Slashdot Mirror
The Scope of US E-Waste
theodp writes "Every day, Americans toss out more than 350,000 cell phones and 130,000 computers, making electronic waste the fastest-growing part of the US garbage stream. A lot of the world's e-waste is exported to Guiyu, China, where peasants heat circuit boards over coal fires to recover lead (a 15" computer monitor can pack up to 7 lbs. of Pb), while others use acid to burn off bits of gold. Guiyu's willingness to deal with lead, mercury and other toxic materials generates $75 million a year for the village, but as a result. Guiyu is slowly poisoning itself with the highest level of cancer-causing dioxins in the world. The village experiences elevated rates of miscarriages, and its children suffer from an extremely high rate of lead poisoning. TIME suggests checking out recycling brokers and accredited e-stewards the next time you're ready to toss a gizmo."
that seems a little excessive to me, even for a CRT, i dont suppose the OP would like to provide some sort of reference to support it
What's wrong with you people?
This lead is then formed into figurines, painted, and sold as toys.
TV's, old computers, harddrives, broken VCR's... I don't know what to do with the stuff.
If you think one of these so called certified e-cyclers is not simply shipping the stuff of to China, think again. Every report I have seen on these outfits has traced the donated stuff overseas.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Along with more than a few penguins. And the occaisional little red devil.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Most of that 7 lbs of lead is in the glass (as an x-ray shield). The summary is wrong to imply that this lead can be recovered by heating, just like circuit board lead.
China hasn't been accepting E-Waste for at least 18 months. Now it goes mostly to West Africa.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Hi,
I am a voluntary sys admin for a mental health charity, Contact, http://www.contactmorpeth.org.uk/
We take in local donations of unwanted PCs, refurbish them and give them away to people with mental health problems, their children or their carers. Some people have told me that their free PC was a life changing event (once they'd got broadband working).
Surely in America you'd be able to start up a similar scheme for charitable donations?
HTH,
Ian
Did anyone catch the recent 60 Minutes story on this. The gist of it was that even some of the most respected e-waste companies end up exporting to China, despite their promises to do otherwise. You can watch the story HERE.
Cell providers try to get used phones off the market by setting up charity drop boxes for women's shelters with the idea being that the phones actually go to the shelters. In actual fact the phones get dumped overseas, and the charity receives a pittance for use of their name on the side of the box. Cell providers benefit because this forces people to but new phones which are tied to contracts.
There are legit phones for shelters programs, but if it says something like "only put the phone in the box, not the charger" then the phones will just end up overseas, not reused.
a simple fact that no technology comes without some cost associated. The goodies of Freon were soon frowned upon looking at effect of it on Ozone layers OR nuclear technology when it became clear that nuclear waste disposal could pose much bigger problem than it solves.
While appreciating all the technology breakthrough, I am just trying to justify my reasons to leave the urban world and live happily country side...enjoying everyday with farmers...appreciating beauty of nature. It sucks many ways, no doubt. But this kind of news just makes me feel better.
Back on topic, I guess a good drive of awareness about safety and other precautions should solve the problem of Guiyu. Some the reprocessing processes could be reviewed to reduce the exposure of toxic chemicals to other civilians.
hilarious
If they're generating millions from e-waste we throw away then why is it the wests fault that they are polluting themselves?
If they dealt with the waste in a responsible manner and took even basic precautions then they wouldn't be polluting their own villages.
How much of that $75 Million could be plowed back into making the whole process safer?
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
Guiyu's willingness to deal with lead, mercury and other toxic materials...
There's the problem. Don't do that.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
A quick Google puts the number of US cell phone users in 2005 at 208 million. A number of cell providers will give you a "free" phone every two years, and many people take advantage of that. I'd guess the cell phone number is plausible if you assume slightly less than 50% turn over rate per year and include growth in the cell phone market since the 2005 numbers were published.
I sort of gagged on the number 350,000 cell phones (130,000) computers a day? But it makes sense. in 2005 a survey found 69% of americans had cell phones. That's about 250 million users. So if mean replacement time is 2 years, that's 342K a day! Computer's last longer aparently to account for the lower discard number.
However the 7 pounds of lead in a 15 pound computer is complete BS. First most CRTs weigh about 30 pounds so this 15 pound number is perverse. If we assume that only referes to the computer itself and not the CRT we can still estimate the amount of lead using numbers from various studies:
According to this report 98% of the lead attributed to computers is in the CRT glass. (interesting the report also notes that 75% of CRTs are stored not recycled). However for a 15 pound computer system, only slightly more than half of that is the CRT. And CRT's are not made of 90% lead.
indeed this pdf article determiened that nearly all the lead in a CRT is not in the heavy panel portion but is in fact in the neck and frit seals.
most of the lead however is bound up. the leachable lead is still considerable however.
The actual amount of lead in a 27 pound CRT (19% screen) is 2.2 or less than 10%. If CRT's have 90% of the lead in a computer system then a computer is about 1% of it's weight in lead. so a 15 pound computer ought ot have about 0.15 pounds of lead not 7 pounds.
the article is BS.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
We can't get but a handful of states in the US to put deposits on bottles, much less give people incentives to actually recycle their electronics. Put a damn $50 deposit/tax on new computer sales, and THEN maybe you'll have people recycling. Hell, we have core fees on automotive parts, why not electronics?
Laws and fines rarely push people to do this type of thing, and forget the "think of the children" ads. People get off their ass and do something when it benefits them directly, and nothing speaks louder than cash in hand.
TIME suggests checking out recycling brokers and accredited e-stewards the next time you're ready to toss a gizmo.
Even better: unless it really is broken beyond repair, re-use your old stuff or give it to someone who still can get use out of it. Freecycle what you can, recycle the rest, and throw away as little as possible.
PS! Read my tagline! ;-)
"Good news, everyone!"
Exactly I highly doubt the mess they have there is brought in from the USA! Or someone is actually buying tons of crap and dumping it there.
Support Eachother, Copy Dutch Property!
Because it is wrong to send our problems to people who are not equipped to handle them. I could take the box of batteries I have been saving to recycle, walk outside and dump them in the bushes and nothing would ever happen to me as a result, but I don't do that because it would be wrong. Instead, I'll spend a few bucks on gas to drive them to a place where they can be more safely disposed of, so that my desire for the modern convenience of portable electricity doesn't end up in someone else's groundwater.
There are a lot of people who actually want this stuff, and they are willing to pay the cost of shipping/handling to get it. I've asked a few of them: Why do you want an old gadget?
(1) "I need a PC that I can experiment upon."
(2) "I am a collector of old electronics."
(3) "My camcorder broke and I need a new magnetic head to fix it."
(4) "I need a cheap laptop for typing notes."
And on and on and on. Like the old saying goes, one man's trash is another man's treasure. Rather than toss your old gadgets in the junk, sell it on ebay for 99 cents + shipping. Somebody will buy it. Recyle.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
, would that increase costs for shipping the waste there?
Not really, the stuff is inert until you start disassembling and burning stuff. What it would do is increase the cost such that Guiyu wouldn't be making so much profit selling the resulting materials. Though substantial infrastructure upgrades(IE a PROPER recycling facility) would be more efficient, but would take decades or more to return on the investment.
ecyclers would probably look for another poor nation to accept the waste
why are these ecycler moving the waste to begin with?
Let's say I'm a recycling collection facility. Doesn't matter what I take. I collect various recyclable materials, from batteries to aluminum cans to paper to whole computers and refrigerators. I don't actually recycle anything myself. What I do is collect and sort the stuff. When I have around a semi-load of it, I get on the market for this stuff, keeping in mind shipping costs, and sell it to the highest bidder(IE who's willing to pay me the most), or to the lowest for stuff where I have to pay for them to take it.
International shipping is cheap - especially since with the trade balance ships are normally quite a bit lighter on their way back to china. So Guiyu wins the bids and gets the stuff because their 'processing' is extremely cheap and they gain enough money from the resulting materials to make a profit.
then the material would stay where it started its life cycle as waste. how would it be dealt with then?
1. If it's still economically viable to recycle in a less polluting manner, then it'll get recycled
2. If the host nation STILL insists it be recycled, you'll see recycling fees tacked on to either the purchase or disposal end to deal with the added expense. Like car tires here in the USA.
3. If they don't, it'll be placed in a landfill until an economical method to recycle it comes along(or raw material expenses goes up) making it profitable to dig it out of the landfill.
I don't read AC A human right
You can't be serious? Do you really think the people working with this toxic waste know the dangers? I'm sure their government does but China isn't exactly a free society.
Time makes more converts than reason
> TIME suggests checking out recycling brokers and accredited e-stewards the
> next time you're ready to toss a gizmo.
I guess TIME doesn't watch 60 minutes.
'"This is a photograph from your yard, the Executive Recycling yard," Pelley told Richter, showing him a photo we'd taken of a shipping container in his yard. "We followed this container to Hong Kong."'
I know you're an AC and may be just trolling, but that is actually rather conscientious. It's still polluting, but at least in your own back yard.
"Good news, everyone!"
I wouldn't consider this flamebait.
I mean, it doesn't really matter what you're recycling, doesn't it make sense to reduce shipping and recycle the stuff where it can go a short distance to a facility to be turned into a user product again? IE recycle paper near paper mills/printers?
Same deal with our electronics.
I don't read AC A human right
350,000 a day? or 127,750,000 per year... as of July 2008 there are 303,824,640 people (adults and children). So these guys believe that if every person in the US has a phone, 1/3 of them toss it out every year?
Maybe someone ought to be doing something to reduce the number of phones we "retire" every year. Since most cell phone contracts in the US are 2 years, and the phone is "free" with a 2year contract, one might be able to assume that most of the US retires their phone every two years.... I know many people that, when the battery life starts to decline, find it cheaper and easier to get a new phone than to get a new battery. They just call up their cell phone provider and get a new 2yr contract extension and *voila* get a new phone.
Soon the dollar won't buy anything, let alone electronics. I wouldn't worry about it.
Send your spendthrift head of state this
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm sorry but honestly why do I care what happens to this village in China? They aren't innocent victums, they willingly bring the toxic crap in and have their citizens work on it. As soon as they want to they can stop taking shipments when they feel the health risks are too great... Until they do that, why should I feel bad for problems they have brought on themselves?
I'm sorry but honestly why do I care what happens to some village in Afghanistan? They aren't innocent victims, they willingly beat their women and their citizens. As soon as they want to they can start developing infrastructure and educating themselves when they feel that our wealth/power disparity is too great... Until they do that, why should I feel bad for problems they have brought on themselves?
It's not like they could get mad at you or anything; and even if they did, it's not like they could do anything to hurt you anyway.
Still, I'll note that they go on about this being the 'fastest growing part of the US waste stream'. First, I imagine that it's the fastest growing part of the WORLD's waste stream. Ever considered how many cellphones China has? While yes, 350k cell phones might be tossed every day, and this seems a lot, it's scare tactics. First, the growth is unsustainable. Much longer and you'd have to assume either everybody starts carrying multiple phones or starts disposing of them faster. Not incredibly likely. After all, cellphones are starting to reach the point where they already do everything people want, so they won't necessarily trade out every couple years, plus they've improved battery technology substantially - I'd imagine that a large number of replacement cell phones were because the battery wasn't lasting very long anymore.
Second, consider appliances. How many cell phones does it take to equal a fridge? Figure a fridge lasts 20 years. That means with a 2 year lifespan for cellphones, you'd only toss 10 cellphones per fridge. Maybe 20 if you figure on being a 2 phone family. The fridge is still a LOT more material.
Still, doesn't mean we can't do more by making chargers more universal, remembering that the batteries are replaceable, and get the cell phone companies to stop locking their phones up so tight that poorer people can get a donated phone, maybe spend $20 on a new battery and add a prepaid plan chip. After all, reuse beats recycling in the chart I was taught - Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.
I don't read AC A human right
Oddly enough, I did a research paper on this subject my last semester. The problem with e-waste being exported is mainly that there is no real guidelines for exporting electronic waste. Most of the material is considered hazardous because of the metals and BFR's used in manufacturing.
There are companies who say they recycle the products and then just ship the junk over-seas. It's an "Out of sight, out of mind" type of thinking that is impacting other places around the world. Not only that, but most consumers have no idea of what to do with their old electronics. They (clearly an assumption here) probably know the materials need to be recycled but have no idea of how to achieve such a thing. So it ends up sitting in the closet, or storage, or gets thrown into the municipal waste. Of course take back programs are becoming increasingly more common and are now required (I believe).
As for getting the stuff recycled, when someone tries to recycle their old product, they often get charged a recycling fee, such as at Circuit City or Staples. Dumping is 'free' while recycling costs money. Of course none of these things are going to be fixed over night. Just how can this be solved?
I've always said, companies should be responsible for the entire lifecycle of any product they produce, including its safe disposal. The way things are now, they are allowed to just dump that cost onto the public, and everyone has to pay the price of mass-consumption, which is mass-disposal.
If your company's monitor costs $30 to dispose of properly, that cost should be your company's responsibility. Of course, the company will just pass the cost on to the customer, but that's OK, since it's the customer who's wallet is hit, not the general public. Products that are toxic and cause cancer if they seep into the groundwater SHOULD cost people much, much more, to disincentivise companies from making them in the first place. Maybe higher prices for toxic difficult-to-dispose goods would get people to repair things instead of just tossing them into the bin. At least the extra cost would get them to consider that whatever they are buying is expensive to toss into the Earth.
As it is now, people just buy the cheapest product they can find without regard for the damage it does to the environment, because that damage is done to "those other people somewhere". Make that damage hit their wallet, and you'll see change.
Most of those cultures prefer to be left-alone. They don't want us interfering with how they live, anymore than we would want a bunch of Bible-thumpers forcing us to go to Church every Sunday. Although I disagree with Afghanistan culture (and Arab culture in general), I don't think I should be telling other people how to live. I am not a Bible-thumper.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Let's just pick an appropriate spot in the worlds oceans, and build one of these with the E-Waste: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_reef
Divers would love to see baby Moray eels popping out of the slot in old VCRs.
I wouldn't worry about the hazardous material being toxic. Many of the oceans' species are millions of years old, they know how to deal with toxic waste.
Probably.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
This village has traditionally been an agrarian society. Therefore these citizens DO have a choice; they have the choice to stick with a traditional farming lifestyle.
They choose to take-apart lead-filled CCAs and CRTs because they have made a *voluntary* decision to abandon their farming culture and become factory workers. I believe in Pro-choice and their right to make that choice.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I used to do that too, but now eBay in their infinite greed, is forcing everybody to take PayPal.. Which means the fact that you put "AS-IS" in your auction description, and the fact that there are NO returns, is ignored by PayPal, who cheerfully refunds the buyers money, and usually you are out your item AND your $$$. When I sold "as-is" electronics, I described the item extensively, took lots of pix, and took checks/mo's only... Worked fine, from 1998 to now... Now with the inmates running the asylum at eBay, I'm steering clear of it until/if the eBay Board of Directors finally say "enough" and can JD..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
You failed to detect the sarcasm in the post.
More to the point, you are responsible for throwing the stuff away in the first place. So pretending they brought the problems on themselves is pathetic evasion. You're just defending your right to pollute. Somebody still has to clean up after you.
Broken window fallacy much ?
It can be recovered by what amounts to pressure washing, I don't see why they couldn't get it from heating. My guess is that lead dust from CRTs isn't nearly as valuable as solder from circuit boards which is much easier to reclaim and far more valuable to resell.
I think you should take at look at this other discussion first.
And if a parent tells you it's ok to shoot their child with a BB Gun it's perfectly on the level because it's not your fault the parent doesn't love their child?
Don't forget that the FCC-Mandated digital TV switch will likely result in tens of millions of perfectly good televisions going into the trash heap this year. Legally enforced obsolescence has some side effects.
On one hand, it is obvious that criminals are running these recycling operations and there needs to be stronger environmental regulations to make sure it is done safely. The situation in China is shocking and particularly there are technologies avialable to keep the toxins out of the environment, but they are not being used. Recycling done properly can be done safely and cleanly with no release of waste. We should not give up recycling, we desperately need to continue recycling, but we need to make sure it is done safely. It is possible that the earths supply of iron and copper will be depleted by the end of this century. We need to start reusing and recycling all copper and iron, if we dont there could be a major economic disaster as these become scarce and hard to obtain. We need to develop the technical expertize to recycle 100% of metals cleanly and safely, reusing them and keeping them out of landfills.
So you are running Fedora 10 on your 486SX?
Didn't think so.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Can be seen here
== First cross river, then insult alligator.
I get asked about that at work just about every day. It's fine, people are just curious about what's going on, but do you ask every police officer you see if they execute people in cold blood? Or every biker if they're a drug smuggling gang member?
I truly appreciate this kind reporting, but this is an update to two older videos, this isn't a new problem, and not everyone is part of the problem regardless of what the news would like to tell you.
It is yet to see how effective this law will be. Quick research reveals that currently virtually no elextronics adhere to this law, and that it may cause huge reliability issues (tin solder issues).
Tin is also not a great thing to have in your water, BTW.
However it is a good first step.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
The problem is that there are also junk hoarders. People who fill their homes with this technology that they managed to get another year or two of use out of, and then it ends up in the garbage.
I for one hoard my E-waste until I find something better to do with it than tossing it out. So far I got a radio, a cable and DSL modem, a netgear router (Don't by this crap, it breaks fast), a CRT monitor (which actually works and I have used it when one of my LCDs burned out), an LCD monitor, a laptop, and an old desktop from which I still scavenger parts sometimes.
1) Do you really think that the people of this village wake up in the morning and think "By gum, I can't wait for another day of handling toxic materials with no protection whatsoever. My only hope is that those meddling foreigners, and their insipid health and safety standards, don't rob me of this, my most beloved pastime!"
Someone else posted this video, but I'll link to it again as it shows the village. These people aren't working in some factory, they are in huts with dirt floors.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4586903n
2) If we really wanted to leave these people alone, perhaps we shouldn't be sending them tonnes upon tonnes of toxic materials?
To answer "And I care why?" - Well because all of us consumers of electronic devices are partially responsible for the suffering of these people. Because this computer you are sitting at right now may very well end up in a village in China where it will poison people.
... they're Chinese, not stupid.
Yes, I do think that anyone who breathes vapors that burn their nose and throat in the course of their work thinks, "This is probably not good for me." I suspect that when the water is so polluted that it is black and smells and tastes foul, that people think, "I bet this has to do with the things I've been dumping in it." It's quite possible that when the miscarriage rate is high and that children are falling ill frequently that people are able to conclude that these illnesses probably have something to do with the unnatural tastes and odors that they are experiencing every day.
Nonetheless, these villagers decide that in the interest of work they will carry on in this way. I'm sure you've read stories of the factory workers that suffer long work days with few or no breaks. These workers are free to go at any time, but they choose not to in order to have work.
This is a Chinese problem, caused by the action or inaction of Chinese people, in China. Like it or not, it is no one's business but theirs to solve.
Most of those cultures prefer to be left-alone.
A schoolyard bully prefers to be left alone too.
http://outcampaign.org/
Look the other way, my dearest troll: Why should the Chinese care if the toys you bought yourself are poisoning your kids?
All this junk is made in China.....it's simply being returned to it's point of origin.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
At least the people in the village are developing resistance to cancer causing chemicals and lead poisoning at an accelerated rate... good for them, I guess. And maybe in the future we can harvest their genes to develop a cure for cancer.
How are we supposed to contact you? :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
The scope of course is immense, as is the US consumption.
(both in absolute and in relative terms)
So what is the news here?
*Everybody* needs to reduce their waste footprint.
These guys have a video of hard drives being shredded http://tbfcomputing.com/main/content/view/15/29/
Every goddamn device that comes out absolutely must have a connector or power cord that is incompatible with every other device. For example, the Thinkpad T43 and T60 have incompatible power cords (not to pick on Lenovo; it's just typical). This lack of standards leads to the junking of millions of electronic items every year.
When your cell phone battery burns out, it costs almost as much as a new phone to replace it. Often, a battery for a phone more than a year old is simply unobtainable, and a perfectly usable phone goes in the trash. There is a dizzying array of battery and power cord types. They come in an endless array of forms and types, all of which are mutually incompatible. Power cords often contain transformers that are packed with nasty chemicals. That we throw so many of them away unnecessarily every year is criminal.
The FCC needs to get with standard boards such as ANSI and IEEE to create standards for connectors and power cords for small electronic devices.
Were all electronic appliances to work like this, you would have to have an electrician come install a different plug for every device (TV, fridge, microwave, dishwasher, blender, griddle, desk lamp, alarm clock, radio, etc) that you own.
The current system in large part owes to corporate greed. Companies are motivated by the ability to charge exorbitant prices for their one-of-a-kind accessories. The Obama administration should step in and implement a "green" measure that would quickly make us all better off.
I'd mod you up if I had the points.
This is the same mentality that people use to justify tossing garbage onto the street when there's a trash can one block further, or leaving your tray at the fast food table even though you'll pass the trash on your way out.
That said, it seems the e-waste getting to China is coming from people who were conscientious enough to not throw it in the garbage. May have even paid out-of-pocket for the recycler to take it.
Sad that an accreditation program has to be implemented, and even more government overhead to manage it. One more mark against the "the free market will take care of it" mantra; no it won't, it only gets it out-of-sight and out-of-mind, ending with the poorest of the poor.
The HowStuffWorks article Why do CRT monitors contain lead? has an explanation The thick glass of the vacuum tube of CRT contains the lead in order to improve optical properties and shielding from the radiation of the electron gun. The lead amounts to 25% of the volume of the glass.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Doing a little Googling, I ran into this PDF.
http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file30300.pdf
Only the neck and funnel of the tube are infused with lead. The only way to separate it is through smelting or electrolytic action. But the paper does seem to support what you just said. It's not economically viable to recycle lead from CRTs.
Life is not for the lazy.
Ok, I'll bite. Why should they? Caveat Emptor. You as a parent bought something without knowing what it was. That is YOUR fault. We collectively decided that certain things were not acceptable in our marketplaces and created things like the FDA to be watchdogs for violations of those standards, but ultimately its the parent's responsibility for what a kid has, be it regarding toxicity or stupidity.
What are the alternative jobs available?
Perhaps slowly poisoning yourself is preferable to whatever else is available. If there are no other jobs that pays as much, and if recycling allows you to feed your family and keep your children going to school, wouldn't you do it?
Yeah, the old process involved using a cutter to separate the front from the funnel while under a constant spray of water to keep lead dust from killing people, though I believe I misspoke and they actually leave the leaded section leaded until it's reprocesses. The front section is typically vacuumed or washed out to remove the phosphorus powder (which is a bastard to clean up when you break one sometimes) and then different glasses are separated and graded before being sent to smelters or glass to glass recyclers.
Most newer methods of seen involve updraft systems that basically keep the air moving away from any personnel while the cutting and breaking is done, although in my experience many places using this method don't appropriately maintain their ventilation systems which are prone to clogging (and then becoming completely useless, even though if you try to check it by hand you can still feel the air current)
Virtually no one is using the millions of 386 and 486s out there. At some point, the items sold on eBay will end up being effectively worthless, and the question is, what then?
One way to increase recycling is to pay people to go around scavenging recyclable materials from litter, trash cans, etc. To do this cost-effectively, though, you don't really want to pay them more than a few bucks an hour, certainly not the minimum wage. So, enter the CRV, a way of paying bums a (very low) commission to do the work.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
To answer "And I care why?" - Well because all of us consumers of electronic devices are partially responsible for the suffering of these people. Because this computer you are sitting at right now may very well end up in a village in China where it will poison people.
Wait until the Ubuntu zealot crowd gets wind of this... "Use Ubuntu, save an old computer and you are SAVING THE CHILDREN!!!"
(posted from Kubuntu 8.04)
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
It seems "recycling" is a gimmick is at best delaying the inevitable. So once Bob in Africa can no longer the old Motorola I donated to some freecycling group, he's going to throw it away. How does this really help the environment aside from making the original donator know he's not going to be the one directly throwing the phone away?
Even if we tried to recycle the plastic (as in melt it down or whatever), wouldn't that cause worse emissions?
A while ago I was responsible for disposing of a number of old computers and CRT's in California. Both my boss and I had a strong preference for donating it to charitable causes, but as it turns out, I had a significant amount of trouble *giving* the stuff away, to *anyone*, for free--they simply didn't want it. Even the charitable organization I contacted didn't want it. Finally we wound up getting rid of them when someone else in the company held a yard sale and was able to sell them.
Why is it, that during the election....people were saying "Oh...you shouldn't vote for/against him due to his color", or if you did you were racist one way or the other.
Now that he's elected....why are new now singing praises to the US people that we elected a black man?
C'mon people, if you want a color blind society...at least try to stay consistent.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Your missing the point. We aren't dumping it there. They are asking us for it and doing shit with it. In other words, no one is forcing them to take the refuge or to do anything with it. They volunteered to take it on because they themselves see a profit or some other value from it. No one is dumping anything there because they specifically asked for it. It doesn't matter where it came from or what happens with it, they requested it.
What happens when someone comes around and asks you for those batteries because they can recycle them? Is it wrong to give it to them?
Comparing this to dumping toxic wastes into the bushes just doesn't fit.
ye syes we will pay them wiht worthless american money that they all end up lending back to the usa
So your evil plan is to pay them back, with interest? How nefarious.
I rebuild old machines, install Ubuntu, and give them away to people who need an email-and-web-and-maybe-openoffice machine.
So far this year I have given away two Ubuntu laptops and 1 desktop machine.
If you have old kit that you aren't using, and are willing to pay shipping, please contact me
larryish@gmail.com
So the European solution is; process it yourself. It even pays the bills (just because of the metals in it). Some Dutch companies are actually specialized in this kind of refurbished works.
Support Eachother, Copy Dutch Property!
This resource CAN be recovered. What is needed is for a little bit of RD to be done to figure out how to automate the recover of resources and stored for later use, or simply sold. It is crazy that the west buys products from China, and then pays to ship back the "trash" when it contains USEFUL resources.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
>>>usually you are out your item AND your $$$
Spoken like a person who knows absolutely nothing about Paypal. (1) I've sold AS IS items, and Paypal rejected the buyer's claim. And (2) Yes buyers can get back their money on false-advertised goods, but not until AFTER they return the item and can prove it's been returned (tracking). The buyer doesn't get to keep the item.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
I'm sorry but honestly why do I care what happens to projects in the inner city? They aren't innocent victums, they willingly bring in crack and sell it to their residents. As soon as they want to they can stop buying crack when they feel the health risks are too great... Until they do that, why should I feel bad for problems they have brought on themselves?
More to the point, you are responsible for throwing the stuff away in the first place.
I think you're missing something here. The things happening to this village in china are the direct result of throwing things away responsibly. The electronics tossed in with the regular trash are /not/ causing them their problems - it is the stuff that is getting recycled, because they are the ones doing the recycling.
FTFA:
If you're part of the 20% trying to do the right thing by recycling your e-waste, there's something else to worry about. Old phones and computers can be dismantled to get at the useful metals inside, but doing so safely is time-consuming. Thus, many electronics recyclers ship American e-waste abroad, where it is stripped and burned with little concern for environmental or human healt
GP was a jackass, and he completely misses the mark, as you seem to be doing. As long as the Chinese government is willing to allow this to happen, properly disposing of your waste contributes to the problem.
lead does not migrate. All this does is make a future gold mine for whoever is smart enough to own the land and hold on to it till the metals are valuable enough.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Interesting article but at least there is one state doing something about e-waste. Oregon E-Cycles is a new statewide program that began January 1, 2009. It provides free recycling of computers, monitors, and TVs. The program is financed by electronics manufacturers and jointly implemented with the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality, who maintains a list of manufacturers' brands and compliance status. Oregon retailers may only sell those brands that are listed as pending or compliant. For more information about the program, go here: http://www.oregonecycles.org/
Agrisea Tsunami - Epyc Servers... https://agrisea.net/products
Is it wrong to give it to them?
That's a good question. Let's ask Dr. Kevorkian, he knows all about giving people what they asked for.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Some people just aren't that intelligent and/or informed. We dump shitloads of CO2 into the environment but a lot of people still don't make the connection with global warming. People that do recognize the effects of global warming still tend to drive cars, use electricity, and heat their homes despite the negative impact on the environment.
It's not really a choice then is it? It's a matter or survival.
Time makes more converts than reason
Actually, Kevorkian never got into trouble for giving people what they asked for. He got into trouble for flipping the levers and doing it for him. In Europe, it's perfectly legal and in most countries, their government medical literally put you out to pasture when a doc decides that your illness isn't worth treating. In Oregon or Washington state(good ol US of A), assisted suicide is legal. They call it the death with dignity law.
So yea, Dr. Kevorkian did give people what they asked for. However, giving it to them wasn't the problem, doing it for them was.
That's fine. We have some places in the US that claim to do that too. My point wasn't that we couldn't or shouldn't, it was that we weren't forcing anything on them. They were willing to do something we needed done and it was voluntary by those people.
If the Dutch want our waste, I'm sure something could be done to make that happen too. And if they did take it, it wouldn't be us dumping it or forcing them or anything against their will.
A few years ago, I breached the question of the digital transition for television and its inevitable environmental impact as hundreds of millions of TV sets go this route: http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/21/2128220.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. Actually, judging from this article, we've not only ignored the iceberg, but invited it in for a hot cup of tea, and asked how many people it would like to kill while ignoring the sinking ship entirely.
It's sad that seven years down the line, the obvious severity of the issue has not only gone ignored, but even condoned to date. Hell, even as I write this, I'm on a 5 year old Tablet PC that I also use for graphics (using an Intel graphics chipset, *gag*), most of my electronics are over 5 years old. What's the oldest electronic devices you use today, hmmmmm?
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
I agree. I've loked at the Time's slideshow and googled some more pics of the place. It a frigging GEEK HAVEN. I've been searching for a 5.25 360kb drive for the past year, failed and had to remod a 720k to get it to work on a XT clone I'm restoring. These drives are really hard to come by overhere, tho I've been told people mostly hunt for their servo motors to use in robotics experiments.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
It's only fair considering most of this trash was made in China to begin with.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
Everywhere I have lived....you still just throw the tv/monitor out in the trash like anything else and they pick it up curbside and haul it away....
Hell, if there IS a recycling place for stuff like that in the city...I have no clue where it would be.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Yeah...in many ways, CA has fucked things up for the rest of the states. Because of them, it is getting damned hard to get a car you can modify, with after mkt. exhausts and all that have not had performance sucked out of them...due to needing to be CARB law friendly or something like that. It sucks because the rest of the country doesn't have the special needs CA does (smog, etc)...yet the manufacturers cater to their needs, and just make all cars and such based on their needs. Cheaper I guess.
I wouldn't want to live out there...I hear that the cops can pull you over just to inspect your exhaust system...certainly not many of my cars or bikes in the past would pass....I like to mod my car...at least you can still do it in many other states, but it is getting a little more difficult. At least in some places I live..they don't do any kind of sniff test....and some places dont' do inspections at all.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
"I'm sorry but honestly why do I care what happens to projects in the inner city? "
Most of us don't care about them. They have the same chances as anyone else - if they worked hard they could make something of their lifes. Clearly they can't be bothered so thats their problem, they can stay where they are - they're not getting my pity or charity money. I'll save that for people in developing countries who don't have opportunities like everyone in the west does, don't get hand outs for deliberately doing nothing, don't shove drugs up their nose instead of working and don't consider only being able to afford a 29 inch flat screen instead of a 40 inch one poverty. F*ck the projects and the losers who live in them.
And no , I'm not trolling, those are my views. Take them or leave them.
Title=Body
They have the same chances as anyone else - if they worked hard they could make something of their lifes. Clearly they can't be bothered so thats their problem
Clearly they have the same chances as anyone else
/sarcasm
I came from a very good public school district and used to wonder what all the fuss was about people not liking public school. I recently had the opportunity to talk to a school teacher who taught at a school that was split between my school district and a school district that encompasses some poorer communities. She happens to teach in the poorer district portion of the school. She said the difference between the quality of education between the two school districts just within this one building is like night and day as far as the resources that are available and quality of output from the students. Things that she would have to deal with is kids having immense pressure from their parents to do well not for academic reasons but because if they do well they would get free pizza which their parents expected them to bring home to help feed the family. Something like that happening in my school district was unfathomable thus I was never exposed to that reality.
This is just the tip of the iceberg and only dealing with the differences in educational opportunities. So if you can have the same chances as anybody else when playing with a loaded die, then yes I guess people in the inner city "have the same chances."
Anyway back to topic. I was trying to make light of the situation in China because I thought using a situation that's closer to home would give people some perspective, obviously I missed my mark by a wide margin.
Oh boo hoo.
There are these things called "books" which the kids can read if they want to which will teach them what they need in most cases. And if they can't afford them there are these amazing places called "libraries" where they can go.
If someone really wants to succeed they will.
If someone really wants to succeed they will.
I'm sure you're speaking from the first-hand experience of overcoming adversity of growing up in an innercity environment and all that it entails by going to a library and learning what you needed to succeed so that you could brag about it on slashdot today.
http://www.viceland.com/int/v14n9/htdocs/ctrl.php?country=us for another article to rtf
"oovercoming adversity of growing up in an innercity environment"
Wheres my violin when I need it?
The only adversity in the inner city is the bone idleness of its inhabitants.
No, I'm not missing the point.
Surely the point is to avoid waste entirely. If you buy products that have cleaner materials in the first place, that is better than buying products which you know will end up being unsafely recycled. Relying on someone else to clear up after you, however conscientious you are about recycling is just "out of sight out of mind".