Is Playing a DVD Harder Than Rocket Science?

dacut writes "After successfully repairing the Hubble Space Telescope, astronauts aboard the shuttle Atlantis found themselves with a free day due to thunderstorms which delayed their return. They attempted to pass the time by watching movies, only to find that their laptops did not have the proper software, and Houston was unable to help. No word, alas, on what software was involved, though we can assume that software/codec updates are a tad difficult when you're orbiting the planet at 17,200MPH."

Comments

VLC

[jeffhenson]

Too bad vlc wasn't part of their default software.

Re:VLC

[rxan]

I was just going to say, shoulda got VLC. My buddy had a DVD that wouldn't even play on DVD players or a PS2. Got VLC, no problem.

Re:VLC

[fractoid]

Isn't there a small issue with this being a government-funded space mission, and VLC being somewhat in breach of the DMCA or software patents or something due to its inclusion of a not-paid-up DVD decoder? I may be out of date on this issue, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have VLC for the same reason they wouldn't encode mp3s with LAME.

Re:VLC

[Opportunist]

And that's why Russian spacecraft will always outlast US spacecraft. They may be prone to a wee bit more error, but in general you get the feeling the underlying idea is "screw protocol, what matters is it works!"

But then again... After all, the Soviet Union also failed because sticking to doctrine and doing it "the marxist way" was more important than logic, reason and real life requirements (amongst other shortcomings). It could now be the downfall of "our western" system as well. It doesn't matter anymore what is logic, reasonable or actually required. It seems more and more "looking good" and "doing the 'right' thing" is more important than accomplishing anything.

Re:VLC

[fractoid]

Plus the Russians will always be more relaxed because, you know, they've got cool tunes to listen to.

Actually, I think lack of respect for patents and copyright laws is probably one of the big drivers in the Chinese economic boom. Because there's no artificial limitations on what you can build and sell, all manner of artefacts are effectively 'open source'.

Re:VLC

[earlymon]

Too bad vlc wasn't part of their default software.

Yeah - too bad. Ever read about the legal use of this?

...there is not need to obtain any patent licenses for VideoLAN software within the European Union...

Is libdvdcss legal?

The use and distribution of the libdvdcss library is controversial in a few countries such as the United States because of a law called the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act). If you are unsure about the legality of using and distributing this library in your country, please consult your lawyer.

Beware: VLC media player binaries are distributed with the libdvdcss library included.

From http://www.videolan.org/support/faq.html

You know - NASA - American tax dollars - legal. Or maybe it's NASA's job to have one of their lawyers figure out of it's OK. Or challenging the stupidity of the DCMA should have been part of the mission while they were just, ya know, tooling around, fixing the Hubble.

Yep - too bad it wasn't part of their default software.

Re:VLC

[sentientbeing]

The DMCA doesnt apply outside US borders.

Re:VLC

[sumdumass]

Yes and no. The DMCA applies to WIPO countries which have signed onto the WCT and the WPPT. the penalties might not be the same but the countries are obligated to the effects of the DMCA because it was pulled almost directly from those two treaties less the punishments.

This is how the US was able to extradite an Australian citizen to America for a violation of it. This is also why you see a lot of countries attempting to implement DMCA style laws.

Re:VLC

[Opportunist]

No, duh, you think? You think it could be cheaper to manufactor if you don't pay a sponger who essentially doesn't add jack to the production process?

Re:VLC

[hughk]

EU countries for example, have the reverse engineering exemption. If we have te right to use data, we can use whatever technical means to get at that data including reverse engineering for interoperability. The US doesn't like this and has been trying to force a change but it seems that it isn't going to happen.

Re:VLC

[Jeff DeMaagd]

VLC isn't that good. People promote it even though, possibly because they don't know any better. The people that know better seem to recommend the KMPlayer.

Re:VLC

[drizek]

Of course, one of the biggest obstacles to linux adoption is that Windows is effectively "open source".

True, you can't actually see or modify the source code, but something tells me you probably wouldn't want to.

And yes, VLC is awesome. I have tried virtually every other media player and not a single one even comes close. mplayer, zoomplayer, media player classic, mpc home cinema, xbmc, wmp, quicktime(lol), and more. Features like being able to crop to aspect ratio are really useful. Dealing with DVDs is really great too. Not only can it play any DVD known to man, it can change audio and subtitle tracks seamlessly. MPC spazzes out every time you change the subtitle track, and even then it doesn't usually change it properly anyway.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, one of the biggest obstacles to linux adoption is that Windows is effectively "open source".

That's the stupidest thing I ever heard. You are full of shit.

Re:VLC

[gnapster]

But borders extend vertically for an arbitrary distance. So, they'd have needed to pause playback for a couple minutes from time to time.

Re:VLC

[CarpetShark]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have VLC for the same reason they wouldn't encode mp3s with LAME.

Because it would remind the nautical types of their ancestors' history with eye-patches and wooden legs?

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

the space shuttle is a US registered spaceship/rocket/glider, so while in flight by international treaties it is considered US territory for most legal purposes.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the US actually have Jurisdiction in space?
The DMCA is a US law, outside of the US it has no affect. Software Patents are also bound to certain jurisdictions and in some countries aren't permitted at all.

On a related note I have always wondered why a group of film companies banding together to force software vendors to license decoding keys from a single provider doesn't constitute Cartelling.

Re:VLC

[SigmundFloyd]

I tried both and, honestly, VLC sucks less than *mplayer.

And both don't come close to Apple's DVD Player and QuickTime Player.

Re:VLC

[Yvanhoe]

Infosocialism at its finest.

Re:VLC

[freedom_india]

No, itsn't it.
VLC actually uses dual-core chips effectively. MP Classic doesn't care.
Secondly, VLC opens up a lot faster than MP does.
The only thing faster and could play anything i threw at it was Windows 7 Media player.
Oddly, that is 32-bit on a 64-bit OS. Figure it out.

Re:VLC

[Rogerborg]

It's also cheaper to manufacture something if you don't have to pay your own design, research, development and marketing costs, and just clone someone else's work and sell into the market that they created.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it isn't. Firstly, VLC and MPC have different design goals - VLC is designed to be a standalone media streaming platform, whereas MPC is designed to be a simple, kitchen-sink-included media player. It just happens to be that VLC is a fairly decent (if not daunting and ugly) local media player. Secondly, MPC does not have a non-windows port, whereas VLC works on nearly everything - something that makes MPC extremely inferior for cross-platform users (eg, Apple users who may find themselves trapped on a windows PCs, ultra-portable platforms, homebrew linux-based media servers, etc). Next you'll be telling us that a Prius is "better" than a Big Rig. Please keep your ill-informed nonsense to yourself, thanks.

Re:VLC

[JasterBobaMereel]

Borders extend vertically only in US law, not in the rest of the world .... .. another law that does not apply outside the USA

Re:VLC

[mike2R]

Actually, I think lack of respect for patents and copyright laws is probably one of the big drivers in the Chinese economic boom. Because there's no artificial limitations on what you can build and sell, all manner of artefacts are effectively 'open source'.

It's a sensible way to develop an economy. Which is why the US didn't recognise foreign copyrights or patents until 1891.

Re:VLC

[TheRaven64]

Aircraft and ships come under rules similar to embassies of their country of registration and so that country's laws apply inside. I presume the same is true of spacecraft. They could use VLC if they took their laptop on a spacewalk though...

Re:VLC

[gnapster]

Well, of course that does not apply for the few moments when they are passing over the Indian Ocean (say); that was my point, although it didn't come across well. Here is a hypothetical related question: do the laws of Rhode Island apply for the instant that it takes for them to pass over that postage stamp of land?

They are US Citizens in a US spacecraft, and (at the moment that I suggest they ought to pause decoding) their orbit is passing over US soil. If any law applies, it is US law. Or can you get away with murder in space?

Re:VLC

[tnnn]

Of course, one of the biggest obstacles to linux adoption is that Windows is effectively "open source".

He called it "open source" not an open source.
Just look at it from outside - if we forget about the open source part (that is the ability to look at the code) what is left? On window$ you can use any media player you desire, even if this means breaking several licenses/laws. In fact, you can usually use any software you desire - many open projects have their windows ports and many windows apps cannot be run (without problems) on open platforms. Of course you will be using several layers of code that is closed but simply - most people don't care. And don't forget that for many users window$ is also a "free" software - either by cracking it or by getting it "for free" with a new pc. So if people don't care about ability to see the code, get windows for "free" and can run more things than on a truly open platform - why choose linux (or any other free os)?

Re:VLC

[PsychoSlashDot]

It's also cheaper to manufacture something if you don't have to pay your own design, research, development and marketing costs, and just clone someone else's work and sell into the market that they created.

That's an interesting point. Manufacturing your widget in North America might cost X per widget. Having it mass-produced in a Chinese fab might cost X/2. But if the Chinese factory leaks your specs and a knock-off is released into your market, reducing your profits, that impacts your savings. Might the reduced profit justify paying the full X per widget and having it made somewhere with stricter rules?

Example: there are already some knock-off reproductions of the toys for the upcoming Transformers 2 movie. The original toys haven't even been released yet. (Tomorrow.)

Re:VLC

[lefiz]

Give this guy a break and read his comment in the context of the thread. He was responding to :

Actually, I think lack of respect for patents and copyright laws is probably one of the big drivers in the Chinese economic boom. Because there's no artificial limitations on what you can build and sell, all manner of artefacts are effectively 'open source'.

This poster was clearly not suggesting that the Chinese find a cool product, steal it, and then update and innovate and use the community to develop new stuff. Instead, "open source" is being misused in place of "free". The poster's comment about Windows is that, much like open source linux, you can go online and easily find and download the latest version for free. In context, his meaning is pretty clear.

Re:VLC

[JasterBobaMereel]

Depends if the shuttle is defined as USA jurisdiction? It is a craft in transit so international laws applying to craft in international water would seem to apply ...?

The ISS is another matter entirely ....

Re:VLC

[Nerdfest]

I think he meant "open sores".

Re:VLC

[howlingmadhowie]

'into the market that they created'? i think not. either the market was already there or it wasn't. and you won't be making as many items, so the cost per unit for manufacturing will be higher.

Re:VLC

[mbone]

US law applies on a US space vehicle, and on the US modules of the ISS.

Re:VLC

[JoeMerchant]

I'm betting that there are political reasons why no one would dare use anything even slightly connected to video piracy while in space - absolutely everything they do is monitored, and watched by a host of governments, industry and private individuals. While 98% of NASA might not care, and a bunch of them even cheer for, use of something like VLC, I'm sure there's someone in the command structure who would pull the choke chain on anyone beneath them who even dared to suggest it.

And, no, it doesn't matter if it's possible to use it for legal purposes and they were only using it for legal purposes with all proper licenses acquired and paid for and no DRM circumvented - just the fact that it can be (and often is) used in conjunction with DeCSS is enough to take it off the flight approved software list.

Re:VLC

[pbhj]

Surely if you use MS Windows (I'm guessing that's the OS as I think it'd be mentioned otherwise) then you've bought a license to watch DVDs (as WMP is included)?

If it's a case of the seller not being licensed to sell a copy of a decoder then can you not just compile that part yourself (personal non-commercial use of patented technology being allowed).

I can't see under what law _you_ could be prosecuted here as a decoder shouldn't be a copyrightable item.

Re:VLC

[JoeMerchant]

I'm no DRM expert, but I thought that mp3 was just a format used to compress audio streams, no DRM involved. I have a collection of several hundred bought and paid for music CDs that have their audio data recorded "in the clear" on them, no DRM whatsoever.

I'm also guessing that my Sony PS3 wouldn't rip & encode CDs for me if there was any possible legal reason for them not to.

Now, DeCSS for DVD decoding is something else altogether...

Re:VLC

[JoeMerchant]

Plus the Russians will always be more relaxed because, you know, they've got cool tunes to listen to. Actually, I think lack of respect for patents and copyright laws is probably one of the big drivers in the Chinese economic boom. Because there's no artificial limitations on what you can build and sell, all manner of artefacts are effectively 'open source'.

Yes, and no. An awful lot of what's made in China in this "open source" manner is made by people who barely grasp what they are doing - a businessman hires a tech away from a rival company to set up some widget machine, so the other company limps along until their machine breaks and then they get someone to patch it together with chewing gum, and even the guy that hired the "expert" only pays him as little as possible to keep him around, so the "expert" likely learned about the machine in an apprentice sort of fashion working at yet another rival plant, etc. etc.

A lot of what they turn out is good, usable product at an amazing (low low Wal Mart) price, but a lot of it is on the ragged edge of being worthless junk when new, and you should expect 90% of it to fail within a very short time.

Harbor Freight vs Snap-On tools is a good case study. At Harbor Freight, you can equip a mechanic's toolbox for about 5 to 10% of the price of the same tools from Snap-On. Sure, the tools are crap, but almost all of them will work at least the first time you use them, and usually they'll last about 5 to 10% as long as the Snap-On tools, so, as long as you don't mind working with crap that falls apart on you 10 to 20 times as often, you're getting fair value from Harbor Freight, and really, 90% of the tools in the toolbox aren't used enough to make the Harbor Freight variety wear out, anyway - so it makes damn good sense to stock them, for those things that you really don't use often, or at all.

By the way, don't reply with any "you get what you pay for" cliche's, by stroke of fate, I have been given two $3K notebook PCs in the past 3 years (MacBook Pro and Sony Vaio), the first has a bad heat-sink on the GPU (that's really damn difficult to get at to repair) that causes the screen to lock-up every hour or so, and the second is sitting on my desk right now in a dozen pieces because the on-site warranty repair tech couldn't figure out how to get it back together after replacing the backlight, which started to flicker out to black after only 3 months. At some point, luxury tech starts to resemble owning a 1960's Jaguar - beautiful, but it costs more to maintain it in running order for 5000 miles than it does to purchase, and purchasing it ain't cheap.

Re:VLC

[miro f]

I tried both and, honestly, VLC sucks less than *mplayer.

And both don't come close to Apple's DVD Player and QuickTime Player.

that's true, nothing sucks more than Quicktime. Apart from perhaps Realplayer.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also cheaper to manufacture something if you don't have to pay your own design, research, development and marketing costs, and just clone someone else's work and sell into the market that they created.

So, you bring a black box and nobody can look inside. You can "steal" ideas from others, but we can't see inside to inspect. Meanwhile, third world countries can't pay for royalties and can't look inside first world's products, yet first world countries CAN look inside third world's black boxes and prosecute "stolen" ideas.

Anyway, there is no such a thing like "stolen" ideas. So, go get your flag and shut up. Real world is not what your geverment said to you.

Re:VLC

[John Hasler]

The DMCA explicitly permits "reverse-engineering" for interoperability. DMCA .

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't there a small issue with this being a government-funded space mission, and VLC being somewhat in breach of the DMCA or software patents or something due to its inclusion of a not-paid-up DVD decoder? I may be out of date on this issue, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have VLC for the same reason they wouldn't encode mp3s with LAME.

Well, we (~50,000 user enterprise) had that discussion with Microsoft ...

"We have 50k desks with XP and an enterprise license that says we're entitled to Vista, right?"
"Yes."

"But XP doesn't have MPEG2 codecs, does it?"
"No, but Vista does! You should upgrade. Urgently."

"Vista smells funny, so we won't be upgrading. But why don't you let us have the Vista MPEG2 codecs that we're entitled to, and we'll install them under XP."
"Em, no. We don't .. eh, support .. that configuration, you need to migrate to Vista!"

"Well, why don't we go ahead an install VLC codecs and call it even?"
"Aha! Because, per the Wikipedia page on MPEG2, you will need to pay the Motion Picture people a license for every desktop! You should install Vista, because it is fully licensed with the Motion Picture people, on your behalf - which makes it, like, free!"

"I see, so if you've paid the Motion Picture people for MPEG2 licensing on our behalf, but you won't provide us with the MPEG2 codecs, then we should be legally entitled to use the VLC win32 MPEG2 codecs, right?"
"Ahh .. ehhh .. "

lol.

Re:VLC

[Antique Geekmeister]

It's patented. You need to pay the patent holders, and get a license.

They provide _no_ licenses for Linux use, the last time I looked. The case is even worse for DVD encoding, which the DMCA protects, which is why the libraries to decode DVD's are easily accessible from overseas sites such as the Penguin Liberation Front at http://plf.zarb.org/, but not available directly on any distro built in the USA.

The intellectual property owners are _unwilling_ to sell licenses for Linux, which is why playing DVD's on Linux is such a delicate issue in selling Linux laptops.

Re:VLC

[Retric]

When non coders hear open source they think free as in beer. So the fact it's easy to get a copy of Windows for free means people who want free still have the windows option.

Re:VLC

[Rogerborg]

'into the market that they created'? i think not. either the market was already there or it wasn't

How can a market "already be there" for a new product?

The iPod - the original iPod, when the alternatives were CD walkmen and minidisc players - created the market and the demand for Chinese iPod clones.

If you believe otherwise, I'd like a hit of what you're toking on.

Re:VLC

[gnapster]

The ISS is another matter entirely ....

No kidding...

Re:VLC

[fractoid]

But if the Chinese factory leaks your specs and a knock-off is released into your market, reducing your profits, that impacts your savings.

Leaks your specs? Nah, they just do another complete production run using the same factory line that they used to build your order.

When it becomes interesting is when they actually tweak your design a little, add a few more features that you missed. It seems to me that a totally free market like this actually drives innovation far harder than a traditional, copyright-and-patent-protected market because if the only market exclusivity your product has is the three months it takes your competitors to clone it, you'd damn well better come up with something new and _good_ in those three months to stay ahead of the curve. I would say that in 10 to 20 years' time, Chinese products will be more advanced than 'western' ones, purely due to this incredible market force.

Re:VLC

[jsoderba]

That's a good point. Most developed countries didn't get seriously concerned with IP law until they started exporting IP themselves. Japanese companies made a lot of knock-offs in the 1950s and 60s; Korea, Hong Kong and Taiwan followed in the 70s and 80s. Is it surprising then that China, India, Vietnam etc. do the same? The difference is perhaps that it is easier to spot in todays better informed market.

Re:VLC

[John Hasler]

> Borders extend vertically only in US law, not in the rest of the world...

They extend diagonally in the rest of the world? Your nation claims no airspace?

> ...another law that does not apply outside the USA

What law might that be?

While Congress has never enacted legislation formally defining the upper limit of US air space the most common administrative limit is 50 miles (80km). The USA certainly does not claim that its borders extend vertically to infinity. Space is clearly recognized by the US government as international territory.

Re:VLC

[fractoid]

Yeah, I tend to view 'china brand' products as being like software demos. You pay next to nothing for them, and you expect them to work maybe twice before they die. Case in point, I built a chicken coop recently, and I bought a $20 staple gun to fix the chicken wire in place. It choked on probably 1/3 of the staples I ever put through it, and now that the coop's finished I'll never use it again - but it's cemented in my mind that NEXT time I have a project, a decent quality staple gun will be a sound investment because it's going to be useful. :)

As for the comment about luxury tech vs old Jaguars, you're quite right. That's why you build your own from quality commodity parts, or if you can't (as with your laptop case) you buy something mid-range that's made in large quantities, so hopefully they've amortised a larger engineering cost over the increased volume. Same with cars - you want something nice, get a moderate-volume sports car and mod it until it's fast and comfortable enough for you.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

What country is space part of?

Re:VLC

[SigmundFloyd]

QuickTime player and Apple DVD Player are very good, at least on OS X (dunno about Windows).

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, of course that does not apply for the few moments when they are passing over the Indian Ocean (say); that was my point, although it didn't come across well. Here is a hypothetical related question: do the laws of Rhode Island apply for the instant that it takes for them to pass over that postage stamp of land?

They are US Citizens in a US spacecraft, and (at the moment that I suggest they ought to pause decoding) their orbit is passing over US soil. If any law applies, it is US law. Or can you get away with murder in space?

There is a well-established body of law and many treaties that cover space travel. Look it up with google.

The laws of Rhode Island don't apply.

Re:VLC

[sjames]

The DMCA does offer an exception for interoperability.

Re:VLC

[lytithwyn]

I'm all for doing the right thing, too. Some people just have a hard time figuring out what that is. In my life I have bought 3-4 component dvd players. Right now, only 1 of them still works. That means I've paid the license fee for the dvd codec 3 or 4 times, and 2 or 3 of those license purchases are unused. So, I don't feel bad running xine/mplayer/ffmpeg with libdvdcss. I've paid my dues.

I think it comes down to this question: will I be anal enough to limit myself to what some company says is legal (in the deteriorating constitutionally-questionable legal system in my country [USA]) or do I just do what's ethical.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently, the DVD was completely encoded with LAME.

Re:VLC

[WindBourne]

Yeah, the guy who came up with the original design and owns the patent/copyright really is just a sponger.

Re:VLC

[Silentknyght]

How can a market "already be there" for a new product?

In economic terms, its called a substitute good. Any product, even nonexistent, exists in a market to which it is/will be a substitute good for some other product. I have a difficult time believing that any unrealized or otherwise imagined product could NOT be a substitute for a current good/service.

Re:VLC

[Steauengeglase]

Somewhat off-topic, but this is probably the single biggest argument for and against laissez-faire. On one hand, the guy selling cheapest is the guy selling most. On the other hand, well the people who say they are tired of regulation and taxation, never say they are sick and tired of patent protection.

Re:VLC

[Fross]

The market was for "compact, high capacity music players" and has been there for decades.

The original iPod was not the first mp3 player, not even the first harddisk based mp3 player (not by a long shot), there was already a market for it.

What Apple did was market the hell out of a good product and raise awareness of a whole new way to store and carry music. The market was already there.

Re:VLC

[fracai]

In 10-20 years? Have you seen the cell phones they have? Or any of the other cutting edge tech? I'd say that Oriental products are already ahead of the Occidental [1], and have been for a number of years.

[1] Half the reason I posted was to use that.

Re:VLC

[WindBourne]

I read about this. Each countries are saying that their laws apply in their own section of the ISS. So TECHNICALLY, they could use VLC in the russian side. Of course, NASA will shoot that down quickly.

Re:VLC

[omnichad]

If you've ever used a piece of electronics manufactured and designed in Asia, then you would see that just 'having' the features doesn't matter. The product is painfully hard to use because there's no order or organization. Just enough of the feature there to say that it has the feature too.

Re:VLC

[Cassini2]

The CEO gets paid on the short term savings. If other people adopt a longer term viewpoint, they can gain a long-term competitive advantage. Have you noticed the Chinese are selling equipment into the United States directly, bypassing the American companies acting as middle men? Westinghouse is not an American brand anymore. IBM computers are now Lenovo.

Re:VLC

[jedidiah]

>> The iPod - the original iPod, when the alternatives were CD walkmen and minidisc players - created the market and the demand for Chinese iPod clones.
>
> If you believe otherwise, I'd like a hit of what you're toking on.

It's called REALITY and TRUTH.

There were plenty of companies trying to make mp3 players when Apple walked in.

There was a particular HD based car player that I had been salivating over
but never had the balls to buy because it was expensive. The cost of the
underlying technology made it so at that time. I'm not sure I could have
managed to get that much "forgiveness".

Not everyone is inside your little reality distortion bubble.

Most of my MP3 collection predates Apple's efforts. They tend to bugger iTunes because of this.

Re:VLC

[matt me]

You are wrong!

They are in space. They need not respect copyright. Few laws apply in space. Here are some that do: objects with no force on them continue at their present velocity, acceleration of a body is proportional to the force acting on that body and inversely proportional to the body's mass, and every action has an equal an opposite reaction. The DMCA does not.

Re:VLC

[alexandre_ganso]

The iPod - the original iPod, when the alternatives were CD walkmen and minidisc players - created the market and the demand for Chinese iPod clones.

No it didn't.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/03/10/ft_first_mp3_player/

Re:VLC

[Actually, I do RTFA]

The iPod - the original iPod, when the alternatives were CD walkmen and minidisc players

WTF? iPods were no where near the first MP3 player. I think I had my first one 4-5 years before the iPod came out (a lovely 64meg one).

A proud member of the "always bought offbrand MP3-players" club.

Re:VLC

[jedidiah]

Actually, this was a big thing for President Eisenhower.

He didn't want this sort of nonsense adopted. He wanted to be able to spy on the Russians.

That is why the US wanted it's first space shot to be a non-military vehicle.

Ike wanted the world to buy into the idea that a US spy sattelite could go anywhere we might want such a device to go.

So the idea that Americans think that orbital space over Texas belongs to them is probably bogus.

It's really not in our interest.

Re:VLC

[alexandre_ganso]

Is DMCA valid in space? :-)

Re:VLC

[jedidiah]

You're on crack.

All Quicktime is really good for is being preinstalled.

It's part of that lame Apple-centric "Walled Garden". If
you want to do anything remotely interesting you will
need to install VLC or install it's guts.

Re:VLC

[alexandre_ganso]

By the way, how would fans cool the processor with no air? Or is it so cold that it doesn't matter? In that case, would the batteries work?

Re:VLC

[SigmundFloyd]

QuickTime is a LIBRARY. I'm talking about THE PLAYERS.

Re:VLC

[jedidiah]

My remark is valid for either.

Without some extra free software added to your pretty walled
garden, you aren't going to be able to do much with your
"pretty" player or library.

Oddly enough, Windows benefits from the same stuff. Although
the means by which you might figure out to install it is much
more straightforward on Windows.

It's rather ironic really.

Ultimately, though remarks along the lines of "it's a library"
are pretty much irrelevant for the users. They just want to be
able to click on their media (acquired from who knows where)
and have it "just work".

Quicktime and MacOS in general is rather mediocre in this respect.

The "hype" isn't always all it is cracked up to be.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you really suggesting that the elimination of patents and other Creative Works protection would drive innovation?

First of all, that would effectively prevent small start-ups from entering a market with a new product. Why spend my last $50,000 to develop and produce a product if MegaCorp can (legally) repackage it and flood the market within three months, at half the price, putting me out of business?

Any of this "innovation" that comes out of patent-disrespecting nations is wholly dependent on nations that do respect patents. Elimination of Creative Works protection in the US would immediately negatively impact innovation here.

Re:VLC

[DamnStupidElf]

Why spend my last $50,000 to develop and produce a product if MegaCorp can (legally) repackage it and flood the market within three months, at half the price, putting me out of business?

If you can recoup that $50,000 with a moderate profit within those three months, then it seems like a fair trade to me. If you can invest $50,000 and then reap millions or billions of dollars off of that $50,000 investment, it points to a skewed economic model. Look at it this way; no matter what patents you hold there will be a perfectly legal knockoff device out within a year anyway. One that is designed to avoid your patents and have some sort of nifty feature to differentiate it in the market. That's just the nature of manufacturing.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Much more interesting, factories in China used to be 51% property of state (including international subsidiaries). Among the papers needed to open the plant, a full "carte blanche" on the products must be given to the government. For some even technology transfer was needed.

At least so I heard from an executive of such a company (BIG German one).

Re:VLC

[DamnStupidElf]

Most free/OSS media players (including vlc and mplayer) just use libavcodec (ffmpeg) as the backend.

Here's the list of projects using ffmpeg. Differences in playback are probably due to hardware or the particular options selected in a given media player and the output driver (Xv, SDL, OpenGL, DirectX, etc.).

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a fair trade if I recoup a only small profit off of my $50,000 investment but a competitor makes millions from it.

My point is simply that without Creative Works protection, a small-time inventor with a great idea will be less encouraged to pursue its development.

Re:VLC

[Magic5Ball]

just 'having' the features doesn't matter. The product is painfully hard to use because there's no order or organization. Just enough of the feature there to say that it has the feature too.

Just like the vast majority of published or released software titles worldwide which do not seek or use feedback from non-developers.

Re:VLC

[SigmundFloyd]

I use VLC on my Linux laptop and, although the thing plays pretty much everything you throw at it, the user interface and the stability still aren't as good as Apple's players. Not even close.

Also, on Mac OS X (dunno about Windows) you can extend QuickTime with 3rd party extensions that enable it to play formats that it won't play out of the box (DivX, OGG, etc). And not through some hack, either, but simply dropping the extension in the "QuickTime Extensions" folder. So I really don't see how the "walled garden" comparison is justified.

Re:VLC

[Magic5Ball]

Do not confuse innovation, the application of new ideas, with invention which is the creation of new ideas.

There will always be niche markets that are inaccessible to mass production, which cannot presently be served by "small start-ups" due to the cost of entry (patent licensing fees). Such heterogeneous niche markets would be viable and efficient at the small-scale local level but uninteresting to the MegaCorp patent holders who cannot efficiently regularize or monetize the niche markets. In the absence of patents, new ideas would find a larger variety of market-accessible uses.

Re:VLC

[Toonol]

Seriously? Apple's quicktime player is terrible; I'd rather use even microsoft's media player than that. Every bit of software I've ever seen from apples is just a mess (including iTunes). Granted, that's probably because I'm seeing it run on Windows... I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume that it works better on a mac. Nearly any of the decent free players (mplayer classic, vlc) both perform better, and are less frustrating to use.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

In the absence of patents, many, if not most, new ideas would never be brought to market in the first place.

Patent law as it is it is far from perfect, but it is better than none at all.

And the benefit is not only for the small entities. What is the incentive for a large company to put a billion dollars into R&D if a competitor can reproduce the same product with 0 R&D cost?

Re:VLC

[Archangel Michael]

Plus the Russians will always be more relaxed because, you know, they've got cool tunes to listen to.

And Vodka, which just about makes any music sound better.

Re:VLC

[sumdumass]

If a country in space or a country sponsoring the crew (vessel commission and registration just like with marine ships) in space is a member country that has signed the two treaties, then yes.

The DMCA is really just the US implementation of the WTC and WPPT treaties. Outside of the penalties listed, almost everything is taken directly from those two treaties. Space craft are treated like marine vessels and fly under a flag which provides the protection of the country the flag serves. Besides international laws, the maritime laws of the country apply also which also includes any provisions of treaties the country may be a part of.

Re:VLC

[OwnedByTwoCats]

They marketed the hell out of the product (dunkle?) But before that, they designed a significantly more usable interface to the product.

Re:VLC

[bored]

Harbor Freight vs Snap-On tools is a good case study. At Harbor Freight, you can equip a mechanic's toolbox for about 5 to 10% of the price of the same tools from Snap-On. Sure, the tools are crap, but almost all of them will work at least the first time you use them, and usually they'll last about 5 to 10% as long as the Snap-On tools.

For the shade tree mechanic, lasting 10% as long as the quality tool, is still far longer than necessary. In other words I'm only using that drill for a couple hours a year instead of on a daily basis. The cheap Chinese junk is fantastic when you need some special tool to avoid having to call the "expert" to come out and charge you $1000 for a hours work. When your done you just throw the tool away. Frankly, in my opinion its a sign of how imbalanced the economy is.

That said, the problem with a lot of the HF tools is that they are simply junk, they sell machine tools that have so much play in them its impossible to produce anything but rough cuts. Their welders are incapable of maintaining any kind of reasonable duty cycle, etc.

By the way, don't reply with any "you get what you pay for" cliche's, by stroke of fate, I have been given two $3K notebook PCs in the past 3 years (MacBook Pro and Sony Vaio), the first has a bad heat-sink on the GPU

This has been true for a long time, and is one of the reasons I run windows on my machine. Using windows its pretty rare for me to think "how come no one else has seen this problem". My problems are rarer, and generally when i'm having one a quick google search turns up a solution. With other OS's (big UNIX's as well as linux). I'm always sitting around thinking "how did this get out of test, its completely broken, as I wait months for a vendor patch" which finally arrives and makes everything works as expected. I used to tell people I was cursed because the weirdest things would happen to me, then I realized it was because I was an unusual customer always checking out that cool new feature or buying some rare product. Now, I just buy junk unless its something I expect to use for a while, in those cases I also consider how long its been on the market or if what I'm doing is common.

Re:VLC

[schon]

The iPod - the original iPod, when the alternatives were CD walkmen and minidisc players [...] If you believe otherwise, I'd like a hit of what you're toking on.

I see your Reality Distortion Field is turned up to 11.

What I'm "toking on" is called reality. You can get some here and here.

Re:VLC

[mrmeval]

Unless you happen to be running some version of pulseaudio then it won't work and no other app will work except for a few that sputter then take up 100 percent CPU and then pulse audio crashes and then X goes all nuts and CTRL-ALT-BKSP has been ripped out so you have to reboot blind but your vid card is still corrupted when it comes back so you have to SSH in unless you're POOR and don't have another PC so you power cycle it and it corrupts your boot record or some file somewhere and now won't boot.

Think I'm joking here?

Re:VLC

[jedidiah]

> I use VLC on my Linux laptop and, although the thing plays pretty much everything
> you throw at it, the user interface and the stability still aren't as good as
> Apple's players. Not even close.

        This is just nonsense. The differences between the two interfaces are minor to nonexistent.

        Where they do differ, they differ because VLC actually supports more features. The UI is
different because the featureset of VLC is a superset of the QT player.

> Also, on Mac OS X (dunno about Windows) you can extend QuickTime with 3rd party extensions
> that enable it to play formats that it won't play out of the box (DivX, OGG, etc). And not
> through some hack, either, but simply dropping the extension in the "QuickTime Extensions"
> folder. So I really don't see how the "walled garden" comparison is justified.

        Try to find it.

        Play something in Linux, Windows or MacOS and see what happens.

        Ubuntu will guide you through getting the necessary addons. Easy peasy.

        Windows will try to do the same thing but it's a little more crude. You will eventually
        get pointed to some addons that you can download and install yourself. These might be
        Windows versions of the same stuff Ubuntu installs "automagically'.

        MacOS will point you to some QT extensions site that doesn't have anything of relevance.

Your comments about DIVX and OGG sound like you read it off of that site.

Re:VLC

[rts008]

You're getting your cart in front of the horse.

The iPod is just another player in the 'portable music playing device' market, it did not create the market for these devices.

Because a music player happens to be an iPod or clone does not make a new market in itself. The popularity is from it being more efficient.

Re:VLC

[SigmundFloyd]

This is just nonsense. The differences between the two interfaces are minor to nonexistent. Where they do differ, they differ because VLC actually supports more features. The UI is different because the featureset of VLC is a superset of the QT player.

LOL! Gimme a break, fanboy. VLC can't even loop a clip while maintaining the same zoom, speed, or fullscreen state. Where in VLC can you select part of a movie and only play or loop the selection? Where in VLC can you select a section of a movie and export it as a new movie? Can you drag a frame from VLC to the desktop and have it converted to a picture? You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

The one use I have for VLC on my Mac is watching the occasional DVD with a foreign country code.

Try to find it. Play something in Linux, Windows or MacOS and see what happens.

No, I'm not playing anything on Windows. I use OS X and Linux.

Your comments about DIVX and OGG sound like you read it off of that site.

No, my comments sound like I've installed exactly those 2 extensions to play those formats. No, they weren't automatically spoon-fed to me by the player, I found them via macupdate.com or versiontracker.com, as anyone else with a working brain can do without much effort.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that's a great idea. You know all the secrecy and corruption in corporations in OUR society? Secrecy and therefore corruption would have to be 10 times worse in such a society.

Plus, since it was worth so much more money to just steal other people's creations, people would stop spending the R&D money to create stuff. It really wouldn't work...

Re:VLC

[InfiniteLoopCounter]

When non coders hear open source they think free as in beer.

I think you have to give non-coders a bit more credit here. When they hear "free software" they may associate it with free-as-in-beer. "Open" implies openness, transparency, etc. "Source" implies point of origin, which in the context of computing means the person(s) coding the application. My view is that a general person either loosely understands the term "open source" or is completely confused.

Plus, context is important too. Without a context, if you heard "open source" you would probably think of computing and free software. If a general person heard "open source" out-of-context, he/she would probably think of a ketchup bottle with it's lid off.

I'll take off my pedant hat in a sec, but you're trying to defend an indefensible and stupid statement made by the GGP. We all make these sometimes*, but I think you just went and made a similar mistake yourself.

*see above ketchup remark.

Re:VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

already there http://www.myviliv.com/ces/main_s5.html

captcha : sadden

Re:VLC

[Retric]

I think the analogy still stands. If some random person in China is looking for a desktop OS they are probably not willing to pay 50$ for it. However, said random person is not going to edit the Linux OS so the comparison becomes between to "Free" items that are basically identical to them.

And I am not the only person that takes that viewpoint so the post a few above mine:

"The poster's comment about Windows is that, much like open source Linux, you can go online and easily find and download the latest version for free. In context, his meaning is pretty clear."

So you might want to consider the idea rather than simply dismissing it as indefensible.

PS: I am a software developer but while it's theoretically possible that I could decide update the OS I also understand enough about software development to realize I would first have to understand what it's doing. So while I like the fact it's based on UNIX I don't care about the fact it's open source. In the same way that I would not care if it was written in strait ASM or Pascal.

Re:VLC

[mathman47]

Must have had MACs. Certainly a Windows PC would have had Media Player!

Re:VLC

[JoeMerchant]

...and is one of the reasons I run windows on my machine. Using windows its pretty rare for me to think "how come no one else has seen this problem". My problems are rarer, and generally when i'm having one a quick google search turns up a solution. With other OS's (big UNIX's as well as linux). I'm always sitting around thinking "how did this get out of test, its completely broken, as I wait months for a vendor patch" which finally arrives and makes everything works as expected. I used to tell people I was cursed because the weirdest things would happen to me, then I realized it was because I was an unusual customer always checking out that cool new feature or buying some rare product. Now, I just buy junk unless its something I expect to use for a while, in those cases I also consider how long its been on the market or if what I'm doing is common.

Yeah, I actually live by that philosophy a lot (drive a Mazda Miata instead of a Porsche 914 or Lotus Elise), but the MacBook Pro and Vaio didn't "feel" like weird low-volume choices when I got them. I didn't have much choice on the Mac, and on the Vaio, I found an Vaio Z owner's thread teeming with happy customers (just as rabid as Mac fanbois, but less obnoxious...), apparently it's the Z540 that's "out there", oh well...

Actually, in support of the cult of Steve, the fruity choice in computer hardware does have the advantage that a LOT of people have the same hardware that you do, this is how I was able to pin down the GPU heatsink problem, and there are even really good online tutorials on how to strip a 2006 MBP down to the heatsinks, unfortunately I feel like I'd only have a 95% chance of getting it all back together if I took that many of those fiddly little connectors apart... but at least the info is out there. The Vaio docs that exist are apparently sketchy and unhelpful, at least to the first tech, tech 2 is coming today, we'll see how he does at getting it back together.

Re:VLC

[markringen]

almost all the American parts of the ISS are being made by the Russians. i think your view is a little warped by cold-war propaganda. Russians are always very strict on quality, and their shuttles have a better track record than the American ones. cough, cough, wakeup call: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/1285356.html

Re:VLC

[markringen]

the European union, the US government also controls the commerce. it's not exclusive to Russia. do a google search ;)

Re:VLC

[miro f]

The constant bugging to register, lack of fullscreen, and forced bundling with iTunes turned me off.

Although now I run Linux so I haven't even been able to touch quicktime for a few years now. And what a happy few years it's been =)

Obligatory Family Guy quote

[phillymjs]

Brian [on phone with Jillian]: Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh, you gotta hit, uh, "DVD" and then "menu" and then "select." Yeah... Yeah, the DVD needs to be face-up when you put it in. Uh huh. You should be able to see the words "Mr. 3000" Yeah... Still nothing? Is it plugged in? Okay, so, plug it in...

~Philly

Re:Obligatory Family Guy quote

[Anonymous Coward]

It really sounded almost like this in the NASA TV. The media player involved in the incident was the almighty Windows Media Player.

Re:Obligatory Family Guy quote

[Yetihehe]

First thing: where is up? We're talking about space station, without artifical gravity.

Likely cause...

[Manip]

Because DVD Playback requires a basic $5~ codec (for all the patent holders etc) some versions of Windows do not ship with it and thus without third party applications like PowerDVD or WinDVD that supply a codec, DVD Playback is "impossible."

I'm not sure I know a workaround without sending data to the station, either a codec or third party software that has a built-in decoder.

Another day, another victory for DRM!

Re:Likely cause...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Given that NASA's competence extends to wacky stunts like patching mars rover code by radio, and further given that DeCSS is pretty damn short, when you come right down to it they could probably have just gotten somebody on the ground to read it to them.

The bigger, more serious, question remains: "You are in space! Why are you watching DVDs?"

Re:Likely cause...

[syousef]

Because DVD Playback requires a basic $5~ codec (for all the patent holders etc) some versions of Windows do not ship with it and thus without third party applications like PowerDVD or WinDVD that supply a codec, DVD Playback is "impossible."

Pirates! Theives! No one sold them a license to play the DVD in space! Unless it's region 0 it must be illegal. Either that or your software would have to play one DVD per region in the Shuttle's orbit (and of synchronise switching between players while switching other players off to avoid licensing violations). No the lag they'd experience with playback is not an excuse!

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because DVD Playback requires a basic $5~ codec (for all the patent holders etc) some versions of Windows do not ship with it

Really? Never heard of this... which versions?

Re:Likely cause...

[node 3]

Hubble is not in the normal space shuttle/ISS orbit, which made getting an Internet connection more difficult than usual. In their normal orbit, they just time their Internet downloads for when they are passing over Cringely's Pringles can WiFi antenna...

Re:Likely cause...

[Xaoswolf]

HA HA, I was thinking the same thing...

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows XP, for example. Stock, standard Windows XP cannot decode an MPEG-2 video stream.

Normally, DVD playback software installs a MPEG-2 codec though, and there's ffdshow-tryout.

Re:Likely cause...

[DerekLyons]

If you proceed from the mistaken assumption that these are cheap ass vanilla laptops from a dodgy computer store... then, yeah. This is a 'victory' for DRM.

But that's not the situation here - these are configuration controlled laptops specifically prepared for use on the Shuttle. Odds are the prelaunch checklist didn't include 'test entertainment capabilities' and thus the lack of a codec or driver went unnoticed.

Re:Likely cause...

[benjamindees]

It's not so much the codec that is the issue. The DVD codec is just MPEG-2, which like you said is a one-time fee of $2.50. Philips et al will sell a patent license to just about anyone.

The issue is DRM (CSS actually). The DVD Consortium will not license DVD player software to decode CSS without royalties and technical limitations. They have never authorized a DVD player on any open source OS. And they can sue you under the DMCA for distributing one. AFAIK, DeCSS is still illegal to distribute commercially in the United States.

VLC (and other open source players) exist as exceptions to this rule because of court rulings based on interoperability, fair use, and free speech rights, because they are not commercial software, and because they generally don't distribute code to decrypt CSS from servers located in the US.

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not sure I know a workaround without sending data to the station, either a codec or third party software that has a built-in decoder.

Another day, another victory for DRM!

The same would be true of any other software that might be required that wasn't preloaded before launch, regardless of whether it was proprietary or open source, DRM'd or DRM-free.

You people will mod up anything that has 'DRM' in it. It's pathetic.

Re:Likely cause...

[DigiShaman]

Did I hear that right? They are the first Space Pirates ever? AWSOME!

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

DVD playback most certainly does not *require* a $5 anything. (This is assuming of course that you have the appropriate hardware, eg a complete working computer with a DVD drive, speakers, etc.)

And while you certainly do need certain software a 'codec' is not the distinguishing bit between a DVD, and say, and Mpeg-4 video file. What you need is a CSS library to descramble the data on the DVD.

This is one more area where proprietary platforms loses to Free platforms. I've been a GNU/Linux user for a decade and a half, and (barring the time before I owned a DVD-ROM drive, where obviously it would have been a bit difficult) have never had to really worry about being able to play DVD's. It 'just works' in a variety of players: mplayer, vlc, xine, etc.

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

The bigger, more serious, question remains: "You are in space! Why are you watching DVDs?"

The view out the window is soooooo boring. Just a big blue and white ball, the moon and a billion stars you could just reach out and touch.

Re:Likely cause...

[lukas84]

This is one more area where proprietary platforms loses to Free platforms. I've been a GNU/Linux user for a decade and a half, and (barring the time before I owned a DVD-ROM drive, where obviously it would have been a bit difficult) have never had to really worry about being able to play DVD's. It 'just works' in a variety of players: mplayer, vlc, xine, etc.

The only problem being: DVD support on Linux is illegal in many countries. Yeah, nobody gives a fuck, but that's still something that OSS has to sort out.

Re:Likely cause...

[MaskedSlacker]

Because they'd been looking at the vast expanses of nothingness for 6 days already.

Haven't you ever seen Event Horizon?

Re:Likely cause...

[MaskedSlacker]

No, not anything. Only if it bashes DRM.

Re:Likely cause...

[MaskedSlacker]

I don't see how OSS has anything to sort out. The fact that it is illegal is something for head-up-their-ass legislatures to figure out.

Re:Likely cause...

[Anne Thwacks]

And they can sue you under the DMCA for distributing one. Only while your orbit passes over the USA

There is more to the world than just the USA

Re:Likely cause...

[fractoid]

So what you're saying is "If you stare too long into the abyss, you get bored and wanna watch DVDs"?

Re:Likely cause...

[MaskedSlacker]

Yes, but I wish I had said it like you did.

Re:Likely cause...

[Petersson]

The bigger, more serious, question remains: "You are in space! Why are you watching DVDs?"
There's nothing like to watch Battlestar Galactica when you're *in space*.

Re:Likely cause...

[slackbheep]

You might have noticed however that the article is specificly talking about Americans.

Re:Likely cause...

[Jurily]

"and further given that DeCSS is pretty damn short, when you come right down to it"

To clarify:

#include<stdlib.h>
typedef unsigned int uint;
char ctb[512]="33733b2663236b763e7e362b6e2e667bd393db0643034b96de9ed60b4e0e4\
69b57175f82c787cf125a1a528fca8ac21fd999d10049094190d898d001480840913d7d35246\
d2d65743c7c34256c2c6475dd9dd5044d0d4594dc9cd4054c0c449559195180c989c11058185\
081c888c011d797df0247074f92da9ad20f4a0a429f53135b86c383cb165e1e568bce8ec61bb\
3f3bba6e3a3ebf6befeb6abeeaee6fb37773f2267276f723a7a322f6a2a627fb9f9b1a0e9a9e\
1f0b8f8b0a1e8a8e0f15d1d5584cd8dc5145c1c5485cc8cc415bdfdb5a4edade5f4bcfcb4a5e\
cace4f539793120692961703878302168286071b7f7bfa2e7a7eff2bafab2afeaaae2ff";
typedef unsigned char uchar;uint tb0[11]={5,0,1,2,3,4,0,1,2,3,4};uchar* F=NULL;
uint lf0,lf1,out;void ReadKey(uchar* key){int i;char hst[3]; hst[2]=0;if(F==\
NULL){F=malloc(256);for(i=0;i<256;i++){hst[0]=ctb[2*i];hst[1]=ctb[2*i+1];F[i]=\
strtol(hst,NULL,16);}}out=0;lf0=(key[1]<<9)|key[0]|0x100;lf1=(key[4]<<16)|(key\
[3]<<8)|key[2];lf1=((lf1&0xfffff8)<<1)|(lf1&0x7)|0x8;}uchar Cipher(int sw1,\
int sw2){int i,a,b,x=0,y=0;for(i=0;i<8;i++){a=((lf0>>2)^(lf0>>16))&1;b=((lf1\
>>12)^(lf1>>20)^(lf1>>21)^(lf1>>24))&1;lf0=(lf0<<1)|a;lf1=(lf1<<1)|b;x=(x>>1)\
|(a<<7);y=(y>>1)|(b<<7);}x^=sw1;y^=sw2;return out=(out>>8)+x+y;} void \
CSSdescramble(uchar *sec,uchar *key){uint i;uchar *end=sec+0x800;uchar KEY[5];
for(i=0;i<5;i++)KEY[i]=key[i]^sec[0x54+i];ReadKey(KEY);sec+=0x80;while(sec!=\
end)*sec++=F[*sec]^Cipher(255,0);}void CSStitlekey1(uchar *key,uchar *im)
{uchar k[5];int i; ReadKey(im);for(i=0;i<5;i++)k[i]=Cipher(0,0);for(i=9;i>=0;\
i--)key[tb0[i+1]]=k[tb0[i+1]]^F[key[tb0[i+1]]]^key[tb0[i]];}void CSStitlekey2\
(uchar *key,uchar *im){uchar k[5];int i;ReadKey(im);for(i=0;i<5;i++)k[i]=\
Cipher(0,255);for(i=9;i>=0;i--)key[tb0[i+1]]=k[tb0[i+1]]^F[key[tb0[i+1]]]^key\
[tb0[i]];}void CSSdecrypttitlekey(uchar *tkey,uchar *dkey){int i;uchar im1[6];
uchar im2[6]={0x51,0x67,0x67,0xc5,0xe0,0x00};for(i=0;i<6;i++)im1[i]=dkey[i];
CSStitlekey1(im1,im2);CSStitlekey2(tkey,im1);}

Re:Likely cause...

[Your.Master]

This is yet another case of "it's not OSS's fault but it is OSS's problem".

OSS adoption is effectively suppressed in any territory where a person or corporation even believes that they can get in trouble with the law for using it.

If Linux doesn't sort it out, then Linux will most likely never be adopted in those countries, and certainly it prevents yet another large barrier to adoption. That's a far likelier scenario than legislatures spontaneously coming to their senses. In thousands of years of civilization we have yet to manage a consistently sane and consistent code of laws anywhere.

Re:Likely cause...

[Opportunist]

Not even then, or flying over countries would be illegal border crossing (imagine the customs problems, I mean, you can't just stop that ISS every other second because you cross a border in Europe...).

Hey, wait a sec, your DMCA powers are useless against me in space!

How much to rent some server space in NEA?

Re:Likely cause...

[naich]

The first Space Pirates? Hardly...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/spacepirates/

Re:Likely cause...

[Antony-Kyre]

Good joke. But onto some seriousness, is the shuttle considered American "soil" for all purposes of laws and such?

Re:Likely cause...

[jsiren]

Not even then, or flying over countries would be illegal border crossing (imagine the customs problems, I mean, you can't just stop that ISS every other second because you cross a border in Europe...).

It's a good thing we have the Schengen agreement, or the ISS would be in trouble!

Re:Likely cause...

[yo303]

I'm not sure I know a workaround without sending data to the station, either a codec or third party software that has a built-in decoder.Another day, another victory for DRM!

The same would be true of any other software that might be required that wasn't preloaded before launch, regardless of whether it was proprietary or open source, DRM'd or DRM-free. You people will mod up anything that has 'DRM' in it. It's pathetic.

Except that CD-ROM drives were explicitly made to play both data and music disks. That idea was lost, somehow, when making DVD drives for American laptops and American "region" DVDs.

Re:Likely cause...

[darthvader100]

Did they have to change region as they drifted over different countries?

"Hey guys, take out the disc, we are over Oz, put in the region 4 disc.."

Re:Likely cause...

[Fred_A]

Unless it's region 0 it must be illegal.

Not at all. That's specifically what region 8 is for.

Re:Likely cause...

[I kan Spl]

Shhhhh! You are going to get slashdot DMCA-ed again.

Don't post the secret codes on the intertubes! If we keep them secret then nobody will ever be able to find them anywhere!

(end sarcasm)

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

There is licensed DVD play-back for linux for those who wish to pay for it.

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't noticed any Canadians or Mexicans... You mean Unitedstatesians, yes? You bloody yanks!

Re:Likely cause...

[ubersoldat2k7]

Unless it's region 0 it must be illegal.

Not at all. That's specifically what region 8 is for.

Oh My God! Stupid lawyers always a step ahead!

Re:Likely cause...

[Jurily]

/*     efdtt.c     Author:  Charles M. Hannum <root@ihack.net>             */
/*                                                                         */
/*     Thanks to Phil Carmody <fatphil@asdf.org> for additional tweaks.    */
/*                                                                         */
/*     Length:  434 bytes (excluding unnecessary newlines)                 */
/*                                                                         */
/*     Usage is:  cat title-key scrambled.vob | efdtt >clear.vob           */

#define m(i)(x[i]^s[i+84])<<
unsigned char x[5],y,s[2048];main(n){for(read(0,x,5);read(0,s,n=2048);write(1,s
,n))if(s[y=s[13]%8+20]/16%4==1){int i=m(1)17^256+m(0)8,k=m(2)0,j=m(4)17^m(3)9^k
*2-k%8^8,a=0,c=26;for(s[y]-=16;--c;j*=2)a=a*2^i&1,i=i/2^j&1<<24;for(j=127;++j<n
;c=c>y)c+=y=i^i/8^i>>4^i>>12,i=i>>8^y<<17,a^=a>>14,y=a^a*8^a<<6,a=a>>8^y<<9,k=s
[j],k="7Wo~'G_\216"[k&7]+2^"cr3sfw6v;*k+>/n."[k>>4]*2^k*257/8,s[j]=k^(k&k*2&34)
*6^c+~y;}}

Whoops, my finger slipped.

Re:Likely cause...

[drizek]

No, they're the first people to get screwed by DRM in space.

Take that you commies!

Re:Likely cause...

[el3mentary]

We are scientists are we not?

Test the Theory:

DRM Sucks.

Re:Likely cause...

[lordofthechia]

The main issue is that they had DVD's with them in space, but they never thought of making sure they had the capability of playing it before going up. Gotta wonder how much time, fuel, and aggravation they could have saved if instead of coming up with a DVDs (though the article didn't say how many) they instead came up with a 32gb thumbdrive filled with h264 compressed movies and the necessary software.

Re:Likely cause...

[Sj0]

After sticking the DVDs into a pressurized glass vessel with pitot tubes to measure air movement, there was no difference between DRM and control.

Therefore, DRM doesn't suck. It is ridiculous, however. We ridicule it on a daily basis.

Re:Likely cause...

[jank1887]

no, the theory was right. in practice, it failed.

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucktard troll is fucktarded.

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I going to jail now for having seen all their secrets?

Re:Likely cause...

[MiniMike]

The bigger, more serious, question remains: "You are in space! Why are you watching DVDs?"

Maybe they just got the DVD set for Cosmos?
Where else are you going to see cool stuff like that?

Re:Likely cause...

[Toad-san]

Well, yeah, goes without saying. Although I guess they had to wait until they opened the bay doors ("Open the doors, HAL") so the Pringle cantenna would work.

It just seems odd to me that the Space Shuttle, for cryin' out loud, doesn't have high speed Internet. Surely NetZero could do something?

And don't I remember reading about astronauts blogging while in orbit? Were they chucking out message capsules with tape recordings? Oh ... yeah, I guess the cantenna link would be adequate for that too.

Re:Likely cause...

[slackbheep]

Actually I'm Canadian, I'm just not an idiot.

Re:Likely cause...

[richmaine]

Or even more likely, 'remove unapproved modules' might well have been part of the preparation. I used to work for NASA before I retired, and doing things like removing the games from standard software installations would have been quite typical. That was for ordinary old office or laptop computers - not ones sent into space - but it wouldn't be surprising at all for the same kinds of policies to apply.

Re:Likely cause...

[bmsleight]

Don't tell the Jingles :)

Re:Likely cause...

[DerekLyons]

That too.

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't those astronauts have like 10 PHDs each? When you stare into abyss you shouldn't be bored but inspired. Instead of being lazy and watching DRM ridden DVDs they could expand limits of human knowledge by running chemical, social, physiological and may be even genetic experiments in space. All of the above can be accomplished by synthesizing C2H5OH from contents of fuel tanks and that toothpaste they eat all the time. Future generations would thank them when robots come to kill us all.

Re:Likely cause...

[Anonymous Coward]

Samus Aran, where are you?

Waste of fuel

[fatp]

So they bought DVDs without verifying that they could be played?

Completely waste of fuel...

Re:Waste of fuel

[ubersoldat2k7]

If someone is bored enough, they can make the calculation of how much bringing those stupid DVDs cost the american public.

Re:Waste of fuel

[xednieht]

Absolutely, how retarded is NASA to waste payload capacity on the medium when the movie itself is weightless.

They never heard of K-Lite?

[NotSoHeavyD3]

I mean if they don't want to use VLC. Doesn't media player classic also do DVD's?

Re:They never heard of K-Lite?

[Warlord88]

That's the point. They didn't have it. It is not too difficult to imagine a computer which cannot play all media files. Without internet connection, you cannot do anything

I've no idea why this story made it to index. If you don't have foo, you don't have foo.

Re:They never heard of K-Lite?

[BikeHelmet]

Yep. Every single one of those would work. Klite, VLC, MPC/MPC-HC!

Heck, most computers come with extra software like PowerDVD. I'm amazed they had nothing.

I'm not surprised.

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Any idea how hard it is to get DVDs in the "Outer Space" region encoding?

Re:I'm not surprised.

[Daychilde]

Heh. But the shuttle is US territory, right? So Region 1, natch. :D

Re:I'm not surprised.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, everyone knows its illegal to watch the region 1 discs when you aren't in region 1. So they have to switch out disks as their orbit takes them in and out of each region.

Re:I'm not surprised.

[identity0]

There is no "outer space" region code, obviously. One simply switches the region code (or swap the disk in another player) each time the shuttle crosses over to a different region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code

(on a more serious note, it seems there is a special region code for international venues such as aircraft)

Re:I'm not surprised.

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no "outer space" region code, obviously. One simply switches the region code (or swap the disk in another player) each time the shuttle crosses over to a different region.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code

(on a more serious note, it seems there is a special region code for international venues such as aircraft)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Re:I'm not surprised.

[Custard Horse]

That's a ridiculous idea.

They should have a DVD from each region, broadcast them simultaneously and watch only the screen that is showing the region version that corresponds with the region that they are currently over.

Of course, if the law states that 'playing' rather than 'watching' a disc outside of its operable region then it is a simple case of playing and stopping the DVDs in turn. This may cause some difficulty (disc startup lag, repeating the same part of the DVD many times as fast forwarding would be too slow etc) but it is much better than your feeble 'swap the disc' solution.

Anyhow, is this argument relating to DMCA? If there are a whole bunch of region 1 discs and the DVD player is set to region 1 it doesn't matter where they are played does it? No contravention of the DMCA, no law to answer to and no story other than the parent story of not having the correct software which to a stripped down bespoke laptop is wholly uncontroversial as more bloat equals more chance of instability.

Re:I'm not surprised.

[Gabrill]

Isn't outer space beyond international law, like the high seas used to be?

Re:I'm not surprised.

[Opportunist]

Given the average content industry logic, it's probably "None. The market is too small so we can't find a local distributor, but no other distributor has the right to sell it there and you can't import it yourself due to restrictions. Sorry that you can't have that certain content in your outer space region."

Re:I'm not surprised.

[park3r]

It should be! Monkey knife fights would somehow be even better in space.

Re:I'm not surprised.

[treeves]

They should have had them converted to Super 8 before they launched and brought their Super 8 projector and aluminized rollup screen with them. It'd be like Apollo days, great nostalgia.

license issues?

[Tim4444]

does drm cover space shuttles? i'd think they'd need some kinda special license for that. there's probably a nominal fee - maybe proportional to the velocity at time of viewing. or maybe someone had already watched the copy before launch so it had expired. there must be a patent on watching movies in 0g so someone needs to be paid.

Re:license issues?

[eyepeepackets]

Get DVDs working on the shuttle? They are rocket scientists, not Linux gurus, so give them a break already.

Re:license issues?

[Tony Hoyle]

Are they? I mean.. I can drive my car but I'm not a mechanic.

I imagine the rocket scientists are on the ground doing what they do best - designing rockets. The shuttle pilots will be smart people but there's no need for them to know how to build one from scratch.

Re:license issues?

[bazorg]

Space shuttle probably flies with US flag, like many other airplanes do.

Re:license issues?

[Anonymous Coward]

One would think that people would pay to be able to say "Our movie was watched in SPACE!"

They Should Have Looked at This Website First...

[blogger11]

If they would have gone to SiteList and posted random links for the rest of the world to visit I think we would all be having a much more enjoyable time now... ;) Maybe this could be a lesson to the rest of us.

Wow. They're in space and want to watch movies?!

[deek]

I guess even the view from space becomes boring after a while.

Maybe they could kick off the first ever game of Zero Gee Football. Surely they'd have a Red Dwarf fan amongst the crew who could suggest it.

Next time

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe they will plan on pre-ripping their porn videos to .wmv?

Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing they were using windows :)

Re:Windows

[BungaDunga]

Right, because NOBODY has ever had any problems watching videos on Linux. Just the other day I was trying to watch some avis off a digital camera in Ubuntu, and VLC crapped out in a big way, complaining first that they were malformed and then playing a few stuttery frames and stopping. Wonderful. Sure, maybe there was something wrong with the AVIs, but I know they work on Windows.

Re:Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

What software were you using on windows?

Re:Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

You had a problem with an application that runs on Windows, Linux and Mac OS (vlc) and is not the default Linux media player on any major distro. And you blame this problem on Linux?
If you had used the default Ubuntu player (Totem) you might have a point.

Lifting dvds into space, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Problem 1: Not testing that the laptops would be able to play the dvds before launching it all into space.

Problem 2: Has space flight become so routine and, dare I say it, boring for astronauts that they would prefer to watch dvds?

Problem 3: They honsetly spent taxpayer money to lift the mass of some DVDs into low orbit, when they should have just ripped the movies to the laptop's hard drive?

In ripped format there would be no fragile disks floating around in freefall, likely playable even with video players lacking actual DVD support, and most importantly wouldn't add to the fuel cost of lifting the shuttle into low orbit.

Yet another common sense fail by NASA.

Re:Lifting dvds into space, why?

[nausea_malvarma]

Then again, if they ripped the dvds, the MPAA would probably sue nasa or some shit.

Re:Lifting dvds into space, why?

[fwarren]

Someone like "Amazon" or "Apple" should provide Movies for the space missions. It is great PR. Each astronaut picks 5 movies or so, which get loaded onto the laptop. It saves NASA and the taxpayers money, because you don't have to pay for the fuel to lift the DVDs. Someone has made sure the software to view the movies is on the Laptop in whatever OS they are using. And who ever pulls off this PR stunt pays 1 or 2 bucks in royalties to the studios.

It sounds like a win-win to everyone involved.

Re:Lifting dvds into space, why?

[pbhj]

Problem 1: Not testing that the laptops would be able to play the dvds before launching it all into space.

They didn't bother testing the telescope if reports here (a couple of days ago) of the mirror being improperly ground are correct - that cost $2billion or so, why bother testing a laptop.

Re:Lifting dvds into space, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then again, if they ripped the dvds, the MPAA would probably sue nasa or some shit.

Actually, they'd be more likely to get sued through "re-distribution" and "broadcasting" due to the over-the-shoulder camera views on NASA TV.

rofl.

Re:Lifting dvds into space, why?

[MartinSchou]

There IS of course the risk that the MPAA etc. decides that since the laptop/dvd-player screen might be facing towards one of the many shuttle cameras, it would now constitute a public performance. Or that it's not a private showing.

Re:Lifting dvds into space, why?

[Anonymous Coward]

What is Up with People capitalising Random words?

Re:Lifting dvds into space, why?

[badkarmadayaccount]

That would rule oh so much more than any stupid movie!

A minor nit...

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

It is not at all clear that they "repaired the Hubble successfully". They performed their jobs well, but we won't know whether the Hubble has been successfully repaired until it is calibrated and producing images.

Re:A minor nit...

[Fred_A]

It is not at all clear that they "repaired the Hubble successfully". They performed their jobs well, but we won't know whether the Hubble has been successfully repaired until it is calibrated and producing images.

Presumably they used Hubble to shoot a few DVDs and were disappointed that they couldn't check the results.

When you're in space ...

[HW_Hack]

no one can hear you scream "AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHHH" !

Re:When you're in space ...

[PiSkyHi]

ouch.. my ears hurt.

Re:When you're in space ...

[PhxBlue]

But they can hear you scream "KHHAAAAAAAAAANNN!"

Doh!!

[XB-70]

How much is the weight allowance for a Knoppix DVD?

What about dual booting? A backup OS such as Linux would be smart at best and prudent at worst. I mean, isn't NASA about redundancy?

I still agree with the comment about looking out the window rather than watching movies on their day off. Come on!! I'm sure a few kids on earth would have loved to ask for pics to be taken etc. etc.

Re:Doh!!

[alexandre_ganso]

If they can't play a dvd with the drive available, how would they with a live cd on it?

I hate DVDs

[Anonymous Coward]

That'll teach em to use those newfangled dee-vee-dees and their crazy codecs. If they had half a brain they'd be hoarding laser discs like me!

Re:I hate DVDs

[orngjce223]

A DVD *is* a laser disk, technically speaking. It's read by a laser.

Decoding the information on the disc, on the other hand...

Re:I hate DVDs

[binford2k]

Whooosh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_disc

Re:I hate DVDs

[spire3661]

If the GP had typed "LaserDiscs", insted of "laser discs", your comment might be more relevant.

Re:I hate DVDs

[Haeleth]

Oh, please. You're as bad as the people who go on endlessly about "technically, a Mac is a PC". Drop the etymological reductionism and acknowledge that the meaning of a phrase is defined by its usage, not by the sum of the meanings of its components.

In the real world so unfamiliar to the endless horde of quibblers and nitpickers, there is no distinction between "laser disc" and "LaserDisc". The generic term used for media such as LDs and DVDs is "optical disc", not "laser disc".

Re:I hate DVDs

[Spatial]

Drop the etymological reductionism and acknowledge that the meaning of a phrase is defined by its usage

This principle is retarded when applied to technical terms. Or are all computers 'hard drives'? Or perhaps the computer is the monitor...

Re:I hate DVDs

[Anonymous Coward]

The iMac is both. And it is a pc also. And a mac. oh god how many things...

Re:I hate DVDs

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this due to the Mac vs. PC ads? This is the first time I heard someone use "PC" to refer to Windows.

Bored in orbit ???

[Lexor]

I'll likely remain Earthbound for my entire life yet I usually find plenty to do before I'm tempted by mass media. Spare time or not, I can't imagine being so bored during a relatively short Shuttle mission that I'd want to fire up a movie. Instead, why not grab a camera and inspire other people who won't ever get the chance to orbit our planet.

Re:Bored in orbit ???

[artor3]

You find plenty to do on Earth. Now lock yourself in a small room with a few other people for a few weeks, and see if you never get bored.

Oh, wait, Slashdot... being locked in a small room with a few people is probably more stimulating than normal.

Re:Bored in orbit ???

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps *you* might not be bored in space, but these are astronauts whose *job* it is to be in space. One can only be awed by the beauty of the sight of earth from space for so long, then it becomes old news. Ditto for the space shuttle itself - it might be awesome, interesting, and new to someone who *isn't* already an astronaut and had the inner workings of every piece of tech on it drilled into their head so many times they could do it all in their sleep, but I'm sure its all terribly 'the same old stuff' to those who are.

Also, there is an awful lot more room on the earth, things you haven't already seen, than there is on the shuttle for the astronauts. They are certainly intimately familiar with every square inch of space that they might go to 'find plenty to do' - pretty much all the gear and equipment they have is all there with the purpose of their mission - there isn't much in terms of 'things to do'. (Well, I heard somewhere they did bring some movies on DVD, presumably ones they haven't already seen)

And "grab a camera" ? - I'm sure so many pictures have been taken from orbit, and of the inside of the shuttle, that any more would just be a waste of storage/film. I'm sure that there were even cameras rolling (and/or snapping) for their entire set of spacewalks working on Hubble, as well. What on earth could now they take pictures of that would be new?

Re:Bored in orbit ???

[ILongForDarkness]

Well depending on the demographics of the mission crew, I might be tempted to join the 300 mile high club.

Re:Bored in orbit ???

[Phroggy]

Locked in a small room without Internet access.

Re:Bored in orbit ???

[penguinchris]

Though highly cynical, I appreciate your point, but for the last paragraph - as any photographer will tell you, there is *always* something new to photograph.

If there wasn't, then no one would bring their fancy cameras anywhere, especially to places like the US national parks. Ansel Adams got it perfect already, so what's the point, right?

In places like national parks, yes, it's easy to get bored and disinterested in photographing things that you know thousands have photographed before. But if you put some effort in to be creative, that is when it's most rewarding - knowing you're doing something creative and unique instead of the hum-drum shots that everyone else got.

And if you're in outer space, for fuck's sake, there would be endless things to photograph. Even if it's been photographed before. I'm practically drooling just thinking of all the things you could photograph in a space station. It doesn't have to be all the geeky technical stuff, or the view out the window. Having some great photographs of the astronauts in space, for example - not just while they're doing official work - would be priceless not only for them and their grandchildren, but for future generations who will always wonder what it's like to be in space (until cheap and easy space flight becomes available, of course, but even then - I'm still fascinated by the world's early explorers even though I can "explore" the planet much more easily than they did).

NASA is simply poorly run

[erroneus]

I'll be the first to offer up that I am not the most organized planner or manager. But I have known plenty who were and they could plan anything down to the last detail. I know these people cannot be THAT rare.

NASA's history is filled with incidents where they forgot tiny details and some pretty major ones as well. While the inability to play a movie isn't a show-stopper, it is a pretty fundamentally stupid thing. But we can also thank the greed of the motion picture industry that insisted on controlling the what and the where of the DVDs you own can be played. And of course, if the users of the computer(s) in question knew about it, VLC would have been a good option regardless of the OS run. But all-in-all, this incident highlights exactly what is wrong with NASA.

I know NASA wants everyone to believe they are the most careful and meticulous planners on the planet. Nothing could be further from the truth, I think. I have no solutions to offer, so this commentary won't be particularly helpful, but one notion comes to mind that I think should be pretty obvious -- fire the beureaucrats who muck up the works with their self-important nonsense and put people in charge who are selfless and actually care about the mission.

There shouldn't be a single piece of gear going up into space that doesn't work and there should always be a complete inventory of every item that goes up there complete with weight, density and other details such as whether or not it works. And I could go on and on about space craft design, repair and maintenance policies and procedures, but suffice to say that NASA is supposed to be an extremely idealistic program that is above politics and power games though presently, it is not only made up of politics and power games, it is "that" intensified beyond that which one typically encounters.

It's a huge mess and it sickens me to see it. NASA was once looked upon as an amazing program well above the pettiness of other daily things, but now it is well below the idealism that it started from and is, at every turn, the poster child of waste and corruption thanks to the influence of the aerospace industry and the military industrial complex that owns it.

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[Cryacin]

I'll be the first to offer up that I am not the most organized planner or manager. But I have known plenty who were and they could plan anything down to the last detail. I know these people cannot be THAT rare.

I write software for project managers... and yup... they are.

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[jcnnghm]

The people planning missions for NASA shouldn't be spending even a single second making sure the astronauts can watch DVDs.

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[1053r]

it is a pretty fundamentally stupid thing

Seriously? There's maybe you and five other people that think that on the face of this planet. I'm fairly certain that ensuring that the astronauts had proper playback codecs was not on the list of priorities at NASA. I'd quite frankly be upset if it *was*, given that the only reason that they had an extra day was that the unforseen thunderstorm made landing impossible, and it's impossible to reliably predict *those* weeks in advance. To dedicate resources to seeing to petty details such as video playback software would be the epitome of waste and inefficiency that you are decrying. The astronauts should absolutely not be wasting time and money watching movies in space (of course, unless it's in a situation like this one where there is no more scheduled work left to be done).

Granted, maybe NASA wasn't once the wonder it once was, but that was only because of the Cold War, after the Russians and Sputnik scared the crap out of everybody this side of the Pacific. The only reason the politicians were willing to allow NASA to spend the money to send a man to the moon was so we could beat the Soviets there. But NASA has still done some pretty amazing things since. I couldn't count on one hand the number of probes and rovers they've sent to places like Mars and Jupiter, and most of those have *way* outlived their expected useful lifespan. They've been way more successful than expected. Contrast this with the Beagle 2, which was completely lost before it even had the chance to do anything even remotely useful (It was British, by the way).

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[slackingme]

Trolling is alive and well on /. You are trolling, right? If we give up on NASA we might as well throw in the towel. I believe that anyone carrying a NASA badge knows exactly how important their organization is to our country, and species, and I am unanimous in that. Don't let the AYBS reference diminish the seriousness of my response. I wasn't even tempted to make a crack about Windows' inability to play DVDs out of the box. Really I wasn't. NASA is above that...

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[erroneus]

It's not a question of managing priorities. It's a question of style and correctness. Nothing should go up that doesn't work. And that should include things that might seem to not matter so much at the time.

If even the small, seemingly insignificant things don't escape notice and inspection, then surely the big things, the things that cause shuttles to blow up or fall apart on reentry, would also not go unnoticed or underestimated.

I don't need schooling on the history of NASA. I was born in 1968. It was a pretty special time to grow up. I was a a born fan of NASA and all it accomplished. But you'd have to be blind not to see what is wrong with it even if there are still things that are right.

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[Anonymous Coward]

I suspect each crewmember has a certain allowance for personal items, and I'm sure whatever DVD's they have were part of someone's personal items. I highly doubt they were part of official mission planning.

And I'm sure the computers were both *not* part of anyone's personal allowance, and I'm sure they did work for whatever they were intended to do as part of the mission, which probably didn't include playing DVD's.

Basically, it probably didn't occur to whoever did bring the DVD's to check to make sure the computers they had would be able to play them. Perhaps they didn't have an opportunity to do so, perhaps they assumed any computer could play DVD's. Possibly even if they had thought about it and wanted to burn a disc with some playing software on it, if these were mission-critical computers they aren't allowed to install additional software on them.

In any case, I see two things coming of this. One, it will raise awareness of how DRM and software patents/licenses interfere with reasonable legitimate use of media, and two, someone at NASA will probably get software that can play DVD's and include it for future space missions, wether on the shuttle or whatever else.

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[Anonymous Coward]

If they're spending the money to allow the weight of the DVDs onto the craft then they should. Otherwise they've just wasted money by allowing useless bits of plastic to be sent on the mission.

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[neomunk]

Why? Because DVDs are a recreational activity or because the DVD format is suboptimal?

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[neomunk]

If even the small, seemingly insignificant things don't escape notice and inspection, then surely the big things, the things that cause shuttles to blow up or fall apart on reentry, would also not go unnoticed or underestimated.

Apollo 1 and the shuttle disasters prove just how right you are. This absolutely should have been checked as soon as the DVDs were cleared to go up. I think it is very fortunate that the problem caused by missing this detail wasn't actually a crisis, this time.

Re:NASA is simply poorly run

[alexandre_ganso]

If you suppose that nasa supplied the guys with the dvds. Perhaps one of them just took it with him, aren't they allowed to carry some stuff of their own?

Oh come on!

[93 Escort Wagon]

There are already people posting "well, they should have checked to make sure their computer could play DVDs." Why? This is a reasonable expectation of what a computer should be able to do out of the box! My Mac certainly came with the ability to play DVDs, and nowadays most Linux installs do too - so we're almost certainly talking about a Windows box. Sure, you can download and install VLC - as a matter of fact, that's what I had to resort to with my wife's old Windows laptop before she (thankfully) switched to a Mac. But why the heck are all you Windows users so tolerant of the stupidity that leaves a stock operating system unable to do exactly the sort of thing the average user will expect to be able to do?

I was a DOS user and then a Windows user from way back. But silly little things like this always bugged me, and eventually I wised up.

Re:Oh come on!

[artor3]

Weren't Linux users arguing a little while back that Windows ought to ship without a web browser?

(I kid, I kid... I'm pretty sure the majority saw how stupid that would've been)

Re:Oh come on!

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't speak for other distribs since it's been too long since I've used them, but last I checked ubuntu throws up a message on the first attempt at playing a DVD using totem telling you that if you want to play the dvd you have to click ok and allow it to download codecs, which may or may not be legal depending on the laws of your country.

And yes, ubuntu is my main OS (although I haven't done a fresh install in a pretty long time).

Re:Oh come on!

[BikeHelmet]

It's okay - the MPAA are shooting themselves in the foot. Every time a Windows user can't figure out how to play a DVD, a new pirate is born. :D

Re:Oh come on!

[Anonymous Coward]

NOTE: Any and all MS boxes I have seen in the last few years have media center hiding in it. Also many of my dvd's have BASIC codecs or software to play it lurking on the disc. They may not play the sound right though...

Re:Oh come on!

[arkhan_jg]

Same reason that linux doesn't playback MP3, DVDs and h.264 by default. US-only software patents covering the codecs. Without paying the fee, and getting the licences to use the patents, it's illegal to ship it in your US product.

XP added limited MP3 playback, Windows Vista added built in MPEG2 playback, and 7 adds h.264 playback. Yes, XP should have had MPEG2 playback built in, it came out three years after DVD became widely available.

Linux at least has the excuse that free distros can't pay the patent fees and thus can't ship them in the default package to US users (so usually have a 'download it now' option when you first need it, where you promise you don't live in the US, and download from a mirror elsewhere in the world). This is annoying when you do live outside the US, and have to put up with software patent bullshit in everything, even non-US software projects, because they don't want to get sued.

Re:Oh come on!

[Anonymous Coward]

I normally use Apple's DVD player, except when I'm forced to watch previews with the skip and fast-forward disabled, then I'll switch to VLC just out of principle.

Re:Oh come on!

[jimicus]

I'm pretty sure most OEM builds of Windows do ship with some sort of DVD player for exactly this reason, so the average person would never know that Windows can't play DVDs out of the box.

I'm equally sure, however, that NASA almost certainly use their own customised Windows install which very likely does not include DVD playback software.

Re:Oh come on!

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't know about NASA's stance on this, but most corporate environments do not allow users to install and configure non-approved applications. I suspect that DVD player software is not on the approved list of usable software.

Re:Oh come on!

[Anonymous Coward]

There are some distros that contain licensed codecs but I guess most people aren't interested in paying for those.

Re:Oh come on!

[cptdondo]

Not really.

MS has been very successful in convincing the unwashed masses that computers are fraught with problems, and that the typical end user should expect sudden, unanticipated failures for no apparent reason.

So the inability to play a DVD is just shrugged off as another minor quirk of "the computer" - as is the virus infection, the weird slowing down over time, and a host of other issues.

So

Every time a Windows user can't figure out how to play a DVD, a new pirate is born.

just doesn't hold up. It's more like "every time a Windows user can't figure out how to play a DVD, they just shrug and move on."

It's like being married to a cheating spouse. After a while, you get used to the abuse.

Re:Oh come on!

[mdsharpe]

I know this isn't a popular approach on Slashdot, but, I'm guessing they were using Windows XP. Vista can play DVDs out of the box.

Re:Oh come on!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a bug that some distros of Windows can't play DVDs. Every time MS tries to include a feature like an antivirus or a DVD decoder, somebody sues them for being anti-competitive. Your OS is actually part of the problem.

Re:Oh come on!

[sznupi]

Yeah...why distros (at least those non-US based) don't put out fully featured ISOs for download if your IP is from place with more sensible laws? Why do I have to be unconvienienced by some stupid laws that don't apply to me?

(and yes, it hit me few times - you need a working internet connection to have fully functional Linux install)

Re:Oh come on!

[Z34107]

XP came out in 2001. DVDs were still fairly "new" and drives and burners were still expensive. I can forgive them for not bundling DVD playback.

You're forgetting, however, that Vista does include DVD playback software - works out of the box in WMP or Media Center. And that SP2 evidently added BluRay support - to my knowledge, not too many *nix include that by default.

(Yes, you can't really "license" it in a Free OS and cracking it looks like it's turning out to be difficultish.)

Re:Oh come on!

[ion.simon.c]

Um... it's trivial for a USian to use a proxy in some more progressive part of the world to bypass the IP geolocation that you're proposing. I imagine that a user-driven "honour system" method is less likely to make lawyers salivate in anticipation of a payday than a flimsy active denial system that's trivially bypassed.

Remember, half-heartedly *trying* to stop it is worse than doing nothing at all! :D

Re:Oh come on!

[sznupi]

WTF? You need to do much less than using a proxy to get "restricted formats" playback working in current distros. It's usually clicking "Yes" when trying to play them for the first time.

But why do I have to do anything to make it work? Especially since current limitations are far more half-hearted than simply serving full/castrated ISO based on geographc location?

Re:Oh come on!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but you forgot no one uses vista by his own wish.

Re:Oh come on!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's also a reasonable expectation (for many people) that a new computer will be capable of playing their Texas Hold'em or any of the computer games they have laying around the house. Maybe if they buy a computer that costs more money, they'll be getting one that can do everything!

Hmm, let's peruse through the 'average consumer' games aisle....

"Windows 98/ME/2000/NT/XP compatible"

whoops, I just bought a $2,000 computer that has been manufactured for elitist snobs with the expectation that everyone who uses a Windows computer would be better off with a Mac.

Well at least it looks pretty.

Re:Oh come on!

[zuperduperman]

Yep. I like Vista quite a lot, use windows as my main desktop, I'm no Windows hater (also use plenty of linux for all kinds of servers).

But I was dumbfounded to find after installing Vista Business that it wouldn't play a simple DVD out of the box. This is a pretty freakin expensive operating system - off the shelf, hundreds of dollars. How can it not play a simple DVD!!?! Do business people not work with DVDs? How is it that a Home version of windows has this capability and a business version doesn't?

I absolutely detest what MS has done with the fragmentation of the different versions of windows. It's one of their worst decisions IMHO and has a lot more to do with the failure of Vista than people realize.

What about the mission?

[earlymon]

Yeah, easy to hate on Win, love OS X and yadda yadda yadda.

The laptops must have been there for a reason. Perhaps someone in configuration management said, "Gee, it's going into space, it might be mission-critical at some point, so let's not load it up with entertainment stuff and bloatware."

I don't know - I'm in a more than usual snarky mood.

Re:What about the mission?

[1053r]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, if it makes you feel any better. We don't spend billions of dollars sending astronauts into space so they can float around watching Star Wars (although that would be an interesting experience, I must say)

Re:What about the mission?

[earlymon]

Seriously - thanks for getting the point.

It's not that amenities aren't well-deserved - they are. But honestly - would the ability to watch movies have even hit your radar if you were in charge of configuring those PCs? It sure wouldn't have hit mine.

I cannot believe that people are griefing NASA for this one.

Re:What about the mission?

[neomunk]

The way I see it is NASA is sending a small workforce out to a completely desolate location on a days-long mentally exhausting assignment, being in full control of what they can and cannot take. To not provide adequate provisions for the crew to relax properly and gain some enjoyment is a failure of management. These aren't robots in a factory we're talking about, they are people in a very small place they cannot leave for any reason (under penalty of horrible, horrible death), they NEED to be able to relax (by their own standards, not yours or mine) in order to do their job properly (and not die).

Re:What about the mission?

[earlymon]

...NASA...being in full control of what they can and cannot take.

You bet your boots they are.

These aren't robots in a factory we're talking about...

I don't think anyone said that they were.

What I said was that this is the last thing a configuration manager might think of independently - and that's assuming that such a configuration manager and staff exists. Once upon a time, NASA was quite strict in knowing and controlling things to the last iota in space. Let's see if we can find the process definition - here it is: http://www.spaceref.com/shuttle/computer/PGSC.CM.Plan.doc

That's an older copy, but the best that I could do on short notice.

So, let's be clear:
1. NASA isn't a faceless Big Brother
2. NASA has a lot of people trying to coordinate a lot of stuff
3. NASA develops processes to ensure that everything's taken care of, within the reasonable limits of human error (they even have processes to improve processes)
4. The process for what software goes into POC - Portable Onboard Computers - exists and is well-defined

So, if another config board allowed for entertainment DVDs to go up, then someone missed this config board meeting about it.

If, on the other hand, they tell astronauts that they can take up to two pounds of personal items (my made up example) such as books, MP3 players (I don't know) within volume constraints of X cc, etc - then maybe an astronaut missed a config meeting.

I grief on NASA all of the time - but I think your griefing is misplaced, as is that of people ragging the tune, "NASA management sucks," for this particular subject. Astronauts aren't robots - but neither are they helpless victims of a careless NASA that cruelly sends them in harm's way without a lot of foresight and planning.

Either someone -possibly the astronauts themselves - didn't follow a process or screwed up and missed a meeting or someone now has the job of improving a process or creating a new sub-process.

And that's my response to any arguments on this particular subject of a) NASA has bad management, b) NASA is stupid, c) it's so easy, they should have just thought of this, d) they use the wrong PCs, and e) NASA doesn't care.

If anyone's interested in conjecture, here's mine: if NASA were a military organization, either the DVDs would have never made it into space or the POCs would be able to play them - the military has moral and entertainment officers for a reason, and they do tend to think about taking care of people whose jobs place them in life and death situations. Taxpayers don't question those roles and Tony Curtis made generations laugh playing that role in movies. But I can just imagine the outcry if it got out in the popular press that NASA has job openings for "Entertainment and Moral Coordiantor, Shuttle and ISS Directorate." Yeah - that would get funded. (Hell - maybe the job already exists and is staffed. If so - then THEY missed the meetings.)

I agree with the idea that if I were in space, the last thing I'd do with that little precious time off would be to watch an idiot box.

I equally agree with the idea that if I were in space, the first thing I'd do is watch Star Wars (OK, maybe Bab 5, but that's me) if I got the chance.

If I had to choose to which story to tell at parties where people would be buying me drinks, I'd choose the second.

Re:What about the mission?

[earlymon]

Yeah ... moral was supposed to be morale. I'm a Grammar Nazi, not a Spelling Nazi. See also, http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1221921&cid=27828087 for clarification this.

Thank you.

Re:What about the mission?

[earlymon]

So, yeah, I agree, it's a failure of management. My point was - self-management, middle-management, upper-management?

Re:What about the mission?

[neomunk]

I don't want to specify which portion of management, because I really don't know. My best guess would be a scenario such as follows:

Astronaut: Hey, I want to bring some DVDs
Item Allowance Person: That should be fine.
Astronaut: Is there anything that can play it?
Item Allowance Person: Well, the laptops have DVD drives...

So I completely agree that WHOSE failure of management it was is undetermined, but it seems sloppy to me. To clear the air, I'd like to point out that the rantishness evident in my post was actually inspired by the people posting (like the poster threaded 2 above my original post) who seem to be of the opinion that there are more important things to be doing up there than watching a movie. I find that short sighted and unempathetic in the extreme.

And on a personal note, nice sig.

Re:What about the mission?

[earlymon]

No prob - we're cool. My rantishness was driven by a lot of other posters, too. Hey - thanks on the sig thing.

Depends ...

[visible.frylock]

Are you using BSD?

I kid, really, please don't crack my xp box.

Re:Wow. They're in space and want to watch movies?

[perryizgr8]

hey! they just want some of good 'ol star trek.

There aren't Personal PC's

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to realize that the DVD's were a just in case item and weren't planed on being used but regardless, the computers are Nasa computers. Not personal Pc's that most of you use. Most of the free software that you all know and love is free for personal use, but usually not corporate use. There needs to be a paid license and the computer IT guys need to take care of that but probably won't as they won't pay for software that isn't directly related to space missions. The thing is that I do get it, (if we are assuming windows) is actually pretty useless out of the box. The first thing most of us do is install a whole pile of software just so we can get out machines to do what we want them to do and I think that at this point it's getting unacceptable to have a gigabyte OS and it still doesn't do anything will out adding more software.

Re:There aren't Personal PC's

[meringuoid]

Most of the free software that you all know and love is free for personal use, but usually not corporate use.

Er... what? How would that be free software?

Re:There aren't Personal PC's

[petrus4]

I think that at this point it's getting unacceptable to have a gigabyte OS and it still doesn't do anything will out adding more software.

I know we're supposed to be used to ACs making dumb comments, but seriously. There are plenty of small or potentially bare bones FOSS operating systems available.

I can't comprehend why they'd be using anything other than NetBSD in space anywayz.

Watching movies? Really?

[paulwye]

Um, am I the only one who read that and thought, "They're aboard the shuttle...in space...and they're going to watch a movie? Really? That's the first choice for how to spend a day in a circumstance that basically nobody else on the goddamn planet is going to have a shot at for a really, really long time?

But perhaps more importantly: what were they going to watch?

Actually, I just got an idea for a poll.

Airlocked in a spaceship

[Anonymous Coward]

This is you.

when you're orbiting the planet at 17,200MPH

[AftanGustur]

Have you any idea how many "regions" you're going through in just 20 minutes ..

No wonder they didn't make it through the "Thy shall not copy this DVD" part.

Re:when you're orbiting the planet at 17,200MPH

[Anonymous Coward]

Orbiting at 17200 MPH doesn't mean traveling over 17200 miles of earth per hour, you have to do the whole angular velocity accounting for different radii. I haven't bothered to do the math, but it may be possible that 20 minutes only works out half the distance over the U.S. (Satelites are traveling VERY FAST but yet remain in Geosynchronous orbit - i.e. they remain in a single region "Forever")

Re:when you're orbiting the planet at 17,200MPH

[LordKronos]

Since they are working on Hubble, and Wikipedia says Hubble has an orbital period of 96-97 minutes, and the circumference of the earth is about 24,900 miles, that means it orbits at a ground speed of around 15,500 mph. The continental US is roughly 3000 miles across between the 2 furthest points (Florida Keys to Washington Olymplic Peninsula) so you are talking about 12 minutes max to cross the US

Region 8 (sideways)

[grepya]

Don't they know, outer space is region 8 (*laid down sideways). MPAA is still working on the technology to allow playback there.

Re:Region 8 (sideways)

[jonaskoelker]

MPAA is still working on the technology to allow playback there.

Yeah, commenting out if (disc.region == player.region) before the { play(disc); } is really something novel...

Although... can you "comment out" a (sub)circuit that's already been cast into silicon? I s'pose you can cut it off and replace it with a big resistor (if it's linear)...

Re:Region 8 (sideways)

[initialE]

You've never seen the crew of Serenity watch a movie. And those are pirates if I've ever seen them. Now you know who won the war.

If you're going to ship humans to Mars

[symbolset]

Then on a long trip decent porn is pretty much a mission requirement. They had better figure this out or human spaceflight is doomed to low earth orbit. 0G sex is good for the folks who need to check that box, but novelty wears off after a while.

Re:If you're going to ship humans to Mars

[Anonymous Coward]

Zero-G sex is still sex. When the novelty has worn off sex, that's when you're ready to die.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

VLC isn't supported very well and should be your last-resort if all else fails.

Media Player Classic Home Cinema is a much superior player that also has built-in playback codecs.

What does "isn't supported very well" mean? VLC's got a lot more active a community behind it - just compare the size of the forums for each.
The big thing that VLC has over MPC and most other DVD players on windows is that it is completely independent of Microsoft's DirectShow filter system which is pretty much the equivalent of DLL hell, but for codecs.

VLC may not have the slickest user interface and it may not be the most efficient media player since it has virtually no support for hardware acceleration, but it in its current form it is pretty much bullet proof - no matter what kind of system configuration problems you've got, it usually "just works." It isn't my player of choice, but it is my last ditch player because it pretty much plays anything.

FFSSP

[sigxcpu]

I'm sure the ISS has a working DVD player on it.
One difference between a real pirate and a software pirate is that you only hear about software pirates when they fail.
So you should probably say that they are the first failed Space Software Pirates. (abbreviate to FFSSP and it may even sound cool)

Re:FFSSP

[MaskedSlacker]

I bet the ISS has several working players, one for each region code with a member state.

Re:FFSSP

[Anonymous Coward]

...or just use a dvd-rom that doesn't have utter crap region code lock thing. I've never had any trouble with having to set region codes on my computers (not counting the damn macbooks at work).

Re:FFSSP

[Lachlan Hunt]

It depends if the DVD drive has RPC-1 or RPC-2 firmware installed on it. With RPC-1 firmware, you can change the region any number of times. With RPC-2, you're limited to just 5.

It also depends on whether the drive enforces the region encoding in the firmware, or whether it's left to the software. In the latter case, software such as VLC can easily bypass the region encoding. But in the former case, since it's the drive itself enforcing it, it can't. This is the case with the shitty Matshitsu drives that Apple commonly ships. Luckily, for some drives, there's RPC-1 firmware available from rpc1.org so you can reflash the drive.

Re:FFSSP

[CeasedCaring]

NASA bought "modded" DVD players (ie: region-free converted) from a firm in England for use aboard the ISS.

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[clgoh]

Probably not Apollo 13...

Chatty Tech Support..

[spokedoke]

From TFA, they worked with tech support for "More than an hour".

Astronauts must go through some seriously painful training if they can spend that much time on the phone with IT

Uhh...Did you try restarting the computer?

Re:Chatty Tech Support..

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, remember, half of the time is spent on hold. And given that they called Houston, there's that Texas Drawl to get through. So really, it was only about 5 minutes of actual support.

Re:Chatty Tech Support..

[Rocketship Underpant]

That's because "Bob from Houston" is actually Assim from Bangalore who just reads through a long list of unrelated technical questions in an unintelligible accent before putting the astronaut on hold and accidentally disconnecting him.

Re:Chatty Tech Support..

[Phroggy]

Astronauts must go through some seriously painful training if they can spend that much time on the phone with IT

Well, what else are they going to do, take a walk?

Re:Hi Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

No goatse = phail.

Software?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are we sure that NASA actually bought laptops with DVD drives in them?

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[BikeHelmet]

Yes, I agree with most of your points. VLC is very well supported, on a lot of operating systems - but certain parts of it just aren't good.

For example, the lack of acceleration makes compatibility great across the board, but it makes it dog slow on every OS. Until recently it was also single threaded - actually, it might still be. 1080p isn't even possible on most CPUs, while with MPC-HC, DirectShow + GPU acceleration, you'd be looking at 15-20% CPU usage max. (and you get to enable quality enhancing shaders)

I'm not saying it's bad; it just has a different featureset, with compatibility prioritized over...

-An intuitive UI
-A good hotkey scheme
-Hardware acceleration
-GPU shader/codec support
-Ability to use (impressive) directshow codecs

Unfortunately for me, compatibility hasn't been so great on my computers. I've always had less trouble with MPC-HC. VLC doesn't play audio on one of my computers, and it gets aspect ratios screwed up on another. (How? No clue. It doesn't have any acceleration, so I'm totally baffled.)

I've also repeatedly come across videos that it has no support for. In the end, if MPC-HC + KliteMega can't open it, I just go for MPlayer. (which almost never fails, but has an even worse UI. Or rather, it has no UI; it's just a box with the video playing in it. :x

To each his own. My Uncle has a Mac, and he says VLC beats the pants off Quicktime. Heh - I agree with him! :P

I just wouldn't take VLC if I had the chance to get a nice DirectShow media player(like MPC-HC) and ffdshow.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[ArsenneLupin]

I've always had less trouble with MPC-HC

Speak for yourself. I had even trouble fucking downloading that stuff. Despite being on Sourceforge, sources seem to nowhere be found. Or maybe the download is just broken today? Does anybody know how to report a project on sourceforge?

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[x2A]

Err... how?!

Google -> search 'media player classic home cinema' -> click top result -> click 'download' on the left -> choose the version you want (win32/x86_64) and click the 'download' link on the right -> gives you list of versions (somewhat redundant here), click the full filename (eg, mplayerc_homecinema_x86_v1.2.908.0.zip), save it to disk. How can you go wrong?

I have no idea why..

[Cheney]

And I absolutely shudder to understand why but this whole movie just made me think of the God forsaken movie about ol' Mark Twain and his beloved comet. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088678/ Hold me, please?

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[ArsenneLupin]

I tried downloading the x86 version, but there was no source in there...

Re:LOL

[OrangeCatholic]

Waht is the rule for anwering the squetion?

Is Playing a DVD Harder Than Rocket Science?

Incorrect?!

Do I get "Canoyon of Heores?" Y/N/Mayube?

Perhaps the nautical equivalent?

[Gazzonyx]

Poseidon Adventure?

Sarat says

[Anonymous Coward]

Weren't there any Jedi to help them out?

Re:the numba 1

[Anonymous Coward]

way to fail AC

Thinking out of the box

[Anonymous Coward]

Why didn't NASA just arrange to play movie requests on a string of large format stadium screens and the guys from the shuttle then point Hubble at them as they orbit? I'm sure they could have found a composite video output somewhere and watched on a shuttle monitor.

See, there's often a simple solution to these kind of problems.

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, am I the only one who read that and thought, "They're aboard the shuttle...in space...and they're going to watch a movie?

Ummm yes.... What else would you have them do? Space isn't a magical place that suddenly because exciting because you get a funny feeling watching Star Trek. I can't imagine a more boring place. It's nothing but a vast empty abyss. Plus it's not like they can go off exploring neighbouring planets at warp speed.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Barny]

Then, load both :)

When I pre-install computers for my customers, they get both pre-loaded (use CCCP for MPC, it loads the codecs needed, and configures it for it automagically).

I agree though, MPC is much nicer interface than VLC, but when you are troubleshooting VLC is the best thing on the planet, it "just works".

What's with the UI???

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a frigging DVD player.

Play. Stop. Pause. FFW, REW.

What's there for the bloody UI??? My hardware DVD player doesn't have a "UI". Why must my software one?

Re:What's with the UI???

[honestmonkey]

Would that I had mod points I'd give you some, but I'll just agree instead. I use Play and Pause, and occasionally drag the little bar across to skip when I might have watched half a show already. So I guess a time display is good too. I rarely even use FF or Rewind, or even Stop.

Of course, I don't play DVDs on my computer, that's what a wide-screen TV and DVD player are for.

Re:What's with the UI???

[VGPowerlord]

Really? My hardware DVD player has a remote with about 40 buttons on it. Those include:
1 button to turn it on/off.
1 button to eject.
1 button to switch subtitle languages.
1 button to switch audio languages.
1 button to switch angles for DVDs that are recorded with mutiple angles.
5 buttons to navigate menus (4 arrows plus OK)
4 buttons to *open* menus (root, chapter, can't remember the other two; I'm at work right now)
7 navigation buttons: Play, Stop, Pause, FFW, REW, Previous Chapter, Next Chapter
10 number buttons: 0-9. Used to select chapters, I think.
and a bunch of other buttons I don't remember.

And no, this isn't a multi-function remote, it only contains controls for the DVD Player.

Re:What's with the UI???

[PitaBred]

Your hardware DVD player doesn't have a User Interface? So how do you start the video playing? Stop it? Skip chapters? How in the fuck did this get insightful? A software DVD player needs a UI because it doesn't have dedicated buttons like a hardware player.

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[Tom]

For one thing, the novelty of it all wears off rather quickly, I assume. Then it's just pretty difficult living conditions. The other reason is that the ISS doesn't have an observation deck, so aside from the absence of gravity, you're simply in a bunch of big steel tubes.

What basement dwellers, those astronauts!

[Opportunist]

The ultimate, extreme geek. There you are, with the most scenic view of all times. For many it would be a once in a lifetime opportunity, to see the earth in its whole glory, from above the clouds...

And what do you want to do? Watch a DVD movie.

Re:What basement dwellers, those astronauts!

[freedom_india]

Actually no. These are not first-time astronauts. They have "been there, done that".
After a few times it gets boring to look at the same Blue,Grey globe slowly revolve under you...
A movie brings you down to Earth.
Whenever i get lonely in a foreign country the first thing i do is to watch "Used Cars" or "American Pie 2" to beat the blues. Kinda like that.

Re:What basement dwellers, those astronauts!

[alexandre_ganso]

After a few times it gets boring to look at the same Blue,Grey globe slowly revolve under you...

Did you try?

Re:What basement dwellers, those astronauts!

[freedom_india]

Point taken. Sorry. My Opinion != fact

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[BikeHelmet]

So what you're saying is, you had no problem downloading the program, but you want source code instead?

Well, I'll be honest - I have no clue where the source is available - but does it really matter?

When most people go to download VLC, they're looking for a compiled binary - not the source code. I'm pretty sure your complaint isn't a valid slight against the project. It's just your personal preference to not use something where the source isn't available.

I'm fine with that - but don't make it into a problem of the software. There's tons of great closed source software. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be closed source, but I really wouldn't care if it was, since it does the job and does it well.

PS. I believe some of the filters have their source code included, but that's hardly the entire project.

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[ILongForDarkness]

My thoughts exactly. What is it costing 1M per hour to keep them in space and they decide to watch a movie instead?

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[TornCityVenz]

I would think just about ANYTHING you could do in space would be a better use of your time that watching a stupid movie.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[MattBurke]

It's not supported very well in that nobody's bothered to make a build for my Debian Etch workstation. Etch is only 2 years old for christ's sake! Why isn't there even just a statically compiled version?

I also note the typical unqualified "all open source software is bulletproof" response. The version in Debian will neither play DVDs at all (WTF?) nor seek through many types of videos on my workstation without crashing (libmatroska::KaxCluster::GlobalTimecodeScale() const: Assertion `bTimecodeScaleIsSet' failed). You should see the problems I had with it recently under _clean_ installs of XP (refusing to play anything) and OSX (locking up the machine) too... Even when it does work (which admittedly is most of the time), it's still prone to the occasional lock-up.

Wait, so does this mean...?

[jonaskoelker]

Does this mean Windows isn't ready for the Average Joe's desktop yet? ;-)

There are already people posting "well, they should have checked to make sure their computer could play DVDs." Why?

Because they're sending it into space. If you send stuff into space, and you want to expect it to work, you test it.

One good reason: it's really hard to service once it's up there. Should it be the case that the testing of DVD playback is trying it once, saying "yep, it works", and then moving on? Yeah, I'm coll with that. But if you want it to work in space, you test it.

I have a guess

[jonaskoelker]

But perhaps more importantly: what were they going to watch?

See the young girls wearing skimpy little space suits, lying on the Andromeda beach, catching some sun and a mild gust of solar wind. [something about sex, short-term relationships and jealousy]. Tune in tomorrow, where we see who will have to leave... the Paradise Planet.

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, am I the only one who read that and thought, "They're aboard the shuttle...in space...and they're going to watch a movie? Really?

Well, i read from somewhere, that it's hard to have sex in zero G. So yeah, what else could they do? Watch some pr0n and masturbate. What would you do? Moon the moon?

As a side note, someone should extrude a pun out of "having sex in/with zero G" (muawhahwa).

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[x2A]

Usually if the architecture's mentioned (eg, i386, x86_64) then that's already compiled, as that's showing the architecture's machinecode it's been compiled to. Sourcecode is usually written in an architecture independant language, like C, ie, it can be compiled to run on any processor that there is a C compiler that targets. Obviously it's not quite as simple with Windows apps, as even though the C code may be arch independant, API calls used from the code usually aren't (support from wine etc being exceptions).

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[SlashWombat]

VLC isn't supported very well and should be your last-resort if all else fails.

Wat planet do you come from?

Ever since I found that VLC plays virtually everything you can throw at it, it has become my primary media player. It is TINY compared to M$ offering, and you never get the bloody ridiculous "looking for a suitable CODEC ... Could not download a suitable Codec" thing that happens with the excretable media player software. I recommend VLC to everyone having problems with their media files, and these people generally make it their default media player as well!

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[jimicus]

I imagine the novelty of staring at the Earth from space and bouncing around in zero gravity wears off after the first 10 or 15 hours of having nothing else to do.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[rdnetto]

I agree.
While VLC will play back pretty much anything for me, I've had issues with frames freezing/skipping randomly when watching something in 1280x1008 on a pretty capable system (4GB RAM, Core 2 Duo). SMPlayer plays back the same files perfectly.
The difference is more pronounced on lower end systems (512 MB RAM, P4), where VLC wouldn't get past the first frame. Admittedly, SMPlayer only managed a framerate of 1 FPS, but at least it didn't freeze the way VLC did.

Re:LOL

[digitalchinky]

It's simple: There is no rule, just one (1) statement.

(Excuse my profanity)
You're in Fucking Space! SPACE! At best this is going to happen only a handful of times in the average astronauts lifetime, more likely only once, what the hell are they doing with a DVD player!?!

In the ask slashdot submission queue:

[Fr05t]

"I'm currently orbiting the Earth for an extra 24 hours because of weather delays and trying to watch a DVD..."

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[ArsenneLupin]

source is in svn/cvs, fucking learn how to check it out.

No problem with that, but other packages usually make a tar-ball of a known-good version available.

Svn/cvs is great if you want to participate in development, but a little bit suboptimal if you don't. Hundreds of questions pop up, such as which tag to get (if versions are even tagged...), and is generally a hassle if all you want is just compile and run the stuff.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, let me get this right; you're refusing to use MPC because you can't find the source code, and want to 'report [the] project on sourceforge' because of that?
Firstly, "svn co https://mpc-hc.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/mpc-hc mpc-hc".
Secondly, obvious troll is obvious.

What effect does low - zero gravity have on a DVD

[nibbles2004]

would the low gravity have an effect on playing a DVD

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[ArsenneLupin]

Ok, so how do you start this fucking thing? The zip doesn't contain any usable binary either...

A DVD player in earth orbit

[Markee]

Hey astronauts, maybe you should not have set a new country code every 15 minutes while passing over the next continent....

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Swizec]

Personally I use VLC as my main movie watching player. 1080p HD videos work flawlessly on the linux desktop and I've jsut never ever had any problems with it in any way. It just works and it just works well.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

He's talking about source packages, and as far as I can see, there's only binary packages available for download there...

MOD PARENT UP!

[mrsurb]

MOD PARENT UP, +1 Violation of DCMA

Re:MOD PARENT UP!

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD PARENT UP, +1 Violation of DCMA

DCMA? What's that? Some agreement between the District of Columbia and Massachusetts?

Re:LOL

[initialE]

Yeah! Have sex! even gay sex! anything is better than the latest crap you would have gotten at the nearest blockbuster back home.

I bet it was region-coded

[SharpFang]

and the player would play only DVDs certified for Low Earth Orbit area.

Re:LOL

[multi io]

what the hell are they doing with a DVD player!?!

Watch latest sequels of "Earthlight -- Breathtaking pictures of Earth from Space" in HD?

Global patent ... in space?

[kramulous]

I was more of the opinion that the patents were global. Playing them in space is not a breach.

I say this with my extensive knowledge of law. Yeah. It's the vibe.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[BikeHelmet]

I'm pretty sure an .exe file is a "usable binary".

32bit link
64bit link

Unzip into its own folder somewhere. Lots of people use C:\Program Files\Media Player Classic\

Start it up, open the options and set file associations. If you want to be able to open it without opening a video, create a shortcut too, and drag it to the start menu.

For output options, I find EVR custom works best - but if that isn't available, go for VMR9 renderless.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

I just go for MPlayer. (which almost never fails, but has an even worse UI. Or rather, it has no UI; it's just a box with the video playing in it. :x

More like a perfect UI. Like a good old TV, before they added all those complicated menus that only geeks can figure out how to use. Just hit the key on the remote/keyboard (yes, mplayer works with remotes, at least on Linux). No need to hunt through menus, just to find out that whatever you wanted isn't in the menu, but in a toolbar that isn't displayed in the current skin, and just how do you switch to a sensible skin anyway (MS Media Player).

so

[Anonymous Coward]

Space Fapping!

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[BikeHelmet]

Hey, it's Windows software. Tarballs are more of a hassle than SVN on windows! :P

Thank goodness for TortoiseSVN.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[BikeHelmet]

The difference is more pronounced on older systems.

For example, when trying to get a video to play on an old 300mhz P2 laptop with 2.5MB of video memory and 128MB of RAM!

VLC? Good luck playing anything. Media Player Classic + ffdshow? Actually fast enough to watch xvids if you pick a properly optimized version and tweak the output settings a bit.

That was an experiment I did on an old lappy... I was quite impressed that I got it to play mostly stutter-free. :D

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's the build:

http://packages.debian.org/etch/graphics/vlc

Here's the source:

http://packages.debian.org/source/etch/vlc

Are you a moron or just a bad troll?

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[miknix]

For example, the lack of acceleration makes compatibility great across the board, but it makes it dog slow on every OS.

Not every, I have OpenGL and XVMC outputs on Linux which are hardware accelerated (by the glx backend and nvidia's xvmc implementation respectively). VLC is also benefiting from my CPU's MMX, 3DNOW, MMXEXT, SSE and SSE2.

Did you look through VLC's options? These video outputs might be Linux specific but it doesn't make much sense that the windows build doesn't include the CPU optimizations.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[pizzach]

MPlayer is shit if you are using the GUI. Just...don't AGHRRR.

VLC is much more than a video player, which may be part of it's downfall. Notice the name implying network connections, almost like it may have originally been meant for some other purpose. Like streaming video as a server...

As for the Quicktime thing...I personally find the interface for VLC nicer on Macs than on Windows. Actually, Quicktime is nicer on Macs too. A bit funny though, QuickTime has some limited hardware acceleration on newer machines which you were talking about being important to you...

Nice idea but legally wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

The space shuttle is a USA (space) ship and so remains part of USA wherever it is, just as a normal ship does.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing. Thats the point.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[JasterBobaMereel]

Does it play the DVD, full screen? if the answer is yes then the GUI is irrelevant, the speed is irrelevant, the threading is irrelevant, they are just niceties for getting the movie playing and doing other things while the movie is playing (are you watching the movie or not?)

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[goarilla]

I've also repeatedly come across videos that it has no support for. In the end, if MPC-HC + KliteMega can't open it, I just go for MPlayer. (which almost never fails, but has an even worse UI. Or rather, it has no UI; it's just a box with the video playing in it. :x

i would like to point you to a very complete qt/cross-platform MPlayer front-end http://smplayer.sourceforge.net/ its MPlayer build is also the most
complete i've ever seen on windows

I echo that

[Anonymous Coward]

People (nerds actually, not real people, but let's not get bogged up in details) once told me how great they though VLC was and how it played anything and everything, but when I tried it on my machine, which may not be brand new but still heavily overpowered for most video playback, the results were so jittery I got kind of seasick, hard to describe. Went back to Media Player. Anyway, DirectShow's "DLL hell" is not as bad as it used to be, since nowadays there are simple little tools that can tell you exactly why video isn't playing or playing wrongly (usual answers: you need codex X / media type ABCD is handled by Y but why don't you try Z instead). And conceptually the DirectShow system is much better, a common extensible system that all programs can tap into. Compared to that, having all your own codecs clearly qualifies as a Bad Thing software-engineeringwise. But in the early days it was hard to do any diagnostics because Microsoft made the big mistake of not shipping anything with Windows to do this. And of course a lot of older codecs were simply buggy. Thankfully things are much better today, I can't even remember the last time I had to switch codecs.

waste of time

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would they have brought movie dvd's with them in the first place? That's really sad if they couldn't find anything better to do. I mean they could at least play around with some video or still cameras and take interesting photos in 0G. Particularly since this is one of the last space shuttle flights ever, you think they would make better use of the time. Pathetic.

I guess you can't Stream it

[Onyma]

It's suggest they stream the movie to them but you know what they say... In space, no one can hear your stream.

Re:I guess you can't Stream it

[flibuste]

Aaaahh I wish I had just ONE mod point.
You win the day.

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[DerCed]

Watching planet earth from outer space will be fascinating for an hour and the fascination will be renewed whenever lighting chances or any other circumstances lead to a new view. However, staring 8 hours at a blue ball will not be fascinating enough.
Maybe for a Zen buddhist, yes, but not for scientists/astronaut hybrids.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[ArsenneLupin]

Tried the 64 bit link that you posted, but unfortunately, it contains only garbage too...

Sounds odd....

[PhotoGuy]

Wasn't there a story recently about how mission control managed to upload the whole freakin' Spiderman movie lately for the astronauts? How would uploading a codec or VLC be harder than that?

I'm also surprised they would bring DVD's. Why bring several clunky physical media, when the movies could have been pre-copied to the hard drives (ripped, that is). I rip movies from legal DVD's to the hard drive when I go on a mere business trip; one would think when you're going on the damn shuttle you pack even lighter...

Just seems very strange.

Re:Sounds odd....

[kandela]

It takes time to rip something. A DVD can be grabbed as an afterthought. Too bad they didn't grab a book as an afterthought instead.

Re:Sounds odd....

[VGPowerlord]

I'm also surprised they would bring DVD's. Why bring several clunky physical media, when the movies could have been pre-copied to the hard drives (ripped, that is). I rip movies from legal DVD's to the hard drive when I go on a mere business trip; one would think when you're going on the damn shuttle you pack even lighter...

...because they're a US government agency and the DMCA makes DVD ripping illegal?

(See Also: Universal v. Reimerdes)

I guess they should have....

[yabos]

bought a Mac! :p

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

For example, the lack of acceleration makes compatibility great across the board, but it makes it dog slow on every OS.

You would be mistaken. VLC outputs to direct3d.

DRM - Devil's wRong Maintenance

[Techmeology]

I suspect they had laptops with a DVD drives in. I also suspect they fell foul of the DRM built into most commercial DVDs rather than a lack of DVD codecs. Which is silly since, with internet access, you can download software to remove it anyway. Result? -Hinders people who bought legitimate DVDs -Doesn't hinder very much people making illegal copies (who presumably aren't doing so in from Earth orbit)

Re:DRM - Devil's wRong Maintenance

[freakmn]

That makes me wonder. What exactly is the region code for orbit? Would that fall under region 8?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD_region_code

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

not supported very well?

VLC is in the debian repositories. MPC isn't.

Which one isn't supported very well?

Modems

[CobaltBlueDW]

If NASA can get internet, and NASA communicates with the space station... What era is NASA living in, if the space station can't get an internet connection. The internet solves all problems, especially missing codec problems.

I'm scratching "Be an Astronaut" off my life goals list. Seriously, stuck in a room for months and months on end with OUT an internet connection?!

No pizza, and no internet make homer... something, something.

Re:Modems

[Phroggy]

If NASA can get internet, and NASA communicates with the space station... What era is NASA living in, if the space station can't get an internet connection. The internet solves all problems, especially missing codec problems.

The Space Station can get Internet access. They're not on the Space Station. They're on a shuttle, next to the Hubble Telescope.

Re:LOL

[Tisha_AH]

Yes, going into space would be cool, a once in a lifetime event and almost every breathing human being would be utterly flabbergasted by the view and the opportunity. I think that there is an aspect that you are overlooking;

The activities that NASA assigns the shuttle crew, mission specialists and spacewalkers is very intensive and intellectually exhausting. Being in space for a week to two weeks and having nearly every minute of your time mapped out and assigned creates an incredible amount of stress.

Working on earth, in a conventional job. Let's say as a programmer, working 16 hour days with a team of bosses standing right behind you and monitoring your every keystroke, you would find yourself exhausted and looking for a mental margarita after a very short time.

NASA cannot make it to the Mos Eisley Cantina on the planet Tatooine where the crew can have a few beers and tease the imperial storm troopers (Star Wars reference). Being able to take 2-3 hours out of a mission to watch a movie is most certainly a welcome diversion.

For a historical reference look up what happened on Skylab 3 when NASA ground controllers assigned too many tasks to the station crew. After a few days the Skylab 3 crew "went out on strike" for a day and refused to answer any ground communications unless it was an emergency. They needed the downtime to rest and relax. After that incident NASA became a bit more relaxed in how many micromanaged tasks they would burden astronauts with and began to put relaxation time into their mission planning.

Re:LOL

[JoeMerchant]

The reason it didn't work was because it was off the planned itinerary, nobody ran it in the simulator prior to liftoff. I doubt they'll have this particular problem a second time.

I'd hope that this points out the need for a higher bandwidth connection to the vehicle while on orbit - that would be a useful infrastructure piece for so much more than just downloading MS Silverlight and streaming a movie from Netflix.

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Watching 2001: A Space Odyssey in /space/ would be pretty cool, if somewhat time consuming

Re:LOL

[j1mmy]

think about it like being on a vacation. you can't fill every minute of every day with something unique and fun. the problem with being on a space station is that you're on a space station. there isn't much to do up there to begin with.

Re:LOL

[zippthorne]

There are people in the world who are just boring and unimaginitive. People who aren't stupid, but just don't think of interesting things to do, and aren't interested in doing them anyway, even if someone else thinks of them and invites them along.

You can tell who they are by their reaction to this xkcd comic.

Such a person would never think of passing the time with a game of space-tag (too childish) or rocket-dancing (too touchy, inadvertently suggestive name.). So a movie (and not a particularly exciting one, btw. Probably something like French Kiss ) is the obvious choice.

Apparently, the space program has become so routine that such people have found their way there. I've no idea how that's even possible (if you're that dull, what would possess you to apply for astronaut training?)

Re:LOL

[Tsunayoshi]

think about it like being on a vacation. you can't fill every minute of every day with something unique and fun

You obviously haven't been on a vacation with my wife, her goal is exactly that (much to my frustration).

At the risk of being called a Luddite...

[Dream492]

How about a book?

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Whilst back in the real world, I select a file, I press play and it always works - why would I want anything else.

Same can be said for Xine if your on Linux and have that automatically.

Why are we launching DVDs into orbit?

[Simulant]

    Nobody thought to rip 'em to the hd? I was under the impression that every ounce counted when launching a shuttle.

Re:Why are we launching DVDs into orbit?

[kbaud]

You would think.. The rate for the shuttle is about $10k a pound last I checked. This has not stopped them from carrying aboard big heavy outdated Maglites weighing several pounds when smaller, brighter LED flashlights can easily be found. From pictures I have seen, the shuttle crew uses 3D cell size mags (along with 2AA size). I estimated how much the tax payers where paying to carrying those things in orbit with all their spare batteries (since they have such a poor runtime). I came up with over 20lbs of flashlights and batteries costing the taxpayer over $200k a launch. I suspect they have to use them since mag has a bunch of lobbyists. But I am sure this is not the only example.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Eunuchswear]

VLC is much more than a video player, which may be part of it's downfall. Notice the name implying network connections, almost like it may have originally been meant for some other purpose. Like streaming video as a server...

Not exactly, the "C" in VLC is "Client". You want (or rather were supposed to want) VLS for streaming as a server. But over time VLC grew to do all the things VLS did, and more, so bye bye VLS.

Re:LOL

[hesaigo999ca]

I did not know they had gone on strike...if I had some points I would have modded you informative....just to let you know... : )

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I recall a documentary about the future of space tourism and in it the (professional) NASA astronauts being interviewed all agreed that you can never get tired of watching earth below you - it's the most beautiful thing they've ever seen. I guess tourists would stare at it unlike any other attraction in the history of tourism if professionals never get tired of it. Some said that it gives you an incredible feel of tranquility and you can relax no matter how stressed you are due to work there. I'm inclined to believe them, judging from the pictures I've seen.

How should *I* prepare before takeoff then?

[judhaz]

I mean - what are the basic "yum install *list of codecs*", "apt-get install *list of codecs*", "opkg install *list of codecs*", etc?
Seriously - this could be quite useful, even for a weekend trip down here at the surface...
(And yes, I do not live in the USA, not even Sweden. Damn, I'm a lucky boy.)

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

NASA cannot make it to the Mos Eisley Cantina on the planet Tatooine where the crew can have a few beers and tease the imperial storm troopers (Star Wars reference). [...]

* Mos Eisley
* Tatooine
* Imperial Storm Troopers

Hmm... yeah, somewhere along the lines here I thought you might be making a subtle Star Wars reference, but thank you for clarifying.

Outer Space Treaty of 1969

[Vandil X]

The Outer Space Treaty of 1969 prohibits land claims in space by member nations. Even if that "land" happens to be a shuttle or a space station.

The shuttle is the property of the United States and those on board are guests of the United States and subject to prosecution (and protections) of US laws and the management decisions of the US.

So, they're not in Region 1.

I can't be the only one wondering...

[ausekilis]

How the hell did they get DVD's up there to begin with? Aren't there some checks for 'contraband' before they even get on the shuttle?

And please tell me one of the DVD's was Apollo 13. That would be hilarious.

They could just listen to some music instead

[Alzheimers]

Ground control to Major Tom...

Couldnt play DVDs?

[Anonymous Coward]

What, did they get them from 0bama?

Re:LOL

[sjames]

It's quite possible that after many hours of hard work in a space suit a couple hours of relative normalcy was just what they needed to refresh their appreciation for the wondrous environment they were in.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

I think Apollo 13 would suit their situation better

New MPAA trailer

[hansamurai]

You wouldn't steal a space shuttle...

iPod not the first MP3 player

[gizmo2199]

Bzzzzzz!!! Wrong!!

There were dozens of MP3 players on the market before the iPod came out in 2001.
In fact the first mass-produced MP3 player came out in 1998--a full 3 years before
the iPod. The iPod was the only when that people had to have to be "cool" and so that's
why you think it was the first one.

Anyone remember when total strangers would exchange their iPods when they were
walking down the street or whatever, to hear what the other was listening to?
That was a weird and awkward fad. Funny, now that everyone and his mom has an iPod
people don't do that anymore.

Re:iPod not the first MP3 player

[fractoid]

Actually, the reason that the iPod was awesome was that (a) it had a real screen that showed more than a couple of lines of text, and (b) it had the scroll wheel touchpad interface that made it possible to rapidly select songs and fast forward / rewind. For a 64mb MP3 player, picking one of the 15 songs you could store on it could easily be done with the four buttons provided. Once you had half your mp3 collection in your pocket, navigating to that one song you wanted to hear was a complete pain in the ass. The iPod made it much, much easier.

While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to fix a semi-bricked Creative Zen Vision M? :P Mine's got some stupid charging problem, it runs OK when I plug it in but it won't charge. :/

Re:iPod not the first MP3 player

[jedidiah]

The ipod interface yields 0.0 actual benefit for a miniscule media collection.

You simply don't need anything that fancy for a 15 song collection.

For a really BIG collection, that stupid wheel pretty much necessitates the need for the screen.

A conventional changer interface is all you really need. It actually does the
job remarkably better and is a lot easier to operate when you can't look at
the device and really need to devote as little attention to it as possible.

Re:iPod not the first MP3 player

[ilmandi]

While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to fix a semi-bricked Creative Zen Vision M? :P Mine's got some stupid charging problem, it runs OK when I plug it in but it won't charge. :/

you might want to look at http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19 for your answers. I swapped the battery in my Creative Zen Touch with suggestions from that forum.

Re:LOL

[azav]

troll

yankees

[whistlingtony]

Ha!

A lack of respect for patent laws is what got America off the ground during the industrial revolution. We stole all KINDS of stuff from europe. I read somewhere that it was so bad that they were calling us "Janke", the dutch word for pirate... and that changed over to Yankee. (ah yes, it was in The Pirate's Dilemma, a really neat book that is creative commons licensed. Go read it!)

But remember kids, we need strong IP protection. progress doesn't work without it..... snicker.

-Tony

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, what? 1080p isn't possible on most CPUs with VLC? VLC runs 1080p just fine on my media center, whlie W7MC lags to hell trying to get 720p lag-free.

If I could incorporate VLC into W7MC to replace WMP, I'd be all over that.

Re:LOL

[FlyingGuy]

No need to get all gay ( not saying there is anything wrong with that ) I mean they had Megan up there, she could have done the boys a turn.

DVD vs. rocket science

[OhHellWithIt]

Is Playing a DVD Harder Than Rocket Science?

Hmmm, let's think about this. The Germans were playing with V2s in the 1940s, and the Soviets put a satellite into orbit in 1957; in 1969, NASA was still doing some calculations with slide rules. The DVD was introduced in the mid-1990s and requires some fairly serious computer technology plus a technology called light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation (LASER) which wasn't available until the 1960s.

I think playing a DVD is harder.

The Internet is for...

[PMBjornerud]

If NASA can get internet, and NASA communicates with the space station... What era is NASA living in, if the space station can't get an internet connection. The internet solves all problems, especially missing codec problems.

It's by intention. Why spend billions to send people into space when they'll do nothing but browse porn all day?

Seriously, stuck in a room for months and months on end with OUT an internet connection?!

I rest my case.

Water...water...

[Anonymous Coward]

...not a drop to drink.

They were a adrift is a sea of data bits whizzing by to satellites in orbit, but with no network connection of their own.

Perhaps, they should've tuned into the galaxy newsgroups on the ultrawave instead. Oh, wait. We're still too far down to get any signal here.

MPAA

[ossuary]

Somewhere, far down below, there was an MPAA exec cackling menacingly. Muuu-hah-hah-haaaaaaa!

Re:LOL

[Tokolosh]

NASA cannot make it to the Mos Eisley Cantina on the planet Tatooine where the crew can have a few beers and tease the imperial storm troopers

Why not?

Blue Harvest (Family Guy)

[Anonymous Coward]

It says I have to download RealPlayer 7.

RealDVD

Re:LOL

[iamhassi]

"I mean they had Megan [wikipedia.org] up there, she could have done the boys a turn."

Wow you must have a big thing for chicks in giant puffy astronaut suits because that photo on her wiki does absolutely nothing for me. Got links to a pic of her in a bikini?

Re:LOL

[roguetrick]

Pretentious.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[smoker2]

Not the C, the L - LAN.
Video Lan Client.

Re:LOL

[VGPowerlord]

NASA cannot make it to the Mos Eisley Cantina on the planet Tatooine where the crew can have a few beers and tease the imperial storm troopers

Why not?

The shuttle's hyperdrive was broken and they didn't have any droids around to fix it.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Briareos]

WTF would you put a source archive up for download if all the code is in SVN?

Just go here and click "Download GNU tarball" or simply use an SVN client to check out the release_v1_2_908_0 tag.

region code

[v1]

"We're sorry you're not authorized to play DVDs from this region code. Your region code is currently set to 'extraterrestrial' and cannot be changed again."

Too bad with the shuttle going up and down all the time they ran out of region code changes...

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[SilverJets]

Oh yeah VLC is great. What an amazing piece of software. So far it has had the ability to pixelate any movie I've attempted to watch. DVDs, AVIs, MKVs, etc. doesn't matter. Any movie is annoyingly noisy. Never, never, never experienced such a problem with WMP. In fact I can play a DVD in VLC, stare at the crappy noisy video, close VLC and then open WMP and play the DVD perfectly.

Re:LOL

[claar]

For anyone else that wants to look up this Skylab 4 (not 3) incident, Google skylab mutiny

Watch the Earth...not a movie?

[stonecutter2]

If I orbiting in space, and had a free day, I wouldn't want to stare at a laptop screen to watch a movie - I'd spend hours staring at the Earth, because I could!

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

>

NASA cannot make it to the Mos Eisley Cantina on the planet Tatooine where the crew can have a few beers and tease the imperial storm troopers (Star Wars reference).

You honestly felt that you had to explain that that was a Star Wars reference? Really?

On a different note, Slashdot has again offered up a topical quote:
  I have discovered that all human evil comes from this, man's being unable to sit still in a room. -- Blaise Pascal

television or tunnel vision?

[kbaud]

-kbaud

They dodged a bullet

[Anonymous Coward]

They dodged a bullet. I hear they were going to watch Armageddon...

Is it that boring already?

[bughunter]

Christ, is outerspace that boring already? I mean, even if I'd been up there a week, I expect I'd be grateful for a few hours to do nothing but stare out the porthole and play zero gee paper football.

Watch a DVD? Christ, that can wait until I'm back home, suffering from microgravity withdrawal.

well

[rinoid]

Obviously they were trying to play a DVD in the wrong fracking region!

Set your region codes to ... outer space?

On the other hand -- buy a mac doodz.

Doesn't surprise me

[gravis777]

This does not surprise me, especially on a government / contractor issued laptop. My experience working in various it departments is that people are so paranoid about security, that they install just the apps needed, then lock the computer down so much that the user cannot even change the wallpaper, much less install stuff like flash, update adobe reader, or install video apps. NASA would probably either have to remote in, or do a package push, which I bet is difficult over a satelite uplink

Re:Doesn't surprise me

[countach]

They're surely not dumb enough to do that to a computer in space. I mean, what if you need to do some burn calculations, and you can't get into it because of lockdown?

Next time, take your PSP

[WeeLad]

How boring are these short shuttle flights getting that they'd rather be sitting around watching DVDs. An extended ISS tour I could understand, but these shuttle flights don't happen that often and I believe it's still pretty competitive to get on board. If it were me, I'd probably spend that time floating around doing back-flips or other stuff I couldn't do on earth. Hell, if they let me take someone's spot on the next trip, I'll buy them a copy of the DVD. They can watch it all they want down here while I'm bouncing off the walls in orbit.

Re:LOL

[Uber Banker]

There are people in the world who are just boring and unimaginitive... this xkcd comic

People that appreciate/quote/use/follow xkcd... XKCD followers to XKCD are much like mud to a mud-guard.

Might be useful for the mission to Mars...

[kbaud]

This may be a minor annoyance in orbit but for a long trip to Mars it becomes more important to crew moral and reducing "cabin fever".

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

NASA cannot make it to the Mos Eisley Cantina on the planet Tatooine where the crew can have a few beers and tease the imperial storm troopers (Star Wars reference).

Star Wars, you say? Thanks for clearing that up!

Re:LOL

[TravisO]

Wow, that must look gorgeous in HD, who needs a window anyway!

Acronym Police

[Asmor]

DRM - Devil's wRong Maintenance

Holy fuck, man, if you're going to force an acronym that hard at least make it one that's good and/or makes sense. That looks like you just took one word that sounded bad and started with a D, one word that sounded bad and had an R near the front, and one word that just happened to be a noun starting with M.

Re:Acronym Police

[Techmeology]

But that's what I did!

Re:Acronym Police

[Anonymous Coward]

Ur doin it rong.

Dude, they're ASTRONAUTS.

[Chris Burke]

There are people in the world who are just boring and unimaginitive. People who aren't stupid, but just don't think of interesting things to do, and aren't interested in doing them anyway, even if someone else thinks of them and invites them along.

Apparently, the space program has become so routine that such people have found their way there. I've no idea how that's even possible (if you're that dull, what would possess you to apply for astronaut training?)

Uh-huh. Yeah, it's that these astronauts are just boring, mundane, unimaginative people.

Either that, or it's that these astronauts have spent weeks up to their necks in a combination of Awesome, Challenge, and Danger as they float around in fucking OUTER SPACE, fixing an incredible yet delicate scientific instrument that both expands our scientific horizons and blows our minds with crazy images, with their clunky suits and a tether to their space ship being the only thing keeping them alive as they work, and their office view consisting of the little blue globe they call home and the vastness of space.

These peoples' bowel movements are more amazing than anything you do here on earth, and your example of something "interesting" is an attraction at Chuck-E-Cheese?

I mean would you seriously tell an experimental jet test pilot (which many astronauts were before they decided to do something even cooler) who after flying around at supersonic speeds all day pushing both their body and mind to the limit constantly decides that when they land back at base to spend the rest of the day chilling in the rec room watching American Idol, that they're dull?

Maybe, just maybe, after two weeks of being responsible for one of the most complicated machines ever made (which in case I haven't mentioned is a fucking space ship) where every action has the potential to be a matter of life and death on the boundaries of human adaptability, "dull" has a certain appeal, you know, as a change of pace.

Here's my example of unimaginative: Someone who thinks an astronaut has to play "space-tag" to make their life exciting and interesting.

From TFA - 17,200mph

[SBrach]

What does how fast the shuttle is orbiting the planet have to do with how hard it is to update the codec. Its not like there on the top of a semi flying down the freeway at 80mph trying to get the dvd-rom drive open. I think the bigger problem is that the ethernet cable so they could get to divx.com would be a little long at their current altitude.

Priorities People!

[Anonymous Coward]

You have no idea how much it pisses me off that these folks are IN SPACE and they need to pass the time! I mean come on! I feel bad enough watching a movie if it's nice outside. This is kind of like parents zoned out on their ipods as they 'play' with their kids in the park. Priorities people! No one ever said on their death bed, "I wish I had watched a few more episodes of Friends." Kurtsweil not withstanding, we only get one chance at this life. Squeeze the most out of it! Thanks.

Re:LOL

[tomthegeek]

But this is HDTV. It's got better resolution than the real world.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

I have too been on vacation with your wife, and it WAS fun.

Re:LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that with or without the "Nudge, nudge, wink, wink"?

Expensive film

[Fifth Earth]

Some back of the napkin calculations say that to lift a 1-oz. DVD (that they can't play) into orbit on the shuttle costs about $500.

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[DigitalSorceress]

I'd watch Red Dwarf... Introduce my shipmates to "Tikka to Ride" and "backwards" in order to experiment on the effects of Coca-Cola* blown through the nose at high velocity in micro gravity.

*yes, I'm well aware that carbonated beverages are NOT on the menu due to pressure and micro gravity.

bandwidth

[GregNorc]

It's probably a bandwidth issue... VLC is 16 megs for a windows install, which is pretty big when not on broadband.

Re:LOL

[thousandinone]

Don't be so hasty. I'd personally switch teams for a day just for a chance to try it in zero G. Go ahead and troll me, haters!

No, they have immunity

[vuo]

They are NASA astronauts, and NASA is a federal government organization, and the federal government enjoys sovereign immunity. The military has actually claimed this in a few instances when reverse-engineering private DRM.

No Russians To Help

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure that on the ISS there's some russian gear with this capability. RIAA would not touch this for the same reason they don't touch the military-a place where new soldiers are asked to dump their music and movies on the communal hard drive when they come "in country". Bad Politics.

I guess the DVD player would have to cycle regions as it orbited :)

Re:LOL

[DamnStupidElf]

People that appreciate/quote/use/follow xkcd... XKCD followers to XKCD are much like mud to a mud-guard.

So people who don't read xkcd are like mud that flies into other cars' windshields? Maybe you need a more precise car analogy.

Re:LOL

[hairyfeet]

Dude,you're in space! That means that-1-you are gonna take what you can get, because you can't just have a hooker shipped up there, and -2-The fact that you are having zero G sex will make up for a hell of a lot.

Just think of it like beer goggles, zero g sex would be so damned awesome that whether she is a hottie or not really would be that big a whoop. Plus it would pretty much guarantee you would win any "who's the biggest playa" argument. The other guy would go "I screwed a cheerleader at 35,000 feet!" and you could just say "I screwed a girl floating in space like fricking Barbarella while orbiting the earth.". There is pretty much NO topping that! For that reason alone it would be worth it. Now cue the one girl that reads Slashdot chiming in about how we are pigs but hey, we're guys. we know we are pigs, we just really don't care.

vacuum

[skwang]

Operating a laptop computer in a vacuum would probably overheat the device. There is no air (or any convection medium) to cool the hardware.

In addition, outside the spacecraft in space, there is a significant amount of radiation in from the solar wind, among other sources. This would most likely disrupt the operations of the transistors in the hardware as they are not radiation hardened.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[DamnStupidElf]

Just turn on a blur/soften filter. It's probably what WMP is doing.

It is all about anal sex

[SmallFurryCreature]

Just like anal sex, it is better to do it to someone else, then to have it done to you. The Japanese liked fucking the americans up the ass with their cheap copies, but Japan was less the pleased when the korean's asked them to bend over. Korea in turn does not like it one bit that it is has both India and China aiming for its unshielded exhaust port.

Patends are crap when someone else got them, great when you got them.

Re:It is all about anal sex

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like anal sex, it is better to do it to someone else, then to have it done to you.

WRONG.

P.S. what are patends? Does this relate to anal (of which I must know)?

Re:Watching movies? Really?

[alexandre_ganso]

It may come in handy for zero-g masturbation. Stimulae helps, you know.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[hcdejong]

compatibility prioritized over...

-A good hotkey scheme

Uh? VLC's default hotkey scheme may not be the best, but it's completely configurable which earns it +1000 karma points over just about every other player I've tried.

Knoppix and others

[polyomninym]

This is why I take Knoppix and other live OS's with me everywhere. Yeah, I know, I don't go into space much, but it's sure handy here on earth.

Re:LOL

[alexandre_ganso]

It looks like they pasted her face on this pic. Anyway, what's an oceanographer doing in space?

And furthermore, from sea to shining sea

[Anonymous Coward]

While Congress has never enacted legislation formally defining the upper limit of US air space the most common administrative limit is 50 miles (80km). The USA certainly does not claim that its borders extend vertically to infinity. Space is clearly recognized by the US government as international territory.

My personal airspace extends to Infinity... AND BEYOND!!!

Enter at your own risk. Trespassers may be violated.

Re:LOL

[Anamelech]

Nubian, eh? We got lots o' dat.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Off topic at this point (somewhat, still on a close tangent to the topic at least) but for mplayer, for a long time gmplayer would be compiled (mplayer with a gui) if you enabled gtk support in the compile flags. It's deprecated now though, no longer updated. Grab mplayer SVN and smplayer though and you have IMHO the best media player gui I've ever seen and a hardware accelerated media player with 1080p support.

If you want to go a step further, update your kernel with UDF 2.5 support, install a few utils provided by doom9, and you can decode and play blu-ray discs (yes even BD+ ones)

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Spykk]

I just go for MPlayer. (which almost never fails, but has an even worse UI. Or rather, it has no UI; it's just a box with the video playing in it.

You should take a look at smplayer. It's a GUI for mplayer that makes it much more user friendly.

Re:It's not JUST the hardware stu...

[neBelcnU]

I totally agree with the parent. Just because Marketing said it had to be in there, and Engineering figgered out how to wedge in, doesn't mean that it amounts to an enhancement.

And I'm no great fan of "Designers" or Programmers/UI Experts, but when they get it right, it SINGS. And--call it a variation on "Creepy Valley"--a near miss is almost worse than not having the feature at all.

Personally, Samsung does this to me all the time: something about their UI-philosophy I don't get. Oppositely, Motorola must be built in to me somewhere. Those examples are purely my personal weaknesses, but I believe they're legit data points on the broader curve of my argument. (See also, cockpit design philosophies of Airbus v. Boeing, or Raytheon v. (everyone else) and iDrive v. the rest of the automotive informatics.)

The parent deserves to be modded up.

Re:LOL

[Zantetsuken]

Introducing "HD-Vision" Now with even more snake oil!

DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

When it becomes interesting is when they actually tweak your design a little, add a few more features that you missed. It seems to me that a totally free market like this actually drives innovation far harder than a traditional, copyright-and-patent-protected market because if the only market exclusivity your product has is the three months it takes your competitors to clone it, you'd damn well better come up with something new and _good_ in those three months to stay ahead of the curve. I would say that in 10 to 20 years' time, Chinese products will be more advanced than 'western' ones, purely due to this incredible market force.

If you got rid of copyright and patent protection, device makers would just resort to DRMing the hell out of all their products so that as soon as you cracked it open to figure out how it works, all the software is wiped clean. No more copying other peoples works. No more homebrew hacking either.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[BikeHelmet]

Uh? VLC's default hotkey scheme may not be the best, but it's completely configurable which earns it +1000 karma points over just about every other player I've tried.

Really? Since when has it been that way? I just checked, and you are correct, although it still fails because it can't assign identical hotkeys to identical tasks.

Like toggling fullscreen. Alt+Enter can't be used for both entering and exiting fullscreen.

Media Player Classic has had this feature longer, and it actually recognizes you may want to use the same key combination to toggle something. (like fullscreen mode)

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[BikeHelmet]

Very nice! Downloaded; I'll be sure to use it in the future!

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[BikeHelmet]

Edit: My bad. Latest version actually makes the jump that if no exit key is set, it lets you exit with the fullscreen key.

And ontop of that, Space pauses the video! When I first started using VLC, Space did nothing. :P

Anyway, my point about MPC having it longer still stands. ;)

Don't send DVDs to the aliens, then

[Anonymous Coward]

Say this to the aliens when eventually they spot the Pioneer disc, the Voyager gold record, the Active SETI or METI messages, or other interstellar messages we have sent using technological tools and obscure codes that even here on Terra only a few specialist scientists can decipher and understand.

Re:LOL

[darkpixel2k]

Wow you must have a big thing for chicks in giant puffy astronaut suits because that photo on her wiki does absolutely nothing for me. Got links to a pic of her in a bikini?

She's an astronaut. Do you really think she ever posed for Sports Illustrated or Playboy because she 'needed the cash'?

Hal? Is that you?

[Eil]

They were going to watch 2001: A Space Odyssey, but the equipment wouldn't let them?

Let's pray this is a coincidence.

VLC features.

[DrYak]

-Hardware acceleration
-GPU shader/codec support

VLC uses codecs from the FFMPEG library.
FFMPEG has infrastructure to support hardware acceleration.
What is actually lacked is a nice infrastructure to support it in a cross-platform, cross-hardware way.
Perhaps OpenCL will be the answer in a near future.

-Ability to use (impressive) directshow codecs

Actually that how WMV was supported under Windows (and Linux with a wine layer) until it got reverse engineered and supported in the codec libraries.
Should be doable for other unsupported format, although it beats the purpose of having a cross platform player.

Re:MPC Home Cinema VLC

[Anonymous Coward]

Fully agree with you on all points.

Re:LOL

[Tsunayoshi]

Share the fun next time ;)

(thank goodness my wife doesn't read /.)

Lawyers can wreck anything...

[twoHats]

Lawyers go through a special course called Obfuscation and Obliteration (O&O to those in the know) which teaches them to take even the simplest human task and insert so many hoops etc, that even the brightest human has no chance.

Isn't the law wonderful.