Slashdot Mirror
Marine Corps Wants a Throwable Robot
coondoggie writes "The US Marine Corps has a request — build and rapidly deploy more 10lb-or-under robots its personnel can throw into dangerous situations that can quickly gather information without endangering Marines. The throwable robot is part of a family of robots that would range from the 10lb version to one that would act as a central controlling device and weigh close to 300lbs. Marine commanders are demanding ever lighter robots so that troops don't have to offload critical equipment from their rucksacks to accommodate them."
... that looks and sounds like something out of a goddamn Stephen King novel. If you had a whole regiment or whatever of these things, you could do all the reconnaissance you wanted and nobody would say 'boo' to you.
Make explode too, eh?
"If you want to know what happens to you when you die, go look at some dead stuff."
How about a large Weeble with encrypted wifi, cameras and microphones pointing in each direction, including up? Toss it in, monitor it remotely via wifi.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Designated "GR3N4-DE"
I have something in common with Stephen Hawking...
Just what George Lucas needs to hear about...
The robots should be carrying the equipment and throwing each other.
The marines should be making the decisions and dodging the other guys robots.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
a. destroy it immediately
b. know exactly where YOU are, and while you are making sense of the "data" it is supplying, you may well expect a counter-offensive move of some deadly force...
Yet another dumb idea from a bloated military that should be pared down by 50% for the next 3 years running.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
They're about 10 pounds and very throwable.
1# A robot may not harm a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2# A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
2# A robot must protect its own existence, as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
... Type One Autonomous Mobile Swords.
Eep!
Why not just arm one of these.
__ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
You fool! You have two second laws, and one of them's self-referential! No wonder the robots went mad and started killing people!
...recursive no less.
CHUCK: CHUCK Hates Urban Combatants, Kill!
Typical military project wasting money on building a specially "throwable" robot - every robot is throwable (once)!
Sounds like an updated version of a monkey with a lit stick of TNT tied to his back. Easy to throw, difficult to throw back.
See the company : http://www.reconrobotics.com/
The folks here have been developing this technology for 10 years now. It started as a DARPA-funded academic effort and has now gone commercial.
All of this makes me think of what could be an Acme Instant Sentry. You throw a toolbox over, it rights itself, builds up a bit, and in seconds you got a limited capacity automated sentry. If there's room, just add a speaker and program it to say "Hell-looooooooo-hoooooooo? Can-you-come-over-here? There-you-are." *ratatatatatatatatatatat!*
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Or maybe it's Modern Marvels. I've been seeing all kinds of robots over the last couple of years on these shows. I saw one that was like a little pair of wheels with a camera on the axle and what looked like a weighted antenna hanging off the back (to keep it oriented correctly). Soldiers would throw it into a room and drive it around looking for hidden bad guys or booby traps. Then, there was one that was a little track-driven thing that had a machine gun mounted on it. They were even talking about the possibility of making them rather autonomous at some point in the future.
All this stuff seems to be in the development pipeline, so I'm not exactly sure what they're asking for.
Reading about cool stuff like that, makes me want to get back in. Too bad this type of thing will already have been fielded to the Army 10 years prior to the Marines getting it...
They have camera and voice recording capabilities on the iPhone right?
Can't they throw that instead?
I would prefer a *reliable* device that added *as little as possible* to the 70lbs I already carry, that "just works," even after I throw it, drop it, sit on it in sand and gets shot twice. If it still does the job, I'll buy the damn thing myself...
unfortunately, a lot of this tech doesn't work that well, that's why k-bars and bayonets are still issued.
Also, I agree that robots should be carrying gear so I can kick some $given_enemy butt.
CAPTCHA: "uncouth" coincidence?
There's an app for that.
Not listed is an unspecified bonus if the device says "Bite my shiny metal ass" after gathering information.
it's called the throwbot http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=321
I think you ought to know I'm feeling very depressed.
Brain the size of a planet...
Life... don't talk to me about life.
Homonyms are fun!
You're driving your car, but they're riding their bikes there.
Chairbot
I'm all for it if it saves lives.
Invent gun holders that can see around corners via telescope and infrared cameras and hold a pistol or rifle so it can be fired around corners.
Then again throwing a Throwbot instead of a Grenade means less innocents are killed that way, what if you have innocents in the other room who aren't armed and are hostages or used as human shields? Throwing a grenade means the innocents die as well, throwing a Throwbot gives you another view to take sniper shots with and only kill the armed enemy and leave the innocents alone and alive.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
For anyone that doesn't live in one of the three countries in the world that persists with imperial units, 10lbs is about 4.5kg.
All robots are throwable. The key is, you have to find the one that handles the landings better than the rest.
You never expect irony, do you?
Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
@iyfwrestling
The base R&D has been done. They clearly say in the article they want something like Dragon Runner with more capability.
I know a bit about Dragon Runner. Trust me, it's seriously cool and very well engineered. If you don't believe it has the "throwable" part down, watch this movie.
In the form of the Eye Ball R1 - http://www.defensereview.com/eye-ball-r1-throwable-camera-system-for-high-risk-mille-tactical-ops/
Now, if they want to be able to control the devices movements, I'm sure that Remington or the company who actually designed them would be more than happy to do a bit of a redesign to suit.
There are already throwable robots. The iRobot PackBot is sometimes thrown through a window to get a look inside a house. The USMC would like something a bit smaller, but the concept already works.
Previous urban tactics were to throw in a grenade or demolish houses with artillery and tanks, so there's been some progress.
If we let the kids grow up, they become terrorists.
Women give birth to future terrorists.
Can't they just use cats with cameras strapped to their heads?
because the world is a pleasant campfire singalong, and no ones means any one else any wrong
as russia tries to claim the arctic, engages in neoimperialism in the caucasus, as china ramps up its military spending, as myanmar tries to get nukes, as north korea has them, as iran tries to get nukes, as venezuela ramps up military purchases of heavy armament, etc., etc.
yeah, its a world of love and good will. no need for a serious military, you're a genius
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
10lb-or-under robots its personnel can throw into dangerous situations
You mean like the I-Ball?
I don't know if they realize this, but Talon Ops bought out a company that is making EXACTLY this already - to the letter. The little robot is called the Dragon Runner, and the larger robots can do just about anything - shoot guns, missiles, do recon, disable bombs, etc. They're already in use the field.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmPMlT6XpHM - That's the Dragon Runner in action. It's also customizable with treads, weapons, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yliThCy3RxY - TALON with a gun on it.
I sat through a lecture about these this summer. They're pretty damn cool, but expensive - even just the Dragon Runner has a $30k price tag.
(Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with this company, but I know somebody who is. I should talk to him about a "complimentary robot for referrals" program.) http://reconrobotics.com/ Recon Robotics makes a product called the Scout that is designed specifically for this purpose. Each robot weighs only 1.2 pounds, is deployable and easily controllable by a single soldier, and is relatively inexpensive compared to other combat-ready robot technologies. I know I want one. ;)
Pokeball!
It's called the Mk.II. http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/metalgear/images/thumb/8/8b/Metal_Gear_Mk._II.jpg/375px-Metal_Gear_Mk._II.jpg
I am nervous that the kids who grew up on Pokémon are all grown up and in the military now....
Are they going to throw Pokéballs at opposing forces?
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Anyone know how to view the contract for this request? Or any more in depth information about where the request came from (I RTFA).
It would be ideal if the robot comes in a little ball or is ball shaped and unfolds. Being able to announce it's name for identification is a bonus. Being bright yellow for visability and being able to electricute even the entire crew of a helicopter would certainly stop any team with rockets.
Grenade with a camera and a remote trigger,
Now there's a robot, just to bad you can't reuse it.
No real joke intended here. But just an idea-- robotic snakes. The snake form factor does a lot better on rough terrain than anything based on wheels. If it is built to look like a real snake, it can also frighten enemies beyond belief. They can also be designed to be thrown up on telephone / power lines, hook on, then travel along the line while sending video back to the thrower. Power lines are a great vantage point.
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
There is waste in any bureaucracy, and the military is no different. How a liberal, who generally is in favor of bigger government, can rail against the waste that is endemic in a big government and yet cannot recognize the dissonance between those two desires and grow up is beyond me, but that's an aside for now.
What say you put YOUR life on the line, and then tell others they are spending too much to protect you, hmmm?
:-D
Jesus Christ, WARN US when the site auto-plays extremely LOUD audio. I almost shit myself.
Comment of the year
the north korean government works as a blackmailing entity: lob missiles over japan, set off nukes... get shipments of food and oil from concerned countries. rather than gee, i dunno, figuring out the korean war is over and engaging in peaceful trade with its neighbors so its able to afford food and oil on its own?
now all of what you said might be true, but i always thought the purpose of a government was to serve it's people. but a nuclear power whose people eat leaves? does that make any sense to you? to me, its the dictionary definition of an illegitimate government
the only thing the government of north korea serves is the ego of a little old man in 4 inch lifts. the north korean government does not deserve to exist. not that anyone is in a position to remove it. and even when it finally decays or implodes (which people have been waiting for it to do for fifty years) you have to deal with a psychologically traumatized population who have spent their entire lives extremely propagandized about all of the japanese and americans on hair trigger readiness to come and rape the women and eat the babies... if it weren't for dear leader vision and genius saving them. have some more leaves
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
but the usa ranks only 27th in military spending
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures#List_of_countries_by_military_expenditure_as_a_percentage_of_GDP
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
i wholeheartedly support it
but the usa only ranks 27th in military spending
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures#List_of_countries_by_military_expenditure_as_a_percentage_of_GDP
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
and he sold it to the iranians, libyans, and the north koreans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadeer_Khan
he may be the man indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions, one way or another, if nukes ever percolates down to even sketchier countries and entities
but pakistan's nukes are mostly a point of pride in pakistan's blood feud with india
as for iraq, iraq would have never have gotten nukes. even if the usa never existed. the reason being is that iraq's main problem is that it couldn't stop invading its neighbors: iran and kuwait. either israel or iran would have bombed any iraqi nuclear sites to stop it from acquiring nukes if no one else was going to (israel already bombed a syrian nuclear site). of course, iraq never was building nukes (ah cheney, you lying manipulative sleazebag)
north korea meanwhile, is insane and evil, but not stupid: it doesn't actually live up to all its endless military propaganda of its insurmountable strength (actually invade south korea), because then it knows it would be wiped from the earth in less than a week. its old cold war sponsors beijing and moscow have long since tired of north korea, and mainly barely tolerate it nowadays, as a rabid dog that serves the vaguely useful purpose of scaring the west and keeping its attentions diverted
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Further than I would want to throw myself if we're talking about into a room with a lot of angry men with guns. Also, I'm not in the same shape a marine would be, I'd expect a marine would be able to throw a 10lb weight further. The article specifically mentions "can see around corners inside buildings, sewers, drainpipes, caves, courtyards" so corners, not distances, and it sounds kind of like they're looking into remote controlled after being thrown.
Yet another rash judgement from someone didn't even RTFA, let alone knows the full story. But lets not let trivial details like facts we don't know stand in the way of our statement that fully half our military budget is completely dispensable.
(For the record, I'm a liberal and also dislike the amount we spend on the military. It's not that I'm biased in favor of dumping all our money on the military, you're just making us look dumb.)
Mmmmm-kay. Yeah, you sound like a combat veteran who knows what he's talking about. NOT!!
What you actually sound like, is a middle aged has-been who watches to much television and assumes that Hollywood knows combat.
Challenge: Define "shelter" and "cover". Watch a dozen or even a gross of Hollywood productions. Watch carefully for every instance in which the concepts are accurately conveyed, and realistically used.
BTW - you might have RTFA. It's the MARINES who want this 10-poung-or-less-robot, not the National Guard. No one who has ever worn a uniform can possibly confuse the two.
If you can't figure out the moderations going up and down on your post, it's because this is what Slashdoters see with default settings. You sound insane. :\
I've figured out the real thread, but the average moderator probably didn't
Slashdot, wtf.
mainly by cutting waste. but if military spending is below 5% gdp, in any country, i don't see the problem
if military spending were 10% or more of gdp, i'm with your words completely
otherwise, something as vital as military spending is under 5%? i'm trying to get upset or concerned, and i can't
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
You know, basing the camera on a grenade form/body might be the best solution: forget about mobility and instead concentrate on making just a camera you can toss into a room.
I can imagine making it softball-sized, so that it would be easy to lob. Once the camera lands, it extends tripod legs to right itself. The camera can then pan in 360Â, maybe even with slight elevation controls as well. Moving the camera is done by hand, folding the legs back in so that the camera can be tossed into the next room (repeat until battery is drained).
It's possible that the camera will be tampered with, but the mere act of tampering will be usable info. Microphones can pick up voices, to tell the difference between a bad landing or if someone is trying to block the images. Also, anywhere you can toss the cam grenade, you can toss a shrapnel grenade to go with it: no need to make the cam grenade heavier with booby trap explosives.
Unlike an explosive hand grenade, the cam grenade won't kill hostages/civilians. This is important, as the marines' future missions won't allow for a "kill 'em all and let God sort them out" mentality.
they could put them in little balls and when two marines would meet eachother they would set up a fight, the winner would take the robot of the other.
PI KA CHU
...the Marine Corps also wants a pony.
Before we surf in the skies and throw robots with robots.
"Nobody throws a robot!"
I don't care about the quantity of government. I care about the quality.
Fix the quality and the quantity will take care of itself.
I believe you can't fix the quantity and expect the quality to take care of itself, so to me the endless arguments about quantity just shows how stupid people are.
Voting for politicians just because they want "small" (or "big") government isn't going to help you get better government.
Just say you get a government of just one person, because you think a government of just one bad person reduces the amount of badness. The trouble is that one person could make bad[1] contracts with crappy organisations to do the millions of stuff he/she can't do (or doesn't want to do).
[1] Bad for the people, but good for him/her and his/her cronies.
And the last I checked, corporations in the USA do NOT necessarily have to care about "luxuries" like "Freedom of Speech". Even if the immediate government contractors are required to care, they could always keep subcontracting till the phrase becomes useless.
Gun & Ammo, water & food if not possible to get on site, the rest is optional.
If consumed, best digested with added seasoning to own preference.
Why do I picture the military throwing Furby over a wall or launching Furby from a cannon?
Your shit movie might get done faster if you stop trolling all the time. Go back to your cave.
Then, hmm, "Uuhhh, danger, lets send in the robot". Where have all Gung ho's gone?
Also the battle situation for all those teenage marines will become more realistic. They'll be given a screen, a joystick, and they need to shoot down all the other moving dots on the screen. Less training needed, no more x weeks of Pendleton.
When it comes to the RFP, I hope they added as requirement the emitters you wear when facing the robot. Sending out the signal "f-r-i-e-n-d-l-y". Afgans , I imagine, will be rather keen to get some of those.
Seriously, lets try to see things in a positive manner - it documents the will of generals not to waste young lifes - hopefully on both sides.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wacky_WallWalker Wacky Wallwalker FTW.
All you need is a clear plastic hamster ball, a spring, and a webcam with wifi attached. Throw that in there, the cam will see everything and theball will roll around for a minute before it gets destroyed or loses momentum. Cost: way less than whatever robot they were thinking of developing. Does no one use their brain anymore? geez!
stuff |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
With our technology of today I could see more like 2 to 5 pounds max each...why so heavy, and for the distance they need to be thrown, have built in parachute like devises to avoid getting damaged, and lower the need for protective outer shell...would cut down a bit on the weight...throwing a 10 vs throwing a 5 pound weight is enormous.
of course if i was designing this thing i would have it able to go "BOOM" on command/ when shot/after timeout
but anytime you use ordinance and don't disable any enemy is bad. disabling innocent civilians in the process is even worse.
so throw a bot into the room roll the dice
everybody in the room a valid "target" = pop the bot and make entry during the confusion
Mixed room = use Hot zone protocol (hey you know where almost everybody is)
No valid targets = put weapons on safe and pick up your bot on the way through
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Straw man. No one is saying "because the world is a pleasant campfire singalong, and no ones means any one else any wrong", "its a world of love and good will" nor are they saying "no need for a serious military". The issue was less spending, not none at all. For heaven's sake, please try to at least respond to what people say. But I guess it's easier to get modded up if you make up a point of view to argue against?
If, e.g., a certain invasion didn't happen, there'd be hundreds of billions of dollars extra to use for worrying about that other stuff.
And what, precisely, are you going to do with extra military spending in response to other countries having nukes? Invade all of them before they get them? Good luck with that. Invade them after they get them? Yeah right. Have nukes as a deterrent? The US already has them.
Was I the only one who's first thought after reading the headline was Fastball Special?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastball_Special
Now if the robot was called Wolverine, I'd be all in.
I call it 'The Aristocrats'
Ah, it's funny to watch you now back-peddle. Yes, the question of how much a % of GDP to spend on an issue is a matter of debate - you might say 5% is fine, the OP thought it should be less than that.
That's a completely different claim to your original argument that reducing spending would mean the US is incapable of running a "serious" military, or dealing with any of the threats that the US may face - for that, percentage of GDP is not a very meaningful measure.
If you say "sure the usa could spend less", then I see it turns out you agree with the OP after all, because that's what he was saying.
One prototype for this kind of robot didn't do so well in tests....
Sgt. Connor tossed the robot into a room hoping for a report - after a short period it rolled back out of the room to communicate back its findings...
Connor: Report.
Robot: HARO, GENKI?
Connor: Yeah, hi. Report, please.
Robot: HARO, GENKI? HARO!
Connor: Damnit, tell me what's in there!
Robot: CONNOR-GUNSOU, OKKOTTEIRU, OKKOTTEIRU.
Connor then kicked the robot, causing it to rebound off a wall and hit him in the head.
Bow-ties are cool.
Apparently the USMC doesn't read yahoo news:
http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20090819/ap_on_hi_te/as_afghan_wired_war
I am nervous that the kids who grew up on Pokémon are all grown up and in the military now....
Are they going to throw Pokéballs at opposing forces?
This Penny Arcade seems rather apropos...
Bow-ties are cool.
Five years into the war, Alliance scientists created a weapon called the Autonomous Mobile Sword, or "screamer". The artificially intelligent screamers were subterranean, self-replicating, crawlers which target and locate a life-form by tracking its pulse. The screamers are equipped with a spinning saw blade designed to kill by "leaping" from the ground and dismembering the target.
Spooky steps to a reality for "Autonomous Mobile Sword".
Far better to have a bag of 8 ounce robots that you throw into a situation like a box of ball bearings. Let them scatter, sprout eyes, ears, chemical sensors and IR antennae, instantly network with each other and move in coordinated swarms toward a target. Just watching the beasties react to your presence would send you into a heebie jeebie fit, with a strong incentive to move away. Especially if a few of 'bots are C4 grenades which can be maneuvered forward by the network and detonated by independent circuitry. Since this can be a re-programmable network, you could have a medic fog as well as a search and destroy fog.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
Just wait until the robots decide to throw YOU into the dangerous situations.
iRobot Ember
Steve Ballmer has announced the release of Microsoft Chairbot 1.0. He has allegedly personally tested its throwing characteristics himself with heavy enthusiasm.
Table-ized A.I.
If the main purpose is to gather information in a dangerous situation, why does it have to be a robot? maybe i need to lookup the actual definition of a robot.
Seems like the ultimate would be an orb about the size of a softball. This orb would contain sensing equipment like infra-red cameras, microphones and a radio transmitter to send the info back to a marine with a computer. This information could be used to count the number of enemy combatants, the number of them wounded, where they are located, and listen into their conversations. Ok, with all that equipment, maybe it would be closer to the size of a football. If the info from the probe leads to the conclusion that there are too many enemies for our forces to move into the area, or if our enemies decide to stop our snooping by shooting the probe, it blows up in their face.
Let's call it a "probe grenade" or "pre-nade".
They should store them in small colorful plastic balls. Each time they encounter the enemy, everyone throws their roboball into some arena. Gogo picachu!