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The Music Industry's Crisis Writ Large

The NY Times has an opinion piece that makes starkly clear the financial decline of the music industry. It's accompanied by an infographic that cleverly renders the drop-off. The latest culprit accelerating the undoing of the music business is free, legal online music streaming. "Since music sales peaked in 1999, the value of those sales, after adjusting for inflation, has dropped by more than half. At that rate, the industry could be decimated before Madonna's 60th birthday. ... 13- to 17-year-olds acquired 19 percent less music in 2008 than they did in 2007. CD sales among these teenagers were down 26 percent and digital purchases were down 13 percent. ... [T]he percentage of 14- to 18-year-olds who regularly share files dropped by nearly a third from December 2007 to January 2009. On the other hand, two-thirds of those teens now listen to streaming music 'regularly' and nearly a third listen to it every day."

554 comments

  1. Let it die. by FlyingSquidStudios · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The words 'music' and 'industry' were never meant to go together. Music should come from the heart, not the wallet. This idea that you can become wealthy by being a musician is a new one and we've suffered for it.

    1. Re:Let it die. by sopssa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The words 'music' and 'industry' were never meant to go together. Music should come from the heart, not the wallet. This idea that you can become wealthy by being a musician is a new one and we've suffered for it.

      You might like to come live in the current world. Like everything else in entertainment (movies, games, comics whatever), music is entertainment and professionally made. It requires time, effort and money. Just as stupid RIAA's lawsuits against studenst are, pirates reasoning to get content for free are too. Music *IS* industry. You dont get around that as much as you'd like to deny it. Or well, if you like to, stop listening to commercially produced music and go listen in the streets; they're nice sometimes and you can tip those who you think are good. But if you're against commercial music, the answer isn't to pirate it. Answer is not to listen to it all. You're just being hypocrisy and making excuses for pirating if you still listen to them.

      And now besides the point, record labels aren't there just to rip people off. Artists actually need them. They actually find the artists that could be something, provide them studio time and sponsor them so they can get their job done, help making the music videos, doing promotion, making sure the actual product is somewhat quality (yeah, quality can be argued!) to actually delivering the products to retailers, tv and radio stations and whatever other places. Lots of times people forget that record labels do lots of other work too and sponsor the bands, and they're not there just to collect money forgefully.

      This is why I think the record labels will continue to exist and will be used by artists. Yes, I said used. Its not necessary for artists to use them, noone force's them to. But lets face it, all that usually needs lots of money and time and work. Not a single person can usually do so much, but go work with record labels so they can handle all the other stuff and artists can spend the time on their core thing -- making music.

    2. Re:Let it die. by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No shit.

      The latest culprit accelerating the undoing of the music business is free, legal online music streaming.

      Counterpoint: the real culprit accelerating the undoing of the music business is:

      - anticompetitive business practices (price fixing, etc) that have given potential customers a sour attitude towards music labels
      - destruction of diversity in radio broadcasting (something the music industry ironically pushed for) via the death of media ownership regulations mid-'90s

      And finally, the main reason:

      - replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits. Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct. And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to.

    3. Re:Let it die. by jackal40 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Personally, I haven't bought a new album in over three years. And no, I'm not using p2p or any other source to get them illegally. I haven't heard of anything worth listening (much less buying) in some time. If my daughter hadn't given me the last Rush album, I would have bought that, but there just isn't anything worth listening to anymore.

      I don't even listen to the radio in the car, just play a CD. Sorry record execs, but your demise cannot come soon enough for me. The RIAA and the MPAA need to go the way of the dinosaurs. JFDA

      --
      The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth. (Stonewall Jackson
    4. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hi, the 1950's called and they want their arguments back. I know a few musicians who can afford their own studio setups that are just as good as anything you'll find in the 'major labels'. Studio time isn't that big of a barrier to entry anymore.

      So do you need big labels for quality? Well, you have me there, no indie label could match the musical genius of somebody like say, Brittney Spears.

      The "industry" the GP refers to is the big labels that screw over everybody -- artists and listeners -- in the guise that there's barriers or a scarcity that's just not there anymore. Those are the companies that go away.

    5. Re:Let it die. by je+ne+sais+quoi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And now besides the point, record labels aren't there just to rip people off. Artists actually need them.

      Before advent of easy recording, just about every family that wanted to appear civilized owned a piano or some other musical instrument. That is, people used to play music themselves. I personally record my own music for my family and listen to a lot of bands of friends or ones that play small venues. You know, I listen to music that people can actually play. I'll never forget in high school going to one concert for some bands I liked quite a bit (U2 with the Pixes opening) and realizing that they sounded absolutely awful live and that the sound on their records has been manipulated to the point of being false. That was the day I stopped believing that the "current world" was the best solution. I don't need the RIAA, I can keep playing my own music and traditional, non-copyrighted music to my heart's content. I'm not alone in this. Don't believe me? Go spend a few hours on youtube.

      --
      Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the war room!
    6. Re:Let it die. by cdrguru · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The primary benefit that record companies provide to the artist today is promotion. Without promotion, most artists will remain in some kind of local niche. A few might get national attention for doing something that gathers lots of publicity - like running through a public park naked or something like that. That is about it.

      What people do not understand is the full spectrum of promotion. Kill off the record companies and promotion dies. With it go a lot of magazines that music promotion is supporting. FM Radio is going to change a lot in the US, because it is mostly a music promotion vehicle. I would expect most stations to just give up and shut down. The rest will do something else. They will not be playing popular music.

      How far do the tenacles of music promotion go? I don't really know. I suspect that the ripples from ending music promotion will go much further than anyone suspects.

    7. Re:Let it die. by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You might like to come live in the current world. Like everything else in entertainment (movies, games, comics whatever), music is entertainment and professionally made. It requires time, effort and money

      Your argument fails. While feature-length movies are generally the domain of professionals (requires a ton more time), there are entertaining other shorter movies such as Homestar Runner which doesn't even have ads on their site yet has hundreds of videos. Games? There are loads of games that the game itself is free while they use other ways of making a profit. Heck, I can download the WoW client for free ( http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/wowclient-download.html ) yet I wouldn't say it was unprofitable in the least. Comics? Lets see here, off of the top of my head there are, Megatokyo ( http://www.megatokyo.com/ ), User Friendly ( http://www.userfriendly.org/ ) and XKCD ( http://xkcd.com/ ) And XKCD lets you use their comic so long as you attribute to them.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    8. Re:Let it die. by sopssa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, you dont need big labels for quality. But lets face it; most starting bands are low on money, do it part time and if you've ever listened to demo's they suck. Well they dont if you like the band, but at that point you approciate them with different view. Just because a few musicians with their own money to support them can get studio time doesn't mean all the starting bands can.

      As much as I know this is heated topic in slashdot -- and i probably get modded down for it -- the big label records AREN'T there to fuck everyone over. They're just best at making everything that work (what i mentioned in earlier post and other). I mean, I like smaller records. Since my teenage years Drive-Thru Records have been my favourite one. They're a small, somewhat known record label thats just luckily stayed on positive balance. I've tried to support them when I can.

      Besides the label issues, see my later posts -- I support Spotify and methods for people for free to listen to music legitly. But I think record labels are needed to support the artists.

    9. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Hope you got it on LP, cause the mastering is compressed to shit on all the other formats these days, and sounds ghastly...

    10. Re:Let it die. by FelixNZ · · Score: 3, Informative

      Regarding Live performances - This isn't always the band's fault, although I haven't been to see either of those bands in person, but I have been to several venues where the guy behind the mixing desk is spot on, and the experience is far, far better than any recording. Conversely, the same bands in a different venue and some sort of bespectacled Human-Gorilla hybrid behind the desk, seemingly randomly playing with knobs and sliders have rendered the performance absolutely abysmal.

    11. Re:Let it die. by medlefsen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, what they do is find the artists they think they can sell and then try to make sure they turn a profit on them. It doesn't have anything to do with artistic merit. It doesn't really matter though. If they can't stay in business in the current environment then they'll die off and life will go on.

      The argument that music will go away if the prospect of multi-million dollar recording contracts goes away is completely nonsensical considering that the majority of music in the world and throughout history has been made in their absence. People will continue to make music, and people will even continue to find a away to reimburse artists. This is not the catastrophe some people are making it out to be.

    12. Re:Let it die. by FrankieBaby1986 · · Score: 1

      Good job copy-pasta karma whoring, very clever! ;)

      But at least it's YOUR post, and not a ripoff of someone else, I think. I thought your post sounded familiar, though: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1319765&cid=28878663

      It is a very good post all the same, and you make an excellent point.

      --
      ERROR: SIG NOT FOUND (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail?:
    13. Re:Let it die. by Darkness404 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Regarding live performances, you have to realize that many bands aren't exactly sober when they play.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    14. Re:Let it die. by sopssa · · Score: 1

      I know this. But lets face it; if you know the people, you have more feelings toward them and think its good. I mean, I *love* when my gf sings to me and I think its cute and lovely. But I have the feelings that make it. It wouldn't stand against commercially produced music.

      I've also listened to friends and friends of friends playing music and they seem good. But the relationships come in to play in that. When it gets larger, its not gonna help but the music has to be good quality and something liked. And I do enjoy demo songs and such, but I want to listen to professionally made music too.

    15. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thinking we could hire people to compose and perform some sort of violin melody to accompany your whine. In the next scene, someone will mention how musicians have been in business for several centuries, pointing out that operas and symphonies etc were often commissioned, and performed by professional musicians.

    16. Re:Let it die. by clarkkent09 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      - anticompetitive business practices (price fixing, etc) that have given potential customers a sour attitude towards music labels

      There is some truth in that, but come on. People really stopped buying music because of that?

      - destruction of diversity in radio broadcasting (something the music industry ironically pushed for) via the death of media ownership regulations mid-'90s

      Wrong. Radio hardly has any influence on what music people listen to these days.

      And finally, the main reason: - replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits. Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct. And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to.

      I doubt very much that the music industry is replacing musicians who would sell more music with those who would sell less. What you or I might consider quality music doesn't come into it at all and shouldn't. If people like "hyperproduced kiddie-shit artists", which they obviously do, then that's what they get. Just like on a typical weekend out of the top 10 grossing movies I would consider 9 or more to be completely unwatchable garbage, but other people obviously have different tastes so how can I say that unless movie industry makes more movies that I would like its profits would suffer? Your personal problems with the music industry are not necessarily the same ones that are causing its troubles.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    17. Re:Let it die. by sopssa · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I love it how the previous comment got moderated down as troll to hide opinions that actually reflect reality :)

    18. Re:Let it die. by enrevanche · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Killing off the record companies could possibly be the dawn of a new age with much more diversity. Without the massive inefficiencies of the current music business, how many more musicians can be supported with the same revenue? The fact is, their massive control over the market, requires draconian control and just a few over-promoted stars that blot out the rest. The changes in the music world brought about by technology and the internet has already dramatically increased the access to many artists that we would have had previously.

    19. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post is implying that bands sound worse live because their recordings are heavily manipulated in the studio. Ever consider that the live sound engineer might just suck at his job?

      It also works in the reverse. I saw a band live in Ozzfest 2003 called "Hotwire". They were amazing live, but their album was as bland as a plain bagel.

    20. Re:Let it die. by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 2, Informative

      promotion blah blah blah blah blah

      local niche

      Hur dur the internet?

    21. Re:Let it die. by Falconhell · · Score: 4, Informative

      I did live sound for 20 years. It is not always the engineers fault if the sound is crap. Some rooms are just impossile to get a good sound. Some bands are so loud on stage that the PA system cannot keep up, again bad sound. Some PA systems are crap.

      Bottom line is if you werent at the mixing desk yourself you have no idea of the problems that are in front of the Sound guy.

      How many times have you actually mixed a band?

      Yeh right never, it shows.

    22. Re:Let it die. by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Probably the only utility the record industry provides to artists is that of promotion. Yes, the Internet makes it very easy to distribute music for next to nothing, but how do you find people to distribute it to? Word of mouth only goes so far, and advertising is expensive.

      No, let me repeat that, advertising is very expensive. Go look up the numbers on Google Adsense and you'll see it's not unreasonable for every visitor to cost you (on average) $1. Assuming 10% of those people actually buy something from you (which is a very high conversion rate, more realistic would be 1-5%), and you need to make $10 sales (on average) per person, just to cover your advertising costs!

      But, back to the record industry. They have large coffers and deals with all the radio stations, so they can easily push out a $$$$ ad campaign and get airtime for songs they think they can make a return on. They probably don't make huge profits on most artists (indeed, they may even lose money), but in aggregate they still (obviously) turn a tidy profit.

      I don't know about you, but I don't have 6 figures to lay down on advertising, so as an independent content producer (of which I am, see Game!), it puts you in a very awkward position. For musicians, you can sell your soul to the music industry and hope there's some profit left over for you in the end, or you can go it alone and probably reach only a tiny audience, but keep all of the (tiny) profit for yourself. Or, you can lay down for advertising and promotion, which is expensive (as discussed already) and may or may not pay itself back.

      Don't get me wrong, obviously the record industry is only interested in turning a profit for itself (and will probably screw over most artists that sign with it in the process), but if the Internet had completely obsoleted the record industry, artists would have wised up by now and the record industry would actually be gone by now.

    23. Re:Let it die. by Falconhell · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Record companies decide to "promote" on the basis
      of how good looking an artist is, see Brittany Spears or Kylie Minogue for examples.

      Getting rid of the "Industry" who are nothing more than leaches would be a very good thing.

    24. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That particular post sounded all reasonable and matter-of-fact, but mods=gods and people remember you.

    25. Re:Let it die. by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      Hope you got it on LP, cause the mastering is compressed to shit on all the other formats these days, and sounds ghastly...

      Sometimes, but too often the LP gets the same crushed shit mastering as the CD. But anyway, that must be another reason for people ceasing to buying music: ALMOST EVERYTHING SOUNDS LIKE SHIT NOWADAYS.

    26. Re:Let it die. by sopssa · · Score: 0, Troll

      You might actually like to give a read to my later posts on this story before modding me troll as "music industry troll". Both this and this we're really good comments trying to get a line between music industry and pirates. But seems for the latter ones anything isn't enough in slashdot, so they got buried as "troll".

    27. Re:Let it die. by ProfM · · Score: 2, Funny

      Regarding live performances, you have to realize that many bands aren't exactly sober when they play.

      That's the reason to go see them ... it's like going to a Nascar event for the crashes.

    28. Re:Let it die. by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 1


      which they obviously do
      According to TFA, that's not so obvious. Maybe no one does. Which is one of many possible explanations for the decline of music sales. If people liked the music as much as the music industry thinks that they should, the profits wouldn't have declined as much. It could just be that the music industry is packed with lazy, stupid wanna be business men who don't like to work too hard to make a buck. And have therefore put themselves in this position.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    29. Re:Let it die. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Did Hank do it thisaway? Tennessee Ernie?

      Actually, I think they made money when they played. Which worked out all right, because they didn't have to support a boatload of parasites who owned contracts.

      Let's do Like Hank did, alright?

      It's not like it's NECESSARY that every man, woman, and child in the world is listening to the same vacuous big busted bitch whining into a microphone. There are vacuous big busted bitches in my own county who can whine into local mikes, and all the local people will toss her a few dollars.

      As the GP said, let it die.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    30. Re:Let it die. by RincewindTVD · · Score: 1

      So for "poor equipment that won't go as loud as I want" your recommended solution is to crank the volume anyway and have it sound like crap?

      How much repeat band mixing work have you had?

    31. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A lot of the time it's just that your used to the same exact recording with the same exact notes hit that you assume it was meant to be that way, and when you finally here it done differently it sounds wrong. There are bands that suck live, of course, I'm not denying that. (alcohol also is a problem...)

    32. Re:Let it die. by davester666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So you're saying that we're currently operating on a 'music bubble', where the labels just promote whatever they choose via payola to music stations to make appear popular, then people buy it en-masse, thus actually making it "popular"?

      That the industry is too big for the gov't to allow it to 'pop'?

      I'm sorry son, we have to listen to this crap. It's to save the economy.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    33. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct. And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to.

      Maybe- till then, leave Hanna alone. She's been a decent role model so far, except for a few weird picture spreads with her and *gasp* her dad.

    34. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      quality eh? you mean like making the fucking masters so hot that they burn the power transistors out of your amp? your precious labels have no idea what 'dynamic range' is anymore.. so much fo rthe idea that paying for engineering talent means a good quality product....or maybe it's the asshole execs who insist on spending money to make the recording and then spend more to ruin it before it lands on the plastic disc. so much for an inherent understanding of what the consumer wants.

    35. Re:Let it die. by piojo · · Score: 1

      - anticompetitive business practices (price fixing, etc) that have given potential customers a sour attitude towards music labels

      There is some truth in that, but come on. People really stopped buying music because of that?

      I have. I don't feel that I can give money to the major record companies in good conscience.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    36. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you aren't Miley Cyrus' target audience doesn't remove the fact that she's actually quite a talented person.

    37. Re:Let it die. by piojo · · Score: 1

      You're a troll, but I've gotta respond (sorry). The internet just doesn't solve everything. I mean, who's gonna buy your music and how do they know about it? Just existing and having a viable method distribution doesn't do much for you. You need marketing--that's where a record label comes in.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    38. Re:Let it die. by bursch-X · · Score: 2, Informative

      Tell this Georg Friedrich Händel (1685 - 1759) and he'll laugh his ass off. He was probably the best paid musician of his time. And music made him extremely rich. He just hit the right taste of the rich people sponsoring/hiring him.

      Most of the Music written from the 17th century onwards was basically contract work written for rich people. Bach has written most of his works being sponsored. Mozart, too. The whole idea that Music must not be paid for is ludicrous.

      Even the Minnesänger in Medieval times (12th - 15th century) had pretty well paid jobs at the royal and imperial courts. They didn't write their Minnelieder (minne - noble love) just for "love"...

      --
      There are two rules for success:
      1. Never tell everything you know.
    39. Re:Let it die. by pat+sajak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is true, provided that you listen to Brittney Spears and the Jonas Brothers. Otherwise, the music industry does more harm than good. They provide no tangible service in this day and age. Those who know where to look have no trouble finding artists they enjoy listening to. The record companies will always be around to provide your polished pop princesses etc, but in time they will be relegated to a niche market. True, non-label artists won't rake in the cash like they would with a major label backing them, but when they receive 90% of the profits rather than 0.003%, I don't think the artists will complain.

    40. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, the WOW Client? The game is free? So totally wrong. You do have to pay for an account, and for your subscription. All you're talking about is downloading the client, which is really just a case of bandwidth. And since Blizzard does use a torrent to ship out their patches, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss those costs.

      So if you're trying to come up with an example of a game that is ostensibly free, please come up with a better one.

    41. Re:Let it die. by mgblst · · Score: 1

      The primary benefit that record companies provide to the artist today is promotion. Without promotion, most artists will remain in some kind of local niche.

      With promotion, most artists will remain in some kind of local niche.

      Most bands will stay like this, the market is only so big.

    42. Re:Let it die. by Falconhell · · Score: 5, Informative

      Plenty thanks, only 2000+ shows in 20 years, most of which were repeat bookings, some in the hundreds of shows. Not to mention at least that many more that I had to refuse as I was already booked, often 6 months in adavance.

      Where did I say poor equipment that wont go as loud as I want? You just made that up, re read what I wrote. How many times have you mixed a band? Ah of course none.

      I will explain it simply as you don't seem to have a clue about live sound. If a rock band for example is very loud on stage(Instrument amps and speakers can be surprisingly efficient)say 105 dbspl one needs to be able to add 10db of volume (115dbspl)above the off stage volume for the vocals to be heard clearly.

      A snare drum on its own can when hit hard, exceed 120dbspl.

      Hence you need a powerful system capable of exceeding the off stage level. Turning down the volume is not an option in this scenario, unless the band is willing to turn down on stage, and let me tell you that virtually never happens, or if it does only for a few minutes then they are back up again.

      To ensure quality some "headroom" (Unused power)is required, that is power above what is required, to keep all points in the signal chain below the threshold of clipping, and hence the sound clean. Even so most systems I used would flash the clip lights on the peaks of the bass drum, this is not unusual with high powered actively crossed over systems.

      In an active xover system clipping of the bass amp does not effect the higher frequency channels.

      One of the things I discovered was that clean sound can be very loud without bothering listeners, whereas dirty or poorly equalized sound can be annoying at almost any volume.

      At no stage did I say I wanted a system to be louder if it was crap. That would just result in louder crap.

      As a long time live sound professional I did not choose crap systems for my shows, but some were equipment provided, so one had to make do with what was there. When I specified the systems it was never a problem.

      Obviouslyly the quality of the band and their instruments and amps has a huge influence too.
      On many occasions I mixed multiple acts, some of which sounded like crap and had me working my ass off thinking I was doing something wrong.

      When the next act came on all of the problems were gone and the sound great without any changes on my part, but even after many years it is sometimes very difficult for me to be sure whether it was the engineer/system causing the bad sound or just a bad band!

      Like I said if you are not at the desk doing the gig you have no idea under what limitations the sound guys is operating, and no real basis for criticism.

    43. Re:Let it die. by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 4, Interesting

      - anticompetitive business practices (price fixing, etc) that have given potential customers a sour attitude towards music labels

      There is some truth in that, but come on. People really stopped buying music because of that?

       

      I did. I spent many thousands of dollars on music in the 80s and 90s. The music industry went from selling $7.99 LPs that cost $1.50 to make, to selling CDs that cost less than 50 cents to make - yet they charged $15. WHY?

      Well one exec at the time said the reason why was because "they sound better so its worth it," which was akin to saying "fuck you, we do because we can."

      But the REAL reason was because they were illegally price fixing. They were NOT competing companies, they were an illegal cartel, violating anti-trust.

      They were found GUILTY of this, and yet the fine for the entire music cartel was less than what they sue one filesharer for.

      THAT'S why I swore I'd never give them another damned cent of mine - and I haven't. They were found GUILTY of being essentially organized crime, of ripping off their own customers to the tune of billions of dollars... they got a slap on the wrist and then complain that their CUSTOMERS are the crooks.

      And that's after notoriously ripping off most of the musicians whose product they are peddling in the first place.

      --
      This space available.
    44. Re:Let it die. by PaulMeigh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hey kind of like General Motors and their hunch that everyone wants an SUV. Well then the solution is obvious.

    45. Re:Let it die. by glebovitz · · Score: 1

      There is a lot of anger and the MPAA and RIAA, and much of it stems from their tactics to protect their dwindling market and the price they charge for the poor quality products they offer (read this as shit).

      The industry seems to be driven by bean counters and lawyers instead of artists and creative producers. They lack inspiration in what they produce and the business models they put forth. DRM is an uncreative technical answer to what seems to be a changing market. All aspects of the changing market and the Industry's inability to change with it has been discussed here on these very pages.

      The big question on my mind is: is it fair to single out individuals when they are merely representative of a common practice? If one or two individuals break the law, then it is a crime. If everyone breaks the law, then it isn't it a question of public policy? At what point does dissonance stop being an individual crime and start being a revolution? How effective is it to stop a revolution when the majority of people are against you?

      Putting that all aside, the current changes in the entertainment industry is not much different to the changes we have been experiencing in the computer, networking, and cell phone industries. It is a real pain in the ass when you can no longer extract 60% to 80% margins on your products. Even Microsoft is feeling this pinch. The way other industries deal with this problem is to find new ways of providing value to their customers. Nokia and Apple are focusing on the services surrounding their phones. Google is making money from advertising, and IBM has changed from a hardware vendor to a services company.

      I know it is not completely a fair comparison because of copyright law,, but when your product starts becoming a commodity, how do you respond? If I were running the entertainment industry, I would concentrate on new ways to make money rather than pissing off my remaining customers. It is not surprising to me that the only big change in the music industry came from Steve Jobs with his IPOD and ITunes and not from the lackluster entertainment execs. The big labels and entertainment giants are the same lazy behemoths as was the auto industry.

      Here is an interesting thought. Why doesn't someone on Slashdot come up with a creative way for the RIAA or MPAA to make lots of money given the current market trends? We could make it a contest. The winner gets a big cut in the profits. Just remember, if you do come up with a winning idea, I want my finders fee :-)

    46. Re:Let it die. by coaxial · · Score: 1

      replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits. Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct. And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to.

      Yeah, music's been shit since

      Nirvana
      The Beatles
      Elvis Presley
      Frank Sinatra ...
      Frederic_Chopin
      Johann Stamitz
      Henry Purcell
      Andrea Gabrieli
      Francesco Landini ...
      Cain.

      Seriously. This is the same crap that old broken down has beens have been whining for generations.

      Now get off my lawn.

    47. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the time recorded music have existed, you have had hit producing artists, who sold singles in great numbers, but could not shift LP's whatever they tried, and other artists that sold lots of LP's, but never reached number one on any hit list (and the elite few, like Elvis and The Beatles, who sold both).

      When CD's became the main medium, people had to buy the whole album, and the industry mainly concentrated on artists that could produce "hits", as that led to sales of complete records, even if CD singles appeared, they never took of like the old singles.

      The big difference with online music sales, and probably the reason the industry have been fighting this far to long, is off course that now their artists are "single artists", and the buyers have a way to just buy the 1 or 2 tracks on an album they want.

      Now with streaming music services appearing, they replace not only the old radio listening, but as you can decide what to play yourself, they also replace buying records for lots of people.

    48. Re:Let it die. by RincewindTVD · · Score: 1

      I think he/she is trying to say that they don't charge for the game.
      They charge for the service that the game connects to, and this is an on-going charge.

      Not the best example, but I think I can see where he/she was coming from.

    49. Re:Let it die. by russotto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What people do not understand is the full spectrum of promotion. Kill off the record companies and promotion dies. With it go a lot of magazines that music promotion is supporting. FM Radio is going to change a lot in the US, because it is mostly a music promotion vehicle. I would expect most stations to just give up and shut down. The rest will do something else. They will not be playing popular music.

      OK, sounds like a deal... wait... is there a downside to all this?

    50. Re:Let it die. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Now is that professionally played music or in reality is that professionally marketed music. Music you have to listen to because all the marketing tells you that if you don't listen to it and like it your are lame. Most modern music has become endless repeats and not very good ones where most of the money is spent on marketing than is spent on producing or distributing the music.

      In the end for me, thanks to the RIAA et al I can hear the greed and shallowness behind the music and can't really listen to much of anything any more a lot of the stuff I though of as 'cool' I now recognise as empty marketing and peer pressure.

      The reality is, what makes great music, is the environment you share it is and who you share it with, so yeah some of the best music you will ever 'enjoy' is drunken sing along ie. participatory music, that canned stuff is just music junk food, future elevator music.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    51. Re:Let it die. by Zerth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Doesn't nearly every distribution method on the internet have a "if you like A, 70% of everyone who does also like band B" Most of the entertainment I buy these days comes from those suggestions, since I replaced my stereo with a USB stick and haven't heard radio in about 3 years.

      I suppose somebody could still bribe video makers to feature songs in the background of their stuff, maybe 10% of my audio comes from that still.

    52. Re:Let it die. by DannyO152 · · Score: 1

      Once upon a time it had factories that used assembly line techniques and shipping of physical product. Back in the 1970s, the coolest thing about Santa Maria, California, to us Santa Barbara folks were its name on a very tasty style of outdoor cook-out and the CBS plant that pressed vinyl.

      Now the record companies give every indication that they'd prefer to be licensing administrators, but we call them an industry just as some of us call a collection of mp3s an album.

    53. Re:Let it die. by xystren · · Score: 1

      I haven't purchased a CD or MP3 (iTunes or the likes) for about 6+ years now... It's not because I'm getting my music illegally like the RIAA would like to think.. It's because absolutely nothing has held my interest long enough to make me want to go out and buy it. Anyways, the radio plays music to ad-nausiam that I'm sick of the music before I even get a chance to buy the CD/MP3

      So, quite honest, I'm not the least bit surprised.

    54. Re:Let it die. by b4upoo · · Score: 1

      The real deal is that those who are middlemen seek great wealth. The people actually creating the music are paid as a trivial after thought.

    55. Re:Let it die. by SavTM · · Score: 1

      - anticompetitive business practices (price fixing, etc) that have given potential customers a sour attitude towards music labels There is some truth in that, but come on. People really stopped buying music because of that?

      Absolutely. Or rather, I implemented client-side DRM on my music purchases - I manage my own rights over music media I purchase, or I simply do not purchase it.

      - destruction of diversity in radio broadcasting (something the music industry ironically pushed for) via the death of media ownership regulations mid-'90s Wrong. Radio hardly has any influence on what music people listen to these days.

      I listen to Pandora a fair bit and have found a lot of new music there. If Pandora can grasp, through technology, what customers want to hear and then generate sales, why can't radio? The simple answer is that media ownership chooses not to because they believe it costs less. Promoting goodwill between customers and product is a waste of resources and we have at least ten years of evidence backing up that statement.

      And finally, the main reason: - replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits. Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct. And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to. I doubt very much that the music industry is replacing musicians who would sell more music with those who would sell less...Your personal problems with the music industry are not necessarily the same ones that are causing its troubles.

      Oh but they have. It's a self-effecting prophecy, actually, because the largest acts are no longer pursuing contracts actively and are focusing on self-promotion (myspace/twitter/blog/tour/etc).

      Say, if you own a restaurant and your star chef leaves to start a new restaurant or simply because they are frustrated with your management, do you hire another star chef? Maybe if you know one, but in all likelihood, some culinary production is about to take place in your kitchen that is merely 'good' or 'above average'. Your customers will notice the difference, too.

      The less goodwill between industry and fans, the less artists will want to be associated with those industry players, despite all the perks. Small labels will get a larger piece of the pie, but the pie will get a lot smaller (at least temporarily) because those small labels don't have access to the same media promotion levers as the entrenched industry players and those industry players are still pulling the levers for the schlock that they need to turn out for the next quarterly statement. It really isn't fair to the artists who are trying to make a living, but it is completely and totally the industry's fault for treating their customers this way for over a decade. Running a crusade to chase after the last 10% of profits while sacrificing the experience of the other 90%? Not a good business model...

    56. Re:Let it die. by TheLink · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > unless the band is willing to turn down on stage, and let me tell you that virtually never happens

      Yeah, because a band that plays that loud is usually extremely hearing impaired. If they turn it down they won't be able to hear themselves.

      So kids, if you do that "band thing" remember to use ear protection. Too bad so many musicians think they don't need it. Many end up being so deaf that they have problems hearing stuff even when the monitors are at max.

      In the racing industry the professionals don't think they're too cool to wear safety gear. Yes it does negatively affect their performance a bit, but it's worth it in the long term.

      --
    57. Re:Let it die. by Vexorian · · Score: 1

      You might like to come live in the current world. Like everything else in entertainment (movies, games, comics whatever), music is entertainment and professionally made. It requires time, effort and money. Just as stupid RIAA's lawsuits against studenst are, pirates reasoning to get content for free are too. Music *IS* industry.

      Heh, honestly. If some random guy in the internet can provide your costumers with a copy of your product that has exactly the same (or thanks to DRM even more) quality than your product for FREE! then you are probably doing something wrong. The record industry may pull as many tantrums as they'd like, but it is their business that allows piracy to kill them. They could go and complain about how evil pirates do things illegally. And let's say they actually manage to magically exterminate piracy. There's still going to be the little problem... you guys miss the point that people can distribute movies, games, comics and their music for free?

      Why would they do that? Well, the internet has removed the issues with distribution itself being expensive, now it can actually be done for free. Publishing is also not that difficult anymore, you can have some other people's blogs and social networks doing it for you for free. Maybe that's the problem? Maybe the internet is too open... or maybe nobody is really forever entitled to profit... not even the record companies.

      --

      Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
    58. Re:Let it die. by drsmithy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Word of mouth only goes so far, and advertising is expensive.

      In the days of people having 100s (if not1000s) of "friends" on sites like Facebook, "word of mouth" is a hell of a lot more effective than it ever was before - and that's likely to remain true going forward.

    59. Re:Let it die. by sopssa · · Score: 1

      You might like to come live in the current world. Like everything else in entertainment (movies, games, comics whatever), music is entertainment and professionally made. It requires time, effort and money. Just as stupid RIAA's lawsuits against studenst are, pirates reasoning to get content for free are too. Music *IS* industry.

      Heh, honestly. If some random guy in the internet can provide your costumers with a copy of your product that has exactly the same (or thanks to DRM even more) quality than your product for FREE! then you are probably doing something wrong. The record industry may pull as many tantrums as they'd like, but it is their business that allows piracy to kill them.

      So you are pretty much saying that because copying electronic content is possible, its free to do?

      As in, people are free to make money from pirated copies by selling those on the street?

    60. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sudo make me a sandwich

    61. Re:Let it die. by sopssa · · Score: 1

      And what is your point? Promotion is always better than no promotion. Where would they get without that?

    62. Re:Let it die. by Tsujiku · · Score: 1

      You fail to mention that you have to be good. With the ability to play good music, it becomes rather likely that someone who hears you play will go and show his friend some video of you playing and be like "Hey, look at this guy! He's really good!" It's called "word of mouth" and it's far more trustworthy than anything a record label could produce.

      --
      Paradox
    63. Re:Let it die. by russotto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct.

      Don't think so. She's from a country music family. They've got a whole different style of self destruction.

    64. Re:Let it die. by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      ...realizing that they sounded absolutely awful live and that the sound on their records has been manipulated to the point of being false...

      False? In what sense? We have been "manipulating" sound since the beginning of recorded music, everything from choosing which takes to master all the way up to the highly produced sound of today's radio music. One can look at the modern recording studio as just another instrument (one which the producer is playing, usually with the input of the artists) and the recording session as just another "live" venue. Just because they've edited something together and modified the sound extensively doesn't mean the performance is any less "true" or "real". It's just different.

      You might check out the book "Perfecting Sound Forever" by Greg Milner about the arguments that have been debated over this point since the first audio cylinders were produced. You can probably tell that I come down on the side that says that whatever gets the artist(s) vision across is fair game, whether it is the perfection of a studio production or the energy of a less perfect, but live, human performance.

      Do not take from this the notion that I support the RIAA or the current corporate system. I think that small labels and local acts are more than capable of producing art that is just as good (and potentially better) than a lot of the ones promoted by major labels. Every large metropolitan area has many small studios that are capable of doing a very good job at rates that are within the reach of independent musicians. However, the studio version of an artist's music will still not necessarily sound like the live performance (nor necessarily would I want them to) - even classical recordings are "enhanced" during mastering these days (usually with slight amounts of eq, reverb and, in some cases, even compression).

      In other words, it was your expectation of the (relative) perfection of the studio product at a live performance that disappointed you (or else the bands had a really crappy night - and you can't get more "true" than that). Next time go to a live performance without the preconceptions and prejudices and you might be surprised how much there is to take away from both the live and studio "performances".

      --
      That is all.
    65. Re:Let it die. by Falconhell · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actaully, the way the drummer plays is the biggest influence on volume, a loud drummer gives the rest of the band little choice of how loud they play, they have to be able to hear themselves.

      Pete Townsend of The Who had hearing damage, which occoured due to excessive headphone volume in the recording studio, not live gigs.

      You do kinda have a point regarding volume, but in my experience it is not as big a problem as you may think. As exposure to loud levels is relatively short (At most about 2 hours at a time) the level needs to be very high to cause hearing damage.

      Despite mixing (Loudly)for 20 + years I have no hearing damage!

      I was always very careful to remove myself from the gig when not mixing, to avoid the usually loud distorted DJ music in beteween sets.

      More hearing problems result from loud industrial envronments where repeated exposure to loud uncompressed transients can last all day. Exposure time is the key factor.

      Few of the musos I worked with had hearing damage.

      Some kinds of music just do not work well unless at a relatively high volume.

      A classic example was Bob Marleys backing band The Wailers. I worked with them for a short tour once and they were incredibly loud, but mostly in the low bass area.

      This produced a most extraordinary effect, of the whole airmass in the room moving back and forth at very low frequency, producing an incerdible groove in the music.(Having 8X dual 24" sub woofers helped too)

    66. Re:Let it die. by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Word of mouth works pretty well nowadays.

      Post some of your stuff on Youtube, link to Amazon or wherever people can buy more of your stuff, get your friends to spread the word. If you're good enough, you get new fans and maybe even sales.

      If Amazon steps up to the task they could be more _useful_ than those snobbish critics. e.g. "Others who bought Britney Spears latest stuff also bought X"
      Many critics might not like Ms. Spears, but it's clear she has many fans.

      The unfortunate fact is, most people aren't good enough to capture such a huge market share.

      The musician industry is like tennis and other "Star" industries. The top 10 at anytime get most of the mind share. That said, it's not as bad as tennis - since if you're not as obscure even if you're the number 412th most famous "pop artist" in the world.

      --
    67. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe true for someone crooning folk music on a beat-up guitar, but in all honesty, any studio setup that costs under $250,000 is going to produce crap.

      That MacBook with the inexpensive DAC/ADC add on doesn't have the sound quality or headroom that the professional gear has, nor does that USB mike even come close to having even a CD quality sound. A single mono mic for vocals that doesn't make a scratchy sound, you will be paying $6000 for an entry level Shure or Newmann, if sound quality is valued.

    68. Re:Let it die. by Metrol · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, let me repeat that, advertising is very expensive.

      Why is this? I know this probably sounds hopelessly naive, but where do these "marketing" funds go to? I'm not talking about advertising a live show. More along the lines of how any of us ever heard of Miss Spears in the first place.

      It may be the more interesting aspect of this story isn't the record industry losing customers, but the younger generations skipping the main marketing arm of the recording industry, FM radio. The overtly corporate and hopelessly generic radio stations across the country all playing the exact same line up paid for by the "recording industry". I'm old enough to have witnessed this transition from edgy to safe FM stations in my life. Due to this I have satellite radio in my car, and I listen to streaming Internet stations at home.

      If FM survives the fall of the RIAA giants it will likely mean that stations will go back to when they chose for themselves what they would play. I think we'd all be better off if that kind of marketing money were to vanish.

      --
      The line must be drawn here. This far. No further.
    69. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As much as I know this is heated topic in slashdot -- and i probably get modded down for it

      Yeah, you will. Evidently 'flamebait' and 'troll' are the new 'I disagree with this person and am too lazy to write a good rebuttal' mods.

      the big label records AREN'T there to fuck everyone over.

      See, I was with you until you said that. I find the anti-business sentiment around here to be annoying and naive but I can likewise find no redeeming value from the big record labels. Their specialty seems to be litigation and lobbying, not music. They've run their business into the ground with a series of stupid decisions and if it wasn't for their lobbying clout and deep pockets would probably have been replaced by more nimble competitors a long time ago.

      But I think record labels are needed to support the artists.

      I would agree with that to a certain extent -- but I still refuse to give any RIAA member a penny of my money. I also agree with you that it's not really fair to pirate their product just because you don't like their business model. I've done my share of filesharing in my younger days but nowadays it's just not worth the hassle -- particularly when better stuff is available for a fair price from non-RIAA record labels.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    70. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a lot of places the band has nothing to do with the mixing. They just plug into the house's equipment, and the venue's sound guy takes care of the rest.

      A lot of places believe that volume == quality, so the volume control automatically goes to 11, regardless of the music. And the band has zero ability to change this unless they change venues.

    71. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The overtly corporate and hopelessly generic radio stations across the country

      It's fucking sad, isn't it? I can literally set my watch by the music that is played on local radio stations. Umm, Nickelback, it must be 4:30.......

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    72. Re:Let it die. by cencithomas · · Score: 2

      ...you will be paying $6000 for an entry level Shure or Newmann, if sound quality is valued.

      Ahem. Please to observe the industry-standard Shure SM58, used in studios and stages around the nation and around the world... $99.

      --
      ...'tis easier to blame than to improve.
    73. Re:Let it die. by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      And finally, the main reason: - replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits.

      I don't think that's quite it. I think at the music industry's peak sales, it was mostly to kids, or rather parents who bought the CDs their kids wanted. Same reason so many other industries sell mostly to the 14-18 age bracket, they generally don't know what's reasonable to spend on things like CDs (or ipods) and have nothing BUT disposable income, and time to entertain themselves with things like music. The music industry, being greedy and shortsighted, focused most of their efforts on that age group. Why search for and put up with talented musical acts if they're not your bread and butter anyway.

      The graph and TFA don't break it down by age group, and neither of course does the music industry. They're all focused on total sales.

      From TFA for example:

      According to a March study by the NPD Group, a market research group for the entertainment industry, 13- to 17-year-olds âoeacquired 19 percent less music in 2008 than they did in 2007.â CD sales among these teenagers were down 26 percent and digital purchases were down 13 percent.

      What about, say, age groups that have had time to develop musical taste? I'd guess (without seeing evidence one way or the other though) that the numbers of sales to older music consumers is flatter, yes they are less profitable, but I'd also expect the dropoff in sales in the past decade to be shallower, both because older groups -probably- spend less time looking for ways to get their favorite music without blowing their whole allowance, and because the more mature groups have been less okay with taking music without paying. Kids have always been willing to steal CDs after all (not to compare music sharing or streaming music with shoplifting.)

      In other words, I think the crisis the music industry is facing is entirely because they put all their bets on an age group that was the most profitable but also was the one most likely to be lured away by other alteratives to paying.

      It would be great if this whole thing made the music industry reform and stop trying to make the musical equivalent of meth and sell it to kids. It would also be great if the music industry announced they were no longer going to be idiots about suing. Not really sure which is more likely...

    74. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd highly recommend hitting last.fm or Spotify (if in Europe) and using their radio function to listen to related bands to what you like. Its almost certain you will find new stuff that is worth running past your ears.

      Even most "rock" radio stations won't play stuff past 1997, there are lots of bands out there and producing quality albums. Good ones. The problem is that they just don't have a multi-million dollar promo machine behind them, so they are not as in your face as Britney or Hannah.

    75. Re:Let it die. by mrbcs · · Score: 1

      Maybe true for someone crooning folk music on a beat-up guitar, but in all honesty, any studio setup that costs under $250,000 is going to produce crap.

      I hate to reply to AC but you sir, to put it nicely, are fucking retarded. I have seen an album, produced in a studio with less than 25k of equipment, 10 years ago, that can rival anything these RIAA guys can make. To use an ancient phrase: "It's a poor craftsman that blames his tools".

      The engineer that produced that album was a genius. He used what he had and did a masterful job. To say that a good production can only be made by a record label is laughable.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    76. Re:Let it die. by adona1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can see what you're saying, but the record labels are in the business of making money, and their product just happens to be music. Over the last century or so they built up a system where they controlled the creation (recording) and sale (distribution) of music, and basically artists had to suck it up or leave.

      That's not quite the case any more, and people are beginning to wise up to it. And the way labels have treated artists doesn't make people want to support them.

      --
      Between the falling angel and the rising ape
    77. Re:Let it die. by nolife · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've never done any studies or analysis of what people like and why but it seems a lot of people like something after hearing more often and if someone else likes it or if it is trendy. Think about it, teens twenty years ago were listening to 80's music and loving it. Why aren't teens listening to 80's music now? If Eddie Grant's Electric Avenue was good and a number one hit then, shouldn't it be good and a popular hit now? Did humans somehow evolve and now naturally like some other type of music? The trend makes something "good" in pop music. How does the music industry take advantage of this? Pick a few artists to promote (get them interviews, guest appearances on popular tv shows, special contests with soda makers etc...). The music industry can only promote so many dumb blonds or a limited amount of any genre at a time. The music did not find the diamond in the rough with many of these stars, they promoted them to that position. Those artists would have the same talent with or without the music industries blessing. With less involvement of the music industry,the trendy part would change but I don't think the there would be a lack or good quality music. People might have to figure out what they consider good for themselves and not let the music industry do it for them.

      --
      Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
    78. Re:Let it die. by digitect · · Score: 1

      No Russians? Or at least an early Modernist, that's a pretty big gap between Chopin and Sinatra. :)

      --
      There is no need to use a SlashDot sig for SEO...
    79. Re:Let it die. by mrbcs · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I wonder if it has anything to do with that fact that the baby boomers don't buy music anymore and the generations behind them simply don't buy as much.

      I had to buy the original Rush albums 3 times because I wore them out. I bought two copies of Dark side of the moon, one album and one cd. I think that was a very dumb profit model, but that's how the music industry lived for years. The boomers were teh generation that bought their collections on album, then cassette, then finally cd. That will never happen again.

      Now we have a much smaller number of people in the "music buying age" who buy digital and never have to worry about it again.

      It's not rocket science. Less people, the shit doesn't break anymore and you can find most of it for free on the internet. I think the music industry is finished. They may stop the last one... but they'll never stop the first 2 points.

      --
      I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
    80. Re:Let it die. by ColaMan · · Score: 1

      There's a psycho-accoustical effect with loud music - the brain has trouble determining pitch and will simply fill in with the 'correct' pitch as needed.

      As long as it's *loud* you can sing off-key as much as you like and your fans will scream for more. But the guy outside the club will be wincing as you miss every note and thinking, "who are these losers?"

      --

      You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
      There is a lot of hype here.
    81. Re:Let it die. by servognome · · Score: 1

      Killing off the record companies could possibly be the dawn of a new age with much more diversity. Without the massive inefficiencies of the current music business, how many more musicians can be supported with the same revenue? The fact is, their massive control over the market, requires draconian control and just a few over-promoted stars that blot out the rest. The changes in the music world brought about by technology and the internet has already dramatically increased the access to many artists that we would have had previously.

      As you say, there is nothing stopping an independent artist from releasing their own music, so the diversity is there.
      The record companies drive the economic expansion of the industry by exposing music to new markets. For example urban music wouldn't have the same penetration into the suburban markets without record company promotion.

      --
      D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
    82. Re:Let it die. by inKubus · · Score: 1

      It's not an industry anyway; it's publishing. Publishing has always been about finding stuff no one knows about and promoting it and making copies available everywhere. It's a SERVICE that consists of a few parts: production, manufacturing and distribution. We used to need the classic music publishing business because it was hard to record stuff, hard to manufacture discs to carry the sound information and it was hard to get it from place to place.

      Now it's pretty easy to find and get any type of media with your internet connection. Therefore the opportunity cost is lower for the most expensive aspects of the classic music industry (manufacturing and distribution). And even production is pennies on the dollar compared to what it used to be. For a few grand you can get a home studio set up that has at least 1980's quality recording. Sure, there's an element of artistry to the production but whatever.

      The internet is killing the media business by giving consumers more choice at a lower cost. The same thing the auto industry did to the railroads in the 20s and 30's. Guess what, books are dying also. And so is the physical movie business.

      The bottom line is that what they do is not that great, unique or valuable any more, so they are dying out, to be replaced by the communal nature of the internet, where information (energy) is shared. There are ways to make money but copyright was never meant to protect a dying industry, it was meant to protect the individual innovator, the artist, from the big, rich, powerful businesses. And it still does today. A record label can't swipe a song you've copyrighted and sell it and not pay you. That's what copyright is for. Not preventing citizens from making copies of something. The biggest mistake ever made was extending copyright law to corporations as if they are individuals. Hell, any rights to corporations. And I'm not really against corporations, but the vast majority of these guys made their billions exploiting poor artists back in the 50's, 60's and 70's and turning music into almost a pharmaceutical rather than an art. They've created some gems, but they've also created some of the worst music ever heard. And because they were formed in order to exploit people and not improve the world, they are not socially valuable anymore either. We (citizens) just won't put up with exploiting people any more for money. You have to do something that benefits society and THEN MAYBE we give you some money.

      --
      Cool! Amazing Toys.
    83. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "No one" is two words.

      Not one word -- there is no such word as "noone".

    84. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TANSTAAFL. The bands who are putting out their tracks at no licensing charge are doing it to try to get heard. What the songs do is help get people in the doors when they play at venues (where the bands have the best chances of earning an income.)

      What the record companies do, and this applies to all record labels, from BMI down to a local labels hanging by shoestrings, is promote. This is one of the biggest services they can do. Without doing this, all they are would be glorified print shops and CD makers. This is a tough industry. There are only so many venues, and far more bands out there wanting gig time. So, its a game of who can jostle to the top to get their signed stuff into the clubs.

      Promotion isn't free either. This is not just nailing flyers to boards and uploading files to iTunes. Promotion is being able to give the right people the right things they want in return for letting your band occupy space (both physical and temporal) at clubs that people go to.

      I misread the costumer part (as opposed to customer). For a second, I thought the band was offering free copies of works to their seamstresses. That would be nifty because decent fabric costs a lot, not to mention someone with the expertise to choose the right sized patterns and sew it up well. Same with makeup. Pass an album to the guy with the airbrush in return for a good corpsepaint job before hopping on stage.

    85. Re:Let it die. by Artifakt · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ah, but the music industry has demonstrated its practices include replacing musicians who sell more with ones who sell less. Doubt it all you want, but really read up on the case of Prince - a proven seller, and the industry decided to enforce contract provisions that were so draconian that by their interpretation he couldn't use his own name to sign autographs, except on their schedule, at their formal events. Once you learn how his controllers made an attempt to break him that was like something out of the Prisoner TV show, all that business with the 'Artist formerly known as...' starts making much more sense from his point of view. And the industry's profits suffered right along with his, but what was important obviously wasn't the money but breaking a difficult artist.
            Here's some cases you might also google:
            1. the 5 original Planet of the Apes movies, each made for less budget than the last, each bringing in more money, while the studio involved put all the profits back into epic historical pictures that mostly never broke even.
            2. Roger Corman, the director who always shot within his budget and time limits, and whose films always made a profit, but who was personally insulted in vile terms by some of the biggest Hollywood studio heads, not for his film's quality but explicitly for making them look bad to stockholders.
            3. The Monkees, who made public appearances to prove they weren't lip syncing and faking all their instrument playing, and got undercut by their own management team for doing it.
            4. EMI's requesting in the 70's that certain artists be taken off the nominations for awards such as Grammies, either so that other EMI artists could win, or supposedly to trade favors with other recording companies. (I really should claim it was the whole industry, but EMI's actions were the only ones settled in court. Even though they lost a claim that specified they had partners in the act at all of the other recording giants, none of the others had to face lawsuits over it, AFAIK.).
            5. Disney and Pixar, up until after Monsters Inc. or so.

          Once you realize that the music and film industries have a real history of making 100% control the real issue and not money, the corollary becomes: It's not that people like "kiddie-shit artists", it's that the industry likes artists that will sign contracts giving the industry massive amounts of control over their personal lives and creative processes, and those tend to be young and stupid.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    86. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a part time/hobby musician, I release my stuff for free @ http://www.mymusicstream.com. Anyone can listen and download for free, I've got 6 fans and I'm happy.

      (shameless self promotion http://www.mymusicstream.com/artist/4113/music.html)

    87. Re:Let it die. by Eil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't believe me? Go spend a few hours on youtube.

      THIS.

      The music industry's days are numbered. They've shown themselves to be nothing but a boatload of evil over the last decade, but that's not why they're going down. They're going down because they have been replaced by technology. As many (and I do mean many) here on Slashdot have noted again and again, the record company's job is two-fold:

      1. Production
      2. Promotion

      As far as #1, a few hundred bucks will get you good low end--but good enough--equipment to put together a few tracks or even an entire album that sounds decent enough to play on the radio. Sure, you'll need some practice and theoretical knowledge of audio production to get a good result. But that's hardly an insurmountable barrier. If an artist can learn the science and art of their instruments well enough to make good music, they can learn too how to record it properly. I totally do not buy the whole "you need an expensive veteran producer to get anywhere" argument.

      And for #2, there are multiple outlets locally and on the web for an artist to get themselves noticed. YouTube being a prime example. Technology is making it incredibly easy to self-promote. Social networking sites are freakin' gold when it comes to word-of-mouth style advertising. They're allowing people to share cool stuff with their circle of friends in a way that never existed before. Yes, you have to put in a tremendous amount of effort to distinguish yourself as a signal among the noise, but that's true whether you're signed with a major label or not.

      I hope I'm right about the future and that we'll start to see a lot more changes for the better in terms of music culture. From where I stand, the traditional music industry's days are certainly numbered and I believe their actions indicate that they are fully aware of it.

    88. Re:Let it die. by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      You bring up a good point with the promotion argument, but I would counter with this: the record labels have been too slow in capitalizing on new technologies for the purposes of promotion. They dragged their feet on digital music and the file sharing networks sprung up to meet the demand. They were late to the party with legal pay-per-track and subscription music services and now Steve Jobs has them over a barrel with iTunes and a 90%+ share of the mobile music player market with the iPods and now the iPhone.

      The record labels, and especially the big ones, are in trouble precisely because they failed to do what Artists most needed them to do most which was to promote the band and get their music into the hands of listeners how they wanted it (the customer is always right). Instead the record labels responded by buying bad laws and filing lawsuits against their customers. The record labels had their chances and they blew them all.

      Now, unless Steve Jobs somehow screws up spectacularly (which doesn't seem likely), they will never be able to properly recover their roles as promoters. People can already get streamed music on XM or Sirius satellite and it is only a matter of time before iPhone offers on demand 24-7 streaming and DJed channels ala Pandora if they don't offer those things already.

      IMHO, the record label of the future will be a much smaller business which mostly handles the logistics of getting the band promoted through streaming services operated by others, like Sirius/XM and iTunes, where the labels themselves no longer control distribution as they have in the past; having ceded that role to others through their own ineptness and unwillingness to take necessary risks with new disruptive technologies that changed the music business and dragged them kicking and screaming into the digital age.

    89. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      all playing the exact same line up paid for by the "recording industry"

      Radio stations don't get paid by recording companies to play music. That is called payola; it is illegal. The stations pay various licensing fees to play the music that you hear.

      Also, most program directors choose their programming lineup based on testing of the songs, and sometimes intuition.

      Finally, you mention a ". . . transition from edgy to safe FM stations . . ." have you ever thought that this has to do with a shift in the taste of the general public? Contrary to your earlier belief that radio stations are paid by record companies, radio stations generate money through ad revenue; radio stations with higher ratings in their market can generally sell more ads. Therefore, if your market wants the safe music that you mentioned, the radio station will follow suit and play the music that their listeners want to hear. That is, if the radio station wants to stay in business.

    90. Re:Let it die. by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      I would argue, as others have done on this thread, that what currently passes for promotion, as done by the record labels, is inefficient and does not make the best use of new technologies to promote a wider range of artists to their respective profitable niches. Instead, what we continue to get is the same crappy mass-market over-promoted McBands that appeal marginally to a broad spectrum of people but don't really fully satisfy anyone. If promotion is the primary objective and CD sales are down then why not spend less on CDs and more on promoting bands where their customers want to hear them like iTunes, Sirius or XM radio and Pandora and other Internet streaming services?

    91. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The SM58 is a stage mic. It produces sound that is usable for demos or a "raw" sound for punk. For vocals, you will be needing something a lot better that has the headroom and audio fidelity that professional audio requires.

      And that is just a microphone for one singer. A drumset needs 8-10 mics, each costing $2000 apiece. A DI box will run you a grand for the guitarist. A voice processor from TC-Helicon will run you several thousand. You need a mixing and recording setup with 24 channels at a minimum for mixing all these tracks. Then there are the amps and monitors required for each band member.

      All this is not even factoring the enormous cost of treating a room for no standing waves, expensive online UPS power that is isolated to prevent ground loops, audio quality hard disks, a computer system that can handle ProTools, and the other basics of a studio. So, for a setup that can produce something that doesn't repulse a listener who has expensive high fidelity equipment, you are looking at $150,000 minimum.

    92. Re:Let it die. by blitzkrieg3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, you will. Evidently 'flamebait' and 'troll' are the new 'I disagree with this person and am too lazy to write a good rebuttal' mods.

      New? I think this has been happening since the mod system came out...

    93. Re:Let it die. by blitzkrieg3 · · Score: 1

      Word of mouth only goes so far, and advertising is expensive.

      In the days of people having 100s (if not1000s) of "friends" on sites like Facebook, "word of mouth" is a hell of a lot more effective than it ever was before - and that's likely to remain true going forward.

      I actually tend to think the opposite. I have so many friends on facebook that aren't my real friends that invites over fb tend to mean less to me then a phone call, or even an email. Plus you know that everyone invites their entire friends list so you don't get the feeling that the person really wants you to be there.

    94. Re:Let it die. by Lavene · · Score: 1

      No, let me repeat that, advertising is very expensive. Go look up the numbers on Google Adsense and you'll see it's not unreasonable for every visitor to cost you (on average) $1. Assuming 10% of those people actually buy something from you (which is a very high conversion rate, more realistic would be 1-5%), and you need to make $10 sales (on average) per person, just to cover your advertising costs!

      The article says that the industry peaked in 1999, then the internet came and ruined it.

      One thing you didn't see all that much of, here anyway, back then was TV ads for music. Now it seems like every CD is marketed by TV ads, and TV ads is astronomically expensive. On an average evening I can see an ad for a CD maybe 10 times. That's a lot of money. And if the album doesn't sell well for some reason (like it's just so bad that no one want it) they loose money.

      I see the industry keep blaming the internet, be it pirates, internet radio or whatever, but maybe... just maybe, they should start looking at, oh, I don't know, the music they try to sell? Maybe people don't want it? Maybe people are tired of the wall of sound that they try to push today? Maybe people don't want to shell out a lot of money on a CD that sounds exactly like the last CD they bought? Maybe they don't want to shell out a lot of money on 10 bands where you can hardly hear a difference? Maybe people don't buy their product because it suck?

      Just a thought...

    95. Re:Let it die. by TheLink · · Score: 2, Informative

      > Despite mixing (Loudly)for 20 + years I have no hearing damage!

      Maybe you're tougher or more resilient. But have you actually had your hearing tested?

      I know a musician who went to get tested and he found that there are some frequencies in the normal range that he totally cannot hear - I guess the relevant hair cells have been blasted to death. But his hearing is still reasonably functional (I'm sure he did notice some problems that's why he went to get tested).

      It doesn't get better with age though (unless the technology improves a lot ;) ).

      On my own self tests my hearing is crap. I don't think I have a 90dB dynamic range - I think it's more like 50-60dB :(. But at least I can still hear 18KHz though I'm in my 30s.

      The hearing damage thing can be a vicious circle - you get damaged, so you turn up the volume on your headphones, then you get even more damaged.

      Ears aren't as easily damaged by very loud and very low bass. Unless it gets to ridiculously loud levels, in which case there are also other risks e.g. ruptured lungs http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3614180.stm

      --
    96. Re:Let it die. by tsm_sf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I find the anti-business sentiment around here to be annoying and naive[...]

      I have to butt in on this. There is no anti-business sentiment on slashdot. There is an anti-getting-screwed-over sentiment. I don't know when we started equating "not buying their bullshit" with "anti-business", but it's a pretty scary trend.

      Personally, I feel that this has been driven by an influx of young republicans (sorry, libertarians) without a lot of real world experience. If you've never worked in a corporate environment, it would be hard to believe how twisted some people are.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    97. Re:Let it die. by tftp · · Score: 1

      Why doesn't someone on Slashdot come up with a creative way for the RIAA or MPAA to make lots of money given the current market trends?

      Because the {RI,MP}AA, in the current market, should not exist in their current form. You explain it yourself.

      Musicians may still need promoters and financial backers and recording studios - it's their personal decision - but a monopoly that does all these services for a simple flat fee of all your current and future earnings (plus all your copyrights are belong to us) is probably not a best option. But I think RIAA will be holding this ground until they are completely eliminated from the market, just like SCO. This is because the only other option for them is to dissolve their gigantic business and switch to a totally different revenue model.

      Their current revenue model is nothing but slavery; artists are brought in, and once they sign on the dotted line they are RIAA's property. Then they use artists for profit; they retain profit and feed artists, just as it was done to real slaves.

      This can't last. The new model would be services to artists, where artists retain rights on their creations, make decisions, etc. and RIAA members act just as lawyers, advisers, bankers - as service industry. When I use services of a plumber he doesn't become an owner of my bathroom; if I need a lawyer I don't expect him to claim rights on my house or my car. They only get paid for the work they do.

      Unfortunately if RIAA suddenly loses its mind and decides to do honest work (as I just described) then they will have to seriously downsize. There would be no money to pay big bucks to hundreds of RIAA executives. Only people who perform actual services, who work with artists to artists' satisfaction, will be paid. So that's one reason why RIAA will stick to its guns for as long as they can. If things get worse only the top management of RIAA will be employed, and they will be paid by copyrights that RIAA wrestled out of artists over years.

    98. Re:Let it die. by blitzkrieg3 · · Score: 1

      It may be the more interesting aspect of this story isn't the record industry losing customers, but the younger generations skipping the main marketing arm of the recording industry, FM radio.

      MTV already replaced radio for this function a long time ago. You mentioned Britney Spears; I didn't hear her on the radio, rather I "heard" her first single on Carson Daily's TRL. MTV is quickly being replaced by YouTube, ala OK Go.

      Damn Brit was hot as a 17 year old school girl though (before you say anything, I was 16 at the time)

    99. Re:Let it die. by Chris+Kamel · · Score: 1

      So do you need big labels for quality? Well, you have me there, no indie label could match the musical genius of somebody like say, Brittney Spears.
      To be honest, it's not the labels' fault that most people prefer to listen to Britney (not Brittney) Spears. Sure there is marketing involved, but that's their job. Your definition of music quality is irrelevant, the labels delivered to most people music they want to listen to.

      --
      The following statement is true
      The preceding statement is false
    100. Re:Let it die. by ThePromenader · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The music industry has always been fucking us over, it's only their tactics that have changed; it is interesting to note that their 'jump the shark' moment came when they were making the most money, because it was then that they refused to evolve with the market.

      To elaborate on the evolution of 'fucking over': From its early (quite honest) goals of trying to appeal to as many listeners as possible, the music industry tried to influence and control the airwaves (airtime = records sold) to make themselves even more the only 'door' to stardom... but as we grew more educated (especially in recent years), the industry began targeting a younger and younger audience (explaining the '13-17-year-old' statistics mentioned ITFA - even the thought that this bracket is considered by them to be a major source of income is disgusting) and even 'creating' artists (with doubtful talents) especially for them. They have been stuck in this rut since the CD heyday - from the early 90's. In short, the music industry is failing because they are failing, through all their (expensive) manipulations, to keep the market mentality and structure exactly the way it was then.

      I personally don't care who gets the money when I buy an album, but hearing a catchy tune that interests me is not easy these days - I used to rely on internet radio stations, but these seem to be coming under the influence of the mainstream as well. The more popular streaming sites (Deezer, etc) will probably go that way as well.

      The irony of it all is that I can't help but thinking that the early music-industry days could be a good model: when there was only radio and records, we would buy the record to get the entire album (also instead of having to wait by the radio for hours to hear our favourite song); even when cassettes appeared, there was no comparing the quality of an original album to the sound of a cassette copy.

      If the music industry really wanted to protect itself, it would have to evolve with the market, as well as working (objectively, not profit-oriented-ly) with other organisations to find a definite definition of 'piracy' that could be put into law.

      The music industry would fare much better if it were illegal to a) make an entire album available in one place at one time for free and/or b) provide for free music above a certain quality.

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
    101. Re:Let it die. by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      - anticompetitive business practices (price fixing, etc) that have given potential customers a sour attitude towards music labels

      Really? Most people I come across aren't even aware of this, and even fewer really care so long as they get what they want from the labels.

      - destruction of diversity in radio broadcasting (something the music industry ironically pushed for) via the death of media ownership regulations mid-'90s

      Maybe you just don't live in an area with diverse radio stations. Where I live these seems to be a decent amount of diversity, although certainly the amount of said diversity is dependent on what those who are in the reception area generally want to listen to.

      And finally, the main reason:

      - replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits. Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct. And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to.

      You and I may agree on that statement, but in the end it is still completely based on aesthetics. I have seen plenty of people that apparently like this music. If no one liked it, it wouldn't even get made at all.

    102. Re:Let it die. by damburger · · Score: 1

      It isn't at all a given that expensive production begets quality in music, movies or even computer games. Content production is not a vital industry in the way energy or food production is, and does not have any 'right' to continue to exist at all. Music and other forms of entertainment will go on without these things being monetized.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    103. Re:Let it die. by damburger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ah, the struggling musician chestnut. Do you know what? Musicians should struggle, because teachers, nurses, scientists, construction workers, and every other fucker in the economy has to struggle. Musicians, for a brief period of modern history, were able to make income beyond that they were given for their performances. That era is coming to an end, and there is no a priori reason why it should not.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    104. Re:Let it die. by CaptainNerdCave · · Score: 1

      most starting bands are low on money do it part time and if you've ever listened to demo's they suck

      what is "low"? i know plenty of local-to-me artists that have made excellent recordings in their own basements and garages working fast-food. *I* have made some excellent recordings on digital and analog media.

      have you ever browsed musician's friend? ever browsed ebay? it has never been expensive to make "studio-quality" recordings. it can be simple or complicated, there are varying degrees of quality all over the board (see Rush's "Vapor Trails and Metallica's "Death Magnetic").
      1. find" a room that isn't very resonant
      2. use a practice amp for each member that isn't the drummer
      3. use a mic for each member that isn't the drummer and 2-8 mics for the drums
      4. mixer with an appropriate number of channels
      5. output to your preferred means of recording
      6. ????
      7. profit!

      one problem is that places like mp3.com have become too commercialized, not the artist and fan friendly site/s that it/they used to be.

    105. Re:Let it die. by damburger · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed. Capitalism might seem like beautiful mathematical perfection to anybody who hasn't been under its heel 50 hours a week. Libertarianism rarely survives ones first graduate job.

      And for the record, fuck yes I am anti-business. Corporations are, from my personal experience, a completely malignant form of social and economic organisation. I have found them to be places that stifle creativity, individuality, hope and happiness.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    106. Re:Let it die. by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      I actually tend to think the opposite. I have so many friends on facebook that aren't my real friends that invites over fb tend to mean less to me then a phone call, or even an email.

      But that's not the question. The question is if one of your "facebook friends" sent you a link to a song and said "have a listen", would you ?

    107. Re:Let it die. by ajlisows · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the fact that just owning the audio equipment doesn't make you capable of producing anything of quality. I watched a guy who runs a small one man studio (he used to work for a small label and now just does it in his free time) and was astonish at how much effort and know how it actually took for him to record and clean up some tracks. I'm sure it took him a long time to learn it all. So...musicians can spend their time learning how to lay tracks or they can spend their time perfecting their singing/instrument playing/songwriting/stage presence.

      Then there is the issue of marketing. A lot of guys get an idea to get a band together, write some tunes, and start getting radio play and selling out huge stadiums. They know how to do the getting the band together and writing tunes part....clueless how to get to point B. Yeah, the internet gives you a venue to advertise your music but even that requires a little knowledge of how to get people to start looking for you. A band member could probably go to school for marketing and get some experience somewhere....or he could spend his time...writing songs and perfecting his craft.

      I'm sure there are plenty of bands out there that are not expecting to make it big and just play because they like to play music but most people want to be paid money for their efforts. This idea of the "Starving Artist" singing on the street hoping someone throws him some money so he can guy a loaf of bread is romantic but unrealistic. For some bizarre reason Slashdotters (A demographic that I would guess are probably above average one the wage scale as a whole) seem to think that everyone else should just do crap for free while they get paid for their work (Yes, I know a lot of people here contribute to FOSS projects but I'm pretty sure they are either in school, have a full time job, or are comfortably retired). I can guarantee that most musicians, if they were told signing with this label would make them 10 times the money they currently make, wouldn't even blink before inking the contract.

    108. Re:Let it die. by robbiedo · · Score: 1

      That's baloney. For many centuries singers and bards were a primary entertainment, bringer of news, and preservers of history. How do you think the tales of Homer were propagated? Human history is primarily an oral history preserved through song. Why? Rhyme is more easily remembered. Certainly the modern music industry is a predicate of the industrial revolution. People, and consumers still value fixed recordings of performances; however, digital recordings are a divisible good, and do not feel they are stealing when they copy a song or album. Someone else will pay the costs. It is simply another "Tragedy of the Commons." Especially when there is the "evil" record company executive who is exploiting the artist, anyhow.

    109. Re:Let it die. by ajlisows · · Score: 1

      You know...this won't work for me as I have not a single shred of musical talent, but I have to say what you said was actually really cool.

    110. Re:Let it die. by jipn4 · · Score: 1

      You might like to come live in the current world. Like everything else in entertainment (movies, games, comics whatever), music is entertainment and professionally made. It requires time, effort and money.

      The same is true of toxic waste and WMDs.

      Lots of times people forget that record labels do lots of other work too

      Yeah, like marketing, bribery, payola, and collecting blank media fees.

      They actually find the artists that could be something

      True, in the very limited sense that they find marketable artists. Marketability doesn't usually depend much on musical or artistic quality, it depends on appearance and following trends and demographics. That's neither good for artists nor for listeners.

    111. Re:Let it die. by jipn4 · · Score: 1

      What people do not understand is the full spectrum of promotion. Kill off the record companies and promotion dies. With it go a lot of magazines that music promotion is supporting. FM Radio is going to change a lot in the US, because it is mostly a music promotion vehicle. I would expect most stations to just give up and shut down. The rest will do something else. They will not be playing popular music.

      Great, how can I help to make this happen?

    112. Re:Let it die. by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To me their ultimate "jump the shark" or "nuke the fridge" as the kids say, was when they made the music unlistenable. This is why I only buy from local independent artists now, because they are actually the ones that compose the music and therefor don't want it sounding like shit.

      I had the pleasure of helping an old friend to convert his LP collection to MP3, and we took the "Pepsi test" by comparing his original 70s albums with the "remastered" CDs you buy in stores today. Frankly I wouldn't call the "product" the CDs had on them music. Compare say....Bat Out Of Hell 1, or Queen A Night At The Opera with the 'remastered' and it seems like a bad joke. The CD sounds like it is being broadcast down a long distance telephone line with all the compression. Why would anyone want to buy product that sounds like dogshit?

      Sadly 'articles' like this prove that it doesn't matter whether you are legal or not, all they know how to do is scream "Piracy!" and demand more cash and more draconian laws. Before the loudness war I bought quite a few CDs, now I buy none. They will of course put me down as a pirate even though I wouldn't take their product even if offered for free on a silver platter. They will just keep pushing more insane laws with treasonous bribery....err I mean lobbying, while the young simply ignore the laws because they are bullshit. Maybe if they would actually put out a usable product at a decent price their sales would pick up? Nah, that's just crazy talk. I'm waiting for them to be labeled "too big to fail" and just get a check from us monthly whether we want their "product" or not.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    113. Re:Let it die. by JakartaDean · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And finally, the main reason: - replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits. Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct. And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to.

      I believe you're right, but it's just a belief, not supported by conclusive fact. However, we may on the verge of having one important data point to help settle the argument: Michael Jackson's IP collection. As I understand it, he spent about $500 million to buy the rights to a bunch of Beatles's tunes and other music. Some of the "experts" in the media were saying after he died that it could be worth as much as $2 billion now. If that turns out to be true, either:

      a) the music business is doing just fine; or

      b) the music business used to produce popular stuff, but current sales of contemporary artists are way down.

      If the second turns out to be true, the *IAA have only themselves to blame. If it's the first, then there's nothing to complain about. So, in my view, if the MJ collection has quadrupled in value, the *IAA members may have to learn to STFU. Me, I can't wait.

      --
      The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures (Junius)
    114. Re:Let it die. by ThePromenader · · Score: 1

      PS: I forgot to mention: In 'tailoring' the market to the younger age bracket, the music industry screwed themselves: the younger once put the hits of their favourite idols high on the list of their limited parent-contributed pocket-money priorities, but now that they can have the same for "free" (in their limited understanding of market and morals), today they choose to spend their money on other things.

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
    115. Re:Let it die. by D'Sphitz · · Score: 1

      That's great, let me know when your buddy's garage band has albums in every Best Buy, Wal Mart, Target and Sam Goody in the country.

    116. Re:Let it die. by damburger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What bugged me most about the loudness war was the overt contempt it showed for listeners. Those behind it clearly considered people who bought records as little more than Pavlov's dogs, who could be conditioned to respond predictably to a simple sensory stimulus (loud music). Dynamic range compression is, to me, a microcosm of pretty much everything that is rotten about western capitalism.

      --
      If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
    117. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like someone needs to setup a place wear musicians can just come, use the equipment, make their single, and burn a copy onto CD. Have the crowds and internet vote on who gets to use it, and charge nothing. Just need a backer to start it, and get the place running. I know this might cost a pretty penny at first, but giving musicians access to the equipment to level the playing field would go a long way. And when they get rich, they can maybe, hopefully donate back to the center to build more. Time for a music renaissance?

    118. Re:Let it die. by easyTree · · Score: 1

      I can see what you're saying, but the record labels are in the business of making money, and their product just happens to be music.

      It's not strictly true though, is it? It's music or anything which even vaguely fits in the same-shaped hole. This includes photo shoots of the 'musicians', all manner of bullshit flowing through the gossip mags about the musician's private life, border-line porno-shoots when the artist is on stage 'singing'; pretty much anything which will bring in money.

    119. Re:Let it die. by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      Damn Brit was hot as a 17 year old school girl though (before you say anything, I was 16 at the time)

      Yup, and Disney made millions off stupid pre/teens who thought that buying her music meant she might sleep with them (it was probably not so clearly planned out in their minds, but it's why sex sells).

    120. Re:Let it die. by defireman · · Score: 1

      The Pirate Bay is the best marketing. That, and a little digg and ./ would go a really long way.

    121. Re:Let it die. by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What mostly surprised me about the loudness war is that no artists seem to be pissed off enough about it to just include 2 CD's in the sleeve; a "compressed for airplay" and a "good" version of the same tracks.
      As I understand it, compression only happens at the very end of the mixing process and pressing an additional disc is cheap.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    122. Re:Let it die. by defireman · · Score: 1

      Yes, and what is GM now? Bankrupt.

      Good looks has a notoriously limited shelf life, and once a fad is over then the star will fade - like how GM was destroyed as the demand of gas guzzling SUVs dropped off a cliff.

      Letting the music promotion industry die will probably mean the death of mass produced garbage with stars that are more known for their looks than their talent. Good riddance.

    123. Re:Let it die. by anotherzeb · · Score: 1

      Surely to some degree, the DIY ethic that came with punk started to make the music industry obsolete. I agree that it was the more specialist shops that stocked the records, so if your nearest record shop was a big chain, it took a trip to the nearest reasonable sized town or mail order to get your treasured piece of vinyl, but it started something that didn't end in the 70s. Add to that the reduced price of getting CDs made, software such as Audacity and the internet and there's much more potential these days for bands to make a living through their music. It might not be much of a living, but it isn't for an obscure band that happens to be signed to one of the major labels either - I know people signed to the likes of EMI who need a second job to keep a roof over their heads - and they don't even own their own songs.

      The way it seems to me, the industry is good for getting airplay and CDs into shops, but there's an increasing number of radio programs (in the UK at least) that are playing independent bands and shops seem to have more open minds, so the point of the industry seems to be vanishing. It might mean that managers become more powerful for the likes of Britney, who I doubt would be up to sorting things out for herself, but I don't see a problem if "artists" like that disappear or their managers have to do a bit more work than getting their pictures into the tabloids. My guess is that the major labels will have to think of something big to return to their glory days and not turn into companies that have litigation providing a major part of their income. They will continue to get most of the money from top ten acts, but it keeps getting easier to get music that isn't promoted as part of the mainstream, especially with electronic distribution.

      --
      Good luck sometimes arrives disguised as bad
    124. Re:Let it die. by bemymonkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Hi, the 1950's called and they want their arguments back. I know a few musicians who can afford their own studio setups that are just as good as anything you'll find in the 'major labels'. Studio time isn't that big of a barrier to entry anymore."

      I have a hard time believing the bolded part... unless these people bought the studio instead of a house, it's unlikely that an unsigned musician (especially a professional one!) can afford to put that much money into a studio. Sure, home recording setups for say under $10k are getting better daily, but there's still a long way to go until they're at studio quality. Most people just don't realize that the acoustic properties of a recording studio are one of the more expensive parts... having a closet full of $100k worth of mics and outboard isn't worth shit unless you've got a decent sounding room :)

    125. Re:Let it die. by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      That is assuming your friends have the same music taste. I can count on my friends to recommend me new singer/songwriter stuff but I don't EVER expect them to recommend metal or club music, both styles I like as well.

      Realistically, word of mouth will only filter through the most popular tracks, not necesarily what I like best myself.

      That being said, it's still better than record companies that ONLY ever advertise those same popular tracks.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    126. Re:Let it die. by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Why is this? I know this probably sounds hopelessly naive, but where do these "marketing" funds go to? I'm not talking about advertising a live show. More along the lines of how any of us ever heard of Miss Spears in the first place.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payola

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    127. Re:Let it die. by griffinfinity · · Score: 1

      'Record Companies' are gone, along with 'records'. The magazines are history as well. Expect to see them disappear soon. 'Radio' will evaporate as well. As for promotion, that is already been moved from the old labels to the new kings -> concert promoters. Doubt it? Check and see who has signed to Live Nation recently.

      Bands will be less inclined to care about record sales, than say the proceeds from tours and merch. Why? There are twice as many people in the world than when the Eagles recorded on vinyl. The gate and licensing will be all that matters. You'll merely have to fill the seats and bags of t-shirts et al. to rake in the $$$. Oh, and the bands dearly care about the money. Make no mistake about that. Ask U2 (moralists one and all), who has one company who has to pay the other (both owned by U2), to keep more of the loot.

      This debate has lacked the element of distinguishing the phases of 'recorded music'. Wax cylinders, vinyl, tape, digital files stored on a disc. Each era has brought us closer to the day when music is no longer physically owned, stored on shelves, and fought over. This is why we have taken the technology to this level. Many other things that have traditionally been purchased in a store will no longer be practical to place in boxes and attics. Accept the new era, YOU have driven it!

      BTW, artists have been getting duped by everyone (including themselves), not just the record companies over the years. It's not so much WHO makes the $$$. If that was the case, musicians would go to school before starting bands, and learn read CONTRACTS as well as music. Case in point, Grand Funk Railroad, one of the biggest bands of the late sixties. They fired their manager three weeks before his contract ran out. A clause in the contract stated Knight kept all the music rights if he was fired. There are tons of similar stories.

      Pholks, we are in a new era. Wake up. You want the outlaw 'X', fine, crank up the generators and join the UFO misfit broadcasting in the desert.

    128. Re:Let it die. by TheLink · · Score: 1

      > The SM58 is a stage mic. It produces sound that is usable for demos or a "raw" sound for punk. For vocals, you will be needing something a lot better that has the headroom and audio fidelity that professional audio requires.

      Professional audio maybe.

      But commercial audio is what is produced nowadays. Most people seem happy to listen to mp3s of recordings that have had their dynamic range compressed.

      It's a waste to spend lots of money recording stuff at 24 bit @ 96 kilosamples/sec only to compress it to a 48dB range for "easy listening".

      --
    129. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also risk management, some bands don't want to take out a loan and invest in the things they need, or slowly work to it, which is where people who invest in music come in pretty handy.

    130. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can guarantee that most musicians, if they were told signing with this label would make them 10 times the money they currently make, wouldn't even blink before inking the contract.

      Since, by definition, "promotion" can only work for a very small percentage of musicians that model is a scam for the vast majority of musicians who will never even get the "opportunity".

      In a saturated market - and the entertainment industries are very saturated - promotion of one artist means, exactly, the demotion of another. In other words the music promotion "industry", as distinct from the creators, are just scammers. Just an arms race to get mind share where everybody except the arms dealers lose.

    131. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Music written from the 17th century onwards was basically contract work written for rich people. Bach has written most of his works being sponsored. Mozart, too. The whole idea that Music must not be paid for is ludicrous.

      Even the Minnesänger in Medieval times (12th - 15th century) had pretty well paid jobs at the royal and imperial courts.

      That's how it should be: quality music, art and literature should be created on commission from private and government grants -- just like scientific research continues to be done.

    132. Re:Let it die. by elronxenu · · Score: 1

      Bjorn Lynne.

      He's one of my favourites - he's an accomplished artist with songs and online sales and he also runs a music licensing business with, IMHO, fair terms for the artists.

      He didn't pay me anything to promote him just then. Internet advertising isn't always expensive.

      I'm not even going to bother to offer a link to his site, but I'll bet dollars to donuts he makes money off this post.

    133. Re:Let it die. by tingeber · · Score: 1

      The big labels are almost exclusively distribution industries. What they create is almost exclusively a "product", ie an abominy that has nothing to do with music and everything to do with selling the product to the largest demographic.
      The music as we know it (or knew it) is still being born and created as it always has been: from talented musicians that bust their balls and sweat their way to getting heard by as much people as possible. What happens then is they get signed to a label. But it's almost always a small indie spring-board label, that will get a bit more people to hear their music. Then, if they are really good (but mostly if they sell enough) they'll get picked up by the big guys since they have proven to be a product.
      So, in all, I'm happy to see the big guys die since they don't really create anything of value, except a distribution infrastructure. But we already have the web.

      --
      oh my god... it's full of stars!
    134. Re:Let it die. by bemymonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

      No.

    135. Re:Let it die. by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's just my opinion, but I don't believe in setting boundaries for what kind of musical instruments you can and cannot use. If it produces sound, you can use it. If it doesn't produce sound, you can use it as well.

      Music being an artistic expression, I can only judge it by how much I like it. Whether a track was recorded using "false" techniques or which recordlabel the musicians signed up with don't say anything about how much I like their music.

      Surely you don't judge paintings on the type of paintbrushes used nor literature on which company is the publisher?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    136. Re:Let it die. by c-reus · · Score: 1

      I second that. I've found out about a few artists that sounded really good from the Last.fm radio - Puscifer and Liv Kristine, for example. The recommendations channel isn't free but usually I just type in a tag like "old school rock" and listen to whatever comes up. If the official last.fm client is used, you can even skip songs you don't like or even ban an artist.

      Note that the last.fm radio is free only in a few countries (UK, USA and Germany, if I remember correctly). Hotspot Shield can fix this, though.

    137. Re:Let it die. by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Not to get into the technical details, but there are some physical limitations preventing LP's from being as highly compressed as CD's can be (and are) compressed.

      As I understand it, if you have good equipment, you'd be better of buying an LP then copying it to CD yourself than buying the CD.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    138. Re:Let it die. by MadKeithV · · Score: 1

      For example urban music wouldn't have the same penetration into the suburban markets without record company promotion.

      The whole point is that it wouldn't have the same penetration, at the cost of other good music that may be better suited to people. With the internet, music finds its way to the people that actually like it enough.

      Without TV, radio and movies forcing the latest Transformers 2 soundtrack song down your throat continuously, how popular would it REALLY be? How much of that artificial popularity could be channeled to multiple smaller bands that make equally interesting music that is a better fit for some of the people that kind of like that soundtrack?

      The "underground" music scene actually manages to get the word out quite well on good bands, even if they are small. Two examples from the metal scene: Cloudkicker and TesseracT. These guys are now very well known in the circles that like this kind of music. They won't get as rich off it as say 50 cent or Britney Spears, but thinking that kind of riches is reserved for all major label people is moronic anyway.

    139. Re:Let it die. by ardor · · Score: 1

      the big label records AREN'T there to fuck everyone over. They're just best at making everything that work

      No one disputes that. In fact, this is the very problem. Big labels want to make money. No matter what. Enforce DRM, put musicians under draconian contracts, burn out new pop singers, who cares, there are more they can burn out, etc.

      One particular example is Britney Spears. If you look up her early singing performances in YouTube, it is hard to believe this is the same girl. She had a great voice back then. But rumors say that she was forced to change her tone in her pop releases. Essentially, she was forced to destroy her voice.

      Another example are the contracts forced upon pop casting show candidates. "We own every music you make in the next 36 months", "you must appear at concerts XYZ, on talk shows ABC, you must advertise for company Z ..."

      Make no mistake. The shining exterior of the music industry covers the cold, tyrannical, heartless 100% business interior.

      --
      This sig does not contain any SCO code.
    140. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love it how the previous comment got moderated down as troll to hide opinions that actually reflect reality :)

      No, that post has very little to do with reality. The reality is that the vast majority of artists are negatively impacted by the few artists that the record companies do promote. In a saturated market, and the entertainment industries are very saturated, the promotion of one artist means another must be demoted. The reality is that the record companies do a lot more harm than good.

    141. Re:Let it die. by easyTree · · Score: 1

      I've got 7 fans and I'm happy.

      T,FTFY :D

    142. Re:Let it die. by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Bhahahah. Are you serious? For guitar amps, OK. For anything else? They're more useful as hammers than as microphones...

      Serious mics start somewhere around here: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/R0DE-NT2A-LargeCapsule-Studio-Condenser-Microphone?sku=271597

      Sounds pretty good on guitars, as a secondary bass drum mic, and on vocals. But don't forget, this is pretty much entry level...

    143. Re:Let it die. by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Yep, even 1dB or so louder will make most people say that a system sounds 'better' in an A/B test, even if the two systems are identical.

      This why studios insist that all music goes through the compressor these days - loudness is king to the casual listener.

      --
      No sig today...
    144. Re:Let it die. by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Yes, Autotune is available for live use, but have you heard what it can do in the studio? Being able to sing or play an instrument is no prerequisite for releasing a triple A platinum ultra gold album with extra sauce.

      The fact of the matter is that many currently popular bands have decent sounding albums (ignoring the fact that they're compressed to fuck), but sound horrible on stage (usually in the vocals department). That's Autotune at work ;)

    145. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Word of mouth only goes so far, and advertising is expensive.

      Any music can be promoted by advertising, but only good music gets promoted by word of mouth. I'm totally fine with the disappearance of commercial advertising of music.

    146. Re:Let it die. by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Forgot to say, I *REALLY* like your song 'Identification'. Please make more... :D

    147. Re:Let it die. by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      AFAIK, they often use the same squashed mastering, just turned down a bit.

    148. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but most people want to be paid money for their efforts.

      You're numerically illiterate. One artist can entertain millions of people. They may get paid. That leaves many other artists in those millions who don't get paid. Any argument based on "artists must be paid" is bizarre when in any realistic, copyright-based, winner-take-all economy the vast majority of artists are not going to get paid.

    149. Re:Let it die. by Falconhell · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dont even start me on modern "Mastering" techniques because it seems there no such thing.
      The modern method is compress evertything all the time, eliminating the dynamic range of the music.

      Drummers definitely do set the volume, and to some extent the louder they play the better. When one is running 12-16 open mics, the accumulative noise from all of them becomes significant, so the louder the level coming from a given mic, the less noise in the mix.

      A soft drummer does not get the same tones as a louder one. When gained up to reach the correct level more noise is induced to a mix.

      Drums often have 6-8 mics so a significant increase in noise occours and another problem ,"spill" the unwanted sound from other nearby instruments is also increased.

      Not to say there should be no dynamic though, good musicians and (-: can indeed play well both loudly and softly-at the relevant times.

      Some musical styles do not really work at to quiet a volume. I have played in bands too, and I like a fairly loud stage volume myself.....

      There is an impact to bass produced from huge ammounts of speaker cone that no smaller system can emulate.

      Oh and BTW, Shhhh, civilians are not supposed to know about the pschycho acoustic thing....they might realise...the truth!!!

      What was that about getting my shearing checked?

    150. Re:Let it die. by easyTree · · Score: 1

      *REALLY* :D

    151. Re:Let it die. by rdebath · · Score: 1

      The two of you have pretty much put what's wrong with copyright in a nutshell here.

      If Mr J Random can make a passable copy of your product (with special secret sauce) without a business loan (or similar) your business has a serious problem. The product of "music business" has never been music, it used to be promotion, distribution and mass copying services.

      There was recently a piece in the paper about the police being proud of convicting some family for estimated £7,000,000 of copying of movies, music and porn (lots of porn) DVDs. There was this picture of the PCs each with 12 DVD recorders in them. I would estimate that's maybe £600 per machine, £1k if you want a good one. That's personal loan or savings range, not a business loan. That's copying services.

      Distribution; well you know that, that's the internet: tenner a month.

      Even the last product "music business" can now sell, promotion, is very devalued. It's the same thing that newspaper and TV adverts used to be good for.

      So we're back to the law.

      Copyright is supposed to protect you from some other company throwing money at the problem and getting to the buyers first. If a your official product (DVDs) can be copied and manufactured in a garage in Chingford before your multimillion company can get it on the shelves you're as good as dead.

      And do remember, these guys are the ones that couldn't stop, they fell into the trap of 'just a little bit more', if they had decided that £6,000,000 was enough they wouldn't have been caught ... and even now; a big chunk of that £7M is supposed to be out of reach, is say £4M enough compensation for 4y work and 4y in a cushy jail ...

      So not legal, but cost effective, well ... not for me I'm addicted to Slashdot.

    152. Re:Let it die. by easyTree · · Score: 1

      maybe... just maybe, they should start looking at, oh, I don't know, the music they try to sell?

      CraZy-talk. that'll never fly. ru on drugs?

    153. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      but how do you find people to distribute it to?

      ...um, play shows?

      music used to be about playing music. everyone here is, for the most part, talking about chances to record and then sell songs.

      you go play your ass off if music is what you want to do. maybe you end up making enough money to get by or even do a little better, maybe you don't and you have to give it up.

      this idea that you can squeak in some recording time, cut some tracks and sell them for millions is a product of this american idol age we live in. fucking new kids on the block. "paying your dues" was something we used to expect to do, particularly if you were talking about PLAYING music.

    154. Re:Let it die. by SlashWombat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lets face it, the Music Industry have only themselves to blame. At one time, the various musical genre's could be counted on one hand. Around the 1970's, all of a sudden the "Music industry" added 10 or more "new" ones. (Lets see, Punk, Hip-Hop, Rap, new wave, ... ).

      Lets face it, the disposable income of the music buying public has been significantly impacted by many things (IE: mobile phones, Computer Video games ...) Now with technology moving on, there is significantly more competition for their product, yet they refuse to acknowledge this competition. While I doubt that the industry will totally wither away, there will be a long period of adjustment. (Good riddance to the loser's. Perhaps some genuine competition will occur with those that remain.)

    155. Re:Let it die. by aaandre · · Score: 1

      It's a big brush we're painting with. Some record labels whose vision is to truly support musicians and make a reasonable profit by offering that support, may be an instrument in the co-creation of art that they then turn into product. The big labels, however, have a big racket going on. Of course their profit will be going down. They started by being the only game in town and by setting the prices without competition.

      We, the public, the ones that connect to and enjoy the art created by our communities, are sick and tired of having to work extra hard in order to feed the infinite greed of this monster of a middle men. We want our appreciation to go to the creators, not the ones that resell their creation. The resellers are just that, merchants, service providers.

      In the example of music, merchants are asking for a very high price without offering the corresponding value, with the argument that if prices are going down compared to the time when the public had no other options, they are losing profit.

      The way I see it all that time they were stealing from the artists and the musicians.

    156. Re:Let it die. by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Is Youtube sustainable though?

      Would be a shame if they go bust and there's no replacement.

      For one it'll be harder to listen to some random guitarist play in a bar in Singapore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-g45767Tbk

      --
    157. Re:Let it die. by ppanon · · Score: 1

      Why aren't teens listening to 80's music now?

      I think I've heard more than a few re-mixed danced tracks or covers of 80s music recently. The music industry's always used covers, but I would be interested in seeing statistics as to whether they're doing more "reboots" due to a lack of creativity these days. Every now and then classic music by bands like Queen gets rediscovered by a new generation, you overhear some kid on the bus say "I just heard this great new band called ..." and start to feel old.
      As to why kids aren't being as exposed to original 80's music on the airwaves? partly because it's what many of their parents listen to and you're supposed to rebel against your parents. But almost certainly a factor is that it's easier to rake in the cash on a "new release" album at >$18 than on an older classic album being discounted at $9.99.

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    158. Re:Let it die. by aaandre · · Score: 1

      Advertising money goes into exposing the public to a specific message. In this case, our attention, is the product. Media corporations have monetized on the attention of the public by buying the laws that allow them to reach us via the different mediums, including the physical space of our own living environments.

    159. Re:Let it die. by aaandre · · Score: 1

      True. People with money are very scared to lose what they think they have. So no risks.

      Risk takers either have little to lose or have a strong vision and are seemingly not ruled by the money. So corporation find such people and give them an outlet. Like John Stewart for example.

    160. Re:Let it die. by funkatron · · Score: 1

      It doesn't vary that much round here. Nickelback means 4:30 or 6:30 or 8:30 or ... You must have good stations.

      --
      "Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
    161. Re:Let it die. by Steve001 · · Score: 1

      Falconhell wrote as part of a post:

      Pete Townsend of The Who had hearing damage, which occoured due to excessive headphone volume in the recording studio, not live gigs.

      I remember hearing in a TV program (I think it was on VH1) that Pete Townsend's hearing was damaged during The Who's performance of "My Generation" on The Smothers Brothers Show. An explosion was set up to go off in the drumset at the end of the appearance, but it set up to be far too powerful. When the explosion went off it damaged Pete Townsend's hearing.

      The following is a link to a YouTube video of the performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9-JdubfUCw

    162. Re:Let it die. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      This reminds me of the Fullscreen / Widescreen discs in some early DVD releases.

      Made a great 2 for 1 deal, sell off or give away whichever format you don't watch to whoever does. The industry realized their mistake there quickly! They were virtually teaching people how to illegally share content. It was a hoot ;D

      I'd say "feel free to trick them into that doh moment again", but.. yeah CD's are so 1990's. :P

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    163. Re:Let it die. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      (in their apparently shrewd understanding of market and morals), today they choose to spend their money on other things.

      Ambiguity cleared up, don't thank me. ;3

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    164. Re:Let it die. by BlackBloq · · Score: 0

      I've listened to a lot of demos and none of them sucked... Why? Cuz they were all at this thing called PERFORMANCES! You know... where you can hear if they can actually PLAY MUSIC. Where are you getting these demos? You are big daddy fat music producer who gets Cd's in the mail every day, or are you downloading all groups that some blog nerd says is cool? Really where are you getting these demos.....try leaving the house!

    165. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forgot to say, I *REALLY* like your song 'Identification'. Please make more... :D

      Thanks, that's very kind of you. I'm working on another song now but it does take a bit of time.

    166. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's why MP3's are so popular. RIAA pigs-at-the-trough will say and do anything to rationalize their piggish existence. Fact is, that quality you like to claim is so important is merely "golden ear" talk. i.e. almost completely irrational.

    167. Re:Let it die. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      Alright, I'll... put you on the mailing list. Why did you want to know again?

      I presume from your post that you have INTERNET access, rite?

      Is your Wal-Mart out of blanks this week or something!?

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    168. Re:Let it die. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      Look, someone needs to send /. audiophiles the memo that the 80/20% rule applies to sound quality just like everything else. Nobody signs on with RIAA specifically to market $15 albums to your <1% of the rich American population home theater setup.

      Claiming that bands sign on with RIAA to obtain sound quality is like saying restaurants franchise with McD's to enhance their culinary appeal.

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    169. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or well, if you like to, stop listening to commercially produced music and go listen in the streets; they're nice sometimes and you can tip those who you think are good.

      That is exactly what I intend to do. I have just discovered Jamendo, they have a metric fuckton of quality CC-licensed music there. The recording industry is obsolete.

    170. Re:Let it die. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      This is one of the most insightful things I've heard on slashdot.

      The truth of the matter is, we don't need the RIAA because WE can make content. This was why Youtube was initially so popular (and where it got it's name from). Nowadays, there is so much FUD about copyright infringement, and nobody can afford going to court just to prove that a video of them alone in a blank room is devoid of infringement.

      But it's so easy to forget that content comes from PEOPLE, not from companies. It doesn't have to be polished because Worse is Better. Being available is more important than being perfected. And that is where most content industries get it wrong these days, they try to prevent content from being available. Their own content, and your ameture content whenever they can as it might satisfy audiences who would otherwise crave corporate mash.

      So, rise up people! Create! Produce! Share! Collaborate! Play the piano in the living room! Entertain one another to weaken the hold of this multinational industry who takes it upon themselves to monopolize all entertainment options.

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    171. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'm fine with that.

      As long as the same applies to software, films and books.

    172. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      crap dude - more like "nickelback - must be quarter-'til or quarter-past the hour.

      :/

      stupid clearchannel.

    173. Re:Let it die. by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      It's not about audiophiles - it's about people who don't use Logitech speakers for $30 and onboard soundcards with 128kbps MP3s. And even with those, anyone with halfway functional hearing could spot the difference between a properly mixed and mastered studio recording and the stuff your band's sound tech pumps out in his "studio".

      There's just a huge difference between what's doable in a home studio environment and an actual studio that's built as an actual studio from the ground up.

      Claiming that bands sign on with RIAA to obtain sound quality is like saying restaurants franchise with McD's to enhance their culinary appeal.

      Of course, no band signs on to a major record label because of the sound quality - but that doesn't mean that the quality isn't good (let's just ignore the compression issues :D). I've never heard of a band going with a certain record label because "they have better sound quality" ;)

    174. Re:Let it die. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      Here is an interesting thought. Why doesn't someone on Slashdot come up with a creative way for the RIAA or MPAA to make lots of money given the current market trends? We could make it a contest. The winner gets a big cut in the profits. Just remember, if you do come up with a winning idea, I want my finders fee :-)

      Uh.. "why don't we"? Maybe.. because if we post such a great idea here, the companies in question would simply do that or similar, and not pay us a dime? ;D

      As for me, I have tons of ideas and I've never been shy to share them, but It is hard to legally accomplish much of anything innovative in the copyright labyrinth built by the current cartel.

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    175. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > False? In what sense? We have been "manipulating" sound since the beginning of recorded music

      If they can`t play it live, it`s not music. It`s a work of fiction.

    176. Re:Let it die. by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Hence you need a powerful system capable of exceeding the off stage level. Turning down the volume is not an option in this scenario, unless the band is willing to turn down on stage, and let me tell you that virtually never happens, or if it does only for a few minutes then they are back up again.

      I remember a gig of The Machine (A Pink Floyd tribute band) in Essen, Germany, where they did just that - turned down the volume after 5 minutes of the show - because the bass sound sucked. They kept the lower volume for the rest of the show and I can assure you, this was the best performance sound quality-wise I ever attended in my whole life (and as far the music goes, if you closed your eyes it was the real Pink Floyd). Too bad they didn't do the same trick at their previous gigs.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    177. Re:Let it die. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      So you are pretty much saying that because copying electronic content is possible, its free to do?

      As in, people are free to make money from pirated copies by selling those on the street?

      I'm not certain if GP would own up to as much, but I will.

      I maintain that such behavior is in fact perfectly acceptable (up to but not passing the point where you deceive people into thinking the label endorses your copy in case it is defective in some way, which would be the separate offense of fraud).

      I do not feel as though my tax dollars should be wasted protecting a dying industry from the inevitable penny ante concerns of bootlegging. If you attempt to sell bits as though they were a scarce commodity, and then lobby and sue the world into pretending they are handling a scarce commodity, then you simply deserve to fail.

      Besides, 99/100 consumers who are unconcerned about copyright would nab a copy online for free instead of paying for plastic on the street. So, I don't see the bootleggers having any profit margins either in developed countries (and police have never hassled them to begin with in less developed areas :P)

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    178. Re:Let it die. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      I have. I don't feel that I can give money to the major record companies in good conscience.

      On top of that, I simply can't bloody afford albums that cost more than DVD's anymore. Hell, I can't afford the DVD's either. We are in a recession, remember?

      You're ugly, but you intrigue me.

      I so do not, I'm just a boring bat. :P

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    179. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If an artist can learn the science and art of their instruments well enough to make good music, they can learn too how to record it properly."

      This is like expecting an actor to write the script, play their part, direct the film and operate the camera at the same time.

      Sure, you can do it, the problem is that the results are generally not very good.

    180. Re:Let it die. by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      I've never heard of a band going with a certain record label because "they have better sound quality" ;)

      Well, that's half my point. Now extend the fast food analogy to the consumers. Modern pop bands are so digitally post synthed, before the compression that the quality of the original source becomes irrelevant.

      Final point: The Brother's Chaps of Homestarrunner.com fame have a sound room. That's from working full time on a free, flash animation site selling nothing but tee shirts, and DVD copies of cartoons you can have for free online. They did NOT start out with a soundroom, and as mentioned in the interview you can hear this by checking their old material.

      My core point is: good content survives poor delivery.

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
    181. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Artist merely need to become employees of the publishers, like the rest of the world. They are not a special case, nor particularly highly skilled.

      The reason the 90s music sales were so high was CDs were well and truly established and people were double/triple dipping to replace their cassettes and vinyl. Once that gravy train left town, it has always been clear old catalogues were going to be hit hard.

    182. Re:Let it die. by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      All that expensive equipment and then the result is compressed into a "near cd quality" 128kbps mp3 file...

      Also, how an "audio quality hard disk" is different from a standard desktop or server HDD?

    183. Re:Let it die. by KevinColyer · · Score: 1

      No, I wouldn't. But I have listened to a friends choice of music on Last.fm.

    184. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you dont need big labels for quality. But lets face it; most starting bands are low on money, do it part time and if you've ever listened to demo's they suck.

      Never listened to Demo. Are they really that bad?

    185. Re:Let it die. by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      MTV already replaced radio for this function a long time ago. You mentioned Britney Spears; I didn't hear her on the radio, rather I "heard" her first single on Carson Daily's TRL. MTV is quickly being replaced by YouTube, ala OK Go. Damn Brit was hot as a 17 year old school girl though (before you say anything, I was 16 at the time)

      I'm no rabid Britney fan, but Baby One More Time was a damn good pop song. I heard it on the radio a couple of times and went out to buy it before I even knew what she looked like (I didn't know if she was black or white then).

      I'm kind of ashamed that when I saw the cover I almost had second thoughts about buying what looked like an over-commercialised tween/teen-oriented pop single (and even then I kind of copped out by buying it on cassette instead of on CD, when it was otherwise a song I easily liked enough to justify the extra money).

      Was it a good song due to her or the songwriting/production team? I wasn't really bothered. (FWIW, I later found out that they were Swedish, which explains the solidly Europop underpinnings beneath the Rn'B trimmings).

      She's done some other decent tracks as well- first time I heard "Toxic" on the radio I didn't know it was her, and I thought it was damn good.

      I'm certainly not denying that she's also released an awful lot of disposable pap, but I don't agree with the "Britney Spears automatically equals crap" argument.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    186. Re:Let it die. by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      I'm fine with that.

      As long as the same applies to software, films and books.

      I'm pretty sure it does apply to most software, especially with the accelerated obsolescence in that particular realm.

    187. Re:Let it die. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I agree. This is why I think that the record labels will turn into advertising agencies. A band will sign with a label (without turning over copyright control) to promote a new album. The label will handle advertising on TV, radio, newspapers, the Internet, etc. In return, the label will get a (small) cut of the profits from the album sales. If the band doesn't like how the label handled the advertising, they can leave for another label without worrying about having their back-catalog of songs under the old label's control. If the band does like how the label handled the advertising, they'll resign for their next album. Sure, the money won't be as good as the take-control-of-everything-and-bleed-the-artists-dry money that they're getting now, but it'll be that or go out of business.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    188. Re:Let it die. by Sun.Jedi · · Score: 1

      It's not distribution, its ownership of the copyright and the ability to charge $$ for it. The distribution issue is pointless because (as I understand it) the commercial reproduction for profit is where the copyright laws were intended to protect against and "sharing among friends" for free was not protected. Distribution may have brought us all to the point of redefining "friends", but only so we can be charged.

      Its clearly a losing battle though. If it hits my audio gear or pc, it's MINE.

    189. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is no anti-business sentiment on slashdot. There is an anti-getting-screwed-over sentiment. I don't know when we started equating "not buying their bullshit" with "anti-business", but it's a pretty scary trend.

      I'm not a big fan of getting screwed over either. I just don't advocate governmental intervention to deal with companies/industries that have screwed me over. I just don't do business with them. I don't buy music from RIAA labels, I don't do business with credit card companies that have mandatory arbitration agreements, I don't do business with American Airlines (a rather long story but suffice it to say they screwed me over once too), etc, etc.

      If you've never worked in a corporate environment, it would be hard to believe how twisted some people are.

      I've worked in corporate environments for the last 15 years and my main observation is that they are infested with bureaucracy (too much management), indecision/inertia (we've always done it THIS WAY...) and Dilbert stereotypes (particularly the PHB, marketing guys, and Wally). I don't think most of them are really "twisted" though. I think it's a side effect of any large organization. Take a look at any Governmental agency and you'll see the same thing -- except in those agencies you'll find more Wally's because they know that they have lifetime employment if they don't screw up too bad.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    190. Re:Let it die. by renoX · · Score: 1

      >- replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices,

      (sarcasm)Of course in 1999 (the best year for the music industry), 'hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists"' didn't exist!(/sarcasm)

      >Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct.

      Maybe (though other hyperproduced "artists" didn't make a nervous breakdown), what is the relationship with the music sales?

      >And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to.

      Given that they sell a lot of record, I'd say that many people disagree: even if it's artificial the result can sounds good, so quit your elitist rant..

    191. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      stupid clearchannel

      I've always considered that to be a misnomer, myself. They should rename themselves to "MurkyChannel Communications" because they're far, far from "Clear" unless you use the Scientology "definition" of the word.

    192. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the implicit "downside" is that lots of people will lose jobs as a result. The industry collapsing is going to leave a kind of dispersed "mining town" in its wake, and what will these people do? There isn't an online equivalent unless you consider mp3 blogging whose revenues could hardly support the needs of a starving third-worldian.

    193. Re:Let it die. by Sun.Jedi · · Score: 1

      Now it seems like every CD is marketed by TV ads

      Where are you still seeing TV ads? Even on channels I watch that actually have them, they are unceremoniously ignored. ;)

      Thats probably why marketing is so expensive. LOL.

    194. Re:Let it die. by GrahamCox · · Score: 1

      It's called fashion. People (especially the young) like what everyone else in their peer group likes - it's an irrational, unthinking positive feedback loop.

    195. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Libertarianism rarely survives ones first graduate job.

      Liberalism rarely survives ones first paycheck and the discovery of how much of your money the Government is taking from you. To borrow a quote, "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain."

      And for the record, fuck yes I am anti-business. Corporations are, from my personal experience, a completely malignant form of social and economic organisation. I have found them to be places that stifle creativity, individuality, hope and happiness.

      Got a better suggestion? For all it's flaws our capitalist system has produced much of the wealth and technology that we take for granted. I've yet to see a system that I'd rather live under.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    196. Re:Let it die. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      >>>This reminds me of the Fullscreen / Widescreen discs in some early DVD releases. Made a great 2 for 1 deal, sell off or give away whichever format you don't watch to whoever does.
      >>>

      FALSE.

      Please don't spread misinformation. I have several of these fullscreen/widescreen DVDs, and they did NOT include two discs. Instead they include ONE disc that is double-sided and therefore impossible to do what you claim (sell one disc; keep the other).

      As for the music loudness problem, there is an extremely easy fix:

      Most studios already release an CD/album version (typically 5 minutes) and a radio/single version(typically 4 minutes) of their songs so all they need to do is release the CD with proper mixing, while the radio version is volume-compressed to make FM studios happy.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    197. Re:Let it die. by kimvette · · Score: 1

      And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to.

      That's not true. With the help of voice processors almost anyone can sing and sound good. What do you mean Britney has nothing worth listening to? She has two or three songs that are actually pretty good, and it took her only (according to Wikipedia) six albums to produce that much material that doesn't sound like total crap. Now that's talent! ;)

      Seriously though, you're right. It's unlikely there will ever be another band like Pink Floyd, Queen, Yes, The Police, Genesis, like any of the other dinosaurs who are considered musical genius. With labels looking for instant hits and unwilling to take risks to create new dinosaurs (and I mean dinosaur as in huge, not old) with long-term success, and their over-compressing of the dynamic range of the music, we're not going to see (hear) many if any masterpieces. It's going to be a combination of the Indie labels, a LOT of self-promotion through a lot of live gigs in key venues, and luck.

      There won't be another Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, or Johnny Mathis for the same reason. Labels are not interested in long-term investments. Now, these artists are in a completely different category but the point still remains; none were an instant success. They made it because the labels were still trying to figure out the industry and actually had to make long-term investments.

      I love progressive and psychedelic rock because with the structure they are almost akin to a modern form of classical. I like concept albums intended to be listened to straight through. I love music with purpose. Labels today hate all of that because they don't catch on instantly but take 2-3 albums to gain critical mass, the tracks are often much longer than the 2-3 minutes today's ADHD society has the attention span for, and they require far more talent.

      Why not just have in-house session musicians and writers and use some scantily-clad teenager (soon-to-be drug addict and slut) to "perform?" She doesn't even have to sing! Let her just lip sync. The target market won't appreciate the difference anyhow. Besides, you can market toys, clothes, and so forth based on the "artist's" image you conjured up. Make fast money now!

      Actually that's the whole problem with the economy as a whole. The mortgage industry, run by baby-boomers, loved Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac because they could make a really fast buck and screw the younger generations. The major corps run by baby boomers LOVED outsourcing offshore because they could lower their costs and boost short-term profits so they could rake in obscene bonuses. The problem is, now we gen-xers and the upcoming Gen-y are totally fucked. We are inheriting an insane amount of debt and are almost unemployable because our country doesn't MANUFACTURE anything any more.

      The labels' thinking is symptomatic of the economy of the whole; short-term greed is what is killing their long-term viability.

      What will it take to fix? Either our parents' generation needs to get a clue, we need to start speaking up and taking the corporations and politicians back, or there needs to be a revolution. Unfortunately so many of us gen-xers have drunk the kool-aid our hippie parents taught in school so all too many of us really believe in the "global" line of thinking, and all too many of us think deregulation and socialization is a good thing. Why do ANY of us think there is any such thing as a free lunch?

      The labels are entitlement thinkers. They had a great business model for so many years that they think they are entitled to it. Where is my entitlement? Where is yours?

      Offshore all the jobs and deregulate key areas like medicine and the utilities, drop tariffs and encourage offshoring while our "trading partners" (including "most favored" trading partners) keep very high tariffs on imports, and there won't BE any money in the average person's budget for music purchases.

      I know I seemingly went

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    198. Re:Let it die. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>And for the record, fuck yes I am anti-business. Corporations are, from my personal experience, a completely malignant form of social and economic organisation.
      >>>

      Yes true, very very true. But a government-run monopoly (like medicare) is far far worse. At least with corporations the consumer can exert power via the "vote" called the dollar. Consumers can literally Kill a corporation by withholding their dollars (see Circuit City). Some may blame CC's demise on the economy, but I blame it on maltreatment of customers and finally the people got fed-up. They stopped buying CC's shit and CC went out of business.

      So a corporation has to keep the population happy, and listen to the people's desires, and therefore as close to a pure democracy as we're likely to see. But government? Not so much. Politicians are essentially lifetime employees - they need not fear us peons. And of course being a monopoly, the government offers no other choices. (Can I choose somebody other than the U.S. to deliver my mail? Nope.)

      Yes corporations are malignant.

      But government is downright evil. "...a troublesome servant and a deadly master." - George Washington.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    199. Re:Let it die. by Lostlander · · Score: 1

      And politicians don't get paid by lobbyists to make certain laws. That's called a bribe. Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's not happening they simply pay for advertising or promote a concert and provide artists where the station gets a big cut. To think that radio stations don't get paid by the recording industry to play certain songs over others is to live in a dream world where everyone follows the spirit of the law and not just the letter.

    200. Re:Let it die. by Nursie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Liberalism rarely survives ones first paycheck and the discovery of how much of your money the Government is taking from you. To borrow a quote, "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain."

      What is this "liberalism" you're talking about?

      Because there's nothing incompatible between liberalism, social freedom and fiscal responsibility. There's nothing illiberal about insisting on a small government that doesn't interfere in people's lives. Hell, classical liberalism is basically a milder form of libertarianism. The fact that it's not represented in politics has no bearing on what it is.

      Oh, did you mean the big bad american boogie-man, the liberal who's coming for your guns and wants to give all your money to poor, gay minorities?

      Yeah, that's about as much to do with liberalism as the abstinence-only, fundamentalist, intelligent-design teaching US christian right is conservative.

    201. Re:Let it die. by nozzo · · Score: 1

      One of the the most awesome statements I have heard for a long time. Churning out music-factory crap is surely unsustainable. I've wondered for a long time when we are going to have a group like Pink Floyd that are able to put out landmark concept albums or The Who that have the creativity for rock-opera like Tommy or Quadrophenia. Heck, now I'm showing my age, but all we seem to get is endless R&B and pop formulaic music - and some people love that stuff - I respect the fact not everyone has the same tastes, but there used to be a random music generator that put out some better tunes than what comes out in the charts now.

    202. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IMO that's kind of an arrogant stance. I have played professionally and have worked sound/lights for large and small venues many times. There are no "impossible" rooms, and if you have a good backstage mix the level of the instruments is very controllable, once you prove to the guys on stage they can hear themselves. A good soundguy is a leader, who works with the band, not a passive knob-turner who plays the "set it and forget it" game so he can go back to drinking.

      You need to blame your gear and/or your ear when you can't get a good mix. I would think 20 years would have taught you this.

      Of course, some bands just plain suck or have shit equipment. Not much you can do there, but at least you can give them a good mix.

    203. Re:Let it die. by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      P.S.

      I forgot to comment on the article. (1) The graph shows the records were killed, not by CDs, but by cassettes. Having lived in that time period I always suspected that was true, because cassettes were far-more convenient to carry-around, were not vulnerable to scratching, and had a quality almost as good as CD thanks to the chrome storage used, plus Dolby B encoding.

      (2) This article claims the *inflation adjusted* earnings are dropping. This ignores two things: (a) One reason earnings dropped is because the price dropped from $2 per digital song in the early 2000s to $1 a song (or less) in 2009. This was a *voluntary* pricedrop and if companies think they are going bankrupt, then the could just return the price to where it was before.

      (2)(b) Yes people are abandoning CDs but they are offsetting that loss by the huge growth in downloads. According to a recent BBC article, digital sales is now a blockbuster industry.

      (3) I like CDs. I'd better start buying them-up before they disappear completely. I prefer lossless music, not the lossy crap sold online.

      (4) The industry's not going to die, anymore than the radio industry died when TV was introduced. It will evolve and change, but it won't die. The New York Times is just spewing FUD to help-out their artistic buddies in justifying the MAFIAA's extortion tactics.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    204. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Musicians prefer not living in your real world. Take a look around you. The real world sucks. The people who run the music industry SUCK. Thieves. Mooches. Pimples on the musicians ass that's all you are... Geez you must be one of them, get your paycheck from robbing the musician when you ain't done shit except make a few phone calls... Now let me tell you why the record labels won't continue to exist and perhaps you should be looking for another job.

      My son started a band. He spent $2500 on a beautiful mixer/recorder. He set up his own studio in the basement. If you know anything about music and if you know anyone who knows anything about a pc all the others are just middle men passing around the musicians buck. Deadbeats in suits. After a year they are good enough to produce their own tunes, burn them to cd, create there own artwork and stream them from the net themselves. In today's tech savvy world the musician can control everything.

      Twenty years from now there won't be any big record labels. There will be plenty of independent labels though... and don't tell me musicians can't do a job as good as the studio. Perhaps you should look at the old Whitestripes and the music they did on a 4-track mixer. Sounds just as good as anything done "professionally". You know why? Cuz they are using the same equipment the big guys use except it's all within the little guys ability to purchase and understand how to use these days.

      Tech has evened the playing field. You boys days of moochin are about over better be lookin for another job..

      Sign me Anonymous Coward cuz I'm tired of creating f*$%#ing accounts and logging in.. Rock on...

    205. Re:Let it die. by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      What if they choose not to play all of the songs on the CD? Can a band change the dynamics of a song live? What if the guitar solos are not "note for note" exact when compared to the CD, down to the microsecond? Can they play a song that was electric using acoustic instruments and vice-versa? Can the singer use real-time pitch correction in a live situation? Can they substitute different musicians? Can keyboard samples be used, if they were used on the album (it's not played "live")? What if the timings between songs are different? How different is it allowed to get before you decide that "it's not music"?

      Is the "music concrète" from the sixties music? It doesn't use actual instruments, nor were the compositions able to be reproduced exactly live. At a concert featuring his then new band, Utopia, Todd Rundgren sang his song "Hello, It's Me" against tape, because he did that song as a solo act with a different backing band and he consciously wanted the band "Utopia" to be kept separate from the artist with backing band "Todd Rundgren". Even though he sang the song live (as heard from different timings and vocal flourishes at the end of phrases), the music and backing vocals were pre-recorded. Was that "unreal"? If a hip-hop artist in live performance uses samples extensively and raps against it, is this not music even if it matches "note-for-note" whats on a CD?

      I guess you listen only to classical, folk, and roots music performances, since they're the only ones left that even approximate what's there on a studio album. I think you haven't thought this through very well.

      --
      That is all.
    206. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rock and roll will never die! But the baggage will...

    207. Re:Let it die. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      But lets face it; most starting bands are low on money, do it part time and if you've ever listened to demo's they suck.

      The musical instruments and other equipment needed to play live shows cost far more than the equipment needed to record it. And I heard Duane Mahoney's (Eddie Money) demo that he cut for his producer before the producer did, and the finished version was far, far better than the demo. That three minute demo cost him $200 back in 1975 (might have been '74, I don't remember exactly whe it was).

      He's a good singer and good musician, but he's no better than a lot of my friends who play here locally who make CDs that are every bit as good as almost anything that has come from the major labels.

      The labels aren't there to fuck everyone over, but the fact is they DO fuck almost everyone over, from their artists to their customers.

      You say "I think record labels are needed to support the artists", well, how about some logical arguments instead of "I think"?

      if you've ever listened to demo's they suck. Well they dont

      Your insanely illiterate misuse of the apostrophe begs a link to Bob's quick guide to the apostrophe, you idiots (Bob the Angry Flower)

    208. Re:Let it die. by NickFortune · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As much as I know this is heated topic in slashdot -- and i probably get modded down for it -- the big label records AREN'T there to fuck everyone over

      Correct! They are there to make money for their shareholders. Fucking people over is just an side effect. As is producing music, for that matter.

      But I think record labels are needed to support the artists.

      Difficult to really justify that one in this day and age, I can't help thinking. I it's difficult to justify it as an isolated proposition. It gets even harder when you look at the wider picture. Does the labels' patchy, self-interested and outmoded support of their artists justify the ludicrous profit margins that result from the cartel's carefully manipulated artificial shortage? I think not. Does it justify the war of terror they've waged against random people with internet connections? Most people would not say so. Does it justify restricting the flow of music back to pre-Internet levels just to preserve those over-inflated profit margins?

      You said in your first post

      You might like to come live in the current world

      Allow me to extend to you that same invitation.

      --
      Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
    209. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had the pleasure of helping an old friend to convert his LP collection to MP3, and we took the "Pepsi test" by comparing his original 70s albums with the "remastered" CDs you buy in stores today.

      Not to start a flamewar here, but you can't talk about musical quality and MP3 in the same sentence. I have a recording studio in my home, and high quality headphones, monitors, and loudspeakers. AAC/MP4 are acceptable for lossy encoding (and others), but MP3 at even high bitrates is pretty crappy.

      Frankly I wouldn't call the "product" the CDs had on them music. Compare say....Bat Out Of Hell 1, or Queen A Night At The Opera with the 'remastered' and it seems like a bad joke. The CD sounds like it is being broadcast down a long distance telephone line with all the compression. Why would anyone want to buy product that sounds like dogshit?

      The last CD I bought was Tool's latest CD, and it sounds really good. I can't speak for other CDs outside of that. My new purchases have tapered off because I have boxes of CDs, 2 harddrives full of music, and ~55 gigs of (ahem) MP3s for my iPod and streaming from my laptop. Just this weekend I listened to Rush's 2001, and it just amazes me that a mid 70s recording sounds so good. It sounds "dated" with the way the guitars were recorded, but to actually hear dynamics in the vocals, guitar, and drums is pretty cool.

      Some of the reasons for the "loudness war" are headphones and listening to mixes/random playback. Having dynamics in music your not really listening to in the first place is annoying for people. Good bad or indifferent, music is more like wallpaper today.

    210. Re:Let it die. by Locklin · · Score: 1

      It's just sad when a mp3 of a recording using a computer sound-card, from the AUX out on some record player sounds better than a "remastered CD." How many sources of signal loss and noise are there here?

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    211. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, let me repeat that, advertising is very expensive.

      I don't know about you, but I don't have 6 figures to lay down on advertising, so as an independent content producer (of which I am, see Game!)...

      Oh, I see what you did there.

    212. Re:Let it die. by Locklin · · Score: 2, Informative

      Musicians, for a brief period of modern history, were able to make income beyond that they were given for their performances.

      Correction, a very small number of musicians were able to make that income. The "lottery" mentality works very well when trying to manipulate young musicians into signing away ownership of their creations.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    213. Re:Let it die. by halber_mensch · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Ah, the struggling musician chestnut. Do you know what? Musicians should struggle, because teachers, nurses, scientists, construction workers, and every other fucker in the economy has to struggle. Musicians, for a brief period of modern history, were able to make income beyond that they were given for their performances. That era is coming to an end, and there is no a priori reason why it should not.

      <voice type="neocon bloatbag">

      What kind of socialist, troop-hating, liberal terrorist lover do you have to be to suggest that wealth should be distributed by merit in this most glorious capitalist nation! I'll not see our american family values attacked in such an unholy fashion!

      </voice>

      --
      perl -e "eval pack(q{H*},join q{},qw{70 72696e74207061636b28717b482a7d2c717b343 637323635363534323533343430617d293b})"
    214. Re:Let it die. by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      The "industry" the GP refers to is the big labels that screw over everybody -- artists and listeners -- in the guise that there's barriers or a scarcity that's just not there anymore. Those are the companies that go away.

      If there aren't natural barriers to entry in a market (Wanna get into chip fabrication and go up against Intel? Hope you have billions backing you up) then the industry players will collaborate and make sure that artificial ones are kept nice and high. Even if it's nothing more than making sure the right people won't talk to you and you're frozen out, they'll do it if that's what it takes.

      The thing that makes the net so disruptive is that the marketing model is fucked as well as the distribution model. You used to need the studios to make the records and get them in the stores but you also needed their military-industrial-entertainment complex to get your name on the air and get pushed to the public. Now that kids can talk to each other and let their own tastes develop without taste-makers from MTV and the radio telling them what they like, they're free to find and download their own music. This is the growing irrelevance the record companies are trying to fight.

      Movie studios still have significant barriers on their side, both in production and marketing. While contemporary comedies might be threatened by low-budget indie productions, the Clerks and such of the world, it's still tough to get the capital together to film a giant blockbuster. But I wouldn't count on this state of affairs to remain for very long.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    215. Re:Let it die. by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      When you're a creative person, and you love it and will create spontaneously for the rest of your life as much as you can because you love it, the idea of making a living selling your music or art or whatever seems very appealing.

      But when you're sitting around the house with your bills behind schedule and no money in your pocket, and you are hungry, and you go "Ok, I'm going to make a new song so I can eat", you realize that the idea of trading in something as ethereal as music to meet your essential needs is rather, well, insane.

      Entertaining and recreational pursuits are not industrious pursuits. Entertaining though they may be, they are not a way to assure your safety and survival, and creating legal fictions to give them that appearance doesn't serve the best interests of anyone.

      We should all be able to meet our needs with our own direct effort and have ample time remaining to express ourselves with music and art and other creative works. We have the knowledge, we have the technology. We CAN be "Techno-Amish".

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    216. Re:Let it die. by Locklin · · Score: 1

      If you have 6 figures to lay down for advertising, you need to earn at least 6 figures before the artist gets that "tiny" profit. If an artist invests a few grand getting his music to music festivals, on on-line music stores, kick-start a tour, etc, then he doesn't have to sell a million albums to live off his music.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    217. Re:Let it die. by jollyreaper · · Score: 1

      I've never done any studies or analysis of what people like and why but it seems a lot of people like something after hearing more often and if someone else likes it or if it is trendy. Think about it, teens twenty years ago were listening to 80's music and loving it. Why aren't teens listening to 80's music now? If Eddie Grant's Electric Avenue was good and a number one hit then, shouldn't it be good and a popular hit now? Did humans somehow evolve and now naturally like some other type of music?

      The good stuff keeps getting listened to. Half the music I liked as a kid was from my dad's collection. I'm still finding gems from that generation, just like I'm finding good stuff now. Kids today will go through that same process. They'll pick up some Zeppelin, some pre-sellout Metallica, take a walk on over to the Cherry Poppin' Daddies and discover there's much more to them than just swing, and so forth. There's way too much hip-hop out there and most of it is pop-shite but there's the occasional gem like Immortal Technique. He gets lost in the debris of embarrassing gangsta bullshit the same way the uninformed might dismiss Iron Maiden as just another hair metal band.

      You'll find the stuff that goes away is the stuff that just wasn't good. Look at the list for Billboard hits of Academy Awards from years gone by. You don't remember most of it.

      But the other thing is that many people don't listen to the music deeply and really don't care about it. That's part of what drives the numbers for stuff that time has shown to not be worth remembering. Fashion is driven by herd instinct, not common sense. It's fashionable to wear bellbottoms, have hairspray freak hair in the 80's, etc. All of those fashions were picked up because others were doing it and dropped later because there was no merit to them. When people talk about "timeless" fashion that "never goes out of style" they mean things that make so much sense that they remain in use even after the fad wears off.

      The trend makes something "good" in pop music. How does the music industry take advantage of this? Pick a few artists to promote (get them interviews, guest appearances on popular tv shows, special contests with soda makers etc...). The music industry can only promote so many dumb blonds or a limited amount of any genre at a time. The music did not find the diamond in the rough with many of these stars, they promoted them to that position. Those artists would have the same talent with or without the music industries blessing. With less involvement of the music industry,the trendy part would change but I don't think the there would be a lack or good quality music. People might have to figure out what they consider good for themselves and not let the music industry do it for them.

      The real interest for going with dumb blondes and stupid artists is that the studio can retain greater control. They don't want to raise someone up and invest all the time and promotion into them only for that asset to suddenly start thinking for himself. Much as I detest Madonna, she's an excellent businesswoman and cannot be taken advantage of easily. Someone like a Britney is a train-wreck and can be walked over at will. If she gets uppity, she can be easily replaced with the next templated bimbo.

      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    218. Re:Let it die. by castironpigeon · · Score: 1

      facebook.com
      myspace.com
      last.fm
      blogspot.com
      discogs.com
      local clubs & DJs
      music forums

      Many, many ways to advertise for free online and get people to listen to your music. You won't get huge audiences overnight. You'll probably start by attracting the attention of enthusiasts who spend lots and lots of time discovering new music, but these are the people who you want hearing you because you can bet they'll spread the word if your music's worth hearing. That's really the trick, isn't it? There's already a lot of good music out there. It's hard to make something that sounds good and offers something new. It's a lot easier being young, attractive, untalented, and selling out to the record companies.

      --
      mmmm...forbidden donut
    219. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's not happening . . .

      Well, along the same lines of your statement, just because it's possibly happening does not mean that all or even most stations are doing it.

      To say that all radio stations take money from record companies is to live in a dream world where because one person does a specific thing wrong, everyone does the same thing.

    220. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't want to give the RIAA any money, but you still want to enjoy some of the good bands they represent, just go to garage sales or local record stores with used CDs.

      Last Saturday, at my neighbor's garage sale, I got the Gin Blossoms, Sarah McLaughlin, Third Eye Blind, Hootie and the Blowfish, and Candlebox for $3.75 total (they ranged from 25 or 30 cents for Hootie to 90 cents for Gin Blossoms); all were in mint condition.

      The first three CDs were great, Hootie was kinda wishy-washy, and Candlebox was ok but no great shakes. Still, for the price of a single latte, I got 5 CDs and the RIAA didn't see a cent.

      Think about it.

    221. Re:Let it die. by Hub_City · · Score: 1

      The Fountains Of Wayne proved that "Baby One More Time" was, in fact, a well-crafted pop song. So's "Toxic", for that matter.

      Britney is really only an interpreter of a creative work, not the source. As such, she was always vulnerable to being used up and thrown out - and will continue to be, unless she either learns to be a good manager or finds one that won't fleece her.

    222. Re:Let it die. by bberens · · Score: 1

      The cost of music production is DRAMATICALLY lower than the cost of movies or video games. You can buy enough power to do some really nice quality sound mixing in your home for under $10k. The cost of consuming music has not come down to meet the lower production costs. When it does, nominal consumption will go back up. As long as the cost of a music CD is the same as the cost of a movie/DVD you don't have much of an argument.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    223. Re:Let it die. by ovu · · Score: 1

      Despite differences in slogans, recent actions have proven that "liberals" and "conservatives" are both pro-big-government in their current incarnations...

    224. Re:Let it die. by bobdinkel · · Score: 1

      It seems as though no one is making a distinction between being anti-business and anti-corporation. Personally, I feel that the corporation as a legal entity is indeed a malignancy. But I certainly wouldn't regard myself as anti-business or anti-capitalist. Far from it.

      And I've always hated that maxim. It's perniciously simplistic. It's just a pithy way for conservatives to call liberals dumb. It it no way addresses how drastically the terms "conservative" and "liberal" have changed over time.

      But just like you I've yet to see a system that I'd rather live under.

      --
      A publicly traded company exists solely to make profits for shareholders.
    225. Re:Let it die. by Twyst3d · · Score: 1

      The words 'music' and 'industry' were never meant to go together. Music should come from the heart, not the wallet. This idea that you can become wealthy by being a musician is a new one and we've suffered for it.

      Couldnt have said it better myself. So tired of the non stop stream of no talent hacks being crammed down our throats. I have to buy XM sattelite radio just so I can listen to something other than public radio. Cant friggin STAND IT. Of course the big question is, I wonder how long it will take before they realize its their own damn fault and not the Internets?

      --
      And this has been another installament of Captain Obvious! /whoosh
    226. Re:Let it die. by Hailth · · Score: 0

      You get to listen to Nickelback at 4:30? Lucky :(

      All I get is Greenday at 4:30.... and 4:35... and 4:40... and 4:45.... and that new song of theirs sounds like a cat slowly spinning in an electric can opener...

    227. Re:Let it die. by mochan_s · · Score: 1

      On low quality speakers and noisy environments, compressed music sounds lots and lots better than the originals. Most people listen to music in their cars, on iPods when walking, working or jogging or in little boomboxes at the picnic or backyard.

      Of course, with audiophile equipment with zero noise in the environment and the volume is equalized, the compressed music sounds worse. But, for most purposes that people buy music for, compressed music sounds better.

      Of course, the music industry should be selling uncompressed 24bit 192Khz music to the audiophile (who can feel frequencies beyond the hearing range) that is mastered differently.

    228. Re:Let it die. by inviolet · · Score: 1

      Dynamic range compression is, to me, a microcosm of pretty much everything that is rotten about western capitalism.

      Unless, of course, you are listening on headphones or in a car and there is any background noise. Then you'll appreciate the fact that you can hear the quiet parts without then BLASTING YOUR EARS during the loud part.

      The introduction and spread of compression has tracked the spread of mobile music.

      --
      FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
    229. Re:Let it die. by bennomatic · · Score: 1

      That era is coming to an end, and there is no a priori reason why it should not. Right. I always wondered about Metallica's sense of entitlement. I mean, what did they really contribute to the world that they should not only never have to work again--which would be the case if they didn't make another dime--but also continue to profit from crappy songs written one to two decades ago?

      In a sane world, they would have to continue to change and adapt, produce new music and perform, y'know, *work*, if they wanted to live such extravagant lives.

      A friend of mine who is a cartoonist recently met Gahan Wilson, someone whose work I've admired since I was a child. If anyone deserves to be wealthy enough to live the easy life, I'd say he's on that list. He's worked hard and published works in thousands of magazines over the last several decades. But he's still submitting cartoons every week to the New Yorker.

      A job is a job, not the lottery. As much as I think everyone should have to work less, this idea that someone can produce a couple of toe-tappers and never have to work again is just silly.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    230. Re:Let it die. by homes32 · · Score: 1

      hence the reason I stopped listening to radio a long time ago.

    231. Re:Let it die. by portnoy · · Score: 1

      - destruction of diversity in radio broadcasting (something the music industry ironically pushed for) via the death of media ownership regulations mid-'90s

      Wrong. Radio hardly has any influence on what music people listen to these days.

      I'm not sure that's true -- I actually think the ownership regulations have affected the music being produced. I look at it this way: after the Telecommuncations Act of 1996, companies like ClearChannel now could own stations across the country. In order to lower their costs, they would program all stations of a certain genre out of a central location. Hence, in order to get heard on a ClearChannel station, you can't appeal to local tastes and rely on a good set of customers in just, say, the Southeast markets; instead the music needed to be something that would appeal from Albany to Abilene to Anchorage. When a record company is aiming for as wide a market as possible, they're going to end up going for simpler melodies and sounds to avoid turning people off.

      So, in order to get airtime across the country, you're going to tend to push rather pedestrian music. I think this is also why record companies have started pushing fewer artists in the last decade -- it's just not cost-effective to do more variety when every single artist needs to be marketed nationwide.

      It all stems from the radio ownership rules. Even if radio no longer influences tastes directly (which might actually just be a case of the tail wagging the dog), it doesn't mean it doesn't have an influence on what's being produced.

    232. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, /.'s system is having glitches even with javascript off. You browse pages 1 through 4, and it ends up at exactly this post's parent.

    233. Re:Let it die. by piojo · · Score: 1

      top of that, I simply can't bloody afford albums that cost more than DVD's anymore.

      I used to love punk compilation albums. Hell, maybe I should start buying those again. They often weren't produced by big record companies, and they used to cost $3-5 at the music store I liked. I wonder whether the price has changed...

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    234. Re:Let it die. by Jon_S · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      "Why aren't teens listening to 80's music now?"

      Because it sucked. I remember living in the S.F. bay area during the 1980s and there actually was some radio station then that had a billboard annoucing "no Rock of the 80s".

      Oh sure, there's alsways some godo music being made at any given time (among the big acts, some good stuff from U2 and Dire Staits), but overall, the 80s didn't produce too much that was too memorable.

      Someone may say but that was when Michael Jackson made it big. But I consider that a supporting piece of evidence to my thesis.

    235. Re:Let it die. by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have to butt in on this. There is no anti-business sentiment on slashdot. There is an anti-getting-screwed-over sentiment. I don't know when we started equating "not buying their bullshit" with "anti-business", but it's a pretty scary trend.

      Getting screwed over is business as usual these days. So anti-getting-screwed-over IS anti-business sentiment. Ethical companies that provide high quality services get undercut by those who cut corners, and everyone loses. It doesn't help that every time we try to fix a problem, the Whatever Business Association complains that any regulation will interfere with their racket, er, business.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    236. Re:Let it die. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Got a better suggestion?

      Keep the capitalism. Abolish the corporation. Allow no limit on liability. Make people (and investors) personally responsible for their actions. That will clean up a lot of these problems.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    237. Re:Let it die. by piojo · · Score: 1

      Do you know of any bands that became popular this way? Because you could be right, but I remain incredibly skeptical until I see it starting to happen.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    238. Re:Let it die. by Hatta · · Score: 2, Informative

      But a government-run monopoly (like medicare) is far far worse.

      Is that so?

      Medicare out-performs private sector plans in terms of patients' satisfaction with quality of care, access to care, and overall insurance ratings. The survey found that elderly Medicare beneficiaries are 2.7 times more likely than enrollees in employer-sponsored plans to rate their health insurance as excellent and less likely to report negative experiences with their insurance plans. Medicare beneficiaries are also one-third as likely to say they couldn't get health care because of cost than are those covered by employer private insurance plans. The survey also found that elderly Medicare beneficiaries were more likely to report being very satisfied with the care they received compared to those with private insurance (62% vs. 51% respectively).

      The government is at least potentially answerable to the people it serves. Corporations are only answerable to their share holders (and often not even that). Government run services are also run for the common good, whereas corporations are run for private profit. The two seldom intersect.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    239. Re:Let it die. by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      This would be a personal preference item. I'm not picky, but the range compressed music sounds like crap to me on anything but the absolute cheapest stuff. Moreover, there's a stunning example of what I and others are trying to get at.

      This is an uncompressed version of the video:

      http://homedir-b.libsyn.com/podcasts/7e24bfaa5acaa3c0c22fd937c31d5b84/4a771a4c/psn/images/Loudness_War.mov

      (Warning, it IS uncompressed...)

      This is the YouTube version of it:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

      (This is with AAC compression on the audio at YouTube's standard def settings.)

      It doesn't matter if you're looking at the compressed or uncompressed version- they both are telling as to what you're claiming "sounds better" really sounds like. Doing an analysis of the sound tracks, it doesn't appear to be trickery. He's pinned it down and I've got noise in my environment and it's still better with the uncompressed sample. You turn the volume knob up if you can't hear the non-range-compressed stuff. Don't make it "louder" to compensate for crap hardware or really noisy environments (if it's THAT noisy, you're not going to hear much of the music even IF it's range-compressed...)- you don't have to be an audiophile to actually tell the difference.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    240. Re:Let it die. by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Actually LAME at 320k sounds really good now, as they have really stepped up to the plate when it comes to tweaking their codec for quality. In fact there are several studies using blind listening tests where users couldn't tell LAME at 192k or above with the original sources if you care to Google them (my Google Fu is of the suck).

      If you haven't tried LAME in awhile you really should, as the quality is leaps and bounds better than even 5 years ago. Of course how good your analog equipment is matters when doing A to D conversion, and while my friends wasn't top o' the line, it was still pretty decent and he kept his discs in great shape. But trust me, compared to the total shit the loudness war has brought onto modern music his LPs encoded at 320k sounded like heaven.

      And of course he still has his LPs put up in case he wants to re-rip at a later date. But as a musician that appreciates good sound I have to say the LAME guys have really been on top of their game when it comes to boosting the quality of MP3. Thanks LAME guys!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    241. Re:Let it die. by hador_nyc · · Score: 1

      just a comment on your sig...

      I love the reference to Sneakers. Great old tech flick.

      --
      - Mike
      Once you've lost your temper, you've lost the argument - Me
    242. Re:Let it die. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I *love* when my gf sings to me and I think its cute and lovely. But I have the feelings that make it. It wouldn't stand against commercially produced music.

      Sure it would. She just needs a generous helping of Autotune like every other pop starlet.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    243. Re:Let it die. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      - destruction of diversity in radio broadcasting (something the music industry ironically pushed for) via the death of media ownership regulations mid-'90s

      Wrong. Radio hardly has any influence on what music people listen to these days.

      That's the point. Radio has no influence on what people listen to BECAUSE they have destroyed all diversity and quality on the radio. If they actually took some chances and played things people hadn't heard, things played by talented musicians that people might actually like, the radio would have much more influence on people's listening habits.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    244. Re:Let it die. by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      You can put together a competent "recording studio" in your home office for under $500. I certianly have, and as a hobby only. As it turns out, humans (well, a significant minority, at least, but it's larger than you think) are very well designed for making music on the fly. The costs of a home studio are so low that a lot of people do it as a hobby - I'm one of them, and still learning to play myself. With the exception of fronting cash for tours and professional studio time ($100-500/hr) and marketing expertise, there's very little that modern labels do for real musicians.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    245. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and with that we all settled back into the cosy mindspace that helps us to believe that we can't make life any fairer or better.

      One poverty-stricken and grilled-planet coming up for you sir. Would you like a little laissez-faire dressing on your dish sir...?

    246. Re:Let it die. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Who is Hannah Montana? Seriously. I had to look her up. I notice that I "miss" more and more of that started-as-mainstream stuff, since I have no TV (I watch torrented shows and some that have their own websites like The Daily Show and South Park), no Radio (I listen so ShoutCast stations) and no Newspaper (I read Slashdot, one blog and some web comics).

      Sometimes it gets boring. But then I think that with a TV, I'd only watch crap anyway. So I go read a bit more Slashdot, or find me some porn, or call a girl. ^^

      It's the 21st century life. And I like it. Especially the comment function (thinking for yourself)!! :)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    247. Re:Let it die. by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      If it hits my audio gear or pc, it's MINE.

      Yes, but how much is your time worth? Would you be willing to pay for a streaming service that provides interesting selections from the entire body of music ever produced with complete customizable options delivered to any device you own 24/7/365 on demand? There is something to be said for music as a service, even though people can copy the stream, which makes it easier to hear anything at anytime for a reasonable flat periodic fee. The problem, as you put it, is ownership of copyright being perceived by record labels as the ONLY way to make money when offering music to consumers (i.e. they sell you a copy). The record labels should have adapted to the new technologies by changing their business model from "sell you a copy" to "sell you music delivered on demand as a service". Would some people spend lots of their time micro-managing a huge collection of locally copied music? Probably, but many people would rather pay a couple bucks per month to have someone else do that for them and deliver it to them as a nicely packaged service to their iPhone or home audio system or any other personal device(s) capable of playback.

    248. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I call BULLSHIT! There are very few musicians who make anything close to what a teacher, nurse, scientist, or construction worker make. That is with touring and merchandise sales combined. This includes most musicians that you would consider popular. As an example, U2 didn't make a penny off of record sales until after The Joshua Tree which was their 6th release. Most musicians don't have a major label release and for those that do, they rarely make it past 2 releases. In addition to that U2 did not make a lot of money off of touring up until that point. On top of that, teachers, nurses, scientists, and construction workers all work for a salary. There is no such guarantee for a musician. There has never been an era or brief period of modern history where musicians were guaranteed to make any income for or beyond their performances. So you can take your "struggling musician chestnut" and stuff it up your ass. FYI, IAASPM (I am a struggling professional musician).

    249. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bahahaha. Are you serious? The GP said SIX THOUSAND fucking dollars for one entry level mike, dipshit.

    250. Re:Let it die. by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Learn to read, jackass. I was replying to the guy suggesting an SM58.

    251. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And now besides the point, record labels aren't there just to rip people off. Artists actually need them.

      Nowadays, there are plenty of artists that record and compose high-quality music on their home computers. Some even make music videos with their handheld cameras or iPhones. With the availability of production software and world-wide distribution on the internet, musicians no longer need record labels.

    252. Re:Let it die. by NoOneInParticular · · Score: 1

      If you've read the article, or at least looked at the graphs, you will see that being at Best Buy, Wal Mart, Target or Sam Goody is becoming completely irrelevant. CDs are not being bought anymore.

    253. Re:Let it die. by Svartalf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Heh... I pretty much won't take their stuff if they tried to force it on me, never mind the silver platter. Most of it all is pretty craptastic these days and I pretty much treat the "remastered" stuff like it was infested with the black plague (For more than one reason, even...I don't appreciate being treated like I was a thief or infringer...).

      Word has it, though, that Guns and Roses just recently released an album with NO compression and you can tell the quality difference even over the radio. They stand out like a lighthouse during a storm according to the reports from others.

      Wouldn't know, though. I've opted out of listening to the Radio because of things like the labels' conduct over the last 10 or so years, the Loudness Wars included in it. I don't buy the stuff they're peddling over the airwaves or in the music stores. I get better from unsigned acts, including folk music artists- and they don't muck with the audio or treat me like a thief.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    254. Re:Let it die. by lessthan · · Score: 1

      all of a sudden the "Music industry" added 10 or more "new" ones. (Lets see, Punk, Hip-Hop, Rap, new wave, ... ).

      You say it like it is a bad thing.

      --
      Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
    255. Re:Let it die. by Dragoness+Eclectic · · Score: 1

      I haven't listened to anything 'new' from the big labels since the 90s grunge era. Hasn't been anything from them worth listening to. All the new stuff I listen to has turned out to be either (a) euro-metal like Nightwish or Lordi, or (b) folk/celtic/filk/etc. There's some astonishingly good singers and songs in the folk arena, and I've learned about them all from Internet word-of-mouth (e.g. Heather Alexander, Seanan MacGuire), or witnessing them perform. (Dragon*Con introduced me to Emerald Rose and Michael Langcor, for example). Folk doesn't tend to be a big label, big marketing genre--most folk albums are produced and marketed by the artists themselves, via their websites and at concerts.

      As for the old stuff, I love classic rock. Euro-metal seems to be the only vestige of classic rock left these days.

      --
      ---dragoness
    256. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you mean ... Umm, Nickelback, it must be some time after January 2008?
      Its like trying to figure out what day of the week it is based on the fact that you just flipped past Law and Order and Family Guy re-runs.

    257. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Oh, did you mean the big bad american boogie-man, the liberal who's coming for your guns and wants to give all your money to poor, gay minorities?

      That's a nice way to try and stereotype me, but was I was specifically referring to was the spend spend spend attitude that is personified by the Democratic Party in the United States. It doesn't really have anything to do with "gay minorities". The President ran on a platform of hard choices but hasn't made any. He ran on a platform of bipartisanship and a "new kind" of politics but has turned his domestic agenda over to the most partisan element of his party in the Congress. Nothing has changed -- we've replaced a far-right ideologically driven government with a far-left one.

      The Democrats are acting in the exact same manner as the GOP did in 2000 and are only too happy to pretend that the 47% of the country that didn't vote for them doesn't exist. They seem to think the election was a mandate for every leftist idea that's been collecting dust on the shelf at Berkley for the last few decades. Those of us in the middle know better -- the election was the final rejection of Bush'ism, not a mandate for the left.

      I wasn't even thinking of gun rights when I made that remark but that's another issue that I could raise -- though thankfully it seems that the Democrats from moderate/conservative districts are placing political-survival ahead of the party agenda on that particular issue. There's actually a few that believe in gun rights too (Tester, Webb and Baucus come to mind) so I'm really not worried about that issue on the Federal level. Here in the People's Republic of New York is another matter of course......

      To be fair it should be noted that the GOP wasn't any better on spending/hard choices -- but beating that dead horse doesn't really seem to serve any purpose now that they aren't in power, does it?

      Yeah, that's about as much to do with liberalism as the abstinence-only, fundamentalist, intelligent-design teaching US christian right is conservative.

      What it's supposed to be and what it actually is in our body politic are two different things. Personally at this point I'll vote for whomever seems to have the political capital to place reality ahead of ideology. I didn't vote for him but I had assumed that was going to be President Obama. Unfortunately he last few months have thoroughly dispelled that illusion. It seems the best we can hope for under our broken system is divided Government -- I think I'd like Obama much more if the GOP took back Congress and we had some checks and balances on partisan power.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    258. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      One poverty-stricken and grilled-planet coming up for you sir. Would you like a little laissez-faire dressing on your dish sir...?

      The history of socialism suggests that it will be the leftists who turn it into a poverty-stricken planet. As far as "grilled" goes, we are already fucked on that one anyway -- unless you purpose to go to war with China and India to stop their development.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    259. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      The government is at least potentially answerable to the people it serves.

      Hahahaha, thanks for the laugh :) How is Government "answerable" to the people when the political parties get to draw the election districts in such a way as to maximize their chances of winning re-election? Go take a look at the number of incumbents who are re-elected (or even the number who run unopposed) and then tell me that Government is "accountable".

      Corporations are only answerable to their share holders (and often not even that)

      No, corporations are answerable to their customers, because barring Governmental bailouts they can't stay in business without them.

      Government run services are also run for the common good

      No they aren't. They are run for the good of whatever special interest happens to be favored by the political party that's currently in power. Public education reform is held hostage by the teacher unions. Financial reform is held hostage by the banks. Entitlement reform is held hostage by the AARP. Energy reform is held hostage by the extremist environmentalists on the left and big business on the right. Our foreign policy is at the mercy of AIPAC.

      Our Government hasn't operated for the "common good" for quite some time. If your issue isn't backed by a loud and well financed lobbying group it's basically dead on arrival in Washington. Given all that, you'll forgive my skepticism of new Governmental programs.....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    260. Re:Let it die. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      That's all nice in theory, but in reality people like their government healthcare better than private health care. I'm no fan of either government or corporations, both systems are extremely flawed, but the facts do line up in favor of government here.

      I must say it's amusing that you will find flaw in the government for being beholden to special interests when corporations ARE special interests. Government is bad because it's influenced by groups concerned only with their own interests, so lets replace it with groups that are concerned only with their own interests. Yeah, that makes sense.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    261. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I must say it's amusing that you will find flaw in the government for being beholden to special interests when corporations ARE special interests. Government is bad because it's influenced by groups concerned only with their own interests, so lets replace it with groups that are concerned only with their own interests. Yeah, that makes sense.

      It makes sense because all that's required to bring corporations to heel is to stop doing business with them. If people stop giving GM money because they are building crap then eventually they will go out of business (or get a bailout but that's a bitch-fest for another discussion....) By contrast, if you try to stop giving the Government money eventually some armed goons will show up at your door to explain to you the error of your ways.

      Government isn't accountable to the people and hasn't been for quite some time. Perhaps it never really was -- but at least in the past it was limited in size and scope. My Congressman can't even be bothered to send a form letter in response to my letters because he knows that barring an underage sex scandal he has his seat until he dies. Our system as a whole has been hijacked by the most partisan element of each political party as a consequence of gerrymandered districts and the low turnout of primary elections. If you aren't a rich donor and/or part of the primary electorate they don't give a damn about you.

      For all the faults of both, only Government has the power to take away your freedom. No corporation can do that. I find it amusing that the left doesn't realize this basic fact. They whine about Governmental erosion of liberty (censorship, wiretapping, free-speech zones, etc) while simultaneously seeking to broaden the reach of Government. Seems rather self-defeating to me.

      "A Government big enough to give you everything that you want is big enough to take everything that you have."

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    262. Re:Let it die. by melikamp · · Score: 1

      I agree completely. If they had the slightest urge to innovate, they would have already. But they would rather do nothing and milk their copyright cow to death. Comparing them to SCO is very appropriate: just like the actions of SCO were inconsequential for OS development, those of RIAA are quickly becoming irrelevant for development of music as an art form.

    263. Re:Let it die. by snuf23 · · Score: 1

      "the spend spend spend attitude that is personified by the Democratic Party in the United States"

      versus the spend spend spend attitude of the Bush administration? I appreciate your sentiment and I don't like it either but the governments been fucking the economic pooch for a lot longer than just since Obama took office. Who was it who signed the bank bailout? Oh right it was Bush.

      --
      Sometimes my arms bend back.
    264. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      versus the spend spend spend attitude of the Bush administration? I appreciate your sentiment and I don't like it either but the governments been fucking the economic pooch for a lot longer than just since Obama took office. Who was it who signed the bank bailout? Oh right it was Bush.

      I'm pretty sure I addressed this, but thanks for the redirection. Apparently the fact that the GOP sucks is all the justification that the Democrats need to suck as well.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    265. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The words 'music' and 'industry' were never meant to go together. Music should come from the heart, not the wallet. This idea that you can become wealthy by being a musician is a new one and we've suffered for it.

      possibly the dumbest thing i've ever read on the internet. And that's saying something.

    266. Re:Let it die. by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      Hah, nickleback everytday at 1:32 at my local station in Dallas, and "Hey there delilah" at 2:00pm on the dot on thursdays. My coworker takes advantage of the "radio over speakerphone" function in our office and I get to listen to whatever she's listening to.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    267. Re:Let it die. by Virtual_Raider · · Score: 1

      Word of mouth only goes so far, and advertising is expensive.

      In the days of people having 100s (if not1000s) of "friends" on sites like Facebook, "word of mouth" is a hell of a lot more effective than it ever was before - and that's likely to remain true going forward.

      I actually tend to think the opposite. I have so many friends on facebook that aren't my real friends that invites over fb tend to mean less to me then a phone call, or even an email. Plus you know that everyone invites their entire friends list so you don't get the feeling that the person really wants you to be there.

      You and I must be on different age brackets. I have roughly 120 friends on FB, and 2/3 of them are more accurately counted as "acquaintances" and "workmates", and I take the time to classify and assign them permissions accordingly. The invites I get are from people that do appreciate my presence and those I send are on the same basis.

      I do have friends my age that accept any and all invitations and add every app under the sun lest people think they are unfriendly, but IMNSHO they are on a much earlier "mental age bracket" so to speak. As people matures —matures, not ages— they tend to weigh their decisions a bit more.

      --
      +Raider of the lost BBS
    268. Re:Let it die. by bursch-X · · Score: 1

      And it should be open sourced immediately. No copyrights bullshit. If the government has paid for it, we the people have paid for it and it has been created under the people's comission. There'd be no reason for us to pay for it again.

      --
      There are two rules for success:
      1. Never tell everything you know.
    269. Re:Let it die. by ibsteve2u · · Score: 1

      And finally, the main reason: - replacement of almost all talented acts that produced good music, with hyperproduced kiddie-shit "artists" whose assets are not musical talent or singing voices, but barely-covered bikini bottoms and tits. Just you wait: in 4 years, tops, "Hannah Montana" will be pulling a Britney-style selfdestruct. And neither of them are capable of producing "music" even remotely worth listening to.

      I tend to agree with that. Kids growing up these days are not exposed to a wide variety of music so much as they are trained by certain cable channels to prefer certain types of music featuring certain artists produced by certain labels owned by...the parent companies of certain cable channels.

      --
      Orwell: "In a Time of Universal Deceit, telling the Truth is a Revolutionary Act"
    270. Re:Let it die. by coaxial · · Score: 1

      You have correctly deduced my lack of knowledge of musical history. The first few, with the exception of the Greatest Band of the 90s, all had documented screaming throngs of girls. The other just kind of fill it out. Of course, Purcell was a ladies man. ;) Cain, of course was the original punk.

    271. Re:Let it die. by MacWiz · · Score: 1

      Music *IS* industry.

      That's exactly what's wrong with it.

      But if you're against commercial music, the answer isn't to pirate it. Answer is not to listen to it all.

      That's certainly good advice. Been following it since 2000. ...record labels aren't there just to rip people off.

      Then why are they perpetually being audited by the artists? They're just really bad at math?

      Artists actually need them.

      Some artists need them. Most are better off without them.

    272. Re:Let it die. by zobier · · Score: 1

      One of the things I discovered was that clean sound can be very loud without bothering listeners, whereas dirty or poorly equalized sound can be annoying at almost any volume.

      This, a signal with more noise/distortion will also do more damage at the same volume.

      --
      Me lost me cookie at the disco.
    273. Re:Let it die. by ThePromenader · · Score: 1

      The phrase you corrected was referring to the kids, not the industry - my bad grammar, my bad.

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
    274. Re:Let it die. by mailman-zero · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Stop being hypocrisy.

      --
      Let's play video games with mailmanZERO
    275. Re:Let it die. by shnull · · Score: 1

      also do they include a graph somewhere that shows the price of cd's and dvd's across those years where kids buy them less and less? i shouldnt respond cos i didnt read it, all this music-industry bull is getting old, totally agree with mr FlyingSquidStudios

      --
      beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
    276. Re:Let it die. by Sinterklaas · · Score: 1

      Liberalism rarely survives ones first paycheck and the discovery of how much of your money the Government is taking from you. To borrow a quote, "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain."

      Except that there are many old liberals. That quote is really only enlightening to a selfish subset of the population who can't stand the thought of paying for the well-being of other people, at the expense of a little luxury.

      Got a better suggestion? For all it's flaws our capitalist system has produced much of the wealth and technology that we take for granted. I've yet to see a system that I'd rather live under.

      Anti-corporate and anti-business doesn't mean anti-capitalism. There are many people that want reforms. Banking reforms are especially popular right now. There is no reason why we have to accept the current crappy system that favors short term greed over long term sustainable growth.

    277. Re:Let it die. by musekic · · Score: 1

      Do you want to hear the music - or do you want it to stay trapped within in confines of a musician's basement or garage? If there's a good song out there, I want to hear it and industry helps to deliver the tunes to me. Industry has indeed corrupted my favorite form of art. Most of the radio play lists are crap - seemingly generated by suits. Hopefully technology brings the suits back to size and helps the "industry" improve.

    278. Re:Let it die. by Sinterklaas · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure I addressed this, but thanks for the redirection. Apparently the fact that the GOP sucks is all the justification that the Democrats need to suck as well.

      It's not redirection. You claimed that liberalism = Democrats = spend spend spend. But Bush Jr, Bush Sr and Reagan were big spenders. The most fiscally conservative president of the last few decades was Clinton. Arguably, Obama has had little choice but to continue spending to get out of the recession. Most fiscal conservatives are fine with running deficits in bad times, as long as there is a (larger) surplus in the good years. Obama could easily turn out to be a fiscal conservative, by cutting spending and raising taxes when the recession is over.

      In short, your anger at the Democrats for being big spenders is not based on facts, since the GOP is way worse in that respect. Your anger at liberals is even more of a mystery, since your world-view seems to be limited to the US. Liberals exist all over the world and some are extremely fiscally conservative, while many conservatives want to spend like crazy. Break out of the stereotypes. They are what allows politicians to get away with the horrid behavior, while beating the pro/anti-gun, pro/anti-abortion, etc drums at election time. On those issues there haven't been major attempts to change the laws for a long time, but politicians pretend that they are major issues, so they don't have to talk about the real issues (like their awful spending & corruption).

    279. Re:Let it die. by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      It's not redirection. You claimed that liberalism = Democrats = spend spend spend. But Bush Jr, Bush Sr and Reagan were big spenders.

      See, you just can't help but beat that dead horse, can you? Did I claim that the Republicans were any better? Did I even claim to be a Republican or to sympathize with them on any particular issue? Why are you so bound and determined to change the topic of conversation to the party that isn't in power right now? Does it bother you when someone points out that the Democrats picking right up where GWB left off and driving our financial bus over the cliff?

      The most fiscally conservative president of the last few decades was Clinton

      That only happened because he had a GOP Congress to contend with. I think I'd like Obama a lot more if the GOP had control of Congress. Divided Government seems to be the only thing that keeps spending in Washington under control.

      Arguably, Obama has had little choice but to continue spending to get out of the recession.

      Bullshit. The vast majority of Obama's spending is not stimulative in any sense of the word. The "stimulus plan" was a bill loaded up with every bit of pork that the Democrats have been saving up over the years. With few exceptions (cash for clunkers being the one everybody is talking about today) most of his spending has zero to do with the economic recovery that is now under way. Hell most of the money hasn't even been spent yet. And now they are making rumblings about needing a second "stimulus"! Gotta love it.

      Obama could easily turn out to be a fiscal conservative, by cutting spending and raising taxes when the recession is over.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Thanks for the laugh! Obama has turned his entire domestic agenda over to Nancy Pelosi. The only way Obama is going to become a fiscal conservative is if the GOP somehow manages to retake one or both houses of Congress in 2010. That isn't likely to happen unless the Democrats really screw up between now and then.

      In short, your anger at the Democrats for being big spenders is not based on facts, since the GOP is way worse in that respect.

      Again, more redirection. Why do you insist on making a comparison with the party that isn't in power right now? Are you implying that I shouldn't be upset at the Democrats because the Republicans suck as well? I'm upset at the party that's currently running the country into the ground -- if the GOP sweeps back into power and starts driving us over the cliff then you'll see me condemning them as well. Condemning them right now doesn't seem to serve much purpose, other than to excuse the Democrats for their stupidity.

      Your anger at liberals is even more of a mystery, since your world-view seems to be limited to the US.

      Imagine that -- limiting my "world-view" to America during a discussion about American politics. Go figure!

      Liberals exist all over the world and some are extremely fiscally conservative, while many conservatives want to spend like crazy.

      When those people are running for a seat in the US Congress then I'll care about the political platform they stand for. Until then it's just more redirection by someone who is unwilling to have a candid discussion about the US Democratic Party and American liberalism.

      Break out of the stereotypes.

      What stereotypes? We've passed a nearly trillion dollar "stimulus" that was anything but, we are going to fund health care "reform" on the backs of the rich instead of the shared sacrifice that Obama talked about during the campaign, we've passed a cap and trade system that gave away the majority of the permits to political/industrial interests and we've twisted the bankruptcy code to reward a political base (the UAW) that should have been behind the boldhold

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    280. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow i thought I was the only one that notice that.

      Here it is Ozzy Osbourne at 9:30 am EVERY DAY. ...sad

    281. Re:Let it die. by Sun.Jedi · · Score: 1

      Yes, but how much is your time worth? Would you be willing to pay for a streaming service that provides interesting selections from the entire body of music ever produced with complete customizable options delivered to any device you own 24/7/365 on demand?

      This has its appeal, and its place, although target devices are limited for bandwidth and quality. I often listen to the cable-tv-provided theme channels and pipe it through the audio rack. There are several non customizable channels that occasionally get use, mostly the holiday themed ones. I've used Rhapsody frequently in the past. I've used amazon to just buy mp3s.

      There is something to be said for music as a service, even though people can copy the stream, which makes it easier to hear anything at anytime for a reasonable flat periodic fee.

      It's not a huge time investment to format shift a stream for my own use in my truck, on another pc, or another cd/dvd player. It wasn't even that much of an addition money investment. That's really the key benefit, which is seemingly outside the lines as far as the RIAA is concerned. They don't want to sell a service, they want to sell per spin, or at least per device.

      but many people would rather pay a couple bucks per month to have someone else do that for them and deliver it to them as a nicely packaged service

      I don't consider myself an audiophile, but I do have nice gear, and don't mind "turning the dials" on it. I don't think locally stored music is any different than managing albums, cassettes, or CDs before we could copy to different disks.

      I would use a service if the cost was really a "few bucks a month", if that price included bandwidth, the quality wasn't dirt, was commercial free and I could customize the inbound playlist. That would replace the need for me to format shift in large part, and then it wouldn't be worth my time to bother.

    282. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. I don't think there's is anything wrong with musicians charging for their performances or making money, but when it becomes a massive industry there's no room for innovation. In our culture the majority of musicians make nothing while a few big names get rich. Even the rich artists probably see only a small portion of their actual profits. A healthier culture would be one which supports a wide variety of artists living comfortably. For this to happen we need to take down the big labels.

      I don't support piracy, but rather I support a boycott on anything produced by a large record label. Don't copy it, don't buy it, don't listen to it!

      When I go to local shows and jam with friends I have a lot more fun. I would rather give 10 dollars to my friend for his album than to Sony. This way I know that the artist is getting paid, not the label.

    283. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides, isn't it business as usual when companies that offer products no one wants go out of business? Who wants to listen to FM radio? Who wants song's you can only play on one device? Who wants to sign with a label that will take all your money? Who wants to sign with a label that is so out of touch with the consumer base, that it can't sell your product?

      When people started driving cars and stopped making horse and buggies the world of business didn't stop. People just found new ways to spend money and the innovative business man figured out what those were.

      The end of the modern record label doesn't mean the end of business. It may not even mean the end of the music industry, but even if it does, people will still keep making music, and people will still keep doing business.

    284. Re:Let it die. by Sinterklaas · · Score: 1

      See, you just can't help but beat that dead horse, can you? Did I claim that the Republicans were any better?

      Yes, when you said this: "I was specifically referring to was the spend spend spend attitude that is personified by the Democratic Party in the United States." This sentence only makes sense if you think the Republicans are better. If you think that both parties are bad, then say so. Don't whine when people judge you on the words you write instead of reading your mind (and I'm not the only one who read your words this way, so it's not me who is the problem).

      Did I even claim to be a Republican or to sympathize with them on any particular issue? Why are you so bound and determined to change the topic of conversation to the party that isn't in power right now?

      They have been out of power for a very short time, after 8 years of making policy. Obama has put Reps in his cabinet, so they share part of the responsibility. They are still a factor in congress (with the democrats having a very slim filibuster-proof majority). You can't just ignore them, especially since your criticisms of the Democrats might drive people to the Republicans, which won't solve anything.

      Does it bother you when someone points out that the Democrats picking right up where GWB left off and driving our financial bus over the cliff?

      Yes, because it is unfair. You cannot turn a supertanker on a dime. During a recession, the first priority for the government is to appear reliable and stable. You cannot simply change fiscal policy drastically, without risking major panic. Also, it diverts attention away from the bipartisan corruption and foolishness.

      That only happened because he had a GOP Congress to contend with. I think I'd like Obama a lot more if the GOP had control of Congress. Divided Government seems to be the only thing that keeps spending in Washington under control.

      Obama reached out to the GOP. Did they demand less spending? No. They wanted lowered taxes (a very ineffective way to combat a crisis, since many people will put the money in the bank). The consensus in Washington is that there needs to be spending to fight the recession (as has always been the case during a recession, since politicians started believing in Keynes after the Great Depression).

      Bullshit. The vast majority of Obama's spending is not stimulative in any sense of the word. The "stimulus plan" was a bill loaded up with every bit of pork that the Democrats have been saving up over the years. With few exceptions (cash for clunkers being the one everybody is talking about today) most of his spending has zero to do with the economic recovery that is now under way. Hell most of the money hasn't even been spent yet. And now they are making rumblings about needing a second "stimulus"! Gotta love it.

      No, it's not. A lot of money goes to tax cuts and the states, which are not pork. The rest of the bill does have some pork, but by Washington standards, it is very little. You are just parroting right-wing talking points. And of course the money cannot be spend immediately. It always takes time to start up projects, especially if the money is not earmarked.

      Imagine that -- limiting my "world-view" to America during a discussion about American politics. Go figure!

      But the discussion wasn't about American politics. It was about liberalism until your post where you started talking about the Democrats and the Republicans.

      When those people are running for a seat in the US Congress then I'll care about the political platform they stand for. Until then it's just more redirection by someone who is unwilling to have a candid discussion about the US Democratic Party and American liberalism.

      Why would I let you hijack this thread and reduce it to a

    285. Re:Let it die. by Eil · · Score: 1

      Is Youtube sustainable though?

      Would be a shame if they go bust and there's no replacement.

      Well, no, YouTube won't last forever but since it's owned by Google, it's surely not going away anytime soon. The biggest long-term risk to user generated content hosting is growing corporate and government control over the Internet.

    286. Re:Let it die. by mochan_s · · Score: 1

      That video is outright wrong. Loudness is achieved by compression as you said, not by increasing the amplitude and chopping the high values.

      Compression works by setting the quieter parts louder while keeping the louder parts as loud as they were. Of course, most compressors treat different frequency differently and they have attack and decay type parameters that also varies by frequency.

      A tube guitar amp in a lot of settings acts as a compressor. Tape that used to exclusively used for recoding music also acts as a compressor. Every experienced engineer that I have seen has an old (and expensive) compressor along with his digital plugins. The "wall of sound" that was so popular was achieved through compression.

      Good recording engineers can produce great sounding tracks with high loudness by really tweaking the compression. I think some music and artists do sound better with high loudness (in the hands of a good engineer). Listen to bands like Oasis where their music was always heavily compressed to begin with. They do not suffer even the slightest with the loudness war.

    287. Re:Let it die. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn to read, jackass. The SM58 was in response to the allegation that an *entry level Shure* was six THOUSAND dollars.

    288. Re:Let it die. by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Exactly, and an SM58 is NOT an entry level microphone - it's stoneage technology that should never again be used for vocals. Guitars, fine (as a matter of fact, I have an SM57 - which has the same capsule as the SM58 - for just that purpose), but NOT vocals. Other than that, they're more useful when you don't have a hammer handy or need to defend yourself against a nightly intruder...

      An entry level Shure may not be six thousand dollars, but you're not getting anything decent for $100 either. Mics that actually deserve to be categorized as such start around the Beta58A.

  2. Streaming services by sopssa · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Free music IS NOT the way to go. Warez IS NOT the way to go.

    However, streaming music services certainly ARE. Spotify has been around for an year in europe now and its getting close to US launch soon. Everyone I know has stopped pirating music because of it, and personally me and my friends paste spotify links to listen to good new music. And same thing is with my gf, specially because she's been away at her home town this summer. But we like the same kind of music so we paste those link on facebook. Easy and convenient.

    I'm actually happy record labels have started to support these things. Great respect for them for that, because thats exactly what we need and want in these days. And they still get the compensation in ad revenue or premium membership. We cant buy every album, because theres just certain amount every person can spend on music per month. But we can listen to them with flat rates or ads. And everyone benefits, including record labels.

    1. Re:Streaming services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazingly true. Went to the local BB today to buy a couple of CDs. Walked out with none. I dont know what I wanted. Didnt hear any of the newer stuff. So I gave it a skip. When you are hearing nothing but the same 30 year old songs on the radio every day you do not really feel like buying new music as you do not know it.

    2. Re:Streaming services by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Somehow the fact that you refer to pirated music as "warez" makes me somewhat skeptical that you have ever actually done so. Warez is the term for cracked software, not music.

      That aside, streaming music services are at least as bad as the ITMS and similar services for the music industry. Back prior to all that hogwash you were pretty limited in your ability to buy music in single track increments. Sure you could get a single, but you couldn't buy 8 out of 11 songs, and if you wanted a song which wasn't as popular you were stuck with buying the album.

      These days, that's not how it's done, you only have to listen to the songs you like without ever having paid for the rest of the tracks. I'm sure that sounds good in theory. But take a look back at previous albums, I doubt most people would've really appreciated the higher quality of Nirvana's Nevermind over their later In Utero, worse in a sense is that if you clip off the non-music from In Utero it's would seem like a better period of work. As things are done more and more like that there is less and less incentive to spread the effort out, rather than focusing on a quality album experience to justify buying the album, that time and money tends to get funneled into a couple of tracks.

      That and the generally poor production quality of so many albums pretty much insures that quality music is going to be much harder to come by than it has been in the past. If we get really lucky, all of this will be largely neutralized by the increasing easy of independent groups getting exposure and producing their own work without the suits.

    3. Re:Streaming services by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but strictly as a risk vs. reward calculation, stealing (er, downloading) music is a really good deal. Free wins out of over pay every time and just about everyone using the Internet is used to the idea of free.

      There are even people writing (er, copying from Wikipedia) books about free.

      The music "industry" can't embrace "free" because there is no other product, it is all just recorded music. The record companies have never had a big stake in live performances or anything else other than selling recorded music in one form or another. If it is all available for free, then there isn't anything else for them.

    4. Re:Streaming services by sopssa · · Score: 1

      You forget that in free with ads/premium supported service you get way more listeners, and when you make it more convenient you also stop warez (yes, i know what it means but it can be meant for all of that).

      The usual arguement with pirates have been that good music will survive anyways because those who do it for their love will get support. Well, these free streaming help a great amount in that. Someone likes their music and he just pastes link to their friends and suddenly theres a lot more listeners, who also can spread it further. And if you have lots of listeners, you'll also have more revenue.

    5. Re:Streaming services by sopssa · · Score: 0

      You're answering to my post about spotify and such services, but have you actually test it? Its free, but it still supports artists and its legal. Pretty much everyone I know have converted from illegally downloading music to spotify because its just so convenient and gives everything you need. There hasn't been really a reason to use torrents etc after spotify came out, because it does actually pwn them. Yeah, I'm still surprised even after an year. But its a GREAT service.

    6. Re:Streaming services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      I love sharing my listening habits with the RIAA! Spotify - fuck yeah!

    7. Re:Streaming services by Kozz · · Score: 1

      Somehow the fact that you refer to pirated music as "warez" makes me somewhat skeptical that you have ever actually done so.

      I bet he also pronounces similar to the Mexican city of Juarez. (Dammit people, it's just like "wares" but with a "z"!)

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    8. Re:Streaming services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't need sales when they have lawsuits.

    9. Re:Streaming services by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      The first problem with your post is you used the word quality next to Nirvana. After that, its hard to take any of your post seriously.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    10. Re:Streaming services by ethana2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I get my music from jamendo. It's creative commons licensed and awesome. As for software, I do it with Ubuntu. --and let me tell you, Freedom IS the way to go.

    11. Re:Streaming services by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem is off course that Spotify is already burning a lot of money, and almost nothing coming back in, love Spotify myself, but do not believe they will survive for long.

    12. Re:Streaming services by sopssa · · Score: 1

      You could say the same about twitter aswell. They're not bringing *anything* back in revenue yet, just building their base. However spotify is still bringing back about $100 000 a month back, and they have some resourceful companies backing them up. Recently with internet times and investations you dont really need to bring anything back just the right away, but build the market and userbase which will benefit you later. Like Google ran for years too (it was 4-5 years later when they started monetarizing with ads, and you see where they are now)

    13. Re:Streaming services by ghostdoc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      How come 'the album' merits preserving as an ideal unit of quality music?

      An album is based on the available bandwidth in a vinyl 12-inch record, not on the attention span of the listeners or on the creative urges of the artist(s). So how come it's sacrosant?

      So much of this debate is riddled with "it's been that way since I started listening to music, so that's the way it MUST stay" points of view, mostly from people who are so heavily plugged in to the music scene they're almost incapable of stepping back and seeing all the other possibilities.

      Music is about to emerge from the ultra-commercial cocoon it's been in for 50 years, and I can't wait to see what it turns into

       

      --
      Business/App ideas are like arseholes: everyone's got one, they're mostly shit, but very rarely they contain a diamond
    14. Re:Streaming services by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      Except that this has been happening long before iTunes or even Napster. Radio, singles, "Greatest Hits" compilations, and mixtapes all helped in some way to kill off the album long before the Internet came along.

  3. Film at 11. by palegray.net · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Industry with a track record of charging insane prices for crappy products, ripping off artists who they claim to represent, and developing a business model of suing their own customers in gross abuse of the legal process is experiencing financial difficulties. We'll be providing blow-by-blow coverage.

    1. Re:Film at 11. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      We'll be providing blow-by-blow coverage.

      That's great! Just don't forget the hookers.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Film at 11. by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Can we buy tickets to this death match, or will it only be on PPV?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re:Film at 11. by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      We'll be providing blow-by-blow coverage.

      As in, you're going to the coke party that the music industry execs throw with all their profits?

    4. Re:Film at 11. by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      It's the same crappy industry that charged insane prices for crappy products and ripped off artists for many, many years and had enormous profits to show for it. That leaves us with suing its customers, but I suspect that that is a symptom, not a cause of its demise. So, for cause I'm afraid you have to look elsewhere (hint: file sharing). Not that I'm sorry at all that its going, but we might as well be honest. I am just curious to see what will replace it and will it be any better.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    5. Re:Film at 11. by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It really is bizarre, much more than the usual situation. Actors and directors, for example, kvetch about Hollywood, but I haven't seen nearly the same level of anti-studio invective from prominent directors and actors as I have seen anti-music-industry invective from prominent musicians. The RIAA types seem to have done a remarkably thorough job in pissing off the people they claim to represent, across a wide swathe of genres.

    6. Re:Film at 11. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To summarize this discussion (and every other Slashdot d-iscussion on the subject):

        The record industry is greedy, crappy, stupid, bullying, backwards, dinosaurs, coke-swilling, limousine-riding, lets-do-lunch-baby-partying, Britney Spears-pushing, consumer-ripoff-perpetrating, band-ripoff-perpetrating, copyright-law-abusing, $18.98-CD-with-one-decent-track and-thats-being-generous-pushing, ridiculous, "rediculous", whining... (+5, insightful)

      Not to mention the RIAA is greedy, crappy, stupid, bullying, backwards, dinosaurs, coke-swilling, limousine-riding, lets-do-lunch-baby-partying, Britney Spears-pushing, consumer-ripoff-perpetrating, band-ripoff-perpetrating.... (+5 informative)

      AND there are MANY outstanding indy alternatives out there!

      Here's my question:

      So why do piracy at all? Why not patronize those indy alternatives, and stop trying to justify copyright violation. In other words, boycott, don't steal (oops "infringe").(0, troll)

      This is all rather childish.

    7. Re:Film at 11. by palegray.net · · Score: 1

      I don't justify copyright violation. I have a Pandora subscription ($36/year is a pretty damned good deal for what you get), I buy individual tracks from iTunes and Amazon, I support independent artists directly, and I refuse to buy CDs unless they're the kind burned in the basement studio of an indie group I happen to like.

      I find it rather childish of you to assume I'm at all interested in violating someone else's copyright.

    8. Re:Film at 11. by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Actors and Directors have a union, and are more or less required to get representation (sometimes even competent representation) when dealing with the studio. Agents may be slimy, but at least they're working for you, not the studio.

      Musicians on the other hand have no such safety mechanisms and are pretty routinely screwed by the music labels because they have virtually no power at the bargaining table. The labels (used to) control all of the major distribution channels, so you either signed away everything to them or you stayed a no name bar band. That was literally the only two options. If you got to megastar status, you could really negotiate on the contract, but that was a one in a million chance.

      With the internet the studios are losing their ironclad grip on the distribution channel and it's showing. Their profits are falling off rapidly as people discover that they don't have to sign their life away just to be heard.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    9. Re:Film at 11. by dpilot · · Score: 1

      Gee, you're suggesting that unions may actually perform some good. Seems like for a long time unions have been the whipping boy around here, serving only to suck money out the system and hold back Progress (TM). (I know that's group-think... seems to me that some unions have lost track of their true purpose and given the institution a bad name, but the function is needed, now as much as ever.)

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    10. Re:Film at 11. by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Unions provide an very strong check against employer abuse, but they have historically proven to be prone to corruption and overly resistant to profound shifts in the marketplace. In other words, they'll fight tooth and nail to protect jobs that are obsolete and ultimately doomed (either through the eventual loss of the job anyway, or the company going under because it is hiring too many obsolete workers).

      Unions are messy, but they're the best system we have for keeping companies in check. Anybody who thinks that companies will look out for the best interests of its workers without some sort of external pressure is fooling themselves. Theoretically strong government regulation could prevent the need for unions, but in practice government is too focused on the big picture to effectively deal with the kinds of concerns that Unions address.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
  4. irony by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 5, Insightful

    An article about an industry that is dying, published by an industry that is dying. Both are being killed by the same new technology.

    1. Re:irony by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      An article about an industry that is dying, published by an industry that is dying. Both are being killed by the same new technology.

      Any bets on which one goes belly-up first?

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:irony by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      The buggy whip industry.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    3. Re:irony by jerep · · Score: 1

      Funny how most institutions will stop progress so they themselves can live longer until nobody wants them, when they did the same thing to the institutions they replaced.

      Its part of progress. The music industry isnt the music, music will always live on no matter what media form it takes. Forcing people through old technology and high prices so you can get your golf weekends will only last so long.

    4. Re:irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same new ad-based technology?

    5. Re:irony by Saxerman · · Score: 3, Informative

      Right, these are RIAA numbers. Since when did we care what spin doctoring they did to their own numbers to try and justify their war on piracy? The only slant this article gives the numbers is that there are more and growing opportunities to listen to music for free... a fact the RIAA mentioned no where. But, guess what? Since around the 1950s or so, we've all been able to listen to music for free over the radio. And the Boston Strangler aside, the advent of the portable music player has only made music more accessible.

      The fact that we're in a fairly serious global recession coupled to the inflation they sprinkle on the numbers might make them look tragic. But last I checked, everyone still wants music. They just don't have as much to spend on it right now. I don't see the music industry going anywhere.

      Well, the major labels might vanish. But they stopped being a required piece of the music industry more than 10 years ago. Course, they won't really vanish unless their copyrights actually expire. Or our generation dies out and is replaced by a culture that believes music should be enjoyed rather than owned.

      --

      A steaming cup of soykaf would be real wiz right now.

    6. Re:irony by bogjobber · · Score: 1

      Video games?

    7. Re:irony by thogard · · Score: 1

      Sometimes the technology can be the problem.

      I think the biggest killer of CD sales was the "Digital Remastered" phase where they insisted that all the albums have the same volume level for all the songs. They "fixed" the songs by running them through an auto-compressor which chops off the loudest bits of the song (causing distortion) and boosting the level of the rest of the music. The result is it kills the emotion that people used to feel with for the music. Some music tricks the auto compressor into not doing anything and some examples of that are the popular tracks of Jacko's Thriller and most rap. As long as Clear Channel sticks with their requirements and they stay so cozy with the RIAA, this is not going to change.

      There was a time when the RIAA did good things. They set standards that made recoded music sound much better. Too bad they lost the plot long ago.

    8. Re:irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      neither. both will be given government assistance to restructure into something different. we just dont let industries die. it's unpopular.

    9. Re:irony by jerep · · Score: 1

      Yeah, which is why a lot of audiophiles prefer vinyls to CDs, why lots more prefer CDs to mp3s, and others mp3s to youtube. Its obvious that the more accessible something is the less quality its gonna have compared to more refined formats which take more time and resources to get.

      I do agree the RIAA did some good things, but the masses of bad and evil things they did and now stand for completely overwhelm the rest.

    10. Re:irony by dpilot · · Score: 1

      All humor aside, there is a very real problem here, common to both "publishing" industries you mention. It's one that has been poorly (far worse by music) handled by both industries in the old mode, and still isn't properly/pervasively handled in any new mode, and that's payment for content creators. (musicians and journalists) In both cases the public grew to think that the value was in the products that they held in their hands instead of the work done to create the content. In both cases, the industries did little do dispell that impression, because so little of the money went to the content creators, and so much into running the industry, itself.

      Where they differ is that the public has a decent understanding of the value of paying musicians, as well as a tolerance of the idea of Rock Stars making big bucks. The same does not appear to be true of journalism, where one has to remember that Anderson Cooper (to pick one at random) is really more of a Rock Star than a journalist. The country will suffer far more from a lack of paid journalism than from a lack of Rock Stars, or even paid musicians.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  5. The traditional music industry is a buggy whip by lena_10326 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The artist will win. No more signing away most your rights with shady contracts. No more skimming 99.9 cents on the dollar for CD sales. No more lock in for future albums. Artists are making their money by selling direct to consumers with online distribution channels because it gives the unknown artist a shot. It also promotes better music because when the consumer has better choice, they will choose better music.

    The direct sales channels will continue to grow and standardize so I expect the traditional industry losses will accelerate.

    --
    Camping on quad since 1996.
    1. Re:The traditional music industry is a buggy whip by cobrachaos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe its a sign of a revolution of free thinkers! After all MTV is the Queen of spoonfeeding the masses the crap we've had to endure for the past twenty years, how else will I know what type of music I like unless they tell me so? yeah I said queen, cause lets face it we're all just ants to them.

    2. Re:The traditional music industry is a buggy whip by FormerComposer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It also promotes better music because when the consumer has better choice, they will choose better music.

      I got out of the retail record business over 25 years ago because the industry was rapidly losing its customers to consumers. They weren't choosing better music; they were choosing cheaper music. Saving 50 cents on Saturday Night Fever was more important than their store actually having a wide selection of interesting sounds. Eventually, it wasn't worth it to stock the better; only the popular.

      I blame the Decline of Western Civilization on the Rise of the Consumer. YMMV.

      --
      For most purposes, 355/113 is close enough.
    3. Re:The traditional music industry is a buggy whip by countertrolling · · Score: 3, Funny

      The rumors of our death are highly exaggerated

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    4. Re:The traditional music industry is a buggy whip by thogard · · Score: 1

      The RIAA's members don't want lots of products. They are in the business of selling plastic things and the fact that music is on it has little to do with most of the distribution channel. There is just way too much music to deal with as CDs in a store. A few years ago a local radio station ran a contest where bands had to submit an album (7+ songs?) and nominated a song that wasn't a cover and it had to have been produced in the previous year. The radio station had a coverage area of about 3 million people and they got 3000 albums. To me that means the billion people that have access to the equipment should be able to produce about a million unique albums a year. How many can a record store stock?

    5. Re:The traditional music industry is a buggy whip by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      spoonfeeding the masses the crap we've had to endure for the past twenty years

      Point of order, plenty of music has been both popular and good in the past twenty years.

      I hate this myth that it hasn't, which is often pushed on ./ .

      --
      Read Pynchon.
    6. Re:The traditional music industry is a buggy whip by tepples · · Score: 1

      It also promotes better music because when the consumer has better choice, they will choose better music.

      So how can independent artists convince "the consumer" to seek out better music? The FM radio played at work and in the car plays only recordings distributed by the major labels.

    7. Re:The traditional music industry is a buggy whip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, clearly if music is mass released, it must be crap. If a lot of people like it, it must be total crap. If it sells really well, it has to be complete and utter crap!

      It's so cool and hip to bag on popular things! I'm such a unique and different trendsetter for knocking the popular stuff!

    8. Re:The traditional music industry is a buggy whip by dpilot · · Score: 1

      I would argue that for the most part, the production chain is responsible for the "Rise of the Consumer", using "Consumer" as the derogatory you imply. "They" don't want discerning "customers," they want gullible "consumers" who will buy whatever is being sold. In this case, you're getting squeezed out of the middle, because "customers" are the lifeblood of local retailers.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  6. The reason... by Darkness404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reason why streaming music is taking over is because radio is crap. Seriously, if you don't like hip hop, pop, country or classic rock, there are -no- stations other than that anymore. If you have musical tastes other than that, too bad. You won't find any terrestrial radio that plays that. So because of that people stream more, in general streaming music ends up being better and have a greater variety. If I can't find a terrestrial radio station that plays music I like, I'm going to then listen to streaming music. Because of that, why buy the music when you can with a bit of searching find the streaming music?

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:The reason... by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The radio plays those genres? I thought it just played DJ's and ads.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    2. Re:The reason... by v1 · · Score: 1

      The reason why streaming music is taking over is because radio is crap.

      Maybe I'm the exception here, but I listen to streaming music all day at work because radio reception stinks where I work. Fortunately the local station I like to listen to has an online stream.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    3. Re:The reason... by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Close.

      They play the top 10 in rotation with a healthy dose of ads in between. Basically, they're computer automated acoustic drive-by billboards. Tune in my friend. Tune in...*sic*

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    4. Re:The reason... by FudRucker · · Score: 1

      there are two local FM stations i can tolerate listening to, one is NPR and the other plays jazz (not pop but real jazz)

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    5. Re:The reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously, if you don't like hip hop, pop, country or classic rock, there are -no- stations other than that anymore. If you have musical tastes other than that, too bad.

      Someone tell that to the public radio stations around here - they're playing jazz and classical. Don't they know they don't exist?!

    6. Re:The reason... by intx13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The reason why streaming music is taking over is because radio is crap. Seriously, if you don't like hip hop, pop, country or classic rock, there are -no- stations other than that anymore. If you have musical tastes other than that, too bad.

      You could easily write that as: "If you have musical tastes that aren't the same as the majority, too bad." But that's pretty much expected, right? Imagine liking orchestral music when big band took off. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "crap". A lot of people like Miley Cyrus and don't care if it's not skillfully performed music. Radio, like any limited-spectrum broadcast medium, caters to the majority.

      If dislike in radio genres was substantial enough to impact the music industry's bottom line (via "switchers" to streaming media) the radio stations would adjust accordingly.

      I think what is increasing demand in streaming media is availability, ease of use, and cost. The state of streaming "Internet radio" 10 years ago was pitiful. Since then we have standardized technologies, better quality, and (however grudgingly) music label support. Along with reasonable costs (free in many cases!), increased access to high-bandwidth Internet connections, and more legitimacy in not owning physical albums, tapes, CDs, etc. streaming becomes a viable media delivery method.

    7. Re:The reason... by jerep · · Score: 1

      The radio only plays music as bait to get the clueless listeners into the ads. Much like tv or magasines do.

    8. Re:The reason... by webdog314 · · Score: 1

      Not to belittle your point (I actually agree with you that radio is crap), but when has it ever been any different? Aside from hip-hop, which is a relatively new genre on the radio, hasn't it always been pop, country, and "classic" rock? I suppose you could claim there were "indy" stations, but that was mostly just a way to play the stuff that was too esoteric in it's day to make it big (think Kate Bush and B-52's).

      The money has ALWAYS been with "pop". Duh. And pop-ular music has pretty much always been decided by someone else telling you that band X is great, and that if you want to be "current" you need to like them. I can argue the musical superiority of grunge, heavy metal or movie soundtracks, but I'll still be a freak to the greater percentage of the population. So. The greater percentage of the population also has an IQ of 105.

    9. Re:The reason... by Yeef · · Score: 1

      To be fair, he never said that what the radio plays was crap; he said "radio is crap" and explained why, as a service, he doesn't care for radio.

      --
      I was once a horse.
    10. Re:The reason... by interkin3tic · · Score: 0, Troll

      Seriously, if you don't like hip hop, pop, country or classic rock, there are -no- stations other than that anymore.

      Don't forget christian radio stations. Driving through the flyover states, that's about all you'll pickup. Even if you have an FM adapter on your MP3 player, you'll have to reset it every 20 minutes because there are so many goddamn christian radio stations.

    11. Re:The reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      even closer.

      you never drive by them, they're in your car all of the time, eliminating that need. you can be perfectly still and still be pestered by radio ads.

    12. Re:The reason... by Secret+Agent+X23 · · Score: 1

      A lot of people like Miley Cyrus and don't care if it's not skillfully performed music.

      Oh, but it's very skillfully performed music. Very slick and professional and highly polished. But the problem is, there's little or nothing more to it than that.

    13. Re:The reason... by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      you never drive by them,

      they're in your car all of the time,

      eliminating that need.

      you can be perfectly still and still be pestered by radio ads.

      Burma Shave.

      --
      Squirrel!
    14. Re:The reason... by dkf · · Score: 1

      Radio, like any limited-spectrum broadcast medium, caters to the majority.

      The problem comes if all radio stations insist on chasing the same small number of market segments, rather than finding a more distinctive voice that attracts and holds a particular group. This can be very profitable in advertising terms if that group is comparatively wealthy and inclined to spend, as advertisers love to target their money more effectively. But I suspect that the rot has persisted a bit too long in the US for this to be fixable there; the groups that have been driven away will no longer consider coming back to radio ("because it's all mainstream crap"). Just don't try to extrapolate from the situation in the US to other parts of the world; they're not all that badly fucked.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    15. Re:The reason... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Seriously, if you don't like hip hop, pop, country or classic rock, there are -no- stations other than that anymore. If you have musical tastes other than that, too bad. You won't find any terrestrial radio that plays that.

      We have a mexican polka station here. It's often the best thing on the radio other than NPR.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    16. Re:The reason... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's "crap".

      Just because millions of people like it doesn't mean it's not crap.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  7. Switching was an easy choice by Yxven · · Score: 1

    I don't have to manage my playlist or do anything extra to discover new music.
    The variety of stations available online means that I never have to listen to music that's stale.
    I can listen from any computer in the house.
    It costs nothing.
    The amount of commercials is tolerable.

    The only downside is that I can't find any riaa-free stations. Does anyone know of any?

    1. Re:Switching was an easy choice by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      The only downside is that I can't find any riaa-free stations. Does anyone know of any?

      Easy way is to listen to non-American music. Of course, usually you end up with music from the foreign equivalents to the RIAA. But really, most of the bands I listen to are either European or Asian, very few actually are American.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  8. "Music Industry" by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If by music industry you mean anything that is distributed in the form of iTunes or mp3's with a useful half life of a month or so, I'm all for its demise and good riddance.

    The vast majority of that sort of stuff is dung. If we are talking about taxing cigarettes and sugary carbonated soda and fast food, no reason to not extend that to this sort of "music" as well.

    Once this sort of stuff is gone maybe people will get a chance to listen to real music, in person or played back on high-fidelity equipment.

    It might be an epiphany.

    1. Re:"Music Industry" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Careful, I think you just jizzed all over your useless and pointless expensive equipment Mr. Audiophile.

    2. Re:"Music Industry" by m85476585 · · Score: 1

      Why do you think everyone needs quality equipment? I have been using cheap headphones (earbuds) that come with my MP3 players for years, and I was perfectly happy. I started reading bad things about iPod headphones, so I decided to try some $30 ones that got good reviews. The sound quality is much better, but now I can hear all the flaws added along the way, especially MP3 compression under 256k and background noise in my computer's sound card (I think the new headphones are higher impedance, so I have to use them at a lower volume setting, so the signal is lower but the noise is the same, so the SNR is worse). I can also hear flaws in the music itself to some extent, but in most cases I probably wouldn't even notice if a note was wrong since I don't know much about music.

      I was perfectly happy before, and I am somewhat happy now, though not perfectly happy since I can hear all these flaws. I could get a better sound card and re-encode everything in FLAC, but then I might start noticing that the headphones are really not very good compared to $150+ ones, and the cycle would repeat. Why go down the slippery slope when people can be perfectly happy with average equipment? The point of music is entertainment, not listening to what you consider "real" or "good" music with not even the slightest deviation in sound from what the artist heard. I listen to music I like, and I don't listen to music I don't like. I don't care if someone else considers it "good" or not, though I will take suggestions when I am looking for new music. A lot of times people will give some old artist as an example of "great" music, then I go listen to it, and I never find myself really liking any of it.

      Could your definition of "good" music be related to the purity? Classical is very pure and expertly composed, with just a few particular instruments. Later, more instruments were invented, and they had new sounds that purists would say are not "real" music. Then, electric amplification, with all its distortion was introduced. More recently electronically synthesized and now computer synthesized music (including effects like autotune) became more common. Personally, I find myself liking music with a new and different sound more than "purer" music even if the latter has more of an underlying musical basis.

    3. Re:"Music Industry" by SlashdottedOnix · · Score: 1

      I wish too good ridance to the industry that treats the 3rd world consumer like crap. Let me tell you something, as a mexican, I am forced to belch up to 5 times what you americans or europeans spend in a record store. I have no itunes music store. Sure Apple sells Ipods in latin america, but doesn't let me put stuff I'd usually put IN AN IPOD. You may have hard of this: Music? Movies? Podcasts? Any of these ring a bell? I am forced to opt for piracy, and only buy a original CD when the band's really worth it. Continue treating us like that and we'll still steal money from you. An eye for an eye! Note: Not 2 seconds as I was ready to post this comment, this slashdotter recieved an Email from Apple... there is a latin america music APPLE ITUNES STORE NOW... I am now convinced that Apple follows my every move. I HATE YOU APPLE! FIRST YOU STOLE THE HOME MOVIE DIGITAL RENTAL IDEA AND NOW THIS!!!

  9. CDs are for old people by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

    Duh, CDs are for old people. The RIAA should concentrate on expanding into the untapped market of North Korea.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    1. Re:CDs are for old people by DigiShaman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      CD used to be worth buying prior to the RIAA getting greedy and homogenizing the music into bland Muzak. To make matters worse, all new and re-released albums suffer from the "Loudness War" mastering. So before all this crap happened in the industry, CDs were about quality and hi-fidelity.

      FYI, I treat my old stock CDs like faberge eggs. Priceless!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:CDs are for old people by Stormwatch · · Score: 2, Funny

      FYI, I treat my old stock CDs like faberge eggs. Priceless!

      Don't be selfish. If you have good stuff, start a torrent of it!

  10. Decimated... by HisMother · · Score: 4, Informative
    ... refers to the loss of one out of ten soldiers. If their sales are down by half, they've already been decimated five times over.

    </pedantry>

    --
    Cantankerous old coot since 1957.
    1. Re:Decimated... by Tau+Neutrino · · Score: 5, Funny

      If their sales are down by half, they've already been decimated five times over.

      Actually, if sales had been decimated once, they would be at 90% of their previous level. Twice, they'd be at 81%. Five times, at 59.049%.

      To get to 50%, they'd have to have been decimated approximately 6.578 times.

      Pedantic even longer.

      --
      Lemmings are silly; dinosaurs are extinct.
    2. Re:Decimated... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While we're being pedantic...

      Seven times, actually (well, 6.5788 times):

      0.9^5 = 0.5905
      0.9^6 = 0.5314
      0.9^7 = 0.4783

    3. Re:Decimated... by metallurge · · Score: 1

      ... actually, to achieve a 50% reduction in the original amount, approximately 6.6 decimations are required.
      </pedantry>

    4. Re:Decimated... by KahabutDieDrake · · Score: 1

      You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

    5. Re:Decimated... by Al+Al+Cool+J · · Score: 1

      One could argue that since they are not losing any soldiers, they are not being decimated at all.

    6. Re:Decimated... by shma · · Score: 1

      Main Entry: decimate
      Function:transitive verb

      3 a: to reduce drastically especially in number (cholera decimated the population)
      b: to cause great destruction or harm to (firebombs decimated the city) (an industry decimated by recession)

      --
      I came here for a good argument
    7. Re:Decimated... by selven · · Score: 1

      Decimation was often done by drawing lots. Since people who are already dead can't draw lots, each time only live people would get chosen so the overlap that causes it to be 81% rather than 80% after 2 rounds is non-existent. Thus, 5 decimations = 50% reduction.

      Pedantic level 3.

    8. Re:Decimated... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now that, Sir, is some impressive nerd-fu.

      Slashdot--come for the news--stay for the meta-pedantry!

    9. Re:Decimated... by xigxag · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Every single time someone uses the word "decimated" online, this comes up. Actually your definition is misleading to the point of being useless. "Decimated" didn't refer to the mere LOSS of ten percent of soldiers, as if toppled by enemy forces. It was unique form of punishment inflicted on mutinous legions which involved selecting 10% of their ranks by lot to be killed, and forcing the remaining 90% to execute the sentence. This punishment no longer exists, so the word has been repurposed to mean any large-scale ruthless culling. Why is it so objectionable for a word to change meaning over 2000 years?

      --
      There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
    10. Re:Decimated... by Ian_Mi · · Score: 1

      Actually, six times. 0.9^7 0.5 0.9^6.

    11. Re:Decimated... by swillden · · Score: 1

      But wrong level 1.

      Start with 100 people.

      10 draw lots, are killed, 90 left.

      9 (10% of 90) draw lots, are killed, 81 left.

      8 (10% of 81) draw lots, are killed, 73 left.

      7 draw lots, are killed, 66 left

      7 draw lots, are killed, 59 left

      6 draw lots, are killed, 53 left

      5 draw lots, are killed, 48 left.

      It took 7 rounds to get below 50.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    12. Re:Decimated... by selven · · Score: 1

      If you're going to recount the people left after each round why not just kill everybody and call it a day?

    13. Re:Decimated... by Chemisor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe in Roman times it did. These days it means "drastically reduced", or perhaps "down to one-tenth". Meaning of words changes. Get the f*@k over it already!

    14. Re:Decimated... by swillden · · Score: 1

      Because we're talking about repeated decimation, not extermination?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    15. Re:Decimated... by jandrese · · Score: 1

      I suppose you complain that when someone ties a Bow in their hair that they didn't specify if it was a Compound or Reflex? I'm pretty sure they're using the third meaning of decimated.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    16. Re:Decimated... by selven · · Score: 1

      I tried to make a ridiculous argument and you showed its ridiculousness. Now, I'll nuke the discussion with the modern definition of decimate

      verb (used with object), -mated, -mating. 1. to destroy a great number or proportion of: The population was decimated by a plague.
      2. to select by lot and kill every tenth person of.
      3. Obsolete. to take a tenth of or from.

      Notice how the one we're talking about is not even the main definition of the word anymore, and applying the definition to the music industry falls under (3), which is even obsolete.

    17. Re:Decimated... by swillden · · Score: 1

      :-)

      Yeah... the word has changed, which is what makes being pedantic about the original meaning (and the one you still get if you pull the pieces of the word apart) so much fun!

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    18. Re:Decimated... by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      "Shall we decimate them? That sounds good, nice word, decimate. Remove one tenth of the population!"
      -- The Master; Doctor Who: The Sound of Drums

      "10 percent. We want 10 percent. We want 10 percent of the children of this world."
      -- The 456; Torchwood: Children of Earth

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  11. Update the pricing of music by zlel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There was once, music tapes cost SGD $8. When CDs hit the market, they cost SGD $30, but it was promised that they would go down to the same price as tapes one day. Isn't it time to sell full albums at SGD $5, considering the volume that the music industry is able to produce? Isn't that what industries do best - to give what the market wants at a cost leveraged by the economics of scale? Given that the packaging that comes with the CD does cost something to make, but essentially, isn't music, as a commodity, like software - make once, and sell it many times over? Given the international market exposed by the internet, is online music, too, overpriced? Or perhaps society needs to rethink the place of musicians - perhaps they could be like open source software authors, who have a day job?

    1. Re:Update the pricing of music by Earthquake+Retrofit · · Score: 1

      Or perhaps society needs to rethink the place of musicians - perhaps they could be like open source software authors, who have a day job?

      Most of us are just like that.

      Steve

      --
      Fifty years of Yippie! 1968-2018
    2. Re:Update the pricing of music by edwiin · · Score: 1

      it's about the perceived value of the item, in this case the form that it's being bought. it's convenience and it's hardcopy or softcopy for whatever you want to do with it. It's simply the perceived value.

    3. Re:Update the pricing of music by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or perhaps society needs to rethink the place of musicians - perhaps they could be like open source software authors, who have a day job?

      Many of them are. Conversely many/most of the bands making a full time living from music don't have a quality to their output that reflects a full time commitment.

      In the end, you don't get to be a good performing band by doing it part time. 8 hours a day 5 days a week commitment is not uncommon and bands have outgoings on equipment, rent, travel and board that dwarf those required to be a software author.

  12. Inconsistency? by pgn674 · · Score: 1

    The article says that digital purchases were down from 2007 to 2008, but the graphic shows that both download album and download single peaked in 2008, meaning they rose from 2007 to 2008. Did I mis-interpret or miss something?

    1. Re:Inconsistency? by jerep · · Score: 1

      Didnt you know, graphs arent meant to be analyzed intelligently, they are only there so people go Ohhh and Ahhh and agree to whatever bullshit you throw at them.

    2. Re:Inconsistency? by AstronomicUID · · Score: 1

      Great! I'm going to use that as a footnote in my thesis!

      --
      You must write The Book, and then tear away belief. Only you can save the light of man --Gary Numan
  13. Record Industry by bjustice · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Record Industry's Crisis Writ Large

    There, fixed that for you. The record industry is the one that makes money on recordings. The music industry is the one that makes money on music in general including concerts. The music industry is fine and will be fine. The record industry is fucked.

    1. Re:Record Industry by Relic+of+the+Future · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Absolutely right! There are more artists, making more music, doing more concerts, and pulling in more money, than ever before. Music is doing fine. Selling records is the only thing that's hurting. (Requisite car analogy: it wasn't the transportation industry that cars put out of business, it was the horse and buggy industry.)

      --
      Those who fail to understand communication protocols, are doomed to repeat them over port 80.
    2. Re:Record Industry by CSMatt · · Score: 1

      The record industry is fucked.

      I should think so. Records haven't been excessively popular since the CD took over.

  14. Music industry not dying by RedWizzard · · Score: 4, Informative
    It's not the music industry that's dying, it's the recording industry. It's become clear that the money people are not spending on recorded music they are instead spending on live music:

    These reports all say the same thing: concert ticket sales growth more than makes up for the decline in recorded music sales.

    1. Re:Music industry not dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only Jackson hadn't passed away. Ugh. His comeback concerts would've brought about insane new tickets and record sales.

  15. Industry ONLY?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They speak of the 'Music Industry' as if it incorporates ALL musical acts out there.... A few questions for the 'Music Industry', and all you fans out there.

    How many bands out there are unsigned? How many of those bands have their music available to listen to, or buy, on the web? How easy is it to trade those bands tracks, between friends?

    The sad part of all this 'Music Industry' broo-haha, is that there is large market that the 'Music Industry' doesn't touch, monetarily. And guess what. They don't know how much it is, but they can speculate, and claim it directly effects their bottom line on reports like this one, and every other report we've heard about for the past several years.

    Should I believe these reports that claim the 'Music Industry' is in dire straights? No. And neither should you. Between 'complex accounting' practices, and the complete monopoly of an Industry for almost the past 100 years, and the fact that a band can curtail the entire industry and make it on their own, shows you that, though they still are king of the hill in the industry, in their current form, their obsolescence is inevitable. And THAT is what scares them.

  16. I see what you did there. by mano.m · · Score: 1

    'Track record', eh? Tee hee. Very clever.

    --
    Karma fed to this user will be promptly burnt. Be warned; be wary.
  17. Alternative Sources for Musical Enjoyment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They do things like put music onto myspace and into video games and kids hear the song there and then the execs wonder why the kids are not buying CDs, and it's like "for fuck sake, how many times do you want them to purchase the same song?"

  18. Streaming in the 80s by GPLHost-Thomas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When I was a teen, about 15 years ago, I was also listening to streams. But at the time, it was called ... FM radio!

    1. Re:Streaming in the 80s by NervousNerd · · Score: 1

      Yeah, 1994 called and told me to tell you that it isn't "the 80s".

  19. Decimate means reduce by ten per cent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sheesh.

  20. Hi. by tthomas48 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hi. I'm the American actor, violinist, ballet dancer, and sculptor. We have little sympathy. Welcome back to having to make art because you love it, and not because you expect it to be a lottery ticket.

    1. Re:Hi. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      American actors don't make a lot of money???

    2. Re:Hi. by BlueBoxSW.com · · Score: 1

      You are so right. Most artists don't really make a lot of money.

      Sure, some become a brand, and the brand makes money, but for the most part, you've got to do what you do because you love it.

      I've known a few brewmasters, and they're great people who make awesome beer and can tell you all about the craft for hours and hours.

      There's a high demand for their art, and no two brewmasters are the same.

      Yet the pay is piss poor. Partly because you're always going to be able to find a fairly skilled brewmaster to fill the spot, and partly because the overall amount of time you have to put in is huge and difficult to reduce, even when you're an expert.

      But, what a freakin' dream job for so many people.

    3. Re:Hi. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0, Troll

      This is why the American system is so horribly, horribly wrong. The government should be giving money so that artists can produce art and still have comfortable lives. I mean, look at America, look at the shitty people who have good lives - why should they? The government should take from them and give to those who are more deserving.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    4. Re:Hi. by Tau+Neutrino · · Score: 1

      I think the great majority of musicians are right there with you. It's the "music industry" executives who expect a free ride.

      --
      Lemmings are silly; dinosaurs are extinct.
    5. Re:Hi. by selven · · Score: 1

      Five of them do.

    6. Re:Hi. by Mithyx · · Score: 1

      I believe he's referring to stage actors, mostly.

    7. Re:Hi. by Tsujiku · · Score: 1

      I believe he means non-Hollywood actor.

      --
      Paradox
    8. Re:Hi. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi. I'm the American actor, violinist, ballet dancer, and sculptor. We have little sympathy. Welcome back to having to make art because you love it, and not because you expect it to be a lottery ticket.

      Huh? I don't know about ballet or sculpting, but the vast majority of teenage boys that start up rock bands are doing it in the belief that it will help them get laid.

  21. The $250,000 economy car by zogger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These "music industry" people want the equivalent of 250 thou for a 25 grand commuter car. nuts. They wonder why sales are off, whereas a billion music purchasers know exactly why sales are off, they just don't feel like getting price gouged anymore.

    I suggest the "music industry" lay off all the coke and booze for a year or two then come back and rethink their stance on pricing, for digital bits down the tubes or the same digital bits on two cents worth of plastic. Their "per unit" pricing is from decades ago, it doesn't come close to anything rational anymore. When it was very expensive to make a copy for sale, sure, it was understandable, but now, today?? Who are they kidding besides themselves?

        Tech advances and much cheaper bandwith should have allowed them to both drop prices dramatically, plus increase sales dramatically, instead, they have clung to those old price models like a wino to a jug of t-bird with ten drops left swirling around the bottom. It's pathetic really. I bought music pretty steady from the late 50s until the 90s, that's forty years of being a customer..then...just finally one day got annoyed with the price gouging, quit then, my one guy boycott. I don't pirate, but I won't pay those ludicrous prices either for some digital download copy (a buck for a few megs, who do they thing they are, telco ringtone sellers??), and certainly not a lot of folding dollars for a dime's worth of plastic with some cardboard "liner" nonsense.

    OK, maybe the car analogy sucks, how about computers? A decade ago, what did a decent desktop system go for, and what were the specs? Now, today, you can get something much faster, with equivalent increases in installed RAM and larger HDD and better video card etc, and for much less cash. You gets lots more, for less money, because of tech advances. And that's tangible hardware, manufactured stuff.

        A decade ago, an album cost how much? And what do they want for it today? Oh ya, the same. And to *download* it they want similar loot? HAHAHAHA

        Like I said, "nuts", you lost a good customer for being price gougers. In fact, looks like you lost millions and millions of customers, and the younger folks are starting to not even *be* customers in the first place, because they know even better that those "copies" just aren't worth what you ask.

    1. Re:The $250,000 economy car by Nightspirit · · Score: 1

      To be fair prices have decreased. Now you can get a lot of CDs at Best Buy or Walmart for $9, and I remember the going price at the Wherehouse used to be $17. Still, $1 a song is ludicrous, I think the allofmp3 model had it right, ~$0.32 a song. Even $0.50 a song is reasonable if the artists gets a good portion. I would probably pay $1 a song if the entire amount went to the artist.

    2. Re:The $250,000 economy car by Wildclaw · · Score: 1

      Their "per unit" pricing is from decades ago, it doesn't come close to anything rational anymore. When it was very expensive to make a copy for sale, sure, it was understandable, but now, today?? Who are they kidding besides themselves?

      What do you think current copyright and patent law is about? Sure, you can come with pretty answers about encouraging creativity. But that is just the pretty talk. In the end, it all comes down to one thing. Current copyright exists to drive up prices of copies by giving a monopoly on each piece of information.

      It is a stupid idea, because all it leads to is less copies being made (and less items in the case of patents). And what does society get for the less copies/items? Well, the remaining copies/items are supposedly of higher quality. However, there is little to indicate that as actually being true. And even if it is, wouldn't it better to come up with a system that allows for wellspread distribution of higher quality items.

    3. Re:The $250,000 economy car by BlueBoxSW.com · · Score: 1

      How about SGML coders?

      20 years ago you had to pay hundreds of dollars an hour for someone to hand code SGML.

      Now, you can get a high school kid to code you up some XML that does the same thing.

    4. Re:The $250,000 economy car by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well actually, there's inflation. $20 in 1998 would be worth $26.30 in 2008 dollars. Likewise, $20 in 2008 would be $15.54 in 1998 dollars.

    5. Re:The $250,000 economy car by WDot · · Score: 1

      Download prices are actually slightly smaller. Whereas an album may be anywhere between $12 and $18 (depending on where you buy it), Amazon regularly lists $9 and $10 albums (Itunes sits somewhere in between). That's not a huge difference, but it is a difference, and it's a lot better than the game industry, where the boxed copy is often less than or equal in price to the digital download.

    6. Re:The $250,000 economy car by frogjimmy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      These "music industry" people want the equivalent of 250 thou for a 25 grand commuter car. nuts.

      I am a music aficionado (who isn't) who has a massive CD collection nearing a thousand. There are three CDs that came out within the last 9 month that were released at a price of over $22 per disc. Brand new. Take note suffering industry, as this is what I did: 1) Got mad as hell. 2) Downloaded EACH album. Free. 3) Resigned for these acts to come to Toronto on tour, and buy the CD from them. Even if it is $22 at the door, I know the batsh!t insane markup goes into their pocket and not HMV. This is what happens when people care. They find solutions that work for them.

  22. (S)he who sings by the sword, falls by the sword. by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The way I see it, the recording/copying technology created the industry in the first place at the cost of local/family musicians. The next iteration of technology made them obsolete. Recording execs are like telephone switchboard operators - one wave of technology created the role, the next wave destroys it. They're just trying to manipulate the law to defy the reality of technology ... why should this be different than any other industry since the start of the industrial revolution? (oh right, nobody's "profiting" off this change - can't allow anything to happen that doesn't make the rich richer, can we?).

  23. If you're going to be pedantic... by Aurisor · · Score: 1

    ...at least be correct.

    Somehow the fact that you refer to pirated music as "warez" makes me somewhat skeptical that you have ever actually done so. Warez is the term for cracked software, not music.

    Warez refers to pirated goods. I'll grant you that it primarily connotes pirated software (with or without cracks applied or included) but the term is absolutely used to refer to pirated music. I can give you references if you like, but 5 minutes with Google should make it pretty apparent.

  24. Superimprose by wpiman · · Score: 1

    I would love to see this graphic superimposed on one for video games. I imagine kids today are spending far more for their media on their Wiis, Xboxes, PS3s, PCes, PSP, DSes, and other gaming systems than they did on Nintendo DS cartridges and Quake in 1999. They are probably also running up their cell phone bills. The dollars probably just migrated.

    1. Re:Superimprose by Gromgull · · Score: 1

      The guardian brought this up:

      Are downloads really killing the music industry? Or is it something else?

      Although CD sales are plummeting, DVD and games sales are way up, making the entertainment industry as a whole increase it's earnings.

      --
      -- .
  25. Correlation isn't causality by wonkavader · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'd like to know what titles people were buying as CDs in 1999. New stuff or old?

    Could it be that people were replacing their vinyl in 1999 and before, and that the whole peak in 1999 was really an effect of replacing one version of something with another? I'm not saying that the decline isn't real, I'm suggesting that the curve is much less than it seems and the peak is artificially high.

    1. Re:Correlation isn't causality by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      ... the whole peak in 1999 was really an effect of replacing one version of something with another?

      Bingo!

      The replacement phenomenon is real. The only problem is that the RIAA was late to jump on the new distribution medium which followed the CD (due to bone-headedness and internecine warfare) and they are now paying the price. The fact that this new distribution medium was also substantially "leakier" than the last one is just icing on the cake.

      --
      That is all.
  26. Let's be honest with ourselves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A little bit of common sense is in order for this topic. A lot of people seem to be on the right track, though.

    The main consumers of new music tend to be people younger than 30. The average person in that age range, for the most part, grew up with the internet in their home. Napster alone is 10 years old, and how many million people were using that? MP3's were around and traded long before that, too. I myself am a youngin' compared to a lot here on /. and I remember trading .wav files for music swapping before mp3's were the norm.

    Let's face it. No one can reasonably believe that the record industry couldn't come up with something better for distribution in the 10 years since Napster. Consumers have become disillusioned and know they're being taken for a ride every time they buy a CD. I have a hard time justifying even walking into a record store, unless it's privately owned. If it's a chain, I laugh at the older people inside as I walk by.

    The radio is being programmed by computers based on how much radio advertising dollars can be generated. There is NO variety in the music whatsoever on terrestrial radio, and you'd know it too if you could catch a few songs back to back. But... when's the last time that's happened?
    I haven't been able to go 15 minutes on any given station without hearing 5 minutes of commercials. They even have commercials promoting the station you're already listening to. And, to top it off, some of those commercials advertise how few advertisements the station has as compared to the other station in your town that plays the same songs and to complete the cycle of absurdity, you can bet your ass both stations are owned by the same company... Clear Channel. The people who still listen to terrestrial radio do so only when there is no other option. It's the musical equivalent of public transportation.

    It's their own fault no one wants to buy a CD to listen to the same garbage they hear every 30 minutes on the radio, too. Who the hell wants to hear the same garbage on CD's, that they're forced to listen to already on the radio. Nothx.

    Americans lost the right to choose what they listen to years ago. The internet is giving it back to them. It seems only natural that this would happen to the recording industry. But hey... the recording industry made a SHITLOAD of money, right?
    What I can't figure out is how can they still feel sorry for themselves, and how can they expect consumers to feel sorry for them?

    1. Re:Let's be honest with ourselves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the musical equivalent of public transportation.

      Off-topic, but... You're clearly an American. In Europe, Japan, and probably many other parts of the world, there is actually public transportation that's not a joke and oftentimes even a faster and cheaper way of getting from point A to point B than the almighty car that you Americans are so obsessed with.

    2. Re:Let's be honest with ourselves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can...

      Hop on a bus and ride it with junkies, thugs, welfare cases with too many kids, and/or the mentally disturbed.
      I'd smell stale urine the entire ride, and the ride itself would take 3 to 4 times as long (provided I only have 1 stop to make) and drop me off somewhere in the vicinity of where I want to be.

      Or I can...

      Get in my car, make as many stops off as I want, and ultimately arrive exactly where I want to be.

      Seems like a no-brainer.

    3. Re:Let's be honest with ourselves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Americans lost the right to choose what they listen to years ago. The internet is giving it back to them.

      You appear to have written "right" when you meant "ability" or perhaps "power".

    4. Re:Let's be honest with ourselves... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Americans lost the right to choose what they listen to years ago. The internet is giving it back to them.

      You appear to have written "right" when you meant "ability" or perhaps "power".

      You are correct. One of these I'll actually proofread my AC posts...

  27. Typical tyrannical rule by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    If the so-called artist quit writing absolute sh*t, people might buy it. The industry was predicated on the fact that people were willing to pay a lot of money for 11 songs they didn't want to get the one song they did. Therefore there was little incentive for the industry and the artists to make higher quality product instead of quantity. The advent of the MP3 took control away from the executives and lawyers and put it back into the consumers hands. And IMHO far too many musicians started to think they were the cat's t*ts because they sold a ton of albums. Wrong. They really sold about one twelfth.

  28. You think like a ReThuglican Jew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You think like a ReThuglican Jew

    1. Re:You think like a ReThuglican Jew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You write like a half witted dickhead.

      See what I did there?

    2. Re:You think like a ReThuglican Jew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger kike JEW kike JEW!!!1

      hahaha see whut i did thar

  29. You Only Rip Me Off Once by Nightspirit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I bought the first Velvet Revolver CD, which installed a rootkit on the computer to prevent you from doing anything other than listening to some shitty WMA files. After that I swore I would never buy a CD again, and I haven't. You only screw me once. So until we have no DRM and a perpetual license (buy the music once, have the rights to any format) I'm done playing their game.

    1. Re:You Only Rip Me Off Once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Right. But i bet you're not done listening to their music. As other posters above have pointed out, using the "I don't like their sales methods/restrictions and until they give me what i want i'm going to infringe their copyrights" is a pretty self-serving argument.

      Walk the walk, if you're going to talk the revolutionary talk.

    2. Re:You Only Rip Me Off Once by Nightspirit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I refuse to give up culture just because it is a one-sided deal.

    3. Re:You Only Rip Me Off Once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      LOL! Nice excuse to justify your cheap ass practices. You're a joke of a human being.

    4. Re:You Only Rip Me Off Once by Nightspirit · · Score: 1

      Thanks RIAA.

    5. Re:You Only Rip Me Off Once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Done. iTunes, Rhapsody, amazon.com, and lots of others offer non-DRM, perpetual license, format changeable downloads. If you want to pirate music that's up to you but don't blame it on Sony DRM insanity.

    6. Re:You Only Rip Me Off Once by SavTM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right. But i bet you're not done listening to their music. As other posters above have pointed out, using the "I don't like their sales methods/restrictions and until they give me what i want i'm going to infringe their copyrights" is a pretty self-serving argument.

      Except that *they* don't actually own all the music anymore. Small and independent labels have a larger share of the pie. You can still see live performances, listen to the radio and experience the music while following a set of personal restrictions specifically designed to deny revenue and profit to the segments of the industry you don't like. You know, "Walk the walk," like you say.

      The problem with the record industry, from my perspective, is that even after I've walked the walk for over a decade, they're still not bankrupt and they still haven't corrected or repudiated their methods. They still believe their best customers are criminals, they still believe locking the schlock they shill up in a hermetically-sealed DRM container will protect the profit-value of their investment. Sure they miss the dollars I spend on other things now, but they are so incompetent that they've invented metrics to rationalize my (and other music lover's) absence from their marketplace. It's a sad state of affairs.

      Most artists recognize that myspace and twitter can do for free what used to require a record contract and thousands of dollars in contract debt to produce. Frankly, I think most music fans are ready to embrace building the *new* industry after the current hegemony has been Rasputin'd. Right now, the large labels are just holding back the smaller labels that aren't completely out-of-touch with their audience. That's JMHO, though.

    7. Re:You Only Rip Me Off Once by jipn4 · · Score: 1

      Breaking copyright in response to a computer intrusion seems like a proportional response to me.

      Of course, I have just stopped buying from major labels altogether. I have all the classics I care about legally purchased already (many converted from CD), and I can't remember the last time a major label had anything I want.

    8. Re:You Only Rip Me Off Once by MrWim · · Score: 1
  30. What do you get for the music fan who has it all? by Aurisor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think a lot of the discussion around this issue ignores the fundamental fact that most of the activity in the music industry for the past twenty years has been due to the need for the music-consuming public to 'catch up' on the music that has been produced in the last 500 years or so. The industry went out of its way to force us to re-acquire this back catalog first on tape (replacing vinyl) and then cd (replacing tape). The bottom line is that the actual amount of salable new music produced each year is tiny compared to the amount of new material being produced.

    I view the late 90s as an enormous aberration in history. The back catalogs of western music were basically thrown open to the public and there was just this frenzy of buying as well as looting (piracy). Now the cat is largely out of the bag, and the industry (in whatever form it survives) will have to get back to reality and balance its expenditures with whatever it actually is producing. Unfortunately for them, without some massive disruption in continuity of digital information, they will never have an opportunity to re-sell that many hundred years of human labor again.

    (The previous two paragraphs are based on conjecture, anecdotes, and my own reasoning. I think my conclusions are fairly pedestrian, but if anyone has any statistics or studies as to the revenue generated by back catalog, I'd be interested to see them.)

  31. "hot" mixed music sounds like crap by Gothmolly · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryId/247/Over-the-Limit.aspx

    RTFA, its a long one but a good one. Why do you think that the music on radio fails to hold your attention, or fails to impress?

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  32. Music snobs unite! by webdog314 · · Score: 1

    Wow, I can't believe the number of replies from people who either think that "music" is only a live band, or that everything that people listen to from the iTunes Store these days sucks in both quality and content. What a load of crap.

    The "music industry" is whatever people currently feel inclined to listen to. If Hanna Montana is all the rage, then who the frak are you to argue? I don't like her stuff, but who cares?! I don't think I like a single currently "popular" band out there, and I'm not even that old.

    It's always been about marketing. As a kid, I used to listen to the radio to find new artists. It was either that or word of mouth peer pressure. (If you want to be in our clique, then you must like band X.) But times have changed. I can sample stuff all over the place. I can pick up a card at Starbucks and download a free digital track, or listen to streamed Pandora "radio" on the internet. Sure, I could go pirate stuff, but people don't just pirate gigs and gigs or random musical shit (well, okay... some morons do), they pick the bands they have heard about or sampled.

    The music "industry" isn't dying. It's DEAD... and buried. It's just that nobody who has any real push has figured this out yet, or what to do about it. Radio is a waste of time, and beyond sites like Spotify, it's all word of mouth now. Which, frankly, is too damn slow and tedious.

    There is no shortage of "music" or musicians. And thanks to the ability for nearly anyone to create studio quality recordings, there's even no shortage of actual material. But people want to be told what's "hot". It's American Bandstand, only there's no one at the helm.

  33. It's about time by Baldrson · · Score: 1

    There hasn't been anything remotely original put out by the music "industry" since 1971.

  34. What happened t that Fat Tail? by hemp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    80 percent of all revenue came from about 52,000 songs. That's less than one percent of the songs.

    So much for the internets "fat tail".

    I am predicting that the book industry will soon find itself in the same boat as devices like the Kindle become more.

    --
    Skip ------ See the latest from http://www.anArchyFortWorth.com
  35. Decimated by cgenman · · Score: 1, Troll

    "Since music sales peaked in 1999, the value of those sales, after adjusting for inflation, has dropped by more than half. At that rate, the industry could be decimated before Madonna's 60th birthday.

    [pedantic brat] Actually, if it were decimated, it would only be dropped by 10%. It's a special Roman punishment for one's own armies whereby the general killed one out of every ten men (or 10%). This can be highly motivating, and was a much feared punishment, generally reserved for Mutiny.

    [/pedantic brat]

    1. Re:Decimated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the *Romans* used the word to mean "reduce by 10%". The English word derived from descriptions of that Roman practice means what most people think it means: catastrophic reduction. The etymology of a word is not the same as its definition, and pedantic "corrections" regarding this particular one happen to be high on my personal list of pet peeves.

      Any internet search should quickly find you dictionaries opining on this topic, as well as most dictionaries including at least one definition (often the first) meaning "reduce by a large amount". There are various caveats, but the blanket claim that it "means" or "should mean" only a 10% reduction is not generally supported. See http://www.thefreedictionary.com/decimate or http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/decimate.

    2. Re:Decimated by RobVB · · Score: 1

      You're the second person to point that out, and the second person not to see that the word could be used as a metaphor.

      --
      I'd rather you rationally disagree than irrationally agree.
  36. Homemade music is best by FranTaylor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My wife can bang out old Beatles classics on her guitar all day, and it cheers me up a thousand times more than any of the crap on the radio or the Internet.

    Sometimes I suggest a song to her that she doesn't know. She takes this as a challenge, learns the song, and then serenades me with it.

    Life is good.

    1. Re:Homemade music is best by mano.m · · Score: 2, Funny

      It won't seem so special once wives are downloadable.

      --
      Karma fed to this user will be promptly burnt. Be warned; be wary.
    2. Re:Homemade music is best by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... it cheers me up...

      Yeah, right... You just get off on the lesbian frission when she sings "When I Saw Her Standing There".

      --
      That is all.
    3. Re:Homemade music is best by supersloshy · · Score: 1

      Have her do Through The Fire and Flames, that's sure to be a challenge ;).

      --
      "Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen
    4. Re:Homemade music is best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, your wife, she bangs, she bangs? Fascinating!

  37. re: hype kiddie s--- Si ! by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

    I agree with "hyperproduced kiddie s--- artists" as an audience exploitation and fatigue factor.

    I remember when my daughter was 7 or 8, D: "Brit-Neee!" (infatuation) A few years later I asked her what happened to her infatuation with BS. D: "britney" (flat, ugh).

  38. Re:(S)he who sings by the sword, falls by the swor by Amiga+Trombone · · Score: 1

    True enough - creating a profit from recorded performances is mostly an artifact of the 20th century. In the early days of the recording industry the artists didn't even get royalties from sales - they were paid a performance fee for the recording session, and that was it. Millionaire actors and musicians are a recent peculiarity, it's not a divine right.

  39. no shift by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is my take on the music industry. In the middle of every decade there has been a "musical shift" (not always exactly in the middle, but there was a shift around this time). Mid 50s - Rock & Roll. Mid 60's - British invasion, Motown, Psychedelic. Mid 70's - Album Rock, Punk, Disco, Funk. Mid 80's - New Wave, Metal, Rap. Mid 90s - Alternative, Hip Hop. I'm sure I'm missing a few. Each of these brought excitement, brand new fans, new sounds, etc. Mid 2000s - NOTHING.

  40. chemlab.org by DrugCheese · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I listen to music the RIAA does not own, but they'll still shut them down because they think it's infringing on their bottom line.

    --
    *DrugCheese rants*
  41. we're done here by opencity · · Score: 1

    I made the last few records I wanted to on my home protools with a little bit of cash to do really loud stuff in a room. Payed some cash to mix with a friend in his true room with a couple of speaker sets. Made some money selling disks at gigs, kept all the money ... profit! This is a great time to be a 21 year old in a rock (are they still calling it that?) band. There's no money, but there's no money anywhere in 2009, and you can sit around, make music, play music and get paid.

    20th century media belongs to the past. That mechanism had died artistically a while ago. Around the time of the Paris Hilton sex tape it was all over. So all you lawyers get different jobs, all you audio engineers buy your own gear and make art.

    --
    Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
  42. Lawyers own the Music Industry by freedom_india · · Score: 1

    . which is why the music industry still has its head high in its asses by cutting the stores & outlets from where they can peddle their wares, and owned by RIAA completely
    EMI, Sony and others should sit down and asses how much of their income went to lawyers and the RoR on their investment in RIAA.
    Once they learn the true picture, they will abandon RIAA and consider creating music rather than creating lawsuits...
    But then EMI is a leader in restricting and refusing to serve customers...so its a matter of time..

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  43. Resurgence for FM Radio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I read in a few of the comments posted here that many of the users here believe that this bodes ill for FM Radio. As someone that was just recently laid off from the interactive portion of a large radio broadcaster here in the states, I can tell you the only thing that will kill FM radio is FM radio.

    What I mean by that is that the broadcasters themselves, like the rest of the music industry, have largely been highly resistant to change. Be it the embracing of interactive advertising, or even recognizing that they now have a lot more competitors than just the other radio stations across the street (Hi Internet Radio!!).

    The way I see it, this is an amazing opportunity for music in-general to become much more highly diversified and with more emphasis on bands being local/regional sensations rather than the end-goal of national/international sensations (although that possibility will always be there). Anyway, local FM radio stations could very well be positioned to be the thought/taste leaders when it comes to which local/regional bands become "big." A hearkening back to the hay-day Program Directors and DJs had in the 80s where they pretty much ruled the roost in radio stations and had much more weight in determining which bands became popular. It would allow each radio station to become a sort of... mini-label in and of itself.

    However, FM radio has been moving away from local largely due to Clear Channel and its crowd-sourcing, cost-cutting efforts of sharing content across stations/regions. But perhaps with how the economy has been kicking CC's butt, this trend could change. But it will take time, and it will take some of the larger broadcasters taking a risk. Will it happen, I don't know. But the opportunity I think definitely exists.

  44. we're talking about business models by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    streaming music on the internet IS radio, in terms of beaming out channels with advertising support. the only difference between streaming music and radio is streaming music has a billion more channels. that's the only difference

    you seem to be confused, that taste in music has absolutely anything to do with this. in fact, there seem to be a lot of people who seem confused here, that the death of the music industry will kill pop music and result in some sort of nirvana of quality. on the contrary: there are plenty of gems that never get pop air play, but there's also a much vaster sea of mediocrity out there that doesn't get airplay deservedly so: it sucks. you may say all pop music is crap. yes, there are pop music that derivative and empty, but also plenty that is quite good, according to any objective measure of originality, nevermind all the subjectiveness that obviously comes into play which ultimately renders all such comparisons pointless

    which gets us to the larger point: there seems to be a lot of people who derive pride in being counter culture. that they don't listen to pop. this, 20 years after alternative music has become just another category the music industry markets and caters to. no, it is more the truth that anyone who needs to feel better than other people has a character weakness, and a truly well-balanced person likes what they like and doesn't really care or feel a need to feel better than anyone else simply because of that

    a poser: i am better than you for arbitrary unsubstantial reasons and i feel a strong insecure need to feel better than other people... which, in a way, makes me even worse than the average secure pop listening person

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  45. Not streaming: missing option by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Funny

    The graph is indeed pretty illustrative, but to suggest the CD is being killed off by streaming is misleading, because they don't graph the main competitor to the CD.

    That's right, the minidisc.

    1. Re:Not streaming: missing option by __aarzwb9394 · · Score: 1
      I always think it's funny how people think of minidisc as a failure.

      It dodn't sell particularly well in North America or Europe. But you probably aren't aware of how fabulously successful it was in Japan/Korea.

      Sony certainly didn't lose money on it. You could fit a portable player in a normal sized pocket, and put spare discs in the same pocket. You could double the capacity by sacrificing sound quality. And of course it was recordable. All in all, much better than owning both a portable cd player and tape player.

      A very good product, expecially for "taping" your friends' cds. And everyone reading this knows that taping your friends' music is what turns you into a high hundreds/low thousands album buyer.

    2. Re:Not streaming: missing option by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      I always think it's funny how people think of minidisc as a failure.

      It dodn't sell particularly well in North America or Europe. But you probably aren't aware of how fabulously successful it was in Japan/Korea.

      I am actually aware of that, having lived in japan for a few months. But it obviously isn't a real factor in the downturn of CD sales.

  46. Music Industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Welcome to the information revolution, consumers found out about BETTER music which isn't on major labels and are LISTENING TO IT instead of your compressed pop garbage. Real music is not made loud so it can sound good on the shitty FM radio stations WHICH NO ONE LISTENS TO ANYMORE because FM PLAYS NOTHING BUT GARBAGE COMPRESSED CRAP!

    MTV IS DEAD, they play reality tv shows now, FM has nothing but spanish latino tax dollar funded welfare dance radio AND MP3 IS CRAP TOO!

    1. Re:Music Industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I find sadly ironic is the fact that Microsoft and MTV's music store URGE had decent to excellent commentary on a wide range of bands. Even new groups that were debuting and had their albums up for less than a week.

      However, I might be biased; they did not lump metal as a subgenre of rock like every other music store does. (Yes, metal evolved from rock, but it would be like stating that rock is a subgenre of jazz because it evolved from there.)

      C'mon MS... merge PlaysForSure, Zune Marketplace, and the Spotify-like store, and get MTV's guys to write reviews again.

  47. Evolution - don't fight it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The supply/demand model of the capitalist market promotes a natural evolutionary path for all industries.
    I imagine the horse and cart makers had similar comments about their industry in years gone by.

    If people want commercial music, they'll eventually pay for it otherwise it will die out as being no longer of sufficient utility.
    Put simply, if the music industry becomes unprofitable, then it is because it is supplying a service that consumers no longer desire at that price point, and we shouldn't be concerned by that!

  48. Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The records labels screw EVERYONE over, including themselves. If this wasn't the case, why do SO many artists start their own labels or fight long legal battles to get out of the constricting contracts they signed when young?

    Why has the music industry not leapt on digital distribution from the beginning? They could have totally controlled the market by just creating iTunes before iTunes.

    But they don't because the music industry is NOT about promoting artists or giving customers the best value for their money. it is about making the maximum amount of money for the least amount of work. Now you might call that sensible business, but it isn't.

    McD sells you mayo for your fries as an extra, that is sensible. Selling you the salt as extra isn't and would just turn customers away.

    The music industry would wish that you had to buy a CD for your stereo, a seperate MP3 for your portable, another CD for your car, a ringtone for your phone and then also pay them a fee for any blank CD's, hard-disks and media players you buy. That has nothing to do with promiting music anymore, that is pure and simple greed and comes bloody close to strip-mining the industry. Getting the last money out before it all collapses.

    Record labels support the artists. My god man, read a book, just once.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      McD sells you mayo for your fries as an extra, that is sensible. Selling you the salt as extra isn't and would just turn customers away.

      Any kind of mayo for my fries would turn me away, but fortunately here in the U.S. of A they give us ketchup for our fries for free.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    2. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by easyTree · · Score: 1

      As you can see from this lyrical snippet from Frank Zappa's Joe's Garage / Outside Now, he got along well with his record company:

      These executives have plooked the fuck out of me
      And there's still a long time to go before I've
      Paid my debt to society
      And all I ever really wanted to do was
      Play the guitar 'n bend the string like
      Reent-toont-teent-toont-teent-toont-teenooneenoonee

      I've got it
      I'll be sullen and withdrawn
      I'll dwindle off into the twilight realm
      Of my own secret thoughts
      I'll lay on my back here 'til dawn
      In a semi-catatonic state
      And dream of guitar notes
      That would irritate
      An executive kinda guy . . .

      Well, I guess that one did the trick
      If they only coulda heard it
      Half-a-dozen of 'em woulda strangled
      While they was suckin' on each other's dick
      But that was only a bunch of imaginary
      Notes I played
      Just a little extra somethin'
      To keep me goin' from day to day
      That's okay
      I'll be gettin' outta here pretty soon
      Then I won't have to live
      In this ugly fuckin' room
      Can't wait to see
      I can't wait to see what it's like
      On the outside now . . .
      Can't wait to see
      I can't wait to see what it's like
      On the outside now . . .
      Can't wait to see
      I can't wait to see what it's like
      On the outside now . . .
      Can't wait to see
      I can't wait to see what it's like
      On the outside now . . .
      Can't wait to see
      I can't wait to see what it's like
      On the outside now . . .
      Can't wait to see
      I can't wait to see what it's like
      On the outside now . . .
      Can't wait to see
      I can't wait to see what it's like
      On the outside now . . .
      Can't wait to see
      I can't wait to see what it's like
      On the outside now . . .
      Can't wait to see
      I can't wait to see what it's like
      On the outside now . . .
      Outside now . . .

    3. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by easyTree · · Score: 1

      PS. This is fair use so plz back-off in advance, kthx :P

    4. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by D'Sphitz · · Score: 1

      About a 50/50 mix of mayo and catchup with a dash of mustard, then covered in a thick layer of salt makes the perfect french fry dip. But i'm on a diet, damn my diet...

    5. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Wha? Screw that.

      My friend, what you need is Mayo + Ketchup + fresh diced onions. Preferably with cheese somewhere under there...

      *drools*

    6. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As always Slashdot users provide some nice recipes in the middle of serious discussion. Thanks guys, that made my day!

    7. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by ppanon · · Score: 1

      As you can see from this lyrical snippet from Frank Zappa's Joe's Garage / Outside Now, he got along well with his record company:

      There's also Pink Floyd's Have a cigar.
      "And did we tell you the name of the game, boy?
      We call it Riding the Gravy Train."

      --
      Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
    8. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by aaandre · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      And, similarly, the banking and money-printing/regulation industry has it's hooks into every transaction. Movement of money costs so much it's turning generations into slaves, working and working and working in order to increase the numbers into someone's account. Money is virtual and can grow infinitely. We are busy converting our lives and our planet into virtual numbers.

      "Monetizing" everything, growing the numbers in the accounts, depleting our relationships, our environment, our lives.

    9. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by easyTree · · Score: 1

      The link was broken so... Have a cigar

    10. Re:Wow, so that is what delusion looks like by True+Grit · · Score: 1

      Record labels support the artists.

      You must not be a "Southern Rock" music fan, otherwise you'd have heard the song "Working For MCA" by Lynyrd Skynyrd...

  49. For those wondering about music promotion by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Interesting

    LISTEN to a top 1000 and wonder about the many 1 time hits. Some of them were of course produced but a lot of them just happened by chance. Someone heard it, played it for some friends and it spread. Music promotion is overrated for a lot of artists, because either they never get it in the first place OR their big hit happens from word of mouth while they pay the record label for all the publicity that didn't work. Oh, you thought the record labels payed for promotion? How silly of you.

    The record labels do a LOT less then a lot of people seem to think and still the best way to promote yourself is just to send your CD to every radio station and offer to perform live whenever you can to hope enough people hear your music to spread your music. And you do NOT need a billion dollar industry coming up with endless schemes to drive customers away to do that.

    In fact, an old dutch project "One day fly" showed that you do not need the music industry at all to create a hit. A radio presenter and some friends made a crappy song, promoted it heavily on radio (themselves) and voila, instant hit. You need people who can play your music to others to get noticed. The record labels do precious little more then buy you some airtime and that only for the big sure fire hits.

    Oh and for the small artists, all that promotion you end up paying yourself for, so that even when you score a big hit, most of the profits will be sucked up by the record label.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:For those wondering about music promotion by domatic · · Score: 1

      At least in the US, payola has put an end to that method of self promotion and it has been the case since at least the early eighties. Even the FMs that aren't ClearChannel will only play one of RIAA promoted Country, Adult Contempory, Classic Rock, or Oldies. This is kinda sad. They even mess up promoting their own stuff. In the Seventies and Eighties, we kids used to be glued to Kasey Kasem's Top 40. It was fun to see if your current favorite would hit #1 and of course you caught all the new cool stuff coming up. Find cool new stuff on the radio now is just laughable.

  50. music 'industry' by neonsignal · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's like saying of the illuminated book 'industry' in 1499 that "the latest culprit accelerating the undoing of the reading business is free, legal printing presses".

    The measure of an industry is not the size of its profits (except in the minds of those mythical entities called corporations). It is the extent to which it affects people's lives. I could argue that the recording industry actually diminished the social culture of music, because it meant people could listen to music without interacting with the performer. On the other hand, it did allow more people to enjoy music by the most gifted performers. As does radio. As does the internet.

  51. Wait a minute. by Yeechang+Lee · · Score: 1

    Isn't Madonna already 60?

      . . . No way. Wow. You're kidding, right?!?

  52. Streaming by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

    Why the hell would I want to:

    - use bandwidth every time I want to listen to something

    - place my music 'collection' in the hands of a third party who can pull the plug whenever they see fit/go bust

    - allow a third party to track what I listen to without my consent

    - be depdendent on a functioning net connection for my music

    I much prefer to have my music safely on my local computer in unencrypted, DRM-less form, thanks.

    --
    Read Pynchon.
    1. Re:Streaming by jesset77 · · Score: 1

      Offline is still a valuable destination for much data, says I. I am rather annoyed by how lazy many people are that they feel they cannot manage their own data, need the cloud to handle every piece of minutiae.

      We should embrace the diversity of being able to store or access content online (Spotify, Hulu, Youtube) and being able to locally archive said content in case the original, ameture work gets a DMCA takedown notice for being too popular and independent .. or just for when you leave the coverage area (DownloadHelper, XBMC, Ipod)

      --
      People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
  53. I concur by spineboy · · Score: 1

    All the stuff on Dischord (Fugazi et al) sounds F'in great, and their setup cost no where near that, unless you count their group home.
    Besides, a good song is a goos song, even if it's a little scratchy, most people will listen to it.

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
  54. What's killing the music industry? by rnturn · · Score: 1

    Their fixation on only promoting the latest musucians and music. Found any older music in the stores lately? I doubt it. And I'm talking about CDs from an artist released perhaps a year or two ago. More and more one walks into a Borders or Best Buy (or whoever) -- both of which used to have good and sometimes great selections from most artists catalogs -- and find virtually nothing. Nowdays, it's only the latest CD or two from an artist. Anything older than that and you're lucky to find it at all. Some artists's older music can only be found on compilations, greatest hits CDs, or, lately, remastered versions of older CDs (at a higher price, or course). It's truly pathetic. Customers wanting to find anything from a band's back catalog are just out of luck. (Unless you're lucky enough to find a band that sells their older releases on the band's own web site.) Mom and Pop and Indie music stores that used to cater to the real music fans have all gone out of business. Folks that want to buy actual, physical CDs are just being ignored.

    Call me old fashioned but I have no real desire to entrust my music collection to being a nothing but a bunch of bits on a hard disk. How many music customers out there already have lost their entire music collections to a failed hard drive or MP3 player or a decision by some company to cease authenticating DRM-encumbered songs. (Or someone who has a music collection they amassed while they were a Windows user but have switched to Linux?) I'm looking for honest-to-goodness CDs dammit and not a download that can be lost due to an freak power failure crashing a hard drive.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    1. Re:What's killing the music industry? by domatic · · Score: 1

      That is what backups are for and even multiple backups can be kept cheaply. My entire music collection exists on two backup drives and multiple players and PCs some of which aren't in the same physical location. If anything, my collection is safer than CDs that can fall prey to either thieves or various environmental factors. As for formats, everything that was ripped from my own CDs was encoded with LAME with alt-preset-extreme and once storage sizes iterate a couple more times. I may re-rip to flac at some point but mp3s can sound good if you don't mind them getting a little big and use decent software to encode and play them back. Sure AAC or even Vorbis sound just as good with smaller filesizes but even taking pocket portable players into account, my filesizes being 20% larger or so just isn't a factor. My collection being playable anywhere on anything is more important than the slight benefits offered by spiffy new codecs and formats.

      I'll also note that I recently redid all the tags on my mp3s as ID3v2.3 which allows for maximum compatibility of metadata including lyrics and artwork across different hardware players and software on different operating systems.

  55. I have cash to burn by aepervius · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have cash to burn, but I am definitively too old. The stuff which they put out for sale, DO NOT interest me. What I like is stuff like electrical music vangelis/Jean michel Jarre , classic from funeral march for a marionette to tocatta in c minor, and a few rock/hard rock group and strange stuff (queen, megadeth, smashing pumpkins, and a few other less known ; commercial stuff like e-nomine, and a few other like in-extremo). For the first group, there isn't much which was put to sale recently and has got the quality of an oxygen, or heaven and hell. For the second group you can own so many version of them until nothing new comes out, for the third group, i search and search but rarely find stuff of interrest.

    So what bring us this long rambling on my taste ? I started buying a lot of CD end on 90. Then by 2002 it dwindled down. Because my classic collection was complete, and for electronic music I did not find anything new, except a few rare stuff coming from Japan (Idea/eufonius). Sure, I would wish to see much more new stuff, but my exposure (university) has dwindled only to friend and colleague. So now a day I try pirate stuff in hope of finding something to buy which please me , and I throw everything away after trying. The bottom line is that I buy no CD , not because of the crise, but because nothing cater to my taste.. Yeah my taste are eclectic.But hey nobody is perfect.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:I have cash to burn by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      You might find some interesting electronic music (of the old-school variety) at Synth Music Direct and their download store MusicZeit. I can recommend Frank van Bogaert if you're into Vangelis and Jarre, and Redshift if you enjoy '70s-era Tangerine Dream.

      --
      Squirrel!
    2. Re:I have cash to burn by ovu · · Score: 1

      There are more than 6 billion people alive today. You have not exhausted the musical possibilities. Maybe you could make a game of it by starting an independent record label, and searching out talented, unsigned acts, and then give them some business structure to help launch their careers?

    3. Re:I have cash to burn by Max+Romantschuk · · Score: 1

      My tastes are somewhat overlapping with yours.

      You can still find interesting new stuff. Personally I'm a Spotify convert these days, I've found lot's of new stuff that interests me. Of course finding new interesting music requires going through mountains of crap, but once you develop a playlist on Spotify (of existing music you know you like) you can pretty much start looking through the stuff it suggests.

      I'm sure there are other similar services in other markets too.

      A few suggestions, based on your liking of Jarre, classical music, and Queen:
        * Maksim â" ELECTRIK
        * Sigur Ros
        * Timo Maas

      But good stuff is still being done, it's just that the signal to noise ratio is awful. ;)

      --
      .: Max Romantschuk :: http://max.romantschuk.fi/
  56. Loud huh - go listen to My Bloody Valentine by spineboy · · Score: 1

    I've seen around 1000 bands or so play(punk, hardcore, deathmetal, noise), none came even close to the sonic bombardment of the MBV encore, except maybe Swans. Not Motorhead, not Godflesh, not Sunn O))) - I haven't seen KISS, so I can't compare.

    And yes I concur - the F'ing drummer always sets the volume of the band. They just can't seem to play fast, without playing really loud (and vise-versa)

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
    1. Re:Loud huh - go listen to My Bloody Valentine by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      And yes I concur - the F'ing drummer always sets the volume of the band. They just can't seem to play fast, without playing really loud (and vise-versa)

      The faster the tempo, the faster you have to move the sticks, and the faster you move the sticks, the harder they hit the drum.

      A good drummer can play softer, by altering their playing style. That may not be desirable.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    2. Re:Loud huh - go listen to My Bloody Valentine by jipn4 · · Score: 0

      And yes I concur - the F'ing drummer always sets the volume of the band. They just can't seem to play fast, without playing really loud (and vise-versa)

      Yup: basic physics.

    3. Re:Loud huh - go listen to My Bloody Valentine by mwvdlee · · Score: 1, Informative

      Nope; lack of skills.

      A drum stick isn't a boolean on/off device; you can choose to play at a whole range of loudness and if you want you can play less loud when playing faster.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  57. Actually, this might be an age thing by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    I do notice that some younger people actually prefer this "wall of sound"++ thing. they WANT their MUSIC TO BE IN ALL CAPS!

    I prefer my own music with more melody, it don't matter much for me wether that is clasical, jazz or heavy metal but I DO prefer the few heavy metal songs that are "classical" in nature. Few of the young people get what I mean, how can I like One by metallica but not most of their other crap? Because One is not a constant barrage of sound. It has a "story", lows and highs, movement. It tells me something rather then just pound the same beat for an eternity.

    So Louder is Better, for a certain audience.

    the real tragedy here is that by trying to maximize market share, the record industry is instead driving customers away.

    Both you, me and the writer of that article are old farts. This music has not been mastered for us.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  58. Inforgraphic needs some help... by MrWa · · Score: 1

    Hard to see TOTAL sales, across all mediums. I wonder how much is attributed to format change and if there is base volume of music sales that industry will settle at, now there isn't a new format for everyone to go buy (LP $ -> Cassette $ -> CD $ -> digital FREE).

  59. Who is RIAA real competition? by s52d · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If we assume average teenager has 100 Euros per month to spend ...

    20 years ago, they mainly spend it on music, beer and cigarettes.

    Today they spend it on mobile, internet, DVDs, computer games and some for music.
    There are so many options beside CDs.

    Music industry simply lost entertainment money share.

    Few years ago a pool was made in London: kids prefer to stop going out for beer in order to spend last pounds on their mobile phone.

  60. Bring back the valuable carrier, back to analogue by HetMes · · Score: 1

    Admittedly, I arrived just at the dawn of the CD, but even I can very well imagine gladly paying $XX more for and LP than for a CD, especially since I know and feel that the contents of the CD are the same as of the free digital copy, and that all CD's are exact copies of each other. Their is no added value of the carrier, and I think the music industry decided to forget this. Not only does the LP allow you to literally feel the music in the grooves, but since the carrier is analogue it will be perceived as unique and personal, even though the difference may not be noticeable at first. It's same sort of difference between a book and a pdf file. Same contents, VERY different feel. We still gladly pay quite a lot for a book, but would we pay even a fraction of that for a pdf file of said book? And after time, would you gladly exchange your book for a fresh copy, or keep 'your' copy, even though some pages may be smudged, corners folded? Also, the possibility to ship beautiful and detailed large print artwork with LP's is something that can easily add a couple of bucks to the product's perceived value. Regarding quality of playback, I think DJ turntables show that is not an issue, really.

  61. Re:Bring back the valuable carrier, back to analog by HetMes · · Score: 1

    (continuing) Also, the music industry can then simply give out digital copies for free listening online from their website, but they will be perceived as the poor man's music source, like reading books in the library.

  62. Nazi reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Getting the last money out before it all collapses.

    Exactly like the Nazis before the end of WWII.. *Exactly* like them.

  63. Buy by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    Buy,Buy,Buy My new record Buy,Buy,Buy Send more money Fuck you Buddy Fuck you Buddy

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re:Buy by cheros · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I think you've got a hit there (it's of about the same level of insightful comment as most other stuff I hear).

      Just sign here, thanks. :-)

      --
      Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
    2. Re:Buy by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      And I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever write a song about the Sibbie.

      --
      Squirrel!
  64. so so sad by Teque5 · · Score: 1

    If the new york times thinks that an infographic they need to hire some new design people; take a look at wired mag; or just browse the interwebs.

    --
    teque5.com
  65. Re:What do you get for the music fan who has it al by CSMatt · · Score: 2, Interesting

    (The previous two paragraphs are based on conjecture, anecdotes, and my own reasoning. I think my conclusions are fairly pedestrian, but if anyone has any statistics or studies as to the revenue generated by back catalog, I'd be interested to see them.)

    Likewise.

    When the CD was introduced, everyone who wanted the new format ended up having to upgrade their collections or continue to use their current LPs and casettes until they wore out. The CD was not recordable (and would not become recordable for another 8 years), so dubbing one's existing collection to CD was out of the question. Still, the promise of the new format was enough to finally kill off vinyl, as no doubt customers were sick of worn out records and eaten cassettes, and loved the idea of a format whose marketing promised a century of readability without analog degrading. The CD gobbles up vinyl's market first, then the cassette's after the introduction of anti-skip buffers. Eventually people's old collections are either worn out or become difficult to play due to inconvenience, and people start re-buying their old music on CD. Sales skyrocket, because the labels are not just selling their discs to new customers, but also to old customers who bought the same lineup of recordings years ago, and were replacing their recordings at a rate faster than the usual re-purchase due to destruction of the old medium.

    But the CD, being a digital format, had an advantage over the previous formats of vinyl and cassette. Because the tracks are digital, they can be extracted and easily transferred to another medium. The labels knew about the transfer of recordings from a CD to another medium, but anticipated the process would be in the form of a conventional dub using analog means, much like what the casette tape allowed. Hence, the CD did not have DRM, and no attempt was made during the specification process to prevent digital extraction. Once digital music started becoming the norm, the prediction was that customers would dub their tracks using S/PDIF to MD or DAT, or to the new CD recorders. So the labels lobbied for the AHRA and SCMS.

    Of course, what happened instead was that these new digital formats failed to gain traction, and a new more efficient method of digital transfer arose: the digital extraction of tracks to a hard drive using a computer. Unlike a dub, ripping did not require playback of the source medium. Despite the original rips of CDs taking a long time due to encoding and slow processors, the difficult task of ripping only had to be done once. Once done, the tracks can be copied to any writable medium with ease. If one wanted to copy a CD to another CD, a computer allowed for a verbatim copy from source to destination without the need for any dubbing. Suddenly, any future form of music storage, which would inevitably be some sort of digital file, could not be as successful as the CD. Even tape, which also had the ability to record from another source, would inevitably have made more money from back catalog updating due to the tediousness of dubbing, as opposed to the straightforward process of ripping.

    Phillips and Sony outdid themselves with the CD, making it almost impossible to create a successor. Attempts to try (DVD-Audio and SACD) failed because their features catered only to a select few and due to low player and disc support. Digital distribution is successful because of the a la carte model of allowing the selection of individual tracks, and the convenience of having songs beamed directly to your hard drive, since a new CD would just end up there anyway. But it would be absurd to re-buy all of your music online if you already have a CD, as you can just get the track from your existing collection, leaving back catalog purchases to those who do not know about ripping.

    So to compare the revenues of labels from their peak in 1999 is absurd, as much of that revenue no doubt came from back catalog purchases. Instead it would make far more sense to compare it to revenues from before 1981, before the CD came out (adjusted for inflation of course).

  66. Can we also kill romantic view about music? by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    This bullshit about the music coming from the heart is nonsense.

    Some music may come from the heart, but most of it is just like anything else: a way to get the bills paid, a job that is undertaken for utilitarian purposes, and this includes most musicians you care to name.

    It is also perfectly legitimate to want to become rich by playing music, but is also legitimate to want to become rich making computer programs, websites or tinkering with hardware.

    What is not legitimate is to expect to become rich by doing nothing, which is what many people in the music industry (a perfectly adequate sentence, please drop the sentimental dross) come to believe was their birthright.

    Many people are decrying that they can now make a living only by performing! When people utter such musing you know how dettached from reality they have been, all courtesy of artificial and abusive copyright terms and restrictions.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  67. Oh please, give it a rest. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    The music industry is so discredited that they are compared unfavorably with other cartels (the Colombian drug ones for example) or other fine organizations like the Chicago mafia.

    Musicians had come forward to tell how they risk everything while music labels risk precious little, the onerous terms of their contracts have become the stuff of legend.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  68. Re: most starting bands are low on money... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    The question is ... do those "starting bands" have more money after the RIAA has finished with them? The answer is usually no - look how many number one bands have declared bankruptcy or just plain given up after a while once they figure out how screwed they are.

    --
    No sig today...
  69. I hope you get modded down. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 2, Informative

    Because people that do not learn from history, frankly deserve to be derided in any way possible.

    You said "he big label records AREN'T there to fuck everyone over."

    The reality:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2289224.stm

    http://archive.salon.com/tech/feature/2000/06/14/love/print.html

    So they screw both artists and consumers.

    And that is only for starters...

    Please, get real.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  70. Advertisement industry: another group of crooks. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Please, lets not go down there.

    Advertisement is expensive because the people working on that industry believe they are second tier artists, and actually aspire to live the same lifestyles of the rich and famous that they promote with their "services".

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  71. ...do you need big labels for quality? by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Um, most big labels will insist on turning the compressor to the max so if anything they're the ones who'll make it sound horrible.

    --
    No sig today...
  72. Recoupable by Darth+Cider · · Score: 3, Informative

    There's a general misunderstanding I see here anytime record companies are discussed. Time after time, people say that the label pays for all sorts of things to help artists. The truth is that all of that stuff isn't given to the artists, it's an advance on future royalties.

    The artist has to repay the label for the cost of recording an album. The labels charge artists for promotion, too. It's a universal practice to include a "breakage" fee, which means the artist only receives royalties on 90% of sales. Concert touring expenses are also recoupable, paid for by the artist. Royalties are calculated on wholesale prices, not retail prices, so deals with record clubs can be based on deeply discounted wholesale prices and lower royalties

    The industry is geared to produce a few smash hit artists. Those who aren't given preferential treatment are generally stuck with big debt to the label. If the label decides not to release an artist's music, the artist can't release it on his own - and this happens quite a lot. The label can insist that the artist remain under contract for 7 years or more, while never releasing any recordings, so the artist is essentially silenced

    There is no hope of getting a song on a commercial radio station without the influence of "independent promoters," who have a lock on what stations will play and only promote songs after receiving huge payments. Radio airtime has nothing to do with the merits of the music. No song gets played on commercial radio without a payment to an independent promoter

    Most people who have very strong opinions against the music industry have little idea of exactly how bad the industry is. It's a rotten and corrupt industry.

    Read what Janis Ian has to say. Read The Truth about the Music Industry."

    1. Re:Recoupable by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      There's a general misunderstanding I see here anytime record companies are discussed. Time after time, people say that the label pays for all sorts of things to help artists. The truth is that all of that stuff isn't given to the artists, it's an advance on future royalties.

      The artist has to repay the label for the cost of recording an album. The labels charge artists for promotion, too. It's a universal practice to include a "breakage" fee, which means the artist only receives royalties on 90% of sales. Concert touring expenses are also recoupable, paid for by the artist. Royalties are calculated on wholesale prices, not retail prices, so deals with record clubs can be based on deeply discounted wholesale prices and lower royalties

      I'd also add that the labels structure the "royalty advance" and subsequent charges to that advancement such that they band winds up in debt to the record label. After all is said and done, they OWE the record label money and need to release another CD to pay it back. Record labels (at least the major ones - don't mean to include indie labels in this) are a form of indentured servitude. See Steve Albini's The Problem With Music for more information as well as a chart breaking down how a $250,000 advance plus a quarter million CDs sold winds up being a $14,000 debt! http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  73. And they call themselves musicians? by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1, Informative

    A proper percussionist can play drums loud or soft, as required.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  74. Incentive by oakbox · · Score: 1

    William Shakespeare made between 6 and 10 pounds for each of his screenplays.

    --
    Not just answers, the correct questions.
  75. Buying is no longer the point by cyclomedia · · Score: 1

    The newish generation of music consumers doesn't give a rats ass about "owning" music at all, either physically or digitally. The advantage that net streaming is bringing over radio streaming is that the consumer can pick the playlist rather than have a payola funded DJ pick it for them - the similarity is that they're funded by ad interruptions. And when its free and you get to listen to whatever you want whenever you like what is the point of handing over cash so that you can have copies in your house so you can listen to whatever you want whenever you like?

    The days of turning off the lights for an uninterupted hour or three of a great intertwined albumn aren't over, as it was always the hardcore music lovers who would do that anyway (Orb Live '93 is my favourite....) but since the late 90s the casual music consumer really hasn't been that bothered about owning a music library and if us geeky folk at slashdot dont understand that then the RIAA execs have no chance of keeping up.



    Oh and In Utero is far superior to the overproduced shiney shiney radio friendly unit shifting Nevermind

    --
    If you don't risk failure you don't risk success.
  76. 100% agree - and the MPAA has added the rest by cheros · · Score: 1

    That's 100% right - I only occasionally buy a CD but there's so much less that's interesting. The other factor is that on the movie side they actively go out of their way to STOP me buying movies.

    When I'm travelling for work, I sometimes get bored. So I'd go and buy something. What can I not buy? Movies! They won't work when I'm home other than by using a player that bypasses the region limiting - in other words, I should stay home, or buy pirated stuff (which I don't do out of principle). Well, fine. So I can't buy exactly at the very time I would still have an incentive to get a DVD - at home it's all electronic.

    I can't quite work out if they're deliberately running their own industry down or that they are just plain dumb. Given the sheer dedication to doing absolutely stupid things I can only conclude it must be deliberate.

    Nobody is THAT stupid, no?

    --
    Insert .sig here. Send no money now. Owner may sue, contents will settle. Batteries not included.
  77. Re:What do you get for the music fan who has it al by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >with whatever it actually is producing

    And as soon you realize what that is, you'll know they won't be changing.

  78. Re:(S)he who sings by the sword, falls by the swor by jesset77 · · Score: 1

    oh right, nobody's "profiting" off this change - can't allow anything to happen that doesn't make the rich richer, can we?

    Not when decades of their propaganda have turned the public so effectively in favor of bits-as-commodity that Kim Jong Il even began taking notes.

    "You wouldn't steal a car.. would you?" Never in all my years have I heard such a good promotion for auto theft. ;P

    --
    People willing to trade their freedom of expression for temporary entertainment deserve neither and will lose both.
  79. The product sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    People are buying less music because the industry offers very little worth listening to. Seriously, have you heard any tunes recently you will find yourself humming along with ten or even two years from now?

    There are reasons why there are so many "golden oldie" stations. Songs used to have melodies and hooks and sometimes even virtuosity by the players. No more, or at least no more for the pablum that is played on the radio or shows up on MTV/VHS.

  80. Inefficient Industries need to Die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Inefficient Industries need to Die.

    Whether it is GM or the music propaganda industry. They need to make more of what we want and are willing to pay for, and less of what we don't want.

    If you can't make a profit, then those industries aren't doing anyone a favor.

    Seeing rap stars driving around in $500,000 cars wearing $150,000 chains makes me sick. I'd really like to see all that go towards helping others (or even something less flashy) and see those people become even more famous for helping less advantaged families.

  81. Labels have been ripping artists off for years by crovira · · Score: 1

    "And now besides the point, record labels aren't there just to rip people off. Artists actually need them. They actually find the artists that could be something, provide them studio time and sponsor them so they can get their job done, help making the music videos, doing promotion, making sure the actual product is somewhat quality (yeah, quality can be argued!) to actually delivering the products to retailers, tv and radio stations and whatever other places. Lots of times people forget that record labels do lots of other work too and sponsor the bands, and they're not there just to collect money forgefully."

    Man, what rock have you crawled out from under?

    The artists provide their own studio time, much to their dismay when the find that their 'advance' on record sales paid for all of the bills for the studio, the pressing/production, the promotion, the tour, the hiring of strangers, the transportation of said strangers and equipment, the catering to feed everybody.

    The artist have paid for all of that and suddenly find out that the labels do a lousy job when they are handed a bill instead of a check at the end of it.

    The music industry is a shameful sham. A&R is a just hunt for the next suckers.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  82. Good riddance! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I say good riddance. The music industry hasn't turned out good music in decades. I have bought two CD's for myself in the last 20 years. There is enough music already composed and performed to keep all of us listening to new songs every day for the rest of our lives! I say we pirate what is out there now, and let musicians be forced into finding truly productive work.

    The real problem is that we use too much of our copious spare time merely entertaining ourselves, and enriching the elitist, arrogant musicians who think they deserve all that $ for producing such garbage. Why don't we use more of our spare time to solve some of humanities real problems, instead of just distracting ourselves? We could have cleaned up every innner city slum, and cured cancer by now. (And while we're at it, keep the stupid TV off, too.)

  83. In other news... by 2obvious4u · · Score: 1

    since the ban of all digital music online this new infographic show a stead drop in CD sales due to people getting off their computers and turning on the Radio. In this forgotten medium people can tune to an FM or AM frequency and find streaming music in a genre they find appealing.

  84. check riaaradar.com before you buy by Dan667 · · Score: 1

    When you buy music, make sure to check http://riaaradar.com/ to see if the album is from a company that funds the RIAA. If they do, don't buy it and stick it to them a couple dollars of lost earnings at a time.

  85. If the music undustry was smart.. by jacks0n · · Score: 1

    They would 1. Stop targeting 13-18 year olds. 2. Produce more album oriented music 3. targeted at 30 year olds 4. who regard their time as more important than money.

  86. Hmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The graphs in TFA cite RIAA figures, with CD (full) sales peaking in 1999. Let us throw in a couple other dates, not mentioned in the article.

    Napster's peak was 2000-2001. Very small drop in sales there. Certainly nothing anywhere close to the cries heard from the RIAA before Napster was shut down.

    Compare to 2003 to present when iTunes has been around... big drop.

    TFA summary: (legal) downloadable singles is killing the music industry and the funeral will be sooner than you think.

    of the 13 million songs for sale online last year, 10 million never got a single buyer and 80 percent of all revenue came from about 52,000 songs. Thatâ(TM)s less than one percent of the songs.

    says it all.

    If 77% of products on the shelf at Wal-Mart never got any sales, those stores would be filled to the rafters with the other 23% that do generate the sales, with a heavy emphasis on that 1% that generates the bulk of sales, in no time flat.

  87. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  88. THE SLASHTARDIAN PHILOSPHY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let it die, its inefficient

    The product sucks, but we steal it anyway

    Data wants to be free

          These are the amazing in depth and complex arguments as to why this decline is necessary to the Slashtardian idiot. It sees no problem in obtaining the product of someone else's labor for free, then complain it sucks or they had problems "downloading" the shitty lossy compressed downloadable version and actually had to get up off their fat smelly pimply ass to go and get it.

          Lastly is the Utopian Delusion of Free, everything to all and may it be free.

          I agree, I'll be over to pick up your car, your house, your hardware software, all of it and even your wife given shes not as homily as you.

        So technically your Free argument not only applies to the validity of property ownership at the time of its creation but also post acquisition meaning, YOU DONT OWN A FUCKING THING.

    Knowning most of you tools voted for Obama and that was aided by the NYT, you should listen the fuck up because your industry of creating code is next and if you think Open Source is gonna save you, you are a fucking retard.

  89. You can't peddle shit and call it music by OrangeMonkey11 · · Score: 1

    The reason why music sales went down lately is due to the fact that listeners have gotten better taste and will no longer want to hand their hard earn money over for shit that make their ears bleed.

  90. lies, damn lies, and the liars to tell them. by DragonTHC · · Score: 1

    wasn't there just a story I read recently that the head of the UK's music indutry trade group reported profits for 2008?

    http://www.bpi.co.uk/press-area/news-amp3b-press-release/article/7th-january-2009-bpi-press-release-7c-uk-reports-resilient-music-sales-in-2008.aspx

    as far as I can see, someone here is lying. The music industry may be hurting for profit, but it's due to their own management's inability to shift their business model to a more profitable one to align with the changing market.

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
  91. do you know what website you're on? by dust4ngel · · Score: 1

    how do you find people to distribute it to? Word of mouth only goes so far, and advertising is expensive.

    do you recognize the irony in your nay-saying word-of-mouth, bottom-up, crowdsourced content evaluation on one of the most prominent collaborative blogs on the internet, and one of the most successful examples of the very model you are dismissing?

  92. Marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Marketing my friend... you still need them for marketing. Just like how you can make your own chili, but try packaging it, and getting them into grocery stores and people buying. Not easy. It's one thing to run a lemonade stand, and another thing entirely to sell your lemonade in every store across an entire country or planet.

  93. Thank you for the link by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

    requiring registration at the New York Times.

    Morons.

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    1. Re:Thank you for the link by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      So I go to register, forgetting that I already registered a couple years ago, so they tell me my email address is already used, and do I want to recover my password.

      So I then have to ENTER THE EMAIL ADDRESS THEY ALREADY FUCKING HAVE SHOWED ME THEY KNOW, and NOW WHAT - SYSTEM ERROR! They can't do it!

      Fucking, mindless, scum-sucking, fucked up, asshat, brain dead, stupid motherfucking Iraq war cheerleading pieces of SHIT!

      Do NOT EVER put another article on this site linking to the fucking shitheads at the New York Times!

      Fucking morons.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  94. Re:What do you get for the music fan who has it al by careysub · · Score: 1

    I view the late 90s as an enormous aberration in history. The back catalogs of western music were basically thrown open to the public and there was just this frenzy of buying...

    You've got it right. 1999 marks the peak of CD sales, and "big label" profit, and the "labels" have been trying to sell politicians and the public on the notion that this peak (which as you note is largely a back-catalog based windfall) is the "normal" financial state of the industry which must be restored (largely by legislation, certainly not innovation).

    This is not unusual behavior for an industry - did you know that the U.S. farm industry (nearly all agribusiness mega-corps now) considers the unusually favorable prices of 1910-1914 to represent "normal" pricing (it is termed "parity") and regularly seeks price supports to drive prices up to that level?

    An interesting side-note to the rapid adoption of CDs that I rarely see mentioned is that during the 1970s and 1980s the quality of manufactured LPs fell of a cliff. It became normal to buy a disk with gross defects.But with CDs, either the pressing was perfect or it didn't play at all. So the take over by CDs was partly due to the terrible quality of the LP product. It wasn't until the late 1990s that the "labels" found a way to ruin the quality of CDs - by volume compression. Was this also a factor in the decline of CD sales?

    --
    Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  95. the decline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lol it has nothing to do with free legal or any of that shit

    its all about there dont make shit worth downloading buying stealing or p2p what ever you want to call it any more

    why should we run to buy there junk if its not worth it

    most of the shit just like movies is recyled shit from years ago with a small twist

  96. The real problem with the music industry by jmorris42 · · Score: 1

    Ok, most of what they produce is crap. It has always been thus, Sturgeon's Law and all that. That isn't the problem.

    No, my problem is more basic. Assuming I found some new music I liked, how am I supposed to buy it? Buying a CD is a crap shoot. Since the CD format didn't include DRM they just hose the quality to try and stop you from extracting a digital copy. Bleh! Or you can buy a digital copy..... good luck finding FLAC or any other uncompressed format. Apparently the unadulterated CD of the 1980's and 1990's were the pinnacle of audio quality and it is all down hill from here?

    Offer me FLAC (or another uncompressed format that I can find a converter for) with at least 44.1kHz, 2 channels and I'll consider buying. If you really want my money how about an improvement over twenty year old tech, perhaps 48Khz, 20 or 24 bit samples and multi channel. Uncompressed is important because I stuff compressed music into things, recompression is bad. As tech improves the compressed versions will change in codec and quality. Rebuying every few years is not something I plan to start.

    --
    Democrat delenda est
  97. Already Sold by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All the good music has already been bought. The music industry is just recycling onto new media over and over. This leaves the Indie players producing new stuff. The big players alienated their buyer base to boot.

  98. Rot in hell RIAA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You want to know why I haven't bought music since 1989? It's simple - I'm tired of buying 'compilations' of the same songs that I already have, for insane prices. I've got a CD burner, I'll make my own mixes thanx... And I can get more than 15 songs on a CD (where there's 1 or 2 good ones, and 14 shit). Once MP3's hit the scene, who needed CD's? I have a hard drive and the ability to stream my own music to wherever I happen to be, when I want to listen to it...

    I haven't listened to ANY FM radio since about 1990... I hate commercials. Plain and simple. I refuse to listen to that never-ending stream of shit. So I'd program 3 or 4 decent stations into the radio. Commercial comes on - hit the button, back to music... Until CLEAR CHANNEL... then it was all commercials at the same time. That was when I turned off the radio. The only thing I listen to is the traffic reports on AM...

    My wife has XM - but I'm not paying for that shit in my car. I have all the music I want or need, so I shoved an ipod with a transmitter in my car... I listen to what I want, when I want to listen to it and there's absolutely, positively NO FUCKING COMMERCIALS...

    Fuck the RIAA and their price gouging for recycled music. Fuck the RIAA's teen artists with the fake voices... They should rot in hell. Fuck a bunch of assholes who can't update their business plan to give people what they want at a fair price and who cry like babies and sue, sue, sue... Go see a real act at a bar or other venue - pay the artists if you like the tunes...

    I can't wait for the RIAA to die so I can piss on their grave....

  99. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    New music sucks. Boring, formulaic crap by forgettable artists. That is the problem.

  100. Dinasours are extinct.. by laurabetterly · · Score: 1
    Traditional record companies haven't realized that they are extinct too.

    When I started PCDJ in 1999, we couldn't get agreement from anyone to allow us to digitize music for use with the player, so in essence, a DJ would have to rip his whole collection rather than just purchase in MP3 format. MP3 format was evil as it promoted "stealing" in the eyes of these guys.

    The thing that isn't looked at is the stats of the music business were going up until the RIAA shut down Napster. People were previewing music and then going out and buying it. Some guys didn't, but they would have never purchased the music anyway.

    Then the industry stopped taking chances and developing new acts. (That started somewhat before 1999, but continued.) Do you realize the amazing artists that would have been dropped after one album under current standards? Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Led Zepplin, Nirvana, Red Hot Chilli Peppers, etc.

    So, these guys and the way they operate are dead, they just haven't realized it yet.

    I suspect that the artist of now and the future is going to make a living with touring and mechandizing and much less from album sales.

    Also, one other thing to note with iTunes, etc. A singles market is what is now viable and in truth the cost of delivery for digital downloads is practically nothing, so although the dollar amount for sales is down, the profit should theoretically be up because of no cost of delivery, no traditional retail middleman.

    Anyway, that's my .02

    --
    Laura Betterly Yada Yada Marketing Firm
  101. INSIGHTFUL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can always rely on /tard moderation to tag some fucking worthless logic to posts that are simply contain dime store logic and let me just say you fucknuts, I dont work for the record industry, am just a musician who gave up on the "business" so long ago. I have a real life now, one not dependent on others honesty, especially you tards.

    I have read posts here from dickwads who think "musicians make too much money" and "that its time for that to end". Hey communist fuck you and your mother, I think you fuckhead coder geeks are way overpaid especially since its all bug laden shit for the most part and then you blame microsoft, haaaa.

        But lets get to the real issue, stealing aka downloading and calling it anything else is lieing.

    You fucking tools actually believe that free downloads actually encourage, stimulate sales.

        Wow now thats fucking genius in some fucking alternative shithole universe or worse the Communist Hell of the Soviet Union. I have news for you, all that free and unfettered downloading does is encourage one to find even more free content of the saame with a small percentage of honest and caring fans who actually seek to purchase the offspring of your labor. Janis Ian said it herself, a whopping what $2300 in sales estimated.

            If thats stimulation, then you are fucking doomed to be a loser for eternity

            Now how bad has it gotten, well you wonder why music sucks and why in my day, the 60's, 70's and 80's, everywhere you turned your head you heard good music across a wide spectrum of genre and the artists, who started humbly enough could evolvle or die, that was made possible by the ability for them to make a living. Now they need fucking merchandising and forays into more visual media where they become whores of the bigger machine and the last thing they can concentrate on doing and doing well, is making music. The reasons that has all has changed are 2 fold, that renaissance is over thanks to the inability for musicians to make a living playing music, typically not get rich, just make a living. As the biz collapses from the top to the bottom where the vast majority of musicians reside, you'll be left with Guitar Hero or Rock Band or worse Spears, Back Orifice Boys etc etc.

          You made the choice and now you will live with the consequences of those choices as Ayn Rand kicks your tiny little testicles until they rattle your molars.

          Once again your "Free" model means the end of all things, especially creativity.

    The downslide is just getting started you idiots, your next and wait until I unveil my Autocoding AI, will render useful code without your fucking sloppy and shoddy workmanship, dickwads.

           

  102. Blame correctly by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

    The music industry should blame Steve Jobs. Regardless of what folks think of the ethics or lack thereof of the music industry and the avid listeners they call pirates, the decline of the CD is due directly to on-line streaming pioneered by Apple. And while there appears to be less music being sold by volume, I suspect that is an artifact of how sales are counted. Usually half the cuts on a CD are not worth listening to so if I have perfect choice of songs instead of 15-song albums, the loss of music sales ought to 50% instead of 15%. They are selling a lot more _music_, probably from a lot more different artists, but aren't able to sell packaged CDs so much because you're probably still wasting half your money.

    1. Re:Blame correctly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once again a /tard parrots "Usually half the cuts on a CD are not worth listening to".

            Its your fucking generation you dumbass, you have 0 aptitude for anything beyond a short tweet or some whore laden music video, its no wonder there is nothing worth listening to, no one worthy of creating can or is willing to whore themselves out as required by the demands of todays "marketplace" filled with narcissistic little twit with more tatooes than real life to go with them, aka POSERS. If your a musician, prepare to become a soft porn artist in order to make money and I have news for you, you cant compete with real porn so in the end your video is just half baked titillation with a bad soundtrack at that. At least with the other, you got some ball slapping into some 'gina, makes the bad music more tolerable

      THATS YOUR CULTURE, SUCK IT UP and go download it for free!

  103. pedro1948 by pedro1948 · · Score: 1

    The music industry has two problems of their own making. The first is the overpricing of music, even while they rip off the artists who create their product. The second is most music of today sucks. Back before music/record companies began to be run by MBA's and accountants, the people who ran them cared about music. They would take time to develop an artist. Even releasing several albums that didn't sell well and keeping the artist because they believed in them and thought the public would eventually catch on. A lot of good music in the sixties and seventies happened like this. Would Frank Zappa ever get signed today? Of course not, so we're left with companies that want blockbuster hits right away which means thee is no time for artists to develop. Also, different branches of the same company don't put in the same amounts of time and money to promote artists. I have a friend who was in a band from New York who were signed in the 90's by Warner Brothers. Unfortunately, it was Warner Brothers New York who didn't really put much into promoting artists. He found out that if the had been signed by Warner Brothers L.A., they would probably have put a lot of time and $$ into promoting his groups' album. They got their advance, recorded the album, found out what was really happening from other groups on the label, and used the remainder of their advance to go to L.A. and play clubs, hoping someone would help them, and broke up when the money ran out. The music industry is changing and the dinosaurs who run it can't see what's going on so they blame it on downloading and free streaming. If they would put out better product, maybe more people would pay for it. Who wants to spend $18 on a CD which has only one or two songs worth listening to. Change is coming.

  104. Probably said already- make better music by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

    See above.

    And reduce your costs. Pretty simple, eh?

    --
    Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
  105. What Music? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could it be that the music sucks?