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11-Year-Old Graduates With Degree In Astrophysics
Gotenosente writes "11-Year-Old Moshe Kai Cavalin has graduated from East Los Angeles Community College with a degree in astrophysics. 'At a time when his peers are finishing 6th grade, this only child of a Taiwanese mother and an Israeli father is trying on a cap and gown preparing to graduate with a 4.0 from community college.' The article continues with a quotation by the boy, hinting at his modesty, 'I don't consider myself a genius because there are 6.5 billion people in this world and each one is smart in his or her own way.' Daniel Judge, Cavalin's statistics professor, says, 'Most students think that things should be harder than they are and they put these mental blocks in front of them and they make things harder than they should be. In the case of Moshe, he sees right through the complications.'"
Once again, I'm not trying to detract from his accomplishments but this isn't exactly as intensive as a four year bachelor's of science.
I was looking for a course plan from that college but could not find one for astrophysics
Leaves a bit to be desired. Is it possible to "get" a degree in physics (let alone a special area of physics) with the most advanced course being "Optics and Modern Physics?" I think in my undergrad we touched on relativity in required physics courses with several advanced courses devoted entirely to it and its special forms.
My work here is dung.
There is one thing this boy wonder does not like.
"I feel it's a waste of time playing video games, I feel its a waste of time and it's not helping humanity in any way."
And GamePolitics' Andrew Eisen notes:
Perhaps a rather odd statement coming from a lad whose passions include martial arts, scuba diving and playing piano. He also aspires to be a movie actor.
I found that amusing that he finds some form of entertainment to (music & movies) to benefit humanity more so than games. I wonder if he's ever played Settlers of Catan?
My work here is dung.
Its not rocket science after all
I thought genius was defined as something like an IQ in the 98th percentile or higher.
By the way, most preteens don't have the emotional maturity to succeed in a "normal" college social environment. I'm not saying they can't succeed academically, it's just unlikely they will "fit in" in most college social organizations. We all need to be with our social peers.
Community college is a bit different as there's less of a social environment. On-line school is also a huge opportunity for "non-traditional" students such as those too young to drive or old enough to not be carded.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Think you're smart, kid? Well, I can still kick your ass at teatherball. (I hope.)
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
"I don't consider myself a genius because there are 6.5 billion people in this world and each one is smart in his or her own way."
Clearly he has never read Youtube comments.
"At a time when his peers are finishing 6th grade, this only child of a Taiwanese mother and an Israeli father is trying on a cap and gown preparing to graduate with a 4.0 from community college." The article continues with a quotation by the boy, hinting at his modesty, "I don't consider myself a genius because there are 6.5 billion people in this world and each one is smart in his or her own way and it is, after all, only community college."
Fixed that for him.
Vincent J. Murphy
Spandex Justice
NERD!
"I don't consider myself a genius because there are 6.5 billion people in this world and each one is smart in his or her own way."
Not only smart, but insightful too :)
Life is not for the lazy.
I like to study just because knowledge goes to wisdom and only by wisdom can we help the world
Wow, what a kid. All the best to him.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Big time! Nothing makes a young lad more popular with the ladies than a degree in Astrophysics from a community college.
Hey ladies, my love is like T^2 = (4 pi^2 a^3)/(G (m_1+m_2))
...I copied the equation from Wolfram|Alpha...I'm smart like the kid said...at searching search engines.
I got laid at the age of 14. I doubt anyone with a degree in astrophysics is going to beat that.
Genius is 130+, retarded is -70, and average is 100.
Brilliant little kid, I must say. And I am very glad that he is given the recognition he deserves.
However, I'd like to point out that every time we see an extraordinary case like his, there are countless other examples that are half way there. What I mean is that why do only the "super-genius" kids get to advance faster in schools and colleges? What about those people that are smart and dedicated enough to pass through say high-school in 1-2 years, rather than the usual 5-6. Instead these people are forced to stay 5-6 years doing highschool. Same thing with college.
Not everyone is meant to fit into the average of society. That is why we allow people to repeat grade levels and university subjects. So why not go the other way and allow above average students, or students with above average dedication to finish faster. Sounds like a double standard to me.
Tag this story communitycollege.
Great, more kids that are smarter than I am.
it's just unlikely they will "fit in" in most college social organizations
Speaking as someone who was in the same situation, but kept in regular school, it's just as unlikely that he'll "fit in" in the regular school system.
We all need to be with our social peers.
And what if you don't have any social peers? In regular school, at best he'll be ostracized and bored. At worst he'll be bullied and bored.
Hum, being so precocious, he is probably very intelligent. Why then go to community college? I am not entirely familiar with US education system, but I was under the impression that these places were considered much less challenging.
\u262D = \u5350
If I was too young to buy booze and be interested in chicks I probably could have got an A+ too. Show off....
Ask anyone who has done something like this (myself included, but not to that extreme), and, 5-10 years down the line, they'll tell you that their parents should never have had them do it. School isn't entirely there to learn what's in the classes, it's also training you socially. Anything that desynchronizes you from the social skills you're supposed to be learning at any given age is a long run detriment, because social skills build just like math and science. And the 'real world' is a lot more dependent on social factors than most people this website wants to believe.
And around here you can't even get higher than 5.
I thought genius was defined as something like an IQ in the 98th percentile or higher.
Not. I did a hard course at an elite university. I have no trouble believing we were all in the top 2%. But we weren't freaking geniuses.
I guess he was reading /. when he was 3 weeks old, just like I am doing.
What kind of community college offers astrophysics? Hell, my four-year university doesn't even offer it!
I think as we grow more aware of the extraordinary talents and focuses of those that are on the autism spectrum, we will see more of these fast-track through college kids. People with autism spectrum disorders tend to develop intellectually much faster, but when it comes to dealing with the real world, are usually way behind their peers. One big clue is that he sees no purpose to games. The unpredictability is probably overwhelming to him at this point in his development. If he has motor-coordination issues, that could also make him dislike sports.
So, we'll come to accept people like this for who they are, give them an outlet for their early intellectual development, and also provide a society that supports the fact that emotionally they may be far behind their peers. That sounds like a much better world than one that treats ASD's as a disease or freakshow. While is IQ may qualify as genius, I hope his parents realize that he may very well be disabled in other areas of functioning, and give him the proper support. Too often, people like this feel enormous pressure, and get no support for their weaknesses.
Hybrid vigor.
You you know what that is... you'll agree with me.
I will bet dollars to doughnuts he was spoonfed that corny line by his parents from the age of 2.
Sorry this is off-topic but this makes me boil:
Saying "I'm not a genius because there are 6.5 billion people" is not humility, it's selflessness. He's 11, I don't blame him, but why does the article extol this as some kind of virtue. There's nothing virtuous in making deliberately biased assessments against oneself. Humility is about objectively acknowledging fallibility. Saying "Indeed I am very precocious and I do qualify as a "child prodigy", however, you should refrain from drawing too much conclusions as many geniuses were late bloomers, etc". That's humility. Self-dissing isn't.
\u262D = \u5350
or to take away from an 11yr old's accomplishments...
but is a Community College seriously giving out degrees in astrophysics?
What other certificate course do they have? a 12 month Doctorate in Rocketry Science?
Perhaps a 6 month Masters in Physiology with a special emphasis in Cardiology.
You can even double major in Small Engine Repair, and this week we have specials if you combo with Massage Therapy or Hair Design.
Anyway joking aside I am sure it was a wonderful experience for him, and I would guess the parents have a large role here in motivating him, likely by promoting the idea of education and learning as both desirable and fun. Genius or no, he is probably a smart kid who is likely mature for his years.
Kai Cavalin has graduated from East Los Angeles Community College
I'm sure he's more brilliant than I'll ever to close to, but wouldn't it have made sense to go to a real university if he's that smart?
Here's some Doogie Howser music, if you miss the intro, like I do (for some bizarre reason) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3qt3k_alternate-doogie-howser-md-tv-intro_fun
If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
com'on now, dont you get 30 points automaticlly for writting your name? Maybe an extra 10 if you spell it correctly....
Our social peers? Allow me to laugh derisively. Ha. Ha. Ha.
Being different in school SUCKS ASS. At least in college people are sufficiently grown up to not be assholes 100 percent of the time.
Social peers is all to often a nice waying of saying "hang out with the half wits". There is a lot of value being put on "functioning well in groups" that for certain people mean they get to learn that they really don't want to be part of any group that they haven't selected for themselves.
I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it -- Groucho Marx
Daniel Judge, Cavalin's statistics professor says, "Most students think that things should be harder than they are and they put these mental blocks in front of them and they make things harder than they should be.
I've heard it before. It's not the teacher's inability to teach, but it is the student's fault. The "Fear of Math" syndrome. People need to wake up to the reality that success is largely based on environment. If people, for example, don't have access to astro-physics books, then they are unlikely to be astrophysicists. And educational attainment has more to do with one's parents and up-bringing than with one's own inherent intellectual ability.
I'd be more impressed if this child didn't have access to books and preferential treatment from parents and teachers and succeeded on his own to become an astrophysicist. I would also prefer to see professor Daniel Judge fired from his job for his inability to teach students.
It's really impressive to see a child prodigy, but do they go on to achieve more in life than the "average" smart crowd that goes through a more normal progression?
from China.
The option to advance faster is available, but recommended against. School isn't just about mental development, it is social development as well, and that is something that seems to be harder to accelerate.
When I was going in to first grade, my parents were offered the option to skip me ahead a grade. Whatever test it was I took showed I was far enough ahead to skip a grade. Apparently it actually showed I was far enough ahead to skip more than one, but one was all they offered. However my mom (a teacher) decided against it for social reasons.
I'm glad she did. I'm sure I would have done fine academically, school was never all that great a challenge for me. I probably could have skipped grades a few times and graduated at a young age... but to what end? I had enough trouble with socialization, as many geeks do, that wouldn't have helped at all. Especially since one valuable lesson I learned in school is yes, maybe you are smarter than many people, but that doesn't make you better than them. Don't look down at someone just because they aren't as smart as you.
Also, what do you do if you graduate early? University would suck. You'd be practically the only non-adult there. Just loaf around the house for a few years? That's not a good idea.
So really I think it makes sense to keep kids in school until a regular graduation time. Instead, just offer opportunities to learn more. My school was pretty good about there. There was advanced placement classes in some subjects, plenty of extra curricular activities and so on. I think that's a much better idea than trying to rush through school and then be a minor, yet be expected to enter the real world. The growing up part is important too. No need to rush it. You've got lots and lots of time to be an adult.
As for university, I dunno about where you went but where I went you could complete it as fast as you could handle. You can CLEP a lot of stuff, and with a dean's permission take as many units as would fit in your schedule. Completing a degree in 2 years would be an amazing amount of work, but perfectly doable if you could handle the load.
Am I the only one who thought "that's a Sheldon Cooper right there" when he read that article?
How much are you willing to bet that he just said that for the reporters (or was told to say that BY the reporters)? If I were 11, I would be bragging away. Also, 1st comment is right - he rushed through on an easy degree. He should come back when he gets his doctorate - that's the real test. Just as an anecdote - I could have been taking university courses at 15 or 16 (virtually anyone with a grade 9-level education can, since the rest is basically rehashing and enhancing on whatever is already learned), but many universities simply do not allow minors to enroll, whether they have a high school diploma or not. It's likely there was an exception made for him, and he was also likely homeschooled (unless he got his HS diploma by age 9). This is similar to the 9-year-old judge and all 'prodigies'. Many of them, especially ones in objective fields deserve their degrees, but you wonder sometimes about whether connections made more of a difference in trailblazing a path for his future.
Yet Another Tech Blog
(but so much more, including game and movie reviews)
http://yanteb.peasantoid.org
You see this happen all the time they push kids who are really smart so hard they fizzle out. I went to a special school for "gifted" children and most of my friends were burned out by their mid 20's. Not to mention depressed because they didn't make their first million by the age of 25. I "gave up" dropped contact with all my smart friends and got a "civil service" job. Ignorance truly is bliss, if your not freaked out by the state of the world you probably don't understand what is going on. The world doesn't know what to do with gifted people and gifted people are sideswiped by the fact that even though logically and by all reason they should succeed they don't. The world just doesn't work that way.
"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
Albert:
Tried to gain admittance to college several times.
It took over a dozen papers (including the photon concept) for him to gain admittance to college.
He intensely disliked rote learning, clashing with instructors and administrators over it.
Had a reputation to goof off (He was actually having some lovely brainstorms, one storm on space-time coming to him as he was riding a bus.)
Was a ladies man (They really wigged out when he broke out his violin).
The kid had better get used to failure; poor Albert was rife with it throughout his life.
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
extra 15 if you write down your feelings
Social peers is all to often a nice waying of saying "hang out with the half wits"
It is a nice way of saying hang out with the half wits. But the thing you're missing is, often the alternative is "hang out with the half wits who are sensitive about it and also outweigh you by a large margin".
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
I believe MENSA requires an IQ of 160 or higher.
Of course, IQ tests are retarded - the younger you are the higher your score, for the same performance.
This is why you get a lot of stories about "genius" kids and toddlers, when in fact, they're just above-average with parents who got them tested.
Genius is 130+, retarded is -70, and average is 100.
I always thought genius was defined as 140+. Hot Damn, I just became a genius! Call out to all the Mensa chicks: New [int]elligible bachelor!
Checked the school, no astrophysics.
The article is peppered with some glaring political agendas to boot.
I am also curious how a 4 year college would let a kid this smart end up in a community college.
There is too much to this that lacks reason.
Something smells...
-=[ Who Is John Galt? ]=-
I am not sure why this is newsworthy. When I was a freshman in college, one of the kids on our floor was a 14 year old starting his PHd in Computer Science. He already had his bachelors from UC Berkeley. He fit in ok, and we properly corrupted him, and he had his PHd by 17. I know other kids who did similar things. The academic work is not THAT difficult for lots of younger kids. Socially it is a bit harder, but many of the kids who decide to go to college do so not just because they are academically ready, but because they have trouble fitting in with kids their own age. Hell, I took many college courses while I was in middle and high school. We even talked about skipping grades, but I liked the social and athletic aspects of middle and highschool too much. Sure, the work was easy... which gave me more time to mess around and be a kid. For these kids, they clearly do not enjoy the social experience of highschool, so they skip it. It isn't like the kid is some sort of mad genius.
Nah! He ain't a genius.
Most kids coming through the US education system are idiots. Not their fault, the idiot teachers are turning them into idiots. They are not allowed to think for themselves and must parrot back the poltically correct drivel that is hammered into them.
I guess this kid managed to escape his teacher's clutches.
com'on now, dont you get 30 points automaticlly for writting your name? Maybe an extra 10 if you spell it correctly....
"your name". "it".
Ha! 40 points, bitches!
Bow-ties are cool.
Oh yea... Well I bet he hasn't been laid. ...
Oh wait neither have I. fuck!
com'on now, dont you get 30 points automaticlly for writting your name? Maybe an extra 10 if you spell it correctly....
I got ZERRO pointz for splelling!
I was ROBED!
So she says, "Uh-uh, You don't have a challenge, you need a challenge." So now I'm challenged, all right- I'm challenged to hold on to my lunch money because of all the big mooses who wanna pound me, 'cause they think I'm a shrimpy dork who thinks he's smarter than them! But I don't think I'm smarter, I just do the stupid homework! If everyone else JUST DID THE STUPID HOMEWORK, they could [get a degree in astrophysics] and get pounded, too! Is there anymore coffee?
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
-1 is retarded
... and his cohorts will still get a job before him.
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
Ahem...
Oh, trust me, they find a way. His quote about waiting two years set off a flag in my mind since 13 is the youngest that they'll consider someone for this program.
And how do I know? A good deal of my classes have at least one student from this program and I've been friends with a few since I started.
They do in fact have a good program to support the 'fitting in' part of the social aspects of the university culture, and luckily I've only meet the socially competent ones.
Now why am I not bothered by them? Because there's a plague known as the visual and performing arts.
The other ones are alright, but the ones belonging to dance and theater are HIGHLY disliked by the general school population.
Different IQ tests have different curves. For some, the top 2% is 140, for others 150. All have 100 as average. I'm not sure what the numbers are for the "legal IQ" used to determine mental retardation for death-penalty cases.
As far as age bias goes, that's supposed to end at or before age 18 - a 20-, 30-, 40-, 50-, and 100-year old with the same answers on the same test should have the same IQ. A 10 year old with those same answers would score much higher, and a 5-year-old higher still.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
this only child of a Taiwanese mother and an Israeli father
So, what do you call this kid? A "kink" or a "chike"?
"I don't consider myself a genius because there are 6.5 billion people in this world and each one is smart in his or her own way."
Don't worry about that. As the Georgia Guidestones indicate, the world's population will soon be reduced to 500 million.
1+1=2. The fundamental theorem of calculus. The law of sines. Yeah, we got the ideological bias of classical mathematics hammered into us. If we tried to argue that we were using a totally different system of math, we were taught to "just do it the right way for the test" but the good math teachers quietly encouraged us to keep studying the other maths on the q.t. The best ones even helped us, all on the sly of course.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
> "I don't consider myself a genius because there are 6.5 billion people in this world and each one is smart in his or her own way." /. poster usually does :P
heh but I think the avg
Good luck finding a job in this economy. He better find something special to bring to the table just to get noticed...
Read up on John Von Neumann.
At six years old, he memorized pages out of phone books faster than most people could read them as a party trick. As an adult, he invented modern computer memory architecture, made foundational advances in quantum mechanics, invented the entire field of game theory, and helped work on the nuclear bomb.
No, no. You're assuming he actually means it. More likely is the possibility that when he says "I'm not a genius because there are 6.5 billion people with unique gifts" he knows it isn't true, but is a good way to keep the other 11-year-olds from kicking his smart ass.
If "success" is what other people tell you it is, you may fail or even fail to try.
If "success" is what you tell yourself it is, you will try and your odds of success are a lot higher.
For me, success is leaving humanity better than I found it. So far, so good.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The world population is closer to 6.8 billion (US Census Bureau) and still increasing. I wonder if he used the same kind of sloppy approximation when reporting his GPA.
I find Jaime Escalante's achievements far more inspiring as far as LA students go.
No, just the top 2% but they do say that tests vary. IIRC an intelligence test should be tailored to the range that you are expecting the candidate to score in, they must be able to get wrong answers because all questions correct only indicates the test was too easy.
Also, intelligence of young persons varies as they mature, this boy is nowhere near finished with his development and could be a hard pushed early starter or a true star in the making. Its not really possible to know at this stage and there is plenty of time to fall by the wayside..
This is derailing the thread, but I'm sorry this happened to you.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
One of his primary interests is "wormholes," a hypothetical scientific phenomenon connected to Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. It has been theorized that if such holes do exist in space, they could â" in tandem with black holes â" allow for the kind of space-age time travel seen in science fiction.
"space-age time travel"?
"Just like black holes, they suck in particulate objects, and also like black holes, they also travel at escape velocity, which is, the speed to get out of there is faster than the speed of light," Cavalin says. "I'd like to prove that wormholes are really there and prove all the theories are correct."
"they also travel at escape velocity"?
Actually, though, we pick on him - about it being a community college, about his hokey "everyone is smart in their own way" line, etc. - but it does sound like he's a pretty smart kid, who's hopefully developing the kind of attitude which will help him avoid turning into a condescending prick later on.
His attitude about video games - from a practical standpoint he's exactly right. Video games are a major time-sink. If you're someone who wants to achieve things, that kind of time-sink can be a real problem. Honestly I feel like it'll become something of a dilemma for me, especially once I have kids. I really enjoy games, but I don't want them to be how I spend all my time... And likewise, I wouldn't particularly want to deprive my little ones of the joys of gaming - but I don't want them to fall into it like a trap, either. There's so much a person can do when they're young - I wouldn't want them to waste that time the way I generally did.
Bow-ties are cool.
And that's a good thing. Because if so, he really believes that.
But how well does he command the other kids in Battle School?
BTW, that makes me wish I hadn't settled for the AA in Thermonuclear Warfare program.
Yeah, but it's -10 points for misspelling automatically when there's a spell-check function in the browser...
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
Pretty cool. Although if I may play devil's advocate for a minute...
I live in L.A. and I've seen the community colleges here. This isn't so much an accomplishment for the child as it is a condemning of ELAC. ELAC's a joke, even by the poor standards set by the other community colleges in L.A. If you've ever been in one of those classrooms you'll see what I mean... There are potatoes smarter than the average L.A community college student.
It's definately flamebait. Well done flamebait though.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Moshe Kai Cavalin also has a 4 digit /. account.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
of public school failure. I have a BS in both chemistry and mathematics, minored in physics. Have a PhD in Physical Chemistry ,Theory. A successful career in research. I almost didn't graduate high school- failed most of my math, failed physics and chemistry. Ended with less than a 2.0 in my core classes, and had to petitioned to graduate. It's hard for me to say exactly why. That was 20 years ago, and my memory is a bit foggy. Luckily, my state university admitted me based on promising entrance exam scores. Mom and Dad didn't go to college, so they weren't really in a good position to line me out for it. I wasn't invited to my high school's prep sessions for the college entrance exams. I think they assumed I wouldn't be interested. I have always been into science type stuff. I read Einstein's primer on special relativity in high school. Loved pop science stuff - Brief History of Time, anything by Sagan, and so forth. Somehow none of my high school teachers were able to capitalize on it. Maybe it was because they didn't have much going on, themselves. I remember my high school physics teacher commenting that he went into education because he couldn't quite make the general physics curriculum. This was in the context of explaining just how hard quantum mechanics was, and that nobody really understood it. Well, I understand it, and use it frequently. It's fun for me to think about because it's so weird. It would have been nice if the special, advanced classes I had in grade school had a counterpart in my high school. Wonder where I would be now.
46 & 2
I don't think there's a well-established standard for characterizing genius. It's just a subjective word, like tall. If someone says someone is tall, you don't say, no, he's not tall. He's 6'4" and the definition of tall is 6'6" or higher.
The biggest problem with being held back when you excel academically in order to encourage social development will often result in a gifted child who desires to learn more to become bored and jaded with curriculum that they have already mastered while their classmates are still struggling with the same concepts. This is what happened to me in Junior High and affected me through High school as well. While I was operating on an intellectual level much in advance of my peers, I spent most of my time making problems because I was bored, and fell into a cycle of passive-aggressive rebellion by refusing to do the busy work for the material I had already mastered. Funny enough, in my senior year, I actually had a couple of teachers go to bat for me with the administration when they refused to allow me to graduate because the teachers for my Chemistry II and Calculus classes refused to give my final grades because I refused to do their busy work in their classes, even though I not only aced all the tests they had given throughout the year, but i had passed both the AP Chemistry and AP Calculus exams with a 5 out of 5. It wasn't until I entered college and discovered an environment that was much more amenable to allowing me to advance as quickly as my ability would allow that I put aside the shenanigans and allowed myself to take flight.
While holding a child back academically so they can mature socially may seem like a wise move, it all depends on the child. For me, it was the wrong decision, as I never had a problem socializing, whether it was my age-peers or the adults I encountered in my life. Sure, I had a large vocabulary when I was a child, and I tended to use longer, more complex sentences, but I could play soccer, football and baseball just like any other boy on my block, and I certainly had no problems getting the girls, especially when in High School I had developed this rebellious persona. But when I consider where I may have been in my field of study with an additional 10 years under my belt...if my son (who is now 2 years old) exhibits the same qualities, I won't hesitate in allowing him to excel to the highest level of his ability. In fact, if he shows the same aptitude that I did, then I will make the path as clear as possible for him to move as quickly academically as he desires. But, truth to tell, I will be just as happy if he doesn't show the same aptitude, as long as he is stretching himself to his full potential.
MENSA requires an IQ in the top 2%. I am a member, and trust me, that does not make a genius. A true "genius" would probably be in the Triple Nine club (99.9 percentile). But many people in either of these, are as regular as you and I, as dumb as your neighbor that never picks up his garbage cans, or as crazy as the cat lady down the street. Intelligence has pretty much zero affect on a person's successes or happiness. In fact I made a chart about it. I make a lot of charts.
No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
This story should be tagged 'Child-Abuse'.
Namgge
is a second degree in maths and he's well on his way to waiting at the dole queue on monday.
-subtraho
there are exactly zero community colleges that have accredited astrophysics programs. they simply don't have the funding, equipment, or facilities to carry out the experiments and other "hands-on" curriculum.
what's really interesting about this post:
PHYSICS 001 Mechanics of Solids
PHYSICS 002 Mechanics of Fluids, Heat and Sound
PHYSICS 003 Electricity and Magnetism
PHYSICS 004 Optics and Modern Physics
PHYSICS 006 General Physics I
PHYSICS 007 General Physics II
PHYSICS 011 Introductory Physics
PHYSICS 021 General Physics I with Calculus
PHYSICS 022 General Physics II with Calculus
is that all the course numbers start with 0. This is usually a sign of either a) remedial courses or b) non-accredited programs.
I understand that graduating with any sort of college degree at the age of 11 is very impressive, but this is simply NOT a degree in astrophysics, and doesn't really even approach it. Another dead give away that this is a totally bogus degree is that it's an Associates Degree of Liberal Arts. Physics, in any form, is NOT a liberal art. Being that it's not, at the very least, an Associates Degree of Science (which is still pretty shady for "astrophysics" since it's VERY theoretical) raises a huge red flag. I would be very surprised to find that even half of the credits for the courses he took are accepted at any 4 year university offering a Bachelor's of Science in Physics.
You should probably have left eligibility as a boolean; casting to int might imply something illegal.
"there are 6.5 billion people in this world"
The real number is much closer to 7 billion by now.
Is this the kind of idiot we're handing out degrees to these days?
-- Boycott Shell
You should probably have left eligibility as a boolean; casting to int might imply something illegal.
Not in Utah!
Those two paragraphs made me wince. The second paragraph in particular makes me wonder about what kind of "astrophysics" degree this kid even earned, especially considering the list of available courses someone posted earlier. Where is the class in QM that would provide framework to understand the theoretical underpinnings of an EPR bridge, which judging by his statement, he does not posses. Furthermore, as far as I am aware, most 4 year schools do not offer degrees in "astrophysics" anyway, one would major in physics or astronomy and then go to a PhD program for astrophysics, so the idea of a 2 year AA degree in astrophysics is kind of laughable.
Just a thought, but you might want to actually cast to uint instead....
My blog
Didn't your mother ever teach you to not use a $20 word where a $5 word will do? ;)
Nonsense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with improving the vocabulary of preliterate Slashdot readers, and the practice should be actively encouraged.
We see far too much of the "This is Spot. See Spot run." type of narrative in most text these days (actively encouraged by MBAs with an excessive tendency towards Powerpointisation and the attention span of a flea), and there is no reason to apologise for enriching others' lives with interesting language.
In fact, I would suggest that it would be beneficial to everybody to spend at least an hour or so every so often reading some really great poetry (John Donne comes uppermost in my mind, but whatever rocks one's boat). And no, I don't mean as part of any school curriculum (unless you want to): if it isn't done for "fun", there is absolutely no point in it.
Why do you gotta be a dick? Do you get to choose who is around you at all times? Probably not. Knowing how to interact with other people is not a useless skill.
All those "half wits" may not have the scientific and technical knowledge you have, but at least they aren't assholes. Everyone has specialized and does something much better than you can I'm sure. If I want to have a thoughtful political or scientific discussion, a Slashdot member would be great for that. If I wanted a crew mate on a fishing boat? Someone to help build a house? Someone to help me realize that I spend way too much time on the computer and that there's a shitload more shit to do before I die? I'd rather take a "half wit" than you!
But its not true - there are some people who, by their own choices and actions, are genuinely worthless.
Learn about Photography Basics.
Was it a nice robe? :)
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
I think it just proves how messed up our schools are. I remember a lot of bright kids growing up trying to ask complex things and teachers just telling them to go sit in the corner and have a cookie. Young kids are sponges who should be encouraged
Funny if his name was Sheldon Cooper
And yet, the GP gets modded up.
He ended his post with "How typical." You know what's not typical nowadays? Modesty, honesty, and respect.
You know what is typical? Going on talk radio, FOX News, Slashdot, or another Internet forum and screaming your head off about "Political Correctness."
Not to knock this kid's accomplishments. I took a summer class years ago as an undergrad at my local community college in FL. Our instructor for an Am History class was also a 6th grade teacher. Her class was probably the worst higher education course I have taken in my life. She treated us like 6th graders, she had us read from a text book, and she had us memorize questions and answers for multiple choice tests. This was a huge departure from what I was accustomed to. It was a missed opportunity to really debate historical events and explore the nuances of past conflicts. The content was not difficult and was completely accessible to a 6th grader. I could, however, imagine a 6th grader struggling with completing assignments on time, etc. A diligent parent or a dedicated learner could have definitely licked that class.
Are the things taught in college really that difficult or do they just require maturity to be able to meet the requirements of the class?
There are apparently different IQ tests, and the raw scores can't really be compared - the percentile you fall in is more important than the raw score: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International
I believe MENSA requires an IQ of 160 or higher. Of course, IQ tests are retarded - the younger you are the higher your score, for the same performance.
This is why you get a lot of stories about "genius" kids and toddlers, when in fact, they're just above-average with parents who got them tested.
I wouldn't join MENSA, I know too many idiots there.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
It's a trial program for cutting costs. Handing out PhD's to 11 year olds will let California get rid of all those expensive underperforming middle schools and high schools.
No, that's on the SATs. IQ tests are different.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
he managed to accomplish that before discovering masturbation.
...
Or girls (in case someone outside the slashdot community reads this...)
Doogie Hawking
It's also an incredibly shallow triumph of an Olympic grade platitudinous pandering politically correct aphorism. The kid's teacher says he can "see right through the complications," but he's still been brainwashed into thinking that he's not unusual. What a shame. And how typical.
There is something profoundly true about what he said - it cuts to the inherent vulnerability of the human condition, and shows extraordinary social intelligence. Perhaps he can see through more complications than you give him credit for.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Turns out, I'm "related" to Michael Kearney, indirectly through two marriages. My parents have met him.
(And my hair dresser's roommate's grandmother's bingo partner's boyfriend once sat next to Steve Jobs in an airport during a layover. That makes me special too.)
That was hilarious. I apologize for not having mod points. I'm so, so sorry. hahaha.
shows extraordinary social intelligence
Which means what, exactly? That he's a quick study when it comes to what seems to go over well among the adults in his academic life? That he's acutely aware of which platitudes will be received with smiles, and cause little friction? Yes, that's handy. But it's also a fundamental part of what holds so many average kids back from being excellent in anything. When all they hear from kids who should be role models is that they are already just as smart as the junior astrophysicist, then what's the point of getting to the bottom of the work ethic, discipline, and drive of such a student, and emulating it? No need! We're all already just as smart as him, in our own way! OMG!Let's go fire up WoW!
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Maybe they mean he wants to go to college for astrophysics.
He's graduating from a community college. Which usually means a 2-yr degree. I do not believe you can get an astrophysics degree in a 2-yr program from a community college. Also, most would argue that an associates is not really what people mean by a college degree.
I have an Associates in Computer Science. But I think few would accept me claiming to be a college graduate. It's like dropping out in the 10th grade and claiming you graduated high school.
I am not trying to knock the kids achievements. Just think the story is misleading and premature. Come back to me in 2 yrs when he graduates with a BS degree.
you should have disrobed.
And when he finally comes around to the reality of the world - that there ARE worthless, stupid people - he will be just as disillusioned as the person who was told that they were indeed special, unique, and superior when they find out that it's not so.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Videogames? They're a waste of time! They don't help humanity in any way, shape, or fashion. Not me, I'm a big kid, I don't sit on my duff while distracting myself with pretty, distracting stimuli while other people are out there fighting cancer or developing technologies that make peoples' lives better!
Now excuse me while I play Mozart on my piano and win another karate trophy.
Either the kid is parroting, or he's plain smart. He doesn't see himself as entitled to imposing his ego or style on others (narcissim). He knows that people will compare themselves to him (social comparison theory), and that that's a delicate situation for others. He doesn't want to make other's feel inferior (interpersonal circumplex). It's not someone else's /fault/ that they don't have your gifts. By treating this matter delicately, he can inspire others - bring out their best.
He might just be repeating a platitude, or he might understand something that we should all understand.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
to quote Chris Rock, "community college is like a disco with books!"
You see this way too often from over zealous parents. I took a ton of community college courses while in high school (in the mornings) from the best ranked community college in California and let me tell you, the standards and depth of material as well as overall peer competition is so low that I am absolutely certain I could have graduated from a community college in 11 with a C or B- average. This kid is definitely extremely bright to manage a perfect GPA even in "East Los Angeles Community College" and to know what he wants to do so early, and not want to be a ...neurosurgeon unlike all those National Spelling Bee champions.
Basically, the scheme is this
1)Bug teachers like crazy until they relent and let your kid take some easy standardized test to skip 2-3 grades in the period of 60 minutes.
2)Bug some poor, no-name community college administrator like crazy (hours on the phone, personal meetings) until they let your kid start taking a few classes.
3)Once your kid actually passes those classes, bug the administrator some more until he decides to let your kid enroll full time.
4)After your kid graduate from community college, tell local media who loves this kind of sensation stories, and also tell local media your kid is the next einstein with plans to save the world from AIDS, the energy crisis, and Microsoft (okay, that's a joke).
5)Use the media frenzy as bargaining chip for elite private (Ivy league) colleges who loves to have media attention and national spot light and are more than willing to accomodate this little genius to promote themselves all over the country ("we enroll geniuses: future astrophysicists AND brain surgeons!!!") ...
10)New houses for son and parents.
Of course, between steps 1-5, I'm not sure the kid gets much input except in terms of what color laptop he'll get for college. These parents here are at least considerate in not forcing their kid to be another brain surgeon. For the Chinese mother, I congratulate her for letting her mathematically-gifted son to pursue a field which actually uses math.
"I don't consider myself a genius because there are 6.5 billion people in this world and each one is smart in his or her own way."
The guys driving around me on the freeway today are not geniuses. Not everyone is smart. Deal with it and stop flattering the crowd.
Futurist Traditionalism
Mouthfuls.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srinivasa_Ramanujan
Really, that made your blood boil? A kid who's smart enough to be diplomatic about his talents?
Incidentally, I agree with him. I am pretty well-regarded in my field, but I've yet to meet any single adult who was dumber than I am about absolutely everything. People have their talents, their brains absorb the input those brains are given, and they derive a certain expertise about those things. He's good at astrophysics, I bet he sucks at raising a baby.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
There's not much to go on to really get an idea about the kid as a person. No way to really tell if he's well-rounded or not. In my experience though, with the few of his comments that *are* quoted in TFA I'd have to say he's probably a stuck-up condescending jackass. Hopefully that's not true, and like I said there's not much to go on.
Looking at the comment (paraphrased) "I don't consider myself to be exceptionally smart because there's 6.5 billion people in the world, and they're all smart!... in their own way". Obviously we can't see his face when he said that, or hear his tone, but that statement is just dripping with condescension. People who make that comment usually make it because they believe they're so much better than "those other people" that those other people will never realize just how untrue it actually is, so they can get away with it. The interesting part about it is what he said actually is more or less true. (Perfect example is Bill Watterson. Totally sucked at math and science, but possibly the most brilliant comic strip writer ever.) I honestly hope I'm wrong, and that he actually believes what he said.
But then there's his comment about video games. Do I really need to say more?
What it really boils down to is the kid enjoys studying. Video games aren't fun for him. I'd guess most social activities really aren't either. He did what he enjoyed, pure and simple. He's just lucky that what he enjoys also happens to be things that will prove more beneficial down the road than the things most kids enjoy.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
The more I read about humans, the more I think the cat lady has a point. (I'm in the top 2%, but I doubt many Slashdotters would consider me a genius. A fruitcake, perhaps...)
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
What an insufferable little snotnose!
With a "made up" associates degree from a questionable institution. You wonder if his educational needs are really being met or if his "stage parents" are just using him for gratuitous ego stroking.
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
By the way, most preteens don't have the emotional maturity to succeed in a "normal" college social environment.
So? Most preteens don't have the emotional maturity to succeed in middle school, yet that's where he'd be if he followed the traditional schedule. And for someone so far ahead of his "peers" to go to such a school would pretty much guarantee that he won't fit in. From my personal experiences, I'd say he has the same or even better chance of social success in jr. college vs. jr. high.
Learn to love Alaska
I read your comment over and over, and I honestly don't understand what your point is. Could you clarify?
to all these child prodigies
i'm certain a few become millionaires or well respected academics. but i wonder how many wind up heroin addicts or working in food service. for every wolfram or yo yo ma or tiger woods there are a whole host of burn outs
you always hear about these stellar rises, then... nothing
you burden these kids with humongous egos and humongous expectations, its really more of a handicap than a gift
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
East Los Angeles Community College astrophysics curriculum easy enough for an 11 year old to complete.
He probably is a smart kid, but I think that this story says more about the (apparent) sad state of the East Los Angeles Community College than it says good about this 11 year old.
"But why can't he be an evil genius? The world needs more evil geniuses so that we can get more super heroes."
He'll get there, just be patient. This is someone who has yet to hit puberty, but every one of his peers will easily be 2-4x his age. That makes it kind of tricky to get laid when you have no one to gain experience with accessible to help sort out all those awkward emotions... particularly the stuff you can't just explain in words alone.
This kid will probably become something like that "Syndrome" guy from "The Incredibles", only fueled by sexual ambiguity and frustration.
Even if this kid is smart enough to decide not to skip out on playtime with kids his own age, he'll still be seen as a freak for being "different".
8==8 Bones 8==8
I co-taught a 1 credit college course in 6th grade in robotics. It only happened because the right administrator spotted me; other than that, I was held down or ignored the whole time in the school system.
Plenty of mental blocks were placed as well... still have some of them. I had a normal progression and I still didn't fit in with my peers so it wouldn't have made a difference if I was in a system that allowed such things. I was encouraged to do more normal kid things-- wish I did even more than I did. You are only a kid once and can never go back; when you put in the focus required to advance like that you not only need optimal conditions (as with any speed run) but you have to grow up in ways that will come soon enough naturally and maintaining a narrow focus at a critical time in one's development. I am glad I wasn't pushed and just glided bye with a somewhat normal experience.
Perhaps that 11 year old will hit puberty and slow down like the rest of us did?
But why can't he be an evil genius?
Because he didn't spend 6 years in evil medical school. Duh!
(Not to assume that he won't...)
130
-70
===
sum: 60
so, average or mean is 60 / 2 = 30. OOPS.
and get -40 points for misspelling "writing" and "automatically".
I've always wondered how kids get to skip grades. How does one proclaim to be too smart to be bothered with sitting through second grade? What role/compulsion do the parents have in all of this?
I could only imagine what school would be like if all kids could opt to do all their work for the year up-front and then get to either take the rest of the year off or start next years work if they get done early.
Needless to say there would be quite a number of students finishing high school much earlier and or enjoying much longer summer vacations.
Dipshit, Youg kitd have made it at major Universities at very young ages especially before your cultural elitism became PC.
Who cares if he
(a) wants to study
(b) is too ___stupid___ to worry about you, idiot, not liking him
(c) is too busy to waste time with pot, or chase tail all day
The only sense in which your comment has any meaning is that it does not take University, great or small to learn, only imagination and a good teacher to answer questions.
In the US today you are all bemused by failing "systems" most devised by those who do not understand the problem, wake up, and get real otherwise you will find yourself a third world country ever so soon.
Not to be knee-jerk critical or anything, but this really isn't that impressive. Have any of you (those of you who've gotten a science degree from a good college, that is) ever actually taken science/calculus at a community college? It's a complete joke. I guarantee he would learn more if he'd just gone to a private prep school. If he ever winds up going to a real university (and by 'real' I mean Caltech, not CSU Northridge), his CC experience will mean exactly nothing - it won't even be useful. Community colleges have to teach to the level of their students, and the fact of the matter is that CC's are filled with morons. There is zero chance that the average 18-year-old at a CC can handle the physics that's taught at MIT. I'm not trying to be elitist, it's just a fact. I have personal experience - I ran out of math & science classes to take in high school and so took some physics classes (mechanics and E&M) at my local CSU campus during my senior year of high school. The next year I went to a top (MIT/Caltech) university as a physics major - it might as well have not even have been the same subject. In fact, I would say the CSU classes put me at a slight disadvantage because they gave me the false illusion of knowledge. CC would be even worse. All that kid learned were a few rote skills. I'm sure he knows that the derivative of x^2 is 2x and that's all. I guarantee that if you dropped him into an upper (or even lower) division mechanics class at a reasonable college he'd just puke. CC is a complete waste of time, if his parents had anything on the ball they would have been able to find a dozen more-productive things for him to do.
Any reasonably bright (top 5%) kid who likes math would be able to do what this kid did. All this story is is a symptom of bad parenting.
I thought genius was defined as something like an IQ in the 98th percentile or higher.
Defined as something like an IQ in the 98th percentile according to who? The word "genius" is a lot older than IQ tests.
(and IQ is a bullshit concept anyway, but that's another matter. *throws away karma*)
Property is theft.
Being different in school SUCKS ASS. [...] Social peers is all to often a nice waying of saying "hang out with the half wits".
And, with that, you prove that you had as much to do with defining yourself as "different" as your peers did (or that you both played a part... you know what I mean). You internalized their scorn, transformed it, and made it your own, a powerful and perhaps necessary defense mechanism (I did it too). But you're all grown up now, high school is over. Let's get over such negative thinking about ourselves and others.
Property is theft.
Telling people how much smarter you are than them is a good way to ensure you spend Friday night in the basement playing video games.
If he's that much smarter than the Average Joe (IMO he definitely is), he'll probably find that he's totally alien to most people and end up gaming alone in the basement in his spare time anyways, although he may want some of the benefits he can gain by putting up a facade of interest as he gets older...
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
He doesn't like videogames because he says they offer nothing to humanity, yet he wants to be an actor?
And since when all we do has to do anything with offering something to humanity? I think we want to say that it is so, they call you an egoist if you deny this, or sometimes it's a byproduct of that, but it's all personal motives for me.
The "H-Word" has died for me.
I, for one, welcome our new Jewish-Asian Hybrid Overlords.
So out of every 100 people you pass on the street, 2 are geniuses?
Out of curiosity, why did you join MENSA? I'm eligible, but I've never joined because I thought it was just a bunch of people who want to pretend they're special because they scored high on an intelligence/aptitude test.
I always took those at home IQ test and always scored about 99 percentile on those. I just wanted to see if I truly was in the top 2%. I have, as many other members, never attended any function. If it were not for the MENSA Bulletin, and the chat groups I might not renew. But MENSA also does some good for the community. And in this age of smart!=cool, I think just supporting a group of people not afraid to "own" their intelligence is nice.
No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
But I guess I'm a little older. When I was 11 I could walk and chew chewing gum at the same time. When I was 11 I could light firecrackers without blowing my fingers off. When I was 11 I was trusted with a 22 rifle. When I was 11......
Go here:
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V
The imaginary square root of -1?
Ist here a real one?
Sometimes slashdot is just to complex for me.
So out of every 100 people you pass on the street, 2 are geniuses?
Um, not quite.
The smart ones stay off the street.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I always wonder what the parents are thinking when they push their kid through the entire K-12-BA school system at such a fast rate. Do they really believe that the kid is better set up for life at that point then if they were to take their time and send the kid to a better college where the kid would get an early exposure to professors who are leaders in research in their respective fields? Better yet, have the kid skip out on the normal curriculum and find some more challenging instructional texts that the kid can do with remote supervision by a professor at a local college.
There is a quote that I remember from one of my professors in college. When talking about a particularly bright kid, he said "that kid is sufficiently bright that our classes and curriculum are more of a hindrance than an aid". The implication is that accomplishing a BA degree is many times more about grinding through material than something that shows a real difference between those who are truly educated than those who are not. I can still remember Jay Leno's "Jay Walks" where he would ask college graduates questions that many (admittedly unusually smart) 12 year old kids (still not in high school) without a BA could answer easily.
I have read enough biographies of those who end up with great achievements in their fields (Einstein and Newton being good examples). Almost none of them had abnormally accelerated the normal learning track. They almost always just side-stepped it. For example, in his teen age years Einstein was thinking thoughts that only specialized masters of those fields would be able to fully comprehend. Did his track record in school reflect this? No. (And if you follow Newton as a model, then you should force your child to be a farmer for a while so that they really will do anything they can to avoid that fate).
retarded is -70? Whew! I'm safe...
If genius is defined as being in the top 2% intellectually, which is how some people define it. Mensa allows the top 2% into its little club.
Others are more selective, limiting it to the top 1% or less.
Still others don't rely on IQ-based intelligence as the sole or even primary defining quality of genius.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
She might be doing it to satisfy the Board of Education. I know in Australia at least, the NSW Board of Education mandates that students watch and analyse movies as part of the English curriculum. The teacher in question may very well deplore the state of reading in her class, yet be forced to offer a whole host of drivel as part of the Board of Education requirements.
Video of him: http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=6009088&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526348,00.html?mrp
I'm proud of him. I think that even though it was only community college, he is determined to go to a 4 year college and at the rate he's going, he'll do just fine. And, I'm glad he doesn't see himself as unusual. After all, the kids he took the test with were the ones reminding him that he was different.
He'll go far and I hope no one stops him.