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Opera 10.0 Released
neonsignal writes "Opera 10 has been released. It now supports rich text email, the 'turbo' Opera proxy server feature, some HTML 5 support, XML 'pretty printing,' extra skinning features, and a 100/100 score in the Acid3 test. There has been no official announcement as yet."
They might not have announced it, but if i click "check for updates", i get that version 10.0 is available...
I am finding it to be a lot snappier than firefox and chrome. Does opera use the same code base for their mobile and desktop browsers? That may explain the low memory and CPU usage.
It is a joke of a browser. Just use the industry standard: Internet Explorer. It's fast and extremely secure.
Can it correctly render Slashdot now? Seems like an obvious enough test to me... but O9 can't seem to do it out of the box.
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
But does it run on Linux?
It was released for all Windows, Mac OS and Linux.
Opera has always been my favourite browser. It has pretty much everything packed in that you want and need, and still its really lightweight and smooth. Even firefox doesn't get close, a lot of times it feels quite non-smooth. Responsiveness from the GUI and things like scrolling does *a lot*. And its consistent on every platform, and always has been *the browser* to push new things on browsers. Mouse gestures, speed dial, advanced browsers on Wii/Mobile phones etc.
The old "Next" page also has been updated with little bit of information about 10.10, which will include Opera Unite. So its not included in this version yet.
Another interesting thing about Opera is that its marketshare on CIS countries is more than IE/FF/Other browsers. Are they just technically more aware or whats the cause for that?
Opera 10 final was announced on twitter over 6 hours ago. http://twitter.com/opera
Am I the only one who realizes that the #/100 on the ACID3 test is not the number of tests completed and that it isn't a score? It should be the number of tests -started-. Like the ACID1 and ACID2 tests, it's either correct or it isn't.
I use Opera all the time, but it has issues printing a lot of stuff. Of course it always had is issues rendering many pages too. The UI is the reason I use it though. It is far and away better than the rest.
I've never quite understood why the best browser has the lowest market share... I have been using Opera as my main browser for about 2 years, and I believe that once you get used to it you can never go back..
Sorry dude, it's just you.
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
Why does a WEB BROWSER need to support rich text email?
My example: http://echo.nextapp.com/content/test/operacss/
The consequences get a bit more catastrophic with applications with larger quantities of nested DIVs. Things really start to break when you start measuring using Element.offsetHeight.
Apologies for posting it here...again...but I'm tired of replying to users who ask "why does component X not render properly in Opera, it passes Acid3 thus something must be wrong with the component."
I'm sure both Opera users are ecstatic ;)
If you mean Java, Flash etc. as normally meant by that then yes.
If you mean if it's a DIY framework of a browser that you'll need/want to assemble with a bunch of extensions, no. Certain parts of vanilla Firefox I think suck bigtime, like the download manager. I guess the only reason they get away with it, is because they tell people to install one of the many download manager extensions.
Who cares? I guess everyone that wants a good browser by doing "sudo apt-get install [browser]" and not spend time finding plugins on every machine. Getting one good bundled package in Opera is simply more convienient. I don't need my browser to be another little microcosmos of package management.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I don't like it much, but I use it on a daily basis, because it is so light on system resources. (Firefox tends to bring this near obsolete POS win2000 system I have to use at work to it's knees, and IE6 well... let's not go there.)
That's what I used to think. Then I decided to lighten up a bit, and give it a shot. Then I realised I shouldn't have. Opera is very incompatible, even compared to Konqueror.
1. Is it possible to configure Opera so that tabs behave like in FireFox? The default behavior of Opera after closing a tab to always switch to previously open tab. That totally messes up my workflow when I work with sites like Bugzilla.
2. Is it possible to tell Opera when restoring tabs during start-up to fetch them from net, not from cache? FireFox 3.5 does the same and it is also impossible to turn off. That gave me couple of time already the shock - WTF!? AGAIN???? IMPOSSIBLE!?!?!? - caused mainly by a browser showing me an outdated version of a intranet web page. It's really not the best way to start Mondays.
As FireFox more and more evolves into a "better browser for your mom", it seems that after 10+ years using Mozilla, I have to finally say goodbye. Opera is a great candidate, but the minor perks prevent it from being usable to me.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
I hate using browsers without adblock/noscript. Are there equivalents for Opera?
Apparently they figured the release was important enough for a full-blown trailer as well ;-)
In God We Trust, Others We Monitor
There aren't equivalents because Opera doesn't have plugins. However, Opera ships with controls for blocking images and javascript.
Yes. Unlike Firefox, it's built-in. If you want to devise your own method, you could use the built-in GreaseMonkey work-alike (I'm not sure whether GM or Opera's UserJS came first) to implement it.
It's always a long day... 86400 doesn't fit into a short.
Oprah 10.0? Does that mean she's back to being thi... wait, was Oprah 9 fat or thin Oprah?
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
And its consistent on every platform, and always has been *the browser* to push new things on browsers.
While Opera does have a lot of neat features, Google Gears support and the new fast Javascript engine haven't been released, these features do make web apps such as Gmai, Google Docs and Buxfer a lot better.
Another interesting thing about Opera is that its marketshare on CIS countries is more than IE/FF/Other browsers. Are they just technically more aware or whats the cause for that?
When Opera wasn't free, people could easily crack it, Opera was a lot faster on dialup connections (because it rendered pages immediately instead of waiting for them to load completely), it had caching that was actually useful and didn't need a lot of system resouces. So installing a "free" browser resulted in faster and cheaper internet. The latest Opera versions are installed because people remember how fast it was. It's still a great browser, and if other browsers aren't a lot better then why bother migrating?
Opera Mini seems to repeat the same success story, GPRS/EDGE internet is slow and pretty expensive in CIS (around $0.15-$0.20 per megabyte), and because Opera Mini compresses reduces the pages' size by 5-20 times, it's even used on devices with "real" browsers.
Oh yes, there are equivalents. Also, Opera has NoScript built in, in the form of site specific settings.
Clever signature text goes here.
Yes, Opera does have build-in blocking, but I've always preferred Ad Muncher myself. It comes with good lists and works easily - I've basically never seen ads anymore.
But does it run on Linux?
It runs on these OSs:
You can also see specialized versions for your distro of choice on their site
I use it on my virtual machines for the same reason. Much faster than Firefox to boot, highly compatible with the published W3C specifications.
As a personal browser I still prefer Firefox though; the variety of its add-ons is unbeatable.
Actually the only thing Opera still kind of needs is as good ad blocker as adblock. While it does have its feature for blocking content, it doesn't have lists and it doesn't always work as good. I know you could find lists for it and put them in the config files, but it's not as comfortable and still doesn't work as good.
Thats why I've always used Ad Muncher tho, it does the ad blocking perfectly (and not just in Opera, but all browsers). But Opera should really fine tune their ad blocking features. Otherwise there's no really features I can come up thats missing in Opera.
There are workarounds, such as privoxy. Still it's a matter of priority, if you consider usage of plugins more important than 100/100 ACID3 score then you should pick such a browser, if you don't then go ahead and use Opera. More often I value the importance of licenses much higher than functions, except some specific cases. To me virtually nothing is more important than to have the entire product, including blueprints (source). There's nothing wrong or right about that, it's just the way I value software and it will benefit me in some areas and cripple me in others, which is why I try to be somewhat flexible. Being somewhat of a perfectionist I hate to make crappy adhoc fixes, which I would consider privoxy to be. There's nothing about privoxy that the browser itself couldn't do, so why not include that in the browser and make the browser better? And if somebody doesn't want to I either do it myself or , if I don't know how, ask for someone else to do it for free or for money, much like anything in life.
Basically I'm one of those whom always prefers open source for these very simple reasons. We who do don't do it "just because", and those who cannot understand why we do usually have very little coding knowledge, hence why they cannot relate to the benefits, which is fine if you ask me. We all make choices based on our own experiences, and if you've never benefited from a source code, or know that you have, it really does make sense.
I am the lawn!
It's obvious why this is moded troll, however i believe you have a point.
Personally I'm a bit of a gnu zealot and that is why I'm holding on to firefox over chrome/opera, but i do find it interesting that a lot of people claim "open source software is more secure because you can view the source", then go on to run a closed app in one of the most vulnerable position on a system.
IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
Works fine in Safari 4.0.3 on Mac OS X 10.5.8: the rectangular "watermelon" smoothly resizes both horizontally and vertically whether I make the window smaller or larger.
But I do see the bug in Opera 10.00. If I shrink the window vertically (and only vertically) then the watermelon shrinks in jumps or falls behind and brings up a vertical scrollbar. If I enlarge the window vertically, then the watermelon stays at whatever size it was before. Even a pixel of resizing horizontally forces a refresh to the proper dimensions.
Hey it's my web browser. What I filter with it is my own business. For that matter, my choice of user-agent string is my business as well.
Stick to spamming IE users and illiterates. It's more profitable and less annoying to those who might threaten your existence.
Sorry to disappoint you, but V8, Carakan, etc. are for nothing but bragging rights these days. Someone did an analysis. About 10% at most of CPU cycles were taken up by JavaScript even on sites like Gmail. The real performance gains on real sites today are not JavaScript at all.
Clever signature text goes here.
while i agree this sucks on opera's part, you can make a similar observation of a rendering problem of similar implications and proportions in trident, mozilla, and webkit
they all have fixes they need to make. opera is no worse or no better
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Some ad servers are deliberately made incompatible with Firefox with Adblock installed, sometimes resulting in javascript alerts, sometimes the page never stops loading because it seems to be trying reloading the banner ad until it succeeds (or perhaps doing some tricky onload callback, I'm not sure). Opera's ad blocker is mostly immune to these tricks, and blocking lists can be easily downloaded from third-party sites. I think what Opera needs more is Flashblock, because pages that suddenly make sounds or start downloading HD videos without asking are disgusting.
C'mon, some of us can't use Linux and are forced to use Windows here. Give US a link too!
Opera has had the ability to block ads and other content for as long as I can remember, long before Firefox itself even existed. All that is required is for one to install a simple .ini file into Opera's user profile directory. The file must be updated manually, but it is simple enough to write a script to automatically download the new file every so often. It may not be as powerful or user-friendly as AdBlock Plus, but it works, and works well.
I've noticed a significant performance boost after migrating from Firefox 3.0 to 3.5, Gmail is a lot faster. I forgot to mention, Foxmarks and Passpack encrypt stuff with Javascript, so that even when the data is stored on remote servers, only you can actually read it.
The older digg site was also slow because of Javascript performance issues. Scrolling was slow in all major browsers until all comments loaded.
I have been using Opera since Opera version 4 ish - still prefer it above all others and have tried all the rest, but it is still faster, better layout, and more customizable to my taste than any other option. It also wins completely on GUI speed, and on keyboard navigation.
Just started with 10 now, and Opera still has it.
When I do web development, and want "inspect this" element and a browse-able dom tree - I use Firefox. To do layout checking and rendering checking, we fire up both Safari and IE. But for day to day, with 20-50 tabs open, browsing around... Opera is the one that works best.
ALREADY one new feature I LOVE: inline spell checking while I write! (This was one thing I wanted but it took a while for Opera to catch up to FF, and had to add a JavaScript user-side spell checker.)
Some basic functionality form the canvas API (text rendering functions) is still missing. Oh, and it doesn't alpha blend on drawImage, doing alpha testing instead. The result is kind of painful to look at.
The other problem I have with Opera is the slow javascript engine (my webapp does some lifting on the client side, Opera performs it the second slowest, Internet Explorer being the only worse browser in this area.)
Correct, you're not 'supposed' to use offsetHeight. Oddly enough Mozilla and whatnot thought that was actually a reasonable idea out of MS and implemented it as well, so I guess there's room for -a- function/property like it.
But please note that the linked demo page does not use offsetHeight or any scripting at all. It's pure CSS.
( I'm just guessing a lot of users are not going to read the original post or even check the demo page and simply read "My page doesn't work" and "offsetHeight is nonstandard anyway" and will dismiss the demo page. )
There might be other ways to achieve the same as that page, I'm not a CSS guru (I've got my own problematic page to which I've not seen any answer that didn't involve using javascript; ended up working around it on the server end where I know the size of the content (image). CSS layouts are very, very poor for any actual layout work, even if it's nice for 'fluid' layouts that will work on anything from giant screens to black and white text-only devices) /nokarma
It really is unfortunate that Nintendo said no to tabs on the Wii. I use a page that simulates tabs to have a few pages open at once (they are just loaded into iframes with tabs that switch between them). The machine starts to chug real bad at 3 tabs if they all have flash or 6 tabs if they don't. I think a browser would have to be built from the ground up for the Wii for it to really feel good and useful (although I do actually enjoy browsing on the Wii).
1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
"It" being some version of Opera.
To put the list into perspective a bit, lets take a look at the versions of Opera that run on some of these systems:
QNX: Opera 6.01b (which is a beta release). The last stable version for QNX is Opera 5.2.1.
OS/2: Opera 5.12.
BeOS: 3.62.
I somehow don't get to see any other releases. The server probably thinks I have one of the above systems (I have BeOS, but I still should be able to download Opera for any system I want to).
The BeOS version is unusable on the web today. It was only marginally useful when it was still new.
I don't know about the other two, but the story is probably somewhat similar.
Recent versions have become increasingly brittle. In the "final" version (at least for linux), it's got a showstopper bug that causes it to spin in a loop anytime the cpu gets busy, causing it to eat up even more cpu time. This is nowhere near ready for release.
This is the best restaurant I ever eat in
My little unpublicized page distorts on Opera too but few of the other browsers.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Seems to be some confusion about what plugins are. Opera has had plugins for years. That's how flash and java and many other technologies work on it. It does not have Firefox extensions, if that's what you mean.
1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
The best just got better....Great news! I've been a regular user of Opera for a good few years now, firstly on XP and more recently on Ubuntu, and it does everything I want (and a load of things I actually don't need as well) very impressively. Is there a downside to Opera? Well only the very occassional website that doesn't work properly, and that's always the website's fault. No problem...if they can't be bothered to code a decent website, I can't be bothered to view it.
I believe the reason the CIS countries like it so much is it's ability to handle Cyrillic script.
Smivs on the intertubes!
So ... you want Opera to include in their main browser a feature that you know is an optional 3rd party plug-in in for Firefox?
Have you considered why Adblock might be a 3rd party plug-in? Apart from the "barebones" bit. Could it be because the first sign that Mozilla is actively including a list of ads to block, they will be sued into the ground in the US and other places for interfering with other people's income? And while they might win such a lawsuit, don't they have better ways to spend their money?
And if they were to lose such a lawsuit, Mozilla might get off somewhat easy, as they are a non-profit organization. Opera on the other hand isn't.
Now, is it possible to make a third party addition to Opera that shares adsites to block? Certainly. I'm willing to bet that it's also possible to use the same lists that Adblock uses. To make things easy to start with, it could use mvps' list as a starter.
And, if you really want to be pedantic, there's always the option of using Google to find what you're looking for. There seems to be quite few attempts at recreating Adblock:
Tamil's My.Opera blog
OperaWiki.info has some suggestions
Lex1's blog on My.Opera also has some ideas
There's even a Flashblock for Opera
Basically it boils down to the same complaints you hear about Linux from people who are used to Windows: "but I need $program, and I don't want to look for replacements".
Now, what is the best option for you? I have the faintest idea. I'm quite satisfied with the built in filtering as it is. If I go to a site that has some annoying banners, it rarely takes me more than 30 seconds to block them, and I can live with that.
Is it as effective as Adblock? No clue - I don't use Adblock or Firefox if I can avoid it. It lacks the basic things that I love in Opera. Funny how that works out - one man's must have item is another man's "meh".
And if you want to be really pedantic, the one thing that Firefox still kind of needs is a built in ad blocker that's as good as Adblock.
For flashblock, you can put a button to enable/disable plugins in your toolbar. Does not work as well as flashblock, but good enough.
http://operawiki.info/CustomButtons
For adblock, I still have not found a good way to update my blocking list while keeping my modifications.
They managed to break some basic functionality in the release. For example, <a ... target="_blank"> doesn't work as expected and opens the link in the same window. The funny thing is that was okay in the betas. Oh, and they dare speak about some acid test or html5? Ridiculous.
can you please list in your user-agent string the fact that you use ad blockers so I can redirect you to pages which are "just headlines", since you seem to have decided that you're incapable of filtering information for yourself?
So let me get this straight...
You want him to help you filter him out because you think he's a putz for using a tool to help him filter you out?
Is that not just a TAD hypocritical?
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Pretty impressive when you consider that it's closed source so the distributors have to code, package, test, debug and maintain all those versions themselves without, unless I'm mistaken, a lot of community effort (minus bug reporting and things of the like).
I have left slashdot and am now on Soylent News. FUCK YOU DICE.
Could it be because the first sign that Mozilla is actively including a list of ads to block, they will be sued into the ground in the US and other places for interfering with other people's income? And while they might win such a lawsuit, don't they have better ways to spend their money?
And if they were to lose such a lawsuit, Mozilla might get off somewhat easy, as they are a non-profit organization. Opera on the other hand isn't.
Firstly, Opera Software is a Norwegian corporation. It would be Norwegian laws and court that would apply, not US ones. :)
Secondly, theres really no law against "interfering with other people's income". All the other ad blocker software would get sued then. Hell, virus writers and criminals could sue you and police because they're interfering with their income
And if you want to be really pedantic, the one thing that Firefox still kind of needs is a built in ad blocker that's as good as Adblock.
Opera's way however is different than Firefox. They like to build all the features natively in. And its great because I dont have to go hunt for every random addon that might be sub-standard; everything you need is build in (and hence doesn't take resources as much either) and is consistent in both quality and in usage.
Someone's made a flash blocker for Opera using just user stylesheets and javascript. I've used it for Opera 9 and works well for me--haven't tried 10 yet.
QT4 builds are also available
Someone did an analysis? Would you humor us with a reference?
CJ
Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari
Furthermore, there's an apt repository for .deb packages, both releases and beta versions. This is meant for Debian, as Ubuntu commercial software repository already packages Opera, but I've used it with Ubuntu as well (to get betas) without any trouble.
Still no VIDEO tag? (or at least I can't find it in the release notes?)
-- Sig down
Blasphemer... you blaspheme! Open-source is the one, true path... you do realize you're on /.
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
I began using Opera back when I had Windows 3.1 on a 4MB 386/40 system with a 32MB hardcard.
Netscape was complete useless on this system. Unimaginably slow.
Opera was not only fast, it fit on a floppy.
I believe that these two things are the main reason that Opera has had such great momentum in the old soviet republic. It was the only thing that worked for many people for a very long time, and since its easily as good as any other browser out there.. no reason to switch.
"His name was James Damore."
Microsoft says it will feed the poor when you download their latest browser. Can Opera do that? Thought so!!
Sent from my desktop computer
A good software app is always impressive but good software has been written for many years without community effort. I hope we don't reach a point where developers think they can't stand on their own two feet.
A 100/100 however does *not* indicate a pass, browsers need to pass all the tests at over 30fps to pass the whole test.
Only when running on a MacBook Pro, according to Hixie. Phones and netbooks with lesser CPUs need not run at 30 fps to pass, according to WaSP.
I'm ready to free my system, but it hasn't asked yet.
After my Firefox recently fell victim to malware (again), I reinstalled Windows and decided to give Opera and Chrome a real serious try.
What I like about Opera:
- The scrolling is fantastic, just buttery smooth
- The search bar works well
- Tab control is nice
What I hate about Opera:
- It just seems massively unstable sometimes. Opening multiple Slashdot tabs completely locks it up every time on me for example.
- I'm used to middle-clicking on everything to open stuff in new tabs, which both Firefox and Chrome allow me to do. Opera's support for this is inconsistent; ie it works on links but not with Bookmarks. I know you can press Shift to accomplish the same thing but that's not acceptable to me; I want to browse with just the mouse unless scrolling or typing.
These are both kinda deal breakers for me, which limits Opera to a secondary browser role. I'll definitely check out the new version tho.
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
I like this for ad blocking, no software to run and it works great. http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm The hosts file they have is amazing in the amount of crap it filters and by crap I do not just mean advertisements also it blocks out real garbage. Its even worth the effort of forcing it down vista's throat.
Could it be because the first sign that Mozilla is actively including a list of ads to block, they will be sued into the ground in the US and other places for interfering with other people's income?
Huh? This doesn't even make sense. Please provide any statutory or case law that even remotely would back one bringing such a frivolous lawsuit.
I remember trying Opera several years ago, and while I liked the performance, it had some other quirks that were troublesome at that time. Since then, I have grown very fond of Firefox, and as when I considered switching to Chrome, I found that there are a couple key features I simply cannot be without.
1) RSS Feeds in my bookmarks.
2) Web Developer
3) Firebug
Does Opera have similar functionality?
I believe in de-evolution. God made the world perfect, man fell, and its been going downhill ever since!
Sorry, but this is something you are imagining. If Gmail is faster it is not because of JavaScript. It's as simple as that.
Clever signature text goes here.
Opera still doesn't support border-radius or box-shadow, probably the two most important properties that make web designers life's easier. Safari (or really Webkit) seems to be doing all the innovating lately when it comes to CSS3 features with Firefox and Opera battling it out for 2nd place. Either way, as a developer I still prefer to use Firefox with all its useful developer tools and addons.
"During My Service In The United States Congress, I Took The Initiative In Creating The Internet." -Al Gore
You are probably relying on undocumented bugs or quirks in certain browsers. No wonder other browsers are having problems if they don't implement those specific quirks in the exact same way.
Clever signature text goes here.
And they still can't claim to support Linux as the superset, since they keep the source closed and don't have the resources to port it to other platforms.
When will they learn that Firefox is kicking their ass just by virtue of being open source? Firefox is probably inferior in many ways, but at least they don't get THE most obvious marketing move wrong.
Yeah, I know what you mean; I don't like it either but it's the only thing I use and I still can't get enough of it.
I think what Opera needs more is Flashblock, because pages that suddenly make sounds or start downloading HD videos without asking are disgusting.
I used http://operawiki.info/FlashBlock in Opera 9, not sure if it works in 10, although I suspect it should.
I won't be going to upgrade to version 10, I tried the beta recently and I was far from impressed.
I will stay with version 9 for a while longer.
What kind of problems have you been experiencing with Opera 10? I've been using all the tech previews they've been releasing and only had minor annoyances (the biggest one was some issue with closing pages with loading Flash that under some conditions caused Opera to crash).
"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
I use Opera under Ubuntu and increasingly more ads are slipping through and are impervious to the Block Content... method. Digg is probably the worst site about this.
Oops - I mentioned Digg on Slashdot; there goes all my Karma.
They also offer the Qt4 version, e.g. http://get.opera.com/pub/opera/linux/1000/final/en/x86_64/opera_10.00.4585.gcc4.qt4_amd64.deb
"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
...and Opera 10 has changed the appearance of at least one crucial CSS item since the most recent version of Opera 9, which, in this specific aspect, conformed to and rendered identical to Safari 3 and 4, Firefox 2 and 3 and even IE 6, 7 and 8.
Opera 10 now features a broken "line-height" CSS behavior, both in terms of how all other renderers behave, and in terms of what the WC3 specifies. Well done.
I suggest you build a validating test page showing the bug and report it to Opera.
"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
Unless I am missing something, they haven't brought Unite into the proper release yet. Maybe their attempt to reinvent the web isn't going according to plan?
It has been rescheduled for Opera 10.10; since the feature is still in Alpha status, it would have unnecessarily delayed the release of Opera 10.0
"I'm never quite so stupid as when I'm being smart" (Linus van Pelt)
Maybe it's just my machine, but I get a 99 when running Acid 3. Also, two of the tests were less than perfect. (Still a great score)
Failed 1 tests.
Test 26 passed, but took 67ms (less than 30fps)
Test 69 passed, but took 3 attempts (less than perfect).
Test 72 failed: expected '10' but got '1' - prerequisite failed: style didn't affect image
stacktrace: n/a; see opera:config#UserPrefs|Exceptions Have Stacktrace
Total elapsed time: 1.74s
Is Acid3 really still a useful test now that browser vendors will specifically tweak their software to pass it?
Yes, it is: the point of Acid is to point out flaws in browser rendering, and last I checked, the process of "specifically tweaking" software to address rendering issues was called "fixing bugs."
~all my female friends, even my mother on her debian-box
So that *is* both of you, then?
Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur...
"Force shits upon Reason's back." - Poor Richard's Almanac
Yeah, I heard someone did an analysis. Simple as that.
It was released for all Windows, Mac OS and Linux.
I was going to post that it's a shame that they've cut back on their cross-platform support, but it turns out that they haven't. You can get Opera 10 for quite a few more platforms including Linux/PowerPC, FreeBSD i386 and x86-64, Solaris SPARC and x86. QNX, BeOS and OS/2 only have quite old versions.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Someone did an analysis.
Cite or it didn't happen.
That has never been an issue before. It's fairly simple to get an injunction against distributing a company's product. And keep while Opera doesn't have that big a market for computers, it's very popular on smart phones.
And if there's an injunction against distributing the Opera browser, that'll stop Nintendo from distributing the Wii, as that's the browser of choice there.
So am I. The quoted 10% number is meaningless if, for instance, the cpu consumption shot to 100% for a second after every mouse click, and sat at 1% at all other times. It might average to 10%, but still feel hideously slow.
It also runs on Linux/ARM (but isn't available for download, only from OEMs; Nokia license it, however) and Linux/SPARC users can run it via the Solaris ABI layer. Somehow, I doubt Linux/IA64, Linux/Alpha, and so on users are a big enough market for anyone to care about. How well does FireFox run on Linux/PA-RISC, for example? The JavaScript JIT barely supports x86-64, let alone more obscure architectures...
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
These issues are still not fixed in 10.0 RTM:
- VMWare server 2.0 interface doesn't render properly in 10.0: Select a VM and at the right you don't see any info appear. /., where all checkbox controls are rendered as windows 95 checkboxes.
- '#' local links are resolved after everything is loaded: e.g. http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=277142&page=14#comment3054845 , this is slow, as all icons first have to be loaded before the local jump is made. This is annoying at forum sites
- On Windows XP, Checkbox in webpage isn't styled but looks like Windows 95 checkbox. This is particularly present here at
- Cookies set in javascript where the name has a ' ' in the name are not persisted.
- Sometimes a combobox is rendered as a windows 95 combobox instead of a Windows XP / themed combo box, e.g. when you set the options like: Pink
- In the default skin, on Windows XP, when you hover over the scrollbar at the right, the scrollbar is highlighted... pink
- Bittorrent client is really really slow compared to Vuse for example
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
What I've done is start adding offending scripts from the page info tab to the block content. Works on the tough stuff, as well as other annoying javascript like the keyword popups thing that some sites put in their page body text.
About 10% at most of CPU cycles were taken up by JavaScript even on sites like Gmail. The real performance gains on real sites today are not JavaScript at all.
That's just great news for those of you on 8-core i7 systems. Those of us stuck on older hardware, like the 1.25GHz G4 Mac I have at home, are grateful for the lower CPU usage.
10%, my butt. The new AJAXey discussion system here on Slashdot took forever to load on old versions of Firefox and Safari. New versions with enhanced JS engines are much faster for me. Your numbers are only believable if I load a discussion page once, hit the CPU hard during loading, and then view that same page with a mostly-idle CPU for the next 5 minutes. In that case, cutting the load time from 15 seconds to 3 seconds is the difference between 5% CPU average over that 5 minute period versus 1% CPU. Big deal, right? In the real world, though, I'm more interested in the fact that page loads now only take 20% as long.
In short, I utterly reject your claims. There's a kernel of truth, but in typical usage, the new, fast JS engines make a huge difference in user experience.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
[citation needed]
Even if not, we need to move beyond "just" Gmail. We need to speed up V8 and friends, as well as Webkit, Gecko and others. I want my browser to be my mobile desktop - a desktop which moves from machine to machine and where other companies host my not-too-private stuff and where I don't have to worry too much if I'm running a free GNU/Linux or a paid Windows version.
This includes games. (Flash sucks.)
Now, I have done some fugly hacks with Javascript arrays. Let's just say they were big, very big. Loading them took ages in Firefox 2.x compared to Opera and a Webkit browser from the same era. Firefox 3.x sped things up, and Firefox 3.5 brought them where they belong.
Just because you think Gmail doesn't need high performing Javascript, doesn't mean other potential apps don't either.
JS may not be all there is to web performance, but I'm pretty sure it will play a significant role in the future. After all, how else are you going to do proper pathfinding for large number of units over large maps in your web based (singleplayer) RTS?
Of course. I must be a troll. How else could you explain having to face new realities?
When will they learn that Firefox is kicking their ass just by virtue of being open source?
I'm going to be honest with you - I think that sentence is bullshit. Firefox is winning because it's the best-marketed alternative to IE, nothing more and nothing less. Whether it's actually better than Opera or not is a matter of taste.
I would be very surprised if the majority of Firefox users gave two shits whether it was open source or not.
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
Personally I'm a bit of a gnu zealot and that is why I'm holding on to firefox over chrome/opera, but i do find it interesting that a lot of people claim "open source software is more secure because you can view the source", then go on to run a closed app in one of the most vulnerable position on a system.
Hmm, I believe this has something to do with "open source" values vs. "free software" values. The open source movement tries to convey the message, that open source produces better quality software. Since it's only the quality of the software that matters, "open source fans" are more likely to use what works better for them. People, who really care about freedom, however, are much less likely to use Opera. However, since there are different kinds of freedom, when talking about web browsers, things can get a little confusing, so let me clarify:
- Opera promotes open standards (HTML, CSS) for the web, so it fights for the freedom to be able to use any browser that you choose (including free ones), and still be able to access the web. However, Firefox does the same thing also, and actually has been a lot more successful in achieving that, since it was the first browser to grab a significant marketshare from IE.
- Firefox itself is also free software by the FSF definition, so it also has all the benefits that follow from that: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
Personally, I'd never even consider using Opera, unless they release it under a free license. And I don't care if other people use it or not, as it is not a threat to free software, so it doesn't really affect me at all. The real threat for free software on the web right now is IMHO Adobe Flash, which still has no usable free alternative, and which I'm forced to use under Linux, although I hate it.
And actually, Google Chrome is free/open source, at least according to the license. The only problem with it is that it was initially developed in secret internally by Google (which kinda violates the free/open source spirit) and only supports Windows, which is non-free (although a Linux version is being worked on).
Here are some results from a Linux box:
Arora 0.8.0 - OK
Chromium 4.0.205 - OK
Dillo 0.8.6 - Complete failure. Dillo does not appear to support div at all (it's a fast, but feature-poor browser).
Epiphany 2.26.1 - OK
Firefox 3.0.13 - OK
Firefox 3.5.2 (Shiretoko) - OK
Galeon 2.0.6 - OK
Opera 10.0 - Dragging the lower edge of the window: Works fine on reducing window height up to a point, and thereafter the divs don't resize. Divs are unchanged in size on increasing window height. Dragging upper border of window: Divs do not resize on increasing or reducing the window height.
SeaMonkey 1.1.17 browser - OK
I don't have Conkeror or Konqueror installed, so they weren't tested. For obvious reasons, I also did not test Lynx or elinks (or wget or curl)... Dillo and Seamonkey were installed temporarily just for this test, then removed.
FWIW, I tend to use Epiphany/Firefox/Opera about equally, but for different purposes, and Arora/Chromium/Galeon not at all (installed out of curiosity, never removed).
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
I find it funny that the browsers that are the least popular do better in the test. I'm on my office's Vista machine, and here is what I'm getting from the different browsers:
Opera 10 100%
Safari 4.0.3 100%
Chrome 2.0.172.43 100% Linktest failed
Firefox 3.5.2 93%
IE 8.0.6001.18813 20% Linktest failed
Nintendo doesn't build the browsers into their consoles, both the Wii and the DSi require you to download it from the shop channel (both free now). I figure it's about not paying royalties on systems that never go online but it'd also make it easy to remove Opera (temporarily?) if an injunction happens.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I've seen sites that alone could cause an out of memory error so I wouldn't be surprised if tabs just weren't feasible.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Does it support the W3C standard for MVC markup yet, or is Opera still cherry-picking stanards that suit its business model more than those of its users?
And its consistent on every platform, and always has been *the browser* to push new things on browsers. Mouse gestures, speed dial, advanced browsers on Wii/Mobile phones etc.
That's exactly why I don't use it and why after testing Opera 10, it will now sit around until I need to use it for compatibility testing. It is too consistent among different platforms. The problem is, it limits itself to the features supported by the least common denominator of OS's on which it runs. Since OS X is my desktop of choice for a lot of my work and since I do a lot of writing in the browser these days, I want a browser that can actually use all the cool features of OS X.
Unlike Safari and Adobe InDesign, and Pages, and BBEdit, and Mail.app, and iChat, and Dreamweaver, and well, pretty much everything else, Opera ignores the built in spellchecker in OS X. Instead it uses it's own spellchecker which, of course, does not know the hundreds of technology specific words I've trained it with over the years. Further, it ignores the built in grammar checker and does not include a replacement version, so if I want to use grammar checking I have to copy and paste text out of opera and into any other program, check it, then copy and paste it back. It's like I'm back in the 90's. And then there are mouse gestures. It's really cool that they implement them, but I already installed a service to handle them for all programs on my machine as well and Opera, of course, can't use the standard OS X service. So I have to retrain that too and using a different interface and set of defaults. And then there are all my translation and text manipulation services for statistical analysis of text, fixing broken line endings from NotePad, bibliography auto formatting, smart quote cleanup, list sorting, etc. So for all of those functions I have to remember not to use my key combos and copy and paste out and back.
Frankly, that's way too annoying and as a power user I'm not willing to give up all my convenient solutions. Opera may well be my favorite browser on Windows, where such functionality does not exist, but as an OS X application it kind of sucks for power users.
When will they learn that Firefox is kicking their ass just by virtue of being open source? Firefox is probably inferior in many ways, but at least they don't get THE most obvious marketing move wrong.
One is a professional custom browser solution (and thus quite proprietary) and the other is an open source browser just put out to get grabbed and used by whomever. In the end, Mozilla Corporation is making a net income of 41 million a year and Opera Software is pulling in 80.9 million. So, I would say Firefox is really only winning on the PC platform, which isn't necessarily Opera's main market or the biggest cash cow. So who's really winning, hm? ;)
Whoops, before anyone corrects me it turns out that I forgot to convert NOK to USD. In reality, they're financially neck and neck, with Opera only slightly ahead. About 75 million in revenue with Mozilla to 78 million at Opera.
I think what Opera needs more is Flashblock, because pages that suddenly make sounds or start downloading HD videos without asking are disgusting.
Why yes, I do find Youtube disgusting! Nothing annoys me more than opening a few related Youtube videos, and having them all start playing at the same time. Then I have to click the pause button on each one individually.
Same thing on Gametrailers.com; flash starts playing immediately. Because of that, I actually set my default media player to quicktime.
He's not imagining it. He just doesn't know the reason for it. And for that matter, neither do I.
I have Portable FF 3.0 and Portable FF 3.5 sitting on my computer. FF 3.0 takes about 3x as long to load gmail.
False. Opera does business in the US. Therefore it is subject to US laws.
Secondly, theres really no law against "interfering with other people's income". All the other ad blocker software would get sued then.
Any site that survived on ad revenue would simply sniff for Opera's client strings and ban them all. Blocking advertisements in Opera, or going too close to there for the comfort of content providers, would be the end of Opera.
The ______ Agenda
Hey it's my web browser. What I filter with it is my own business. For that matter, my choice of user-agent string is my business as well.
Stick to spamming IE users and illiterates. It's more profitable and less annoying to those who might threaten your existence.
You're reading content whose creation was funded by the advertisers that you block. You're also using non-negligible bandwidth resources without providing any financial support to the sites, because you refuse to load those ads.
Essentially, you're showing up to an art gallery which has an entry fee, sneaking in a side door, then laughing at the suckers who are paying. Oh sure, you may not want to see those ads, and I can't blame you. But those stupid little banners are *the entirety* of what feeds the developers who run those sites. It might be "your business" if you block the ads and their revenue stream, but it is also "their choice" if they want you to either start behaving like a responsible denizen of the Internet or get off their site.
The ______ Agenda
If those annoying advertisements are "your business", my filtering them guarantees that you'll never get business from me.
Maybe you should change your approach. Or go bankrupt. Hey, it's your business.
Why, certainly. Super fast JS will be great in the future. It's just that these benchmarks don't even come close to representing real-world performance today.
Clever signature text goes here.
That's interesting because it's as fast in Opera as in Chrome here. And Opera hasn't even released its "super fast" JS engine yet.
Sorry, but they don't. Not on today's sites. In a few years, on the other hand...
Clever signature text goes here.
Testing is a big part of development, programming and development are different things. I would rather employ someone who invents tools that allow him to test behaviours. If you do not see the value doesn't mean it does not exist. It's in various books like the Pragmatic Programmer, Code Complete and Writing Solid Code. They would be a good starting point.
In Excel, they wrote two algorithms to test the appearance of cell data to make sure it was not buggy. This is a good thing because they needed to test for correctness...
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