Slashdot Mirror


Watermelon Juice Makes Great Biofuel

Mike writes "Watermelons are more than just a tasty summer snack — researchers at the USDA have determined that the fruit constitutes a promising and economically viable source of biofuel. It turns out that the relatively high concentration of directly fermentable sugars in watermelon juice can be easily converted into ethanol. Rather than grow fields of the fruit for the purpose, the report suggests that farmers capitalize on the 20% of each annual watermelon crop that is left in the field because of surface blemishes or because they are misshapen."

160 comments

  1. High school cheer.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I guess this could lead to my Alma Mater returning to its old cheer:
     
    Barbecue! Watermelon! Cadillac car!
    We're not as dumb as you think we is!

  2. The more important question by Misanthrope · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a homebrewer, does this actually taste decent?

    1. Re:The more important question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If fellow /. knows of a great beer brewed with watermelons please for the love of Linux inform us.

    2. Re:The more important question by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      Dear Lord: I don't want to go back to college, so please help me be sexy. Amen.
    3. Re:The more important question by SilverHatHacker · · Score: 3, Funny

      Gotta love how most anything that makes a great alternative fuel also makes a dang good alcohol. And they say drinking and driving don't mix...

      --
      Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
    4. Re:The more important question by Rei · · Score: 1

      Like this? :)

      Mal: "Now we're favored guests, treated to the finest in beverages that make you blind."

      --
      Dear Lord: I don't want to go back to college, so please help me be sexy. Amen.
    5. Re:The more important question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know about watermelon wine, but damn, I think that background was trying to give me an aneurysm.

    6. Re:The more important question by stokessd · · Score: 1

      Tom T Hall would be proud...

    7. Re:The more important question by madsenj37 · · Score: 1

      My buddy brewed some watermelon beer a few months back and it tasted good. I do not know the recipe, but there are some good ones around. He usually gets his recipes from user submitted sites.

      --
      Choosing the lesser of two evils is a choice for evil.
    8. Re:The more important question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tom T Hall would be proud..

      Indeed

    9. Re:The more important question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everytime I get hopped up on watermelon, I start believing I am Crispin Glover and go on a manic church/elevator urination rage.

    10. Re:The more important question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Don't know about beer, but this one always works...
      (1) Cut quarter sized hole in top of watermelon.
      (2) Remove cap from the cheapest 1.75L bottle of vodka you can find and place bottle in hole upside-down.
      (3) Wait 1 day, then flip and let watermelon flavored vodka pour back into bottle.
      (4) Drink vodka. Eat watermelon.
      (5) Profit !

    11. Re:The more important question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's the GNAA when you need them? Bastards.

  3. That is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tasty fuel

  4. Duh by EkriirkE · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Any glucose/sugar product can be distilled this way.
    Next up: Candy Canes make Great Biofuel

    --
    from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
    1. Re:Duh by garcia · · Score: 2, Funny
    2. Re:Duh by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think its the fact that they can be turned into biofuel but the fact that we are pretty much just throwing away 20% of potential crops that can be used for it, so we wouldn't need to use new fields or change crops. On the other hand, pretty much all the corn grown for ethanol could be used for human consumption (yeah, you might need a different type of corn).

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    3. Re:Duh by DrLang21 · · Score: 1

      Candy canes? I would think that Sucrose would be a poor source of bio-fuel. The fact that it's a complex sugar and all of the energy already expended to extract it means that it would require a lot of energy input in comparison with the raw simple sugar fructose.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    4. Re:Duh by mejogid · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ploughing waste back into the land or leaving it to decompose is hardly wasting anything - it's a natural fertiliser and reduces the need for less sustainable artificial fertilizers. Creating artificial nitrate fertilizers often involves using huge amounts of fossil fuels to extract nitrogen from the atmosphere, and many other minerals are mined unsustainably and in a highly environmentally destructive manner.

    5. Re:Duh by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Next up: Candy Canes make Great Biofuel

      How do you think Santa is able to give out so much coal every year ?

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    6. Re:Duh by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I love how the American government seems dead-set and determined to find the most inefficient crops to create bio-fuel (usable energy per square meter of crop sort of thing).

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    7. Re:Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It says they leave them in the field. That's not wasting, that fertilizing. I sure hope the money they make off that 20% is enough to buy a replacement fertilizer.

    8. Re:Duh by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are partly right and partly wrong here. Yes ploughing it back in the land saves fertiliser, that's right. But on the other hand, the sugars in the water melon juice nor the water it contains do anything to fertilise the land. And those sugars is what the fuel makers are after.

      So the simple solution would be to harvest the melons, squeeze out the juice for the fuel makers, and return the solid parts to the land for composting. And I'm sure juice presses can be cheap enough and US farms tend to be large enough that installing one on each farm is no problem. That way the farm retains all the bits useful for fertilising and the biofuel factory gets it's sugars.

    9. Re:Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      didn't edison learn 1000 different ways not to make a light bulb?

      I know we live in an on demand society but real progress takes time.

    10. Re:Duh by d3ac0n · · Score: 1

      Or a method similar to the one used with corn based ethanol manufacturing could be set up. The farmers sell the watermelons to the factory, the factory pulps and processes the melons, making bio-fuel, and the waste pulp is then resold very cheaply to anyone who wants it.

      Not only does this method generate more capital, it's less resource intensive and more efficient as it doesn't require farmers to set up "juicing" factories on their property. So the farmers just keep doing what they are doing now, and the Ethanol makers just keep doing what they are doing now, everybody makes money, and more Ethanol is made.

      Now, if we could just solve that pesky "Ethanol is acidic, difficult to store and transport, and less efficient as a motor fuel than fossil fuels" problem.

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    11. Re:Duh by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

      Well done my dear Watson, now if we can just go catch that Jack the Ripper fellow, we could
      maybe stray down the lew for an ale!

      Seriously, I would mod you up for informative on that one

    12. Re:Duh by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Now, if we could just solve that pesky "Ethanol is acidic, difficult to store and transport, and less efficient as a motor fuel than fossil fuels" problem.

      Euhm... maybe I'm forgetting my chemistry (I've a degree in it but not working in chemical industry) but afaik ethanol is not exactly acidic. I can't think of any way it would split in water to form an acid. If ethanol fuel is acidic then it's not pure (maybe acetic acid produced as well).

      Also I doubt the "difficult to store and transport part" silliness. That sounds like fud from vested interests.

      Less efficient than fossil fuels may be true, I don't know the energy produced when burning 1 litre of each.

    13. Re:Duh by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      I think they should just skip the middleman, and just convert rain-forest directly into biofuels. Make a machine that they can take to a rain forest, and have it grind up all the plants, monkeys, snakes, insects, etc. and pump out biodiesel. It will, at least, save the "burn down the trees" part of the conversion.

      Currently they are just going the long way around.
      1. Convert corn to biodiesel.
      2. 3rd world starving because of a lack of cheap corn.
      3. Slash/burn rain forest to create fields.
      4. Grow corn where rain-forest used to be.

      So, you biofuel users: Thanks for distroying the rain-forests (and filling the atmosphere with the burned trees, monkeys, etc) with your more expensive fuel.

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    14. Re:Duh by d3ac0n · · Score: 1

      Ethanol's hydroxyl proton is very weakly acidic. The pH of 100% ethanol is 7.33, compared to 7.00 for pure water.

      However, when compared against Gasoline it is still considered "acidic" since The compounds that make up gasoline do not dissociate into ions
      to any significant extent, and thus do not contribute to corrosion.

      Also, ethanol produced in Industrial processes is very rarely pure, often containing manufacturing and processing leftovers such as phosphoric and sulfuric acid. Keep in mind that as Ethanol is an organic fuel, long term storage (as is necessary in fuel production and distribution networks) can and does become problematic as Ethanol oxidizes into acetic acid.

      These acids are a problem because the vast majority of fuel storage systems currently in use are largely aluminum and steel. (truck tanks, storage containers, pipelines) Conversion for pure Ethanol use requires a costly lining process with a petrochemical-based liner (Plastic) which then makes the container unfit for gasoline and diesel storage.

      So it's not just a matter of making the fuel and dropping it into the existing system. An entire new sideline storage system is required. Very expensive, and as it requires petrochemical products to make it functional, is not nearly as "green" as some would have you believe.

      Gasoline is far and above more energy dense than Ethanol. Ethanol runs between 23.4 MJ/kg (That's Mega-Joules per kilogram) and 26.8 MJ/kg depending on how you measure it. Gasoline at 87 octane is 44.4 MJ/kg. So they aren't even close. Which, of course, means that you will need to burn almost twice the amount of Ethanol to get the same "oomph" as Gasoline. In other words, it is significantly less efficient to run Ethanol than it is to run Gasoline in an IC Engine. Advances in Engine technology are improving this, but it is doubtful that Ethanol will ever reach the utility and efficiency of gasoline. Sadly, it is simply an inferior fuel.

      My personal hope in the bio-fuels department is bio-diesel. It is easier to produce, lasts longer, and has nearly equivalent energy density to petro-diesel. Beyond that, the diesel engine is less polluting, more efficient, longer lasting, and more powerful than it's gasoline counterpart. I suspect the market for these is opening up, but the price point for diesel engines needs to come down to equal or nearly equal to gasoline for diesel use to really take off. We shall see what happens with that.

      --
      Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
    15. Re:Duh by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Ethanol's hydroxyl proton is very weakly acidic. The pH of 100% ethanol is 7.33, compared to 7.00 for pure water.

      You contradict yourself: pH >7 is alkaline, so EtOH is a very weak base. Which means it takes in an extra proton on that O atom.

      Conversion for pure Ethanol use requires a costly lining process with a petrochemical-based liner (Plastic) which then makes the container unfit for gasoline and diesel storage.

      Many fuel tanks for cars are made out of plastic, usually a HMW-HDPE, and those plastics are exposed to the fuel for years on end without problems. Also many fuel tubes in the car are made out of plastics, usually PA12. So it is not true that plastic is not compatible with gasoline.

  5. do the watermelong crawl by FudRucker · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:do the watermelong crawl by abigor · · Score: 1

      Well, they'll first need to be tested for strength: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Ta_Ii5b2U

    2. Re:do the watermelong crawl by What+the+Frag · · Score: 1

      Anyone got a mirror? In Germany I get

      "This video is not available in your Country due to copyright restrictions"

  6. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  7. Kickapoo Juice by mindbrane · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I worked for a couple of months on a farm run on manual labour. Dray horses were used when more than a strong back was needed. The owner of the farm made what he called his Kickapoo Juice from the watermelons he grew in a dirt patch near his house. It was a low alcohol content, mild sweet, hot summer's day drink. I high recommend watermelon as a base for biofuel. :)

    --
    ideopath @ play
    1. Re:Kickapoo Juice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I high recommend watermelon
      > I high

      Are you sure there were no .... residual effects ... ?

  8. Hope, Arkansas by megamerican · · Score: 1
    --
    If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
  9. RUM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    All the best Rum comes from watermelon.

  10. I missed the frosty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even a diabetics piss?

    1. Re:I missed the frosty by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      No, it's likely not concentrated enough to be economically viable.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
  11. Tractors! by elsJake · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Someone should design a decent bio reactor and distilling apparatus. Farmers would appreciate the free fuel , even if the industry does not adopt watermelon juice powdered cars , tractors have less sophisticated engines that could probably run on mostly alcohol without much damage. I some farmers down here ran their tractors on sunflower oil because that's what they were growing in the fields.

    1. Re:Tractors! by confused+one · · Score: 1

      ummm, most modern tractors (last I looked) were diesel. sunflower oil, yes. Ethanol, NO.

    2. Re:Tractors! by smoker2 · · Score: 1

      You have to use methanol in the biodiesel production process. You need about 40 litres per 200 litres of fuel produced. You can produce either methanol or ethanol from seed crops, vegetable matter etc.

    3. Re:Tractors! by confused+one · · Score: 1

      Yes, and for this use it would be appropriate. However, the parent said "tractors have less sophisticated engines that could probably run on mostly alcohol without much damage". Unless they have an older Ford 2000, International Harvester Farm All, or the like, which had gasoline engines, they are going to be very disappointed when they put the (m)ethanol in the diesel engine and try to start it.

  12. No wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess this is why I always feel pumped up after ingesting them!

  13. "Your car's fuel source is so ugly" by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Rather than grow fields of the fruit for the purpose, the report suggests that farmers capitalize on the 20% of each annual watermelon crop that is left in the field because of surface blemishes or because they are misshapen." [emphasis added]

    Imagine every other car sporting a "Your car's fuel source is so ugly..." bumper stickers.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  14. Wasted fruit? by Odo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The real news is that 20% of the watermelon crop is currently thrown out due to cosmetic issues. I don't understand why shape and surface issues would disqualify the fruit from use in processed foods. Such as watermelon juice, fruit salads, sweeteners, etc. If true (and the article did not provide citations, this represents a stunning waste.

    1. Re:Wasted fruit? by hesiod · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That happens all the time with various fruits and vegetables. It's because most people want to buy nice, round watermelons, and not one that looks like it has tumors, despite the fact that they are just as good. The markets know this, so the farmers sell the best product to the markets to keep them coming back. The rest becomes personal use, gifts, and possibly fertilizer for the next crop.

    2. Re:Wasted fruit? by Takehiko · · Score: 2, Funny

      When was the last time you saw a bottle of watermelon juice at the store?

    3. Re:Wasted fruit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was wondering this a while ago. Why isn't it available? It tastes good, and I would drink it over apple juice or orange juice.

    4. Re:Wasted fruit? by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Because watermelons aren't used in many processed foods. I've never seen canned watermelons, watermelon juice in any major store, etc.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    5. Re:Wasted fruit? by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      He specifically referred to using the cosmetically-inferior items in processed foods, where its appearance isn't relevant. (Figuring out why cosmetic issues are relevant when the consumer is buying the item directly isn't tough to figure out.) Provided the number of ugly fruit is less than the number of fruit used to make processed foods, this would seem to be the most efficient way to use the fruit.

      At a farmer's market, you can often buy the less visually-pleasing fruit as "seconds" at a discounted price.

    6. Re:Wasted fruit? by megamerican · · Score: 1

      Are they really "wasted"? Couldn't they be used for compost, animal feed, seeds, etc?

      --
      If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
    7. Re:Wasted fruit? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      I was sure I'd seen something in Tesco, so I had a look online:

      "Bacardi Breezer Watermelon 70cl
      Produce of United Kingdom
      4% Alcohol
      A refreshing and delicious fruit flavoured alcoholic drink. Bacardi Breezer is fruity, delicious and incredibly refreshing. Available in either 4 packs or as a 70cl to share, there is a flavour for every occasion."

      And currently on offer, two bottles for £5.

      They don't have a juice though. A watermelon is £3.50, or £4 for a "giant" one.

    8. Re:Wasted fruit? by Useful+Wheat · · Score: 5, Informative

      My family owns and operates a peach orchard in Colorado. I've helped with harvesting the trees and pruning the crop, and I'm reasonably familiar with the entire process. Any kind of surface defect or imperfection results in the fruit being thrown on the ground, or discarded. Our farm is fairly small, and only the truly massive farms can really make money selling fruit at less than grade A standards, because the prices are simply awful. Its just not worth the fuel to ship it at that point.

      Most of your grade "B" fruit and veggies comes from grade "A" fruit that sat around too long, and was sold at the lower price rather than thrown out.

    9. Re:Wasted fruit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The U.S. population is so materialistic, food that is perfectly edible but has parts with physical characteristics unpleasing to the eyes that are mostly likely not consumable, is considered 'bad'.

      Yes, its stupid. Yes, we should be called out on it.

      I'm considering growing my own garden, however I have 1 caveat: it must be computer controlled! :p

    10. Re:Wasted fruit? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Pickled watermelons are quite popular in Russia

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    11. Re:Wasted fruit? by tinkerghost · · Score: 1
      • Premade Fruit Salads
      • Kiwi/Watermelon Drinks
      • Watermelon Sherbet

      Those are off the top of my head. I'm sure that other people can come up with other ones.

    12. Re:Wasted fruit? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      It's probably economically inconvenient for the farmers.

      They won't be able to sell the damaged goods for as much, regardless of the eventual use.

      Also, there's probably not as much demand for watermelon juice, fruit, salads, sweeteners, which may contain some amount of watermelon flavoring plus artificial fillers and diluting substances, as there is demand for whole watermelons.

      Also, the 20% aren't wasted, the nutrients go back into the ground, and help fertilize and keep the soil usable; after growing watermelon, which has a way of sucking out massive amounts of nutrients, this is sorely needed -- and may even be a case of waste is better for the environment than the alternative.

    13. Re:Wasted fruit? by adolf · · Score: 1

      Only if there's a market for it -- just because there's ample supply of ugly watermelon, doesn't mean that anyone's currently buying it.

      I can count on one hand the number of times I've knowingly ingested industrially-processed watermelon.

      Most of the packaged salads and fruit trays that include watermelon are produced relatively locally, if not in the very grocery store where they're sold. I'd hazard a guess, based on the markup of such items, that there's no reason in these cases to bother to ask the produce distributor for less-than-perfect-looking fruit for these items, and that they go ahead and use their already-in-house consumer-grade pretty melons for salads and such.

      So, it seems realistic to me that, perhaps, 20% of the crop really does get left on the field to rot. Using this malformed fruit for ethanol, if it is indeed efficient to do so, sounds like a perfectly fine idea to me.

    14. Re:Wasted fruit? by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Yes -- watermelon is one of those examples where the market for ugly fruit is probably not too high.

    15. Re:Wasted fruit? by WebCowboy · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why shape and surface issues would disqualify the fruit from use in processed foods.

      The 20 percent ALREADY TAKES THAT INTO ACCOUNT...in other words, after all the "pretty ones" are sold for direct consumer sale AND as many "ugly ones" are used for "processed goods" as possible there is STILL a 20 percent portion of crop that is unsaleable. That is quite typical of many fruit crops actually. The amount of wasted edible food production is actually closer to FIFTY percent if you include all steps of production from field to 'fridge.

      In the case of watermelons:

      * I don't exactly see rows of cartons full of WATERMELON JUICE on the store shelves. I'm guessing the market for it is extremely small.
      * Texture counts as a cosmetic quality. Mushy watermelon is unfit for fruit salads too.
      * Surface fungus and similar defects could be removed by hand to make the rest of the melon edible, but it is too labour intensive to be cost-effective and risks contamination for food production.
      * "late bloomers" are underripe--edible but poor tasting.
      * over-ripe melons, besides being mushy, may have already started fermenting, making them unusable for processed foods (except for the tiny watermelon wine market perhaps).
      * America produces WAAAY more corn than could EVER be practically consumed directly by the market those producers can serve. That is a large part of why there is such an effective lobby for making an ethanol biofuel market out of their product even though there are better biofuel alternatives out there. VERY LITTLE corn is actually eaten by humans as actual corn kernels. Guess what happens to be a main output product of Corn? HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP. And lets just say that you can tell by the physique of the average American that there is no shortage of supply of that particular sweetener, or most others. I highly doubt that watermelon producers could make a dent in THAT market.

      Those in the know would agree that 20% waste is stunning, but in many cases unfortunately they'd say it was a stunningly GOOD outcome.

  15. Just plow then into the ground by geekoid · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    to be used with the next crop.

    Converting food land to bio-fuels is a horrible waste of time and money.
    There isn't enough land to come close to demand.

    State laying industrial solar power in non farming area.
    Do it fast, get it done. we can power the nation from that.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Just plow then into the ground by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      I agree. We could build solar power in the southwest, and nuclear plants in other areas where land use or weather is an issue and completely replace all our use of fossil fuels. Except that grid power really isn't a replacement for oil used in mobile vehicles.

      To power mobile energy use we would need a better way to transfer grid power to vehicles. For ocean going vessels, the nuclear plants used by the military could be adapted for civilian use. Trains could be grid bound relatively easily. Cars can be battery powered for short distances, but would be only be effective with current technology if they could be charged from the grid while moving. We really don't have a way to replace fossil/bio fuel for aircraft.

    2. Re:Just plow then into the ground by JCSoRocks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Good cropland is scarce enough as it is. Urban areas are constantly expanding and turning cropland into cityscape. It doesn't make much sense to hasten this trend by effectively converting space for growing food into space for fueling our vehicles.

      I swear, the only reason we continue to see these ridiculous schemes is because the fuel companies don't want to see everything go electric. It won't be long before battery technology catches up and allows us to drive a reasonable distance on a charge. (Or we could just take advantage of the various swappable battery technologies that have already been developed for cars.)

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
    3. Re:Just plow then into the ground by KraftDinner · · Score: 1

      No love for safe and reliable nuclear energy?

    4. Re:Just plow then into the ground by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      We don't have the power infrastructure to support moving that power around. You're talking about a mult-trillion dollar upgrade to our infrastructure for that to be viable. It's the exact reason that "electric cars" are currently not even a remotely realistic solution to the oil problem.

    5. Re:Just plow then into the ground by FCAdcock · · Score: 1

      Multi-Tillion is easy. It sounds like a troll, but it's a good idea.

      Put off Obamacare for the next decade or three. Take that money and throw at the power grid/AE sources. When that is up and running we'll be saving enough money on foreign oil and power bills that we can afford health care.

      --
      --Forest C. Adcock--
    6. Re:Just plow then into the ground by bishop32x · · Score: 1

      There's currently some good work being done to develop an algae based jet fuel. Also what about wind?

    7. Re:Just plow then into the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I swear, the only reason we continue to see these ridiculous schemes is because the fuel companies don't want to see everything go electric.

      But does biofuel relate to flexfuel which might as well be a fuel insensitive car (generator + batteries + electric motor)? Why "fuel" companies? I understand "oil" companies. Gas or diesel - real gas or real diesal not bio-this or ethanol-added-that - is a great add-on to electric. A twenty gallon tank weighs about the same as an adult (160 lbs plus the tank weight) and gives a range of 200-800 miles. I expect my next car to both plug in and go 500 miles without charge. That means fuel and the best way to do that has been known for decades.

    8. Re:Just plow then into the ground by plastbox · · Score: 1

      Finally, someone brings up the algae! The little buggers contain a lot of oil, can grow in virtually any environment, they live short lives and are hugely numerous and thus adapt quickly to become even more prolific. Squeeze the juice (or rather, oil) out of them, add a few chemicals to the mix, let it simmer and voila! Biodiesel!

      This is where I say "yeah, I exaggerated how easy it is" but really, that is pretty much all there is. Why aren't companies buying huge swaths of barren, otherwise useless land to grow algae already?

    9. Re:Just plow then into the ground by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Algae has potential, but its in development. Solar and nuclear power are ready now and proven. Wind power is inadequately reliably to provide base load power to the grid. And with the rise of modern piracy and the trend towards rapid delivery, sailing ships probably won't be making a comeback any time soon.

    10. Re:Just plow then into the ground by WebCowboy · · Score: 1

      Good cropland is scarce enough as it is.

      That is incorrect. Farmland is plentiful. We can already produce far more calories of food than we need to survive--like TWICE as many. The problem is efficiency and distribution and politics. Whoever tells you there is a shortage of farmland is LYING.

      It doesn't make much sense to hasten this trend by effectively converting space for growing food into space for fueling our vehicles.

      You didn't even read the article SUMMARY did you? THEYA RE USING WASTE PRODUCTS...stuff farmers cannot sell in this case. THEY DO NOT PROPOSE TO USE ANY MORE LAND THAN THEY ALREADY ARE. There are two ways to increase efficiency of farmland:
      * get more people to buy local - the less distance food has to travel the less spoilage, damage, wasted fuel, etc.
      * USE WASTED PRODUCTION MORE WISELY--stop throwing away. REDUCE what you throw away, REUSE what you can and RECYCLE what you cannot use. What is wrong with RECYCLING wasted crop products into fuels that can be used for something else beneficial?

      It won't be long before battery technology catches up and allows us to drive a reasonable distance on a charge.

      It takes a LOT of energy to make these batteries...then you have to keep them charged. Where does the electricity come from? Can't come all from solar, nobody wants a new nuclear plant in their back yard...why can't the electricity come from biofuels? Whether burned or used chemically as in fuel cells?

      There isn't a problem with biofuel technology it is just that it is being mis-applied. And it isn't "fuel companies" (the biggest of which are oil companies--they'd NOT want to see biofuels succeed) pressig for the use of ethanol. It is the corn growing lobby that is pushing for ethanol, which is why it emerged ahead of things like this watermelon scheme or algae-based biodiesel...corn-states buying congressional votes for politicians. Bad policy but doesn't make biofuel technology itself bad--the concept should still be pursued...just in a different way.

  16. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by geekoid · · Score: 1

    it is green in that the carbon is reabsorbed with the next crop.
    Opposed to releasing carbon that's been underground for millions of years.

    Of course, there isn't enough crop land for these kinds of bio-fuels to be successful.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  17. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Near as I could tell, the only people who claimed that corn ethanol was actually a good idea were corn growers and any politicians who needed votes out in corn country.(and anybody involved with whiskey, of course; but they aren't wrong)

  18. No to fruit, yes to nuclear! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Another site...

    From another article:
    "Retailers rejects 360,000 tons of âoesubstandardâ fruit annually in America alone they could be used as an economical way to make fuel."

    How much, in terms of fuel and resources, does it take to produce these reject, substandard fruits?

    "The waste from US growers could produce nearly two million gallons (nine million litres) of biofuel per year."

    We use, what, 70 billion gallons per year of motor gasoline?

    "Dr Wayne Fish, who led the team, found that 50 per cent of the fruit was fermentable into ethanol which could provide valuable fuel."

    What percentage of nuclear material can be used to provide valuable fuel? I'm sure the number is quite high. And it's just sitting there. That's what it's there for! It wants us to use it! We don't have to use energy to make another product, only to use more energy to make another product, only to convert the negligible amounts of waste into a fuel product!

    "The study, published in the journal Biotechnology for Biofuels, discovered that watermelons could produce around 20 gallons of fuel per acre from fruit that otherwise would go to waste."

    How many gallons of fuel could be saved by upgrading the efficiency of farmland use?

    Watermelons are fresh, delicious fruit. They're for eating, not for fueling your vehicles.

    1. Re:No to fruit, yes to nuclear! by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The answer, as always, is to do a bit more research until civilian nuclear power is viable. It is getting close with a full scale pebble bed prototype in China, an accelerated thorium prototype looking like it will be built in India, and Hyperion power systems in the USA taking Los Alamos small military reactor work and turning into something that can be used for electricity production. The "nuclear now" cries are from the vendors of dinosaur plants that will give you electricity at vast ongoing expense from the taxpayer.
      We've had nothing but thirty years of bullshit from those people that will just sell you TMI painted green (because they have been doing no development since) and will tell you lies about reprocessing that have not applied since Ford's Presidency. There's no point rushing into a trap since it will take around a decade to build a large nuclear power plant anyway, by which time some of the newer technologies relying on smaller unit sizes may be ready and might even have projects the same size finished. With the dinosaur designs there is likely to be a fuel shortage within a few years if we build a lot of them. More recent options are not so fussy with fuel so will not hit that problem.

  19. Alcohol fuel is unsuitable for present engine tech by erroneus · · Score: 0

    Why are people persisting in this line of research without addressing the problem of engine destruction? The Gasahol we are currently burning is shortening the life span of all our gasoline engines due to the properties of alcohol and how it reacts with the materials in the fuel and exhaust systems. Either we figure out a better, more compatible engine or we figure out how to counter the effects that alcohol has on our engines. But this current alcohol research is rather detrimental to our engines as we consumers are literally helpless without options to choose fuel without alcohol in it. (Texas was trying to have itself exempted from that policy but to no avail...damnit)

  20. Compared to what alternatives? by RobinEggs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    TFA sticks with the "economically viable" phrase and doesn't offer any numbers or details.

    Plenty of things, including oil sands, arctic natural gas, and burning baby seal blubber can be "economically viable" in certain situations, but only when more traditional sources of crude oil reach a certain market price. This article doesn't even conjecture about when and where watermelon fuel could be "economically viable" compared to crude oil, and comparison with crude oil marks the only concrete method of making the comparison.

    Naturally, using watermelons you've already grown for fuel might be viable at a pretty low return, compared with letting them rot, but the article doesn't prove that, either.

    1. Re:Compared to what alternatives? by myowntrueself · · Score: 2, Funny

      and burning baby seal blubber

      The industrialised operations for harvesting baby seal blubber would be a sight to behold!

      Great icebreakers with huge scoops on the front ploughing through the pack ice slurping up the baby seals and turning them into bio-fuel. Awesome image there!

      Ah for the good old days... Me and my girl, seal clubbing. Me and my girl, out on the ice.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  21. Watermelon as a biofuel. by Mr.Fork · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, ANY food source used as a bio-fuel is a terrible idea. Using food sources for bio-fuels has resulted in people STARVING to death in developing nations. Why can't these intelligent scientists see this? Even if it's only for spoils of watermelon crops, the fine line between selling the entire source for fuel vs food will become invisible - just as it happened for corn and wheat.

    It took a global economic meltdown to correct food prices to help reset this stupidity. But it seems these morons (lets call a spade a spade) forgot this fact. All it takes is for watermelons to get expensive, and in poorer countries, you'll have the farmers selling their entire crops to bio-fuel companies.

    --
    Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. - Peter F. Drucker
    1. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your argument is true only because the system is set up the way it is. Capitalism isn't a totally natural state of affairs is a man made system, if man made it man should be able to control it. If he can't control it to achieve his goals it's a shitty system.

      The world isn't really lacking food you know.

    2. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      What makes you think that the scientists are ignorant, rather than just uncaring?

      Once you delve into the realm of indirect effects(much less considering your activities in light of what you could do charitably for the same money), a huge number of common day-to-day activities involve the relentless fucking-over of anonymous poor people that you can't see. There are a relatively few people who are really, genuinely consumed by this fact, a lot more who are modestly bothered by it; but don't actually act on that basis very much, and more still who don't think about it, or consider it to be a part of the natural order of things.

    3. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      Actually, what is happening is that a lot of the acres of food-land that are lost to biofuels, are being replaced by burning down rain forests. The smoke from the burning rain forests more than make up for any reduction in greenhouse gases.

      Now, they are apparently looking at more food-crops to convert to burning rain forests.

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    4. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Using food sources for bio-fuels has resulted in people STARVING to death in developing nations. Why can't these intelligent scientists see this?

      Perhaps because these intelligent scientists are intelligent enough to know that this is not true?

      Anyway, this idea is about using waste biomass for fuel.

      All it takes is for watermelons to get expensive, and in poorer countries, you'll have the farmers selling their entire crops to bio-fuel companies.

      And since no culture relies on watermelons as a basic sustenance crop, the problem with this is what, exactly?

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    5. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by eleuthero · · Score: 1
      The distinction here is that as far as I know, watermelons are a staple food crop... nowhere... Corn was and continues to be a staple food in many parts of the world, including Mexico--who knows but what if Americans hadn't had their little "biofuel" craze, we wouldn't have what some would call a civil war going on just south of us.

      I think watermelon excess crop use is a great idea--especially if restrictions are made on which watermelons can be used. All this said, it would seem the work on using sugars locked in more complex systems such as cellulose has longer term and greater potential -- then we can still eat the corn and then use the husk to power our lights (or what have you).

    6. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by yincrash · · Score: 1

      I agree with the first two points, but the third point is valid because if watermelon crops REPLACE sustenance crops for use in biofuel, then you get the same problem.

    7. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by Mr.Fork · · Score: 2, Informative

      That article, written Gal Luft, BTW, works for the Institute for the Analysis of Global Security, which by the way, worked/advised the Bush administration. Of course he would be advocate that biofuel and food prices are a myth - the members of this group are also pro-biofuel consortium - which may I ask, are you?

      Thank goodness for Muckety.

      --
      Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. - Peter F. Drucker
    8. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by Mr.Fork · · Score: 2, Informative

      My goodness, my reply wasn't flamebait - it was stating facts. (There is someone trying to hide facts from the public.) I'll go further.

      This institution is also indirectly connected to - some of its members are also part of the same group. It's related to the same past administration.

      --
      Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. - Peter F. Drucker
    9. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by nolifetillpleather · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Pretty sure it's better to just bury those unused watermelons back under next season's crop. More compost means less fertilizer. Fertilizer comes from natural gas. If you want to use natural gas to move your car, you can just get a car that runs on natural gas. You don't have to convert it into watermelons first.

    10. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      And since no culture relies on watermelons as a basic sustenance crop, the problem with this is what, exactly?

      The farmers start growing 96% watermelons, and 4% staple crops (to sustain themselves), in anticipation of selling, due to the lucrative pricing of wtaermelons at market.

      The result is there are plenty of watermelons, but they won't have any of the staple crop to take to market.

    11. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Using food sources for bio-fuels has resulted in people STARVING to death in developing nations.

      A butterfly flapping its wings results in people starving to death somewhere in the world...

      Any change in the status quo is going to have consequences. If we were to switch to solar-powered electric cars, there'd be people starving in Saudi Arabia, impoverised former coal miners, etc.

      That doesn't mean we should never change ANYTHING.

      In fact, low-priced food is one of the big criticisms of the US... 3rd world countries get it so cheap that local farmers can't compete, and have no way to make a living... Reversing this trend, even if traumatic at first, is likely to become a boon to these same 3rd world countries.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    12. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Food use for fuel is not the reason people are starving. There is more than enough food to go around in this world, people are starving in many cases because they can not safely grow their own or be supplied safely due to civil war and related problems, and in other cases simply because they are too poor to afford it.

      Fuel food is done in the US and Europe, both already food exporters.

    13. Re:Watermelon as a biofuel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using food sources for bio-fuels has resulted in people STARVING to death in developing nations.

      Plain wrong. Biofuels generates lots of employment, chemical and biological technology, machinery production, trading, taxes. Biofuels make the life of the poor people much better in the developing nations. And the food supplies grows as there is a bigger demand from the poor people which before couldn't afford them. This is what i see in Brazil after 30 years of sugar cane for ethanol production. Sugar has never been so cheap. Chicken has never been so cheap. All kinds off food are cheaper now after the big agricultural revolution introduced by the ethanol as fuel. The ethanol producing regions are lands of prosperity.

      Americans and Europeans think of biofuels vs food because their agriculture is vastly subsidised. In poor countries agriculture is good business without government money so they grow whatever makes a profit be it biofuel, food or both.

  22. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

    It WAS green, at one time! ;)

  23. Re:Alcohol fuel is unsuitable for present engine t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look on the bright side, you can always secede.

    America needs a good buffer to quell illegal immigration from Mexico; just don't try sneaking your Texan ass back into the United States, you god damn foreigner!

  24. Water problem! by VincenzoRomano · · Score: 1

    Do those professors know how much water it's needed to grow watermelons?

    --
    Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
    For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
    1. Re:Water problem! by maxume · · Score: 3, Informative

      They aren't suggesting growing more watermelons, they are suggesting that the watermelons that are presently left in the field to rot could instead be harvested and sent to a distillery.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Water problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the energy spent is worth the results. Nice

    3. Re:Water problem! by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 1

      Earlier posters already commented on the low price for "B grade product", to the point where shipping costs are a significant or overwhelming factor.

      It seems likely that the only way for this to be economical is for the farmer to be the one doing the processing. At which point you may (or may not) also lose economies of scale.

    4. Re:Water problem! by maxume · · Score: 1

      Yeah, who knows. The abstract for the research article also mentions lycopene extraction, so the economics may be more involved:

      http://www.biotechnologyforbiofuels.com/content/2/1/18

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  25. Is it a good idea to use food? by pembo13 · · Score: 1

    Is it a good idea to use food pre-consumption as a serious fuel? There are quite a lot of people who would like food to eat, more so than fuel vehicle or even electricity.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    1. Re:Is it a good idea to use food? by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Is it a good idea to use food pre-consumption as a serious fuel?

      Should use food post-consumption as biofuel.

      Turning human excrement into biofuel would be fantastic.

      It might even encourage megacorporations to feed the hungry. So that their poop can be harvested and turned into fuel to be sold to the western industrialised world at a huge mark-up.

      This would be delicious irony. Well, ok, not delicious but stinky...

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    2. Re:Is it a good idea to use food? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1, Troll

      Your idea may sound right, but I don't give a crap.

    3. Re:Is it a good idea to use food? by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Your idea may sound right, but I don't give a crap.

      Yeah good luck with that when the oil companies come round with a hosepipe and an oil tanker and ask you to bend over.

      They'll be 'tapping' into the enema market around the world -- you mark my words!!!!!

      It'll be "Shell oil is made from feeeeceeeeesssss!!!!! Feces I tell you!!!!".

      (little play on the ending of Soylent Green there).

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    4. Re:Is it a good idea to use food? by Provocateur · · Score: 1

      'little play on the...'

      Aw come on! More than half o this crowd would know, without you pointing *that* out, Mr. Comic Book Guy. Yes, I'd recognize that voice anywhere...

      And not a joke about a biouelf cluster in sight...

      --
      WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  26. oh noes! by bigmaddog · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is all wonderful, us rich people can continue to drive GMC Yukons or whatever, except it has the same problems as using other foodstuffs for fuel. Oh, sure, you can use the 20% bad watermelons for it, but once watermelon->fuel processing capacity exists, market prices will dictate whether the 80% of good melons go to the grocery store or to the melon refinery, and when the global economy bounces back and fuel prices go up, it'll be just one more thing putting pressure on the food supply. Before anyone says "oh, but watermelons can't be a large part of the global food supply," what happens with cash crops is they end up more valuable than food crops (hence the name) and displace them in the fields.

    And so this whole thing is barking up the wrong tree - the fuel is alternative, but it sure isn't sustainable, just one more squeeze on substance farmers someplace we don't give a damn about.

    --

    Even as you read this, your pants are strangling your loins! Aaa!

    1. Re:oh noes! by maxume · · Score: 1

      You mean subsistence farmers (well, probably, maybe you mean growers of various plants that drugs are refined from). Displacing first-world food crops doesn't really effect them much (maybe it gives them better prices at market for any meager leftovers they have, subsistence farming actually means living off the crops...), it effects the millions of poor who do not grow their own food.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:oh noes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "problem" isn't using food for fuel -- it's using money for fuel. You begin to track this with the notion that watermelons for fuel (drawing in lots of cash) will displace $OTHER_CROP for food (drawing less cash), but don't follow it all the way. It doesn't matter -- scarce resources (land, labor, chemicals, water -- you name it) will be allocated to luxuries instead of food whenever the hungry people are too poor to make food production worthwhile.

      While it's certainly an unpleasant fact, I only know of one workable solution: philanthropy. Those rich enough to pay for increased food production can buy food and distribute it to those who need it, but can't afford it, or send the money directly to the poor so they can afford food prices Yes, it's fraught with problems, especially since much poverty is politically caused, and the political issues are likely to further complicate/obstruct the already difficult issue of efficient distribution to the genuinely needy. But it works a hell of a lot better than letting those same politicians dictate (with direct regulations) or influence (with subsidies) resource allocations.

    3. Re:oh noes! by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      market prices will dictate whether the 80% of good melons go to the grocery store or to the melon refinery

      More likely subsidies will dictate their use. Corn would not be used if it wasn't a heavily subsidized way to get votes (it takes more energy to create a gallon of corn-ethanol that you get from using it). You will never see those subsidies go away, because that is how the politions are buying the farmers votes. For every $1 you spend on ethenol, the government gives away something like $30.

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
  27. Re:Alcohol fuel is unsuitable for present engine t by megamerican · · Score: 1

    Or maybe Congress could respect the 10th amendment. I know that's a lot to ask.

    --
    If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
  28. Re:Alcohol fuel is unsuitable for present engine t by snspdaarf · · Score: 1

    What is this based on? I currently own five cars, all of them have over 100k miles on them. Some bought used, some bought new, and the only problem I have had was with the used cars that came out of a non-gasohol area needing frequent fuel filter changes. I admit that if I forgot to do this it killed the in-tank fuel pump, but that was something I knew would happen, I just forgot about the needed maintenance. I have seen no evidence of "engine destruction." I have not heard about any engine destruction, with the exception of a news story last year where a small engine mechanic said that older engines had trouble with the ethanol fuel mix. Well, if the fuel system has neoprene parts, it will get attacked by the ethanol. None of my yard machines has had a fuel problem, and a friend with a landscape company has not had any fuel issues either.

    --
    Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
  29. Actaully, we can not by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Look, numerous studies have been done and they show over and over that Solar can NOT provide everything. Nor, can wind and solar.

    A serious question to you. I am a backer of AE, but I look at the simple fact that even if we built all the wind as fast we could AND all the solar PV that we could, it would still take us over a decade to make a real dent. So, it is PLAINLY OBVIOUS that this can NOT be the only solution. Yet, ppl like yourself REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE that. Why? Seriously, why? Also, Solar PV is THE MOST EXPENSIVE solution that we can do at this time. In fact, it will remain that way for no less than 5 years, and more likely for another decade. So, why are you pushing this?

    Why not push Solar Thermal, Geo-thermal, and more nukes? Solar Thermal AND geo-thermal are all capable of generating electricity at a price equal or lower than Natural Gas TODAY. And both are about to go below Coal prices. Yet, ppl like yourself do not push it.

    In addition, if you are concerned about CO2 and/or oil imports, then you HAVE to back Nukes as well as fast development of Algae for bio-fuels. The reason for Algae is that it allows us to replace oil for the majority of its use. And there are PLENTY of places that oil is required. For starters, Aviation. But, why do ppl like you oppose all these things and just push the WORST alternative. In fact, at this moment, the IMPOSSIBLE address. Why not accept that we need far more than s

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Actaully, we can not by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      He said solar, he didn't specify PV vs thermal. I would err on the side of sanity and assume he intended solar thermal for mass energy production.

    2. Re:Actaully, we can not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your comment as to 10 years to make a dent is actually quite optimistic, You are not factoring population growth alas energy requirement will be on the up.

  30. And whose going to pick the seeds? by 101010_or_0x2A · · Score: 3, Funny

    The queues are long enough at the gas station already without having to wait for people to get EVERY LITTLE SEED out before pumping their cars full..

  31. Re:Alcohol fuel is unsuitable for present engine t by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    Good. When the gas engine dies maybe that SUV will be replaced with a vehicle that doesn't suck.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  32. what about a bean burrito? by nycguy · · Score: 1

    I can eat one of those and make biofuel from it at the same time.

  33. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Corn-based "Ethanol" actually produces more pollution through corn crops than conventional oil.

    No, it doesn't. Corn ethanol is a lousy choice for biofuels, influenced more by politics than science, but even it is energy-positive -- you get a reduction in CO2 pollution from it.

    --
    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood
  34. Easy... by denzacar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Have you ever held a fully grown watermelon?
    How about picked and loaded a truckfull of it, taken it to the market and then be told that you should either return a part of it cause they are bellow the buy-off quality or that you will be paid less for those watermelons, again on account of lower quality?

    It is WAY cheaper to do quality control before PICKING, and just grow more to cover for the statistics.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:Easy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever held a fully grown watermelon?

      I don't think *anyone* on slashdot has.

    2. Re:Easy... by pavon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, yeah, the buyer doesn't want to sort the things themselves, that's obvious. The parent is asking where the B-grade buyers are, given there is such a large amount of left over fruit. There are lots of crops that are sold in different quality lots.

  35. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Corn-based "Ethanol" actually produces more pollution through corn crops than conventional oil.

    No, it doesn't. Corn ethanol is a lousy choice for biofuels, influenced more by politics than science, but even it is energy-positive -- you get a reduction in CO2 pollution from it.

    You are disagreeing with a different statement than the one posted.

    The original statement was that corn-based ethanol produces more pollution than oil.

    Your (unsubstantiated and unreferenced) reply was that it produces less "CO2 pollution".

    There is more to pollution than just CO2.

  36. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by martas · · Score: 1

    forget about that! doesn't anyone here have a problem with using racist fuel?

  37. Re:Alcohol fuel is unsuitable for present engine t by brainboyz · · Score: 1

    Because other people should suffer reduced benefit/lifespan from products they've purchased because you don't agree with their decision. Riiight. Stop being an eco-dick; some people have good reason to own an SUV or large truck. For example, my truck stays parked except when I need to transport other vehicles or bulk items. I can usually make 1 trip in the truck @ 16mpg (regardless of weight), or I can make 4-5 trips in the car that normally has a 30mpg rating which drops to about 20 when heavily loaded. Blind hatred is just as pathetic as stupidity.

  38. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And they don't take into account the extra CO2 produced to move Ethanol around, instead of not being made at all. You know, all those extra tanker trucks burn owls for fuel to take ethanol from it's refiner to the gas refinery to be mixed. And the fact that Ethanol is not efficient in most cars, requiring more fuel to be burned, so you actually need to burn MORE "clean" fuel than before, which includes burning MORE "dirty" fuel in the processes.

    And the fact that, by burning more fuel, you will require said tanker trucks to be driven more to meet the extra demand, stop at gas stations more, using pumps, that take energy.... the "trickle down" effect is very small in many cases but multiplied by millions creates noticeably more pollution. Not even counting all the extra factories built that all pollute more than not having them at all and running the current refiners a little more as each of those factories have electricity use for things like lights, employee vending machines, officer computers, etc. All stuff that would not have been needed if ethanol was not mandated.

    Yes, corn ethanol is MUCH worse than without it. I didn't even get into the "Unintended consequences" like rising food prices, etc.

  39. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Exactly. Iowa's early primary ensures that any canidate trying to raise more money has to take the pledge to support ethanol as a biofuel. If they point out how wastefull and pointless it's been, they'll have a weak showing there, and their campaign contributions will take a hit. Plus no congressman with eyes on the presidency would be willing to vote against corn for the same reasons.

    Ethanol subsidies have been a huge waste, the money is all going to ADM, which is the last company we should be giving it to.

    That wiki page also has some interesting stats on the taxes. "every $1 of profits earned by its ethanol operation costs taxpayers $30." And we're STILL dependant on oil. It's not even that they take corporate welfare, I'd be mad enough just based off how lousy an investment that is.

  40. Meh by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    Call me when they can run cars with Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters.

    1. Re:Meh by jd2112 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's like having your cylinder head smashed in by a slice of lemon wrapped around a large gold brick.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
  41. Why do we continually overlook the obvious? by i_want_you_to_throw_ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Although watermelons and corn can make biofuels: I offer you a much better alternative: Kudzu vine. It's already been synthesized into kudzuhol Kudzu grows up to a foot a day, it's the vine that ate the south. It just seems a waste to convert perfectly good food to biofuel.

    1. Re:Why do we continually overlook the obvious? by OwMyBrain · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm very glad you pointed this out! Ever hear the expression that if you plant kudzu in the back yard, it'll beat you to the porch? This stuff is all over the place hear in Georgia, and it grows so thick that it can suffocate trees. People would probably consider it a great service if someone were to come and remove it. What's better is that it grows all along the highways, not on farm land that should much rather be used for food crops.

      Why are we wasting time and energy (literally) on food crops as fuel when we can make it out of weeds? Another good example of this is
      switchgrass.

      I'd be interested to see a company that offers landscapingl services which in turn and sells weeds/yard refuse as biofuel fodder.

    2. Re:Why do we continually overlook the obvious? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you REALLY want the SOUTH to become a major economic force again?

  42. Watermelon wine tastes TERRIBLE! by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    I can attest first hand. I've made wine out of many odd things and watermelon is by far the worst. Just don't. It tastes bad, it looks bad, it smells bad.

    If you're looking for an ambitious but possibly tasty wine making fruit try pomegranate instead but really if you just want something that will taste good use welch's 100% grape juice or cran/grape combo.

    1. Re:Watermelon wine tastes TERRIBLE! by Geist3 · · Score: 1

      Never tried making watermelon wine, but BANANA wine is weird in a bad way. Plum wine is excellent.

  43. Watermelon makes a great Viagra substitute too! by patmandu · · Score: 1

    First peanuts were good for everything, now this. Same idea, only bigger...and green...and red...and much juicer. It's truly the wonder fruit. See here

  44. Most corn is grown as livestock feed (Re:Duh) by bitemykarma · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The United States is, by far, the largest producer of corn in the world. Corn is grown on over 400,000 U.S. farms. In 2000, the U.S. produced almost ten billion bushels of the world's total 23 billion bushel crop. Corn grown for grain accounts for almost one quarter of the harvested crop acres in this country. Corn grown for silage accounts for about two percent of the total harvested cropland or about 6 million acres. The amount of land dedicated to corn silage production varies based on growing conditions. In years that produce weather unfavorable to high corn grain yields, corn can be "salvaged" by harvesting the entire plant as silage. According to the National Corn Growers Association, about eighty percent of all corn grown in the U.S. is consumed by domestic and overseas livestock, poultry, and fish production. The crop is fed as ground grain, silage, high-moisture, and high-oil corn. About 12% of the U.S. corn crop ends up in foods that are either consumed directly (e.g. corn chips) or indirectly (e.g. high fructose corn syrup). It also has a wide array of industrial uses including ethanol, a popular oxygenate in cleaner burning auto fuels.

    http://www.epa.gov/oecaagct/ag101/cropmajor.html

    1. Re:Most corn is grown as livestock feed (Re:Duh) by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      This doesn't mean there could be no better uses for the land, or the corn or whatever grown on it as animal fodder. When it comes to food production one needs much more land to produce 1 cal worth of meat (considering all the land needed to produce the food for the animal) than it is to produce 1 cal worth of bread for example.

  45. Great idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Feed all the food to the robots. Our society has progressed beyond the need for food.

  46. Leave my Melons Alone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They screwed corn prices up...leave the watermelons the hell alone!

    No fruit is better on the tongue and in the belly. Keep it there; not in a gas tank.

  47. Efficiency of making sugar from fruit by shadowblaster · · Score: 1

    Seems to me obtaining sugar from fruit is a highly inefficient process. I mean the plant have to grow all the infrastructure (root, stalk, leaves) that will end up being wasted anyway.

    Wouldn't it be easier to synthesize sugar from pythoplanktons. All you need is water, CO2 and sunlight.

    Better still it can be made into a rolling production line:
    1. Start a batch with water, add sugar synthesizing pythoplankton and expose to sunlight.
    2. After sufficient concentration of sugar is achieved, add fermenting bacteria and let the sugar ferment
    3. Extract ethanol.
    4. Repeat ad nauseum.

    Importantly, this process can be run all year long with no need to wait for harvest season. Also, there would be no competition for land for food growing.

  48. Why grow for fuel? by fortapocalypse · · Score: 1

    Growing will only deplete the remainder of the land we need for growing food. We need to build more nuclear power plants and reduce energy usage through education, legislation, and new technology. Worried about the waste? Why not use a huge catapult to eject it out of our orbit? We don't need to keep burying stuff. Let's launch it into space!

  49. Watermelon biofuel by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Rather than grow fields of the fruit for the purpose, the report suggests that farmers capitalize on the 20% of each annual watermelon crop that is left in the field because of surface blemishes or because they are misshapen."

    And what's the likelihood farmers are going sell watermelons for food if they can make more selling them for biofuel?

    Also TFA doesn't say how much ethanol an acre can produce. How does it compare to switchgrass, for instance?

    Falcon

  50. HEMP FOR VICTORY! HEMP FOR FUEL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cannabis is the only plant that really makes sense as far as BioFuel Ethanol.

    Ford had fields of cannabis that he used to make ethanol and parts for his car.

    Hemp was poised to be the FIRST Billion dollar crop in the United States, right before F'n prohibition.

    CaliforniaCannabisInitiative.org is the first initiative that will end prohibition, at least in California to start. Everyone is all riled up about the taxes it will generate when they're missing the whole point. There are JOBS and whole entire INDUSTRIES that will explode, once the restrictions are lifted on this wonderful plant.

    If you believe cannabis to be bad or feel that it should remain illegal, take a good long look at all the studies and research you've done on it to come up with that 'informed' opinion. Stop listening to the 90% of the population around you that were educated by commercials in print and on tv/radio and start listening to the patients and doctors that have actual experience.

    Thank you.

  51. Re:HEMP FOR VICTORY! HEMP FOR FUEL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Niggers spread AIDS.

  52. Maddness by spacefight · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Growing food for producing fuel is just mad. mad. mad.

  53. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by tritonman · · Score: 0

    I don't get why they want to keep taking food and burning it in engines when there are so many starving people.

  54. It's pre WW2 technology in action by dbIII · · Score: 1

    In my opinion it's the cellulose to ethanol technologies we should be concentration on to use stems, stalks or weeds instead of the sugar to ethanol fuels that were made successfully at industrial scales way back in WW2 when it was difficult to get enough oil. Turning food grown with petrochemically produced fertilizers into fuels is wrong on many levels even if it uses a loophole in common sense to put money in pockets. The USA would be better off just importing cheap Brazillian or (gasp, commies!) Cuban sugar or ethanol if we want to do it more efficiently. Cane, beet and a variety of other sugars are cheaper to produce and import than corn syrup - it's just the tariff protection for cane farmers that pushes the price up and ironicly let to the price of sugar being so high that the cane farmers lost most of their market to corn.

  55. Re:Alcohol fuel is unsuitable for present engine t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Meh. Nobody around here wears an engine out before they sell the car these days anyway -- maybe in Texas, where the car doesn't rust out from road salt, but around here, I'll take full power from a high-compression (or turbo-charged = variable compression) little engine running high-alcohol blends over the big, heavy, slow-revving engine that gets the same power (at worse efficiency) on gasoline any day.

  56. Why are you turning it into a racist issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How fucking reacist?!?! How dare you?!? What?? Do you think every fucking discussion on this site has to devolve into a nigger troll???

    Oh, oh, oh - pardon me. I thought you called it Jigaboo Juice.

  57. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

    Government wastes your money, news at 11. Seriously, what do you expect? Competent government? Next you will be telling me that people want the government to run their health care for them.

  58. I'm Impressed by Verdatum · · Score: 1

    At 147+ comments, I don't yet see a single horrible joke about Gallahger, or a retarded racist stereotype yet. Yes, there are the standard racists troll posts, but none making use of the obvious watermelon reference.

  59. I would think not. by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    You'd basically be making wine out of watermelon juice, and because watermelon doesn't seem to have much acidity or tannin to it, you'd get a very, very insipid beverage. Think weak vodka and water with a faint watermelon aroma. You could make it better by adding acid blend (typically a mixture of malic, tartaric, and citric acids) and grape tannin... but unless I had a source of free watermelons, I doubt I'd bother.

  60. Yes, but... by sean.peters · · Score: 1

    ... how much watermelon is really grown in the US? Even if you used all of the leftover 20%, I doubt you'd make much of a dent in our fuel supply requirement. And given that it costs rather a lot of money to make a distilling plant, I can't see how you'd recover your costs. I just don't see leftover watermelon as a very important source of energy in any realistic scenario.

    1. Re:Yes, but... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Maybe not an important source though it is a "free" sources. You're using something that you get as a side product, that normally goes to waste, and that with a little extra effort can be harvested and put to good use. I can imagine this will also apply to many other fruits (generally high in sugar). It is of course not a complete solution, but it may be one of 100 partial solutions that together form a complete solution.

  61. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    First of all, the mechanism and scale of the waste is noteworthy, this is pork that's vying with military contracts for sheer size. Some waste is inevitable, not this much. Second, this isn't a case of simple government waste, this is a case of a private corporation wasting my taxes. I'd say this is "Ridiculous primary system aligned perfectly to help government and private industry waste your money."

    The biggest wastes of taxpayer money aren't government-only, they're when the government teams up with private companies. Fiscal conservatives love to point out government waste, but ignore the more egregious examples with private industry. I wonder if it's because it implies there is no perfect financial solution, or if it's because it's an argument against defense spending and medicare.

  62. Re:As long as we don't claim it to be the solution by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

    I wonder if it's because it implies there is no perfect financial solution,

    I think that this is necessarily true. People are not perfect and therefore any system created by people for the governance of people is bound to be imperfect. However, I also know that some solutions are more perfect than others and ever bigger government is not my idea of the right direction.

    or if it's because it's an argument against defense spending and medicare.

    Some spending on defense is unfortunately necessary because, as I stated previously, people are imperfect and the world is full of violent people who will kill you and take your property by force. So some resources must be spent to prevent the barbarians from coming over the proverbial hills seeking loot and pillage. As I have said, I view defense as a very necessary evil because without it nothing else matters because we will all be either dead or enslaved (as recorded history so amply demonstrates). I view health care in general and medicare in particular as a much less defensible (pardon the pun) expenditures of taxes. I would like to see more efficient spending in defense too (I think we spend too much for what we get) and even though that is highly unlikely, hence my original statement concerning government waste, I am not prepared to go the full on anarcho-capitalist route and dispense with centralized government entirely. The only reasonable and feasible course then is minimization and I fail to see how expanding the government massively, as our current President Obama is doing more rapidly than any other president since FDR, will lead us all to a good end.

  63. Why watermelon? by Terrorwrist · · Score: 0

    Why bother using watermelon juice to power our transportation, when urine can power any vehicle (http://www.ecofriend.org/entry/eco-tech-hydrogen-fuel-from-urine-to-power-cars-tomorrow). I could drink all that delicious red yummy watermelon, and piss in my gas tank, and off I go. Now that's what I call ecofriendly.

  64. We should be making fuel from all our food waste. by WebCowboy · · Score: 1

    Ploughing waste back into the land or leaving it to decompose is hardly wasting anything - it's a natural fertiliser and reduces the need for less sustainable artificial fertilizers

    I'm not sure why this is the case, but a great many /.ers and self-proclaimed environmentalists in general, reflexively dismiss anything to do with biofuel technology as if it is somehow even worse for the environment than, say, deep-water drilling, open-pit mining for coal and bitumen sands, handling nuclear waste, etc. Heaven forbid we think of using ethanol as a fuel--we'd have to mow down the rest of the rainforest to plant sugar cane and hoard all the corn from starving Africans to power our SUVs!

    There is a lot of misinformation about biofuel technology, and I would not be surprised in the slightest if most of it is based on faulty science or is even outright lies. I read a study once on how inefficient corn ethanol production is, and it turns out that the study was completely faulty--they included the energy it took to build the ethanol "refinery" itself as part of the energy production (as well as other capital costs like building more tractors, silos, etc), then held that number up to well known figures on what it takes to produce a barrel of oil--except that the latter only included actual energy production costs, not the cost in energy to build drilling platforms, refineries,etc. So they published incorrect, very misleading estimates about corn ethanol. Truth be told, growing corn specifically to produce fuel is not even close to the best biofuel strategy, but in terms of production efficiency it is maybe on the order of 1/2 as efficient as conventional fuels rather than what faulty estimates originally stated (those critics used this kind of faulty estimate to conclude corn ethanol wss barely break-even--that you barely got enough energy out of using the ethanol fuel to make up for the energy expended to produce it--turns out they were wrong by more than an order of magnitude if their data was properly interpreted).

    As I said, corn ethanol is a poor choice for use as biofuel, probably focused on more because of effective political lobbying than effective science. HOWEVER, biofuel technology in general is incredibly important in terms of making the world more sustainable. This "watermelon solution" is a perfect example. "Greenies" endlessly carp on how biofuels would result in food shortages, all the while ignoring the fact that over most of the industrial world we produce something like 150% of the food consumed by our population...and that counts what makes it to retail only--if you take into account what is thrown away as scrap as stock is rotated out of stores or what is tossed from our kitchens we are lucky if we actually eat much more than HALF the food we produce. Where does almost all of it go? INTO LANDFILLS.

    THAT is a complete waste of potential energy right there. Food that is buried deep in landfills decomposes VERY slowly in the anaerobic environment of a landfill. "biodegradable" foodscraps can be recognisable for a few YEARS after their disposal, and as they slowly decompose they emit a greenhouse gas FAR WORSE than CO2--that being CH4. CH4--natural gas-- is a good candidate for biofuel of course, and some landfills capture what they can for electricity generation, but the process is far less efficient than it could be--more CH4 remains as emissions than is collected.

    Your contention that ploughing waste back into the ground is not waste because it is fertiliser is actually false. Plants cannot take in nutrients directly from the waste of a previous crop, save perhaps any water it retains. Sugars must be broken down. Cellulose in plant fibres have no nutritional value to a plant intil they break down. To wait for the old chaff/straw/scraps to break down would require significantly more fallowing than farmers would like, thus the reason for additional tilling, harrowing, burning or removal of old crop material, etc. With fru

  65. you are ignorant about farming by WebCowboy · · Score: 1

    You can't till ALL your crop waste into the ground year after year. It has to be composted or it will hurt yields. If you composted it all in-field you'd have to fallow every other year, and that would mean having to use far more land to produce the same amount of food. A certain amount of crop debris is harmless or even beneficial, but if it is present in excess and is not managed with some combination of crop rotation, fallowing, and tilling can actually be HARMFUL to crop yields.

    You cant leave fallen fruit on or near ground surface for other reasons--crop diseases (blights, insects, bacteria, etc) would be a problem especially because of the sugar content of the rotting fruit. At best this reduces yield, at worst can contaminate food supply with substances harmful to humans.

    Converting food land to bio-fuels is a horrible waste of time and money.

    Not making best use of the crops WE ALREADY GROW ON THIS LAND is probably even worse. You didn't even read the summary, you just saw "biofuels" and started spouting off. This solution USES ZERO EXTRA LAND to produce fuel. Biofuels needn't replace ALL fuel production--they can be a good way to make use of what is wasted today.

    State laying industrial solar power in non farming area.

    Don't be a dummy...where do you think plants get their energy from...THE SUN...leaves are nature's little solar panels. Put man-made solar panels in the desert..that's great...but why not make use of all the energy we can from what is collected from crops that is wasted today?

    Do it fast, get it done. we can power the nation from that.

    we can probablly make biofuel from the juices of wasted fruit crops just as fast or faster than from solar panels. Why not do both?