Slashdot Mirror


Social Networking Behavioral Agreements At Work?

r0nc0 writes "My company (a Fortune 15 company) has recently required everyone that accesses the company portal to accept or decline an 'agreement' that governs the use of social networking. It basically states that any discussion of the company or any of the work that you do, whether at the office or at home, must be governed by their rules of social networking. Naturally these rules are that you never say anything bad or negative about the company, nor do you say anything bad or negative about anything. It's presented like a EULA, but if you decline more than 3 times your manager is notified. Naturally I declined it each time until my manager complained to me about all the email he was getting about me not accepting the agreement, so I went ahead and accepted, knowing that anybody who cares would just post anonymously anyway. This is the first time I've run into a forced agreement about social networking, and the agreement is so broad that it can't possibly be enforced. I've tried pointing out that agreements like that only drive people away and aren't necessary anyway, but I might as well talk to a brick wall. Has anyone else out there run into social networking behavioral agreements like this?"

239 of 326 comments (clear)

  1. Uh by Fallingcow · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think you just violated it. Oopsie!

    1. Re:Uh by Fallingcow · · Score: 4, Funny

      Holy shit, I've been here quite a while and I don't think I've ever had a goatse troll post in response to me!

      Do I get a prize?

      Wait, never mind, even if I do I doubt it's anything I want to know about.

    2. Re:Uh by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sounds like if he did not accept the EULA-style agreement a few times and they keep asking him, he's being harassed at work. A good lawyer would put a stop to it. And if he did get caught out, then a good lawyer could definitely make a case that he was badgered into agreeing.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    3. Re:Uh by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or he'd just get fired. And that's a black mark on your career, especially as the court case drags-on and gets published in papers. I think there are better ways to handle it such as:

      - Instead of signing the agreement just scribble some illegible scrawl. That way if it goes to a court of law (very unlikely), you can deny signing the contract, "Huh? That's not my signature. It's obviously been forged. My signature looks like this..."

      - or - Cross-out the part you find objectionable, specifically the "outside of work" section. A company can control what you say on the clock, but off the clock they can not. And then sign it using your customary signature. I do this with those stupid patent agreements - what I invent in my basement, on my time, is MINE not theirs.

      You have to stand-up for liberty, else they'll take it away. Don't make it easy for them.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    4. Re:Uh by cbs4385 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How do you cross out a portion of a web form with 'I agree' and 'I do no agree' buttons?

    5. Re:Uh by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 4, Funny

      Permanent marker on your monitor. Just be careful not to scroll before clicking 'I agree,' lest you change which part you've crossed out.

    6. Re:Uh by kramerd · · Score: 3, Informative

      That isnt how a signature works.

      What matters is that you signed it, not what you signed.

      If you sign your mortgage with your mother's name, you are still liable, not her.

    7. Re:Uh by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      False. Signing is not enough. They must also be able to prove the signature is tied to a specific person, and if you made an illegible blotch of ink across the page, then there's no verifiability. The contract is null and will be rejected by the courts.*

      *
      * Again I doubt you'd ever need to go to court over this agreement, but better to CYA just in case.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    8. Re:Uh by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I didn't think of that. My employers always made me sign an actual piece of paper with an actual signature. Is an agreement checkmarked on a screen binding? How do they prove that *I* did the checkmark, and not some HR flunky, or the pointy-haired boss? I don't think they can.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    9. Re:Uh by PotatoFarmer · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, the parent to your post got it right. It's not what you signed, it's the act of doing the signing that matters. A more detailed explanation can be found here.

    10. Re:Uh by orkybash · · Score: 1

      Or scribble a fake signature, for that matter

    11. Re:Uh by Nethead · · Score: 1

      The sysadmin can. You are the one that logged in, right? You didn't leave your station without logging out, did you? Ergo: you checked the box.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    12. Re:Uh by YayaY · · Score: 1

      The company lawyer will still have to prove that he agreed to something. Signing a worthless piece of paper is a way of proving that you did agree to something, so I clicking 'I agree' on a web site if the web site is done properly. Remember, a contract can be verbal too. In any case, to upheld a contract in court you have to prove that the contract exist and that both parties have agreed to it.

      --
      Votator.com implements a fair voting scheme (free
    13. Re:Uh by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2

      Yes! You are the proud winner of a minus one (-1) offtopic moderation, and a plus one (+1) under-rated moderation! Congratulations!

    14. Re:Uh by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 2, Insightful

      False. Signing is not enough. They must also be able to prove the signature is tied to a specific person, and if you made an illegible blotch of ink across the page, then there's no verifiability. The contract is null and will be rejected by the courts.

      One assumes you're not going to lie to cover your own ass (whether in court or otherwise) -- I like to believe that most folks learned to stop doing that sometime in their teens. If your honor means so little to you (or if not that, than your trustworthiness to others), then have fun with that.

    15. Re:Uh by Fallingcow · · Score: 5, Interesting

      One assumes you're not going to lie to cover your own ass (whether in court or otherwise) -- I like to believe that most folks learned to stop doing that sometime in their teens.

      Funny, for me it's been the reverse--from a young age I felt that it was very wrong to lie and almost never did (and always felt bad about it). Only later did I discover (much to my surprise and, when participating in it, discomfort) that being disingenuous and even lying outright is not only widely accepted in the adult world, but very often expected.

      This is especially common in business, I've found, where being perfectly honest on a résumé and/or application will practically never land you a job, especially on those "why do you want to work here"-type question (let's face it, 99% of the time the real answer is "I want money and this job sounds like it won't suck too much"). Then there's "networking" which often involves creating a whole false persona. It's sickening, but damn-near unavoidable, and certainly considered to be normal and acceptable.

    16. Re:Uh by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      Uh, wrong. Both my direct manager and the head of HR know our passwords. It would be extremely easy to forge an online checkbox while logged-in as me.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    17. Re:Uh by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>it's the act of doing the signing that matters.

      ~-~~-+++~~~@#!~~~!

      There. That scribble is a signature. Identify the employee who signed that. You can't, can you? Because a contract has to have two parties, if one of the parties can not be identified, there's no contract. It's void.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    18. Re:Uh by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>>One assumes you're not going to lie to cover your own ass

      Why not? Politicians lie all the time. Ditto corporations. So too do cops, and courts have stated cops are allowed to lie. ("No I'm not recording this," even though they are.) If they are allowed to lie, then I'm allowed to lie too. That makes it an even playing field in the adversarial legal system, where virtually anything goes.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    19. Re:Uh by Dragonslicer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Both my direct manager and the head of HR know our passwords.

      There's a sure sign of a problem right there.

    20. Re:Uh by WNight · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But neither can your signature really be used to link you, handwriting analysis is only so good after all...

      That's why people witness other people's signatures, because otherwise there really isn't any reason to trust even well-formed marks on paper.

      But ultimately, it's just even-more marked-up paper.

    21. Re:Uh by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      Then there's "networking" which often involves creating a whole false persona. It's sickening, but damn-near unavoidable, and certainly considered to be normal and acceptable.

      Ehmm, some of us manage to "network" while still remaining true to who we are and what we believe is important. Of course that doesn't mean a lot, since there's tons of people who are total assholes and who believe the most important thing in the world is themselves, but you get the point ;-)

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
    22. Re:Uh by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      That's yet another thing I've enver encountered. I've signed a lot of these corporate policies over the years, but nobody's ever witnessed that scribble is MY scribble. It's non-binding if they cannot identify whose scribble it is.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    23. Re:Uh by Acer500 · · Score: 1

      If they are allowed to lie, then I'm allowed to lie too. That makes it an even playing field in the adversarial legal system, where virtually anything goes.

      Sounds like you guys (US) are "losing" in the prisoner's dilemma-style social life :(

      An US-trained teacher once exemplified the difference between US culture and ours by saying that you (US people) expect to cooperate, and are more willing to sacrifice in exchange for higher rewards, while we over here (Uruguay, South America) are more content with mediocrity.

      Has it never been that way, or has it changed recently?

      --
      There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    24. Re:Uh by Courageous · · Score: 1

      I believe that it would be illegal for a employer to "fire" you (terminate you for cause) for refusing to sign a legal agreement during your employment. "Let you go," probably, "fire," I think not. If they do "fire" you under such circumstances, I suggest that this would be actionable.

      Careful with your "cross out" advice. Sounds reasonable, but I think that there states in which the outcome is not what you think it might be.

      C//

    25. Re:Uh by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      or me it's been the reverse--from a young age I felt that it was very wrong to lie and almost never did (and always felt bad about it). Only later did I discover (much to my surprise and, when participating in it, discomfort) that being disingenuous and even lying outright is not only widely accepted in the adult world, but very often expected.

      What an odd and unfortunate view on life. It's interesting - I will never lie to protect myself, or to cover for my inadequacies, or to make myself look better. In business I won't lie to protect someone's feelings if it's to the detriment of project/company/etc - but I also am not a jerk about being honest.

      Yet somehow, I have a successful career where I'm earning notably more than market value for what I do. This makes me very skeptical of any claims that it's "expected" or "required".

      his is especially common in business, I've found, where being perfectly honest on a résumé and/or application will practically never land you a job, especially on those "why do you want to work here"-type question (let's face it, 99% of the time the real answer is "I want money and this job sounds like it won't suck too much"). Then there's "networking" which often involves creating a whole false persona. It's sickening, but damn-near unavoidable, and certainly considered to be normal and acceptable.

      Ah yes. I'm familiar with people who have done that. They puff up their resume to get in the door, then when they interview it's apparent that they've wasted my time.

    26. Re:Uh by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      I won't waste time arguing that not all cops, politicians, and corporations are corrupt. Assume that they are - you're lowering yourself to their standards? Why not just not sign the document in the first place? It's much easier than signing it and pretending that you didn't. Especially when they can reasonably turn around and (under your theory of corruption) get a dozen HR drones to swear up and down that you signed it?

    27. Re:Uh by An+anonymous+Frank · · Score: 1

      "Without Prejudice"?

    28. Re:Uh by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      Ah yes. I'm familiar with people who have done that. They puff up their resume to get in the door, then when they interview it's apparent that they've wasted my time.

      It's not even necessarily puffing it up--even putting everything in hyper-positive terms and HR-speak makes me feel dirty, and that's definitely the norm even for people who aren't lying on their résumés. You can't "like" your career, you've gotta be "passionate" about it. You can't be "pretty good", you've gotta be "accomplished". Even if the other terms are, strictly speaking, true, they're still not how I'd describe myself or my feelings in any other setting, let alone in my own head.

      Then again, I think part of it's just me. I had humility pounded in to me throughout my childhood, and I think it might make things that others see as being perfectly honest and normal feel false to me. Between that and the sorts of friends I have, I'm pretty sure my perception of "average" is severely skewed, too. Still feels like dishonesty, though.

    29. Re:Uh by vonhammer · · Score: 1

      Now, it's more like: you are more likely to accept broad generalizations and we are more likely to not realize that it was never changed from that way.

    30. Re:Uh by TheLink · · Score: 1

      IANAL. But the courts can decide whether it's binding or not.

      The courts might be rather negative to you when it turns out after investigation that you have a habit of making random scribbles on most of your contracts with the intention to get out of them when "stuff happens".

      In some places it's called "bad faith".

      --
    31. Re:Uh by StuartHankins · · Score: 1
      I've heard of putting passwords in escrow, but wow that's dangerous stuff. There are many problems with this scenario:
      • The safeties are off with my userid/password and I'd hate to think of the damage that could be caused by a newbie sitting down and hacking using my account.
      • You can easily get into a situation where something is done improperly and you are implicated.
      • How in the hell do you manage security with shared info? I just can't get over that. In my world sharing passwords at my level is grounds for termination.

      Of course, your HR manager and direct manager may be more technically brilliant than the average bear, but even then... wow.

    32. Re:Uh by VeNoM0619 · · Score: 1

      Funny, for me it's been the reverse--from a young age I felt that it was very wrong to lie and almost never did (and always felt bad about it). Only later did I discover (much to my surprise and, when participating in it, discomfort) that being disingenuous and even lying outright is not only widely accepted in the adult world, but very often expected

      Funny, for me it's been reversed. Eventually I found out you can tell the truth but use qualifier words that protect you, or quite possibly add additional information to the situation.

      Very few people apparently know that "I might have signed that memo" and "I did sign that memo" are 2 different statements. 1 leads to a definitive answer holding you accountable, the other leads to a "we could prove it, but we really can't without plenty of resources", which leads to: I'm too lazy, I won't research it. Both statements are true btw.

      --
      Disclaimer: I am not god.
      We may not be created equal
      But we can be treated equal.
    33. Re:Uh by Ifandbut · · Score: 1

      I think more people need this. Through middle school and high school I thought I was the only decent kid around because I would not gloat over the smallest and stupidest things.

    34. Re:Uh by shentino · · Score: 1

      Name one employee whose willing to lose his job over his "rights" and throw the judicial dice, especially in this economy.

  2. More like a safeguard by thomasinx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's less of an enforceable EULA, and more of an excuse to fire. This way the company will have a (more) legitimate excuse if they fire you for something said about the company. They'd fire you anyways, but this just gives them more 'grounds' in case you go back and try to sue them.

    1. Re:More like a safeguard by briggsl · · Score: 1

      The number of people being fired for people posting things about work have increased ridiculously here in the UK. We hear stories of people getting fired because they say they've had a sh*t day, so this is the next logical step for corporations, as they will no doubt be expecting a major, trend setting lawsuit soon enough. Signing something protects them.

    2. Re:More like a safeguard by bennomatic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't know why they force you to agree to it. Unless there's some sort of union agreement or tenure issue, most people are at-will employees, at least in the US, and can be fired at any time for any reason.

      Maybe the issue is firing for cause, which allows companies to get out of their obligation to pay unemployment, as I understand it, but if it's just a matter of separating the wheat and the chaff, they don't need an agreement to do this.

      It goes like this: "Hey, look, this employee clearly isn't happy, and instead of dealing with their manager or colleagues, they're airing their dirty laundry to the world. This isn't the kind of person we want to trust with our trade secrets. G'bye!"

      A better company would have identified the problems sooner by using good performance management methodologies which would encourage open and honest communication among the ranks, but many companies can't be bothered. There's a growing sector of the talent management software market that deals with this because some companies do realize that they can save a lot of cutter by keeping their good employees happy and not resorting to these sorts of punitive measures.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    3. Re:More like a safeguard by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Al Capone, the notorious gangster at whose feet practically all of organized crime in the 1920's was lain, was indicted for the one crime they could effectively make stick ...

      Income tax evasion.

      Not murder or extortion or any other crime that you'd associate with Capone. Tax evasion. With that conviction in the bag, they threw the book at him.

      The poster's company's Social Networking agreement seems to be prep for the same kind of action. For whatever reason they might *want* to fire him, or penalize him, or just overlook him for a benefit, they can set him up for failure to comply with a confounding, overly-broad rule that he signed his intention to obey.

      It streamlines the bureaucratic process for them, because all they need is *one* reason.

      Every time HR asks me to generate a report on the surfing habits of an employee, I know exactly where it's going, and sure enough, I'm deactivating accounts soon afterward.

      People don't *really* get fired for surfing the net. It's just easier to make the case that way.

    4. Re:More like a safeguard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      most people are at-will employees, at least in the US, and can be fired at any time for any reason.

      You mean, can be fired at any time for _no_ reason.

      It's an important distinction (since there are reasons you _can't_ be fired for). See also FMLA, ADA, etc.

    5. Re:More like a safeguard by thomasinx · · Score: 2

      It's not that people can't be fired at any time, it's that there are some reasons that are legally unacceptable for firing someone. Among these are disabilities, old age, marriage, pregnancy, race, etc. If you get fired for one of these reasons (and you can prove it) then the company did a no-no, and you're likely eligible for compensation. (Although proving it is hard).

      In this case, the company is playing it safe in case someone wants to play the free-speech card. (e.g., "I was fired for using my right to free-speech. Give me money since you wrongfully fired me")

      Or that's their goal. This EULA might be a bit too broad for something like that, and could introduce other issues. It depends on exactly what is said in it. The safest bet is to just not use your real name when blogging, and not let the company find out.

    6. Re:More like a safeguard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I used to work for a GOV contractor at a Nuclear Site. They had us sign something similar about safety. Basically saying we would be safe all the time even when not at work! How do you even drive your car after signing something like that?

    7. Re:More like a safeguard by Jurily · · Score: 1

      This way the company will have a (more) legitimate excuse if they fire you for something said about the company. They'd fire you anyways, but this just gives them more 'grounds' in case you go back and try to sue them.

      So, after firing you for no legally acceptable reason, if they cite a legally unenforceable piece of paper makes their position stronger? How? Any decent lawyer would argue this is a means of circumventing employment laws and as such, should be penalized.

    8. Re:More like a safeguard by Motard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Umm, perhaps it has occurred to you that when someone asks you to look into surfing habits of an employee, they have some reason for looking into that. That you know exactly where it is going seems like a pretty good indication that they're not doing it randomly (i.e. they're not on a fishing expedition - unless you can say that the majority of cases turn out to be innocent, work related surfing - and they're still fired).

      Some companies (EDS for instance, although this was some years ago) have codes of conduct that extend beyond the workplace. That's a little close to the line for my taste, but if your CEO sees you running naked down the midway of the state fair with the company's logo strapped to your head, well, you might want to fear for your job.

    9. Re:More like a safeguard by plalonde2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      It just makes it more expensive to fight your suit against the megacorp. Since justice belongs to the party with the deeper pockets, megacorp gets away with it until some defense lawyer can carry the whole thing through, which reduces how many attorneys might take on what might be an otherwise open-shut case.

    10. Re:More like a safeguard by billcopc · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well now, if you're wearing the company's logo on your head, you're not naked now are you ?

      The problem with these overreaching contracts is we let them get away with it, because people are goddamned chickenshits when it comes to money. When faced with the choice between getting a shit job with a shit contract, or turning it down and looking for a more respectful employer, people always go with #1. Well sure enough, as time goes by, option #1 shoves its hand farther up your ass and before you know it, clause #36 of your employment contract has you giving daily handjobs to the entire executive board.

      At some point, we gotta grow some balls and tell these bastards "NO! I am not your bitch! Fuck your contract and fuck you!", or start investing in the personal lubricant industry.

      If you still want that shit job, if you somehow enjoy being treated like a child and chastised for every little shred of humanity you have left in you, by all means move to Britain, they love your kind! The rest of us would much rather have our private lives unhindered by the fine print of wage slavery.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    11. Re:More like a safeguard by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      So, after firing you for no legally acceptable reason

      Who says they need one? All this really is is making sure they're somewhat insulated from an unlawful dismissal claim.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    12. Re:More like a safeguard by uniquegeek · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing you've read Corporate Confidential, or something like it. Or maybe you just see the corporate world for what it is.

      A lot of people really don't understand that HR works for the company, not the employees. They have to make nice or have the appearance of making nice, but their main priority is figuring out which employees will cost them the most to deal with. They answer to management alone, and you can damn well bet they'll try to collect as much "evidence" against you as they can.

    13. Re:More like a safeguard by montyzooooma · · Score: 1
      It's particularly curious as employees have a lot more rights in the UK than they appear to have in the US. He's arguing to make the US workforce more like the UK workforce, and if you don't like it then move to the UK.

      FWIW I'm entirely in favour of a corporation telling their employees they can't talk about their employers on social networking websites. Next step would be shutting them up about talking about every other trivial aspect of their life on social networking websites.

    14. Re:More like a safeguard by Sobrique · · Score: 1

      I know my employer uses Google Alerts to keep an eye on blogs. I've had a response from 'elsewhere in the company' when I've posted something. Nothing that I'd be embarassed about my employer seeing mind - I've long since decided that my 'social networking' if it's public, it's public, so I might as well ensure it's all something I could be proud of.
      None the less, having someone respond (before I worked there) to my 'anyone know about .... I'm looking at a job there', and more recently having someone comment about their apprentice program when I posted about it has made it very clear to me that 'bad mouthing' my employer would be rather moronic. Although I have considered once or twice whether doing so could actaully elicit a 'useful' response to an outstanding issue I've got, generally the conclusion is 'no'. If your employer is doing something dumb, naming and shaming is much more likely to cost you your job than to actually fix the problem.

    15. Re:More like a safeguard by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      It's not that people are 'chickenshit', it's that in this country there's an entire political party dedicated to making sure that corporations can continue to act like that.

      We have failed to recognize that the entire existence of any corporation is dependent on the state allowing it to exist, and that corporations have no rights at all.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    16. Re:More like a safeguard by Courageous · · Score: 1

      Well, really they just need to make sure the policy is well understood. Insubordination at work is generally grounds for dismissal. How far they can get their fingers into your at home behavior is a very good question, but I will ignore that one. By plastering the EULA in front of you, they can argue that they are sure you knew the policy.

      C//

    17. Re:More like a safeguard by Courageous · · Score: 1

      I don't know why they force you to agree to it. Unless there's some sort of union agreement or tenure issue, most people are at-will employees, at least in the US, and can be fired at any time for any reason.

      That's not how big corporate America works. They require a documentation trail to avoid wrongful termination lawsuits. Those lawsuits can be real stingers, because the offended parties may be part of some minority group, sick, or allege slander/libel on the part of the company or one of the deciding parties.

      This is one of the reasons that during major layoffs large companies often hand out a sheet of the age spread of the employees. "See, we laid off from a range of ages, you can't sue us for age discrimination".

      You have to remember that at will employment only lets you terminate for LEGAL REASONS. The terminated party can easily allege an illegal reason, or allege slander/libel (i.e., "Big company may have only laid me off, but Mr. Big Executive told HR I suck, and it's not true. He libeled me.")

      C//

    18. Re:More like a safeguard by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      It streamlines the bureaucratic process for them, because all they need is *one* reason.

      Well, there's another way to solve such a problem... It's called "at will employment," which basically means the employee or employer can terminate employment at any time for any reason.

  3. So... by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What actually happens if you would have kept declining? Does that actually impact your salary or continued employment? And do they consider /. to be a "Social Networking" site?

    Personally, I think it'd be worthwhile to mail the text to the EFF.

    --
    If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    1. Re:So... by coolsnowmen · · Score: 1

      I don't consider /. to be a social networking site.

      Compared with facebook/myspace where the purpose is to talk about yourself and to make+stalk friends, /. it for discussing news stories.

      Also, I've never read a comment and thought to myself, "hmm, that was insightful, maybe we could play together."

    2. Re:So... by mr_mischief · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Perhaps most importantly, is it even legal for them to force an existing employee into new terms of employment in his jurisdiction?

      A good practice for the employee is to never say anything regarding your employer's business that you have not been authorized to say on your employer's behalf, period. Another is to never allow your personal opinion about something outside your company be mistaken as a company statement. The usual "these thoughts do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer" disclaimer is usually effective for the latter.

      It's scary that they are having people agree to something through harassment, though. Everyone should have notice and a chance to show it to their own counsel before signing it.

    3. Re:So... by GPLDAN · · Score: 1

      The EFF isn't going to take up a fight with a corporate policy. Never in a million years. If it is Fortune 15, then it is probably public, i.e. it's stock is public.

      That's the only way you have to affect a reversal of that policy. Get a lot of shares amassed and invite yourself to a board meeting. Outside of that, forget it. The EFF won't touch it.

    4. Re:So... by xrayspx · · Score: 5, Informative

      The agreement covers his personal time as well. It's not that they let him loose on Facebook at the office, it's that they govern what he can do on Facebook at home.

    5. Re:So... by mustafap · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >Everyone should have notice and a chance to show it to their own counsel before signing it.

      What is this with involving lawyers at a simple decision point?

      He should be grown up enough to make his own, educated decision. He is educated, isn't he?

      --
      Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
    6. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      . But that's what you get when you grow up as a latchkey kid in an affluent Boston or San Francisco suburb with a basement full of supercomputers to tinker with while the other kids get social skills and lives.

      Hey, you say that like it's a bad thing. Now I'm rich, and I don't need a social skills OR a life. Do I want sex? Sure, that's why I pay for hookers! In fact, I'm getting a BJ right now while I post this! Admit it, you wish you were me!

    7. Re:So... by Nos. · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know that educated is not the same thing as omnipotent right? I know a lot about computers, security, etc. Don't know much of anything about medicine though. That's why I go see a doctor when I have questions.

    8. Re:So... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I bet NYCL doesn't bother seeking council before he signs something!

    9. Re:So... by SQLGuru · · Score: 4, Informative

      From your "profile":

      coolsnowmen (695297) is all alone in the world.

      Slashdot does have a "friend" concept. I'm sure it's underutilized (and hopefully all dev time is spent elsewhere if that's true), but that gives it a social aspect. I've added a couple of people as friends because I've found things they said to be in line with my views and having a similar interest. I haven't really tried to contact them, but I will occassionally look to see what they are commenting on in case I missed an article that would be of interest to me.

    10. Re:So... by mr_mischief · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What's the proper pressure through your car's PVC valve? Your mechanic probably knows.

      How long do you cook a 2" thick steak on a 675F flat grill to get it medium rare? I bet some high school kid in your town can tell you from his job at a restaurant.

      What's the best type of broom for cleaning up a spill of damp gerbil food? Is it nylon, polyester, horsehair, palmyra, PVC, or straw?

      What's a typical range of muzzle velocity of a Remington .223 rifle?

      How do you write a 32-bit adder in 6502 assembly language?

      Whats the technical flood stage of the Mississippi river at St. Louis, MO's official measuring point?

      What's the third note of the melody in Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries?

      Come on, you should know all of these things without looking them up or asking anyone. After all, you're educated, aren't you?

    11. Re:So... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I bet NYCL doesn't bother seeking council before he signs something!

      He's probably smart enough to know that an administrative committee isn't the best place to go for advice on contract law.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    12. Re:So... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      "It is stock is public" Your a marron!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    13. Re:So... by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      "I cannot agree to this contract because without consideration it is not valid."

      Consideration for new contract terms cannot be the same consideration that you accepted for your original terms.

      This is important. Without consideration, it's not a contract. If it's not a contract, it's not an enforceable agreement.
      If they can enforce this agreement, it's only because they *already* have your agreement to abide by company policies that are already subject to change. In other words, they don't need you to accept anything, really, they just need an instrument to show that you were given notice of the policy. By "declining" it, you've really given them what they need - a record that shows you were given notice.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    14. Re:So... by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >>>is it even legal for them to force an existing employee into new terms of employment in his jurisdiction?

      Probably not. Just because you sign an agreement, does not make it binding. During the Paypal trial, most of their user agreement was declared "null" on the basis that citizens can not sign-away rights/privileges enforced by State or U.S. law. So eventually I think you'll find most of these corporate-enforced EULAs that forbid discussing the job while at home will be nullified by the courts - probably on the basis of Constitutional law - we just haven't reached that point yet.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    15. Re:So... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      There is a lot more social networking going on in journal pages on slashdot. In effect, every user account is a personal social network. I have stumbled on a few over the years.

    16. Re:So... by BKX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What's the proper pressure through your car's PVC valve? Your mechanic probably knows.

      No he doesn't. He looks it up in a manual, if for some unknown reason he would need to check it. More likely, he'll do a few tests that rule out other parts and then replace it if it's bad.

      How long do you cook a 2" thick steak on a 675F flat grill to get it medium rare? I bet some high school kid in your town can tell you from his job at a restaurant.

      The answer is, "HOLY FUCKING SHIT! GET A FIRE EXTENGUISHER!" There's no way in hell you'd have a flattop grill at 675F. With flattop grills, the use of oil to keep product from sticking is mandatory. Even the highest high-temp oil will smoke at 500F. Other oils will smoke at about 400F-450F (including beef fat). As such, flattops are generally kept between 350F and 425F. (I've seen a few people go to 450F but that's usually the grills max temp, and it requires a lot of dilligence to keep shit from scorching.)

      Anyway, at a more reasonable temp of 425F, a two inch steak will take like forever. No one cooks two inch steaks on a flattop grill. You'd blacken the piss out if it before the center hit room temperature. Instead, you sear them on a flame-broiler and finish them in the oven. It'd still take forever though. Probably two minutes a side on the broiler and ten minutes in a 450F convection oven.

      What's the best type of broom for cleaning up a spill of damp gerbil food? Is it nylon, polyester, horsehair, palmyra, PVC, or straw?

      Corn.

      What's a typical range of muzzle velocity of a Remington .223 rifle?

      Depends on bullet weight. Probably somewhere between 2000 and 3000 ft/s.

      How do you write a 32-bit adder in 6502 assembly language?

      You don't. An adder is a peice of hardware.

      Whats the technical flood stage of the Mississippi river at St. Louis, MO's official measuring point?

      Zero. Flood stage is always at the zero mark on the measuring device at a river.

      What's the third note of the melody in Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries?

      F# Alright, I didn't know that one off the top of my head, but I could have figured it out with a CD of a performance of the Ring and a piano.

      So there, I'm educated.

    17. Re:So... by garett_spencley · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, but I think the word you're looking for is "omniscient". Omnipotent means "all powerful". Omniscient means "all knowing".

    18. Re:So... by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also, I've never read a comment and thought to myself, "hmm, that was insightful, maybe we could play together."

      That's too bad actually. I've actually made friends on the Dot who I've actually been able to even meet in Real Life(TM) on occasion. There are many here who actively write journals, I do occasionally, but you can actually meet some very cool people through them. So, if you come across a comment that is funny, insightful, or worthy of extra reading, I'd encourage you to see if they journal, too.

      /. it for discussing news stories.

      True, which is why I think the prohibition on speaking poorly about your company would carry more import here than on on MySpace, Facebook, or Twitter even. If your company ends up in the news for all the wrong reasons, an employee posting negatively about it to slashdot would likely carry more weight than someone doing similarly on MySpace. I'm not saying that slashdotters are automatically credible, just that commentary on a news site will carry more credibility than a message on someone's "Wall."

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    19. Re:So... by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 1

      The EFF isn't going to take up a fight with a corporate policy.

      To be clear I wasn't expecting the EFF to intervene so much as that they would be aware of the type of language being used in these contracts. They may not take up the fight, they may not even try and bring publicity to it, but I'm sure they'd be interested in what is happening with these things.

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    20. Re:So... by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      Perhaps most importantly, is it even legal for them to force an existing employee into new terms of employment in his jurisdiction?

      Unless he has a contract, why not? Employment-at-will means you can fired at any time, for any reason not specifically barred by law (alas, this reason is not).

      If you demand that the terms of your employment be stable for a fixed period of time, get a contract.

    21. Re:So... by orkybash · · Score: 1

      He is educated, isn't he?

      Presumably, though not necessarily in law school. When it comes down to whether or not a contract is enforceable and what the applicable laws are, it's that background, and not one in CS or engineering, that counts.

    22. Re:So... by orkybash · · Score: 1

      I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi

      Then don't. Besides, given that knowing something is a kind of power in and of its self ("knowledge is power" and all that), omniscience could be considered a subset of omnipotence. Your correction is tautological given the original statement.

    23. Re:So... by Nethead · · Score: 1
      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    24. Re:So... by cgenman · · Score: 1

      Friend comments also get an automatic +1. If you see a commenter that find interesting, friending them will make their comments stick out from the noise.

    25. Re:So... by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      damn.
      I think my brain hurts after that...

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    26. Re:So... by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      I disagree with your steak cooking methodology...
      It will lack the proper flavor required.

      You sear the steak on the coal side of a two chamber BBQ, with the grate set 2" above the coals. Then you move the steak to the second chamber (no coals, just hot smoke) and cook for ~10 - 15 min.

      perfection.

      Other than that, I am impressed.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    27. Re:So... by Hope+Thelps · · Score: 1

      I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi

      Then don't.

      He didn't. The meaning of words is a matter of semantics, not grammar. It's a completely different form of naziism.

      --
      To summarise the summary of the summary: people are a problem. ~ h2g2
    28. Re:So... by hackerjoe · · Score: 1

      You don't. An adder is a peice of hardware.

      Since we're being smartasses, actually you do, because the 6502 only has an 8-bit adder implemented in hardware. If you want to add 32-bit numbers you need to write a sequence of add-with-carry instructions.

      Also I don't know why you'd want to use a broom at all to clean up damp pet food, I always use paper towels. Icky.

    29. Re:So... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Anyway, at a more reasonable temp of 425F, a two inch steak will take like forever. No one cooks two inch steaks on a flattop grill. You'd blacken the piss out if it before the center hit room temperature. Instead, you sear them on a flame-broiler and finish them in the oven. It'd still take forever though. Probably two minutes a side on the broiler and ten minutes in a 450F convection oven.

      This came up recently - what's the preferred method of cooking a thick steak on a grill? I can sear each side, but I figure that leaving it off to the side too long just dries it out; microwaving it works pretty well and doesn't screw up the flavor, but feels sinful. These are important things!

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    30. Re:So... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      To be fair, I guess he did specify "medium-rare" (ick).

      Around here you take a 2" steak, wave it over the grill so you can tell the women you cooked it, then you eat it.

    31. Re:So... by WNight · · Score: 1

      Consideration for new contract terms cannot be the same consideration that you accepted for your original terms.

      But, if that's true then EULAs are worthless...

      By which I mean, yes they are, and you are completely right. That's the whole point of a contract, that you can't just make bits up and tack them on later.

      Of course, if you'd like to mention that to the courts I'd appreciate it.

    32. Re:So... by bladesjester · · Score: 1

      Besides, given that knowing something is a kind of power in and of its self ("knowledge is power" and all that), omniscience could be considered a subset of omnipotence

      Not quite. Being omniscient means that you *do* know everything.

      Being omnipotent means that you can *do* anything, but not that you have to exercise that ability. Therefore you may have the *ability* to know everything, but you don't have to *exercise* it.

      For example, I am perfectly capable of hurting people (as most people are), but being a fairly nice guy, I choose not to.

      --
      Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
    33. Re:So... by u38cg · · Score: 1

      Around here, we creep up to our raw, bloody steaks, and we lovingly whisper "a candle!" to them. Then we eat them.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    34. Re:So... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      One of the friends I grew up with got married a couple of years ago. The groom had some extra time off so he went out to stay with the family for a while beforehand, to help out with wedding preparations. One day the father of the bride takes him out to the pasture and tells him to pick the cow he'd like to serve at the reception.

      The wedding was outside, and they needed benches. The day before, the father of the bride hands the groom a chainsaw, points to a tree, and tells him to get to it.

    35. Re:So... by Daryen · · Score: 1

      "What is this with involving lawyers at a simple decision point?"

      What is with his employer using their lawyers to write the document for him to agree to?

      My guess is that short of having experience working with Law, your average layman wouldn't even be able to fully understand all of the implications of this agreement.

      [By reading this comment you agree not to post any disagreement to the above statements here, on any other website, to your friends, family, or spouse, or in other private communications.]

      [Agree] [Decline]

    36. Re:So... by kabocox · · Score: 1

      What is this with involving lawyers at a simple decision point?
      He should be grown up enough to make his own, educated decision. He is educated, isn't he?

      Because most of us would actually like to click or say "no" to tons of this crap, but the only possible way that we'd be allowed to do that is with enough of the right visible back up behind us that the other side is afraid to try to mess with us over the issue.

      Let's admit it, 99% of that crap if not illegal should be. We are all mostly at will employees that they don't need excuses to remove. Why do they even need to give us all this crap giving us a slight illusion that we aren't at will employees?

      Even if we showed up with a lawyer over all the little BS that they would like to read and sign and they stopped making you sign it, don't you think they'd put you on a short list to be fired for any real valid reason that they could come up with? The real reason is that they like justifications to their boss when they fire you and can't instantly replace you with someone that can be your exact clone in that job slot.

    37. Re:So... by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      No, you wouldn't call a professional to clean up spilled pet food, except if it's spilled in a pet supply store.

      Then you'd call the janitor, who may or may not have a high-school diploma but probably could tell you which of the brooms in the back room will clean up the mess without getting the crumbly little dust particles of the gerbil food stuck to the bristles.

      See? Level of education has less to do with knowledge of a specialized area than area-specific education and training do. That's the whole damn point.

    38. Re:So... by mr_mischief · · Score: 2, Insightful

      NYCL is a New York Country Lawyer, which means he doesn't have to talk to anyone to have an attorney's opinion. Don't be surprised if you hear about him asking another attorney about something, though, because law is a broad topic. Even if he doesn't formally hire someone else as an expert in a particular kind of law, you can bet he'd run some things outside his expertise past a friend or acquaintance informally.

      The whole reason the OP posted to /. is that he isn't an expert on this sort of thing. If he feels the need to ask someone, asking an expert (a lawyer, for example) is probably better than asking the Slashdotters.

      Now, if he wanted to know the proper way to get 50 more megahertz out of his processor or the proper way to bitch about Apple or Microsoft, then this is the place to ask.

    39. Re:So... by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      How long do you cook a 2" thick steak on a 675F flat grill to get it medium rare?
      Apart from that being way too hot, I wouldn't call a 2" thick piece of meat a steak. That's a roast.

    40. Re:So... by Altus · · Score: 1

      You'd blacken the piss out if it before the center hit room temperature

      Generally, steak should be at room temperature when you start to cook it. This is certainly true of a 2" thick steak.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    41. Re:So... by Altus · · Score: 1

      Make sure the meat is at room temperature before you start cooking. dont go crazy on the cooking teperature and use indirect heat for part of the cooking process (not directly over coals / flames)

      There is debate about searing over direct heat first or cooking under indirect heat first and then searing. Either way you go, you will do better than a dried up husk of a steak that you get using direct heat the whole time.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    42. Re:So... by gasmasher · · Score: 1

      What's the proper pressure through your car's PVC valve? Your mechanic probably knows.

      My guess is he would laught at you for installing plumbing on your car when it actually needed the Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve replaced.

    43. Re:So... by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

      Perhaps most importantly, is it even legal for them to force an existing employee into new terms of employment in his jurisdiction?

      During the dot-com era, I worked somewhere that had everyone sign a non-compete agreement when they were hired. After a couple of years, two people (we'll call them Jack and Jill) left to go into business for themselves. They were very careful to follow the letter of the non-compete that they'd signed. For example, in one section everyone had promised not to engage in any competitive activity within fifty miles of Gotham City, where we were located; they started their company in Metropolis, where the first branch office had been opened. Sure enough, our next set of stock options were conditional upon signing a revised non-compete that closed that loophole. After that, every set of stock options had one or more revised agreements for us to sign; the employees called them "Jack and Jill" revisions because they usually were due to the ongoing legal actions against the two people who'd left.

      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    44. Re:So... by danilo.moret · · Score: 1

      I disagree. If one is to make an educated decision, it should be over an educated issue. If there's an EULA five thousands words long, there's too much detail to make an educated guess.

      EULAs and other agreements such as the mentioned in TFA should be less than five hundred words long, otherwise they are void unless signed by the user's lawyer as well.

      --
      ^[:wq!
  4. Big Mistake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Naturally I declined it each time until my manager complained to me about all the email he was getting about me not accepting the agreement, so I went ahead and accepted, knowing that anybody who cares would just post anonymously anyway.

    Umm, congratulations on signing away those rights. You should have told him politely that you intend to keep declining the terms, and that he should talk to the people in charge of the system about the massive amount of pointless messages it sends out which prevent real work from getting done. Simply accepting the terms because it is annoying isn't a good idea in my book.

    1. Re:Big Mistake by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      Where is the line between "being able to list this job on my resume" and "not being allowed to discuss this job at all"?

      I think they are trying to constrain an employee to disclose *facts* about his work environment. Taken to an extreme interpretation, it means he's not allowed to answer questions at a job interview. Bingo, first amendment challenge. Get a legal definition that makes a meaningful distinction between a job interview dialog and a blog posting, and have that definition somehow pass First Amendment muster. I don't believe this is possible.

      On the other hand, the special agreement probably doesn't change anything, since you probably already agreed to reasonably abide by company policies. If it's legal for them to ask you to do it, it's legal for them to fire you for refusing, at least in non-contract right-to-work situations.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    2. Re:Big Mistake by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and then he could blog about his experience filing for unemployment. Oh, not eligible because he was fired.

      This agreement should in no way prevent him from telling the same facts he could tell before he signed it. He can still talk about anything public as long as he sticks the the facts and leaves out negative OPINION. "The cocksuckers fired 50 people for no reason." is not acceptable. "50 people are no longer employed." is acceptable. Assuming the information was already public. Prior to signing the agreement, the same exact reality already existed. Call your bosses a bunch of cocksuckers and you're likely to be fired. Disclose confidential information and you're likely to be fired.

    3. Re:Big Mistake by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and then he could blog about his experience filing for unemployment. Oh, not eligible because he was fired.

      They're not going to fire him over this. The company doesn't pay him a salary as a favour to him. They pay him a salary because he does work which is valuable to them. Replacing him will cost them money.

  5. It's time for new laws to protect employees. by plasmacutter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    IIRC there are no laws preventing companies from subjecting employees to micromanagement even off the clock aside from those rendering any "indentured servitude" contracts void.

    Given the proliferation of electronic surveillance tools I think it's time to pass some, and we have a progressive president who is likely to be receptive if enough public momentum can be built.

    If you have a decent CV, i'd dump that job of yours as soon as the economy picks up, and tell them exactly why. Encourage others who are talented contributors to do the same. When the company sees its most productive members going byebye they will cease with the policy.

    Btw, grow a pair and name the company so i can avoid applying there.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:It's time for new laws to protect employees. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Shouldn't be too hard to guess.

      1 Exxon Mobil

      2 Wal-Mart Stores

      3 Chevron

      4 ConocoPhillips

      5 General Electric

      6 General Motors

      7 Ford Motor

      8 AT&T

      9 Hewlett-Packard

      10 Valero Energy

      11 Bank of America Corp.

      12 Citigroup

      13 Berkshire Hathaway

      14 International Business Machines

      15 McKesson

    2. Re:It's time for new laws to protect employees. by kpainter · · Score: 4, Funny

      Btw, grow a pair and name the company so i can avoid applying there.

      You don't have to worry. Best Buy security doormen are not subject to this new policy.

    3. Re:It's time for new laws to protect employees. by taustin · · Score: 1

      What you do on company time is certainly company business. What you do on your own time, that does not identify you as an employee, isn't.

      The only law we need is one that says that if the company wants a say in what you do, you're on the clock. Can't post whatever the hell you want (except "I work for XXX and they suck," of course), then you're on the clock 24/7, with appropriate overtime.

    4. Re:It's time for new laws to protect employees. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Since he said "Fortune 15", I assume that means they aren't in the top 10 (or he would have said that). Which would narrow it down to these 5:

      11 Bank of America Corp.

      12 Citigroup

      13 Berkshire Hathaway

      14 International Business Machines

      15 McKesson

      While I *could* imagine IBM trying something like this, I think it's much more likely that he's working for one of the fine financial institutions who keep showing up in the news as "needing" some ungodly amount of money that no one can even comprehend. I *need* food, and I need water, and shelter. I find it hard to believe that B of A *needs* 34 billion dollars. I guess this is starting to get off-topic though..

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  6. Simple Solution by vertinox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't use social networking at work.

    Secondly, don't use social networking at home with information or pictures that could identify you at least to the public.

    If you want to talk about things without retribution, you need to do it anonymously or without your real name.

    And as an aside...

    Back in the late 90's when the internet first took off, most of the internet users never used their real name for anything. Maybe we were all geeks and loved being able to role play bad asses (aka trolls) on IRC, forums, and online games, but I'm just shocked these days on how people use their real names for just about everything.

    It was assumed back then, the only way people could get to you was if they knew your real life info and now today it seems that people give it out by default without giving a second thought.

    --
    "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
    -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    1. Re:Simple Solution by An+ominous+Cow+art · · Score: 3, Informative

      In the 80s and early 90s, you saw quite a lot of real names, addresses, and phone numbers in peoples' USENET signatures. Of course most people had their accounts through school or work (or the military) and may not have had a choice of username, but it was definitely a different mindset.

    2. Re:Simple Solution by Electron · · Score: 1

      Precisely. We used to say, back then, that on the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.

    3. Re:Simple Solution by bzzfzz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The trouble is that many people participate in social networking sites where the use of real names is expected. Opting out of social networking entirely is like opting out of the banking system -- possible, but not worth it for most people.

    4. Re:Simple Solution by Celc · · Score: 1

      Maybe people realized that putting your name on the Internet doesn't mean people will show up at your doorstep and rape you. Also now that hundreds of millions of people (billions?) on the Internet there's plenty of people who share the same name.

      Except for me because someone thought it was a good idea to name me after an American comic book character, an old-Swedish middle name and a Norwegian lastname. Thanks!

      The only thing I'm really worried about is a potential future employer googling me and finding drunken rant of mine (as to say I'd tell the employer I was drunk at the time..).

    5. Re:Simple Solution by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't use social networking at work.

      That's reasonable.

      Secondly, don't use social networking at home with information or pictures that could identify you at least to the public.

      That's not. It defeats the purpose of, you know, engaging with the society through networking: how you have an identity and you identify as part of the group? Socially?

      If you want to talk about things without retribution, you need to do it anonymously or without your real name.

      Sure. But anonymity is a precious commodity, and very hard to come by these days. The point of social networking sites is to encourage openness and communication.

      One should not have to adopt the tactics of the (literally) secret society in one's spare time. Your approach reminds me of Agent Smith asking Mr. Anderson what good a phone call will do him.

    6. Re:Simple Solution by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Back in the late 90's when the internet first took off, most of the internet users never used their real name for anything. Maybe we were all geeks and loved being able to role play bad asses (aka trolls) on IRC, forums, and online games, but I'm just shocked these days on how people use their real names for just about everything.

      I honestly don't see the point in being anonymous. I take responsibility (and credit) for the things I say and write. If somebody doesn't like that they can tell me to my face. And good luck to them.

    7. Re:Simple Solution by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      I once posted my Resume on Usenet. Including Real name, Address, and Phone Number. That was many years ago and all but one of those things has changed.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    8. Re:Simple Solution by Krneki · · Score: 1

      Simple solution?
      I should remain anonymous on the Internet because I work for the wrong comapany?

      You are kidding right?

      --
      Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
    9. Re:Simple Solution by Romancer · · Score: 1

      (((Perfect Metaphor)))

      --


      ) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
      ) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
    10. Re:Simple Solution by Nethead · · Score: 1

      Sure Mister, er, Smith.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    11. Re:Simple Solution by u38cg · · Score: 1

      You're talking about AOLers. Most experienced computer users up to that point used real names, simply because the network was small enough to make posters easily traceable.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    12. Re:Simple Solution by tetrode · · Score: 1

      Or

      Change jobs. There are companies actually encouraging the use of Facebook et al. Google Facebook Friday (Sun, Serena) and I cannot imagine that those employees had to sign away their rignts.

  7. I've had similar by alitheg · · Score: 3, Informative

    Working for a well-known retailer in the UK part-time while at University, one person I know lost their job because of (or at least partly because of, there *were* other factors) comments about the company and some people working for it on a social networking site. Shortly afterwards, the guidelines on computing were revised, and everyone asked to sign them, including a section on not posting negatively about the company or its employees "for example social networking sites or web-logs (blogs)"

    1. Re:I've had similar by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Which makes it seem rather pointless - if they were able to fire them because of that, why do they need the extra slip of paper where you "agreed" not to do it?

    2. Re:I've had similar by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      That was one person. What about the next person they want to get rid of who hasn't given them an excuse^H reason?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  8. What's the name of the company? by tjstork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Go home and post anonymously. You can't hold corporations to be accountable if you do not speak out.

    --
    This is my sig.
  9. Let's see... by Orbital+Sander · · Score: 3, Funny

    You're taking their money, right? In that case, bend over and take it like a r0nc0.

    1. Re:Let's see... by JustNiz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wrong attitude.
      You have a business agreement of equals with your employer, you're not their slave.
      You give them time, they give you money. At no point do you have to or should you ever be subservient to them or give up any of your human rights, or anything else they haven't already agree to pay you for.
      Yet for some reason especially in the USA employees let their employers walk all over them, which sends the message that we're all a bunch of pussies that will put up with anything, so the employer does it even more. Basically its the fault of every employee with an attitude like yours that it can happen in the first place.

    2. Re:Let's see... by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      They're taking your work, right? In that case - oh wait.

    3. Re:Let's see... by compro01 · · Score: 2, Funny

      You have a business agreement of equals

      Yes, a single man is the "equal" of a $100+ billion corporation.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    4. Re:Let's see... by ThrowAwaySociety · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wrong attitude.
      You have a business agreement of equals with your employer, you're not their slave.

      Indeed. And, as an equal, if my employer were denigrating me in public (or semi-public), I would not hesitate to terminate all agreements with them. Thus, I do not fault them if they would do the same to me.

      You give them time, they give you money. At no point do you have to or should you ever be subservient to them or give up any of your human rights, or anything else they haven't already agree to pay you for.

      Indeed. And under no religion, or charter I am aware of is the right to be abusive without consequence a human right.

      Yet for some reason especially in the USA employees let their employers walk all over them, which sends the message that we're all a bunch of pussies that will put up with anything, so the employer does it even more. Basically its the fault of every employee with an attitude like yours that it can happen in the first place.

      I, for one, am not a pussy. I wield the ultimate power over my employer: the right to walk away if I am dissatisfied in any way, at any time. And I see nothing in the summary that would make a reasonable person exercise that right.

    5. Re:Let's see... by shentino · · Score: 1

      Indeed, one should bear in mind the unequal bargaining power of employer and employee.

      Isn't that why labor unions were invented in the first place?

    6. Re:Let's see... by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Absolutely not.
      The rights and life of a single person are way more important than the extra profits of any business entity.

    7. Re:Let's see... by garett_spencley · · Score: 1

      Comparing an individual to a corporation is like comparing an apple to a barrel of apples. Obviously they are not the same thing. But each apple in the barrel is an apple. Some are bigger. Some are smaller. Some are sweeter. Some have bruises. They are not all "equal" in every imaginable sense of the word but they all have one very important thing in common: they are all apples.

      The corporation is just a group of individuals each working towards a common goal. Each individual is unique and you cannot compare the abstract concept of the group of individuals to a single individual. But they are equal in the only way that matters. They are all humans. As humans they have certain inalienable rights. Thus they are cooperating within the organization voluntarily and can cease doing so if they choose.

      As an abstract concept, the "business" or "corporation" depends on that voluntary cooperation to produce a product or service that other individuals will find valuable. Without the individuals within it's organization producing, and without the individuals outside of the organization consuming (voluntarily as well I should add), the organization will cease functioning all together.

      Thus any policy adopted by the organization that has the effect of driving away it's voluntary producers will ultimately impede the objectives sought.

      I'm not saying that the particular policy complained about is having or will have that effect. I'm just pointing out the absurd redundancy of pointing at the "inequality" of a corporation and an individual.

    8. Re:Let's see... by garett_spencley · · Score: 1

      "Indeed, one should bear in mind the unequal bargaining power of employer and employee."

      That's not necessarily true. Generally speaking labour is a scarce resource. Even people who love their jobs find in it some disutility. So while it may be true that there are lots of people capable and willing to do a job who are currently unemployed and ready to take it, it could also be that a certain skill is hard to find or a certain position is hard to fill.

      Labour is a commodity and like all commodities some kinds are scarce and some are abundant. When a person is contemplating quitting he/she has to consider how easy it will be to find a new buyer for his/her services. His/her bargaining position will depend on the ratio of scarcity of his skill to abundance of buyers. In other words, the law of supply vs. demand.

      It's easy to look at the operating capital that the company has and assume that the company can afford to loose employees. In reality every employee is a factor in the production process. If any individual employee leaves, the company will be at a loss until they can find and train a replacement. Unless the employee was ripping the company off. In my experience those who vilify entrepreneurs and managers (in general), hate capitalism and complain about "greed" are the ones most likely to be doing just that.

    9. Re:Let's see... by __aarzwb9394 · · Score: 1

      Yet for some reason especially in the USA employees let their employers walk all over them,

      This is particularly bad in the USA because (rightly or wrongly) there is very little safety net for the unemployed.

      Also (wrongly, I would argue), no job usually means no health insurance for you or your children.

    10. Re:Let's see... by P0ltergeist333 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When did 'denigration' and 'abuse' enter into this? Any 'denigration' or 'abuse' can be addressed by slander and defamation laws. The post clearly said 'negative'. A corporation could easily consider the TRUTH to be 'negative'. While they (corporations) have a definite right to protect certain proprietary and confidential information, they have NO right to cover up immoral and / or illegal acts. It is not only the right, but the responsibility of a member of a free society to question authority. As long as you have a choice, yes, you have that right. However, when one corporation gets away with something, then others follow suit. When virtually all the corporations have the same draconian policy, then your choice, along with your right, gets taken from you. I, for one, refuse to be a sheep or a tool. * - I originally posted this anonymously, and as a result my reply was hidden. That is an answer to the people who say 'just post anonymously'. Even /. seems to frown on anonymity.

      --
      One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces. - PF
    11. Re:Let's see... by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      That's a very idealized view of markets that few modern economists hold, though. It basically assumes that all participants in markets are negligible in size relative to the overall market, so their actions can't effect it. That's not true with very large corporations that control a substantial percentage of a market. That's one reason companies merge, not just for economies of scale, but because small companies are at a disadvantage when weight is being thrown around; size gives much greater market power, which can include the power to control prices and contracts to some extent.

      That's one reason that, when dealing with large companies, industries with lots of small companies often see defensive consolidation: if you're up against a set of very large auto companies, your rag-tag bunch of parts suppliers can probably negotiate a better deal if you merge into a large parts-supply conglomerate that can throw its weight around more equally.

      Labor unions are basically the same defensive consolidation, where a bunch of independent labor-sellers join up to form a labor-selling corporation.

    12. Re:Let's see... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      As an abstract concept, the "business" or "corporation" depends on that voluntary cooperation to produce a product or service that other individuals will find valuable.

      Um, no.

      Companies are controlled by stockholders. Stockholders have absolutely no interest in the company actually making a profit. They have an interest in getting someone else to purchase the stock they own for more money.

      Ergo, they reward executive for that, not 'making a profit'. If executives raise stock prices, they get a bonus. They raise them as long as that is sustainable, the intelligent and well connected people manage to sell their stock in time, and then the price collapses, leaving the suckers who bought stock from them. Repeat until the whole system fails and the company gets bought by someone else.

      This goal might include having the company make a profit, but maybe it's easier to just lay off a bunch of people, or invent crazy new policies, or whatever.

      I'm honestly baffled by the idea that corporations are in business to make a profit. Why on earth would stockholders, which run the business, care about that, except as one of the many incidental factors that controls stock prices?

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    13. Re:Let's see... by compro01 · · Score: 1

      I think you missed my point. I did not say the corporation is more important that the person. I said that the corporation is more powerful than the person, in terms of financial power, several orders of magnitude more powerful, especially considering lawsuits, where that is magnified by the "some are more equal than others" american rule civil court system.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  10. It's the economy by bzzfzz · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It's usually the market that keeps employers from following through on ridiculous "agreements" like this.

    I believe they have increased boldness because the high unemployment makes them less concerned about how they will replace people they fire for one or another petty infraction of the rules.

  11. Lots of companies have codes of conduct/ethics/etc by netruner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And most of them are just excuses to get rid of "problem" elements should an issue arise. (proprietary data leaks come to mind)

    My employer makes us sign a code of ethics that's really just common sense - nothing really intrusive (if you end up on the front page of the local paper with your company badge on robbing an orphanage, or if you're stealing from the company or if you're falsifying paperwork, you're probably going to be fired). Other companies see it as a broad license to exert control over things they ought not.

    The only problem I've had with it is the "agree to this new requirement to keep the job you've been doing" approach. (I know, I know - fairness and uniformity)

    I wish folks would keep these agreements in mind when they get on their soapbox about "anonymous" posters being "cowards" for not putting their names to their comments. (that attitude always sounded to me like someone who was trying to figure out who to exact revenge on anyway)

    --



    DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
  12. Nothing to see here by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 1

    Ass covering exercise. If you (the worker) call $famous_person a $bad_thing it ain't their fault - it's yours.

    --
    Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
  13. Do you really need to use the portal itself? by nxtw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If possible, you could have avoided it. Where I work, the web-based resources I need aren't part of the same site and could be accessed without going through the portal.

    And if this "agreement" was only on the front page of the portal, you may have been able to bypass it by navigating to a different page within the portal.

  14. Seems normal. by SneakyMishkin · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Seems pretty straight forward to me. If you use their network, you play by their rules. Not discussing work outside of work is nothing new. You wouldn't go downtown and post internal information about your copmany on a bulletin board or telephone pole, why put it on Facebook or Twitter? Seems like this is mostly just common sense. They probably need just to have it in writing so when they fire you for being on Facebook all day they have something to cover their asses. C.Y.A. That has always been policy in any business.

    1. Re:Seems normal. by shentino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is it still ok for them to police your personal conduct when you're at home using your own network?

    2. Re:Seems normal. by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      'a's not talking about some company secrets, but just saying anything bad about the company.

  15. Poor Corporate Counsel . . . by pacergh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whoever the attorneys are for this outfit are fools. It is likely they didn't do so well in law school and had connections.

    Seriously, this is a stupid legal move for all of the reasons presented by the original poster.

    Ah well. I guess bad law students have to eat, too.

    Either that, or the managers wrote a legal-like document without understanding the law. Good for anyone who then needs to sue them later, but bad for the company.

    1. Re:Poor Corporate Counsel . . . by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 1

      On the contrary. This is bog-standard legalese. If you've ever interacted with lawyers and watched them write a document, they will come up with the broadest, most far-reaching agreement they think they can get away with it. Why? Because their job is measured by how many lawsuits their company is losing. They reduce that likelihood by putting out EULAs, TOS and other agreements that are as ideal for the company as possible.

      In other words, the people who wrote this document knew what they were doing. You don't.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    2. Re:Poor Corporate Counsel . . . by Moridin42 · · Score: 1

      Poor corporate counsel? How many hours do you think the legal team billed for drafting this particular bit of contract? how much do you suppose they bank per hour? Poor is not a term I would throw around for a large corporation's legal counsel.

      Hell, even if the lawyers knew it wouldn't be enforcable in court, why would they fight for any one else's rights? After all, they bill for drafting the agreement and then bill again for defending it in court.

      --
      I don't expect morality, equality, consistency, or justice from the law. I expect only legality.
    3. Re:Poor Corporate Counsel . . . by pacergh · · Score: 1

      Good point. I should have used the word "bad" instead of "poor."

      Sadly, the kind of lawyer who mindlessly creates these kinds of documents probably is not poor, and probably does bank quite a bit per hour.

      On the other hand, they may be corporate counsel. In that case, they get paid well, but in a salary. And they don't handle the litigation.

      Generally, you don't want your litigator writing your contracts, and vice versa. Specialization and all that.

      Anyhow, the spirit of my original comment stands: the lawyers drafting such documents don't deserve what they're paid.

      It's really not that hard to actually provide clients with good counsel that is helpful to them. It's a shame some lawyers just take shortcuts and let it all be sorted out in court.

  16. Giving away your free-speech rights by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If it really says that you can't say anything negative about anything publically, then wow.

    Most employers have clauses about saying things in public about the company that are negative, or that would, by association, put the company in a bad light.

    It's rather a tough call. For example, you're at a conference, holding court in the hallways, telling people what a crock of poop the competitions product is, in terms that are perhaps "less than professional". This calls the professionalism of your company into question.

    Whenever you're operating under your corporate persona, you are generally bound by the rules of conduct. If that is spelled out in your employment agreement as "behave nicely in public", then I think that they're merely covering all their bases by being explicit about social networking sites.

    But to broaden it, to include public statements made by you under your non-corporate persona is stretching things. If my private self spouts off about what a moron my ex wife is in a public forum, the company can hardly claim that I was speaking on behalf of the company in that context.

    The fact is, that you can contractually bind yourself to giving away some of your free-speech rights. It has been the cost of having a "mega corporation" job for a long time, since long before the Internet was big, and social networking sites were around.

    1. Re:Giving away your free-speech rights by Meshach · · Score: 2

      The first amendment says that _government_ shall pass no law that abridges free speech. That Fortune 15 company is free to do what they want.

      --
      "Maybe this world is another planet's hell"
      Aldous Huxley
    2. Re:Giving away your free-speech rights by detachable_halo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, even the company isn't limiting free speech. It's just spelling out the consequences of exercising free speech in such a way as to negatively impact the company: "Employees shall not", meaning if you do, you won't be an employee anymore. I didn't see anything about the company exacting punitive measures against the employee outside of terminating their relationship.

      I actually have the same kind of relationship with any of my friends, just not spelled out in legalese. If they talk bad about me to others, I have the absolute right to terminate my friendship with them. The difference is that it is unreasonable to expect an ex-friend to sue me for no longer being their friend. In today's litigious society, it is not unreasonable to expect someone to try and sue for being fired, even if they've been actively defaming the company.

  17. Off duty conduct policy by slimshady945 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I worked for a company that had an off duty conduct policy. It was intended, I think, for people who get arrested or convicted for things that happen while they are not at work, eg drunk driving. However (comma pause for effect) it was generally used against people who complained about their boss or work on their own time. Kind of like this.

    That company is IPC International Corporation. It's a contract security firm, so I doubt many people here would work for them, but throwing it out there just in case. It wasn't the way I would have liked to leave, but I thank G-d every day that I never have to deal with them again. It may seem like I have a lot of resentment toward them. Maybe I do... hindsight being 20/20 I should have taken unemployment and finished my degree. (which I am doing now.)

    Also that policy applied to the guards, maybe not management. Or it may be even more restrictive for management.

  18. Interal Needs vs. Externalities by davecrusoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    An agreement such as this likely covers two areas: first, badmouthing the company on social sites (it wants to protect itself) and second, using social sites for personal reasons, rather than for work-related reasoning.

    If anything is the case, sooner or later, workplaces will have to accept that social media blurs the lines between work and life even further. I'm on Facebook Causes for my workplaces, although my personal account is linked to the Facebook Causes.

    Social media policies are the knee-jerk reaction put in place by individuals who don't yet see that blurred line, nor understand how to work with, rather than against, social media services. It's still something that's being figured out, anyway, so there's an excuse (so they say).

    Cheers,
    --Dave

  19. Fortune 1000 in your Future by mpapet · · Score: 1

    1. If it it bothers you enough to post on /. find another job. Seriously, if it's not a good personal fit, then find a place that is a better fit.

    2. While you can probably work there for quite a while in this state, at some point the tension will probably do bad things to your overall physical/mental health.

    3. that you never say anything bad or negative about the company, nor do you say anything bad or negative about anything.
      I make mistakes and I'm not human perfection, so... Someone please explain how that works because I don't get it.

    4. Please, tell me the name of this glorious organization so I can steer clear of this distopia.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  20. Already under NDA? by cbuskirk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's face it the moment you were hired you were presented with the same/similar document outlining what you could and could not say about the company. This is just a friendly pop-up to remind all the kiddies just out of college that Facebook is not exempt from the NDA they didn't read.

    1. Re:Already under NDA? by Aneurysm · · Score: 1

      FTFA - "Naturally these rules are that you never say anything bad or negative about the company" Sounds like you can have a beer in the pub and discuss good new products, just not bad ones.

  21. Employment contract by janwedekind · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As far as I know it is quite normal that an employment contract forbids you to talk negatively about your company in public (during and after your employment). So they have a legal means of firing you if you simply expose corporate malpractice to the public. That can make it difficult for employees to defend themselves especially if they depend on their income.

    1. Re:Employment contract by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

      As far as I know it is quite normal that an employment contract forbids you to talk negatively about your company in public (during and after your employment). So they have a legal means of firing you if you simply expose corporate malpractice to the public.

      I wonder how that would work.

    2. Re:Employment contract by janwedekind · · Score: 1

      Well, it's a violation of the contract. Of course there may be cases where you can argue that another law overrides this.

  22. DO NOT WANT by kheldan · · Score: 1

    There's no way I'd agree to something like that, I have a right to freedom of speech!

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:DO NOT WANT by pandrijeczko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...and because you signed an employment contract that you have broken because of your free speech, then they have the right to dismiss you.

      Unfortunately, these stupid rules on social networking get enforced because some people are severely lacking in any common sense. Some 30 years ago whilst I was at school, a teacher whom I admired greatly said one of the most important things that has ever been said to me:

      "You are free to do anything you like in life but you must face up to the consequences of what you do."

      And that sums up one of the major problems with society today. Here in the UK we have rampant youth knife crime because one kid will bad mouth another kid without thinking first that he might get stabbed if he says it, for example...

      As for the Internet, it has made that situation worse - these same unthinking people get far too openly opinionated when they think that they're hidden behind a wall of anonymity, plus they're actively *encouraged* to voice opinions about every trivial thing that goes on when, in reality, very few people give a toss about their opinion.

      So yes, you have the right to say what you want - but it's no bad thing to stop and take a deep breath to think about what you are saying first...

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    2. Re:DO NOT WANT by Garbad+Ropedink · · Score: 1

      Yes you do. And your company has a right to turf you if you're badmouthing them. They'll just say 'well you clearly don't like working here based on all the comments you made on Facebook'

      It's a pain. But that's how employment works.

      --
      And that was the last Terry Fox run I ever participated in.
    3. Re:DO NOT WANT by Jeian · · Score: 1

      If you don't like your employer's terms of employment, then you're perfectly welcome to find a job somewhere else.

    4. Re:DO NOT WANT by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Fine. Whatever. Doesn't make it right. I don't give a flying FUCK if they fire me, I'll make trouble for them if they did. I'm not going to knuckle under just because they can "fire me". If nobody stands up for their rights then you effectively forfeit those rights. Fuck them, and the fucking horse they rode in on. I don't even WANT to work for a company that has a policy like that, and if enough quality people stand up to it as well companies WILL DROP IT because they'll find themselves short of quality people to hire.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  23. My employeer by djsmiley · · Score: 2, Informative

    My employeer(?) asks me to not mention who I work for on any kind of social networking site/chat rooms, but the reasoning for this is my work has implications which may lead people to believe that I am able to access things which I can't, and its a blanket request for the whole company, who I just happen to be covered with (I work in IT... lol, so unless its a request for data they are out of luck anyway)

    I'm sure if people actually read their contracts this kind of thing is pretty normal/standard but sometimes presented under another light of "I wont do anything to make the company look bad, be it while I'm working, or while im not".

    Even in my previous retail roles as a shop assistance all the contracts I've signed had this sort of agreement - covers them if you say something stupid/incriminating and they suddenly need you to "disappear" out of the company.

    --
    - http://www.milkme.co.uk
  24. Fun Code of Ethics Exercise by Greyfox · · Score: 3, Funny

    Prior to handing it in to your manager/HR person, ask them to clarify the bit about bribing foreign officials. Tell them you want to make sure that it's only for company purposes and you can still bribe foreign officials for non-company-related business. Hilarity ensues...

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  25. Looking at who's in the Fortune 15 by Nexzus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Looking at the current Fortune 15, a whole lotta those companies have been in the news. I can imagine his company wanting to minimize any amount of bad publicity they can, right down to the musings of their employees. Citigroup, in particular, who received a fair amount of bailout money, may not want it known if its rank and file employees are using extragent perks. Just an example.

    --
    Karma: Can only be portioned out by the Cosmos.
    1. Re:Looking at who's in the Fortune 15 by pla · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Looking at the current Fortune 15, a whole lotta those companies have been in the news.

      You can narrow it down more than that - No one describes themselves as a "fortune 15" company unless they failed to make the top ten... So that leaves:
      • #11, Bank of America
      • #12, Citigroup
      • #13, Berkshire Hathaway
      • #14, IBM
      • #15, McKesson

      On top of that, I'd rule out IBM and BRK, just as a gut feeling that they have a bit more sense than to reduce morale with such a useless policy.

    2. Re:Looking at who's in the Fortune 15 by CAlworth1 · · Score: 1

      Unless that is what the poster thought you would think, and so said 15, when it is really a Fortune 5 company!

      That's what I would do...

    3. Re:Looking at who's in the Fortune 15 by metamatic · · Score: 1

      IBM has had articles on the company intranet positively encouraging employees to participate in social networking sites and write public blogs. The corporate policy requires identifying that your opinions are your own and not the company's, and following the company's ethical guidelines (e.g. no misrepresentation, no astroturfing, no corporate espionage, no publishing private data, etc.) I found the terms very reasonable.

      The company has even encouraged employees to experiment with Second Life and Twitter. After all, IBM needs to understand the needs of its customers and potential customers, and how better to do that than to participate in using said parties' products?

      [Opinions mine, not IBM's.]

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
  26. sure it's enforceable. you're fired. by swschrad · · Score: 2, Insightful

    seriously, that's how MBAs see it. what it comes down to is this: if you talk, use no name. if you don't talk, you could use your name, if you could have talked.

    or you can post using library computers requiring no check-in procedure, and under the CEO's name.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  27. Re:AS your Boss by desertrat_it · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    See, "your fired" is the possessive, whereas "you're fired" is an abbreviation for "you are fired": so, my fired what? Ceramics? Weapons? Inquiring minds want to know!

  28. Re:Use the Proxomitron... by pwfffff · · Score: 1

    Do you really, seriously, legitimately believe that a judge is going to fall for that?

  29. at work only? by drdozer · · Score: 1

    Does this apply to your working hours and/or use of the work network, or does it bind you in your own time and on your own hardware?

    --
    Exceptions are like STDs. You really don't want to catch the ones you can't recover from.
  30. Rules to live by by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    1) Never give your real name or address to a one night stand, and 2) Never say anything online that can be traced back to your work persona. If you criticize your own company, it carries more weight because you are an "insider". If you criticize another company, they can sue your company because it has deeper pockets than you as an individual. Also, if you have stock in the company you work for, anything you say about the company online is probably subject to SEC rules. Conclusion: if you absolutely have to facebook, create a separate private and career persona. Don't associate any information with the private persona that links it to your real name or career (trust me, you wouldn't be the first person that has ever lied about their personal details in their facebook profile!).

    Not that it applies to anyone here, but the Michael Phelp's Corollary also applies: If millions of people recognize your face, you should be extremely careful about where and with whom you engage in embarrassing practices like taking bong hits. And the Paris Hilton corollary: Never, ever, under any circumstance, allow yourself to be recorded while having sex, or even while displaying your naughty bits. Think about it: is a cheap necklace of mardi gras beads really worth the embarrassment of showing up in a "Girl geeks gone wild!" video?

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Rules to live by by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 1

      Never, ever, under any circumstance, allow yourself to be recorded while having sex, or even while displaying your naughty bits. Think about it: is a cheap necklace of mardi gras beads really worth the embarrassment of showing up in a "Girl geeks gone wild!" video?

      If it's really true that 20% of all teenagers have sent naked pictures of themselves to another person's cellphone then in less than a generation it won't matter anymore.

      Once a certain fraction of the population has naked pictures of themselves floating around the internet it will no longer be scandalous.

    2. Re:Rules to live by by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      You obviously don't have kids. Ever imagine trying to teach you teenage daughter to behave herself when she can easily find picture of her mom drinking, doing drugs, and flashing her naughty bits (or worse) on the 'net? "Mommy, why does Google show 1,967,000 hits for your name associated with something called a 'blow job'???"

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    3. Re:Rules to live by by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Like it or not that is what is happening.

      It's not like human beings haven't been drinking, doing drugs and flashing naughty bits since before recorded history. Only now we can create permanent, accessable records of all of it.

      I won't argue that this is a good change, just that it is an inevitable one.

      When the time comes that a Google search will find naked pictures of 1/5 (1/3, 1/2, 3/4) of the population then those activities will no longer be viewed in the same way that they are viewed today.

    4. Re:Rules to live by by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Sure, tits are tits, and this is a cultural taboo with no basis in reality. However, I strongly suspect that those pictures of you in flagrante delicto floating around the 'net might be harmful to your chances at being appointed a deacon in your church later in life. Personally, I believe the vast majority of people are actually more attractive with their clothes on. If nothing else, getting caught drunk with your shirt pulled up demonstrate extremely poor judgment, certainly not a quality I look for in employees. Unless you work for the RIAA, I suspect your employer feels the same way. However, you are welcome to perform the experiment of sending your boss pictures of yourself in the buff, and please tell me how it works out for you!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    5. Re:Rules to live by by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      And the Paris Hilton corollary: Never, ever, under any circumstance, allow yourself to be recorded while having sex, or even while displaying your naughty bits.

      If she wasn't so drugged out, I'd say maybe she did it deliberately to get some exposure. Of course, she didn't look so stoned in 1999, so who knows?

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    6. Re:Rules to live by by Jedi+Alec · · Score: 1

      Think about it: is a cheap necklace of mardi gras beads really worth the embarrassment of showing up in a "Girl geeks gone wild!" video?

      What kind of a stupid question is that? Where the fuck do I sign up?! And you can keep the necklace too...

      --

      People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
  31. Aaaargh! by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

    What's a typical range of muzzle velocity of a Remington .223 rifle?

    African or European?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:Aaaargh! by hotdog.sk · · Score: 1

      What's a typical range of muzzle velocity of a Remington .223 rifle?

      African or European?

      I think loaded vs. unloaded would make bigger difference...

    2. Re:Aaaargh! by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

      Are you trying so say, 'until what range does the .223 Remington maintain it's muzzle velocity?'

      No, GGP isn't trying to say anything like that. But you're saying that you desperately need to have a look at a dictionary:

      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/range

    3. Re:Aaaargh! by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      You're an idiot. Do you really think every .223 caliber rifle fires every different .223 caliber cartridge with different weights, powder charges, and projectile types at the exact same muzzle velocity?

      You do know, of course, since you attempt to be so condescending, that if you see a single rating for muzzle velocity then that is measured using a recommended round or is the average of several tests, right?

      You do know that different rifles firing the same Remington .223 ammo may have different muzzle velocities, due to chamber shape, gas venting muzzle brakes, and upward-venting recoil compensation, right?

      Come on, AC, if you're going to be a condescending troll you'll need to do better than that.

  32. Social networking, no. Copyrights, yes. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    One company I worked for required that we list all our copyrights, websites and other intellectual content to avoid any conflicts with the company policy that any idea that pops into your head at work or at home belonged to the company. Several people offered to quit outright over the policy, others got clever by listing the URLs of every Slashdot they ever posted, and some threaten to sue. This soon became an unmanageable mess that the company was forced to drop the policy.

    1. Re:Social networking, no. Copyrights, yes. by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

      One company I worked for required that we list all our copyrights, websites and other intellectual content to avoid any conflicts with the company policy that any idea that pops into your head at work or at home belonged to the company. Several people offered to quit outright over the policy, others got clever by listing the URLs of every Slashdot they ever posted, and some threaten to sue. This soon became an unmanageable mess that the company was forced to drop the policy.

      Um....I think that policy kind of helps protect you, as long as it's not worded as "we own absolutely everything you list here, even if you can prove prior art later" (which wouldn't be enforceable if they did).

      I've signed such a thing - didn't have much to list, but it ain't a bad thing to have important non-company IP listed in black and white prior to being hired.

    2. Re:Social networking, no. Copyrights, yes. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      The emphasis of this particular policy was that the company owned you while working there. I signed some nasty NDAs over the years, but none of them claimed rights to my intellectual property developed on my own time and equipment.

    3. Re:Social networking, no. Copyrights, yes. by sjames · · Score: 1

      Don't forget the napkin doodles, the fingerpainting you did when you were 3, etc. It's all copyrighted unless you specifically disavow it.

      OTOH, if they claim ownership of any work you come up with while employed there, produce the filthiest, most offensive, and obscene works you can possibly image, then proclaim loudly (and truthfully) to the world that they are (c) your employer (but only if you plan to resign).

    4. Re:Social networking, no. Copyrights, yes. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Part of my job was to spot and removed such offending materials. The programmers and artists got very creative with this policy.

  33. Ask about golf. by Animats · · Score: 1

    Ask if the "social networking" restrictions apply while playing golf.

  34. "anything bad or negative about anything" ??? by RexDevious · · Score: 1

    Would that include speaking disapprovingly of negative comments about the company? Or natural and man made disasters?

    Seems to me you protest that you simply can't in good conscious refuse to NOT say anything bad about either 9/11, or your supervisor's tragic and daily bouts with STD's. But you *will* cheerfully agree to their terms when they give you a specific list of things, actions, situations, ideas, and adjectives about which are not to say negative things about - and given you adequate time to commit the list to memory.

  35. You work for a lawyer-douchey company by erroneus · · Score: 1

    Your choices should be:

    1. Don't do any browsing at work at all
    2. Bring your own gear (Say like a nice Dell mini 9) and use mobile wireless. If this isn't allowed at work, go to choice #1 and get over it.

  36. The right way to handle this by davidwr · · Score: 1

    The right way to handle company policy is NOT to have you sign an "agreement" but rather have you sign an acknowledgment that you have read the policy. By taking their check, you've already agreed to comply with any and all legally enforceable company policies.

    Wrong:
    "I agree not to speak negatively about the company. Sign one of these: ___Yes ___no"

    Right:
    "It is against company policy to speak negatively about the company. Violations of company policy can result in disciplinary action including termination. Sign here: ___ Acknowledged"

    It's a bit heavy-handed but at least there's no pretending you "agree" to anything.

    If your company's way of doing business bothers you, circulate your resume. Just use a headhunter who can do it anonymously and don't be so detailed that your own company's recruiters spot you.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  37. umm by shentino · · Score: 1

    Why is this not in the YRO section?

  38. Company restrictions on social networking by managerialslime · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Restrictions on social networking may be an example of the "new" technology-driven world reflecting what has always been policy at many large companies.

    Thirty years ago, my boss forced me to fire someone who was a member of a social group (outside of work that) my boss found to be objectionable. Mind you, this employee never opened his mouth or said anything unprofessional at work.

    My boss took me aside and explained to me that like it or not, every employee's "personal life" could always be construed as a representation of the employer and so any publicly controversial image was grounds for termination.

    What I found out then and is even more true in the US today, is that as long as your reason for firing someone is not directly based on their age, race, officially recognized religion, country of national origin, or recognized handicap, that you can pretty much fire them for any other reason (or non-reason), work-related or not.

    Some of the freedoms for the "pursuit of happiness" in the US are reserved for the unemployed and entrepreneurs.

    I accepted this reality early in my career. It is not the bravest position. Then again, I am not the bravest of people.

    --
    Live Long and Prosper - Thanks Leonard. You are missed.
    1. Re:Company restrictions on social networking by BUL2294 · · Score: 1

      What I found out then and is even more true in the US today, is that as long as your reason for firing someone is not directly based on their age, race, officially recognized religion, country of national origin, or recognized handicap, that you can pretty much fire them for any other reason (or non-reason), work-related or not.

      What rock have you been under? In the US, you can hire or fire anyone for any reason you choose, as long as your reasoning has nothing to do with a "protected class" (i.e. race, gender, ethnic group, religion, etc). You can discriminate all you like--unless there's a law against it. If someone with brown pants gave you the finger on your way to work, you can go and fire the first employee you find with brown pants--although that employee would probably win an unemployment claim and have the last laugh... If it's not protected (right or wrong, sexual orientation is not protected in most states), it's a valid reason.

      --
      Windows 3.1x calc: 3.11 - 3.10 = 0.00
  39. You went ahead and accepted? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    You went ahead and accepted even though you knew it was wrong.
    Its people like you that make employers think that this sort of shit is even a possibility.
    Good luck with whatever even more restrictive crap they now put you through just because you caved like a pussy the first time.

  40. gotcha policy by rpillala · · Score: 1

    The policy is so broad as to be unenforcable?

    This says to me that anyone at a suitable rank in your company can initiate disciplinary action against an employee who uses social networking. The policy isn't designed to be enforced or even to change anyone's behavior. It almost seems designed to be abused.

    --
    When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
  41. Feels like a Better Off Ted commercial. by fooslacker · · Score: 1

    Veridian Dynamics, Forcing you to do what's right... ...for us.

  42. The irony!!!! by rts008 · · Score: 1

    He's an Australian crayfish? You did know that's what a marron is, did you not?

    Or perhaps you meant to say that you are a moron?

    --
    Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  43. Can You say "Domino's & YouTube" by getaherrumph · · Score: 1

    The string cheese incident with the Domino's employees is going to have quite a number of employers adding social networking to their "acceptable use" boiler plate.

  44. Dumb, dumb, dumb by jc42 · · Score: 1

    So your company doesn't want to hear about bug reports, UI problems, security issues, etc.

    How dumb can a company's management be?

    On numerous occasions, I've bought something partly because the vendor was open about problems. If a company pretends that there are no problems with its products, I suspect that they're suppressing news about something really awful.

    (Note that I've avoided any Microsoft bashing. ;-)

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  45. The Corporation's POV by MarkvW · · Score: 1

    What is the corporate workspace? If the corporate workspace includes social networking sites, then the corporation damn well better try to regulate employee behavior on those websites. If it doesn't, then the corporation may find itself liable for the acts of its employees on those sites.

    Besides, any business has a right to fire anybody who contradicts the company line and thereby damages the company. Companies don't need to clutch vipers close to their breasts, that's for sure.

    All the complaining wage slaves posting in this thread ought to put themselves in the shoes of an entrepreneur running a new company. If THEIR business was threatened, then they'd look at things in a different light.

    While I'm ranting, it's the same thing with the copyright complainers. If THEY independently created something productive, useful and profitable, you can be darn sure that they'd be ranting against the thieves stealing their work.

  46. Nothing to do with First Amendment by marcus · · Score: 2, Informative

    The FA of the US Constituition regulates the government, specifically the Congress but after interpretation the whole federal gov. The gov can't stop you from talking, especially about the gov itself. It has nothing to say about private parties, who can say what, where, when, and what the consequences are if for instance, you badmouth your boss while off work and he finds out about it.

    Here is a decent summary.

    --
    Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
    - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
    1. Re:Nothing to do with First Amendment by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      However, employment contracts still can't can't keep you from being able to get a job. You have a fundamental right to be employed somewhere, and a current job cannot make you sign things that would make it impossible for you to get a job elsewhere.

      Even NDAs and non-competes have to be fairly strictly worded and contained to a small subject matter.

      It's not a first amendment issue, though. 'The right to be able to get gainful employment if someone wants to hire you' is not explicitly listed anywhere. Although an argument could be made it counts as 'servitude', because everyone needs a job, and if you can't change your jobs, you're in servitude.

      If a contact stops you from being able to talk abut your job at all, solely for the public relations benefit of the company, (As opposed to legitimate protection of actual trade secrets.), it could, indeed, be shot down in court on the grounds it makes it unnecessarily difficult to get another job.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  47. it won't be enforced by j1mmy · · Score: 1

    corporations have policies to cover their corporate asses in legal situations. aside from that, nobody in the management chain gives a damn about this policy or most of the others you've agreed to.

  48. Well Said by marcus · · Score: 1

    It's about time some folks with spines showed up.

    --
    Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
    - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
    1. Re:Well Said by P0ltergeist333 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, imagine the sheer audacity of these serfs for wanting something as worthless as freedom of speech. You know if an employee is talking about their company, they are surely doing so in the interest of denigrating and abusing their employer! (HEAVY sarcasm, in case you're like the folks who think Colbert really is a neo-con) If I thought like you two, I would have to change my name to Stanley.

      --
      One of these days I'm going to cut you into little pieces. - PF
  49. They can always make you agree to anything. by cvtan · · Score: 1

    Whatever it is, if you don't go along, then your boss gets harassed because his people are not in compliance with corporate policy. His pay might be affected and it will be YOUR fault. This kind of pressure works well because you are likely to be friends with your immediate supervisor. Show me where to sign on the petition to resume clubbing baby seals (only the cute ones).

    --
    Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
  50. Slashdot "friend" isn't a social tag. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Slashdot does have a "friend" concept. I'm sure it's underutilized (and hopefully all dev time is spent elsewhere if that's true), but that gives it a social aspect.

    Slashdot "friend" isn't a social tag. It's just the word they used for setting a bit that says "I'm more likely to want to see what this poster has to say than the general users' moderation would predict. So:
      - show it to me at a lower moderation level,
      - tag it with a colored dot to attract my attention, and
      - also tag other posters that THIS poster has similarly tagged that HE wants to see."

    That doesn't necessarily translate to the social meaning of "friend" (though it's likely to be positively correlated). For instance: While most of the people I've tagged as "friends" are, based on their online statements, also people I'd probably want to actually befriend, there are a couple that I tagged because they have opinions that diverge wildly from mine but are interestingly reasoned and/or phrased.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Slashdot "friend" isn't a social tag. by coolsnowmen · · Score: 1

      That is exactly what I was thinking.

  51. I would just quit. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    I would not accept that kind of rule. What I do outside my work hours is my own business, and nobody else's. As long as I am not slandering or libeling my company or the workers there, it is nobody's business what I do on my own time. (And if I were, that would be legally actionable anyway.)

    This is how I would present it to management: If they want to tell me what to do when I am "off work", then they can pay me for that time too. If they want to do that, fine. If they don't, too bad.

    If they are telling me what to do, then I am at work. Period. I would not let them have it both ways.

    1. Re:I would just quit. by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      In this economy we all talk big but when it comes down to it.

    2. Re:I would just quit. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      If you don't stand by what you believe in, what good are you?

  52. An Employers view by cenc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First thing I did was firewall off most of the major social networking sites. Which for the most part cures the problem for everyone concerned. Anyone trying to get around that, would be fired anyway just for trying.

    Second, I notified anyone I catch using one of those sites from my network that they get three strikes and they are fired, unless they have express permission. Accidentally ending up on one for whatever reason does happen. Just don't hang out there at work.

    Third, I really don't care what they do on social networking site on their own time, but I definitely care what they disclose about my buisness on the social networking site. They need express authorization to discuss anything work related on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter.

    This is not about censorship, this is about security and violation of their confidentiality agreement. None of my employees are qualified to make judgments about what can and can not be disclosed on the internet about my buisness.

    I don't want to Google things related to my buisness and find out I got knocked off the top of the search engines with a bunch of comments from employees. That includes flattering comments.

    What is our number one hands down tried and true technique for breaching any sort of security? SOCIAL ENGINEERING!!!

    So, you want freedom of speech, you can have all you want at the next job; but, you still will not be able to discuss my company because it is also in the confidentiality agreement. The one I pay employees for complying with not just as a condition of employment, but as a major part of the job description.

    1. Re:An Employers view by /dev/trash · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So how many people still work for you?

    2. Re:An Employers view by cenc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Strangely, I have never had to fire anyone for it. In fact I have only had to warn one or two people, and that was mostly back when I discovered it had the potential to be a problem.

      People got along just fine before social networking sites. You really can live without them for a few hours out of the day.
           

    3. Re:An Employers view by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      Third, I really don't care what they do on social networking site on their own time
      Are these people on salary? If so, there isn't any real distinction between what's your time vs. their time -- office hours are just when you can expect to find them somewhere specific.

      I do a lot of web browsing at work, and my most effective way to do a lot of work tasks is lying on my bed at home with a code printout and a pen.

  53. Good luck by danwesnor · · Score: 1

    The agreement doesn't have to be enforceable, they just have to be willing to spend more on lawyers then you are. That's a fight they're pretty sure they can win.

  54. If it's a big company, I'd expect it by karaage · · Score: 1

    If I was asked to do this by a start-up, I'd feel I have a right to be annoyed. But not a Fortune 15 company. Managing such a large number of employees requires specific contracts and agreements.

  55. I've Written A Few Of These Policies by forbin_meet_hal · · Score: 1
    More than I can probably count, actually.

    There are good policies and bad ones.

    The characteristics of good ones are:

    - They're framed in terms of protecting the employee FIRST (coming to a mutual understanding of acceptable behavior), *then* the company.

    - They don't insult the employee's intelligence.

    - They're simple.

    - They don't attempt to squelch free speech and *only* seek to put guidelines around online behavior of-or-concerning the company (which isn't an unreasonable request).

    - They're *integrated* into current HR policies and handbooks, not treated as an inelegant bolt-on.

    - They don't fall prey to the fallacy that the online world excuses behavior that is reasonably considered bad form in the offline world.

  56. This isn't anything new by 0xbeefcake · · Score: 1

    It's not unusual for a company to have a code of conduct that isn't part of your official contract. The rules in it may not mention social networking, but the principles are the same - non-binding guidelines on being a "good corporate citizen".

    And to be frank, anyone publicly airing "insider" information about their employer doesn't have leg to stand on. With the exception that if it was someone acting as a whistleblower concerning illegal events. But there are laws for those cases in western nations at least.

  57. What you can(n't) say by bobs011 · · Score: 1

    Not sure what the issue is ... corporate IT resources, and how they are used, are always! within the control of the company. And, in most states in the U.S., high tech employees can have their employment terminated at any time for any reason. So ...not sure why you need work access to internet postings that would put you in this situation. But I think people are just not happy about having to agree to an agreement. To me the real issue is that you can have your employment terminated when you state your own [negative] opinion about a company on your own nickel!

  58. Re:Lots of companies have codes of conduct/ethics/ by Dan541 · · Score: 1

    I wish folks would keep these agreements in mind when they get on their soapbox about "anonymous" posters being "cowards" for not putting their names to their comments.

    Obviously you shouldn't sign the company name unless your working for them at the time. However your company does not own rights to the name you where given at birth. How people choose to identify themselves is a personal choice.

    --
    An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
  59. Am I really dense this morning? by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

    Why was this modded funny? I absolutely don't get the joke.

    The range of MV of any round is dependent on lots of things; in full-pressure loadings, mostly the bullet weight and barrel length. But there are dozens of factors that can come into play. So the question is legit. "If you fire a .223 through a chonograph, what range of readings can you expect?" is a reasonable, if esoteric, question.

    In the U.S., the answer would normally be expressed in feet per second. I assume that in both Europe and Africa, the answer would be expressed in meters per second. So what's the humorous contrast between Africa and Europe?

    The GP was listing esoteric questions to illustrate a point and this one seems to fit that bill. So I don't get why the "African or European" response was modded funny. I just don't get it. Somebody help me out.

    BTW - Who said "Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. No one enjoys it and the frog dies."?

    1. Re:Am I really dense this morning? by BranMan · · Score: 1

      It's a Monty Python reference from the Holy Grail movie. And for that, you get a WHOOSH!

  60. If they are going to fire you over your comments by internerdj · · Score: 1

    how do they expect your comments to turn out after the whole firing thing... Now you have someone who was already pointing out flaws online who is actually pissed at the company and not having his career held over the fire.

  61. Answer, if you're seriously asking the question by bebemochi · · Score: 1

    Not sure if you're being brilliantly disingenuous, but your aside at the end leads me to believe that there's a possibility you honestly don't get it. (That and the fact that I met someone in real life who'd never seen, nor even heard of, "The Princess Bride" two days ago, and who was being utterly serious with me.) It's funny because it refers to a running joke in Monty Python's The Holy Grail:
    Scene 1, swallow carrying a coconut
    And spoiler alert if you've not seen the movie, don't read this (it really is much better to experience the dénouement by watching the film): Scene 23, the Bridge of Death

    1. Re:Answer, if you're seriously asking the question by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

      Thanks. No, I honestly don't get it. I know what Monty Python is though I was never a huge fan; my ready knowledge of their work is pretty much limited to the spam sketch and The Ministry of Silly Walks. I might have been more of a fan if back when I was a kid there had been a PBS station near enough to me for me to receive their signal. As it was, I got no Monty Python, no Sesame Street, etc. Sometimes, people make references to those shows and I'm just lost. Apparently that's what happened in this case. (I *love* The Princess Bride, tho.)

      There's a limit to how much time I should waste at work, so when I get home tonite, I'll check the links you provided.

      Sincerely - thanks.

  62. the thing is.... by vuffi_raa · · Score: 1

    if they fire you for not signing it you are free to say or do whatever you like in regards to the company so long as it isn't defaming or libelous, that is to make things up and as long as you don't violate any NDS, so if you wanted to you could start a website or blog based on it if you so desire, as well it might just be a good idea to start a site for ppl to post about shitty experiences that they have had working with companies. So long as there is an EULA that you sign when signing up to post (that states that you are not responsible for anything said) you could not be held for anything that others post. Personally I would love to see a comprehensive database of companies and worker experience/ratings/comments that you could search before working at a job.

  63. Null and Void by polaris408 · · Score: 1

    IANAL, but by the sound of it, you could probably make the case that because your boss complained to you about it that you were under duress - the implication being that you would have lost your job had you not accepted the agreement, thus nullifying the agreement itself. Furthermore, I assume you signed a contract when you started working for your company stating "I will show up to work in accordance with these measures for the compensation of $x per year." This agreement would be an amendment to the previous agreement, but since you're not being compensated additionally in any other way, there's no consideration on your part, thus further nullifying the agreement itself. Honestly, we should have to take basic classes in contract law. I'd argue that these days it's almost as important as balancing your checkbook.

  64. Humans v. robots by professorguy · · Score: 1

    The safest bet is to just not use your real name when blogging, and not let the company find out.

    OK, mark it. Loss of human dignity occurred at 18:29 Tuesday.

    I'm sorry, did they want to hire a human or a robot? If they wanted a robot, they should build one. Oh, they can't get a current robot to do everything they need done? Well, I guess they have to hire a human then. And that means they GET a human and not a robot.

    I'm human, dammit. The company can replace me with a less problematic robot once one exists. Until then, they can take their dehumanizing bullshit and cram it.

  65. fortune 15 huh? by MooseTick · · Score: 1

    You say you work for a fortune 15 company. Well, from this link (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2008/full_list/) #15 is IBM. I find it likely that is where you work. If you had said a fortune 100, or even 50 it wouldn't be so obvious. The only more obvious thing you could say would be "I work for a fortune 17 company that I can't name" or "I work for an undisclosed fortune 1 company."

  66. Social Networking OUTLAWED, all talk regulated! by PurplePhase · · Score: 1

    At a Fortune 500 company I was at early this year near the end of my stay they suddenly came out with a few regulations during our group's sexual harassment "seminar":

    1. You are not allowed to do ANY social networking while at work

    2. Anytime you are in public and anyone can recognize you as an employee (even if there is no visible or audible means), you need to talk and behave as if you are an employee

    3. And they removed any non-regulated means of electronic communication from the internal networks.

    I'd already realized the company was no good for me, but this just seemed insane! Even if it is just an excuse to be able to fire people... this is not a business practice, this is discrimination and, well, I'm not sure what all. Fascism?

    8-PP

  67. Right to work state? by davidwr · · Score: 1

    If you live in a right-to-work state, also known as a right-to-fire-without-cause state, your job is pretty much at the whim of your employer unless you are under a union or individual contract.

    There are a few things you can't be fired for, like gender or race, but if you don't follow legally enforceable parts of company policy they can get rid of you without cause, and can make a pretty good case for a for-cause termination for insubordination if they don't want to pay you unemployment benefits.

    By the way, the "agreement" can be as simple as HR telling you before you start "here's the employee manual. You won't be allowed to clock in until you turn in this sheet acknowledging that it's policy and that we can fire you if you violate it. Furthermore, we can amend policy any time with reasonable notice. If that bothers you we can rescind your job offer right now, or you can resign at any time." The minute you clock in you've just agreed to abide by the policy subject to for-cause termination if you do not.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  68. Signing that agreement is called... by macraig · · Score: 1

    ... drinking the corporate Kool-Aid. It's institutionalized groupthink.

    Just say no to that shit, and yes to freethought, honesty, and full disclosure.