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Seven Arrested After Protesting Army Video Game Recruiting Center
GamePolitics writes "Seven anti-war protesters were arrested in Philadelphia on Saturday during a protest rally and march which targeted the Army Experience Center, a high-tech recruitment center which uses PC and Xbox games and simulations to attract potential recruits. GamePolitics was on hand to cover the protest, and took video of the arrests. A local news station also reported on the rally, and the Peace Action Network released a statement saying, "In its desperate approach to meet recruiting numbers, the military is teaching the wrong values to teenagers. Sugarcoating combat experience with virtual war is a dishonor to those with real war experience."
i for one have played America's Army for years, and i would love to play in the vehicles and huge screens with other ppl! sure its a recruitment tool but take it for what it is, a great team-based shooter.
Where were all these protesters during the last 8 years when Bush was acting like an idiot?
Are the games any fun?
If so, can you play if you are older than recruiting age?
After watching the video, that "Army Experience" store, set up in a mall, strikes me as a little twisted. It seems pretty clear this place was set up to resemble a video game center to "lure" high school kids to it so recruiters would have an opportunity to talk to them about joining the Army. I'm not very comfortable having my government treating its kids this way.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
The twitter feed was boring as usual, but it has an interesting observation...
# A few in crowd have donned plain white masks... Not sure but they seemed to come from inside the aec
And later...
# Wow, about a half-dozen of the protesters in the white masks just got arrested. Hooked up with plastic cuffs and led away by police.
# I think they planned to get arrested for symbolic reasons... Leader just announced that 7 were arrested. All in plain white msks
So it was a publicity stunt? And why the people arrested came from within the army recruiting facility?
GamePolitics was on hand to cover the protest, and took video of the arrests...
All I saw was a line of cops in front of the Army XP Center and some protesters mingling about.
This is America. What the hell do you think gives you the right to peacefully assemble and protest? Only terrorists do that. Now bow down before our magnificent leader. You must go and die for his glory.
I have played AA for 6 years it's a great game, on the flip side I served as Infantry for 12 years. The AA game simulates the battle side of the army but nothing about the other phases (book training, guard duty, and cleaning the base) AA tends to glorify the battle side. I entered in 1989 and served till 2001 (medical discharge) I volunteer to go anywhere I could, but was never deployed outside the US. while the war training was fun it wasn't a common ordeal during my service time. on a final note http://www.pvtmurphy.com/Prints/Any%20Luck.htm
I'm told you are what you eat, does that mean I can be you by tomorrow with some A1?
In Norway we have semi-obligatory military service for males (basically a 1 year training program to be prepared in the event of an invasion. After that it's possible to join the army full time. Semi-obligatory because it's not that hard to get out of. So the following could be considered a recruitment event). All males of around 18 years old (and I think they've made attending this obligatory for females too now, just not obligatory for them to serve) are called in for a "Sesjon" (Session?) to determine physical and mental abilities, as well as a minor health checkup.
One of the first things they did was show us a movie, to spark our interest, I suppose. But all it was were kids driving around in tanks, climbing stuff and being out in nature. Not a single image of what war actually is. Not even a drop of blood.
Truth in advertising should be much more prevalent and mandatory when we're dealing with the worst of all things, war.
We are all God's parents.
We don't need your kind exploiting our genuine(tm) freedoms so you can boast your anti-American soapbox in our country when such is not allowed in your own. Err, you're an American oh sor$% I mean shut your mouth you armchair US'ian! Fat ass people like you can't argue facts(tm) without insulting someone of their physical and mental limitations. Go back to, er#$) San Francisco where you are all backwards! And you can quote me!
Eh, Offtopic? Seems like there are some mods that need to learn the meaning of that word.
Offtopic != Disagree
VPS-like shared hosting, on under-crowded servers.
"Seven anti-war protesters were arrested in Philadelphia on Saturday during a protest rally and march which targeted the Army Experience Center, a high-tech recruitment center which uses PC and Xbox games and simulations to attract potential recruits...
It looks like they meant anti-war ralliers or war protesters, not anti-war protesters. The media in general constantly seems to repeat this phrase incorrectly.
EOF
I wonder how much of our tax dollars went into that facility, looks pretty state-of-the-art. Anyone remember the movie "Toys," starring Robin Williams?
This story is boring for one why protest the recruitment of soldiers when you should protest at the office of your representative and senator. The people that send soldiers to war. I suppose if you were trying to hire 18-24 year old people you go after their sense of world responsibly.... Come on! The old method was selling it as a 9-5 job that you got college money when you were done. This method was a lot more false advertising than showing kids video games of people fighting and dying.
...which I opted out of the non-easy way, by becoming a CO
Conscientious objector
:-)
or Commanding Officer
?
It's just like XBox -- only you die.
Anyone who played an online multiplayer shooter will attest that the experience is very close to real life war. The fresh young recruit steps onto the battlefield, expecting a grand battle the likes of the opening of Saving Private Ryan, only to end up in the scope of a spawn point camping sniper who is only farming headshots on the newbies...
On one hand, I have great respect for the military and the sacrifices soldiers are willing to make to protect their fellow citizens, whether fighting somewhere else in the world to preserve democracy (yes, I really believe that's what they are doing, historically and now) or serving at home during disaster relief, helping their fellow citizens directly.
On the other hand war is something to be abhorred and avoided. It's always a last resort. Soldiers are a precious resource that we (as the people ultimately in charge of our political system) are responsible for protecting too. We must not send them into war for questionable reasons, or ask them to do a job that squanders the sacrifice they are willing to make.
Finally, if people are being recruited into the military while being falsely informed about what that really means to do the job, yeah, that is obscene. It deserves some good, old, democratically-principled protest.
The only video game that would be realistic would be one where it's "game over" if you are mortally wounded, and where you have to haul your non-mortally wounded buddies out of the battle zone or they die too. I know America's Army is far better than the usual "near-instant respawn" that is typical (it's no "Team Fortress"), but it still glosses over the unreality in the game. Let kids "13 and up" talk to real vets and serving military officers about the upside and the downside of their job, as recruitment has always done, and leave the virtual reality out of it. Glitzing it up too much is misleading.
But you do have to know where to draw the line between protest and obstructing other people's rights to their own decisions on the matter. The protesters should be as loud as they want on public land, but not block the door.
If a thousand protesters showed at random times carrying no signs or taking any other attitude that would identify them as protesters, then asked politely the recruiters: "Cool, but may I play on the insurgents side please?"
Typical uninformed protestors.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/03/army_recruiting_numbers_031109w/
The military is enjoying a recruiting boom thanks to the poor economy. Enlistment bonuses are getting cut and the military is getting much more selective in whom they accept. This year in particular is a recruiter's wet dream.
All this "experience" does is reach out to Generation Y in a new way.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
Okay. Films like FMJ, that (rightfully or not) demonize military culture, are okay. But a video game depicting a limited facet of the military experience is horrible evil propaganda?
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
It looks like you have a different definition of militarism than khallow was using, or at least are looking at a different meaning.
I'd describe your definition as 'military skills' - If you're going to have a military, best to have it be as effective as possible.
On the other hand, Khallow's 'militarism' is a philosophy of using the military in the most offensive way possible, of looking at the military as first and last solution to any international problem.
They're substantially different things. Even the Marine Core wants their Marines to be violent only when the situation calls for it.
As for Cadences, didn't you figure out that they're supposed to be dirty/politically incorrect?
I don't read AC A human right
And, to put said cost into scope, you also need to know how many 'leads' said facility generates, how many turn into recruitments, and the average/median quality of the troops recruited from said center.
Think about the cost of those national 'go army' recruiting TV ads. Recruiting is expensive.
I don't read AC A human right
Inside one of those centers, a youngster playing for ages, along comes a recruiter.
Recruiter: Hi there, I see you're pretty good.
Young person: Yeah. Bob, can ya snipe that asshole shooting at me?
Recruiter: Well, I'm pretty sure you'd be a great soldier yourself.
YP: Maybe. I see him, in the bushes there! Don't aim, rattle down a belt, dammit!
Recruiter: Maybe you should consider joining the army.
YP: Whatever. Fuck! We're under fire, get over to the bushes and call in some arti!
Recruiter: You can enlist right here, and join that in the reality!
YP (earning himself a headshot): What the...? (turns to recruiter) Could you just shut up or better fuck off, you're ruining it! Can't you go bother someone else or just die maybe?
In other words, who goes there to hear about real war? Real war is boring, tedious, outright dangerous. And the least of your time is spent collecting headshots.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Some people protested and got arrested!!1one!!! The end of the world is near! Democracy is falling and we are all going to die!!!one!1! Kill all authority figures!!11!one!11!
There was that enough misplaced and misused fear and outrage for you? I hope so because that is all you are going to get.
Why the fuck did this make it on to Slashdot?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
The US Army's goal is to discourage violent alternatives to peaceful cohabitation and negotiation. That often requires the civility of a headshot.
What a great way to lead by example!
Instead of the US peacefully cohabiting the earth and negotiating with Iraq, they invade the country and shoot all the violent people.
You owe me a new irony detector.
Military recruiting has never been about truth in advertising. When I recruited for the USAF ('93-'97, 368 RCS OL-FD Reno, NV), I hung the front page of the European Stars and Stripes printed on the first day of the first Gulf War on the front wall of my office, the first thing a visitor saw when they came through the front door. It was a night-vision picture of an F-15E Strike Eagle, fully loaded with death and destruction, refueling from a KC-135 aerial tanker with WAR in a 3-inch bold font above the photo. My superiors suggested I should take it down since it might scare off potential applicants. I left it up - I felt it was important that even those folks joining the "Chair Force" should understand that the ultimate purpose of the military was not to provide job training, college money, or a pay check twice a month; the ultimate purpose of the military was to fight the nation's wars - everything else was secondary to that.
I don't think I lost a single applicant because of that picture. Even though I sold the benefits the Air Force provided (Money, Advancement, Training, Travel, Recreation, Education, Service, and Satisfaction), I made sure the applicant understood that they were applying to join an organization whose mission was to fly, fight, and win. If I was asked "will I go to war?" I told the applicant the chances were slim they would ever be engaged in direct combat (again, this was years before Afghanistan and the second invasion of Iraq and the use of Air Force personnel to run convoys, etc.), but the possibility always existed. Ultimately it was the applicant's responsibility to make the decision whether to enlist or not.
Yeah, there are dirtbag recruiters in all the branches who lie. Some get caught and are disciplined, others don't. But I don't have much sympathy for anyone who enlists because his or her recruiter told them they'd never go to war (and anyone who enlists today, after six years of Afghanistan and Iraq in the news every day, who thinks they'll never go to war is simply a self-deluded idiot and should be discharged at the earliest opportunity). There are a lot of misconceptions about military life propagated by the media and the education industry, but not fighting wars is not one of them. Trust me - the first day of basic training it's made very clear to the recruits (this includes the Air Force) the reason they're there - to fight the nation's wars. And its not hard for a recruit to get kicked out of basic training if that's what he really wants - we'd rather do it then and there than spend the money to train, house, and feed him only to have him start crying "I was told I wouldn't have to go war!" down the road.
Sorry, but any kid who enlists in the Army thinking war is just like a video game is just dumber than dumb. The Army isn't being dishonest or even disingenuous using this as a recruiting tool. The folks who are protesting this aren't upset about truth in advertising and they're not offering an alternative to these kids, many of whom either can't afford or aren't ready for college. There isn't a social program out there that can provide the same benefits military service does. And for every story you hear about someone not being able to find a job after spending four years in the military there are dozens of others like me who used their military experience and benefits as a stepping stone to bigger and better things in life.
What?
The mall can boot the gov't out, but as far as I'm concerned, that space is free for protest as long as the gov't is paying for it.
Blar.
Who owns the property. Not the gov't. The property owner. If my tax dollars pay for it, it's public. If the property owner doesn't like the protests, he can try to boot his tenant and the protesters out. The gov't can't boot out citizens.
Different rules apply. This is why we don't like to conflate government and private enterprise. Gets messy.
We can't let the military hide behind private business and vice versa. It breeds contempt for the military and the gov't.
Blar.
Then I realized it was mostly Republicans losing life and limb for Bush's honorless campaign. I think we're even for their flag-waving cries of "If you question the mission you don't support the troops" that I heard so often.
Occupying Irag over lies had made it harder for future US governments to convince the people of the need to go to war. This could backfire badly, should a real threat arise.
Blar.
Okay. Films like FMJ, that (rightfully or not) demonize military culture, are okay. But a video game depicting a limited facet of the military experience is horrible evil propaganda?
FMJ does not "demonize" - it is simply realistic. It doesn't glorify either, though...
"A" video game may or may not be propaganda but "THE" game (America's Army) sure is. But is it "evil" and "demonizing"? Well...
I guess it is exactly the case as with you and FMJ.
Depending on which side of the fence you are - both are either "depicting a limited facet of the military experience" or "being evil propaganda tools".
Personally, I find that game to be simply boring.
Its work vs fun ratio is really bad, plus you only get to play one side, and there are no tanks, transporters or aircraft.
I'd rather play Battle Field 2 any day.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Being a denizen of the area, I heard on the local radio talk show both sides of the argument. The leader of the protesters was only concerned about one specific game being played in the center that taught killing people is "OK" Of course, this is just like most war games do at home but I guess you have to take a stand somewhere. The protesters were a wide range of 30+ individual groups where many were more radical than others. We shouldn't lump sum them into one mindset. The actual protest leaders were fairly moderate and very reasonable.
Damn you, Seven of Nine!
... they all went home to play CoD4 with their kids...
I think the quote stating that having a war video game dishonors those who have fought in real battles.... is interesting. I take issue with this for several reasons. 1) Video games serve as a tactical simulation and provide an enhanced learning experience for participants. 2) Video games will most accurately simulate the war of the future. [Remote control, camera and sensor based] 3) How can a video game dishonor war veterans? Do people really think war veterans care if you play a video game about a battle they were in? Really? I can understand the protester trying to make a point, but let's keep it real.
Good luck with that one. By the time they can join the army and go off to fight a war they will no longer be children. Until then they are giving them a safe place to play teen rated video game and talk to role models.
I read an article (cannot recall which site) about this yesterday where it explained that those arrested were arrested for wearing masks in a public demonstration. Like it or not covering your face while protesting is illegal in many cities in the USA.
wtf? Where I'm from that's a bad sign when people with the red brassards show up
To be fair, Full Metal Jacket isn't part of a government campaign to coerce young people to take very dangerous jobs.
Amazing how you neglect to mention documented arrests where people just standing on a corner waiting to cross the street were "swept up" in orange nets.
It's very easy to get arrested. Some people have it down to a science. It also means your story will get more coverage than without arrests.
Why does it seem that all the government-hating anarchist pig fuckers have mod points today...
Come join the Army and shoot the Hun. Apply quickly as respawns are on a "first come, first served" basis and VERY limited.
When I was a kid, about ten years old, I knew some guys, my father's friends, who had fought in WWII. I asked them about their war experiences, and there's one thing all of them said: the first kill is the most difficult. They had seen guys die because they hesitated, in war those who cannot shoot first die.
There are many situations in war where restraint is called for, but it's very difficult to train 18-year-olds to have the appropriate judgement when needed. Training them to kill remorselessly is a way to let them survive, at the expense of less trained 18-year-olds in the other side.
www.americasarmy.ca
will_die - "older than recruiting age?"
smchris references that older than recruiting age is 43 and gets marked as a troll??? Is it ageist? WTH?
Give me more points, I'll clean this place up!
[UID-HeinzIntel]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Norwegian_military_personnel_killed_in_World_War_II
Seeing as Norwegians fought on both sides during WWII, I'm not sure what you are on about.
[UID-HeinzIntel]
I heard of an interview of some GIs during WW2 and they described army life something like this. "Combat is 90% boredom and 10% sheer terror".
When are they going to start making Predator Drone simulators available, then start taking the highest scoring kids and having them run real missions without the kid's knowledge?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Im sure they are now cataloged as such.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Branches of one's own government should not be in the business of manipulating their own citizens in this fashion.
And yes, I recognize that ship has generally sailed, but this is an egregious example... and then to arrest peaceful protesters on top of it to squelch dissent and keep that manipulation out of public awareness? That's unconstitutional and criminal.
I feel this is a good recruiting tool, and it doesn't just show the men/women what they might go through, but also allows them to learn teamwork and how to trust each other. The electronic retailer giant Best Buy used to require their Geek Squad employees to play the game Mechwarrior as a part of their training and it had positive effects including better communication, teamwork, and also trust.
...to defend the Frontier from Xur and the Kodan Armada?
in a real democracy, free speech rules. we the people have been paying for the video game recruiting center with our tax dollars. this indeed makes it part of public discourse. -- until we shut it down!
Protest the war. Exercise you first amendment rights. But don't tell me I'm wearing green when I know what green looks like and I'm actually wearing blue. I guarantee you that the kids know that people die in battle. Maybe they feel a sense of patriotism and responsibility towards serving their country through the military. Maybe they just get off knowing they get to shoot a big-ass gun at some person of color. Whatever their motivation, let's stop discounting their ability to understand the concept of death and dismemberment and the potential consequences of their decision to join the military. That's just rude.
And stop trying to demonize recruiters and start placing that label on the people that truly deserve it - lawyers and insurance companies.
Your problem here Moryath is that your "asswad shithead anarchists" will pretty much include a bunch of smelly drunk rioters who costume themselves like savages and harrass legitimate business shipping interests. They'll be headed up by bartenders and metal workers who pick flamboyant and self-indulgent names like "The Sons of Liberty." Sam Adams and Paul Revere were hardly the sort of proper, genteel people who wrote polite letters to their betters.
It should be simple. People have the right to petition for a redress of grievances, and if they exercise that right in a loud and obnoxious fashion, then so be it. It's still preferable to the acts of assault, kidnapping, vandalism and sabotage that our Founding Fathers engaged in.
Absolutely nothing takes priority over that right, which is why it heads the list of the Bill of Rights as the First Amendment. If the government's there, then it's going to have to listen to all of its citizens, not just the demure and well-scrubbed ones. Hiding behind "This is private property" isn't going to cut it. If the government needs space, then let it exercise eminent domain and simply declare the space it needs and build a building, but under no circumstances should the right of the people to petition the government for a redress of grievances be abridged.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
I've played a fair number of FPS games based on "realistic" wars (as opposed to science fiction or horror genre wars). The one thing every single one of them has in common is that it takes several respawns for me to make it through the game--or even through the first area.
This does not make me want to go out and fight in a real war. Real war does not have respawns.
Essentially, the government does not get to hide from dissent by scheme or contrivance. The government does not get to put roadblocks in the way of citizens expressing their views. You don't get to avoid free speech by say, ordering people to limit the expressions of discontent to calling an 800 phone number no one monitors.
You never get to say, "The rules say you ain't got no rights here."
Here's the cites you were looking for:
The First Amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Petition_and_assembly
"The right of assembly was originally closely tied to the right to petition. One significant case involving the two rights was United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875). There, the Supreme Court held that citizens may "assemble for the purpose of petitioning Congress for a redress of grievances." Essentially, it was held that the right to assemble was secondary, while the right to petition was primary. Later cases, however, have expanded the meaning of the right to assembly. Hague v. CIO, 307 U.S. 496 (1939), for instance, refers to the right to assemble for the "communication of views on national questions" and for "disseminating information.""
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Just build the Great Wall of China and they can't enter your territory!
Anonymous Coward
In case you missed it. Nobody is coerced into anything.
The years of "Go to war or go to jail", and the draft are over.
That's what "100% volunteer force" means.
Maybe you mean "mislead". Coercion implies they were forced.
BZZT!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
I seriously doubt the Peace Action Network is concerned about "teaching the wrong values..." nor the recruits.
Reminds me of the Left Wing Pinko chickenshxts in the 60's.
See the above cites. The government cannot say "Here you cannot protest us." The government doesn't get to hide from its citizens. And as far as the rights of landlords, notice how conspicuously absent they are from the Bill of Rights, while the right of people to petition and protest their government is the first order of business...
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."