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Playing a First-Person Shooter Using Real Guns
Blake writes "A group called Waterloo Labs rigged up a few accelerometers to a large wall and projected a first-person shooter onto it. Using some math, they can triangulate the position of impacts on the wall, so naturally they found someone with a gun and bought a large case of ammunition. Even cooler, this group usually posts a 'how we did it' video a few weeks after a project's debut, including source code."
shoot back?
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Real guns or not, iddqd and idkfa is all i need baby.
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
I sure hope it's bullet proof!
This will only encourage those idiots that say games are simulators for killing people.
On a brighter note it was still a pretty cool idea.
This type of thing has been done at shooting ranges around the world. Usually it involves laser modules added to a weapon, but some of them allow use of actual munitions without modifications.
Most are hunting or self-defense simulations.
Shooting at a close wall representing a target far away, and shooting at a target far away are not the same thing, ballistically speaking. Depending on the angle, a shot taken might have traveled past the intended target and missed if it were for real. Also, a closer shot means you don't have to adjust for windage or elevation, or at least as much. In Marine Corps boot camp, we fired at man-sized targets at 500 yards outdoors, which is not easy. I knew someone in the air force who said they did the same thing - little targets much closer indoors. Not surprisingly, he thought it was easy.
All that being said, this sounds pretty cool. It might liven up range time if nothing else.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Just saw that last night in one of their patented "off the wall tangent" clips. They were playing paintball in the house and realized they didn't have paintball guns, so they decided to use real guns.
When I was in the ARMY we trained on a video game system that had normal ar15's connected to gas lines that would simulate a round being fired. The whole wall in the trailer would be the target zone, close and far distances. This would also have wind, barometric pressure, and temperature so you know how to adjust your fire. And this was back in 2003, so how exactly is this new? This system would also use live ammo, but the ballistics gel isn't a fine surface to project onto.
And gimme Duck hunt!
This actually sounds fun - but its going to make the physical brutality (exercise!) of certain Wii games look like a walk in the park (also exercise).
I've tried. They just stop showing the pretty pictures.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Jack Thompson! Sigh. Hopefully he or someone else like him does not see this.
Granted, their version used something like Airsoft pellets rather than live rounds, but the idea was the same. Kind of a fun game, if you ignore the pellets that keep bouncing off the target and hitting you in the face...
Some info on the game.
Finally, a chance to level playing field against all the smack-talking 13 yr olds playing COD on Xbox live, Say hello to my M203
Live ammo is actually irrelevant part of the project.
It would have been far cooler if they played the fact that ANYTHING thrown at the wall registers as the accelerometers they've placed in the wall measure impact of practically anything.
As can be seen at the end of the video - it is far more fun to hit zombies with shovels than to shoot them.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
bullshit.
all soldiers (and yes, airforce pilots are also soldiers) undergo the same basic training so if the pilot cannot fly he still can shoot at the enemy or defend himself after ejecting.
this is not a fucking team fortress, real humans are universal.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Not necessarily. Who does security of the perimeter around the air base? Who would defend the air base in war time conditions when the marines and army are out there holding the line?
Knowing how to defend your colleagues, the installation and yourself is not a waste of money. It's not like they are in a low risk job and will never be deployed overseas.
Of course if their training is almost meaningless and treated as a joke by those doing said training. Then I agree with you.
That was years ago, so I guess. But today there are many airmen serving on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. In fact, the AF has increased combat training in boot camp because of that.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
You do know that Air Force has support ground elements, correct? And what if a pilot gets shot down in enemy territory? What is he going to defend himself with?
Not everyone in the Air Force is a pilot or weapons officer. I know Air Force security personnel who had to "knock doors" in Iraq.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
I guess you've never heard of pilots landing in enemy territory?
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Only in America
I preferred the bit at the end where they start dispatching the bad guys with shovels.
Now I want to play Left 4 Dead with a shovel!
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-Robert Heinlein
You mad
... where walls, accelerometers and all that fancy stuff is optional.
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
Dude, have you *seen* Stargate?
93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
Ssshhhh, any FPS player knows that bullets travel in infinite straight line at the speed of light.
Unless you use lasers in space shooters. Contrary to a popular disinformation spread frivolously by those lousy physicists, lasers are actually very slow. With a proper engine upgrades, you can outmanuver them easily.
You're either a troll or completely retarded. Allow me to enlighten you: most personnel in the Air Force don't serve in planes.
512 MB RAM, 20 GB disk, 200 GB transfer, five datacenters. $19.95/month.
When my dad was in the Army Air Corp in WWII, his training group was almost done and were getting ready to fly their B-17's across the ocean. There was a hitch though...
Seems that no one had arranged for their firearms training. They had to complete that before they could ship out. So they were all loaded onto trucks and brought to a deserted part of the Jersey shore (they were stationed in Atlantic City at that point - the hotels had all been converted to barracks)
They were each given a rifle, and they had to shoot three rounds. They told them to shoot at the ocean. Training completed, they flew off for Bangor, Me, and then made the perilous trek across the Atlantic (Halifax, Goose Bay Labrador, Iceland, etc.)
Brawndo: It's what plants crave!
This is a recent twist on something that has been going on in Firearms training since (at least) the 1970's.
My father, who was an LE firearms trainer for 20 years, would setup a sheet of drywall and movie projector and play "home movies" of car stops and building entries filmed in the first person. The student would fire live ammunition at the "screen" and the projector would be paused at the moment that the terminal force decision was made/executed.
Discussions would then be carried out about the shoot out and then the next guy would go (with a new clip, of course).
Low tech? Sure, but not bad for some rural cops 25 or 30 years ago...
Having said that... This is an amazing idea and I would very much like to build one of these for myself. I always wanted to play Redneck Rampage with my USP45. :)
Did you even watch the video?
An actual use for Arisoft guns.
Do you have any idea how long it takes to dig graves for twenty-three oak trees?
It's funny how they were able to think up this quite cool technology use but then manage to get their explanatory graphics wrong. At 0:40 in their Youtube clip, they show the shockwaves travelling out from the sensors and then intersect at the impact location. That is, of course, the exact opposite of what is really happening.
The whole idea of playing Half Life is not to go outside with real guns and kill aliens, but to sit in front of your laptop and killing them with mouse clicks.
If I wanted to kill aliens with real guns, I could do that without starting my PC... right?
You're either a troll or completely retarded. Allow me to enlighten you: most personnel in the Air Force don't serve in planes.
... they are shot out of catapults
And yet Heinlein's specialty was writing.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Reminds me of basic training in the army in the 70s. A projection screen is rolled around two rotating vertical cylinders, one on the left and one on the right, therefore forming a "double layer screen". A movie is projected on the front of the screen and light also shines from the back. The trainee shoots at the screen, where the movie representing the advancing enemy is running. At the "bang", the movie projector freezes the frame and we can see light shining from the back through the two aligned holes in the front and back screens. The instructor can determine whether it's a hit and then the cylinders are rotated so that the front and back holes are not aligned anymore and the impact disappears, and the exercise continues.
Do not shoot off screen to reload!!!!!
Everything is easy when you don't understand the problem.
I have seen lasers and blanks with rifles and differing scenarios for military use, but real bullets would make it even more real since you would get the kick, muzzle rise etc. This would be more realistic than blanks and a laser. So IMO this is really cool and I want one.
Are you kidding me? Chairforce... erm Air Force pilots do not under go the same kind of small arms training that a Marine does. Every branch of service has their own basic training courses. When I went through basic we spent most of one whole day learning about the M16A2 and got to shoot about 100 rounds at the range. The targets were all at simulated range. Meaning that it's a big sheet of paper with targets of varying size and shape.
I knew a girl who enlisted in the army to drive trucks and even she had an entire month of weapons training, some of which was with a .50 cal machine gun. The only people I am aware of in the Air Force that do anything more than qualify with small arms are Security Forces, Para Rescue and Combat Controllers,
All that said I'm not sure that adjusting for shots past 100 yards is something that anyone but snipers need to worry about in todays typical fighting environment.
I wonder how this affects lag? Sure, a bullet will get to the wall pretty quickly, but in some games, there is basically zero lag between firing and hitting the enemy. Here you fire, the bullet hits, the computer calculates, and then the avatar shoots, right?
From various biographical material, it seems that Heinlein demonstrated all those abilities except "plan an invasion" (he was in the Navy between wars) and "die gallantly" (he died of old age).
Edward.E. Smith probably could have pulled all those things off as well (in his case, probably including "plan an invasion")...
Not all members of the air force are pilots. Even the guy driving the truck with the spare fuel is probably a soldier in the air force and he better knows how to shoot when some guys try to ambush him.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
This should not be marked as flamebait and raises a very genuine problem.
Live and 'simulation' weapons training should always be quarantined to prevent disastrous fuckups.
I cannot STAND it when indoor firearms ranges have a coin operated shooting game. It's just begging for someone to pull out a real gun, out of habit.
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
Watch the video.
Next time your wife gets pissy, use the shovel.
Do you or your partner snore? - Visit www.snoring.com.au
Who do you think goes in and pulls the operators @$$es out of the fire when things go all pear-shaped?
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Worked for a company (Advanced Interactive Systems) in the late '90s that had a system to track real bullets from real guns, with the bullets passing through a self-healing screen. System could track anything from a single shot from a .45 to every round out of an AR-15 at full auto, etc. Was the basis for FPS and other apps for indoor shooting ranges and an option for the PRISim system for police & military training.
From their website, it looks like this 'lives on' in some of their current products.
it is the versatility of humans that helped the species not only to survive but to get on the top of the food chain.
because no one is irreplaceable, because everyone can learn new things, because people have to invent new stuff.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Did you even watch the video?
No I didn't. I was short on time, and assumed that the summary captured the essence of the story. Was I mistaken?
I loved Heinlein as a kid. My respect for him plummeted when he had a female character that we were supposed to identify with marry a guy who had raped and tortured her ("Friday").
I piss off bigots.
re -- "Shoot back?" comment above -- the answer for PRISim was "yes, it did shoot back and yes, it could shoot first." Used to teach LEOs proper use of cover -- but the rounds are 'toned down' a bit -- just left a bruise. "credible threat of pain" really puts your head in the game !
However - slightly off topic since this was not sold with the live fire system. The purpose was to provide the trainer with a means of forcing the user to make their mistakes in the sim, not the field. Mistakes w/ live ammo "would be bad"
[disclaimer - worked for them]
It's a neat idea, but Holy Crap that video was annoying.
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
That's real helpful when you're at 38,000 feet and Mach 2.3, and your target is somewhere over the horizon. Yet another example of government waste.
How stupid are you? How many people are in the Air Force (any Air Force)? How many of those actually fly 'planes? It takes an enormous number of personnel to support each pilot/plane and they are ground-based. So teaching them how to defend their bases seems like a good idea to me. Plus if infantry suddenly needs reinforcement where do you think that should come from? Civilians? Even with 100% conscription it would take time to induct, train, equip and deploy them.
You know, like ricochet off the wall.
Scott Carr
Before Heinlein was a writer, he was an officer in the Navy, having been through the Naval Academy. Which suggests he probably could take and give orders, co-operate, act alone, conn a ship, fight efficiently, and plan an invasion.
I'd guess that he could also change a diaper, pitch manure, butcher a hog, build a wall, set a bone, balance accounts, and comfort the dying, all of those being skills someone of his background would have picked up one way or another.
The only building I know of he "designed" was the one in "...And He Built A Crooked House"; that one probably doesn't count.
The only one of those I'm sure he failed to do is die gallantly.
90s-era American science fiction movie starring Kurt Russell? Hardly!
I piss off bigots.
What's "expert"? The list of qualifications. Then more please on your 221 and 7 out of ten experience. 7 out of 10 what's?
For example in my little world of high power rifle.
A Individual classification
High Master 97% or above
Master 94%-96.99%
Expert 89%-93.99%
Sharpshooter 84%-88.99%
Marksman below 84%
B targets and sizes
200 yard target
Aiming black
x ring 3"
10 ring 7"
9 ring 13"
Rings in white
8 ring 19"
7 ring 25"
6 ring 31"
5 ring 37"
300 yard target
Aiming black
x ring 3"
10 ring 7"
9 ring 13"
8 ring 19"
Rings in white
7 ring 25"
6 ring 31"
5 ring 37"
600 yard target
Aiming black
x ring 6"
10 ring 12"
9 ring 18"
8 ring 24"
7 ring 36"
Rings in white
6 ring 48"
5 ring 60"
What are your target values, the size of the 10, 9, 8, etc rings?
Thanks,
Jim
"pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal"
Yeah, definitely needs to wash hands before cooking. Computers are dirty!
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
If everyone does their own work well, it turns out efficient overall, if everyone does [everything] "decently" we end up with crap.
You should be able to do your work well and things related to it decently. If your specialty is programming, you also should be able to see that the PC does not turn on because the cable is unplugged. If you drive a car, you should also know how to change a tire or a battery - you may do it slower than a professional, but it will be faster than waiting for that professional to arrive.
A SWAT team member is unlikely to need to fly a plane, however, a pilot might be shot down and land in enemy territory, knowing how to defend himself outside of a plane should help.
What's described is little different from firearms training systems such as CAPS, which project live-action video onto a life-size shoot-thru screen - allowing training with full-power live-fire in realistic situations. Police, military, and citizens* have been using this technology for more than a decade (albeit perhaps not quite as technically sophisticated).
(* - some of us realize that the police & military won't be there for us when their job needs to be done.)
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
But what about Rocket Jumps? I think right now you can only do one. After that things don't work so well....
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
Canada?
Haida Manga
You must be new here.
The essence of a Slashdot discussion is how far the summary is from reality.
Have gnu, will travel.
Too right.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3505414.stm
You obviously have not been in the Military. Boot Camp in the Core is nothing like Air Force Boot Camp. Pilots are not soldiers, sure they may wield 9mm side arms but you will never see them marching on the front lines.
idclip would just cause headaches, unfortunately
... you'd get to use it at banks, safes and shower cubicles of the opposite gender.
When used together with idbehold-i, it'll be perfect!
Just browsing the summary, but this sounds very similar to some of the archery systems they have set up at hunting stores.
A woodland scene is projected on a screen, and you actually fired your own arrows (points replaced with a blunted tip) onto the screen. It would mark where you hit, and then 'score' your performance based on where it felt the best position to shoot the animal was.
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
Just play enough CS, and you'll start hallucinating. More realistic too.
A friend of mine does this with golf. Makes a pretty good living off it too. (Golf is significantly less dangerous though.)
Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
Does it work w/ an engineer's wrench? Those things are brutal 8'). What about an Axe wrapped in Barbed wire?
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
Just sayin', I mean they did use Halflife for the demo.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
Okay, let me rephrase it: all soldiers are supposed to get the same basic training.
Anyway, you are wrong. My grandfather was at VVS (soviet airforce) in the WW2. He was an aircraft mechanic for Il-2 ground attack aircraft. But more often than not he was supposed to fly as the rear gunner (because of the high death rate of rear gunners) and in the fight for Berlin he was at the front line serving as an infantryman.
In a real war shit happens and often people have to improvise. That is how naval infantry came to existence in first place.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
I hate Illinois.
(No Class III here. For those of you outside the United State, that's the fun stuff like full auto, short barreled weapons and "silencers". Heavily regulated since the 1930s, completely verboten in the benighted province of Illinois.)
Enlighten yourself: Tactical Air Control Party ("Tack P.") Not all USAF personnel are jet jocks in socks, my friend.
I can see the fnords!
Personally, I am very worried that the sky is falling, aren't you? I don't think anybody is going to misunderstand that this is NOT a toy gun.
"in the Core"?
As in, in the "Marine Core"?
Wow. I guess those Air Force pukes just aren't hardcorps enough for that kind of training.
Learn about Photography Basics.
Shame he didn't include "get along with people". His family didn't get along with him.
It was called combat.
And I am utterly mystified as to why anyone in their right mind would consider it "fun."
Regards;
The game wouldn't last too long.
You must not be from the US, same as I. I found this very confusing until I understood that the term liberal has been hijacked by a not so liberal group.
Brilliant. And I know he's a brilliant man. Citation?