Apple Announces New MacBook, Pro, Air

Steve Jobs just got through announcing new MacBook lines in Cupertino. The MacBook, the Pro, and the Air all got revved. The old line of plastic-body MacBooks drops in price by $100, to $999. The new MacBooks have a metal body and multi-touch trackpad, just like the new Pros. The Pro features two NVidia graphics chips. Quoting Jobs: "With the 9400M, you get 5 hours of battery life, with the 9600M GT you get four hours of battery life. You choose." In summary: "We're building both [MacBook and Pro] in a whole new way. From a slab of aluminum to a notebook. New graphics. New trackpad, the best we've ever built. And LED-backlit displays that are far brighter, instant on, far more environmentally responsible." They are shipping today and should be in stores tomorrow. Oh, and one more thing: Steve's blood pressure is 110/70.

Comments

Refurb Price Drops!

[0100010001010011]

Woot. I've been looking to get an upgrade to my MBP (1st gen). This means all the 'old' stock is going to get dropped into the refurb store or sold cheaply through other channels.

Re:Refurb Price Drops!

[0100010001010011]

Yesterday a refurb (current generation) 15.4" MBP was $1699 (Discounted from $1999). Right now it's at $1349.

Multitouch, matte screen, etc.

Store.apple.com.
Refurbed Macs (Lower left)
Scroll down.

Re:Refurb Price Drops!

[aliquis]

I doubt their glossy one is anything different and better but still people do have different opinions in this question. Quite a few people actually like glossy screens, some don't.

I have a glossy one (Two generations old MBP?), I have no problems whatsoever with it.

I think it's a much bigger deal that THEY KEYBOARD REST AGAINST YOUR SCREEN. Wtf is up with that? How is that a good design decision? My screen gots "shades" of some of the keys on it. Yeah, excellent!! How very well though off!

And then I very rarely bring the notebook anywhere so you can imagine how it would be if it traveled around closed a lot.

Other issues is obviously TN-panel, low resolution, slow TN-panel on top of that.

Re:Refurb Price Drops!

[lmnfrs]

For reference store.apple.com is terrible. This is likely a rare case, but it happened.

Objective: I ordered a refurbished iPod from store.apple.com but it wouldn't charge via my computer or the wall adapter. I called their tech support, but they wouldn't help me at first because my warranty had expired. Eventually they decided the wall adapter was the culprit, and sent a replacement. It didn't work either. I had to return the iPod.

Subjective: My "refurbished" iPod didn't work at all. I was sure it was the iPod because it wouldn't charge via the firewire connector in my PC or the wall adapter. I called tech support, but the "genius" on the other end told me my warranty expired two months ago. How the hell did a one year warranty expire 1.5 months _before_ I made the purchase? Eventually, said "genius" claimed the iPod was not broken, the wall adapter was. The fact that the firewire port didn't charge the iPod either was because it was a PC's firewire port. Sometimes PC's firewire ports are only 4 wires instead of 6. I informed the moron that I had built the PC myself, it was a front panel port connected with a wiring harness, and it did in fact have 6 wires.
"It's probably the wall adapter, we'll send you a new one."
...
After waiting a week the new adapter came and it didn't charge the iPod. I called to complain, but my warranty had expired. I was forced to return the iPod, but they wouldn't tell me how I could ship the broken, never refurbished (this is why the serial number lead to an iPod with an expired warranty; it was returned as broken and they simply threw it in a pile of refurbished iPods and sold it to me), piece of junk.
They shipped me a completely broken piece of hardware and I had to make several calls to DHL to figure out how to return it.

It just works.

Re:Refurb Price Drops!

[Hes Nikke]

And i got a refurb MacBook this spring (2.2 Ghz C2D, 4 GB RAM, 120 GB HD and 2 and a half years of AppleCare - i'll sell it to you for $1000 so i can get a new one!) and haven't had a single issue.

I'll see your random antictdote and raise you AppleCare!

First post?

[line-bundle]

It's amazing how AAPL stock drops after an announcement.

Buy on rumor. sell on fact.

Re:First post?

[anaesthetica]

If I had the money, I would have a standing short on every day that Apple has a conference. There's always a speculative run-up in the price and a drop when the actual announcement is made.

Re:First post?

[norminator]

I am not an economist (IANAE), but shouldn't that be sell on rumor (when it's high), and buy on fact (when it's low)?

Re:First post?

[HansF]

It's called short selling. Check wikipedia

Re:First post?

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Yes, I was going to post that ... but to add a little more, it is the difference between "investing", and "speculating." Short selling is "speculating" ... buying low is "investing."

Have you ever heard someone call Warren Buffet a speculator?

He's an investor.

Re:First post?

[mo]

Short sales can be used in reliable investing strategies. For example, say you purchased the S&P 500 index for a long-term investment, but you feel that the auto manufacturers are a bad play for the next few years. You can short an equivalent amount of auto stocks to effectively remove that component from your S&P holdings.

Re:First post?

[addaon]

You don't need a course for this, just to do some reading. The biggest thing to understand is that the things you buy in the market (whether they're shares of stock, or the short sale of stock, or options or other derivatives) are just contracts that reflect a belief. That is, a standard stock purchase is buying a contract that will give you a profit if your belief (that the company's value will increase over the time period you hold the contract) holds. A short sale is just buying a contract that will give you a profit if your opposing belief (that the company's value will decrease) holds. The mechanics of the contract are interesting (a short sale is a sale of stock you borrow for the purpose of selling; to close the contract you must return the stock by purchasing it at then-current prices), but are merely an instantiation of your goal. Once you start thinking this way, derivatives and ETFs and all those other things make lots of sense. Just state your belief -- "i think that fourteen days from now AAPL's stock price will have decreased by more than 5% but less than 10%" -- and then figure out what mechanism exists (and there's almost always something, these days) that reflects exactly that intention. Now, before you start buying based on this understanding, you need to start thinking about confidence intervals and such, but it's a major start.

Glossy only?

[VValdo]

From what I've been reading on the liveblogs, these new notebooks are available in glossy screens only, even for the MBP. If that's the case, I think a lot of people will be pretty upset.

W

Re:Glossy only?

[VValdo]

Answering my own query:

11:01AM Q: Concern about the glossy screens. Are you going to offer another option?
A: Steve: We're going all glass -- we won't offer another version. Phil: You offset the reflection by the brightness, and consumers love it. One of the great things about a notebook is you can turn it however you want!

Uh, yeah. Great. Guess I'm keeping my matte for a while.

W

Re:Glossy only?

[SilentChris]

Not really. Apple's marketshare has switched from Mr. Graphic Designer to Joe Collegestudent. Mr. Graphic Designer wants older matte screens because they supposedly reproduce colors better (the same reason they held onto CRTs well after LCDs debuted). Joe Collegestudent wants "popping" colors for photos, deeper blacks, etc. In other words, they want their computers to be modeled after consumer devices like LCD TVs -- they could care less about color reproduction.

Me, personally, I like the glossy screens. My laptop purchases are purely for home use where I look at photos, watch movies and play games. I think most of Apple's buyers are similar in their interests now.

If you want a matte screen, there's plenty of other laptops choose from. Apple wouldn't be selling new laptops with glossy screens if the old ones weren't selling reasonably well.

Re:Glossy only?

[falcon5768]

be ready though, even Dell is dropping their matte options. Pretty soon none of the laptops will have it.

Re:Glossy only?

[pz]

Mr. Graphic Designer wants older matte screens because they supposedly reproduce colors better (the same reason they held onto CRTs well after LCDs debuted).

I'm Mr. Dabbles in Graphic Design Person. You need to remove the "supposedly" in your statement above, especially when it comes to CRTs vs LCDs. High end LCDs are almost as good as decent CRTs, mostly because LCDs significantly change color with viewing angle. When you're worried about graphic design or photography, getting the color right is really important, and even slight color shifts are unacceptable.

I'm also Mr. Professional Visual Neuroscientist Who Does Some Colorimetric Work. No serious colorimetric work is yet being done with LCDs for the very same reason: a green dot needs to be exactly the same green whether it's presented in the middle of the screen or at the edge. With CRTs that's the case. With LCDs, assuming the viewing position is the same, the viewing angle changes slightly between those two screen locations, and the color is altered.

I had cause to use a glossy screen laptop recently. Couldn't wait to get rid of it, as I was distracted by my own reflection, or a reflection of the things behind me, or the lights, or whatever else was at the right (or wrong?) angle. Until LCD screens get some really good antiglare coating, matte is the way to go.

Re:Glossy only?

[Utini420]

Why?
I'm not trolling, honest question. Why are so many manufacturers going to glossy LCDs? Cheaper to build, what? 'Cause every end user I support hates the things. Except one, and he always likes to be different anyway.

What benefit, real or imagined, do hardware makers think/believe/want us to believe, is to be had from glossy screens?

Re:Glossy only?

[SilentChris]

Simple question: do you think Apple is marketing the new Macbooks for Mr. Joe Collegestudent or Mr. Professional Visual Neuroscientist Who Does Some Colorimetric Work?

Apple spends 9/10 of their time marketing. Always hasl. Mr. Professional Visual Neuroscientist Who Does Some Colorimetric Work arguably won't get the laptop marketed for its Word processing and gaming use.

Re:Glossy only?

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally love my glossy screen and would never again consider a matte option.

For one, glossy screens are easier to clean. With laptops, it's somewhat inevitable that the screen will get fingerprints on it. With a matte screen, you need a specific wipe/spray to clean. My glossy display cleans easily with a damp paper towel. Glossy screens also showcase vibrant colors better than matte screens. This is probably why so many manufacturers are pushing glossy...under the right conditions, stuff just looks better on a glossy screen. But I would bet that Apple is moving to glossy in preparation for laptops where the screen is touch-sensitive (ala iPhone/iPod).

And having used one for the past year, the glare issue is really a red herring. I don't notice it. In fact I find the glossy screens more usable in sunlight conditions since they appear brighter than the matte. I actually find it really hard to believe your statement, "every end user I support hates the things" based on my experience. It's really hard to fathom that anyone who has actually used a glossy display for any serious amount of time wouldn't prefer it to a matte display.

Re:Glossy only?

[Jesus_666]

I'm a university student. I use my MBP in the university for note-taking and work. A glossy screen would make it next to impossible to actually do anything because we have big wall-filling rows of windows everywhere, which have bad enough reflections that I can't see anything but the windows on glossy screens.

It'd be really nice if there was a laptop for people who actually need a mobile computer to work with instead of an oversized portable DVD player. "You can position laptops any way you want" is useless when virtually all positions you can face end up with the reflection of something bright blinding you (and a window on a sunny day is most probably brighter than the LCD backlight).

Re:Glossy only?

[jeremyp]

If it had one of these terrible glossy screens, I would be viewing myself and the brilliantly lit wall behind me instead of slashdot.

Please clarify: you are arguing in favour of glossy screens, right?

Re:Glossy only?

[Fred_A]

FWIW, every user I know hates the glossy display on their laptop as well. Unfortunately there's no choice in the matter. I've never seen *one* who liked it better than a matte one.

Re:Glossy only?

[mattcasters]

Amen! I bought a test-laptop with gloss by accident a few years ago. OK, it was cheap one, but I would never ever do it again.

Re:Glossy only?

[lucas teh geek]

And having used one for the past year, the glare issue is really a red herring. I don't notice it.

well, having used a macbook for the past year, I strongly refute that. The glare is a huge issue. Colours look great... unless theres a light source other than the laptop in the room (and dont even bother trying to use it outside or near a window), then there's glare so you tilt the screen and the colours distort. perhaps thats an issue with the shitty lcds they put in macbooks. the powerbook I had before it had far better viewing angles, whereas the macbook doesnt require much tilting for the colours to change and the contrast between light colours to disappear (for example the grey comment box outlines on slashdot "disappear"). the glossy screen has been the deciding factor for me that when I eventually replace the laptop I was going to buy from the mbp range JUST for the matte screen. and now they've taken away that option :(

Re:Glossy only?

[dangitman]

Apple spends 9/10 of their time marketing.

Yeah right, they only spend 1/10th of their time developing a whole Operating System, designing computers and developing new techniques for manufacturing them, designing iPods and iPhones, running a music store, writing professional and consumer video editing and DVD authoring software.

You, sir, are full of shit. If that were the case, the marketing department would dwarf the rest of Apple. But it doesn't, of course.

Re:Glossy only?

[nine-times]

You've already gotten some answers, but the truth is that a lot of different factors are converging:

• It's become a bit of a fad. Technology isn't immune to fashion, and fashions come in and out of style. There was a period when glossy screens were rare, and therefore some people thought they looked cool. Now everyone is moving towards glossy screens because that's where the demand is, and I wouldn't be surprised if, at some point, there was a move back toward matte.
• Apple has moved toward using glass in their designs, partially for structural/durability reasons, and glass is naturally glossy.
• Another advantage of glass is it's easier to care for and clean without damaging. Glossy things are generally easier to clean, but also with glass, if you do happen to damage it, there's a better chance you can polish it rather than replacing it.
• Because of how matte finishes refract/disperse the light, you can get more vivid colors with higher contrast, giving the appearance of a brighter/sharper image.

The last point is probably the trickiest to understand. If you want an easy-to-imagine analogy, think about trying to look at an image through clear glass vs. translucent frosted glass. It's not exactly right, but hey, it's just an analogy. When you have a matte finish, it scatters the ambient light, which is exactly what keeps it from being "glossy". You don't see a clear reflection of your desk lamp because the light from your desk lamp is being scattered in a bunch of different directions. The matte finish also causes the light from the display itself (the image being displayed) to scatter a bit, too. Because of this, glossy screens can get deeper blacks more vivid colors.

So really there are upsides and downsides.

Re:Glossy only?

[wfolta]

I'd love to figure out if this is simply in the eyes of the beholder, or if there's an environmental factor at work. I do video on a huge matte screen all day long, but when I get home and use my glossy MBP -- gotten when glossy was still just one option -- I notice no glare.

Right now, it's night and I have a ceiling-reflecting lamp on, and I have to twist all around to get the lamp reflection on the screen to notice any glare at all. During the day, I've used my laptop many places, including outdoors, and never had glare/reflections that literally distracted me.

Are glossy-haters working with huge windows directly behind them or something? Is it a matter of perhaps overall lighting and personal depth-of-field? Or concentration/focus patterns? It's puzzling how much of a love-hate thing glossy screens are.

(Now my big-screen TV is definitely glossy, as it is on a wall with windows on two other sides of the room. So you would definitely get some bad glare depending on where you sat.)

Re:Glossy only?

[cayenne8]

"Apple would be selling alot more laptops if their pricing was better. If they were closer in price to the pc laptops people might opt for them. Not everyone wants to drop a grand on a laptop. Sometimes a 500 dollar one will do just fine."

I guess for about the same reason that Porsche doesn't have a car that is in the $25K range, it simply is not the market they are aiming at.

There are plenty of computers/cars out there catering to the lower end market.

Re:No 3g?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have ExpressCard, use it.

Boring

[MarkoNo5]

I really don't care if my macbook pro is made of a single block of aluminium or not. I do however care about non-glossy screens, and not having to lug around a connector for a mini display port. Both of these, however, seem to be a thing of the past. In addition, I think the black border around the screen is ugly as hell.

Re:Boring

[Cobalt Jacket]

I believe the intention is that, in time, everyone will use DisplayPort and it will be moot. Certainly, Apple is not the first manufacturer to head in this direction. The transition has to start somewhere.

Re:But all glossy...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Mini DisplayPort is downsized from the full sized DVI connector. The Mini DisplayPort can drive everything the big DVI can (30-inch displays).

13" MP

[truthsearch]

The new metal 13" macbook is very similar to the pro, just smaller. For a $700 price difference this new model is probably worth it if you don't mind it being a little smaller.

Re:13" MP

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you need Firewire, in which case you're up a creek sans paddle. Typical Apple, a couple steps forward, one step back, one step to the side. Never end up exactly where you want to be.

Re:13" MP

[tulmad]

And with a slower CPU (2.0ghz vs 2.4ghz on the lower model), no secondary GPU 9600M GT, and no expresscard slot.

Re:13" MP

[Sancho]

Most external drives are firewire (if they have USB too, the firewire performance is still far better).

Really? In my experience, most new external drives are either USB-only or USB+FW(maybe +eSATA).

Re:13" MP

[Sancho]

firewire gives better performance than USB for otherwise identical drives.

No doubt. Firewire gets very close to its advertised speeds for sustained throughput. USB advertised speeds are peak throughput, not sustained--they do very poorly when trying to pass a lot of data across that bus.

I browsed over to bestbuy.com to look at their drive offerings. They have 68 drives which are USB-only, and 23 drives which have Firewire connections (and all of those also had USB--combined with a smattering of other multi-BUS drives, there are 97 drives supporting USB.)

All things being equal, I'd prefer the higher throughput of Firewire, however I also have to consider versatility. Every computer I have to touch has a USB port. Only a couple of them have Firewire.

Re:Uneven coverage?

[Cochonou]

You need to get over the fact that Apple, just like Linux, or Google will get a special treatment on Slashdot. These are products/brands that the typical slashdot reader are interested in. You will see that this "article", even if it is nothing more than a glorified press release, will get a large number of comments, justifying its place on the slashdot frontpage.

guess how many mouse buttons it has

[Anonymous Coward]

0.

no mouse buttons. what a joke.

Re:guess how many mouse buttons it has

[LostCauz]

The glass trackpad *is* the buttons, and not like tapping to do a click.

It works in a similar way to the ipod wheel, the corners move down when you press it. Watch the video on the macbook page. I was afraid of that too, but it really is quite nice.

Re:guess how many mouse buttons it has

[chord.wav]

I'm cool with the no mouse buttons -Well, they really made a big button with a trackpad on top of it- but drag and droppers will suffer this. Dragging and dropping using just the trackpad is a mayor pain.

glass touchpad?

[kisrael]

is a glass touchpad that much better?
I ahve an iphone but the only plus I see is that i can see an LCD through it...

Dual Video Cards?

[0100010001010011]

Is anyone's interest peaked by the new dual video cards? Especially with OpenCL possibly being the 'next big thing'. I'd be very interested in Photoshop CS4 benchmarks too.

Second, is this the next big competitive 'edge' (now that everything is dual core). Apple was one of the first companies to put dual processors in consumer products. I remember debating between a Dual 800 MHz or a Single 866 when I went to college and ended up spending the extra on the dual. I swore to myself then that I'd never go back to a single processor. Now everything is dual core, dual processor, quad core, etc.

Re:Dual Video Cards?

[0100010001010011]

Airport was one of the first Consumer 802.11b solutions. Apple provided both the Base Station (router) and their wireless card.
Gigabit ethernet still isn't on most computers you buy from anywhere else.
iSight built in, don't all the new Dells have this?

Even if no one cares about Apple shit or shiny new over priced products. Expect somethings you've heard today to trickle down into every other brand.

No firewire on the MacBook (non-Pro)

[sjonke]

See the tech specs: http://www.apple.com/macbook/specs.html

Re:No firewire on the MacBook (non-Pro)

[daveywest]

I'm wondering about the rational behind that decision. After all, isn't the ability to use iMovie to make your own home movies a big selling point for the consumer level Macs?

Without a firewire interface, iMovie (and by extension iDVD) seems like it would be useless.

Re:No firewire on the MacBook (non-Pro)

[Tibor the Hun]

Not only that, but without FireWire mode, you can't boot as the target firewire drive.
This comes in handy in many troubleshooting instances.

Now the only way to do user migration wizard would be via the ethernet. Not very useful if your macbook won't boot in the first place.
I guess they're relying on TimeMachine to be the primary rescue method of the future.

I can't complain about that, I guess, I've successfully used it on a few occasions.

Re:No firewire on the MacBook (non-Pro)

[King_TJ]

I think DV camcorders using firewire are on their way out. True, I have an old Sony TRV-730 that needs a firewire connection... but one big reason iMovie got a major re-write last year was to support the new video formats all these camcorders use that have internal hard drive or flash memory storage.

Every one of those I've seen is connecting up via USB, not firewire.

Re:No firewire on the MacBook (non-Pro)

[Fahrvergnuugen]

Most consumer video cameras now record to some type of disk instead of tape. Not having tape means that you no longer have to capture video at 29.997 frames per second, thus eliminating the need for the better performing (but more expensive) FireWire port. And so the cameras now have USB2 and no FireWire.

Re:$999 laptop only 1gb of ram? at least it is ddr

[i'm lost]

You're looking at the price of RAM from the Apple store, right? It's a ripoff, buy it from somewhere else and put it in yourself. Most Apple-fanboy forums will even give this advice, and it's easy enough that non-technical people don't have problems following the directions to upgrade their own RAM.

Re:But all glossy...

[Anonymous Coward]

The Mini DisplayPort is downsized from the full sized DVI connector. The Mini DisplayPort can drive everything the big DVI can (30-inch displays).

...if you buy the $30 adapter for it.

Fingers

[lilo_booter]

And the entire trackpad is the button. It gives you more area on the trackpad and keeps you from hunting for that button. You can get multi-button support from software. And we've added some new four-finger gestures that are really nice.

I have a nice 2 finger gesture in response to that.

ugh

[SuperBanana]

Failtastic in so many ways:

• Despite all this we're-environmental crap, it's worse off, because it requires enormous amounts of electricity to make the larger quantity of aluminum, it requires more electricity to machine it, and the vast majority of material is milled right off. The scrap needs to be heated up and melted down AGAIN to "recycle" it. Since they're made in China, the electricity for that is coming directly from coal.
• Still ExpressCard/34, which is useless for many things, particularly CompactFlash readers used by pro photographers.
• Huge black border around the screen, which is wasted space.
• #$@$!ing annoying square, flat keys from the Macbook, and they're black. Am I the only one who thinks it looks incredibly ugly?
• Glossy screen only. To which Phil said, "You offset the reflection by the brightness, and consumers love it. One of the great things about a notebook is you can turn it however you want!" No, douchebag, we HATE the glossy screen, and you've still got to SIT SOMEWHERE with it, and turning up the brightness requires more battery power. Apparently Phil has never tried using one of the glossy screens with something bright behind him. There's a reason almost every TV and computer monitor on the planet has a matte screen.
• Yet another video adapter. We've got a BIN full of these things for when people need to use a projector. Here's another one, for absolutely no particular good reason.
• Security slot in FRONT of the side-mounted DVD drive. Great. So if you want to lock your laptop up, you've got this big cable blocking the drive, and if you eject a CD, it'll eject into the cable. And probably break the drive. Why couldn't it go in the corner?

Re:ugh

[Microlith]

No, douchebag, we HATE the glossy screen,

To be sure, -you- hate the glossy screen. However, if Dell/HP/Toshiba et. al. are any indication, the market as a whole prefers the glossy screens.

So Apple makes laptops with glossy screens. Good luck finding new laptops without them from ANY maker.

Re:ugh

[slaker]

Unlike DVI, it's present on every projector I've ever gotten to use,.

Tilt. Tilt. Tilt. Tilt.

[argent]

OK, my next OS X Notebook is probably going to be a Thinkpad.

I'll Pay Apple what they want for OS X, I'll buy a Mac Mini and not use it if that's what it takes to make my idiot conscience shut the **** up, but I've had it with Apple's passive-aggressive relationship with multi-button mice.

Re:Tilt. Tilt. Tilt. Tilt.

[jeremyp]

Funnily enough Apple have thought of that. When you tap the trackpad to produce a click, the mouse pointer doesn't move. So, no, there s no "tap to click in the wrong place".

Re:Tilt. Tilt. Tilt. Tilt.

[argent]

My fingers are defective then, because I had this problem on my MBP until I got a third party program that let me use corner taps instead. It's still not perfect, but it works better for me... and a lot cheaper than replacing my fingers.

Re:Tilt. Tilt. Tilt. Tilt.

[argent]

I suppose if I was half my age or had kept up my videogame chops I would be able to reliably put two fingers on the trackpad without, often enough to be frustrating, jiggling the pointer enough that I am no longer in the right place for my right click to do what I needed it to.

Re:Tilt. Tilt. Tilt. Tilt.

[vijayiyer]

The new trackpads actually click. As in the whole trackpad moves down like a button. It's not tap to click.

Re: Balony

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm probably in better shape but then I use Lunix exclusively, none of that evil DRM stuff to clog my arteries.

While you're probably right it's not for the same reasons you think.

You're probably in better shape because it takes 20 times more work to do anything with Linux than it does with Mac or Windows. It keeps you on your toes.

Re:Uneven coverage?

[multisync]

Are we going to start seeing frontpage articles here on slashdot when all the other notebook manufacturers come out with new models?

Start? As the saying goes, you must be new here. I'm sure at least some of these made fp:

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/16/1246240&from=rss

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/30/1540203

http://mobile.slashdot.org/mobile/08/08/19/1222226.shtml

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/16/1246240&from=rss

http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/04/1953225&from=rss

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/21/2036240&from=rss

http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/12/0518244&from=rss

So, in answer to your question, nothing will change. We will continue to get whatever stories happen to be in the geek press posted to the front page (sometimes more than once!), and people with axes to grind will continue to whine that Slashdot is either giving too much attention to the target of their derision, or not enough to their platform of choice.

gestures

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok, so first it was 1 finger, then 2, then 3, and now finally 4. What's next, fisting?

(Yes, I know I am a terrible person, why do you ask?)

Re:gestures

[greed]

Well, at least they finally shut up the people complaining about "only one mouse button."

Now there's ZERO! Hahahhaahahaa!

Re:Uneven coverage?

[4D6963]

Because, at least Apple goes at great lengths to hype their new products. You won't report on the latest Lenovo notebook because their press release would be incredibly flat. Steve Jobs just knows how to make the most mundane upgrades sound exciting and newsworthy.

Style over function in announcements

[justinlindh]

The thing that bothers me is that the metallic body announcement is somehow the big headline on most of the news sites, while the announcements of trackpad changes and specs seem to take a backseat. It really emphasizes that Apple wants to appeal to style possibly even more than function.

I'm sure that angle works, as it's now "hip" to own Apple products, but it concerns me that we may start seeing more flash than substance in Apple product lines, which would be a big disappointment since they've been known to be innovators in functionality in the past.

Re:Style over function in announcements

[Frag-A-Muffin]

I think you've missed the point then.

The new metallic body has all sorts of "function" in it. It's lighter AND stronger at the same time. I don't know about you, but have you ever picked up a cheap plastic dell? Next time you do, hold it from the two ends and give it a twist. It'll scare you. Now try that with the old Macbook Air (the first laptop to use this unibody design).

Doesn't twist does it?!

I'm more than willing to pay a little extra for that "style" (or "function" to some people .. like me!)

That's just 1 example. Was MagSafe just stylish too? Ask my brother-in-law and his wife how many times that magsafe saved their laptops with their two kids running around the house.

It's quite obvious to me, and I'm surprised by the inability of slashdot'ers today to "think" about it. Apple now uses commodity hardware. You can get the same crap in a Dell right? So how on earth would they differentiate themselves by just playing the specs game? They can't. And it doesn't maker any sense to. There are umpteen companies that already do. What they do is innovate AROUND those standard parts when they construct a consumer device.

Hence, you get things like MagSafe and Glass trackpad (which I'm super excited about, because if it's anything like my iPhone, I'm gonna love it) and now the unibody!

If another person compares a Dell to this, I'm gonna puke. Seriously, until you find a Dell with the above features, please don't bother. If you're too cheap to pay for the extra features, then great, just say so, don't try to convince me that your $200 cheaper Dell is the same, cuz trust me, in a day to day usage test, it'll fail more epically (is that even a word?) than you can imagine.

P.S. Have you ever seen the design of the Apple power brick with the interchange prongs/cord? If you haven't. That alone is worth the price difference. Why other laptop manufactures can't make a better power brick is beyond me.

17-inch MBP still with 8600M

[roskakori]

From the Q&A:

10:57AM Q: What's up with the 17-inch?
A: Tim: It's being refreshed today as well.

According to the Apple Store, it already has a "New" flag, but the graphics card still is the old 8600M instead of the new 9600M.

media

[Reality Master 201]

A lot of people use their laptops as portable media players - watching movies on the couch, looking at pictures, etc. Glossy screens give the impression of better colors for that kind of use, so they're increasingly used in laptops in the consumer market.

I'm kinda disappointed to read about this, frankly. I'd at least like the option to not have one, cause they're fucking terrible.

Re:media

[Henneshoe]

Go ahead and buy a glossy screen. On the way home stop by the grocery store and pick up some steel wool. Rub the screen with the steel wool and Voila!! A beautiful matte screen.

Note: your results may vary.

Re:media

[Shatrat]

Yeah, especially since steel is softer than glass. D'oh!

Since when?
Glass is about a 5.5 on the Mohs scale.
Steel ranges from 5.5 to 7 depending on the alloy.

Re:media

[Onan]

I thought that glossy screens were an absolutely awful idea when I first heard of them. But after seeing and using them for a while, I now find them to be a far better choice.

Remember, the difference between matte and glossy is now how much glare the screen reflects, just how sharply focused that glare is. With a glossy screen, if you're sitting at the wrong angle, you get a big bright unusable glare. But if you adjust that angle even very slightly, the glare goes away _completely_.

A matte screen, on the other hand, is the hedging approach. There's no single point at which the glare is really awful... and there's no point at which the glare goes away entirely. You're just averaging the glare over all possible angles.

Given how painless it is to nudge a laptop one way or the other by a couple of degrees, I'm now much happier with the option to have no glare whatsoever, rather than just constant not-too-terrible glare. It's a little weird actually seeing true black on a laptop screen in a lit room, but I assure you that it's refreshing.

Re:media

[Yvan256]

And my reply is about 9.2 on the Meh scale.

Re:media

[macshit]

I find that I tend to prefer the reflections on glossy screens. In a non-dark environment, there's usually dimly visible reflection of something, no matter how you nudge it, but after a while I just stop noticing them. My brain seems much better at this sort of mental "filtering out" when the reflections are coherent images, whereas the indistinct glare and reduced contrast from a matte screen never really seem to go away.

Another difference seems to be that anti-reflection coatings work much better with glossy screens (are they even possible with matte screens?).

Re:media

[Molochi]

Lol. But seriously just buy a matt "screen protector". I'm sure there will be one or twelve different brands of them custom cut for the new macs for sale within a week.

Re:media

[drmerope]

Glossy screens give the impression of better colors for that kind of use, so they're increasingly used in laptops in the consumer market.

This is misleading. Glossy screens DO have better color saturation and CAN offer better color gamut as a result. They also have better contrast.

A matte anti-reflection coating works by diffusing the light so that point sources, backlight bleed, other pixels all reflect from the surface everywhere--the result is a loss of contrast. Many graphics arts people will tell you glossy "sux". They are just parroting what they learned in vague terms: "don't buy glossy" No further explanation.

Most people I know who don't like glossy, disliked it after learning that it wasn't 'professional'. Well here is a secret: glossy is bad for press work because CYMK ink processes cannot achieve the same color saturation as the screen. So if you have 24b or 18b or whatever color, you distribute your dynamic range over a color-space that isn't usable in print. Which means: 1) you can more easily pick impossible colors (if you don't rigorously use gamut checks) and 2) the colorimetric distance between any two colors on your display is further (more gamut) therefore less fine distinction.

#2 matters if you're trying to say match skin tone. #2 also matters if you try to color calibrate the screen. The closer together your color-steps are the easier it is calibrate (lots of precision), but a glossy screen has bigger steps between colors (covers more color space) and thus cheapo calibration equipment and software fails to converge. This especially true if the LCD panel (not the coating) is cheap 6b/channel.

Last, glossy is really bad for windows. In windows, everything is assumed to be sRGB color-space (wrong) unless you are in photoshop. Your screen has more gamut, more saturation, but windows does not do color-space translation on its own. Ergo: all your colors are slightly wrong in every program but photoshop (or equivalent). On MacOS, color-space translation is available in many more programs thanks to the OS

.

Argh...

[PortHaven]

Well there went my hope that they'd finally offer us two-buttons.

*sighs*

There is nothing I hate more than having to use a trackpad as a click-button. You try to move the cursor and open up half a dozen links accidentally.

I nearly sent back my Dell until we found drivers that let me turn that feature off. :(

Steve...YOUR A TWIT!!!

Re:Argh...

[Free the Cowards]

But it can tell which finger applied the pressure, and tell the difference between a left and a right click.

No it can't. It can tell which fingers are touching it. But it cannot tell the difference between pressing with your right finger or your left finger if both fingers are in contact. To perform a right click with the Mighty Mouse you have to lift up with your left finger and click with the right.

This, in a word, sucks.

Hopefully the MacBook trackpads are better. Sounds like they are. But the Mighty Mouse is just utterly horrible.

Re:Argh...

[PotatoFarmer]

Fortunately, they've also included an accelerometer into these new models, such that you can pick them up and tilt them around to move the mouse cursor where you want it. Clicking is easy, too - just drop the laptop.

Double-clicking is a bit harder, but with a mallet and a bit of practice you'll have it down.

Re:Argh...

[MidKnight]

... To perform a right click with the Mighty Mouse you have to lift up with your left finger and click with the right.

This, in a word, sucks.

Have you used one for more than a minute or two? You'd be surprised how quickly you adapt to it; it's just another muscle-memory thing. When I'm using a more traditional two-button mouse, I find it quaint that it has actual physical buttons, and that the scroll button/wheel is only two directional.

Hopefully the MacBook trackpads are better. Sounds like they are.

I'll bet the physical feel is pretty damn good. I'm still amazed at how well multi-touch works on an iPhone screen, and I'm guessing the glass mouse will be very similar.

Re:Argh...

[Gulthek]

No it can't. It can tell which fingers are touching it. But it cannot tell the difference between pressing with your right finger or your left finger if both fingers are in contact. To perform a right click with the Mighty Mouse you have to lift up with your left finger and click with the right.

I didn't believe you so I grabbed my mighty mouse and right clicked: worked fine, no issue. Then I realized that my left finger was slightly lifted. I actually had to concentrate to keep my left finger down while I right clicked to see the issue you are complaining about.

Re:Argh...

[SaDan]

Yeah, I used a mighty mouse for a month when I started a new job that only has Mac workstations.

I now have generic USB two-button mouse w/wheel that works.

It's another form over function problem with Apple peripherals.

Re:Argh...

[Free the Cowards]

How funny! I wonder if you subconsciously trained to do that after getting a Mighty Mouse, or if you just do it anyway. If a lot of people do this subconsciously it would explain why there are so many people out there who don't think it's horrible.

Re:But all glossy...

[Cobalt Jacket]

Do you understand that DisplayPort is capable of more than DVI? I believe it surpasses HDMI as well. Furthermore, /.-ers should be overjoyed at a connector that is royalty/license-free.

Re:But all glossy...

[demonbug]

Furthermore, /.-ers should be overjoyed at a connector that is royalty/license-free.

And yet still costs more than those royalty/license-laden connectors... funny how that works.

Re:But all glossy...

[0100010001010011]

It was also JUST ANNOUNCED TODAY. Wait until it shows up on Monoprice.

Re:Want!

[jasonbowen]

I wanted one bad too. Now I wish I didn't pay the premium when I discovered just how easily the case of my MacBook Pro is damaged. I have three dents including on that has rendered my optical drive unusable. I paid $2000 for a laptop that is not as durable as advertised. I'm going back to a non-apple laptop with Linux when this one has gone through it's useful life. The only thing that brought me over to Apple was OS X and now the quality is pushing me back. The smugness of the Apple Store and the Apple Authorized repair shops has also driven me away. The asking price of $610 to replace the bottom case was also a deal breaker for me. Apple just isn't worth it and I feel stupid for having taken a drink of the kool-aid.

Re:Uneven coverage?

[LWATCDR]

If that other notebook doesn't run Windows then yes.
the EeeePC, Dell9, and many other netbooks with Linux options made it to the front page.
It is only Windows notebooks that get ignored because they are frankly all the same.
Apple has come up with some interesting things like their power adapter and now this case.

Re:But all glossy...

[pushing-robot]

And yet still costs more than those royalty/license-laden connectors... funny how that works.

Because speech != beer?

Smart

[psydeshow]

Wow, Apple is smart.

They stick with NVidia GPUs, but give you two: when the first stops working you can switch to the backup.

They're so on it.

Re:is there some kind of film you can apply?

[Reality Master 201]

Cause I prefer using a Mac? I like OS X. I'm a perfectly capable *nix user, so I like having it available to me, in addition to a nice simple GUI.

Re:But all glossy...

[xouumalperxe]

Scratch that, it's not an actual superset, but it's easy enough to convert from one to the other, and it's (supposedly) better. The wikipedia article on it does show a good set of features, including a standard for internal connections (like those used in laptops).

meh

[Speare]

* I've got MBP 17" now. I like it. They are dropping that size.

* I don't like the new "partial tapered" (their term) or "puffy" (my term) lid.

* I don't like the black bezel inside the lid. Match the whole case.

* I hate the fugly new keyboards that feel and look like IBM PCjr chicklet.

* I don't care if it's magnetic or a button to pop the lid.

* I don't care if there's a slot visible on the front.

* I don't like having to carry yet another kind of custom one-use rat tail to put my laptop on someone else's cheap VGA-style projector.

* I don't like losing a Firewire port. All the little RAID cabinets like Firewire.

* I do wish my MBP had heat sensors on the graphics system; the processor sensors are sometimes midrange while the graphics head is starting to exhibit heat-induced artifacts. When running clamshell I have to run it on top of a cooling tray device or crank the internal fans to 3000rpm.

* I do wish they'd fix the runaway-syslogd problem in Leopard. I have read all the howtos and forum lists, nothing but a 15min cronjob to kill it is helping.

* I do wish they'd fix the too-many-hd-resets problem in Leopard, if I leave the machine on overnight with little disk activity, my drive will reset itself to a state it won't spin up again. Everything RAM-resident runs, but more and more processes go zombie when the disk doesn't spin up.

With all this preoccupation about flash and gloss in the hardware, there is a growing list of software problems. Return to the basics.

Re:meh

[profplump]

I agree video adaptors are annoying, but DisplayPort is a step in the right direction -- it's not something that Apple invented, and it's becoming available on Dell, HP, Lenovo, Samsung, etc. systems and displays as well.

So at the very least you won't be stuck buying Apple-produced adaptors or having the adaptor only work with one model of laptop.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/en/WF06c/A10-51210-64268-348724-64268-3769762-3769763-3769765.html

Re:meh

[tfoss]

I've got MBP 17" now. I like it. They are dropping that size.

Not according to the Q&A or apple store. It just doesn't get the update that you seem so "meh" on. You should consider that a win.

-Ted

Re:meh

[garote]

* I've got MBP 17" now. I like it. They are dropping that size.

No they're not.

* I don't like having to carry yet another kind of custom one-use rat tail to put my laptop on someone else's cheap VGA-style projector.

This hasn't changed.

* I do wish my MBP had heat sensors on the graphics system; the processor sensors are sometimes midrange while the graphics head is starting to exhibit heat-induced artifacts.

It does.

* I do wish they'd fix the runaway-syslogd problem in Leopard. I have read all the howtos and forum lists, nothing but a 15min cronjob to kill it is helping.
* I do wish they'd fix the too-many-hd-resets problem in Leopard, if I leave the machine on overnight with little disk activity, my drive will reset itself to a state it won't spin up again. Everything RAM-resident runs, but more and more processes go zombie when the disk doesn't spin up.

Never experienced or seen either of these myself.

* I don't like the new "partial tapered" (their term) or "puffy" (my term) lid.
* I don't like the black bezel inside the lid. Match the whole case.
* I hate the fugly new keyboards that feel and look like IBM PCjr chicklet.
* I don't care if it's magnetic or a button to pop the lid.
* I don't care if there's a slot visible on the front.

Then screw you, jack. Go buy a Dell. Or better yet: Don't replace what you have, and donate a couple thousand bucks to a charity instead.
You know what I don't like? Sugarless gum. And those new-fangled behind-the-head earphones. I also don't like tiny toy dogs. And open-toed shoes. And I hate vinyl records. And I hate it when the cat drinks from the toilet. Furthermore, I hate other people's personal preferences, and the way they spew them onto public forums like they have any qualitative value whatsoever.

Re:Is the new case going to be more durable?

[MobyDisk]

Almost no other laptop would have survived such a drop. There are a few industrial-ish laptops like the Toughbooks. Otherwise, you are lucky your hard drive works and your LCD didn't crack. Be thankful.

I have a MBP that survived a heft fall in my cushioned backpack. Slightly dented. I can't imagine any plastic case would have survived it. Not to mention the fact that the MBP is very light for its size.

Re:Release timing

[hondo77]

Because they're releasing them right before the start of the Christmas shopping season.

Make's Take

[BrendaEM]

The billet aluminum construction allows Apple to have the case made from almost any competent CNC shop. Thought they were extruding the material to rough the size for savings, the dimension could also be cut from plate. This means that Apple is no longer stuck with a single-source for cases. Stamped and bent fussy parts and custom dies are not needed. Minor product changes, such as adding bosses/riser can be done on the fly.

The inside of the case could have been milled using a ball mill which would have introduced radii that would keep the thick/thin area transitions from failure when there is a fall.

In the future, they may be able to add more support for a tougher case. Still, I still would not want to drop a new Macbook pro.

The radius on the edge of the case should have a larger radius to be more comfortable, but also to minimize that sharp edge as a wear indicator. Ives is good, but like everyone else--not perfect, someone needs to know when and when not to question him.

The better graphic chip in the Macbook means that It can finally run graphic applications, and the change may have something to do with Nvidia Cuda support in applications such Photoshop--bearing down on product design. It also means that Macbooks may be able to run FinalCut, or have enough graphic power to play and edit home movies from their AVCHD digital camcorder.

I am saddened by the exclusion of a matte screen. While it is a personal preference, I feel that glossy screens do not work well in indoor/outdoor environments such as coffeeshops. To watch Apple's own product design videos, is to see the glare for yourself.

I am uncertain whether or not there is a interference coating on the screen. Adding a second piece of glass could add 5% transmission loss per service, meaning 10% if the glass is not interference coated. This means a brighr backlight setting, and the loss of batter life. The expansive glass on the screen goes close to the edges, meaning that a 3mm dent in the lid will probably shatter the cover glass. I reason that the older Macbook Pro would survive that damage, and the new ones would not.

Brenda Make

Re:But all glossy...

[plazman30]

Display Port is the new industry standard. All the new HPs laptops are coming with Display Port.

Re:But all glossy...

[plazman30]

HDMI has patents and licensing involved. That's why almost no PC maker is using it.

Display Port is a free industry standard.

Re:Want!

[chaim79]

holy cow, where are you using it, a rockslide???

I have a 17-inch MacBook Pro, I don't have a normal laptop case just a backpack and a neoprene sleeve and I've got no dents. I've taken it:

• Vacations (camping out for a week or more at a time)
• School (dragged it in and unpacked it for each class)
• Business trips (lived my weekdays in a hotel for 4-5 months, weekends had running at home)
• Everywhere else (I often take it with me to friends houses when I'm helping them with something computer related).

It's been all over the place and plenty of times packed in the back of the car with a ton of other gear and I have no problems, whatever you are doing must be well beyond the normal usage of a laptop. I suspect you'll have the same dent/damage problems with whatever laptop you buy, you are aparently somewhat abusive of your computers.

Re:is there some kind of film you can apply?

[Ambitwistor]

Preferring OS X is relevant because if you want to buy a laptop with OS X, you're now stuck with a glossy screen.

You can't buy and connect any screen you want without serious modifications to the laptop. Adding an external display is not the point; it's a portable computer.

Re:Want!

[suzerain]

What do you do to your laptop, exactly? I don't mean that in a nasty way...I'm really wondering. My MacBook Pro has been to 10-15 countries, used in cafes and airplanes and everywhere in between, toted around in a backpack, and it rides on my back when I ride my bike. It has no dents. I certainly could dent the thing (it's dentable), but I'm wondering if your normal wear-and-tear perhaps isn't so normal?

Re:But all glossy...

[saboola]

and.... NOW the wikipedia article states that the Mini DisplayPort is a bi-product of Kraft Velveeta cheese.

Re:Their marketing department is on drugs

[Massacrifice]

I think the 802.11n standard is a matter of details now. All current wireless chipsets are technically capable of it, but may not implement it identically. Once the standard gets formalized, a firmware update should be enough to give you full compatibilty with other n-compliant devices. So it's more like "n-capable" in a "Vista-capable" way than really n-compliant. I guess the marketing guys got tired of waiting for the standard...

Um, are you sure?

[Estanislao Mart�nez]

Has this changed recently? Because at least as recently as my 1st-gen Macbook Pro, upgrading the RAM on any Mac I've ever used doesn't void the warranty. Hell, the computer's instruction booklet shows you how do to it.

Re:Smart people.

[Just Some Guy]

Apple is overpriced.

No, they're not. As long as they're reaching their sales goals, their price is less than or equal to what it could be. For having such a high opinion of yourself and your financial habits, you suck at economics.

Re:Want!

[jeremyp]

Unless you have ideological reasons for preferring Linux to Mac OS X why would you care if Linux runs on it or not? OS X is Unix and will run all the same software Linux will run.

Steve...YOUR A TWIT!!!

[DesScorp]

Well there went my hope that they'd finally offer us two-buttons.

*sighs*

There is nothing I hate more than having to use a trackpad as a click-button. You try to move the cursor and open up half a dozen links accidentally.

I nearly sent back my Dell until we found drivers that let me turn that feature off. :(

Steve...YOUR A TWIT!!!

Is anyone else actually looking forward to the day that Steve Jobs retires? Every computer Apple now makes either looks like a hunk of metal and glass or a cheese grater; its brutalist architecture for the PC, and it's just as ugly on computers as it is on buildings.

It's also painfully obvious that he doesn't give a rat-fuck about what end users want; note the number of mouse buttons on the new laptops.

Jobs built, and then re-built, this company into what it is, but I'm tired of all the computer models being his personal art project. You can expect excellence in design from Apple without this depressing, Bauhaus case design that Apple seems addicted to now. We're getting German worker housing in a PC, and paying a premium for it. Apple computers used to be beautiful and original. I love my eMac... it's instantly recognizable as an Apple with its white plastic and round curves. Now all of Apple's computers are dark, gun-metal slabs. I seriously wonder if Jobs and Ive spend all their time shooting heroin and listening to Goth music in the dark now.

Re:Incorrect. Macs can boot from USB

[daveywest]

Clarification: Intel Macs can boot from USB. Details can be found here: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1948

Re:But all glossy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Look again. Sure, $30 will get you a DVI adaptor, but if you want dual link (for that 30") you need the $100 model...

Re:Glossy only? Agreed!

[King_TJ]

I have the matte finish Macbook Pro right now, but I've gone to glossy displays for all of my new LCD monitor purchases, and am now going to order a new MB Pro - glossy screen and all.

The only people I really hear throwing huge fits about this are the self-proclaimed "pro photography" set, who claim they can't do accurate color comparisons without their matte displays.

To them, I say:

1. You couldn't do them anyway on most LCD matte finish laptop screens, when they weren't even accurately displaying all 16.7 million colors in the spectrum at all.

2. If you're fighting the glare issue, you're working in sub-optimal conditions that aren't conducive to anything as tedious as color matching and photo touch-up work! Consider it your warning that you need to change your surroundings before continuing your work ... not a reason to get a different display.

And BTW, not all "glossy" displays are created equal, either. I recently tried out a glossy finish Acer 22" LCD panel that everyone describes as more of a "semi gloss" look.

Consumers may love it. Pros won't.

[weston]

Phil: You offset the reflection by the brightness, and consumers love it.

That's great, but people who actually have to *work* for a while on their machines will probably hate it.

I thoroughly hate it, so thoroughly that it was a complete dealbreaker for me on the MacBook and MacBook Air, so thoroughly that I very nearly hate Phil personally for that statement, so thoroughly that despite everything else I love about Apple products, if I can only get them with a glossy screen, I might not bother.

One of the great things about a notebook is you can turn it however you want!

That's true if the environment you're working in doesn't have any constraints on which way you're sitting, which is often not the case. And I don't want to spend time futzing around with avoiding glare. I have other things to do with this machine I've bought.

Dueling Anecdotes

[weston]

And having used one for the past year, the glare issue is really a red herring. I don't notice it.

That's great that it doesn't bother you, and I think it's fine that people who for whatever reason don't seem to mind glare can buy glossy screens, but the tone of your post is so dismissive of the genuine problems people have with glossy screens that it's bordering on insulting.

It's really hard to fathom that anyone who has actually used a glossy display for any serious amount of time wouldn't prefer it to a matte display.

For a bit over two months this year I was borrowing laptops while mine broke, including a MacBook. They had glossy screens. I absolutely hate them. I suppose you can argue that 2 months for 8-14 hours per day of use isn't a "serious amount of time", but you'd be wrong.

Re:One word: RIPOFF.

[King_TJ]

That's YOUR opinion, but I'd argue it's quite one-sided and flawed too.

First off, you're upset that they dropped the price of a big selling notebook (older style white Macbook) by $100? Yeah, it's not "new tech", but it's a proven design people bought millions of already. And today, it's $100 cheaper than yesterday. If you follow typical Apple product life-cycles, it's likely it's going away within the next 6-9 months anyway. They like to do this with popular products, rather than immediately dropping them. (Remember the eMac, or the PowerMac G4 towers when they became the last system still capable of running MacOS 9.x natively?)

As for that Gateway laptop you're talking about? Does it have a mag-safe adapter on it? How about a backlit keyboard? When you lock one with a Kensington security cable, does it also lock the battery and hard drive compartments? How's the support from old Gateway these days? (I can still visit one of a couple local Apple stores in town, but "Gateway Country" stores didn't fare so well.....) And obviously, it lacks OS X too.

Buy what you like, but personally, I'm more inclined to say the real "ripoff" are these sub-standard quality laptops Toshiba, Gateway, Dell, HP and others keep cranking out. I have no problem paying more for quality, and I think with Apple, it's generally there. (Claiming OS X is simply "cutesy graphics and a slick UI" sells it pretty short too, but I'm not even going to get started on that.)

Re:Smart people.

[Just Some Guy]

No, I think he was just being coolly anti-establishment, and blanketly stating that Apple's products are overpriced. To that, I assert that the market is willing to bear the price, so they must be correctly priced regardless of his opinion on the matter.

I'm typing this on an Eee PC. Apple could go out of business tomorrow and it wouldn't affect me one bit. Still, I think their pricing is between them and their customers, and right now everyone seems to be happy.

Re:But all glossy...

[nine-times]

Because speech != beer?

...and yet for me at parties, beer = speech.

We have quite a mathematical conundrum on our hands.

Re:No 3g?

[x102output]

Jailbreak and then install PDANet. I use it all the time with my iPhone in my pocket and my MBP on my lap.

HDMI DisplayPort

[yabos]

HDMI has limited resolution compared to DisplayPort making it the inferior spec.

Definitely a known problem--hence the redesign

[snowwrestler]

Dented and flexed cases in the AL Powerbooks and Macbook Pros are a pretty well known problem. Drop it just right onto concrete or tile, even from a pretty short height, and you might find yourself with a big dent or an unusable optical drive. This is an unfortunate side effect of using such thin, stamped AL for the case.

This is a big reason they redesigned the case. The 3-D milling allows very precise placement of material, which should produce a stiffer case for the same weight. But also take a look at how they designed the case. The bottom half used to be a single "tub" of aluminum, with a separate piece for the "deck." Now the sides are attached to the deck, with a separate piece for the very bottom surface. This creates stronger corners, and an easily-replacable bottom surface if a dent does occur.

Also, take a look at where they put the optical bay. This is one of the weakest parts of the structure because it's a big hole in the sidewall. Again, the milling should allow them to thicken the border of the disc port a bit, to stiffen it up. And it's placed directly over the battery, which is one of the strongest and most solid parts of the computer.

I think the new design should be a lot more resistant to stupid dings and expensive fixes.

Re:Definitely a known problem--hence the redesign

[jasonbowen]

It could be argued that a redesign is an admission of a previously flawed design?

Re:Definitely a known problem--hence the redesign

[shmlco]

Or the result of a new manufacturing process that wasn't commercially available or viable when the original was designed.

Re:Definitely a known problem--hence the redesign

[Free the Cowards]

Only in that every single thing, ever, is flawed.

Re:But all glossy...

[douthat]

It gets worse: The adapter capable of running the 30" display is $99, not $30.

The $30 adapter is only capable of running 1920x1200

http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=displayport

Re:But all glossy...

[ProfessionalCookie]

I like speech and I like beer but if I gotta choose, it's gonna be speech. Bring on the DisplayPort.

Re:Incorrect. Macs can boot from USB

[ceoyoyo]

He said target mode. That's where your Mac pretends it's an external hard drive. It's really handy in some circumstances, particularly when you get a new computer. Just wire the two of them together, click go and let them talk for a couple hours. Bang - your new computer is a clone of your old one.

You're about two years behind the times

[SuperKendall]

No serious colorimetric work is yet being done with LCDs

Well I'm a Very Serious Photographer With Color Managed Systems, and I can tell you you're full of hooey.

There are a number of Serious LCD monitors now, some with advanced features like wide gamuts, and good enough viewing angles so that you can move side to side within at least the range of the monitor and see no shift.

What you said might have been true about two years ago, but the industry has moved well beyond all Serious work being done on CRT's these days.

Re:But all glossy...

[Yvan256]

Wow, I didn't know Ladas doubled in value recently.

I'm a sysadmin in a design agency

[theolein]

Where I work we have 45 Macs. Of those 35 people have now switched to plain jane Logitech LX optical mice because the Apple mouse is so spectacularly bad. People get wrist cramps having permanently hold the left finger away when right clicking, the shape of the mouse is painful for many of them over time, and to top it all, the little scroll ball invariably gunks up with finger sweat and dirt after a while and you can only clean it so many times before the ball wears away and no longer maintains contact to the little slide wheels inside the mouse.

The Apple mouse is a terrible product, and its bluetooth pendant is even worse. the battery life is so bad that most people who have ehm and use them every day have to replace the batteries about once a month. I switched long ago to a Logitech LX-7 wireless which has used the same set of batteries for about 8 months.

I like Apple's products, and even own a Mac Pro tower myself, but I get really tired of people praising every thing Apple does simply because it's Apple.

Re:But all glossy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee its funny that they keep changing the "mini" display adapter for every laptop.

mini-vga - ibook
mini-dvi - macbook (previous generations)
micro-dvi - macbook air
mini-displayport - current generation macbook and macbook pro

Now the adapters that I bought for previous laptops are incompatible with the new one. To get basic connectivity you have to buy both the vga and dvi adapters (since the dvi is missing a pin it cannot work with additional DVI-to-VGA adapters). Why do I need to spend $60 extra for every laptop, merely cause Apple cannot even standarize on its own adapters?

More importantly, goodbye FIREWIRE on the MB.

[StarKruzr]

How the hell does this make any sense?

The whole POINT of Macs has been, in part, to enable Average Joe to do digital content creation. To let ordinary people do extraordinary things, with pictures, video, music, etc. Now you take the best-selling Mac ever and remove its ability to import video?

What the hell are they thinking?

Re:But all glossy...

[ChrisA90278]

..if you buy the $30 adapter for it..

NO. It seems Apple's now 24" monitor has a matching mini size connector. No adapor needed if you buy the two together.

Someone asked Jobs "why not HDMI". Answer was that the HDMI ca't drive the 30" display. Turns out HDMI was only designed with TV in mind and big computer monitors have much higher resolution than TVs

Yes, glossy is not good at all if you are a pro photographer or a graphic artist working with print media. But Apple sees the numbers: There are more people who use the computer as an entertainment console than there are graphic professionals. They want to sell to the larger numbers

Re:Glossy only? Agreed!

[AbRASiON]

Rubbish just rubbish, it seems to me the 'pro glossy' crowd are convinced that the 'matte crowd' are a bunch of stuck up photo editing nitwits who should be photo editing on a desktop anyhow.

To that I respond that *I* and *EVERYONE* I know are regular users and every single one of them who have encountered a glossy display have also had precisely the same complaints I have, I DO NOT want to see myself in my damn screen constantly.

Perhaps you and others use consistently white web pages or applications all day but some of us actually look at dark web pages, dark movies or tv shows, terminal windows and don't need to see ourselves or do our makeup.

Re:Glossy only? Agreed!

[vought]

The only people I really hear throwing huge fits about this are the self-proclaimed "pro photography" set

I work with several professional photographers as a consultant. I can assure you that glossy displays DO NOT work as well subjectively for most photographers and other artists using LCD displays. Some photographers still insist on using CRTs because of those subjective preferences.

You can bake the numbers all you want, but if the palette and contrast don't feel right for photographers - many of which started using Photoshop to work with Tango-scanned film images - they will not touch it. Consistency, not gimmicks, are key for these folks.

These are not gear queers running out to compare the specs on the newest whoosy-whatsit, but artists who are extremely picky about their equipment. Here's what they tell me they HATE about glossy displays:

-Extreme brightness on glossy displays = extreme contrast. It's harder to believe you're looking at a calibrated 2.2 gamma when your "superbrite" glossy LCD display has such a massive contrast ratio.

-Working in neutrally-painted, darkened rooms is optimal. When you turn these superbright LCDs down to achieve a reasonable brightness for a darkened room, the glare and reflections from the glossy panel are distracting. Turn it back up, and it takes you several seconds to a minute to see where you're going.

-The higher brightness leads to colors looking more saturated, which sells with consumers. Most pros I talk to HATE it. Photographers who rely on a muted palette and who work in color managed workflows can't tell what's going to roll out of their printer with displays like the iMac's glossy LED display - the colors seem too contrasty and saturated, so everything gets dialled down too far.

That's my experience. Pros hate these damned displays.

Re:OK, I give, where is the 1K premium from Pro

[Peganthyrus]

I'm a professional artist and animator, and my only screen is my several-year-old 15" G4 Powerbook. I'd like to have an external screen to hook it up to but I can't afford one right now. At the current day gig I have a big-ass tower Mac with two monitors, and honestly it makes my neck hurt.

There are tons of people whose pro machine is a laptop. Especially freelancers: you can throw it and the tablet in your bag and go out to the café when 'working at home' becomes 'slacking' too often.

Lots of fixed positions besides desks.

[weston]

If you're computing from a fixed seating position you're probably sitting at a desk.

If you're sitting at a desk, it might be your desk, at which you could do all of those things, but it might not. It might be at the office you're visiting.

It might not be a desk. It might be a seat on a plane or train, sunlight coming in from a nearby window you don't control (and boy, if there's any setting in which you have almost no room to maneuver, it's on a plane in coach. And yet the Mac Book Air? Glossy only from day one.)

It might be the one of a small set of seats available to you at a conference room, or a lecture hall.

It might be a park bench, it might be on the couch in the living room facing the TV where you're sitting to be with your SO or family while they're watching it, and you're trying to work, but the sunset through the window behind the couch is causing a problem.

If you bought a laptop, the whole point is that you'd like to be able to move it around and use it anywhere. The constraints arbitrarily added by the glare off a glossy screen make it more difficult.

Re:Glossy only? Agreed!

[lucas teh geek]

Consider it your warning that you need to change your surroundings before continuing your work ... not a reason to get a different display.

and here I was thinking people bought laptops so they could work anywhere they wanted

Re:HDMI DisplayPort

[fartrader]

HDMI has limited resolution compared to DisplayPort making it the inferior spec.

This is a VHS/Betamax argument - its irrelevant what the spec is or does - its what the market dictates...and its strongly hinting HDMI with a baseball bat.

Re:Glossy only? Agreed!

[Anonymous Coward]

Glossy screens are just not acceptable for the calibration and perception standards

Oh, come on. You seriously maintain that you cannot calibrate the color output of a glossy display? Do you even know what the only physical difference between the two is?

Let me inform you, since you probably do not. There is literally no difference in any of the elements which significantly affect the spectrum of the emitted light. In a LCD display, those would be the backlight, the LCD subpixel intensity filters, and the color filter. All these components are 100% identical between a glossy and non glossy display. The one and only different component is that a matte display has a surface roughening treatment (or coating) on the outermost glass layer to provide some scattering.

Scattering does two things, one desirable and one undesirable. The desirable part is that it greatly reduces the intensity of reflections of other things in a room (especially light sources). It's hard to see a reflected image when the light is reflected in a ton of different directions by the rough surface.

The undesirable part is that it does the same thing to the image being displayed. And that's why people like glossy displays: the colors can be much more saturated (matte displays have a bit of a whiteout effect) and the display is brighter given identical backlights (scattering sends a lot of the light output off in random directions).

Re:Is the new case going to be more durable?

[Jorophose]

I once dropped my T40p thinkpad on a sidewalk when I was in Africa. Yeah, that rift is from MY thinkpad. And you know what? I didn't even get a scratch on it!

Re:But all glossy...

[icknay]

I work at a university and a corp, and literally every projector is set up with vga input which is ancient but effective. I predict that for the next few years, you will be seated at some presentation, and then the presenter will realize they forgot the dongle and the presentation will be delayed as people run around looking for the adapter. At that moment, the thought will pass through your mind THANK YOU STEVE JOBS FOR SCREWING UP YET ANOTHER PRESENTATION! It'll be hilarious the first 5 or 10 times.

I don't understand why they just don't build a vga connector on there. That would be so much more valuable to me than being a little slimmer or sleeker or whatever. The little dongle, which you mostly don't need, but in rare cases you do ... well of course that's just the sort of thing you're going to forget sometimes. What a user-hostile design.

Re:But all glossy...

[plazman30]

We just had an HP rep come in and show us the whole line of new laptops last week, and NONE of them have HDMI. They all HAD DVI or VGA and are now all going to have Display Port connectors.

Re:But all glossy...

[gb506]

Something tells me that folks in the market to buy BOTH a Macbook Pro AND a 30" display are not going to bitch, moan, and stomp their feet when forced to buy a $100 adapter.

Re:But all glossy...

[friedmud]

BTW: This has been the case for Mac laptops (especially the Macbooks) for the last few years... they have all had mini-DVI ports on them that needed a dongle to output VGA.

Even the Macbook Pro only had a DVI port on it and needed a dongle to output VGA (which it came with).

My whole group at work uses nothing but Mac Laptops... it is pretty funny when someone forgets their dongle... but there's always someone around that has one (I carry two actually, just in case I leave one somewhere while on a business trip).

Anyway... my point is that this isn't a new situation...

Friedmud

Re:But all glossy...

[actionbastard]

"There are more people who use the computer as an entertainment console..."

Yes, I have to admit, pr0n does look better on a Mac...

Re:Glossy only? Agreed!

[drmerope]

"Pros" hate them because of poor information spread around arts schools and forums. Lets take a point-by-point:

Extreme brightness on glossy displays = extreme contrast. It's harder to believe you're looking at a calibrated 2.2 gamma when your "superbrite" glossy LCD display has such a massive contrast ratio.

Contrast has nothing what so ever do with gamma. A CRT has a contrast ratio in the 10000-100000:1 range.

Working in neutrally-painted, darkened rooms is optimal. When you turn these superbright LCDs down to achieve a reasonable brightness for a darkened room, the glare and reflections from the glossy panel are distracting. Turn it back up, and it takes you several seconds to a minute to see where you're going.

Glossy LCDs use coatings which originated with CRTs. Its the same technology evolved. A CRT and a glossy LCD have similar glare properties. If you clients are having glare problems, they need to be using a hood.

The higher brightness leads to colors looking more saturated, which sells with consumers.

Glossy screens are not any brighter than matte. Their contrast comes from having a better black-level, i.e., less diffuse glare from the environment. "Color saturation" is how much "white" is mixed into color. Matte screens have worse saturation because they mix in (diffuse) more environmental "white" light.

Photographers who rely on a muted palette and who work in color managed workflows can't tell what's going to roll out of their printer with displays like the iMac's glossy LED display - the colors seem too contrasty and saturated, so everything gets dialled down too far.

This point is the closest to being right. Glossy screens have a more different color-space relative to CYMK ink processes than matte screens. But any good software, such as photoshop, has the ability to highlight gamut errors. The remaining trouble is that the in gmaut color-space is compressed because the display's color-space is larger.

The real problem is that 8b/color channel is not enough for modern wide-gamut displays such those you can make using LED backlights and glossy anti-glare coatings. Photographers near universal failure to understand the technical situation and speak-up means that their needs are wholly under-represented, and many of the new color-professional wide-gamut products are unusable due the colorimetric distances being too far given 8b/color channel.

Re:But all glossy...

[hitmark]

because they make the big bucks by nickle and dimeing you to death...

Have you tried editing DVD-camera content?

[RMH101]

DV has the great advantage of being uncompressed video. Nice and cheap (from a CPU standpoint) to edit. DVD-recording camcorders are terrible if you want to edit. Compressed footage is lossy, and also computationally slow to edit as it needs to be uncompressed on the fly. Ugh.

Shame the MB doesn't have an Expresscard slot to add firewire. Does seem a major omission in a media laptop.

Re:Have you tried editing DVD-camera content?

[flud]

Wrong. DV uses intraframe compression (DCT) vs. interframe compression codecs such as MPEG2.

Re:But all glossy...

[cicatrix1]

Um. Yeah, except one also carries audio. Making them, you know, not even close.