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Blogger Loses Unemployment Check Because of Ads

Techdirt is reporting that one unfortunate, unemployed New York lawyer recently had her unemployment benefits greatly reduced because of the incredible $1/day she was earning via ads on her blog. "The whole thing sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare, with NY State asking her to get a form from her new 'employer' who didn't exist. Then NY Department of Labor started giving her all sorts of contradicting information, and eventually an 'investigation' into her 'business' — during which time her unemployment benefits were stopped entirely. She's now pulled the Google AdSense from her blog (total earned over the life of the blog $238.75)."

554 comments

  1. An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by GPLDAN · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...too incredulous to believe. Especially in New York.

    1. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by KiahZero · · Score: 1

      Have you been paying attention? Lawyers are getting laid off left and right, and the legal profession as a whole is going through one of the worst recessions since the Depression.

      --
      I'm a lawyer, but not yours. I wouldn't represent someone who thinks taking legal advice from Slashdot is a good idea.
    2. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I'm getting a New York lawyer, I'm getting a New York Country Lawyer

    3. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nomadic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...too incredulous to believe. Especially in New York.

      Are you kidding?? I'm a lawyer in NY, and the job market here is bad to the point of ridiculousness. Any open position will have hundreds of applicants, and the worst thing is it's probably never going to recover. Too many law schools, too many ignorant law school applicants, and too many law school administrators who are the only ones who benefit from the lawyer explosion.

    4. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Maybe it's about time for that bubble to burst.

      "...I used to be disappointed that so many of the best minds in the country were being devoted to this enterprise...I mean lawyers, after all, don't produce anything...and I worry that we are devoting too many of out best minds to this enterprise...I don't have any complaint about the quality of the council, except maybe we're wasting some of our best minds"

      -- Antonin Scalia, in a June interview with C-SPAN

    5. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by sexconker · · Score: 0, Troll

      And nothing of value was lost.

    6. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by digitalunity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The answer here should be obvious.

      She should start a blog about her legal troubles and put google adsense on it.

      By the time enough people read the blog and contact the legislature to fix this ridiculous problem, she won't need the unemployment benefits.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    7. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by digitalunity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm quite happy to have a world with less lawyers. The profession itself is evidence that the Law is too complex.

      If a law is written in such a fashion that the average citizen cannot understand it, let alone defend themselves in a court with it, liberty is damaged.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    8. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      depends the type.

      cash tight companies are very reluctant to settle right now. This means lots of money being spent on trials. This is boom times for litigation consulting.

    9. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Earn a dollar a day off blog ads, and the government objects, confused and stupid while it "investigates"?

      They only see "employer" giving cash, and "employee" receiving it. What's that old saying, if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail? Same reason the same people choke over volunteerism from time to time as violating labor wage laws.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    10. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by jeffshoaf · · Score: 2, Funny

      the lawyer explosion

      Now there's something you could sell tickets to!

      --
      Putting the "anal" back into "analyst"...
    11. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Ke3g · · Score: 1

      Meh you don't know where in New York she lived. Anyway this sounds so fucked up lol.

    12. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right. And they are punishing her because she did what she felt was the right thing to do, which was to declare the extra income!

      Note to the unemployed - W2 or it didn't happen ;)

    13. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by modecx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The way I see it, they've done a very good job at creating their own job security, in the same way that civil engineers seem to love placing manholes right in the tire path in roads. (i.e. causing the suspension of the car passing over it to bounce, ultimately tearing up the road down wind of the manhole, creating a job for a civil engineer to oversee rebuilding of said road)

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    14. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Lost+Engineer · · Score: 1

      What about cases where the law is clear but the facts are in question?

    15. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by AnotherUsername · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm quite happy to have a world with less lawyers. The profession itself is evidence that the Law is too complex.

      If a law is written in such a fashion that the average citizen cannot understand it, let alone defend themselves in a court with it, liberty is damaged.

      I would imagine that the reason that laws are so complex is due to the fact that too many people have used loopholes to cover up their wrongdoing, and lawmakers have had to react by making laws longer and more drawn out in order to ensure that any possible loopholes are filled. Don't blame the lawmakers. Blame the criminals who forced the lawmakers to make more and more complex laws.

      --
      I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
    16. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by deoxyribonucleose · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am quite happy to have a world with fewer programmers. The profession itself is evidence that computers are too complex.

      If a program is written in such a fashion that the average citizen cannot understand it, let alone fix its bugs, their freedom to tinker is damaged.

      The law is complex, because the world is complex. The alternative to complex law is arbitrary judgements, or the state retreating from adjudicating relationships among citizens and corporations. (OK, some wooly-eyed anarchist is going to salivate at the latter prospect, but personally, I prefer police and judges to arbitration by baseball bats.)

    17. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this a good thing for the rest of us?

    18. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Runaway1956 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ahem. "People" don't find the loopholes. Lawyers find them. If Joe and Margaret Sixpack want to cheat the government out of money, they aren't going to get away with it. They'll be taken to court, where some LAWYER will build some ridiculous defense using some set of loopholes that the Sixpacks would NEVER have thought of.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    19. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by afidel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I loved a quip my boss passed on from a talk by Greenspan lamenting the fact that our best and brightest went into investment banking instead of civil engineering. He said that for every investment banker you create one job, for every civil engineer you create 26. I think the quip applies equally to lawyers.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    20. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually that would be a 1099-MISC not a W2, take it from someone who knows =)

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    21. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nomadic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If a law is written in such a fashion that the average citizen cannot understand it, let alone defend themselves in a court with it, liberty is damaged.

      The thing about the law and complexity is it scales. If you're just a regular guy on the street, there isn't THAT much of the law you need to be aware of/understand. If you're a huge company, then yes, there's a lot more you have to be aware of, but you are in the position where you have the resources to do it.

      A lot of the "complexity" people complain about in the law is an attempt to create a system that's objective as possible. It doesn't succeed totally, of course, but without this complexity I think it would be a lot worse.

    22. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Iron+Condor · · Score: 1

      [...] The law is complex, because the world is complex. [...]

      ...or is it the other way 'round?

      --
      We're all born with nothing.
      If you die in debt, you're ahead.
    23. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Trebawa · · Score: 1

      Wait, laws to stop criminals? That's crazy.

    24. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by sofar · · Score: 1

      that would need scientists to answer then, not lawyers.

    25. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You mean "incredible." "Incredulous" means "unbelieving," while "incredible" means "unbelievable."

      I know, I would have been more "with it" to quote Inigo Montoya, but then you might not have believed me.

    26. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by jim_v2000 · · Score: 1

      I doubt that fewer lawyers will result in less complex laws.

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    27. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would argue that the correct way to close a loophole is to make the law simpler, not more complicated. It's like the joke someone had when the found the missing link, "As you can clearly see, there are now 2 gaps in the fossil record." Making laws more and more detailed and more and more specific opens them up for abuse because it creates more corner cases, which is where the abuse takes place.

    28. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

      Such a thing doesn't exist for these pinheads. To them, facts are those things that pesky lawyers are worried about, to everyone's annoyance. In their simple worldview, lawyers and facts are nothing but burdens to all free men.

      I say give them guns and establish a Libertarian exception for Code Duello prohibition.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    29. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Xiterion · · Score: 1, Redundant

      I'm quite happy to have a world with less computer programmers. The profession itself is evidence that computer programming is too complex. If a computer program is written in such a fashion that the average citizen cannot understand it, let alone defend themselves from malware by applying patches and recompiling it, liberty is damaged.

    30. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      old joke: definition of a waste... a bus went over a cliff edge, killing all 29 lawyers on board. the waste? there was an empty seat on that bus.

    31. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by j0nb0y · · Score: 1

      As a 3L who can't get a job, and who will probably go back to software engineering (not necessarily a bad thing) after law school, I wholeheartedly agree. Unless you have a very good reason, don't go to law school. It is not the ticket that it once was, and considering the education required, the payoff is not going to be worth it for most people.

      --
      If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
    32. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As someone moving into the field of 'law enforcement', allow me to give my own spin. It's the people, not the lawyers who find loopholes. That's why my pocket criminal code is so thick, it reads more like a modern day bible. And my traffic act is nearly 7" thick. It's not the smart people who figure out loopholes, it's the clever ones.

      It is however the lawyers, who in turn successfully or unsuccessfully defend the person on the said charge which cause the law to be expanded to include a new definition. Sometimes loopholes happen because of a persons mistakes as well, I've seen that one happen more than once, Canada's common law is full of them.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    33. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nomadic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "...I used to be disappointed that so many of the best minds in the country were being devoted to this enterprise...I mean lawyers, after all, don't produce anything...and I worry that we are devoting too many of out best minds to this enterprise...I don't have any complaint about the quality of the council, except maybe we're wasting some of our best minds"

      The skillset that makes you good at the law doesn't necessarily translate well into other fields. Take a hypothetical college student; likes philosophy, social science, literature, great analytical and verbal skills, but not especially strong technical or mathematical skills. What alternate career would you suggest? Through most of human history, being a skilled speaker, writer, and thinker could get you places, but in the modern world those skills aren't as valued.

    34. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He said that for every investment banker you create one job, for every civil engineer you create 26. I think the quip applies equally to lawyers.

      Every lawyer creates two jobs; his own and one to represent the other side.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    35. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by ukyoCE · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This seems like the exact opposite of what they should be doing. Laws should be as simple as possible, leaving interpretation up to the judge and jury to determine whether a law was broken.

      Perfect example is having a "no texting while driving law". And a "no cell phones without hands-free set" law. And a "no putting on makeup while driving law". And a "no eating hamburgers while driving law". And on, and on.

      The law should just say something brief to the extent of "no distracted driving" that encompasses all of these.

      Include "spirit of the law" text explaining the purpose of the law if necessary, to both avoid people getting away with obviously "wrong" things by finding some ridiculous loophole, and to avoid prosecutors trumping up ridiculous charges that clearly obviate the intent of the law.

    36. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cyanide tester?

    37. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nomadic · · Score: 1

      As a 3L who can't get a job, and who will probably go back to software engineering (not necessarily a bad thing) after law school, I wholeheartedly agree. Unless you have a very good reason, don't go to law school. It is not the ticket that it once was, and considering the education required, the payoff is not going to be worth it for most people.

      Definitely. I wish the law school deans were more honest. And I wouldn't even say the education isn't worth it, but the debt most people put themselves in definitely isn't.

    38. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      "...I used to be disappointed that so many of the best minds in the country were being devoted to this enterprise...I mean lawyers, after all, don't produce anything...and I worry that we are devoting too many of out best minds to this enterprise...I don't have any complaint about the quality of the council, except maybe we're wasting some of our best minds"

      The skillset that makes you good at the law doesn't necessarily translate well into other fields. Take a hypothetical college student; likes philosophy, social science, literature, great analytical and verbal skills, but not especially strong technical or mathematical skills. What alternate career would you suggest? Through most of human history, being a skilled speaker, writer, and thinker could get you places, but in the modern world those skills aren't as valued.

      Politics (ewww!)? Diplomacy (a bit hopeful...)? Anything else nontechnical that e.g. Ben Franklin did?

      --
      $ make available
    39. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

      This is slashdot[1], where Humpty-Dumpty linguistics applies, and anyone who disagrees is a big fat grammar nazi.

      [1] it is not Sparta.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    40. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Thinboy00 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am quite happy to have a world with fewer programmers. The profession itself is evidence that computers are too complex.

      If a program is written in such a fashion that the average citizen cannot understand it, let alone fix its bugs, their freedom to tinker is damaged.

      The law is complex, because the world is complex. The alternative to complex law is arbitrary judgements, or the state retreating from adjudicating relationships among citizens and corporations. (OK, some wooly-eyed anarchist is going to salivate at the latter prospect, but personally, I prefer police and judges to arbitration by baseball bats.)

      Who modded that flamebait? It may be controversial and sarcastic, but flamebait it ain't.

      --
      $ make available
    41. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Politics (ewww!)? Diplomacy (a bit hopeful...)? Anything else nontechnical that e.g. Ben Franklin did?

      In other words, things that people will also complain about being useless...Ben Franklin wrote, but society can't even support everyone who wants to be a writer now.

    42. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Alok · · Score: 1

      Documentation writer for all those open source projects out there? *Someone* has to make a start with that you know!

    43. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is everyone is a fucking asshole, don't blame it on laws and lawyers.

    44. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by AnotherUsername · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Vague laws like the type you describe are the reason that we have a huge debate over the 2nd Amendment.

      For those who are not familiar with this amendment:

      A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      Does this mean that everyone has a right to bear arms, or only those within the State Militia(the military, specifically, the National Guard)? One argument says that since everyone was in the State Militia at the time, everyone should be able to bear arms. Another argument says that if someone wants to bear arms, they should join the military. Because the Amendment was so vague, we have this debate now. Granted, at the time, the lawmakers knew what they were wanting to say. However, as people die and the common language adapts and changes, the 'spirit of the law' becomes lost. This is why lawmakers are specific in what the law is meant to do, so that people in the future, and currently, know what the law is and is not forbidding or granting.

      While I agree that getting too specific results in little leeway in court cases where the 'spirit of the law' does not cover this or that, I disagree that laws should be as vague as possible. A law such as 'No distracted driving', to the right court, could mean that a parent with a screaming child in the backseat is breaking the law. Or playing the radio is breaking the law(auditory distraction). Or talking to someone in the passenger is distracted driving.

      I would like to see all the types of distracted driving placed into a single law, with amendments to the law as they are needed. I am not a lawyer, but I would imagine it would make the court system much more efficient, if each 'type of law' had its own specific place, and amendments were added instead of new laws being written.

      --
      I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
    45. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by T-Bone-T · · Score: 1

      Do you think laws didn't start out simple? We started off with "Thou Shalt Not Murder" and over time it has become "Thou Shalt Not Murder Nor Attempt Murder And If One Does It May Or May Not Be Murder Or Attempted Murder Depending On The Circumstances".

    46. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by T-Bone-T · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I concur. I just started a Business Law class and had no clue about one of the primary components of a contract, consideration. Then it got more and more complex, things like "When is an offer considered to be accepted or even valid?" and that is just the basics.

    47. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nomadic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I would like to see all the types of distracted driving placed into a single law, with amendments to the law as they are needed. I am not a lawyer, but I would imagine it would make the court system much more efficient, if each 'type of law' had its own specific place, and amendments were added instead of new laws being written.

      Generally that's what happens. I think if everyone would actually look at their state statutes they'd find the laws really aren't as complicated as some people tend to think.

    48. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by icannotthinkofaname · · Score: 1

      Blame the criminals who forced the lawmakers to make more and more complex laws.

      Wait, what? Are they really criminals if all they did was exploit a loophole? I understood that a loophole, by definition, is a legal way of getting around a law. I also understood that a criminal is one to violates criminal law. But if a loophole was exploited, doesn't that mean that no law was broken, so the person cannot be considered a criminal?

      --
      Let q be a radix > 1. I am in ur base-q, killing 10 d00ds.
    49. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by rantingkitten · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most people have no particular obligation, need, or desire to fix programs or write their own. It's a total matter of choice.

      However, everyone is expected to comply with the law, whether they like it or not. It is an obligation, enforced with guns. The law is so complex that it is understood that the average citizen cannot possibly understand most of it -- hence, specialists such as lawyers. At the same time, the average citizen is expected to fully comply with these laws he cannot possibly understand, under threat of severe penalties.

      Perhaps one alternative to complex laws -- at least, ones the average everyday yob is likely to face -- is to clean them up and get judges that actually, you know, make judgements instead of metting out punishment according to what the rule books say. Traffic court is a great example, and one that most people have to tangle with at some point, often over some inane, niggling point of law that most people didn't even know was on the books.

      But judges usually adhere to strict letter instead of the actual spirit, the intent, of the law, and pronounce you guilty and send you off with a fine. The only way out is to hire a lawyer for serious money, go through weeks or months of legal hassle, and maybe get some kind of reduction if you're lucky. It's too easy for judges to mindlessly throw the book at everyone instead of making actual judgement calls like "this person clearly meant no infraction, nothing happened because of it, off you go." Instead we get statutes that fill multiple volumes of books, and bewildered citizens being charged with crimes they didn't even know existed and never meant to violate.

      --
      mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
    50. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      That seems exactly wrong to me if your goal is to have fewer lawyers. Vague laws would lead to more lawyers because more is open to interpretation and argument. Taken to extreme, if we had very detailed laws that covered every possible situation, we could dispense with lawyers and judges altogether and have lawsuits decided by a computer. Well, not really, you'd still have the fact finding part etc, but the point is more precise the laws, less work for lawyers.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    51. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by AnotherUsername · · Score: 1

      Wait, what? Are they really criminals if all they did was exploit a loophole? I understood that a loophole, by definition, is a legal way of getting around a law. I also understood that a criminal is one to violates criminal law. But if a loophole was exploited, doesn't that mean that no law was broken, so the person cannot be considered a criminal?

      How about, criminal in spirit, if not in actuality. If they are doing something that is against the law, but they find a loophole to keep doing said activity, they are criminals in spirit, though they did not get found guilty of the crime in actuality.

      --
      I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
    52. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they are doing something that fits in a loophole, then it is not against the law.

    53. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A big difference is, you CAN find a niche where there is no need for programmers. I'm sure the Amish would welcome you into their fold for instance.

      But where can one hide from lawyers? And don't say "heaven"... that is a gimme. If you interface _anybody_, you may need a lawyer.

      Your point is taken (world is complex), but the argument was, laws are so complex, you need a lawyer, and that is a fact. I'm not sure where "liberty" begins/ends in this context though. I am sure that, laws written by lawyers definitely has a conflict of interest at heart. :)

    54. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      things like "When is an offer considered to be accepted or even valid?" and that is just the basics.

      Like the fact that an acceptance of an offer need only be sent, not necessarily recieved, to make the contract binding. I.e. as soon as the acceptor mails off the acceptance the contract has been accepted and the offerer is bound by it. It doesn't matter that the offerer does not yet know it has been accepted.

      I had a contract management class in college, it was very enlightening.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    55. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by wordsnyc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I worked at a Wall St. law firm for nearly 20 years (administration, not legal), and most of our lawyers lacked any identifiable skill, and definitely even a trace of analytical or verbal skills. They were drudges in the worst sense of the word -- hacks who had to go through six drafts of a client memo because they were to stupid to write legibly or have someone check their grammar. Of course, they were never allowed to go to court -- we had show-pony partners for that.

      --
      Sent from the iPad I found in your car.
    56. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by donaggie03 · · Score: 1

      Having less lawyers around won't make the law more understandable. That's a different argument entirely. Having less lawyers around will do one thing: make the lawyers who are left think they can charge more for their services.

      --
      Three days from now?? Thats tomorrow!! ~Peter Griffin
    57. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by HornWumpus · · Score: 0, Troll

      can't even support everyone who wants to be a writer now.

      Why the fuck should it?

      Should it support everyone who wants to be a rock star as well?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    58. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by ukyoCE · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Laws are subjective, and the attitude of "let's try to cover every single detail imaginable!" is guaranteed to both leave loopholes as well as catch unintended targets in the overly-strict rules.

      That's in addition to, of course, making laws so complex that both no one can know them and everyone is violating them. At least until we manage your hypothetical coding of every possible scenario ever into a computer, plus the reasoning for the computer to make judgements based on incomplete evidence. (which you could certainly argue human juries aren't that great at either)

    59. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by ukyoCE · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's just like code - refactoring and removing old laws is vital. And laws that serve no purpose, aren't enforced, or cannot be enforced, should not stay on the books. The smallest set of rules is best, just as that government is best which governs least.

    60. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      I've thought the same thing in the past, the spirit of the law should be what applies. The problem comes in that it give judges and juries a lot of latitude on what penalties to apply leading to inconsistent application of the law.

    61. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by hansamurai · · Score: 1

      Blame the criminals who forced the lawmakers to make more and more complex laws.

      Criminals are deemed criminals because of the law. But hey, I like all this complicatedness, gives me job security (IANAL).

    62. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, what a seemingly logical conclusion. Unfortunately the lawyer on the other side didn't create any jobs, then. So it's even again.

    63. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Zordak · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's not true. We both have a secretary.

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    64. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by izomiac · · Score: 1

      I always found it odd that "ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law", but the legal system is far too complex for anyone to understand exactly what laws they are governed under at any given time. One of these days I'm half expecting an officer to arrest me for carrying an ice cream cone in my back pocket on a Sunday or something.

    65. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by dkf · · Score: 1

      If a program is written in such a fashion that the average citizen cannot understand it, let alone fix its bugs, their freedom to tinker is damaged.

      But the average person can't program because they're no good at putting ideas together in a logical fashion. They just don't think in terms that fit with the mindset necessary to successfully program. The barrier is not legal or social, but rather a fact of nature, so using a FSF doublespeak sloganeering to reason about this won't help.

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    66. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by arminw · · Score: 1

      ...they are criminals in spirit...
      who violate the Golden rule. Unfortunately, that includes every one of us every day. In the Bible, those that violate it are called sinners. However, the good news is that God offers mercy to sinners. Those that refuse to accept his mercy will be judged by that law.

      --
      All theory is gray
    67. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're kidding me. If they are indeed Joe and Margaret Sixpack and if they were to commit a crime, it wouldn't be a loopholed one. Those who commit crimes that take advantage of loop holes are hardly J&M Sixpacks and may not be lawyers.

      It's like saying if the world has no doctors there will be no diseases..

    68. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Why not blame the lawmakers who added the loopholes in the first place, and then act all shocked with other people find out ways to exploit them in ways the lawmakers didn't think about (they just added them for their own benefit - not usually directly but indirectly, add an exemption for X because lots of people in their district are involved in X).

      If the laws were simple to start with their would be no loopholes to exploit. Of course then the lawmakers couldn't use those laws to try to provide incentives for the things they like and barriers to the things they don't. Which most lawmakers live to do.

    69. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Treating it as income like that isn't the problem. If I lose my job but I have earn $100k a year by using the side of my house as a billboard, or by putting ads on my web page do you really think I should qualify for unemployment benefits?

      The issue is that they suspend the entire benefits because she earned $3. Treating that $3 as income and reducing her unemployment payments would be fine. Stopping them, even temporarily - I'm sure lots of unemployed people are living check to check they are unemployed after all - is simply insanity.

    70. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing about the law and complexity is it scales. If you're just a regular guy on the street, there isn't THAT much of the law you need to be aware of/understand. If you're a huge company, then yes, there's a lot more you have to be aware of, but you are in the position where you have the resources to do it.

      Well, yes and no. The "guy on the street" doesn't need to know much as long as he isn't trying to actually do anything. But you want to write a computer program? Now you need a patent lawyer. And don't violate the DMCA anti-circumvention provisions, or the crypto export laws that aren't as strong as they used to be but still exist, or the new bill that says P2P apps can't search the disk for files and share them (unless they are primarily accessed by DNS...or something). And don't forget to take a contracts class so that you can make an informed choice as to what kind of license you want to use. Also be sure to consult a copyright lawyer about termination rights -- you want to be sure you don't use any code written by Microsoft regardless of the license because if they later exercise their termination rights you could be in trouble. Do I need to go on?

    71. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by digitalunity · · Score: 1

      In a court of law, questions of fact are answered by our system of adversarial trial and either a jury or in the absence of a jury, a judge makes the decision.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    72. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody's forcing you to use computers. Everyone's forcing you to obey laws.

    73. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      An unemployed lawyer? That's about as rare as a it gets. If she's such a bad lawyer that she can't open her own office to practice law, then who would want her as a lawyer?

      What's next? An unemployed doctor? An unemployed hooker? An unemployed slashdot editor?

      If anybody needs to be unemployed, it's politicians and bureaucrats!

    74. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by digitalunity · · Score: 1

      This is an excellent point, and the analogy isn't completely wrong. Just as we describe the function of a program through code, we describe the function of our government through laws.

      Too rarely, companies do not reexamine long-ago written code for security issues, portability maintenance, etc.

      Such is the same with government. Too rarely does it make an effort to remove from its books old laws that are irrelevant, inapplicable or unenforceable.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    75. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by digitalunity · · Score: 1

      In fact, an argument could easily be made that the textual way in which we describe program logic is verbose and I'm quite confident that at some point in the future, it will be meaningless and looked upon as the dark ages.

      You're right though, the world IS complex. That doesn't mean we need a tax code so complicated even IRS agents have to specialize in corporate or individual taxes. The penal code doesn't need to be so complex that it takes a 12th grade reading level to understand the words and a college degree(or two) to interpret its meaning.

      Show me a world where citizens cannot understand their own laws and I will show you tyranny.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    76. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahem. "People" don't find the loopholes. Lawyers find them.

      Where the fuck do you think lawyers came from? People analyzing and understanding (for better or for worse) the law. It's not like on the 7th day $diety created some magical creatures called Lawyers.

      Man A makes law, Man B finds a shortfall of law, Man A modifies law to be more accurate and/or more encompassing. Lather, rinse, repeat. If we as a species weren't so conniving it might be a different story ... alas, we are only human.

    77. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by jo42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Then how did they get through law school? Daddy's money and connections bought them the law degree?

    78. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by mikael · · Score: 1

      For financial crimes, it's the accountants that find the loopholes, it's the MP's that try to close them, it's the Inland Revenue that tries to demand the unpaid money, and the lawyers that try to deny that demand.

      Just look at the arguments that have been caused by the IR35 legislation dealing with private contractors/freelancers, which has now spread to entertainers:

      Big earning BBC stars set up their own companies to escape high tax bills

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    79. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by snaz555 · · Score: 1

      Through most of human history, being a skilled speaker, writer, and thinker could get you places, but in the modern world those skills aren't as valued.

      You make it sound as if progress is tied to their marginalization.

    80. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      No, only one, because the other side is also a lawyer, and his opposite side already exists. If every lawyer created another lawyer, as soon as you had one lawyer, everyone would have to become a lawyer. Actually, you might be right.

    81. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a few places in the world without laws --- or at least where lawyers don't exist or are useless.

    82. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1

      This would be based on the unwavering generosity of the web-surfing public?

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    83. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by NateTech · · Score: 1

      Being a GOOD writer is always valued. But you have to be good enough to rise above the ridiculous flood of mediocre writing readily available to all of us. For example, you're reading this instead of a great modern writer, which I'm certainly not.

      --
      +++OK ATH
    84. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by jred · · Score: 1

      Actually, they both have paralegals to do the actual work...

      --

      jred
      I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
    85. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by sulliwan · · Score: 1

      I keep seeing this thrown about every now and then that everyone should be able to understand the laws. This is complete nonsense. Most people can't even understand their dishwasher manual which is a much simpler machine than that which is governed by the laws. Additionally, natural language has a really low information density and is rather ambiguous, neither are qualities you would want for describing laws. This is the reason legalese exists for in the first place, it's not just lawyer job security. You wouldn't want computer programs written in natural language, would you? You also wouldn't expect everyone to understand the programs.

    86. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's actually a terrible example because the average citizen should really know the basics of contract law. If you have a job you have a contract. If you have a mortgage or rent a property you have a contract. EULA validity or not is a question of contract law. These are all issues which affect average citizens.

    87. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You also wouldn't expect everyone to understand the programs.

      Let's fix that analogy. It's slightly clearer with interpreted languages, so let's pretend that it's 20 years ago and I'm still programming in BASIC. I expect the interpreter to obey the instructions in the program. If it doesn't understand them then it should complain.

      Who's expected to obey the law?

    88. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The key point is "well regulated". All USAians should attend regular military training. All USAians should own a gun. Gun must be stored and used during training only.

      Pros: No more arguments re 2nd amendment; fewer lard-arses; more guns and soldiers in case of invasion from Russia^H^H^HJapan^H^H^HCanada^H^H^HGermany^H^H^HIraq^H^H^HChina; no unemployment; increased manufacturing (of military stuff); fewer people getting shot during a simple robbery.

      Cons: Hmmmm, some one help me out here....

    89. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Law school is not particularly hard. I sat in on a few law lectures for my own interest as an undergrad, and anyone with a decent memory and basic reasoning skills could have got, at least, a passing grade. Bar exams are harder, but you are allowed to keep retaking them until you pass (for some of them, the pass rate is about 25%, but the eventual pass rate, after several retakes, is much higher).

      In terms of competence, law isn't much different from any other field. A few are very competent, the majority are not. Contrary to popular belief, there is a good reason why some lawyers can charge a lot more than others.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    90. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      You're moderated interesting, but you're missing one important point. A lot of programmers (myself included) are actively trying to simplify the task of programming, with the end goal that it should be possible for every user to modify programs that don't meet their needs. How many lawyers are actively trying to get the law simplified to the point where the average citizen can understand it?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    91. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Elky+Elk · · Score: 1

      No good deed goes unpunished :(

    92. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      > Or talking to someone in the passenger is distracted driving.

      It *is*. I see idiots on the road all the time who are busier explaining some moot point to their passangers than watching the road, preferrably with wide hand gestures that make sure they don't have to keep their hands on the wheel.

      Also, if you're too dumb to educate your kids enough to not be a menace in the car, maybe you don't have the smarts to drive a two-tonne lump of metal, either ?

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    93. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on who has the baseball bats.

      Then again since this is anarchy we're talking about *everyone* has a baseball bat. I never trust everyone.

    94. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      Does this mean that everyone has a right to bear arms, or only those within the State Militia(the military, specifically, the National Guard)?

      There is no confusion if you read it properly.

      The first part speaks of "A well regulated militia begin necessary to the security of a free state". First, you need to look at the definition of "regulated" and "militia" at the time the Bill of Rights was drawn up.

      Militia: ...since approximately 1665, militia has taken the meaning "a military force raised from the civilian population of a country or region, especially to supplement a regular army in an emergency...

      regulate: "-To put in good order
      - To adjust, or maintain, with respect to a desired rate, degree, or condition"

      So, substituting those definitions into the Amendment, we get:

      A "maintained in good working order" "military force raised from the civilian population of a country" being necessary to the security of a free state...

      The simple truth is, this is an explanatory clause. It explains WHY the "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".

      Note what the rest of the Amendment says: The right of "the people". The same "the people" who have a right to "peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances". The same "the people" who have the right "to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures". THAT is who has the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. The people. All this crap about 'it only applies to the military" is just that- crap. It doesn't say "the right of the military/militia to keep and bear arms". It says the right of the PEOPLE.

      See? Easy.

    95. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Some states are better than others. I had a friend in Florida who had a forced resignation by one company and couldn't collect unemploymet, but he moved to a different state, who paid (as well as the company that forced him to resign).

    96. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      Damn straight! And when those "software vulnerabilities" are uncovered, it's always a SOFTWARE DEVELOPER! A normal person would never have found such a vulnerability. Clearly the world would be better off with much less software developers!

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    97. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nomadic · · Score: 1

      I worked at a Wall St. law firm for nearly 20 years (administration, not legal), and most of our lawyers lacked any identifiable skill, and definitely even a trace of analytical or verbal skills.

      That's kind of sad. Curious as to which firm, every law firm I've worked at those skills were prized.

    98. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Like the fact that an acceptance of an offer need only be sent, not necessarily recieved, to make the contract binding. I.e. as soon as the acceptor mails off the acceptance the contract has been accepted and the offerer is bound by it.

      In theory, yes, but in real life the "mailbox rule" is usually contracted around--the offering party will expressly state the method in which the offer can be accepted.

    99. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just made my day :) Seriously - I haven't had a good belly-laugh like that in years.

      Spontaneous laughter isn't unusual in my office, but my co-workers are getting a bit concerned by the stifled giggling and tears running down my face...

    100. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Um, considering that the investment bankers ruined the economy, the statement that they are "the best and brightest" is dubious at best.

    101. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by kevinNCSU · · Score: 1

      So every citizen whether arrested for excessive speeding or serial murder/rape should be able to roam free to ask questions of scientists, gather evidence, and prepare a case? And every citizen should be comfortable with public speaking, questioning of witnesses, and gaining the trust of an audience?

      Or every citizen that might end up on a jury duty should just be able to understand everything a scientist says about any field? Or every scientist should be good at public speaking and explaining things to a jury?

      OR, we could have some sort of profession whose job it is do do all those things...

    102. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by sweatyboatman · · Score: 1

      Most people have no particular obligation, need, or desire to fix programs or write their own. It's a total matter of choice.

      Huh? Most people I know spend every minute they're at the computer wishing that the software they have to use was better, smarter, more efficient and more adapted to their way of working.

      However, they recognize that they do not have the skills required to change the behavior of their computer. To this they turn to experts.

      The GP's point is quite apt. Complicated systems require expertise. Wishing that life was simple does not make it so.

      --
      It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
    103. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The law should just say something brief to the extent of "no distracted driving" that encompasses all of these.

      It also encompasses those flashing blinking twirling signs you see so often these day, pretty girls walking down the street (I was actually in an accident because of this distraction once in my youth), screaming kids in the back seat, wives that want to tell you how to drive, etc.

    104. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      What you propose is actually hard to do. A law that forbids "distracted driving" would be open to wildly different interpretation and randomness by judge and jury.
      - What if you adjust the volume on your radio while driving?
      - What if you have a wailing kid on the back seat?
      - etc.

      Vague laws either lead to jurisprudence (which will basically then cover the same ground, with a list of what is bad and what is good behaviour), or to a lot of arbitrary convictions depending on the personal view of the judge or jury.

      The only laws that are usually vague, are those in a Constitution, bill of rights, or similar piece of work.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    105. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It's at +5 insightful now. Some dufuses think "troll" and "flamebait" mean "I disagree with this post". I got a page of "comment moderations" a little while ago that was filled with troll and flamebait mods. Clicking on the comments I saw that the final score on all of them was "insightful" or "interesting". So the system does seem to be working.

    106. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Being a GOOD writer is always valued.

      Of course it's not, how many of history great writers died poor and ignored?

    107. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by NateTech · · Score: 1

      Heh good point. Change that to, "always valued eventually". Maybe not while they're alive and need the money. LOL!

      --
      +++OK ATH
    108. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law should just say something brief to the extent of "no distracted driving" that encompasses all of these.

      And the naked woman on the side of the road makes a felon of every passerby... (Well, okay, the law broken would be more like a misdemeanor, but whatever somebody who commits a misdemeanor would be called)

    109. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Fair and true point, but tax law(there's other people that deal with that, along with a specialized section in our criminal code) isn't something that I'd ever deal with. Now if you ask me about booze, tobacco or housing/property law well...now that's a bit closer.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    110. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by rantingkitten · · Score: 1

      Most people I know spend every minute they're at the computer wishing that the software they have to use was better, smarter, more efficient and more adapted to their way of working.

      Actually most people I know either go "I'm just not a computer person" and leave it at that, or think they are already experts, but have no desire to improve the software they're using, just to brag about how good they are for assigning static IPs on a Windows machine, and are happy that they know how to do those things.

      But regardless, it is still a choice. It's completely up to them if they want to invest the time and effort into learning programming and making a difference. Most people do the cost-benefit calculation, decide it's not worth it, and that's fine.

      In fact, there's nothing that says people have to use computers at all. They make life a lot easier for most of us, but there are plenty of people who don't care, and get along fine without them.

      People do not have this luxury when it comes to matters of law. You must comply, whether you like it or not. Educated or not, we're all supposed to obey the law.

      Finally, failure to understand programming means some idle whining that the menus on this program suck, or that application takes too long to load. Failure to understand law means you get trapped with severe penalties for not abiding by rules you didn't even know existed. Be realistic.

      --
      mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
    111. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by quadrox · · Score: 1

      Your two arguments about the right to bear arms are utter bullshit (no offense, but they are).

      The sentence is quite specific in allowing all people to bear arms. It does not make sense to interpret is only pertaining to the military, because OF COURSE the military has the right to bear arms, that is the whole point of it.

      The term militia - AFAIK - does not cover regular soldiers or possibly even the national guard. At the time the point was that everyone could be part of the "milita" on the condition that they had a weapon (or could get one). The whole point of the statement is that REGULAR soldiers are not enough to secure the freedom, because regular soldiers can be abused against the people by the government. It is precisely for that reason the amendment was made, because it is necessary for ALL people to be able to fight back when that happens.

      the 2nd amendment is as clear as it can be, anyone arguing otherwise is just trying to muddy the waters.

    112. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by AnotherUsername · · Score: 1
      I'm not sure if you read my post correctly. I actually showed both points of view.

      Here the the first argument(and the argument that you defend in your post)

      One argument says that since everyone was in the State Militia at the time, everyone should be able to bear arms.

      Here is the opposing point of view.

      Another argument says that if someone wants to bear arms, they should join the military.

      Note that I am not expressing my point of view in either part. I made sure not to in the post. I was merely using it as an example. Personally, I don't think there is any confusion. But, as there is a huge debate over the right to bear arms currently going on in America, obviously there does appear to be points of view contrary to my own. Hence, the confusion factor. I think that both sides make good points. I can see both sides of view. So please, do not confuse my explaining of the debate with my own views. Note that I did not express my point of view in this post, either.

      --
      I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
    113. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by deoxyribonucleose · · Score: 1

      Interacting with computers and software is becoming less and less a matter of choice, particularly but not exclusively in the developed world... but what I'm talking about is whether the complexity of either is necessary or not. There is essential complexity, and there's accidental complexity (which can be removed with sufficient genious).

      Sure, many laws can be simplified, and from what I've heard of e.g. the US tax code, some laws should be tossed out and rebuilt, ground-up (although that would probably be at least on par with rebuilding the US air traffic control system, and that seems to be a walk in the park, right?). But personally, I'd prefer my judges to be somewhat constrained in their decisions. It's all a matter of trust and balance of power, y'know? Sure, a judicial system with lower complexity laws could be great, as long as the judges are wise, caring and benevolent. It's just that I know that they're people like myself that has me worried! In Sweden we actually have a jurisprudence tradition which requires judges to conform to the spirit of the law rather than the letter. The result? The law book is mostly just an index into various massive public pre-study reports ('offentliga utredningar') which have precedence over the actual wording in the law... but can be quite ambigious.

      IANAL, but I'd be so bold as to make a claim that 98% of the statute books in most countries have no direct impact on you, personally (granted, the 2% which does will vary somewhat between people, depending on what you do for fun and for a living). Civil, criminal, administrative, constitutional laws: how many of them impact you, or just corporations, public bodies, or situations and relations you will never find yourself in? Unfortunately, some of those laws interact with laws which do impact you... but my guess is that most of those interactions are essential complexity rather than poor delimitation.

      Mind you, the bodies of laws and jurisprudence in existence in the West has been designed and built bottom-up for centuries (or millennia, since we all have at least a dash of Roman law somewhere). As with any system that has seen multiple maintainers, lots of different stakeholders with shifting concerns (several of which do not even exist in any recognizable form today), and rapid changes in its environment, the body of law is a huge mess. On the other hand it has the distinct advantage to any radical alternative that it has actually been tested, and works, at least somewhat. Ask e.g. the Russians if they are entirely happy with their own reimplementation effort of 90 years past... the French might be more satisfied with theirs, but it's had a chance to go through almost a couple of centuries of use and revision. The US created their own branch a few decades before that, but kept most of their legacy code at the time...!

    114. Re:An unemployed LAWYER was perhaps.... by quadrox · · Score: 1

      I am aware of all you are saying. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear and it seemed I was trying to attack you or your post. I was just trying to explain why I think that BOTH the arguments (for AND against) are bullshit.

      The amendment is worded very specific and clear. I can find no merit in both arguments, because they are arguing points that are utterly irrelevant to the amendment itself. In fact, I would go as far to say that both arguments completely go against the second amendment, utterly ignoring the point it was trying to make.

      If there is a debate, it must be conducted by very ignorant people or someone with an agenda.

      Please not that I am not an US resident.

  2. The state is correct by Antiocheian · · Score: 1, Troll

    Unemployment benefits are meant to help people with no income.

    Others are getting much more than $238 through web ads. Should they be running for unemployment benefits too?

    1. Re:The state is correct by Jurily · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unemployment benefits are meant to help people with no income.

      ...in the traditional sense of income: you either work or run a business. Microtransactions aren't really included in that model.

    2. Re:The state is correct by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Business owners are exempt from unemployment pay. This lawyer's $1 a month income could be considered a poorly-run business but still a business. What I'm curious to know is who reported her. Sounds like a real dick.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:The state is correct by Volante3192 · · Score: 4, Informative

      She reported herself. She was being a good person and reporting ALL income. The rare breed who'd probably pay local state tax on items purchased out of state.

      From the Forbes article (it's linked from the linked article): When the check came in, Karin realized she had a legal obligation to disclose the income to New York State, even though doing so might reduce the weekly unemployment benefits she received.

    4. Re:The state is correct by gnick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right - She's self-employed. Just like that guy you walk-past every day who holds up a cardboard sign asking for help and eats dog food.

      In fairness though, it sounds like his business model is better than hers.

      Memo to self - If I'm ever unfortunate enough to need unemployment, do NOT let ANYONE pay me for ANYTHING.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    5. Re:The state is correct by knightf0x · · Score: 4, Funny

      So an honest lawyer...I guess it is true then. 99% of lawyers make the rest of them look bad.

    6. Re:The state is correct by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      She sounds like a very nice person.

      I don't think she understands what it is that lawyers do though.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    7. Re:The state is correct by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1

      Is that a state by state thing? This issue has me seriously scared. The revenue (not much, a couple hundred a month) from one of my sites goes into a business checking account that is basically setup as a sole proprietorship (in IL). If I've been collecting unemployment because I don't have an actual job, while earning revenue from that site, am I fucked? What is my best course of action if that is the case? I don't even know what sort of lawyer would deal with this kind of law.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    8. Re:The state is correct by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>do NOT let ANYONE pay me for ANYTHING.

      You can still mow grass and get paid - you just can't tell anyone about it. Not that I would know anything about that. Nope. Nada. Nah-uh.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    9. Re:The state is correct by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unemployment benefits are meant to help people with no income.

      Unemployment benefits are for people who are... unemployed.

      That she has some income shouldn't prevent benefits, especially when that income is next to nothing. She was averaging $30 a month, that's not exactly making ends-meet. Stripping her benefits for such a low sum would be akin to stripping unemployment benefits because someone bought you lunch.

      I would feel differently if she were running a blog as a business, or if that blog brought in more money than unemployment would bring in. If you have already determined that there is a minimum amount of money a person should recieve while looking for another job, any supplimental income should simply reduce the benefits by whatever the supplimental income is, untill the difference is negative - i.e. making more money with the suppliment than full unemployment would give. Then it is simply re-classified as the primary income and you are considered self-employed.

      To look at it another way, do they strip your unemployment because you're earning 2% in a savings account? I should hope not. That's what this is closer to. Either way, she was still unemployed, not even self-employed. She paid for the unemployment insurance, she should be able to collect it when she is unemployed.

      I hope she puts ad-sense back up before she is slashdotted, that could make up for a lot of the shit NYC is pulling here.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    10. Re:The state is correct by HangingChad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Others are getting much more than $238 through web ads. Should they be running for unemployment benefits too?

      Don't be such a dumbass. All they had to do was deduct $238 from one of her checks, but there's no option to do that with unemployment. The second you report any income, regardless of the source, you're employed. So if you take a contract job and get let go a month later, not only does unemployment stop paying you but then they'll turn around and claim you haven't been on the new job long enough to collect benefits. Too bad, buddy. You can't even collect the balance of benefits you were due.

      So there's is absolutely zero incentive for people on unemployment to take what work they can find. If they would encourage people to take part-time and temporary jobs, deducting what they make from their benefit check so they don't lose money working, but restoring their benefits if those jobs fall through, then more people would be out working.

      But the system we have today punishes people trying to do the right thing. Don't defend a broken system. They could use unemployment to encourage people go out and start a business, instead they discriminate against people wanting to work but unable to find a permanent job that lasts longer than 3 months.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    11. Re:The state is correct by sexconker · · Score: 1

      You collect unemployment.
      You have unreported earnings.

      If you get caught, you're fucked.

      Your best course of action would have been to post as AC.

      Oh well, might as well turn yourself in now.

    12. Re:The state is correct by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hmmmm.

      I wonder if selling used games and videos on ebay constitutes income? I could probably argue "I paid $20 but only sold it for $10, so that's a loss not an income," but a lot of hassle. Maybe I won't be doing my annual Christmas clean-out/sale after all.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    13. Re:The state is correct by BenSchuarmer · · Score: 1

      Unemployment benefits are meant to help people with no income.

      I don't think so. Laws vary from state to state, but in Oregon you can draw Unemployment if you've been laid off and get a part time job.

      Each week you have to tell them how many hours you worked and how much you got paid. If it's less than 40 hours then they deduct a percentage of what you make from your compensation. You can't make more than half of your fully employed salary this way, but it can help pay the bills.

    14. Re:The state is correct by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

      So...out of curiousity, how many lawyers do you actually know and what do they make?

      Maybe look up in your yellow pages for some local ones without the fancy one page ads and ask them.

      if the other poster is correct that she dutifully *reported* the blogging income, and is a lawyer, meaning she should be able to quickly know the ins and outs of the law
      A divorce lawyer should know all the ins and outs of patent law then?

      Take that axe and grind it where it belongs: the bureaucrats.

    15. Re:The state is correct by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Informative

      They didn't stop her checks. They merely reduced the payout to reflect her new "part time but not fully employed" status. Unfortunately rather than subtracting $1 each month they subtract a percentage - about 33% - off your check.

      That's why she removed the ads, so she can go back to getting full checks instead of ~66% checks.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    16. Re:The state is correct by slack_justyb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Microtransactions aren't really included in that model.

      Says who? This is where our dated laws really show. Income is income and until we start looking at changing the law to better match what the population thinks is income, we're at a stalemate on the issue. I think this just highlights the lack of change that is going on in our country (US), I can't speak for anyone else.

    17. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So an honest lawyer...I guess it is true then.

      Yes--she is unemployed!

    18. Re:The state is correct by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Seriously, unemployed lawyers should open a business to let people literally f*** them in the ass for $100 a pop.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    19. Re:The state is correct by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Well, I remember right-wing whining about the Americans With Disabilities Act, which basically rewarded law firms that went out and found violations by cutting them in on the fine, as part of the law itself.

      I wonder what % of lawfirm money that was, and now that that "low hanging fruit" is mostly dried up, what effect that has on the number of needed lawyers. Now multiply times many other laws...

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    20. Re:The state is correct by DriedClexler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, I know three lawyers off the top of my head: one charges $250/hour in Denver, another $130/hour near Denver, the other $400/hour in Houston.

      When you have a job where the work is sporadic but you make a lot *per hour*, it's just the nature of the beast that you're supposed to be fucking *saving* for the predictable dry spells.

      Another example of this phenonemon is stage hands in Hollywood who make a lot per hour on each film, but (predicably!) work only a fraction of the year, and get to claim unemployment insurance based on high per-hour earnings over that time between productions. Complete abuse of the system.

      A divorce lawyer should know all the ins and outs of patent law then?

      Not *immediately*, no, but they're more familiar with how to navigate statutes to find out what is and isn't legal, easier access to such databases, etc., where the common man has to get accustomed to the task first. You know, that's what law school is fucking for.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    21. Re:The state is correct by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2, Informative

      If one believed in this kind of "safety net", the obvious decision would be to cut some fraction of a dollar per earned dollar, until the benefit evaporated.

      In this way, you'd have much less of the "ah, to hell with it, I'll stay unemployed" crap going on.

      Oh, I knew a guy who'd work six months, get "fired" to go on unemployment six months, then back to work, whatever the minimum amount of time was to keep this up in perpetuity. He was rather proud of this. He was the foreman of my factory sweeping crew I worked on in summers during college.

      Regardless of anything else, there are plenty of people for whom that level of subsistence is A-Ok. Any actual scientific studies to determine the percentage? Note: sob stories don't count.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    22. Re:The state is correct by Cyner · · Score: 1

      Most people on umemployment still make interest income (though it might be $0.20/yr) from their bank account too.

      Umemployment is supposed to suppliment you're income between jobs. The law is poorly written; it should be the case that her "income" was simply subtracted from her unemployment amount each month.

      --
      FreeBSD.org - The power to serve
    23. Re:The state is correct by Bakkster · · Score: 1

      I feel like I'm pointing out the elephant in the living room here, but wtf is up with a lawyer collecting unemployment checks? That is the dickish behavior. Unemployment insurance is supposed to be for people on hard times due to losing their jobs. When you make as much as a lawyer does, you should be doing something called "saving money" -- it shouldn't be much of a hardship for you, given that part-time elected officials (such as in state legislatures that don't work the full year) tend to be lawyers because they can so easily take a lot of unpaid time off from work.

      Since the summary is poorly written and you didn't RTFA (of course):

      She was just out of college, and this was her first law job. She worked there for 6 months and then was laid off. Unable to afford rent in NYC, she had moved and was looking for work out of state (it is legal to collect from NYC because it was her place of last employment). That's exactly who unemployment is supposed to help.
      She did not own a firm, was not using this to collect money for a sabbatical, and does not have another job lined up.

      Your complaints are valid issues with the system, but not for this particular person. This is probably the bigger problem: people who really do need unemployment getting disqualified for strange reasons, despite still not being employed.

      --
      Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
    24. Re:The state is correct by HangingChad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not exactly what the article says.

      ...eventually an "investigation" into her "business" -- during which time her unemployment benefits were stopped entirely.

      They cut her off until she had a hearing. That's the way it is here, too. Any income will trigger the cut off, then you have to fight to get them back. And, just like in her case, they'll do absolutely everything they can to dick people around.

      Some of our volunteer firefighters have the same problem. At the end of the year the department gives them a gas money check. If they report that as income, the state cuts off their benefits. If they don't report it, the state accuses them of trying to hide income. For some people those benefits are the only thing keeping them from starving. The entire system is the functional equivalent of the current health care system. So I'm certain if anyone dared stand up to try and get a better safety net for the unemployed, the teabirthers would be out screaming about government take overs.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    25. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      yes, speaking from experience, you are fucked. if they find out. which they will eventually it might take years but they will come back after you to try and recover the “unemployment funds you stole from them”.

      good luck.

      it is not the unemployment office’s job to find you work, it is their job to figure out how to stop giving you money any way possible and they have an unlimited number of excuses to not give you money.

      this is why there are reports in some news of “the real unemployment rate is”

      the only people the system really works for are the truly stupid and the truly dishonest.

      disclaimer: i am ‘self-employed’, have been for 7+ years. i can’t put any money into unemployment insurance, which saves me a bit, but i will never get a dime out either no matter how unemployed i might be i will never be part of the statistics. i’m considered employed, no matter how much money i bleed, until i get a W-2 job and get laid off from it.

    26. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you should just get a job.

    27. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't even know what sort of lawyer would deal with this kind of law.

      Hey, I do know one with good experience with this kind of law. She currently lives in St. Louis, Mo., and is a former New York resident. And she's actually looking for a job, by the way ...

    28. Re:The state is correct by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      Oh. Okay. Mea culpa suprema. Plus, props for her not hogging up valuable NYC real estate while claiming poverty.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    29. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm currently collecting unemployment and working a part time job. In Minnesota, they take 55% of your gross earnings from your job, deduct that from what you would get for unemployment and pay you the rest of your unemployment. After taxes, I'm making about $3/hr at my job, but it will extend my unemployment benifits until I can get a full time job. All you have to do is work less than 32 hours a week and you can still collect. At least some states have it right!

    30. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funnily, the Irish right-wing specifically banned the practice.

    31. Re:The state is correct by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

      Actually unemployment doesn't pay that much, I once took a $9/hr help desk job to find out that Unemployment paid just a bit more than that. I couldn't afford very much on unemployment or that $9/hr job. I got a $50,000 a year programmer job soon after that. Unemployment allows you to try a job, and if you don't like it or it doesn't pay much, a person can quit it and go back on unemployment by filing papers. Yes any income you get is considered a job, and they do count advertising for blogs or collecting donations from friends and family members as income as well.

      Unemployment is working like an insurance, not socialism. People on unemployment are supposed to be looking for work in order to stay on unemployment and at least report four to six jobs applied for per week. But Unemployment sometimes slacks off on the job application checks, but does not slack off when the unemployed starts to earn any sort of money.

      If a person is earning money via a blog, I think they are considered to be self-employed. Doesn't Google file a 1099 Form if the person earns enough money to file it on their taxes? In my experience blog advertising doesn't earn that much money, and even what little you earn gets taxed a lot as well. I think Unemployment considered her to be working at least part-time for that under $300 income, even if it looks like a joke to most people to earn that little in a year and $1 a month salary.

      --
      Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
    32. Re:The state is correct by SirWhoopass · · Score: 3, Informative

      That depends entirely on the particular state.

      In Minnesota, you could turn around after that one-month temporary job and receive benefits from the first job (assuming you did not already exhaust them). Also, part-time work will reduce benefits dollar-for-dollar until you exceed 32 hours a week (or make more money from part-time work than you'd receive on unemployment).

      As you point out, the real problem here is a system with idiotic rules, not her honesty in reporting $238.

    33. Re:The state is correct by DaveGod · · Score: 1

      Under UK tax law it would be exempt. It's not carrying on a trade, there's no intent to profit. Certain other things are specifically exempt even if you do make a 'profit' - like your primary residence. There can be grey areas like classic cars, some of which can be classified as an investment (and some do make good ones).

      In the OP the income is typical of a trade. The lawyer could probably claim expenses sufficient to show a loss, but as it's effectively a self-employed trade (good or bad is not relevant) unemployment benefits go out the window. OK, here in the UK you can still claim but you need to prove the profit and it is deducted from the benefits, it's administered differently to normal benefits.

    34. Re:The state is correct by sribe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So if you take a contract job and get let go a month later, not only does unemployment stop paying you but then they'll turn around and claim you haven't been on the new job long enough to collect benefits. Too bad, buddy. You can't even collect the balance of benefits you were due.

      You, and the people who find your post insightful, should realize that unemployment regulations vary from state to state. Colorado, for instance, is far more rational than what you describe, coming close in several aspects to how you say it should work. (BTW, I agree with your post, just pointing out that not all states are so stupid!)

    35. Re:The state is correct by innocent_white_lamb · · Score: 1

      ...in the traditional sense of income: you either work or run a business.
       
      There's still nothing new. Avon and Amway aren't "get enough to live on" businesses either. I don't see the difference between selling 3 lipsticks and a box of perfume, and $238 from Google Adsense for your blog.
       
      "It's on the Internet so it must be new"....

      --
      If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
    36. Re:The state is correct by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The difference between the homeless guy holding a sign and the woman with a blog, is that the woman with a blog has a legal contract with Google that reports income on a 1099 form that Unemployment and the Government can check for income.

      If she held up a sign in the streets that said "Will do legal work for food/change." and she had a solicitor's license she would earn food and cash, and earning cash for payment is one form of income the government and unemployment cannot track. She is legally supposed to report any income she receives even in cash, but many just work for cash off the books and still collect unemployment. Just that you cannot do that with a legal contract with Google that gives you a 1099 tax form that reports income on and the contract says you are self-employed and Google is paying you as a contractor for your web advertising with them.

      The Homeless man has no contract and no 1099 form, so he could earn a million dollars in cash and the government would not even know it, unless he reported it. But I doubt many homeless men earn more than $300 a year or month.

      --
      Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
    37. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If she is a lawyer she is likely considered and independent consultant, i.e. self employed, just by profession.

      The revocation of unemployment funds may have nothing to do with adsense income.

      As an independent contractor, it doesn’t matter if I make $1/month from Google or lose $2000/month from not working— I am still not considered unemployed nor do I ever qualify for unemployment benefits.

      I think it is likely a non-story by someone who doesn’t know how the system works.

    38. Re:The state is correct by obarel · · Score: 1

      And leave that penny on the floor...

    39. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note that what you describe (reducing benefits by the amount of part-time wages earned) is exactly what Ohio does. Not sure if any other states work like that...

    40. Re:The state is correct by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can save money no matter how much you make. Saying "I don't make enough to save" is bullshit. People who make under 20k per year. In most areas you can rent for around $500 per month - it may be a shithole but it's a place to live (in some areas $500 gets you a damn fine apartment). That's about $6k per year. You can eat well for about $20-25 per week if you buy the right foods, which ads up to around $1000 per year for food. If you wanted to live on ramen you could cut that down to under $250 per year, but I don't advise it, you'll be malnourished in short order. Give another $3000 per year for things like laundry, clothes (you ARE buying cheap walmart clothes instead of those designer jeans, right?) and other miscelaneous expenses, and you've got $10,000 per year that a person making $20,000 per year can save. Even with minimum wage you can still save $3k per year. Anybody can get a minimum wage job, even in this economy. Most anybody can manage a second, part time job as well.

      The problem people have is they think "extras" are necessities. Cell phone? Luxury item. Car? Yeah, it's a luxury too. TV? Cable? Internet? All luxuries. Making more money only makes this problem worse, as people tend to buy more and more luxuries instead of saving the extra, like they should.

      Back to the unemployment issue, what is really disturbing, is that the unemployment benefits are all or nothing. The fact that they don't care if your supplimental income doesn't come close to what even unemployment benifits provide is stupid, and isn't exactly a good way of encouraging someone to find a new job. This all or nothing nonsense needs to go. Just adjust the unemployment to take into account the supplimental income - adjusting it up until the supplimental income is greater than the unemployment benefit, at which point the benifit goes away entirely.

      The fact is, if she was a high-paid lawyer before she lost her job, chances are she paid more in unemployment insurance while she was working than people making under $20k even made, and she deserves some of that back when she falls on hard times. Cutting her out for $1 per day is utter bullshit and you know it.

      This attitude of "You're rich, you should support me" is exactly the attitude that keeps poor people poor (and getting poorer) and rich people rich (and getting richer). How about we take a little responsibility for ourselves, and do away with unemployment insurance altogether, huh?

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    41. Re:The state is correct by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      All they had to do was deduct $238 from one of her checks, but there's no option to do that with unemployment. The second you report any income, regardless of the source, you're employed.

      Not where I live. If I made $50 when I was laid off, my unemployment check would be $50 less and that $50 would remain available to me for later claims.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    42. Re:The state is correct by evil_aar0n · · Score: 1

      Methinks you should've replied anonymously. They _can_ still come after you.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    43. Re:The state is correct by afidel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Another example of this phenonemon is stage hands in Hollywood who make a lot per hour on each film, but (predicably!) work only a fraction of the year, and get to claim unemployment insurance based on high per-hour earnings over that time between productions. Complete abuse of the system.

      Not sure what unemployment is like in the peoples republic but here in Ohio the max payout is $502 per week and that's for a family of 4 that previously made at least $52k/year. From that $502/week you get to pay federal and state taxes so your takehome is probably about $400/week, not exactly something that is going to make you rich. If the production company routinely lays off people then they are definitely paying for (at least some large percentage of) those wages in the form of unemployment insurance so just consider it part of their compensation package.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    44. Re:The state is correct by dmorris68 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some of you are treating unemployment benefits like some form of communal welfare, like the regular welfare program. While it is considered a form of social welfare by the strict definition, it is specifically funded by employers as part of payroll taxes. Both Federal and State unemployment taxes are paid by every employer for each full-time employee they have, and act as insurance premiums. Not only that, but to qualify for benefits in the first place, you have to lose your job through no fault of your own. People who get fired for cause have no claim to benefits, even though while employed there were taxes paid on their behalf.

      I have no problem with this lawyer drawing benefits, regardless of what her income might have been. And despite the common misconception, not all doctors and lawyers make a killing -- there was an article on CNN just the other day about an MD who makes more selling clothes on eBay ($120K) than their doctor's salary (<$120K), so she quit her doctor job to stay home with her kids and continue the eBay business. That may sound like a lot of money to some of you, but damned if I'd go through medical school, internship, years of residency, continuing education, ever increasing malpractice premiums, etc. for $120K a year.

      So, everyone should be entitled to draw the benefits that were paid in on their behalf as long as they're attempting to find work. And in most states I'm aware of (or had unemployment experience in), you're allowed to look for work commensurate with your experience, position, and income levels while drawing your benefits. For example, computer programmers are not expected to choose between unemployment benefits and flipping burgers -- they're allowed to hold out for a similar job in the computer field, as long as they demonstrate that they're actively seeking such work. Along the same lines, in many states, you also draw benefits that are proportional to your former salary (and thus proportional to the taxes paid to fund your benefits), so everyone doesn't draw the same amount.

      The trick is, if you do decide to take that McD's job (or mow lawns, or consult, or whatever) to try and get closer to your customary income level, then that constitutes employment and now you've given up your unemployment benefits, and my not be able to re-qualify if you voluntarily cease that employment. So if you intend to draw benefits, don't do ANYTHING that would constitute income, no matter how minor.

    45. Re:The state is correct by afidel · · Score: 1

      That's exactly how Ohio law works:
      You must report earnings for services performed and any income paid or payable to you while you are claiming unemployment benefits.

      If you work part-time or perform odd jobs during the weeks for which you file for unemployment benefits, you may still be paid unemployment benefits if your gross earnings are less than your weekly benefit amount. You must report gross earnings for the week (Sunday through Saturday) in which it is earned, even if you have not yet been paid.

      If your earnings are less than your weekly benefit amount, Ohio law allows you an exemption of 20 percent your weekly benefit amount before a deduction is made.
      linky

      I'm actually surprised NY law is different in that it is the logical way to encourage people to attempt to get off the dole.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    46. Re:The state is correct by evil_aar0n · · Score: 1

      I once applied for unemployment and had this dour man tell me about all sorts of things that would disqualify me from unemployment if I did them, and I remember laughing at him, at some point, just because of the extreme ridiculousness of some of their stipulations. He said, very matter of factly, that it was no laughing matter; they would, at the very least, stop my benefits, among other things, if they found out that I engaged in any of those things. Simple things like work an hour a week, or whatever it was at the time.

      I would take this seriously, and contact a labor lawyer. It shouldn't be hard to find one. At worst, you can call any local law office and they can probably recommend someone, if they don't do it themselves.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    47. Re:The state is correct by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      I wonder if selling used games and videos on ebay constitutes income?

      No, that's capital gains.

      It needs to be reported, but not as regular income. And as you mentioned, it was at a loss (but probably not, once depreciation is figured in). If you're moving a lot of stuff, hire a tax accountant. Sounds like you're just moving a few odds-and-ends... in which case, check with your state unemployment office. You can always call anonymously...

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    48. Re:The state is correct by evil_aar0n · · Score: 1

      Time for a better /. analogy: I know / work with quite a few people who program in C daily for their paychecks, but couldn't figure out Perl, sh, Python, etc. if their lives depended on it.

      --
      Truth, Justice. Or the American Way.
    49. Re:The state is correct by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      Correct, except for the bit where they subsequently stopped her checks when they decided to "investigate" her "business" - apparently the the NY Department of Labor does not believe in "innocent until proven guilty".

    50. Re:The state is correct by schlick · · Score: 1

      Another example of this phenonemon is stage hands in Hollywood who make a lot per hour on each film, but (predicably!) work only a fraction of the year, and get to claim unemployment insurance based on high per-hour earnings over that time between productions. Complete abuse of the system.

      You are full of crap here. California un-employment is not based on hourly wage. It is based on quarterly income from specific quarters.

      --
      "It's because they're stupid, that's why. That's why everybody does everything." -Homer Simpson
    51. Re:The state is correct by cthulu_mt · · Score: 1

      Sounds like being dependent on the government for your bread is great. Constantly jerked around by bureaucrats. Let's go ahead and expand the system even further.

      And before you start in with the ad hominem, the President was born right here in the US. Asshole.

      --
      Virginia is for lovers. EVE is for griefers.
    52. Re:The state is correct by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      Um, I know three lawyers off the top of my head: one charges $250/hour in Denver, another $130/hour near Denver, the other $400/hour in Houston.

      That hourly rate includes all their overhead.

      It's not like the lawyer that bills out at $250/hr is clearing $250/hr. Once you factor in their overheard, it's much, much less. And what if they aren't billing 40 hours a week?

      Sure, abuse happens. But I know a programmer who was getting paid $125 an hour and had *zero* overhead to pay and is currently collecting unemployment. I'd bet my house that he cleared more than the lawyer who was billing out a $250/hr.

      Should someone making $120,000 a year collect unemployment if they are laid off? I don't know -- probably not -- $120,000 a year sounds like a lot, right?. Except a lot of those schlubs have $2500/mo mortgage payments on a 3-BR house. And their net pay (assuming spouse & 2 kids) is something like $95,000 -- around $8k a month. Car, mortgage, insurance, food, utilities, clothes, saving for college, saving for retirement... all the sudden, that $8k is gone. Setting aside cash for a 12-month cushion? Not so easy.

      I think everyone should be eligible for unemployment regardless of income prior to unemployment. Just cap the amount they can receive equally. An unemployed line-order cook should get the same unemployment as an unemployed lawyer. If the lawyer wants to live a nice lifestyle while they are unemployed, they should have saved. Otherwise they can live at the subsistence level like the poor.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    53. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 1

      surely, if he sold it for less than he paid for it, it's not a capital gain at all. When you buy and sell shares, you have capital gains on the profit you make by selling shares for more than you paid for them, not just on any cash you get paid for shares. (IANATL)

      --
      FGD 135
    54. Re:The state is correct by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      So if they stupidly took on obligations (like a big mortgage) predicated on perpetual continuation of their lavish salary, we should prop up their fantasy world? Hell no! The whole reason we're in this economic mess is because people assume the good times last forever. So I'm making decent money and can afford the teaser monthly payments on a mansion? Why not! After all, it's not like they payments could ever possibly go down or I could lose my job that I have an inalienable right to.

      Why can't people take two minutes to consider that demand for their current labor might not be an ironclad law of the universe and actually think two months ahead?

      And the overhead doesn't make those lawyer numbers "much much less". And of course they may not fill the hours in a week -- that was my point about saving if your income is high and volatile like that!

      If I took the number my company bills out my labor for, it's about 4 times my salary, but that's just because of the way of accounting. Lawyers aren't paying 75% of their rate to overhead.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    55. Re:The state is correct by gander666 · · Score: 1

      Wow, not all lawyers work in firms that pay by the hour. I know one lawyer, a public defender, doing it for the love of the work (because that is clearly not a path to mega-riches) who certainly makes less per hour than I do, and certainly would deserve unemployment if they were rif'd.

      Just because you know lawyers with huge hourly billable rates doesn't make them all like that.

      I like telling lawyer jokes as much as anyone, but some of them are not blood sucking leaches.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    56. Re:The state is correct by baegucb · · Score: 1

      I've heard of a lawyer in New York who specializes in these type of issues. Dunno if she's licensed in your state though.

    57. Re:The state is correct by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      You can save money no matter how much you make. Saying "I don't make enough to save" is bullshit. People who make under 20k per year. In most areas you can rent for around $500 per month - it may be a shithole but it's a place to live (in some areas $500 gets you a damn fine apartment). That's about $6k per year. You can eat well for about $20-25 per week if you buy the right foods, which ads up to around $1000 per year for food. If you wanted to live on ramen you could cut that down to under $250 per year, but I don't advise it, you'll be malnourished in short order. Give another $3000 per year for things like laundry, clothes (you ARE buying cheap walmart clothes instead of those designer jeans, right?) and other miscelaneous expenses, and you've got $10,000 per year that a person making $20,000 per year can save. Even with minimum wage you can still save $3k per year. Anybody can get a minimum wage job, even in this economy. Most anybody can manage a second, part time job as well.

      Dude, you need to have your eyes opened, forcefully if need be.

      You think there are minimum-wage jobs available everywhere, for anyone? You're delusional.

      Oh, you're too sick to come into work today? That's twice this year. You're fired.

      Let's look at this realistically:

      $20,000 a year is approximately 1700 a month. Rent: $500. Utilities: $50 (and that's generously low for most climes). Food: $100 (by your estimate -- I think it would be very hard for someone to have a proper diet at that price). Transportation costs (car, mass transit, etc): $100-200 (again, generously low estimate). Laundry, clothes, etc: $250 (by your estimate, and let's also assume this includes entertainment). Right there that's over $1000, but let's just say that the $1000 a month is all that's spent. So your hypothetical earner has $700 left over each month to save. But uh-oh... the car breaks down. There's $X to fix it, or $Y to buy another beater. And uh-oh, he has a toothache. That's $100-600 for an extraction (depending on type of tooth, etc). Meanwhile $750 is tied up in a deposit on the shithole apartment. And now a parent dies and you need to fly to wherever, there's another few hundred.

      Open your eyes. Living on $20000 a year is a miserable existence, and one bad-luck-event from abject poverty. Forget raising kids at that income. There is no reason why, in a modern society, we cannot provide for those less fortunate. Note that unemployment insurance has a time limit... so it's not some kind of permanent welfare.

      How about we get rid of the ridiculous salaries at the high end, where board-members vote to pay their executives huge amounts of cash (knowing full well that the favor is returned by the board of the company where they are the CxO)? Where top executives get bonuses for laying workers off? This is

      the attitude that keeps poor people poor (and getting poorer) and rich people rich (and getting richer)

      I agree that there needs to be a higher level of personal responsibility. But here's the thing: You're living in a dreamworld if you think that a social safety net is not a good thing. Consumer spending is very important to the entire economy, and if you have no safety net, then even those who have been saving get screwed. This is one of the lessons of the Great Depression.

      You want to know why the poor get poorer and the rich get richer? Because the poor have almost no power to climb the economic ladder. It's a myth that people can bootstrap themselves into the wealthy classes. The only way to do so is to take great risks... and for every success story you read about, there are countless failures.

      I know, I'm digressing, but social mobility is a joke when there is no safety net.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    58. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not so much. In most states (states vary, of course), if you took a contract job for a month, you'd lose the unemployment for that month, but when the contract job ended, you'd go back to collecting unemployment, based on the job you had that qualified you for unemployment in the first place.

    59. Re:The state is correct by lgw · · Score: 1

      In many states that isn't true, because the unemployment insurance program is seen as a way to prevent skilled workers from crashing the unskilled job market during hard times. Unemployment paying more than mininmum wage, and taking it all away if you work at all, is seen as a feature, not a bug.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    60. Re:The state is correct by SETIGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sounds like being dependent on the government for your bread is great. Constantly jerked around by bureaucrats. Let's go ahead and expand the system even further.

      Or we could privatize it, the way health care is private, because getting jerked around by for-profit insurance company bureaucrats is so much better than getting jerked around by government bureaucrats.

    61. Re:The state is correct by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      What is my best course of action if that is the case?

      Get a job. I know people who are barely literate and still able to get jobs, even during economic crisis, so I'm sure you can too. The problem is usually not "I can't get a job" but "I can't get a job I want". There are plenty of places always hiring, fast foot restaurants, Wallmarts etc and the best course of action is to find one of those until something better comes along. If you think that's beneath you, then how is not beneath you to accept the benefits money paid by taxes of those people who do work in those jobs and worse?

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    62. Re:The state is correct by wrp103 · · Score: 1

      In PA, you can make up to $200 a week (depending on what you were making) without it affecting your unemployment benefits. If you go over the limit, the amount in excess is deducted from your benefits check for that period.

      This allows people on unemployment to look for part-time work, which might turn into full-time work, and thus take them off unemployment benefits. Of course, in this economy ...

    63. Re:The state is correct by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      If I took the number my company bills out my labor for, it's about 4 times my salary, but that's just because of the way of accounting. Lawyers aren't paying 75% of their rate to overhead.

      That's not "just because of the way of accounting". Let's assume your company makes, oh, a nice thick 25% net margin. This means they are clearing in profit the same that you are getting paid (if they are billing out at 400% your pay). This also means that their overhead is twice your salary. I don't know what you get paid... but overheads for legal firms are surely higher than what you're paying. Do you have an admin assistant? Your own office/cube, or do you work at a client site? Never mind that the margin to the owners of your company is likely smaller than the margin a lawyer pays to the partners of the firm (the lawyer is being dangled partnership-in-the-future as part of their compensation. You are not).

      You're grossly uninformed of what a starting lawyer gets paid. Median pay for a lawyer 9 months post-graduation (only counting those with jobs) in 2005 was $60,000. That's not enough income to buy a 1-bedroom condo in many parts of the country.

      Maybe you're thinking of mid-career lawyers in private practice as partners or in business law in senior management. That's not what I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of early-career lawyers who are struggling to pay off student loans, driving a 10-year-old Honda Civic or Ford Escort, and sharing a shitty apartment in a college town or their state capital (this is generally what young lawyers are like in my experience).

      It boils down to this: there is a need for personal responsibility. But there is also a need for a social safety net. And despite what you believe, most young lawyers are not rolling in dough.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    64. Re:The state is correct by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      I think everyone should be eligible for unemployment regardless of income prior to unemployment.

      Didn't we dump tea over the opposite? (I.e., "taxation without representation" =~ "taxation without recompense".)

      I mean, if you're paying into the unemployment system, and significantly more so the more you make, what possible sense can it make to say "you made too much, no unemployment for you"?

      None, as far as I can tell. But I live in MA, where you can be fined for not having health insurance...

      And while I can agree that there should be some sort of cap, when that cap means that I can never possibly take out the amount that I put in, then that means that I'm subsidizing other citizens when they are unemployed, and that makes even less sense. Unless we just up and admit that USA is Socialism.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    65. Re:The state is correct by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      I know someone that had the same thing happen. Being honest screwed her.

      In Canada, immigrating is really clogged right now. The only way to get a caregiver from say.. the Philippines, is to have an agent bring them in.

      This takes about 3 years, so if an elderly person needs a caregiver, they apply for one and get a totally different one ASAP. Then when their caregiver comes in, that person goes to someone else. Despite this "bending" of the rules, there's still more demand than supply - and that's with elderly people keeling over dead all the time. (some while they wait)

      Our blessed conservative government decided that it should be illegal to charge for the service of bringing people in. This is despite there being very real costs - paperwork, plane tickets, etc., which are all paid by the agent up front. (And then the agent gets repaid over time)

      Most agents don't report their income. The one I know does. She was told to reimburse all the caregivers she was bringing in, or she'd face jail time.

      Unfortunately, she's really good, and thus really busy. She gets them all set up here and makes sure to educate them about costs, so that they don't end up with maxed out credit cards and $5k phone bills - all for barely more than it costs her.

      For her job well done, she's now got a mortgaged house. Oh, and grey hair.

    66. Re:The state is correct by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

      And while I can agree that there should be some sort of cap, when that cap means that I can never possibly take out the amount that I put in, then that means that I'm subsidizing other citizens when they are unemployed, and that makes even less sense.

      It's not personal insurance. It's societal insurance. You get a benefit from the subsidization of other workers, even if it's marginal aan largely unseen. If it weren't for the UI premiums you pay in, maybe you wouldn't have a job (because UI is one of the things that keeps the economy moving).

      Unless we just up and admit that USA is Socialism.

      FWIW, I think we have some small socialist aspects... and I believe we need more. Oh, I know I'll get downmodded by the rabid capitalists here for that.

      I kind of understand why 'socialism' has become a dirty word (the ties to teh evil communists!1!) but really, can't we get over it and realize that there are aspects of socialism that make good sense from both an economic and humanistic point of view?

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    67. Re:The state is correct by nosferatu1001 · · Score: 1

      Assuming it was an asset that could be depreciated, selling it for less than you paid can constitute a profit given the utility you have had from the asset.

      If you sell for above the depreciated value it is a profit.

    68. Re:The state is correct by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Oh, I completely agree that some social projects are worth pointing a gun at everyone and demanding that they contribute to them. For instance, keeping people alive (or at least frozen) until the Singularity occurs, so that we all can continue our experiences until the heat death of the universe. But then, I'm different.

      Socialism is not absolutely negative. But it makes sense for us to recognize it for what it is; depriving someone of income (or, merely property! -- witness real estate taxes, and the root of that phrase, "royal estate") at the threat of death, to benefit someone else. (No, they won't be killed immediately if they don't pay up; only if they try to defend themselves and their property.)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    69. Re:The state is correct by internettoughguy · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with "party lines", almost every other fucker in the civilized world is screaming the same thing, whether left-wing or otherwise, but morons like you will always stand up for the AstroTurfs.

    70. Re:The state is correct by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      But I doubt many homeless men earn more than $300 a year or month.

      Are you kidding me!?!? There are homeless that make enough from squeegeeing windshields, panhandling, and the like to support a hundreds-a-day crack-cocaine and heroin habit!

      Just saying.

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    71. Re:The state is correct by luke_francis2000 · · Score: 1

      This is why I love the Australian system. I have never had to use it yet, however,

      1) If you are unemployed there are already rules in place to cover small income, via an Income test , regardless of how the income was generated.
      2) If you are unemployed, they continue to pay you until you find a job. They expect you to be looking for a job k, which is gauged by an Activity Test, and your payment can be stopped if you breach those conditions

      Basically, the system supports those who need it until they get back on their feet, as long as they are doing the right thing.

    72. Re:The state is correct by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>morons like you will always stand up for the AstroTurfs.

      That's pretending that:
      1) The Republicans have any sort of ability to influence a mob whatsoever.
      2) The people in the Tea Parties are all Republican plants.

      My parents are involved with it, and the people in charge are Republican Party members. However, they are hopelessly incompetent and apparently doing everything they can to fuck up the protests, don't listen to the real grassroots people that are flooding the organization, and otherwise don't know what to do with all the popular outrage over the suicidal spending program Obama has us on.

    73. Re:The state is correct by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      If I hadn't already commented on this story you'd get my one remaining mod point. +1 Informative.

    74. Re:The state is correct by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      First off, I was talking about bare minimums. Obviously this is not the most luxurient lifestyle, but I know people who live on literally zero income and are very happy. You think living on $20k per year is rough, try making all of your own shit, growing / killing all your own food, providing for your own means of heat and subsistance. It is certainly possible (though in that case you would need land to do it on, it is not very available these days).

      You think there are minimum-wage jobs available everywhere, for anyone? You're delusional.

      I never said that, but there are minimum-wage jobs available for everyone somewhere. You may have to pack up and move somewhere else to get by, but that's life. Deal with it instead of whining. My parents today make a little over $50k per year, combined income (that's only a little over the $20k per person I used in my previous post), and they raised four happy, reasonably well-adjusted children on that income. My dad even eventually bought (half built himself) two four-plexes and brings in an aditional $1200 per month or so, excluding money saved for maintenance.

      When I say you can save, and even thrive, on a very low income, I speak from experience. It isn't some bullshit academic exercise. People can live on far, far less than they think they can, and would be capable of a lot more if they actually tried reducing what they "need" to spend.

      Utilities: $50 (and that's generously low for most climes).

      I live in Alaska, and my heat bill runs at -most- $50 a month in the dead of winter with temperatures in the -20 range, and that's with keeping the temperature around 75. I could be comfortable with a lot less, but I have a roommate who likes it warmer. That does not account for my electric bill, which is about $30 per month, but that is with a significant amount of waste (entertainment center is always drawing a current, 24/7, I watch a lot of TV when I'm home, etc). I could probably cut it down to well below $10 per month if I tried.

      Air conditioning, while nice, is not necessary. It may not be comfortable without it, but comfort is the basis for all luxuries, and kinda helps define them. Therefore, most climates could get by with a significantly lower Utility bill than mine, if they really wanted to.

      Transportation costs (car, mass transit, etc): $100-200 (again, generously low estimate).

      A vehicle is a luxury. With the push to get business people to "bike to work", it's funny that someone on a tight budget would claim a "need" for a car. Walk, bike, ride the bus. There are very few places this does not work, and it certainly doesn't cost $100 per month. A bicycle will run you around $100, and in most cities will get you where you want to go only a little slower than a car would. Mine is a little worse than average, but it doesn't take more than 45 minutes to go all the way across town. That would still take about 20 in a car. Bonus that you get to be healthier at the same time. Winter time is no excuse, save up and buy winter tires for your bicycle - I know a number of people who do just that.

      $50 per month for transportation is reasonable, even excessive in some cases.

      Laundry, clothes, etc: $250 (by your estimate, and let's also assume this includes entertainment).

      I did not include entertainment, that is a luxury (there are hundreds of ways to entertain yourself for free anyway), and I don't know where the hell you wash your clothes that it costs you $250 per month to do so. That's insane. I pay about $4 per week and feel like I'm getting raped in the pocket book every time I do, do you dry clean all your t-shirts or something? Even buying a pair of pants and a shirt of some kind every month, that need only add $50 or so, and I can't imagine you need that many clothes. You don't need a new outfit for every occasion, one that fits most will do fine. For new clothes, my Mom woul

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    75. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I'm certain if anyone dared stand up to try and get a better safety net for the unemployed

      It's called "saving" and "living within your means"... look it up.

      If you want a nanny-state government with no self-responsibility, I kindly request that you leave instead of turning this country into one.

    76. Re:The state is correct by afidel · · Score: 2

      Wow, I just looked it up and CA maxes at $450/week! That means a state with a 6% higher cost of living gives 12% worse benefits. Worse yet for those guys they are probably living within commute of LA so they really have an ~50% higher cost of living than most urban areas of Ohio. Anyone who thinks that receiving an extra $450/week is going to make those guys rich or make you poor is just fooling themselves. I can pretty much guarantee you that they would MUCH rather have a steady job that pays less, nothing will take years off your life faster than not knowing when your next paycheck will come in.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    77. Re:The state is correct by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 1

      The Homeless man has no contract and no 1099 form, so he could earn a million dollars in cash and the government would not even know it, unless he reported it. But I doubt many homeless men earn more than $300 a day.

      Fixed that for you.

      While solid data is hard to come by, it's estimated that $20-50 a day is average for panhandling, with some people making $300+ a day. (One couple claimed $800 in a single day.)

      --
      Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
    78. Re:The state is correct by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      I think this just highlights the lack of change that is going on in our country (US)

      What are you talking about? Late last year, we had an election that was entirely based on Change (and Hope!). And the person who was pitching it got elected, and has power over both houses of congress. And that's why we've had so much of the immediate change that was promised. So much so, of course, that just 11 days after he was elected, he was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, which of course he was awareded just the other day. So, there you have it: Lots of Hope N' Change. We're all set, now.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    79. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they would encourage people to take part-time and temporary jobs, deducting what they make from their benefit check so they don't lose money working, but restoring their benefits if those jobs fall through, then more people would be out working.

      How does that encourage people to work? You end up working and make a net of $0 because every dollar you make comes out of your unemployment. What we really need is to just eliminate all of unemployment, social security, etc. and then make the lowest tax bracket negative: If you make $0/year, the gov't pays you $10,000/year. For every $3 you make over that, the government pays you $1 less, up to $30,000, so that by the time you make $30,000/year you aren't getting a government check but neither are you paying any taxes. You solve the problem you were trying to solve and you eliminate several huge entitlement bureaucracies in the process.

    80. Re:The state is correct by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      Does that also apply to corporate welfare/bailout recipients? Or are you one of those mouth-breathing Fox News watching neo-cons who honestly believes that all social welfare is evil but rewarding those who caused bank failures was good for the nation?

    81. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SETIguy: Medicare and Medicaide pay the hospital where I work 85 cents for every dollar of care that we deliver to their patients. Know who makes up the difference? Those for-profit insurance companies that you bashed in your post. It's the "evil" insurance companies who make Medicare/Medicaide charity possible. It's the "inefficient" insurance companies who make Medicare/Medicaide underpayment possible. And as far as the difference between getting jerked around by for-profit bureaucrats versus government bureaucrats: with one of them, you have a much higher chance of being able to successfully sue them into doing the right thing, and eventually walking away from them. With the other, you don't. Care to guess which is which?

    82. Re:The state is correct by BradMajors · · Score: 1

      Actually business owners are not exempt from unemployment pay.

      To collect unemployment you must been terminated from employment. If the business owner owned a business and was also terminated from employment and his business was not making any money he could collect unemployment.

      I have a sole proprietorship, and I have collected unemployment while I did not have employment and my sole proprietorship made no money.

    83. Re:The state is correct by mrlibertarian · · Score: 1
      ...getting jerked around by for-profit insurance company bureaucrats...

      Is that really the fault of the free market?

      The real story of HMO's, of course, is one of considerable government meddling and regulation which ended in spiraling health costs which, not surprisingly, begat more government meddling and regulation.

      HMO's are part of the legacy of price and wage controls supported by "conservative" president Richard Nixon who supported them (among other ill-conceived reasons) as a means for controlling health care costs. The high costs of the early seventies were not produced by free market health care, but by the ever expanding government giveaways of Medicare and Medicaid which removed individuals from the process of making health care transactions and created a situation where third parties (i.e. government) were making the payments to health care providers. You can imagine that in a system where the consumer of health services is responsible for none of the costs, a little excess demand might result. And that was indeed the result. No longer restrained by paying for health care, patients ended up in the doctor's office for every stubbed toe and every bloody nose resulting in spiraling health care costs due to such massively inflated demand.

      -- The Myth of the Free-Market HMO.

    84. Re:The state is correct by kramerd · · Score: 1

      It constitutes a loss.

      COGS would be higher than revenue.

      The question is whether it constitutes a business. At best, you are running a not-for-profit organization where you subsidize the cost of video games for the general public, albeit on an extremely small scale. For practical purposes, you are not a sole proprietor, because it would be illegal for you to sell merchandise below cost. Since all you do is sell things, and arent involved in the manufacturing, RD, distribution, etc., this would make you a retailer. The biggest issue, is of course, that a business cannot exist for the purpose of lowering personal expenses. After all, if your business gets sued, your personal assets aren't at stake (with the exception of a sole proprietorship).

      When you aren't using inventory for personal use, then you might want to declare your business.

    85. Re:The state is correct by kramerd · · Score: 1

      There is a really simple solution for this -

      If the gas card is used for personal vehicles, then it is income.

      If the gas card is used to offset personal expenses for firefighting gas needs (say for, a firetruck), then use a business credit card to pay for the gas.

       

    86. Re:The state is correct by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      I agree on the point that this income is next to nothing, so I would have handled it differently by registering the ad revenue to an employed friend or a relative and then subtract their additional taxation.

      I just said that the state should not provide benefits to those with an income because this can be twisted to the loss of taxpayers.

      I think my comment was taken in a wrong way by some: of course she wasn't treated justly -- but I do see the reasoning of the state and I believe she can easily solve this.

    87. Re:The state is correct by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      That would allow businesses to hire workers at a low salary and let the taxpayers compensate the rest. Everyone looks happy until the unemployment benefit stops and you can no longer live with your current salary.

      I think you would have figured out what is the point of this benefit: it is to help you stay on your feet while finding a real job. The reason people take ``part-time and temporary jobs,, is that they try to find what "suits them best" crossing out manual labor and anything they would consider good enough for illegal aliens only. Doesn't matter to them if these jobs would support a family, a dignified way to live -- what matters is that they were meant for "something greater".

      And so they prefer doing temporary jobs in their university or pretending to be freelancer software developers living off small contracts and donations while time passes by.

      (There is a lot of first hand experience on my posting as you can understand)

    88. Re:The state is correct by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Maybe you should just get a job.

      Fine. Give me one and I'll take it. What's that? You don't have any jobs to offer? Well newsflash einstein - neither does anyone else! What few jobs exist have 1000 engineers each applying for them, so that my odds of landing it are 0.1%

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    89. Re:The state is correct by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Business owners are exempt from unemployment pay. This lawyer's $1 a month income could be considered a poorly-run business but still a business.

      This is not true, or at the very least, not true in every state. I pay unemployment insurance premiums on (a tiny fraction of) my salary, and if I ever shutter my business, I am legally entitled to collect unemployment.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    90. Re:The state is correct by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      disclaimer: i am ‘self-employed’, have been for 7+ years. i can’t put any money into unemployment insurance, which saves me a bit, but i will never get a dime out either no matter how unemployed i might be i will never be part of the statistics. i’m considered employed, no matter how much money i bleed, until i get a W-2 job and get laid off from it.

      It didn't save you much money, FYI. I own my own company and I am required to pay unemployment insurance on my salary (well, the first $8,000.00 of it, anyhow). If memory serves, it runs about $100/year. And yes, I am entitled to collect unemployment if my business goes under.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    91. Re:The state is correct by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Income is income

      Not if your income is from capital gains. There's less tax on capital gains.

      However, I agree -- all income should be taxed as income, including capital gains.

    92. Re:The state is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That means that you own a video game distribution center. The fact that you are poorly managing your business and operating at a loss is not the government's fault.

    93. Re:The state is correct by zolaar · · Score: 1

      ...but to qualify for benefits in the first place, you have to lose your job through no fault of your own. People who get fired for cause have no claim to benefits...

      Untrue.

      To be precise, in order to disqualify yourself from receiving benefits, the employer must be able to give sufficient evidence of "willfull misconduct" while performing your job, and evidence that said misconduct was harmful to the business.

      The definition of "misconduct" is very clear in the eyes of the law: if you usually arrive late for work, and are warned about it prior to being fired, that often constitutes misconduct. If you're fired because your employer was dissatisfied with your job performance, however, you are normally still elligible for benefits.

      This is the case in both CA and IL, and while YMMV, I doubt it's much different elsewhere. IANAL, but I've had to deal with all of this recently.

      http://www.illinoislegalaid.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.dsp_content&contentID=100

      --
      One man's constant is another man's variable.
  3. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  4. well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i mean what is unemployment if you are recieving money.. maybe a job that isnt blogging would be better for her?

    1. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Volante3192 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're unemployed. A friend gives you $20 to help move some furniture. You've now received money and are no longer unemployed.

      Yeah...that makes sense...

    2. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by WarlockD · · Score: 1

      Technically your right. Also, technically, you should report that 20 bucks you made on your 1040 as well and pay taxes on it. I worked with the Texas Workforce Commission and allot of the "on the ground" people don't put in those small amounts. The paperwork is just insane. Takes 15 minutes to fill out the paperwork and for it all to go though the channels to do that 20 dollar removal off your next check than it does to just ignore it:P

    3. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Volante3192 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So all we have to do is give everyone in the country $1/day and voila: 100% employment rate!

    4. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I stood outside Home Depot, yes. To help a prior friend -- no, unless I was in the moving business.

    5. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      You're unemployed. A friend gives you $20 to help move some furniture. You've now received money and are no longer unemployed.

      Yeah...that makes sense...

      does it make sense, No

      is it the law, Yes. (although I've never heard of a state that didn't pro-rate your unemployment)

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    6. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Coren22 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You too can support a 1st world unemployed person, all it costs is 1$ a day to feed these poor non working people.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    7. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Give every family in the country $500/week for a year. Still save money over the Economic Stimulus plan.

    8. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by vxvxvxvx · · Score: 1

      It's taxable whether or not you're in the trade or business if you receive $20 for doing some work. If you're not in the trade or business it's not subject to self employment tax. So it would end up on line 21 instead of line 12 of the 1040. Income is income from whatever source derived, and is taxable unless specifically exempted.

    9. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your solution cost $108 Billion a year. Slightly higher than the cost of the Iraq war or Health Care reform.

      Next idea?

    10. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by TerraFrost · · Score: 1

      What if you get > $10.00 interest on a bank account over the course of a year? Would unemployed people be better able to collect unemployment benefits if they emptied their bank account right after losing their job?

    11. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by sjames · · Score: 1

      Why so wasteful big spender? Make it $1/month. Since it is a gain, they are gainfully employed and need no befits at all. Every 6 months or so, they can eat!

    12. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $1 a day is quite a bit, better make it $1 a month.

    13. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be a 1099-INT (interest) not a 1099-MISC (miscellaneous income). The former would not be considered employment, as it's interest. ;)

    14. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not if they give you a "gift" rather than compensating you for helping them move.

    15. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by kramerd · · Score: 1

      No, your friend gave you a gift.

      Unless you helped your friend move 651 times during the year, in which case you would have to report the last 20 bucks (over the annual 13k exclusion) as income, or your friend would have to pay gift tax on it.

      On the other hand, if you happen to earn money by helping people move, you are employed, as a sole proprietor. You have liability for people's stuff as you move it. You definetely charge more than 20 bucks, and if you aren't mentally retarded, you incorporate to avoid personal liability.

    16. Re:well maybe the blogger shouldnt have made money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, I was just thinking of taking $100, going to the local welfare office, and handing $1 to each adult that came in claiming they were unemployed after asking them to do something trivial.

      "I'll give you a dollar to pick up this paperclip." "Okay, you're no longer unemployed, no benefits for you." ... once enough of these people realized the trap, maybe the law would change. Or I'd get the snot beat out of me.

  5. Slow news day by bzzfzz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Somebody explain to me how this is different from someone selling Avon, or selling at the local farmers' market, or moonlighting as a musician at the local dive bar, or any other similar wellspring of unemployment stupidity?

    1. Re:Slow news day by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1
      Well, here we see how unemployment benefits really help society and the economy by encouraging people to go out and do something productive instead of just sitting around collecting unemployment!

      Or, not....

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    2. Re:Slow news day by Jaysyn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So you're saying that you should be denied unemployment for fixing a friend's or family member's PCs on the side? Any hobby that happens to break even or make a small net profit? How about charity work? After all you *could* be getting paid for it, right?

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    3. Re:Slow news day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Somebody explain to me how this is different from someone selling Avon, or selling at the local farmers' market, or moonlighting as a musician at the local dive bar, or any other similar wellspring of unemployment stupidity?

      Fortunately, there is longstanding tax precedent on what constitutes a business and what constitutes a hobby. There are a number of tests to make this determination.

      Normally it's the other way around, in that the taxpayer is claiming that they are running a legitimate business, and wants to write off lots of business expenses, and the IRS claims that this isn't a real business, and disallows the deductions.

      Just apply the existing rules. No story here, except that it looks like the existing rules were misapplied.

    4. Re:Slow news day by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, you should be denied some unemployment for fixing a friends PC on the side. Remember, its your obligation to report taxable income. however, having it completely remove all of your unemployment is silly, this lady the article is about, was being honest, and it backfired on her. But yes, you should certainly claim that income. If you start doing more and more repair work, at what point do you think that you should start reporting the income?

      Hell man, the IRS has regulations in place to pay taxes on the value of things you have stolen, since that is income to you!

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    5. Re:Slow news day by WankersRevenge · · Score: 1

      Easy ... look at this job loss infographic. It is a painful reminder that we are, you know, in the middle of a recession.

    6. Re:Slow news day by LandDolphin · · Score: 3, Informative

      I beleive that working as a contract employee, if you make less than $600, you do not have to report it.

      I base this off of my previous place of employement where we would have to collect Tax information for the independant contractors we paid over $600, but did not need to worry about those we paid less than $600 a year.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    7. Re:Slow news day by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      Just apply the existing rules. No story here, except that it looks like the existing rules were misapplied.

      Noo. The IRS change the "longstanding precedent" not too long ago, and now it's based purely on profit history. If it goes 3 years without a net profit, it's a "passive activity" and not a business.

      This lawyer either REALLY messed up her taxes, or her net profit was some $200. Which isn't all THAT hard, when I'd be hard pressed to find a year of web hosting costing more than $100 for one blog.

    8. Re:Slow news day by Joe+Snipe · · Score: 2, Informative

      That was this guy's argument was and he won his fight. Same state even.

      --
      Sometimes, life itself is sarcasm...
    9. Re:Slow news day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on what the meaning of "have to" is. A payer is not required to provide tax information to the IRS for a payee who is a corporation or who was paid less that $600.

      The payee is required to report all income received, even if it's only $599 from each of 1000 clients.

    10. Re:Slow news day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is different than the things you mention because even working at McDonalds would bring in more than $1 a day.

    11. Re:Slow news day by GasparGMSwordsman · · Score: 1

      I beleive that working as a contract employee, if you make less than $600, you do not have to report it.

      You forgot to put the sentence, in my jurisdiction . The person in the story receives unemployment benefits from the State of New York. In that jurisdiction she was required to report the income according to the article (also according to the attorney of which the story is about).

      Just because that is how it works where YOU live, does not mean it is the same else where.

    12. Re:Slow news day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's for IRS only, and whether mailing IRS Form 1099 to the contractor is required or not.

      The contractor is still liable for the tax, though.

    13. Re:Slow news day by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      I should have been more clear. I was talking about reporting income made to the IRS.

      We employeed contract employees in 30+ states, so it was a little larger than "my jurisdiction" & "Where I live".

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    14. Re:Slow news day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I beleive that working as a contract employee, if you make less than $600, you do not have to report it.

      Maybe this isn't directly applicable, but I know from my time as a treasurer of a small non-profit corporation that *we* (the corporation) didn't have to fill out 1099-MISC forms for people that made less than $600, but they (the people we paid less than $600) still had to report that income.

    15. Re:Slow news day by GasparGMSwordsman · · Score: 1

      We employeed contract employees in 30+ states, so it was a little larger than "my jurisdiction" & "Where I live".

      Yet the jurisdiction in question is still outside of your realm of stated knowledge. This again is my point. The facts: 1) Subject in the article is required to report income to the State of New York. 2) Your statement is about Federal taxes, which is outside the scope of this subject. My statement is that you should always state the jurisdiction in which you are referring to. In this case the jurisdiction is of the U.S. Department of Treasury's I.R.S bureau. If you choose to not include the jurisdiction you are almost certainly giving factually incorrect information.

    16. Re:Slow news day by SETIGuy · · Score: 1
      You could believe it, but you would be wrong. All income must be reported on your income taxes, whether a 1099 has been filed or not.

      That $600 limit is to reduce the workload on those hiring independent contractors, not to reduce the taxes paid by independent contractors.

    17. Re:Slow news day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the story isn't in this particular case, but in the general fact that if you make money, you can lose your entire unemployment check. The consequences of this go beyond rare individual injustices as mentioned in the article; it is a broad societal problem that a lot of people who could get a real job, even if only a few days a week, don't do so because of the associated risk. It's called the poverty fall/trap/etc. in the trade - the difference between benefits and (net) wages that sends you down into poverty the moment you start working. Not exactly news, but if it means persistent problems won't be forgotten simply because they're not news anymore, I don't mind an article like this every now and then. On slow news days.

    18. Re:Slow news day by societyofrobots · · Score: 1

      I will verify this. No earned income below $600 from a single source needs to be reported - assuming of course it is not considered a 'business'.

      This lawyer is obviously not a tax lawyer =P

    19. Re:Slow news day by rayzat · · Score: 1

      As the contractee you are not required to file the payment with IRS if it is less the $600. As a contractor you must report all income regardless of whether the contractee filed the income or not.

    20. Re:Slow news day by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1

      Are you implying that the great advertising circle jerk is any way productive? The act of selling the selling of things that [most] people aren't buying... great for making money, fairly useless in terms of helping society. Hmm... maybe NY state is just taking a stand against the inundation of Internet media with advertisements!

    21. Re:Slow news day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK I will explain. She earned $1 a day. Here is the UK you are allowed to earn £10 a week before you even have to tell them - that's about $20. It may be more like £15 now. The point is that nobody wants to be bothered about these tiny amounts that someone could earn by helping a friend move furniture or mowing someone's lawn at the weekend. Last time I looked they even listed these things as examples. Nobody would (I assume) want to discourage people from eg helping an elderly neighbour with their shopping for £5 a week, or something like that. Very few formal jobs will pay as little as this per week.

      If you do Avon or something like that you are hoping to get more than that (although you might not). Also you *could* fall foul of the rules about availability for work, although this can depend on how you phrase things to the person behind the desk and / or their attitude (people have been known to have benefits stopped for all kinds of stupid reasons, such as not being able to get to the office to "sign on" because of some crisis).
      Basically, in the UK this could happen but only by way of mistake - eg a nasty dole worker who just wouldn't accept that it was really only $1 a day.

      She should be able to prove her income by her receipts (or whatever they are called) from AdWords.

      Maybe you don't have this allowed income in the USA, but it seems draconian and unlikely.

    22. Re:Slow news day by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Of course, if you make less than the tax exempt value for the year, you are not even legally required to file, keeping in mind that unemployment insurance is taxable income.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:Slow news day by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      Unemployment is administered by the states but is a federal program. Rules are the same everywhere. The rules however are really really screwed up. the system can't handle non traditional income. If she was working 4 hours a week at a deli making that money there would have been no problem. She would recieve her benefits minus her income.

    24. Re:Slow news day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rules are not the same everywhere.

      Federal regulation requires specific items in unemployment benefits. HOWEVER many states have additional laws regulating unemployment. In the case in the article the person would have different requirements for reporting and for deductions in her benefits depending on what state she would be in.

      I can personally assure you that this issue HAS occurred in Oregon as I helped a friend who lives there file. I can assure you that they did not have this issue. He received specific payments infrequently for small amounts, very similar to the description in the article. I can also state that they received more than $405 dollars a week which according the article was the maximum amount allowed in NY State.

  6. Der. by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    i mean what is unemployment if you are recieving money.

    It's underemployment, der.

  7. Is it really? by al0ha · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "It's really stunning how various labor departments are simply ill-equipped to handle a modern labor force."

    Hmmm let's see, underfunded government entities are unable to keep up with new technology trends. I would not call that revelation, "Stunning."

    --
    Did you ever wake up in the morning, with a Zombie Woof behind your eyes? -- FZ
    1. Re:Is it really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Easy solution, they just need more funding.

    2. Re:Is it really? by log1385 · · Score: 1

      Hmmm let's see, underfunded government entities are unable to keep up with new technology trends. I would not call that revelation, "Stunning."

      The problem is not that the government is underfunded. No matter how much money it has, the government will never be able to keep up with technology. Microsoft has been throwing money at security improvement for years, and still MS apps and OS's are susceptible to the latest attacks. Money is not the problem or the solution. The problem is that the government acts as if people are robots and will only behave in certain ways.

      --
      Seek and ye shall find.
    3. Re:Is it really? by mayko · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Hmmm... let's see... you used "underfunded" and "government" in the same sentence.

      We should know by now that our government is almost always ill-equipped to perform their job, throwing money at it hasn't done a thing to fix it, except create a monstrous debt.

    4. Re:Is it really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't quite grasp how the most expensive government in the history can be called "underfunded" with a straight face.

    5. Re:Is it really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe if we stopped funding the military industrial complex we'd have some cash leftover to do something substantive instead of just flushing our money down the drain since it's not enough.

    6. Re:Is it really? by cwrinn · · Score: 1

      The problem is that the government and Microsoft act as if people are robots and will only behave in certain ways.

      Fixed.

      --
      Here's a cookie... *psst* it's MAGIC
    7. Re:Is it really? by astar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also consider the possibility that this is an effect of austerity programs. The department may be under a lot of pressure to cut expenditures. A particular reason might be draconian federal audits. I do not keep up on this sort of thing anymore, but I have heard stories that the federal auditors can be real ass-holes. General government stupidity is always a good explanation, but during a Depression, austerity-driven stupidity is also pretty good.

    8. Re:Is it really? by Ifni · · Score: 1

      What is stunning, though, is the extent. I recently had a judgement from unemployment lost in processing and had to talk to a supervisor to get a new one sent out. He called me back to say that he had *personally* gone down to the typist pool to have them retype it up to be sent out. A pool of typists? In the 21st century? Really? This was for a form letter with various parts filled in, BTW, not for some completely new dictated document or something that you might need to type from scratch. They have a web site, for crying out loud, and yet they are still stuck in the 50s.

      You want to know why government agencies are overwhelmed even when their isn't a crisis, this might just be one place to look, and it has little to do with budget (I strongly suspect a document management system and some printers costs less than a room full of typists).

      --

      Oh, was that my outside voice?

  8. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  9. Re:So the big question is: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What part of "New York" confuses you?

  10. total earned over the life of the blog $238.75 by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    $189.35 of which were sympathy clicks by her boyfriend

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  11. Re:So the big question is: by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

    Considering minimum wage is $7.25/hr, that's not just a crappy job, that's in violation of Federal law.

    Or, more likely, it wasn't a job.

  12. Horay government by ArsonSmith · · Score: 0, Troll

    Can't wait until they run Healthcare can you?

    --
    Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    1. Re:Horay government by melikamp · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Yeah, people who don't have insurance right now because they cannot afford it, they literally can't wait.

    2. Re:Horay government by Critical+Facilities · · Score: 1

      As if our current system is just spectacular, huh?

    3. Re:Horay government by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can't wait until they run Healthcare can you?They already do -- ever heard of Medicare? In fact, some of the loudest objections to the "Public Option" are from people who believe it will reduce the quality of the Government sponsored healthcare they already receive! Fucking greedy hypocrites!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    4. Re:Horay government by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      "What do ya mean you can't give me a colon exam?"
      "You're only 25 - come back when you're 40."
      "But my dad died of colon cancer when he was only 24, and my brother got it when he was only in his thirties."
      "Too bad. The government has to cut costs."

      Later I develop colon cancer at age 26. (This is based on an actual story from the UK where the "NICE" organization routinely denies preventative medicine, and a citizen developed cancer at a young age which could have been prevented.)

      BTW -

      - when I asked my HMO for a colon exam age 30, the doctor said it's not necessary but gave it to me anyway - only cost me $20. Who says HMOs are not customer friendly?

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    5. Re:Horay government by toadlife · · Score: 0, Troll

      They already run it via regulation. Now, they just need to start paying for it like every other civilized nation in the world.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    6. Re:Horay government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who exactly do you think "they" are? I'm all for free healthcare. Problem is, the only thing anyone is talking about offering me is really freakin' expensive healthcare.

    7. Re:Horay government by vxvxvxvx · · Score: 3, Funny

      The government better keep it's hands OUT OF MY MEDICARE!

    8. Re:Horay government by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      The only people that believe this sort of nonsense are those that have never actually seen a person without a well-paying job.

      OK, let's say you were working somewhere and they paid healh insurance. You lose your job and now have no insurance. Better not get sick, right?

      Well, as it turns out, it doesn't exactly work that way as all the poor people know. No insurance? Fine. Show up at the hospital ER and wait. You don't have a job, so you can wait, well, all day. And you probably will because everyone else is there for the same reason. No, you can't go to your private physician unless you can pay. But you can get the same treatment that the rest of the poor people get.

      If you do not have some life-threatening condition when you show up at the ER in your nice suburban town, you may indeed be referred to a different hospital. If you have no way to get there, you will get transported there - without the rest of your family that came with you to wait. But you are going to end up at a hospital where you will receive appropriate care. It may not be convenient and it may not be efficient but we do not have poor people dying in the streets because they are kicked to the curb from hospitals because they can't pay.

      Indeed, we do have people sitting at home going "Woe is me" in nice suburban towns because their private doctor wouldn't see them without getting paid and they were told to go to the County hospital in some nasty part of town when they showed up at the ER without insurance and a cut on their finger. They would never demean themselves to go to "County" because that is where the poor people go.

    9. Re:Horay government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cite a source or suck a dick

    10. Re:Horay government by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Have YOU ever heard of Medicare? Or the VA?
      They're shit.

      Just because they're out there doesn't mean that proponents of government-run health care should be pointing to them as shining beacons.

      Veterans get shit health care, and VAs get shut down all the time because they are vastly underfunded - even though much of their funding comes from private donations.

      Medicare doesn't cover all the necessary health costs someone on Medicare needs covered, not by a long shot. And in terms of true money in / health care out, it's possibly the LEAST efficient ever.

      The VA and Medicare are fucking paragons of "just getting by" and "passing the buck to the next generation". Even when it "works" many vets simply have no access to care and Granny is stretching her prescription to cover 2 months instead of 1.

      I'm not saying that the government can/can't run health care.
      I'm not saying the government should/shouldn't run health care.

      I'm saying that the proponents love to point to those examples, but those examples are such bullshit. They should be an argument for the opponents, not the proponents.
      But the opponents of health care reform won't dare raise a voice against the VA or Medicare because they get most of their support from older people. Older people will be confused by any critique of the government's handling of the VA and Medicare, and will perceive it as an attack against the systems they depend on.

      Thus, the opponents can't point out the bullshit in the proponents' argument "look we already has it - if you didn't like it why do you support it here?".

      I, not giving a shit, am free to point out the bullshit no matter where it comes from.

    11. Re:Horay government by Ephemeriis · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      "What do ya mean you can't give me a colon exam?"
      "You're only 25 - come back when you're 40."
      "But my dad died of colon cancer when he was only 24, and my brother got it when he was only in his thirties."
      "Too bad. The government has to cut costs."

      Later I develop colon cancer at age 26. (This is based on an actual story from the UK where the "NICE" organization routinely denies preventative medicine, and a citizen developed cancer at a young age which could have been prevented.)

      BTW -

      - when I asked my HMO for a colon exam age 30, the doctor said it's not necessary but gave it to me anyway - only cost me $20. Who says HMOs are not customer friendly?

      That's all well and good... But it doesn't really mean anything.

      I'm sorry the anecdotal cancer victim didn't get his colonoscopy when he needed it. And I'm glad you did get one when you asked for it.

      But here in the US we've got plenty of people of all ages who can't get any kind of medical treatment - regardless of whether they just want it or if they genuinely need it.

      If you've got a million people who die because the waiting list is too long or because the manual says no colonoscopy until 40... And I've got a million people who die because they can't get treatment at all... I don't see where you're any worse off than I am.

      A lot of the opponents of the current attempt to "reform" healthcare in the US like to point out these horrible tragedies from other countries with government-run medicine... But I'm just not impressed. We've got plenty of tragedies here on our own soil.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    12. Re:Horay government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't wait until they run Healthcare can you?

      No, actually, I can't.

      I got stuck with about $1,000 in travel expenses when I was in college because I had to go to another state for an operation. There were perfectly good doctors here in NY. No reason I couldn't have the operation here. But the insurance was through my parents, in MN, so the operation had to be done in MN. And the insurance refused to pay for the travel to/from MN. They initially didn't want to pay for my hospitalization here in NY in the first place... That would have been another $3,000 or so... But after a year or so of arguing we convinced them otherwise.

      My wife requires a good amount of medication to stay alive. She can't work. She's disabled, according to the government, so they cover her medical expenses. This is great, because there's no way in hell I could afford to pay for all her medication and doctors and whatnot. The problem is that I can't get a raise, or she's off disability, and we have to pay for it all. I can't add her to my insurance, because they won't cover her pre-existing condition. And my income would have to more than double in order to pay all her bills. So I've had to turn down several raises now, just to keep my wife insured by the state, so we can afford to keep her alive.

    13. Re:Horay government by vxvxvxvx · · Score: 1

      Well, most emergency treatment you can get by showing up at an ER. And while they do bill you, they effectively have no way to force you to pay. Medical expenses remain the largest cause of bankruptcy's which means those bills don't get paid. However, it is limited. Broken bones and gun wounds will get treated easily. Organ transplants and some cancer treatments you'll get refused treatment (though they'll probably give you pain meds to help you go out peacefully.) It really depends on how expensive the treatment is and whether it requires immediate treatment or if it just slowly kills you. The cheaper and more urgent it is the more likely they will do it without payment. The more expensive and less urgent the more likely they'll require payment up front. Hence the reason we always have news articles about some insurance company "killing" someone by not paying (because the hospital wouldn't do it without payment.) So basically, if you are without insurance and become seriously ill you're probably going to go bankrupt and you may be refused treatment.

    14. Re:Horay government by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      Can't wait until they run Healthcare can you?

      The story is not about a poorly RUN system. It's about a poorly DESIGNED system. Whole different ball of wax.

    15. Re:Horay government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's all anecdotal evidence, the real research shows that relying on ERs for your primary care will make you die sooner, as ERs don't do preventative care

    16. Re:Horay government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get so tired of hearing this same argument. It's been repeated ad nauseum to the point that it has become cliche. My standard response:

      1) So what? Your well being is my responsibility now?

      2) There are a million reasons why one might not have health insurance. One of them might be that they are 21 years old, in very good health, and would rather keep that several hundred dollars a month in their pocket. You're going to force them to pay for insurance they don't want? Yeah, the insurance companies will LOVE that! Another reason might be that they are a loser, didn't pay attention when they were getting their FREE education, and therefore are stuck scrubbing toilets at McDonald's forever. Again, see #1. Most, but not all, of the uninsured fall into this category I suspect.

      3) We already have health insurance for those who are absolutely unable to go out and earn a living due to a physical or mental disability. It's called MedicAid, and according to Obama it's wrought with waste and fraud. To which I say - why not just go after the waste and fraud and save us $500 billion right off the top instead of taking control of the whole damned thing?

    17. Re:Horay government by SBFCOblivion · · Score: 1

      Not sure why this is marked as troll.

      I get the biggest kick out of the pro-medicare, anti-national health care people.

    18. Re:Horay government by kz45 · · Score: 1

      "I got stuck with about $1,000 in travel expenses when I was in college because I had to go to another state for an operation. There were perfectly good doctors here in NY. No reason I couldn't have the operation here. "

      If the government was running your healthcare, you may not be able to get your operation at all. Would you rather have no operation (because of long waits) or $1000 in travel expenses?

      also, the amount of money in taxes that you will have to pay every year (not just once) will be much more in the long run.

      "My wife requires a good amount of medication to stay alive. She can't work. She's disabled, according to the government, so they cover her medical expenses. This is great, because there's no way in hell I could afford to pay for all her medication and doctors and whatnot. The problem is that I can't get a raise, or she's off disability, and we have to pay for it all. I can't add her to my insurance, because they won't cover her pre-existing condition. And my income would have to more than double in order to pay all her bills. So I've had to turn down several raises now, just to keep my wife insured by the state, so we can afford to keep her alive."

      Your wife has it good now, because the system isn't overflowing with people. If we get universal health care, this will change.

      I'm sorry, but I don't want to live in a country like Sweden or France where the average tax rate is 70%, which doesn't include V.A.T and the large amounts tacked on to everything you buy.

    19. Re:Horay government by Greyfox · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Heh. I don't hear those fat fuckers in the senate complaining about their publicly run health care plan either, for all their protests that the Government couldn't possibly run a good health care plan. Yeah well if we gave everyone the plan those bastards got, the government surely would go bankrupt, but they'll continue to vote to extend those benefits and raise their salaries while the rest of the country burns.

      My health care overhaul plan would state that no employee of the Federal Government may enjoy any health care that is any way better than that enjoyed by the lest privileged citizen. That'd sort THAT mess out fast enough.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    20. Re:Horay government by SETIGuy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      These are great straw men you keep demolishing. Are any of them related to reality in any way?

    21. Re:Horay government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suppose, with a certain generosity of sprit the US could be called civilised.

    22. Re:Horay government by kz45 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "These are great straw men you keep demolishing. Are any of them related to reality in any way?"

      It's not straw man if it's the truth. Take a look at any country with universal health care. It's convenient to call anything you don't agree with "straw men".

      The truth cannot be hidden forever. No matter how much you try.

    23. Re:Horay government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the government was running your healthcare, you may not be able to get your operation at all. Would you rather have no operation (because of long waits) or $1000 in travel expenses?

      Your wife has it good now, because the system isn't overflowing with people. If we get universal health care, this will change.

      I'm sorry, but I don't want to live in a country like Sweden or France where the average tax rate is 70%, which doesn't include V.A.T and the large amounts tacked on to everything you buy.

      Bullshit, bullshit and bullshit, yay

    24. Re:Horay government by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      A truly civilized nation doesn't let one neighbor swipe money from other neighbors' wallets. You don't have a right to force your neighbors to pay for your new Lexus. You don't have a right to make your neighbors pay for your new HDTV. Neither do you have a right to make your neighbors pay for your liposuction health bill.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    25. Re:Horay government by TheLink · · Score: 2

      And you don't think that system is broken?

      A system where poor people have to sit in "Emergency Rooms" for treatment? Or wait till their condition deteriorates into an emergency?

      It's cheaper if the USA just quickly killed their poor people who are sick, rather than do it slower like now. And more honest in some ways.

      Yes I know if you actually give the poor preventative healthcare they might live way longer and cost the system more (everyone dies eventually - it's just postponing the inevitable).

      But one would have thought that the most powerful country in the world could use some of its power to help its poor, needy and weak.

      And worse - it seems that the US system still costs a lot even if it isn't giving decent treatment to that many...

      --
    26. Re:Horay government by tekrat · · Score: 1

      A truly civilized nation doesn't let one neighbor swipe money from other neighbors' wallets.
      ------------

      So, a truly civilized nation allows one neighbor to die because he doesn't have "coverage"? A truly civilized nation allows his neighbor's children to starve?

      Exactly what definition of "civilized" are you using?

      I've never seen the "redneck's dictionary", but then again, that's probably because most rednecks are illiterate, as you have demonstrated.

      --
      If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    27. Re:Horay government by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My health care overhaul plan would state that no employee of the Federal Government may enjoy any health care that is any way better than that enjoyed by the lest privileged citizen. That'd sort THAT mess out fast enough.

      I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, the least privileged citizen currently doesn't have health care, except emergency room/hospitalization. So if you don't want Federal Government employees to have any health care, why don't you just say that?

    28. Re:Horay government by toadlife · · Score: 1

      Your simplistic view of how societies operate is quaint, and your 1:1 ratio of straw mans to sentences is impressive.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    29. Re:Horay government by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      If the Senate were forced to use that option, the quality of the care enjoyed by the least privileged citizen would rapidly improve, I believe...

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  13. Gezz, why the heck did she tell them? by WarlockD · · Score: 1

    I mean seriously? Is she THAT green from college? I did the same thing with a temp job for ONE DAY for just under $50 bucks and the state pulled my benifits and "held them" for a few months. All because my grandpa didn't get their mail:P Luckly I got another job in a week after but still.

    To be frank, you don't tell the government ANYTHING unless you can fill out all those bubbles on a form. Unless the guys your working for has you fill a W-2, just "forget" about it. I mean, sure she is trying to pass the bar and dosn't want to put any tanit on her record. If that was the case, she shouldn't of signed up for addsence during her unemployment:P

    1. Re:Gezz, why the heck did she tell them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google Adsense makes you give all your tax information up front. I don't think they report it until she makes $600, but they do have a paper trail.

  14. Re:So the big question is: by Jurily · · Score: 1

    What happened to the old one?

  15. She reported it by DogDude · · Score: 1

    It's her fault. Anybody with the tiniest bit of common sense realizes that trying to explain something like this to an un-fireable government bureaucrat is a losing battle. Why would she report the income? That's really just a dumb move on her part. That reminds me... my car inspection has expired. Maybe I should call the DMV and tell them...

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:She reported it by phlinn · · Score: 1

      Because she's an honest person? It's really no great surprise to anyone who is opposed to government programs that said programs tend to reward bad behavior. That's a problem with the program, not a reason to abuse the system. It may actually be deliberate in some cases, since reducing the need for unemployment coverage also reduces the need for the bureaucrats running those programs.

      --
      "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
    2. Re:She reported it by DogDude · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between being honest, and willfully supplying superfluous information to a system that is not equipped to handle it.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    3. Re:She reported it by SirWhoopass · · Score: 1

      If she hit $600 by the end of the year (not likely, but who knows?) then Google would have issued a 1099, a copy of which is available to the state. It's not unreasonable to believe that the state has an automated system to match that against unemployment records. And then she gets hit with fraud.

      The real problem is the state's rules that cause $1 to trigger a 25% reduction. A more reasonable regulation might be no reduction for income under $25 and then a dollar-for-dollar reduction up to $405 (the point at which NY cuts benefits entirely).

    4. Re:She reported it by DogDude · · Score: 1

      You're right. I think that it would still make sense to not report it until you're sure that a 1099 is sent out (or you get a copy of a 1099). I also agree with you about the rules. They're silly and outright bad. My point is that anybody with any experience with bureaucracies should know that if things are going well for you, the best thing you can do is to keep your head down and stay quiet. Common sense would say to not rock the boat. She rocked the boat by not once, but TWICE trying to report her nebulously-categorized earnings. Who wouldn't think that that would trigger some sort of audit?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    5. Re:She reported it by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Unfireable has nothing to do with it. If Verizon or Walmart ran it, they would be just as useless. It's not the unfireable part that's critical it's a case of a minimum wage worker not being given the power to legally give away hundreds of dollars. And when you stop to think about it, do you really want a minimum wage worker to have that kind of power? How much abuse and waste would there be if someone came in and wanted an exception and some burger flipper could just immediately make an exception?

    6. Re:She reported it by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Minimum wage?

      In state government?

      LOL

      The reason WallMart is a better solution is they only pay their incompetents minimum wage.

      State governments pay theirs six figures.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  16. Well, all are illegal... by tjstork · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Bottom line is, unemployment is to fill in while you don't have a job. If you get money selling Avon, the farmer's market, or work as a musician, then you sorta have a job, don't you?

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:Well, all are illegal... by Itchyeyes · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not really. While those are all sources of income, very few people would consider them for a primary occupation, and most people earning income from such ventures are still searching for a new career. Unemployment benefits should not punish those who put the effort in to maintain their livelihood simply because the government is too lazy to make a distinction between supplementary income and an actual job.

    2. Re:Well, all are illegal... by slashkitty · · Score: 1
      All of those, including blogger, can easily become full lifetime occupations. Blogging especially requires a lot of start up time. They want you spending time looking for work, not starting a business.

      Am I the only one here who didn't try to claim unemployment benefits when working on my online business when unemployed?

      --
      -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
    3. Re:Well, all are illegal... by Ephemeriis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bottom line is, unemployment is to fill in while you don't have a job. If you get money selling Avon, the farmer's market, or work as a musician, then you sorta have a job, don't you?

      Maybe?

      If I get fired from a minimum-wage 40 hour/week job, I'm out roughly $300/week.

      If I can make $100/week selling Avon, or veggies at the farmer's market, or as a musician - I'm still not even making minimum wage.

      I guess I'm not sure what the laws are regarding unemployment... It is entirely possible that any income at all is considered employment... But that hardly makes it right or sensible.

      Seems to me that if the government considers roughly $300/week to be the minimum wage... Then anything less than $300/week should be considered some kind of unemployment. Or underemployment, if you'd prefer.

      Regardless, it isn't enough money to live off of.

      If you want to cut off the unemployment check because they're technically employed, that's fine... But if that crappy Avon income is all they've got, they're going to wind up on some other government benefit before too long - food stamps, or HUD, or something. Because that's just not enough money to live off of.

      Of course, if you're making $1,000/week from Avon then there's absolutely no reason you should be getting unemployment of any kind... But that doesn't seem to be the case in this particular instance.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    4. Re:Well, all are illegal... by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Chances are you were the only one working on your online business, so chances are that you were indeed the only one not to claim benefits.

    5. Re:Well, all are illegal... by tjstork · · Score: 1

      Regardless, it isn't enough money to live off of.

      That is why you are supposed to save.

      --
      This is my sig.
    6. Re:Well, all are illegal... by greatcelerystalk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a general problem with any kind of social service in most parts of the United States. If you start making any money at all, whether or not the unemployment, welfare, SSI/SSDI, etc are a considerable part of you being able to get on your feet, you almost immediately start to lose benefits. American social service/social insurance programs shoot themselves in the foot.

    7. Re:Well, all are illegal... by Ephemeriis · · Score: 1

      Regardless, it isn't enough money to live off of.

      That is why you are supposed to save.

      I hypothesized losing a minimum-wage job. I've had minimum-wage jobs. You're lucky if a minimum-wage job is enough to pay the bills.

      And what about the people who did save... But just didn't save enough? Maybe they stashed away enough cash to last them six months or so... But with the economic downturn they suddenly find themselves unemployed for eight, nine, ten months or longer.

      Or what if you thought you'd be clever and invested your savings. Yeah, I know, savings are supposed to be just that - savings. Not a source of income. But plenty of people fudge things a bit and put their savings to work in the market. But when the market tanks, your savings disappear as well.

      Just saying you are supposed to save sounds great in theory... It's not so simple in practice.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    8. Re:Well, all are illegal... by sjames · · Score: 1

      No, you have a sideline that will never in a zillion years even pay for one trip to the grocery store, much less your rent/mortgage.

    9. Re:Well, all are illegal... by T-Bone-T · · Score: 1

      My asshole of a boss fired me for being 2 minutes late. Before that, hours had been reduced for several weeks due to lack of business and I had to use what I had saved to make up for it. Suddenly, I was out of a job with no savings.

    10. Re:Well, all are illegal... by Anonymous+Cowpat · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, in the UK, you can claim unemployment benefit while selling Avon or somesuch similar, so long as you don't do it too much, but 'too much' is not measured by the income you make from it, but by the hours you put in - you get no benefits if you put more than 16 hours \ week into doing it, even if you only make 50p.

      --
      FGD 135
    11. Re:Well, all are illegal... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Waitaminit. People (especially software types) pay in far more than they will ever receive in benefits. Isn't that a form of "saving", except that their "savings account" is locked out to them?

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    12. Re:Well, all are illegal... by tjstork · · Score: 1

      hypothesized losing a minimum-wage job. I've had minimum-wage jobs. You're lucky if a minimum-wage job is enough to pay the bills

      I've had them too. The thing is, even now, there's more than a few minimum wage jobs out there.

      Just saying you are supposed to save sounds great in theory... It's not so simple in practice.

      Hand in hand with that, you have to have some level of protectionism to protect the most vulnerable classes against outsourcing and also to prevent the outsourcing to ladders that help people step up. The job that I used to climb up the rung no longer exists in the USA and that I remember, every time I vote.

      --
      This is my sig.
    13. Re:Well, all are illegal... by tjstork · · Score: 1

      My asshole of a boss fired me for being 2 minutes late

      On the flipside, my Dad lost a disability case once to a guy that he had videotaped catching a touchdown pass in a game of football. The disability board said that just because a man could play football, doesn't mean he wasn't disabled...

      --
      This is my sig.
    14. Re:Well, all are illegal... by tjstork · · Score: 1

      Waitaminit. People (especially software types) pay in far more than they will ever receive in benefits. Isn't that a form of "saving", except that their "savings account" is locked out to them?

      I'm far from being a bleeding heart liberal, but the idea of unemployment insurance is to provide a bridge to the most vulnerable members of society. We pay a lot in unemployment, but, unless people are as irresponsible as I am, we have assets to fall back on. Unemployment insurance is really about keeping low classes from winding up homeless for not making rent.

      --
      This is my sig.
    15. Re:Well, all are illegal... by tjstork · · Score: 1

      I hypothesized losing a minimum-wage job

      That's what unemployment insurance is for. I agree with that. I didn't read your whole post correctly.

      But people who make more are expected to save.

      --
      This is my sig.
    16. Re:Well, all are illegal... by muridae · · Score: 1

      Move to Virginia. The SSI/SSDI/SSA here is, frankly, fairly simple. $X per month, based on living expenses. Then, for every dollar over $80 (or something close, it changed recently) you lose $0.50. Disability of any kind gets to keep medical coverage until they have not received an SSA/SSDI check for, I think 3 months. The only problems I have witnessed are when over-zealous HR folks tend to meddle. Some desk staffer answering a phone told a case worker that of course that person would be working full time by next month, the short hours were because it was only the end of the month. Never mind that the person hired was hired to work 100 hours over 3 months on a small grant project for the university, the HR clerk didn't know that and didn't need to ask. Three months of paperwork to straighten that one out. Oh, and the hour drives to the nearest county office, those are probably tiring too.

      If what you mean is that $X per month is too low, then I would have to agree with you. I know someone who is getting less than $750 per month from disabilities, and something like 150 in foodstamps, so call it $900 overall. Their medical bills alone, just counting monthly prescriptions, are close to $500 which they don't pay right now because disabilities covers all medical costs within reason. That doesn't account for them getting sick, and needing extra doctor visits or new/different medication. They can not afford to get a full-time minimum wage job with no health insurance. Once the state medical coverage phases out when they work, they would get hit with more bills than they are making money. Doesn't stop them from trying, working short hour contract jobs for the university, and I guess short hours are good when you have $500 in pills to take every month. But it is discouraging to anyone trying to get on their feet to know they have to not just make it to sufficient in 3 months, but they have to be completely clear of the whole system in that time.

    17. Re:Well, all are illegal... by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      absolutely not....You can be employed(read underemployed) and collect unemployment your benefits are just reduced. If she was getting the income from a traditional job she would have had no problem. But if someone gives you $20 a week to Walk there dog your screwed.

    18. Re:Well, all are illegal... by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

      And just how much are you supposed to have in savings? I've been unemployed for just over a year now. This follows 3 years of having a job following 18 months of underemployment (1/2 my previous wage) following 6 months of unemployment with no unemployment benefits. I literally had just paid off the last of my CC debt accrued from the period of underemployment when I was laid off.

      Even doing that, I had a 3 month cushion to live on. That's only left me with 10 months of being unemployed to try and figure out how to live on half my salary.

    19. Re:Well, all are illegal... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forget, the government likes to keep people on its teat, it's called control.

      look up the bureau of indian affairs sometime. Any tribe that tries to better itself gets COMPLETELY cut off, so they fall back right away, unless they build a casino on their land, which are now proving to not be such a good thing, as tribes are being broken up as a result (claiming someone has weak ancestry or isnt "pure enough", usually by those who have dubious ties to begin with, and banishing them from the tribe, just to take a larger cut.) Thus these small tribes end up falling back on government aid and being forced into poverty. Same goes for many on welfare, it's a bitch to get off of welfare, because the second you make too much money, they completely cut you off, and then you fall back into even worse poverty.

      This isnt an accident, nor is it stupidity, it's quite intentional. It's also partially the reason there's an ever growing divide between the haves and the have nots.

  17. pity... by foodnugget · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Pity the blogger removed the advertising, I reckon traffic is about to skyrocket for a few days...

    1. Re:pity... by garcia · · Score: 1

      Pity the blogger removed the advertising, I reckon traffic is about to skyrocket for a few days...

      Increased traffic does not generally equate to increased Google Adsense revenue, in fact, it usually lowers it--a lot. If I expect a post to get a lot of traffic (from Slashdot or StumbleUpon, etc) I tell WhyDoWork to shut off ads to that particular post. No sense in serving many more ads that probably won't be clicked.

    2. Re:pity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pity the blogger removed the advertising, I reckon traffic is about to skyrocket for a few days...

      Increased traffic does not generally equate to increased Google Adsense revenue, in fact, it usually lowers it--a lot. If I expect a post to get a lot of traffic (from Slashdot or StumbleUpon, etc) I tell WhyDoWork to shut off ads to that particular post. No sense in serving many more ads that probably won't be clicked.

      Why does this strike me as "beyond stupid"?

      You KNOW you're going to get a huge influx of viewers, yet because you "believe" they won't click on your ads, you turn the ads off?
      So, if you had that kind of traffic every day you might as well just get rid of ads entirely?

      Please back your statements up with some kind of believable analysis, otherwise it just seems silly not to take advantage of the increase in traffic.

    3. Re:pity... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously don't know how Adsense works so it's not even worth explaining further than I already have.

  18. nothing new by poptones · · Score: 4, Informative

    Back in 2000 I was denied unemployment benefits because I made the mistake of telling the interviewer I had tried to get some contract positions. Never mind that I DIDN'T GET THEM, simply the fact I was now "an independent contractor" meant I was employed.

    Never tell them anything. No, woe si me; I'm unemployed and unemployable, I simply don't know what I am going to do...

    1. Re:nothing new by aztracker1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah, I had something similar happen... in 2001 my side jobs ended, then my day job... because I had contract work, on my taxes, I was "self-employed"... not good. Considering I paid more in taxes in 2000-2001 than I earned in 2002-2005, I feel kind of ripped off.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    2. Re:nothing new by Thelasko · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Back in 2000 I was denied unemployment benefits because I made the mistake of telling the interviewer I had tried to get some contract positions.

      I'm currently unemployed and someone just told me that I would still qualify for unemployment if I worked at Walmart because they pay so much less than what I made at my previous job.

      Man, I'm glad I didn't take that person's advice.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    3. Re:nothing new by conureman · · Score: 1

      I know if they work in my county they're expected to try and disqualify you by any means necessary.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    4. Re:nothing new by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Back in 2000 I was denied unemployment benefits because I made the mistake of telling the interviewer I had tried to get some contract positions. Never mind that I DIDN'T GET THEM, simply the fact I was now "an independent contractor" meant I was employed.

      You weren't denied because you were an independent contractor--you were denied because you were an independent contractor who wasn't paying unemployment insurance premiums.

      I know independent contractors who have successfully collected unemployment; but they were set up as companies and paid for the insurance. From what I understand, it took a little bit of "educating" their case-workers, but they eventually collected what they were owed..

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  19. ABP FTW by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    She should have gotten the unemployment office to use Ad Block Plus. That way they wouldn't have seen her ads.

  20. Looks like she should have kept adsense up by darjen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    now that her story is getting some wide coverage.

    1. Re:Looks like she should have kept adsense up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AdSense doesn't work well with burst traffic. The higher paying ads dry up and then there are only low-paying ads left. In addition to that effect, burst traffic visitors have low click-through rates (unless the site deceives them and they think the ads are part of the content, listings of some sort).

      Wide coverage does help a site through long term visibility, because it creates lots of links, but even then AdSense does not scale very well.

  21. Everybody, let's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everybody, let's all locate her blog and click on her ads out of the kindness of our hearts and to show that we support her.

  22. An Unemployed... Lawyer? by blcamp · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Hard for me to understand how a *lawyer* can be unemployed. Harder still for me to understand how an unemployed lawyer is unable to cut through the government red tape and related BS... but then again, perhaps that's why she is currently unemployed.

    I do wish her well, though...

    --
    The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
  23. Re:So the big question is: by gnick · · Score: 3, Funny

    Old New York was once New Amsterdam. Why they changed it, I can't say.

    People just liked it better that way.

    --
    He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
  24. SHE OUGHTA HIRE A LAWYER !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And stick it to the man !!

  25. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by commodore64_love · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The whole tax system is a mess that few understand even professionals. Last year H&R Block prepared my taxes as they've done since circa 1990, and the woman kept insisting I don't owe Oklahoma any taxes because I live in Virgina. I said "Yes but I *worked* in Oklahoma and you pay where you worked, just like I did last year when I worked in California, or the prior year when I worked in Florida." She said I was wrong and those previous years need to be fixed. I said I was right. She said I was wrong and then got her manager to back her up, which made me think maybe I was wrong after all.

    Long story made short - They fucked up. Oklahoma fined me, Virgina happily swallowed the ~$6,000 in extra taxmoney, then I filed amended forms (or actually H&R did) saying I owed OK not VA. I paid Oklahoma the taxes I owed, and Virgina refused to recognize the amended forms, and they did eventually return the money, minus a fine.

    H&R Block cost me $600 in their mistakes.

    I will eventually get my revenge.

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
  26. Adding Insult to Injury by jcoy42 · · Score: 3, Funny

    And so, after removing the ads from her blog (they weren't really earning much money anyway) slashdot decided to mention it on the front page..

    I bet she's thrilled.

    --
    Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
    1. Re:Adding Insult to Injury by RayMarron · · Score: 1

      Damn, of all the days not to have mod points...

      --
      ON DELETE CASCADE
    2. Re:Adding Insult to Injury by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      And so, after removing the ads from her blog (they weren't really earning much money anyway) slashdot decided to mention it on the front page..

      I bet she's thrilled.

      I suspect that even among those not running adblock- or at least Flashblock- Slashdotters are among those least likely to click adverts anyway.

      I very rarely click on adverts and may *once* have bought something as a result of one (I feel guilty about clicking them if I'm 99% sure that I'm not going to buy the thing they're advertising anyway).

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  27. So, if I make a billion cents, I don't pay taxes? by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Cool! Let me move my supermarket headquarter over there.

    First rule of business. Pennies add up.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  28. Big Government by isa-kuruption · · Score: 0, Troll

    This is simply the result of big government in our lives. It's the bureaucratic mess that occurs when government is given too much power over our lives; when we let them have that much power over our lives. They decided, for her, that the money she was collecting was sufficient to live on... not that the decision made sense, it doesn't, but bureaucratic decisions tend not to make sense.

    It will be worse when the government passes universal healthcare coverage. Under the current proposals, they will tell you whether you're insurance is sufficient, and if not, will fine you for not having the proper coverage. Eventually, as government continues it's reckless spending, more and more people will be told their coverage is insufficient as they try to cover the increasing debt. Then, you will decide to get the best coverage available so you won't be fined, and that will result in being taxed for having a "luxury" plan.

    1. Re:Big Government by Planesdragon · · Score: 2

      They decided, for her, that the money she was collecting was sufficient to live on...

      No, they didn't. Unemployment insurance is NOT welfare. The labor dept in this case did exactly what they were supposed to -- enforce the law as written.

      The law is crazy and dumb, but that's not the Labor Dept's fault. It's the legislature's.

      It will be worse when the government passes universal healthcare coverage. Under the current proposals, they will tell you whether you're insurance is sufficient, and if not, will fine you for not having the proper coverage. Eventually, as government continues it's reckless spending, more and more people will be told their coverage is insufficient as they try to cover the increasing debt. Then, you will decide to get the best coverage available so you won't be fined, and that will result in being taxed for having a "luxury" plan.

      This would be BETTER and LESS WASTEFUL if we actually had a real welfare state -- the gov't guarantees a rock-bottom standard of living for everyone (food + shelter + healthcare), and every dollar you make beyond that is progressively taxed until you're supporting yourself. (progressive: very little % tax on the 1st dollar, slightly increasing % tax on the last dollar. You know, like how the system works now until about 250,000.) Why are we wasting our nation's wealth in shifting this woman from "unemployment" to "welfare", anyway? Send her a check, tell her to go volunteer if we need to, and ever, ever, EVER take a dollar away from her for a dollar she earns.

      If you want to go full bore SMART, we could even abolish the minimum wage and require complete portability of employer-provided healthcare benefits, to untether the market from our social engineering The republicans SHOULD be making these last two proposals -- but since they're focused on scare tacticsk they aren't.

  29. Re:So the big question is: by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

    It's still around; it's in middle England.

  30. lawyer si a fancy name for clerk by peter303 · · Score: 1

    The majority or lawyers do not come from big name law schools or on the partner-track in a big-name firm. They grind out contracts for businesses at very modest wages. thats when they can find a position.

  31. Someone check hell by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 5, Funny

    We just found ourselves an honest lawyer.

    Good thing to see the system is taking care of it.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Someone check hell by commodore64_love · · Score: 2

      I'd hire her. Heck I'd probably date her.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Someone check hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      All I can see from this story is the following:

      Honest Lawyer = Unemployed Lawyer

    3. Re:Someone check hell by aztracker1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Agreed.. she should apply to work for the EFF or something...

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    4. Re:Someone check hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've heard of negative feedback loops, but would this be a positive feedback loop taking care of things?

    5. Re:Someone check hell by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      I've heard of negative feedback loops, but would this be a positive feedback loop taking care of things?

      Negative feedback loops move towards equilibrium.

      Positive feedback loops move away from "equilibrium"

      In other words, no.

      ObHell:Yes, it is frozen over!

      ObTopic:$1 a day is not "income" by any reasonable definition (e.g. minimum wage) of the term.

      --
      $ make available
    6. Re:Someone check hell by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So saying "I find honest and forthright women quite appealing" is now sexist? Stop valuing a woman for her mind and character you say? I'm sorry, I just can't keep up with the changing rules.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re:Someone check hell by Toonol · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is an article about a person getting screwed over by unemployment, and you're evaluating her worthiness for a date? Can you turn that shit off for just a minute please? Because we're left with only one conclusion: that you evaluate all women this way, all the time, regardless of the context. Stop and think about how that makes women feel, and then maybe you'll understand why comments like this drive us away.

      Of course he is. It's normal, healthy, and expected (assuming he's not married). Evaluating all women a single man encounters for possible romance is one of the most basic biological and psychological functions of a man, just as the opposite is normally true of a woman. That recognition of the fact that genders EXIST and HAVE A PURPOSE isn't an ethical problem, although it's often claimed to be.

      Now, inappropriate actions can certainly be an ethical problem; but so long as the slashdot poster isn't her supervisor or therapist, evaluating her potential as a date isn't inappropriate.

    8. Re:Someone check hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Nah. Just creepy.

    9. Re:Someone check hell by Omnifarious · · Score: 1

      I do, in fact, evaluate most women I meet that way. I assume that most women do the same to me (and I assume the answer is 99.9% 'no').

      Now, I do agree that the fact that he would date her is likely not terribly relevant to this conversation. And his juxtaposition of the qualities of 'datability' and 'hirability' reveal that he perhaps links them, and that's definitely not OK.

      But I don't think the problem is that he evaluates women based on datability.

    10. Re:Someone check hell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > and then maybe you'll understand why comments like this drive us away.

      I'm totally fine with it when moronic girls like you stay away.

    11. Re:Someone check hell by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      SuperfeminaziDana wrote:

      This is an article about a person getting screwed over by unemployment, and you're evaluating her worthiness for a date? Can you turn that shit off for just a minute please? Because we're left with only one conclusion: that you evaluate all women this way, all the time, regardless of the context. Stop and think about how that makes women feel, and then maybe you'll understand why comments like this drive us away

      You're driven-away by a man who thinks an Honest Woman with a lawschool degree makes for a worthy date, or even a great lifelong partner?

      Really???

      No wonder the feminist movement is dying. You're out of touch with reality.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    12. Re:Someone check hell by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>his juxtaposition of the qualities of 'datability' and 'hirability' reveal that he perhaps links them, and that's definitely not OK.

      Oh jeez. It was just humor.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    13. Re:Someone check hell by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      If she's as old as me you'd have to carbon date her.

    14. Re:Someone check hell by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I find YOUR comment sexist. Don't worry about me asking you out, I'd never date a woman with your attitude. What makes you such a mysandrist, lady? Something terrible must have happened to you when you were young, I pity you.

      Grow the fuck up.

  32. Re:An Unemployed... Lawyer? by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

    Hard for me to understand how a *lawyer* can be unemployed. Harder still for me to understand how an unemployed lawyer is unable to cut through the government red tape and related BS... but then again, perhaps that's why she is currently unemployed.

    I do wish her well, though...

    Not unusual - a lot of firms cut staff recently; one WSJ article with a prominent attorney said he was concerned that we a re producing far more lawyers than will ever get hired in the future, and he felt mny law students would never really recoup the cost of their education.

    As for the red tape, knowing the law can be of very little use, especially when dealing with bureaucrats who have done the job for years and simply don't care what you think the law is; they've been doing it like this for years. Piss them off? Opps, your file is missing a key form. Please send it in again (so I can shred it). Threaten to sue? Go ahead, it'll be years before you get a verdict.

    P>Not all are like that, but unfortunately the system can simply grind you down with no discernible impact on the system.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  33. ...imagine them in charge of your HMO by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is the sort of nonsense that drives the American distrust of beaurocrats.

    The plans of well meaning liberal Senators will eventually have to be implemented
    by civil servants with varying degrees of competence and empathy that have no
    interest in being effective or efficient and infact will be rewarded by being as
    inefficient as they can and growing their own personal fiefdom.

    This is best captured by the "spend your budget this year or lose it next year" approach to money.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    1. Re:...imagine them in charge of your HMO by afidel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you honestly think an HMO with a profit motive to deny you coverage is any better? I'll take laziness and incompetence over laziness, incompetence and greed any day.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    2. Re:...imagine them in charge of your HMO by feepness · · Score: 1

      Do you honestly think an HMO with a profit motive to deny you coverage is any better? I'll take laziness and incompetence over laziness, incompetence and greed any day.

      I'll take laziness, incompetence, greed, and the potential to choose an alternative over both of them.

    3. Re:...imagine them in charge of your HMO by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Informative

      Do you honestly think an HMO with a profit motive to deny you coverage is any better?

      Yes, if they're allowed to compete with others offering similar services. It's when they don't have competition that it isn't optimal. So, allow them to compete across statea lines, and watch what happens.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    4. Re:...imagine them in charge of your HMO by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      The plans of well meaning liberal Senators will eventually have to be implemented by civil servants

      The claim that Senators, liberal or conservative, are well meaning is dubious at best. All evidence points to the probability that they are beholden to campaign cash.

      And since I live in Illinois' capital, I know quite a few civil servants, and they're not unlike anybody else in any other job. Many are dedicated and hard working, some will walk all over anyone to advance their careers, and some aren't very good at what they do.

      With bureaucrats, the problem is the executive. Incompetence, like competence, starts at the top.

    5. Re:...imagine them in charge of your HMO by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > With bureaucrats, the problem is the executive. Incompetence, like competence, starts at the top.

      Total, mindless, drivellous nonsense.

      Bureaucrats are eternal. Executives are transient.

      No matter what "party" is in charge, the same crappy civil servants will be mismanaging whatever part of your life they have control over.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re:...imagine them in charge of your HMO by Analog+Penguin · · Score: 1
  34. Re:Income is income.. by Volante3192 · · Score: 1

    Maybe you should spend less time "commenting" and more time doing your job.

    And don't give me that "oh, i'm on break or posting from home" crap. That just means you're not dedicated enough!

  35. Troll by DogDude · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    You know, if you tea baggers want to whine about big government, why aren't any of you smart enough to start with the biggest expenditure and the biggest waste: the military?

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:Troll by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Can't speak for him, but probably because defense spending has been trending down, has been for some time, and will likely continue to do so into the future. As defense spending has gone down, the money has gone mainly to entitlement programs, whose cost is projected to rise into the future.

      I agree that the GPs anger is misdirected, but so is yours: in 2009 interest payments on debt costs will be equal to 40% of revenue. Anyone should be able to see that's not sustainable, and will probably come crashing down sooner rather than later.

      --
      Qxe4
    2. Re:Troll by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>tea baggers want to whine about big government...the military?

      I'm a "teabagger". I said from the beginning (9/12/2001) that a military response was inappropriate, but nobody wanted to listen to me - neither my Republican nor my Democrat Senators/representatives. They just went off and authorized military action. Then they BOTH voted to support the Patriot Act.

      I think it's time for a third party - something like the Whig Party that existed in the early 1800s - so that the Ds and Rs no longer hold a majority.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:Troll by skeeto · · Score: 1

      According to the article you linked it's 40% of income tax revenue, or 19% of all revenue. Still awful, though.

    4. Re:Troll by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Oh, you're right, good catch, thanks.

      --
      Qxe4
  36. Re:An Unemployed... Lawyer? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Hard for me to understand how a *lawyer* can be unemployed. Harder still for me to understand how an unemployed lawyer is unable to cut through the government red tape and related BS... but then again, perhaps that's why she is currently unemployed.

    Hey, that statement looks eminently libelous to me! Maybe more money will soon be headed her way!

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  37. Re:So the big question is: by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The part where it could be Buffalo or Uttica. ...I guess all of that noise about the rest of the state being pissed off
    that Hillary's Senate opponent wasn't aware of the rest of the state
    actually has some merit to it. [snicker]

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  38. Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been unemployed for about 2 years now. I live in backwater Reno, NV and had worked in the gaming industry. Two strikes against me, I know. I had been in Silicon Valley for many years, but wanted a cheaper/nicer place to live. Its nice here, but if you make more than $100,000/year, they think you're some overpaid wallstreet crook.

    Anyways, during the course of my job hunt I formed an LLC so I could accept 1099 work rather than just FT W2. I add a line to my contact letter that says, "I am available for full-time W2 employment, as well as contract-based 1099 projects." That's it. That's the whole deal.

    Once Nevada found out about this they claim I own and operate a company, and are SUING me for 1 year's back unemployment. Uh, I don't have $12,000 sitting around guys. That's because I'm UNEMPLOYED.

    I'm guessing that the state is just broke, and looking for every excuse they can to deny any benefit they can.

    I one instant I just went from "moderate democrat" to "conservative republican", too. Interesting.

    1. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Winckle · · Score: 1

      But the dems are pushing for increased welfare during this recession, you aren't making sense.

    2. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because if my experience is any indication of how poorly run and executed these programs are, I want to get rid of all of them. I like the concept of it, but if this is the execution of it, stop. Shut down the whole program. And all of it. If I can't get a bit of help when I fully need and qualify for it, then the system is broken. I'm willing to leave money in everyone's pockets by reducing taxes if this is how poorly the taxes are being utilized.

    3. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Last year after I was laid off from my job I was unable to even apply for unemployment. The unemployment office was so swamped that they stopped taking applications in person. You had to call a special number to do it. I didn't have a landline phone and and the wait time to get through was longer than the battery of my cell phone would last while on hold (5+ hours). Fortunately I wasn't picky and managed to get a job 2 states away before I maxed out my credit cards and ran out of money.

    4. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I one instant I just went from "moderate democrat" to "conservative republican", too. Interesting.

      Ever consider that part of the reason our government needs more money is because we're throwing so much money away on the military industrial complex that makes weapons for a war that will never come and a eternal war on drugs that will erode our civil liberties and fill prisons beyond capacity with nonviolent offenders? Or perhaps the fact that republican tax cuts favor the rich to the point that the middle class is vanishing due to the widening wealth gap?

      If you are a Republican or Libertarian in this day and age you are literally retarded and are voting against your and your countries best interests.

    5. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by LanMan04 · · Score: 1

      I one instant I just went from "moderate democrat" to "conservative republican", too. Interesting.

      So your brain fell out during the incident? Boy, that must have hurt.

      --
      With the first link, the chain is forged.
    6. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      Once Nevada found out about this they claim I own and operate a company, and are SUING me for 1 year's back unemployment. Uh, I don't have $12,000 sitting around guys. That's because I'm UNEMPLOYED.

      So you're in the right. What's the problem, again?

      Oh, yeah. Going into a courtroom means you've automatically lost something. I get it. You're going to not get all that income from not sitting around collecting unemployment.

    7. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by John+Whitley · · Score: 1

      I one instant I just went from "moderate democrat" to "conservative republican", too. Interesting.

      Given how incredibly conservative Nevada is, I find that an amazingly ironic statement. Your "conservative republican" buddies have already done well by you, it seems.

      As someone who has known many folks, myself included, who have benefited (i.e. avoided being completely screwed over by layoffs, etc) from having unemployment support .. I think this is a damned stupid statement. Your state has some bureaucratic asshattery going on. That's reason to fix matters, not dump out the baby with the bathwater. Look to other states for models that suck less. Or maybe just move to one. In my state (WA), I'm fairly certain the unemployment insurance system is structured so that the blogger in TFA wouldn't have had any cuts at all (or at most that ~ $1/day).

      These benefits enable people to support their families, keep them from becoming homeless, keep some people from entering a downward spiral of poverty, and enables them to reenter and remain a productive part of the workforce. Does it stop all financial damage? Hell no, not in the USA anyways. But it helps out a lot.

    8. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by lgw · · Score: 1

      Ever consider that part of the reason our government needs more money is because we're throwing so much money away on the military industrial complex that makes weapons for a war that will never come and a eternal war on drugs that will erode our civil liberties and fill prisons beyond capacity with nonviolent offenders? Or perhaps the fact that republican tax cuts favor the rich to the point that the middle class is vanishing due to the widening wealth gap?

      We spend more than twice as much on social programs as we do on the military, and while the military-industrial complex has its share of corruption, a lot of that money goes to employing workers, and our vastly underpaid servicemen.

      As far as tax cuts: when the top 1% of the people pay 33% of taxes, and the bottom 33% of people pay 1% of taxes, how can any tax cut not "favor the rich". No income tax cut can favor the bottom 33%, because they don't pay taxes to begin with: they've already been maximally favored.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    9. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you, I really do.

      I'm just angry because now I'm the one who needs support and help. Not only is it being denied from me, its being taken back. I'm just frustrated, and so deeply fundamentally stressed its not even funny. I do agree with you, though.

    10. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Your phone doesn't let you make calls while it is plugged into the charger?

    11. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by nedlohs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By forming an LLC you did own and operate a company, it's the very definition of it.

      Yes the rules are stupid but those are the rules and they're not exactly hidden. Starting a company or accepting contract work nullifies your unemployment in lots of places.

      The government providing incentives to stay on their teat and not provide for yourself as much as possible is par for the course.

    12. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Let me get this straight. You created a company, presumable, with yourself as the sole owner/employee. Thus making you employed REGARDLESS OF THE SUCCESS OF THE COMPANY. You then claimed you were unemployed (e.g. you lied). And now you're pissed that they caught you? /\. needs a FACEPALM moderation

    13. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow - I'd always thought the Republican party was against handouts like unemployment - I'll have to re-read their platform

    14. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      For what it's worth, you did not need to organize an LLC to receive a 1099. In fact, companies don't receive 1099s at all. 1099s are only for individuals.

      Good luck in your job search!

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    15. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by phlinn · · Score: 1

      So how exactly do you blame Libertarians for anything you complained about in your post? I'm not even going to touch the assumptions that go into your spin in your first paragraph, but even accepting them at face value there is nothing there that can be linked to libertarians.

      --
      "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
    16. Re:Nevada is suing me for back unemployment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "if i can't have it, no one should have it?" that's just sour grapes, man.

  39. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by cdrguru · · Score: 2, Insightful

    H&R Block employs housewives and other part-time workers to fill out tax forms. They go through a brief training period, something like 4 weeks at their own expense. They are then "qualified" to work in an H&R Block office preparing tax returns.

    If using H&R Block has only cost you $600, you are lucky indeed unless your income is less than maybe $30,000. Anything more than that, especially with anything that is even remotely complicated - like multiple states, rental property, etc. you are playing with fire trusting H&R Block.

    A real tax preparer would be paying the $600 in fines if they screwed up. A real tax preparer wouldn't have made the mistake in the first place. It does not require a CPA to fill out tax forms as CPA is something entirely different. You need someone that is good at tax preparation. Often these people are also a CPA but being a CPA doesn't mean they know anything about taxes.

    Every year you are required to pay tribute to the government and doing it improperly can result in jail time. Do you really want to trust that to some part-time worker that managed to pay the fee to take the H&R Block class?

  40. ...imagine them in charge of your military by DogDude · · Score: 1

    oh wait...

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
  41. self employed by ico2 · · Score: 1

    If she'd registered as self employed, it would've worked out fine.

    you'd think a lawyer would know that...

    1. Re:self employed by xmundt · · Score: 1

      Greetings and Salutations,
                  Actually, in most cases, if one is listed as Self-Employed, then unemployment benefits are never granted. The reasoning there appears to be that if one works for oneself, then, one is NEVER unemployed. That does not mean one does not have work to do by, the by...
                  it is part of that labyrinth of regulations that makes a 55 gallon drum of cooked spaghetti look simple to trace through.
                  If you think this is unfair, then, you need to let your representative know how things SHOULD be, and, be sure to vote for someone else in the next election if the laws do not change. If enough people did this in America, we would see REAL change in the government. However, since there is only about a 10% to 15% chance that the incumbent will get voted out of office it appears that, for all the fussing and fuming, we all really DO like how things are being run.
                  Pleasant dreams.
                  Dave Mundt

      --
      YAB - http://blog.beemandave.com/
  42. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    H&R Block hires absolutely anyone to preparer taxes. No requirements of prior experience, college degrees, English speaking skills. Heck, they don't even require a highschool diploma. At the same time they pay their employees low wages. If you combine the mandatory "tax class" (teaches them how to point & click in the H&R software) with the rest of their work they're actually paid below minimum wage (because the tax class isn't paid.) Hourly rate here is $9/hour. They can make more -- by commission, but due to the way their commission system is setup first years cannot earn a commission (used to be due to it heavily being based on "returning clients" while a 1st year couldn't have a returning client, though I think they actually removed the commissions from first years all together now.) The sad thing is H&R is not unique. All of the national chains are just as bad, and many of the non-chain stores are even worse. The reality is choosing to use turbotax will produce a more correct return 90% of the time. The other alternative is to pay the big bucks to have a CPA do the return, since they have to meet requirements and pass tests to become a CPA.

  43. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Rycross · · Score: 1

    I was under the impression that H&R Block simply hired trained monkeys that input your information into their software, rather than actual trained tax accountants.

    Offtopic, but have you found anyone reliable? I've always preferred to do my own taxes, but this year my hand will likely be forced, due to marrying a K-1 Visa holder, plus some other fun issues.

  44. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by sexconker · · Score: 1

    they did eventually return the money, minus a fine.

    YOU HAVE PAID TOO MUCH MONEY.
    YOU ARE NOW ASSESSED A $500 FINE.

    Alternatively:

    Pay too much money?
    That's a paddlin'.

  45. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    That's alright, in college I once got an "overpayment" refund from Virginia for $60 and change (on a $200-240 tax bill, as I remember). As a college student I foolishly cashed the check and spent the money. Four years later, I got a letter stating I underpaid my taxes by that $60, and I then owed them that money plus penalties and interest (close to $100). I didn't keep the letter or a copy of the check, so I was stuck paying. I count it as a $40 life lesson in proper record keeping. :-)

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  46. Also work with disability pay by Itninja · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A similar thing happened to my Mom a while ago. She was injured on the job and taking L&I pay. With all her spare time I helped her set up a blog. Eventually she put Google ads on it and started raking in the big bucks (to the tune of about $3/month). After a few months of this, L&I got wind of it and claimed that this proved she was no longer injured and therefore entitled to no benefits.

    She fought this decision and (eventually) won by pointing out that, even though her ads were 'making' money, she had never been paid since her ads never equaled $100 or more (as required by Google). If she had ever reached the $100 mark (even if it had taken years) she probably would have been out of luck.

    But in her case, it all worked out well in the end. Her injury was due to and incident of workplace violence where her employer had been warned of the danger multiple times in the past (but did nothing to protect their people). She settled just a few days ago for $500K.

    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    1. Re:Also work with disability pay by dex22 · · Score: 1

      Is your Mom single?

    2. Re:Also work with disability pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is she single?

    3. Re:Also work with disability pay by Techman83 · · Score: 1

      No, but yours is ;-)

      --
      # cat /dev/mem | strings | grep -i cat
      Damn, my RAM is full of cats. MEOW!!
    4. Re:Also work with disability pay by dex22 · · Score: 1

      Cool! Is she rich? :P

      (I wonder how many people actually tried to google/check to see if top poster's mom IS single? *grins*)

  47. Re:Income is income.. by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

    What, you think it takes hours a day to make posts to a blog? I'm sure people can do a decent post a day in less than 15 minutes.

    Besides, there's only so much time in a day you can spend looking for a job before going crazy, even posting to a blog might seem like a break.

  48. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting, because when I lived in Pennsylvania and worked in New Jersey, the OPPOSITE was true. My employer withheld NJ income tax but no Pennsylvania income tax. Come tax time, I owed a full year's worth of PA income tax but was refunded 100% of the NJ income tax paid.

    Tax is supposed to be based on where you LIVE not where you WORK. Only exception are so-called "commuter taxes". For example, NYC taxes anyone who works there whether or not they live there.

    Long story short, H&R block was right and Oklahoma was wrong. So was California. So was Florida. They happily stole your money.

  49. The clash always said it best by MerlynEmrys67 · · Score: 1

    And number 2
    You have the right to food money
    Providing of course you
    Dont mind a little
    Investigation, humiliation
    And if you cross your fingers
    Rehabilitation

    -- Know your Rights
    Don't forget to check out numbers 1 & 3

    --
    I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
  50. Her blog by Drummergeek0 · · Score: 1

    For anyone interested in what and where the blog in question is: http://stlmealdeals.blogspot.com/. It is not law related, it has to do with restaurant deals in the St Louis area which is where she recently relocated to. Reference: http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/stl-jobwatch/uncategorized/2009/10/re-located-to-st-louis-nyc-lawyer-learns-the-price-of-honesty/

    --
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
  51. Re:Income is income.. by CrAlt · · Score: 1

    Commenting on how others spend their time is my job, you insensitive clod!

    --
    I have to return some videotapes...
  52. A friend of mine in NYC was in a similar situation by Bourdain · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A friend of mine was laid off several weeks ago and he was supposed to start teaching a small class at a local university in NYC just as a lecturer making a nominal amount per week for 2-3 hours of work (perhaps 100-200 or so / week, spread over two days).

    Since NYS unemployment law counts a partial day of work as a full day, regardless of how much money it is, he had to withdraw from teaching the course because his loss in unemployment benefits greatly exceeded his income as a lecturer.

    You just have to love incentive misalignment -- it's a government specialty.

  53. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by value_added · · Score: 1

    I once got threatening letters from the state of Iowa claiming I didn't pay my taxes. They didn't stop until I sent them a copy of my check that they had cashed.

    True story.

    I once received a speeding ticket for $120 (going 65 in a 55 while trying to get away from a tractor trailer who was speeding and swerving into my lane). Paid the fine, and called it a day.

    A few months pass and I receive a Failure to Appear notice. Not wanting to be arrested, I show up in court at 9:00 am as instructed with my bank statement and a copy of the cancelled check. Around 11:00 am I get to present my documentation to the bailiff and am told that I must wait while the matter is investigated. Around 4:00 pm, the judge calls on me and proceeds to tell me that the Court has no record of my payment, and that a cancelled check is not proof of anything. I'm fined $350.

    Sitting the entire day in court I listened to people (many of whom were repeat offenders) lie their asses off and get reduced fines (typically in the $100-200 range) or nothing at all. Me, I've never been arrested and it was the only moving violation I'd received during 20 years of driving, yet I received one of the largest fines of the day.

    Moral of the story? There isn't one. Moral issues have no relevance to people concerned with the functioning of the bureaucracies.

  54. This is why we need Negative Income Tax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    With unemployment and welfare folded into one smooth curve, there're no perverse incentives and we don't have to pay an army of bureaucrats and lawyers to figure out who doesn't deserve assistance.

    1. Re:This is why we need Negative Income Tax by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or a "basic income", which is related:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

      --
      A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  55. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I filed with H&R block once because I was too busy to find a better option. I didn't feel it was worth the huge fee, especially since I used a CPA the following year for only slightly more.

  56. Re:So the big question is: by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

    What part of "New York" confuses you?

    Not sure, mate. We get a few odd confused impressions about what it is from down here in Melbourne, best way to describe it is "two cities divided by a common language" [citation somewhere, can't be buggered to chase it up]. But there are a few clues - $30 for lunch (can you do that in NY nowdays?) vs. the guilty $6 sandwich here makes me think an underemployed lawyer in New York may be making more absolute than your average corporate exec down here. It's about proportion, I guess, but ... I've also heard people from New York say "everything west of the East River is camping out". That's not really arrogant, is it? Probably not indicative.

    You go ahead and dream of your electric sheep though, I don't mind. Just don't electrocute yourself by standing in a wet paddock. XD

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  57. Re:So the big question is: by MrMr · · Score: 1

    They changed it because the Americans wanted to be subjects of the English king and not an independent settlement.
    Apparently they changed their minds a century later.

  58. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I call bullshit.

    1) Florida has no income tax.

    2) From the H&R block website: "With the H&R Block Guarantee included in every tax return, if penalty and interest charges are owed due to H&R Block's error, those penalties and interest on federal, state and local returns are paid. If the IRS audits your client, an H&R Block representative will assist in answering questions regarding your clients return."

    Good luck with your revenge.

  59. Re:Income is income.. by TaggartAleslayer · · Score: 1

    Misdirected personal rage much?

  60. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by snspdaarf · · Score: 2, Funny

    I hear there is an honest, unemployed lawyer in New York. See if she can practice in Virginia, and sue Block.

    --
    Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
  61. Shakespeare... by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

    I'm with William Shakespeare on this one.

    http://www.enotes.com/shakespeare-quotes/lets-kill-all-lawyers

    --
    Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    1. Re:Shakespeare... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      As much as I agree that fewer lawyers would be better, it should be remembered that "Let's kill all the lawyers" is part of a plan for the installation of communist autocracy:

      "I thank you, good people--there shall be no money; all shall eat and drink on my score, and I will apparel them all in one livery, that they may agree like brothers, and worship me their lord."

      A rather backhanded endorsement of the idea, one would think.

    2. Re:Shakespeare... by lgw · · Score: 1

      Try not to attribute the beliefs of a character in a story to the author. Especially a character who is portrayed as a bit of an idiot in said story.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  62. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mal-practice?

    Seriously, if they can't figure out what state you need to pay taxes in, and convince you that you are wrong, (when in fact you are right) and you take a monetary hit as a result, that seems like they have represented you rather poorly.

  63. Re:A friend of mine in NYC was in a similar situat by CompMD · · Score: 1

    I was one of the myriad aerospace workers who lost his job last year. After a couple months, my friends started saying "why don't you just get something simple to make a few bucks and give you something to do?" Simply, I told them that I'd have to give up the unemployment benefits, which were more than twice what I'd make with some random hourly job in town. It made more financial sense to NOT get a temporary job while I was looking for a new full time job. After four months of going crazy doing nothing but looking for work, I finally got a new job. Shortly thereafter, I receive a W2 from the state telling me I had to pay income tax on my unemployment benefits. What a wonderful world.

  64. In my state extra income is great when unemployed by RJFerret · · Score: 1

    Here, your benefits run out in six months, unless you have contract or side work (anything less than full time). In that case, your unemployment check is reduced by your earnings, to zero if you exceed your benefit amount.

    The system handles it automatically and it was fabulous when I transitioned from full time to part time work--I had benefits to fall back on (for a couple years, as I did rather well) and something to carry through the slow months (August and December in that field).

    This method would be a real boon to anyone starting a business too.

    Glad I didn't live in NY!

  65. wouldn't a negative income tax solve this problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    i mean, it looks like it work,

    you get a base salary no matter what, which is pegged to the poverty line.

  66. Re:So the big question is: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  67. Can somebody make a living on adsense? by timeOday · · Score: 1

    Somewhat tangential to the story, but how many people do make a living on checks from google adsense? I've looked around and not been able to find any good info on whether it's worth trying to make a website to make some money off adsense.

    1. Re:Can somebody make a living on adsense? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, you can't make a living off of it. Google throttles down your profits to never exceed $20/day average, no matter your hits.

      For example, my site, I made $20/day back when I got 3000 hits/day. I now get 16k hits/day. Guess how much I make? $18/day. Doing the math, for the effort I made less than ~$2/hour. This hasn't changed for the last ~4 years.

      The average site owner would make just enough to break even with a nice virtual private server.

      And it won't change until Google gets competition.

    2. Re:Can somebody make a living on adsense? by amorsen · · Score: 1

      I believe the Adsense agreement prohibits sharing details about your adsense earnings, but hopefully it should be ok to say that www.generals.dk with ~20000 unique visitors each month probably makes around the same amount of money as that blog.

      If you optimized so you got ten times as much money per visitor, you'd likely still need ten times as many visitors.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    3. Re:Can somebody make a living on adsense? by Terrasque · · Score: 1

      I tried to put ads on a wiki I was running. Small stuff, maybe 100 visitors per day. Was hoping it could pay for its own hosting at least.

      So far, in around 3 years, I've earned about 10 dollars. Total. Need 100 dollars for google to pay it out.

      This was a wiki about a strategy game, so visitors might be more computer savy than regular web users.

      So, you'll either need a lot more visitors, more gullible users, or a combination.

      Ad views : 250.000 - clicks : 65

      --
      It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
  68. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why didn't they pay for their screw-up? I thought they had iron-clad guarantees that they pay for their mistakes?

  69. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by nolesrule · · Score: 1

    Florida doesn't have an income tax.

    --
    -- nolesrule
  70. State tax reciprocal agreements by vxvxvxvx · · Score: 3, Informative

    No. Actually taxes are based on both where you live and where you work. That is, you are subject to their income tax rules if you live OR work in the state. Most states have built into their tax codes methods to avoid double taxation between states. The majority of these are via a credit on the resident state tax return for taxes paid to the non-resident state. Or, in other words, the state where you WORK gets the tax money. So for example, if you were a resident of Colorado on a temporary assignment in Texas, you would pay Colorado income tax on that money, because there's no income tax from Texas to generate a credit. If you were a resident of Colorado on a temporary assignment in California, you would file a tax return for both California and Colorado. You would pay the California taxes, and then apply taxes paid to California as a credit on your Colorado return and end up not paying Colorado income tax (so long as California has equal or greater tax rates than Colorado, otherwise Colorado would take the difference.)

    There are certain exceptions. For example a few states have reciprocal agreements. As you experienced, Pennsylvania and New Jersey have a reciprocal agreement. What that means is the states have an agreement not to tax each other's residents. So Pennsylvania residents that work in New Jersey will pay only Pennsylvania income tax and New Jersey residents that work in Pennsylvania will pay only New Jersey income tax. But this is the EXCEPTION not the RULE. In fact, Pennsylvania only has reciprocal agreements with 6 states (Indiana, Maryland, New Jersey, Ohio, Virginia, West Virginia) - had you worked in any other state with an income tax you would have paid income tax to the state you worked in. And the majority of states have no reciprocal agreements at all.

    1. Re:State tax reciprocal agreements by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      We in australia have solved these problems, we have an Federal Govt that takes in all income taxes.

      Easy see?

      Or is this another one of those paranoid libertarian issues the US has so many of?

    2. Re:State tax reciprocal agreements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All those state taxes they are talking about are in addition to the federal taxes we all pay. Which by the way, both taxes are calculated approximately on the same income so neither reduces the income for the other. Nice double tax there.

  71. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  72. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like a solid foundation for a lawsuit. Maybe the subject of TFA can help you out... :)

  73. Don't worry, they'll get health care right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Right???

    1. Re:Don't worry, they'll get health care right... by captainpanic · · Score: 1

      Funny that in the Netherlands privatization of healthcare has made it more expensive... and you're afraid of an increase in costs from the exact opposite.

    2. Re:Don't worry, they'll get health care right... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me point something out to you: Netherlands != USA. The US has 250 Million residents. Congress and the President are trying to ram through legislation that doesn't have any enforcement provisions for keeping illegal immigrants from receiving health insurance, yet again fucking over the middle class. I seriously doubt that the Netherlands has as big of an immigration problem as the US does, and I know the Netherlands doesn't just IGNORE the issue like the US government does. Can I, as a US citizen, enter the Netherlands illegally and expect to receive free food, housing, and medical care indefinitely? If not, then please shut the fuck up.

  74. Re:In my state extra income is great when unemploy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    New York does something similar. If you work part time one day a week and make less than $405 - your benefits are reduced by 25%. If you work two days a week and are still under $405 - your unemployment check is reduced by 50%... and so on... until you work 4 days a week and then your benefits are automatically cut to $0 even if you're still making less than $405.

    So nobody can get a 5 day per week part time job and still collect, even if they're only working one hour each day, but you can get a part time job where you work 23 hours on Monday.

    If she was updating the blog once a day and it counts as "working" then she'd be disqualified each week. If she updated it once a week, she wouldn't - which is stupid, it should all be based upon income.

  75. Re:So the big question is: by ElSupreme · · Score: 1

    WHOOSH! www.theymightbegiants.com

    --
    My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
  76. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

    ... professionals. Last year H&R Block ...

    H&R Block are "Tax preparers", not accountants. If you worked in more than two states over five years, for all that is holy GET A REAL ACCOUNTANT!

    Professionals *DO* understand tax liabilities. That's why they deserve the $. H&R Block aren't professionals, and you get better guidance with a software box than the minimum-wage seasonal worker who prepares your return at H&R block.

    Oh, and check your agreement with H&R block, too. Depending on state, you mgiht be able to bill them for that $600. (If it was an accountant in NY, you definitely could.)

  77. Re:Not so fast, says the IRS... by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

    In some cases if a single source of income earns you less than $500 a year, you may not have to report it. But the 1099 Form would be filled out anyway and a copy sent to the IRS that unemployment could see as income.

    In this economy being self-employed and working freelance and having web advertising and blogs might be the only way some people are able to get a job and earn income. She needs to offer her services on those freelance web sites if unemployment cuts her off and earn enough to start up her own small business. Then the small business earns the web advertising and it does not count for her personal income, as long as she doesn't pay herself a salary, the small business can earn income and pay off the house bill if the home is used for the small business. She just would have to file business taxes separate from her personal taxes.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  78. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how about you DO YOUR OWN TAXES you fucking lazy wanker.

  79. Government bureaucrats are usually idiots.. by mi · · Score: 1

    All government bureaucrats are usually idiots — what makes you think, Feds are any brighter?

    The whole thing sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare, with NY State asking her to get a form from her new 'employer' who didn't exist. Then NY Department of Labor started giving her all sorts of contradicting information, and eventually an 'investigation' into her 'business' -- during which time her unemployment benefits were stopped entirely.

    Hey, I have an idea! Let's turn health care over to these people — just to see, if they perform better this time, than they did with public schools and highways...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  80. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by ElSupreme · · Score: 1

    Yeah if you paid FL income tax you sure were being ripped off.

    FL, TX, AK, NH, TN, SD, WA, NV, WY, all have NO STATE INCOME TAX.

    --
    My addiction: Arguing with idiots. AKA Slashdot!
  81. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

    Didn't you pay for tax insurance? That way if H&R Block butchers your tax filing and you get sued or owe money, they would have someone from H&R represent you and pay part of the fees and back taxes.

    H&R Block is basically temporary workers who only work tax season and they use H&R Block's tax software to file the taxes for you and charge you $300 or more for the service. You can buy the H&R Block Taxcut software which does the same as the software the H&R Block Employees use, or use the TurboTax software instead. They both have a tax insurance option as well, but cost less than the $300+ H&R Block and other tax companies charge. If you are computer savvy enough to fill out electronic forms and wizards then you can use your own tax software like TaxCut or TurboTax to file your own taxes. They are programmed to catch mistakes like working in a State and not paying taxes on it, but the software that H&R Block uses for employees does not have that sort of failsafe and depends on the worker to know the tax laws.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  82. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    How on earth do you plan on getting revenge? How could you get revenge?

    --
    Qxe4
  83. Umm... duh? by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    Well, duh. That's how unemployment works: if you earn any money at all during a week, your benefits are reduced by at least that amount (maybe more, depending on things like how many hours you worked). Anybody who's had to deal with working short-term jobs while collecting unemployment knows this headache well. Yes, that means that it's not in your best interest to have any income at all while trying to collect unemployment, unless that income's more (after taxes and such) than your unemployment benefits. This leads to an unpleasant balancing act trying to meet the "looked for N jobs this week" requirement while not getting stuck with a job that'll only last a couple of days and won't pay enough to make up for the lost benefits.

    All I can say to this lawyer is, welcome to the world most people have to deal with.

    1. Re:Umm... duh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure that's what she thought would happen. She'd report the income and the money would get subtracted. I'm assuming she didn't think her payments would just stop entirely.

    2. Re:Umm... duh? by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Unfortunately, that's not what the unemployment rules say. Your benefits aren't reduced if you're earning income, they end when you take a job or become self-employed. If you become unemployed again within a certain length of time, you can resume your previous claim instead of having to file a new one.

      This is one reason I'd personally like to take welfare and unemployment, fold them all into one system and re-write the rules:

      If you're disabled, elderly or a minor, you qualify automatically.

      If you're healthy and able to work, you qualify if:

      1. You're currently working and making less than 2x the benefit amount each week.
      2. You're not working, are looking for work and are willing to take work if offered to you.
      3. You've been turned down for jobs because of lack of qualifications and are taking classes that'll qualify you for jobs available in your area.

      In all cases, your benefits are calculated by taking the maximum benefit amount you qualify for that week and subtracting 1/2 of your income for that week. The maximum benefit amount is just the larger of a) the current welfare benefit you'd qualify for and b) the amount of unemployment benefit you'd get by virtue of what you've paid in while working. No disruptions, no bouncing back and forth, the only real distinction is at the point where you exhaust your unemployment account and drop back to the welfare benefit amount.

  84. Re:An Unemployed... Lawyer? by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually yes lawyers can be unemployed. I worked as a programmer in a law firm, and a lawyer was hired as a programmer because he claimed he couldn't find work as a lawyer. I trained him on Visual BASIC, Crystal Reports, and ASP 2.0 VBScript programming. After six months working as a programmer, he claimed he couldn't handle it, and that the job was too stressful and he quit and got hired as a lawyer by a rival law firm. I don't know why a lawyer would want to work as a programmer without any programming experience, but as I taught/tutored him in programming he taught me a bit about lawyers and the law. Unless a lawyer is well known, or working for a major law firm, they can suffer from periods of unemployment. Since he got a job working as a programmer for the big law firm we both worked in, it helped a rival big law firm hire him on. He couldn't get a job at my employer as a lawyer so he applied for a programmer position, as he had entry level knowledge and I was always given the task to train new programmers to get them up to speed because I have a lot of experience and worked in a college computer lab training students and debugging programs, and other jobs where I trained programmers like when I was a federal contractor for the US Army before that.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  85. Re:Not so fast, says the IRS... by vxvxvxvx · · Score: 2, Informative

    You're probably thinking of the requirement to issue a 1099-misc (which is $600/year) or the requirement to pay self employment tax on self employment income ($400/year). There is no "don't have to report if less than $500/year" law. Due to the rounding done on a tax return, you effectively don't have to report anything less than $0.50 (because it rounds to 0) but otherwise you are legally required to report income regardless of amount. Now, despite the fact you're supposed to report all income in practice a lot does not get reported. Anything received in cash where an information document is not filed to the IRS often is not filed simply to avoid paying tax on it. Interest and dividend income under $10 is often not reported because no 1099-int or 1099-div is filed for amounts under $10 (in a tax system where most people just dump all the 1099's and w-2's at their tax person's office people simply don't think about it, it's not intentional tax evasion and most of the time makes no difference anyway.)

  86. Re:So the big question is: by afidel · · Score: 1

    You can eat a very filling $5 lunch two blocks from Wallstreet, I know, I've done it. There are a number of pizza shops that sell slices as big as your chest for a couple of bucks and sell soda by the can for like $1. You can also go one block over and get the Kobe burger and a glass of nice French red for $500, but I'm pretty sure you can do that in any world capital.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  87. Unemployment Check? by Trogre · · Score: 1

    What, she loses the ability to check her unemployment?

    Oh, upon reading TFS I see they mean she lost her unemployment cheque.

    Stupid cultures different from mine.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  88. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by kz45 · · Score: 1

    "Moral of the story? There isn't one. Moral issues have no relevance to people concerned with the functioning of the bureaucracies."

    and people want their health care to be run like this..ha!

  89. Probably redundant, but... by TDyl · · Score: 1

    it's only a lawyer for $YOUR_CHOICE_OF_DEITY sake.

    --
    Todd: I hope it proves as delicious as the farmers that grew them
  90. The need for lawyers... by Burning1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People attempt to use loopholes all the time - the difference between the people and lawyers is that layers tend to be good at it.

    Regarding the need for lawyers - it will always exist, even without such a complex legal system. A lawyer isn't simply about knowing the law, but also presenting a case with confidence and consistency - a professional presence.

    I fight a lot of traffic tickets. Despite knowing quite a bit about the law, I still hand the cases over to a traffic lawyer - I need someone who is capable of going toe to toe with judges, officers, and DA - people who have a lot of experience intimidating the public.

    I also use a lawyer because it's more efficient - it costs me more in time and lost wages to fight a traffic citation than it costs to hire someone to do it for me.

    1. Re:The need for lawyers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could try just obeying the traffic laws...

    2. Re:The need for lawyers... by Burning1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I win most of my cases because the county doesn't obey the law either.

      Also, please don't confuse 'safe' with 'legal.'

    3. Re:The need for lawyers... by gnud · · Score: 1

      If you lowered your average speed by, say 5 mph, you would lose seconds, but save a lot of lawyers wages (and possibly lives).


      Note that by 'you' I mean speeders. P might be talking about something else entirely.

  91. Boy, I sure want govt. health care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The Govt. is sure efficient at cost savings. They should run ALL of health care in addition to unemployment.

  92. idiotic, but that's how UI works... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the main reasons that UI works this way is that it is that it is an employer based insurance scheme (not an employee based insurance scheme). The employer pays into the system and gets rated based on their record of not letting people go (theoretically "good" employers that don't fire people all the time will pay a lower rate than "bad" employers and make them more competitive). Unfortunatly, when there is no previous employer, there's nobody to ding with increased rates. Rather than just let the insurance fund slowly become insolvent when there is no previous employer to soak, they just try to deny benefits to anyone that wants benefits, but they can't stick the costs anywhere.

    True story, it happened to a friend of mine that owns a small business (2 employee mom-pop shop). One of their employees quit because they were going to move. My friend's insurance gets ding when the employee claims uninsurance benefits. The way the code is written when they grant benefits, someone has to get dinged. Even though my friend didn't do anything wrong, because her employee quit because the employee wanted to move, yet claimed benefits anyhow, her rating was dinged. Now my friend is in a pickle because her UI rate goes up, her employee quit, she just had a baby and now has to hire a new employee and train them too in her copious spare time. She was planning to cut back hours, but now not so much. Not that the UI increase is that much (probably will only amount to about $400/year more), but she's losing money right now ant this is just insult to injury. I'm just wondering how small businesses will survive in this economy. The feds constantly extend UI benefits, but there's no letting up on the small businesses that fund the UI system.

    Sad that it comes down to it as "us" vs "them" on who can survive in this economy. Small businesses (even the ones that are trying to do right) are taking it in the tooth...

    If you are self employed, a student, or otherwize, the fund has nobody to ding and they will do their darndest to deny you benefits.

    FYI, if you are wondering how you can quit and still claim UI benefits, claim you quit because you had a good reason (like to move to a cheaper apartment far from your current job, or closer to your family to take care of you whilst you are unemployed), apparently that's a good enough reason to stick it to your previous employer (at least in California).

  93. H&R block sucks, I concur by jwhitener · · Score: 1

    I agree. After years of doing turbo tax myself, and messing up once due to not understanding tax law, I decided to pay "the professionals" to do it for me.

    I payed H&R something like 175 dollars to do the taxes, and then got a bill from the state saying it was messed up and I owed 250 dollars more..... jerks.

    Oh, and the original "mess up" that happened is just as odd imo. I was working in a state with no state income tax. Through that job, I had a 401k (or 403b, I forget). At any rate, I got a new job in a state with income tax. Before I left the old state, I received a cash payout of all the money in my 401k. Just a check in my hand, earned in a state with no state income tax.

    I took that check with me to the new state, and the day I moved into my new apartment, I cased the check to help cover my first/last month rent/moving expenses.

    Come tax time, the new state decided they wanted something like 20% of that check because it was income deposited into my account while living in their state..... nevermind it was earned and already taxed under the the old states tax laws. If I cashed the check one day earlier in the old state, I would have saved 7,000 dollars.....

  94. Assholes by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Informative

    I call this the law of Assholes.

    Assholes ruin everything for everyone else. They go searching for ways to be just annoying enough to be an "asshole" but take great care and diligence to make sure that they don't run afoul of any rules/laws that might be in place.

    It doesn't matter where you draw the rules/laws, they are assholes, and will always exploit the current version to perfection.

    Then, somebody comes along and says "There ought to be a law" because of some asshole somewhere. There is no cure for assholes, because they will always exist. And passing ridiculous rules/laws to prevent them from being assholes is stupid as it is pointless.

    I know one asshole, when confronted about being an asshole ("you're ruining it for everyone else"), said "I don't care, I'm just playing by the rules". And when the rules changed because of the asshole, it diminishes us all. They don't care about "everyone else" which is why they are assholes.

    They just need to have their asses kicked.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    1. Re:Assholes by apoc.famine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's a partial excuse. The more full excuse is that we decided that the LETTER of the law was more important than the SPIRIT of the law.
       
      I'm not enough of a legal philosopher to figure out how to fix the problem, but I have hope in some society some day someone does so.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    2. Re:Assholes by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

      Why should they care? They're acting in a completely logical fashion. Do whatever is best for you, because who cares about everyone else. In the end we all die anyway, so there's no reason I shouldn't do what's best for me to enjoy it while I can.

    3. Re:Assholes by bro1 · · Score: 1

      I'm all for rules and agreements, however in our current society model, where society is governed by government those rules are imposed on everyone - whether you agreed to them or not.

      Some of the rules are unfair. For example, taxes or mandatory conscription to army (in some countries)... In such cases I mostly support people who are tying to avoid being forced into something they did not agree with in the first place.

      Is paying taxes to a government just because you were born in that particular country is much different from slavery?

    4. Re:Assholes by SirAstral · · Score: 1

      Its the american citizen that needs their asses kicked.

      Very, very, very, so very few know that the job of serving on a jury is not just to determine a person's innocence or guilt vs the law. It is also to determine the law in question. If as a jurist you feel that the law in question is being unfairly used against the defendant then not only is it your right as a jurist to submit a not-guilty verdict, it is your DUTY! There is a mass of delusion in the land of the free, and almost none of them understands that serving on a Jury is really just another voting system. You get a chance to vote against the very law itself! The founding fathers intended just this system to help keep the festering lawyers and loop hole escapes from becoming a problem. However, this system will not work if the masses at large are wholesomely ignorant like they are today!

    5. Re:Assholes by dissy · · Score: 1

      Do whatever is best for you, because who cares about everyone else. In the end we all die anyway, so there's no reason I shouldn't do what's best for me to enjoy it while I can.

      Because, by similar logic, some people feel that in the end everyone will die anyway, but until that end gets here, we all have to live together. And pissing off everyone around you will only hinder any goals you have to enjoy it while you can, while at the same time helping others can result in returns from those other people that are far far more enjoyable than what one can do alone.

      To each their own, but not everyone is made happy or miserable by the same things.

    6. Re:Assholes by AnotherUsername · · Score: 1

      Is paying taxes to a government just because you were born in that particular country is much different from slavery?

      Yes. It is completely different from slavery. Do you have the ability to leave? Yes. At any time. Do you have the ability to work your way up, to become rich? Yes. Are you whipped when you or merely appear to do something wrong, without the benefit of a trial? No.

      Anti-government types and tax-haters piss me off. Do you use roads? Do you pay per mile on those roads? Do you use public services like police, fire, hospitals to keep you safe and healthy? If you have ever had to call the police or fire department, did they ask for a valid credit card number first, or did they just come? Did you go to a public elementary/middle/high school? Did you have to pay your way through those schools? Do you use the military to keep you free, or do you have your own private army?

      Taxes are necessary because you live in a society. Part of living in a society means that everyone lends a hand to keep that society going. If you don't want to live in this society, where you have to pay taxes to support the infrastructure, nobody is stopping you from moving out and living on some tiny tropical island where you can live alone and make everything yourself and you'll never have to pay another cent to the government again.

      --
      I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
    7. Re:Assholes by AnotherUsername · · Score: 1

      So you are saying that if I like your car, I can come over and take it, because, hey, it's best for me, and since in the end we all die anyway, there's no reason I shouldn't steal your car, because it would be best for me to enjoy it while I can.

      --
      I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
    8. Re:Assholes by gnud · · Score: 1

      LIBERAL HIPPIE COMMIE



      ;)

    9. Re:Assholes by hab136 · · Score: 1

      The more full excuse is that we decided that the LETTER of the law was more important than the SPIRIT of the law.

      It's impossible to get a room full of people to agree on the spirit of the law. It's slightly less impossible to get them to agree on the letter.

    10. Re:Assholes by vegiVamp · · Score: 1

      You start by severely reducing the import of precedent in your legal system. Then you test all your judges for a minimum measure of common sense, and shoot the lacking ones on sight. Thirdly, you permit judges to fine lawyers who try to win a case by trying to force a non-obvious meaning of the written laws that contradict the obvious spirit of the law. Repeat offenders may also be shot on sight.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    11. Re:Assholes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was denied unemployment benefits in NY. The reason : I might make money in future. As a self employed contractor, I paid unemployment insurance for more than 10+ years. I told the interviewer I have received no income since June 2008. He said you still using your phone and a website, right. I said Yes. (idiot me). Then he declared in a missive I received in mail, "No Unemployment Benefits". Reminded me of a Seinfeld episode, "No Soup for you".

    12. Re:Assholes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anti-government types and tax-haters piss me off. Do you use roads? Do you pay per mile on those roads?

      Yes. I ride my bicycle on the roads. Please explain why I pay as much taxes (that go to fix the roads) as a person who drives a two-ton SUV.

      Do you use public services like police, fire, hospitals to keep you safe and healthy? If you have ever had to call the police or fire department, did they ask for a valid credit card number first, or did they just come?

      Over my life, I've paid WAY more than I've received.

      Did you go to a public elementary/middle/high school? Did you have to pay your way through those schools?

      No, my mom paid. But these days, it seems parents are expected to pay for and donate school supplies to their kids schools. Where are my taxes going again?? Certainly not to buy paper, scissors, glue. Yet my taxes are higher than my mom's were.

      Do you use the military to keep you free, or do you have your own private army?

      There's no way any country would actually try to attack the US. Too many people , too much land area to effectively control. Any occupying army would have citizen snipers shooting them from the rooftops. So, the military is really only useful to go to other countries and take over them. And it sucks at that, too.

      Also, if the damn government would stop infringing on my Right to Keep and Bear Arms, I'd be more than capable of defending my country, should it need me.

      Taxes are necessary because you live in a society. Part of living in a society means that everyone lends a hand to keep that society going. If you don't want to live in this society, where you have to pay taxes to support the infrastructure, nobody is stopping you from moving out and living on some tiny tropical island where you can live alone and make everything yourself and you'll never have to pay another cent to the government again.

      Great. So, where is this island, so we can start sending all the illegals and jobless/homeless there?

    13. Re:Assholes by phlinn · · Score: 1

      I prefer the shorter, slightly related statement form: Hard cases make bad law. This puts the onus on those making the law not to spend so much time chasing extremely rare odd cases. Part of the benefit of Judges and Juries, along prosecutor and police officer's discretion, is the ability to apply a broad law in a tailored fashion. Instead lawmakers turn circles into the Mandelbrot set by trying to specify each possible case in advance.

      --
      "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
    14. Re:Assholes by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

      Yep. I have no right to tell you otherwise. Other than defending my property because that's what's best for _me_.

  95. tough call? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On one hand, I want to say, "The State of NY are insensitive clods to let a few dollars' worth of ads be the justification for taking away her unemployment benefits."

    But, on the other hand, maybe it shouldn't be the state's responsibility to subsidize those who can't make enough through their chosen occupation/hobby. I would totally quit my current job to sit around and post Slashdot comments all day whilst receiving a weekly $405 check from the state.

    Also, I found this bit in TFA amusing:

    Earlier this year Karin--a 2008 graduate from the University of Virginia School of Law who asked that her last name not be published

    Oh really? I wonder how many Karin's graduated from the UoV law school in 2008 and now live in St. Louis? A quick Google search or two reveals that this is her Linked-In page. She uses her initials "KMCA" on the blog mentioned TFA (STL Meal Deals) and her full name is Karin McAnaney.

  96. No, it's not the law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The law states that (and this bit DOES vary) that less than a certain level of income does not have to be reported for unemployment purposes.

    TAX purpose, yes.

    Unemployment, no.

  97. MOD PARENT UP by SETIGuy · · Score: 1

    Too many people don't seem to know the rules for reporting income on their taxes. Until they've been audited that is.

  98. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by NonSequor · · Score: 1

    they did eventually return the money, minus a fine.

    YOU HAVE PAID TOO MUCH MONEY.
    YOU ARE NOW ASSESSED A $500 FINE.

    Alternatively:

    Pay too much money?
    That's a paddlin'.

    I can actually see the justification in that. You've got to figure that some desk jockey is going to have to spend some time investigating your claim that you've mistakenly paid taxes and then at least two higher tier desk jockeys will have to sign off on it. If they didn't fine you for wasting their time then the extra personnel costs for investigating one-off cases would fall on their own tax payers.

    --
    My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
  99. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by lgw · · Score: 1

    When you pay the government you need to get a government form as a receipt. A cancelled check means nothing to a government - only a government form has meaning.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  100. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by SETIGuy · · Score: 1

    Government bureaucracies aren't the only kind. You haven't lived until you've been raped by a corporate bureaucracy.

  101. So sad by smoker2 · · Score: 1

    Hang on, who TOLD them about the blog ?
    Self inflicted I'm afraid. I recently played the game here in the UK and declared 3 days work I had done in the previous 2 weeks (Thur, Fri and following Mon). Their response ? Oh, Well our week runs from signing day to signing day (Tue) so that means you have to sign off. Great. so much for being honest. Last fucking time. (BTW, declaring work done means you get no money but don't have to spend 3 weeks re-signing on and waiting a month for money to live on) - tl; dr; don't work for agencies.

  102. Better still... by Civil_Disobedient · · Score: 1

    So all we have to do is give everyone in the country $1/day

    The really great thing about it is you only have to give them a dollar a day for something-like 18 months. After which time, they'll no longer be eligible for unemployment benefits.

    No longer eligible for benefits == No longer counted as unemployed.

    According to this recent article:

    The share of the unemployed who were out of work for at least six months reached 35.6 percent in September, the most since the agency began keeping statistics in 1948.

    So... the official unemployment rate is hovering just under 10%, and yet a third of those people have been unemployed for at least 6 months.

    That "just under 10%" figure is a blatant fucking lie, and the government knows it but won't change their official metrics because honesty is just too damned discouraging. The real unemployment rate is well into the double digits.

  103. Which is how it works here by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    The government wants you to try to find work, even temp work. After all, any money they don't have to give you is a good thing in their book and temp work can lead to permanent work and so on. So the way it works here is you have to report everything you make. Whatever you make is deducted from your benefits. So if you got work for a week and made more than your benefits, you'd get no benefits that week. Next week no work, you get full benefits, the week after you got a small job that paid $50, you'd get your benefits less $50. Benefits only stop when you get regular work.

    This is win-win. The state wins because it pays out less, and maybe you get off UI faster. You win because it extends your benefits time (any time they aren't paying out) and maybe you get off UI faster.

    Seems really stupid to have a "You make any money you don't get UI," system. That'll do nothing but encourage people to either lie about what they make, or to avoid going and getting any work unless it is regular work.

  104. Yep by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Had problem with people like this on forums I've run. Habitual line steppers. They want to know right where the line is so they can dance right up to the edge of it. Then they always try to play the victim when yelled at. Making complex rules doesn't work either, they just keep it up. As such, on the forums I've worked on the rules got simplified: Don't be an asshole. I (or the other admins) am the arbiter of what that means. Over all, it works much better since everyone, including assholes, seems to understand it. While there is occasional bitching about vagueness (from assholes), seems to be that adults over all get the idea of what being an asshole is.

    Now I'm not saying such a system would work for the courts, just affirming what the parent is saying that assholes are the problem and that complex rules don't seem to help.

    1. Re:Yep by dkf · · Score: 1

      Now I'm not saying such a system would work for the courts, just affirming what the parent is saying that assholes are the problem and that complex rules don't seem to help.

      Actually, it does work. It's done by using laws that state that people must behave "reasonably" (which has a technical legal meaning) rather than trying to enumerate all possible ways that people can be bad. Over time, courts fill out the boundary with case law, of course, but by keeping statute simple, things work out reasonably practical (and determinations will often come down to "was he being a bigger dick than the other guy?").

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
  105. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by societyofrobots · · Score: 1

    Worse than me!

    I was out of the country during tax season, meaning by tax law I had an additional 2 months to file my taxes. I can simply state that in my return.

    But HR Block insisted that I needed to revoke my US citizenship to file 2 months late (wtf?). The rep also contradicted the instructions on the forms, even when specifying the form number and asking for a clarification.

    In effect, the rep refused to make any statements on my form, was fairly rude, and then the IRS came at me with fees.

    An *hour* on the phone with the IRS, and they agreed to waive the fees. Actually, that IRS call was fairly peaceful/civil, albeit long.

    Moral of the story: HR doesn't hire anyone familiar with tax law. So treat their advice as such.

    Ranting this out made me feel better =)

  106. Not at all the same by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    For two reasons: First off is that we are continually working to simplify programming. One of the goals that many new languages and IDEs and so on work towards is easier development. That is the point behind something like a rapid application development IDE like Visual Studio, one of the major points behind a managed language like C#. So there very much is an effort to make things simpler in computer programming for humans. There is a long way to go, but it is being worked on and there has been progress. We've gone from having to program in binary machine language with switches on the original computers to visual development environments in a quasi-English language now.

    Law seems to be going the other way. As time goes on laws become more complex, more onerous. A great example is copyright law. This is one average people need to deal with, yet the law on it is so complex that the issues are confusing to even those educated in it. It just keeps getting worse too.

    The second reason is that computers work in a certain way and that is just how things are. Computers understand the world in a particular fashion, one very different from humans. A good example would be that computers, at a fundamental level, don't understand ambiguity. Everything in a CPU is deterministic. The state of everything is precisely known, and based on the instructions given the next state is perfectly predictable. Well that puts constraints on how things have to be explained to the computer. It is also what makes the computer so useful to us.

    It isn't really complexity, it is extremely simplicity however in a way humans aren't good at thinking. The complex part for humans is clarifying our ideas to a way the computer can understand.

    At the very least law should be working towards a simpler state. However it isn't, it is fast getting more and more complex.

  107. Re:Not so fast, says the IRS... by maxume · · Score: 1

    I've had people actively tell me that small amounts of interest are not required to be reported. I've ignored them, but they aren't making an accidental mistake, they have failed to understand the requirements.

    --
    Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
  108. It's even worse in Sweden by narooze · · Score: 1

    Here in Sweden a blogger (without any income from the blog at all) got the verdict that blogging is an occupation and therefore he must either quit blogging or loose his unemployment check.

    http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/arbetslos-bloggare-kraver-besked-om-a-kassa-1.842969

    1. Re:It's even worse in Sweden by gordguide · · Score: 1

      Self-employment can be an issue with Unemployment in Canada as well, although there are ways, if you jump through the hoops, to be self-employed while collecting EI ("Employment Insurance").

      In this particular case she would simply have to show that she ran the blog while she was employed. If you can do both, you get to continue to do the stuff you were doing on your own without risk of being disqualified, as you have shown you can be a wage slave and enterprising go-getter at the same time.

      It works the same way for going to school ... if you were working when you were enrolled in college, you can collect EI if you are laid off. If not, being enrolled in college is grounds for disqualification, unless you clear it first (which usually means taking a 3-month course that leads directly to some field that some policy wonk learned four years ago will be in demand two years ago).

      However anyone who has had even the most casual experience with a bureaucracy knows that you only answer what you are asked, you never volunteer anything, and anything out of the ordinary is likely to flag you for scrutiny, so you try to frame your answers in the most ordinary fashion at all times.

      It goes against all that to volunteer you have a blog that pays you $5 a week and you've been running it for years.

  109. KING NIGGER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Way to go unemployment services. I had this guy as a lawyer once, he got me screwed over horribly and I had to spend 20 years in prison with a guy named bubba.

  110. Kurt Evans by kingkurtus · · Score: 1

    That's outrageously offensive and it doesn't make sense. Money changes hands all the time among friends that isn't taxed. There are some things that the government just needs to stay out of. A person should have the right to try to make money with their writing without having to worry about the government taking it away. Granted, that if you make over a certain amount, you should report that because it's the right thing to do; but otherwise they should leave people alone.

    --
    http://www.squidoo.com/freelance-writing-1 http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/284881/kurt_evans.html
  111. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by thePowerOfGrayskull · · Score: 1
    A coupel years ago, TaxCut (H&R block) told me I was due a nice refund. I checked everything, and it was all in order, so I took the federal refund. This year, I get a "you owe us!" nastygram from the federal government.

    I contacted H&R block and they said, "Oh, I see what you did (looking @ web-based filing records)... checked option "X" instead of "Y"". Of course, I've filed with that software before and after that year, and always checked "Y" (as evidenced by no massive refund). I can even comfortably say I distinctly /remember/ checking "Y". Nonetheless - I have no proof, while they can make any proof they need to show how it wasn't their fault.

    Net result: H&R block will have cost me about $800 in fees, plus a couple thousand dollars in refunded money that I no longer have. Needless to say, I will be taking screenshots of every page this year... and /hoping/ that they again make the same mistake so I can catch them at it. Then I'll get /my/ revenge...

  112. California is keeping up... by keith_nt4 · · Score: 1
    I have a one day 1099 job coming up as well as some web sites I can make a little money on I'm trying to start on so I thought I would like this up for California.

    Some how I found a site, not quite what I was looking for, that mentions submitting filings on IBM 3480 or 3490 tape cartridge. Perfect!

    I think I'd like to do this just to see the look on the face of the state employee that has to take such a cartridge...

    Let it never be said California is some how behind the times technologically!

    Ok Perhaps I'm missing something obvious...

    --
    "UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity." -Dennis Ritchie
  113. been there done that by nilbog · · Score: 1

    I've been on unemployment. You supposed to report the amount that you earn from any other work during the time you are being paid. Basically the state says "okay we figure you need X to survive per month" and then gives you X and subtracts any other money you've made during that time.

    It's really not that difficult. The key is to fill out the paperwork and follow the instructions. If you get actual people involved in that process you're bound to screw it up.

    If you really want to, pay your hosting bill with the money you made from adsense, and then you have no income to report. ;)

    --
    or else!
  114. Only for wise latina women... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Supreme Court says it is okay to seek the advise of wise Latina women over white men, so I am not sure how that is sexist or racist. ;-)

  115. Unemployment screws small business by witherstaff · · Score: 1

    Another way Unemployment screws business owners. I agree that there should be some method to help a person between jobs. But unemployment as it exists is so wrong it should be scrapped and started fresh. Everytime an employee draws it hits the company. I agree with this if it's a fire, if it's a voluntary quit we're paying for someone not wanting to work. Things I have personally seen from the business employer side in the last few years :

    • Employee doesn't show up one morning, can't be reached, doesn't even tell the live in girlfriend he apparently quit - he still 'goes to work' every morning. After girlfriend stops in the office a week later she discovers he must have quit. A year later he files to draw unemployment. We notify them there is a job waiting for him. Told that since he has moved to another state he couldn't work, he still receives unemployment.
    • Employee quits a full time, year around job, and goes to work for a seasonal job. End of the season comes and he files and receives unemployment.

    People wonder why jobs are outsourced? I hire a contract overseas and I don't have to worry about staffing issues or ex employees costing the company when they quit and don't want to work. Or why small businesses are dying. Oftentimes the small business owner stops paying themselves first to keep things going. Once things get really slow they're really out of luck.

  116. Shows the need for a "basic income" by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    Louis Kelso's idea of a basic income removes the need for many job protections. A basic income almost passed under Richard Nixon, promoted by Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income
    http://www.usbig.net/whatisbig.html
    http://www.basicincome.org/bien/aboutbasicincome.html
    http://www.basicincome.com/
    http://www.michaeljournal.org/lesson1.htm
    http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_O._Kelso
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Patrick_Moynihan

    One is being put in place in Brazil:
    http://www.accuracy.org/newsrelease.php?articleId=974
    """
    A senator from Brazil, Suplicy was the sponsor of the "Citizen's Basic Income" legislation that was signed into law last year. The law is grounded in the concept that an unconditional and guaranteed minimum income is the simplest and most effective step toward the eradication of poverty. It will be implemented gradually in Brazil beginning this year."
        He said today: "All people -- regardless of their ethnicity, gender, whatever -- should be able to share in the wealth of the nation. This should be done in a way that is just and provides for dignity and real freedom. Ensuring a guaranteed unconditional income does several things: It ends bureaucracy of reporting and checking on people. It eliminates the stigma attached to getting resources from the government. It does not penalize someone for earning money from a job. And it removes uncertainty."
    """

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  117. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by kz45 · · Score: 1

    "Government bureaucracies aren't the only kind. You haven't lived until you've been raped by a corporate bureaucracy."

    The difference is that you always have another choice with a corporate bureaucracy. When the government is in control you not only have no other choice, but you can go to jail if you don't comply.

  118. Why work when you will lose money? by RsJtSu · · Score: 1

    I had this happen to a friend of mine last year. They lost their modest paying job and was unemployed for about 6 months. They were offered a part-time job that would pay less than the benefits, but at least it would get them out of the house and working again and hopefully networking with people to find a new full time job. However, after they spoke with the unemployment office, they were informed that even though they would be making very little money, they would receive next to nothing in unemployment benefits. Just to give you an idea of how crappy this system is, they were getting a little over $250 a week on unemployment, with this part time job they would have been making around $150 a week plus paying taxes, gas, lunch, etc and unemployment would stop. Where is the incentive to find a job?

  119. Yes they are by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    Do you honestly think an HMO with a profit motive to deny you coverage is any better? I'll take laziness and incompetence over laziness, incompetence and greed any day.

    Yes they are better. The most lazy/incompetent people from the "greed" side WILL be let go eventually. The ones in government, never. The other side of greed is that if people are costing you money you want to let them go.

    Witness the tax cheats we have writing out very tax codes today.

    I'll take market forces eventually having effect over endlessly ballooning bureaucrats - any day.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Yes they are by afidel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but what you are missing is the people who are costing the HMO the most money are YOU, the customer. They will let you go the moment you need their services or the moment they can deny you coverage for your life threatening condition. Any fallacy about the market correcting the problem or unscrupulous companies going out of business flies in the couple hundred year reality of free market economies. You can argue that in a perfect free market with no barriers to entry and no government regulation that that equilibrium would be reached but that's a pipe dream. Economists are worthless (witness the fact that one of this years winner for the Nobel in economics was the founding father of the movement that led to California's energy deregulation), I'll go with the cold hard fact that we have the most expensive healthcare in the world with some of the poorest results and that all the countries that beat us on that simple metric have socialized medicine.

      Also witness the fact that Medicare has an overhead of low single digits vs the healthcare industry which is approaching 25% between overhead and profits.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    2. Re:Yes they are by tekrat · · Score: 1

      No, they are NOT better. Not only do they not have incentive to give a shit about you, but once they take your money out of your paycheck, there's NO LAW that they actually have to PROVIDE ANYTHING. They are profit-driven and greedy. They choose, where, when, if, and what price they want to pay regardless of the bill, and the rest is up to you.

      I had surgery over a year ago. I am still fighting with the insurance company to pay their portion of the bills, meantime, the bills have gone into collection and guess who's credit history is being affected, and I'll give you a hint -- it's not the insurance company's.

      So, I go co-sign a school loan for my nephew, and guess what, DECLINED.

      So, just so you've got this straight, my nephew is about to be thrown out of college because the insurance company didn't cover the portion of the bill they were supposed to, and as a result, my credit is toast.

      Personally, I'll take SOCIALIZED medicine any day of the week! Because what we have right now is a steaming pile of crap that screws you no matter what. We are living in the United States of Bubba, because no matter what, whether you drop your soap or not, you get %$%#@!! up the ass.

      So what exactly would the "free market" do for ME?
      I mean, other than take all my money and then let me die as quickly as possible?

      --
      If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    3. Re:Yes they are by phlinn · · Score: 0, Troll

      Please add the cost of running the IRS to Medicare's overhead, add fraud to both sides of the ledger, and then see who comes out ahead. Also, I assume you mean the health insurance industry, since that actually has a comparable function to medicare. A large portion of the overhead goes to fraud prevention, which Medicare does very little of and consequently wastes about 29 percent on fraudulent claims. I can't find a source with fraud as a percentage of payouts for private insurance for comparison, so I can't rule out the possibility that private insurance has greater losses to fraud and fraud prevention, but the point stands that the overhead numbers usually given are misleading.

      --
      "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
  120. Welcome to New York by electrosoccertux · · Score: 1

    Welcome to New York.

  121. Re:So the big question is: by Lunzo · · Score: 1

    Last I checked (Old) York is still in England.

  122. Unemployment...Welfare.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps the solution is to just remove unemployment completely. In my pretty large experience, the system is gamed by savvy leeches, and employers alike. Honest workers, and honest employers don't really get much use out of it. Potentially not eating is a good incentive to quit gaming the system, and just get a job, ANY job. The use of government programs to prop up the poor, at the expense of the middle class was not in the original intent or design of our country. The Great Depression brought much of these entitlements, and the subsequent recovery was supposed to mark the end of them. Our government doesn't seem to be able to truly end any program past a certain size.

    Perhaps if the government didn't give so many breaks to the ultra-rich, and the professionally poor, we could all be middle classed or above. In such a scenario, human empathy would help those who -truly- were known to be in a bad way through something other than laziness. I am certain that system could also be gamed, but only as far as our own generosity and kindness allowed.

    I often wonder if many people are assholes specifically because we all pretty much know that you can only fall so far in this country, before some government program picks you up. Perhaps we know this and therefore don't give a shit about anyone else, because we assume they are just gaming the system.

    Think about it: What is your immediate thought when you hear about someone seeing an attorney after an auto accident? Is it " Damn, they must be having a tough time with the other guys/their own insurance" or is it "I wonder how much that fake neck pain is gonna get them. Probably a year's salary...."

  123. 2nd Amendment is not vague in original form. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You quoted the delapidated version, you know, the one that legislatures secretly converted the main clause leading to a "semi-colon/;" into that of another mix of thought using a "comma/," as it was supposed to read in the Platsburg Military manual and other offices as

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State; the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

    Of course this is a problem of vagueness by asshats like you that screw around on Slashdot all day like a talking head and living in a city flipping burgers and hunting in videogames while a man like me lives in the country making mennonitish furniture and cleaning his cannons and circulating amunition every 4 months. Go figure.

    1. Re:2nd Amendment is not vague in original form. by AnotherUsername · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? I was merely showing the two opposing viewpoints. I wasn't expressing personal opinion. Obviously, if there is a huge national debate about the issue, there are people who can see different sides of the coin. Hence the word confusion. Perhaps it was the incorrect word to use.

      As far as your preconceived notions about me, I do not hang around Slashdot all day, I live in the country, and I've gone hunting far more times than you probably have(though I cannot prove it, as I do not know how often you go hunting, and you don't know how often I go hunting, and you are posting as an AC, so we will never know who goes more). No, I do not make Mennonite furniture(and since you called them mennonitish, I'm pretty sure you don't either). Cleaning your cannons? Give me a break. Calling your weapons cannons just makes you sound like a tool.

      Next time you want to make claims about yourself(and accusations about others), don't post as anonymous. Be proud of who you are. Don't post as AC.

      --
      I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.
  124. It happens in other countries as well :-( by Terje+Mathisen · · Score: 1

    An unemployed lady here in Norway was in the news recently because she lost most of her benefits:

    It turned out that she had been elected to a (non-paying of course!) position on the local town council, a task which she did to the best of her ability.

    (Here's a link, in Norwegian:
    Lost benefits)

    The problem was that each (evening) meeting of the council generated a few NOKs in compensation, supposedly to handle stuff like transportation costs.

    So what happened was that she still had to declare that as income, whereupon she passed a (low) limit which caused her to lose a major part of her benefits.

    To avoid this particular problem she did try to say no to those meeting expense monies, but that was of course impossible:

    "You have been elected to the council so you are legally obligated to turn up for every meeting, and when you do you _must_ receive compensation. When the sum passes the limit, we then have to take away your benefits."

    Terje

    --
    "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
  125. I thought Australia was bad by conufsed · · Score: 1

    I've been unemployed before, but wasn't this bad. You get a form once per fortnight to fill, where have you applied for work, and related questions, as well as how much did you earn? If you've been unemployed for a while you build up kind of credit system where you may not get your benefits reduced at all. The other good part is you keep getting the forms for about 2 months of earning 'too much' before your officially cut off. So if you get a temp job picking fruit or whatever, as long as your income drops back off before the forms finish, everything keeps going without any hassle. Don't get me started of the rest of Centrelink though!

  126. Law Hackers by TheLink · · Score: 1

    They're just finding exploits in the law, or nifty tricks and techniques.

    Don't slashdotters love hackers?

    --
  127. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by jimicus · · Score: 1

    There's a similar problem in the UK with our tax inspectors not understanding tax law properly - and we also have a pretty complicated system.

    Though TBH the problem isn't the tax inspectors - it's that the government decided a few years ago it was cheaper to operate the tax office as a call centre manned by potplants whose only qualification is "Can you speak English (you're allowed three tries to get the answer right)?".

    Historically, you would call your local tax office and the phone would be answered by someone who had been on all the training courses and knew what they were talking about - today your call is answered by some spotty teenager who's going off a single sheet of paper headed "Tax law for dummies!" where the law itself is a heck of a lot more complicated and to get to speak to someone who actually understands the regulations and will apply them properly is an exercise in itself.

  128. Mental Note by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    Next time I'm unemployed, don't mention that I found 2 cents on the sidewalk.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  129. Missing URI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't help wondering why it is that /. didn't give the URI for her blog in their story.

  130. TFA Light on Details by BradleyAndersen · · Score: 1

    Why are we all complaining? I did RTFA (shame on me!), and found absolutely zero evidence or sources to back up the author's claims.

    1. Re:TFA Light on Details by TRRosen · · Score: 1

      we don't need any, this is SOP for unemployment. many of us have had similar experiences. Its just the way the law is written.

  131. fun unemployment facts by TRRosen · · Score: 1

    You only have to work two days to qualify for unemployment.
    You can work full time for over a year and not qualify.
    You can be disqualified for making over $4500 in three months. Thats 8.65/hr 40 hr/week
    These are all true facts.

  132. Computers and laws differ by phorm · · Score: 1

    I am quite happy to have a world with fewer programmers. The profession itself is evidence that computers are too complex.

    Your parallel is amusing, but there is no outside force that necessarily requires you to use a computer (or need a tech). On the other hand, you may be imprisoned wrongly, be sued unjustly, or many other such things that require a lawyer.

    Now granted, computer use is definitely becoming more prevalent in society, but the potential monetary and/or life-damaging consequences of not knowing how to use one pale in comparison to law.

    Yes again, you could get screwed if you decide to do banking/gambling/etc online and don't take care of your PC, but none of those are a requirement at the moment. The closest thing I could think of would be having a computer hijacked and used for downloading illegal pr0n or some other such thing, but then we're back to the realm of law, and lawyers...

  133. Canadian system by phorm · · Score: 1

    I don't know the specifics, but last time I checked the Canadian system did make allowances for getting a little side-income while on EI. Of course, it just ends up deducting from what you get in benefits. So you don't get screwed quite as badly (having benefits cut off entirely), but there's not much incentive to "do a little, get a little" in side work while trying to find a better job, best to just keep on that hunt for a real job.

    One thing I seem to remember though is if you find another job that's significantly less pay than your last, you can get some supplemental income to even the difference...

  134. This is why... by GWBasic · · Score: 1

    This is why I keep personal and hobby web sites 100% non-commercial.

  135. Re:State beauracrats are usually idiots.. by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

    Maybe it was business income?

    --
    They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  136. It's the government, why is anyone surprised? by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

    In MA, state income taxes must be filed with the Husbands SSN first on the taxes. My wife filed them once with her's first. Today, after 18 months and 3 corrective action forms, a dozen phone calls, 2 copies of my tax returns, 2 copies of the refund check they sent us, and a copy of the form they sent us to hit us for taxes on the refund - they sent me a letter saying that they will be happy to settle the unpaid back taxes for $1500.

    I used to live in NY. Their unemployment at the time was based on a requirement that you not work for 5 days of a 7 day week. If you worked 3 days, you were not eligible for unemployment. They didn't ask how much money did you make, just did you make any. So getting $20 for shoveling the neighbors driveway was a full days work as far as their system is concerned. So I can certainly see them closing down someone who was making as little as $1 a day.

    Fortunately, I now live & work in MA. They don't care how much you work, just how much you got paid. That works well when you're doing day work cheaply, you get to make 1/3 of your unemployment check without loosing any from the check. After that it's 1:1 loss from the check.

    The bad part is that if your check goes to $0, they close your claim & make you reopen it - which takes 10-14 days. That doesn't work well when you're temping & working full time every 2-3 weeks. You spend 2-3 hours trying to reopen your claim each time.

  137. Re:A friend of mine in NYC was in a similar situat by tinkerghost · · Score: 1

    I've been out of work for 11 months now. I'm dreading that form come tax time.

    And yes, I've been in the same situation - even a 40hr junk job means I loose money at the end of the week. Why on earth would I spend 40hrs a week hating what I was doing when I could spend 2-3 hours a day looking for a job (takes that long to go through my temp agencies and the 5 or 6 websites I search) and make more?

  138. Unfortunately... by Benfea · · Score: 1

    ...unfortunately, there are cases where lawyers do deliberately make legal language obfuscating. For instance a Harvard law professor who specializes in contracts could not make heads or tails of the contracts that credit card companies expect non-lawyers to sign. It is one thing to make a contract that the average joe off the streets can't understand, but you cannot make a contract that a Harvard law professor who teaches contracts cannot understand unless you are deliberately writing the contract so as to make it hard to understand.

    Of course laws and contracts are not the same thing, but if it's happening in one, is it too much to assume that it might also be happening in the other?