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Is Free Really the Future of Gaming?

TRNick writes "Is the future of gaming more or less free, perhaps funded by advertising or micropayments? A bunch of MMOs have pioneered the way, and now they are being followed by the likes of EA, Sony and id Software, each of which is offering some form of free gaming. But it's not just the big guys. TechRadar talks to a new generation of indie developers who are making names for themselves. 'I make most of my money from sponsors,' says one. 'We're all here because we love making games first and foremost,' says another. But can free games ever make enough money to fund the really ambitious, event games that get the headlines?" While paid games aren't likely to be on their way out any time soon, more and more developers and publishers are experimenting with cheaper pricing, and the results so far seem positive.

230 comments

  1. Free and Open Source? by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Personally, I'm not interested in the varying methods that big game houses can extract revenue from their sweatshop produced big titles. I want to know about the future of Open Source game development, and where that'll go in the next decade. The Linux kernal and other big projects prove that large, complex projects can be accomplished under the FOSS model.

    Given the right leadership and drive, I would really like to see an MMO spring up around an unlicenced universe (not one of the done-to-death and copyrighted to hell ones like Star Wars or LoTR) but one that is perhaps by an obscure author and in the public domain. This would allow content developers to develop the game's stories without needing to buy expensive licences so they can use the name "Harry Potplant" or whatever it is.

    Perhaps an FPS with some new twists that the big houses are too gutless to try due to the uncertainty associated with stepping away from The Formula. Perhaps something like the original System Shock, where you truly do get cerebrally challenged. Most FPS games now have to appeal to 14 year olds with ADHD. Oh, how I miss the days when you actually had to *think* between firefights.

    Where are games that break the moulds the way XCom, Syndicate, System Shock and Bioforge did? We just don't get that level of innovation in the gaming industry any more, and I think that FOSS should come to the rescue. We've put a gigantic thorn in the side of the likes of Microsoft, now let's stick it to EA and Rockstar. They're no less stifling to innovation than Microsoft so why should we let them get away unmolested?

    --
    I hate printers.
    1. Re:Free and Open Source? by interkin3tic · · Score: 2, Funny

      Personally, I'm not interested in the varying methods that big game houses can extract revenue from their sweatshop produced big titles.

      Personally, I'm less interested in the buisness or the open-source aspect of it and more interested in getting frags in Quake Live and still having enough money to buy necessities. Like porn and beer, which should also be free. Someone should work on that.

    2. Re:Free and Open Source? by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem with this is that open source tends to excel at function and suck at polish. Despite excellent function, most OSS developers can't develop an interface or decent icon artwork to save their lives. It's just not where their strength lies. Now, for many applications - compressing video, burning a CD, etc, this is something that we can easily live with. Our goal in using the app is to complete a task and so long as the task gets completed then everyone is happy.

      Games are the opposite though. The artwork, interface, and general polish are essentially the main component. The actual background engine is just a minor piece.

      Not to mention that you necessarily MUST maintain variety in games. As long as the OSS manages to produce ONE decent web browser then the rest are nice, but not really required. If we get ONE good OS kernel then that niche is covered. It leads to a consolidation of resources to make sure each particular need is taken care of. And the community can spend YEARS tweaking and modifying a single product to become progressively better. Games don't work that way. People play them for a while, and then get bored and want a new one. While purchasing dollars can keep them churning out fast enough to satisfy the masses, I'm not sure pure goodwill can make games fast and varied enough.

      There's also an issue for things like MMORPG as to maintaining a unified authority. I don't have to choose which WoW service to subscribe to. All the players are consolidated into 1 place, and I can trust Blizzard to keep all the data trustworthy and not tamper with it (like giving their buddies free epics or the like). For certain types of multiplayer games without some authorative source, a lot of people wouldn't be interested in them.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    3. Re:Free and Open Source? by thesazi · · Score: 3, Funny

      Personally, I'm less interested in the buisness or the open-source aspect of it and more interested in getting frags in Quake Live and still having enough money to buy necessities. Like porn and beer, which should also be free. Someone should work on that.

      you're obviously doing it wrong.

    4. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kernal

      Talking about Commodore 64 games, are we?

    5. Re:Free and Open Source? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem with this is that open source tends to excel at function and suck at polish. Despite excellent function, most OSS developers can't develop an interface or decent icon artwork to save their lives. It's just not where their strength lies. Now, for many applications - compressing video, burning a CD, etc, this is something that we can easily live with. Our goal in using the app is to complete a task and so long as the task gets completed then everyone is happy. Games are the opposite though. The artwork, interface, and general polish are essentially the main component. The actual background engine is just a minor piece. Not to mention that you necessarily MUST maintain variety in games.

      Right. You don't want your game to end up irrelevant in a few months time, like Poker or Solitaire. It's the flashy, pop-culture references and glitzy, trendy looking artwork that give games replay value...

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    6. Re:Free and Open Source? by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Funny

      so they can use the name "Harry Potplant" or whatever it is.

      I always knew the Harry Potter franchise was missing something..... ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    7. Re:Free and Open Source? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      It's the flashy, pop-culture references and glitzy, trendy looking artwork that give games replay value...

      Huh? The game that I've found to have the most replay value is Civ2, hardly known for it's "glitzy trendy looking artwork". I've also found that DOSBox and Snes9x are two of the coolest pieces of software ever written. To each their own I guess.....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:Free and Open Source? by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 1

      How exactly does "polish" in any way mean "flashy, pop-culture references and glitzy, trendy looking artwork"? Go beat your strawman elsewhere.

    9. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sarcasm ------>

                              your head

    10. Re:Free and Open Source? by Chabo · · Score: 2, Funny

      All the players are consolidated into 1 place, and I can trust Blizzard to keep all the data trustworthy and not tamper with it (like giving their buddies free epics or the like).

      Are you sure? ;)

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    11. Re:Free and Open Source? by Chabo · · Score: 4, Funny

      No kidding. Polish people are cool enough that they don't have to rely on glitz.

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    12. Re:Free and Open Source? by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

      Oh, how I miss the days when you actually had to *think* between firefights.

      Depending on what kind of think you mean, Nexuiz (especially played 1v1) may be for you.

      You can hear items picked up, even when not picked up by yourself. By remembering where items are placed and how they're clustered, you can figure out where your opponent is and which direction he's going in; this allows you to ambush him and avoid getting shot in the back.

      Also, keeping track of armor pickup times and respawn rates lets you take the armor instead of your opponent more regularly.

      Then there's opponent modeling: I just almost killed him so he's going for health; I picked up the big one, there's a small one nearby and two small ones further away, but I can easily intercept and ambush him for the one further away which he knows, so [etc.]. Or: I just killed him so he's likely to go for a weapon; I heard where he is so he's likely to go for the rocket launcher nearby, so if I intercept him...

      I conjecture that in almost all FPSes, you can be worse at aiming than your opponent and still win if you outsmart him. You can't be ridiculously worse at aiming, but thinking definitely adds to the level of skill at which you play.

      If you're hoping for Zelda-style thinking (I must admit I don't know System Shock), I think the problem is the usual one for Free Software games, which is this:

      For a programmer, it's great fun writing a 3d engine, or FPS networking code, or some other piece of code that goes into a game.

      Doing all the art work* takes either a programmer with that as another interest, or a non-programmer. I conjecture that we don't have outspoken charismatic leaders like Stallman who talks in a way that appeals to non-programmers and makes them want to volunteer work on the non-coding side of free software (games, in particular).

      I also don't see a viable business model (meaning you could pay for the artwork). Stick it in a box, put it in the shops and hope people don't notice they're allowed to copy the game?

      * art work includes all the things that qualifies as "an art": graphics, sound design, music, voice acting, story writing, and in this case, puzzle design.

    13. Re:Free and Open Source? by RCanine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally, I'm not interested in the varying methods that big game houses can extract revenue from their sweatshop produced big titles. I want to know about the future of Open Source game development, and where that'll go in the next decade. The Linux kernal and other big projects prove that large, complex projects can be accomplished under the FOSS model.

      The problem with this is that open source tends to excel at function and suck at polish. Despite excellent function, most OSS developers can't develop an interface or decent icon artwork to save their lives. It's just not where their strength lies. Now, for many applications - compressing video, burning a CD, etc, this is something that we can easily live with. Our goal in using the app is to complete a task and so long as the task gets completed then everyone is happy.

      I think this is ready to change. The field of User Interface Design is really only starting to blossom. Programming has been around for a few decades now. Once UID becomes as mainstream as programming is, there will be many more designers and architects with the same incentives to build free software as there are programmers now. We're just not there yet.

    14. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have to choose which WoW service to subscribe to. All the players are consolidated into 1 place, and I can trust Blizzard to keep all the data trustworthy and not tamper with it (like giving their buddies free epics or the like). For certain types of multiplayer games without some authorative source, a lot of people wouldn't be interested in them.

      Not entirely true, and one of my biggest complaints with WoW.

      Back when I played, I joined the same Realm two of my friends were in.

      I had another group of 4 friends that played WoW, but they were horde on another realm in another batlegroup, so theres ZERO interaction with them.

      I had another 4 or 5 friends off irc who were all on different realms

      And of course went on to run into a few random other wow players, all of course on different realms.

      The closest I had was people in the same battlegroup so that we could get on ventrilo and both queue up for battlegrounds a the same time, then only take it if we end up in the same number. Thats.. pretty awful.

      In every other blizzard game you can /whisper people no matter what game they're playing. in WoW, if they picked Moonrunner instead of Draka, you're never even going to so much as talk to them ingame.

    15. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When it comes to games, the OSS community is far behind the private sector in terms of quality. VERY far behind.

    16. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words: Entertain me! I don't care how, just do it!

      Fucking MTV generation.

    17. Re:Free and Open Source? by BlitzTech · · Score: 1

      While FOSS gaming is great in theory, don't forget that developing a game can be a full-time job, and full-time employees need to get paid. Some game developers can be motivated to make great games simply because they want to, but many would probably prefer some monetary compensation for the effort put into making a game. For example, the MMO game you suggested would take an incredible amount of effort to create - even without significant content created by the original programmers, that project would take many years. Without a user-oriented pay structure, it would likely depend on sponsorships and ad placement to generate revenue and pay the developers to continue working on it. You may be willing to endure these for a free game, but I would prefer to pay for a game that did not have advertisements all over the place.

      As much as I'd love to play great games without paying for them, I would rather play great games I have to pay for than mediocre free games. Even in TFA on indie developers, many of them admit that they're financially stable only due to sponsorships and ad placement, and a few are in on affiliate programs. Flashbang's Steve Swink says "As it turns out, keeping these revenue streams open crushes our fragile creative souls" - though he claims their company can still make great games for free, he admits it has a detrimental effect on their creativity. BTW, they're still planning on monetizing it eventually, making their 'free' version essentially a more fully-featured demo.

      I'm all for FOSS, don't get me wrong, and as I said before, I'd love to play a great game for free. Seeing as my options for free games tend to range from 'mediocre' to 'casual', and I'm more of a 'hardcore' gamer, I'd prefer to pay for the games I like. It seems none of the big studios or indie developers have figured out a way to adequately monetize a 100% free-to-play game yet (microtransaction-based games do not count in that category - those are more like partially-free-to-play), and once they do, I'm sure we'll see a huge shift in gaming.

      Until then, though, you'll have to be content with what's out there. You can do something about it and join a FOSS game team and make one of the games you want to play, or only buy games that are worth your money. Want to stick it to EA and Rockstar? Stop buying their games. Vote for what you want with your money. If a game is overpriced or poor quality, don't give the developers money. If it's a high quality game, then pay for it - or donate, if you find a FOSS game of that caliber.

    18. Re:Free and Open Source? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      How exactly does "polish" in any way mean "flashy, pop-culture references and glitzy, trendy looking artwork"?

      Yeah, I can't figure it out either. Guess that's why I'm not one of the guys making modern commercial games... I'm so stupid about these things, I just play games like Wesnoth and Teeworlds and OpenArena. I'm probably not nearly as efficient with my fun time as I could be...

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    19. Re:Free and Open Source? by BlitzTech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to mention that the two programs you mention are emulators, and the games you play on them were likely commercial games at some point in their life...

    20. Re:Free and Open Source? by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      The actual background engine is just a minor piece.

      Fuck you too.

      it supposed to go:
      and
      fuck you

    21. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoosh...

    22. Re:Free and Open Source? by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Another big thing in games are sound effects and music. Which usually don't come very free (at least to get really good, immersive music/effects). Then again, a lot of amateur composers (me!) are willing to do stuff pretty cheaply, but it's not going to sound like the LA Phil playing a soundtrack. :)

      Electronic music is a cheaper route, as well, but genre/style of music has a huge impact on the style/feel of the game. I can't imagine playing Baldur's Gate with electronic music as its soundtrack :(

    23. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoosh!

    24. Re:Free and Open Source? by poena.dare · · Score: 1

      OK now you've got be interested in DOSBox... now recommend a front end!

    25. Re:Free and Open Source? by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      I seem to remember Harry passing out plenty of times at school, typically when he was in divination staring into some smoking cauldron...

    26. Re:Free and Open Source? by bami · · Score: 2, Informative

      I used to have a frontend for mine, but when switching to ubuntu, ditched that.
      In both windows and linux is pretty easy to just make shortcuts, dosbox supports a lot of command-line arguments so you can just make each shortcut automount your dir and run the appropriate file.

      But here are my recommendations for windows:

      First, all frontends listed here:
      http://www.dosbox.com/wiki/DOSBoxFrontends

      Then:
      D-fend: Pretty easy to use, has dosbox profiles that is basically just a different config file for each dosbox game, along with some general info. Games can be sorted on developer etc. Discontinued, but there is D-fend reloaded. No experience with that though.

      D.O.G. : Easy to use, pretty much same functionality as d-fend. Also added zip functionality (just keep all your game-related stuff in a zip). Also a version of dosbox can be specified per game so if a update of dosbox breaks a game you can use both versions side-by-side.

    27. Re:Free and Open Source? by jamesmcm · · Score: 1

      A huge step forward would be getting Epic and Valve to open source Unreal Tournament and Half-life respectively as id Games has done with Quake.

      The problem is it takes a lot of work to develop a game engine (and a lot of planning too). Just a few FOSS engines would help push it forward a lot.

    28. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Despite excellent function, most OSS developers can't develop an interface or decent icon artwork to save their lives.

      This is exactly the root of the problem - content.

      As an indie developer, we find that most of the cost of game development is tied in with the graphics, models, and other "polish", including content like plot, etc.

      I've seen some interesting moves with user-driven content, but when you "crowd-source" your development you lose (not loose) quality control & unified themes. ie. you end up with a mish-mash of art styles and vastly differing content quality. Often there are many excellent pieces, but without being unified into a cohesive whole, it still falls short.

      And this doesn't even begin to address big-studio type productions that need to rely on large render farms for cut-scenes, etc.

      All in all, I think what we'll see in the near future is a dramatic rise in middle-ware apps that stay afloat with small fees, ad content, and micro-purchases. Larger, more 'polished' games will still require heavy up-front investment to justify the resources put into development.

      The other major factor in play is what target system the games are available on. Cheaply made middleware tends to exist in the realm of browser-based games or are targeted only at Windows boxes. Part of the price of a big-name studio release comes from developing native code for consoles/multiple platforms.

    29. Re:Free and Open Source? by Krater76 · · Score: 1

      Given the right leadership and drive, I would really like to see an MMO spring up around an unlicenced universe (not one of the done-to-death and copyrighted to hell ones like Star Wars or LoTR) but one that is perhaps by an obscure author and in the public domain.

      This has been done and they were called MUDs. Any MUD worth it's salt was a fork in one of the many OS MUD codebases and was highly customized. A lot of them were based on private domain IP (Star Wars, LOTR, D&D, etc) because they flew under the radar by being free to play.

      The problem with MUDs, and OSS in general, is management. People come and go, make good decisions and bad, and it can all disappear overnight because a few of the devs just aren't interested in continuing working on or hosting the thing. Customers wouldn't be too happy building up a character for months or years and then just have it disappear overnight.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    30. Re:Free and Open Source? by Kranerian · · Score: 1

      One (compund) word: StarCraft.

      --
      Do you have any idea how long it takes to dig graves for twenty-three oak trees?
    31. Re:Free and Open Source? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      You do realize that all those different "realms" that you and your friends are on are also known as "servers"? The reason you and your friends spread across different servers can't communicate, is because, well, you are on different servers. There are like 10 million people on WoW. You don't expect Blizzard to reinvent the Internet just so your dwarf can chat with your friend's orc, do you?

      A more valid complaint would by my L57 dwarf sitting idle on a server in the UK because Blizzard won't transfer him to a server in the US. I'd even expect to pay for that, but they won't. I guess they don't want Euro Gold to deflate US Gold prices.

    32. Re:Free and Open Source? by Rycross · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Hey if that works for you then that's great, but I personally don't want to play the same three games all the time, especially if they're equivalent to what the commercial gaming scene put out ten years ago. I like variety and polish, and when FOSS can put out the depth and breadth of the commercial sector without re-using old commercially-developed engines, then I'll start looking at it as a viable option. Just because you enjoy the FOSS gaming scene doesn't mean its good enough for everyone.

    33. Re:Free and Open Source? by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      There are like 10 million people on WoW. You don't expect Blizzard to reinvent the Internet just so your dwarf can chat with your friend's orc, do you?

      Actually.... yes. (And, they wouldn't have to reinvent the Internet... They could use a stripped down IM implementation behind the scenes.)
      You don't have to have inter-server *Instant* Messaging. You could have inter-server comms that are slower than real-time; it'd still be better that the situation that the PP relates.

    34. Re:Free and Open Source? by Rycross · · Score: 1

      And if two people with the same name on two servers are online at the same time? /w Rycross@[Server]? Friends lists? There are UI implications, so its not quite as straightforward as you make it out to be. In the end, you can just run your IM client beside WoW.

    35. Re:Free and Open Source? by mjeffers · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a UI Designer, let me say I really doubt this. There just simply aren't the incentives for a designer to work on OSS as there are for a developer.

      Working on an OSS project without the ability to code means my ability to get design done depends on influence. Influence that will likely have to be accomplished across chat or VOIP with people I've never met who may have worked on this for a while or have strong opinions about how it should be designed PLUS the ability to completely ignore me and check in whatever they want. Additionally, while a draw for a developer to work on OSS might be that you're working absent the processes and influences of other less-programmy groups (marketing and design for instance), this removes any organizational leverage I may have as a designer to get things done.

      While my dev friend gets a cool way to try out stuff they want to play with absent all those annoying rules at work, I get stuck in a situation with so little ability to do my job that if it were something I was being paid for, I'd likely quit. I'd rather spend my free time either selling my skills to clients (allows me to build up a network if I ever want to go out on my own), working on my own projects (fun + might be better for the portfolio than the game where I struggled for 6 months to get something I'm really not happy with in the end), or just relaxing.

      Perhaps in an OSS company focused on building games you could get the structure you need to make OSS design work for designers, but the traditional "give away the code and charge for service/support" model doesn't seem too workable for games so I'm struggling to see how a business would work.

    36. Re:Free and Open Source? by Draek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Given the right leadership and drive, I would really like to see an MMO spring up around an unlicenced universe (not one of the done-to-death and copyrighted to hell ones like Star Wars or LoTR) but one that is perhaps by an obscure author and in the public domain.

      Why not one that already belongs to F/OSS? the Wesnoth universe is quite rich, story-wise, and the setting's lack of legendary uber soldiers (read: Jedi) would make it perfect for a MMO, in my opinion.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    37. Re:Free and Open Source? by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      Your UI point is solid, and one that I am aware of. I was addressing PP's technology comment.

      IMO, inter-server chat could make use of something like the Steam Community Overlay. (Press a key combo, get a translucent overlay that provides access to your Flists and "IM" windows.)

    38. Re:Free and Open Source? by prozaker · · Score: 1

      advertising partners come to mind. not sure how that would play out tho.

    39. Re:Free and Open Source? by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1

      Unlikely to happen, for the same reason you don't see FOSS movies. A large fraction of the work that goes into an MMOG or movie is work for which FOSS makes no sense.

      FOSS makes sense for a kernel or a compiler, because if I contribute to making the kernel or compiler better, that gives me back a tool that I use in my future work, and I can also take code fragments from others that contributed and use them in my future work--due to the modularity of software.

      For games, an FOSS engine makes sense. FOSS artwork, music, scripting, voice acting, etc., make no sense at all.

    40. Re:Free and Open Source? by JMZero · · Score: 1

      I love X-Com, but it was one of the very best titles of its era; it's unfair to complain that most new games aren't as innovative or good, because most old games weren't as innovative or good.

      And, conversely, most old games weren't as innovative or good as Braid or Portal. In fact, most old games were not as good as a very bad modern game.

      And many of the best "old games" weren't innovative either. Super Mario 3, Ultima IV and Star Control II were "just another sequel"s. Starcraft was an evolution on a theme. But they are all shining examples of their genres - and I'd be happy to have more boring sequels if they were of that kind of quality.

      98% of games are garbage, but it's got very little to do with innovation dying out - and much more to do with the fact that writing a good game is hard and often doesn't result in more sales than writing a mediocre one.

      --
      Let's not stir that bag of worms...
    41. Re:Free and Open Source? by Numbstruck · · Score: 1

      City of Heroes/City of Villains has "global" friends which uses your account name (which has to be unique) as the handle to all your characters on any of the servers. This was one of the first things I missed when I started playing WoW.

    42. Re:Free and Open Source? by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Oh, how I miss the days when you actually had to *think* between firefights.

      Ah yes, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake.... Wait a second, which days were you talking about again?

    43. Re:Free and Open Source? by Patch86 · · Score: 1

      IMHO, the big problem with FOSS games is that FOSS is, generally, pretty leaderless and community-driven.

      With something like, say, CD burning, this doesn't tend to matter. CD burning software has one single really obvious goal: to be really good at burning disks, with the possible additional goal of: being easy to use. Even the most fragmented group of volunteers can't argue too much about that.

      But with games, EVERYTHING is a matter of taste. Every feature, every mode, every act of balancing, every model texture, it's all subjective. Getting 1000's of volunteers to agree unanimously on these choices is nearly impossible; without the strict leadership that comes from the rigid corporate structure, the project either devolves into squabbling or fractures into numerous spin-offs.

      There are obvious exceptions, but its notable that many of them (FreeCiv, FreeCol, various FPSs and RTSs) are attempts to recreate some existing game, where the aforementioned choices are already made. The number of brand-new, from scratch FOSS games are pretty thin on the ground.

    44. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MMORPG games can very well be open source, but the service does not have to be free. If you want the authority, you pay. If you don't, you try some of the servers that hobbyists run for free, or start your own for you and your friends.

    45. Re:Free and Open Source? by Jaqenn · · Score: 1

      I want to know about the future of Open Source game development, and where that'll go in the next decade.

      I think that there is a lot of potential in an OSS game engine which runs proprietary content packs.

      --
      You are awash in a sea of fiercely stated opinions. Obvious exits are: 'File->Quit', 'Reply', and 'Page Down'.
    46. Re:Free and Open Source? by DirtyUncleRon69 · · Score: 1

      Porn isn't free?

      --
      They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    47. Re:Free and Open Source? by Rycross · · Score: 1

      Thats interesting. It would be nice if you could look up the account name in general, not just for chat purposes. Players with bad reputations tend to re-roll or get their names changed in order to cover up their bad reputations.

    48. Re:Free and Open Source? by shungi · · Score: 1

      Yes! I have often thought that this would be an amazing project. And, i have some great ideas... Only problem. I can't program.

    49. Re:Free and Open Source? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Opensource game development requires a large number of people agreeing to make a specific game. Usually you will only get that much consent when the plan is "copy commercial game X and make it better". Hence most major opensource games are just plain old ripoffs of commercial titles.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    50. Re:Free and Open Source? by KDR_11k · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Having designers is one thing, having programmers listen to them is another. A common attitude for opensource software is "you can get the code, implement it yourself!". People implement their own ideas, not those of other people and most people suck at having good ideas.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    51. Re:Free and Open Source? by grumbel · · Score: 1

      Another big thing in games are sound effects and music.

      Music is pretty easy compared to the rest, since there are tons of musicians around that produce music under Creative Commons licenses, its quite easy to get those hop onto an Open Source project or just recycle their work if it fits. Sound effects on the other side are pretty hard, because that isn't exactly something people do just for the fun of it, you don't find sound effects community on the net like you find graphic artists and music communities. High quality sound effects also have the disadvantage that you might need expensive stuff to produce them, hard to capture the sound of a Ferrari or an AK-47 when you don't have one around. Last not least, sound effects are also extremely confusing in terms of license, you will find tons of "free" ones on the net or on CD collections, but pretty much never anything that is suitable for an Open Source project.

    52. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, OpenArena is the antithesis of polish. 90% of the models/textures/levels in OpenArena look like complete crap, even when compared to an 8 year old game like Q3. Just look at their front page. The place you'd think they'd try to show off their "best" work and it still looks like shit. OpenArena is about the worst example you could have come up with to try to argue that OSS games have "polish".

      And the gameplay/code is just a carbon copy of Q3 with whatever the current developer thinks is a bug fix or improvement, meaning they didn't even have to spend time on that to make it good/balanced/fun, they just took a great game and tweaked it to their personal liking (without even having a real overall direction like most amateur mod teams have).

      You may have fun playing OpenArena, and you may (from a personal taste perspective) like the art in the game, but the fact is from a modern game development art standpoint (hell, even from a 10 years ago game development art standpoint), the game is amateur at best, shitty at worst, and completely lacks anything even resembling polish, cohesion, or direction. I've seen and worked on mods that had more polish in their artwork than OpenArena.

    53. Re:Free and Open Source? by ildon · · Score: 1

      Why? So gold spammers can spam you more easily? You know these people, is it really that complex to play the game in fullscreen windowed mode with an IM client running in the background and changing focus to it whenever you want to talk to them? Why is this something Blizzard should do when there's already 100 other companies doing it and doing it better?

    54. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wolf3d, Doom and Quake were sequentially huge leaps over each other, and takes on a new idea. Wolf3d may look old hat now, but it was the innovator that started the FPS genre.

      Also, I believe the OP mentioned a bunch of innovative titles in his post. Reading is good. Not being an idiot is also good. Try it, if you can.

    55. Re:Free and Open Source? by vikstar · · Score: 1

      So perhaps the crux lies in open source game development tools. Blender 3d and AGS are fairly good examples of what I mean. Perhaps a tool similar to Kodu but have it open source instead.

      --
      The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.
    56. Re:Free and Open Source? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      The whole USA is the MTV generation??

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    57. Re:Free and Open Source? by haywire7 · · Score: 1

      An open source game along the lines of PlanetSide would work really well, it would just be the server and set up costs that would hold you back.

    58. Re:Free and Open Source? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Oh, how I miss the days when you actually had to *think* between firefights.

      I miss the games that made you think during fire fights, like the old rainbow 6 series. We've all seen what this has become, the last decent R6 was Raven Shield released in 2003.

      I also miss the inventory management that went along with many PC games. With System Shock or Deus Ex you had to pick and choose what you carried as you had limited space, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. bought this back but I very rarely see it in modern shooters, inventory management has been dumbed down to pick two weapons and have more ammo then you could possible carry (but don't worry about that as we'll just leave 1000's of rounds just lying around for you). Halo style health has also eliminated the need to actually think about fire fights and conserve health, when it just regenerates you can walk into a spray of bullets and not worry as you'll just get back all the health you lost. Dont even get me started on the "you never die" theory of gaming that started in Bioshock which is not as good as people like to think.

      Take Far Cry 2 for example of how the Lowest Common Denominator style of development kills good games, it becomes unplayable if you don't have ADHD. The game forces you to stop what you are doing and kill something every 20 seconds, this gets worse later in the game. The crappy thing is that apart from the Halo style health regeneration it would be quite a good game, it has brilliant graphics, excellent game play and the all important immersion, well it would have the all important immersion if I didn't have to stop enjoying the scenery and kill something every 20 seconds. I'd be completely sucked in by the environment in far cry 2 but the developers seemed to think that this was a bad idea and their entire audience was a bunch of ADHD inflicted Halo tragics rather then the type of gamer who enjoyed Far Cry 1. Crysis wasn't much better.

      If I had to say, the best FPS for me last year for the PC was S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (both Shadows of Chernobyl and Clear Sky) which despite all their flaws were quite addicting games, they had dated graphics engines which weren't very efficient (their age kind of made up for the slowness by the virtue that modern hardware is more powerful then the hardware the engines were designed for), these games had excellent stories and great game play. They had their minor annoyances but I found them to be a great mix of tactical shooter (R6 series) and FPS/RTS hybrid (System Shock, Deus Ex).

      Fortunately the Strategy front was better, Supreme Commander, Sins of a Solar Empire and Galactic Civilisations 2 as well as Civ 4, which were released or release add-on packs last year which were well and truly above par, the worst of the lot was Supreme Commander Forged Alliance, which was still quite good. Although there were strategy disappointments such as Company of Heroes, which at first looks like a decent game but gets old fast, the add-on pack was terrible.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    59. Re:Free and Open Source? by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      Why? So gold spammers can spam you more easily?

      A whitelist styled friends list fixes that.
      * Only permit comms between people who have friended each other.
      * Allow people to remove others from their own friends list.
      * To prevent gold farmers from spamming with friends requests, don't announce when people friend you.

      is it really that complex to play the game in fullscreen windowed mode with an IM client running in the background and changing focus to it whenever you want to talk to them?

      No. It's not that complex. However, -in the spirit of reductio ad absurdum- why have in-game chat at all? Blizzard should have distributed mIRC with each WoW client and set up a chan on EFNet to do all in-game chatting. :D

    60. Re:Free and Open Source? by poena.dare · · Score: 1

      thanks very much!

    61. Re:Free and Open Source? by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      The kernel and other big projects definitely prove that complex projects are possible, they don't however prove complex game development is possible.

      Good games are about more than good programmers(which the open source movement has plenty of), they're about good artists, good writers, good testers, good designers, a whole raft of people with different talents and skills. They also don't generally get designed well by committee.

      They also have to run on systems people actually have(which includes windows), provide them with what they want(as opposed to what the developers want), have really good user interfaces, be relatively innovative, and a whole bunch of other things FOSS has yet to prove to be good at.

      So generally speaking, the answer to your question is that Open Source gaming is going to remain where it is now, a few very clever text based games, engines the big game houses have open sourced after they've extracted what money they're worth, and mediocre crap.

    62. Re:Free and Open Source? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Games are the opposite though. The artwork, interface, and general polish are essentially the main component. The actual background engine is just a minor piece.

      *Cough*

      You're trying to tell me that a game with a really really fantastically good looking interface and a crap engine is good?

      As a gamer I tend to want to do more then just look at the interface, I'll actually want to play the game and if the engine is buggy or the game mechanics are terrible a good interface will not make up for this. Sorry but your order of priorities are a bit skewed, the engine always comes first, always, always, always. to say otherwise is to say that the paint on your house more important then its foundations. UI doesn't even come second, 4th or 5th, there are so many things that can ruin a game before the UI, on the other hand there are so many things that can make a good game despite a bad UI. UI is in the same category as the graphics, I can get over bad or outdated graphics if the game plays well, same with a bad UI, if the game crashes constantly or has serious game play problems a good UI will not make me like the game.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    63. Re:Free and Open Source? by murdocj · · Score: 1

      One thing that Blizzard is REALLY good at is being very responsive on the stuff that matters to a majority of the player base. Unlike some other MMOs, they actually listen and continue to add useful features that benefit the vast majority of players. But part of being responsive to the vast majority is that they don't try to implement features just because they are "cool" or "technically interesting".

      I'd guess that inter-realm chat is way, way down the priority list of most people. I've certainly never heard anyone complain about missing it, either in game or in several WoW podcasts I listen to. And if you've ever listened to World of Warcast, the hosts complain about virtually everything, so if they don't mention wanting it, it really is low priority.

    64. Re:Free and Open Source? by wrook · · Score: 1

      Despite excellent function, most OSS developers can't develop an interface or decent icon artwork to save their lives. It's just not where their strength lies.

      I'd counter by saying that this is also true of most proprietary developers. I worked for 20 years making crappy interfaces because the PGM just wanted something to stick on the feature list on the box. They weren't interested in something that the user would actually use. The difference for games is that if you have a crappy interface, nobody will play your game.

      I've been involved in free software for a long time. At every stage of the way people would say things like "Oh yeah, you can get text editors and simple shell tools, but nobody is going to write an optimizing compiler. It's just too much work." And then, "OK, people will write developer tools because they need them, but nobody will write office software, because programmers don't use them." And then, "OK, people will write office software, but nobody will write a desktop shell that a normal person would want to use". This is just another step in the evolution of free software.

      The thing is, we need to develop new skills. I know, I personally have spend a lot more time thinking about user interfaces than I used to. I now spend several days trying out different workflows for every scenario that I'm implementing. I still suck at it, but I am improving. I'm not alone, either. Other people I talk to are starting to understand the importance of this kind of thing.

      We have also historically been unable to recruit artistic talent into free software development. But this is changing rapidly. As the general populace sees the benefits of free culture, they begin to want to contribute -- just like programmers. The desire to create something cool on a computer is not limited to programmers. We still have a long way to go, but I've seen huge strides especially in the last 5 years. I agree with the OP. I'm very excited to see what gaming innovations come out of free software in the next 10 years.

    65. Re:Free and Open Source? by w0mprat · · Score: 1

      Personally, I'm less interested in the buisness or the open-source aspect of it and more interested in getting frags in Quake Live and still having enough money to buy necessities. Like porn and beer, which should also be free. Someone should work on that.

      Done and done.

      1. Get Girlfriend (kinky one).

      2. Homebrew (not one them stupid kits).

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    66. Re:Free and Open Source? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      There are a few problems with open source game development:

      1) The gameplay experience is 90% artwork. I don't just mean graphics - the sounds, backgrounds/levels, animation, gameplay, level design, storyline etc. are all artwork. Generally, Open Source contributors are programmers. The phrase "programmer art" was coined for a reason.

      2) Unified vision. A game needs a single strong creative vision to be built around. All that artwork in point 1 needs to follow a coherent theme, fit together stylistically, and integrate into a believable world. Unified vision and consistent style is... well, not what open source is best at.

      3) Games suffer far more than any other software (IMO) from the "second 90%" syndrome. That is, you get the game to what you think is 90% complete and realise that you have "the other 90%" to go before it's really finished, polished, and fun. The end of that first 90% is where many (if not most) commercial games finish, and when you rely not on venture capital but purely on your developers having fun, let me tell you from experience that the second 90% is not in any way fun, especially when you're just getting started on it.

      Oooh, I'm gonna get the hate for this one. :P But it's true... and IWACGD (I was a commercial game developer, and hope to be again someday in the future).

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    67. Re:Free and Open Source? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Yes. Yes it is. At least, it's better than a game with a really really fantastically good engine with a crappy interface and crappy gameplay.

      A game isn't about the tech behind it. You're thinking of a tech demo there. A game is about the user, and allowing that user to interact with the toy world you've made. And there's NOTHING that can screw that up faster than a retarded interface. Unresponsive controls, a bodgy autocam that won't stop looking at the wall while you're getting killed by aliens, a confusing interface which doesn't give you the information you need... any of those will slaughter a game even if it's _perfect_ in every other imaginable way.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    68. Re:Free and Open Source? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Yes. Yes it is. At least, it's better than a game with a really really fantastically good engine with a crappy interface and crappy gameplay.

      Now youre adding conditions.

      A game isn't about the tech behind it.

      Umm... yes it is. What do you have if you take away a games engine? at best a movie, at worst a bunch of pictures.

      A game is about the user, and allowing that user to interact with the toy world you've made.

      Yes, but does that world exist without the engine? its not a chicken or egg question, the engine must always be developed first.

      And there's NOTHING that can screw that up faster than a retarded interface.

      How about a dodgy engine that wont run?

      Unresponsive controls, a bodgy autocam that won't stop looking at the wall

      I/O is part of the engine, unresponsiveness is an I/O problem. If you complained about not being able to remap controls then you may have a point (personal pet hate of mine, I like my own weird control layout). Automated camera control is engine driven as well, manual camera control is part of the interface (sort of but I'll run with it) in which case if it's pointing at the wall its your fault.

      a confusing interface which doesn't give you the information you need..

      You have half a point here but not enough to make an argument that the interface is the most important component of a game. Inacurate or incomplete information can be worked around. I'm capable of building interfaces in my head when the games interface does not provide all the information required if the gameplay is addictive enough, this ability comes from playing the early strategy games. Gamers that didn't have this experience really are spoilt.

      any of those will slaughter a game even if it's _perfect_ in every other imaginable way.

      No I disagree, a bad interface I can work around, a critical bug, be it graphical, mechanical or story I cant. If the story and game play is crap but the interface is good I wont keep playing but if the interface is crap but the story and game play good I can keep playing, for the most part the interface is to provide clues, in many older games I didn't have such clues an thus trained myself to remember them or otherwise work around their requirements. Now I do like a good interface, although my idea of a good interface differs from other people ideas. This is why the interface is not the be all and end all of a game, because its mostly interpreted by the end user so it does not produce uniform responses from different gamers like a graphical or game mechanic or story issue (stories are highly interpreted but when a script is bugged it gets similar responses). Interfaces do not make games although I admit the make games better, the engine and game mechanics are an order of magnitude more important.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    69. Re:Free and Open Source? by fractoid · · Score: 1

      I think we're looking at different quality levels here. A game always needs background code in order to work, yes, but that's not really an "engine" unless it's an abstracted, generalised framework within which the game is built. If the engine flat-out doesn't work, or has critical bugs, then of course the game won't work. Commercial games work, though, in the vast majority. If a game is struggling to even install and run, it's not going to be competing for peoples' precious leisure time even if it's free.

      If the game does have a distinct, general purpose engine, then things like the camera, game mechanics, and controls are all configurable, so if they're behaving badly it's usually a design issue rather than a technical flaw with the engine. I'd put it this way - think of the engine as being 'hardware' and the game as being 'software' that's run on the engine. If the hardware doesn't work, obviously the system won't work. But the hardware's the easy bit to get right compared to the software, which is a lot more complex and determines almost everything about the actual behaviour of the system.

      I'll concede that the interface was the least crucial of the systems I was talking about as 'essential', but what I was trying to get at is that no matter how _technologically_ cruddy the code behind the pretty pictures is, what matters to the user is their gameplay experience. It could be powered by zombie hamsters pulling pieces of string to animate your character, but if to the user it looks smooth, responsive, engaging, and enjoyable, then it's a good game.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    70. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To a certain degree, modding tools like the Oblivion world editor are geared towards people with artistic skills but little to no programming knowledge.

      So far, though, there have only been a few independent projects ambitious enough to create really in-depth mods with their own storyline, voice acting, etc. Most mods are more of the "oh you can wear a new hat" variety.

      I think what it comes down to is that creating high quality art, especially 3d art, is extremely time consuming and there's not actually that many people who have the skills to do it.

      I also suspect that artistic vision is a little harder to share. Programmers have disagreements about code style and design, but it's usually much more flexible and there's only so many approaches you can take.

      Whereas with art, getting people to create consistent artwork for a project is not easy since most people have their own styles.

    71. Re:Free and Open Source? by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      Sound effects appear fairly trivial until you actually try to make realistic ones. Then it becomes very evident that sampled sounds become repetitive and obviously artificial unless you actively bring them alive with variations.

      Also, making a sound scale smoothly at different sample replay rates is exceptionally difficult. Every natural sound has 'formant' profiles, which are similar to a graphic equializer (simplistic explanation). When a sample is played at a different rate from its base sample frequency, the formant is shifted too, whereas the formant in real life would remain static (this is why the Chipmunk Effect happens on speech).

      A good sound effects artist (and I've worked with some of the best in the games world) knows how to minimize formant shifting effects by suppressing or enhancing different aspects of the audio spectrum (and other subtle tricks) so that it'll survive replay rate changes better than the original sampled sound.

      Getting something like a car engine sound which can go from idle to redline and still sound meaty is no mean feat; It takes hours of painstaking work. I just wonder why someone who had the skill and talent to pull off that feat maybe 50 times for one driving game would do it for no financial reward.

      Help me out here, guys. I just don't get it.

      --
      Squirrel!
    72. Re:Free and Open Source? by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      You may have fun playing OpenArena, and you may (from a personal taste perspective) like the art in the game, but the fact is from a modern game development art standpoint (hell, even from a 10 years ago game development art standpoint), the game is amateur at best, shitty at worst, and completely lacks anything even resembling polish, cohesion, or direction. I've seen and worked on mods that had more polish in their artwork than OpenArena.

      Yeah, but the fun is in the competition with the other players. Nothing else is relevant. At all. In the slightest. My deck of cards has worse art, and I still play with that too.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    73. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MRNaz said >>Given the right leadership and drive, I would really like to see an MMO spring up around an unlicenced universe

      YouSaid>> Google MUD, MOO, MUSH, MUCK, I could keep typing names for the next hour. www.mudconnect.com.

      If we truly are looking for "open source gaming" then we should be willing to put forth some effort to make it happen and grow. Right now there are almost 1000 active text based gaming systems online.

      While no one wants text with some effort and cooperation from those who "want open source gaming" the text based gaming could have a GUI client written for the player, that admin/developer and if your really excitable a whole game.

      If you build it they will come

      If you have enough time to complain and ask then you have enough time to help it build and grow.

    74. Re:Free and Open Source? by grumbel · · Score: 1

      The Linux kernal and other big projects prove that large, complex projects can be accomplished under the FOSS model.

      Not really, if you look around in the Free Software world you have a handful of large large Free Software projects that work good and can compete with commercial ones. The trouble is that its a tiny handful, the commercial game industry on the other side had to produces hundreds of high quality games in the same time to keep gamers busy. A good kernel can last you for decades, a good game on the other side lasts for a few month and then people want something new.

      Given the right leadership and drive, I would really like to see an MMO spring up around an unlicenced universe

      There is Worldforge, which has been around for a decade and yet to produce anything that is actually playable. The stop from proof of concept to actual game is a very tricky one and well, leadership is of course also an issue, Worldforge Uclient was already quite close to something like Ultima Online many years ago, but then things got ruined by some conflict between developers.

      Where are games that break the moulds the way XCom, Syndicate, System Shock and Bioforge did?

      The trouble is that its close to impossible to do anything original in Free Software, since when you go original, how do you convince your co-developers? Instead of working on an unproven idea, most people prefer to work on something which they know they will like. Which is why most successful FOSS games, or heck, most FOSS software projects in general, are clones of well known commercial titles. The reason why Linux got successful is because it was not original, people knew it was a Unix clone and they liked Unix, so they joined. Original stuff on the other side, like Hurd, has a much much harder time to get any traction.

      Another problem of FOSS gaming is that its hard to keep the vision stable and consistent over time, developers join and leave all the time, so even if all their individual work might be good or even great, the end result can often be a completly disconnected mess.

      In the end I don't expect FOSS gaming to make any large jumps any time soon, on the positive side however a large part of the FOSS gaming comes from actually developing them, so I recommend that anybody who wants to see things move forward, just joins one of the already existing projects.

    75. Re:Free and Open Source? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I did a quick headcount and in the Spring lobby we have 9 Polish players, does that count?

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    76. Re:Free and Open Source? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      The engine is not the game design or logic. The engine governs things like how resources are handled (bad engines can waste them). A really bad engine can hurt the game by affecting the game logic (e.g. collision problems, crashes) but that's probably not the level of bad he had in mind. A bad engine can just be freaking inefficient and a total nightmare to develop for while still permitting the target game design to function. It's like any backend, there's a whole load of badness it can have without the user noticing.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    77. Re:Free and Open Source? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      when FOSS can put out the depth and breadth of the commercial sector without re-using old commercially-developed engines, then I'll start looking at it as a viable option.

      What's wrong with re-using old commercially-developed engines? that just means you're getting more for your money. unless you're talking about inheriting an old commercially-developed codebase, which is not quite the same thing - it sounded like you were talking about game mods. Anyway, there are various Open Source projects to create new game engines as well. Unlike their commercial cousins, they are developed under Free/Open licenses, which means that they cannot be license-encumbered to the point where they can no longer be released (unless copyright is broken in some new way) thus they will continue to improve, whereas commercial game engines often eventually have to be abandoned or substantially rewritten to escape licensing SNAFUs.

      Eventually you're going to see fewer games having to write their own engines, because the available ones will cover more situations and offer performance worth taking advantage of, and then you'll see FoSS gaming take off a little more, with programming being (somewhat) simplified and content creation taking the driver's seat.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    78. Re:Free and Open Source? by Rycross · · Score: 1

      There's nothing "wrong" with it. What I'm saying is that modding an existing commercial game (non-libre, non-gratis), or taking a commercial engine that was sold non-gratis/non-libre and then building your game off of it, doesn't exactly demonstrate the ability for FOSS to deliver quality games. Its taking work that was done outside of the development model being promoted, and claiming it for its own.

      Somehow, I'm skeptical of the advantages of FOSS engines. There are a lot of great ones, don't get me wrong, but they always seem to be one step behind the commercial. I would love it if the FOSS scene could give me equivalents of Call of Duty 4 or WoW, but it hasn't so far, and I don't see it doing so in the future. Based on experience, the best I can hope for is small polished indie games, or large unpolished games that look like they should have been released 10 years ago.

    79. Re:Free and Open Source? by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Meh, I don't see Halo health as that bad, most FPSes on the PC had a quicksave button and you were supposed to use it liberally, redoing fights if they left you with too little health. With Halo health surviving is enough and you don't have to worry about the next health refill. Since there's no quickload button either that's probably for the best as you don't get the option to redo a botched fight.

      The problems with Far Cry 2 I heard about were more in the line of having an open world but doing it WRONG. Stuff like having to shoot guys from both sides even when working for one of them. Stuff like respawning enemies including refilling bases you cleaned out five minutes ago. The regenerating health was the least of its issues.

      I also disagree on SupCom and CoH, SupCom was a terribly lame and uninteresting game that had insane hardware requirements (though FA supposedly rectified some of its shortcomings). CoH was a great game that had you do more than just stupidly pump out the rock to the enemy's scissors and then attack moving plus the ticket counter system meant that the game would end without one player having to crush the other's base which saved time and meant that for the last part of the game one player wasn't just playing with a half demolished base just waiting for the death blow. I dunno, maybe SupCom is amazing if you didn't already encounter all its interface innovations in Spring with lower hardware requirements and better game content...

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    80. Re:Free and Open Source? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Somehow, I'm skeptical of the advantages of FOSS engines. There are a lot of great ones, don't get me wrong, but they always seem to be one step behind the commercial.

      Is that really a problem? A basic idea behind Free Software is that the code can be reused.

      I would love it if the FOSS scene could give me equivalents of Call of Duty 4 or WoW, but it hasn't so far, and I don't see it doing so in the future.

      MMORPGs are going to continue to be a sticky point for the foreseeable future. I don't know anything about CoD4 and I won't, because their site requires flash and I am now revulsed. Activision must die before they can find another classic franchise to murder.

      Based on experience, the best I can hope for is small polished indie games, or large unpolished games that look like they should have been released 10 years ago.

      If you just wait for certain games to iterate, you can get large polished games that look like they should have been released ten years ago :) On one hand, you have to wait. On the other hand, they're Free and free.

      I concur to some degree with everything you have said, but with the caveat that the situation is still evolving - and the rate of evolution is increasing as the size of the audience increases. Recent years have seen record increases in the popularity of video gaming.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    81. Re:Free and Open Source? by idontgno · · Score: 1

      How does it work in cross-realm (i.e., all) PVP battlegrounds? Toon names are something like "Charactername-Realmname", like "Spiffyorc-Malganis" instead of just "Spiffyorc". (Something like that; I don't PVP--PVP just happens to me while I'm doing stuff I actually enjoy.)

      So cross-realm comm is possible. It isn't done, outside of battlegrounds, for either (A) laziness, (B) bizarre role-playing policy, or (C) laziness. Well, (C) probably is more about development priorities. I'm sure the devs have full 80-hour weeks of task backlog, buffing Death Knights some more.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    82. Re:Free and Open Source? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Meh. Louisianna Phil isn't that great. I mean I like Zydeco, but it's only him on the accordion, and he's not very good. Plus he smokes too much and sings like Stevie Nicks.

      Oh, wait, you meant the L.A. Philharmonic... never mind.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    83. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, except substitute 'open source' with 'independent'.

      I feel it's a developer's sole responsibility to prove his game idea in the independent scene before wasting the community's time with an open source project. Once you've proven your idea and your credentials, then things should be ratcheted up a couple of notches with more manpower.

      This will have the effect of: 1. Not diluting the original idea with community input. 2. Filtering out the developers not yet ready to produce a title (despite the best of intentions). 3. Ensuring that the owner of the IP is not in question.

      We all love free games and as a game developer I love making them, but I wouldn't say no to just one of my projects being optioned for mainstream development and maybe hauling my poor ass out of the poorhouse at the same time.

    84. Re:Free and Open Source? by WhiteHorse-The+Origi · · Score: 1

      It will be supported by tournaments, same as any other sport. The games are already out there and wordlforge is coming along nicely

    85. Re:Free and Open Source? by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Meh, I don't see Halo health as that bad

      Halo is not that bad, its just not that good. It joins the other mediocre but playable FPS's on my shelf (yes I have the PC version of Halo).

      most FPSes on the PC had a quicksave button and you were supposed to use it liberally,

      Rainbow 6 had none (up until Lockdown, when the series went downhill). This may be the pattern in some FPS but not most. Also Halo was pretty damn liberal with the Autosave.

      With Halo health surviving is enough and you don't have to worry about the next health refill.

      There in lies my problem. It's not just with health but also with weapons and ammo, there's not need to conserve anything, no need for tactics or planning as long as you can run away and recharge. No point in trying to aim better as you had enough ammo to shoot more and a better aim did not have better results. For me it was braindead, whilst I like a braindead shooter once in a while and Halo is an excellent example it does not make anything other then an average game.

      The problems with Far Cry 2 I heard about were more in the line of having an open world but doing it WRONG. Stuff like having to shoot guys from both sides even when working for one of them. Stuff like respawning enemies including refilling bases you cleaned out five minutes ago. The regenerating health was the least of its issues.

      That's many of the gameplay issues there and if they didn't annoy you enough to drink then the engine bugs would. As for both sides shooting at you the story did a good job of covering that but it was the insanely quick re spawning and constant random attacks that ruined what would otherwise be a very immersive world.

      I also disagree on SupCom and CoH, SupCom was a terribly lame and uninteresting game that had insane hardware requirements (though FA supposedly rectified some of its shortcomings). CoH was a great game that had you do more than just stupidly pump out the rock to the enemy's scissors and then attack moving plus the ticket counter system meant that the game would end without one player having to crush the other's base which saved time and meant that for the last part of the game one player wasn't just playing with a half demolished base just waiting for the death blow. I dunno, maybe SupCom is amazing if you didn't already encounter all its interface innovations in Spring with lower hardware requirements and better game content...

      SupCom was a new level in strategy games, whilst you have a point about the HW reqs, that was to be expected when you realised just how much had changed in SupCom. SupCom is a game where strategy is actually requires and fastest click does not mean victory unlike other RTS's I can mention (cough, C&C3) if you didn't plan attacks and defences then you would be in trouble as you cant just send units towards the enemy base until they overwhelm it, it was easy to build a near impenetrable defence to blind rush attacks especially on larger maps, one needed to use tactics and combined arms to overcome that. There were no "rock, paper, scissors" type units, there were always more then one counter and never one sure fire counter to any other unit. A half demolished base in SupCom was completely recoverable if you were smart enough, also SupCom allowed for multiple bases so one half demolished base may mean that there is another fully functional base elsewhere. Also with SupCom you may notice the lack of a mini-map, this is because it was no longer needed given the way that zoom operated.

      COH on the other hand was completely "rock, paper, scissors" oriented. You'd have anti-tank guns for tanks, machine guns for infantry, infantry for anti tank guns and tanks for machine guns. Also CoH focused on the rush style of play and left little room for other RTS play styles. I also dislike off-map superweapons. Basically you

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    86. Re:Free and Open Source? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would be offended at that if I wasn't Polish myself.

    87. Re:Free and Open Source? by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      As a UI Designer, let me say I really doubt this. There just simply aren't the incentives for a designer to work on OSS as there are for a developer.

      You might look at the history of Jokosher, for insights on how to build a project where coders aren't king. No, it's not a game, but it at least entertainment related.

      --
      I Browse at +4 Flamebait

      Open Source Sysadmin

  2. No by Spazztastic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Greed is always going to overpower ambition, if not by the developers then the parent company.

    --
    Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    1. Re:No by Caue · · Score: 1

      go to newgrounds.com and stand corrected. Of course, some ads and a franchise of console games that are not free, but funded by the development and hosting of free games.

    2. Re:No by PaganRitual · · Score: 1

      What has greed got to do with anything? Or is this the whole "If you want to make any sort of money out of anything, you're not an artist, you've sold out" bullshit. People might love writing games, but people love to eat as well.

    3. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 1

      It's rule 82 of the Internet. If you find a way to make a living doing something that someone else can only do as a hobby, they will post on Slashdot and call you a sellout and a greedy corporate whore.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
  3. Free by iminplaya · · Score: 1

    is the future of everything

    --
    What?
    1. Re:Free by sdnoob · · Score: 1

      especially with the economy being what it is. i dunno if 'free' is the answer, but *cheaper* wouldn't hurt. i know that i can't justify paying 10-15 a month to play a game, not when everything else (that i *need*) is going up in price.

    2. Re:Free by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Funny

      You think there's a war now over IP (Imaginary Property) and its ease of copying and dissimination, wait until we have microscopic robots that can coordinate to manufacture anything you have a design for (I'm thinking Star Trek replicators).

      When that happens, the only thing with monetary value will be land. You think we're going through social upheaval, we ain't seen nothin'. Your grandchildren are in for a hell of a ride!

    3. Re:Free by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

      Nanobots will not do it alone, though. Fusion reactors are part of that equation. Imagine so much energy available to us that it will, for all intents and purposes, make energy almost infinite and free. Combine it with some technology to use that energy and use it to transform matter and...

      Forget coal & fuel. Forget rarity of metals: we can simulate the work of the stars themselves and *make rare metals* ourselves (although mining most of those in the asteroid belt or on jupiterian moons might more efficient eventually). Scarcity is suddenly much less of a problem. Society is redefined.

      --
      If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
    4. Re:Free by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I was alive in the '50s, when nuclear power was going to make electricity "too cheap to meter", so you'll excuse my skepticism. Nanobots will likely be powered by the earth's magnetic field itself, or fluttering breezes, etc.

      Nobody has ever known how primitive their world was, including us.

    5. Re:Free by prozaker · · Score: 1

      with so much free everything, labor will lose it's importance, and we will turn into a self indulging society of decay.
      we should suggest something to do with our free time.
      I suggest we do wars on other planets / galaxies.

    6. Re:Free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q: What happens if you take your imaginary property and you square it?

      A: You're in debt.

    7. Re:Free by jeffasselin · · Score: 1

      Three factors differentiate fission from fusion:
      - energy production is much higher (4x and +)
      - size of material required is much smaller (like 100 times less)
      - the material required is the most abundant in the universe, instead of rare elements

      And fission could, now, provide much cheaper, more efficient, less polluting energy than almost any other source, barring hydro-electricity. But people don't want it.

      --
      If he explores all forms and substances Straight homeward to their symbol-essences; He shall not die.
    8. Re:Free by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      Scarcity is suddenly much less of a problem.

      Scarcity is purely a political problem right now. We can drop a pallet anywhere on the planet in just over 12 hours. We pipe oil across across Alaska. We should have no trouble doing the same for water. Too many things we can do with existing tech that would have everybody living la vida loca.

      --
      What?
    9. Re:Free by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      When that happens, the only thing with monetary value will be land.

      Not even...Machines will be making that too. Even now I always kinda laugh at the people who say how crowded the planet is when I drive by a sign that says, "Next exit 60 miles".

      --
      What?
    10. Re:Free by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I have no doubts that when fusion is viable, it will be valuable as well. But the limiting factor isn't technology, it's greed.

    11. Re:Free by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      What I meant was the only non-free commodity will be land. Rich people are going to HATE it!

  4. Free is an option, not the future by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 5, Interesting

    While free games are certainly an option, I find it very difficult to believe that you are going to have a team of 10 developers working 5 days a week, for nothing to develop a game. If you want free games, then expect them to use last year's technology, be late and not necessarily have the same amount of finesse.

    Don't get me wrong, I will take a free game if I am given it, but I don't expect to get everything for free. If you do, then give up your day job, join a commune and don't cry when you don't have money to buy your next PC.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    1. Re:Free is an option, not the future by reashlin · · Score: 1

      I agree - I mean I can't imagine all those TV presenters working to no salary to provide me with some basic entertainment. All those people that expect TV to be "free" should go join a commune.

      Ad revenue sponsored gaming has real potential. In the same way TV advertising works - so could in game. It just has to be VERY carefully done so as not to alienate the players.

      Yes I am aware that in many cases people pay a small fee each month for those channels that offer content without advertising (or with minimal advertising)

    2. Re:Free is an option, not the future by BaronHethorSamedi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree - I mean I can't imagine all those TV presenters working to no salary to provide me with some basic entertainment. All those people that expect TV to be "free" should go join a commune. Ad revenue sponsored gaming has real potential.

      I dunno. I like gaming in part because it's more immersive than television. I'm always willing to put down a few bucks' worth of hard-earned income if it means I don't have to have my willing suspension of disbelief jarringly unsuspended by a Red Bull ad.

    3. Re:Free is an option, not the future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While free games are certainly an option, I find it very difficult to believe that you are going to have a team of 10 developers working 5 days a week, for nothing to develop a game. If you want free games, then expect them to use last year's technology, be late and not necessarily have the same amount of finesse.

      Don't get me wrong, I will take a free game if I am given it, but I don't expect to get everything for free. If you do, then give up your day job, join a commune and don't cry when you don't have money to buy your next PC.

      I think the future of games is either with the good old pay-for-the-game model in which case we'll see a lot of copy protection or games will be free and game companies will make their money form selling access to their game networks. The sponsorship model might also have its uses. I'm not given to expecting things for free either but with the pervasiveness of software piracy these days, it is hard to see how they can make money any other way. Unless you believe that bullshit about piracy boosting software sales in which case the game companies should put their products out on the pirate networks from day one and watch the goodwill dollars roll in.

    4. Re:Free is an option, not the future by Chabo · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you want...games, then expect them to use last year's technology, be late...

      Cool, more Valve games!

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    5. Re:Free is an option, not the future by Rary · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While free games are certainly an option, I find it very difficult to believe that you are going to have a team of 10 developers working 5 days a week, for nothing to develop a game.

      Who said anything about not paying developers? The article is about companies finding a different way to make money besides selling the game. They're still game companies, and they still pay their employees.

      --

      "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

    6. Re:Free is an option, not the future by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did you even bother to read the summary? This is about publishers going to games that are free but supported by ads or microtransactions. This has nothing to do with asking for people to work on games without pay. I know this is slashdot, but seriously you could read the first fucking sentence of the summary at least.

    7. Re:Free is an option, not the future by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In South Korea, I played a CS clone where ads were displayed while waiting to respawn. I thought that this was a really neat idea. Ads can really be targeted, and with a decent deployment base, paying a few developers fulltime is not out of question.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    8. Re:Free is an option, not the future by Chabo · · Score: 1
      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    9. Re:Free is an option, not the future by nobodylocalhost · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Free games are actually very bad for new development. Large game dev houses can afford to make free game because they are widely known, they can get the sponsors, they can get advertisement deals, and they have the capitol to kick start game projects. This is however not the case with starters. In an economic stand point of view, free games are very bad for diversity and competition. I remember testing this theory out in one of the games I played. I made a high level blacksmith in an MMO, and offered people to forge for them for free as long as they provided materials. While I became the most widely known blacksmith and the best due to many people coming to me, I decimated the industry because I made it prohibitively expensive for new players to start making blacksmiths, and they can't make any money even after they become fairly high level. Further more, other players actually prefer coming to me due to the fact I have established myself and I break less. Real economy is fairly close to that as well.

      --
      Where is the "Ignorant" mod tag?
    10. Re:Free is an option, not the future by pushing-robot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nonsense. Valve games use elegant engines, from a more civilized age.

      And they arrive precisely when they mean to.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    11. Re:Free is an option, not the future by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      don't expect to get everything for free.

      Not everything, but I do expect to get a lot free. I also expect to give a lot of stuff away for free, too.

      See the forward to Cory Doctorow's Little Brother. It's online, and free, but it still managed to sell enough copies to get on the NWT's best seller list.

      Generosity will often garner one far more than selfish will.

    12. Re:Free is an option, not the future by morghanphoenix · · Score: 1

      Yeah, like Anarcy Online's froob accounts, you're on an alien world thousands of years in the future and subjected to US Air Force advertisments and trailers for movies that would likely not have survived the test of time.

    13. Re:Free is an option, not the future by westlake · · Score: 1
      I find it very difficult to believe that you are going to have a team of 10 developers working 5 days a week, for nothing to develop a game.

      The geek sees everything as code.

      The gamer doesn't see the game engine. He sees the game world. The stage, the setting. The character he plays.

      Creative teams have to be as strong as your engineers --- even stronger, perhaps, because their contributions can't easily be recycled.

    14. Re:Free is an option, not the future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US army have a free game http://www.americasarmy.com/ payed for by US tax payers and i thought it was a great game.

    15. Re:Free is an option, not the future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not with my experience of Half Life. Jumping just before a lift gets to the ground, to avoid getting stuck forever.

  5. MMO and Open Source... LOL by Shivetya · · Score: 0

    Sorry, but your not going to get anything other than the cultist want to play.

    Or put it this way, you might get something on the order of the freespace community, nice and tight but in no way marketable let alone sustainable.

    But a MMO? Who is going to make content? Don't say everyone, because to have a consistent world someone has to set the rules. Let alone policing it would be a nightmare. Who is going to step up and fix a bug? Where there be any guarantee of service? If so who backs it?

    I can see it anywhere where the end result is not akin to a service. In other words it can be a side item to a popular series, something like a door program from bbs of days gone by, but not a mainline like EQ or such where content is presented in a cohesive and regular manner. The attention span isn't there for most developers and without the enforced system of manger/employee/etc it ain't going to get done let alone be pretty. Petty, but not pretty.

    --
    * Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
    1. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by reashlin · · Score: 1

      Of course no project could work as a huge cohesive lump whilst still being worked on by an open community that has to self regulate.

      *cough* Firefox *cough*
      *cough* Kernel *cough*
      *cough* Gnome *cough*
      *cough* etc *cough*

    2. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Enderandrew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Sims is the best selling PC game of all time, and there isn't much there in the way of content or gameplay. The users create it for themselves. Same with The Sims 2, and Spore. Then there is Second Life. So that market can work.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    3. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      The Sims is the best selling PC game of all time

      I still haven't figured out how the hell that happened. I lost interest in that game as soon as I ran out of creative ways to kill the characters. WTF is the appeal in a game that replicates the boring monotony of daily life? If I wanted to pay my bills and clean my house I wouldn't be sitting in front of the computer......

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Second Life only generates a profit (and a slim one) because their users can't do math.

      (Not a troll--I've done some programming work for people in SL, and it's a neat concept. But they're only making money on the margins, and they're poor margins.)

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    5. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Ninnle+Labs,+LLC · · Score: 1
      This isn't about making open source games. It's about putting out free games that use other sources of revenue as funding for the development and running of the game. Here, I'll even quote the very first sentence of the summary for you:

      "Is the future of gaming more or less free, perhaps funded by advertising or micropayments?

      Notice no references to open source or not paying developers or any such thing?

    6. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Leafheart · · Score: 1

      The Sims is the best selling PC game of all time, and there isn't much there in the way of content or gameplay. The users create it for themselves. Same with The Sims 2, and Spore. Then there is Second Life. So that market can work.

      It can work in a way. SL works because people can put real life money on it, and more important, extract real life money from it. SL is more kind of a framework than a game. But still has a parent company governing it.

      As for The Sims, remember that EA, specially on The Sims 2, had a big degree of control on how the game worked. The user created item and skins happened, but would sure be big, with most people waiting for the official releases.

      GP do have a point, the most successful MUDs were the one that had a lot of control over the creative process, and even when they let others produce content for it, they controlled the way it would get implemented, reserved the right to re-balance and change things.

      An open-source MMO can happen, if it is well controlled. And has a company to back it up.

      --
      --- "When you gotta do something wrong. You gotta do it right. (Fighter)"
    7. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by jcnnghm · · Score: 0, Troll

      Probably because it's one of the only games that really appeals to women. The entire game is decorating and forming relationships between characters.

      --
      You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
    8. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by geekoid · · Score: 2, Funny

      That market IS people who want to make content. It also isn't constant.

      Now add fighting monsters and quest rewards into the mix and it fails becasue it will only take 1 person to screw it up.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Ender_Stonebender · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I customize Firefox, the Linux kernel, or Gnome to make it easier for me to do things, it does not affect the experience of anyone who is using the official client without customizations. If I do the same thing for an MMO - and change it to give myself an unfair advantage, such as the ability to see through wall, rather than just to make it work better with my video card - then it will affect the experience of other players. And given that we have seen this kind of behavior in closed-source MMOs, you can bet it's going to happen in an open source one. But it will happen faster.

      --
      Loose things are easy to lose. You're getting your hair cut. They're going there to see their aunt.
    10. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      You must not be female. I had some female friends when that game was popular who were totally enthralled by it. I never met any guy who was.

    11. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      I agree entirely. Calling The Sims a game is a disgrace to the term.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    12. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      My girlfriend is a huge fan of it too.

      You'd think by the time she was 32, she'd have outgrown the damn dollhouse.

    13. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

      The same reason the Wii is the best selling console right now. The casual market is bigger than the hardcore market. My girlfriend at the time hated games, but absolutely loved The Sims.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    14. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by TheKidWho · · Score: 1

      Right because coding and art are the same thing?

    15. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      that market can work.

      I guess that's the real key... a market for the free stuff will always exist, something to do with the cost = demand/supply relationship... supply will always be > 0, and when cost approaches 0, there's some demand, somewhere on the internet.

      I played a horridly crude PBEM MMOG (Play by E-mail, one turn per week), for a few months in 1996-ish, and it was relatively entertaining due to the other players input to the game.

      The free stuff lacks polish mostly because polish doesn't feed the ego the way broad strokes do - who wants to spend 3000 hours refining 3D models of 45 character types, or even some part thereof, if they're not getting paid for it? I'd expect some neat new "broad strokes" ideas like Second Life to emerge every couple of years, and tons of half finished "I can do that too" projects.

    16. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Draek · · Score: 1

      You may as well ask why people play D&D. The Sims is, simply put, roleplaying without the stupid dwarves and magic missiles, and *that* is why it attracts so many casual (both male and female) players. It gives you an easy way to live another life, without being a dork about it.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    17. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Draek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Rule number 1 of online games: never trust the client.

      Pretty common knowledge by now, honestly.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    18. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that all the games you've mentioned aren't free. Even Second Life is based around having to buy virtual money for any real existence there beyond trolling, which is the same for most "free" games out there.

      The market of actual free games consists mainly of flash and emulations. They just don't hold a candle to the major high-quality games.

      It's possible some of the big companies could change that, but instead I suspect any of these major players' free games will be closed-source and so riddled with advertisements that you'll be convinced to pay just to stop seeing them, or not play at all.

    19. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      is the best selling PC game of all time

      I fucking HATE statements like this. It gives the impression that it is impressive to do this.

      Its not impressive. More and more gamers join the gaming community on a daily basis. We're not talking about something everyone does and has been doing since they were old enough to know what a game is.

      Games are still 'new'. I'd say most people probably have something capable of playing games of some type in there home, but if you exclude PCs from the number it drops drastically.

      All of the effort the big guys like Sony, MS, and Nintendo have been doing over the past few years to push their crappy hardware has made more people aware of the games out there.

      The Sims isn't the 'best selling game of all time' because it was good or because people liked it more than anything else. The Sims sold a lot because there are more people buying games today than ever before and its class happens to appeal to a wide audience, for about 45 minutes. Add in the fact that when you say 'The Sims' you account for about 12 different products, most of which should have been included from the start had EA not been ripping people off with crappy 'expansions' and its easy to see how those numbers are just silly and no indication of quality.

      Did you know that statistics can be used to convince 100% of the people on the planet of anything about 50% of the time? Mind you theres about a 50% margin of error on that data though.

      Its roughly like saying 'Ford has sold more cars than anyone ever'. Thats not impressive in any form, they've been around longer than anyone. Its probably not true either, but thats not the point. "best selling game of all time' is just a retarded thing to look at. I presume you also like books that are 'Best Sellers' before they even go on sale too.

      Now back to the topic at hand.

      Do you use a lot of other peoples content in your Sims games? I never did, took too much effort. User created content in spore is a joke, literally, the whole point of that part of the game is to make the most sexually frustrated life form you can and put it in the spore-pedia or whever the hell it is. No one cares about other peoples content so it should hardly be considered. The only reason the user content is important is because EA figured out they could save themselves the effort of having a design staff to make the creatures by just having the developers make the design tools part of the game itself. They just cut out months of design work by SELLING idiots the tools to create creatures.

      And then there is second life, which you seem to think is an example of making it work, and I typically think of it as a prime example of how 'free' games utterly and completely fail. Fortunately for second life it isn't really a game so much as an escape for people unable to cope with the real world.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    20. Re:MMO and Open Source... LOL by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

      The Sims was released 9 years ago. By your logic, newer games should surpass it, since The Sims only sold well for being a recent game. What about all the other games released in 2000, or since then?

      Half-Life is the best selling FPS of all time. Not Half-Life 2, and not Doom 3, or Quake 3, or Halo 3. You're supposed logic doesn't hold up. And while FPS games are normally the biggest genre, and best sellers, Half-Life sold 9 million copies. The Sims sold 16 million copies. It destroyed the competition. And between expansions and the sequel, The Sims have shipped over 100 million copies.

      Frankly, anyone who dismisses that is an idiot.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  6. Why should they? by Trojan35 · · Score: 1

    I don't see it. I still see a lot of value in games worth me spending money for a high-production value game. On the other hand, I don't think I'd be willing to put up with as much advertising as would be necessary to offset what I'm willing to pay WITHOUT ads.

    That said, variable game pricing needs to happen. I should be able to buy the *new* physical copy for $60 or a digital copy for $30 (no resale) or digitally rent it for a week for $5. The game publishers don't make much on me buying used games or renting from blockbuster. I'd rather see more of my money go to the publishers/developers than to the middle-men who currently have a pretty over-priced service.

  7. A false dichotomy. by pushing-robot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Free games from independent developers won't "replace" current games any more than YouTube "replaced" Hollywood.

    My amazing prediction is that in the future, people will indeed get a lot of entertainment from free and/or indie games, but at times they'll want the high-budget spectacle that only a major studio can provide.

    (And by the way... If you think micropayments are the same as "free", you must think a credit card is some kind of magical money tree.)

    --
    How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    1. Re:A false dichotomy. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Of course it's a magical money tree, just look at what all the top economists where saying 2 years ago. Nothing bad came out of that, right?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:A false dichotomy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (And by the way... If you think micropayments are the same as "free", you must think a credit card is some kind of magical money tree.)

      Hence the success of nickel-and-diming us to death. It's not a *real* payment, it's too small.

    3. Re:A false dichotomy. by mr_gorkajuice · · Score: 1

      My amazing prediction is that in the future, people will indeed get a lot of entertainment from free and/or indie games, but at times they'll want the high-budget spectacle that only a major studio can provide.

      Kinda like present time?

  8. Planeshift by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

    Isn't Planeshift completely free? I've always wondered how good the game is. The screenshots look decent. The engine is GPL. There are no upgrades or micropayments. The game is just 100% free. I keep getting tempted to install it (especially since they have native Linux clients, including 64-bit clients) except I try to avoid most MMOs on principle.

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    1. Re:Planeshift by Jogar+the+Barbarian · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't say you're missing anything. I've installed and run it three times over the past couple years, and while the team has made progress, it's still very much pre-pre-pre-alpha status. Get it if you're interesting in becoming a contributor... otherwise play Perfect World.

      --
      3. Profit!
      2. ???
      1. On Soviet Slashdot, a Beowulf cluster of alien Natalie Portman overlords welcomes YOU!
  9. Gaming or Game Revenue Generation? by Wormsign · · Score: 1

    They are 2 very different things. I think advertising to support games, other than flash game websites, is just going to cause more annoyance to the player. I don't know about you, but ads in places where I can't filter them out, such as movie theaters before the feature or before games load really piss me off and, in fact, make me not want to buy that advertiser's product. I can tune out banner ads. Or, I can click on them if it is something I am interested in (rare). If many commercial games go this route, they might find themselves out in the cold when their advertisers decide they don't make enough from the money spent on game ads and pull their sponsorship, similar to the dot com advertising bust. People have to actually buy the advertiser's products to make it viable. Funding with advertising is like the lesson some industries refuse to learn from.

    1. Re:Gaming or Game Revenue Generation? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      How about "product placement?" When the guy in the movie opens that can of Bud or lights up that Marlboro, guess what? Bud and Marlboro pay to get theose products in the movies. I don't mind it a bit, it makes the movie more realistic. When someone opens a can of Regal Warrior beer, it spoils the immersion.

  10. If a game is good it's worth money to me... by VinylRecords · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd pay $500 at the very least for a copy of Virtua Fighter 5R or a sequel to Chrono Trigger.

    Starcraft, Unreal Tournament, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Super Turbo, Virtua Fighter. These games and series I've gotten thousands upon thousands of hours playing single-player or with others either locally or online. The measly $20-$60 I paid for those games has been overly worth it if you consider how many hours I got worth of entertainment out of those. I might spend $15 on a movie (NYC prices) at the theater and never see it again. My copy of Final Fantasy X was $55 new the day it came out and I've played 500 hours beating the game multiple times and writing an extended FAQ for it.

    But for shorter games, or multi-player games with little variety that get very boring quickly, the cost of paying full price for them is just simply not worth it. I'll use Dead Space as an example. I was sold on the hype of the game, and paid $60 in full for a console version of the game. After the first playthrough, through extremely exciting, I new I wouldn't return to play the game probably ever again. So for one playthrough was $60 worth it? Probably not. I could have rented it and then returned it after beating it in two or three days.

    But for Virtua Fighter 5? I specifically purchased an X-box 360 and multiple arcade sticks for the game, grand total let's say $1,000 between XBL gold over the years, 360 and accessories, and the game and DLC. But was it worth it? For me absolutely. I play the game for hours upon hours every week. I have people over to my house, I've even flown to other countries to play the game against international players which brings the grand total to even more (yikes).

    How about Starcraft II? There are some people (including myself) who have been waiting for Starcraft II for a decade. When Starcraft: Ghost was canceled, part of my soul died. But now with SCII right around the corner, I'll be building an adequate gaming rig to play the game. Let's say that with the monitor and speakers the total cost to play SCII is $1,500. Worth it? For me, absolutely without question. After playing SC:BW and WCIII:TFT for years I am fully confident that Blizzard will deliver a long lasting and timeless RTS for the community to play for years. Also I'm sure my rig will get loads of Diablo III in it as well.

    Lastly I'd rather pay for game than have it for free but chalked full of advertisements. I don't want to see any advertisements in-game in a respectable series like Virtua Fighter or Starcarft.

    My point is that if you get hundreds or thousands of hours out of game it's easily worth the entrance fee of $60 if not way more than that. If you play a game for a couple of hours and then it's over...probably needs to cost less at retail. I always found it annoying that a game designed to be played in under ten hours was the same retail price as something designed to have unlimited replay value or extensive multi-player.

    1. Re:If a game is good it's worth money to me... by dark42 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'd pay $500 at the very least for a copy of Virtua Fighter 5R or a sequel to Chrono Trigger.

      So, will you buy Chrono Cross from me for $500?

    2. Re:If a game is good it's worth money to me... by runyonave · · Score: 1

      I'll sell mines for $495, hows that sound?

    3. Re:If a game is good it's worth money to me... by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      Chrono Cross is not a sequel to Chrono Trigger. It's a game that starts with Chrono and has a few loose ties to the original, that's it. I'm not saying anything about the quality of the game, it's fine, but I hardly consider it a sequel.

    4. Re:If a game is good it's worth money to me... by matang · · Score: 1

      the problem is that for your $60 and thousands of hours, you've got my $60 and a few hours here and there. how do you translate that to a final price? i'd rather pay $60 for a "ten hour" game than $60 plus a monthly fee for a "thousand hour game", not to get off the point - it's a function of how much you value the thing vs the value of other things blah blah. it's why, although i'm sure world of warcraft is a great game, there's no way i'd justify spending the money on it plus the monthly fee when i'm only going to play it five hours a month. plus the inherent marriage you enter into with a game that you play against other people (if they play while you don't, they get better, gain experience, etc while you don't). different (sword) strokes for different folks i guess.

    5. Re:If a game is good it's worth money to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You play way too many games. Maybe you should get a job, a girlfriend or do more homework.

    6. Re:If a game is good it's worth money to me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming you've purchased a physical copy (or are otherwise not locked down to your hardware/account), you can also factor resale value into your gaming purchase. I can get back 50 to 100% of the cost of a game through auction sites.

      Not possible with a trip to the movies.

    7. Re:If a game is good it's worth money to me... by lgbr · · Score: 1

      Starcraft, Unreal Tournament, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Super Turbo, Virtua Fighter. These games and series I've gotten thousands upon thousands of hours playing single-player or with others either locally or online. The measly $20-$60 I paid for those games has been overly worth it if you consider how many hours I got worth of entertainment out of those. I might spend $15 on a movie (NYC prices) at the theater and never see it again. My copy of Final Fantasy X was $55 new the day it came out and I've played 500 hours beating the game multiple times and writing an extended FAQ for it.

      I've gotten thousands upon thousands of hours of enjoyment out of my girlfriend and yet I didn't pay a dime for her. If I had to pay $50 for her that would be a worthwhile trade.

      However, just because I can pay $50 for a huge amount of entertainment doesn't mean I should.

  11. Free games are like politicians by Ontheotherhand · · Score: 1

    Generally, they pander to the lowest common denomintor. I should imagine free games would be a race to the bottom, yeehah!

    1. Re:Free games are like politicians by Steauengeglase · · Score: 1

      If anyone is going to be blamed for racing to the bottom it should be commercial developers, not "cultist" open source game hobbyist.

      I've played plenty of single player mods back in the HL1 days that were polished and wildly inventive and the developer's highest goal was getting recognition. The trick here is this, artists and designers need the tools to make the game they want. Valve made a ton of tools that were easy to use and gave them a cheap platform to develop for. This is what is seriously lacking, easy to use tools (sorry Blender needs a lot of work in that area, Gimp is alright and more suited as far as scripts are concerned, normal mapping, etc.) and an easily scripted game environment to work with.

    2. Re:Free games are like politicians by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Generally, they pander to the lowest common denominator. I should imagine free games would be a race to the bottom, yeehah!

      Clearly you weren't alive back in the heyday of the adventure game. Where there were free or cheap tools to create great games, graphics didn't matter so much because computers weren't capable of too much (we had 16 colours and we were grateful). Lots of freeware and shareware adventure games came out around the end of this time, most of them were good because they had great stories, there was a bit of crap but they were easy to sort through.

      Adventure gaming like that died shortly after doom was released for two reasons, 1. advancement in graphics engines/hardware (full 16 bit rendering) 2. rise of the game publishers. so in short a large free ware community didn't result in a race to the bottom, a large OSS community will not either. If what you belive was true, why is there a good modding community? Besides as long as an OSS game engine can be separated from the games art assets, you should be able to produce sellable games with OSS engines, so long as you provide the engine source code for free (art assets and game specific configs can be sold as propriety).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:Free games are like politicians by Ontheotherhand · · Score: 1

      I dunno about clearly being alive back then, but I was there. I played ZX81 adventure games with deep joy. The race to the bottom that I alluded to is not of open source, but rather proprietary companies, trying to appeal to the largest number of people, as quickly as possible. I realise the following example is not directly appropriate, but it does illustrate my concerns. (no, it not a car analogy). I bought Gears of war 2 without demoing, cos it sounded great. I played thru on hard in 4 hours or so. I am a crap player. What has happened? I speak to youngsters who love the game, and they played through even quicker. Clearly (did you see what i just did there? ;) the developers did not want to take the risk of frustrating the players for even a minute. I still have not completed Time Splitters (PS2) on hard, but rate it as an all time great. But I dont see this happening in the future. who would dare baulk the hyperactive nil deferal of pleasure generation with anything as difficult as a real challenge? I ramble in sadness....

  12. Free is OK and everything, but... by pzs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sometimes, you need a professional touch on these things. That costs money, just as many of the professional touches in Linux have cost money.

    A few years ago, I played and really enjoyed the Freespace 2. I enjoyed it so much, I thought I would try some of the free contributed content from enthusiastic fans. I played the campaign that was generally rated as the best and it was good fun, but there was a huge gulf in quality from the professionally produced content. The amateur stuff was laden with fan-boy excitement - the mission descriptions were far too long and the in game dialog chattered on and on. This was particularly tedious when you had to replay missions and listen to it over and over again. Also, the voice acting was incredibly hammy and it was so obvious that it had been recorded in geeks bedrooms.

    These guys were doing their best, but they are not writers or actors. Maybe other projects are better at recruiting these kinds of people to work for free, but I suspect the overenthusiastic geek effect is probably quite difficult to mitigate.

    1. Re:Free is OK and everything, but... by fprintf · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I played a lot of the Portal add-ons, which are available for free, and they are quite variable in quality. However there is one that is something like 47 levels of goodness and is every bit as professional as the original game. It is based on Flash Portal (can't link to it from work now anyway).

      So this is my one data point that freely available content, developed using a robust structure, can be just as good as the commercial stuff. My only investment was $20 for Portal and a few cents downloading the add-on.

      --
      This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
    2. Re:Free is OK and everything, but... by broken_chaos · · Score: 1

      Neverwinter Nights modules. Some of the best "free games" I've ever encountered. Pay $20 for the Diamond edition (NWN + both expansions), and you have far beyond $20 of content available. Some of the modules are even more in-depth and polished than the official campaigns (though they don't often have much, if any, voice acting).

      And that's not even counting some of the stunning player-run persistent worlds, which have some incredible GM/player interaction.

    3. Re:Free is OK and everything, but... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      These guys were doing their best

      I doubt that... I imagine they were slapping it together in their free time, just trying to get something reasonably complete, rather than refining the ideas in committee for a year before executing to the highest possible standards.

      The tools are getting better, and easier to use, and cheaper, but the thought processes required to tell an interesting story succinctly and entertainingly still cost time and effort, even if you're a pro.

    4. Re:Free is OK and everything, but... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Speaking of free space sims - try "Babylon 5: I've Found Her". It's not very well known, perhaps because it's a Windows-only game, and it's only free as in beer - not open sourced, the development team itself is (or rather, was) closed, and in general the way they developed it was much closer to how commercial game shops work than your average FLOSS project. End result is surprisingly good and professional, in my opinion.

  13. Not Greed by StevenMaurer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Definitely no. But Greed and Ambition have nothing to do with it.

    As a customer, I want a game that just works. Not a game with five dozen incompatible interfaces, two half broken configuration interfaces, inscrutable documentation written by an engineer who never took a writing class in his entire six years in college, untalented artwork, and random crashes justified by the credo "if you don't like it, dig through 100,000 lines of poorly commented code to fix it yourself".

    For the non open-source "free" games, I want a game I can play, not one that's a one screen flash-animation that's really just an add for whatever is the latest kid-fluff being pushed on Nickelodeon.

    As a customer, I want my GTA, Oblivion, Project Gotham, and a dozen other high quality games that could only be developed by paying real programmers, artists, and writers real money to work on them. So I am perfectly willing to shell out real money to pay for them to do so.

    In fact, given the price of a couple of movie tickets and a family night out, I figure video games are still the best dollar per hour entertainment value out there.

    1. Re:Not Greed by Draek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As a customer, I want a game that just works. Not a game with five dozen incompatible interfaces, two half broken configuration interfaces, inscrutable documentation written by an engineer who never took a writing class in his entire six years in college, untalented artwork, and random crashes justified by the credo "if you don't like it, dig through 100,000 lines of poorly commented code to fix it yourself".

      Wesnoth has none of that, and neither does Warsow. There's probably others though, they're just the two I've been playing the most lately.

      For the non open-source "free" games, I want a game I can play, not one that's a one screen flash-animation that's really just an add for whatever is the latest kid-fluff being pushed on Nickelodeon.

      So, you haven't researched the freeware gaming scene either, have you? if all you know is whatever flash-based crap Nickelodeon et al push on their webpages, then I'm sorry for you, but they're *not* the only, the best, or even representative of the average game that's available for free.

      As a customer, I want my GTA, Oblivion, Project Gotham, and a dozen other high quality games that could only be developed by paying real programmers, artists, and writers real money to work on them. So I am perfectly willing to shell out real money to pay for them to do so.

      Didn't you just say that you wanted something that "just works"? because neither GTA4 nor Oblivion fit that definition, haven't played Project Gotham either but it wouldn't surprise me if it did as well.

      Seriously, I support commercial games too, but your arguments are shit. Do your research, see the true jewels of Free, free and commercial gaming, then come back and see what you think.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    2. Re:Not Greed by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Do your research, see the true jewels of Free, free and commercial gaming, then come back and see what you think.

      I'm not GP, but I did see all the hyped FLOSS games. What do I think? Compared to the cream of the crop of the traditional commercial game industry, the free offerings plainly suck in one or more ways. Almost always, quality of the game art (textures, models, sounds) is a killer, but generally bad game design is not uncommon, either.

      And don't give me that line about how "it's fun that matters, not graphics". I'm an old-time gamer as well, and I do still play Doom2, Daggerfall and Fallout. But for their time, their graphics was decent if not cutting edge, and it's no excuse to release that kind of stuff today. Gameplay matters. Visuals also matter.

    3. Re:Not Greed by mr_gorkajuice · · Score: 1

      So, you haven't researched the freeware gaming scene either, have you? if all you know is whatever flash-based crap Nickelodeon et al push on their webpages, then I'm sorry for you, but they're *not* the only, the best, or even representative of the average game that's available for free.

      Dude, we're talking about random entertainment. Research? I don't want to do research to find games.
      A great quality of commercial games: they'll make me aware of their existance, instead of simply existing quietly, waiting for me to discover them.
      Name a game that was never commercial that we've all heard of.

  14. History repeats itself by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Informative

    id Software... offering some form of free gaming.

    Wolfenstien 3-D? Doom? Duke Nukem (2D side scroller, Apogee and Id were once the same bunch of guys)

    Surely you guys remember "shareware?" Free is what made Id the powerhouse it eventually became.

    1. Re:History repeats itself by westlake · · Score: 1
      Surely you guys remember "shareware?" Free is what made Id the powerhouse it eventually became.

      The demo was free. The game cost $50.

    2. Re:History repeats itself by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I paid $30 for Duke Nukem, IIRC that's what I paid for Wolfenstein. With most shareware, the "demo" was actually the first 1/3 of the game. I played those first nine levels of DOOM for a long time before I registered.

  15. BAD ANALOGY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I spend 3 years designing and building a house from scratch, which I subsequently sell on. Some local obnoxious engineer photocopies my drawings and blueprints and uses them to create 10 houses exactly the same across the road, which he sells at a much lower price. When I try to stop him using the drawings he phones the cops, bitches and moans about his "rights" and repeats the line "IT ISN'T THEFT" at the top of his voice, and mails copies to everyone he knows. He claims that because I didn't give the owners of the house the raw bricks and mortar to do what they wanted with, I was restricting the way in which the property could be used, and therefore he made my drawings available to anyone that wanted to see them out of spite. Is the future of architecture to be carried out for no financial reward? Unlikely.

  16. Been there done that by sunking2 · · Score: 1

    How many of you play muds anymore? Time to build the castle in the swamp again I guess.

    1. Re:Been there done that by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      How many of you play muds anymore?

      I do.

      Time to build the castle in the swamp again I guess.

      I've played MUDs, MUCKs for years but I have no idea what you are referring to. :(

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    2. Re:Been there done that by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      How many of you play muds anymore?

      I do.

      Time to build the castle in the swamp again I guess.

      I've played MUDs, MUCKs for years but I have no idea what you are referring to. :(

      My guess is that it's a reference to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

      King of Swamp Castle: When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp.

      In other words: "Been there, done that, failed miserably."

      But, a glimmer of careful optimism, perhaps? The quote finishes

      But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England.

  17. Free Games & Quality by Mo0o · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While a lot of things free can be exceptional, free games will never be the best. A lot of the times the 'monthly prescriptions' you pay to play an MMO is never really the money-maker for the company; it's all of the essentials either needed to play the game or the 'gift shop' items you can purchase from the game or even the conventions you hold and use the game as advertisement to get more people to show up. Really, games are just another form of active-marketing; get the customers involved and hooked into a business and make them become loyal. I also find it rather interesting that pay-to-play games are highly addictive because most of us who are not hard-core gamers are thinking "Well, I am paying for the game, I might as well make my money go to good use and play the game".

  18. Captain Obvious Returns by senorpoco · · Score: 1

    "developers and publishers are experimenting with cheaper pricing, and the results so far seem positive" People prefer to pay less for games. In other news a one legged man lost an ass kicking contest. More details at eight.

  19. Nadeo by BloodyIron · · Score: 1

    If you want to talk "Free" games, check out Trackmania Nations.

    Nadeo worked with ESWC, nVidia and other groups to release a free version of their series. Trackmania the series, Nations the free version. It's done wonders for their uptake.

    It's also a fantastic series.

  20. Some players don't want "free". by DdJ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Some players actively avoid free games, particularly for MMOs.

    I know players who want to make sure that everyone around them has at least something invested in the game world. They want some barrier to keep out dabblers, people whose commitment to the game is below a certain point, overly casual players. For big, shared worlds, when there's a lot you can't do solo, when you're forced to team up with people, there's something to the idea of ensuring that the people you're teaming up with take things at least little seriously.

    And thus, the population of people who consider "free" to be a signal to stay far, far away from an online multiplayer game.

    Honestly, I think this is one of the reasons some people honestly prefer the XBox Live network gaming model to the PS3 one.

    1. Re:Some players don't want "free". by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Why would someone give a damn if another player is just a casual player?

      Cost ahs nothing to do with it. Good luck getting 10 random people in WoW together and not have one of them not taking it seriously.
      hmm, that last sentence could be better.

      I ahve played Pay and free, and I really haven't noticed a different between how people behave.

      However, I ahve noticed a difference when you take size into account. New games tend to ahve a lot few assholes, regardless of the monthly cost.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Some players don't want "free". by Vohar · · Score: 1

      I think Guild Wars is a good example of the GP's comment on 'free' game communities. Guild Wars doesn't have a monthly fee, so chat channels are full of kids who didn't need to ask parents for credit cards. I ended up just hiding my chat window completely and pretended it was a single-player game.

      As someone who has played at least a dozen MMOs, I have to say the difference in communities is noticeable when you're looking at free and fee games.

    3. Re:Some players don't want "free". by wrook · · Score: 1

      Some players actively avoid free games, particularly for MMOs.

      I can understand this. And especially for MMOs, I think there is some good justification for this. Personally, I would rather be a paying customer of the MMO so that the providers are focused on giving me the experience I want. If I'm relying on advertising to pay the bill, then I'm not going to be the primary customer -- I'll have to compromise on my experience to some degree.

      But I think it's important to understand that there is no reason that a for-pay MMO can't be written as free software, and even with free assets. The *service* of customizing the game experience for your customers is worth money. Also, the customer service of hosting the game and ensuring that customers get good performance is worth money.

      This is one of the things I don't like about WoW. Their business model is still tied around selling content. If I'm paying them $15 a month, why do I have to pay another $30 every year or two for an "expansion upgrade". Why not bloody roll it all in together and charge me $18 a month? In fact, I suspect that the cost of maintining the various levels of service costs them as much as they make from the expansions. Also, they regard customer service as a "cost center" not a "revenue center". Those of us who play from Asia with 500 ms latency would happily pay another couple of bucks for a server on this side of the Pacific... :-P

      So, I am definitely willing to pay money for an MMO experience. But I still would rather that they made the game and assets free. As a customer, this focuses their attention on retaining my custom through good service, not the artificial scarcity of their content.

    4. Re:Some players don't want "free". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some players

      I know players

      the population of people

      some people

      I take it you really mean "I".

  21. Blizzard... again.... by grumpyman · · Score: 1

    Wow proves that people are willing to pay as long as the product is what they wanted. Like the folks above, I've played SC and WC3 in different spans of 6-7 years each. I keep bragging about the price/entertainment-value I got: $70 (with expansions back then) for 6 years. Even with just average of 10 minutes a day, it comes down to about 20 cents per hour (excluding utilities).

    1. Re:Blizzard... again.... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Anecdotal, but I for one would have never played WoW had I not been a serious Warcraft II junkie back in the day. (played III, but didn't like the identity crisis of RTS versus RPG). WoW would probably have little appeal to me had I not been engrossed in the rich Warcraft story line that preceded it.

  22. New Idea for Micropayments by avandesande · · Score: 1

    You could house the hardware in a large single unit box and provide a slot to put coins in! You would let someone play until they have had a set number of characters expire- if they want to continue playing they can put more money into the slot to get more 'lives'

    Should I patent this idea?

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  23. Because people don't pay $60 for indie products by olddotter · · Score: 1

    Indie developers pursue this because its hard to get people to spend $50 or even $25 for a game they haven't read a review of, from someone or some company they never heard of before. Low prices (or free with another revenue stream) allow the game to go viral.

    To me the last gaming revolution occurred 12 years ago in the form of shareware games. You see the evolution of that today on the iPhone app store with $5 (expensive games) that have free or $0.99 "Lite" counter parts. I expect various similar approaches my take off across all gaming platforms.

    I am shocked that Google doesn't have a special type of adsense ad for in game use for casual games on the web or mobile platforms (read iPhone or Android).

    1. Re:Because people don't pay $60 for indie products by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      To me the last gaming revolution occurred 12 years ago in the form of shareware games

      Dude, in 1997 shareware games had been around for at least ten years. IIRC the first Wolfenstien came out about 1988 or so, and it wasn't the first shareware game by far.

    2. Re:Because people don't pay $60 for indie products by olddotter · · Score: 1

      I don't mean that shareware occurred 12 years ago. But that the revolution in games 12 years ago came from shareware companies, not the mainstream companies of the time.

  24. rocket science by xaoslaad · · Score: 1

    rocket scientists... all of them... it only took them from the inception of gaming to realize their prices are assinine...

    http://www.joystiq.com/2009/02/20/steams-left-4-dead-sale-increased-purchase-infection-by-3000/ 50% off 3000% increase in sales...

    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/03/ut3-steam-sale-extended-due-to-2000-play-increase.ars 40% off 2000% percent increase in sales

  25. From my experience... by CyberData4 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I work for (I guess I should say DID work for as I'm on my two week notice...job laid off half of us last week) a small game company that makes free to play games for the PC. We have a loyal following but not NEARLY enough to entice advertisers in this economy into spending money for ads in our games. We don't use the most recent engines. But we use a very stable and powerful one for what we do. And lemme just say that free gaming, while possible will never have the quality of a large budget console or pc game. Just not enough money to pay enough programmers/artists/testers...etc.

  26. Not Games. by Ostracus · · Score: 1

    "In fact, given the price of a couple of movie tickets and a family night out, I figure video games are still the best dollar per hour entertainment value out there."

    World of Goo
    Mirror's Edge
    Fallout 3
    F.E.A.R. 2
    GTA IV
    Crysis/Crysis: Warhead.

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
  27. Going the way of cable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What will happen is it will become like cable tv. Where you pay through the nose for the game and STILL have to view advertisement after advertisement.

  28. All I Play Are Free Games by daigu · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    It started when I reformatted my drive and started using Linux exclusively and gave up TV about 10 years ago. Up until then, I used to buy games and had game consoles around. I last remember playing Metal Gear Solid like a man obsessed and getting a sound beating or two playing Starcraft online.

    On Linux, there were plenty of games - GNU Chess, Same Gnome and so forth. There was no buying any games for Linux at that time, so I learned to like these games a lot. I imagine people must have had a similar experience with Microsoft's Solitaire.

    When I got married, my wife needed a Windows machine to access work applications, so we had a Windows machine and I could purchase games again if I were inclined. But, it just didn't occur to me to buy games anymore. I found free games to be more interesting in some respects because they didn't have money for graphics, so they focused more on other things. This isn't knocking professionally created games. In my experience they're great, I just wasn't looking for them at this point.

    I tried playing games that won The Interactive Fiction Competition because I remember playing Zork back when I was young. I couldn't get into text adventures anymore, but I think it is worth exploring.

    I had played Civilization before too. So, I tried freeciv, which led to other free turn-based games like Battle for Wesnoth and even returning to older games like Nethack.

    I then went on to try independent games that you had to pay a small amount for, like those made by Positech.

    I also tried Second Life and similar and found them to be glorified IRC chat rooms.

    I'm getting into this history because I think it raises an interesting question. Why would anyone buy Halo III when they have never played the the first one? Particularly, if someone can buy the earlier editions for a fraction of their original cost now, and they would likely enjoy them as much as most people did the first time they played them, why not start there?

    You may not be as extreme an example as I am, but I bet there are older games, free games or low-priced independent games that you have never played and would like. So, why are you buying the newest WOW expansion set (and paying the subscription fees) or HALO 3 - as soon as it comes out? Is it that you are so involved in these games? I can understand that because the one game I have purchased was Sid Meyer's Pirates - again, partially because I had played it before and liked it a lot. But, I don't want to assume that is true of everyone.

    What about a new game? It's one thing to get the new Grand Theft Auto. It's another to get a totally new game. How do you decide to go with something just released - rather than buy something older that you haven't played before? Is it about having the newest and greatest in graphical features? What's the appeal?

    Maybe you are such a hard core gamer that you've played most new games. But given the amount of time they require - is this really so? Maybe it is playing with friends, a la Quake. Maybe it's checking the review on Gamespot or Slashdot. Since I don't play them, I don't know. So was wondering if someone can offer a clue.

    I guess part of my question is that I am looking at new things to try. I know there are a lot of good games out there that I haven't played. So, why would I be interested in these new models of game production or even new games? What do you suggest? What games do you think everyone should know? Is there a great game out there that you think most gamers have missed?

    For example, I remember reading about one game in Slashdot where you are a pencil or something and you role around and things stick to you - something from Japan. I've also heard someone that taught fo

    1. Re:All I Play Are Free Games by Vohar · · Score: 1

      You essentially removed yourself from the mainstream game culture, and now you're wondering why people buy the new stuff when there's so much that -you- haven't played.

      You mention that you gave up TV 10 years ago, as well. Why would anyone watch new shows when there are older shows out there? Why watch the new Battlestar Galactica when you can just get a dvd of Buck Rogers, right?

      The new content is of interest to people who haven't skipped the past decade or two. With sequels, people might buy them right away because they liked the previous one and are looking forward to the new plot or new features. If you never played Halo 1 or 2 yeah, you probably won't be eagerly awaiting part 3. But there were plenty of people who were.

      The answer to all your questions is really that it's a matter of your own perspective.

    2. Re:All I Play Are Free Games by daigu · · Score: 1

      True enough. I am removed from mainstream game culture. But, I also pointed out a few kinds of games that I know most mainstream players have never tried. Presumably, there are a lot of games out there that even mainstream players don't know about.

      And then when you talk about a new TV series like Battlestar Galactica, there are reasons to watch it. It explores modern ethical issues. It's more realistic. Whatever. Why it is a better recommendation than say another in the genre like Farscape or even other shows like Arrested Development? When you start looking over a decade, there are a lot of great shows that might be worth watching - that even regular TV watchers never saw.

      Same can be said of music, film or any other cultural endeavor. If I said, "Hey, I spent the last 10 years listening to electronic music, what did I miss in country?" A country music fan would talk about all the great music that came out that they liked.

      But interestingly enough, that doesn't seem to happen with games. The assumption is that gamers know all the games - despite the fact that there are many games, many platforms and few can afford (in time or money) to know them all. And in an age of Everquest, WoW and other games that require a lot of time, I'm willing to bet that my situation isn't even all that uncommon among mainstream gamers.

      If you never played Halo 1 or 2 yeah, you probably won't be eagerly awaiting part 3. But there were plenty of people who were.

      Again, I have no doubt this was true. If I was set-up for it, I would have bought new versions of Metal Gear Solid as soon as they came out. But, I'm left wondering what happens to those people that come in, mid-stream.

      Anyway, this is just my thinking out loud. I don't have the time for most games these days, so I probably should just focus on those that meet certain requirements, turn-based or whatever.

      Thanks for the feedback. I know it was a bit odd - or offtopic, and appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

  29. Free Woopee. by Ostracus · · Score: 1

    [Free] is the future of everything

    Including sex.

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
  30. Flip side as well by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 1

    You are willing to shell out serious bucks to play the latest and greatest games in the best settings possible - so yeah you're willing to pop $500 for a really good game, above and beyond the standard $60 release. Heck, game companies should consider that there is indeed a market for narrow-release, high-dollar games (just like any other luxury goods category).

    I'm not a hardcore gamer. I'm not gonna drop even $60 on a game. Content with good games of the past, I'm happily working thru a $5 used copy of Max Payne, and have a $3 copy of Oni in queue. Not exactly free, but close enough considering the relatively high satisfaction I get from each. My PSP + Daxter were free by using a Sony credit card enough. Not the latest, not the greatest, but [shrug] they're just games.

    Free is not the future of gaming. Continuation of supply-and-demand is the future of gaming. Those wanting the best/latest will pay dearly for it. Those wanting to spend little can buy used or legacy copies. Those wanting to grab eyeballs for advertising will pay accordingly to support "free" games. Those wanting to get otherwise unlikely players hooked will use the "shareware" model. Those who compulsively write such software may go OSS if they can't get hired to do so. Supply-and-demand will find a way.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
  31. what you don't understand is by fuzzylollipop · · Score: 2, Insightful

    coding is the least part of a game. creating all the graphics, animations, sounds, textures, models and what not are what makes a world. And you need consistent quality for a cohesive vision of a world, and that usually takes someone working for money, most artists don't want to work for free and take direction from someone they don't know. Where as getting people to write code for free is much easier. The "creative" side is about 80% of the effort for a AAA title.

  32. In-game advertising. by maillemaker · · Score: 1

    From the first time I saw the ability to spray-paint "graffiti" on walls in Team Fortress Classic, I wondered when we would see in-game advertising in the virtual world the game created.

    When I played later games of Half Life and saw soda and vending machines in the virtual world, I wondered why those virtual vending machines did not have real-life logos on them, and why money did not change hands to make it happen.

    How many millions upon millions of people are in virtual gaming worlds every day? Why not have virtual product placement or advertisement in these games? I don't think it would have to detract from the gaming experience at all. In fact, it could add to the realism.

    I should patent this idea and be rich. :)

    --
    A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
    1. Re:In-game advertising. by edremy · · Score: 1
      Googling "virtual advertising in games patent" seems to come up with more than a few hits, so methinks your dreams of riches might be a bit late.

      In all seriousness, this will work but only for some things. TF, Counterstrike or something like that? Sure, Coke machines on every corner. EVE? Well, maybe you could have ships towing "Eat at Joe's" banners or something.

      Lord of the Rings Online? Umm, ya. Not quite sure what you're going to be able to advertise there. I don't think "Uncle Gandalf's Gold Ring Polish" is going to sell in the real world, and the players are going to revolt if they see Legolas downing a Coke(TM). I think I can assume that LOTRO and most every other fantasy game is going to be ad-free.

      --
      "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
    2. Re:In-game advertising. by pushing-robot · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mostly because getting rights is a PITA. Think of each product as an actor, and the parent corporation as their overzealous agent.

      Say you're a game developer with a brilliant vision, and you think it would be realistic to put a Coca-Cola logo on the side of some vending machines. Now you might think "Hey, Coca-Cola would love that! I'll contact them and see if they'll pay me to put their logo in as I see fit!"

      Not exactly. Some guy at Coca-Cola's marketing department contacts you back and says "All right, but we have to approve of every placement. Show us where you plan on using the logo.

      And you talk to your modelers and level designers and figure out everywhere in the game you'd put a Coca-Cola logo.

      And you talk to Coca-Cola again. They look at the nice pictures you made, then point to a picture of a wrecked Coke machine in a bombed-out building and say "This just won't do. See how the machine is all broken and scratched? The lights aren't even on. Replace it with a new machine in working order."

      And they point to another picture and say "Here you've got a Coke machine in the enemy headquarters. We don't want that. Make all the good guys visibly drink Coca-Cola products, and make all the bad guys visibly drink some generic product."

      And then they tell you "Hey, we've been thinking. Gameplay is 'where it's at'. We'll pay you a tidy sum if you make the player drink Coca-Cola products to restore his health. And have the player hunt for Power-Ade bottles for an extra 'Boost'! It could add a whole new mechanic to your game!"

      And you go back and forth with Coca-Cola until you finally say "This is going nowhere! I don't want to turn my game into a Coca-Cola commercial! Can you just give me permission to put the logo in my game according to my artistic vision? I don't care about the money any more!"

      And they reply "Sorry, unless you intend to portray our brand in a positive light we won't give you any rights to it."

      And you're back at square one, albeit a bit wiser. The next day, you ask the art lead "Hey, can you come up with a nice generic soft drink company logo?"

      Hollywood has been banging against this problem for decades. Companies won't pay for just any instance of their product on screen, or relinquish their rights merely for the sake of "Realism". If you want their logo, you have to play by their rules. That's why ninety-nine out of a hundred items seen on film are still "genericized", and the few that are branded are usually quite conspicuous.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
  33. Ads are an option, not the future by Ostracus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Ad revenue sponsored gaming has real potential. In the same way TV advertising works - so could in game. It just has to be VERY carefully done so as not to alienate the players. "

    Those who suggest ads, really mean, "Someone else foots the bill". Problem is, what do you do when everyone wants everyone else to "foot the bill"?

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
    1. Re:Ads are an option, not the future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you fucking retard, they mean ad sponsored gaming. It means they are willing to look at ads for a company's products in exchange for playing a game. Not unlike how some are willing to look at ads for a company's products in exchange for watching television programs, or listening to ads for a company's products in exchange for listening to a radio broadcast.

    2. Re:Ads are an option, not the future by Draek · · Score: 1

      Those who suggest ads, really mean, "Someone else foots the bill". Problem is, what do you do when everyone wants everyone else to "foot the bill"?

      Same thing that happens when everyone wants everyone else to "foot the bill" for TV programs: ads are pulled, companies lose mindshare, are forgotten and eventually go bankrupt, other companies not too cheap to spend on advertising are born, grow, and everybody is happy again.

      --
      No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
    3. Re:Ads are an option, not the future by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      Those who suggest ads, really mean, "Someone else foots the bill". Problem is, what do you do when everyone wants everyone else to "foot the bill"?

      You elect Obama! What else?

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
  34. MapleStory by ArhcAngel · · Score: 1

    I started playing MapleStory last year but my son has been playing for several.
      "MapleStory is a free-of-charge, 2D, side-scrolling massively multiplayer online role-playing game".
    It's free to play but there are shops everywhere to buy stuff for the game to make it more interesting. It's great for casual gamers and serious alike. I don't get much down time to game so it's nice to have a MMORG that I can play for a couple of hours and maybe not pick up again for weeks or longer.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  35. How a game company should be run... by shdowhawk · · Score: 1

    I'm debating if I should post this since it's been an idea of mine for a LONG while now. Sadly, reality is that I do not know people in the market, nor do I have the startup funds (nor time) to try and GET the funds / make the contacts from scratch. The whole point of this is for a FOR PROFIT / Partial OSS company ... and even if I personally don't do it, if someone else can ... I'll still win (better game = I... the player ... wins). That being said, if any major game devs, or people out there read this, feel free to contact me for more ideas, or to get me on board to help run this... I have lots more ideas than what is just written here ...

    Now ... The point...

    It sickens me that companies don't want to take chances on games that might lose a little money, or make only a measly few million (this is when everyone will say wtf is wrong with a few million). This is the same problem with Hollywood and why tv shows like Firefly were canceled for only having a few million views (few million!!)

    The idea then... is to make a company encourages GOOD GAME DEVELOPMENT. I know... horrible idea right? Why make a game that can make 20-50 million in the first year ... then never make money again .. when you can make a game that will make 100+ million over 5 years .. potentially make tons on money on toys like game figurines, maybe make a movie out of it and profit even more? I guess greed = quick money ... not smart investments.

    Here is how I see this. All game engines / code created under the name of the company are 100% owned by said overall company. If the game engine is developed from scratch under the name of the overall company ... then only say ... 5-10% of all profits go to the company, and the game devs/company makes most of the money. (wow ... could this mean that a gaming company with more money can hire better / more devs to make games faster / better in the future?! BRILLIANT!!). On the other hand, if you simply use a PRE-DEVELOPED game engine (all engines the overall company owns can be used for any project), with no payment upfront, depending on the age / newness factor, anywhere between 30-70% of the profits go to the overall company.

    BUT, no worries, as there is an in between! If you make a significant alteration / addition to an existing engine (how long has the unreal engines been used?!), then the overall company makes less profit, and the gaming company makes more profit. Example, take a REALLY new awesome engine .... One that the company might charge 70% of profit for ... have a predefined set of goals established for the engine from the gaming company for what they want to do (additional modules... potential clean up of lots of known issues from the first game that was using the engine... etc). If they do / add/ make the changes ... then that 70% can be brought down to 40-60% ... they didn't do all the work, but they made the product better. This would encourage using the engines and fixing / cleaning them.

    Final money thought ... Caps could be put on to profit for the OVERALL COMPANY (NOT the game company). Example ... overall company would take 70% of all profits ... up to 50 or 100 million dollars. Games like WoW would have hit that limit ... and then suddenly would be making a TON more money. This is actually motivation for the game companies to make a better game, because if they make a long lasting game ... eventually they'll get over that hump and make 100% profit!

    BTW, the overall company would NOT set the price on the game ... the overall company would make recommendations.. but if the game company wanted to set the price at half of what the overall c

  36. Mechwarrior? by Vamman · · Score: 1

    There hasn't been a PC Mechwarrior game released in almost 8 years yet people keep playing Mechwarrior4 because of our community support at MekTek.net and other community leagues and forums dedicated to the game and series. We have become so overwhelmed with supporting the Mechwarrior community that we started building our own versions of the classic PC series (AT1:BT using the Blitz3d engine, NP using OGRE, and our MekPaks for MW4). We did produce 3 fan built expansions for MW4 through some rather creative reverse engineering.

    On average our webserver costs $2000 USD depending where the economy is at, and we also have a development server which costs $1500 USD. We only ask our community to support our webserver and they always do through donations.

    Do I think the community would support a Mechwarrior MMO based on a model that we proved works? SURE! With a little bit of marketing and getting the word out there we could certainly build a self-sustainable Mechwarrior MMO.

    Do I think the future of gaming is dependent on this model? No. I think the future of gaming needs bigwigs to realize that the old school hackers will persist in their communities and locking out PC Game modders is a bad thing in a MMO because it is a subscription based service. Rather, I almost prefer that an MMO subscription is only required to access official game servers and download new content from the primary developer (yes the primary developer needs to provide new content).

    Just my 2cents,
    MekTek.net Founder
    -VAM

    1. Re:Mechwarrior? by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      People still play NASCAR 2003 (2002) and Grand Prix Legends (1998) because Papyrus was bought out by big bad EA Sports. There haven't been good versions of that sort of game since (hard core racing sim) other than a few OSS projects. The "developers" of the NASCAR 2003 series that keep it going do so for no pay, other than whatever business they can drum up with their web advertising and donations. It seems the dichotomy is that real good gaming is not financially reasonable, and really bad games make enough money to keep encouraging the development of more bad games. When in doubt, develop yet another 3d-shooter based on the Half-Life engine and slap a $50 price tag on it.

  37. Perfect World by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

    I'm not opposed to paying for a game, but I just went to the website, and it says it is a free game, except pretty much the only links on that website are to put money in my wallet to pay for the free game. There are no descriptions, no screenshots, no guide, etc.

    If I was going to try an MMO, I'd like one with a little depth of gameplay, one that I can enjoy by myself as much as in a group, and one that I can also run in Linux. Ideally, Star Wars: The Old Republic will run in Wine or have a Linux client, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

    --
    http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  38. Augh Advertising by realsilly · · Score: 1

    I choose to play games to get away from the TV Advertisements, the Web Advertisements, the Billboard Advertisements, the Radio Advertisements, the Phone (cell phone) Advertisements, and the Clothing Advertisements. The last thing I want to see is more Ad sponsored games.

    Can't people just enjoy life without the marketers of this world shoving their advertisements in our faces at every turn?

    If you make a good game, it should sell itself. And people who refuse to pay for anything thinking the world owes them are to me a major cause to all the advertisement. If everyone paid alittle, then most companies probably wouldn't feel the need to see external funds from Advertisers.

    Viscious circle.

    --
    Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
  39. It goes back and forth though... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ut2k4 for example, a lot of the fan made maps and texture packs that kick the crap out of the ones developed by epic, in every way. I'd say it's not so much a gulf between professional and not, but whether that particular type of game attracts enough of the more creative types then not.

    When you see "professional vs amateur", also remember that the "professional" one is very filtered, for one that turned out well, there were probably at least 100 crappy versions thrown out. With amateur, things tend to be released whether good or bad, so you get a less filtered view.

  40. micropayments is not the future. by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

    I use steam. I buy games.

    I hate, hate, hate micropayments. I try to avoid them at all costs.

    Even on my 360, I try to avoid micropayments.

    People don't have a problem buying games. They have a problem buying games that cost $50 and up.

    Steam knows that sale prices increase sales. It's now a proven trend.

    100 sales at $50 isn't as good as 300 sales at $20.

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
  41. Microgifts are the future, not micropayments by avalancher · · Score: 1

    For those who already downloaded a game for free, you can already make gifts (or micro-gifts) here: http://say.youlikeit.org/

  42. No such thing as "Free" by DrWordSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A lot of this has been talked about on this topic: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/09/0517240 There is no such thing as a "free" game. The revenue must come from somewhere, ads, one time purchase fees, or subscription fees. Otherwise the game IS the ad. For example the game the US military uses to recruit new soldiers.

  43. Id? Following? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    Hasn't Id open source their stuff since the 90's? I would say that predates the MMO.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  44. Free? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is for

  45. Posing this question seriously. by w0mprat · · Score: 1

    I'm directing this at programmers and OSS developers and asking seriously not rhetorically.

    Why don't we have the equivalent in the gaming world, that the OS world has with Linux?

    Why isn't there a killer Open Source game engine that outperforms Cryengine and Unreal III engine, is more sophisticated and stable? Where a 'distribution' of the engine is complete game with GPL Game engine + Creative Commons content???

    Explain. I'm perplexed.

    --
    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
  46. Counter-Strike, anyone? by Roger+Wilcox · · Score: 1

    Easily one of the most popular games of the last decade, created by a pair of bored college students in their free time.

    1. Re:Counter-Strike, anyone? by mr_gorkajuice · · Score: 1

      Almost a decent example, except CS isn't really a game. It's a mod. For a commercial game. Much of it's success was probably caused by Valve bundling it with a retail version of Halflife.

      So yeah, in Counter-Strike we have *one* example of a bunch of kiddies that had the skill to turn an awesome success into a slightly different awesome success. Good job, but in the end, they were aided by the technical platform and the distribution-channels of a well established commercial gaming company.

      This bunch of kiddies had the artistic skills. But does anyone know if they truly had the resources to *develop a game*?

  47. Pay per Play by bobby1234 · · Score: 1

    I have some friends that have put together a online game that uses remote controlled tanks.

    They cannot use ads as they only have a few tanks. Sponsors... maybe but again stuck with low volume. So they are trying pay per play.

    have a look at it http://www.rctiger.com/

    great idea... not sure if it is going to work though!!

  48. Good thing they don't have bugs by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    Good thing these commercial games don't have bugs like ones that don't allow you to get 100% in the game, game locking bugs, fake imposed level caps, clipping and camera issues. That's why games never need to be patched, which is especially true of console games since you don't have to target a thousand unpredictable configurations! [/sarcasm]

    1. Re:Good thing they don't have bugs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus companies never do shitty ports, and force you to re-buy the game in different formats where the game isn't even emulated properly or lacks many features!