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New Font Uses Holes To Cut Ink Use

An anonymous reader writes "A Dutch company has taken an open source Sans Serif font and added holes to it to try and save on printer ink costs. The Ecofont is claimed to save up to 20 percent of ink costs, but it allegedly took the firm a while to perfect the ratio of the maximum number of holes possible without sacrificing readability."

132 of 540 comments (clear)

  1. Practicality? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Looks interesting, but probably not very practical. Surely simply printing in draft mode and in grey-scale is an easier way? On screen this is probably going to be more headache than its worth.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:Practicality? by iYk6 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On screen this is probably going to be more headache than its worth.

      On screen it isn't worth anything. But really, this is obviously a gimmick with little to no benefit. Much like Blackle.

    2. Re:Practicality? by clone53421 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ahhh... so, bonus points for @media print{body{font-family:Spranq Eco Sans;}}?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    3. Re:Practicality? by Jesus_666 · · Score: 5, Funny

      You're not getting it. Those are speed holes. They make the font faster.

      I'm waiting for the serif version of that font; there they'll replace the serifs with spoilers. I also think they will add a special Type-R sticker glyph in a Unicode Private Use Area to make it go even faster. Then the only thing that could possibly beat the font would be drift typing - but everyone knows that technique can be handled only by the most extreme Japanese fonts.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    4. Re:Practicality? by pla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Looks interesting

      No, looks like complete and utter crap.

      And I say that as someone who encourages people to print in the most severe toner-saving mode their printer has; as someone who duplexes everything, often 4-up per side; someone who considers a 9pt font shamelessly wasteful for anything but a presentation-quality final result.

      I also say it as someone who doesn't get all elitist about fonts (I happen to like Comic Sans, ThankYouVeryMuch), as long as they don't hurt to read.

      And Spranq Eco Sans hurts to read. At large sizes, it looks like a billboard with all the lights out, and at small sizes it looks like someone ran it through the shredder and taped it back together. Just way too visually distracting to even consider.

    5. Re:Practicality? by DiegoBravo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >> someone who considers a 9pt font shamelessly wasteful for anything but a presentation-quality final result.

      Maybe using a bit bigger font size will save in your future ophthalmologist bills.

    6. Re:Practicality? by TornCityVenz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you tested it on a laser printer is it very unlikely that the "ink" spread out to fill the holes. laser printers use toner.

      --
      I Need someone to rebuild a Digitech Digital Delay pedal for me....for me...for me...for me.
    7. Re:Practicality? by LordKronos · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That was true for most CRTs, as the natural color of the screen is black, and it takes extra energy to generate the light to make it a brighter color. Therefore having most pixels be dark saves energy

      However, most LCD's behave the exact opposite. LCDs have a backlight, so their natural color is white. It takes energy to make the liquid crystal block out some or all of that backlight, so the more white pixels you have, the more energy you save.

    8. Re:Practicality? by rm999 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ah touche, I apparently don't know much about printers :)

      In that case, the holes are too small for me to see. Either way, the effect comes off well.

    9. Re:Practicality? by default+luser · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, but LED backlighting changes that equation yet again

      So will OLED displays, once they take over the market in [5, 10, 20, 50] years.

      Yes, in fact, a high-enough resolution LED backlight can theoretically add extra contrast to a display, while reducing power consumption. Of particular interest is producing colored backlighting to match the picture using the RGB LED arrays.

      Sure, current LED arrays have problems with lighting uniformity, but from experience, I can say the exact same thing of early flourescent backlighting (late 90s). It's only a matter of time before we can toss the inefficient flourescent backlighting of current LCDs, and move-on to something much better.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

  2. This is pointless by toby · · Score: 5, Informative

    These people don't seem aware that typefaces are usually available in many weights.

    You can save much more than this by simply changing to a lighter weight.

    (I am a typographer. But it shouldn't take one to figure this out.)

    --
    you had me at #!
    1. Re:This is pointless by reboot246 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ah, but lighter weight fonts don't have the magical prefix "eco" in front of their names.

    2. Re:This is pointless by pbhj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Shouldn't they have done this with a serif font if it is meant to save ink/toner?

      Surely all the serifs would cancel out the saving from the holes?

    3. Re:This is pointless by ArsonSmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yea, Light is so last century. It's all about the Eco now.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    4. Re:This is pointless by bugnuts · · Score: 5, Funny

      Shouldn't they have done this with a serif font if it is meant to save ink/toner?

      They started with a serif font. What's left is sans serif.

    5. Re:This is pointless by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What I meant is, they seem to have modified a screen font. If you are trying to save toner/ink, I would think that choosing a printed font would be more effective.

      I know that you CAN print a sans-serif font, but I thought that the rule of thumb was that serif fonts should be used for print.

      That said, I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about - thus why I asked the question :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:This is pointless by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 5, Funny

      That said, I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about

      Don't worry, it doesn't show.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    7. Re:This is pointless by nschubach · · Score: 3, Funny

      So "green" is the new "pink" and "eco" is the new "black"? Or is "black" the new "light"? I'm so confused.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    8. Re:This is pointless by genner · · Score: 5, Funny

      So "green" is the new "pink" and "eco" is the new "black"? Or is "black" the new "light"? I'm so confused.

      You are so dead at the next zebra crossing.

    9. Re:This is pointless by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes but lighter weights either make the font thinner and harder to read, When it prints it uses a dithering option to get the lightness sometimes giving it a choppy edge to it. This font makes sure the edges are solid allowing you to more clearly read the font.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    10. Re:This is pointless by Whiteox · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sans Serif mean that there are no feet at the bottom of letters.
      Serif means that there are feet at the bottom of letters.
      Arial is sans serif
      Times is serif.

      Serifs are easier to read on paper as the eye can follow the font easier due to the visual definition of each letter and the apparent line along the base of words.

      FYI: sans (FR)=without

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    11. Re:This is pointless by SocialEngineer · · Score: 3, Informative

      It used to be argued that serif fonts were more readable than sans in print, but recent studies have shown that it likely isn't the case. Things like x-height, width, weight, letter spacing, etc have more bearing than serif or not. (I work at a newspaper that still has a print following, and also do independent design).

      --
      "Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
    12. Re:This is pointless by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Newspapers are ususally more concerned with legibility than readability: how much can we pack on a page and still have the reader make it out at all, not how fatigued the reader is after reading hundreds of pages. Maybe you're an exception, but on the whole newpaper fonts tend to be different from book fonts in just that optimization choice.

      If you have studies that show you can pack text as densely on the page with sans-serif fonts as serif, I'd believe that. The legibility advantage of serif fonts was largely in the redundancy provided in case part of a letter broke off in the press - hardly a concern with modern equipment.

      But for reading a book's worth of text, serif fonts win hands down. I *hate* technical books where some asshole thought it would be clever to use a sans-serif font to show how technical the book was - as I grow older, this sort of thing causes me physical pain. The changing of the default Word font from serif to sans will be a source of annoyance for years to come, and no doubt cause me to toss that many more resumes on the "ow, my eyes!" pile.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    13. Re:This is pointless by Garganus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      *shudder* Created out of desperation to sidestep Adobe's closed Type 1 font standard, disseminated by Microsoft because of its cheapness, now widely used as most will overlook its comparative weaknesses; you are not alone in defaulting to it, Arial .

    14. Re:This is pointless by ari_j · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's damn near sans font.

    15. Re:This is pointless by Nazlfrag · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Try loading it up and reading a page. It's painful. A lighter weight is far more pleasant than this mess.

    16. Re:This is pointless by coolsnowmen · · Score: 2, Funny

      wingdings

    17. Re:This is pointless by jsoderba · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hence the difference between "screen font" and "print font". Sans-serif are easier to read at low resolution because the letters are less complex (which is also why they are used in headlines and signs), while serifs make it easier to track a line in long, closely spaced text like a book.

  3. Horrible by WPIDalamar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At big sizes the holes make it look horrible. At small sizes it's not all that readable as far as fonts go.

    You might as well print at 80% grey instead of black to get the same savings and have it look better.

    1. Re:Horrible by pbhj · · Score: 4, Insightful

      From the website:

      View the Ecofont

      In the picture you can see how the Ecofont is created by omitting parts of the letter. At the shown size, this obviously is not very nice, but at a regular font size it is actually very usable.

      It must look pretty horrible at smaller sizes too otherwise I think they might have shown us a sample, no?

      If they'd constructed it out of Sierpinski gasket they would have saved a lot more!

      Nice bit of viral marketing for Spranq methinks.

    2. Re:Horrible by Timmmm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not supposed to look good on screen. It is to save ink when printing.

  4. Unfortunately by brian0918 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Unfortunately, the font is only available at 120pt or higher, so it will takes twelve times the paper to print out your book report."

    I'm willing to make that sacrifice if it means saving Mother Earth!

  5. Not just for saving ink by nizo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Just imagine how many electrons could be saved if people used this font in their browser.

    1. Re:Not just for saving ink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wouldn't it actually be using MORE electrons to display all those nice glowy white spaces?

    2. Re:Not just for saving ink by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Funny

      On an LCD, you should use a dark theme in the winter so that the dark pixels soak up the extra backlight photons and convert them into heat. In the summer, go with a lighter theme that will let all of the photons out before they have a chance to run up your AC bill. Oh, and make sure you set the monitor up near a window so the extra photons can just keep right on going.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    3. Re:Not just for saving ink by nizo · · Score: 2, Funny

      The horrible part comes when you do a screen print and forget to swap the colors, thus negating all that money you were saving on toner.

    4. Re:Not just for saving ink by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just imagine how many electrons could be saved if people used this font in their browser.

      I always recycle my electrons.

    5. Re:Not just for saving ink by QuantumRiff · · Score: 2, Funny

      They have monitors that have white? Mine is only green text on a black background.

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    6. Re:Not just for saving ink by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 4, Funny

      You got green? Mine is black text on a black background. I have to guess what everybody is saying.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    7. Re:Not just for saving ink by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bonus tip: if you put everything in quote tags, it saves on black electrons.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    8. Re:Not just for saving ink by makapuf · · Score: 3, Funny

      meh, BLINK tag save FIFTY PERCENT of the electrons !

    9. Re:Not just for saving ink by ari_j · · Score: 2, Funny

      I know what you mean! The real problem with tennis, though, is that you can't really get good at it until you have genital herpes, or at least that's the image that the commercial media wants you go believe. That, and riding bicycle, are both things that you can do once you get herpes and start taking Valtrex.

  6. This is the printer's job. by booyabazooka · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The 'economy mode' on my rather old laser printer basically does this. It just sort of prints letter outlines instead of the full letter. Ecofont's solution seems like... leaky abstraction? The print-saving settings are now embedded into a document rather than determined at print time. Sounds like a terrible idea for a problem that's already been solved.

    1. Re:This is the printer's job. by tirerim · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Most economy modes (at least on inkjet printers) just print the letters lighter; this should provide additional savings over that. It may well be more readable than just outlines, too -- I find outlined text very hard to read.

  7. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by neokushan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Tell you what, when you can come up with a better way to save 20% of the ink used on a printed document, then you can say it's stupid. Until then, I think it's a cleverly simple idea.

    --
    +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
  8. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by EastCoastSurfer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have a way to save 100%. Don't print it!

  9. Holy Illegible Font, Batman! by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

    You know you were thinking it.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    1. Re:Holy Illegible Font, Batman! by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Aw darn, you beat me by 3 minutes.

    2. Re:Holy Illegible Font, Batman! by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Funny

      *swoop* You rang?

  10. But how much e-ink by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Funny

    will it save while I view documents on my ereader?

  11. The obligatory line: by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 2, Funny

    Holy Fonts, Batman!

  12. Horrible on screen by F�an�ro · · Score: 3, Informative

    Looks absolutely horrible on screen, fuzzy and irregular letters at lower font sizes.

    And at bigger sizes the holes themselves start to look jagged.

    does that improve in print?

    1. Re:Horrible on screen by Galaga88 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I printed off a quick test to an HP LaserJet 4100 from Word 2007 in WinXP, and it looks a lot better in print than on screen. 10 & 11 point being where it looks best. You can still see the holes, but they're not as glaringly obvious or jagged as when displayed on screen.

    2. Re:Horrible on screen by ortholattice · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It does print OK, even though the screen display is awful.

      The following isn't a criticism of just this font, but of almost every "modern" font. This just happens to be a particularly notable example.

      It seems to be in vogue these days to ignore the hints needed for limited screen resolution, particularly with antialiasing turned off. Try this experiment: if you're on Windows, turn off ClearType. Compare the horrible screen display of this font with the carefully thought out bit-mapped screen fonts of Arial.

      It takes time to do it right, and I guess in this hurried modern world there just isn't time for craftsmanship anymore.

      Most designers also probably assume that everyone has antialiasing turned on. I don't, because it makes things look fuzzy, sometimes with vague rainbows bleeding out of the edges. I know I'm in a minority, but still I don't think that I'm the only one who prefers the crispness of a carefully designed bit-mapped font. Off and on I've tried to get used to antialiasing, but in the end I go back. (ClearType also makes the period and comma almost indistinguishable in the 8pt Andale Mono I prefer for text editing.) Since I can usually select old-fashioned fonts with excellent bitmaps, it rarely is a problem, except that there doesn't seem to be any font with good bitmaps for Unicode math symbols.

    3. Re:Horrible on screen by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 2, Funny

      But how much ink got wasted by everybody on /. firing up their laser printers?

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
  13. In other news... by Subm · · Score: 2, Funny

    In other news several Dutch legal firms were visited by executives from Epson, HP, and Lexmark, muttering about theft of lost revenues.

  14. Dot Matrix Draft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I prefer to use Inverted Ecofont, in which everything else is removed and only the holes remain. This saves 80% of the ink, and it known to some people as "dot-matrix draft mode".

    This is new font is stupid and not news.

  15. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by megamerican · · Score: 5, Funny

    I agree. Their idea is redundant as most letters come pre-made with holes in them.

    --
    If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
  16. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 4, Funny

    f u cn rd ths u cn sv on prntg cst...

    ask me how!

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
  17. I agree many things don't need to be printed by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But for those that do need to be on paper, you can save 20% just by using a 10 point font instead of a 12 point font!

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:I agree many things don't need to be printed by ConfitureDeConfiture · · Score: 5, Funny

      12 * .8 = 9.6 LIAR!

    2. Re:I agree many things don't need to be printed by von_rick · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or modify English spellings to conform with those used by 13 y/ olds in their text messages.

      u cn save ink n papr 2 !

      --

      Face your daemons!

    3. Re:I agree many things don't need to be printed by aliquis · · Score: 3, Funny

      aawwwwwwwwwww datz riily riily smart!!!!!!!!!!!!"##

    4. Re:I agree many things don't need to be printed by severoon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      u cn save ink n papr 2 !

      What?

      --
      but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    5. Re:I agree many things don't need to be printed by EventHorizon_pc · · Score: 5, Informative

      12 point font means the font's vertical size is 12/72in = 1/6th of an inch.

      Keeping a constant aspect ratio, the ink savings would be (12*12-10*10)/12*12 = 30.56%

      For 20%, sqrt(.8)*12 = 10.73pt font. He was underestimating! ... and yet, no one cares....

    6. Re:I agree many things don't need to be printed by TheSpoom · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wouldn't you have to account for the saved horizontal space also, seeing as how more words would fit on a line?

      Yay needless specificity!

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  18. Re:Here's another cleverly simple idea: cookies by Fael · · Score: 5, Funny

    You forgot the clever part.

    Poke holes in the cookies before serving. The cookies are now 20% healthier!

  19. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by rvw · · Score: 3, Funny

    f u cn rd ths u cn sv on prntg cst...

    How... Wow... Did you learn that in SMS-class? I have a better idea however. It seems that only the upper half of the letter is necessary for reading. That would save 50%!

  20. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by D+Ninja · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As far as a company is concerned - the ink is a bigger problem. It costs a whole lot more.

  21. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by D+Ninja · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes. I love the "paperless" route. I wish I never saw a piece of "real" mail (other than computer parts) or anything else like that in my entire life. It's such a waste of time, landfill space, the killing of trees, etc, etc, etc. Paper is not a necessity except in a few (and becoming fewer) cases.

    Now, of course, try convincing people who haven't worked on a computer their whole life of that fact.

  22. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Sancho · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You know, everyone gets all up in arms about using paper. Do none of you realize that paper is a renewable resource?

  23. Dutch? Really? by Yvan256 · · Score: 3, Funny

    I would've expected such an idea to come from Switzerland.

  24. Re:gray color by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yeah, but it uses up all your gray ink.

    --
    "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
  25. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Sancho · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Most paper will be readable in 30 years. Will your digital documents?

    Microsoft Word dropped support for old document formats fairly recently, so even if you've still got a medium which is readable (cdroms in 30 years? Probably not...) you've got to worry about the file format.

  26. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Firehed · · Score: 5, Informative

    Paper trees are always re-planted after being cut down (it would get unsustainable very quickly if this didn't happen) - and generally also have a lot of recycled material in the final product. The tree-cutting damage comes from the food industry clearing the way for beef cows or corn crops.

    Never mind how insanely expensive ink is. The wasted ink is by far worse than the wasted paper. If you want to save a few sheets, shrink your print margins; either way, there's really no net gain or loss in trees.

    --
    How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
  27. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by RichardJenkins · · Score: 3, Funny

    I just installed this to have a look at it. Didn't appear in OpenOffice. OK, guess I did something wrong. Fiddled about, removed, reinstalled, regenerated font-cache.

    Nope.

    Checked another applicaion...nope no 'Ecofont'

    *30 infuriating minutes later*

    THE FONT NAME IS 'SPRANQ ECOFONT'? Dear holy frak that took me ages to find. Who the hell prefixes their goddamn font with a company name. No one. God that pissed me off. MOTHERFUCKING *VENTING* GRRRRR.

    Nice font though.

  28. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Feanturi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Go stick your head in a pig!

  29. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by jenn_13 · · Score: 2, Funny

    That assertion is based on cost figures for newspaper classified pages; drop the font size, save a ton of ink and paper. Papers all over the country have been doing this for years as their margins shrink.

    ...yet another way to save paper :)

  30. Re:I counteract this by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 2, Funny

    I print on the finest amazon rainforest paper, with several layers of black ink, and then dust the wet ink with ground up dark-roasted panda bones.

    --
    "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
  31. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Most paper is made from tree farms or recycled paper, so you're not really wasting any trees. At least that's the case in the United States.

  32. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by aliquis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have a much better one, change the quality settings in the printing dialog. There you have it ..

    I doubt it will be less readable than that crap and it will also work for all fonts and images and so on ..

  33. Coming soon... by stox · · Score: 4, Funny

    The eco-boat.

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
  34. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by KillerBob · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yah. It's renewable. But we're using it at a faster pace than it can be renewed. Wood fibre in general... it's not *just* paper that's causing problems, mind you... the construction industry is using an awful lot of wood, too. But we *do* need to reduce our consumption of wood, and it's a lot easier to reduce the amount of paper you consume than it is the amount of wood the housing industry consumes. Every little bit helps.

    --
    If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
  35. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by LingNoi · · Score: 2, Informative

    Well since the paper comes from tree farms and the trees are replanted like vegetables are my guess is the Ink.

    I also makes a good way to suck carbon out of the atmosphere. Tree eats CO2, tree becomes paper, paper becomes buried at landfill.

    It's much better then recycling paper where it has to be taken to the recycling plant to be sorted, then taken to a factory to wash the ink off using toxic chemicals and then taken to the paper factory to be used in new paper.

  36. Mod parent down! by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 5, Funny

    Really, guys. I'm not that funny.

    --
    "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    1. Re:Mod parent down! by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ironically, it was, then somebody modded it down.

      --
      "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
    2. Re:Mod parent down! by berend+botje · · Score: 2, Funny

      For us that read at -5 you're never under the radar. We see you. Always.

  37. Re:+1 PARENT. Saves paper too. by Lobster+Quadrille · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm going to make the cookies tonight. I'll let everybody know.

    --
    "The cup is in turn designed for holding hot or cold liquids, and has an open rim and closed base." --US Patent #5425497
  38. A day in the font by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I read Slashdot today, oh boy
    Four thousand holes in ecofont sans serif
    And though the holes were very small
    They had to count them all
    Now they know how many holes it takes to fill "the Albert Hall"
    I'd love to turn you on

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  39. Why it works, and why other ways are better. by DTemp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It works via dot gain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_gain), where ink tends to spread on paper. This happens with both inkjet and offset presses.

    This would be much better implemented as part of the pre-press process of the publisher. The publisher could select all headlines, and apply a "holes" pattern much more specific to their press and their ink levels.

    1. Re:Why it works, and why other ways are better. by foo12 · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is already done with flexo printing where you're working with ink coverage limitations and a stock and printing process that are prone to dot gain. Sometimes it's better to keep a .5pt solid holding rule and fill with a 98% screen with the understanding that 98% is going to gain up to 100%.

      That said, ink cost on a press run is an almost negligible part of the equation. It's really not a cost savings on even a large press run.

  40. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by aliquis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know for you but for me 99.9% of the paper I consumed won't be readable in a year, because I will have thrown it away.

    Text-files? I'm sure they will.

    PDF? No idea.

  41. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by York+the+Mysterious · · Score: 4, Informative

    Coming from a University that bought 10 pallets a year of paper and a truck load of toner, it's a big cost. Switching fonts to save 20% would be a very nice savings.

    --

    Tim Smith - Ramblings from Nerd Land
  42. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by dargaud · · Score: 4, Funny

    At work we have one of those industrial printers that puts a header page with the name of the person doing the print job in big ahead of the job. Then we more or less 'sort' them on tables for people to come an pick up. There are users with thousands of pages accumulated over a few weeks gathering dust in a huge pile.
    Since there are printing costs overruns, I suggested we should charge people by the number of pages not picked up at the end of the month. My suggestion was quickly shot down. I'll never make it into management.

    --
    Non-Linux Penguins ?
  43. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

    Unfortunately, since you don't take ink seriously, I'm guessing you are spending too much printing your newsletter and will be out of business shortly.

  44. Re:Here's another cleverly simple idea: cookies by Obfuscant · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Poke holes in the cookies before serving. The cookies are now 20% healthier!

    One Christmas I was at my Mom's house. She is a "low sodium" believer. She salts nothing at all, and has a shaker on the table for those who want some taste in their food. (She has also lost all sense of smell, which is a large component of food taste, so she doesn't notice the lack of salt at all. She's easy to buy for for Christmas presents; I go to Goodwill and get empty bottles of high-price perfume, fill them with isopropyl alcohol, and give them to her as the real stuff. She can't tell that it isn't.)

    I went to refill the shaker. She had a box of "low sodium salt" on the shelf. "20% less sodium" it said. Wow. Perhaps this was a mix of table salt and potassium chloride?

    It looked different. Table salt is usually sold in the cubic crystal form. Tiny cubes, just the way that salt will crystalize out of a concentrated solution of brine, which is part of the salt making process. This stuff was powdery.

    I looked closer at the label. Contents: sodium chloride and iodine. Typical table salt.

    To make a long story short, I realized that this company had done something to "fluff up" the normal salt crystals to make them larger and put only 13 ounces (by weight) of product in a box that normally contains 16. A "teaspoon" of this product actually contained 20% less sodium than "normal" salt, simply because it contained 20% less product by weight.

    I considered that to be false advertising, but technically, the box did contain 20% less sodium than normal table salt boxes of the same size, and by volume, it was 20% less.

  45. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by York+the+Mysterious · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sorry, but you're going to produce way more CO2 in transport and processing of that paper than is trapped in the paper. You're logic is flawed

    --

    Tim Smith - Ramblings from Nerd Land
  46. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by SolusSD · · Score: 2, Insightful

    decrease the font size by a couple points. That'll decrease the amount of ink needed *and* won't be ugly. Or, just don't print it in the first place. Most text printed these days (especially around the office) never needed to be printed in the first place.

  47. Typophile.com by PancakeMan · · Score: 2, Informative

    Typographers' discussion here: http://typophile.com/node/52616

  48. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by von_rick · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In our University, printing used to be free until 2 years ago. Since the university started charging 3 cents per printout, the total number of printouts taken in computer labs has gone down by 70%. Perhaps your univ should try that out as well.

    --

    Face your daemons!

  49. Woohoo! by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Funny

    I cal kill 20-25% more trees with one toner cartridge!

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  50. They're a marcomms company: this is a stunt by gilgongo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sigh. As the various outraged typographers here attest, this is a self-promotional stunt and has nothing to do with innovation or even typography. The clue is the first line of TFA:

    "Dutch marketing and communications company Spranq has come up with a novel and free way of slashing printer ink costs by developing a font with holes in it."

    I work for a marcomms agency as well. This is how such agencies get clients: you pull stunts like this to make yourselves look like gurus in some way, so when you go in for pitches you have lots of press clippings (clients don't read them, they just look at where they were published) so you have some kind of differentiation over your rivals. I worked for a place where we made a big fanfare about recruiting an "artist in residence" (and got lots of press) - others in our space have launched "labs" or various kinds, etc. etc.

    There's no substance in any of it. It's all just a marketing con-job and sad to say Slashdot has fallen for it (not that a marcomms agency's clients would be interested in a /. story anyway).

    --
    "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
  51. Ah, the irony by condour75 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Clearly this is one of those "let's-get-some-free-press" stories. How much extra ink will be used printing this story on page D-5 of every local newspaper's wacky news section?

  52. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by pipatron · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, as people have pointed out before, this is just a lame marketing trick from an unknown ad company, since you can just use any thinner font and get the same readability with even less ink.

    For the marketing trick to work, of course they need to spam their name.

    --
    c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
  53. As a former type designer by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 3, Insightful

    An easier way to save ink AND paper is this: use a sans serif font that has 1/2 the stroke weight and print multipage documents at a smaller size. If the stroke thickness is normally, say, 150 units, make it something like 80. Use a large X height to add to readability. Then print at 10pt instead of 12. Massive savings, and no need to resort to swiss cheese fonts which will look like crapola over 12 pt. Word.

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  54. Save both ink AND paper... by heretic108 · · Score: 2, Funny

    A bt f cre8v splng cn sv bth ink & papr. Thez 2 sntncs hv svd 31% f bth.

    --
    -- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
  55. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 3, Funny

    Save the Earth!

    Cut holes in the 20% of heads of Oil Company Executives, Bankers and Presidents!

    --
    "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
  56. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by LunarCrisis · · Score: 2, Informative

    Whoever modded that "troll" should read this.

    --
    Mr. Period: Nine is the one that's right by ten!
    Nine: One day I will kill him. Then, I will be Ten.
  57. Re:Here's another cleverly simple idea: cookies by adisakp · · Score: 3, Interesting

    20% less sodium by volume: Your Mom should try Kosher Salt Flakes. They're like salt flavored snowflakes (which fluffs up the volume) and they tend to stick to the outside of food easily so you get a salty "taste" with less (by mass) salt.

  58. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by biocute · · Score: 4, Funny

    f u cn rd ths u cn

    I blushed when I read this: "fxxx xxu cxnx, rxdx thxs xxu cxnx"

  59. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by mosb1000 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Deforestation is almost exclusively the result of agricultural expansion. It makes no sense to say that saving paper = saving forests.

    Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the matter:

    In simple terms deforestation occurs because forested land is not economically viable. Increasing the amount of farmland, wood extraction and, infrastructure expansion are all important factors in driving deforestation in different regions with mining also an important cause. There is considerable interplay between these factors. For example logging(wood extraction) or mining requires roads to transport the timber(infrastructure expansion) and farmers use these roads to move into previously unreachable areas of forest (agricultural expansion). The ultimate cause of most deforestation is increased food production. Cattle, permanent crops, shifting cultivation and colonization are all equally important to global tropical deforestation

    Even when deforestation is the result of lumber harvesting activities, it is primarily because the roads used to access the lumber make it easier for farmers to move in and use the land.

    While forest area is on the decline in the US, it is due to urbanization, not timber harvesting activities (the same article discusses this).

  60. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

    Just color copies/prints cost my midsized employer $200K last year and that didn't include the cost of paper. In this economy that's a real target for cost savings. If you can save 20% that's about enough to employ one low level person or enough to give an extra 1% cost of living adjustment to a department. As long as the results are legible on a marginal printer is there any reason NOT to do it?

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  61. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've seen multiple presentations by naturalists specifically calling out the fact that North America is significantly more forested than it was before European settlers came. One big factor is the wholesale clearing of much of the great plains.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  62. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by kimvette · · Score: 2, Informative

    On that note, check out their license page:

    The inventive designing method of the Ecofont - ommitting spaces in each
    letter to decrease the black surface of the letter and thus save ink by printing - is intellectual
    property of SPRANQ creative communications, Utecht, The Netherlands. Imitation of this technique
    is prohibited.

    They pretty much fucked their own limitation over by releasing this under GPL (which they had to do, starting out with a GPL typeface to begin with). By releasing under the GPL they cannot place such restrictions on use, forking, renaming, imitating, etc. by definition. You can do what you want with this, so long as it remains GPL.

    In summary: imitate at will, per the license they released this under.

    On a completely unrelated note: since this is obviously just a "green" publicity stunt, where are the "donations" going?

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  63. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Nikker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not really the idea of the holes it's just coming up with another way to give less ink / toner from the cartridge. These guys want to stop and go with the usage giving you 100% black / color with small 0% black spots all over it. This is the extreme idea but can also be solved by lowering the black from 100% all the time to about 80% and have a clean looking image / text printout which would likely be more pleasing on the eyes.

    Even evaluating different brightness values of the paper you buy will increase contrast and likely lower your acceptable black level for increased savings.

    --
    A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
  64. Re:Here's another cleverly simple idea: cookies by Obfuscant · · Score: 2
    Why not give her something she'd actually get some use out of, instead of playing to her weakness? I'm sure that if she wanted isoprop, she'd apply it without the trickery.

    Because she thinks that I'm giving her something expensive and nice and it costs me almost nothing. Buying her stuff she could use might actually cost some real dough.

    Yes, if she wanted to apply isopropyl alcohol she'd do it herself.

    No, I don't really do this. As a gag one year I bought a large bottle of ipa and pasted on a fake Chanel No. 5 label. She thought it was funny.

  65. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Surt · · Score: 2, Funny

    I find I have to print like 500X over to make the ink raised enough for a braille reader. On the plus side, they don't know they have inky fingers.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  66. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by qw0ntum · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, but paper production is also a very energy intensive process, and the byproducts of production are fairly polluting. Just because it is "renewable" doesn't mean using it can be done without limits. There is more to the equation than just "we can grow more of the primary raw material", there is an environmental, social, and economic balance that has to be considered.

    --
    'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
  67. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Skrapion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First of all, the idea that everything required for the class should be included in the price of the class is ridiculous. Books aren't included. Neither are pens, paper, or laptops.

    Second, what difference does it make whether you pay for your printing at the printer or in your tuition? Theoretically speaking, if nobody abused their printing privileges, the cost would average out and the cost to you would be the same either way.

    However, if charging three cents at the printer reduces abuse, then you, as a student, actually save money. Even if you're one of the students that's abusing your printing privileges, you'd still save money because you don't have to pay for all the other students that are abusing their privileges. Putting all the cost in the tuition causes the tragedy of the commons.

    My college actually charged nine cents per page; it was really no big deal. Although I'm curious if the GP meant three cents per page, or three cents per job. If it's per page, the 70% drop doesn't surprise me too much, but if it's per job, then that's pretty amazing.

    --
    The details are trivial and useless; The reasons, as always, purely human ones.
  68. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Skrapion · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Mod parent interesting, insightful, and informative.

    It seems counter-intuitive, but if we stopped using wood completely, then forested land would no longer be profitable! If that happened, people would just replace the forested land with something that is profitable, like housing developments or farms.

    I agree that deforestation is a big problem, particularly in third-world countries, but reducing paper use could reduce reforestation, which would cause more harm than good.

    I think it's more important that we focus on passing laws to protect natural habitats; when forced to, logging companies have no problems making the most with the land they own.

    --
    The details are trivial and useless; The reasons, as always, purely human ones.
  69. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Tokerat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who the fuck prints out their entire inbox? If that is happening, the problem isn't deforestation, it's wasteful morons.

    --
    CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
  70. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by AvitarX · · Score: 2, Informative

    I probably wasn't clear, but the $90 (3000 pages at .03/page) was over 12 months of printing for the both of us (I probably printed under 150 pages though). This was not just the final prints, but every draft the was marked up and reviewed, sometimes 2 or 3 a night. I got this number by printing a total life-time page when the toner ran out after a year of ownership (probably a month into the second year of classes actually).

    I know that expenses can be tight, but $10/month is a very minor cost of college, and even the most desperate of students can probably come up with it. If not then they are struggling so much every day that it will probably not be what puts them over the top.

    As long as it is not coin-op where it needs to be paid at the moment I think it would be fine.

    Besides, if printing went down 70% I bet it reduced the cost of computer lab fees (or kept them down) tacked onto tuition as a separate line item. In that sense everybody wins (financially), because the cost of printing supplies just went down for every student.

    Students are often expected to purchase and turn-in workbooks that cost $15-$30, this a budget tech college, if students can be expected to spend $15 on a workbook they find out about after the fact, can't they be expected to pay $6 for a couple drafts of a 30 page report, and some other stuff?

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  71. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by AvitarX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Post script is 24 years old, I bet PDF keeps a similar track record.

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  72. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by von_rick · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm curious if the GP meant three cents per page, or three cents per job. If it's per page, the 70% drop doesn't surprise me too much, but if it's per job, then that's pretty amazing.

    The cost is 3c/page. Its not surprising at all. Just the fact that printing out a Dilbert cartoon to put on their corkboard would now cost them money, keeps people from printing things that aren't essential.

    --

    Face your daemons!

  73. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Skrapion · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They pretty much fucked their own limitation over by releasing this under GPL (which they had to do, starting out with a GPL typeface to begin with).

    Actually, Bitstream Vera isn't GPL and has no copy-left clauses.

    The clause that you pointed out in Spranq's license is rather questionable, though. It makes it sound like they own a design patent on the font. That would also allow them to control derivative works, even if Bistream Vera was released under the GPL (v.2 or earlier).

    I couldn't find anything that supported the patent theory, though. If it's true, that would certainly sour their slashvertisement. If it's false, then I'm pretty sure their patent is unenforceable, since you don't actually need to use the font to emulate its design.

    --
    The details are trivial and useless; The reasons, as always, purely human ones.
  74. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by Gerald · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...forestation rates have been on the rise in North America for over 100 years.

    What about the rates over the last 200 years? 100 years ago was shortly after the railroads deforested the nation, was it not?

  75. Re:Inkjet business = New Microsoft monopoly by alienw · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Guess what: EVERYTHING you buy costs a fraction of its price to manufacture. If you don't like the price of inkjet printer cartridges, you are free to not buy inkjet printers. Printer manufacturers have found that people prefer buying cheap printers to buying expensive printers with cheap cartridges.

    If you don't like the price of inkjet cartridges, you are more than welcome to buy laser printers, all of which are far cheaper to operate than inkjets. You can buy a laser printer for 50 bucks these days. Just stop whining and demanding government handouts, it's getting a little out of hand.

  76. Publicity Stunt by blackpaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And a remarkably stupid one, though I guess it did get them some attention.

  77. Re:What a fucking stupid idea! by reddburn · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's fair, but only as long as professors are required to take every assignment in a digital form. The moment there's a class that requires a printed copy of a report, that printing better be included with the price for taking the class.

    Under "Required Materials" on my syllabus, I always put "a few dollars for printing/copying."

    --
    "Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand" - Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
  78. Burials? by bryan1945 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Will some enterprising company use this technique to reduce body size, and therefore casket and grave size, to cut burial costs?

    Or are there some holes in my idea (cha-ching!)

    Wow, that was bad even for me.

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  79. These people don't understand the GPL. by Benanov · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So didn't anyone read the license?

    That's the best part:

    In the Ecofont the following regulation is enclosed:
    Copyright (C) 2008 SPRANQ creative communications, Utrecht, The Netherlands.
    All right reserved. Ecofont is a trademark of SPRANQ creative communications.
    The inventive designing method of the Ecofont - ommitting spaces in each letter to decrease the
    black surface of the letter and thus save ink by printing - is intellectual property of SPRANQ creative
    communications. Imitation of this technique is prohibited.
    The Ecofont is distributed under GPL and based upon Bitstream Vera. The following licence
    paragraph applies...

    And then after the Bitstream Vera requirements...

    To protect the purity of the Ecofont and its communication, the further development of the Ecofont
    and the use of its technique - which includes omitting different shapes in the letters or the use in
    other font types - is only allowed if permission is granted by SPRANQ. A signed licence agreement
    can only be obtained by contacting SPRANQ (www.spranq.eu). SPRANQ is not obliged to grant
    permission. Selling the Ecofont or a variation of it to make a profit is strictly prohibited.

    I do not believe these people understand the GPL. Don't use this font, it's incorrectly licensed.

  80. 20% less words works just as well by SrWebDeveloper · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just have everyone use 20% less words in their documents, that works too, i.e.:

    MEMORANDUM

    Date: July 1, 200
    To: Harold Sr.
    : Isabel
    Subject: for Payroll Advances

    There is new procedure (to reflect) for obtaining payroll advances. I believe will find it improvement over the old, confusing. The new is as:

    1. Obtain special Form number, Request for, from your.
    2. Complete the form in all the blanks in the section of the.
    3. Have your immediate approve your request by signing on the Supervisor.
    4. Take the approved Form the receptionist in the Payroll and, Building Z, Room.

    Thank,

    Hmmm... on second thought... um, maybe not.