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Seven Arrested After Protesting Army Video Game Recruiting Center
GamePolitics writes "Seven anti-war protesters were arrested in Philadelphia on Saturday during a protest rally and march which targeted the Army Experience Center, a high-tech recruitment center which uses PC and Xbox games and simulations to attract potential recruits. GamePolitics was on hand to cover the protest, and took video of the arrests. A local news station also reported on the rally, and the Peace Action Network released a statement saying, "In its desperate approach to meet recruiting numbers, the military is teaching the wrong values to teenagers. Sugarcoating combat experience with virtual war is a dishonor to those with real war experience."
i for one have played America's Army for years, and i would love to play in the vehicles and huge screens with other ppl! sure its a recruitment tool but take it for what it is, a great team-based shooter.
Are the games any fun?
If so, can you play if you are older than recruiting age?
After watching the video, that "Army Experience" store, set up in a mall, strikes me as a little twisted. It seems pretty clear this place was set up to resemble a video game center to "lure" high school kids to it so recruiters would have an opportunity to talk to them about joining the Army. I'm not very comfortable having my government treating its kids this way.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
Where were all these protesters during the last 8 years when Bush was acting like an idiot?
Acting?! He most certainly was not acting!
Maybe they figure it's safe to protest again, and won't be waterboarded now that Bush is out of office?
Seriously, this is a non-story. A bunch of people make a protest (good for them, right of free speech) and then block the entrances after being asked to move (preventing expression of other people's rights) and get arrested. So what?
If there is a story here, it's whether or not the games are interesting, actually improve recruitment, and are worth the $.
The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
The twitter feed was boring as usual, but it has an interesting observation...
# A few in crowd have donned plain white masks... Not sure but they seemed to come from inside the aec
And later...
# Wow, about a half-dozen of the protesters in the white masks just got arrested. Hooked up with plastic cuffs and led away by police.
# I think they planned to get arrested for symbolic reasons... Leader just announced that 7 were arrested. All in plain white msks
So it was a publicity stunt? And why the people arrested came from within the army recruiting facility?
This is America. What the hell do you think gives you the right to peacefully assemble and protest? Only terrorists do that. Now bow down before our magnificent leader. You must go and die for his glory.
Argh, it's too early in the morning. Here's a deep youtube link to the footage of the arrests.
I have played AA for 6 years it's a great game, on the flip side I served as Infantry for 12 years. The AA game simulates the battle side of the army but nothing about the other phases (book training, guard duty, and cleaning the base) AA tends to glorify the battle side. I entered in 1989 and served till 2001 (medical discharge) I volunteer to go anywhere I could, but was never deployed outside the US. while the war training was fun it wasn't a common ordeal during my service time. on a final note http://www.pvtmurphy.com/Prints/Any%20Luck.htm
I'm told you are what you eat, does that mean I can be you by tomorrow with some A1?
A quick google search found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003_anti-war_protest and http://www.zombietime.com/iraq_war_fifth_anniversary_protest/. If you put your mind to it, I'm sure you can find *a lot* more.
The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
Where were all these protesters during the last 8 years when Bush was acting like an idiot?
800 of them were arrested at and around the 2008 Republican Convention.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
In Norway we have semi-obligatory military service for males (basically a 1 year training program to be prepared in the event of an invasion. After that it's possible to join the army full time. Semi-obligatory because it's not that hard to get out of. So the following could be considered a recruitment event). All males of around 18 years old (and I think they've made attending this obligatory for females too now, just not obligatory for them to serve) are called in for a "Sesjon" (Session?) to determine physical and mental abilities, as well as a minor health checkup.
One of the first things they did was show us a movie, to spark our interest, I suppose. But all it was were kids driving around in tanks, climbing stuff and being out in nature. Not a single image of what war actually is. Not even a drop of blood.
Truth in advertising should be much more prevalent and mandatory when we're dealing with the worst of all things, war.
We are all God's parents.
"Seven anti-war protesters were arrested in Philadelphia on Saturday during a protest rally and march which targeted the Army Experience Center, a high-tech recruitment center which uses PC and Xbox games and simulations to attract potential recruits...
It looks like they meant anti-war ralliers or war protesters, not anti-war protesters. The media in general constantly seems to repeat this phrase incorrectly.
EOF
I found it ironic that as a service member, I had less freedoms available to me. The freedom of speech, needing to ask for permission to get married, etc. Throw in the the base clubs weren't allowed to have "offensive" music (and of course the sensitive types wouldn't have the decency to stay home). /sigh. Buy all the liquor, tobacco and bibles you want, but no porn!
"Common sense will be the death of us all"
Well and that ain't the whole story. To quote from wikipedia:
During the convention's first three days, more than 300[50] individuals were arrested by police,[51] including journalists (AP photographer Matt Rourke was one),[52] health-care workers and lawyer observers.[53] Some were released, but nearly half received felony charges.[53]
It was more or less the same at 2004 RNC: people (1800 accordingly to wikipedia) were arrested, many just just for being in the wrong place. Not only reporters/lawyers/health care volunteers were arrested but also people completely unrelated to the protests that were going about their business (delivery men, people just going/coming to/from work, etc). I thought at that point this is something realy massive and NYC will be sued to oblivion, Bush will lose a lot of popularity and maybe resign and so on. But no, nothing like that...
...which I opted out of the non-easy way, by becoming a CO
Conscientious objector
:-)
or Commanding Officer
?
It's just like XBox -- only you die.
Anyone who played an online multiplayer shooter will attest that the experience is very close to real life war. The fresh young recruit steps onto the battlefield, expecting a grand battle the likes of the opening of Saving Private Ryan, only to end up in the scope of a spawn point camping sniper who is only farming headshots on the newbies...
On one hand, I have great respect for the military and the sacrifices soldiers are willing to make to protect their fellow citizens, whether fighting somewhere else in the world to preserve democracy (yes, I really believe that's what they are doing, historically and now) or serving at home during disaster relief, helping their fellow citizens directly.
On the other hand war is something to be abhorred and avoided. It's always a last resort. Soldiers are a precious resource that we (as the people ultimately in charge of our political system) are responsible for protecting too. We must not send them into war for questionable reasons, or ask them to do a job that squanders the sacrifice they are willing to make.
Finally, if people are being recruited into the military while being falsely informed about what that really means to do the job, yeah, that is obscene. It deserves some good, old, democratically-principled protest.
The only video game that would be realistic would be one where it's "game over" if you are mortally wounded, and where you have to haul your non-mortally wounded buddies out of the battle zone or they die too. I know America's Army is far better than the usual "near-instant respawn" that is typical (it's no "Team Fortress"), but it still glosses over the unreality in the game. Let kids "13 and up" talk to real vets and serving military officers about the upside and the downside of their job, as recruitment has always done, and leave the virtual reality out of it. Glitzing it up too much is misleading.
But you do have to know where to draw the line between protest and obstructing other people's rights to their own decisions on the matter. The protesters should be as loud as they want on public land, but not block the door.
Well and that ain't the whole story. To quote from wikipedia:
During the convention's first three days, more than 300[50] individuals were arrested by police,[51] including journalists (AP photographer Matt Rourke was one),[52] health-care workers and lawyer observers.[53] Some were released, but nearly half received felony charges.[53]
It was more or less the same at 2004 RNC: people (1800 accordingly to wikipedia) were arrested, many just just for being in the wrong place. Not only reporters/lawyers/health care volunteers were arrested but also people completely unrelated to the protests that were going about their business (delivery men, people just going/coming to/from work, etc). I thought at that point this is something realy massive and NYC will be sued to oblivion, Bush will lose a lot of popularity and maybe resign and so on. But no, nothing like that...
Maybe there were not lawsuits because no one had a case against the city. I was in NY during the RNC (on non-related business) and got to see first hand what was going on. First, the police did an awesome job. They pretty much let people do what they wanted and were there to maintain the peace. They maintained a pretty light hand. Right in front of a couple of police officers, I was spit and threatened on by a peace protester who didn't understand the irony of his actions. The police did nothing. I asked them why and they basically told me that they had bigger fish to fry. Sadly, I agreed.
I saw people block entrances to businesses, block the bus routes for delegates, hurl objects such as fake blood, urine, and dirt at delegates, try to "release" protesters that had been arrested and partake in other activities that went far beyond their right to peacefully assemble. No one can deny that their attempt was to disrupt the RNC, meaning that their goal was to strip the rights of the RNC members. Those that resorted to illegal means were arrested.
The only bystanders that I saw arrested who were at the wrong place at the wrong time were given fair warning. For example, if a bunch of protesters were blocking a bus route and a reporter was in the mix interviewing them, that reporter was also arrested for helping to block the bus route. They were given ample warning to move.
What does this have to do with the recruiting center protests? When you block a legal activity in protest, you can count on getting arrested. These people crossed the line and were no longer "peaceably assembling". They were breaking the law.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Typical uninformed protestors.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/03/army_recruiting_numbers_031109w/
The military is enjoying a recruiting boom thanks to the poor economy. Enlistment bonuses are getting cut and the military is getting much more selective in whom they accept. This year in particular is a recruiter's wet dream.
All this "experience" does is reach out to Generation Y in a new way.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
Okay. Films like FMJ, that (rightfully or not) demonize military culture, are okay. But a video game depicting a limited facet of the military experience is horrible evil propaganda?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
It looks like you have a different definition of militarism than khallow was using, or at least are looking at a different meaning.
I'd describe your definition as 'military skills' - If you're going to have a military, best to have it be as effective as possible.
On the other hand, Khallow's 'militarism' is a philosophy of using the military in the most offensive way possible, of looking at the military as first and last solution to any international problem.
They're substantially different things. Even the Marine Core wants their Marines to be violent only when the situation calls for it.
As for Cadences, didn't you figure out that they're supposed to be dirty/politically incorrect?
I don't read AC A human right
What now, Bibles or no porn? Or did they censor the parts where the people in the Bible fucked like rabbits (or was it with them?)?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
This can't be summed up in a 5 second soundbite, so most Republicans can't pay attention long enough to grasp it. Which is sad, really. The Democrats are going to have to be their own opposition party, because the remaining Republicans are all incompetent.
Military recruiting has never been about truth in advertising. When I recruited for the USAF ('93-'97, 368 RCS OL-FD Reno, NV), I hung the front page of the European Stars and Stripes printed on the first day of the first Gulf War on the front wall of my office, the first thing a visitor saw when they came through the front door. It was a night-vision picture of an F-15E Strike Eagle, fully loaded with death and destruction, refueling from a KC-135 aerial tanker with WAR in a 3-inch bold font above the photo. My superiors suggested I should take it down since it might scare off potential applicants. I left it up - I felt it was important that even those folks joining the "Chair Force" should understand that the ultimate purpose of the military was not to provide job training, college money, or a pay check twice a month; the ultimate purpose of the military was to fight the nation's wars - everything else was secondary to that.
I don't think I lost a single applicant because of that picture. Even though I sold the benefits the Air Force provided (Money, Advancement, Training, Travel, Recreation, Education, Service, and Satisfaction), I made sure the applicant understood that they were applying to join an organization whose mission was to fly, fight, and win. If I was asked "will I go to war?" I told the applicant the chances were slim they would ever be engaged in direct combat (again, this was years before Afghanistan and the second invasion of Iraq and the use of Air Force personnel to run convoys, etc.), but the possibility always existed. Ultimately it was the applicant's responsibility to make the decision whether to enlist or not.
Yeah, there are dirtbag recruiters in all the branches who lie. Some get caught and are disciplined, others don't. But I don't have much sympathy for anyone who enlists because his or her recruiter told them they'd never go to war (and anyone who enlists today, after six years of Afghanistan and Iraq in the news every day, who thinks they'll never go to war is simply a self-deluded idiot and should be discharged at the earliest opportunity). There are a lot of misconceptions about military life propagated by the media and the education industry, but not fighting wars is not one of them. Trust me - the first day of basic training it's made very clear to the recruits (this includes the Air Force) the reason they're there - to fight the nation's wars. And its not hard for a recruit to get kicked out of basic training if that's what he really wants - we'd rather do it then and there than spend the money to train, house, and feed him only to have him start crying "I was told I wouldn't have to go war!" down the road.
Sorry, but any kid who enlists in the Army thinking war is just like a video game is just dumber than dumb. The Army isn't being dishonest or even disingenuous using this as a recruiting tool. The folks who are protesting this aren't upset about truth in advertising and they're not offering an alternative to these kids, many of whom either can't afford or aren't ready for college. There isn't a social program out there that can provide the same benefits military service does. And for every story you hear about someone not being able to find a job after spending four years in the military there are dozens of others like me who used their military experience and benefits as a stepping stone to bigger and better things in life.
What?
The mall can boot the gov't out, but as far as I'm concerned, that space is free for protest as long as the gov't is paying for it.
Blar.
Who owns the property. Not the gov't. The property owner. If my tax dollars pay for it, it's public. If the property owner doesn't like the protests, he can try to boot his tenant and the protesters out. The gov't can't boot out citizens.
Different rules apply. This is why we don't like to conflate government and private enterprise. Gets messy.
We can't let the military hide behind private business and vice versa. It breeds contempt for the military and the gov't.
Blar.
is possible for people to believe Bush did not do enough and did too little at the same time
You are saying it is possible to believe in A ("did not do enough") and again in A ("did too little") simultaneously?
Yeah, right. Put the crack pipe down.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Being a denizen of the area, I heard on the local radio talk show both sides of the argument. The leader of the protesters was only concerned about one specific game being played in the center that taught killing people is "OK" Of course, this is just like most war games do at home but I guess you have to take a stand somewhere. The protesters were a wide range of 30+ individual groups where many were more radical than others. We shouldn't lump sum them into one mindset. The actual protest leaders were fairly moderate and very reasonable.
No, the GP is saying it is possible to believe that A "did not do enough X" and that A "did too little Y" simultaneously. You need to brush up on your reading comprehension and be a little less insulting to people.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
Yeah, but nobody likes old porn
Mmm.. senior porn.
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
Moderate parent down, please. It is anecdotal and inconsistent with what happened outside his line of sight.
Your post described what you saw with your own eyes, nothing more, and you conclude their behavior was positive based on no real data.
You may want to learn about what happened beyond your immediate line of sight -- people illegally detained and arrested, undercover officers inciting violence etc, officers telling people what they could do then arresting them when they followed instructions. "They pretty much let people do what they wanted" was not true outside your line of sight.
I understand most lawsuits against the city are being won.
Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I found it ironic that as a service member, I had less freedoms available to me. The freedom of speech, needing to ask for permission to get married, etc. Throw in the the base clubs weren't allowed to have "offensive" music (and of course the sensitive types wouldn't have the decency to stay home). /sigh. Buy all the liquor, tobacco and bibles you want, but no porn!
You don't need permission to get married, unless you are planning on marrying a foreigner while you are stationed in a foreign country.
Your post described what you saw with your own eyes, nothing more, and you conclude their behavior was positive based on no real data.
You may want to learn about what happened beyond your immediate line of sight -- people illegally detained and arrested, undercover officers inciting violence etc, officers telling people what they could do then arresting them when they followed instructions. "They pretty much let people do what they wanted" was not true outside your line of sight.
Um.... what I saw with my own eyes IS real data. For that matter, what I saw with my own eyes is MORE valid that what someone heard from someone else. It's too easy to say, "Someone told me that they were just standing there on the corner minding their own bizness and the Gestapo and took them all in." In other words, first person experience carries credibility than third person rumors.
I do not pretend to know everything that happened and only reported what I saw with my own eyes.
Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen
True, but again, what I SAW carries more weight than what you HEARD. Just because you HEARD it doesn't mean that it happened either. May I also add that this was the most documented protest in history. Not only was every major and local minor media outlet there, but at least one of every three "protesters" had a camera. I have not seen any video of these reported abuses either.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
That depends on what era the poster served in. My grandfather, a WWII navy pilot, had to marry in secret because he wasn't allowed to.
If you are stateside, you don't need permission to get married, and you ALWAYS get BAH and BAS (about $2000 a month, depending on rank, cost of living for the locale, etc.)
Overseas is a different deal because space is limited and CI/force protection become issues. But if you are married and your wife stays in the US while you go to Korea, or any other analogous situation where you are separated, you still get the monthly BAH payment to buy an apartment/housing/food/etc.