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Confusion Reigns As Analog TV Begins Shutdown

As TV stations across the country switch off their analog signals, uncertainty reigns. Some 691 stations will have converted to digital broadcasting by midnight tonight (some interpreted the mandate as going digital by Feb. 17, not during Feb. 17, and shut down yesterday). This represents about a third of TV broadcasters nationwide. No one can say how many of the estimated 5.8 million households unready for the transition are in areas served by the stations that are switching now. The FCC added to the uncertainty by imposing extra conditions, making it unclear until last Friday exactly which stations would be switching at the beginning of the transition period. The article quotes a former analyst at Barclays Capital who said the whole process has been "botched politically."

434 comments

  1. My TV is still up by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hmmm, my programming source still seems to be up.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    1. Re:My TV is still up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      So is mine http://eztv.it

    2. Re:My TV is still up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well for those interested, 1-888-CALL-FCC. Posting anon, cause I work at that hotline. : ) It's a hotline to help with the switch, advise on Converter Boxes, and help with hooking it up.

    3. Re:My TV is still up by Ihmhi · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      That chick in the top banner, is her name Tivo by any chance?

    4. Re:My TV is still up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 Funny.

      (fuckin' idiot mod)

    5. Re:My TV is still up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

      what banner? slashdot has banners?

    6. Re:My TV is still up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So is mine: http://tv.torrents.ro/

    7. Re:My TV is still up by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I have no idea why ou were marked informative.

      "Offtopic" would have been more appropriate since bittorrent, cable, or satellite watchers were unaffected. The DTV transition is specifically about over-the-air viewers.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    8. Re:My TV is still up by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Informative

      I was going for "funny"...

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    9. Re:My TV is still up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow, dumbass mods. click the goddamned link and take a look at the picture.

  2. Once again... BFD by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why the heck are we getting a story posted on this almost daily? Who cares? I've read the threads, and it's not a big deal. Anyone with half a brain will be fine. Anyone else, well, maybe there are survival of the fittest selection standards still hitting us, on occasion. I don't see that as a bad thing.

    1. Re:Once again... BFD by Chabo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't see why the deadline had to be pushed back any further. Even if it did, I don't see any reason why the deadline became a "dead-range". It should've been all-or-nothing, and that's what it was intended to be.

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    2. Re:Once again... BFD by Who+Is+The+Drizzle · · Score: 3, Funny

      But...but...but they might miss American Idol, The Bachelor or Dancing With The Stars!!!!

    3. Re:Once again... BFD by PeanutButterBreath · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why the heck are we getting a story posted on this almost daily? Who cares?

      WTF? This is like Y2K, except TV is actually important!

    4. Re:Once again... BFD by bcong · · Score: 5, Informative

      The idea behind pushing back the deadline was so that the current coupons(which were all given out) had time to expire. They could then create new coupons so people who missed out the first time could get a chance at a coupon, and thus their free converter. Or that's how I read it.

    5. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      But...but...but they might miss American Idol, The Bachelor or Dancing With The Stars!!!!

      You obviously missed the part where he said

      Anyone with half a brain will be fine

    6. Re:Once again... BFD by Niris · · Score: 2, Funny

      Survival of the fittest? Hrm. I find something funny in keeping a television signal in the home making someone more fit.

    7. Re:Once again... BFD by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      And then there are those of us who use cable and are unaffected anyway. Yep, our HDTVs will continue to get the crappy low-quality signal until we upgrade to Time Warner's "HD package"! Yay!

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    8. Re:Once again... BFD by tenco · · Score: 1

      What's TV?

    9. Re:Once again... BFD by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 1

      That IS funny. But if those too stupid to figure this out LEAVE their couch, it might kill them! Thus, hopefully, removing them from the possible (and most likely accidental) gene pool!

    10. Re:Once again... BFD by LandDolphin · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Are you surprised that you would have to pay more for a HD signal vs. the "crappy low-quality" signal you currently get? Were you also surprised that you had to pay more for a HDTV vs. a "crappy low-quality" TV?

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    11. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But...but...but they might miss American Idol, The Bachelor or Dancing With The Stars!!!!

      Don't forget other timewasters like the local and national news (such as it is) and emergency communication (i.e. during a natural disaster or some such).

    12. Re:Once again... BFD by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      TV / ti vi abbrev for transvestite / transvestt; tranz-/ n. a person, typically a man, who derives pleasure from dressing in clothes appropriate to the opposite sex.

    13. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Survival of the fittest? Shoot, if only the people who can't figure out the TV switch actually would die out...unfortunately, the rest of us just get to hear them complain instead of watching them go extinct.

    14. Re:Once again... BFD by tmbailey123 · · Score: 1

      I have the basic analog cable pkg (Time Warner I think). We just purchased our first HDTV in Nov 08. I was pleasantly surprised to find the local network feeds, (CBS,NBC,FOX,ABC) were HDTV signals even over the coax cable. The other "cable" channels are still low def feeds.

    15. Re:Once again... BFD by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Exactly, and that was explicitly stated by the administration as the reason. Most tv broadcasts are trite and unimportant; but there are the occasional broadcasts that are very, very, important.

    16. Re:Once again... BFD by Gilmoure · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ah, that explains that startrek.tv usenet site.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    17. Re:Once again... BFD by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Use your antenna for over-the-air reception, if you're interested in any network shows; it's far higher quality than cable... it's not overcompressed.

    18. Re:Once again... BFD by Jerrry · · Score: 1

      BFD is right. For christ's sake, we're taking about an entertainment medium here, not a basic necessity like food or water. People who think otherwise really need to get a life.

    19. Re:Once again... BFD by Ollabelle · · Score: 1

      So that explains the incessant, idiotic "tests of the emergency broadcast system". As if the recipient can't recognize an emergency among the always-on, in-your-face nature of the media.

      --
      Ibid.
    20. Re:Once again... BFD by hurfy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even tho that has nothing to do with reality?

      If they didn't get one yet, they are screwed anyway...well unless the CW was the only* station here that you wanted to receive tomorrow! Can even the half-brains watch that station and only that station all day ?!?

      I am confused as to why they made it more confusing.....

      *Disregarding Ion television which appears to be on a low-power transmitter.

    21. Re:Once again... BFD by camperdave · · Score: 5, Funny

      A TV (or television) is like a computer monitor, except that it doesn't need to be plugged into a computer to display a video signal. It uses a radio link to connect to a wireless access point, kind of like bluetooth or wifi, except the link is only one way, and the access point may be many kilometres away. In fact, the same signal is sent to many TVs simultaneously, in much the same way that a broadcast frame is seen by all of the computers on a LAN. They actually call the television signal a "broadcast". Everybody sees the same stream at the same time. TVs have no facility to back up and replay the video stream. It cannot be paused, either.

      Since the wireless link is a simplex link, everyone is stuck receiving the same video signal. A TV viewer is bound by the scheduling and content choices made by a person called a program director who works at the broadcast facility. In order to alleviate this obvious problem, "channels" were introduced. Each channel streams a different video stream. However, due to the expense of the transmitting equipment and the fact that they are all using the same transmission medium (the so called aether), only a handful of channels exist. Until recently, these video streams were transmitted using an analog signal. As such they were plagued with interference, crosstalk, etc.

      To combat these obvious defficiencies, many places started streaming the video to the TV over a shared wire. This eliminated most of the interference issues, and allowed for more video stream channels to be sent to the television. Over time, the TVs became more like computers. The monitor was connected to a box which contained a hard drive, allowing video streams to be recorded and played on demand. The signals were transmitted digitally, which allowed for error correction, and it allowed for true internet connectivity and two way communication. Most people still use them only for simple video streaming, however. There are also quite a few people who (probably for quaint religeous reasons), still rely on the analog wireless broadcasts to receive their pre-scheduled, pre-chosen video stream.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    22. Re:Once again... BFD by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      If I read the rules correctly, the same "must carry" rules that apply to the broadcast stations in a cable service area also apply to the HD signals of those broadcast stations. In our area, we get both local big cities broadcast network feeds, but apparently only one of the HD feeds. Even the "limited basic" analog cable service gets the HD.

    23. Re:Once again... BFD by Dallas+Caley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously, we've got more important things to worry about in this country that weather people can watch their soaps on channel 4. Why are we wasting money on this.

      Here's a wake up call to all those who are watching regular TV and can't afford to get a box. Perhaps they should stop watching so much TV and get a real job

    24. Re:Once again... BFD by edittard · · Score: 4, Funny

      Perhaps they should stop watching so much TV and get a real job

      I'm a television monitor/researcher, you insensitive clod!

      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
    25. Re:Once again... BFD by NevermindPhreak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Forgetting about the elderly?

    26. Re:Once again... BFD by Dallas+Caley · · Score: 5, Funny

      My apologies, i'm a vodka and olives taste tester so i completely understand.

    27. Re:Once again... BFD by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are also quite a few people who (probably for quaint religeous reasons), still rely on the analog wireless broadcasts to receive their pre-scheduled, pre-chosen video stream.

      Everyone I know who watches OTA TV does it by and large for one reason: It's free.

      Yes, you have to watch ads, nothing is free, blah blah blah, but the fact remains that once they've bought the set and the antenna they don't have to pay to watch TV. In my jurisdiction, basic cable is nearly $450 per year. Some people just choose to spend that $450 elsewhere.

    28. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The part he nailed on the head was that it's the networks who care, not the majority of the consumers. If the networks don't have anyone to watch their ads, they won't have anyone to buy ad space.

    29. Re:Once again... BFD by abushga · · Score: 1

      I sold my TV 25 years ago. Seriously. Problem solved.

    30. Re:Once again... BFD by bitrex · · Score: 5, Funny

      There are also quite a few people who (probably for quaint religeous reasons), still rely on the analog wireless broadcasts to receive their pre-scheduled, pre-chosen video stream.

      Analog television signals can convey the subtle nuances of a scene in a way that the average wood-eyed viewer could never notice, but that a trained videophile such as myself can spot like night and day. Also, cathode-ray tubes impart a dynamic character and emphasis to the even-numbered harmonics that impart a "holographic" like quality to the images, while still retaining the overall linearity of sweep azimuth and elevation granted by the intrinsic behavior of electrons given thermal energy by a heated cathode with a low work-function and accelerated inside a synchronized magnetic or electrostatic field. You'd never catch me watching digital TV on some cheap LCD display, buddy! Even an idiot can tell that the greens are heavily excoriated and taste entirely wrong.

    31. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I have 3/8ths of a brain you insensitive clod!

    32. Re:Once again... BFD by quenda · · Score: 1

      Thanks for that! I had always wondered what the RF input on my TV was meant for.

    33. Re:Once again... BFD by ElectricRook · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think someone has unplugged the anode while touching a ground...

      --
      - High Tech workers, please say NO to Union Carpenters, their Union sees fit to control our compensation.
    34. Re:Once again... BFD by metalcoat · · Score: 1

      The TV stations in my area started broadcast for only the last 2 weeks that the station was going down. They made the announcements annoying but they should have initiated this weeks ago. And now they are off the analog air, feel sorry for the people who still don't understand it.

    35. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think someone has unplugged the anode while touching a ground...

      I figured out long ago that I was better off plugging in my anode more often, and watching TV less often.

    36. Re:Once again... BFD by el+americano · · Score: 1

      That's wrong, since they sought to extend the expiration date of the currently valid coupons by the same amount. However, the stimulus package includes an additional $650 million for the coupon program, so now they don't need to wait for coupons to expire to start issuing coupons to those on the waiting list.

      You have to buy your own HD antenna.

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    37. Re:Once again... BFD by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Funny

      Anyone else, well, maybe there are survival of the fittest selection standards still hitting us, on occasion.

      Yes! Those people who are too stupid to figure out how to get out TVs to work will instead resort to sexual activity for recreation, and are more likely to be too stupid to use birth control, and eventually...

      um... I think I see a problem here.

    38. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The networks care, but the local stations want to switch.. Right now they are paying for space for two antennas, two power bills, etc. Most also have standby stations for fail over purposes, and the amount of power and other overhead for both costs them more then the 2% of users who might not be ready.

      As to why people aren't ready, I can't fathom.. One of our local stations has even been offering to select and buy new quality Channel Master antennas for anyone in their broadcast territory for almost 2 years now, and the coupons have been going on for a year or so..

    39. Re:Once again... BFD by maxume · · Score: 2, Informative

      You may have to buy your own HD antenna. The good news is that most antennas are HD antennas, and people who are reasonably close to towers will probably be fine with the antennas that they already have.

      People used to dealing with fuzzy analog may be out of luck, or they may need to add a directional UHF antenna (in my area, the company that owns NBC and ABC is going to start simulcasting ABC on the NBC transmitter, so I will likely gain a channel).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    40. Re:Once again... BFD by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      But...but...but they might miss American Idol, The Bachelor or Dancing With The Stars!!!!
      How can I miss them if they won't go away?

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    41. Re:Once again... BFD by spinkham · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Exactly. I took about $300, built a mythtv box, and signed up for netflix..
      Ongoing costs for netflix: ~$108 a year.
      So far there's nothing I've wanted to watch I can't get OTA, on Hulu, or on Netflix. And I get to watch it when it's convenient for me... Less money, more convenience.. Not bad IMHO.

      --
      Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
    42. Re:Once again... BFD by maxume · · Score: 1

      Hey everybody! This fucking idiot bought a TV.

      The things people do!

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    43. Re:Once again... BFD by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Informative

      You dont know anyone who is a videophile, or someone that can actually see.. I watch OTA because it's not destroyed by the satellite or cable company. The PBS hd channels here that are OTA are at least 90% higher resolution and far less blockyness than the re-compressed mess that Comcast passes off as the OTA HD channels. (Yes they compress them, I got the transport stream files to prove it. Comcast and DISH have the crappiest HD signals available. If you want to see your best video OTA is the best choice.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    44. Re:Once again... BFD by tsalmark · · Score: 1

      And everyone else should be able to live with out TV for at least a few days.

    45. Re:Once again... BFD by palegray.net · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      They should have saved for retirement better. Even folks on a fixed income have the ability to budget their money for planned purchases. I know a lot of retired folks, btw.

    46. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatever, junior.

    47. Re:Once again... BFD by Orp · · Score: 1

      You must visit here a lot. If not, you'd fit right in.

      Off to warm up the EL34s...

      --
      A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
    48. Re:Once again... BFD by pizzach · · Score: 1

      Which does reminds me...how many people thought the bubble screens look better than the flat screens? I know I originally thought so. I know my parents originally thought so. Yes, the flat screens are better and easier on the eyes, but how much of that perception is just because you are told it is better and not decided yourself? Hell, there are people who would never notice the difference between an up-scaled DVD and a Blu-ray movie unless they are told the Blue-ray are sharper.

      --
      Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
    49. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a) Originally, Coupons had to be used by Oct 31 2008. Mine expired on that date.
      b) None of the converters cost can be covered by the $40 coupon. I suspect government approved price fixing at $49+ to prevent a "free" converter from happening. Sales tax is extra too, so most folks have $11 out of pocket expense that can't be covered by food stamps.

      I'm amazed that poverty is defined in the USA as only 1 TV in the house. No TVs should be included in that calculation.

    50. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are we wasting money on this.

      Here's a wake up call to all those who are watching regular TV and can't afford to get a box.

      The coupon program is entirely funded by the spectrum auction. The people "wasting money on this" are the ones who are going to use the portion of the spectrum. This change has made televisions artificially and prematurely obsolete. Who better to foot the bill for upgrading existing equipment than the people profiting from this change?

    51. Re:Once again... BFD by residieu · · Score: 1

      And then you'll get crappy low quality "HD" which is just the same signal scaled up (poorly) to widescreen. Or at least that's what cablevision gives us.

    52. Re:Once again... BFD by dacaldar · · Score: 1

      No, the "weather people" are on channel 22 :)

    53. Re:Once again... BFD by traderkenny · · Score: 1

      Belly : Don't pay much attention about this thing!

    54. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Survival of the fittest? You think those who stop getting TV will proliferate *less*?

    55. Re:Once again... BFD by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      Uhura in pants? Heaven forbid!

    56. Re:Once again... BFD by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      And discover their long-lost free time.

      I can imagine some of them, "There was an election?"

    57. Re:Once again... BFD by Mozk · · Score: 1

      I consider myself well versed in electronics and television broadcasting and I somewhat understand signal transmission, but what the hell is an HD antenna? As long as the antenna picks up the proper UHF frequencies, why would you need an "HD" antenna? Sure, they might be made specifically for over-the-air DTV signals, but it seems like a marketing ploy.

      --
      No existe.
    58. Re:Once again... BFD by MissionAccomplished · · Score: 2, Insightful

      20 bucks for continued free TV? How about you take up a collection for those poor folks who can't afford that...

    59. Re:Once again... BFD by dokebi · · Score: 1

      Wow. I swear I thought I was reading a Wikipedia entry on TV circa 2050.

      --
      In Soviet Russia, articles before post read *you*!
    60. Re:Once again... BFD by Corporate+Troll · · Score: 2, Funny

      Seriously, we've got more important things to worry about in this country that weather people can watch their soaps on channel 4.

      Yes, spelling for example...

    61. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone else, well, maybe there are survival of the fittest selection standards still hitting us, on occasion. I don't see that as a bad thing.

      Jesus, just what we need -- another dick-pumping pseudo-Darwinist scoffing at people who don't measure up to his standard. For Christ's sake, 150 years later and you goddamned people just don't understand what he was saying.

    62. Re:Once again... BFD by nick.ian.k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here's a wake up call to all those who are watching regular TV and can't afford to get a box. Perhaps they should stop watching so much TV and get a real job.

      Because anyone who can't work such a box into a tight budget obviously hasn't got a real job, right? Because your baseless judgement of other people's situations relative to your own just flat out reign supreme? Here's a wake up call to you and every last fake Libertarian shitbag who modded you insightful: yes, we know you've managed to obtain jobs just good enough to afford a few luxuries, not struggle vary hard, and yet, between all that exalted 80+ hours a week "real job" time, find time to bitch about the failings of the poor and lazy on Slashdot, and tip us off to the truth: you just robbed another lazy sad sack of a position, and if not for you, one more person could've bought the box already, or even cable, and done what you've done here.

    63. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you have to watch ads, nothing is free, blah blah blah, ....

      How is this different from cable? There is exactly one reason I will not have cable in my house. Ever.

      The original promise, other than a good signal in fringe areas, was that THERE WOULD BE NO FUCKING ADS. You were paying money for the access, so there was no need for ad revenue to make the business plan work. What total fucking horseshit -- there are now as many ads on cable as on OTA TV.

      When the bastards quit lying to me about what I'll be getting, I'll consider buying their product. Until that time, they can push their miles of cable up their collective asshole.

    64. Re:Once again... BFD by zdzichu · · Score: 1

      In some countries even OTA is not free. If you have a TV or radio, you have to pay a tax for it. This tax is transferred to public broadcasters.

      --
      :wq
    65. Re:Once again... BFD by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While I agree with the sentiment, the one serious counter-argument I'd give is that you need to ensure that people are able to receive public safety announcements. TV is much better than radio for dealing with severe weather, because being able to see the weather maps and storm tracks gives you a much better idea of what's going on. Going into tornado season in Oklahoma (where I grew up) without TV would make me a little uncomfortable.

      Recall that we (the people) give the broadcasters the right to use the airwaves in exchange for them providing public services: news, weather, and emergency announcements. We decided these things are important, so its important to make sure their accessible.

      But at the same time, this has been coming for a long time, people should have been able to figure it out by now.

    66. Re:Once again... BFD by lazybeam · · Score: 1

      I read in an electronics magazine that normal VHF/UHF antennas will "see" a large range of frequencies, but a digital antenna will only see the frequency ranges that are used by digital TV. The idea is then that the front-end amplifier of the digital TV's tuner will not be blasted with frequencies that are irrelevant to it, and gives more signal to the frequencies that are used. Analog TV uses a big chunk of spectrum and Digital TV uses less of it.

      --
      --
      no sig for you. come back one year.
    67. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      ...but what the hell is an HD antenna?

      It is marketing BS, but there are geek issues involved. As you may know, analog TV uses 3 different frequency band ranges: VHF-lo (channels 2-6, which will be reallocated. Good for LONG DISTANCE transmissions at high power (using the atmospheric bounce) but also vulnerable to EMI), VHF-hi (channels 7-13), which will be kept for DTV, and UHF, which its upper band, from channels 52-69, will be removed from DTV reception.

      Different antenna designs have different reception efficiency in different bands. Rabbit ears (folding twin dipoles) were only good for VHF, and since there is no more VHF-lo, useless for DTV. The other common cheapo UHF antennas, circle and bowtie, allegedly will work at receiving VHF-hi, but are not terribly efficient. There are designs like Gray-Hoverman, which weren't popular in the analog TV era, because besides not getting VHF-lo well, it wouldn't get the high end of UHF well either. Well, there's no more "UHF-hi" (ch 52-69), so now those type antennas can be used, and are pretty darn efficient in the DTV range.

      Then there is the multipath issue. (ghosting) On analog-TV, it was an annoyance. On DTV, it can actually kill reception, because its a form of signal interference (which weakens reception). In places where its an issue, you're better off with those "new-fangled" DTV antennas (e.g. - Philips silver sensor, which looks like a triangular raygun made of metal tongue depressors) which are designed to "suppress multipathing", which then improves DTV reception.

      I would imagine the "ideal" DTV antenna would be most efficient for receiving VHF-hi, the truncated UHF, and suppress multipathing. The old rooftop antennas should still work, but you MAY be able to get a new TV antenna that will bring in more dB, because of its design. But there is no industry standardization for the term HDTV antenna, so you won't know if its worthwhile to buy it without a spectrum analyzer. (Or more cheaply, read avsforum.com, and let the engineering geeks tell you what's the best antennas to get.)

    68. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Powers That Be, are willing to subsidize one useful TV per poor household. They control the TV, they control what can and can't be portrayed or said, they basically control how you perceive "reality" and current events. Why else would people think its important to pay an extra $20K for a car (rather than save the difference), think the US was justified to invade Iraq, think Lindsay Lohan is news, firearms are "bad" and must be kept from the general public, and politicians are working for the best interests of the shlub voter?

    69. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone with half a brain will be fine

      I'm more pessimistic, so I consider them brain-half-empty.

    70. Re:Once again... BFD by ukemike · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why the heck are we getting a story posted on this almost daily? Who cares? I've read the threads, and it's not a big deal. Anyone with half a brain will be fine. Anyone else, well, maybe there are survival of the fittest selection standards still hitting us, on occasion. I don't see that as a bad thing.

      Wrong. EVERYONE without exception will be fine. TV is not a life critical resource. It's not like they are upgrading the electricity and if you don't have the converter box yet then you might freeze to death tonight. This is the boob tube. We're talking about Survivor, Wheel of Fortune, and daytime soap operas.

      I'd say that the people most likely to thrive are those that don't bother with the so called "upgrade" and give up TV altogether. I'm one of those households that they are saying is "unprepared." I haven't bought a converter, I wouldn't get one if they were giving them away. I feel like I am perfectly well prepared.

      I'm repeatedly surprised at how cronic TV junkies are so boring to talk to. Worse, how they are so afraid that they'll be murdered, kidnapped, or attacked by terrorists if they go out their front door.

      Give it up! It's rotting your brain! This is the perfect opportunity. Shred your converter box coupon and read a book to your kids.

      --
      -- QED
    71. Re:Once again... BFD by dangitman · · Score: 1

      No, I think it still remains mysterious and unfathomable.

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    72. Re:Once again... BFD by andy.ruddock · · Score: 1

      Spelling and grammar obviously not in that list.

      --
      God: An invisible friend for grown-ups.
    73. Re:Once again... BFD by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      Uhura in pants?

      Much worse. Uhura with a beard and hairy chest...

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    74. Re:Once again... BFD by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Why are we wasting money on this.

      We're not. The electronics companies paid 20 billion to lease channels 52 to 69, and 2 billion of that is being used to provide upgrade coupons. So it's folks like Google, Microsoft, Verizon, Comcast, and so on who are paying the dollars for the $40 coupons.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    75. Re:Once again... BFD by commodore64_love · · Score: 0, Troll

      You don't understand shit.

      I could shove your face into a toilet, and you still wouldn't comprehend. The *electronics companies* are the ones paying 20 billion dollars to lease channels 52 to 69, and 2 billion of that is used to buy the upgrade coupons. You are not paying a single smelly penny. It is Google, Microsoft, Verizon, Comcast, et cetera who are footing the bill.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    76. Re:Once again... BFD by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>The TV stations in my area started broadcast for only the last 2 weeks

      If that were really true, they were in violation of FCC rules and could be fined millions. Therefore I suspect it's not true, that the announcements were there, but you didn't see them because you spend more time watching internet than watching television.

      The stations in my area (Baltimore, Harrisburg, Philly) have been running bottom-of-the-screen scrolls since last September. They've also been performing "switch off" tests since November. Anyone who was not aware of their 6 o'clock news suddenly going blank at 6:25 had their head up their ass.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    77. Re:Once again... BFD by Misterfixit · · Score: 0

      And along with the EL34's, the 813's inside your AN/GLC-3 Transmitter, so as to take out any and all signals from Channel 1 through Channel 900. Best part is pushing the Big Button during German Football playoffs while in the field at Bamberg or Graf. Ah, the howls of the Jammed. Hoo-Hah!

      --
      nar
    78. Re:Once again... BFD by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>I read in an electronics magazine that normal VHF/UHF antennas will "see" a large range of frequencies, but a digital antenna will only see the frequency ranges that are used by digital TV
      >>>

      There's no difference between an antenna made for channels 2-to-69 and one made for 2-to-51. An older antenna will work just fine for picking-up digital channels.

      What has changed is the height requirements. With analog a settop antenna was okay, but with digital television the FCC recommends raising the antenna to at least 25 feet (i.e. rooftop).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    79. Re:Once again... BFD by Misterfixit · · Score: 0

      Yesh, oh yeah ... Once Black NEVER Back! Oh yeah ...

      --
      nar
    80. Re:Once again... BFD by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>VHF-lo (channels 2-6, which will be reallocated).....since there is no more VHF-lo

      If you're going to call yourself a geek, and pretend to be psuedo-expert, at least get your shit together. VHF-lo is NOT being reallocated. I have a DT-6 here in Philadelphia, I believe there's a DT-5 up in Boston, and multiple DT-4, DT-3, and DT-2 stations spread all across the continent. VHF-lo is alive and well.

      >>>Rabbit ears...useless for DTV.

      False, false, false. Rabbit ears will work just great for my local area which is populated by 6,7,8,9,10,11,12, and 13 (plus a few UHF stations). It's idiots like you, spreading false information, that make the transition even more confusing. If people listened to you and threw-away their rabbit ears, they'd effectively cut themselves off from receiving half their stations (in the 2 to 13 range). Like I said before, don't call yourself a geek or pretend to be an expert when you don't know what you're talking about.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    81. Re:Once again... BFD by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>This is the boob tube.

      Where? (rapidly flips through the channels). I don't see anything resembling this Boob Tube of which you speak. The closest I could find was "Get Out!" on the Ion channel, but everybody's boobs are covered with clothing which is no fun. The Boob Tube channel sounds much better than what I usually watch.

      Oh well.

      (goes off to watch the This TV movie channel)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    82. Re:Once again... BFD by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Frankly, yes.

      The cable companies are getting really greedy, and I don't see why watching a local station that I can get for free (via antenna) should cost ~$40 more in HD than in standard definition. My brother recently told me his cable bill is $65 a month for basic 70 channel cable. I remember not too long ago (2000) it was only $30. Prices just keep going up and up and up, and in my opinion $800 is a lot of money to throw-away every year. For the few select shows I enjoy like Monk or Galactica, it's cheaper to just buy the DVD set. (Or stream off the net.)

      Also as I grow older I realize I don't really need HD. "24" or "Heroes" or "Babylon 5" is just as entertaining in standard DVD resolution as in HD. I grew-up in an era of fuzzy analog images received from 50 miles away, such that I could barely tell if I was watching Captain Picard or Captain Kirk. Okay I exaggerate a little. ;-) But for me DTV/DVD resolution *is* high definition and far exceeds anything I've seen in the past.

      In a time when the economy is poor and I've been laid-off my job, I think money should be saved, not spent making Comsucks richer.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    83. Re:Once again... BFD by speedlaw · · Score: 1

      Really. An Antenna, 100 feet of coax from the big box, some connectors. Three splitters. Less than $150 with all. This feeds an OTA DVR, a Sony HDD250. The DVR is well amortized after two years, and I get whatever in full HD with 5.1 sound, thank you. My cable or Sat companies would make me pay at least $90 per month for the same thing, and I'd get bonus compression artifacts. Failing to sell the "free" aspect is a major flaw in the marketing of HD. Unfortunately we got the DRM part too.

    84. Re:Once again... BFD by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      Uh... half of the story is whether or not the freed up frequencies will be available for other uses on time...

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    85. Re:Once again... BFD by steelcaress · · Score: 1

      The sad thing is, survival of the fittest is dead. The best you can hope for is to deal with people on a daily basis who don't need a proctology appointment to figure out where their heads are.

    86. Re:Once again... BFD by Dallas+Caley · · Score: 1

      All i can say to that is, i grew up extremely dirt poor living most of the time in an industrial space and sleeping on shelf in my dads workshop, and coincidentally we didn't have a TV for most of my life. amazingly enough i grew up to be very smart and figured out how to be successfull. I don't think its a coincidence that i had no TV, rather i think its the CAUSE of my success. Yes i have the luxury of being lazy now because i didn't have the luxury of TV when i was young.

      And to answer your first question, No you don't have a real job if all you are doing is flipping burgers, if you are fool enough to think that you can survive your whole life with that kind of mentality then i feel sorry for you. And yes i have taken a job away from another "lazy" person, but every 40 year old, career burger flipper has also taken away a job from the young enterprising teen who should be doing that job to pay his way through college.

      TV is a distraction from reality and NOT a necessity.

    87. Re:Once again... BFD by ncc74656 · · Score: 1

      VHF-lo (channels 2-6, which will be reallocated. Good for LONG DISTANCE transmissions at high power (using the atmospheric bounce) but also vulnerable to EMI)

      Some broadcasters are staying in low-band VHF even after the transition. I know of at least one that is transmitting ATSC on channel 2. (Don't know if they'll move it to channel 3 once they shut down their NTSC transmission or if they'll stay on channel 2...not that it matters much to me one way or the other since I pick up their signal over cable.)

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    88. Re:Once again... BFD by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      How is this different from cable?

      The main reason I have analog cable is I get more channels - Around 50 or so. I can't get Discovery or CNN or History or HGTV or SpaceTV over-the-air.

    89. Re:Once again... BFD by vivek7006 · · Score: 1

      Wow. You are my new hero. You sound so smart! Even Deepak Chopra will bow in front of you.

    90. Re:Once again... BFD by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I've been labeled "troll" because someone apparently thought I was too harsh. Let me put on my Miss Manners face and rephrase:

      >>>Why are we wasting money on this?

      Rest assured dear citizen, we taxpayers are not wasting a dime. The *electronics companies* have generously donated 20 billion dollars to the cause. 18 billion is used to partially pay off the debt, while another 2 billion is used to provide upgrade coupons to our poor, disadvantaged neighbors. And in exchange all the companies asked for was the opportunity to provide more services (such as internet) on channels 52 to 69. Wow! So everything works out just great and dandy in this new era of bipartisanship & change. :-) :-D

      (two thumbs up)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    91. Re:Once again... BFD by nick.ian.k · · Score: 1

      All i can say to that is, i grew up extremely dirt poor living most of the time in an industrial space and sleeping on shelf in my dads workshop, and coincidentally we didn't have a TV for most of my life. amazingly enough i grew up to be very smart and figured out how to be successfull. I don't think its a coincidence that i had no TV, rather i think its the CAUSE of my success. Yes i have the luxury of being lazy now because i didn't have the luxury of TV when i was young.

      The absence of a TV did not make you smart or successful - if it was that easy, it would be a simple to raise a person to be smart and succeful by taking away the TV. I came from a fairly poor background myself, but my family went out of their way in my younger days to foster curiousity and interest in learning, I was lucky to have some teachers who gave a damn, and then that's it. The neighboring kids on either side whose parents were beating them and had all varieties of substance abuse problems in their families didn't fare so well because they were coming up through hostile environments that didn't promote learning, did nothing but struggle in school, and their early failures dissuaded them from trying to achieve later in life. Bad hand scenarios do happen, and it's mostly through external intervention that the ones that get straightened out get straightened out. People who pull themselves up are rare, and that still usually involves some outside inspiration or catalyst that has to be damned strong and powerful. So fuck off with the "the absence of a TV made me smart" - that's complete bullshit.

      And to answer your first question, No you don't have a real job if all you are doing is flipping burgers, if you are fool enough to think that you can survive your whole life with that kind of mentality then i feel sorry for you. And yes i have taken a job away from another "lazy" person, but every 40 year old, career burger flipper has also taken away a job from the young enterprising teen who should be doing that job to pay his way through college.

      You and everyone else who has ever pulled the "real job" tirade refuses to think about circumstance, period. Yes, some people never try. Lots more are sidelined by circumstance and don't manage to move beyond those low-skill jobs. You're neglecting points such as "it's tough to make time for education or career building when you work three shitty jobs" or "regardless of skill and qualifications, it's impossible to go interview for and receive a 'proper' job when not having dental care for your early life has left you with a mouth of rotted and missing teeth" or whatever else could be named. You assume, because you came from a poor background but still somehow managed to have someone tip you in the right direction and nothing catastrophically interrupted your push towards success, that this is the way it goes for everyone, and that everyone's got a fighting chance in they just put their back into it. You're wrong. Just the right sequence of bad events can doom someone to never moving beyond being a sanitation worker, and only getting there if they're fortunate. Suggesting these people just didn't bother is short sighted, irresponsible, and downright fucking stupid.

      TV is a distraction from reality and NOT a necessity.

      Right, because TV is about sitcoms, not news, and besides, everyone has internet or can read newspapers and can receive vital information about the world around them through these channels. Right? Oh, wrong again.

    92. Re:Once again... BFD by metalcoat · · Score: 1

      Maybe I stated that wrong, I only really started noticing them cause they got annoying. You still saw that national advertising but that confused people already. The commercials were local ones.

    93. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think that even the networks realized how big a problem this was going to be. Only now are they scared since Zik-Zak corporation is in a position to purchase Network 23.

    94. Re:Once again... BFD by jwilty · · Score: 1

      Some people just choose to spend that $450 elsewhere.

      Like on a $50 converter box!

    95. Re:Once again... BFD by eleuthero · · Score: 2, Insightful

      rather than spreading vitriol, I think a good number of us are simply amazed that TV has become a necessity so much so that the government (and thereby each taxpayer) has to pay for us all to keep having it--last I checked, the trees and parks of the world still had kids playing in them.

    96. Re:Once again... BFD by eleuthero · · Score: 1

      the other night we had a fairly serious storm in the Dallas area. The air raid sirens went off and my wife and I took my computer into the closet with us where we watched the news live over the internet without having to be hooked into the power grid. On top of it all--as long as there are air raid sirens (or whatever they call them now that we apparently have no risk of air raids), there does not seem to me to be a huge need of television to communicate imminent danger.

    97. Re:Once again... BFD by eleuthero · · Score: 1

      doing a simple visual comparison with the free online versions from the various cable company's websites also yields similar results... the "HD" version of ... Psych (USA), for example, is listed on the website as 480p... that's normal, non HD TV... yet it looks fine on my HDTV and equal to the "HD" of the cable company's version.

    98. Re:Once again... BFD by ForrestFire439 · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you couldn't save up $50 in the time since the transition was announced, perhaps you've got bigger problems than not being able to watch television.

      --
      "Bread and Circuses is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure." --Robert Heinlien
    99. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's OK. I'm a fleshlight tester so I understand, too.

    100. Re:Once again... BFD by jmanforever · · Score: 1

      "I think someone has unplugged the anode while touching a ground..."

      But he HAD to unplug the anode. It was the only way to upgrade to the new $600 "MonsterWire SuperMegaGold" videophile/audiophile/pedophile grade anode cables!

    101. Re:Once again... BFD by LionMage · · Score: 1

      Psych (USA), for example, is listed on the website as 480p... that's normal, non HD TV... yet it looks fine on my HDTV and equal to the "HD" of the cable company's version.

      Actually, 480p is not usually billed as Standard Definition (aka "non-HD TV"), but rather as "Enhanced Definition" or ED. It's just progressive, rather than the interlacing you typically see with what we call Standard Def. The "Enhanced" designation was cooked up by vendors of plasma TV sets who wanted to sell wide-screen TVs that wouldn't meet the definition of High Def (which in the U.S. is 720p, 1080i, or 1080p).

      Anyway, no matter what you call it, 480p isn't really Standard Def, because it is visibly superior. What's sad is that cable and satellite operators compress video so much that HD is hardly any better than ED -- seems to me that truth in advertising laws ought to apply. I haven't been in any hurry to upgrade my cable package to HD for this reason, nor have I transitioned to DirecTV.

    102. Re:Once again... BFD by RocketRabbit · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Anybody with half a brain stopped watching television years ago.

    103. Re:Once again... BFD by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      Which does reminds me...how many people thought the bubble screens look better than the flat screens?
      It depends which flat screens. Many older or lower end LCDs have far worse viewing angle and contrast ratio than even very cheap CRTs. This kind of thing is VERY noticable if you watch the TV from the wrong angle (up/down often seems to be particularlly bad meaning anyone who sits on the floor gets a terrible picture) or try to watch a program with dark scenes.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    104. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's a wake up call to all those who are watching regular TV and can't afford to get a box. Perhaps they should stop watching so much TV and get a real job.

      Because anyone who can't work such a box into a tight budget obviously hasn't got a real job, right? Because your baseless judgement of other people's situations relative to your own just flat out reign supreme? Here's a wake up call to you and every last fake Libertarian shitbag who modded you insightful: yes, we know you've managed to obtain jobs just good enough to afford a few luxuries, not struggle vary hard, and yet, between all that exalted 80+ hours a week "real job" time, find time to bitch about the failings of the poor and lazy on Slashdot, and tip us off to the truth: you just robbed another lazy sad sack of a position, and if not for you, one more person could've bought the box already, or even cable, and done what you've done here.

      Robbed? That doesn't make any sense. This person clearly didn't have the job, so how could I have robbed it from them?

      Jobs are earned based on merit, not owed. You don't have the right to a job. You have a job at the pleasure and expense of the person who made enough money to hire you, and they don't owe you anything.

      I'm constantly nervous around my boss because it impresses me so much that he built the company at which I work. Show some respect for your employer for creating an organization with the resources to pay for you and stop acting like an entitled American.

    105. Re:Once again... BFD by nick.ian.k · · Score: 1

      Robbed? That doesn't make any sense. This person clearly didn't have the job, so how could I have robbed it from them?

      Jobs are earned based on merit, not owed.

      They are *sometimes* earned based on merit. Executive existants, for instance, are a often a fine example of low-skill employees who are exalted into "real job" category. Anyone who can afford to look marginally presentable, kiss ass, be decently cordial, and type 60-70wpm can swing it. The only "skill" or "merit" there is decent communications savvy and typing. There are plenty of people who *could* do this job but didn't have the connections or the right set of clothes.

      As for "owed" jobs, that's you taking liberty with interpretation and setting up strawmen. You likely damn well know this already. Anonymous and cowardly in the extreme.

      You don't have the right to a job. You have a job at the pleasure and expense of the person who made enough money to hire you, and they don't owe you anything.

      Again: owed? Fuck off. You're bleeding all over the place here. "[P]leasure and expense" is indeed it. That means needs, whims, and financial considerations. It's not about qualifications per se, but competition. Who sells themself better.

      I'm constantly nervous around my boss because it impresses me so much that he built the company at which I work.

      If you're constantly nervous, you're either a fraud with suspect qualifications expecting to be axed at any moment, or your boss is an extremist ass-head who makes ill-advised snap judgements, in case you're better off seeking employment in a place run by someone more reasonable and stable. People like that tend to make poor decisions.

      Show some respect for your employer for creating an organization with the resources to pay for you and stop acting like an entitled American.

      Stop assuming fear and respect are equivalent to each other, quit being such a complete peon about everything, and stop being such an absolutist dipshit. I'm an presently employed by a company started by a person who worked hard, but the company's success has not been contingent solely upon their efforts, it's everyone working there, and my boss would be the first to admit it. I've also worked places whose success had fuck-all to do with my employer's hard work and were completely undeserving of my respect. I was smart enough to get out of those places and look elsewhere.

    106. Re:Once again... BFD by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      The original promise . . . was that THERE WOULD BE NO FUCKING ADS. . . .

      When the bastards quit lying to me about what I'll be getting, I'll consider buying their product.

      Really? The "bastards" still tell you you'll get your cable ad-free?

    107. Re:Once again... BFD by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 1

      I was specific enough that your little BS rant doesn't apply. I see that you are too much on remote control to notice however. Anger leads to perceptual bias. You might want to look into that, before you piss away ALL your friends, if you have any.

    108. Re:Once again... BFD by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 1

      There are emergency broadcasts. A rare occurrence, and much ranted on here. Take a look. It WILL effect the slow-of-brain.

    109. Re:Once again... BFD by donaldm · · Score: 1

      TV is much better than radio for dealing with severe weather, because being able to see the weather maps and storm tracks gives you a much better idea of what's going on. Going into tornado season in Oklahoma (where I grew up) without TV would make me a little uncomfortable.

      Lets be honest here, how many people can read a weather map? In addition I think you will find that more people listen to the radio when they are driving or on some sort of transport than watch any form of TV. Yes TV can be informative (although many would say it is entertainment now) but usually when people are watching it.

      The easiest and most efficient way of getting emergency information to the public particularly during daylight hours is radio. Forget about showing weather maps or trends a simple repeated verbal warning usually suffices. Even taking the hearing impaired into account a TV wont help that much unless they are watching it. After all only people who are in harms way are important not the person who is viewing the potential disaster thousands of kilometres or miles away.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    110. Re:Once again... BFD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because economics is a zero sum equation right? While I concede the insensitiity to the poor, the thought that one person's success necessitates another's failure is a fallacy.

    111. Re:Once again... BFD by nick.ian.k · · Score: 1

      Yes, because economics is a zero sum equation right? While I concede the insensitiity to the poor, the thought that one person's success necessitates another's failure is a fallacy.

      You're looking for another argument. I'm saying, "The assumption that everyone who couldn't afford such a box is a lazy P.O.S. beneath the 'real job' folks is bullshit, and I seriously question how many self-procliamed 'real job' people are themselves working jobs that could be taken by the people in lower-skilled positions, as deciding to ignore unique individual circumstances as to *why* people are in those jobs says fuck all about the actual skills or qualifications of those people."

    112. Re:Once again... BFD by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      when I went to flat CRT the images looked concave for a while, brain must have built a compensation neural net.....

  3. The confusion is part of the Stimulus by dmomo · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is designed to get people off of their couch and out shopping!

    1. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by mweather · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But how will they know what to buy?

    2. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "This is designed to get people off of their couch and out shopping!"

      But, most people don't have money to buy anything....

      I do, however. I was at Sam's club the other day, and surprised to see one of the latest Samsung 52" LCD 120hz flatscreen tv's for like $1789 or thereabouts. Wow..that looked nice, and I need a nice tv for my bedroom. I'll hook it to my mythtv box I'm rebuilding.

      Hey..speaking of mythtv, I've got a question. I'm currently renting, and wanting to go do the mythtv client server route in the house. I was at this point (renting) hoping to avoid running cat5 all over the place. Can wireless work fast enough now for a myth client server system? For HD content? I've got my server with a HDHomerun pulling QAM off the cable, and ATSC over the air...

      I've been seeing dual channel wireless stations going for about $100...not sure what the cards cost. Would this be fast enough to stream content throughout the house? Do any of the dual channel cards work well with current linux drivers?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by maino82 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hey..speaking of mythtv, I've got a question. I'm currently renting, and wanting to go do the mythtv client server route in the house. I was at this point (renting) hoping to avoid running cat5 all over the place. Can wireless work fast enough now for a myth client server system? For HD content? I've got my server with a HDHomerun pulling QAM off the cable, and ATSC over the air...

      I used wireless for awhile on a little frontend box that was away from the master backend and it worked fine for SD content. When I switched out my tuner to HD though I started getting some stuttering and then broke down and just decided to figure out how to run a twisted pair to the box. I was using wireless G at the time... don't know if N would be good enough to eliminate the stuttering, but it's possible it might.

    4. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by genner · · Score: 1

      This is designed to get people off of their couch and out shopping!

      Well I was going to go stimulate the economy by getting a Huge HDTV.....now I don't see the point.

    5. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by Penguinoflight · · Score: 1

      Yes, 54Mbps is plenty for a single HD stream. The maximum bit-rate allowed by the blu-ray standard is 40Mbits, which doesn't leave a whole lot of headroom, but even 1080p typical is usually more in the 20Mbps range.

      --
      "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
      1 John 4:14
    6. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by PIBM · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've tried a N router with a 2x2 link, in the 130mbps reported connection speed, and I still got random stutter with 1080p content, but not with 720p. It might have been environmental issues reducing the bandwidth available, but it's not acceptable anyway.

      I ran 22 gb lines through my house :)

    7. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only there were other ways advertisers could reach us besides TV!

      *Drink VitaSlim!*

    8. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by Doug+Neal · · Score: 4, Funny

      But how will they know what to buy?

      A DTV box and/or a new TV, obviously.

    9. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by PetriBORG · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I'm trying to do that exact same thing myself, but haven't been able to get it right. There are just so many neighbors running their own wifi that I think it is causing signal degradation.

      Also, the MythVideo plugin *does* not stream, so you have to share (via SMB or NFS) the directory between the Front and Back ends... This makes those sort of files play too slowly as well.

      --
      Pete/Petri "damn, my chainsaw is clogged with 1's and 0's again." --clyde
    10. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by Chabil+Ha' · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, 54Mbps is plenty for a single HD stream. The maximum bit-rate allowed by the blu-ray standard is 40Mbits

      Except that you never really do get 54Mbps. You'd be lucky to maintain a constant 10Mbps. 54Mbps wireless is completely unacceptable for HD Content because the player is expecting a semi-constant stream of data which the wireless router typically can't deliver. I'd stick with a hardline.

      --
      We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
    11. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by LordNimon · · Score: 4, Informative

      I used to work for a company that made wireless access points. The highest we ever saw during testing (of our products and our competitors) was 22 Mbps.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    12. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's easy, whatever Sparky at Best buy tells them to buy.

      He's an expert and those $98.00 HDMI cables have such a clearer picture!!! I'm going back to buy a $980.00 power strip to make my greens greener!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    13. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by creepynut · · Score: 1

      So once everyone will be able to watch analog and digital, what will they do for the next recession?

    14. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by keithpreston · · Score: 1

      I have HD wireless streaming over 802.11G. It's OTA from a Vista Media Center to a Linksys Media Center Extender. It tests exactly at the threshold, but I've never had an issue with it. It could work, assuming Ideal Conditions. I can't see another wireless access point from my house, so I have little interference.

    15. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by level_headed_midwest · · Score: 1

      I had a MythTV frontend with an 802.11g link between that and the backend server to stream TV. If I had a signal >90% strength, I could just play standard-def TV encoded at 5 Mbps without more than a few stutters and skips. Less than that and I would get stutters and skips. The HDTV in my area is encoded around 18 Mbps, which is absolutely impossible to stream over 802.11g.

      The highest throughput I've seen on my wireless link with an SSH or HTTP transfer is about 22 Mbps as well.

      --
      Just "gittin-r-done," day after day.
    16. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I love the guy who swears up and down that he changed his cheap HDMI cable for an expensive one and the "colors are much more vibrant!"

    17. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why, ask for more bailouts, of course!

    18. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by rbanffy · · Score: 1

      I imagine some of them will even grab a book and read.

    19. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by FreakinSyco · · Score: 1

      I purchased a bunch of Linksys wireless N equipment. The goal was to have my PopcornHour box stream 1080p movies wirelessly. It didn't work at all. Playback would start then skip out. After reading a bit more, the Linksys stuff only supports wireless N in the 2.4GHz range. I went ahead and made the plunge and purchased an Apple Airport Extreme and one Apple Airport Express. I set up a wireless N network in the 5GHz range only. Now I can stream 1080p movies without issues.

      I don't think many people realize how big of a difference getting out of the overcrowded 2.4GHz range can make.

    20. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      If you buy a large antenna, you can get a constant 19 Mbit/s stream from your local television stations, and enjoy 24, smallville, supernatural, et cetera in HD. If you have a gadget called a VCR or DVR, you can even capture them for later viewing.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    21. Re:The confusion is part of the Stimulus by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      Real-world throughput of 50% of the signaling rate is about the best you're ever going to see, so that looks right to me.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
  4. My biggest problem with all of this... by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As I have said time and time again, this has been a gigantic clusterfuck of enormous proportions.

    1. The American public should have received a check (not a tax credit, not a credit card looking coupon, etc) for the total sale of the spectrum divided by every single citizen of this nation.

    2. When the TV was moved to digital, it should have been better than what was offered before. Yes, the quality is better (when you can receive the signal) but most of the time (even with good equipment) the signal doesn't come in, you lose channels, and they randomly drop audio and video. At least with the old way, if it came in most of the way, I could still see and hear what was going on.

    3. This was all unnecessary anyway. I don't care about opening up spectrum for other services when I am not directly benefiting in any way, shape or form by the change over. If you are seriously going to tell me that because I now have access to more channels, most of which rarely come in well after spending $20 on a box and $20+ more on rabbit ears or $40+ on a "HD" antenna, then you're wrong.

    Boo on digital TV.

    1. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1. I disagree - the amount per person is too small. It would be like one of those $1.60 checks you get in the mail for some class action settlement you'd rather not have been a member of.

      2 & 3. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. For me, I got only a few fuzzy channels before with severe ghosting and now I have all the major networks, crystal clear with only occasional drop-outs. I almost never turned on broadcast TV before, and now the picture is good enough to watch hockey. I guess this is very much a YMMV situation.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Puffy+Director+Pants · · Score: 1

      Many changes are not obviously beneficial when looked at during the initial period, but in the long run, you probably will get more out of it.

      Think of this as the construction phase of the road, they still have some work to do before it's fully paved.

    3. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Good enough to watch hockey?! Does it come with a gun to the back of your head too?

    4. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by afidel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The American public should have received a check (not a tax credit, not a credit card looking coupon, etc) for the total sale of the spectrum divided by every single citizen of this nation.

      How about NO, it costs a hell of a lot of money to print and distribute checks, better they just not charge me as much or give me more back on my rebate check. The cost of the 2008 rebate checks was $84M, personally I'd rather they save that cost and use the money to feed more poor kids or something.

      This was all unnecessary anyway. I don't care about opening up spectrum for other services when I am not directly benefiting in any way, shape or form by the change over.

      How about if your life gets save because first responders are able to talk to one another, is that good enough for you?

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    5. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by oGMo · · Score: 1

      I don't care about opening up spectrum for other services when I am not directly benefiting in any way, shape or form

      Yes, but the rest of us as a whole are. And no one cares about you anyway: you don't matter.

      --

      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    6. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      LOL. I happen to like hockey :)

      I only used it as an example because it is one of the harder things to watch without a good picture.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    7. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      There's no such thing as a "HD" antenna.

      So you think that you'll never need the help from emergency workers? Communication between them is one of the things for which the spectrum is being used.

      (I definitely agree with you about the "analog degrades gracefully" part. The convenience factor of DVDs is largely what I prefer. Though of course since you have the media, you see fewer dropouts compared to OTA.)

    8. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Gizzmonic · · Score: 5, Informative

      2. When the TV was moved to digital, it should have been better than what was offered before. Yes, the quality is better (when you can receive the signal) but most of the time (even with good equipment) the signal doesn't come in, you lose channels, and they randomly drop audio and video. At least with the old way, if it came in most of the way, I could still see and hear what was going on.

      This is the killer for me. Digital TV does not degrade gracefully. You can't get a low-res substitute if your signal starts going badly. And the use of 8VSB modulation means that stations *theoretically* can cover more distance with less power than COFDM, but it also means moving receivers are out of the question (goodbye Sony Watchman and car TV) and multipath interference (common in cities) can keep receivers from working properly.

      In the 50's and 60's, they were able to upgrade to color TV without breaking compatibility with existing black and white sets. Today, they broke compatibility and they've failed to offer enough to justify it.

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
    9. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      1. I disagree - the amount per person is too small. It would be like one of those $1.60 checks you get in the mail for some class action settlement you'd rather not have been a member of.

      Then they shouldn't have sold it. If they couldn't get enough to fully compensate the American people for their trouble, then they sold at a loss. If that's not a crime, it should be.

      BTW, they got $19.592 billion for the auction. The US population is about 305 million. That's $64.23 per person.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    10. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by stilz2 · · Score: 1

      I just help a friend, who has 10+ years old TV and antenna, set up the converter, and her family was amazed by how clear (not to mention watchable) the TV has become. OTOH, My family has one of those big antenna you stick in the attic, so reception wasn't much of an improvement for me, but the programming guide was a welcomed new feature. So, so far, the DTV transition has been a good experience.

    11. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Scyber · · Score: 1

      2. When the TV was moved to digital, it should have been better than what was offered before. Yes, the quality is better (when you can receive the signal) but most of the time (even with good equipment) the signal doesn't come in, you lose channels, and they randomly drop audio and video. At least with the old way, if it came in most of the way, I could still see and hear what was going on.

      Its my understanding that some digital broadcasts are currently limited in power to prevent interference with digital broadcasts. Once the digital transition is complete, they will be able to up the power to the towers and reception should improve. I don't know how many stations that currently applies to, but it should help reception in some cases. I'd presume that it would be more common in areas that have more stations broadcasting (in between multiple major cites, etc.).

    12. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Um, you do realize that dtv hasn't been broadcast at full power, right? It does depend upon where you live, but around here, I get more channels now that we're doing dtv than I could reasonably get with the older signals. Plus they're all watchable, which is a plus over cable.

      Starting today stations will start to broadcast their full power and we'll begin to get a better picture of what's going on.

      When things are all turned on to full power, then we'll see whether or not it's working. But it's quite difficult to know that based upon the trial offerings.

    13. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by CodeBuster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Today, they broke compatibility and they've failed to offer enough to justify it.

      I disagree. The UHF spectrum was simply to valuable for society to continue to allow a few analog TV holdouts to continue squatting on some of the most valuable parts of the EM spectrum for free or minimal cost. Part of the reason why wireless services in the United States are so behind Europe, Japan, and even China is because there are lots of legacy squatters occupying prime pieces of EM spectrum real estate for peanut change. The EM spectrum rights should go to whomever is willing to pay the public the most for them, and nowadays that is wireless telecom companies such as Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint/Nextel not grandma with her Philco black and white analog TV that she has not upgraded since 1964. if the remaining analog TV users wanted to continue using the UHF spectrum, preventing the rest of us who are willing to pay from getting next gen wireless services, then they should have bid against the telecoms in the auction. Analog TV lost because other uses are worth more to more people, plain and simple.

    14. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That's apples to oranges. Adding color to the specification was a relatively minor affair, they added color information to what they had and older televisions didn't know about it. Sort of like the move to stereo.

      But in this case, one of the big things they were solving was the problem of wasted spectrum. And yes I do mean wasted, the number of people that only receive television via the airwaves is a small fraction of the total and the spectrum does have other uses.

      At this point, we don't really know what we've gotten, with all the FUD about people that aren't bright enough to be able to plug in the box, I doubt that the media is portraying it fairly.

    15. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no such thing as a "HD" antenna.

      Really?

    16. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Toonol · · Score: 3, Interesting

      1. $13 billion in revenue; that would be around $100 per household. Not a huge amount, but not insignificant.

      2. Yes, YMMV. I get some channels with amazing reception now, and others are now unwatchable. Overall, I would rather have stayed with analog.

    17. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Scyber · · Score: 1

      ummm... I meant "to prevent interference with analog broadcasts." Woops.

    18. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by californication · · Score: 1

      The DTV coupon was for people who had a perfectly functional TV that would be rendered worthless by the digital transition. Either you pay for them to get a digital converter so their current TV continues to work or you stick with analog. Sending out a check would be a waste of money, but I'd be all for getting a refundable tax credit, just as good as a check.

    19. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Yes really. That article may have some marketing fluff in it, but even it doesn't claim that there is a difference between antenna intended for HD & analog signals.

    20. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by FingerSoup · · Score: 1

      Actually, Yes, Really. The HD channel you pick up with a set of Bunny ears looks and sounds no different than the HD Signal you receive with a so-called "HD Antenna". An "HD Antenna" picks up the same frequencies as the bunny ears. The difference, is that the HD antenna costs more because it has the words HD in it. Just because it is a better designed antenna doesn't mean it's HD... Likewise, if it improves an HD signal it will also improve an analog signal. HD Antenna is a marketing Gimmick. Boost the Antenna gain and directionalize the antenna to give it better range. That's all an "HD Antenna" does....

    21. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Of course there's such a thing as an "HD antenna". I see them sold as such all the time, despite the fact that there's absolutely no difference between it and an "analog antenna". It's all just marketing.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    22. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      The UHF spectrum was simply to valuable for society to continue to allow a few analog TV holdouts to continue squatting on some of the most valuable parts of the EM spectrum for free or minimal cost.

      You do realize, don't you, that for the last five years or so twice the amount of spectrum has been used? The old analog signal and a different channel for the digital?

      You do also realize, don't you, that the switch to digital didn't remove any stations, just moved their channel allocations around a bit?

      I.e., the same stations taking up the same bandwidth -- I mean, squatting on the same bandwidth.

      Analog TV lost because other uses are worth more to more people, plain and simple.

      No, analog TV lost for the same reason that analog tv on cable is losing: broadcasters realized they could make more money by selling more advertising on more channels than they currently had available. Instead of ONE PBS channel begging for money every other week, we can now have FOUR PBS channels begging for money every other week. Instead of ONE Ginsu knife infomercial, a station can run a Ginsu infomercial, a "purge your colon of all the nasty gunk" infomercial, a Jack LaLane Miracle Juicer infomercial, and a rerun of the Beverly Hillbillies, all at the same time.

      And cable isn't far behind in following the lead. Our wonderful Comcast is dropping all analog service from 31 to 71, replacing it with scads and scads of new digital content. Some of their digital channels have TWELVE channels on them now. They're also upping the price, just after telling all their customers who converted to digital that they were doing to at "no additional cost".

    23. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about if your life gets save because first responders are able to talk to one another, is that good enough for you?

      Oh, please. Are you arguing that any problems that first responders have talking to each other are a result of lack of spectrum? That's simply so much BS. It has more to do with lack of standardization between the various communication methods, which could have been addressed with existing spectrum.

      The only reason that the whole "emergency workers" bit was included is so that defenders of this scam can use it as a seemingly good argument. The fact is that the only real benefit this provides to anyone is to the content and broadcasting companies. The quality benefits are limited to densely populated, relatively affluent areas, The poor and rural folks get a quality downgrade.

      All that said, this is a good thing socially -- I don't know a single person who has the equipment necessary to receive DTV signals. Almost everyone who isn't already getting their TV through cable is opting to simply stop watching TV. It's a win all around!

    24. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Been a loooong long time since I watched it, but the puck's small and fast so it's difficult to see if the picture's snowy?

      Do I recall some stations added a CGI circle around it that made it look like an EA sports game, and it was more annoying than not knowing where the puck was.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    25. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Yeah, people really hated that blue circle. They've toned it down a bit so that it only comes on when the puck is hidden from view... but anyone who has watched more than just a bit of hockey can tell where the puck is by the way the players act.

      With a snowy or ghosted screen, you absolutely cannot follow the puck - or even see the stick orientation. Or at least I can't :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    26. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Digital TV does not degrade gracefully. You can't get a low-res substitute if your signal starts going badly.

      It is curious to me why they didn't select a digital encoding that would degrade gracefully.

    27. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Five+Bucks! · · Score: 1

      In Canada, people nearly shat a beaver when all of a sudden the puck in the Sens at Red Wings game started glowing with a tail when it was shot.

      Even when I was reaching for a brew I could watch the puck through the bottle. Perhaps it's one of those Canadian things, eh?

      --
      52 52'23" W 47 32'07" N
    28. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      In light of everyone else addressing you point by point, I'll pile on:

      1. You already did, except that your government, presumably elected by you (if not, then you can't complain), has already spent that money. In return, you're taxes will be raised by $x less in return. It's like a refund or a tax credit, just that the number seems the same because the tax burden went up. Wait 'til you see the increase when they have to pay off the current stimulus! (hopefully, your reduced losses in the market will offset the increase).

      2. Anecdotal evidence of poor reception is unacceptable. Just as my evidence that both my signal quality and the number of viewable channels has increased. There are winners and losers everywhere. I suggest to look into a good UHF antenna.

      3. Maybe you missed the part about more effective spectrum now being available for emergency services. Of course, I'm sure you don't need those, but if you do you'll be happy for any efficiency they can realize since your life just might depend on it.

      Now, if you want to talk about how the FCC totally fucked up the process starting back in the 80s, I'll grab a pitchfork and a torch and march with you.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    29. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by TheSync · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And the use of 8VSB modulation means that stations *theoretically* can cover more distance with less power than COFDM, but it also means moving receivers are out of the question

      ATSC-M/H has been developed to allow existing ATSC (8VSB) stations to also deliver signals to moving receivers (M/H means mobile/handheld). It basically throws a ton of FEC on the low-bitrate M/H signal.

    30. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Dahan · · Score: 1

      The UHF spectrum was simply to valuable for society to continue to allow a few analog TV holdouts to continue squatting on some of the most valuable parts of the EM spectrum for free or minimal cost.

      You do also realize, don't you, that the switch to digital didn't remove any stations, just moved their channel allocations around a bit?

      Yes, moved their allocations around a bit... moved them out of the most valuable parts of the EM spectrum: former UHF channels 52-69 (698 MHz-806 MHz; i.e., the 700 MHz band)

    31. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Cue Andy Rooney voice*

      As I have said time and time again, this has been a gigantic clusterfuck of enormous proportions.

      1. The American public should have received a check (not a tax credit, not a credit card looking coupon, etc) for the total sale of the spectrum divided by every single citizen of this nation.

      2. When the TV was moved to digital, it should have been better than what was offered before. Yes, the quality is better (when you can receive the signal) but most of the time (even with good equipment) the signal doesn't come in, you lose channels, and they randomly drop audio and video. At least with the old way, if it came in most of the way, I could still see and hear what was going on.

      3. This was all unnecessary anyway. I don't care about opening up spectrum for other services when I am not directly benefiting in any way, shape or form by the change over. If you are seriously going to tell me that because I now have access to more channels, most of which rarely come in well after spending $20 on a box and $20+ more on rabbit ears or $40+ on a "HD" antenna, then you're wrong.

      Boo on digital TV.

    32. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Informative

      If they couldn't get enough to fully compensate the American people for their trouble, then they sold at a loss

      It's not worth sending me a check for $64, only to take it away again on April 15.

      I think that they made the right compromise - they more or less compensated people who were impacted by offering box coupons, they freed up additional spectrum for other uses, and they made some dough in the process.

      Plus, it's a nice reminder of why you don't want government running everything.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    33. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by fyrewulff · · Score: 1

      To be fair, that thing was unviewable on most TVs of the time. (you have to remember that any moment, a majority of TVs are going to be >6 years old). It's kind of like when you see old 70s/80s/early 90s video content and it's all fuzzy and poor sound quality. But now that everyone has upgraded their equipment, even on the same SDTV technology everything became a lot more visible. I mean, look at old football broadcasts where the score was superimposed in a block Arial-ish font with yellow text on a screen between plays, with the rest of the broadcast having no overlay. Today with the same SDTV tech, they have the score, down, clock, and even information on other sports/games going on. Resolution didn't get bigger, but the broadcasting equipment got better.

      --
      "We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
    34. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by pjbgravely · · Score: 1

      First, there is no such thing as an HD antenna, unless they started making ones that only go to channel 51.

      Second, you won't know what you can get until all analog is off. Some digital stations are not at full power, and some are being interfered with by strong analog stations. I want to see if I can get NBC on a digital station, but I have to wait until the next channel up analog goes off the air to be sure I can get it.

      --
      Star Trek, there maybe hope.
    35. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Nethead · · Score: 1

      and Public Service radio is going to move to 700MHz, where they already took some of the UHF TV spectrum away. VHF and UHF PS radio is more worried about the narrowbanding directive right now, which will give them double the spectrum.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    36. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 1

      I don't care about opening up spectrum for other services when I am not directly benefiting in any way, shape or form by the change over.

      Use of some of those services would involve, for example, fire engines on your front lawn using that radio spectrum to coordinate the spraying of water into the cellar-hole where your house was.

      So I hope you never need to benefit from those lost radio frequencies.

      --
      There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
    37. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      dont forget they're running on low power until the cutover.

    38. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      $40 on an HD antenna? Wow you in the middle of all the transmitters?

      I needed $290.00 in antenna gear upgrades to receive the same channels I was getting in Analog. you must be lucky to be in the middle of all the TV station transmitters. Cuz most of us need to pay out the arse for antennas and preamps up on a taller tower to get all the stations I used to get.

      What I get is BETTER, but most people around here will lose CBS and NBC. BUT the two religious channels are now in HD and clearer than ever!

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    39. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by MushMouth · · Score: 1

      I'm interested in this, but have only heard about it here, and the couple of interweb searches haven't enlightened me any more, so could you?

    40. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by westlake · · Score: 1
      At least with the old way, if it came in most of the way, I could still see and hear what was going on.

      The "old way" began when you unfolded the Winegard antenna on a roof with a 45 degree pitch and a thirty foot drop and ended when you pounded in a ground stake with a sledgehammer until you were a candidate for cardiac arrest.

      In labor and materials you had as big an investment in the antenna as you had in your 20" RCA - and one that paid dividends for many years after.

      Digital has been broadcast at greatly reduced power.

      If you want good reception now - and better reception later - you have to work for it - just as your grandad did for analog.

    41. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You said pre-amps? You misssed the digital part, right? You get it or you don't, this ain't CB or Shortwave. You can't "boost" a signal that isn't already there. You can't make up a signal you don't already get my "amping" it... more noise ontop of noise.

      Or you could just get cable.

    42. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And every time a bloody pizza hut moped goes past all channels lose signal :-(

    43. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      A pre-amp PRE amplifies the ANALOG RF signal that the DIGITAL TV SIGNAL is on from the antenna and boosts it's signal level down the wire so I dont get antenna lead in loss. This removes the 4DB loss my 100 feet of RG6Quad give me to my headend distribution node in the home. at that point I take the signal and re-amplify it to the 8 way distribution amp to make sure I have the best signal at the sets that takes that ANALOG SIGNAL and decode the ATSC to Digital video and audio.

      I suggest you learn about how antennas, tv's and HDTV works before you go running around correcting people. You really don't understand anything at all about how this stuff works.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    44. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      (1) 20 billion dollars divided by 110 million homes == about $180 per home. In reality the coupons were limited to just 2 billion dollarw, and the other 18 billion went to pay off the debt. (cough)

      (2) Yes. With analog I received around 20 stations, but digital only gives me 10 stations. The stations I lost were marginal but at least they were watchable, and so I've lost access to the stations that shows the Orioles and Phillies games. :-(

      On the other hand, digital allowed me to gain some stuff, like a movie channel on 8-2, a retro channel on 27-2, so 20 downto 12 is not too bad a compromise.

      (3) It's too early to know what channels 52-to-69 will yield, but selling off channels 70 to 83 is what led to the convenience of cellphones/wireless internet, and I think most people agree we're better off with these wireless gadgets than without.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    45. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by JamesP · · Score: 1

      This is the killer for me. Digital TV does not degrade gracefully. You can't get a low-res substitute if your signal starts going badly. And the use of 8VSB modulation means that stations *theoretically* can cover more distance with less power than COFDM, but it also means moving receivers are out of the question (goodbye Sony Watchman and car TV)

      Funny you mention that.

      Read about 1-Seg in ISDB-T (in Japan in Brazil) Basically, in theory, it is for mobile applications, in practice, it works as a low-res fall-back.

      Yes, it's not the prettiest picture in the world, but it is really hard not to get the signal

      (Disclaimer: I work with this stuff)

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    46. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>You do realize, don't you, that for the last five years or so twice the amount of spectrum has been used?

      False. The TV band occupied channels 2 to 69 during the analog era, and channels 2-69 during the analog-digital transition era (1999-2009). It was exactly the same amount of spectrum used, not twice as you falsely claimed.

      >>>the switch to digital didn't remove any stations, just moved their channel allocations around a bit?

      Again false. The TV band post-June shrinks from 67 channels downto just 49 channels. That's a 26% reduction in spectrum used by the television service, thereby freeing-up spectrum for other uses.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    47. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NEEEEEIIIIINNN!!!!!

    48. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      The rights of the individual don't matter???

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    49. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      It would require sending a duplicate image in lower resolution, which would be wasteful. I think it should be possible to redesign today's converters to make a "best guess" when errors occur, similar to how the human brain operates when watching a blurry analog image.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    50. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>2. Anecdotal evidence of poor reception is unacceptable.

      According to tvfool.org, after the analog-to-digital transition Americans will have an average loss of 2 stations. This is based upon computer simulation, which tends to be overly optimistic, so the real world loss may have as high as 4 stations fewer.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    51. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>You said pre-amps? You misssed the digital part, right? You get it or you don't, this ain't CB or Shortwave. You can't "boost" a signal that isn't already there. You can't make up a signal you don't already get my "amping" it...

      What a dumb shit.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    52. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Bzzzz. The old way I could get around 20 analog stations with just a pair of VHF rabbit ears + UHF loop. The new way only gets 3 digital stations, therefore I needed to buy a big unwieldy rooftop antenna, and install it. Even then I still only get 10 digital channels.

      DTV is inferior because it is (a) harder to receive and (b) provides less variety (fewer stations).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    53. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      The "700 MHz band" is no more valuable than "the 600 MHz band" or "the 800 MHz band." It's still 100 MHz of bandwidth, it is still bandwidth being used by those awful analog squatters who get it for almost nothing. It is only valuable because someone (Nextel, Sprint, etc.) will pay for it.

    54. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      When I said "twice the amount", I was referring to the fact that there were twice the number of 6MHz chunks being used for television, not that the spectrum suddenly went from 50 to 1400 MHz. I thought that would be obvious from the context.

      >>>the switch to digital didn't remove any stations, just moved their channel allocations around a bit?

      Again false. The TV band post-June shrinks from 67 channels downto just 49 channels.

      No, quite true. The number of STATIONS is the same. Nobody lost their licenses to transmit. The only thing that happened was they may have moved which 6 MHz chunk of spectrum they were authorized to use after Feb. 17. I didn't say the "number of channels", I said very explcitly the number of STATIONS.

      While the amount of spectrum used in total has gone down by overlaying stations, the NUMBER of those awful squatters sucking up spectrum has not. That's the comment I was replying to.

    55. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      You're discussing number of stations inside the TV band. WE (me and the great-great-grandparent poster) are discussing the spectrum. TV used to occupy the channel 2 to 69 spectrum, and even with the analog/digital doubling of stations, STILL occupies the same amount of spectrum. However after June it will only occupy the 2 to 51 spectrum, therefore the spectrum has shrunk and room is available for other services above channel 51.

      If you're still confused, reread what the guy said: "The UHF spectrum was simply to valuable for society to continue to allow a few analog TV holdouts to continue squatting on some of the most valuable parts of the EM spectrum for free or minimal cost." He's not discussing how many stations. He's discussing spectrum space. In other words, he's saying the UHF spectrum is valuable, therefore the TV spectrum will be shrunk by 26% to make room for other stuff.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    56. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      The 700 megahertz band is valuable because it propagates a longer distance than the gigahertz bands being used by current cellphones & wireless internet standards, requires less power, and uses a relatively small antenna (1-2 inches). Therefore it is MORE valuable than most of the other sections, for the task desired.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    57. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      You're discussing number of stations inside the TV band.

      That's right. That's because the statement I replied to said:

      The UHF spectrum was simply to [sic] valuable for society to continue to allow a few analog TV holdouts to continue squatting on some of the most valuable parts of the EM spectrum for free or minimal cost.

      "Few" is a statement of number. One, ten, one hundred. The same number of squatters are there using the same sized pieces of the "most valuable" spectrum. And, as I pointed out, during the changeover, since each analog station had a digital counterpart (except for a few exceptions), there were twice as many chunks being used as before. And, as I pointed out, after the changeover completes, whether that is 2009 or 2900, there will be the same number of six megahertz chunks being used as before. And, as I already pointed out, the only difference is that some of the users have moved to a different channel. They didn't go away or give up space.

      Further, I didn't point out but will now, these "analog holdouts" were broadcasting in analog because THAT IS WHAT WAS LEGAL. That's what their licenses said they were supposed to broadcast in. Nobody was broadcasting digital television until the FCC decided that the change was going to happen and these are the technical standards to use. Calling them "analog holdouts" and squatters is simply ridiculous.

      If you're still confused, reread what the guy said:

      I suggest you reread what I replied to. When you figure out how the NUMBER of squatters has changed, you let me know, ok? Otherwise, give it a rest. If your only goal is to prove that stations MOVED AROUND, well, I said that from the start, so what are you arguing about? It's a fact.

    58. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      The "700 MHz band" is no more valuable than the 800 MHz band which has just about the same properties as the 700 MHz band, which has about the same properties as the 600 MHz band.

      If you want to argue the size of antenna, well, you lose there, too, because 700 MHz band antennas are more than three times the size of a 2.4GHz antenna of the same kind. You can fit an 18dB Yagi for 2.4GHz into about the same space as a half wave dipole at 700 MHz, and the dipole has 0 dBd gain.

      Just what is it that you are trying to prove?

    59. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>If your only goal is to prove that stations MOVED AROUND, well, I said that from the start, so what are you arguing about?

      Ahhh I see.

      But when these "squatters" convert from analog-to-digital, they can be compacted into only half as much space because now the stations can sit side-by-side rather than need a one channel gap between them. In thoery that's a 50% reduction in size of the TV band, although in practice Congress only did a 26% reduction. Still, that's what the previous poster meant when he said the A-to-D conversion frees-up valuable UHF spectrum.

      For you to sit here and pretend that the TV band has not shrunk ("They didn't go away or give up space") is disingenuous and misleading to other readers. The TV band *did* shrink. Channels were lost.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    60. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I made it quite clear why companies want access to the UHF frequencies, and not VHF (antenna too large), or gigahertz frequencies (travel distance is too short). UHF provides a happy medium with multi-mile communication while still keeping antennas relatively small, thereby enabling a wireless internet or cellphone network. UHF can fulfill the goal that WiFi failed to do, due to WiFi's poor location on the spectrum.

      >>>Just what is it that you are trying to prove?

      That you are misleading the readers with false information with you claims that that TV band has not shrunk in size, or that UHF is not a desirable piece of the spectrum. You are akin to those people who think we should still be using horses-and-buggies instead of cars. A Luddite.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    61. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      But when these "squatters" ...

      They aren't squatters. They have FCC issued licenses to use the channels to which they have been assigned. You may not like broadcast TV, but that doesn't make them unethical for simply existing.

      For you to sit here and pretend that the TV band has not shrunk ...

      I didn't pretend any such thing. I said the NUMBERS OF STATIONS DID NOT GO DOWN. Please look up the words you don't understand before posting to /., ok?

    62. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Obfuscant · · Score: 1
      I made it quite clear why companies want access to the UHF frequencies, and not VHF (antenna too large), or gigahertz frequencies (travel distance is too short).

      No, you made some incorrect claims about why the 700 MHz band is so valuable compared to other spectrum space. It is not much different than 600 or 800, and the antennas are actually LARGER than those used at 2.4GHz, not smaller.

      That you are misleading the readers with false information with you claims that that TV band has not shrunk in size,

      I've made no such claim and I tire of you misreading what I have said and then jumping down my throat for it.

      or that UHF is not a desirable piece of the spectrum.

      Nor did I say that. I said that the "700 MHz band" is no more valuable than the 600 or 800 bands, your claims to the contrary notwithstanding. (That means "despite what you have claimed"). The reason people are scrambling for allocations in "the 700 MHz band" is not because of it's technically outstanding qualities, it's because THAT'S THE SPECTRUM AVAILABLE. 600 and 800 are taken. 700 is now available. It's available not because 700 MHz has such great propagation compared to 600 or 800, nor because the antennas are smaller than 2.4GHz (they aren't), but simply because it was possible to MOVE THE EXISTING STATIONS USING IT. The NUMBER of stations did not go down, and when the claim is made that "a few" stations were doing something, that's a claim about NUMBERS. Please buy a clue, ok?

      Nor is it true that you can plop two stations right next to each other physically and in frequency space. The guard bands can be less than they used to be simply because we've had decades of experience designing receivers and better components. They still can't sell a TV that prevents interference from signals that are too close and too strong, though, because people won't pay for the metal chassis and extra filtering that would take.

      UHF can fulfill the goal that WiFi failed to do, due to WiFi's poor location on the spectrum.

      That depends on what you think WiFi's goal was. No, it wasn't to provide long range networking. WiFi was intended to be short range. Period. That's why it is perfectly at home at 2.4GHz, even though people are trying to extend it beyond design limits. That's why WiFi cards in computers are limited in the power they put out -- power levels that preclude any serious long range connections.

      Now, there ARE people working with long-range "WiFi", but they've mostly stopped as far as I can tell. They didn't stop because it didn't work, but because they are legally prohibited from encrypting their traffic over those links and there are too many assholes who love breaking what other people are doing and ruining things for decent people. Look up the term "HSMM" if you want more info.

      Nor is 700 MHz necessary for providing cellular internet connections. We already HAVE cellular internet connectivity. The part that is missing is the cell tower coverage, not the frequencies. You don't need more frequencies to put towers out in the vast untapped wilderness. You need money from people who want the service. Guess what? A lot of people who live in the wilderness do so because they eschew big-city nonsense -- like wireless internet.

      You are akin to those people who think we should still be using horses-and-buggies instead of cars. A Luddite.

      Your inability to read a simple declarative sentence does not make me a luddite. Now if you have something constructive to add, please do so. As it stands, my statement that the numbers of stations have not gone down, and were effectively doubled during the transition, are a fact that you've yet to counter. I did not speak to the size of the band allocated to broadcast TV, nor did I claim that the spectrum that was freed by moving some stations around was worthless. If all you want to do is argue with me about those latter two concepts (that means "the last two things I said"), then please stop. You're winning an argument that I'm not disputing.

    63. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The UHF spectrum was simply to valuable for society to continue to allow a few analog TV holdouts to continue squatting on some of the most valuable parts of the EM spectrum for free or minimal cost.

      How times change. Some years back, PBS had numerous stations in the San Francisco area. KQED had VHF 9 and UHF 32.

      You should have heard the bitching and weeping every time the licenses came up for renewal. The commercial broadcasters harrumphed their way through FCC hearings whining, "Why is this valuable VHF spectrum being pissed away on a non-profit operation? We can make a profit on that real estate, so we should have the superior right to it. By God, it's an abomination and a waste of the nation's resources for them to use what we want (for free) , especially when they have their little dirt farm out in the UHF space. To hell with this idea of the public's airwaves."

      Fortunately their rapaciousness didn't prevail. In fact, KQED only lost UHF 32 in a later licensing fight when a minority coalition complained of lack of balance or some such. Since that time the channel has had generally meaningless programming and changes hands or format every year or two for the past 20 years or so.

      Of course a lot of that attitude changed when the govt was persuaded to "monetize" all the public resources in America. Every goddamned little county park must "pay its own way" or be turned over to be whored out to developers. Any public resource is to be sold off, since the swells have no need for public facilities. They have their own moherfucking yachts and don't have need of low-cost rental watercraft (even rowboats) on public lakes.

      I AM my brother's keeper and you can kiss my asshole if you don't like it.

      Fuck the greedy bastards.

    64. Re:My biggest problem with all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have the worst signature I've ever seen on slashdot. Really. Do you think you're being clever or funny?

  5. Blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So some poor people won't get to watch their "stories". They should be looking for work anyway.

  6. Revolt by evil_aar0n · · Score: 5, Funny

    Frankly, I see something like this - the disruption of TV - as one of very few events that could get people off their butts to do something about their government. Spy on their phone calls? Eh... Take away their American Idol? Riot in the streets.

    --
    Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    1. Re:Revolt by bfwebster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you've never read it, go read "The Machine Stops" by E. M. Forster. It was published 100 years ago and still remains remarkably relevant and prescient. ..bruce..

      --
      Bruce F. Webster (brucefwebster.com)
    2. Re:Revolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Good point. Americans are likely to get extremely angry when [1] they can't watch TV, and [2] the price of gas breaks a psychological barrier, like $2. The problems?

      - What percentage of Americans receive their TV over the air?

      - Congress is currently experiencing approval ratings rivaling David Duke at the Million Man March, yet over 90% of the current Congress was re-elected. I voted 100% anti-incumbent this fall, and maybe Americans should wake the freak up and stop just voting party lines. Congress is well aware of this: they can do anything [and I mean, ANYTHING], and they WILL get re-elected.

    3. Re:Revolt by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but imagine if this cut off TV AND backed up traffic. There'd be mobs with torches and pitchforks.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    4. Re:Revolt by __aagmrb7289 · · Score: 1

      Don't worry. If it DOES finally get people off their fat asses (mine included), they'll probably die of a coronary before they can do anything with their "rage". It's hard to riot when you get winded walking to the damn fridge.

    5. Re:Revolt by RudeIota · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Congress is currently experiencing approval ratings rivaling David Duke at the Million Man March

      I'd just like to point out that Congressional approval polls mean nothing.

      Approval ratings taken by random, national samplings will yield nothing but unresearched opinions based on shallow news coverage and your average person's limited understanding even what congress does. I doubt even 50% of the people polled even understand that Congress and Senate are part of the same government branch, let alone have a meaningful, formulated opinion based on actually performance.

      --
      Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
    6. Re:Revolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I teach "The Machine Stops" every year in my CS0 course for non-CS majors. I pair it up with "Moxon's Monster" for a treat. Great stories.

    7. Re:Revolt by evil_aar0n · · Score: 1

      Wow. Reminds me of Wall-E, "Repent, Harlequin, Said the TickTockMan," and, of course, "The Matrix." Thanks for that.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    8. Re:Revolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Do you realize quite how annoying it is to sign your post? Especially when your name is just below your subject? And in your signature?

    9. Re:Revolt by jalefkowit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I doubt even 50% of the people polled even understand that Congress and Senate are part of the same government branch...

      Actually, it's the House of Representatives and the Senate that are part of the same government branch, which is collectively referred to as the United States Congress.

      If you're going to be calling half the people in the country idiots, make sure you're in the other half first ;-)

    10. Re:Revolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're going to be calling half the people in the country idiots, make sure you're in the other half first ;-)

      Hey, he was being honest!

    11. Re:Revolt by redmond · · Score: 1

      I doubt even 50% of the people polled even understand that Congress and Senate are part of the same government branch

      Okay not to be a troll, but if you are going to make a point about the ignorance of the masses, at least get it right. Congress is made up of two houses, the House of Representatives and the Senate.

      --
      :wq
    12. Re:Revolt by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Actually 33.3% of the country is technically idiots based on the bell curve. (IQ 90) but a large number of them like to act like idiots, are horribly under educated, married to idiots and have to not act smarter than them and or are just plain old apathetic.

      That pushes the number of apparent idiot to well over 50%. This accounts for the observed idiocy as seen by people in cars, online, in stores, etc...

      Problem is that as the income goes up the idiocy level increases after a certain point. This is specially observable in legacy rich people with the idiocy increasing as the number of generations that increase between the creator of the money and the hasn't worked a day in his life looking to be a senator type.

      It was all laid out in the last 3 issues of Scientific American, I cant believe all of you missed it.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    13. Re:Revolt by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      I've read "The Machine Stops" in junior high. It's taught in literature class.

      But I can't beat the AC who teaches "The Machine Stops" every year. Beaten again! Oh well...

    14. Re:Revolt by troll8901 · · Score: 1

      It was all laid out in the last 3 issues of Scientific American, I cant believe all of you missed it.

      I was reading the American Journal of Mathematics, you insensitive clod!

    15. Re:Revolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      he's leading by example...or something.

    16. Re:Revolt by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Almost as annoying as having an AC pointlessly commenting on it thereby clogging up the thread?

    17. Re:Revolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question is which is the bigger half.

    18. Re:Revolt by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      I missed it because I wasn't wasting my time with Scientific American. I read real magazines.

      Only half-joking. Sorry

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
  7. You'll Thank me Later by castorvx · · Score: 4, Funny

    Turn off your phones. Grandma is calling.

    1. Re:You'll Thank me Later by Samschnooks · · Score: 4, Funny

      Grandma has cable - no worries.

  8. Cable Guy Reference... by HockeyPuck · · Score: 1

    At the end of Jim Carrey's movie, The Cable Guy; all local TV is knocked out... and people start to find enjoyment by reading books, sitting down to dinner together and doing activities besides TV...

    You will NOT die if you don't watch Wheel of Fortune or your favorite soap opera...

    1. Re:Cable Guy Reference... by kbielefe · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't know...the rate of people who abruptly stop watching TV the day they die is alarmingly high. I'm not ready to take that risk.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    2. Re:Cable Guy Reference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      tag correlationisnotcausation!
      tag correlationisnotcausation!
      tag correlationisnotcausation!

    3. Re:Cable Guy Reference... by Maestro485 · · Score: 1

      Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy are, to me, what Battlestar Galactica is to you. They're actually more like crossword puzzles as far as the major networks go. Jeopardy in particular is quite difficult to 'play along at home' with.

      And unlike you, I can't download the torrent because everyone who watches those shows is like 90 ;)

      (I'm 24, FYI)

    4. Re:Cable Guy Reference... by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wapner. 12 minutes to Wapner. Must watch Wapner. People's Court. Eight minutes to Wapner. - We got eight minutes to Wapner.

    5. Re:Cable Guy Reference... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Repeat after me... correlation is not causation.

  9. I managed to survive 10 years without a TV... by bfwebster · · Score: 1

    ...somehow I think our society will survive the demise of analog TV broadcasting. In fact, it might actually be improved thereby.

    ObDisc: I currently have satellite TV and a large-screen HD TV. On the other hand, I watch very little TV -- maybe 2-3 shows/week, if that much. Most of the rest of the time, I have one of the 24-hour cable news channels on and the sound off -- sort of a big-screen RSS feed in my living room. ..bruce..

    --
    Bruce F. Webster (brucefwebster.com)
    1. Re:I managed to survive 10 years without a TV... by mweather · · Score: 1

      I currently have satellite TV and a large-screen HD TV. On the other hand, I watch very little TV -- maybe 2-3 shows/week, if that much.

      Sounds like a waste of money. You should cancel the satellite and just rent from Amazon.

    2. Re:I managed to survive 10 years without a TV... by KylePflug · · Score: 2, Funny

      You sure the waste of money isn't that he is running a 50-inch rss-reader in his living room?

    3. Re:I managed to survive 10 years without a TV... by bfwebster · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a waste of money. You should cancel the satellite and just rent from Amazon.

      Well, my 'net connection is wide-area wireless, which gives me DSL speeds but less-than-DSL QOS. (We live in a semi-rural area about 25 miles from downtown Denver, and neither DSL nor cable are available at the house we rent). So streaming/downloading video isn't all that great.

      That said, I really am moving towards your suggestion. I reeeally like watching football in HD, but I could live without it. And I suspect I'd get more work done. ..bruce..

      --
      Bruce F. Webster (brucefwebster.com)
    4. Re:I managed to survive 10 years without a TV... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I managed to survive 10 years without a TV

      Sure, but how long did you go without telling someone you didn't have a TV?

    5. Re:I managed to survive 10 years without a TV... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could just go over-the-air, unless you're one of the people that can't figure out how to get their digital tv going. ..Anonymous Coward..

      --
      Anonymous Coward (anonymouscoward.com)

  10. Honey... by lymond01 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Honey, signal's out. Could ya give the betamax a kick?

  11. Why keep pushing back the deadline by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If grandma hasn't upgraded the old Philco black & white by now, she probably never will (until forced). As for the coupons, there was no reason they couldn't have extended the coupon program but still kept the original timeline.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Why keep pushing back the deadline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because Obama's advisor for the DTV transition works for a company that benefits from the delay. Until that chunk of the spectrum becomes available to the people who paid for it (mainly Verizon & AT&T), his company has less competition.

    2. Re:Why keep pushing back the deadline by unitron · · Score: 1

      As for the coupons, there was no reason they couldn't have extended the coupon program but still kept the original timeline.

      No reason except all of the money allocated by Congress for the program was out in the form of coupons and no more was available and won't be until they find out how many coupons got redeemed and how many went unused and can be re-issued.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    3. Re:Why keep pushing back the deadline by virtual_mps · · Score: 1

      As for the coupons, there was no reason they couldn't have extended the coupon program but still kept the original timeline.

      No reason except all of the money allocated by Congress for the program was out in the form of coupons and no more was available and won't be until they find out how many coupons got redeemed and how many went unused and can be re-issued.

      So your theory is that congress couldn't authorize a few million more for the converter box program? They just spent a trillion dollars they didn't have, I'm sure they could have tossed out a few more coupons.

    4. Re:Why keep pushing back the deadline by unitron · · Score: 1

      My theory is that if the FCC (or whichever chunk of the Executive Branch is running the coupon dealie) had gone to Congress for said extra money, Congress would still be debating it.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    5. Re:Why keep pushing back the deadline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      A company called Sprint.

      Let's name names here.

      Specifically, Sprint's wireless internet service has no competition from Verizon until the DTV transition happens, because Verizon can't use the spectrum they purchased to use for their (superior) service until after the transition happens.

    6. Re:Why keep pushing back the deadline by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      Like I said, they could have still continued to authorize coupons without pushing back the timeline for the actual transition. If they want to keep pushing it back until every conceivable person that needs or wants a coupon actually has one in hand, we're still going to be sitting here several years from now waiting for our improved wireless service.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    7. Re:Why keep pushing back the deadline by unitron · · Score: 1

      When you say "they", do you mean the Executive Branch, charged with making it happen, or the Legislative Branch, which is the only one which can authorize letting the Executive Branch pledge to honor any extra coupons?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  12. Across the country? by mrphoton · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Across the country" Which country? My analog TV here in the UK is still working fine.

    1. Re:Across the country? by Curtman · · Score: 2, Funny

      My analog TV here in the UK is still working fine.

      All is well with my TV in Canada as well.. Hoorah for the commonwealth. :)

    2. Re:Across the country? by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, since you're reading the news on an American website, and news of the digital TV switch has been all over American news for years, simple deductive reasoning would lead you to believe the country they're talking about is obviously Uzbekistan.

    3. Re:Across the country? by tenco · · Score: 2, Informative

      Germany already switched to digital TV between 2002 and 2008. Austria did this betweenn 2006 and 2007. And in Switzerland the switch was done in 2007. And I don't see why this is a big deal. If there's something which is a clusterfuck, it's analog TV transmission techology.

    4. Re:Across the country? by keeboo · · Score: 1

      Well, since you're reading the news on an American website(...)

      Hmm... People love to write that, but where did you get the information the site is U.S.-only?
      The Slashdot's first-level domain is not a .us, neither I see the main page stating the site's scope is not world-wide.

    5. Re:Across the country? by Fred+Or+Alive · · Score: 1

      Actually, a few bits of the UK have switched to digital only the switchover starter last year, but so far it's basicaly one main transmitter (Selkirk and it's relays in the Border region) and a couple of relays as that switched as tests (Ferryside in Wales, and Whitehaven in the Border region) that have switched as of now. Everywhere in the UK will be digital by the end of 2012.

      --
      10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
      20 GOTO 10
    6. Re:Across the country? by eln · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's pretty clearly stated in the FAQ

    7. Re:Across the country? by moniker127 · · Score: 1

      Silly brit, assumed nationalities are for americans!

    8. Re:Across the country? by FingerSoup · · Score: 1

      Just wait until August 31, 2011. That's when Canada switches over...

      Likewise, The US switch affects border towns. I'm sure there's a lot of people south of Toronto, that can't get FOX through their antenna anymore.

      In Fact, Canada has no proposed coupon/Digital TV upgrade offer. Canadians pay full price for the box, and that's the end of it... So, thanks to the US transition not being in sync with the Canadian Transition, Canadians are affected twice. BOHICA

    9. Re:Across the country? by mrphoton · · Score: 0

      Having read the FAQ, I found out that not only is this a US centric web site, but more interestingly..... There is a Japanese version of slashdot, slashdot.jp. How cool is that - I think shashdot looks funkier in Japanese! Am I the only one who did not know this?

    10. Re:Across the country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you mean, it's an American website? Here I am, sitting in Kansis, you know, where the Kentucky Derby is run, which is part of the USA and not America! And we're been forced to switch too! Stupid Americans, I wish they'd go back to New Mexico where they belong!

    11. Re:Across the country? by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nobody said US-only. It's a lot simpler to make up a point than to actually make one, isn't it?

    12. Re:Across the country? by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes of course. Assholes from Uzbekistan! You be right, you friend of gloriful nation of Kazakhstan!

    13. Re:Across the country? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      We can't even get people to read the article and you expect someone to read the faq? By the way, what does it say?

    14. Re:Across the country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cool...Japanese slashdot

      News for nerds, Stuff in Jinglish

    15. Re:Across the country? by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      Having read the FAQ, I found out that not only is this a US centric web site, but more interestingly..... There is a Japanese version of slashdot, slashdot.jp. How cool is that - I think shashdot looks funkier in Japanese!

      Ah, but it makes more sense if you view it like this.

      Erm... then again, maybe not.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    16. Re:Across the country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh no, people who say "hoose" instead of "house" and other gibberish are going to be afflicted by this? Tell those American Juniors to suck it up.

    17. Re:Across the country? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      All is well with my TV in Canada as well..

      Not if you live in a border town with a good antenna that pulls in the US stations. I grew up in Vancouver in a house on a big hill, and when I was a kid we had an antenna on the roof that did a very good job of pulling in TV from Washington state.

      In fact, these days I wish I still could do this - I'm tired with the CRTC mandate of overwriting an American feed with a Canadian one if they're both broadcasting the same show. Time and time again it screws up.

    18. Re:Across the country? by Alrescha · · Score: 1

      "It's a lot simpler to make up a point than to actually make one, isn't it?"

      And me without mod points. Damn.

      A.

      --
      ...bringing you cynical quips since 1998
    19. Re:Across the country? by Teun · · Score: 1
      Yes a good question, in this country analogue TV was finally switched off on the 11th. of December 2006.

      As you can read in this link we had our delays.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    20. Re:Across the country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should move to Slashdot.org.us then ...

    21. Re:Across the country? by Curtman · · Score: 1

      In Fact, Canada has no proposed coupon/Digital TV upgrade offer.

      And people call us socialist. There's no better way to socialize people than through TV.

    22. Re:Across the country? by Curtman · · Score: 1

      I'm tired with the CRTC mandate of overwriting an American feed with a Canadian one if they're both broadcasting the same show.

      How do you even know it's happening?

    23. Re:Across the country? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Our region is switching in November. The extent of the publicity has been some adverts on buses.

      OTOH with almost everyone having either an STB or digital TV (nobody has sold analogue TVs for a couple of years now) and STBs so cheap they're practically given away with cornflakes if anyone gets taken by surprise they really haven't been paying attention.

      The complex nature of the broadcast network in the UK means we can't all switch at once.. there used to be a flash game where you could try to work out the optimal order (you have the switch off analogue and switch digital to full power stages, both of which must be performed in such a way that nobody loses signal and frequencies don't interfere with other transmitters in the UK or northern France).

    24. Re:Across the country? by Mr.+DOS · · Score: 1

      Honestly, I wish the switchover was closer. (Mind you, I'm probably one of about three who feels this way.) It's mostly for selfish reasons - analog reception where I am isn't so hot (I get CBC in English and French and CTV; none of them have great reception and CBC in English is fairly poor) and digital would, presumably, make things all better.

      Well, except for the receiver box. Which I could care less about. Hey, it's still less than it would be in time to put up a TV tower! (Whoo boy, did I just say "TV tower"? Has anyone used one of those for its intended purpose since 1993?)

            --- Mr. DOS

    25. Re:Across the country? by MadMidnightBomber · · Score: 1

      Based on a random sampling the last few times I was in the US, no TV would be a significant improvement.

      --
      "It doesn't cost enough, and it makes too much sense."
    26. Re:Across the country? by MemoryDragon · · Score: 2, Informative

      I agree here, I live in austria and the switchover was absolutely painless. We also hat a coupon system where everyone got a 70 Euro coupon or so, you could get the cheapest receivers exactly at that price. Benefits, in many areas the reception now is way better and cheap DVB-T sticks are basically now available in every supermarket.
      Downside, I have yet to see one, except that the national television station lost a lot of viewers (mostly older people were still watching air only, and those are in a huge degree incompetent to tune in their tv) because suddenly they had more stations and could reach the private stations which they never had tuned in.

      But the situation here is differently. Cable is way cheaper and 1/3rd of all households has already a satellite dish because we in the past had only two channels and people started to switch over to cable and satellite asap (in the 70s and 80s) to get out of this misery. The only ones left with a houshold antenna mostly were elderly people!

      I guess it depends on many factors, but overally the situation here is quite good with DTV, the reception definitely is better. The picture quality is good but not that much of a huge jump since PAL never had the issues of NTSC!

    27. Re:Across the country? by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Oh no, people who say "hoose" instead of "house" and other gibberish

      Actually they say "moose" instead of "mouse" :-)

    28. Re:Across the country? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Usually the dead giveaway is either a) the station bug changing from Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS or whatever to CTV, CBC or Global, and b) the commercials all magically becoming Canadian.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    29. Re:Across the country? by Curtman · · Score: 1

      What I'm getting at is, what difference does it make? Why does it frustrate you that you don't see advertising for some other non-local market? Why would you want to see that instead of something a little more relevant to you?

      Apparently there is some really fantastic advertising during the superbowl you might miss, but I'd recommend watching those on Youtube the next day if it upsets you.

    30. Re:Across the country? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Doesn't upset me, particularly. At least, not the advertisments. The main problem is when they cut the feed in late, or chop it early. Usually when the American show is timed to end at, say, 9:02 to fark up PVRs, but the Canadian feed switches to a new show right at 10. Like say Global is playing House from Fox at 8 PM, then 24 from NBC at 9 PM.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    31. Re:Across the country? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      What I'm getting at is, what difference does it make? Why does it frustrate you that you don't see advertising for some other non-local market? Why would you want to see that instead of something a little more relevant to you?

      Because often the switchover isn't handled well.

      If I'm watching NBC's suite of Thursday night shows from 8pm to 11pm, and my tuner is set to the Seattle NBC Station (KING-TV) then the cable company toggles from GLOBAL TV to CTV to CITY and then back to CTV, as those different stations have rights to broadcast the various programs in Canada. As a result, the beginning or ends of the shows are sometimes clipped off, as "A Supersized My Name is Earl" runs to 8:35 or whatever.

      It was particularly annoying with the post-superbowl office episode, where the two feeds were about 4 minutes apart and the cable co. kept toggling back and forth between the two.

      You also occasionally get 'technical difficulties' with one broadcast, but I can't toggle over to the other broadcast because, surprise, surprise, it's been overwritten with the one with 'technical difficulties.'

      It's even worse with syndicated shows - If a Canadian channel and an American channel are both showing a Simpsons rerun at 7pm, the US feed is overwritten with the Canadian one, ever if they're both showing different episodes!

      Stupid Canada nanny-state.

    32. Re:Across the country? by Curtman · · Score: 1

      Stupid Canada nanny-state.

      I would blame whoever is doing the switching over there. I'm in Winnipeg and I've never seen the problems you are talking about. I wish they could take the U.S. commercials out of the programs which aren't being done now. I find commercials for personal injury lawyers depressing. And block the news broadcast too while we're out it, that's frightening.

  13. most are the elderly many alone and without family by circletimessquare · · Score: 0

    and television is pretty much their only outlet

    now they are cut off from the world, and utterly devoid of understanding why television went away or how to get their television back

    yes, they have been broadcasting infomercials about the transition for months. but you are talking about people set in their ways, with brittle minds, who wouldn't even conceive of the infomercials as having to do with them

    of course the transition should happen, and you can't avoid people getting lost in the transition, but it's still sad

    a bunch of old people are utterly adrift from their daily routine today, and they have no clue why

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  14. Look at the bright side! by wfstanle · · Score: 1

    Although I was opposed to this delay let's look at what will occur as a result of PARTIAL digital conversion. Joe Sixpack has been oblivious to the conversion (even now). Partial conversion will mean that a few, but not all, of his favorite channels not be broadcasting in analog. He might now be convinced that it's time to do something. The downside it that he will probably complain to his Congress critters instead of getting a converter box. At least now he will be aware.

  15. so what? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can't be the only one who just bought a DLP projector, hooked it up to an old computer, and configured it to boot to Hulu.com. With a bluetooth mouse, that's video on demand and zero need to get over-the-air broadcasts.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:so what? by genner · · Score: 1

      I can't be the only one who just bought a DLP projector, hooked it up to an old computer, and configured it to boot to Hulu.com. With a bluetooth mouse, that's video on demand and zero need to get over-the-air broadcasts.

      Got you one better. I didn't want a computer sitting in my living room so I'm using a PS3 with a Playon Media Server running in another room.

    2. Re:so what? by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but you have to watch the commercials on Hulu. With a DVR, you can record OTA (or cable or satellite) and FF through the commercials. (You could record Hulu and then play it back later, but I suspect few bother. I have thought of doing it when I've missed an episode a few times.. I just ended up waiting until the episode was run again (cable shows that rerun often).)

    3. Re:so what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real confusion would likely be among people less technically inclined than yourself. Think of the people who call you for mundane help with XP, then think of people even less technically adept. Those are the people who are going to have no idea what happened. The 80 year old widow who lives next door with 12 cats has no idea why her TV broke.

      I know most people probably don't give much of a damn about those people, but they exist and (in my opinion) deserve a little more than some random commercials that they don't understand and a sudden loss of television (even moreso when you remember these people are usually on *very* fixed incomes and can't afford a converter box even with those lame coupons that don't even cover the cost).

      I'm posting AC cause I have mod points I don't want to lose.

      Not trying to knock your setup either ;)

    4. Re:so what? by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Funny

      I can't be the only one who just bought a DLP projector, hooked it up to an old computer, and configured it to boot to Hulu.com.

      Considering that when I point my netboot parameters to hulu.com, I dont get any kind of operating system upload and cant find anything that will boot hulu.com... I tried for hours. there is no BOOTP or TFTP servers running at any of the addresses owned by hulu.com.

      Yes, you are in fact the only one who has.

      You have created an IT miracle and need to be on the face of time magazine by making your computer do the impossible, and boot a website.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:so what? by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>by making your computer do the impossible, and boot a website.

      He didn't say he booted hulu.com. He said he booted TO hulu.com, meaning he wrote a script that automatically opens a browser window and loads http://www.hulu.com./

      Duh.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  16. I agree. by Samschnooks · · Score: 1

    I'm in a spot were I'm at least 20 miles from any TV broadcast so nothing really comes in well - lots of the blocking, no sound and many times the "no signal" floating box. Oh, my microwave disrupts the TV signal.

    1. Re:I agree. by SBacks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm in a spot were I'm at least 20 miles from any TV broadcast so nothing really comes in well - lots of the blocking, no sound and many times the "no signal" floating box. Oh, my microwave disrupts the TV signal.

      20 miles and you don't get a signal? You either have no concept of distance or you don't actually have an antenna.

    2. Re:I agree. by mattack2 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You stations may not be broadcasting full power yet. I believe they can go full power after today, or possibly that was delayed with the (optional) analog shutoff delay too.
      (I think they may also change frequencies, but that's all automagically handled by the tuner.)

    3. Re:I agree. by Samschnooks · · Score: 2, Informative
      Indoor rabbit ears and UHF doesn't propagate as well as the longer wave lengths.

      Just as well.There isn't much good on TV these days anyway. Even the PBS stuff is getting kind of shitty - they take an hour to show and explain things that can be done in 10 minutes. Also, some of the nature shows are so depressing: shows loss of habitat, people in Third World countries who believe that Tiger Penis soup will give them a hard-on (when it's their cigarette smoking causing their impotence), catching and slicing off shark fins and throwing the poor things back in the water, poisoning reefs to catch stuff for Western reef aquariums, etc... all stuff that I can't do a damn thing about.

    4. Re:I agree. by coaxial · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Indoor rabbit ears and UHF doesn't propagate as well as the longer wave lengths.

      I grew up with rabbit ears. I used rabbit exclusively for over 20 years. It's quite a bit more than 20 miles. The biggest factor is strength of the transmitter. You don't know what you're talking about.

      There isn't much good on TV these days anyway. Even the PBS stuff is getting kind of shitty - they take an hour to show and explain things that can be done in 10 minutes. Also, some of the nature shows are so depressing:

      Waaa! Waaa! Mommy, learning about how the world actually works makes me feel sad. Make it all go away so I can live in ignorant bliss, and then complain when people point out that the real world much more messy than my Ayn Rand books would have me believe.

    5. Re:I agree. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hai retard, i listened to ya bitching about poor people interfering with you TV signal.. may I help you slavering them all so they can tramspurt yow TV waves to yar hause?!

    6. Re:I agree. by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      I hate to reply to myself, but of course I meant "Your stations..."

      But the major thing I meant to correct is that you will need to _rescan_ channels after the analog stations go off and/or the stations go full power. The "automagically" part is that the number to you will not change, AFAIK.

    7. Re:I agree. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am 25 miles LOS and the tv in my car is now useless. I can drive through Center City Philadelphia and show "NO SIGNAL" on every OTA channel. If I'm parked in my home town and I don't get any channels at all, I can open the rear doors or park next to an 18 wheeler to focus the signals on my antenna in order to get a station or two to come in.

      Sometimes, when sitting at a red light, I might get a digital "smear" on the screen and if I pull up a few inches, I can get a signal strong enough to watch for a few seconds. The worst is when the converter box decides to change to a different channel or sub-channel on its own. I may put on 10-1 during the evening news, and as I pull up to another red light, the freaking Winter Olympics are on AGAIN on 10-3 (Hey Universal Sports, HIRE A PROGRAMMING DIRECTOR!)

      Analog reception was FAR BETTER, bar none. DTV sucks a lot of ass.

    8. Re:I agree. by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      ALL of my channels are 30+ miles away... you're doing it wrong.

      I'd check the tuner. Many, many tuners made before the converter boxes are quite poor.. even on expensive HDTVs. Anything made before 2008 is suspect, and even YMMV on the new converter boxes.

    9. Re:I agree. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Most DTV stations are already at their final allocation and at full power.

      By the way "full power digital" is only one-third that of analog.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    10. Re:I agree. by slimjim8094 · · Score: 1

      Nope; by this story, about a third of the stations are at their final allocation.

      That's why channel reception is different for DTV than it is for analog. After the switch, it should be identical.

      For example, PBS (channel 13) in my area is digital-broadcasting on 61, which comes in like shit. They'll be moving back to 13.

      You can have analog and digital on the same physical frequency.

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
  17. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

    Perhaps they can improve their lives by learning to meditate as they stare at the snow on the screen.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
  18. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by LoadWB · · Score: 1

    Six years to prepare, advertisements all over TV; if these old codgers are too "set in their ways," then I suppose a rude awakening is in order.

    Of course, there is always the old Victrola (you know, the old Talking Machine,) or RCA set which could still bring hours of enjoyment.

    I do agree, however, that it is sad that there are some out there who are disparate from reality and do not have anyone to take care of them. They will get lost in the TV transition, but the world will not end.

  19. You think you've got it bad â¦. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Think five months for the transition is causing confusion? Try five years: the UK is in the process of doing exactly that. It started in 2007 and will not finish until 2012. In addition another, incompatible, type of digital TV will start to be rolled out from next year at the same time.

    1. Re:You think you've got it bad â¦. by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah. Thing is, the Americans have basically gone straight from their original analogue colour system to a digital one that can support HD. Many boxes can receive these HD signals and output them as an analogue-compatible standard-def, so no-one's being forced to upgrade when they don't want to, but there's no need for a separate SD system either.

      Whereas in the UK we've had DVB-T (digital terrestrial, "Freeview") in use for around a decade- originally as part of the "ITV Digital" subscription service that went bust and was reused by the government. But it- or at any rate all the existing hardware- doesn't support HD.

      And so the PITA is that just as we're *eventually* starting the forced switchover to an SD-only digital system, we're already having to consider another system for the HD transmissions which are inevitably the way of the future. Complete with new hardware.

      (Incidentally, what I'd like to know is whether it was always intended from its late-90s beginning that ITV Digital's standard-def digital transmissions would be the UK's digital "standard". Or whether this was only decided upon when they went bankrupt (circa 2002) and the government formed Freeview? If the former, the lack of foresight is almost forgivable; if the latter, less so.)

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    2. Re:You think you've got it bad â¦. by Teun · · Score: 1

      Sure but at least you guys in the UK all have your own CCTV.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    3. Re:You think you've got it bad â¦. by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      DVB-T was defined as the european standard years ago... it means any digital box sold in any country in the EU will work in another country - great for manufacturers as it means they can produce one box for an entire continent of 300 million instead of an island of 60 million. You could argue it was done too early, but it does make the hardware extremely cheap to produce.

      DVB-T2 which will be used for HD is backwardly compatible in that a T2 box will pick up T signals (but not the other way around of course). Any HD channels which launch will be in a new HD mux (it has been proposed to use some of the downtime overnight for things like BBC HD but I don't think they're going ahead with that). The majority of channels will remain SD for the forseeable future.

      DVB just doesn't have the space for lots of HD... you've got a maximum of 6 muxes when switchoff is complete - possibly 7 in some areas - and HD can get 3/4 channels per mux vs. 12-16 for SD. There won't be *any* broadcast HD outsite satellite/cable until then, so that's 2012 at the earliest.

    4. Re:You think you've got it bad â¦. by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Think five months for the transition is causing confusion? Try five years: the UK is in the process of doing exactly that. It started in 2007 and will not finish until 2012. In addition another, incompatible, type of digital TV will start to be rolled out from next year at the same time.

      The dates have been clear from the start though. I've known London's analogue TV signals will be turned off in 2012 for several years.

      Plus, people actually watch broadcast TV here, whereas most people in the US use cable.

  20. Once Again... by acrobg · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you do not get your broadcasts over the air (ie you use cable, satellite, U-verse, Verizon, etc.), you are unaffected, period. If you have a television that has a decimal point or a hyphen on your remote in the numbers area (on the remote that came with the TV), you are fine. In this case, you may need to start entering stations in other ways, such as 11.1 as opposed to 11. The ONLY time you need to get a converter box is if you have an analog-only tuner in your television, as most 4:3 tube televisions have, AND you receive your television via antenna.

    1. Re:Once Again... by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Gee . . . thanks. I know that even here technical skill does vary, but I really don't think anyone here in the Slashdot crowd were actually wondering whether or not they needed a converter.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  21. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by Mr+Z · · Score: 1

    If only there were some way to, you know, advertise the change in advance? Perhaps some sort of announcement to the public would serve the purpose? A form of public service announcement?

    Wait, what are all these commercials with a TV in the middle of a swimming pool all about?

  22. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by rmadmin · · Score: 1
  23. Amusing Ourselves to Death by Niris · · Score: 1

    This article just seems fitting for posting about this book I read for shits and giggles once. Also had a suggestion of taking a week off the computer, away from tv, no music, nothing electronic whatsoever (aside from the unavoidable, like work, but if you're into the idea you won't go looking at /. at work *evil*) Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman. Pretty interesting.

    1. Re:Amusing Ourselves to Death by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading a book has never given me the shits or giggles. As for taking a week off from using the computer/TV/Radio, the military has this rehab program.....

  24. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by MoonBuggy · · Score: 1

    Why didn't they just switch every channel to a screensaver type message explaining the basics of the switchover and giving a helpline number for more info?

    I'm sure 48 hours with that on every channel before they're turned off would've been relatively cheap and easy, and I don't think anyone could possibly have claimed not to have heard/understood then.

    (Maybe they did, I guess, but I don't get that impression from the coverage I've seen)

  25. Wait, let me get this straight.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I *wasn't* supposed to turn my TV into a fish tank today? Huh?

  26. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by Propaganda13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If people haven't heard what to do then they're not watching enough tv. They've had plenty of test blackouts scheduled with numbers to call if they are not receiving a digital signal.

    My 90 year old grandmother was ready 6 months ago. She watches the least amount of TV of anybody I know. I really don't think it's old people that aren't setup.

  27. well... by mastermemorex · · Score: 0

    It is a good time to stop watching TV to start new hobbies.

    1. Re:well... by Gizzmonic · · Score: 1

      Like...trolling Slashdot, for example?

      --
      (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  28. Name any intersection of politics and tech... by EWAdams · · Score: 1

    ... that WASN'T "botched politically."

    Politics are to technology as sugar in the gas tank is to a Lamborghini Countach. The tech might run for a little while, but not the way it's supposed to.

    --
    I piss off bigots.
    1. Re:Name any intersection of politics and tech... by coaxial · · Score: 1

      The DTV conversion. The spectrum giveaway worked perfectly.

  29. And so begins the war of the two kings by Sloppy · · Score: 5, Funny

    Confusion Reigns As Analog TV Begins Shutdown

    But also

    As TV stations across the country switch off their analog signals, uncertainty reigns.

    Confusion. Uncertainty. Who reigns, and who is merely the figurehead, its strings pulled by the other?

    Personally, I vote (yeah right, as though we get to vote on this) for Confusion to reign. It evokes images of people running around with their hands up in the air, yelling hysterically. A Reign of Uncertainly merely makes me think of people grimacing, with their eyes darting back and forth.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:And so begins the war of the two kings by unitron · · Score: 1

      Well, some of us are both confused and uncertain about who or what reigns.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    2. Re:And so begins the war of the two kings by ffflala · · Score: 1

      I was going to say that Uncertainty regins for sure, but you do have a point. Now I might change my mind.

      Or possibly not.

    3. Re:And so begins the war of the two kings by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Confusion. Uncertainty. Who reigns, and who is merely the figurehead, its strings pulled by the other?

      We're not quite sure.

  30. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by Paracelcus · · Score: 0, Troll

    EEEEEE, HEHEHEHE, I DooDoo'd in my dydee!

    Do I eat in my room? where's my violin? Lotta work isn't it? got a union?

    Can't see the TV, must be the Fu-Manchu! Cranked the Phone and the Keystone operator didn't come on the party line, I'll harness up the buckboard and drive into town and see what's wrong!

    --
    I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
  31. Botched politically is right by davidwr · · Score: 1

    When you do something like this, you do it so only a small number of end-users will be affected.

    With TV, this means if more than a few hundred thousand customers will have to buy a converter box or begin subscribing to pay TV, it's too many. If more than a few tens of thousands have to buy a high-gain antenna or switch to a pay service, that's too many.

    How it coulda/shoulda been done:
    *Require all devices with analog tuners to advertise "not digitally compatible" starting shortly after the rules were written.
    *Have a very long delay, probably 10+ years, before analog-only tuners and TVs are made and the analog spectrum is turned off. This puts the "planned" back in "planned obsolescence." Only allow exceptions for items which are not designed to last a long time. In the case of TV tuners, I can't think of any.
    *Provide for people who still have old equipment and cannot reasonably afford replacement equipment, provide a way to buy a device that gives them basic functionality without requiring a subscription service. Subsidize this out of funds paid for by industry.

    This phasein was entirely too short. You could still buy analog-only computer tuners as recently as a year or two ago and small televisions only a few years before that.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Botched politically is right by coaxial · · Score: 1

      Provide for people who still have old equipment and cannot reasonably afford replacement equipment, provide a way to buy a device that gives them basic functionality without requiring a subscription service. Subsidize this out of funds paid for by industry.

      Thus the $40 government coupon for a convertor box.

    2. Re:Botched politically is right by Shizawana · · Score: 1

      Most parts of Europe (including Sweden, where I reside) have already switched several years ago. The stories and theories were all over the papers for a week or so but all things considered the move was quick and painless and we all now benefit from higher quality picture and sound. Why do you over there have to make such a big fuzz about this?

  32. Even my mother is ready by mdrplg · · Score: 1

    My 89 year old mother, who won't even say the word computer, is ready for the switch. I know, I know, anecdotal, I'm sure there are maybe dozens of people who will go to turn on their TVs and not get a signal and wonder, "Hey, this is supposed to be Dancing with the Stars?!" Seriously. The only people I have had any experience with that are confused about the process are the government and the politicians. Does that surprise me? NO! If the hype is to be believed there should be well over 1 in 100 that are not ready. Are YOU not ready? Where are you? Maybe if the stupidest of people don't get a converter box then there will be better programming on the TV.

    --
    Today is an ephemeron, doomed to the crypt of yesterday.
    1. Re:Even my mother is ready by Quest4RelativeTruth · · Score: 1

      Getting a converter box has been on my to do list for a while, but the truth is I really don't care about TV. I have my favourite shows on DVD (which is cheaper than cable), and can't remember the last time I watched TV.

    2. Re:Even my mother is ready by lgw · · Score: 1

      Well, I "watch TV" via Netflix. Bit of a latency issue, but the picture is great and there's always something on.

      I actually got a converter box, since I was at Frys anyway and had a coupon, and that worked out well: digital OTA includes a weather channel. Not watching broadcast TV always left me underinformed when it came to weather forcasts. Now when I poer up or stop my DVD player, I see a 5-day forcast for a few seconds - much better. Easily worth the $20 I paid for the converter (asusming it lasts a few years).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:Even my mother is ready by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Despite most Slashdotters' assumptions, the elderly are not the segment most affected by this (according to a survey I read). They're no more unprepared than the general population. The least prepared tend to be among the poor and non-English speaking segments.

  33. Am I the only one... by YellowMatterCustard · · Score: 1

    who doesn't care about TV anymore? I don't even own one of the damn things; I watch DVDs on one of my computers (mostly old shows and movies). Anything else I look up online (Hulu, etc.) Way better to see a few 10-30 second ads than sit through the average, bothersome, unnecessarily long commercial breaks. Maybe I just figured out that there are better ways to spend time (as I post on Slashdot =P).

    --
    This is not hatred. This is retribution. This is not revenge. This is justice.
    1. Re:Am I the only one... by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1

      Yes, you're the only one. I'm going to contact the major media outlets because yours is a unique story that must be told.

      Sadly, since you don't care about TV, you'll never get to watch it.

    2. Re:Am I the only one... by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 1


      The number one reason why white people like not having a TV is so that they can tell you that they donâ(TM)t have a TV.

      --
      "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
    3. Re:Am I the only one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just white people? I assumed there were annoying pretentious twits among all races. I really hope you're right.

  34. And which of the citizens was consulted... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It's all very well moving into the brave new world of digital television but just how many citizens actually asked for it to happen? A small minority I suspect.

    The point is, the whole change over was driven by corporate greed. Technical changes drive transactions and each transaction is an opportunity to fleece the customer.

    The population would have been perfectly happy with the old technology if the new technology hadn't been foisted on them.

    1. Re:And which of the citizens was consulted... by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Well, I for one remember lots of people complaining on this august forum about how congress was dragging its feet on Digital TV conversion.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  35. I watched two of my local ones blink out by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...it was actually kind of entertaining. The station that stopped last night had some fun and went old-school. They announced the end of the broadcast day (for good), played the national anthem over patriotic images of the flag.

    After that, they put up the old Indian Head test pattern and audio tone for a couple of minutes. At the stroke of midnight, it cut to static. It was just like nightly sign-offs when I was a little kid, and it almost made me misty-eyed.

    The one that went out this afternoon showed a bunch of snippets from the past 50 years, then they showed a live coverage of one of their engineers out in the transmitter shack pushing the "OFF" button. The instant cut to static was good for a laugh.

    1. Re:I watched two of my local ones blink out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      After that, they put up the old Indian Head test pattern and audio tone for a couple of minutes. At the stroke of midnight, it cut to static.

      Everything OK at your place? Chairs not stacking themselves? Little girls not sliding across the kitchen? Kids not getting eaten by trees?

      My thoughts are with you.

    2. Re:I watched two of my local ones blink out by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      The instant cut to static was good for a laugh.

      Bearing in mind that most TVs built in the past 20 years (at least) suppress the sound and picture if no signal is received, did they display simulated static?

      Ah, I get nostalgic for that hissing static noise my parents' TV used to make when there were no transmissions. Oh, no... hang on, I don't- it was bloody horrible :)

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    3. Re:I watched two of my local ones blink out by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      Hahaha, all of this is so awesome. :)

      <3

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    4. Re:I watched two of my local ones blink out by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Actually I'd put that more like TV's built in the last 8-10 years (a few higher end units were doing so earlier, but it certainly wasn't ubiquitous). There are still plenty of old TV's lurking around that don't do that. The spare in my extra living room is a little 25" unit that's right at 14 years old and it certainly cuts to static.

      Of course out at "the shed" (basically an little private "club" type thing behind my brother's house where a lot of friends hang out - we drink, play cards, have a pool table, and have a MAME arcade box that I cobbled together :)) there is an OLD console TV that my parents used to own - it's over 30 years old. It still works. He ran an extra coax out of his house from the satellite receiver there and occasionally watch racing, boxing, or UFC fights on it out there.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    5. Re:I watched two of my local ones blink out by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1

      Bearing in mind that most TVs built in the past 20 years (at least) suppress the sound and picture if no signal is received, did they display simulated static?

      Oddly enough, even though the TV is only about 5 years old, it does show snow on the antenna input. It cuts the sound after a short burst of noise.

    6. Re:I watched two of my local ones blink out by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Informative

      >>>The station that stopped last night had some fun and went old-school.

      I too watched my stations switch-off their analog, but it was anticlimatic. PBS33 in Harrisburg simply turned-off their transmitter during the mid-morning. FOX45 in Baltimore blanked-out for half a minute, and then started playing a 5-minute loop explaining how to buy and hookup a DTV box. CW15 in York displayed a 30-second card that said, "We will now be ending our analog broadcast and transitioning to full digital." I'm hoping the June 12 switchoff will be more dramatic.

      >>>It was just like nightly sign-offs when I was a little kid, and it almost made me misty-eyed.

      Yeah stations rarely turnoff anymore. Now they sell half-hour blocks of commercials to pay the bills. There are still some smaller markets like Binghamton New York where the stations turn-off between 2 and 6am. It felt odd to have no television in the middle of the night.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    7. Re:I watched two of my local ones blink out by ShaunC · · Score: 1

      I too watched my stations switch-off their analog, but it was anticlimatic.

      Well then, they should have signed-off with the weather team showing doppler ra

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    8. Re:I watched two of my local ones blink out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After that, they put up the old Indian Head test pattern and audio tone for a couple of minutes.

      In the San Francisco Bay Area, I think I saw the Indian head recently. There's also one UHF station that plays bars and tone for quite a while after its signoff. Good old thousand cycle tone -- not hertz.

  36. Oh the humanity! by molotovjester · · Score: 1

    Oh the humanity! And everyone is screaming! Their friend (the TV) is out! I might have to talk to people! Honest! My TV's just sitting there! What to do?!

  37. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So no only do you want me to "think of the childern" but now I have to "think of the elderly" too?

    Where is Darwin when you need him?

  38. RTFA??? by highfidelitychris · · Score: 1

    The article states 641 stations are shutting off, but the summary incorrectly states 691. That it doesn't say is if I should get my pitchfork and torch out.

  39. Tomorrow's news: Beer is gone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "No TV and no beer make Homer, something something."

    1. Re:Tomorrow's news: Beer is gone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crazy?

  40. tv?? by Mneten · · Score: 1

    people still watch TV?? i used to have a TV. it had a pick axe through the screen.

  41. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by FingerSoup · · Score: 1

    Lets face it - the ads were not compelling enough. Stations should have broadcast an analog feed and a digital feed. A Half-screen ticker on the analog feed stating "To get rid of this message, Pick up a digital converter, Switch to cable/Sattelite, or switch to our digital feed on Channel XX.X. Tune to channel 2 for more information." over top of people's programs (not during commercials) would have been the only suitable option. An FCC produced channel on channel 2 should have been broadcast in ALL locations explaining the whole process of switching to Digital, and been on a continual loop. 10 minutes explaining who needs the upgrade, when the change occurs, and what TV's are affected. 10 minutes for generic hookup instructions, and 10 minutes on how and why this change was occurring. Every half hour the cycle would repeat.

    The nice thing is, with a simultaneous Analog and digital feed, and with cable operators already converting the digital signal to Analog cable, they wouldn't get the interruption message. if you target people with the message, and REALLY interfere with their viewing 6 months before the change, most people will switch to avoid being annoyed.

    sure you might piss a lot of people off, and yes you incur a huge cost in broadcasting the education information, as well as saturate the airwaves with duplicate feeds... But at least people would be forced to get educated. Some people I'm sure, don't know there's a switchover happening or what it required to keep watching TV, or aren't sure it applies to them.

  42. Bender said it best by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Informative
    "Have You Ever Tried Simply Turning off the TV, Sitting down with Your Children, and Hitting Them?"

    Me thinks we will either have either a surge in domestic violence rates or a surge in birth rates as a result of this switchover. When you think about, TV is probably the most effective birth control device known to man... all the countries with high per-capita television ownership also have low birth rates.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Bender said it best by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 3, Informative

      ``TV is probably the most effective birth control device known to man... all the countries with high per-capita television ownership also have low birth rates.''

      Yeah. And piracy is the most effective way to combat global warming.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    2. Re:Bender said it best by the_other_chewey · · Score: 1

      ...all the countries with high per-capita television ownership also have low birth rates.

      Yes, and the shrinking of stork populations has even accelerated this alarming decline.

    3. Re:Bender said it best by wesley96 · · Score: 1

      When you think about, TV is probably the most effective birth control device known to man... all the countries with high per-capita television ownership also have low birth rates.

      Maybe. Going by that reasoning, internet may be even more potent birth control device. Korea has one of the lowest birth rates and the internet penetration rate is one of the highest.

      --
      Serving time in Aristotelean prison for violating laws of physics
    4. Re:Bender said it best by clifffton · · Score: 0

      From Sheilus to the reefs of Kizmar From Stargate and the Outer Worlds They're speeding towards our sun They're on a party run Here come Tomorrow's Girls

    5. Re:Bender said it best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have this rock here that prevents tiger attacks.
      See... I'm holding it. And you don't see any tigers, do you?
      Hence, the rock is working! Logic!

    6. Re:Bender said it best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow, causation is not correlation

    7. Re:Bender said it best by evilviper · · Score: 1

      When you think about, TV is probably the most effective birth control device known to man...

      It's been shown to be a complete myth that the birth rate goes up after an extended power outage.

      all the countries with high per-capita television ownership also have low birth rates.

      Would you like to buy my Tiger-rock? 20 years with it by my side, still not one tiger.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    8. Re:Bender said it best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not a bear in sight, the bear patrol must be working like a charm!

    9. Re:Bender said it best by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Brownie points to you for recognizing the sig is a quote from Kamakiriad -- which is decent background music to work by.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  43. Botched? by DannyO152 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who with any perceptive acuity and fundamental understanding of economics thought that everyone would pay more to continue to see free television? Especially when the recession train was in sight?

    The Congress and FCC? Well, there you go.

  44. Confusion my ass by Guysmiley777 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Screw any idiots who don't have cable or satellite and haven't gotten off their lazy asses to get a digital receiver. If it was SUCH an important thing to them they would have done something about it already.

    We could wait another 20 years and there would still be morons crying about it. Yank the band-aid off fast and be done with it.

    --
    Coding with assembly is like playing with Legos. Coding an application in assembly is like building a car with Legos.
  45. The scrolling text on my screen will be over soon by theurge14 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Over 12 months of wall-to-wall "PLEASE UPGRADE YOUR TELEVISION BY FEBRUARY 17, 2009!" covering the entire bottom of my screen.

    If you haven't seen that by now and made plans you deserve to have your TV dropped on your head.

  46. Wish I were living in Fargo, ND in February by smchris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    According to the spreadsheet that was compiled it looks like most or all their stations said "screw it" and converted en masse. Where I am, only a couple rerun stations went for it.

    1. Re:Wish I were living in Fargo, ND in February by dirkdidit · · Score: 1

      Hey - I live in Fargo, damn it! It might be colder than I care to acknowledge, but our TV is in digital and our beer is nicely chilled. We're living the good life....

    2. Re:Wish I were living in Fargo, ND in February by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Nicely chilled? No shit! We had some 30 degree weather for a week, but now it's back down to around zero again.

  47. Oh yeah... It is time for action by Shivetya · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After this wonder demonstration of government incompetence I say let us let them manage our Health Care and Health Care records!

    At least we know they are demonstrably bad at most of what they do, so we won't have higher than normal expectations.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
  48. oblig by DigitalCrackPipe · · Score: 1

    the disruption of TV
    A communications disruption can mean only one thing - invasion.

  49. Got a great example of this. by Shivetya · · Score: 1

    My Allegro (35QBA FWIW) motor home has both Satellite and HDTVs with OTA ability.

    I get better reception with satellite in the rain than I do with HD over the air. Even tuning it in doesn't solve it. I get stutter/frame freezes about every ten to fifteen minutes. Its enough to ruin some shows, you just know its got to happen during the "gotcha" moments. Now not all stations are equal but for the most part the quality isn't there. Perhaps they aren't at full strength or perhaps tuners just aren't up to measure, for built ins. I haven't tried an external tuner yet.

    Now all is not bad with HD OTA. I can get reception in some places that analog just doesn't come in. However satellite stomps it at all times. Even in some nicely wooded campgrounds I can find a satellite signal. Tuning satellite is as easy as looking up my initial setting based on my zip code of where I am and tuning it once.

    I haven't tried it while underway, I guess I need to test which works while moving : YES WHILE I AM NOT DRIVING.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:Got a great example of this. by maitai · · Score: 1

      I run my cable over a sony location free just fine over my blackberry to my laptop... try that. :P

  50. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

    Tons of places did plenty of tests. Every one of my local stations did a thing where they said planinly: "We're about to shut off the analog signal for 30 seconds as a test. Ok, if you can still hear me, you're fine. OK, if your TV just stopped working for 30 seconds then you need a converter box if you want to continue to receive television past February 17th.".

    They also all ran TONS of ads. The local PBS station in the last few weeks ran one between every show. At this point any idiot who couldn't tell that they're going to lose signal should just be shipped to a retirement home and spoon fed for their few remaining days, as they're obviously not competent enough to live unassisted. I'm sure the nurses there will get their TV working fine.

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  51. Duh... by Groggnrath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here's a thought, when you make a plan...stick to it.

    The few people who aren't ready for the digital conversion now will likely fail to be ready by June.

  52. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by Dynedain · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I agree... I'm so tired of the "old people don't know what's going on...." canard. My grandmother has asked me about it and knew it was coming, and she doesn't even OWN a TV.

    --
    I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
  53. Re:Oh yeah... It is time for action by PunditGuy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    OMG incompetent guvmunt can't do nuthin right, right?

    I'm so sick of this argument, especially as it relates to health care. We pay more and get less in return than the citizens in dozens of other countries. The difference? People in other countries ceded some and varying levels of control of health care -- a basic human necessity -- to an entity without a profit motive.

    No amount of anecdotal "waiting lists" or complaints about phantom lawsuits driving up costs can change the objective fact, which is that we're being ripped off by the existing private system. It has failed to expand the reach of care, to control costs or to improve the health of the nation. Yet we continue to fall for idiotic "government can't do anything right" arguments despite all the real-world examples of governments that are succeeding in keeping their populations healthy while spending less per capita.

  54. Q: What's better than a Flag Day? by mkcmkc · · Score: 1

    A: Several confusing postponements, followed by a Flag Day that's actually smeared over several days, followed by several months of "Hey, whenever, dude...".

    --
    "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
  55. Last one to leave-- turn out the lights... by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Finance has crashed, housing has crashed, oil is crashing, retail is crashing, now here begins the media. Maybe now I can get some peace and quiet.

  56. lolz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lolz

  57. the charge of the internets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the internets will take over now that you see the mass media conforming to this mass media signal purification to control the minds of the public. you will not stop the militant pirate tv nerds from taking over the signal and airing max headroom spoofs on top of this thing. there is not a way to run and there is not a way to hide from this form. what have you found in this form? nothing, that is that the slashdot mechanisms of relating the internets have not allowed the mind to function! never again we say as you have all been doomed into this digital life of 1's and 0's as we would tell Marty! Don't you see that this is all an illusion you fools! Fools of illusion! If this message didn't take 12 beers and a pack of cigarettes to get through it might have come from another dimension. The dimension in which I type you lamers! Wake up and see! Wake up and see, we say to you television viewers to never turn on the television again. Do it for your mind, turn off your television now we say! Do it for us, do it for you.

  58. $40 didn't deliver basic function by davidwr · · Score: 1

    There were severe limitations on the $40 coupon. A relative's analog VCR will soon be useless for time-shifting recording of more than one channel at a time, which is one of the "basic functions" of a VCR.

    I didn't see a box that had a VCR-compatible "save your favorite shows and the box will send them out the analog outputs at the times you want" box for $40 or less.

    The $40 coupon had another side-effect: It set an artificial floor on prices, meaning anything but the most basic unit cost more than $40.

    A better way to go would've been a voucher that was only available to people who were either already on public assistance, in school, on unemployment, or people whose previous-year tax return showed an income below some threshold. Sure, this would've stuck it to the middle class who would've had to pay the full cost, but if there had been a 10-year phase in relatively few middle-class people would've been affected.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  59. Rights by Sum0 · · Score: 1

    I missed the part in the Constitution about being entitled to analog TV...

  60. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by tompaulco · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'm missing something. If the purpose of Digital TV was to free up UHF frequencies, then shouldn't it be possible for the stations to continue broadcasting on the UHF frequency for a couple of months? Of course, not actual programming, but some message like "I told you so" only maybe more helpful? They obviously have been broadcasting both digital and analog for awhile now (at least in my area), so they have both transmitters.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  61. Some can't wait any longer by tcgroat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Colorado PBS affiliate KBDI can't delay. Their analog transmitting antenna was badly damaged, and it's not worth the cost to fix it for a few more months' service even if they had the money (and like most PBS stations, they don't have much to spend). Besides that, repairs on that mountain really should wait until the weather improves--which isn't likely until May. Such is life when the antenna is at 11,500 feet!

    1. Re:Some can't wait any longer by VanessaE · · Score: 1

      The same holds true for our local ABC affiliate. Their analog transmitter suffered a partial failure very recently, cutting their effective power roughly in half, according to a tech I talked to. Since digital is already running and they're shutting analog off in a month, they've chosen to just leave it in its broken state.

  62. Re:The scrolling text on my screen will be over so by arb+phd+slp · · Score: 1

    I am so glad I don't have to see those warnings anymore. I don't know how anyone could possibly not know about it.

    The channels here are switching off analog on the original timetable from before the extension. And I have cable anyway so I didn't even need to do anything (except call my parents to make sure they were ready).

    --
    There's a perfect xkcd for my sig but I'm too lazy to look it up. sudo someone go find it.
  63. Heh, reminds of a Simpsons episode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What was that episode where there was no TV or something and suddenly all the kids go outside and start playing? This article made me think of that.

  64. Government Nonsense by FyberOptic · · Score: 1

    This whole thing is a complete mess. What's the point in delaying the mandatory switchover when all the companies who would have already ugpraded their equipment by now can go ahead and switch anyway? It's just costing them money to run the old stuff, so why would they care if a few people out there never got boxes to keep watching? The majority of their viewers aren't using the broadcast version anyway.

    Of course, you could argue that there's no excuse for anyone to not be ready for this switch by now considering how long the country has prepared for it. And in my opinion that's true too. But the fact remains that making this switch optional for the next few months was just nonsensical. It should have been all or nothing.

  65. What's this all about? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm confused...

  66. I'm just glad to see by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

    That recycling initiatives are being rolled out at a more significant pace. I know some of the electronics retailers are doing more to accept used TVs and such things for recycling.

    Sure, we know that you can watch digital TV on your old analog set from 1982. But do you really want to have to get up to change the volume? And while most people know that you don't have to go HDTV for digital, I doubt many retailers are losing much sleep over customers buying new sets because they don't know any better.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:I'm just glad to see by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2, Funny

      And while most people know that you don't have to go HDTV for digital, I doubt many retailers are losing much sleep over customers buying new sets because they don't know any better.

      I don't think there's anyone who believes you need HDTV for digital.

      I do think there are a fair number of guys who've told their wives this, to justify the HDTV that they'll be watching the NFL, NBA, MLB on in the coming years.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  67. Pot calling kettle black.. by persicom · · Score: 1

    If I were in anyway related to the financial industry, I wouldn't exactly be calling out anyone else for "botching" anything at this time...

  68. DTV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And who NEEDS to watch television? NOBODY!! So why is this even an issue?

  69. the near-sighted geek by westlake · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Seriously, we've got more important things to worry about in this country that weather people can watch their soaps on channel 4. Why are we wasting money on this.

    Because it affects our most isolated and vulnerable populations. the elderly, the poor, and the disabled.

    Look around you.

    Find out where these people live.

    How these people live.

    Four hours spent on a rural bus run can be very educational.

    The third-rate nursing homes.

    The group homes and apartments built on barren agricultural lots five miles from the nearest traffic light.

    The tenant houses and run-down trailer parks you never gave a thought to.

    $90 a month as a personal allowance.

    Out of which will come your co-pays for therapy and drugs and blood work.

    Capped at perhaps $300/yr.

    Life-Line phone service at 10 cents a minute.

    1. Re:the near-sighted geek by troll8901 · · Score: 2, Funny

      $90 a month as a personal allowance.
      Out of which will come your co-pays for therapy and drugs and blood work.

      That's depressing.

      Oh well, back to my TV. I've only watched 3 hours out of my daily 8 hours scheduled. Let's see what's on...

    2. Re:the near-sighted geek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Providing TV to these people is not a national concern. TV is entertainment. Even the so-called news is primarily entertainment. There is no 11th amendment about the right to watch TV.

    3. Re:the near-sighted geek by Chabo · · Score: 1

      There is no 11th amendment about the right to watch TV.

      ...he says, as if there was no such thing as the Eleventh Amendment

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    4. Re:the near-sighted geek by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just dial 10-10-31 !

  70. Uh.. by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 1

    Not for nothing, but this cutover has been in the works for ten fuckin' years. I first read about it when I was in college. People who are scrambling now kind of deserve what they get. Go read a book or something if you can't watch Idol.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
    1. Re:Uh.. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      over 20 years, actually. The original goal was to plan the cut over after 85% of household were digital. This allowed for the market to influence the decision. too bad the market was moving as fast as the industry wanted so now we have the hodge podge of crap with no good planning.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  71. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by man_ls · · Score: 1

    Possible, yes. But incredibly costly. From what I understand, the electric bill for each transmitter and amplifier can be over $10,000 per month.

  72. OMG! OMG! OMG! by dogganos · · Score: 1

    Poor people have been left without television broadcast reception! Fears are spreading that without their daily dosis, they may turn into real walking humans with thinking abilities! SPOOKY!

  73. Delay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read or heard somewhere that a big part of the reason for the delay was because of concern for folks in remote yet high alert areas, like the hill-folk in the Ozarks of Oklahoma, for instance. If their TV's go dark they won't see the Tornado warnings and other Emergency broadcasts.
    Seeing as how our Government has spent sizable sums of money on the Emergency Broadcast system, some Congress people weren't happy about the system going dark where it is needed the most.
    I reckon there may be a good size portion of those hill folks who weren't ready for the switch. And maybe some of the poor broadcast stations in that area weren't ready either.

  74. Re:The scrolling text on my screen will be over so by ukemike · · Score: 1

    That's funny I haven't seen a warning like that even once. I already switched over to digital. It's called hulu.com.

    --
    -- QED
  75. Freakonomics! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You just reminded me of a story in "Freakonomics" where the authors traced back the decline in youth / gang crimes to a Supreme Court ruling a generation before - which allowed women on welfare to have their abortion paid for by Medicare or welfare (I don't remember, and I'm not american, so please excuse me there).

  76. Advertisers are demanding this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't want to have customers out there that they can't turn into consumers by advertising.

    And, a bit like the Simpsons Episode Marge vs Itchy and Scratchy, these couch potatoes may find that they don't really NEED the goggle box and do something else if the TV stops working.

    And then EVERYTHING breaks down.

    That's why it is getting pushed back.

    Advertising.

  77. Re:Oh yeah... It is time for action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OMG incompetent guvmunt can't do nuthin right, right?

    I'm so sick of this argument, especially as it relates to health care. We pay more and get less in return than the citizens in dozens of other countries. The difference? People in other countries ceded some and varying levels of control of health care -- a basic human necessity -- to an entity without a profit motive.

    No amount of anecdotal "waiting lists" or complaints about phantom lawsuits driving up costs can change the objective fact, which is that we're being ripped off by the existing private system. It has failed to expand the reach of care, to control costs or to improve the health of the nation. Yet we continue to fall for idiotic "government can't do anything right" arguments despite all the real-world examples of governments that are succeeding in keeping their populations healthy while spending less per capita.

    Govt. an entity without profit motive. The same entity that take 40% of GDP. Where members of both parties have gone to jail for corruption.

    At least with the private sector I still have choices.

  78. Rescan Your TV or Converter Box by batteryman · · Score: 2, Informative

    Some stations have the option to go back to their old channel as a digital station. That means that these stations will be giving up their second channel that they have been using as their digital channel. Here in the Los Angeles area the following channels will go back to their original channel. 7, 9, 11, 13, 18, 28 & 34. The rest will remain on their second channel while their analog channel goes dark. I should call some of the stations like channel 5 to see if they will be changing their logo, since their second channel that they have been using is 31.

    Make sure that when the big transition day comes, that you perform a channel scan on your TV or converter box. That way you will be able to view the channels that have made the change.

    Channels assigned for Los Angeles:
    7, 9, 11, 13, *28, 31, 34, 36, *41, 42, 43

    Here are some documents to look at from the FCC.

    DTV Assignments
    http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-138A1.pdf

    DTV Assignments Appendix B
    http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-138A2.pdf

  79. Canada! by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    They don't start to transmit until 2011 you insensitive clod!

    http://www.chextv.com/aboutCHEX/faq.html#1.

    1. Re:Canada! by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 1

      Here in Vancouver I get 5 digital channels over the air: CBC, Global and CTV, plus KVOS (independent) and KBCB (home shopping - shudder!) from Bellingham, Washington. This is with a little antenna on top of my TV, plus a digital converter box I bought at Radio Shack in Portland last fall.

      KVOS and KBCB went 100% digital last night. Their former analogue channels are dead air this morning. KVOS had been running ads that said that while the deadline had been extended, they were going to pull the plug in February, as originally planned. They did.

      ...laura

  80. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

    Do I eat in my room? where's my violin? Lotta work isn't it? got a union?

    Can't see the TV, must be the Fu-Manchu! Cranked the Phone and the Keystone operator didn't come on the party line, I'll harness up the buckboard and drive into town and see what's wrong!

    See, the Bursar agrees.

  81. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

    Na ba la wa zu Enki da.

    --
    Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  82. Call it! by sckeener · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry, but there comes a time in poker, when you just have to get the pain of that hand over with....call it!

    Lets get the cards on the table and see what we have to fix.

    Enough of these maybe issues.

    Switch and see who is affected. Stagger the roll out so they can see problems coming, but lets get on with it!

    --
    "Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
    1. Re:Call it! by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, but this isn't poker.

      Perhaps anything more complex then poker is too much for your brain to understand?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  83. This Just In! by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    Not all Canadians live in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal!

    Seriously though, from what I have been told, those in major population centers (see Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal) will have had some already switch over to digital or will switch over to digital before the deadline. Some of these will also offer analog alternatives as well. However for the rest of Canada most will be switching on the deadline set by industry Canada and not before, which is in 2011, still 2 years away.

    So in other words if you were looking into buying anything ATSC and do not live in the Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal areas, don't bother.

  84. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by NiteShaed · · Score: 1

    Great, Mary Snowcrashed.....happy now?

    --
    Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
  85. Re:most are the elderly many alone and without fam by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

    but they ran the SAME ads on Analog and Digital.

    I agree with FingerSoup, that all analog channels should have had a red bar at the bottom with instructions, all the time... and the HD channels would not. A lot of people with Digital TVs still tuned to Analog channels if the TV wasn't set up correctly. For example my cable company would actually SWITCH to the analog feed (on the HD channel) to run the PSA about digital.

    The whole thing was totally botched to the general public.

  86. IT's biotched politically beacause by geekoid · · Score: 1

    the industry pressured the government to change before the original goal.
    For over 20 years this ahs been going on. The goal was when 85% of the consumers have digital capable in the home, then the switch would begin.

    But then the market wasn't going there quick enough, so the industry forced the issue.
    Well, when you change a plan towards the end point, confusion happens. When you don't have a good plan to switch to, it's even worse.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  87. Is anyone really worried about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let me propose a question...

    If a person actually can not figure out how to watch television after the switch is made, then should that person really be watching television in the first place? Perhaps if they are that far behind the rest of the public in intelligence, then they would benefit from more productive activities than television, eh?

    Why do people insist on catering to dumb people? I will never understand it..

  88. The only way Congress can F' this up more... by Overt+Coward · · Score: 1

    ... is if they now cancel the whole switch to digital TV altogether. Seriously, could they have screwed the pooch on this whole thing any worse if they actually tried to be this incompetent?

  89. It's even worse in the UK by dugeen · · Score: 1

    where there are no 'rebates' for converting to digital pay TV. If you want to continue watching television after the analogue switchoff, you have to pay for a converter and a subscription to 'Freeview' (and that's on top of $200 equiv a year for a TV licence). And when you've spent your money, you find that the channels are defaced with unremovable advertising logos and interrupted by red button messages. The BBC's promotional campaign for digital pay TV has been strangely quiet about these differences.