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Body 2.0 — Continuous Monitoring of the Human Body

Singularity Hub has a story about the development of technology that will some day allow for the constant, real-time monitoring of your medical status, and they take a look at current technological advances to that end. Quoting: "Did you ever stop to think how silly and also how dangerous it is to live our lives with absolutely no monitoring of our body's medical status? Years from now people will look back and find it unbelievable that heart attacks, strokes, hormone imbalances, sugar levels, and hundreds of other bodily vital signs and malfunctions were not being continuously anticipated and monitored by medical implants. ... The huge amounts of data that would be accumulated from hundreds of thousands of continuously monitored people would be nothing short of a revolution for medical research and analysis. This data could be harvested to understand the minute by minute changes in body chemistry that occur in response to medication, stress, infection, and so on. As an example, the daily fluctuations in hormone levels of hundreds of thousands of individuals could be tracked and charted 24/7 to determine a baseline from which abnormalities and patterns could be extracted. The possibilities are enormous."

330 comments

  1. No by seanadams.com · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Did you ever stop to think how silly and also how dangerous it is to live our lives with absolutely no monitoring of our body's medical status?

    I think it's silly how people constantly try to eliminate every imaginable element of risk from their lives instead of just getting out there and living it. I find the idea of having my physiology constantly monitored by a computer about as attractive as living in a big plastic bubble. But hey if what you want out of modern medicine is to be protected by layer after layer of prophylactics so you can feel safe, by all means go for it.

    1. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find the idea of having my physiology constantly monitored by a computer

      (suppresses Big Brother comment)

    2. Re:No by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Shame this device won't detect when you're run over or shot...which may be more likely to happen with your newly found sense of invincibility from your monitoring hardware.

    3. Re:No by davester666 · · Score: 1, Troll

      Don't forget the Heisenberg uncertainty principle... The more closely your health is monitored, the likely the monitoring is going to affect your health.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    4. Re:No by kraemate · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes why dont we all stop using hospitals as well.
      If its your day to die its your day to die.
      Asking for some-one's help to save your life is for sissies.

      I can monitor my laptop's fan speed all day long, but cant do so for my heart, which is /much/ more important than a replaceable gadget.

    5. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I always buy DocWagon Platinum. That 250000 Nuyen is money well spent. Why would anyone NOT want to have real-time medical and location tracking while you are performing shadowy activities.

      Oh, wait. You aren't talking about Shadowrun are you?

    6. Re:No by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I can imagine a future society where your attitude would be considered a threat to public health and forceful measures to protect US from YOU. Then again, a naturalist live-and-let-die movement will be born.

    7. Re:No by Jurily · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I find the idea of having my physiology constantly monitored by a computer about as attractive as living in a big plastic bubble.

      I have an immune system designed for just that purpose. Oh, and it actually does something when it finds something.

    8. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps it is becoming necessary, in a society where we are bombarded with all sorts of feedback in real time. Mobile phones, computers, cars and other machines prompt us to do things _now_. The only thing our body does is to slowly get fat, tired, change it's voice (from excessive smoking) and other slow changes. It's too slow to be competitive with other systems.

      YES -- humans are mostly predictable and will react to feedback and prompts. I know that I am predictable and that I do react. I had no plans at all to write this sentence three minutes ago.

      I really think we need a real time feedback system for our bodies that can compete for attention with other man made feedback systems.

    9. Re:No by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      If you live a healthy lifestyle (i.e., diet, exercise, vitamins, flu shots, no drug use), you really don't need a doctor or 24/7 monitoring unless you're in a serious accident. I haven't been to doctor in seven years since I took charge of my health.

      BTW, The human heart far more reliable than your laptop fan. :P

    10. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>I can monitor my laptop's fan speed all day long, but cant do so for my heart

      - Open Windows desktop clock
      - Place two fingers on wrist
      - When the clock read XX:XX:00 start counting
      - When the clock reads XX:XY:00 stop counting.
      - That's the speed of your hearts in beats per minute. Repeat as often as desired. Cost: Nothing but time.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    11. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >>>a threat to public health and forceful measures to protect US from YOU

      Japan already has mandatory diets for those with BMI>30. When the government gives you taxpayer-supported healthcare, the government also has the right to run your life. Just the same as when Congress hands money to the States, and attaches all kinds of requirements, such as raising the drinking age from 18 to 21.

      Of course the States have the option to refuse Congressional money, and leave the drinking age at 18. Unfortunately the citizens do not have a similar right - citizens are expected to fall into line according to the Tyrants... er, politicians' wishes. "Go on a diet!" "Yes sir."

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    12. Re:No by seanadams.com · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can imagine a future society where your attitude would be considered a threat to public health and forceful measures to protect US from YOU.

      Gosh yes, imagine a world where it's illegal to ride a bike unless you are wearing a proper helmet approved by a government designated regulatory agency, or to drive your car without wearing your seatbelt, or to smoke a cigarette or a joint in the privacy of your own home. Or where you're required by the state to buy overpriced insurance whether you want it or not. Where the state disciplines you for disciplining your kid, where restaurants are forbidden from serving certain tasty yet unhealthy ingredients, where every product and every place of business is clearly labeled concerning the possible risks of cancer. Oh, heaven forfend that this might spiral into such lunacy!

    13. Re:No by kkrajewski · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I have an immune system designed for just that purpose. Oh, and it actually does something when it finds something.

      Yeah, but DOES IT RUN LINUX?

    14. Re:No by Linker3000 · · Score: 5, Funny

      "You are experiencing a heart attack. I have checked your bank balance and credit card limits and you have insufficient funds for full, practical treatment. Do you want me to SMS a) Your wife, or b) Your mother. Watching the following funeral services commercial presentations may entitle you to a 10% discount. Here's some soothing music while you decide and I update your Myspace status and send a Tweet."

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    15. Re:No by kraemate · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Its not just about real-time monitoring but also collecting data.
      Knowing the complete medical history will enable far diagnosis.
      Everybody is different and this data will stop doctors from generalizations and treat patients based on their past data and actual deviations from /your/ average.

    16. Re:No by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Funny
      Yeah, but DOES IT RUN LINUX?

      With implanted medical monitors, LINUX RUNS YOU!

    17. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I started counting when the clock was showing 22:22:00 and stopped when it was 22:21:00. It turns out my heart is doing around 2000 beats per second. Awesome!

    18. Re:No by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      I have an immune system designed for just that purpose. Oh, and it actually does something when it finds something.

      Actually many people's immune systems are "designed" to kill them (autoimmune disorders).

      Still, I agree with the general points in this thread, that life is for living, not for obsessing over.

    19. Re:No by clarkkent09 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can't "take charge of your health". Sure, living a healthy lifestyle reduces the risks of many health problems but there are plenty where your genes count far more than your lifestyle. In many of the most serious diseases (such as many cancers and heart problems) family history is the primary factor. Of course accidents can happen too.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    20. Re:No by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      You can't "take charge of your health".

      Oh yes you can. Even though that will mean putting a bullet through your skull occasionally. Welcome to freedom and responsibility. Ha ha.

    21. Re:No by Bobb9000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm glad someone in this thread isn't being ridiculous. I would love to be able to have a constant readout of my body's status. While you can determine some things using your own senses, there's nothing like a computer for precisely doing dull, repetitive tasks, like checking your pulse or taking your blood pressure.

      While there are obvious privacy issues here, new technology doesn't have to always produce net evil results. I would have thought people on a tech board would understand that. If devices like this were built to only report results using a method that's sure to be noticed, and stupid governments don't pass laws mandating the results be given to the government, this would be an incredible tool not only for medical diagnosis, but also for learning to better control your body.

      And before anyone starts yapping about how governments are always stupid and will always take your freedom, so we'd be better off not having this tech, I just have to say: grow up. Governments are masses of people, not monolithic freedom vampires, and if you seriously think that you can have no impact on the course of government, you don't deserve the freedoms a lot of people have worked hard and sacrificed for over the years. If you don't like the current state of government (and there's plenty not to like), then get genuinely politically active, instead of just anonymously whining on the internet.

      Sorry, /rant.

      --
      Bobb9000 - raised by the wolves,
      Oxford education as phrased by the wolves.
    22. Re:No by bencoder · · Score: 1

      sounds pretty useful to me, personally.

    23. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      where are my mod points when I need them, well done sir.

    24. Re:No by artor3 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, ever since I took charge of my health and decided not to have cancer, I've been just fine!

    25. Re:No by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      Knowing the complete medical history will enable far diagnosis.

      Unless there's errors in the medical history that send the doctor on a wild goose chase.

    26. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I anticipate a GPS extension for real-time bowel movements.

    27. Re:No by clarkkent09 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Still, continuous monitoring of your heart rate is far more useful. You could have a serious heart condition and your pulse will still look normal in most random tests. When it starts to show abnormalities is when you want to be alerted and that's what an implant would do.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    28. Re:No by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      According to my family history, if you drink and/or smoke, you die young from liver and cancer disease. If you live a healthy lifestyle, you die of "natural causes" in your early 90s. Taking responsibility for my own health was the best decision in my young life.

    29. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As we already witnessed in countless dictatorships, all that is required to make people do something horrifying to the objective observer is the belief that what they're doing will benefit mankind in the end.

      With this in mind, governments are, yes, freedom vampires, except where vampires couldn't enter the house without your permission, governments have 4 AM, SWAT-style no-knock raids. The idea of having a government monitor your health statistics 24/7 is LITERALLY taken out of the book 1984, and if it fell into the hands of the government, would mean the end of freedom for mankind. Government at its very worst is simply coercive robbery - imagine giving your local mafioso 24/7 information about your actions.

    30. Re:No by eh2o · · Score: 1

      Ironically, this sort of tech is most likely to be picked up first by people who do extreme sports like mountaineering, high intensity training, etc.

    31. Re:No by Skal+Tura · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ROFLMAO! X)

      Utopistic

      But that shows one important question: Why do we keep paying immensively high taxes (atleast here in Finland), yet are unable to get something as important as proper medical care?

      Here, high taxes is often defended with medical care, yet it's totally crap, if you get doctor's appointment, they have less than 5minutes for you, and basicly rolls a dice to make a diagnosis, and gives you random medication.

      Or more recent incident was that i were getting wisdom tooth removed, i got the appointment in several hours as emergency (the tooth cracked) and the operation was fast and painless, they pumped me so full of dope!

      However: They did not warn me not to drive my car, NOR did warn about the immense pain i would be suffering from a few hours late. Thank god my friend happened to have red triangle painmeds, but even with them the pain got so hard through that my knees went soft everytime it struck through an very high dose of that red triangle pain med.

      No warning, no prescriptions or anything, that really sucked ... 2 days of agony even with those meds, which were so powerfull that almost everytime after taking one i fell asleep.

    32. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, let's see here.

      Bike helmets make you MORE likely to be hit by a car, because the drivers of the cars will subconsciously assume you're a better biker and give you less room to manuever.

      It is the freedom of the individual to choose what they ingest, be it tobacco, peyote or cyanide. The individual has the right to determine the associated benefits and risks of what they ingest. The same argument applies to food. I have the choice to eat soy and lentils 24/7, and I also have the choice to eat deep-fried garbage. It is my responsibility and my right to balance my own enjoyment of eating food and the associated risks to my health - such risks, I should mention, increase drastically in a governmentally enforced, monopolistic industrial food production system.

      Let's say I live on a 30th floor apartment, because of the massive overpopulation we've got going on. My 3 year old kid has picked up a habit of climbing up the window screen with forks whenever it's opened. Am I going to patiently explain to him basic Newtonian physics, and emphasize the risks of what he's doing? No. He will not understand that. I will likely spank him, so he associates that negative experience with his actions, even if it results in some hostility towards me. It is again, my right to choose how to discipline my child based on the circumstances of the situation. The government cannot legislate this sensibly.

      Now as per your "clearly labeling" products that have an alleged risk for cancer, this is a more subtle scam. If the government decides to overemphasize the carcinogenic properties of some product, requiring labels on the product such that the consumers will be 'informed' of the drastic risk involved in buying the product, then the consumers are already being conditioned to accept the notion of taxes on this product, due to the evil they now perceive in the producers of it. You might claim that Arizona iced tea is carcinogenic, but you'd have to prove it by either establishing one of the ingredients as carcinogenic, or identifying an unknown carcinogenic ingredient. But you will not do that. You will trust the government to do that. Hence, the government has the power to determine what products (aka, what businesses) are dangerous and levy taxes on the 'dangerous' ones, for your own safety.

      Are you more concerned about cancer, or the government robbing your livelihood?

    33. Re:No by Bobb9000 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I have imagined giving (insert big bad here) 24/7 information about my actions and health status. That's why I specifically mentioned that this technology raises the obvious spectre of that problem. However, what you're not addressing is the main thrust of the rant portion of my post, which is that perhaps we'd be better off taking action to prevent bad governments than simply decrying new technologies. Have you heard of this new technology called video cameras? Given the idea of government you're putting forward, I expect that we all have them in every room of our house, so that the big bad can more efficiently suck away our freedom. Oh, what's that? The government hasn't mandated that we all put cameras in our bedrooms? Well, I guess politics must be a complicated, messy thing that can't be accurately described as either 1984 or Utopia.

      Oops. Didn't see that one coming.

      --
      Bobb9000 - raised by the wolves,
      Oxford education as phrased by the wolves.
    34. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Your husband is experiencing a heart attack. We have checked his bank balance and credit card limits and found that he has insufficient funds for an ambulance. If you'd like to pay for his ambulance, text back AMBULANCE. This will cost $10000 + normal network rates."

    35. Re:No by thousandinone · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for the world as a whole, but I strongly believe that the juggernaut that the US Federal government has become has passed the threshold wherein the citizenry can affect meaningful change through the 'established channels.'

    36. Re:No by pthreadunixman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I hate it when people quote Heisenberg out of context.

    37. Re:No by shawb · · Score: 0

      Yes, there will be some errors. And those exist now... just last night I was talking to someone who went to get a birth control shot, and she got suspect when they tried to administer it in a different arm than normal (the charts list preference of arm.) It turns out they had the chart of someone with the same name (first, middle initial, and last) and birthdate (but born two years later) who was also scheduled to come in that day for an insulin injection for diabetes. If the other patient had also been right handed, a dangerous situation would have been caused for both patients.

      Having the blood sugar level information automatically read by instruments already in the body would have sent an immediate warning to not administer insulin...

      And having as little of a medical history as most doctors currently do makes diagnosis resemble a snipe hunt compared to the wild goose chase that errors in the history would cause. I assume determining if anomalous readings are due to actual fluctuation or equipment error would be a standard part of diagnosis.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
    38. Re:No by Jurily · · Score: 4, Funny

      Microsoft Vaccine 2000 is configuring your immune system. This may take a few minutes. If your body stops responding for a long time and there is no brain activity please die. Setup will continue after you are reborn.

    39. Re:No by davester666 · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by 'out of context'? If your health is monitored at the sub-atomic level, it totally applies.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    40. Re:No by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 1

      not to mention, most "abnormalities" would be seen as miscounts.

      --
      -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
    41. Re:No by The+Mighty+Buzzard · · Score: 1

      There's a huge difference between asking for help in an emergency and being so paranoid that you need 24/7 monitoring.

      --
      Violence is like duct tape. If it doesn't solve the problem, you didn't use enough.
    42. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *jerk-off hand motion*

      Yes you're a real tough and adventurous guy. That's why you're giving advice on how to live life properly on slashdot.

      Douche...

    43. Re:No by lyml · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You mean beating children is not illegal in your country? Wow, what kind of third world country is that?

    44. Re:No by garett_spencley · · Score: 1

      All human action is a means to an end. To relieve felt uneasiness. From the day human had to escape being eaten by a lion to the day we created a vaccine for small pox we have been trying to increase our chances for survival. It is very easy to argue that you and your ancestors owe your very existence to that innate behaviour.

    45. Re:No by spineboy · · Score: 1

      Some people are genetically predisposed to acquire diabetes or hypertension - even if your eat super healthy food, exercise, etc.

      --
      ..........FULL STOP.
    46. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG hilarious

    47. Re:No by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

      You have proved the PP's point. Those things are BAD, or have you forgotten your civics?

      --
      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    48. Re:No by rastilin · · Score: 1

      I think it's silly how people constantly try to eliminate every imaginable element of risk from their lives instead of just getting out there and living it. I find the idea of having my physiology constantly monitored by a computer about as attractive as living in a big plastic bubble. But hey if what you want out of modern medicine is to be protected by layer after layer of prophylactics so you can feel safe, by all means go for it.

      I disagree completely. I love being alive and I want to do as much as possible. Also, I don't equate being alive with being in danger. Therefore, if something will improve my survival without having a negative impact on the rest of my life then I'm all for it.

      If you really must have danger then look at it this way, you now have the opportunity to try the maximum amount of legal and illegal drugs to the fullest extent that your body can take. You'll instantly know when you've hit your limit.

      --
      How do you kill that which has no life?
    49. Re:No by w0mprat · · Score: 4, Informative

      When the government gives you taxpayer-supported healthcare, the government also has the right to run your life

      Not true. I live in a country with publicly funded healthcare. It seems statements such as yours are FUD and rhetoric from the private healthcare industry since it clearly not how things actually work out. Clearly totally private healthcare as implemented in the USA does not work. The advantage of of public healthcare is everybody has access to it, and are get care based on need, not on wealth class or race, which is what inevitably happens with an private insurance based system.

      So presumably, you trust big corporates more than a government?

      Don't get me wrong though, public healtcare has problems, especially in terms of limited resources in the UK, various EU members, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc. But somehow these nations rank much higher in health standards that the USA.

      For-profit health care is beholden to a financial bottom line, not a democratic government mandated to measure performance on care, not revenue. So in private vs public the latter is the lesser of two evils.

      --
      After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
    50. Re:No by pthreadunixman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Heisenberg was specifically talking about being unable measure position and momentum precisely at the same time at the quantum level. For some reason, it has been turned into some meta-physical philosophical concept that I find annoying. Yes. We can measure body temperature without causing people to spontaneously catch on fire. Yes. We can measure the temperature of the Earth without it causing it to explode. No. We can't measure the spin of an electron and know it's exact position at the same time.

    51. Re:No by pthreadunixman · · Score: 1

      s/know it's exact position/know its exact position/

    52. Re:No by durrr · · Score: 1

      Monitoring health at subatomic levels?

      Have your ever heard of a doctor talking about anything even remotely resembling neutron deficiency or any other indicators of subatomic medicine?

      Well, electrons, if counted as subatomic, are somewhat involved, but that's because their involvement in chemistry.

    53. Re:No by sneilan · · Score: 1

      That's absolutely right. People aren't even allowed to visit the Whitehouse anymore. And if you walk too close, you'll probably be called a terrorist, picked up and thrown away. (Either that or shot.) You can't send an email or a letter to the government either. Most senators ignore these things because they get so many of them now.

      --
      "I like it when the red water comes out.."
    54. Re:No by caluml · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But that's the sort of misidentification than implanted RFID tags, and tattooed numbers on the skin will prevent? Can't you see the benefits?

    55. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One word to disprove your post: Sumo

    56. Re:No by durrr · · Score: 1

      And you could have extremely high levels of PSA in your bloodstream, detectable with a simple test, indicating you'll be dead in prostate cancer in two years if nothing is done.

      Most likely you're a bit too young for it as of current, but when you close in to 50 years of age you should definitely not go seven years without visiting a doctor.

    57. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both private and public health systems can co-exist, their not mutally exclusive. It helps for those who don't want to be on a waiting list and are willing/able to pay for it.

    58. Re:No by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You believe you have an impact on government? Then you're numerically- and politically-naive, at best (so, I will guess you are a college student).

      Voting is individually-irrational -- even if it is collectively the least-bad political option yet-devised (it beats dictatorship in its ability to deliver human freedom and modern societal outcomes).

      Take a hypothetical voting population of 100 people - you are 1 of that 100. Assume 51% voter turnout.

      Of the 51 people voting, assume 26 voted Republican, 24 voted Democrat, and your vote is not yet cast. What is your vote?

      Answer: it doesn't matter. If you vote Democrat, you still lose: 26 (R) votes out-numbers 25 (D) votes -- Republicans win. And if you vote Republican (27 vs 24), the Republicans still win, but by a larger margin.

      So, the election outcome is identical -- regardless of how, or even *whether*, you voted.

      The logic is the same with any democratic election, only with much bigger numbers.

      Thus, the only scenario in which your individual vote makes *any* difference is the practically-impossible tie-breaker case: e.g. voting population = 50, 25 vote (R), 24 vote (D), and you choose to vote (D) results in a tie, rather than a Democratic loss. (And we know from the 2000 how this case turns-out in U.S. Presidential elections, in practice: 9 unelected judges in the U.S. Supreme Court decide who becomes President, instead of you or the rest of the nation.)

      As the saying goes, "democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner." Democracy, in short, is mobocracy. Government *does* seek to abolish freedom, under any political party's guidance (Republican, Democrat, even Libertarian); it is always a question of "freedom for (and from) whom, and freedom in what form?"

      Personally, I'm ambivalent about this continuous monitoring. It has great potential for bettering human health, but also great potential for abuse, not only by government, but criminals and businesses too...

    59. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is that ironic?

    60. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.theonion.com/content/video/courageous_man_refuses_to_believe

    61. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good point about just needing a government that doesn't pass stupid laws that violate your privacy. Unfortunately, my government already passed laws that entitle them to look at any or all of my medical records held by any provider or insurer, thus I can understand the caution.

      My medical insurer recently told me I could do an online lifestyle and health questionnaire and it would provide suggestions for increased health. Sounded good to me, as they already have most of my medical data. But I had a nagging little voice saying, "You really want ALL your medical/psychological/sociological data public?" I decided against it, and figured I could ask my doctor anything I wanted without having a full computer record of it. My doctor still uses paper records for everything but insurance submissions, so stuff said privately remains difficult to obtain.

      And I do realize that within a few years all of my medical data will be routinely available to the federal government and most medical providers and anyone any of the millions of employees of those organizations, and anyone they care to divulge or sell it to. As it is, my dentist is trying to hawk an evaluation system to insurance companies so they can vary rates based on probably future dental treatments. And with so many people seeming to desire "change" in healthcare, without providing details of those changes, I fear that few are heeding the the old saying, "The devil is in the details."

    62. Re:No by yndrd1984 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Clearly totally private healthcare as implemented in the USA does not work.

      Just to be clear, we don't have totally private healthcare here. The government covers about 40% of us, most of the rest get coverage through work, and only a small fraction actually buy health insurance on its own. This allows us to enjoy healthcare as unequally distributed as a full-blown free market system, as bureaucratic and unresponsive as any large government system, and as expensive as both put together.

    63. Re:No by Bobb9000 · · Score: 1

      As a matter of fact, I'm not a college student. I also doubt that I'm as numerically or politically naive as you think. I have an engineering degree, and I'm about to graduate law school, so I have a pretty strong grounding in both. I have no illusion that my individual vote is likely to be determinative, and I've done enough game theory to know the difficulties associated with voting. However, I don't think that it's reasonable to draw from that the conclusion that voting is pointless. First of all, since most of the time you only know the results after the vote, there is no way to tell beforehand whether or not your vote will be decisive, so it would be foolish to decide from this not to vote. However, I recognize that that doesn't change the fact that, most of the time, whether or not you individually vote doesn't change the outcome. That's why I didn't specifically talk about voting: there's a lot more to working for better government than just voting for better government.

      I've seen myself the difference that advocacy and argument can make in elections, and by contributing your own efforts to a larger group, you can change many more votes than your own. Obviously, this won't always work, especially if you're advocating for positions that the majority of people either don't care about or are actively hostile to. I don't deny that no matter how much you as an individual may do to advocate for a cause, it may be that you will lose. However, it's not hard to look back over history and see examples where the settled authority has been forced to change by popular demand.

      In short, I agree with your math, but I don't agree with what you take from it. I also can't say that our current government(s) is/are likely to get any better. In fact, things may get worse. Maybe we will slip into a 1984-style totalitarian state. All I can say is, we're not there yet, and if we do find ourselves there, then we'll have to deal with it the same way people have always dealt with oppressive governments: either go with the flow, or take up arms.* However, the fact remains that we're not there yet.

      *I do not include passive resistance a la Ghandi here, because under a truly totalitarian government that probably won't do too much good.

      --
      Bobb9000 - raised by the wolves,
      Oxford education as phrased by the wolves.
    64. Re:No by Bobb9000 · · Score: 1

      I can't speak for the world as a whole, but I strongly believe that the juggernaut that the US Federal government has become has passed the threshold wherein the citizenry can affect meaningful change through the 'established channels.'

      I understand the sentiment, but the way you've phrased it is false. The "citizenry" can very much still effect meaningful change in the federal government through established channels (i.e., voting); the difficulty is that small portions of the citizenry cannot. The majority of people in this country do not consider the growth of the Federal government to be particularly unconstitutional or inherently wrong, so those few who do think so have a hard time getting like-minded politicians elected. This principle hasn't changed since the founding, only the scale of the problem, and frankly, you have a hell of a lot greater chance of effecting meaningful change in the government if you're a woman or ethnic minority now than you did at any other point in this nation's history.

      Personally, I don't think it's impossible to have a central government the size of the one in the current USA that doesn't infringe rights we care about, but I agree it's much more dangerous. I would guess that the majority of Americans are far less concerned about it than I am. And until you can get a cultural shift to a mindset that cares about that danger, you won't be able to effect the kind of change you're looking for. I'm sorry, but that's democracy, and even if our system were working perfectly, that wouldn't change.

      --
      Bobb9000 - raised by the wolves,
      Oxford education as phrased by the wolves.
    65. Re:No by maxume · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about trans fats? They don't taste any better than butter or peanut oil, they just last on the shelf better.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    66. Re:No by Oloryn · · Score: 1

      Have your ever heard of a doctor talking about anything even remotely resembling neutron deficiency or any other indicators of subatomic medicine?

      Practically every time they deal with health on Star Trek.

      Oh, wait, you're trying to talk about real doctors on /.?

    67. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 1

      I think it's silly how people constantly try to eliminate every imaginable element of risk from their lives instead of just getting out there and living it.

      I agree. I also think it's silly to say we have "absolutely no monitoring of our body's medical status" when we have our nervous system - a far more comprehensive, sensitive monitoring and fault detection system than covers most industrial plants.

      My mantra on the matter is this: "I love life too much to let my fear of losing it stop me from living it."

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    68. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 2, Funny

      I hate it when people quote Heisenberg out of context.

      He might, or might not, have quoted Heisenberg out of context. Until I look it up, though, his post exists in a state of superposition, doesn't it? :)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    69. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Rather than have Uncle Sam Healthcare, or Corporate health insurance, I prefer to pay my bills as they happen. So far by not buying insurance I've saved $5000 * 36 years == $180,000. I spend $100-200 a year on my health, so reduce that to ~$170,000 saved.

      >>>you trust big corporates more than a government?

      Absolutely not. I hate corporations. But at least I have the option to not hand them my money w/o fear of getting tossed into jail. Corporations offer the freedom of choice; the U.S. Congress only offers a monopoly and the fear of IRS audits. Oh, and waterboarding (torture). ;-)

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    70. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      camera's on every corner in UK.....

    71. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 1

      I tried to get my university physics lecturers to explain how they got from "the formula breaks if we try to do anything infinitely precisely" to "everything exists in a magic state of maybe unless we look at it at which point it makes up its mind". I either got handwaving and a lot of ums and ahs or I got told "well that's just the way it is, and you couldn't possibly understand why" (me being just an engineer, I was obviously far below these physicist types). It seems to me that this is a prime example of mistaking the model for the system.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    72. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 1

      My grandparents on my mother's side smoked when they were young, quit in their 30s (or 40s? not sure) and both died of Alzheimers in their 70s. My grandparents on my dad's side both smoked like chimneys. Grandma held out into her mid-70s before dying of lung cancer, my Opa had a stroke at 78 or so and occasionally pees in the flowerpot in his room in his nursing home, but leave him alone for 5 minutes and he's caught a bus and is down the pub with a beer.

      I'm wondering if I should take up smoking to balance out my drinking for a healthier lifestyle...

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    73. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Voting is individually-irrational -- even if it is collectively the least-bad political option yet-devised (it beats dictatorship in its ability to deliver human freedom and modern societal outcomes).

      This is purely psychological. The fact that the populous get to pick one of two potential dictators doesn't mean that they have any say in the running of the country. They just think they do because they had the option to vote, and so they don't feel entitled to muster up a coup when the government screws them over.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    74. Re:No by Bobb9000 · · Score: 1

      Do you honestly think that it makes no difference whatsoever who gets elected to Congress? You can look at voting records and see actual differences on a number of issues. Just because your particular issue isn't one of them doesn't mean that we live in a dictatorship; it just means that the majority of your fellow citizens is probably against you. We can discuss political philosophy if you want, and argue that any system where the will of the individual is suppressed by others is a dictatorship, but at that point any government other than anarchy is a dictatorship. And if you're seriously advocating anarchy, that's a whole different kettle of fish.

      --
      Bobb9000 - raised by the wolves,
      Oxford education as phrased by the wolves.
    75. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's quite the spectacular misapplication of a physical principal to an unrelated area you've got there.

    76. Re:No by Bobb9000 · · Score: 1

      Somehow, I knew someone would bring that up. I think that having that many cameras is probably a very bad thing, but one way or another you have to admit that it's significantly different from having a camera in your house. I think it's possible to have a free society with cameras on street corners. I don't think it's possible with cameras in houses.

      --
      Bobb9000 - raised by the wolves,
      Oxford education as phrased by the wolves.
    77. Re:No by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      And if you sit there and watch your fan speed all day long you are just as much of a douchebag as a guy who wants to monitor his heart all day long. If you're that worried about being alive you're probably missing what I think is the point of being alive, which is, you know ... living.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    78. Re:No by speedtux · · Score: 1

      I can monitor my laptop's fan speed all day long, but cant do so for my heart, which is /much/ more important than a replaceable gadget.

      And when you detect problems, what are you going to do? The same thing you should already be doing: eat healthy and exercise regularly. There's little else a hospital can do for you.

      Yes why dont we all stop using hospitals as well.

      Hospitals are good for obvious, acute problems: broken bones, appendicitis, problem births, etc. You don't need monitoring to detect those, they are self-evident.

      Hospitals are mostly useless for the kinds of problems detected by these sensors: obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc.

    79. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      myspace.com
      Linker3000 is: Dying X(

    80. Re:No by speedtux · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Japan already has mandatory diets for those with BMI>30. When the government gives you taxpayer-supported healthcare, the government also has the right to run your life.

      Well, I can't find anything corroborating those claims. But assuming they are true, most likely, there aren't "mandatory diets" but simply either/or choices: either you go on a diet or you lose your government health care. And that's something I'd fully support: if you refuse reasonable treatments, then your health insurance shouldn't be required to pay for your further treatments. It's just like your car insurance isn't required to pay if you deliberately crash your car.

    81. Re:No by raddan · · Score: 1

      we have our nervous system - a far more comprehensive, sensitive monitoring and fault detection system than covers most industrial plants.

      The nervous system is good, but-- it could be better. It can't tell you that chronic high blood pressure is an indicator of coronary artery disease. It can't tell you that chronic high blood sugar levels will cause diabetes. It can't tell you when you have HIV.

      I think constant monitoring would be most important when it comes to public health research. Right now, we have a model of the human body that is based on periodic testing, and, when you die, pathology on your dead tissue. We haven't been able to constantly monitor a living human being, let alone, a large population of human beings. This will surely give us useful information to adjust our human model.

      For instance, we know that both genetics and behavior have big consequences on a person's health, and that understanding how the two interact will allow us to develop medicines tailored to a specific person's biology. Without constant monitoring, coming up with sufficient data is going to be a much lengthier process.

      Surely modern medicine has given us great personal freedom. We can travel the entire United States, Europe and many other places without fear of being infected by many diseases, because, by and large, our population has herd immunity to many of the worst diseases. We don't need to worry about our diets, because, we generally understand nutrition-- you're not, e.g., going to get scurvy the next time you take a cruise to the Bahamas. IMHO, knowing the details of your body can only help you live your life to its fullest potential.

    82. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... might spiral into such lunacy!

      With 1/100 in jail presently or within the last year or in the parolee system for much of what you rant about, spiraling out of control is indeed a possibility. Being a nanny or jack-booted thug is a HUGE industry and it will likely dwarf the teachers union before too long. Nobody says no to those people. We may not have the money they want always, but they have the undying loyalty of most politicians - even Republicans which is odd because the don't get their votes for the most part.

    83. Re:No by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      omg, this must be the first instance where a comment containing a variation of the "does it run linux" meme has been moderated offtopic.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    84. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an interesting concept, to have instant empirical data on the state of my body.
      I prefer to look at it as a system to enhance performace rather than prevent disaster.
      If it an help me squeeze a little more out of each day then I'm all for it.

      --
      Better, Stronger, Faster, Linux.

    85. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The United States (or at least most member states) already have mandatory seatbelt and motorcycle helmet laws.Who do you think benefits from these laws? The insurance companies and the health care industry. So, I guess since they are paying your medical bills, you are ok with them telling you how to live your life.

    86. Re:No by MrNaz · · Score: 1

      The Heisenberg principle refers to the fact that in order to observe something, you need to look at it. Looking at it requires light to bounce off it.

      If what you are looking at is an electron, then the single photon that you'd detect bouncing off it would tell you where the electron had been, but because electrons are so small, that single photon would have moved it. Thus, you'd know where the electron had been *before* the photon hit it, but not where it was now.

      There is actually a whole lot more to it, but that's it conceptually.

      Being religious, I call it the God Limit. Essentially, no matter how smart we become, even in 10 million years if we evolve to energy beings, transcend death itself and become One Single Consciousness, the Heisenberg principle means that we can never know everything about everything. That will always be the line between us and God. YMMV depending on your theological stance.

      --
      I hate printers.
    87. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Medical info is already given to insurance co's everytime you interact with "modern" medicine, the negative privacy implications are already in place and the corporations are a lot worse than the politicians

    88. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I understand the principle. :) But there's a massive gulf between "It's not possible for me to read the thermometer inside a box without changing the temperature in the box, affecting the thermometer's next reading" and "The thermometer doesn't indicate any temperature at all until I look at it".

      I like the way you tie it in with religion - faith requires unprovability (or unfalsifiability, at least) by definition, and where better to get it from than a physically provable source of uncertainty? :)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    89. Re:No by Splintax · · Score: 1

      And do you have that $170k saved and ready to spend should you fall victim to an accident that ends up costing you tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills?

    90. Re:No by achurch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Japan already has mandatory diets for those with BMI>30.

      Not quite true. The relevant law mandates metabolic syndrome checks for people aged 40-74, and it catches people with (1) waist size >= 85cm (90cm for women) or BMI >= 25 and (2) high blood pressure, high cholesterol, or high blood sugar. Supposedly there's a financial penalty for not taking the exam, or for not following the directions (diet, etc.) you're given, but I haven't been able to find any specific mention of such.

    91. Re:No by Splintax · · Score: 1

      How would an implant such as the one proposed in the article "stop [you] from living" your life?

    92. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Read my quote. :P That line was directly in response to the thing I quoted.

      I don't see anything wrong with having a few more gauges and dials on the dashboard, so to speak. As a geek, I rather like the idea. :) What I do dislike is the idea of having yet another "idiot light" that'll tell me to go see my doctor just in case (and probably double my health insurance if I don't).

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    93. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it STARTS with a camera on every corner

    94. Re:No by taiwanjohn · · Score: 1

      >>(The truth about AIG and Congress.) http://www.foxnews..../

      Hm, I think the "truth" according to Glenn Beck is missing a few chapters.

      The truth is, we're far more deeply screwed than most people have realized yet.

      http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover/

      Enjoy,

      --jrd

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    95. Re:No by trytoguess · · Score: 1

      So, by that logic, every single nation with a police force is doomed to become a totalitarian state?

    96. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Yes. I have almost $500,000 in the bank and I'm only in my 30s. Yeah I know. An American that saves his money instead of spends it. Shocking. ;-)

      People often exaggerate the cost of emergency or major medical care. IMHO if you can afford to spend ~$60,000 on 2 SUVs for wife and hubby, you can afford the cost of the occasional, rare medical bill. $8000 for my dad's pacemaker; $12,000 for my mom's hysterectomy. Still less money then they spend on their cars. If you can afford 2 Ford Living Room SUVs or Lexus or whatever, you can afford the body-related expenses.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    97. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>either you go on a diet or you lose your government health care. And that's something I'd fully support:

      Me too. I. Do. Not. Want. Government. Health. I applied for unemployment last week, and you know what the government told me? - "You are ineligible, because we have no record that you earned money during 2007 or 2008." That's funny. If I earned no money, why'd you tax me almost 40,000 dollars these last two years??? Now imagine that same idiot bureaucracy running my healthcare:

      "Congratulations! Your new heart is working perfectly."

      "But I came in for appendix removal!!!!"

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    98. Re:No by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

      People often exaggerate the cost of emergency or major medical care.

      No, they don't. You're just ignoring the really expensive cases trying to make that point.

      $8000 for my dad's pacemaker;

      That's not major surgery (no opening of body cavities, etc), doesn't come with a string of followup costs or an extended hospital stay attached to it, and, most importantly, doesn't keep you from earning a living afterwards.

      $12,000 for my mom's hysterectomy.

      Almost the same as above. A short, routine surgical procedure, which should actually be much cheaper that $12k from a purely economic viewpoint if there are no complications.

      Come back when you're actually willing to include some of the more expensive (and not really uncommon) medical cases - try things like organ transplants, leukemia, brain tumors, cancer in general, major accidents, etc, and not just plain vanilla routine surgery.

    99. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>there's a financial penalty for not taking the exam, or for not following the directions (diet, etc.)

      Thanks for the correction. Still, the bottom line is you are the government's plaything, to do with whatever they want (get exam, go on diet), or if you refuse you get punished. That's not liberty.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    100. Re:No by Splintax · · Score: 1

      Congratulations on saving so much money - I definitely think that's a skill more people could use these days.

      My point was that most people don't have money saved, and that's why insurance is valuable to them.

      If you can cover any medical expenses that might come up, more power to you -- but not everybody has that luxury, and it's not always due to their bad spending habits.

    101. Re:No by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

      My point was that most people don't have money saved,

      (in fact, if everyone had that much money saved, it wouldn't be worth anything. Inflation's a b1tch).

    102. Re:No by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Pretty much, yes. Can you name one that has not and has also survived to the present? I bet most such countries that you'd name are less than a few hundred years old (in their modern incarnations).

    103. Re:No by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

      So, by that logic, every single nation with a police force is doomed to become a totalitarian state?

      Well, there's a non-zero chance for every nation with a police force to become a totalitarian state each year, so you just have to wait long enough.

      However, nations without a police force will become totalitarian even more quickly (someone forms an army of personal thugs and takes over, and voila, instant totalitarian state. Who's going to stop them, the police?).

    104. Re:No by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Yes, I honestly and completely believe it makes no difference who is voted into any political office (in the US). The only difference is in how you will be screwed, not whether.

      In accordance with my beliefs, I have voted exactly once in the 13 years in which I have been eligible. And I voted for legalization of marijuana -- in other words, I voted for an issue, not a candidate.

    105. Re:No by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      You are also likely single with no dependents. Try raising a family for even a few years with only half a million saved to cover medical.

    106. Re:No by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Well, the logical and moral alternative to these laws would be to deny coverage to anyone involved in an accident if they were not wearing a seatbelt or helmet. If the victim does not care about his health enough to take these simple measures, there should be no requirement for anyone else to pay for their treatment.

      Unfortunately, we live in a society where "personal responsibility" is anathema.

    107. Re:No by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      Well, the logical and moral alternative to these laws would be to deny coverage to anyone involved in an accident if they were not wearing a seatbelt or helmet.

      Trying to squeeze water from a rock here, are we?

      Of course, you can _try_ to stick such idiots with the cost of their medical bills, but your chances of actually collecting are fairly slim. So, someone's gotta eat the costs, as usual. Possibly the hospital, which will distribute them among the patients that actually have enough money to pay their bills, which is pretty much exactly the kind of hidden, back door socialization that's to blame for a good share of todays problems with medical bills.

    108. Re:No by yabos · · Score: 1

      Spanking is not considered beating where I come from.

    109. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Come back when you're actually willing to

      Come back when you're actually willing to acknowledge that most people DON'T have huge medical bills. My grandmother never spend a day of her life in the hospital, except for leg surgery ($8000) and her death day ($2000). My grandfather died in his room. $0.00. My aunt did the same. $0.00. My uncle fell on his head, and then he spent a day in the intensive care ($4000).

      Now let's compare the cost of cars. My grandfather owned about ten cars over the course of his life, each one kept until it either died or he gave it away to his son. Ditto my grandmother. That's ~$600,000 Combined they spent 60 times more money on cars than they did on hospital stays.

      POINT: Compared to how much money Americans waste on cars, they can certainly afford the SMALL amount of money the occasional, rare healthcare bill costs. People need to put things into perspective.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    110. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>My point was that most people don't have money saved, and that's why insurance is valuable to them.

      I'm okay with insurance because even though I think it's a tool to make the CEO and other managers rich (think AIG bonuses), I also have the option to not participate. But Uncle Sam Healthcare would not have that option. Forced participation is my main complaint; I don't like being forced to do anything. That's the opposite of freedom.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    111. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I have a family. One 5-year-old. I've found that saying "no" is an effective way to reduce costs. "Daddy can I have an Xbox 360?" "No we already have a PS2; you can play that."

      That's yet another skill that Americans seem to have lost - inability to save money, inability to say no to their children, and inability to say no to themselves (self-sacrifice). The last two tie into the first, and I firmly believe the Chinese are destined to become our landlords if we don't soon relearn these attributes.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    112. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome, yes and your genetic descendants will be charged a 30% rate adjustment for health care due to their statistically higher chances of having a heart attack. etc. etc., would you like to make a deathbed donation of your organs to help the US financial system get back on it's feet? If so groan once...have a nice day!

    113. Re:No by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      Come back when you're actually willing to acknowledge that most people DON'T have huge medical bills.

      Oh, and you can predict exactly who will and who won't have huge medical bills?

      What, you can't?

      Saving for medical bills fairly is simple statistics. You need $(mean + x*standard deviation)(*) to keep your risk of bankruptcy below a certain threshold. That number is, unfortunately, pretty large, but everyone would have to keep that much money on hand unless they like having a higher chance of going bankrupt. To put that in perspective, if you lowball that number to just $50000, you'll end up with a sum that's in the same ball park the US GDP.

      (*) The exact calculations aren't quite that simple since the distribution isn't symmetric, but taking that into account complicates the calculations quite a bit without giving significantly different conclusions.

      My grandmother never spend a day of her life in the hospital, except for leg surgery ($8000) and her death day ($2000). My grandfather died in his room. $0.00. My aunt did the same. $0.00. My uncle fell on his head, and then he spent a day in the intensive care ($4000).

      I'm glad for you that your family is so lucky, but "try to be lucky" isn't sound advice if you're talking about more than a handful of people. And the plural of anecdote is still anecdotes, and not data, I'm afraid.

      So, how about you stop hand-picking your examples that detail pretty much the best case, and try some cases that are more on the "worse" side of the scale?

    114. Re:No by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      I think it's silly how people constantly try to eliminate every imaginable element of risk from their lives instead of just getting out there and living it.

      I want to live into old age and have a high quality of life. You may not.

      Of course playing up the neo-luddite card on slashdot gets mod points for some odd reason, because its hip for young people who have not had their first serious health crisis to think that anything that protects us in any way is part of a nanny state conspiracy run by Bill Gates and the devil.

    115. Re:No by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that this is a prime example of mistaking the model for the system.

      Welcome to modern science. When you institutionalize someone for over 20 years and never let them see the world for themselves, what do you expect them to do?

      Science graduates are to real scientists as burger flippers at MacDonalds are to a master chef.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    116. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 1

      Science graduates are to real scientists as burger flippers at MacDonalds are to a master chef.

      I'd counter that burger flippers at McDonalds have experience with real-world issues (customer service, cleaning the grill etc) that science grads don't. Other than that I concur. ;)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    117. Re:No by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Wow.

      And I thought I was radical, but your article makes me look like a quiet puppy sitting next to a roaring dinosaur: "We're officially, royally fucked. No empire can survive being rendered a permanent laughingstock." I don't think things are as bad as that, after all the market is going back up, not down.

      he banks knew they were selling crap," says a London-based trader from one of the bailed-out companies. To get AAA ratings, the Consolidated Debt Obligations (CDOs) relied not on their actual underlying assets but on crazy mathematical formulas that the banks cooked up to make the investments look safer than they really were. "They had some back room somewhere where a bunch of Indian guys who'd been doing nothing but math for God knows how many years would come up with some kind of model saying that this or that combination of debtors would only default once every 10,000 years," says one young trader who sold CDOs for a major investment bank. "It was nuts."

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    118. Re:No by Pikoro · · Score: 1

      "It's always the 'Yogurt, sprout eating motherfuckers' that get run over by a guy driving a bus who smokes 3 1/2 packs a day.

      'Sorry officer, I didn't see him, I was too busy SMOKING!'"

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    119. Re:No by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      Plus if 1 million people in the US think "my votes won't affect the election outcome" and thus don't vote, the overall affect very likely WILL affect the election.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    120. Re:No by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      Linux already runs on a pacemaker programmer, we are getting close:

      http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6482197877.html

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    121. Re:No by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      So presumably, you trust big corporates more than a government?

      YES!

      You can compete with a corporation, not so with the government ("compete" with the police and get shot, etc).

      You can refuse to do business with a corporation, not with the government.

      A corporation can be dissolved, not so with the government.

      No company is going to have information on every aspect of your life, but the government can.

      Yes, I know Google and First Advantage, and the 3 credit bureaus (Equifax, Trans Union and Experian) come close...

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    122. Re:No by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

      You can compete with a corporation, not so with the government ("compete" with the police and get shot, etc).

      It's called "form a party and try to get elected".

      You can refuse to do business with a corporation, not with the government.

      Emigrate. Ok, you'll have to deal with a different government then, but it's the same for corporations.

      A corporation can be dissolved, not so with the government.

      It's possible, but only rarely done.

      No company is going to have information on every aspect of your life, but the government can.

      You're underestimating companies here.

    123. Re:No by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      You couldn't be more wrong.

      The US spent 2.4 trillion on healthcare in 2008. with 304m population that is nearly 8k per year for every man, woman and child. Compare that to the paltry 16 million new vehicles sold in 2007. They would have to average $150k each to add up to the same amount as healthcare spending.

      Even if you subtract out the 30% wasted on private insurance overhead the average person spends quite a bit more for healthcare than cars. In fact, the average US citizen spends more on healthcare than anything else except housing.

      Anecdotal evidence about your relatives are meaningless. I broke my foot last year and it cost $100k.

      You want perspective? The US spends 17% of GDP on healthcare. Please don't talk about how cheap health care is.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    124. Re:No by IorDMUX · · Score: 1

      I think it's silly how people constantly try to eliminate every imaginable element of risk from their lives instead of just getting out there and living it.

      As someone with family members who have Type I diabetes (and may, myself), I would love for a computer that could automatically monitor blood sugar and adjust insulin accordingly (and maybe sound a warning if something gets too far out of whack) so that I/we could, as you put it, just get out there and live life.

      With diabetes, if you are not closely monitored--either manually or by a machine--then going out and living/eating/acting as you wish produces an unacceptable level of risk. If you slowly and carefully monitor everything manually, you now have a significant impact to your daily life.

      So yes, I would love to have a machine take care of the mundane, daily worries of such a condition. It's not about eliminating every possible risk in life (I enjoy climbing and hiking, and hope to continue to do so even if I am diagnosed with Type I diabetes), but about using the technology that we have to be able to push some things into the background so that we can focus on what *we* decide.

      --
      >> Standing on head makes smile of frown, but rest of face also upside down.
    125. Re:No by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      What do I do when my Windows PC won't stay running for a full 60 seconds?

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    126. Re:No by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Spanking" only describes the location of the blows. That is to say, you can't spank a child's face, but you can spank the butt until it bleeds. It doesn't adequately describe force, duration, what implements were used.

      Therefore, to me, "spanking" should not be legal or illegal. But leaving bruises, or welts that last more than, say, an hour, probably should be.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

    127. Re:No by speedtux · · Score: 1

      "You are ineligible, because we have no record that you earned money during 2007 or 2008."

      Did you or your employer pay your unemployment insurance? If not, you aren't eligible for unemployment benefits, no matter how much you earned.

      If I earned no money, why'd you tax me almost 40,000 dollars these last two years???

      Those were federal and state taxes; they don't pay for your unemployment benefits.

      Now imagine that same idiot bureaucracy running my healthcare

      No need to imagine, just look at US government health care (military, Congress, etc.), as well as other nations: government-run health care is cost effective and actually works.

    128. Re:No by damburger · · Score: 1

      Right, because healthcare in the US is soooo much better. My future mother-in-law had a bout of tachycardia in florida - didn't even stay overnight in hospital - and ended up paying £2000 for basic treatement.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    129. Re:No by damburger · · Score: 1

      Yes, if only there were some tried and tested system where the amount you paid for medical care was based on, oh I don't know, a reasonable percentage of your income perhaps?

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    130. Re:No by againjj · · Score: 1

      I find the idea of having my physiology constantly monitored by a computer

      (suppresses Big Brother comment)

      I fail to see how electronic monitoring would imply Big Brother. Right now, the government does not have general access to my medical records, and it would seem that making those records more copious due to electronic monitoring would not change anything.

    131. Re:No by taiwanjohn · · Score: 1

      Obviously it's too soon to apply the "permanent" label to anything just yet. On the other hand, I'm not sure how much "long-term" confidence I'd put in the recent gains on the Dow Jones either... We're in uncharted territory here.

      Anyway, if you thought the Matt Taibi piece was "radical" then you'll love Jim Kunstler's blog...

      http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/

      Enjoy, ;-)

      --jrd

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    132. Re:No by ultranova · · Score: 1

      I tried to get my university physics lecturers to explain how they got from "the formula breaks if we try to do anything infinitely precisely" to "everything exists in a magic state of maybe unless we look at it at which point it makes up its mind".

      Wikipedia to the rescue :). The second and third paragraph explain the physical mechanism.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    133. Re:No by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Still, continuous monitoring of your heart rate is far more useful. You could have a serious heart condition and your pulse will still look normal in most random tests. When it starts to show abnormalities is when you want to be alerted and that's what an implant would do.

      I dunno, my pulse is unsteady, yet I seem to be in fine shape. Bum-bum-BUM-bum--bum-BUM-bum-bum... It's annoying sometimes late at night, when I can feel it switch from one rate to another without bothering to speed up or slow down gradually. So, basically, one of these would be throwing alerts constantly.

      Besides, you don't need an implant to monitor your heart rate; even some wristwatches nowadays come with pulse monitoring.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    134. Re:No by Bobb9000 · · Score: 1

      I'm genuinely curious what you mean by that. Do you mean something along the lines of what I was suggesting, that any government-imposed limit on individual behavior is tyrannical? Or is it something more complex? Your sig suggests to me that you don't oppose all authoritative interference in individuals' lives - but then again, the death penalty can be imposed by individuals or a mob, if you're looking at it from a strictly justice-related, not government, perspective.

      Mostly, I'm concerned that we're just arguing past each other's individually defined terms. If you believe that all government interference is tyrannical, but also either unavoidable or better than the alternatives, then I would suggest we're not actually disagreeing; we just have different views on what it means to be free.

      --
      Bobb9000 - raised by the wolves,
      Oxford education as phrased by the wolves.
    135. Re:No by ultranova · · Score: 1

      This is purely psychological. The fact that the populous get to pick one of two potential dictators doesn't mean that they have any say in the running of the country.

      This gets us to the wonderful concept of division of powers, which exists precisely to ensure that no one gets dictatorial power. You know, the thing about Executive, Legislative and Judiciary branches of government being separate?

      And don't complain about having only two choices. Nothing stops you from nominating a third, fourth or even fifth candidate. You might not get much support for them, especially if they're from the lunatic fringe, but that's the nasty thing about living in a free society: people might make the decisions they want, rather than the ones you want. The damn sheep!

      They just think they do because they had the option to vote, and so they don't feel entitled to muster up a coup when the government screws them over.

      The whole point of elections is to have a bloodless coup every few years. You don't have to do the whole storm the castle with torches and pitchforks -thing, because you can simply vote against the incumbent come election day. It's much cleaner that way.

      Of course, in order to get the incumbent out of office, you have to have popular support for someone else; but that's generally true of revolutions. He stays in power after elections? Well, then you never had any chance of dethroning him with violence either, unless you figured you'd capture power from a well-liked governor and bestowed it onto someone you wanted instead - in other words, became a dictator yourself.

      TL;DR: grow up.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    136. Re:No by Grizzled+Old+Scout · · Score: 1

      How in the blue blazes of hell does monitoring status = living in a big plastic bubble? Nothing would prevent a user from both a) having quick access to his or her physiological status AND b) "getting out there".

      Monitor != protect.

    137. Re:No by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Forced participation is my main complaint; I don't like being forced to do anything. That's the opposite of freedom.

      Very few people like being forced to do anything. However, the price of living in a society is that you can't always have your own way. And I notice you have certainly used the opportunities provided by said society to, for example, gather $500,000 in a bank account.

      That's the problem with libertarians and their ilk: they want all the benefits of a society, but don't want to pay the price. You'd think Somalia would attract them like flies, if they were really serious about not wanting any government.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    138. Re:No by FleaPlus · · Score: 1

      One word to disprove your post: Sumo

      Not quite:

      http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aTcgvBD7ty.0&refer=home

      One sumo wrestler found another way to melt off the pounds. Konishiki, whom fans call ``the Dump Truck'' and who was the all- time heaviest competitor at more than 600 pounds, underwent gastric bypass surgery last month.

    139. Re:No by trytoguess · · Score: 1

      Well I think China is the popular example of an evil totalitarian state becoming less so (slowly).

    140. Re:No by Alcoholist · · Score: 1

      Government stuff aside, why is knowing your body's 'status' so important? Are you worried about something? Hooked up to the sensors, fretting over every little heartbeat, waiting for the inevitable end. Hardly seems like a great way to live a life.

      --
      Bibo Ergo Sum.
    141. Re:No by fractoid · · Score: 1
      These two paragraphs?

      In quantum mechanics, a particle is described by a wave. The position is where the wave is concentrated and the momentum is the wavelength. The position is uncertain to the degree that the wave is spread out, and the momentum is uncertain to the degree that the wavelength is ill-defined.

      The only kind of wave with a definite position is concentrated at one point, and such a wave has an indefinite wavelength. Conversely, the only kind of wave with a definite wavelength is an infinite regular periodic oscillation over all space, which has no definite position. So in quantum mechanics, there are no states that describe a particle with both a definite position and a definite momentum. The more precise the position, the less precise the momentum.

      (Emphasis mine). I read that as "the wave is the way our model represents the wave". Going from "the waveform in our model can be used to make predictions about the particle's behaviour" to "the particle is physically a wave" is the step I have problems with.

      This is still a better explanation than "the maths says so *waves hands*", though. :)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    142. Re:No by Splintax · · Score: 1

      You say private insurance companies make profit like it's a bad thing. All private companies exist to make profit.

      Those in favour of public health insurance argue that the benefits of public health insurance (overall better public health, which ultimately reduces the total cost of healthcare and congestion in the healthcare system) outweigh the costs (the inability to opt-out). I'm inclined to agree with them, but I haven't really researched the topic enough to have much certainty in my decision.

    143. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When private industry gives you customer-supported healthcare, the industry also has the right to run your life.

      So, which is better? Vote with representatives and laws made by a government that is by the people for the people, or vote with your hard earned cash and hope you have more votes than the next guy who wants their way over yours.

    144. Re:No by atraintocry · · Score: 1

      Our government still funds a large part of our healthcare (basically half). Both halves, the part we pay directly and the part our taxes pay, go to insurance companies that are taking a profit off the top.

      I agree with you on principle, however...we will have to do what we can to guard our civil liberties, but in terms of nanny-state BS, we've already lost that one a long time ago anyway. I pay an extra two dollars for a pack of cigarettes, because the state gets to build revenue by targeting undesirables, and sell it as a way to lower tax money spent on health care. In April the federal tax goes up to 61 cents. And obviously Uncle Sam's gotta look over his nieces and nephews when it comes to pot smoking.

      So that logic is already used heavily because we do in fact pay for health care out of taxes. Roughly the same as the UK does, but then we pay the same amount again directly. I'm not a nanny-stater but something's gotta give.

    145. Re:No by atraintocry · · Score: 1

      That's a very succinct and accurate way of putting it.

    146. Re:No by sonicmerlin · · Score: 1

      Why would you need to use physical force to harm your child? Can't you find a better way to teach him right from wrong? It's that attitude of 'well he'll associate negative feelings with doing this' that is so primitive and backwards. He'll associate *getting caught* with negative feelings, not doing what he wants to do. But of course in the US people teach their children to hunt animals using weapons, and somehow consider it different from terrorists teaching children to use weapons for future use against foreign armies.

    147. Re:No by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm not a proponent of spanking. Your beef is with the guy I responded to.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

    148. Re:No by tabrnaker · · Score: 1

      you apparently don't understand how genes work. You must be american where the blame always lies outside.

    149. Re:No by tabrnaker · · Score: 1
      My guess is that everybody that wants a technological solution to monitoring their bodies is because they have no understanding of how their bodies work, and how their bodies 'communicate' to them.

      I hypothesize that it has to do with the big push towards 'objectivity is god' that people have forgotten that their own perceptions and sensations are equally as important.

      Learn enough meditation and body awareness and you can even monitor the pressure in your eyes. The funniest are the people with red faces that don't understand why they have hypertension... life is so funny some times.

    150. Re:No by tabrnaker · · Score: 1

      You're one of those scaredy-cats the insurance companies love right?

    151. Re:No by tabrnaker · · Score: 1
      Do you complain just to complain?

      Seriously?

      Why are americans so attached to gluttony? (and the rest of the 'deadly' sins?).

      Do you really think 'Liberty' and 'Freedom' is being able to kill yourself out of ignorance?

      There's a reason different cultures have different diseases, and a reason why 'western' diseases are spreading to other countries.

    152. Re:No by tabrnaker · · Score: 1
      You can't claim that without sufficient data. Ever think that perhaps the people are doing something to cause the autoimmune disorder?

      The question to ask is what is the body trying to accomplish. Be specific, killing the person isn't specific, removing material between joints is better. Why would the body remove material between joints? Why is it that learning yoga and how to move through extension can eliminate things like arthritis?

      One of the travesties of knowledge is seeing physiology and biology books all claiming that muscles do work through contraction. Although it's funny to see people who believe that trying to do things like handstands, so much effort and huffing and puffing going on! When you expand your muscles and joints handstand is an effortless breeze.

      Americans won't understand this until they get rid of all their 'cool' 'individual defining' postures. Nothing uglier than watching american group gymnastics where everybodies posture is different so everything looks uncordinated.

    153. Re:No by tabrnaker · · Score: 1
      If you can't tell what chronic high blood sugar feels like, then you probably have it. I can't believe the amount of processed sugars americans consume! ditto with the high blood pressure.

      You clearly lack awareness that western medicine understands pretty much zip about nutrition.

      Why do you think cosmetics is such a big industry? You have products to make your hair look healthy and shiny because your diet doesn't provide the proper nutrients, ditto with your skin. Deodarants to cover up all the toxic stuff your body is attempting to eliminate through your skin because your elimination organs are overloaded. Toothpaste to clean your teeth because your diet rots them etc...

      It's pretty sad when you can't even get diets for pets right and they start inheriting all the western diseases. Pet toothpaste? WTF??

      You do realize that almost all western diseases are due to diet, don't you? Nope, you clearly lack awareness. Wake up!!

    154. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with the general concept of this kind of system - enough so that I started a company offshore to create such a system nearly 10 years ago and we been busily working to produce exactly this kind of system in mass quantity. It's been in the works for nearly a decade now - the biotech parts take a bit longer than traditional electronics. And unlike most other efforts in the traditional medical, pharma, biotech establishments, our system explicitly has cost as a primary and critical design feature.

      It's the appeal to fear to encourage adopting this kind of technology I find offensive. There are more than enough upside arguments that have nothing to do with fear that can be made - it's pathetic that this is the best they could think of. As the base note says, it panders to undesirable fear. I also don't want to be in a bubble, unless I've decided to be in that bubble and I have 100% control of the bubble.

      My personal opinion is that such pandering and the fear itself is the one trait that is probably responsible for >80% of the US economic, technological, political problems today: an insanely unrealistic expectation of zero or impossibly low risk, largely fostered by fear caused by ignorance and laziness. It's sheeple marketing. It's evil.

      There's also lots of privacy reasons to support this general concept - I personally would never put my personal health information on a centralized server or server complex like Google Health. The technology is available to drive costs to crazy low levels and yet incorporate plenty of computing power. There's absolutely no reason why health data obtained with this type of system should ever *need* to go to a central server at all even for 1st or 2nd level diagnostic medical triage. Anyone who tells you differently is either lying to you or isn't smart enough to do a decent systems design.

      I'll keep my own medical information under my own direct control, thank you very much! Need to know basis only, thank you very much! Most other people and all commercial and governmental organizations have absolutely no "need to know". That's how I treat it all medical information right now.

      It's possible to screw up the implementation, however. That's why it's important to ask how privacy is dealt with in such a system. If you have to rely on others to use the system at all, it should raise deep suspicions - we've certainly seen how assaults on personal liberties never stay within the scope of the apologists' promises. Only direct personal control, just like with personal computers, can provide any real guarantees.

    155. Re:No by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      Ever think that perhaps the people are doing something to cause the autoimmune disorder?

      That's irrelevant. Whatever factors lead to the autoimmune disorder, the fact is that the host's immune system attacks the host. That's a bug, even if there is an outside agent maliciously causing the bug to manifest.

    156. Re:No by WhiteDragon · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but DOES IT RUN LINUX?

      With implanted medical monitors, LINUX RUNS YOU!

      http://dir.salon.com/story/tech/feature/2002/08/28/0wnz0red/print.html

      --
      Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
    157. Re:No by tabrnaker · · Score: 1
      No, it's not. I'm talking about internal factors and you keep referring to the cause as being external.

      Think about it, is it possible the body is actually functioning normally?

      I used to have arthritis. Once i changed how i used my body, the arthritis went away. It's a usage problem, like somebody who drives with their foot on the brake and the gas at the same time.

      The body is designed to adapt to change, that isn't a bug. The fact that out of ignorance we cause it to destroy itself is operator error. Or we cause it to add material as in bone spurs. Bone spurs and arthritis are two sides of the same coin.

  2. Great by JoshuaZ · · Score: 1

    As soon as this technology is available I expect my mother will want me to have it on all the time so she can make sure that I'm not sick. I'm guessing I'm not the only person here worried about that possible development.

    1. Re:Great by Quantos · · Score: 1

      That's a mothers job, well, they think it is anyway.

      --
      Some people are only alive because it's against the law for me to hunt them down and kill them.
    2. Re:Great by unlametheweak · · Score: 1

      It would be good for your mother to know.

      Indeed. If your heart rate is going too fast then she will know you are looking at dirty pictures on the Internet, and so she won't have to deal with the unreliable Internet Filters that are out there. If your heart rate is going too slow then she'll know you've been drinking and can ground you. It is not just a health tool, it can be a good parenting tool, as well as something that can be used by employers and insurance companies to keep your premiums down (and their profit margins up). I'm sure any restrictive privacy laws will be amended to ensure this technology can be exploited for the betterment of society and our corporate world.

  3. And the fine print.... by SIR_Taco · · Score: 4, Funny

    "This new technology is sponsored and funded by:
    Your friendly health and life insurance company, constantly finding new and innovative ways to make sure we never have to pay you a dime since 1666."

    --
    I say don't drink and drive, you might spill your drink. Before you get behind the wheel just stop and think.
    1. Re:And the fine print.... by raddan · · Score: 1

      Hey, if that means that greed motivates someone to make sure, e.g., my couch doesn't explode into an uncontrolled bonfire when I drop my cigarette onto it, then that's a good thing, isn't it? Ever heard of Underwriters Laboratories? You generally don't think of those guys are trying to fuck us over, but this is in fact an organization whose sole purpose is to reduce insurance claims through better engineering.

      Sure, insurance companies are scumbags, but aren't you thinking about this a little bit backward?

    2. Re:And the fine print.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wooosh!

    3. Re:And the fine print.... by jc42 · · Score: 1

      "This new technology is sponsored and funded by:
      Your friendly health and life insurance company, constantly finding new and innovative ways to make sure we never have to pay you a dime since 1666."

      For the benefit of those who didn't hear the show, last week NPR had an interesting interview with Karen Tumulty on just this topic. It was about her brother's problems with his insurance company when he started having kidney problems. Part of the story was that the insurance investigators got access to his medical tests, and they found a slight anomaly in one test a few years earlier that the doctors didn't consider significant at the time, but which the insurance company said indicated the kidney disease. Since he was insured by a different policy when that test was done, it means the disease was a "pre-existing condition" for the current policy, so they didn't have to cover it.

      This is rapidly becoming a serious problem in the US. The more detailed your medical monitoring is, the more likely that the insurers will collect your money, and they refuse coverage due to a precursor that showed up once far in the past.

      Of course, in the long run, the health insurers will shoot themselves in their collective feet, as health insurance slowly ceases to cover anything, and it will become pointless to pay for insurance that doesn't cover anything. Then the only people with medical coverage will be those able to pay the million-dollar charges for treating minor ailments.

      (We're not quite there yet, but it's easy enough to be a prophet in this subject area. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  4. We've got along well enough without by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not sure the constant worry about the fluctuating read-out would help people.

    Besides that's one more system to be abused and used as an excuse to exclude you from something.

    1. Re:We've got along well enough without by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why not?

      Our servers and networks have continuous monitoring. Sure, sometimes you get some strange read-outs and "spikes" in the data but overall you can track trends and be on the lookout for pending disasters.

      So while we got along well enough without continuous monitoring, imagine how much better we could be with it.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:We've got along well enough without by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      And if you don't get a job because your boss doesn't like your body report then what?

    3. Re:We've got along well enough without by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      You're assuming my boss would know that I even have such a device...

      No. This data is for me and only me. It's not for my company, insurance, government, or anyone else for that matter. The only person other than myself to get this data would be my doctor. Even then, he/she would have to ask my explicit permission. We are talking about some very intimate knowledge about myself here. I literally guard it with my life.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    4. Re:We've got along well enough without by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      Your working under the assumption it would be that way.

      People can be subject to drug tests and physicals before taking on a job already. If basically having a full medical check-up is readily available it would be silly to think that employers aren't going to want to see that.

      Sure you can object but the job will go to someone else who doesn't object. I don't think it's that outrageous to think that most people wouldn't object to it either because it's quite apparent most people give out more information than they should about themselves and unfortunately have surrendered more rights to the government than they should have.

    5. Re:We've got along well enough without by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Blame your country not the the technology for inappropriate abuse.

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    6. Re:We've got along well enough without by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Which is sad. I mean, here we have the potential of a great tool for improving our personal health only for it to abused by political and economic entities.

      Part of me agrees with you. We shouldn't use this technology because of the slippery slope we will all inevitably go down. The other part of me says "fuck em", I will be ever vigilant and not allow myself to abused by the system. So in a manor of speaking, we have let our government and society become an oppressive environment. I guess that in lays the real hazard to our health above and beyond anything else.

      Monitoring not required to make that diagnosis.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    7. Re:We've got along well enough without by SIR_Taco · · Score: 1

      You're assuming my boss would know that I even have such a device...

      The USB port at the base of your skull certainly wouldn't give it away.

      --
      I say don't drink and drive, you might spill your drink. Before you get behind the wheel just stop and think.
    8. Re:We've got along well enough without by mail2345 · · Score: 1

      And yet.

      They will still get it.

      The doctor gives it to the hospital.

      The manufacturer embeds a "call home" device.

    9. Re:We've got along well enough without by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      And much like Windows UAC prompts you learn to ignore those notices ... until one day you drop dead from a heart attack that you've been warned about via sms to the brain for months.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    10. Re:We've got along well enough without by perryizgr8 · · Score: 1

      yeah?
      well we got along quite fine without the bulb too, and also without the pc. that does not mean that its bad to have a bulb or pc.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    11. Re:We've got along well enough without by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what else is new? As soon as it hits any database this info is no longer yours and your new insurance will ask for it in order to deny you more coverage.

    12. Re:We've got along well enough without by Dhalka226 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The difference is that in most cases, the person keeping an eye on all those server and network monitors is actually trained. At the very least, they have enough technical knowledge about the subjects in hand that they can make an educated decision as to whether it's worth waking the grumpy sysadmin to come down to the office or whether the problem can wait until morning.

      This is more likely to be read by a bunch of amateurs concerned by any fluctuation in any reading, and then running to their "sysadmin" twice a week to see what's wrong when the answer is that nothing is wrong; sometimes things just fluctuate. Not only is that going to annoy, distract and potentially overwhelm doctors, but it's going to flood their offices with pointless appointments and have a much greater chance of squeezing out somebody who legitimately needs to be there.

      It kind of reminds me of Dr. House from the tv show: He hates full body scans, because he says you'll always find a half dozen unrelated things wrong with the patient that now you have to treat and you're likely no closer to figuring out what their actual problem was. All other concerns aside, this is very likely going to be the same thing.

    13. Re:We've got along well enough without by flynn23 · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Health care costs have spiraled out of control and there's every reason to believe this will be the next industry in line for a DC bailout. Don't you find it disturbing that you have more gages for performance/operation of your car than your own body? Maybe being able to see how choices impact your "vehicle" might be one of the keys to lowering costs of health care for yourself and society.

  5. I've wondered that by jmnugent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ..for a pretty long time actually. I dont want it because I'm some kind of hypochondriac, I just think it would be cool to be able to monitor my daily rhythms. After a while you'd get an idea of what a baseline reading for any normal day was,.. and knowing that information would make you better informed about how your eating/drinking/drug use/whatever affects your body. Better yet,.. when you go to see the doctor, he can look back through your prior week or two of diagnostics and it might help him figure out whats wrong. Imagine trying to troubleshoot a computer where you had no Log files or any historical data. Possible? yes. Faster and better fixes when you have historical data?.. absolutely. (and it could help you catch something small before it becomes a bigger problem)

    1. Re:I've wondered that by tabrnaker · · Score: 1

      Or you can just increase the awareness which you live your everyday life, that includes the 'interior' life which the west tends to ignore in favor of the external life. A balanced life is a happy life.

  6. The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

    >>>Years from now people will look back and find it unbelievable that...malfunctions were not being continuously monitored

    I have my doubts. It costs a lot of money to install monitors inside a human being, and most people don't earn enough money to pay the cost (and neither does the government, which also relies on people's earnings). In fact most cars or computer or televisions don't come with monitors for the same reason, so lack of monitoring is actually quite common.

    Also people are replaceable. We have 6 billion of them, with new ones constantly being produced to replace the broken ones. After all, no one lives forever. What's the point of spending a million dollars installing electronics in a body if that body is doomed to expire? It's roughly equivalent to spending $10,000 to fix an old PC, when instead you could just get a new one to replace it. As someone who believes in eternity, I don't consider this life so great that I want to try to hang-on forever. The sooner I die the sooner I go to the Elysian Fields, or Paradise, or whatever lies beyond, and thereby make room for children and grandchildren to run the planet.

    And finally, what exactly would these monitors tell us? "You have clogged arteries that will soon cause a brain or heart attack, but unfortunately we don't have a cure, so prepare to meet your maker." Gee, that was real helpful.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    1. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you shouldn't be making any plans for eternity just yet. Maybe wait 'til after you're dead, because they'll make fuck all difference beforehand.

    2. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      And finally, what exactly would these monitors tell us? "You have clogged arteries that will soon cause a brain or heart attack, but unfortunately we don't have a cure, so prepare to meet your maker."

      You know, I would like to know that too. But the system could also tell me "Blood pressure too high, consult a doctor or take your pills (if already prescribed)". And no, I do not want to constantly interrupt whatever I am doing to check my blood pressure, better that the system could tell me when something is about to go wrong (so I interrupt my activities then and not hundreds of times before). Yes, I prefer interrupts and not polling.

    3. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      Also people are replaceable. We have 6 billion of them, with new ones constantly being produced to replace the broken ones.

      Yeah, but the replacement parts are expensive, vary in quality, and don't come in standard configurations, so you have to keep re-tuning things. Besides, there's all those political issues to consider. They keep telling people to "reduce, reuse, recycle", but I have yet to see this implemented for 'broken' vagrants and retarded children.

      After all, no one lives forever. What's the point of spending a million dollars installing electronics in a body if that body is doomed to expire?

      Your second sentence is one small step toward solving the problem in your first sentence.

      As someone who believes in eternity, I don't consider this life so great that I want to try to hang-on forever. The sooner I die the sooner I go to...

      I have no problem with that, but other people have different priorities and ethical systems, and you should respect them as well.

    4. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>>>As someone who believes in an afterlife, I don't consider this life so great that I want to try to hang-on forever.

      >>other people have different priorities and ethical systems, and you should respect them as well.

      That's fine. You can be atheist or agnostic or whatever belief you want to follow. That's called liberty. Now please respect MY liberty, and stay out of my wallet. I was the one who sweated/labored to earn that money, not you. You have no right to take it from me.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by enantiomer2000 · · Score: 1

      don't be stupid. This wouldn't be installed if it cost a million per person. Your over exaggerating to make your point and it is ridiculous. This could have to get down to thousands (or even 10's of thousands) to be economical. The fact of the matter is, at that price point, it would SAVE the insurance companies a lot of money. The really expensive insurance claims are the ones that could have been caught and avoided early.

    6. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by raddan · · Score: 1

      It matters less how much it costs. What matters more is how much it saves you.

      Let's take fluoridation. It costs (according to Wikipedia) $0.93 per person per year. There are roughly 250 million people in the United States, so-- this is a lot of money!

      But fluoridation also saves an enormous amount of money (about $60 per tooth surface, in the worst case, again according to Wikipedia), when you factor in money spent repairing cavity-ridden teeth, productivity lost due to said teeth, and personal suffering because of those teeth. It also allows us eat a much wider variety of foods (generally foods of lesser nutritional value) because we don't have to worry about our teeth immediately rotting out of our heads when we eat them.

      My gut feeling is that there is no question that, in the long run, constant health monitoring would save us money. We're scientists here, right? More data is always better than less.

    7. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      You can be atheist or agnostic or whatever belief you want to follow.

      Almost every faith on earth has reconciled itself with modern medical treatment, even though it gives us unnaturally long lives. I don't think wanting to tack on an extra year or two (or making a few years healthier) is going to be troubling to most people, religious or not.

      Now please respect MY liberty, and stay out of my wallet. I was the one who sweated/labored to earn that money, not you. You have no right to take it from me.

      When did I say that I wanted anything that belongs to you?

    8. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>I don't think wanting to tack on an extra year or two

      That's fine but at what cost. Is an extra two years worth $500,000 cost? I don't think so. I'd rather just accept my mortality, and pass that money to my children and grandchildren (preferably as a trust for education).

      >>>When did I say that I wanted anything that belongs to you?

      You didn't have to. The fact is that the government already takes my money & gives it to other people to buy medical care or devices. And I'm sick of it. I don't work my ass off to give it to somebody else

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    9. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>This could have to get down to thousands (or even 10's of thousands) to be economical.

      Still more than I want to spend. I'd rather save the money and pass it onto my children/grandchildren after I die, rather than waste it on myself.

      >>>the insurance companies

      Scammers. No different than AIG or Congress; I don't want to have anything to do with insurance companies.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    10. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And finally, what exactly would these monitors tell us?

      Well Mr Jones, I'm having problems diagnosing your problem. What I can tell you is it seems you drank 36 units of alcohol, took two E's and smoked two packet of cigarettes and three joints on friday night. You continued saturday morning with a curry and 3 cans of lager for breakfast and then spent the next several days and nights speeding your tits off and partying. Unfortuanately your biomonitors broke down from carcinogens in thier environment so I'm at a loss as to be able to tell you why you are experiencing these chest pains. Take two asprin and report to your local biomonitor servicing surgery.

    11. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Not spending money is how you save money. Rather than spends tens of thousands of dollars on these "built-in sensors" that might extend my life a mere pointless 2 years, I'd rather not spend it at all. That way it could be used for something better than keeping grandpa alive. It could be given to my children or grandchildren after I pass away, or to Boystown to help other orphaned children.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    12. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by raddan · · Score: 1

      This is simply not true. Say you notice that one of the load-bearing walls in your house is starting to crumble. Do you: 1) Spend money to repair it, or 2) Save money by doing nothing Rational people would do #1, even though it costs more in the short term, because it will save you more in the long term-- i.e., you do not have to build a new house when it collapses.

      Preventative health care is the same thing. E.g., a gym membership can save you a significant amount of money in the long run, not to mention, by maintaining your health, you increase the quality of your life.

      Why are people so opposed to knowing the answers around here? I'd pay to know this information about myself.

    13. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      I really doubt it will cost $1M per person.

      I'm guessing that hooking someone up with one of these will be closer to $1000, if we're talking about within the next ten years. If we're talking twenty years on, perhaps $100, or $1000 for a much more elaborate sensing network. Nor do I think that the sensors will require invasive surgery. A lot could probably be learned by sensors put right under the skin.

      As for your "we can't do anything about whatever problems we find" argument, it's simply wrong. We know what to do in the event of clogging arteries. We know what to do in the event that we discover early-stage cancer. There are a handful of diseases that we know how to detect, but have no way to treat, but the ones that are the most frequent (heart disease, cancer, diabetes) are ones that we know how to prevent and manage. Early detection of these issues would pay for the equipment, maintenance, and monitoring probably a dozen times over.

      Sure, if you step back far enough, everyone is replaceable. But step back a bit further, and our entire species, our entire planet, our entire universe might be replaceable. I feel irreplaceable to myself, and to the few people willing to put up with me. So I don't see the argument as a compelling one.

      In closing, do you want to be Bluetooth-enabled or not? C'mon man, everything is better with Bluetooth.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

    14. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      Is an extra two years worth $500,000 cost? I don't think so.

      Not to you, and that's fine. But it might to me, and that should be OK too.

      When did I say that I wanted anything that belongs to you? -> You didn't have to.

      Making random assumptions about other people does make conversations interesting, but not very useful.

    15. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by tabrnaker · · Score: 1
      You do know that people will keep 'taking' your money until you realize what an ass you are and that you aren't ONLY an individual, and you start giving it freely right?

      Sucks to be you.

    16. Re:The cost is too high, and frankly not worth it. by tabrnaker · · Score: 1
      The only problem with your example is that flouride was a toxic chemical that companies needed to pay to have disposed of.

      The other problem is that studies show that only topical application is useful and any internal use is useless and toxic.

      Third, the only thing you gain is the ability to make yourself diabetic without the warning signs of your teeth rotting.

      If you really think fluoridation is in your best interests, you don't understand american companies.

  7. Our body has a monitoring system built in by hwyhobo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Did you ever stop to think how silly and also how dangerous it is to live our lives with absolutely no monitoring of our body's medical status?

    Actually, our bodies provide lots of feedback. It's just that we are never taught how to listen to those signals. It's usually after the injury occurs that we learn to listen on our own. You would be amazed how well many diabetics can tell their sugar level at any given moment. It doesn't take more than a month of measuring to learn that. I know I may sound heretical on a geek board, but I would consider that skill more vital to many people than calculus.

    --
    End anonymous moderation and posting on /.
    1. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by khallow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that our bodies don't provide that feedback to anyone else. And people infamously either pay too little or too much attention to those signals.

    2. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by the_one(2) · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up please!
      This technology could potentially almost eliminate routine checkups IMHO. Not to mention the potential good the statistics could do the field of medicine. Of course slashdot normally prefers to focus on the negatives rather than the positives.

    3. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by Eil · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I know I may sound heretical on a geek board, but I would consider that skill more vital to many people than calculus.

      Fun game:

      Ask your friends what the current stats are on their WoW character. Strength, agility, stamina, intelligence, etc.

      Then ask them what their resting heart rate is. (Them, not the character.)

    4. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by Shard.Oglass666 · · Score: 1

      I've got this computer thingy sitting on my desk that could potentially monitor me 24/7. With the right program(s) installed and some widgets that could be worn on my body, it could informe me if my physical stats alter (or fall excessively out of spec.) It would then be up to me if I wanted to share this information with a doctor or others.

    5. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by Shefwed82 · · Score: 1

      I cannot tell you the number of times when I have thought that I have had low blood sugar, only to test and determine that I have high blood sugar. And over the years you can get so used to either high or low blood sugar that you don't even recognize it anymore. One of the things that they tell you on day 1 of being a diabetic is to not trust your feelings. Trust the glucose tester.

    6. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by hwyhobo · · Score: 1

      I appreciate your experience, but I have to say that mine is the opposite. Yes, occasionally I miscalculate, but most of the time I can amuse myself by guessing to within a few points.

      It could be because in the last several years I have managed to keep it within a fairly narrow range (50-60 average daily spread with infrequent jump beyond that).

      --
      End anonymous moderation and posting on /.
    7. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by slash.dt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You would be amazed how well many diabetics can tell their sugar level at any given moment. It doesn't take more than a month of measuring to learn that.

      And you would also be amazed at how often people whose life depends on knowing their glucose levels get it wrong. I'm pretty good at estimating mine on the low (immediate danger) side, but not so good as estimating when my blood glucose is high (long term danger)side.

      I'm surprised that the article doesn't mention continous blood glucose monitors which are already readily available - ok, you only implant them for 3-7 days at a time but that will get better. So instead of all the vapourware being mentioned in the article they could have talked about a product which is already here.

    8. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by spencerogden · · Score: 1

      To use your example of diabetics, I'm sure many people could learn to better listen to their bodies, especially with a training aid such as a real time read our of what they are trying to listen to.

      I'm sure many people have certain "feelings" in their body, either moods, or energy levels, that are familiar to them, but they can't correlate it with hydration level, blood sugar, or 10s of other things that might affect how your body feels.

      But with a read out, we could learn that "oh, that feeling means a lower than normal (for them) level of testosterone", with out looking at the meter, and know that its time to get some exercise in.

      But calibrating your "feelings" is very difficult at present, with out lots of trial and error, or training in sport. This might lead to wider availability of an athlete's level of body awareness.

    9. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by hwyhobo · · Score: 1

      But with a read out, we could learn that "oh, that feeling means a lower than normal (for them) level of testosterone", with out looking at the meter, and know that its time to get some exercise in

      That is exactly what I am talking about. You have to correlate the measurements to the signals your body is sending you. As I said in my first post, it takes some measuring, but one can learn that way.

      --
      End anonymous moderation and posting on /.
    10. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by jc42 · · Score: 1

      It would then be up to me if I wanted to share this information with a doctor or others.

      Not necessarily. Here in the US, if you want the possibility of medical treatment for most serious health problems, you have to have insurance. And you wouldn't be able to get insurance unless you gave the insurance salespeople access to your medical data.

      Also, you might not be able to get anything but a minimum-wage job without giving your employer (and their insurance investigators) access to your data.

      The poorer part of the population has been in this situation for some time, and the fraction of the population that it applies to is slowly increasing. Another decade, and it'll probably include most people like you.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    11. Re:Our body has a monitoring system built in by tabrnaker · · Score: 1

      That's sad. Then again not knowing how to interpret your body is how people get diabetic in the first place.

  8. Can be counterproductive by sphealey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > "Did you ever stop to think how silly and also how dangerous
    > it is to live our lives with absolutely no monitoring of our
    > body's medical status?

    One thing you find as you get older and start having more tests, particularly if you have a doctor that likes to keep up with the latest research, is that each test you have for a specific parameter will also return results on 8-10 other parameters - that's just the way med labs are set up. And of those 8-10 parameters neither your doctor nor you intended to test at least one will be out-of-limits for your sex/age/weight/height. A little research in the latest medical data (by your doctor) or you (on the Internet) will quickly reveal that having parameter 7 out-of-limit can lead to immediate doom. Or not - the research is inconclusive.

    So what do you do now? As I said every time you have a test you are going to come back with at least 1, and maybe more, new things to be concerned about. Should you start some sort of treatment for that out-of-limit condition? What side effects should you accept for treating something that was causing you no problems? What new conditions will be revealed every year when you are tested for the consequences of taking the treatment for the last revealed problem?

    I saw in the WSJ about a year ago that the FDA was getting ready to approve 5 new reactive protein tests. Well, the c-reactive-protein test has been of some benefit in diagnosing early-stage heart disease. Maybe. Or maybe it has just increased sales of Lipitor(tm); no one is sure. What about these 5 new proteins? Should we all be tested for them? Why?

    sPh

    1. Re:Can be counterproductive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up.

      My wife is a surgical pathologist; an important rule of pathology is "Don't do a test if it will not affect therapy". In other words, you can always run lots of measurements, but you shouldn't if they aren't going to change your course of therapy.

      Every test costs the patient time, money & pain. Each test also costs the doctor/technician/lab/hospital/insurance company time, money & paperwork.

      In the evening, I watch my wife plow through patient files which are often a foot thick. (or, worse, are spread across a half-dozen different incompatable databases). The patient's condition is obscured by all this data.

    2. Re:Can be counterproductive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up. We have a saying, "if you feel healthy, you didn't visit the doctor often enough." Constantly monitoring every parameter of your body looks like a sure-fire way to develop a life-crippling case of hypochondria to me.

    3. Re:Can be counterproductive by jamstar7 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Every test costs the patient time, money & pain. Each test also costs the doctor/technician/lab/hospital/insurance company time, money & paperwork.

      Yup. Around here, medical malpractice suits are rampant, so the doctor's liability insurance goes through the roof unless they order piles of tests to cover their asses. The patient's insurance pays for them, so they bitch about unneeded tests designed to 'fish' for things to look at even closer just in case something happens and the patient's survivors decide to sue.

      End result, the lawyers make money defending and suing doctors.

      What I don't like about 24/7 realtime monitoring of me is, the extreme likelyhood (on the order of 99%+) of my insurance carrier starting to dictate my life. I've been smoking for 40 years, no cancer in sight even though cancer tends to run in my family (colon & lymph rather than lung or throat or oral), but I know damned good and well that since according to statistics, I'm 4 times more likely to get lung cancer than somebody who doesn't, my insurance will demand I stop smoking right fucking now or face cancellation. Doesn't matter that I choose to smoke, that I accept the risks. After all, I have a 0.056% chance per year of getting lung cancer (169,400 cases per year, 300 million US citizens, easy math).

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    4. Re:Can be counterproductive by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      ... my insurance will demand I stop smoking right fucking now or face cancellation. Doesn't matter that I choose to smoke ...

      I don't want them to cancel, but I do want them to jack up your rates. If you're expected health care costs do to voluntary behavior are higher them mine, it's only fair that you pay for the difference.

      After all, I have a 0.056% chance per year of getting lung cancer (169,400 cases per year, 300 million US citizens, easy math).

      Except that most lung cancer is caused by smoking, and only a fraction of Americans smoke (and it varies with age/generation, length of time smoking, etc). Your actual risk is at least twice that.

    5. Re:Can be counterproductive by lyml · · Score: 3, Insightful

      After all, I have a 0.056% chance per year of getting lung cancer (169,400 cases per year, 300 million US citizens, easy math).

      In other news shooting yourself in the face only increases chance of death by 0.1% per year. (6 million cases per year, 6 billion people in the world, easy math)

    6. Re:Can be counterproductive by Xenographic · · Score: 1

      > A little research in the latest medical data (by your doctor) or you (on the Internet) will quickly reveal that having parameter 7 out-of-limit can lead to immediate doom. Or not - the research is inconclusive.

      I thought that one of the benefits of monitoring all this crap even when you're (relatively) healthy was that we'd eventually get a better idea of which parameters were actually important and which ones are actually out of whack for our body, rather than for some hypothetical "baseline."

  9. This'll be fun by Kamrom · · Score: 1

    Once we get the bio-comp system installed, we can start letting it control introduction of the new designer drugs coming out. Then we'll be able to be fully functional supermen, until we burn out and explode. I for one welcome our new Juicer Masters.

  10. Useless and redundant by aswang · · Score: 1

    Exactly. You really don't need to see your vital signs fluctuating to know that you're having a heart attack.

    1. Re:Useless and redundant by bretticus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What? We can do an EKG and measure troponin and sometimes not know for certain whether someone had a heart attack. Many people have atypical presentations, especially women. You also have things like "chest pain" that are actually reflux, or the person could be having an anxiety attack. Sure, you may know something is wrong, but not necessarily how serious -- just take Natasha Richardson.

    2. Re:Useless and redundant by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      Pretty much, yeah. My first hints were cold sweats and a feeling that both ex-mother in laws were jumping up and down on my chest. My co-worker's first hints was watching me hit the floor in a daze.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    3. Re:Useless and redundant by eh2o · · Score: 1

      Except that a heart attack is often confused, sometimes even by doctors, with an inflamation of the shoulder.

    4. Re:Useless and redundant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too coherent of a comment, please mod down.

    5. Re:Useless and redundant by aswang · · Score: 1
      (1) Troponin measurements are only helpful when repeated over a duration of time

      (2) Even EKG changes aren't instantaneous. You'll have been having chest pain for quite some time before you start showing hyperacute T waves.

      (3) But, finally, you have to target your measurements. Standard continuous cardiorespiratory monitoring is probably going to show you an increased heart rate and increased respiratory rate. Not very helpful. Continuous cardiac monitoring doesn't have the same resolution as an EKG; you're only probably going to get useful data if the patient is actually wearing a the full-12 lead set of electrodes, and again, see (2). And continuous troponin measurements would be extraordinarily low yield. I can't imagine what it would gain you over the usual q6h measurement, nor is there a point of measuring it when you're not symptomatic.

      I can't think of anything we could've measured on Natasha Richardson that would involve a monitoring machine that she could've worn. Maybe if there were such a thing as a wearable CAT scanner, but would the radiation exposure be worth it? Probably the only thing helpful would've been continuous neuro checks, and you need a human being to do those.

    6. Re:Useless and redundant by aswang · · Score: 1

      Even then, I fail to see what you could possibly monitor continuously that would convince you that you didn't have to go to the emergency room.

    7. Re:Useless and redundant by bretticus · · Score: 1

      Oh, I completely agree with you on the MI stuff, I was just replying to the poster saying you can "feel" when you're having an acute MI. It's not so cut and dry as many might think. For continuous testing, CK-MB would probably be better than troponin since it rises faster, but the problem is it's also less specific. As far as Natasha Richardson's condition goes, I would think some kind of ICP sensor would be what you'd go with. As the hemorrhage expanded, I would think you'd see an increase. Another alternative might be a CSF red cell detector for subdural bleeds (though she had an epidural). I'm sure those are nowhere near practical with current tech, but I'm guessing more so than a portable CT ;)

    8. Re:Useless and redundant by aswang · · Score: 1
      We have the tech. You can monitor ICP continuously if you wanted to, and you could at least get a qualitative sense of the composition of someone's CSF from watching it come out of a lumbar drain. The thing is, are you really going to do a ventric or LP on everybody who falls down skiing and has a headache?

      As far as MIs, though, quite possibly the greatest factor affecting your survival is how quickly you can get carted away to the cath lab, and I can't see how continuously monitoring anything is going to get you there any sooner than just paying attention to that crushing substernal pressure radiating to your left arm and calling 911.

    9. Re:Useless and redundant by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      Even EKG changes aren't instantaneous. You'll have been having chest pain for quite some time before you start showing hyperacute T waves.

      You'll be having S-T depression on an EKG before you'll even feel angina.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
    10. Re:Useless and redundant by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      The thing is, are you really going to do a ventric or LP on everybody who falls down skiing and has a headache?

      If the first vital sign (amount of insurance + bank accounts + available credit + a percentage of the possible malpractice award for not intervening - a percentage of the malpractice awards for intervening - the cost of the doctor/facility's time) is high enough, sure.

      That's the American way.

      As far as MIs, though, quite possibly the greatest factor affecting your survival is how quickly you can get carted away to the cath lab, and I can't see how continuously monitoring anything is going to get you there any sooner than just paying attention to that crushing substernal pressure radiating to your left arm and calling 911.

      Not all heart attacks are so obvious.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  11. You can have my vital signs ... by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... when you pry them from my cold, dead body.

  12. Analysis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    my question is this. Do we have a method of effectively storing, quickly retrieving, and analyzing this data for it to be useful. The amount of data would be immense, and if we can't run real time reports on this, than it may become useless...

    1. Re:Analysis by CubicleView · · Score: 1

      Short answer is yes, a database. Taking heart rate and breathing as an example, "Real Time" isn't really necessary. Even a second by second reading for stuff like that is probably more than what's really useful. I'm sure there are several things that would benefit from more resolution, but probably not too many. It would require serious hardware etc for anything more than a few days worth of data (assuming numerous sensors) but that side of the proposal is easily doable with todays tech. And certainly doable if we've advanced enough to have developed all the other technologies required for this.

  13. Welcome to 2020 ... by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... where you're not going to die from a lot of causes that were common just ten years ago. The most common cause of death is now complications from implanting several pounds of electronics in your body, and while that's unfortunately enough to keep the mortality rate at just the same level, it's usually less painful.

    1. Re:Welcome to 2020 ... by hajus · · Score: 1

      "Oh my god, you've got NAS!!"

      -johnny mnemonic

  14. Social Implications by b4upoo · · Score: 1

    Disease is more than an individual issue. The idea of continuously updated, massive data bases can also have effects upon people who are not ill. For example a person building up to a heart attack behind the wheel of a truck is something we all need to be protected from. Perhaps we may one day be able to spot people who are about to go off the deep end with mental illness. That also might save more lives than just that of the disturbed person. And it goes without saying that illegal drug use and alcoholism could be knocked out with medical implants as well. Your body might dial 911 without you asking it to make the call.

  15. Tried that, didn't work (;-)) by davecb · · Score: 1

    As an example, the daily fluctuations in CPU utilization of hundreds of thousands of individual machines could be tracked and charted 24/7 to determine a baseline from which abnormalities and patterns could be extracted. The possibilities are enormous.

    And, just to make it more fun, the metrics they collect will be the ones the developers needed, not the ones you need to manage the system. Or, worse, the ones that are easiest to measure.

    That isn't to say that you won't be able to do some interesting statistical analyses, just that the data you really want will be buried in cubic yards of noise, or not measured at all. And when you ask for them, you'll be told that you should use what you have.

    --dave

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
  16. Just the begining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We start by using computers to monitor our health. These computers eventually become self-aware and take us over. Resistance is futile.

  17. Dangerous by thethibs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Given that the state is responsible for the cost of your health care, getting the chip won't be voluntary. Needless to say, if the monitors detected something life-threatening, they'd have to be able to send someone to help you; that means they also have to know where you are.

    We know where you are, we can read all your bio-signs, and we are mandated to protect our investment in health care. Don't run so fast. Keep it down to one orgasm. Put down that cigarette. That's your last coffee for today. Sound silly? Remember when we were silly to suggest they'd be banning smoking in bars next?

    Yah--we really look forward to having our chips installed. Am I the only one who would prefer a long painful death?

    --
    I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
    1. Re:Dangerous by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      Given that the state is responsible for the cost of your health care,

      Funny, I didn't know I was on Medicare. Coulda swore I was on Blue Cross.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    2. Re:Dangerous by thethibs · · Score: 1

      You must be American.

      --
      I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
    3. Re:Dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Give it a few years.

    4. Re:Dangerous by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      Keep it down to one orgasm.

      Stop giving them ideas! And if you have to give them ideas, don't give them that one!!!

    5. Re:Dangerous by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      So they keep telling me.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    6. Re:Dangerous by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      The only solution I can see is to force perfect transparency on the people entrusted with vital data. Also, users ought to have at least some control over what data gets collected, and whether (and to whom) it gets transmitted. The whole "let's never collect any data because somebody might misuse it" paradagm seems like a dead end to me.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  18. Islam - because the Enlightenment was overrated. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And because female circumcision is every husband's right!

  19. The possibilities are enormous. by zoomshorts · · Score: 0

    I have your enormous possibility swinging between my legs.

    Want to monitor it?

  20. I don't think so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I actually used to monitor these things myself, and I found it led to a higher level of stress and even drove me to panic attacks. Monitoring anything extensively is obsession, and an obsession can make you neglect other things, such as mental health.

  21. Will it have "remote disconnect" by Animats · · Score: 1

    We just discovered that electric meters now come with not only remote reading, but "remote disconnect".

    There will be pressure to put that into humans. Anybody who gets out of line could be "remotely disconnected".

  22. We are borg... by anthonymel · · Score: 1

    Let the assimilation begin!

  23. Good idea, but will be abused. by Kayot · · Score: 1

    Like all good idea's this one will become a nightmare for people. If you have ever use long term anti-depression drugs you know what I'm saying. Insurance companies will not insure you, nor can you get Life insurance policy's. This may save your life, but if you can't get a job or insurance, what quality of life are you going to lead. This is great for that top 5%, not only can they live longer, but they can decide if your just too high risk. Just like a neuron net, great idea, but who is in control and how much data are they allowed to have... Then years later, after they sue for the rights to have all data, your life is not just over, but that same monitoring equipment prevents suicide as well. There is no escape from hell.

    1. Re:Good idea, but will be abused. by lazy+genes · · Score: 0

      On the bright side, all the real greedy parasites that infested the healthcare system have moved to the financial sector. More at 11:00

  24. Increasing human lifespan by iqeaten · · Score: 1

    The continuous progress of research towards increasing human lifespan is of questionable benefit and certainly not grounded in models found in nature.

    Death is as important to the survival of the human race -- and, for that matter, for the survival of life on this planet. With further and further research being done to combat the natural decay and death that accompanies human life, we run the risk of selfishly hogging the planet's resources, when it would be beneficial to the species to cede it to a next generation.

    It is natural for individuals to wish to live longer lives, but it is unnatural -- and in my opinion counterproductive -- for an individual to wish all individuals live longer lives, or for a species to attempt to increase the lifespan of its members instead of concentrating on procreation, allowing nature to run its course.

    I am all for technology that helps in decreasing the pain and suffering associated with death, but continuously monitoring the human body to find conditions that are mostly natural, and that are mostly lifestyle-based, and attempt to fix them with a view to adding a few years of life put a brake on human evolution and show little regard for following nature's model in such things.

    1. Re:Increasing human lifespan by yndrd1984 · · Score: 1

      So your argument is that death is natural, so it should simply be accepted?

      And you're writing this on a plastic/metal/silicon computer connected to a global network, under artificial lights in a temperature-controlled man-made room powered by artificially generated electricity, wearing clothes made by machine out of petroleum or industrially-farmed cotton, after eating an extensively processed meal you ate with teeth that have filled cavities?

      About the only fully natural thing about the average first-world person is that they're biologically identical to their ancient ancestors, and that's not likely to last much longer.

    2. Re:Increasing human lifespan by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      "Of questionable benefit" to whom, exactly? Not to the longer-living individual. Perhaps to those who would come after, but I don't give much thought to the unconceived as individuals.

      But it sounds like you're worried about the health of the species. I think your concern is misplaced. Biological evolution is a slow process, especially when compared to the technological adaptation that has characterized our species for the last ten thousand years. I would assume that within the next hundred years,* we will essentially have control over our genetic makeup, making the old evolutionary paradigm moot.

      While in most ways I'm in favor of less artificial, industrialized lifestyles, I'm not a neo-Luddite, and extending a healthy life seems like a laudable application of technology.

      * Ray Kurzweil would probably say twenty-five, and I'd hesitate to contradict him.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  25. tooth monitor by chelsel · · Score: 1

    I've always thought that it would be "easy" to replace one of your teeth, probably a molar, with the electronics that could monitor numerous vitals.

  26. The Borg started with harmless medical implants! by kawabago · · Score: 1

    There is an old saying that is appropriate here. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Implants have side effects no matter how good they are. Development of non-invasive hand held diagnostic devices is a far better direction to explore. All we need is room temperature super conductors and who doesn't have some of that kicking around!

  27. already getting there by uniquegeek · · Score: 1

    My dad was in for pacemaker/defibrillator surgery last year, and I noticed there was a screen in the hallway which showed all the stats of the patients in the ward. I joked to my Dad that I should ask what protocol they were using so I could put real-time updates on his facebook page.

  28. Re:No, because the wrong treatment ... by Herschel+Cohen · · Score: 1

    may be prescribed.

    In Japan, x-ray of the lungs was more common than elsewhere and more tumors were caught. Nonetheless, the real cancer and survival rates were not improved. In hind sight it seems some of these tumors would have disappeared if left untreated. The problem was both not being able to discern the difference and harming some with unnecessary, radical surgical intervention.

    In too many cases, life style behaviour known to be dangerous with predictable consequences (either by choice or bland acceptance) persists. For some, change is too hard, for others they see it as a image they would rather not confront. For many, other routes are more attractive, i.e. medical miracles after a lifetime of neglect. The only benefit might be to remind some that the deleterious effects are being seen. Let's use some of the simpler, cheaper options first, e.g. educating the young before opting for the expensive, unproven "fix".

    A balance must be struck. The question has to be asked whether the cost of monitoring is excessive. For example, will unnecessary treatments result based upon an incipient symptoms of a disease that would never appear in the lifetime of a monitored individual? In the end, the monitoring may be a better tool if tested on fewer individuals and the data collected to see how effective current, conventional medicine fared.

    Remember, supposedly the guiding principle of Medicine is to do no harm, whereas pervasive monitoring could have the opposite effect.

  29. Not thinking things through by mbone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The possibilities are enormous.

    Indeed. Maybe in 2050 our descendants will read

    People look back and find it unbelievable that just a few short years ago hundreds of bodily vital signs were not continuously anticipated and monitored by medical implants for the majority of the populace. ... The huge amounts of data that are accumulated from millions of continuously monitored people are nothing short of a revolution for the control of the population and the detection of doubt and hostility to the thoughts of our beloved leader.

  30. Already here for some of us by Shefwed82 · · Score: 1

    I am a type 1 diabetic and wear a sensor 24/7 that monitors my blood sugar. I realize that this is a specialized case, but for certain things the technology and need already exists and are being used.

    1. Re:Already here for some of us by kanweg · · Score: 1

      How does it work? I'm curious because I'd expect any sensor to be subject to fouling by body proteins and fats.

      Bert

    2. Re:Already here for some of us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree they do this for some cases. Even in diagnostic case for heart problems they starp people to heart recorders. I'm sure having a computer chip isn't that far away.

      I think for some people who have health problems this would be ideal. I have epilepsy. I would love to have like system that monitor's me and records how my brain activity and if i had a huge seizure maybe send help. IT would be like OnStar for your body.

      I don't think this would be a good solution for everyone just those who health problems

    3. Re:Already here for some of us by Twide · · Score: 1

      How does it work? I'm curious because I'd expect any sensor to be subject to fouling by body proteins and fats.

      Bert

      These devices need the sensor part replaced around every three days or so... But yes, they dont measure the actual Blood Sugar level, but the level within the fats etc.. which can lag behind by a couple of hours...

  31. ...and will be used against you by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "There are cannabinoids in your bloodstream. The SWAT team has been alerted. Please wait for them to arrive and beat you up."

    OR:
    "Your blood alcohol level is above the legal limit. A police officer is on the way. Please stop your vehicle immediately and wait to be arrested."
    And it would do this even if you were driving on your own private road, or driving a tractor on your own land (hint: DUI rules apply only on public roads, parking lots, etc.).

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    1. Re:...and will be used against you by plsavaria · · Score: 1

      In Quebec, it also applies on private land. Same ticket if you're caught having a beer on a lawn tractor in your yard than while driving a car on the road.

      --
      The answer IS 42.
    2. Re:...and will be used against you by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      In Quebec, it also applies on private land. Same ticket if you're caught having a beer on a lawn tractor in your yard than while driving a car on the road.

      Really? I was not aware of that. I lived in Ontario for some years, and I don't think DUI applied on your own land or private roads (speed limits didn't). But that was a while back and maybe things have changed in a suboptimal way.

      BTW, is it also illegal to ride a horse while drunk in Quebec? In most of the world, it is quite legal, on the grounds that the likelihood of a horse crashing or otherwise causing damage is not greatly changed by its having an enebriated rider (other than the drunk rider falling off). Not that I ever drink while riding my horse, of course...

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    3. Re:...and will be used against you by grumbel · · Score: 1

      And it would do this even if you were driving on your own private road, or driving a tractor on your own land

      Doesn't sound likely, it would be to easy to build GPS into the thing that then could handle your private road just fine. Also your car will probably just switch to autopilot if you drank to much, its the future after all.

    4. Re:...and will be used against you by plsavaria · · Score: 2, Informative

      DUI (driving with more than 0.08) is only for motor driving (car, boat, snowmobile, tractor, plane).
      But you still can get a ticket for riding a horse while drunk, though the consequences are a lot less important. A 100$ ticket.
      http://lejournaldequebec.canoe.ca/journaldequebec/actualites/quebec/archives/2009/01/20090123-120605.html/ Two months ago in Trois-RiviÃres.

      --
      The answer IS 42.
    5. Re:...and will be used against you by fractoid · · Score: 1

      In Australia (as I understand it) our drunk driving laws cover any vehicle. The canonical 'ad absurdum' example is that you can lose your drivers' license for rollerskating while drunk, and riding a push bike (or a horse) while drunk is likewise punishable.

      I think the worst cases are where the cops can charge you for DUI if they find you in your car with the keys while drunk, even if it's 10am and you're fast asleep. Given the number of times I or my friends have stumbled out to a car and slept it off before driving home in the morning, that seems pretty unfair (compared to just driving home at 4am when there's negligible chance of being caught).

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    6. Re:...and will be used against you by OolimPhon · · Score: 1

      In the UK, you can be drunk in charge of a bicycle. The penalty, absurdly, includes getting point on your car licence.
       
      This gets even more absurd if you happen to be a cyclist because you don't drive; in that case, the authorities will issue you with a driver's licence (that you didn't want and can't use) just so they can put the points on it.

    7. Re:...and will be used against you by fractoid · · Score: 1
      The bit about points on your license applies here too, but you only get points on your drivers' license if you have one.

      This gets even more absurd if you happen to be a cyclist because you don't drive; in that case, the authorities will issue you with a driver's licence (that you didn't want and can't use) just so they can put the points on it.

      Are you sure about this? I simply ask because (a) I may go to the UK at some stage, and if I do I'll certainly drink beer and may borrow a bike, and (b) I seem to recall a neat trick about Australian police having to do insane amounts of paperwork (and hence letting you off with a warning) if you (i) have a British license, and (ii) are driving a car that's not registered in your name. I'm sure you can see where this is going. ;)

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    8. Re:...and will be used against you by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · · Score: 1

      And it would do this even if you were driving on your own private road, or driving a tractor on your own land (hint: DUI rules apply only on public roads, parking lots, etc.).

      Wrong. DUI DOES apply on private roads, it is an exception to the rule that traffic laws only apply on public roads.

      --
      Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
  32. Stress level warnings by Mishotaki · · Score: 1

    "sir please stop stressing over your stress level"

    "sir your stress level is still rising"

    "sir, i must stress, that if you stress level doesn't lower, your health might be in danger"

  33. The matrix is everywhere? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    bad title! ;-)

  34. WTF? by wurp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I fail to see how monitoring my body automatically and being informed when my lifestyle leads to risk of serious ill health is "constantly try to eliminate every imaginable element of risk".

    I put on a wrist strap, forget about it, and then I get a notice every few months that I need more exercise, or I need to cut out saturated fats. Or, I even get a couple of notices daily to tell me to go eat a banana to maintain a blood sugar level that will keep me feeling good.

    That sounds pretty damn good to me. Most adults are killed by cancer or heart disease, and most cancer and heart disease are curable if caught early. It sounds to me like a system only an idiot would turn down.

    Seriously, if you live the way you're proposing, you would ride your motorcycle helmet-less back & forth to work every day, dine on bacon cheeseburgers and chili cheese fries, and only ever exercise if it was fun. I'm all for your right to live that way, but I refuse to let your snide commentary on people who choose to put a little work into living happy, long lives stand without refutation.

    (Note: this commentary is really directed as much at moderators as at the parent. A +5 Insightful comment naturally gets a more visceral reaction than the same comment at 2.)

    1. Re:WTF? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      That sounds pretty damn good to me. Most adults are killed by cancer or heart disease, and most cancer and heart disease are curable if caught early. It sounds to me like a system only an idiot would turn down.

      Right, but you know it will be taken too far. Blood Alcohol above some arbitrary level? No vehicle will start for you. Been to a party where someone was doping? Your going to have to explain why you remained in an area where unlawful activity was occurring... and that's just the tip of what you can do once you know EVERYTHING about someone's health on a moment by moment basis.

      Don't worry, we will make you very, very safe. Even if we have to lock you up for hurting yourself.

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    2. Re:WTF? by achurch · · Score: 1

      I put on a wrist strap, forget about it, and then I get a notice every few months that I need more exercise, or I need to cut out saturated fats. Or, I even get a couple of notices daily to tell me to go eat a banana to maintain a blood sugar level that will keep me feeling good.

      That sounds pretty damn good to me. Most adults are killed by cancer or heart disease, and most cancer and heart disease are curable if caught early. It sounds to me like a system only an idiot would turn down.

      I don't think it's that clear-cut. Maybe you'd enjoy spending time tweaking your health level, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd find their lives less pleasurable that way. It's like smoking (modulo the secondhand smoke issue): yes, it's bad for you and can cut years off your life, but if you enjoy life more while smoking, it's not anyone else's place to tell you to stop.

      I do think this is the sort of thing that should be introduced to children from a young age, since one's definition of "enjoyable" is so dependent on one's environment growing up.

    3. Re:WTF? by Splintax · · Score: 1

      This isn't a flaw with the technology itself. I imagine if this technology was implemented, the data from it would be subject to the same restrictions as today's medical records. If a blood test reveals that you use illegal drugs, your doctor's not allowed to tell the authorities that and have you prosecuted. The same should go for the data from these implants.

    4. Re:WTF? by wurp · · Score: 1

      In fact, I think as the internet becomes ubiquitous and the price (and size) of cameras and image processing drops to 0, all the stuff we do will become known to everyone, with (hopefully) the exception of things done in a truly private setting with people you can trust.

      But I agree with the other replier - the information should be treated as "papers and effects" (in the US) and be private from the government without a warrant. Hopefully in other countries similar privacy laws would apply.

      I'm not sure I'd disagree with something that prevented drunks from driving, though ;-)

    5. Re:WTF? by wurp · · Score: 1

      I actually agree with you completely. It still does seem stupid to me to turn it down, but I shouldn't insult people who turn it down. If you understand the consequences and accept them, it's not stupid, it's just a choice.

      I do think that most people make such decisions without really understanding that e.g. X hours of smoking takes Y years off your life, statistically speaking. And if it were put to them in a simpler context, they would make a different decision.

    6. Re:WTF? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Right, but you know it will be taken too far. Blood Alcohol above some arbitrary level? No vehicle will start for you.

      Good.

      Don't worry, we will make you very, very safe. Even if we have to lock you up for hurting yourself.

      Hurt yourself if you must, but don't expect sympathy when you are prevented from doing something likely to hurt others.

      In any case, I'm not too crazy about having my biometrics sent to some Three-Letter Agency, but I'd be more than happy to have them available to me.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    7. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see your point for the rest, but is it really that hard to find sufficient fun ways to exercise? I mean, all you need is one, right?

      Currently or in the recent past, I have played indoor soccer, mountain biked, road biked, hiked, skied, and indoor rock climbed. Four of those I've done in the last week. I'll be playing paintball this weekend. Before indoor soccer, I played outdoor soccer, and before that, I played ice hockey. And before that, I was involved in martial arts.

      Surely people can find *one* form of exercise that is fun for them?

    8. Re:WTF? by wurp · · Score: 1

      Well, I have three kids, ages 4-13, so it's hard to find something that I like to do and can make time for. I don't think that's a good excuse to not exercise.

      Unfortunately, until recently I didn't exercise at all regularly. Actually, though, now I have the Wii Fit, and I like it quite well.

      I'm not an athletic person - in general, I don't enjoy exercise-y things. I do like hiking, but there is nowhere near to do it, and doing it hard enough to get any exercise is difficult with a 13 yr old, and impossible with a 4 yr old.

  35. I envisioned it more like this -background monitor by spineboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So when you urinate in the morning, the toilet might check for excessive proteins to look for kidney damage, or myeloma, or see if there is sugar (diabetes). It might also check the toilet for blood to see if you have a bleed from a colon tumor, or ulcer.
    Maybe a little chip to monitor blood pressure, cholesterol, triglycerides.

    Or better yet, heart rate, oxygenation, and BP levels, to monitor your exercise tolerance - to see if you are fit. It would automatically upload it to your house computer. You could also check on your baby - uh oh junior has a fever - 103 - yikes let's go to the doctor.

    This would be best if it were for preventative measures

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
  36. People feel fine til they have their heart attack by spineboy · · Score: 1

    But an EKG or stress cardiogram would probably show that something was amiss.

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
  37. Ignorance != Bliss by aricusmaximus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's infuriating to see the the semi-luddite rantings of the parent post got modded insightful. Makes me wonder why I even read Slashdot anymore.

    Clearly the parent poster believes that monitoring devices are for ninnies and the weak. I assume that he follows his logic to it's logical conclusion and

    - carefully disables all monitoring and warning devices on all/any vehicles he drives - after all engine check lights are for sissies!
    - removes any and all air quality detectors (smoke/carbon monoxide/radon) from his homes (not to mention any security systems)
    - if a sysadmin, avoids the use of any and all alterts, alarms, and carefully avoids the instalation of monitoring systems

    The fact is that if this was about managing a server farm or a commercial jetliner instead of a person's body there wouldn't be a doubt in anyone's mind that recieving timely accurate information about system health and integrity is a *good* thing.

    Ignorance is *not* bliss, and having more information doesn't mean that you necessarily turn into a hypochondriac. It *does* mean you have the knowledge to make responsible, informed choices -- and/or not to.

    Pre-emptive monitoring for signs of heart attacks and strokes are no joking matter and detecting these early on mean the difference between mild and serious, life-altering damage or death. But apparently ignorance will be bliss for the parent poster until the "surprise" stroke, adult-onset-diabetes, heart-attack, or too-late cancer diagnosis.

    1. Re:Ignorance != Bliss by speedtux · · Score: 1

      Pre-emptive monitoring for signs of heart attacks and strokes are no joking matter and detecting these early on mean the difference between mild and serious, life-altering damage or death.

      There is already pre-emptive monitoring: the annual physical, plus pacemakers and similar devices for people with identifiable heart problems.

      Where is the evidence that any additional monitoring does any good?

    2. Re:Ignorance != Bliss by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

      It's not that I'd rather not know, it's that I'm not going to implant stuff in my body or strap things to my wrist to find out. That's a rather different prospect than installing a smoke detector, dontcha think?

    3. Re:Ignorance != Bliss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignorance allows tough guys to smoke Pall Malls and say it isn't affecting them. Monitoring systems removes the ability to make such claims.

      I understand the fear. Most won't be able to handle so much knowledge.

    4. Re:Ignorance != Bliss by gad_zuki! · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because random tests are flawed. How many times do we need to hear about missed heart conditions or even missed diabetes because an annual random test is not effective as constant real time monitoring for an extended period?

      The only reason we have the "annual checkup" system is not because its effective but because its cheap.

    5. Re:Ignorance != Bliss by 1800maxim · · Score: 1

      I think that it's infuriating to see posts like yours to be modded "insightful", where you clearly seem to have only one way of seeing things.

      The danger of such constant monitoring systems is that people/pharmaceutical companies will intervene before the body has a chance to adjust itself.

      No doubt the technology is waaaaaaaaay cool, and will have substantial benefits. But perhaps if you had a less emotional reaction to the parent post and thought his post through some more, you'd realize just exactly the kinds of points / warnings he is trying to make.

      Here is a scenario...

      You do not think that pharmaceutical companies will try to get in on this system to help ordinary people like you and I to take precautionary medication to eliminate future risks?

      Let me make a conjecture - you are one of the people who thinks Big Pharma is benevolent and is more interested in making people healthy than making profits, correct? You are ignorant of the abuse of the drug patent system, their warfare against generics, their sponsoring their own "independent" research, giving grants to research centres as long as they publish favourable results, suppressing results that are not to their advantage, their sleazy snake oil salesmen tactics, where each new patented drug is compared to placebo and not to the previously patented drug (a patent for which is about to expire, and hence the new patented drug), their attempts to bribe health officials, and their general lobbying efforts to change government policy / law.

      While the fact that we can have technology do such a thing is amazing, there is no reason to lash out at someone for seeing the potential for abuse of such technology. It doesn't take much to imagine totalitarian governments passing laws to mandate such systems, and then passing laws to mandate medicating you.

      If you think I'm too conspiratorial and far-fetched in some sort of fantasy land, just think of what fantasy "1984" was and how we are inching closer and closer to the regime described therein.

    6. Re:Ignorance != Bliss by petgiraffe · · Score: 1

      Where is the evidence that any additional monitoring does any good?

      So, if I understand you, you want to see hard evidence that the device, which hasn't been invented yet, actually works before you'll concede that inventing it might possibly be a good idea?

      --
      -- The reader anything less than completely failing to not misunderstand this sig is cursed.
  38. I want this so bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I turned up last year with _symptom_,
    which led to _test_,
    which showed abnormal levels of _chemical_ in my body.

    The doctor prescribed _drug_ to restore _chemical_ to normal levels.
    The drug works. The symptoms are much improved.

    But...I have *no* *idea* how much _chemical_ I'm getting.
    To little and too much are both bad.
    My body comes with a finely tuned feedback mechanism for regulating the level of _chemical_, which, unfortunately, appears to be broken. Instead, I take _drug_, which slams the stuff into my body. And I do mean *slam*. I can feel that stuff in me.

    The doctors say to take _drug_ for a month,
    and then get a lab test done to check the level in my system.

    A month???
    A lab test???
    I want a real time monitor on _chemical_.

  39. The possibilities are enormous by 1s44c · · Score: 1

    The possibilities are enormous.

    The possibilities for government or corporate abuse are enormous. Governments would love some way of remotely deactivating people as soon as they step out of line.

  40. Re:The Borg started with harmless medical implants by 1s44c · · Score: 1

    I thought the borg started when V'ger merged with Commander Decker.

    Either way the analogy is a good one. There is nothing governments would love more than reducing the entire population to drones. Actually most of the population are already there.

  41. The shotgun approach sucks by aswang · · Score: 1

    Whose going to look at and interpret all of that mostly worthless data? Bottom line is that there is no objective measurement of anything that would allow us to predict disaster any quicker than you yourself starting to feel sick would. Measuring things continuously (as opposed to periodic measurements for screening purposes) in someone who is healthy and doesn't have symptoms is a complete waste of time, unless all you're doing is collecting data on your control group.

  42. This technology already exists by chrisG23 · · Score: 1

    And has been around for a long time. All of the physical Yogas and the less martial of the martial art style exercises have as their aim a better union of the mind with the body, which includes a greater sensitivity to what the body is experiencing, so that you can make the changes necessary to avoid oncoming diseases or sickness (change in diet, extra rest, stimulation of a particular system of the body). Just because some raghead or little chinaman knows about this (and its not new knowledge, or even secret knowledge) seems to automatically mean its of no value to western society, and we need to come up with some external solution. If it ain't broke, dont fix it. And don't make it even easier for western society (mostly Americans) to live their lives in a horribly unhealthy physical state and with the assurance that there is a drug available or a medical procedure to solve something that should not have progressed to a problem in the first place.

    1. Re:This technology already exists by tabrnaker · · Score: 1
      No, we need the west as an example.

      Then when the power goes out and the electronics get fried, when the world recovers we'll see that all the americans have died because of their inability to even tell when they need water, or where to find that water. Where exactly do you find splenda or corn syrup in the wild?

  43. If not you, then who? by aswang · · Score: 1

    If you're not going to be willing to take care of yourself, continuous monitoring ain't going to save you.

    1. Re:If not you, then who? by khallow · · Score: 1

      If you're not going to be willing to take care of yourself, continuous monitoring ain't going to save you.

      That's wrong. Continuous monitoring by a neutral party can find medical problems I would otherwise ignore. I can still engage in behavior that decreases my lifespan, but those who end up treating me will have a much better idea of what is wrong with me and why. My health will be better as a result.

  44. The body monitors its own status. by dpbsmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Did you ever stop to think how silly and also how dangerous it is to live our lives with absolutely no monitoring of our body's medical status?"

    The body monitors its own status continously and constantly takes corrective actions. The process is called homeostasis, a word invented by Walter B. Cannon in the 1930s although the concept is much older.

    You might as well say:

    "Did you ever stop to think how silly and dangerous it is to live our lives with absolutely nothing monitoring our posture to keep us from falling over?"

    "Did you ever stop to think how silly and dangerous it is to walk around with absolutely no electrodes on our chests to keep our hearts beating?"

    "Did you ever stop to think how silly and dangerous it is to walk around with absolutely no portable diathermy machine to hold our body temperature at 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit?"

    This is not to say that canes and electronic pacemakers... and, for all I know, portable diathermy machines... might not be helpful to some people, but the body has a great capacity to take care of itself without medical intervention.

    1. Re:The body monitors its own status. by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      ...and, for all I know, portable diathermy machines...

      It's called a coat.

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
  45. They have this already by mateomiguel · · Score: 1

    Well its not an implant, but there are little wearable devices that have been made in South Korea which can monitor your vitals, with more in development. Here's a story about them: http://www.koreaittimes.com/story/ubiquitous-jewelry-keep-you-healthy

  46. Correction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It can't tell you that chronic high blood sugar levels will cause diabetes.

    Chronic high blood sugar IS diabetes.

  47. Coming soon: the REAL end of privacy by kheldan · · Score: 1
    There is NO WAY IN HELL I'd ever let anyone do this with me. Why? I don't even like things like OnStar or GPS on a phone that I can't completely disable, let alone someone being able to monitor my very flesh! I can just see it now: I'm out running intervals, or on my bike climbing a nice long steep hill, and police and paramedics show up, stop me, convinced that I'm about to expire because my heart rate is "too high" for their comfort. Or better yet, someone managed (inevitably!) to hack into the wireless connection, and starts spamming me for useless medical devices and bullshit supplements "based on my state of health" or somesuch. Thanks but no thanks! I'll monitor my own damned health thank-you-very-much. This would constitute the highest level of privacy-invasion I can possibly imagine.

    ..and before you all start shouting me down about how it's voluntary: with all the Nanny State bullshit I see going on in the world today, it's not far-fetched at ALL that between Nanny State governments, big insurance companies, and health insurance providers, they'd try to somehow make it mandatory. Screw them, screw that! If I wanted to anally-probed, I'd go live in Roswell and let the effing aliens take me for a ride.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Coming soon: the REAL end of privacy by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 1

      First bit of advice: when ranting about how the government is trying to control you, don't ever bring up aliens. It's a bad idea.

      This would constitute the highest level of privacy-invasion I can possibly imagine.

      Two words for you: Penis cam.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  48. anonymous coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And how do you propose the medical professional respond to the detected abnormalities ? Any idea how much that would cost? Any idea how many doctor/hours that would require? We (I'm a professor of medicine) barely use the current technology adequately. Such a device might be useful for study populations but it would not be feasible for general use. The cost to monitor those that are usually healthy(most of us) would be exorbitant. What degree of abnormality would require a response? Would such monitoring improve morbidity and mortality? What a stupid idea. We live and then we die - medicine does the best it can in between.

  49. The return of Clippy. by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I see you're trying to compose a child with your wife. Would you like some help?"

    1. Re:The return of Clippy. by wonmon · · Score: 1

      Saving Child As "George Foreman"

      Error - Child already exists

      Child saved as "George Foreman (7)"

  50. Re:I envisioned it more like this -background moni by Ozlanthos · · Score: 1

    I've assimilated enough C-Span to come to the conclusion that : To ask for permission is to ask for permission to abuse. Give you an example, wire-tapping....at one point it was used only in cases where such monitoring was permitted via a judge's signature...now anything you do that involves your credit card, telephone, computer, cell phone, memberships, bank accounts, internet use, car(s),...etc can and is being monitored on some level by one organization or another. This being the case, I do not want anything monitoring anything inside my body.

    Permission given is permission given to abuse. If you doubt it, next time your credit card company or insurance company raises your rates or cuts services for no apparent reason, go back and re-read the fine print of the contract you signed.....

    -Oz

  51. Can this really be Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is wrong with you people? Can you seriously not think of the possibilities of ubiquitous medical data collection?

    - Feedback drives natural behavioral changes. Watching your blood sugar levels and blood viscosity respond to eating an ice cream cone vs. a Big Mac vs. a banana is going to have an affect on what you decide to put in your mouth.

    - Correlations for the finding. Correlation doesn't indicate causality, but it does suggest relationship. If you pull all of this data together with demographic data you can search it for trends and correlations that you used to have to posit and test for.

    - Odd is normal. Finding something odd on a medical test will be properly ignored if it's been that way in your body forever. We've never known what to ignore before. Not to mention, with aggregate data for other users you'll even be able to know exactly how odd it is.

    1. Re:Can this really be Slashdot? by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

      - Feedback drives natural behavioral changes. Watching your blood sugar levels and blood viscosity respond to eating an ice cream cone vs. a Big Mac vs. a banana is going to have an affect on what you decide to put in your mouth.

      Unfortunately, the bodys internal feedback mechanisms usually override any external feedback. And they're the reason why people are stuffing ice cream cones and big macs in their mouths in the first place.

  52. Whoa, Nelly by Applesmurfen · · Score: 1

    The mentality shown in this article scares me more than any heart attack I would ever have. It seems that just because new technology has been invented, we are all stupid if we don`t use it. Not only that but the rethorics used in the article is styled to promote fear and uncertainty about something that is important to us all: the state of our bodies. Constant focus on unimportant things like this and what Obama said about the special olympics helps remove attention from what matters. Enough with the monitoring and surveillance. I`ve had enough invasion of privacy to last me a lifetime. With or without the heart attack.

  53. Easy solution: Make it voluntary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those that want it can have it (and have to pay for it), those that don't just don't.
    Everybody is happy.

    That wasn't too hard, was it?

  54. Yeyuka by Greg Egan by Sparkitus · · Score: 1

    Take the time to read the short story called Yeyuka by noted Australian science fiction writer Greg Egan. It plays out the consequences on society of people with "enough money" being able to have the health monitored 24/7 by way of a ring they wear on their finger. You can find the story here: http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/yeyuka.htm

  55. CGMS for Diabetics by Kryis · · Score: 1

    The technology to do some of this already exists.

    There are "Constant Glucose Monitoring Systems" (CGMS) on the market right now. A sensor is inserted just under the skin, attached to a wireless transmitter. These sensors must be replaced every 3 days or so. A separate device receives these signals and displays glucose levels every minute or so, along with a graph showing a slightly longer-term trend. While these readings are not guaranteed to be 100% accurate (they recommend doing a blood sugar check with a standard glucose meter before taking any action), they provide valuable data about what your blood sugar is doing; It can help catch low blood sugar before full blown hypoglycaemia and identify spikes in your blood sugar.

    Sadly, these products seem to be relatively rare in the US, and almost unheard of in the UK (apart from short 3 week trials) as the NHS doesn't like funding high-tech treatments until severe complications have set in (~0.4% of diabetics in the UK have an insulin pump, compared to ~15% in the US or Europe)

  56. Monitoring dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CHET-NUN
    Any phenomena is a product of noumena, the moral conditions of thought.

    Therefore, any monitoring or expectation of disease is a hazard.

    http://www.primitivepiety.net

  57. Not always... by Xenographic · · Score: 1

    > "Did you ever stop to think how silly and dangerous it is to walk around with absolutely no electrodes on our chests to keep our hearts beating?"

    I might if I needed a pacemaker...

  58. Body 2.0? Oblig. by deadbeefcafe · · Score: 1

    I'm holding out for Body 3.11 for Workgroups.

  59. Check out www.BodyMedia.com by foxxlf25 · · Score: 1

    They have been producing sleek, usable body monitoring technology for a number of years now. The solutions focus on weight loss and getting fit right now but I am sure the capabilities would expand in the future. All the contestants on the Biggest Loser on NBC wear their private branded device. The latest offering looks like Go Wear fit and includes sleep duration and efficiency too. Check out www.gowearfit.com.

  60. Re:Not really by yabos · · Score: 1

    Living a healthy lifestyle doesn't always help. There are some people that drop dead for no apparent reason. Often they are top athletes or apparently physically fit people. You may have an unnoticeable heart condition that could only be detected on an ECG. You may have high cortisol levels due to over stressing or working out too much that is causing you more harm than good. There are many things that could be going on.

    I don't really want to be hooked up with a bunch of wires all day long or have implants either. What we need is the Star Trek remote monitoring system where the computer can call out your life-signs without you being hooked up to anything.

  61. omg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    maybe if people worried more about how they live than how they're going to die, they wouldn't fear death so much. eat well, exercise, live in moderation, get over yourselves, and do something for others. good for the body, mind, and soul.

  62. Where this is headed.... by professorguy · · Score: 1

    How many things have gone wrong inside your body that your body had to deal with to fix itself? My guess is there are hundreds of these things going on in your body every day.

    Now we get to monitor, pinpoint, intercept, change, and CHARGE for every one of these events.

    All medical tests are attempts to find something to charge you for, regardless if doing nothing is effective or not. Now, with this system, everyone will be taking a lifelong medical test.

    Count me out.

  63. CPU to chubby....hey your dangerous cut that out! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, that will be the day I need a computer to tell me I've got a boner and I'd better be careful because my heart rate is up....lol

  64. If the nurse looks like Seven of Nine... by Dareth · · Score: 1

    If the nurse looks like Seven of Nine, she can assimilate me anytime!

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  65. Actually, I have by MasTRE · · Score: 1

    "Did you ever stop to think how silly and also how dangerous it is to live our lives with absolutely no monitoring of our body's medical status?"

    When I started running 7 years ago, I invested in all sorts of gadgets such as a heart rate monitor (HRM). I wore a chest strap that sent a signal to my watch which displayed my heart rate in real-time, as well as log it for further analysis/graphing on a PC post-run.

    That was all fine & dandy, and fun, and somewhat of a motivator to keep on running during that early stage, which is a good thing. But once I got serious about it, I simply stopped caring about the gadgets. I got extremely healthy and now know my body well enough to judge how I'm doing w/o electronics.

    I think the key is to live healthy. This is hard. Eating potato chips on the couch while watching TV and having a robot monitor your vital signs for imminent organ failure is not. Unfortunately, the majority will fall into the latter category. Natural selection?

    --
    Must-not-watch TV!
  66. As a father with a special child... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My daughter was born with several problems: a heart defect (double inlet left ventricle, for those in the know), Pierre Robin syndrome (cleft palate, small mandible), and caudal regression (also known as sacral agenesis: malformed lower half - 15% of normal length femur, dislocated hips, clubbed feet).

    She's just over 8 months old, and doing much better than the doctors ever expected. This is due in part to the fact that her heart, lower body, and jaw problems were spotted in the womb, and so they had time to plan for dealing with them. The doctors expected a week, maybe two, for survival.

    But this isn't going where you might think it is. You might think, "well, this guy must be all for constant monitoring." But I'm not, so let me explain. When we were finally able to bring our daughter home, after months (over half a year!) of hospital stay, we kept monitoring machines attached to her constantly. She has a home pulseoximeter to monitor heart rate and oxygen saturation (since she has a tracheostomoy and her heart only runs at 85-90% saturation), and we never let her off. When she dipped down to 75%, we'd freak out. When her heart rate went up, we'd freak out. When her heart rate went down in sleep, we'd freak out. Being new parents anyway, what else could we expect? We'd been used to having her monitored constantly at the hospital, so we wanted to do the same at home.

    But we realize that the body has fluctuations - even hers. And we also realize that she breathes better without an apnea belt strapped around her at all times. Our little girl still needs to be monitored, but we can check the numbers on occasion, not constantly. To do so will just incite more worry than it's worth.

  67. "did you ever stop to think?" by SlideGuitar · · Score: 1

    Did you ever stop to think.... how incredibly neurotically self obsessed you'd have to be to want to ""to live our lives with CONSTANT monitoring of our body's medical status?"

    Did you ever stop to think what an incredibly low level of bodily awareness you would have to have to need constant monitoring, and to be unable to feel your body without the aid of a machine?

    Go take a walk around the block and your body will tell you what you need to know.

  68. The Most Practical Use Of This Technology by Technomonics · · Score: 1

    Use it AT THE HOSPITAL! Most all doctors will tell you that whatthe body needs most after a major surgery or incident is plenty of rest. That is one thing you dont get at the hospital. You are woken up every 2-3 hours for tests. If this was monitored constantly, then you could get the 8 hours of sleep you minimally need to start healing instead of waiting to go home. Use outside of a hospital- well that could lead to a national of hypochondriacs (ex. "Doc, I was monitoring my hormone levels and found that when I got up int he morning there is a 2% drop and I read that sudden decreases could be a related to a major illness. Help ME!")

  69. Japan by 200_success · · Score: 1

    Japan already has mandatory diets for those with BMI>30. When the government gives you taxpayer-supported healthcare, the government also has the right to run your life.

    Really? What about the sumo wrestlers?