New MechWarrior Announced, MechWarrior4 To Be Distributed Free

Vamman writes "In light of the recent announcement of the new MechWarrior game, Smith and Tinker has granted our online dev team MekTek.net (which has been supporting MechWarrior for almost a decade now) permission to release MechWarrior 4 entirely for free using the same type of distribution model that id Games used for Quake3's free release.

Comments

I saw the trailer

[Killjoy_NL]

And it was looking ok enough, let's just hope the gameplay is excellent :)

Re:I saw the trailer

[stei7766]

emerge gaussrifle; emerge heatsinks

Insufficient disk space for mech-utils/heatsinks

Dammit!

Re:I saw the trailer

[nschubach]

Upgrade to ferro-fiberous armor... its a real space saver.

Re:I saw the trailer

[manekineko2]

It'll actually take up more space, but it'll run lighter.

Re:I saw the trailer

[nschubach]

Crap... that's right. It's been a while. ;)

Re:I saw the trailer

[default luser]

Good thing for you, the Gauss Rifle uses very little heat.

Hey, you get 10 heatsinks free with the engine. If you use double heatsinks, it won't cost you any critical slots for engines larger than 250 rating.

*Sigh* I'm a Battletech geek.

Re:I saw the trailer

[default luser]

But In terms of Ferro-Fibrous versus Endo-Steel, always go with Endo-Steel. They both take the same amount of critical spots, but Endo-Steel will always save you more weight than Ferro Fibrous will (for the same armor rating).

And since maximum armor is determined by rating (2x inner structure), and not by tonnage, you can't use Ferro-Fibrous to cheat the system and give you a higher max armor rating than normally possible.

Re:I saw the trailer

[Alcoholist]

They seem to be offering the classic mechs rather than trying to re-invent things which is a good thing. Pilot in the video needs his head read tho. Been a while since I played, but last time I checked it was suicide to go toe to toe with an Atlas driving a Warhammer. Isn't that like a 30 ton mass difference? If my lance couldn't help me, I'd be running away.

Re:I saw the trailer

[nschubach]

Wasn't Endo-Steel only available to the clans? Man, I forgot more than I remembered about that game.

Re:I saw the trailer

[default luser]

Nope. You see, EVERY SINGLE technology was eventually made available to both sides (with the exception of the C3 computer). Who had what tech depended on what FASA was smoking in a particular month.

This made a "standard" tough because "available" technologies varied from sourcebook to sourcebook. An example: the 3050 manual introduces all Clan tech, and gave MOST of it to the IS...but they left a few tasty bits for the Clan only:

Targeting Computer
ER Medium Laser
ER Small Laser
Small Pulse Laser
Ultra AC/10
Ultra AC/20
LB 2-X AC
LB 5-X AC
LB 20-X AC
Streak SRM-4
Streak SRM-6

And then they introduced other strange weapons like MRMs, and suddenly the universe was a mess.

Woo-hoo

[RogueyWon]

Excellent news about Mechwarrior 4. I wonder if the stand-alone Mercenaries spin-off (which I preferred) is also included (I note the expansions are)?

Also good news that if the screenshots/concept art are anything to go by, they plan on doing this properly. It doesn't look to me like some arcade-ified MechAssault type of game. I used to love the Mechwarrior games, partially because the complexity made it feel like you really were in command of a huge lump of metal. I don't expect they'll use half the keyboard on controls again, but if they can get something with even a vaguely sim-like feel, I'll be delighted.

I'm also very pleased that they're jumping back in the time-line. The Clans are great, and it would be neat if this game could feature the Clan invasion as its finale (like Battletech 2 and Mechwarrior 2 Mercenaries), but I always felt that the narrative just meandered after that. Plus it's actually a lot of fun trying to survive in relatively primative mechs like the Jenner.

Re:Woo-hoo

[StickansT]

"I used to love the Mechwarrior games, partially because the complexity made it feel like you really were in command of a huge lump of metal." Last time I went to Chucky Cheese, with a few friends (before they made the rule that u had to be over 18 and accompanied by childred). They had Mech warrior 3 (I believe it was that one) where u sat down in the chair, strapped in, and had 2 joy sticks. Also the chair raised up and moved accordingly to how u moved your mech and if u were dmged or not! It was pretty freakin sweet.

Re:Woo-hoo

[bigstrat2003]

The main thing I'm concerned about them getting down is the tweaking. By far the best part, for me, was always building your own mechs, coming up with new combinations. It was especially great if you had a regular opponent: my roommate and I were always looking to one-up or counter the other's newest mech design. That's the key part of the game to get right, in my opinion. If they get that, the rest isn't too hard to have fall into place.

Re:Woo-hoo

[RogueyWon]

Yes, that was great as well. I quite liked the balance they reached in MW4 with that, where you had room to tweak, but had to keep the categories of weapons etc vaguely in line with the original ethos of the chassis. So a laser-heavy mech might only be able to use energy weapons in a lot of its slots. It struck me as a good way of finding a balance between allowing for customisation, without turning it into a game of pure min/maxing.

Re:Woo-hoo

[ThinkWeak]

Chromehounds did a good job in this regard. I enjoyed it for quite some time. I've been playing "mech" games since Battledrome and I've had an itch lately to get back into playing them. So much so that I loaded Earthsiege onto an old PC.

I'll keep an eye on battletech.com for the distro release.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Altus]

ahhh medium pulse lasers.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Anonymous Coward]

The word is spelled "you", dumbshit.

Learn it. Love it.

Re:Woo-hoo

[An ominous Cow art]

I played MechWarrior and Mechwarrior II a bit. I don't remember how well they handled custom/modified mechs.

I and some of my friends lost many, many hours of our lives to MechForce/BattleForce on my Amiga. That was an adaptation of the board wargame, with top-down 2D graphics. We loved designing new mechs and trying them out on each other. I hope that this new game makes it just as easy...

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shadow of Eternity]

Sorry but that just doesn't fly when you actually play a PC game. I think it's cute that people are that obsessed with how it was originally configured in a tabletop game but there's no logical reason to start forcing me to use lasers instead of autocannons just because that's whan someone else did.

Gameplaywise I think MW2 really had it set. You could do pretty much anything you wanted, including strapping nothing but machineguns and PPCs to a mech that'd been stripped down to a leafblower for the engine and 3 sandwich wrappers for a heatsink. You'd explode if you tried to fire and never get anywhere but you COULD do it. It was up to you to find effective loadouts, you weren't shoehorned into it by some consoleized list of restrictions.

Re:Woo-hoo

[tepples]

Last time I went to Chucky Cheese, with a few friends (before they made the rule that u had to be over 18 and accompanied by childred).

Was that a joke? I just checked chuckecheese.com and the kid check page didn't mention anything about grown-ups not being allowed in by themselves.

Re:Woo-hoo

[RobotRunAmok]

It's not a matter of being cute, it was a matter of improving on the logic of the game. There you were in a Madcat, the most iconic of all the mechs, with what were clearly two shoulders filled with missiles (or something that looked pretty close to them) and you were --- what? saying "Pay no attention to those things that look like missiles, they're REALLY a mix of lasers and machine guns" ?

Video games are a visual medium. Function should follow form, especially in a giant robot. Especially in Multiplayer. Imagine playing Halo online and what looks like a pistol in your opponent's hand is really a BFG.

I think it's cute that people are that obsessed with how it was originally configured in a tabletop game
Seems to me you're the guy who should be playing the pen and paper game. Maybe upgrade yourself to a spreadsheet, and you can tweak your mathematical "what ifs" to your heart's content.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

I absolutely HATED that aspect of MW4. For me, it ruined the game. I love the boardgame and the great depth of modification you can go to, which was preserved in MW2 and MW3. The hardpoint system in MW4 could have made sense, but it oversimplified things for the console dweebs and lost its impact. Even then, the system didn't make sense in the continuity when you consider that omnimechs should have been able to have any weapon in their hardpoints, unlike conventional 'mechs that ar emuch more constained. It just stank to me.

Re:Woo-hoo

[dyingtolive]

Yuck. You got some aol-speak on my shoes.

Re:Woo-hoo

[StickansT]

maybe it was just a local thing, they didnt want it to be the new 'Hang out' place for the highschool kids.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

MW2 really represented the tabletop design mechanics quite well. This was its great strength to me - it gave you freedom to experiment and find out what worked. MW4 was completely different and took away a great deal of freedom, and I agree that it was a poor design decision.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shadow of Eternity]

So the developers laziness or technological limitations are just cause for forcing players to choose specific loadouts?

It's got rocket pods on the shoulders, woo hoo, so let me alter the loadout on the shoulder pods and then alter them visually ingame or make those unalterable and give me the rockets but let me do what I want with the rest of the mech. An arm with a gun barrel on it doesn't automatically mean PPC any more than it means gauss or autocannon.

Re:Woo-hoo

[RogueyWon]

Yes, I was going to repond to the grandparent, but you've said it all better than I would have done. For me, the biggest defect of MW2, particularly Mercenaries, was the way that all of the mechs felt so generic once you got into the tweaking. They were basically all just slightly differently shaped shells with a set amount of capacity for weapons.

As you say, in Mechwarrior 4, your mech's function actually had to match its form to some degree. There were actually mechs that had a lot of versatile slots for their weapons, making them completely customisable, but these mechs tended to have glaring defects elsewhere.

It also meant that when I picked out my lance for the mission, I actually ended up arranging it so that the lance looked and felt plausible within the context of the fiction. If I wanted a long range support mech, I'd be using a Catapult or a Vulture, not a Zeus stuffed with invisible missile racks.

It's funny, really, how excited I am that they've gone back to an early time-line setting. I mean, I do hope the Clans show up at some point, even if only in the multiplayer, but my defining memories of Battletech and Mechwarrior games basically revolve around frantically scuttling about in a lance of Locust and Jenner type mechs, with a couple of SRMs and lasers, frantically trying to come up with a way to take down a Dragon.

Re:Woo-hoo

[StickansT]

If you are refering to the shortened words as in dmged meaning damageded. I used this way before the Im messangers became popular. u can thank Diablo and Diablo2 for that.

Re:Woo-hoo

[StickansT]

lol damageded is not even a word...ment damaged

Re:Woo-hoo

[CAIMLAS]

Yep, MW2 had it set. I was pretty disappointed with MW3 and MW3 loadout ability. It was really restrictive compared to MW2. I couldn't use my favorite combinations.

I had a friend who loved the Jenner and, god forbid, the Uller for multiplayer. He'd strip the armor down to nothing, give it a handful of heatsinks and a jumpjet or two, boost up the engines to the max, and outfit it just a handful of small lasers. He was devistating against anything but other similarly equipped mechs: he'd avoid all incoming fire with finesse, get in close, and either get up underneath you and shoot the cockpit out (quickly) or follow you (if you were in a medium or other light mech) and shoot the backside middle of the chassis out. It was a really good technique, and he could do it while avoiding another mech as well.

In 3 and 4, a lot of the more esoteric combinations didn't really work. For that matter, it was largely a moot point; they'd changed the chassis on most mechs enough, as well as the general aiming and gameplay, that it didn't matter much. Pretty frustrating.

The other thing about 3 and 4 I didn't like was that LRMs weren't as effective for actual long-range use, it seemed.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Anonymous Coward]

The MekTek guys have also been working on the updates featured on teh original BattleTech Center pods, the Virtual World Tesla II BattleTech VR Pods.

The pods currently run BattleTech: Firestorm, which is based off of the MW4 source, but tweaked for the VR cockpits (7 monitors, 100 controls, etc)

The guy at MechJock.com took them to Origins, and it taking some of them to Gencon next month.

The same guy bought Virtual World (www.virtualworld.com), the company, and moved it to Kalamazoo, MI (Note that Cmdr Taco)

There is a group in Houston called MechCorps who is taking the BattleTech pods on the road as well (mechcorps.com)

Re:Woo-hoo

[Anonymous Coward]

Please stop posting. You're hurting my brain.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Bakkster]

So the developers laziness or technological limitations are just cause for forcing players to choose specific loadouts?

No, it's the game canon. Most Mechs are not intensely customizable. They have some hardpoints for mounting, and it makes sense that some hardpoints might not have the hardware to accept any old weapon. Energy weapon hardpoints will have large power and coolant conduits. ACs and Missiles will have smaller energy/coolant conduits, and ammo feed mechanisms. Additional modifications would not be within the realm of possiblity for a mercenary lance or other small combat group.

It seems a fair assumption that the MadCat designers (in canon) would not find the need to place ammo feeds into the arms (where the PPCs were located) or high-power conduits to the missile pods.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Fireye]

Rather, the developers are staying within the existing confines of the BattleTech universe. In 3015, it simply isn't possible to have a variable weapons loadout, especially not out in the field. Mechs were rare commodities, very very very few NEW mechs were being produced, and the ones that were generally were based on older designs.

There were no Omnimechs. There was no system to effectively retrofit a battlemech in the field. There WERE Battlemech Variants. So you may be able to choose from a Battlemaster C and a Battlemaster A, but you couldn't (easily) convert from A to C.

Re:Woo-hoo

[RobotRunAmok]

An arm with a gun barrel on it doesn't automatically mean PPC any more than it means gauss or autocannon.

You're absolutely right. And if you notice, it's those components which were appropriately open-ended and customizable in MW4. But a shoulder hod of missiles was, well, a shoulder hod of missiles.

Remember, also, that the Computer Game Mechwarrior developers were working within a firmly established canon of what these mechs looked like, and it was important for them -- and the fans -- to respect that legacy. You don't go pay good money to DC to make a Batman game and then decide to let the lead character have heat vision and super-strength because some game players who aren't familiar with Batman demand a lot of customization.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Fireye]

MechWarrior (286/386 era) didn't have any customisations for mechs, if I remember correctly. You could purchase whatever mech you wanted, but it had a fairly standard loadout (though some weapons came destroyed and had to be repaired, IIRC).

Re:Woo-hoo

[The Moof]

"Pay no attention to those things that look like missiles, they're REALLY a mix of lasers and machine guns"

So what would be so hard about making it look like this? It's a Catapult (basically the Madcat w/ no arms), but it still shows my point. Basically, instead of rendering large box missile pods, just put laser cannons on the shoulders.

Personally, I prefer the "do whatever you want" instead of "missile a, b, or c for generic box on the shoulder" because it lets you play around more and experiment.

Re:Woo-hoo

[UnknownSoldier]

> I wonder if the stand-alone Mercenaries spin-off (which I preferred) is also included (I note the expansions are)?

Cyberlore did The Black Knight and 2 mech packs. Since they are no longer in business there might be some legal issues (hopefully not.)

They never did fix that no heatsink bug... :-(

--
WoW (TM) is the McDonalds (TM) of MMORPGs.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Khyber]

Welcome to Slashdot.

Now start taking the time to use proper spelling and grammar. You're not in high school any longer, so act and speak like an adult or shut the fuck up and go play with the children.

Re:Woo-hoo

[stei7766]

Oh snaps, I think I might have played that once (loooong time ago though). Did it have a bunch of little green MFDs that you could customize on the fly?

Re:Woo-hoo

[SuiteSisterMary]

Exactly. Classic CLASSIC BattleTech, where a 'mech was often a family heirloom, battles were as much ritual combat as anything else, and MechWarriors were akin to pilots in WW1.

All got farked up when the GDL found that damn Star League memory core and New Avalon Academy of Science started unlocking lostech....

(hope I remembered all that fluff properly - been a while, but dammit, I'm going to reread the Warrior trilogy tonight. Justin Allard for the win!)

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shadow of Eternity]

Take a look at how many other mechs you destroy in the average mechwarrior game and at how readily we can retrofit things here on earth. If they can make a giant walking robot (which is already physically impossible by it's design) then it isn't much more of a leap to think they could just take the missiles out of what is essentially a giant empty rack and put something else in there and plug it in.

The mech universe is inherently self-contradicting if you go by what you've put forth. Mechs are a rare commodity and yet you destroy hordes of them, mechs are specifically designed and yet their designs are ineffective and tend towards being self-destructive, you can keep maintained these massive and supremely complicated machines but you can't move some weapons around the chassis.

The logic just doesn't work in it's own context.

Re:Woo-hoo

[dunkelfalke]

Justin Allard has retrofitted his Centurion with AC/20. That was AFAIR in 3027.

Re:Woo-hoo

[X0563511]

You don't know what you are talking about.

The event in question is the Eternal September, and that happened before Diablo. It also had nothing to do with instant messaging.

Re:Woo-hoo

[X0563511]

mmm a Nova packed to the brim with PPCs. No armor. That made a great dueler (so long as everyone else had the same fit).

Large ER Lasers were that way too.

(two shots your dead, basically is the deal)

Re:Woo-hoo

[slaker]

Based on my recollection of the original Mechwarrior RPG, the Inner Sphere states controlled between them somewhere between 300 and 400 regiments, each consisting of roughly 100 battlemechs. Add in all the mercenaries, pirates and periphery powers and figure that maybe there might be a total of 50,000 mechs.

That's for the whole of human space in the Battletech Universe of 3025 (the fiction also suggests that Comstar had its Com Guards, which had some vast and uncounted number of mechs).

Going by the game fiction the largest planetary conflicts (Twycross) might have involved 4000 - 5000 Mechs, while a heavily guarded single planet like Tharkad might have 8 regiments acting in defense. Huge hellish battles certainly could happen.

At the same time, a multiple-planet Bandit Kingdom might have been formed by somebody with four mechs and a dropship, outside the general area of organized civilization. If you have giant war machines and the only means of providing things like water and food, you are in charge.

The game also makes clear that some worlds would have no mechs and for that matter only a 19th century technology base, either because of the size of the state vs. the importance of that planet, or because of the feudalist attitudes of that planet's ruler. Or both.

Battletech has really awesome source material.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Fireye]

Up until (as a previous poster mentioned) LosTech (Old Star League technology) was rediscovered, what I said was true. All MechWarrior games after the first were set post-clan invasion, which is after the Inner Sphere began to recover methods and technology on the creation of BattleMechs. The Clans never lost that tech, so building mechs wasn't as large an issue for them. ... also, pretty much all of the MechWarrior games so far have been pretty Action/Arcadey. It's nescessary to have a multitude of enemies, so the limitations of the fictional universe weren't applied nearly as strictly.

Regarding adaptation, I think you're partially correct, within the confines of the fictional universe. Yes, weapons can be adapted to fit mechs that weren't designed for them, but I'd guess it's extremely unlikely that you could do it effectively in the field. It'd be like taking an afternoon to put a 600hp rotary engine in a Corolla. Also, the weapons may not have been so compartmentalized back in 3015. Sure, you could probably weld on a weapon to a part of the Chassis, but did you plan for the added weight in that area? Did you make sure that enough power was routed there? Do you have localized heatsinks ready to dissipate the heat involved with firing that weapon?

This game seems to be based upon the defense of a fairly backwater planet from a Kurita invasion. Based on that subject, I think it's unlikely that there would be too much customization of weapons possible, if it sticks true(er) to the fictional universe.

Re:Woo-hoo

[jma05]

In Halo 1, the pistol was the BFG.

Re:Woo-hoo

[X0563511]

any chance you can drop some ISBNs for those who would like the reading?

Re:Woo-hoo

[Anonymous Coward]

And don't forget friggin' Wolf's Dragoons leaking all that lostech while acting as Clan advanced scouts, too!

Re:Woo-hoo

[Anonymous Coward]

Chromehounds for xbox360 circa a few years ago is about the closest and best thing you can get to a mech sequel, and has been for a while. Nice to see a new Mech-title coming out.

Re:Woo-hoo

[nschubach]

I agree with you on that. MW2 was far more customizable. Microsoft Games got hold of the franchise and it went to "socket city" with no real customization options.

Made for some interesting tactics: A friend would load his Mech with nothing but lasers, run in and blow off my leg in one shot.

Re:Woo-hoo

[dunkelfalke]

But then again, MW2 allowed gunboats - take a heavy mech, put 14 MLasers and lots of heat sinks into it and you've got a mech that can kill every other mech with one single alpha strike.

Re:Woo-hoo

[MeatBag PussRocket]

i remember MechWarrior for the 386 well, the limitations were largely due to the hardware of the day, but Riflemen Battlemasters were totally the best! i was really saddened to not see them in MW2 or later iterations. as far as customizing goes, the MW2 scheme really added to the depth and replay value of the game well beyond most other games. it brings to my mind the free form flexibility with counterstrike vs the typical class based systems in most FPS games. to a degree i agree with the legacy heritage argument, but i can also see the point about modifying the models to accurately reflect the loadout but i think there is a 3rd line of thinking that is missing, one of the neat things about highly specialized loadouts was misdirection and subterfuge, it added a certain Sun Tzu art of war mentality to the game, a Jenner with a PPC or Gauss Cannon would really surprise people who would be attacking a 3rd party in a heavy mech thinking they were safe from a distance, then POW! or vice versa. The BT universe always struck me as highly dystopian and a "play with what you brung" kinda place. if you brought a knife to a gun fight you'd have to find a way to live, but if you brought a gun to a knife fight it jsut might be payday. i can quite easily imagine a mech pilot who had a once glorious Warhammmer -now crippled- loaded out with whatever he could find laying around the camp, a few MGs (they seem like they'd be a pretty universally mountable thing, you could practically duct tape them on, not really high tech stuff) perhaps salvage an AC or 2 off an enemy mech he destroyed. point is, the legacy is nice, but if the legacy gets in the way of the original intent its time to kick the legacy in the balls.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shadow of Eternity]

But that's just it then, sticking to the source material. If I'm going to have whatever I can scrap together and be severely limited in what I can put where on my mech the other guys had better be operating under the same rules as long as they're supposedly in the same situation I am.

Of course we all know what ACTUALLY happens is you wind up going up against guys that never seem to run out of gauss ammo until you remove it from him.

Re:Woo-hoo

[CronoCloud]

You were close, it's actually the NAIS, New Avalon Institute of Science.

And for those who don't know, GDL stands for Gray Death Legion, who found a Star League memory core on the planet Helm near the end of the Fourth Succession War. They then gave copies to all the Great Houses who then began decoding it and becoming able to bring back some of the technology lost in the First, Second, and Third Succession Wars

I still love that line they wrote for Hanse Davion: "Wife, in honor of our marriage, in addition to this morsel I give you a vast prize. My love, I give you the Capellan Confederation!"

Re:Woo-hoo

[geekboy642]

You cannot blame your inability to communicate in written English on a game you played. Take the minimal effort to type well enough that you don't resemble a mouth-breather, for your own good.

Re:Woo-hoo

[ivogan]

8 flamers, a good amount of heatsinks, and decent armor made sure my friend's first laser shot was his last... hehe

Re:Woo-hoo

[PaganRitual]

Seeing as apparently no one is going to follow the second link that talks about it, this is the massive block of text you have to wade through on that page to get that information, after going through the arduous effort of a mouse click :)

7/09/2009

MechWarrior to be Distributed Free on BattleTech.com

In honor of BattleTech's 25th anniversary, Smith & Tinker has authorized MekTek.net and MekTek Studios to distribute MechWarrior 4 (along with its expansion packs) completely free. For years, MekTek.net has been the central point for online distribution of MechWarrior 4 expansion packs. Now they can provide the core game free to the fans as well. Keep an eye on BattleTech.com â" the free download will be available soon!

To summarize : yes.

Re:Woo-hoo

[manekineko2]

It's not a matter of being cute, it was a matter of improving on the logic of the game. There you were in a Madcat, the most iconic of all the mechs, with what were clearly two shoulders filled with missiles (or something that looked pretty close to them) and you were --- what? saying "Pay no attention to those things that look like missiles, they're REALLY a mix of lasers and machine guns" ?

Hah, I appreciate the sentiment, but in all fairness, this type of inconsistency has a lot historical precedent in Battletech. Take the original Marauder, just as iconic as the Madcat, and you clearly have a gigantic cannon mounted on its center torso. Under the game rules? Not so much, AC/5 mounted on right torso. Another example is the iconic Atlas. Massive AC/20? A tiny nub on its side. LRM/20? Totally not present. The designers of Battletech never let the pictures they had to work with get in the way of the game they wanted to make.

Re:Woo-hoo

[dunkelfalke]

Sure. Start with the Gray Death Legion trilogy, then continue with the Warrior trilogy and after that the Kurita books:

Gray Death Legion trilogy:
Decision at Thunder Rift 0451451848
Mercenary's Star 0451451945
The Price of Glory 0451452178

Warrior trilogy:
En Garde 0451456831
Riposte 0451457188
Coupe 0451457226

Wolves on the Border 0451453883
Heir to the Dragon 0451455274

Re:Woo-hoo

[Anonymous Coward]

That is exactly how I felt when I played MW4. MW2 had, by far, the best mech customisation and gameplay. All of the other Mechwarrior games were disappointing in comparison.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Anonymous Coward]

That was another thing that bothered me about Mechwarrior 4, they didn't use the correct names for the Mechs. It's not "Mad Cat", it's Timber Wolf. It's not "Thor", it's Summoner. It's not "Daishi", it's Dire Wolf. Get it right.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shinobi]

MW4 made more sense. And in fact, the Omnimechs DID have omni slots that could take any weapon type. And those omni slots were in the expected places. Like in the arms on the Timber Wolf/Mad Cat for example.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on how you want to read them.

If you want to read them in the order they were published, they are listed here.

If you instead would like to read them in the chronological order of the storyline, go here for a good list.

Unfortunately, there's no ISBNs in the second link, so you'll have to google or use the first one to find the books for sale.

Re:Woo-hoo

[walshy007]

you think that's bad. Mech warrior 3: pirates moon unlocks the elemental, a 10 tonne tiny ass mech. now, strip everything, add two jump jets and engine to the max, you only have enough room left for two small lasers, but that doesn't matter terribly much

With said configuration, you can travel approx 130km/h, and if you jump jet at max speed, you can travel 1.2km before you land. locked on lrm's don't phase you, since you can out-run them.

Makes for a very interesting game though vs a regular medium-heavy mech, while it's extremely difficult for them to touch you, it takes a LOT of hits for your small lasers to do significant damage. Frustrates them to no end though, being unable to hit you.

Re:Woo-hoo

[sapphire wyvern]

So the developers laziness or technological limitations are just cause for forcing players to choose specific loadouts?

No, it's the game canon. Most Mechs are not intensely customizable. They have some hardpoints for mounting, and it makes sense that some hardpoints might not have the hardware to accept any old weapon. Energy weapon hardpoints will have large power and coolant conduits. ACs and Missiles will have smaller energy/coolant conduits, and ammo feed mechanisms. Additional modifications would not be within the realm of possiblity for a mercenary lance or other small combat group.

It seems a fair assumption that the MadCat designers (in canon) would not find the need to place ammo feeds into the arms (where the PPCs were located) or high-power conduits to the missile pods.

Actually, you're very close to exactly right but not quite. Traditional 'Mech designs were like real world armoured vehicles in that their weapons & equipment loadout was pretty non-modular. Like the real world, however, there were also many revisions of most of the basic designs. In the tabletop game, altering the loadout of one of these 'Mechs was a significant engineering effort that required skilled engineers, technicians, and weeks of work.

However, the Mad Cat is a slightly different beast. One of the primary features of the Mad Cat and its sister Clan mechs was that they were "OmniMechs", which had a completely modular design with respect to weaponry. (In the tabletop game, you have more or less free reign: You can't remove the built-in armour or heatsinks, although you can add more, and you can't change the engine. Other than that, go nuts). Canonically, these could be completely refitted in a matter of hours, and each OmniMech chassis came with 4 or 5 different "standard loadouts". They typically tend to follow the same general theme as the standard loadout, (eg tweaking the size and type of missile racks, or changing one "large barrel" type weapon for a different one such as swapping autocannons for lasers). However there are counter examples - I'm pretty sure there is at least one canonical Mad Cat loadout that doesn't include any missiles at all.

Lower-class warriors were required to use a standard loadout, if they could get an OmniMech at all, while higher-class warriors were allowed custom loadouts. I believe there are actually some miniatures available to represent some of the popular alternate loadouts.

Re:Woo-hoo

[drinkypoo]

Omni mechs are supposed to be able to load weapons in any slot. Non-omni mechs have typed slots. Forcing you to place weapons in typed slots on all chassis broke canon, and was also annoying.

With that said, the one fix I would like most in MW4 is widescreen support.

Re:Woo-hoo

[drinkypoo]

It seems a fair assumption that the MadCat designers (in canon) would not find the need to place ammo feeds into the arms (where the PPCs were located) or high-power conduits to the missile pods.

Actually, the ammunition is stored in the same body location as the weapon; IIRC in some flavors of actual Battletech you could store ammunition (which took up space) in a neighboring location so long as it was closer to the CT (or was the CT, but you don't want an ammo crit there, now do you?)

I may actually still have the books, but they're well and rightly buried under a lot of my other old shit if I do...

Re:Woo-hoo

[CAIMLAS]

Yeah, I've never played with Elementals, though I've always thought it'd be fun. I suspect a good countermeasure would be - surprise! - to use more clan tech: small pulse lasers. Get four of 'em and they'd act more like a cutting laser than a pulse and a 'hit' would be less of an issue.

How do they fare against Streak SRMs? I'd imagine there's something in the clan arsenal to take 'em out. I know that in missions against Elementals in MW4, a couple MG hits will take 'em out without much complaining.

Now, a full Elemental Star would be a bit of a hassle, I think. Maybe something a Long Tom would have to handle?

Re:Woo-hoo

[Sibko]

Just wanted to point out a few things here:

The "Mad Cat" is the inner sphere designation for the clan Timber Wolf. It was named such because it looks like a cross between a Marauder and a Catapult.

Further, the Timber Wolf is an Omni-mech, it was specifically designed for alternative weapon loadouts. Which is to say, it doesn't have any problems with ammo or missiles going in specific locations, because the whole thing is modular. A Timber Wolf Prime carries the iconic LRM 20's, while the Timber Wolf A only carries a single SSRM 6 in the right torso.

So essentially your statement that

the MadCat designers (in canon) would not find the need to place ammo feeds into the arms (where the PPCs were located) or high-power conduits to the missile pods.

Is entirely wrong. In fact, the clans liked the ability to change and customize loadouts so much that they've relegated all non-omni mechs to second-line status.

Re:Woo-hoo

[X0563511]

Thanks! (and thanks to the AC with the two lists)

Re:Woo-hoo

[Darundal]

That was Mechwarrior 4 paired with the PC version of Crimson Skies.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Anonymous Coward]

"lol", "ment" and "u" aren't words either. You seriously need to go back to school.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

From what I recall, the TW/MC had some omni slots, but limited slots as well, which made no sense. The Mad Cat is my ride of choice so I was very disappointed by this.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Reapy]

I think it goes beyond matching the chassis, and really gives you something to identify mechs in the multiplayer.

Pardon me while I butcher what mechs were (been a while), but say if I saw, what was it, the nova? walking over the hill, chances are it has 7 erlarge lasers on it and was going to alpha burst me. Or maybe I saw a diasii and he fired 3 gause cannons at me, I probaly know what kind of loadout he is sporting now.

Or what about the thor, I knew it has a giant ballistic arm, so I knew there might be a giant uac loaded down on it, take out that arm or keep my distance. If someone had a catapult out around max range, chances are it was missle boat coming at me.

In older mechs, you had 50 guns stuck on the legs and torso and never put any weapons on the arms, just disposable parts cause you knew they'd get blown off easily. Sure you saw a dire wolf coming over the little ega mountain there, but you'd have no clue what the hell was on it, depended on the player, not the mech. It really didn't matter what mech was coming at you then, only the player. Boring.

Hardpoints are great, they give the mech character due to the limited load out (otherwise whats the difference between a mech besides visuals and tonage? ), and they curb 'munchkin' building SOMEWHAT, at least enough that if you wanted to snipe or get in their face, or be a laser boat, or missile boat, you had several options, but had to conform to certain mechs. Meaning, there was a REASON to take certain mechs over another. Much better then just pick any random mech in your desire tonage and using the same configuration.

Re:Woo-hoo

[SuiteSisterMary]

Ah, so close, so close. I knew it was the 'NA_S'. Just couldn't remember that last bit.

Back in the good old days, when seeing a heavy 'mech was an affair, and seeing an Assault 'mech was rare. When it was just accepted that you DO NOT shoot the DropShips or JumpShips. When plates with the crests of worlds were considered vital military intelligence....

Re:Woo-hoo

[SavTM]

And for those who don't know, GDL stands for Gray Death Legion, who found a Star League memory core on the planet Helm near the end of the Fourth Succession War. They then gave copies to all the Great Houses who then began decoding it and becoming able to bring back some of the technology lost in the First, Second, and Third Succession Wars

My memory going back to the original MW game is hazy because I played it so much without actually following the story when I was younger. I remember when I finally beat it, though, I had tracked down a Gray Death _____ with a bunch of immense mechs. In a 4v5 battle where one of my 3 ace pilots inevitably would do something bone-headed and we'd all die and I'd play it over again. Is it the same Gray Death Legion? And where in the timeline did the original MW computer game fall? Honestly, I am amazed that Microsoft would buy the license just to do so little with it for so long and I'm just really happy there is going to be a new one.

Re:Woo-hoo

[SavTM]

Sorry...I'm new here (or longtime lurker, anyway) and didn't realize you can't edit/delete comments. Perhaps downmodding or somehow hiding my previous post would be possible? It should be marked SPOILER! Sorry again!

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shinobi]

It made a lot of sense, actually, especially when looking at how true it was to the boardgame(that is, VERY true. There were no official published Timber Wolf variants without missiles for example, only power gaming munchkins who are mentally unable to use common sense published variants)

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

.

Uhhh... would you like me to find some examples for you? Have a look at Megamek (the third party PC port of the classic boardgame) for a -very- complete list of official variants.

The point of an omnimech is that it can have totally unique weapons loadouts. Even if every single published Mad Cat/Timberwolf, ever, had missiles it would -still- be legitimate and consistent with Battletech rules to outfit it with nothing but lasers (all the way from Compendium through Master Rules to Total War).

A lot of the variants published in the Technical Readouts notoriously made no sense (the Blackhawk/Nova Prime is a great example). You would think that if a design 'made sense' it would be competitive with a highly optimised 'power gamer' design. Since that's not the case, people design mechs to suit their play style. For instance, I always convert the Mad Cat/Timberwolf D to set its dual rear-facing SSRM systems to face forward. Anyone who plays the game could tell you that it makes a huge improvement in the performance of the design. Is that power gaming, or sensible? Perhaps both.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shinobi]

MegaMek is not fully official. The canon Timber Wolves are Primary, A, B, C, D and Pryde. They all have missiles. Also, the descriptions of omnimechs make it clear that not all weapon systems are necessarily omni-spec, some are actually hardwired.

The thing is, what power gamers miss is the SPIRIT of the game itself, and make up pathetic rationalizations for breaking it willy-nilly. Then again, most all of them can do is fight on featureless boards. Taking your MegaMek example, most powergamers in the various leagues drop from the game as soon as people start putting out serious terrain, just like they didn't bother to show up for serious tabletop games that featured terrains and other things that made it far more tactical. And that's the thing the "highly optimised" setups miss out on. They have just crunched some numbers to benefit them on a featureless table, or at the most minimal terrain. The canon setups are based on the spirit of the game, that battlefields vary from plains, to tight-up urban combat, or combat in the mountains, or forests, for a certain amount of self-sufficience according to what the spirit of the game and its setting is.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

Megamek isn't in any way official; but they do have complete lists of official designs. And yes, some omnimech weapons are hardwired - the flamer on the Puma/Adder leaps to mind. If that was the case then arguably MW4 should not have let you remove the weapon /at all/.

And off the top of my head, you've forgotten the Mad Cat/Timberwolf F, a Mechforce UK design, which doens't have missiles. You might find this page informative: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Timber_Wolf_(Mad_Cat)#Alternate_Configurations

I think it's [citation needed] with regards to the playing habits of Battletech power gamers. The spirit of the game is what you make it - I've played games with stock mechs and custom mechs on all types of terrain. To my mind, playing on the blank white maps is mindbogglingly boring; I can't imagine why anyone would.

As it is, many designs in the cannon are highly optimised with very limited roles. Eg. the classic TRO-3025 Charger or the more recent Mjolnir - these are designs that fail utterly outside of their niche. While broadly capable units exist (like the multi-role Warhammer), it's often suicide to take mechs unsuited to the terrain being used.

I do agree, however, that canon units can be fun because they are a mixed bag that forces you to adapt to whatever it was that the random unit table handed you.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shinobi]

If you read closer, you'll see that even the F model has missiles. All it mentions is that it's had other weapons swapped around

"Alt. Config. F - This variant takes the primary configuration, downgrades the pulse laser to an ER Medium and replaces the Machine Guns with three Anti-Personnel Gauss Rifles." That is, a Primary variant, with LRM20's, but pulse swapped for ERMedL, and then the anti-personnel gauss rifles instead of Machine Guns.

As for the people who play with minimal or no terrain: It's the kind of people who can only look at things mathematically, without the ability to visualize existing inside the fantasy. Such as the people who play Smoke Jaguar, but focus fire from a hidden ambush, while calling in artillery. Completely having forgotten about the Rules of engagement they are supposed to stick to due to having chosen such a clan.

Meanwhile, you have the other kind of people, who can actually visualize themselves into a particular role. Like some friends of mine, who played a huge battle over the course of a weekend, a Clan Wolf trinary vs a full Federated Commonwealth battalion. They did not go for BV or anything, but rather looked at posted TOE's as a guideline of how the units would be composed, and a diversity of skill etc, instead of all maxed out.

Then they ran the scenario another time, as Kurita vs Nova Cats, to see how it was affected by a different ROE on both sides.(Not that it did much good. Wolves lost 2 mechs, 3 severely damaged but still operational, 5 with lesser damage. Nova cats had 5 mechs operational, but were utterly victorious)

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

I'll take your word for it on the F - without my books or comprehensive web references I can't say for sure. However, this website disagrees: http://encyclopedia-battletech.net/battlemechs_detail.php?id=1842&sort=ASC&letter=T&orderby=name,%20model

I don't think looking at the game mathematically is a poor choice - it's a winning strategy - but if you're playing random terrain then tricked out designs optimised for no terrain will get hosed by anything with speed and close range firepower.

The really sweet thing about Battletech is that it lets you play it how you like, and I guess that's what pissed me off about MW4. The flexibility was taken from me so my imagination -couldn't- go wild. Afterall, I could always just fill omni slots with missiles if I'd wanted! Give the player the option to explore.

My hunch is that they had made this 3D model of a TW with missile pods on the shoulders and didn't want to go to the trouble of changing it on the fly to have lasers or whatever crazy configuration players came up with, but also not have the weirdness of MW2 and 3 where sometimes missiles came spewing out of a long cannon barrel (hey, it worked for the Zeus!). It struck me as a trite limitation simply for the sake of making pretty demo reels, at the expense of fun.

Gotta say, I miss the good ol' days when I could have a game that big. Everyone is too busy these days, including me (yeah, I'm typing this from work... kill me, please).

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shinobi]

That description is incorrect. Read the canon novel by Michael A. Stackpole, Lethal Heritage, part of the Blood of Kerensky trilogy, and you'll see that Mech Warrior Vlad(Later Khan Vlad Ward) actually fired missiles. The description is such that the vehicle identification program can't decide between a catapult or a Marauder, because of the boxy missile launchers, the lack of autocannon on top etc.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

I've read the novels (all of them up until the Jihad, where the continuity went to hell and I lost interest), and I don't recall any mention that Vlad was riding in an F that day. I believe the fluff text is ripped from TRO:3050 and I think it refers to Timberwolves in general (as opposed to just the F, note it lists all the major variants at the bottom of the page). The configuration given on that page, though, is for the F specifically.

If I was back in Oz where most of my battletech stuff is I could look it up for myself. Makes me wonder if there are any scenario book that state definitively what 'mech he used on The Rock in 3050.

I have to say, it's good to meet someone who knows his(her?) Battletech. Long time since I've had a good run for my money! Kids these days with their fancy computer games and click bases... they gots no respect for the greats, the punks. *shakes his walking stick*

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

Errr, back in 3049. *forehead slap* Damn, now I'm old -and- senile.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shinobi]

There is a scenario for it, I just can't remember which book it is in, if it is in the Wolf Clan sourcebook or not.

And yes, it's fun to discuss lore in a serious matter, unlike kids today, who have no patience, instead they just want to be spoonfed stuff.

As for the TR:3050, please don't use the Upgrade variant as reference, since it refers to Jihad line design also, which is just utterly fucked up. As you say, it messes entirely with continuity, and that has affected mechs too. TR:3050 and TR:3050 Revised are still good, because they had the original developers on it, and the original vision, instead of new developers pissing in their marks.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

The only TRO:3050 is the old one with the orange TW on the front. I got tired of them trying to sell me the same damned book over and over again.

The Wizkids people should be made to pay for what they did to our hobby. Alas, we will never see justice.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Shinobi]

Yeah. I'm not too happy about how they managed to butcher Shadowrun even worse than Mike Mulvihill and his flunkies had managed to do with the third edition revisions of lore and stuff. And 4th edition is just... ugh

Now, a game I'd love to see a MMO version of, a strategic/tactical kind that is, is Renegade Legion. That would be absolutely awesome.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Kell Bengal]

I never found a copy of Renegade... I should look it up some time. Centurion used the same maps as Battletech, if I recall.

Re:Woo-hoo

[Lobo7922]

In the interview at IGN you can read that they are trying to go more simulator than arcade, they call it "Action sim". However they plan to merge Xbox and PC gamers (like in shadowrun) and I wonder, how are the Xbox players going to deal with all that complexity?

Re:Woo-hoo

[JTsyo]

any place that sells them as sets? Or do you have to hunt down the books one by one?

Q!

[StickansT]

What was the same type of distribution model that id Games used for Quake3's free release?

Re:Q!

[bananaquackmoo]

good question, i was wondering that myself.

Re:Q!

[verbalcontract]

No, this is fre, which means you can only play three-fourths of the game. But luckily the last fourth is pretty much the same as the third.

Re:Q!

[Anonymous Coward]

they released the most of the source code for Q3, back then.

Re:Q!

[mewsenews]

Quake 3's source code was released under the GPL, but the game assets remained commercial property of id Software.

They did the same thing with Quake 2, Quake 1, and Doom. Hopefully Doom 3's code will be released soon.

I don't know why the story submitter couldn't have said "source code released under GPL", like Slashdotters won't know what "source code" means?

Re:Q!

[Stormwatch]

From the trailer, it looks like the original Quake distribution model: they only distribute brown textures.

Re:Q!

[thepotoo]

Engine goes GPL, artwork, textures, models etc., are still owned by company. Homeworld also used this same scheme, as did Freespace. This means that the game becomes free as in open, not free as in gratis (in this case, however, it appears that the game itself will be free as in beer too, which is awesome.)

This allows the open source community to use a cool new engine, builds goodwill amongst the game's fan/mod community and lets the company keep their IP exclusive for new titles. At least, this is what I think they're doing. I can't seem to find details anywhere.

Re:Q!

[JSBiff]

While it's true that Quake 3 did that (release the game engine under GPL), I don't think the game engine for MW4 is being released under the GPL. I followed the links in the article, but I see nothing which indicates a source code release for the MW4 game engine. It just appears to me that the game is being release 'free' (as in lunch) as a promotional way of stirring up interest in the new MW game. Which is UNLIKE Quake 3, but very much like the release of Tribes and Tribes 2 for free before the release of the third Tribes game, a few years ago.

I mean, I could be wrong, but the only place I see anything comparing this release to Quake 3 is in the /. summary, and we all know what an absolutely *stellar* record /. submissions have of being factually correct in all details.

Re:Q!

[Iori Branford]

None. Q3 is only open-source. Either you'll still have to pay for MW4, or the submitter doesn't know what it's talking about.

er wat

[Anonymous Coward]

New MechWarrior Announced, MechWarrior 4 To Be Distributed For

To Be Distributed For what???

Re:er wat

[Reason58]

New MechWarrior Announced, MechWarrior 4 To Be Distributed For

To Be Distributed For what???

For free. If you bothered to read the only sentence in the summary you would have figured that out.

Re:er wat

[StickansT]

ok, we aren't freaking stupid here, and it seems like a deacent question if more than one person was thinking it. We know what FREE means but how are we, the users, going to get this FREE game. Are they going to show up at out house with the CD and pass it out to every one in our house hold, or are they going to release it though a client like Steam or just a click here for your free mechwarrior4 game!

Re:er wat

[Zero__Kelvin]

Are they going to show up at out house with the CD and pass it ... [Emphasis and Link Added]

You are thinking of the Windows distribution model ... ;-)

Re:er wat

[Anonymous Coward]

BAWWWWW cunty over here is all butthurt that Slashcode is limited and won't show a headline longer than a certain amount and someone makes a comment poking fun at it.
Perhaps you won't hear me fucking your mother while you sob yourself to sleep while your computer craps out trying to install Linux.

What about Mechassault 3?

[spire3661]

I know alot of mechwarrior purists hate it for being too arcade, but they were FUN games.

Re:What about Mechassault 3?

[HaZardman27]

True, I am a fan of both series. I would like to see an update to MechAssault with modern physics engines almost as much as I am glad to see this.

Re:What about Mechassault 3?

[Bakkster]

I'm still waiting for a high-quality graphical update to the old board game. Even incorporating the MechWarrior RPG rules. Basically Mech Commander using the old turn-based rules instead of scrambling to do simple things.

Re:What about Mechassault 3?

[AdamThor]

I loved the Mech Commander games. I would like some more of those, please.

Re:What about Mechassault 3?

[deniable]

Have you tried Megamek?

AND . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

IT'S ALREADY SLASHDOTTED.

More companies should emulate iD

[Anonymous Coward]

Releasing a working version which can be installed and experienced before purchase is both ethical and effective! What is it with upper management that they can't demonstrate either competence of confidence when it comes to development and marketing? What ever happened to building a good product and then profiting honestly? Why are so many companies developing crap and then denying the consumer the right to receive a refund or resell the product? Most software these days is just completely unreliable, overpriced crap being foisted on a captive audience, imho.

Excellent!

[Khan]

Aside from the original X-Wing trilogy, the MechWarrior series of games have always been my favorites! I can't even begin to account for all of the time I lost playing those online.

Re:Excellent!

[digitalgiblet]

You sir have excellent taste.

I'd love to get the X-Wing/Tie series updated and re-released.

For my money MechWarrior 2 was the most fun in the series. 3 and 4 were great, but 2 was special.

Looks like I'll have to go buy a joystick.

Re:Excellent!

[DJDragon79]

speaking of which I still love a good game of X-Wing Alliance

MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[Useful Wheat]

I don't know how many of you ever played Mechwarrior 4, but at its very heart it was an open source game. In Mechwarrior 4 mercenaries, you were allowed to model and add your own vehicles, weapons, and maps to the game. The Mw4 community added no less than 30 incredible mechs to the game, as well as a wide variety of vehicles and weapons that were throughly tested and balanced through extensive player testing.

It was this community effort that brought mechwarrior in line with its true battletech roots, and Microsoft gained a lot of my respect because not only did they allow it? They encouraged it, by making these extensions easy to build and distribute.

The only complaint I have is that the open source expansions broke Microsoft's expansion, and I couldn't use my WarHawk anymore. (Masakari, to you Inner Sphere Trash).

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[Buzz_Litebeer]

Note, all of those mechs were hacked into the game by mektek.net, because of this work and their work on the models they were added this way.

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[Sagara Sozou]

"Masakari, to you freebirth scum."

There, fixed it for you.

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[SavTM]

I don't know how many of you ever played Mechwarrior 4, but at its very heart it was an open source game.

For real? MechWarrior 3 was the only one I skipped as it appeared to be an obvious step down from MechWarrior 2. I was sort of dismayed when I learned that the MechWarrior franchise was bound to go the way of Halo, but I bought MechWarrior 4 and played through it. It was fun, if not very long. I played on a few public servers but I became bored quickly with the lack of certain tactics that are in the classic game and, especially, the lack of customizable mechs available.

The only complaint I have is that the open source expansions broke Microsoft's expansion, and I couldn't use my WarHawk anymore. (Masakari, to you Inner Sphere Trash).

Okay, that sounds about right. I never got into the MechWarrior 2 expansions, though I had the Ghost Bear one. I really wanted to customize the loadout myself, like you could do in the Battletech tabletop games. But are you saying I need to buy the expansion in order to make customized mechs and that nobody without the expansion can experience those mods and additionally that once you use customized mechs it actually disables the expansion content you purchased? I admit it. The fact is, I held my prejudice against expansions for games and never even considered the possibility that I could experience something more among the community because I considered it a foregone conclusion that...

Microsoft gained a lot of my respect because not only did they allow it? They encouraged it, by making these extensions easy to build and distribute.

would not happen. Even more prejudiced, I know. Still...wtf MicroSoft? Why you gotta be like that? Anyway, glad I found out. Might try this out if Mercs is included.

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[Anonymous Coward]

aff!

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[ScaledLizard]

Nothing about MW4 was free. It was MekTek's hard work that allowed the mechs to be added.

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[Anonymous Coward]

you god damned clanners

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[CronoCloud]

And when I capture you and make you my bondsman and your mech my isorla, As your first assignment, you will have to clean a 3050 Wolverine, that is painted in the colors of Clan Wolverine. I will do that solely to make you say the word "Wolverine" and if you refuse to use the word or use the term "Not-named Mech" or refuse to use contractions in speech, I'll have you shot with a gyroslug carbine and then beheaded with a vibro-katana. Just on general principles. As much as you clanners talk about how you've kept language pure, you haven't. All those words those Kerensky boys you worship added to Clan speak aren't Standard Star League English.

The only good clanner, is a dead one.

Archon Prince Victor Ian Steiner-Davion is my shepherd, he leadeth me to kill lots of Clanners.
Next stop, Strana Mechty.

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[arcsimm]

As someone who was intimately involved with that process (A couple of the 'Mechs in the NBT-Hardcore mod were modeled and textured by yours truly, and I beta-tested a couple of the MekTek packs), the Mech4 community expansions were neither easy or terribly open. The first team to reverse-engineer the game's file formats was very territorial about their work and in several cases attempted to publicly e-crucify "traitors" who leaked screenshots of stuff in beta, or passed along information on the modding tools. I recall one of their devs stalling development and threatening to remove one 'Mech from the pack every day until somebody confessed to leaking the mod tools to a third party. The drama got so bad that the guy who first cracked the game's files left that team and took his tools to one of the online leagues. You should have seen the fireworks when that happened...

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[walshy007]

For real? MechWarrior 3 was the only one I skipped as it appeared to be an obvious step down from MechWarrior 2.

Your loss, MW3 was way better than MW4, in MW4 all of the mechs feel like plastic tonka toys.

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[Taulin]

My problem with MW4 was that you couldn't create your own mech like you could in MW3. If the mercenaries game allowed that, I missed out. I only hope they still allow full customization, at least in online play with a ton limit. It's really fun going up against others to see who can build the best mech, just like in the p&p game.

Re:MW4 Mercs, FOSS In spirit

[SavTM]

Your loss, MW3 was way better than MW4, in MW4 all of the mechs feel like plastic tonka toys.

I think as a younger and more idealistic gamer I thought that boycotting game manufacturers with retarded DRM schemes (If you played MW2, you should agree that MW3's DRM scheme was retarded) would result in the elimination of DRM from the games industry...but no, it turned out that game sales fell because of pirates and not conscious decision-making on the part of myself and other disgruntled customers.

Maybe it doesn't matter now, but back in 1999 when I purchased a game if you told me I'd have to download a crack in order to play a CD and the game at the same time I'd tell you the game was broken and that it wasn't worth buying it anyway.

It was my loss, though...just makes me more pissed at SecurROM and every manufacturer who has bought into their "business model." If DRM is to protect the first two weeks of sales from piracy and otherwise only harms legitimate customers, release a patch to eliminate it after two weeks so I can buy the game! Grrr.....

Open the MW3 and MW4 game engine!

[werfu]

I really hope they'll open up the game engine for MW4 and MW3. I never been able to finish MW3 do to a nasty bug in the game :@ Anyhow, I hope they'll stick to the classic MW gameplay and it'll be a success for sure :D Well, I'll be buying!

About time!

[failedtoinit]

It's about time that a new Mechwarrior is released. It is one of my all time favorite games, wasted many many hours on the series. I can't get to the page due to my companies crappy websense, any news if this is going to come to PC or console only?

Re:About time!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's about time that a new Mechwarrior is released. It is one of my all time favorite games, wasted many many hours on the series. I can't get to the page due to my companies crappy websense, any news if this is going to come to PC or console only?

According to IGN, it's going to be on PC & 360.

Old Times

[djconrad]

I used to play MechWarrior all time time growing up! I haven't got so much enjoyment from a series for

Unseen 'Mechs?

[dunkelfalke]

So if the game is really placed during the last years of the third succession war, do we get to see the unseen 'mechs?
I mean, you can clearly see the Warhammer in the intro, but aren't the developers afraid if a lawsuit?

I'd just love to drive a Shadow hawk (Dunkelfalke being the German name for that mech)

Re:Unseen 'Mechs?

[you-nix-boy]

Nope, Catalyst Games Labs (who now have the rights for the Battletech game) have secured the rights for the Unseen again. The classic "Robotech" mechs are all available again in Battletech. http://catalystgamelabs.com/2009/06/24/catalyst-game-labs-brings-back-unseen/

Re:Unseen 'Mechs?

[Kell Bengal]

I -thought- I saw a Warhammer in TFA. I couldn't believe my eyes, and now I know it is truth. Thanks for the clarification!

The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[oogoliegoogolie]

My gods, please don't take yet another PC game that works so fantastically with the keyboard-mouse combination and 'dumb it down for the masses' that use console controls. Note, I'm not saying console gamers are dumb, just the controls are in many types of games.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[thisnamestoolong]

Oh they will -- I am certainly still excited about this game but there is no way they are going to be able to retain the complexity of the old games with an X360 controller. Not to mention the fact that the video game market has blown up to a much larger percentage of the greater population, most of whom are total idiots.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[HannethCom]

No, not dumbed down, just simplified. The controls will be simplified down so much to make you feel like an old time British person. (Like you have a stick stuck up your butt)
You just have to hit, A A B AA C to fire your main weapon. Other weapons will require a little more complex system. *sarcasm*

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[ComputerGeek01]

Come on now Armored Core does VERY well on consoles IMO, and I don't care who you are that series is twice as complex as Mechwarrior ever was! Don't get me wrong I grew up on Mechwarrior and would not have given AC a chance if it weren't for Mechwarrior 2 laying the ground work. I'm just saying that you don't have to dumb anything down just because you feel like there aren't enough buttons.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[Divide By Zero]

I'd settle for an adapter for my Steel Battalion controller. Thing's twice as complicated as any keyboard I've owned and has a light-up, plastic-shielded eject button. Nerdgasm.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[Fireye]

This point is addressed directly in the interview that IGN did.
http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1002164p1.html

IGN: That actually brings me to my next question. As far as PC gamers were concerned, part of the appeal of controlling your mech in the MechWarrior franchise was feeling like you were in control of your mech, having access to multiple cockpit commands at one time with your keyboard and your mouse. How are you planning to keep this classic control scheme feel, and will you be adding any new elements for your mechs, especially now that you want to create this full cockpit experience?

Russ Bullock: First and foremost, in this day and age and this time, we've all played the PC games in the past and absolutely loved them. But certainly going forward, just out of necessity and because we think we can, we're definitely very focused also on the Xbox 360. So we're very focused on the console standpoint moving forward. Now, we still need to work out a lot with our chosen publishing partner, so some of these questions will become answered, but I think that Jordan and I are in agreement that we want to make a MechWarrior game.

The MechAssault games were interesting in the role they played inside the universe for the consoles at the time, but we feel the technology is there that we can make a true MechWarrior game, a MechWarrior experience on both the Xbox 360 and the PC and not lose anything from that true MechWarrior feeling. We feel confident obviously in the PC and its control scheme that can be realized because it's been done before. But for the Xbox 360, we've spent a lot of thought and a lot of time in playing around with the controller and finding ways to give the same level of control in the way that you throttle, in the way that you turn and move, use your jump jets, and everything that gives you that MechWarrior experience that doesn't turn it into a power-up pickup sort of arcade style game. So that is something that we're spending a lot of time on â" all the answers aren't there yet, but we want to make a MechWarrior experience and we feel like we can do it both on the 360 and the PC.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[Cor-cor]

That was kind of my first thought, but the more I think about it, the more I feel like this could be a tremendous poster child for Project Natal. If it's at all like advertised, they could throw in a cheap fake plastic controller or something, maybe even have you map your own equipment to controls and get all the control of a PC game on the console. Or maybe use the standard controller in conjunction with motion capture. Hell, I'd definitely spend sixty bucks to rain destruction from a Mech that mimicked my movements.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[Fallingcow]

Come on now Armored Core does VERY well on consoles IMO, and I don't care who you are that series is twice as complex as Mechwarrior ever was!

LOLWUT?

It's a bit faster-paced. The customization of your machine is (in some ways) a bit more involved.

The actual fighting is painfully simplified compared to Mech 2, and it still struggles to fit on the gamepad. I hate, hate, hate that if my targeting computer gets knocked out (and a stiff breeze can cause that to happen) I have to aim manually--which is fine--but it's impossible to both aim and shoot at the same time (right thumb both looks and fires weapons, so you have to aim, move your thumb to the button, fire, move your thumb back, adjust, move thumb to button, fire, etc), meaning that you're just boned if your opponent isn't standing still or moving in a straight line. This would be a non-issue with a keyboard+mouse--hell, in Mech2 the norm was manual targeting for non-missiles, and even those you had to intentionally dead-fire sometimes.

Trying to keep all the battle functions of Mech 2 present would result in far, far worse overcrowding of the controller, assuming you could do it at all (I doubt it). AC4 barely pulls it off, and even it would be better on a PC.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[jafiwam]

It is my belief that the best Mech control setup that ever occurred was as follows:

Primary hand has the mouse when needed

Left hand has forward/back thrust, etc. controls

Twistable Joystick has up down, waist roll, and torso turn (Sidewinder Joystick)

Hat controls and keyboard, mouse, that weird thrust lever controller of the X-45 series (Saitek?) never ever matched up with the sidewinder joystick.

I have been looking for a new game to excuse buying a new rig, so this one might be it, but I just wish there were good and ROBUST twist joysticks that could handle play like the Sidewinder did.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[theanorak]

Eh? Keyboard-mouse? Multibutton joystick, I think.

Besides, to quote a poster on rockpapershotgun.com, Dominic White:

"Just reminding people that the 360 pad has four full analogue axes, two half-axes, and 14 buttons to play with. That is [i]plenty[/i] for a Mechwarrior game."

I'd suggest that a 360 controller would be *better* than mouse+keys for controlling a 'mech.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[bloodhawk]

My gods, please don't take yet another PC game that works so fantastically with the keyboard-mouse combination and 'dumb it down for the masses' that use console controls. Note, I'm not saying console gamers are dumb, just the controls are in many types of games.

huh? Mech Warrior games have nearly always been best played with a joystick, especially multi axis joysticks, many of which were built specifically with mech warrior games in mind, keyboard and mouse was ALWAYS a distant second. Back in the day I spent a fortune on various, at the time state of the art, multi axis joysticks to get the best out of Mech games. Now I hate console games but the 360 has more analog multi axis joysticks and buttons on it than just about anything in the market. Personally I will get this on the PC and if it is good then I will probably be buying a joystick again for the first time in about 5 years.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[Glonoinha]

The 360 joysticks have about a quarter inch throw to them, whereas regular joysticks have half a foot of throw to them. This is the big kicker.
The 360 joysticks have no mass, no inertia, and no resistance to movement (the triggers are pretty nice, however). Real joysticks have all of the above (although the triggers are usually binary.)
The 360 controllers don't have a 'set it and leave it' for throttle. Most regular joysticks do.

Add to the joystick / keyboard crew the precision of a mouse for aiming and honestly - there's no comparison. Port any console first person shooter over to the PC and let people use the mouse for control and they will completely own it. Don't take my word for it - put a crew of Quake 3 or 4 (or TFC2 or whatever) using mice / keyboards up against a crew using the 360 controllers (they are available for the PC) and let me know how that turns out.

In short - if the game designers wrap the controls around a 360 controller and don't do a completely second set of controls for keyboard / mouse / joystick - I'm guessing it's gonna suck. But that is just the opinion of a consumer that's been playing BattleTech since before computers were powerful enough to play multiplayer video games.

Re:The emphasis on the xbox 360 scares me.

[theanorak]

Yes, that's fair. I have an old Microsoft Sidewinder FF2 which I loved to use with MW games -- not the most accurate setup, I know, but the immersion was (to me at least) well worth the lost accuracy and kills. A decent joystick setup *is* better than a 360 controller.

The OP was talking about keyboard and mouse though -- which leaves you with analog torso control and digital everything else -- so I'd still go with a 360 controller if my choice was either that or m&k alone. I don't think my mere 10 years of playing makes that any less valid.

It's about time

[AdmiralAl]

I'm really glad to see that they are finally coming out with a new MechWarrior game. Being a veteran of all the previous iterations, I've been longing for a new one for quite some time. The fact that they are re-releasing 4 for free is also very good news. 4 was certainly not my favorite, but it definitely gives me an excuse to ignore my family for awhile until the new game is released.

Distributed for what?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it distributed? It's almost as if Candlejack had something to do with the

Future "MechCommander" games?

[hiryuu]

I'll echo the sentiments of a few others here with my appreciation for the classic MW games over the console-appropriate MechAssault, but I never hear anyone mention the MechCommander titles. Any speculation (or inside info) on the possibility that we'd see any more in the overhead-strategy vein?

Re:Future "MechCommander" games?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they mentioned Shadowrun and the possibility of picking that up.

Based on that, I would imagine after they release this MW, they'll try their hand at SR, possibly another MW, and only then might we see what MC2 should have been. I think most of the MC community would agree that MC/MCX was far superior than MC2!

Seriously?!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been a big Battletech fan since 1989. That video looked like absolute shit. Whatever team came up with it needs to be fired. I won't say that it's as big of an abortion as JJ Trek, but it seriously sucked ass. In no way does this make me want to play the game.

Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

MechWarrior is great and all but its often frustratingly slow controls makes it a snore fest.

I hope they improve on this major flaw. Its the one aspect of MechWarrior that hurt it.

I much prefer the faster paced, and stylistic movements of Zone of the Enders 2.

Mech games need to be fun, not just cool ideas that are "slow and boring" just to be "simulation like"

Glad to see this posted in Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

Who developed and owns Mechwarrior 4? I don't see the name mentioned on this forum. Hmmmmmm.

Re:Glad to see this posted in Slashdot

[Gwarsbane]

It was developed by Microsoft and others, but Smith and Tinker now have all the rights.

Re:Glad to see this posted in Slashdot

[JSBiff]

I thought it was *published* by Microsoft, but developed by someone else? Isn't that how Microsoft usually does games?

Re:Glad to see this posted in Slashdot

[dunkelfalke]

FASA interactive, which then belonged to Microsoft.

In related news....

[NerveGas]

Joystick manufacturers expect, once again, to be able to make a profit!

Re:In related news....

[Vamman]

So true!

Re:In related news....

[failedtoinit]

Funny you should mention joysticks. One of my first thoughts after seeing this article was "where is my joystick, ah hell I'll just buy a new one!"

Re:In related news....

[JSBiff]

Do the MechWarrior games work well with a PlayStation-2 style controller? (I have a Logitech USB controller which is basically a PS2 controller). Or do you need some other type of joystick to work well with the MechWarrior games? I don't really like the idea of having to plunk down $20-60 for another HID if I can avoid it.

Re:In related news....

[Manfre]

I finally have a reason to wipe the dust off my sidewinder 2!

Re:In related news....

[Fallingcow]

Do the MechWarrior games work well with a PlayStation-2 style controller? (I have a Logitech USB controller which is basically a PS2 controller).

Fuck no. Sorry.

Every played X-Wing or TIE Fighter? It's like that, but instead of flying a starfighter you pilot a giant robot. To do well you need to be able to instantly arm any one of 4-10 weapons (plus some hotkeys for combinations of them), control direction of movement and torso orientation, control jump jets (in a few different directions), run coolant flushes, control targeting systems (there's several more buttons right there), issue commands to allies, change your speed (forward and reverse), etc.

You'd assign maybe 1/2 of the commands you needed (not all possible ones, just the ones you really need) before you ran out of buttons on the controller.

Re:In related news....

[JSBiff]

Uhh, what about using the keyboard for some of the other stuff? So, PS2-style controller + keyboard? Seems like that could maybe work? Or not. I'll just have to experiment and see what I can come up with.

Re:In related news....

[NerveGas]

Who DOESN'T think of a joystick when they hear the word "Mechwarrior"?

Re:In related news....

[Fallingcow]

The trouble is you need quick access to most things. The key is that you need to be able to hit commands while moving and aiming. Taking one hand off the controller to hit keyboard buttons would work for a few things, but not for any of the commands that you need to be able to hit without interrupting your maneuvering of the vehicle, which is most of them.

It would be more likely to work than trying to go controller-only, though.

Re:In related news....

[CAIMLAS]

No, most probably not. It might be possible, but...

Mechwarrior 2 came about when the average PC joystick was still pretty privative. I don't know if it was because of MechWarrior 2, or simply a coincidence (combined with a heightened emergence of a lot of flight sims at the time), but the Thrustmaster joysticks came to prevailance (and quality) directly after Mechwarrior 2 came out. Joysticks which came before were too primitive (without losing one's mind, at least): they simply didn't have enough buttons or axises.

For starters, the bare minimum needed to play with a joystick exclusively is one with 4 axises, at least one of which could not have a "bounce back" to center (for the throttle). That's not counting the additional 2 axises you'd need if you wanted to use jumpjets. Then you would need, at least, 8 or so additional buttons (which would need to be configured based on your gameplay method): group/chain fire toggle, fire group selection toggle, coolant eject, jumpjet "jump" (as opposed to using the JJs to skirt enemy fire), 2-3 for targeting and nav, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

The basic idea of the premise is that a PS2/3 controller isn't capable of playing the Mechwarrior 2 - 4 games with a traditional 2-handed gamepad - you'll have to keep switching back and forth between the gamepad and the keyboard to get the full range of functionality.

Oh, and expect to pay $50+ for a joystick worth having that is capable of effectively playing the Mechwarrior games: 6+1 axis, 12+ or so buttons (at least three of which being triggers) would be enough for keyboardless playing, I fathom. The only way you could do it w/ a gamepad is with modal keys, and I'm not sure how you'd do that with their existing engines.

Re:In related news....

[CronoCloud]

Ha ha, no. Go find a copy of the PSone version of MechWarrior 2. Try playing it with the standard-at-that-time pre dual-shock digital PSone controller. Not very fun. Now play it with that big ass PSone Dual Analog Joystick (the big one that looks like a flightstick), much much better, and that's how it's meant to be played. Because you needed to have easy access to those functions while turning/moving/changing speed and the BIG joystick could do it.

 

Re:In related news....

[CronoCloud]

Y'know, this might be a circumstance where voice control would come in handy for some functions. Instead of a button for jump jets, just wear a headset and say jumpjets.

Re:In related news....

[OzPhIsH]

I can't wait to SAY "Artoo...that, that stabilizer's broken loose again! See if you can't lock it down!"

All of MechWarrior 4 will be free

[Gwarsbane]

Everything, will be free. Vengence, Blackknight, the packs and Mercs. It will also include a whole bunch of maps and MekTek's own MekPaks. It will all be one download more then likely via bit torrent, the ISO image maybe as large as 3 or 4 gigs.

Re:All of MechWarrior 4 will be free

[gknoy]

If this made installation in Vista easier, I am going to be thrilled. MW4 was one of the few series of that game that I felt got it "right". I liked MW2/3, and their campaigns were great, but I really enjoyed the way that mech chassis actually had a flavor in MW4. Now, if only my Uziel could be competitive for the rest of the game ...

Damn, I may have to buy a new joystick and play this.

Re:All of MechWarrior 4 will be free

[theTerribleRobbo]

[Citation Needed]

Re:All of MechWarrior 4 will be free

[drinkypoo]

In honor of BattleTech's 25th anniversary, Smith & Tinker has authorized MekTek.net and MekTek Studios to distribute MechWarrior 4 (along with its expansion packs) completely free.

That's as much as I can verify... but let's face it, everything but Vengeance is an expansion.

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Yosho]

MechWarrior is great and all but its often frustratingly slow controls makes it a snore fest.

I hope they improve on this major flaw. Its the one aspect of MechWarrior that hurt it.

No, that's exactly why many people loved the MechWarrior games so much. They (the good ones, at least), are not arcadey action games, they are giant robot combat simulators. Hundred-ton hunks of metal covered in weapons are not quick, agile acrobats; they are tanks with legs. The more realistic behavior of the mechs makes combat more about strategy and tactics than twitch reflexes.

If that's the kind of mech game you want, there are other ones out there that cater to you (ZoE). Please don't try to change MechWarrior into something it's not.

who needs a subject anyways?

[Well-Fed Troll]

Can we get this released on STEAM?

Re:who needs a subject anyways?

[Drone69]

Or preferably Impulse? That way we don't have to need an internets connection to play. Yes, I know Steam provides the ability to disconnect from the net but in order to do so you have to be online in the first place! The game library may be not as huge but Impulse > Steam.

That actually *is* a good question

[Anonymous Coward]

To a question like that my first reaction was "RTFA! I am sure it is explained there.". Then I RTFA and... It wasn't. Then I followed the link to Battletech and didn't quickly find it there either. Then I googled for "Quake 3 free release", got to wikipedia and... Still found no mention of what this magical distribution method is.

Re:That actually *is* a good question

[quadrox]

you must be new here...

There are lots of good Mchwarrior clones too

[Anonymous Coward]

This is pretty god news, but lately I have been enjoying a more modern Mechwarrior clone on instantaction.com which provides all the desired mech game play. It's a good tide-me-over while waiting to see if MW5 lives up to expectations (MW4 is ok but a bit outdated for my tastes).

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people enjoy feeling the weight and scale of the hunks of metal they are piloting. These folks will play the MechWarrior games for their simulation aspects.

Others enjoy fast-paced killing in robots. These folks will play MechAssault.

Other others enjoy the strategic aspects of commanding a lance of 'Mechs. These folks enjoy MechCommander. (An aside: I also wish another game in this series would be made.)

To each their own.

Woo Hoo!

[Theodore]

First we get the unseens back,
now we get a new MW game, with the previous one FREE?!?
SCHWEET!!

How many games hit a 25 year anniversary?
Now, how many hit it with a "we're not just here, we're not just expanding; but we're back, with 16 different kinds of vengance".

Hail Loren Coleman
Hail Randall Bills
Hail Herbie the love munch!

(For the unknowing, Loren is pretty much head author, Randall was the chief BT developer up until '07, now it's Herb Habeas, lord of nuclear weaponry.)
I hope I can hit gen con this year, this all fucking rocks.

Re:Woo Hoo!

[Anonymous Coward]

well Coleman took the rains in the later years but Michael Stackpole did a lot of work raising that tentpole beforehand.

Sweet!

[Malenx]

Man, I loved being the super annoying guy who decked his mech out with all LRM 5's and just ran around ducking behind hills, shooting 1 weapon at a time in an infinite row.

Didn't get much kills, but man did it piss people off. >.

Yay!

[Drone69]

Rocking good news and justifies my recent joystick purchase.

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Kell Bengal]

Let's hope a Mechcommander sequel is a sequel to MC, not MC2... that abortion of a game needs to be erased from history. The original Mechcommander was fun and polished. It was dreadfully underrated.

ADL league anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh the good old days in the Astral Dominion League. Anyone else play in a league as Clan or IS? Clan Hells Horses all the way!

Wait wait wait...

[mewsenews]

I'm looking at these announcements and they're saying the game is going to be released "for free". I do not see what this has to do with Quake 3 at all, or even how the two releases are similar. Quake 3 the game was never released "for free" unless you are counting Quake Live.

I think the submitter may have fucked up.

Re:Wait wait wait...

[Sheafification]

I think they mean the usual id procedure of open sourcing old engines. You can find the source, as well as the last supported release version, on id's site.

Re:Wait wait wait...

[Sheafification]

Oh wait, I just learned to read a little better. That point release version requires a full install of Quake3 to be present already. Oops.

Re:Wait wait wait...

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering the submitter is the owner/administrator of Mektek.net, I highly doubt that.

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Jedi Alec]

If that's the kind of mech game you want, there are other ones out there that cater to you (ZoE). Please don't try to change MechWarrior into something it's not.

The IGN article mentions pilots becoming more adept at piloting specific (types of?) mechs as they spend more time in them, so I guess the GP could just opt for becoming a master of the light scout mech. iirc those moved, turned and jumped around at pretty high speeds.

a few features

[roc97007]

I stopped playing video games after Mechwarrior 4. Partly because I had other things to do (like raise a child) but partly because I haven't been able to get interested in computer games since.

With a new Mechwarrior out, I will probably go out and get a modern joystick and give it a shot. I'm especially glad they went back to the Clans, as they had the more interesting mechs and backstory.

I'm hoping that we see some new abilities in the new game. I always thought it was odd that in the 31st century you fired weapons by manually lining up a hood ornament on your enemy, when 20th century technology has object recognition and automatic targeting. Or, at least, some kind of helmet tracking. What, did computer technology get lost in the intervening years?

In a slightly different vein, it seems like in all that time someone would have thought to weld on a few weapons backwards on the chassis. (With associated hardpoint and weight penalties, of course.) A lot of knife fights depended solely on how fast you could turn your chassis to bring weapons to bear. This doesn't seem reasonable in the 31st century. I want to be able to glance in my rearview mirror and squeeze off a few rounds or missiles at that mech sneaking up behind me. Or -- this would be cool -- have the arms be articulate enough to temporarily point backwards.

It should be possible in this day and age to have the mechs be as fully articulate as the backstory led us to believe.

Re:a few features

[Yosho]

I'm especially glad they went back to the Clans, as they had the more interesting mechs and backstory.

That's not quite right -- the game is being set in 3015, which is before the Clan invasion, and so it's unlikely you'll see any Clan technology in the game.

What, did computer technology get lost in the intervening years?

Actually, yes; in the BattleTech universe, centuries of warfare have caused the loss of quite a bit of scientific knowledge and technology. That's why Clan technology was so much more advanced than the Inner Sphere stuff.

Re:a few features

[dunkelfalke]

Well, actually there are homing missiles in the BattleTech world - Arrow 4 comes in mind - but they are considered way to expensive for usage in the constant warfare. There also are NARC homing beacon, Artemis fire control system and last but not least the listen-kill missiles which homed to the electronic noise of a mech but rendered useless by ECM gear.

Re:a few features

[theanorak]

There were also a number of 'mechs in the Battletech universe that featured rear-facing weapons -- for example, I think standard atlas (7k?) featured a pair of rear-facing medium lasers. I seem to remember there was also a 'mech which could shoulder rotate it's arms sufficiently to aim backwards. I suspect that they had difficult making a control scheme for this which wasn't deemed "too complex".

Re:a few features

[CAIMLAS]

That's not quite right -- the game is being set in 3015, which is before the Clan invasion, and so it's unlikely you'll see any Clan technology in the game.

WHich is, upon reflection, really pretty shitty and likely indicative of how customizable the weapon loadouts on the mechs will be. That was one of the things that made Mechwarrior 2 so awesome: it was damn customizable. Which would you rather have, an Cougar or a Jenner? Yeah, I'll take the Cougar, please!

While the MechCommander games largely sucked, that was one key aspect about them: you upgraded from IS to Clan hardware when you could, for a number of reasons: better designs (more maneuverable, usually), more weapon points, and omnipoints instead of hardwired points which could only take 1 or 2 weapon types.

Re:a few features

[roc97007]

> That's not quite right -- the game is being set in 3015, which is before the Clan invasion, and so it's unlikely you'll see any Clan technology in the game.

That sucks. The clans were cool. I miss my timberwolf. Why this fascination with the inner sphere? Are there trademark issues? If it's a true reboot, you ought to start in Wolf Clan, dammit.

> Actually, yes; in the BattleTech universe, centuries of warfare have caused the loss of quite a bit of scientific knowledge and technology. That's why Clan technology was so much more advanced than the Inner Sphere stuff.

Right, but even the super-advanced Clan stuff had you line up your shots by hand. Star travel, cloning, compact nuclear power, beam weapons, particle weapons, compact rail guns, effective anti-missile defenses, (which has to have some pretty sophisticated electronics) giant robots with articulate arms, and you shoot by... turning your mech so the hood ornament lines up with your opponant... don't forget to lead him a little... you have to guess how much because this super-advanced 31st century killing machine doesn't have no frikkin targeting electronics. Bleh.

Re:a few features

[dunkelfalke]

clans have better targeting systems alright but they also had their share of devastating civil wars. it is actually how clans were founded - 600 loyal warriors against a couple of millions of rebels.

the fascination with the inner sphere has its reasons, though. mechs on 3025er rules aren't gunboats like clan machines are, so the fire power is much more balanced. also direct attacks (using mech fists or death from above) and ducking make more sense. clans do neither. they just stand there and shoot at you (and get shot in the process) until either their machine or their opponents' mech dies.

also back in 3025 you could defend a planet with two lances (that is 8 mechs) and infantry support. when the clan invasion came mech war changed to pure battle of material and thus got very boring.

Re:a few features

[dunkelfalke]

yep. archer and wolfhound had rear facing mlasers, too.

rifleman is the mech which can rotate its arms to aim backwards.

Re:a few features

[Anonymous Coward]

Should have ended your post one sentence shorter. The Clans are an offshoot of the Inner Sphere, descended from the same dark-age civilization. Their technology advanced more rapidly than the Inner Sphere because of their military culture and the constant state of warfare that became the accepted norm for their society.

You may be thinking of ComStar, the Inner Sphere organization, which is said to hoard technological artifacts.

The key point to remember in all this is that the only reason why Mechs exist at all, being the enormous testaments to conventional warfare they are, is because -nobody- remembers how to make nukes or other means of mass destruction. Otherwise the concept of fielding armies of gigantic war machines would be wholly impractical.

Re:a few features

[kenok]

For Clan lovers, the Wolfs Dragoons are there (mentioned, in the interview with Weisman) - which are essentially Clan spies.

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Creepy Crawler]

I personally liked piloting a 30 ton mech with a MASC, engines cranked up, no armor, and armed with light lasers.

I'd run something like 300 km/s while literally charging at your side. Good luck with your 55 ton mech turning around to even see me.

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Anonymous Coward]

Completely agree! Though I wouldn't get my hopes up until they release a second MW...

Welp, Time for new hardware.

[Psyko]

The first Mechwarrior was what caused me to buy my first EGA card.

Mechwarrior 2 pushed me to buy my first 3D accelerator (was a voodoo). I think also a 3 axis force feedback joystick for that one too.

3 I don't remember much, although I have the cd still, 4 was pretty good although I really missed the just being able totally overhaul a mech however you wanted and the keep going forever contract model from 1.

Anyway, this should be sweet, it's about time for a new version.

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[SuiteSisterMary]

Or go find a copy of Heavy Gear 2; one of the finest 'power armour' paradigm simulations.

Better yet, go find a copy of Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri, which *is* the finest Power Armour sim ever. Too bad it's circa 1996.

Best game I got for $1.24

[lordofthechia]

Back when Office Depot still had their 155% price guarantee, Best Buy threw Mechwarrior on sale for something like $14.99 while Office Depot still showed it at 39.99. Armed with about $20 in cash each, maps with all the Office Depots in town, and a Best Buy ad we set out, cleaning out all the copies of Mechwarrior 4 for just $1.24 each after the absurdly high price guarantee.

Also that same week CompUSA had put Riven on sale for 9.99 vs $29.99 at Office Depot (so it was free after the 155% price guarantee). They got rid of that 155% price guarantee after that. EVERYBODY got a copy of Riven and Mechwarrior for Christmas. It was great (and confusing for some)!

hopefully the tweaking will be within reason

[jollyreaper]

On the console, Armored Core is considered a tweaker's delight but there's just too many options of marginal difference. I like the broad categories of adding armor, trading armor for speed, etc, but Armored Core took it to the point where you needed a PhD in Fanwank to come up with anything.

The thing that never made any sense to me with the Battletech setting is everyone runs a personal mech and few units shared two mechs of the same type. How in the hell do you run supply lines like that? Ok, maybe the merc outfits in the boonies would be scraping together a mixed team but you'd think the major Houses would operate uniform units simply to keep the supply chain sensible.

Re:hopefully the tweaking will be within reason

[CronoCloud]

Ok, maybe the merc outfits in the boonies would be scraping together a mixed team but you'd think the major Houses would operate uniform units simply to keep the supply chain sensible.

Houses did operate more uniform units. it's even said that some Mechs are extremely uncommon and that most units use only a few. For example, Federated Suns units are heavy with Rifleman mechs. While the Crapellans have lots of Cataphracts.

Some mechs, even if they look different, share components and have similar internal structure. For example, the classic Fusigon Longtooth was a common PPC on many mechs.

This is one reason why Omnimechs took over in the clans' because it simplified logistics. Sure you can replace a damaged Fusigon Longtooth with a Lords Light PPC, but it takes a good tech quite some time. While, with an omnimech, you can just remove and replace even between mechs of different masses.

Re:hopefully the tweaking will be within reason

[drinkypoo]

The thing that never made any sense to me with the Battletech setting is everyone runs a personal mech and few units shared two mechs of the same type. How in the hell do you run supply lines like that? Ok, maybe the merc outfits in the boonies would be scraping together a mixed team but you'd think the major Houses would operate uniform units simply to keep the supply chain sensible.

Try playing Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries or Mechwarrior 4: Mercenaries... if you don't get shot up you can run whatever you want, but if you do, you'll be running anything you can find for sale, or as field salvage.

I may still have some of the old mech manuals for Battletech... The Inner Sphere 'mechs typically came with a few loadouts listed, and a description of where the couple of [rare] alternate versions were fielded. Only mercenaries and elites would normally ever carry an alternate loadout not mentioned in the technical readouts.

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

Its all sci fi. Why cant the robots be agile? Would that be tactically more intelligent to design, rather than a slow lumbering machine that costs lots of money and is easy to destroy since it has very little mobility?

An M1 Abrams tank is quite fast in real life because mobility is just as important as armor and shelling targets. It needs to move!

If they could make a tank faster in real life they would do it. Since this is Sci Fi, cant we have it both ways?

I understand what you're saying though. I just found mech warrior too slow at times.

How about Interstate 76?

[Zaphod-AVA]

Interstate 76 was based on the Mechwarrior engine, and I still believe it's the best game ever made. With Mechwarrior free, is there a chance for an I76 revival? I waited from Autoduel to I76... don't make me wait that long again!

Re:How about Interstate 76?

[ihaveamo]

Amen - I76 rocked. A mix of 70's funk music, 'fros, and tricked out muscle cars covered with weapons?. Brings a tear to my eye.

Re:How about Interstate 76?

[Glonoinha]

I have forgotten how much I actually loved that game. To get that much enjoyment out of a game that built vehicles out of what - like twelve polygons - is a testament to excellent game design with an eye for playability, not glamor effects.

Re:How about Interstate 76?

[Some Bitch]

People don't talk about I82 around me though, it's filed with Blues Brothers 2000 in the "Things That Didn't Happen" section.

Your emphasis on keyboard mouse scares me.

[t0qer]

One of the primary reasons I disliked doom/quake was I knew it meant the death to other forms of input for video games for a long time to come. Ever since Thresh kicked everyone's butt at doom and later quake, I knew the keyboard mouse was here to stay.

The problem for me was I liked games that were 6FOA(6 Freedom of Axis)Descent being the most notable. At the time of Doom/Descent there was a lot of innovation for PC gaming. The Voodoo1 3d card came out, there was the spaceorb3d, the logitech mouseman, and various other input devices made for 6FOA type gameplay. Microsoft's Sidewinder joystick was wildly popular with the descent crowd (although I always preferred my thrustmaster)

I always felt like the only reason the kb/mouse was so popular was because it was what came with a PC by default. Linear plane FPS games only need a kb/mouse to give the player the maximum control they needed without having to spend extra on fancy controllers.

Linear FPS games stifled controller innovation for a long time. Up until the Wii there wasn't really anything new or innovative for 3d control.

Most innovative controller of all time? Steel Battalion controller.
http://www.steelbattalion.org/controller.php

Pure awesome.

Re:Your emphasis on keyboard mouse scares me.

[PainKilleR-CE]

The Descent series plays perfectly well with a keyboard + mouse, too. In fact, that may have been the only way I ever played those games, and once you set up the controls to account for the extra freedom of movement, there were only slight differences in handling the game. Even Freespace works well this way. You basically just add two more keys to the movement side of things and you get your extra dimension of movement with few worries.

What killed the joystick market was pretty much the loss of what kept it thriving in the first place: the combat flight sim market.

When every joystick company had to release new sticks for USB and the flight sims were no longer being produced (and the companies were getting bought up or sued into oblivion in the case of Gravis), it was pretty much the end of everyone but Microsoft. When MS became tied to the console market, they pretty much dropped everything and said the 360 controller was good enough for everyone.

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[CronoCloud]

Other others enjoy the strategic aspects of commanding a lance of 'Mechs. These folks enjoy MechCommander.

What about MegaMek?

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Yosho]

Its all sci fi. Why cant the robots be agile?

Because, if "It's all sci-fi", why can't the robots be ten million light years tall and capable of altering probability and creating matter? That's super cool and all, but it doesn't fit in with the BattleTech universe.

An M1 Abrams tank is quite fast in real life because mobility is just as important as armor and shelling targets. It needs to move!

They can move quickly once they get going, but they're far from agile. What you want is an M1 Abrams tank that maneuvers like a motorcycle.

Since this is Sci Fi, cant we have it both ways?

Because the target audience here thinks that's not fun.

nice FMV but...

[smash]

... what is the actual game like? Sucks these days, people put out a trailer of the intro sequence, and game review sites do a "detailed analysis" (come on, get your hand off it guys) when really this is nothing to do with the actual game engine.

I'm keen to see what its like, having been a fan of all the previous games, but seriously.... FMV sequence is not much to get excited about.

Re:nice FMV but...

[Yosho]

Unless they are totally lying in the actual interview, that's footage of the game engine, not FMV. Sure, it's probably scripted rather than a video of somebody actually playing, but you can still expect the actual game to look like that.

I just wanted to add a WTF????

[Anonymous Coward]

They brought back a stylized warhammer, which is cool, but they took the fsckin hands off the atlas? I mean C'mon, what made the atlas scary was that it looked a giant armor plated human with a skullike face. Getting rid of the hands makes it look like 'yet another gun platform.'

Just my 2c.

The screenies are pretty impressive though.

Re:Zone of the Enders 2 MechWarrior

[Chrontius]

And thrusters. Don't forget the thrusters.

In Mech2, I played with a DC Urbanmech, four jumpjets, and a bank of 12 small lasers (best damage/heat ratio in the game). Ground-effect skimming with jumpjets to get in close, then unleash the Lucifer system into the fighting face of that Daishi's armor... I don't care if it's an assault mech, two shots in the same spot would put down the heaviest armor in the game.

Maneuverability, not so much. Speed? Bring that back!