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Quebec ISP To Terminate Subscribers Over Copyright
An anonymous reader writes "Quebecor, which owns Quebec's biggest ISP, has thrown in with Hollywood
interests by arguing for the 'graduated response' approach that would kick off subscribers based on three allegations of infringement. The company told Canada's telecom regulator that net neutrality rules are not needed since content blocking has social benefits, including the potential for
a three-strikes-and-you're-out policy."
Videotron. Great network, good speeds, low caps, and terrible customer service.
Alternatives? Where. Show me. Explain to me.
There is NO alternatives in Quebec.
Show me the "competitve market" in Ontario. Please leave the Rogers/hBell wholesalers and resellers, and show me the competition.
Primus in select area's that is not on Bell equipment? MSNi in Windsor not on Bell equipment?
nexicom in petorborough not on Bell equipment?
This competition is in isolated communities that the masses have no access to. Now explain the competition in Quebec to me please. Where should Videotron users move to again?
Whith whom should they speak to with their wallet?
I will be very surprised if the french language media even picks up on this.
Quebec isn't even aware of the copyright fight that went on. A couple of obscure articles that came out a month AFTER the re-election.
Think they will know about this?
Quebec will push for its own CRTC saying its good for the people, have no coverage, and not tell the people stuff like this will happen. They have been pushing for their own CRTC for years now.
There is close to zero awareness of these things in Quebec french media and french population.
Will Quebecor put out a press release saying what it wants to do in their media? heh
speak with your wallet? Change telco? Let me know when you found an alternative...
Isn't this already common practice? I know my ISP (COX) warned me that 3 complaints would lead to account termination.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I use Videotron for my own internet access. I disagree with their reasoning on this though. What I am more interested in is exactly why they (or any other ISP) would take this position? The only real gain for an ISP would be the ability to kick bandwidth hogs, which is a win for them for obvious reasons.
But if they want to have that kind of power, then they would also make themselves at least somewhat liable for what their subscribers are doing over the internet. Do they really want to take on that liability to any degree? Or do they expect to be able to get the ability to throttle bandwidth while still not incurring any liability for user activities?
END COMMUNICATION
know somebody who you dont like at school or work that just happens to use this ISP? just complain three times to the ISP and "Bam!" no more internets...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
I wouldn't be suprised if part of this was pressure from quebecious sepratists who are upset french people are downloading movies in english instead of going and buy french dubbed dvd's.
Sniff the wire and get your hogging neighbors bounced. Or that grll with no taste.
"With great power comes great responsibility." With more regulation at their own discretion, maybe it doesn't seem like such a bad idea after all.
The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments. - Nietzche
who said they have to be false? allegations are unproven... Hmmm.... shall we make allegations against the higher ups at that ISP? Oh, let's really tweak with them and make allegations against Canada's Telecom Regulator. The only thing worse than getting screwed with, is getting tricked into screwing the guy you bosses you around....
Once again, there's a "disconnect" (har har) over what an internet connection means in 2009.
It's not cable TV. It's not your spa membership. This isn't 1997, where one's internet connection was a curiosity and a pastime; it's since assumed the role one's principal informational conduit with the outside world. You pay your bills with it, you file government documents and applications with it, you communicate with employers, employees, friends, and loved ones with it.
The burden of proof to take someone's internet access away, to force them to live in a non-connected world that no longer even exists, should be monumentally high. That it can be revoked simply on allegation of casual infringement on a copyright should be a lot more disturbing to people than it seems to be.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
I love how Quebec loves to ignore federal laws/policy then run off on a tangent and make their own.
I say don't drink and drive, you might spill your drink. Before you get behind the wheel just stop and think.
How about one strike and I am out. Accuse me once of infringement without due process and I will quit and get a different ISP. Simple.
Of course I don't live in Quebec so I am not sure what their ISP options are. However if it is like Ontario, there isn't much choice, but there is choice.
You mean we aren't?
Fuck...
From the article:
Translated, Quebecor argues in favour of certain instances of ISPs controlling content
Which is a continuing worldwide trend of companies and countries devolving from an open and worldwide Internet to a closed and insular Intranet. According to the pundits, if you aren't doing anything wrong then you should welcome suppression with open arms and arses. Of course the pundits are Trolls, but simple and weak arguments that are based on emotion and dishonesty usually win against logic and rationality. Nice ISP users finish last.
Québécor owns most of Québec music companies, most of the private TV networks and a lot of newspapers.
Back when the courts determined that file-sharing was legal and ISPs should not be compelled to ID copyright infringers, Vidéoétron was perfectly willing to turn subscribers IDs to record companies.
Right here. Despite having friends working at Videotron, I believe the Quebecor empire (more info in Fr) is a bad one as a whole (e.g. newspaper consolidation), not only the ISP part.
Animoog.org
have a terrible track record for justice. And in this case, I anticipate that it would have an even worse record... much worse.
Why?
Because many people will not take the trouble to dispute the first 2 notices, even if they are in error. Only when they get their third unjustified notice will they recoil in horror, realizing that their internet service has been cut off for stupid (and probably unjust) reasons.
We have all seen what happens when bogus takedown notices are sent. Innocent people suffer. And often it has been difficult to get the content restored even after they demonstrated that they had the right to display it.
The DMCA needs to go away. Taking down content without warning (and often on mere suspicion, without evidence) is not the way our laws were supposed to work.
Aside from the language laws (which is a divisive issue itself in Quebec), Quebec has always seemed to be fairly progressive when it comes to personal freedom. I doubt if the average Quebecois agrees with what one of its major corporations would want to do to its citizens. Quebec is far from being anything like the Bible Belt.
get a load of that. private interests are the decider of what's good for society now.
that's what happens when you allow unbridled capitalism. if there is an unorderly chaos, a lack of authority, more powerful groups fill the gap and establish their own hierarchy. NO different than post roman empire chaos in which roman government wasnt able to restore order. in that feudal lords arose, establishing a new order. it was only in 1400s that central kings were able to establish a valid rule for the land, with the help of cannons, beating feudal lords and freeing them from the whims of robber barons.
today is no different. we have a king in the form of governments, which WE, as people, control, we have 'private interests', which are trying to assert their own authority in various aspects of social life, hiding behind capitalism, competition and free market excuses.
the only way that you can have EQUAL, FAIR environment is to bash feudal lords through your central hammer at your disposal - your federal government.
do it, and you wont live in a virtual feudal domain in your locale under whatever big group controls aspects of life. - for any fool that may err in thinking that they dont : almost all of the services&products you use in your daily life belongs to various corporations which are the holdings of various big megaholdings themselves.
Read radical news here
Many of the things Quebec disagrees on work out really well. Lots of universities with low tuition, better leave for kids, $7/day day care (I was paying $55/day in Toronto), no fault insurance (way, way, cheaper, and the additional accidents are due to the badly designed highways and more aggressive drivers not to the cheaper insurance)...
Videotron is just making a case for having its cable monopoly broken up.
You got me into this! You were the ideologue! I'm only a poor assassin! - Twenty evocations, Bruce Sterling
Does anyone find it odd that an ISP would be looking to CUT its customer base?
If you ask me, it isn't about RIAA or MPIAA, the ISPs are greedy. Torrents are hard to shape and take bandwidth that they have to pay for. So, it is a way of booting "expensive" customers and trying to make it look like it is a positive thing.
Seriously, its just a way for them to increase their bottom line.
I agree, it's totally wrong. Not *all* Americans are like that.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Isn't that a little extreme? These people most likely have families to take care of!
Wait...what's that? Oooooh. They're just cutting off internet service.
Try here: image
We'd get intrusion emails from sysadmins, particulars, etc. We had a set of rule (sysadmins complaint had more weight than regular individuals, but we still took both into account).
If we received enough complaints (10 invidiual or 2 sysadmins iirc), you'd get a call from me or a colleague of mine, asking you to refrain. 2nd time would be a final warning, 3rd time was a complete disconnection of your Internet services.
We were getting complaints from RIAA back in the day, and would process those complaints with the same rule as sysadmins.
Agreed, back in the day, botnets and all were WAY less widespread than they are now, so I'd say that 75-80% of the time, it was the actual person who did the deed (guy's registered email adress is "leetdude at videotron dot ca" and the alias they caught him under on IRC was "leetdudeqc" for example), where nowaday, a lot of people do "bad deeds" unknowingly because their computer was zombified. But even then, after a single warning, you should get your shit together and get your computer fixed, cleaned, protected. A 30$ router and a 60$ AV/AS software works wonders (not PERFECT, but a lot better than an unpatched unprotected computer plugged in directly in the cablemodem).
I hereby accuse the entire Bloc Quebecois of copyright infringement.
Come on, guys. Two more accusations and we'll never hear from these clods again!
Am I the only one who heard Roxette to sing "I'm gonna get blitzed for some sex"?
I realy think Videotron is asking for trouble with this. Most of the people I know who got this kind of letters weren't big downloader but parent who got kids downloading stuff on Kazaa/Limewire. Believe me this wont cut piracy at all, simply scare little downloader who're using easy way of sharing files. Anybody who know how to download rightly will not get caught. It will simply kill the unsure P2P client for some new one which will make more difficult to trace peers. Anyway, people won't let this run for long. Either Videotron will back down or they'll end up in front of the court with a class action and trouble with the consumer protection office. As for choice of ISP in Quebec, we've got near nothing. It's either Bell or Videotron, both being more than crappy. Others are resellers. It's near impossible nowaday to start its own ISP without being a reseller of these two. It would require too much cash to get a fiber to a point and build an infrastructure for clients access. I'd realy like to set up a local WiMax ISP, but that would be a hell of a burden. It would require a lot of cash for equipment, the fiber line and I would have to take a using license from one of the WiMax frequency operator in my zone. Now, going normal WiFi by running fiber around the city and setuping antena is far from efficient and trouble-some. And would still require a license from the CRTC. We're far from the day someone could lease some lines, a pipe and setup it's server in is basement :(
And for Quebec hater all out there, I pretty much hate independantist as you do and I think the 101 law is stupid too. Just don't put everybody in the same basket. The problem in Quebec it's that most of time, stupid people get more light than they should.
Yeah, seriously. Figure out what worm/malware is the most prolific in Quebecor's customer base.
Have that program dl a simple client that hooks up to a P2P network and begins asking for Britney Spears albums nonstop. Then watch as Quebecor's customer base drops to zero.
Remember, it's three allegations of copyright infringement that gets you bumped off their network. Not three proven incidents.
Perhaps this would show them the error in their policy.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I had my Cox Communications internet connection disabled about 3 years ago because of this. When I called up and asked customer support about (It just seemed like it was down from my end) I was told that they had detected a specific torrent being shared from my network. They also informed me that if they caught this 3 times they would disable my service so I don't see anything new here.
I have also heard from several of my friends that also use Cox Communication that they have had similar experiences.
you're anonymous.
why ?
Read radical news here
Socialism? This looks more like corporatism to me. Try opening a dictionary for once.
You don't seem to be reading the news. The Pirate Bay hosts *no* content at all. They don't make anything available. All they do is supply pointers to people who claim to have something available. The whole process is called "peer-to-peer".
I can understand your problem and sympathize with you and all other artists and people who depend on selling their intellectual creations. But the fact is that the current business model for that is broken. We need a new way to let people earn a living from their creations. Misunderstanding the problem and trying to implement radical solutions will not help accomplish that end.
needs citation
I will pretty soon run out of neighbors with WEP'ed WiFi setups. Hows that WPA2 crackage coming along?
I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.
and
Uhh...you do realize that it was the government that created such laws as the DMCA, anti-piracy, and granted power to the RIAA and MPAA...right??!!
What your essentially asking is for is the government to fight itself. This is about as productive as a dog chasing its own tail. A complete fucking waste of time.
I have a better idea. How about we at *least* prevent the government from making stupid laws before we ask them to regulate an issue they just created. Naw, that would just make too much sense. Never mind...
Life is not for the lazy.
Uh, what's up with all those incredibly negative anti-Quebec comments?
The Quebec government/population hasn't a THING to do with that, Québécor is a privately owned company which does everything it wants by itself (and being rather large, they have sufficient pushing power to do it). Are you accusing the USA government for what the RIAA does?
Especially considering lots of Americans aren't even born in the USA.
I don't care why you're posting AC
You're absolutely right on with that comment. Quebec is quite a ways from where I live, but I find myself identifying with Quebecers on a lot of issues, and strangely alienated from a lot of other "left-coasters" who live in the more rural areas of my province.
I'm sure there is the same broad spectrum of people there as in other areas, but in general Quebec strikes me as quite progressive with regard to social issues, while still fiercely libertarian on a personal level.
I doubt this will go very far; Quebecers are not shy about telling someone to fuck off, in any language.
I don't care why you're posting AC
Do you think they live in a bubble of unbridled capitalism? There is plenty of regulation in the ISP "market". If you ask me, this is more the fault of the government, for their intense regulation of ISPs and letting one or two telcos completely own an area. Unbridled capitalism would mean customers could vote with their wallet and go somewhere else, but yet there are actual customers in here complaining that there are no other options!
Reviewing just the first hour of video games.
The problem is that even if we know how to scream, the monopolies still exist with us. Quebecor is the best example. They the most popular TV "news" channels and newspapers.
So yeah, we could scream as loud as we could, the message will not pass.
That being said, Quebecor has to respond to the CRTC, as every provider of Canada. And well, I never really know in favor of which side, the ISPs or the Canadians, the CRTC rules...
So in the worst case, in Quebec, we could have to chose between being throttled by Bell or "terminated" by Videotron.
"Unbridled capitalism" has absolutely nothing to do with what choices are available for the customer. It means that A.) corporations are completely unlimited on what they can do to grow their companies (if they can get rid of all competition, so much the better for them!), and B.) there are no restrictions on what the customer is allowed to buy. But also, since there is no regulation, there is also nothing to say that any particular corporation or industry has to make any particular thing available for sale to the customer. If it's not as financially beneficial as they would like, there's no reason to do it.
This is why we don't do unbridled capitalism. Ultimately, any given industry will result in a monopoly if left unchecked for a long enough period of time.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
That's interesting, because I've lived here all my life and what you're describing is a pretty small minority.
Have you considered that you might be an asshole magnet? Perhaps that's why you're posting anonymously?
http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf
The statute also establishes procedures for proper notification, and rules as to
its effect. (Section 512(c)(3)). Under the notice and takedown procedure, a copyright
owner submits a notification under penalty of perjury, including a list of specified
elements, to the service providerâ(TM)s designated agent.
Yeah, you might be wrong about this, at least in so far as the initial notice is concerned, it requires the statement as much as the counter-notice does.
Wow! I can't believe what I'm reading here! This is an article about an ISP... what the fuck is wrong with you people? You can't read the word "Quebec" in an article without vomiting on Quebecers? Are you that stupid?
http://www.vivahate.org/
Stay home, be bored. It's crap, I KNOW!
I'm from Quebec and I agree with you. We have minds of our own and we make ourselves heard. They shouldn't be pulling this crap on us.
how is babby formed?
Actually the government fighting it's self is called politics. It's at least as hard as keeping Windows stable, and is equally susceptible to stupid user syndrome. Sadly there is no easy solution to that problem like running Linux.
Quebec ISP To Terminate Subscribers Over Copyright
Man, I'd hate to have the name Sarah Connor and live in Quebec right now...
Your name is Cyberdyne IP!
TAKE THAT BITCH!!
TELL YOUR COUSIN I'LL BE BACK!!
War as we knew it was obsolete
Nothing could beat complete denial
- Emily Haines
Odd how such a small minority seems to be able to pass so many oppressive laws in its favour.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9402E5DA1538F937A25756C0A964948260
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/12/12/quesigns_021212.html
You'd think in a democracy a amall minority wouldn't be able to do that. So either Canada's system is seriously flawed, or you're a liar.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
That bigoted law allows bilingual signs, self-righteous dipshit.
You've never heard a Quebecer swear, have you? ;)
My mother is from Britanny, I know a bit of it and swears in it probably sound a bit weak to you too (I'd tend to agree). I live in Montreal and with my strong french/breton accent I tend to not have the same weight so I just avoid swearing in French, but the Quebecois have a plethora of swear words that are rather delivered in the same way as Spanish and Italian does.
They own one of the two halves of Quebec's duopoly (they're Comcast's half), are about the sole distributor for cable, happen to own the most listened to off-cable channel (for some shows and some days, admittedly), and a newspaper whose readership stats are considerably distorted because they somehow feel they're special enough to pretend that 10 times as many people read their shit as they sell.
They've done that sort of bullshit a lot to protect their IP, they've also crippled the music on the electronic downloads section of their brick-mortar front's web presence with DRM that doesn't work in anything but WMP9-10 and maybe with a prayer 11. Apparently it doesn't even play on a Zune and trying to take it off using wmp just broke the songs.
And they seem utterly unaware of people not using Windows, or IE for that matter, which is a whole lot of fun trying to work with their crap. Accessibility neither last I checked their ISP's corporate page, but that was a few years ago...
Thing is, nothing really is there to break up the damn provincial monopolies/cartels unless the government does, and the government doing gets people screaming "SOCIALISM" - which has a hint of truth I guess since the last cartel they broke apart was almost entirely nationalised. And while it worked with it and not-nationalising but breaking up might work if put in practice, all it does now is get a regional third party made up of essentially the french wing of Harper's electors almost elected.
Then they can kick themselves off the internet.