSP slim was given a TV out, internal flash memory, and later Skype support which would not be implemented on the PSP fat. IMO these incremental upgrades screw over loyal customers and are really better suited to modular hardware like computer systems. the point of purchasing a console over a computer is so that it won't become outdated after a few weeks, forcing you to constantly upgrade to keep up with the latest specs.

but at least the PSP didn't introduce hardware upgrades that would break the forward compatibility of older hardware revisions. my PSP fat will still play any new games released for the platform. if Nintendo starts publishing DSi-only games they'll basically be making all DS and DS lites obsolete. i mean, they could start selling camera peripheral attachments for DS/lite owners, but then game developers would still have to design games around the DS's processor & memory specs.

Re:Subtle

[Tangent128]

It could work like the Gameboy Color did- it plays the old games (Pokemon Red/Blue), some games can choose to use its additional features while remaining backwards compatable (Gold/Silver), and there may be a few games that will only run on it (Crystal I think, a random Disney game or two, etc.).

Re:Subtle

[Darundal]

When Nintendo started making Game Boy Color games, they didn't obsolete Game Boys or Game Boy Pockets.

Re:Subtle

[Golddess]

no new features were added

Unfortunately, plenty of features were removed between console revisions.

Re:Subtle

[lysergic.acid]

i completely forgot about the GBC. but yea, i think that would be a better model.

truthfully though, they could have just made the GBC a completely separate platform since it came a whole 8~9 years after the Game Boy was introduced. i think few companies would go to such efforts to maintain forward compatibility of nearly a decade-old hardware.

if Nintendo starts making DSi-only games, then they'd be making the DS Lite obsolete after just a 2-year product life, pissing off a lot of consumers. OTOH, if Nintendo only makes the DSi's additional features an optional component to new games, then they won't be releasing any games that really take full advantage of the DSi's upgrades. so you won't see any games that really incorporate the DSi's camera into its core gameplay. this would preclude the release of innovative camera-centered titles similar to the Eye of Judgment for the PS3.

Re:Subtle

[lysergic.acid]

from the PS1 or PS2 generation? i don't recall any notable feature drops from the PS1. but then again i never owned the later hardware revisions like the PSOne.

besides,the PS1 didn't have an awful lot of auxiliary features to begin with. aside from CD playback, i don't know what they could have removed and kept the system a playstation.

Re:Subtle

[petermgreen]

The PS2 slimline made a few feature changes though they were mostly negative. It dropped support for firewire hard drive and modem addons and changed ethernet from being an addon to a standard feature. I belive it also added component video support though i'm not sure on that (I know when i tried a component cable in an old fat PS2 it didn't work)

Re:Lack of GBA slot easily solved (and improved on

[BlueCollarCamel]

Yeah, can't wait to pay for my Advance games again!

What About Rumble?

[cybersquid]

No mention of built-in rumble that I can see.
No GBA, no can use rumble pak. :-(
Tactile feedback is good. Sony recently learnt this lesson the hard way.

Re:What About Rumble?

[Anonymous Coward]

hey look you guys, it's the one guy on the entire planet who used and liked rumble on the ds! lets all point and laugh

you're a twat, and so is the idiot who modded you up. sony learnt their lesson about removing it from a console where practically every game from the previous generation used the feature that came standard with every console. nintendo have removed the slot that allowed you to optionally purchase a rumble pack, which worked in about 8 games, and added very little to the experience while draining battery life. let me reiterate, you're a melodramatic twat and absolutely NOONE (except maybe yourself) will miss rumble on the dsi

OMG! Ponies!

[Neko-kun]

I think I speak for a good majority of DS lite owners when I say that I will not be picking one of these up until Nintendo releases the Pink version.

(Seriously, best theft deterrent I've ever had)

Re:OMG! Ponies!

[thepotoo]

Grab a can of spray paint and put a cool design on it yourself. Works for my laptop, and having a black and silver Tux on the case is cooler (IMHO) than having a pink case.

Re:OMG! Ponies!

[Krater76]

(Seriously, best theft deterrent I've ever had)

Until you have a run-in with a 13-year-old girl who's a kleptomaniac.

Re:OMG! Ponies!

[neumayr]

Cooler, maybe. Not that much of a theft deterrent though..

Re:OMG! Ponies!

[Anonymous Coward]

I just paint goatse on all my handheld devices. None have been stolen yet!

Re:OMG! Ponies!

[Neko-kun]

Luckly, those tend to not exist in Universities...

DS Lite and R4

[Is0m0rph]

Pass, my DS Lite and R4 card are perfect as is.

WIFI Upgrade?

[cybersquid]

I hope wifi support has been improved.
The DS & Lite only do WEP; no TKIP or other modern security protocols are currently supported.

Third Platform

[manekineko2]

What really strikes me as odd about the DSi is Nintendo's announcement that this will constitute a "Third Platform", not replacing the DS Lite but complementing it. How many markets are there for dual screen handhelds with one touchscreen by Nintendo? Especially since the DSi appears to be such an incremental upgrade over the DS Lite.

Source:
Engadget

Re:Third Platform

[Chaos Incarnate]

Because we saw how well that worked out for the old platform last time...

Re:Third Platform

[KDR_11k]

It adds productivity functions and seems aimed at the market looking more for a PDA with good games.

Re:Third Platform

[David Nabbit]

What really strikes me as odd about the DSi is Nintendo's announcement that this will constitute a "Third Platform", not replacing the DS Lite but complementing it.

Nintendo said the same thing about the DS not replacing the GBA when it was released.

Re:Third Platform

[OK PC]

They said the same thing about the DS when that came out. It was meant to be the "third pillar" along with the GBA and the GameCube.
I don't see a new version of the GBA being released as everyone moved onto the DS.
Expect the same, the DS will eventually vanish which is a shame because the GBA slot was quite useful

b-only APs at fire sale prices

[tepples]

Still no WPA. It's just embarrassing now.

I seem to remember we discussed this in the last story about DSi. We ended up reaching a consensus that not everyone needs WPA, and people who do should buy a second AP for Nintendo WFC. Now that 802.11g and pre-n are common, you can find b-only APs at fire sale prices. Turn on 26-digit WEP and MAC whitelisting, turn off the AP when you turn off the DS, and you should be safe.

Re:b-only APs at fire sale prices

[Morkano]

Or, you know, they could just add WPA support.

Re:b-only APs at fire sale prices

[Dutch Gun]

We ended up reaching a consensus that not everyone needs WPA, and people who do should buy a second AP for Nintendo WFC.

"Consensus"? On Slashdot? [citation needed]

Since I can only speak for myself: WEP is essentially a lock on a screen door at this point - it only keeps out those who make no effort to circumvent it. As it is, my wireless network stays as secure as I can make it with WPA security, and my DS stays disconnected. I have no interest in buying a redundant piece of hardware from Nintendo.

Re:b-only APs at fire sale prices

[michaelhood]

If that WEP AP is connected to the rest of your LAN, an attacker could likely (there are variables) use ARP spoofing to compromise the rest of your network while you're playing Mario.

Re:b-only APs at fire sale prices

[Sancho]

The coffee shop down the street from where I work uses WPA to protect its wireless so that only customers can access it. I wonder if they'll mind plugging in this second access point so I can use my DSi.

Re:b-only APs at fire sale prices

[Anonymous Coward]

"Consensus"? On Slashdot? [citation needed]

I guess the only consensus we ever had was that SCO was full of crap. I think even Darl McBride knew they didn't have a case. (then again, he's a mormon, so he obviously can believe the weirdest bullshit)

Re:b-only APs at fire sale prices

[tepples]

Or, you know, they could just add WPA support.

For new games only, more than likely. The Wi-Fi driver in a DS game is on the Game Card, not in the firmware.

Re:b-only APs at fire sale prices

[Anonymous Coward]

WEP is essentially a lock on a screen door at this point - it only keeps out those who make no effort to circumvent it.

WEPs still a little hassle to break. Assuming a decent password, you either need to use packet injection which is a hassle or you need a significant amount of data (a few days of heavy use). I'd say WEP is more like the standard KwikSet locks most people have on their doors, which are trivial to drill, easy to bump and not hard to pick. I have those and the thieves just kicked the door down.

Re:b-only APs at fire sale prices

[Trogre]

...buy a second AP?

You're kidding, right? Though I am impressed by this new level of Nintendo fanboyism, even for /.

New Nintendo DSi Announced

[Skythe]

You mean they're bringing out another Nintendo DSi?!

Get a Pandora

[tepples]

Otherwise *gulp* I'll have to start developing for the iPhone.

The iPhone is even worse. Even the cheapest model (iPod Touch 8 GB) is $229, more expensive than a DS Lite + M3 Real. And there's as much anti-jailbreak cat-and-mouse on an iPhone as there ever was on a PSP. I'd recommend getting in on the next round of Pandora preorders.

I can relate to that...

[Tetsujin]

When I do play GBA games it's usually on a Game Boy of some kind - most often the Micro. It's more portable than the DS which is real handy sometimes. Plus I think it's just an all-around better experience than booting up a GBA game on the DS, not using the full screen or the full set of controls... Really, once I got a decent collection of DS games going, I found I'd rather play those on the DS.

But even if it was under-utilized, I liked the potential for the GBA slot as hardware expansion. Guitar Hero is a good example.

In terms of homebrew, I'm happy enough if I can use my R4DS... But I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo arranged for that to not work on the new system...

Just like the GBA Micro

[Vandil X]

Agreed.

I still have the original model NDS, as I saw the Lite as not compelling enough to "upgrade". The loss of the GBA slot in the DSi is pretty much a deal killer for me.

When the GBA Micro came out, I avoided getting one because I still have quite a library of Gameboy (Mono, Super, & Color) games that I still play form time to time. My GBA SP is still in my arsenal.

Re:Just like the GBA Micro

[bunuel]

The GBA Micro is actually really cool, just because it's actually pocket-sized, about the size of a small cell phone. I agree, though, I wouldn't want to sell my SP.

Re:Lack of GBA slot easily solved (and improved on

[despisethesun]

That would be awesome if I didn't have to pay for games I already own yet again.

Any DRM?

[spookymonster]

I'm going to Japan this December. If I pick one of these up and bring 'em back to the US, will I be able to play my current DS/GBA games on it, or is there some sort of 'region' DRM restriction?

Re:Any DRM?

[Yvan256]

If it's anything like Nintendo's previous portable systems, there is no region lock. There should also be language settings in it to switch it to english.

FYI, I have a DS Lite bought in Canada (labeled C/USG-USA) but it has English, Deutsch, Français, Español, Italiano and Japanese language settings.

Re:Any DRM?

[AragornSonOfArathorn]

Maybe bring a few of your American DS carts and see if they'll let you try them in the store prior to purchase?

Re:Any DRM?

[mockidol]

"I'm going to Japan this December. If I pick one of these up and bring 'em back to the US, will I be able to play my current DS/GBA games on it, or is there some sort of 'region' DRM restriction?" It has no GBA slot so no, you will not be able to play GBA games.

Re:Any DRM?

[dbIII]

I've got a Japanese DS which has run cartridges from Australia, Korea and the USA. Region locking is a Hollywood inspired DVD thing and doesn't happen on the DS or any other game system I can think of.

Re:Any DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's VERY likely that they changed their DRM mechanism. Also, there IS additional system RAM as the browser now comes with it, so I wonder if the DSi ONLY games are expected to use ALL available system RAM or just to make use of the camera in some fashion. (There 2 cameras BTW a 3M and the .3M IIRC.)

Also hoping for a more powerful ARM9, which would make the DSi a definite buy for me.

As to supported languages AFAIK EVERY DS sold ANYWHERE supports ALL supported languages EXCEPTING Chinese which is ONLY available on the iQue. The iQue is the DS made for China, and is made by another company because of Chinese foreign ownership laws, and the ONLY difference between the iQue and the rest of the DS Lites is a slightly larger firmware to accomodate all of the Chinese pictographs, although I am uncertain if it just supports simplied or simplified/traditional Chinese.

Many multi-language DS games will just default to the language set in the DS firmware, as IIRC I've only ever run across one fairly old game that asked for language preference.

I'll miss the GBA slot for GBA gaming, but IF I do pick up a DSi, I'll also keep my old lite for playing gba games as it's the only GBA capable system that I have with a backlight.

Re:Any DRM?

[Ragnarok Crono]

Actually, region lock for the DSi is based off of the game type. Some bigwig (forgot who) said that DSi games would be region-locked, but DS games were not added to the category.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[fbjon]

One one hand, it's just cashing in. But on the other hand, this way those who actually want to play older games can do so on a newer device, without giving increased size and price of the device for everyone.

Re:Lack of GBA slot easily solved (and improved on

[sjonke]

Yes, but if the price is low, I don't think too many would complain. For one thing you are gaining greater portability (no need to carry the cartridges). I don't have a huge collection of GBA games, though. You could always sell the carts and buy the downloads, though.

the first thing i thought of..

[apodyopsis]

the first thing i thought of...

...is I could yank the SD out of my DSLR and view the pics easily, one screen for a photo album and the other for a view of the selected photo. but thats just me... a SD slot adds a whole new range of options to this toy. now, is there a decent SDK?

Re:the first thing i thought of..

[radish]

Why? The screen on most DSLRs is way better than that on the DS (and, by extension, I assume the DSi). I guess there's a little utility to having the second screen for a thumbnail view, but when I'm looking at pics on site I'm usually interested in checking exposure, focus, etc and so a good screen is essential.

Re:the first thing i thought of..

[Erwos]

I would think most people taking photos on their DSLRs would be using RAW, which I doubt the DSi will be supporting.

But, IMHO, most modern digital cameras have pretty reasonable viewing modes now. I would be shocked if this ever became a widespread use of the DSi.

Re:the first thing i thought of..

[dbIII]

I already do that with my DS and compact flash cards from my camera. The homebrew program Moonshell has a decent image viewer. It requires two things - a small file on the card that doesn't upset the camera and an adapter that can run the media on the DS. The thing I use, the GBA movie player, was dirt cheap becuase you can't run any pirated games on the thing but it does run a pile of homebrew software.

With an updated DS that actually has a native SD slot we'd need the homebrew software to know where it is in memory to load files - probably not a major change since there is already a libfat for reading SD cards via other devices.

As for software development, check out the links from the dslinux.org website and you'll find cross compiler toolchains and even links to tutorials.

Built-in browser?

[Yvan256]

Is it still Opera? Is it the same version as the DS cart + GBA RAM cart? And since Opera needed a GBA RAM cart, does this means the DSi has more internal memory and will this extra memory be accessible to games or only the built-in browser to prevent companies to make "DSi-only" games, cutting off regular DS/DS Lite owners?

Re:Built-in browser?

[Erwos]

Reggie claimed it was faster on the DSi. That would be indicative that the hardware may have changed - possibly a higher-clocked version of the same CPU, maybe some more RAM.

As for DSi-only games, I don't see any reason for Nintendo to care about those. It's like claiming that making DS games "cut off" GBA owners. Having DSi-only games would provide more impetus for consumers to buy the DSi - making Nintendo more money. They want you to keep buying hardware!

Re:Built-in browser?

[Yvan256]

Opera running faster on the DSi would make sense if the extra RAM doesn't have to go through the GBA bus.

As for DSi-only games, Nintendo would probably have renamed the system completely IMO. Though they did do that once with the Gameboy Color. It was still pretty close to the regular Gameboy hardware but with a higher clock speed, extra RAM (if I recall correctly), color (duh), etc.

And of course you're right that it would sell more units. But if the DSi is better than the DS than I hope it's still close enough to the DS that companies could make one cart for both DS and DSi, with the game doing extra things when ran on a DSi instead of a DS (more effects on screen, more polygons, better music, etc), just like some companies did carts that ran on both GB and GBC.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[AragornSonOfArathorn]

One thing I like about the Wii's Virtual Console is that N64 games look better. They run at twice the resolution (640x480 instead of the N64's 320x240). They still look dated, of course, but the graphics are cleaner. I've been having a lot of fun with Super Mario 64 on my Wii.

"On-The-Go" DS vs "At-Home" DS

[Vandil X]

I think Nintendo is marketing the DSi as the "On-The-Go" DS that you don't monkey with peripherals, just throw it in your manpurse/laptop bag/purse and off you go, ready to whip it out for light gaming and to social network with your friends, etc., and replace your mp3 player and cell phone camera.

The Lite & original DS will be the "At-Home" DS where you can attach the menagerie of peripherals and such, and play with your huge library of DS and GBA games handy.

Isn't compatible with your lawn, then?

[nobodyman]

Out of curiosity, are you the same guy that was complaining when they bogged down your monochrome gameboy with all those pesky colors ?

It loses the GBA port but also increases screen size, decreases weight, and becomes more slim, and adds video chat. Seems kinda cool to me.

And it's not like the DSLite is going away anytime soon. You could still buy the DSFat long after the lite was released.

New cars and web browsers

[AlpineR]

It doesn't take much extra effort for the automakers to put out a new model each year. They mostly change cosmetic things: bumpers, headlights, grills, fenders, dashboards. The guts of the car are the same until they change the platform, every five years or so. The yearly model thing is pretty much entirely for the psychological effect on buyers. It makes you feel like you're getting something special that nobody else has yet, or it makes you feel that your mechanically-fine vehicle is out of date and you should get a new one.

I actually dislike a lot of the cosmetic changes that they make. When a totally new car is designed it has an overall motif. A couple years later, just to be different, they slap on fenders and spoilers that don't really go with the underlying design.

The big thing I like in the new Nintendo DSi is the built-in web browser. I so often wish I could look something up on my DS while watching TV rather than getting up and going over to my desktop. To continue the car analogy, adding the web browser is like adding HD radio to a car. It doesn't make the old model less useful and it's not worth much expense to add myself, but it'd be a nice feature to have.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[cowscows]

Just a counterpoint, you can put a Gamecube disc into the Wii and it'll play just fine. Try doing that with any other Nintendo living room console. Any backwards compatibility at all in your living room is new for Nintendo.

All that being said, I don't think the DSi not playing GBA games is that huge of a deal for the large majority of the market. It's not aimed at replacing GBA's, it's aimed at replacing DS's, which it's mostly backwards compatible with.

That would fit Nintendo's paranoid delusions

[Anonymous Coward]

After all, the reason they dumped the GBA cart is because that's the slot that Flash-ram carts (with a wraparound ribbon if you are playing a DS title) use for their interface. The decision this time was to neuter yet another system just like they neutered the N64 and Gamecube for fear of "piracy."

Every time Big N does this to try to block off a relatively MINOR section of the audience (and one that likely isn't spending big $$$ on games anyways), they just hurt the product and their own bottom line. I don't get why they have such a hard time understanding this.

Re:That would fit Nintendo's paranoid delusions

[lysergic.acid]

while i don't have much experience with Nintendo products, Sony has taken a similar stance with the PSP. they're constantly releasing new PSP firmwares which you need to upgrade to in order to play new games. the firmware updates usually don't add any new features or convey benefits of any kind to the user. where the custom firmware (CFW) released by homebrew developers actually add value to the PSP.

case in point:

• run ISO/CSO images directly off of memory stick (no load times, and no bulky UMDs to carry).
• supports plugins that allow users to listen to their own music while playing games.
• allow PSP owners to convert their own PSX games into POPS files, instead of having to re-purchase their games from the PSN.
• run shell applications and play ISO/CSOs directly off of your hard drive via USB.
• stream videos from your computer over wi-fi (PiMPStreamer).
• use your PSP as an ebook reader (Bookr).
• use your PSP as a universal remote.
• run all games at 333 MHz.
• use a better audio player than the PSP's integrated audio player.
• run all kinds of emulators.
• develop your own homebrew apps on your PSP.
• make phone calls with the PSP fat (Furikup) no thanks to Sony.

at least Nintendo has tried to match homebrew features so that users wouldn't need to turn to homebrew & flash RAM carts. Sony's tactic is to simply break forward-compatibility and force users to upgrade to new official firmware which don't add any value to the user's system.

Sony's wasted efforts trying to combat piracy through attacks on homebrew could have been better directed towards improving the PSP's software and addressing user complaints. they could have added playlist support and a media browser to the audio player, or added support for more video codecs; heck, the PSP's built-in web browser could have been greatly enhanced with a memory paging system that would take advantage of my 4 GB memory stick for storing swap files.

but instead Sony allows the PSP's amazing hardware to continue to go underutilized. i guess trying to "prevent piracy" is more important than realizing the platform's full potential. it doesn't take an genius economist to see the opportunity cost of Sony's anti-homebrew efforts.

Re:That would fit Nintendo's paranoid delusions

[KDR_11k]

I doubt that. There's too many Lites out there anyway. This article claims that the DSi is designed to attract those who don't care about videogames (yet) and those people aren't likely to have any GBA games anyway so Nintendo is saving space and money by removing the connector (it already seemed pretty out of place on the Lite with the carts sticking out).

Nintendo dropped GB/GBC support from the GB Micro, this is the third DS iteration and again the backwards compatibility is getting dropped.

Re:That would fit Nintendo's paranoid delusions

[Chrondeath]

After all, the reason they dumped the GBA cart is because that's the slot that Flash-ram carts (with a wraparound ribbon if you are playing a DS title) use for their interface.

That might have made sense if this decision had come before the slot-1 flash cards came out, but what good does it do them to drop the GBA slot when the best flash cards now use the DS cartridge slot?

Re:That would fit Nintendo's paranoid delusions

[snuf23]

Newer flash cards like the R4 only use the DS cart slot. They don't plug anything into the GBA port.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[pizzach]

I wonder if purchases from the virtual console will also work on the DS? I mean, if they are changing Wii points to Nintendo points, we can expect an eventual class action suit, right?

No analog input

[Dan Posluns]

Still no analog input device?

Seriously, as a former DS developer, that's one of the things that drives you crazy about making 3D games for that platform.

Re:No analog input

[Anonymous Coward]

You're kidding right???

You developed for it, but some how you missed that HUGE ANALOG input right in the middle of the screen. Oh wait it IS the screen!!


Guess I know why it says "former" developer. ;-)

More memory for TSRs

[Vandil X]

I've read nothing official, but I would assume there is more on-board memory in the DSi.

Not only would this memory serve as browser storage, but also more memory for the new processes running in the background for all the new features, both passive and active.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[uberjoe]

Presumably this is what the "Nintendo Store" is for. Instead of letting you play your old cartridges, Nintendo will charge you $5 or $10 and let you download them.

So I have to pay for them again? I'd love to play my old NES and SNES games on the go, but I already paid full price for them 10 and 20 years ago.

I should be able to show them my old cartridges and get a downloadable version for free. It's almost enough to drive one to piracy. . .

Re:Lack of GBA slot easily solved (and improved on

[AsnFkr]

You forgot Virtual Boy. Get the red displaying on one screen, the black on the other...hold the system against your nose and you'd be good to go.

Your kidding right?

[gmezero]

Nintendo has a solid release formula that they have followed for 30 years. The only variation has been the introduction of the DS as an experimental platform. It ended up being so successful that it really demanded they drop the GBA mid life cycle. I keep a running review of release dates here over on the Game Zero magazine site.

That settles it then.

[GameboyRMH]

I'm not getting one. I thought of trading off backwards compatibility for new features (since I have a GBA) but anything that badly broken and DRM-ridden isn't worth buying.

- Original DS owner whose hands are too big for the Lite, and saw no compelling reasons to upgrade to that either.

That only works for WEP

[Nick Ives]

You may be mistaken. The simple cracks are for WEP, WPA and WPA2 are secure unless you use a simple passphrase for your PSK.

It's possible guess this guy was using a WEP cracker in combination with a dictionary attack for WPA/WPA2, but that's what you get for using a weak password!

Re:That only works for WEP

[Sancho]

Simple passwords? Heh. There are rainbow tables for common SSIDs plus all passphrases up to 12 characters. That means that your password of "n-#$-sdkj3[[" (which most people would not consider weak or simple) is cracked just as easily as your passphrase "rodentsoup11"

Re:That only works for WEP

[apparently]

Simple passwords? Heh. There are rainbow tables for common SSIDs plus all passphrases up to 12 characters. That means that your password of "n-#$-sdkj3[[" (which most people would not consider weak or simple) is cracked just as easily as your passphrase "rodentsoup11"

Wow, that sounds really effective against a 64-bit passphrase that only needs to be entered once per connecting device. What ever will I do?!?!?!?

Re:That only works for WEP

[Sancho]

64-bits is 8 bytes. That's four characters shorter than the passwords I used as examples.

Re:That only works for WEP

[Anonymous Coward]

pwned.

Animal Crossing + Combat evolved

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally think that while animal crossing is kind of a cool little game, if you could go outside of the town and experience some "combat evolved" would really sell the game. I used to get a chuckle out of conkers battling teddys. So how bout, "Animal crossing, Combat evolved" this is one animal you don't want to cross.

Can it help my Pokemon Problem?

[jameskojiro]

Can I store all those extra pokemon on my SD card? I have a billion of the damned things and they keep breeding at an increasing rate.

If I could offload some of them to my SD card and then burn it up in Mount Doom or Mordor or wherever, the world would be a better place!

sweet

[thetoadwarrior]

I'll be buying this fo' sho'.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[Shikaku]

My question is do you need a Wii for this? I'm guessing yes.

Re:Lack of GBA slot easily solved (and improved on

[Tatsh]

Would be cool. Have an SD card slot you can replace and play whichever games you want.

As for DS games, they can be played via the M3 and R4. I'm willing to bet Nintendo put some new tech in this version to prevent those devices from working.

Hmm..

[slummy]

I wonder if my R4 Revolution Homebrew Card will still work with this.. I waited over a month to get it delivered from canada.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[lysergic.acid]

i have the same issue with the PSP's PopStation. it's such a money grab it's not even funny.

firstly, they advertise the PSP as allowing you to play PSX games on the go--a huge selling point for many people. but then once people purchase the PSP they find out that they can't connect to the PSN or Playstation Store without a PS3, despite the fact that the PSP has wi-fi support and a built-in browser. this isn't a technical obstacle--it's a deliberate sales strategy to get PSP owners to purchase another $600 system if they want to use one of the core features of the their new handheld.

now, many PSP owners were also Playstation owners, and many still have their PSX games from years ago. technically, these discs can be ripped and converted to POPS files to be played on the PSP. but Sony has intentionally crippled the PSP's firmware to prevent the system from loading up unsigned games from the memory stick. so unless you run CFW you have to re-purchase your entire PSX library, most of which probably won't even be available on the PSN--which your PSP doesn't have direct access to anyway.

so it's not surprising that many PSP owners find it simpler to just run CFW and download pre-converted POPS conversions. the funny thing is, Sony could have prevented all of this had they not been so greedily anti-consumer. they could have just released an official PSX disc ripper/converter so PSP owners can easily put their own PSX games on their PSP without needing CFW.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[KDingo]

Who knows, Nintendo knows what games you own if you've used nintendo.com to register games (GBA/GC and up, I think). If they re-release a GBA game for the DSi, and they see you've registered the game, perhaps they'll let you download it for free. Here's hoping.

Go to another coffee shop

[tepples]

The coffee shop down the street

Buy your coffee at McDonald's. I seem to remember reading that 1. McD's Wi-Fi partner Wayport signed an agreement with Nintendo to provide Nintendo WFC access, and 2. McD's coffee isn't as unbearably hot as it used to be.

Games that rely on option paks

[tepples]

Nintendo dropped GB/GBC support from the GB Micro

No authentic GBA games relied on GB/GBC support. But in this case, we have DS games carrying the Official Nintendo Seal that rely on option paks, such as Guitar Hero, Nintendo DS Browser (powered by Opera), Arkanoid, and that face training game from Japan. Now Opera just uses more RAM, and Nintendo could solder RAM where SLOT-2 was to make up for it. But the other three option paks are input devices.

Re:Games that rely on option paks

[bubblejet]

The DSi will have a web browser built in, so it shouldn't matter whether the old opera browser works or doesn't.

Re:Games that rely on option paks

[tepples]

The DSi will have a web browser built in, so it shouldn't matter whether the old opera browser works or doesn't.

Will it also have a spinner for Arkanoid and a set of fret buttons for Guitar Hero? I didn't see those in the photos.

Re:Games that rely on option paks

[KDR_11k]

The paddle you can use for Arkanoid and Space Invaders Extreme wasn't sold outside of Japan. Guitar Hero would be a problem but again, the DSi is for people who don't care about games and one game being unplayable won't be that big of a deal.

No

[Anonymous Coward]

No, let's not buy anything from McDonalds, their food is a disgrace to humans, and cows alike.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony sucks about as bad as Apple when it comes to "letting" the consumers do anything.

And who the hell bought a PSP? That thing is crap.

Meh

[MerlTurkin]

I couldn't care less. The DS is awesome without the added bullshit.

Re:Backwards Compatibility for Money

[lysergic.acid]

actually, i wouldn't be so frustrated with Sony's tactic if the PSP were in fact crap. but the hardware itself is an amazing piece of engineering with great potential. it's just Sony's incompetent mismanagement of the platform that has crippled the system.

it doesn't matter how great a piece of hardware is if there isn't matching software to take advantage of it. and Sony has gone the extra step of using software to cripple a great piece of hardware. if it weren't for homebrew and CFW, the PSP would probably have remained crap to this day.

i can play PSX games, run emulators, listen to music, watch videos, read e-books, surf the web, etc. all on the go. but that's only because i don't use my PSP the way that Sony wants people to use it. still, there isn't a portable entertainment device out there that can do all this. so until the Pandora comes out, i'll have to keep putting up with Sony's BS.

To be fair

[Chuck Chunder]

The shitty lenses on phones etc typically don't justify more pixels, they seem to be there to look good on the box.

If they aren't trying to cram as many pixels as possible onto the sensor (or whatever it is) perhaps it can instead be targeted at producing a decent image, especially in lower light conditions, rather than a big one.

I live in hope.

DS Lite owns all.

[bronney]

The reason why I bought my NDS was right before a 6x plane ride to and fro US, Canada, and Hong Kong. And the DS was the only system that lasts 10+ hours on the dim level.

I had such a great time turning on wifi during take off and landing with other geeks who also happen to have bomberman on the plane (did I say bomb?).

I won't be getting the DSi simply because it's not really that different from the NDS. But I want to thank nintendo anyway, for bringing us the DS Lite. What a great system. It's been already 2 years and I haven't touch it for at least a year. But it's one of those gadget that I keep next to the front door.

What does Activision think of this?

[oloron]

I cant think of a better way to slap a company in the face than to take away its newly discovered 'cash-cow', the guitar hero series has a lot of potential on the DS, its one of the few games I have purchased, seeing as I have a slot-1 flash cart, i can test games before i buy and avoid disappointing purchases.what Nintendo has done here is shoot Activision straight through the heart for this series... I mean, if i was stupid enough to 'upgrade' i would not be able to buy new guitar hero games... but I bet my Cyclo-DS will still work... hmm can someone tell me what the ??? before the 'Profit!!' would be in this case? I see no benefit other than an attack on piracy, that already looks like it wont work :\

Thank Nintendo!

[Anonymous Coward]

That 0.3 megapixel camera will be great in determining whether it's day or night... not much else it's good for

Identify older releases by their SHA-1

[tepples]

They cannot improve encryption/security without breaking compatibility with older DS software.

Such a new firmware would whitelist the SHA-1 values of the older DS software. Pocket Heaven lists fewer than 3,000 DS releases so far, and the SHA-1 values of those releases wouldn't take more than 30 KiB of the firmware.

Did I read that correctly? A 0.3 megapixel camera?

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly though, This is 2008 not 2003. If you're going to put a digital camera on a device it should at the VERY LEAST be 2MP these days, otherwise it just seems like a waste to me.

Re:Lack of GBA slot easily solved (and improved on

[Anonymous Coward]

imo, a virtual portable feature is one of the best features of this new ds, and probably the main reason I'll buy it, depending on what games they have available. I love many of my old gbc games that don't work anymore, and now I'll have a chance to play them again.

Legitimate reason to hack it.

[Anonymous Coward]

With this move Nintendo just gave a legitimate reason to hack it. According to Dutch (European?) law it is allowed to remove restrictions that allow you to use content that you bought in other countries.

That is why DVD vendors just include a paper explaining how to switch the region code.

Home-brew will be possible very soon.

I meant 64-character passphrase

[apparently]

you were saying?