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Apple Voiding Smokers' Warranties?
Mr2001 writes "Consumerist reports that Apple is refusing to work on computers that have been used in smoking households. 'The Apple store called and informed me that due to the computer having been used in a house where there was smoking, [the warranty has been voided] and they refuse to work on the machine "due to health risks of second hand smoke,"' wrote one customer. Another said, 'When I asked for an explanation, she said [the owner of the iMac is] a smoker and it's contaminated with cigarette smoke, which they consider a bio-hazard! I checked my Applecare warranty and it says nothing about not honoring warranties if the owner is a smoker.' Apple claims that honoring the warranty would be an OSHA violation. (Remember when they claimed enabling 802.11n for free would be a Sarbanes-Oxley violation?)"
Does putting it in the dishwasher void the warranty?
Can this actually be legal? Smoking is ( currently at least ) legal, so how can they penalize a smoker?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
They have an obligation to the customer under the terms of the warranty. They also have an obligation to their employees. They need to honor both, not pick and choose. If they really believe that opening the computer represents a health threat then they need to issue protective clothing and breathing apparatus to their employees. Simple as that. OSHA does not prohibit working with dangerous materials (manufacturing and maintaining computers DOES involve doing so), it just requires proper safety procedures be observed when doing so. The possibility of working with computers that have been exposed to cigarette smoke was not unknown or plausibly considered to be remote at the time when these warranties were issued.
and I get to smoke in my own house, while browsing the Internet (for porn)
That said, I can always tell when a computer I'm working on has a smoker for an owner. The smoke leaves a yellowish to brownish residue. Dust sticks to it. In the worst case I can recall seeing, cooling slots were blocked by congealed fuzzy crap.
It's nasty, and I can see it contributing to component failure in bad cases.
Why did you choose it if you you did not like it?
Gloves and a face mask.
Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
Well if your Iphone was used as a dildo, it might be considered hazardous bio waste.
Hey, there are some weird fetishes and the cultish Mac adherents out there scare me anyway.
It's not hard to see some lonely outcast out there peggin his bunghole cause the Iphone rubs his prostate "just right"
It's a strange damn world and nothing Apple does ever surprises me anymore.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
its because second-hand smoke is bad for the Apple workers
But there isn't any "second-hand smoke" actually in the computer. There's the residue that you get from smoke, but that's not actually smoke. It's not particularly harmful unless you breath in a big cloud of it, but that's true of any kind of dust. If you're poking about inside dusty equipment, you should be wearing appropriate PPE anyway.
Look at this and tell me that you wouldn't run screaming if someone asked you to repair that. Also, the way smoke is clogging up that fan, I'm thinking that smoking around a computer is a decent reason to void your warranty. Like using your phone in the rain. The harm came to the unit through your own negligence...
As a smoker I find it hard to deny Apple's case here. Tobacco smoke is not a good thing for electronics. Neither would be lots of candle smoke, grease smoke, auto exhaust and many other environmental contaminates that could leave a residue on the hardware.
For the smokers out there: is it really that hard to take a break and go outside? I've always felt that was the best part... take a break, go out, have a smoke and consider what ever you're doing - then go back and get it done.
Of course these are not likely people using their computers for productive things... probably ex-AOLers chatting up people while drinking and smoking. In which case - ??? WTF just get a life already.
Oh and it's gross to smoke cigs in your house. Same as it would be gross to smoke a turkey inside or any number of things that leave residue everywhere.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
Oh man up. I've repaired worse. That kind of damage can happen to any computer near the front door of your house.
This is my sig.
Remember when they claimed enabling 802.11n for free would be a Sarbanes-Oxley violation?
Why yes, I do. I also remember that it's a perfectly legitimate (though perhaps conservative) claim as well. And I also remember all the people mocking Apple who clearly had no idea at all how revenue must be accounted for in publicly-held companies. Apparently some of you ignoramuses just do not want to let go...
So do car drivers....should we ban them also??? After all, driving a car is a privilege, not a right.
I was in the hospital not too long ago, cost $70K to fix a broken foot because a car hit my motorcycle.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
After all, 90% of U.S. currency has traces of cocaine on it. I'm pretty sure the Apple store is dealing.
...so it's third-hand smoke?
Who the hell smokes indoors? That's fucked up.
Cory Doctorow talking about cloud computing makes as much sense as George W Bush talking about electrical engineering.
I used to work as a computer technician to pay my tuition.
Computers that had either failed or seized up due to nicotine/tar build up were impossible to clean, and nearly impossible to repair. The nasty build-up got literally everywhere, clogging heatsinks, coating voltage regulators, caps, expansion slots, and other devices that depend on air convection to stay cool. The only way to get these machines running stably again was usually massive part replacement.
If smoking doesn't constitute improper operation, it should. For all the people bitching out there, smoking has been demonstrated to cause premature failure to humans, particularly second-hand smoke which contains a Noah's Ark of nasty bacteria and pathogens. WHy is it such a surprise that it also kills sensitive electronic equipment?
What a bunch of bs .... post the medical findings and I'll listen.
.. working in a bar 8 hours a day that is filled with smoke is. Living in a house with parents that smoke is. But NOT walking through a cloud of smoke for 5 seconds, or working on a computer.
.. they can STFU.
I have not seen ANY studies that suggest that OCCASIONAL exposure to second hand smoke is a hazard. Yep
Find one that suggests how often somebody has to walk through a cloud of smoke or work on a computer and I'll accept this. Until then
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Having worked on many Macs that were owned by smokers, I'll bet that this particular one was clogged to hell with ash and nicotine stains. Seriously. I've had some iMacs from smokers that smelled nasty, but were still relatively clean inside. Then I've seen iMacs that were utterly DISGUSTING on the inside. Every inch clogged with ash, the whole thing stained...ugh. We had to take it out back with an air compressor. No warranty on that one. I specifically asked Apple's techie tech support about that one (SPS) and asked if EXCESSIVE buildup of cigarette residue was cause for a warranty violation. They said yes and that if that thing had come into a repair depot, they'd have refused to work on it.
Bottom line: I seriously doubt this thing just smelled a bit like cigarettes. It was probably revolting, yellowed, and filled with ash.
They've also refused service on devices where their litmus indicator shows signs of turning pink (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=9214797, http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/14/smart.phones.buggy/index.html, http://techgeist.net/2009/09/apple-iphone-abuse-detection-sensors-abusing-2/). It sounds like they're still looking for more excuses not to honor their "warranty."
I won't be buying any more Apple products.
For once I am pleased with Apple's quirky business policies.
In addition to being a biohazard, enough smoking over time by many people seems to actually deposit a greassy residue on the inside of the computer parts, like the heat sinks, integrated circuits, fan blades. I used to be the IT administrator for an office of a dozen people, back when it was somehow allowed to smoke indoors in the office while you work. And the style was for everyone to smoke. As a non smoker I was a minority, and had to put up with working in that mess.
But for the computer parts, after about six months the parts looked as though someone had sprayed them with PAM cooking oil, and then dusted with ashes. All chunder stuck on fuzzy layer of dust bunnies, and "that" smell of 1000 cigarettes. We went through a lot of computers because of the lack of ability for the parts to cool themselves with the ambient air circulation inside the cases.
So my fendangled point was, it is not fair for Apple, or any computer company to have to honor warranty claims for computers that were subjected to the abuse of a smoker, as the hardware was subjected to environmental conditions that was not in any of the designed intended use. For example, if I put my computer through a dish washer, they would have the equal right to not honor my warranty claim, as I 'intentionally damaged' it in much the same way. I would like to see other companies start doing this too.. Buy a car? Did you smoke in it ? Oh, now it has no resale value, sorry.
You just don't want to see what happens to the computer near the back door.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Smokers die quicker than non-smokers, saving us money that would be spent on long term care.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The only thing that had changed in my life compared to the past was the smoke absorbed in the walls and furniture.
Really? That's the only thing that changed? Did the thought that there might be any number of other invisible toxins in that apartment ever enter your mind or did you just stop at the first one you could pull out of your ass? You also don't think it could be a physical reaction to the stress of moving and having to adjust to an entirely new environment either? It couldn't be anything else? You've managed to discount every other possibility and the most plausible one is "smoking residue"?
I would buy that if they had said, "The computer was destroyed by accumulated dust and dirt. User's fault." But they didn't. They blamed some nebulous reasoning about the computer causing lung cancer in the repairman. In other words, brown-and-smelly bull.
(1) When did Microsoft buy-out Apple? They must have taken-down the "Don't be evil" mission statements.
(2) Is there any proof that SMELL can cause lung problems? I thought Penn&Teller debunked that nonsense several years ago.
Trivia -
- If you buy anything that smells like smoke, and the seller did not reveal it, you can get a refund through Paypal or Amazon. I just did that with a suit that was claimed to be "new" and it did still have tags, but it absolutely stank of smoke. So I get a refund, no questions asked (except for some hatemail from a very angry housewife).
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
The flu (and pneumonia) is actually the 8th leading cause of death in the US. The first two leading causes of death are heart disease and cancer, with more than 10x the number of deaths than the flu. Both of these can be caused by smoking.
Heart disease: 631,636
Cancer: 559,888
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 137,119
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 124,583
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 121,599
Diabetes: 72,449
Alzheimer's disease: 72,432
Influenza and Pneumonia: 56,326
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 45,344
Septicemia: 34,234
From the CDC
Given the kind of nasty tar buildup that you can see in a smokers house or car, this sort of concern should not be all that surprising really.
You really can't blame an underpaid geek for not wanting to get near that stuff.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
I can understand employees not wanting to touch a yellow or brown mac. I hate working on smokers computers, tar makes a great insulator and does damage components and yet somehow it is your fault that the computer does not work. Neither of the two examples given indicate the amount of tar buildup on the computer, generally if it just smells like a smokers computer, there is no problem, it gets repaired. The only time a computer gets labeled a biohazard is if there is a significant amount of residue on the computer. The first post does sound like tar related damage, which could be considered user abuse(voids warranty).
Not to be picky, by Obesity is now the #1 leading cause of death (health problems related to) in the US.
And 3/4 of the country is now Obese.
So ... as long as you're skinny and smoke, chances are the fat ones are going to die first.
(1) When did Microsoft buy-out Apple? They must have taken-down the "Don't be evil" mission statements.
You seem to be confusing Apple and Google.
(2) Is there any proof that SMELL can cause lung problems?
No one said smell can cause lung problems anymore than people claim sight can cause your chest cavity to be punctured because you can see a guy aiming a gun at you. Smell is a sense which can be used to detect things that are potentially damaging, like carcinogens.
How the fuck does a computer get filled with ash? Were they using it as an ashtray? Working for a living sometimes presents situations that you would prefer to not have to deal with, but does not relieve you of your duties. Quit being a Nancy and do your job.
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
Slashdot ate my [shudder] tag.
Dealing with anything which a smoker has owned (or used) is just completely disgusting. House, covered in yellow nicotine stains, thin film of brown smoke residue on fucking *everything*. I have a photo somewhere of a lightbulb which has a yellow/brown vapour deposition coating on one side, the other being less exposed. Then there's the smell on their clothes, in their cars, the yellowed teeth, yellowed fingers. I'd put money on it that the macbook in question was just as disgusting inside.
Deleted
I've seen more computers clogged with cat hair than I've seen clogged with cigarette ash.
I've worked on computers from time to time and the worst are those from people who burn candles or that seem to have way too much perfume in their home. The candles leave residue just like smoking. Oh and don't forget the fur-balls when the computer sits on the floor with a cat in the house.
I suppose Apple will void the warranties on those folks too?
Mine complains about my brownish-yellow stained computer cables every time I have my servers in for service (yes, I smoke in the server room, sue me). But mostly because they care about my health and don't want to lose a good customer to the coughing death.
Oh, maybe my service fee is higher than what you pay at Apple. But it includes face masks to protect their techs, it seems. I'm fairly sure you get them cheaply from a lot of governments that bought tons of masks during the last flu craze but nobody wanted to wear them in public because they make you look like a paranoid loonie.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The issue is not whether smoking is legal or illegal; there are plenty of legal things you can do a computer that would void the warranty. If they're going to make this argument, they simply need to support the claim that the damage to the computer goes beyond normal wear and tear.
For example, computers in chemical labs often fail because small amounts of airborne chemicals attack the PC boards and chassis. I've worked on boxes that look like they'd been strapped to the bottom of a battleship for a few years.
Having seen the office accommodations of some chain smokers, I can't say I blame Apple. I've seen environments where every surface is coated with brown, sticky residue and a multi-millimeter thick layer of dust and ash.
I find cigarette smoking to be pretty repulsive myself, though I do enjoy a good cigar from time to time. I think we've gone too war with the war on smoking though. There are actually municipalities now that are considering banning smoking outdoors. WTF is wrong with that picture?
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Why did you choose it if you you did not like it?
House, barn, stable and several hectares of land for (relatively) peanuts.
We have these things, called detergents, also water which can be used to "clean" things. I know that's a novel concept for many smokers. Then we have this other stuff called "paint" which can be put on top of pre-existing walls with a "brush" or "roller" to cover what cannot be "cleaned".
Deleted
I fix computers for a living, and I will vouch for the pain that is working on a "three pack a day" computer. It's not terribly bad as long as they keep a clean house, but when there's a lot of dust in the machine, AND they're a very heavy smoker, the entire inside of the computer is filled with a matte of dustbunny solidified by tar. It's a dark mustard looking soft foam and reeks to high heaven, and when you touch it, it wipes off on your hands like ash AND sends a fine dark yellow cloud up into the air. Takes 5 minutes of hand scrubbing to get most of it off after you're done working on it.
I don't think I'd call it a "biohazard", as there's not a lot of chance of my inhaling any nicotine, but it's certainly unpleasant to work on. It also tints the entire machine a dingy yellow, especially the white plastics and the front of LCD panels. It also kills optical drives. (clouds the laser lens) Occasionally we get in a machine that looks ok, but reeks of tar when you pick it up. When we open it up, it's obviously a heavy smoker's computer, that they took the time to clean the outside case before bringing it in. "surprise!"
Most computers have active air cooling, and function like air filters. If you're filling the air with nasty, you should expect a lot of it to collect inside your computer, and nobody likes dealing with that.
Twice we've had to refuse warranty repair for a killed optical drive, and once a smoker wanted us to replace (under warranty) an LCD panel that had "become discolored". No, really? Like the WALLS and CURTAINS in your house? ick ick ick.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
In some parts of the country you don't get much of a choice. It's very hard around here to get an affordable rental and buying something is usually not affordable. Trust me if the other option is being homeless, they may as well hold a gun to a loved one, because you'll pay the money whether you want to or not. People around here that make minimum wage can pretty much count on rent taking up half or more of their paycheck, niceties like chemical free living aren't necessarily realistic.
Umm, genius, there are these things in laptops called fans... If you force air out of one orifice, physics dictate that you must have an intake, or else you have a perfect vacuum that would eventually crush the entire laptop.
So, given we can't violate physics, small particles of ash will eventually get sucked in where they get stuck.
Please tell me this a joke right? Smoking is a personal choice and should be left as that. You wanting to impose HARSH penalties on smokers is nothing more then you wanting to dictate the actions of another person. You even want to impose your will in my private home? What the hell man. What would give you, or anyone else, the right to tell me what I can do in my own home? I choose to smoke cigars and pipes and I will continue to do so even if illegal. They can come and take them when they come for my guns.
Ammonia based cleaners (particularly Formula 409) are extremely effective at removing cigarette tar buildup. At my previous tech job we actually had a wash station similar to a automotive parts washer that we built because of the handful of chain-smokers we provided service to. Our warranty also explicitly excluded fans damaged by tar buildup and the resulting heat damage. We structured our fees in such a way that it encouraged our addict customers to bring in their computers regularly for cleaning instead of having to buy a new motherboard/processor/power supply every 18 months.
Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
1200 in the US die every day from smoking related illnesses 135 of these are from passive smoke 115 fatal car accidents happen every day in the US (no mention of how many die in each)
People die from one or the other, but how much is a life worth?
Passive smoke and roadkill isn't that different really. Where the real hipocracy is, is when life-time smokers expect expensive treatment to keep them alive for another 5 years.
As a rake (and smoker) myself, i am already aware of the years (of boring life) I won't get, I need no treatment, i may live 5-10 years shorter, but i enjoyed every single day of what i had. As for the 135 passive smoke deaths, it could be avoided with considerate smokers, just as considerate drivers rarely kill anyone.
Liberty isn't just about money, guns and cars, it's just as much about what kind of life you wanna lead urself.
If I was as pragmatic and objective as I claim to be, would I be commenting?
Killz white primer paint works wonders on smoke impregnated walls. Not a shill... just used it on the walls in my house. Sometimes the house is worth it, even if there's smoker's residue. Like someone else said, clean it first, then Killz the rest. :)
No
They need to grow some balls. An underpaid janitor gets to clean rotten piss off the bathroom floor everyday.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Have you ever opened up a computer that a really heavy smoker has been sitting in front of for years? It's disgusting. Everything has a coating of tar on it, it stinks even before you power it up, and when you try to work on it, it's all gummy.
I'm just amazed that more hard drives and more fans don't fail because of smokers.
It's pretty bad when you wipe the screen and the paper towel turns ORANGE!
Is Apple being dumb? Now that smokers are the minority, I don't think so. Let them pay for supplemental coverage, same as health insurance. Besides, if you want to quit smoking, there's an app for that
But the reefer madness and junk science used by the tobacco prohibitionists has convinced people of the lies that second hand smoke is worse than plutonium. And lawyers and juries and OSHA will enforce these lies that will have employees opening computers in biohazard suits while they will sit quietly on a bench while a diesel bus idles next to them.
Apple users don't take the bus, you insensitive clod.
"All these years believing you're the signified monkey, only to find out you're just a big hunk of nobody cares."
To answer your question: nothing
Because the smoke lingers, and there are other people in the same place... Lots of city streets are narrow, and often devoid of wind meaning that the stench of smoking remains there for quite some time as other people walk by.
If someone releases anal gases in a public place it's considered rude because it smells bad, tobacco smoke smells bad but is also harmful yet that's considered ok?
If i walk down the street burning some arbitrary chemicals i'm likely to get arrested, unless those same chemicals are in the form of a tobacco product.
Smokers are extremely inconsiderate of those around them, they often force them to breathe their toxic fumes and are completely oblivious to the smell (that is, they are so used to it they no longer notice it)... I have been to many places where indoor smoking bans were introduced, and the vast majority of smokers casually discard the filter ends once they've finished smoking, and there are now thousands of places where big piles of them have accumulated in the street. I used to work with someone who would try to smoke in my car without even asking, when i kicked him out and demanded he never do that again he would smoke outside the car whenever we stopped, he would inhale his last from the cigarette, discard it on the floor, get into the car and then exhale, filling the vehicle with the stench.. most disgusting.
Smoking is also a fire hazard, you don't want people walking around with sources of ignition, many smokers discard the remains while still alight, if these remains come into contact with other trash on the street or in a trashcan there is a strong possibility they will ignite it. Insurance against fire is usually cheaper when there is no smoking permitted in the building.
If anything, banning smoking indoors has been detrimental, previously as a non smoker you knew where people would be smoking and could easily avoid such places, few people smoked on the streets and the filters were usually left in ashtrays inside of the smoking establishments. Now you can't walk down a busy street without facing someone's second hand smoke, there will be smokers walking around, groups mass smoking in doorways and under any form of shelter when it rains.
If you want nicotine, there are many of other ways you could acquire it which wouldn't harm those around you, such methods are also going to be far more efficient because most of it won't be floating away from you.
Yes, hear you. Everytime I go to the States my skin gets all sticky from second hand fat.
We should have law against fat people, They should pay more taxes , because the occupy more volume, add more wear to the roads when driving, put more shit througth the sewers, have bigger impact on the environement, etc...
http://store.ovi.com/content/744FD2C886D77218E040050A87327F92?clickSource=search
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But lung cancer isn't caused by smell. It's caused by particulates (smoke) and the repairman is not smoking or breathing smoke.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
If you used the machine for a litterbox, or used it outdoors in the rain and the damp weather - both of which may lead to environmentally caused points of failure - I think that is abusing the warranty.
Please explain which of those is equivalent to smoking while using the computer, and how. The computer is not a litterbox, so there's no reason why it should be covered under warranty if used as such. In addition, the computer's specifications include the allowable humidity range in most cases; if you don't exceed it, there is no grounds for denying you warranty coverage on that basis. Computers do not include specifications for dust, smoke, &c, so there is no grounds for denying warranty coverage on that basis.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Wow, way to exagerate beyond belief. You're also one of those people that coughs when someone outside, 30 feet away, downwind is smoking too, aren't you?
I don't smoke and I still hate this sort of ridiculous shit.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
I've used it too, and it's great, but it's called Kilz, not Killz. One is a brand name, the other is leet speak.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Its a reason to exercise the 'replace' option in the 'repair or replace at our discretion' portion of your warranty agreement.
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
It's one of those cumulative cases though, I would assume (whether they are being excessively pernickety or not), that while working on 1 computer coved in tar residue is not so bad, working on 500 might be. Just like visiting a smoke-filled bar just once might not be, but working there every day is...
I'm sure that, especially in more recent times, the service people at Apple don't have to service more than 1 tar-covered machine per day, but heading this off at the pass is just Apple's way of protecting their employees - it should be stated in the warranty though, or I'm not certain that they can enforce it.
Pay for someone else (on their own dime) who will service it instead or something if they don;t want their own employees to have to handle it.
They are probably concerned about this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/03/health/research/03smoke.html Even so, this does not relieve them of their warranty obligations. If they cannot safely handle the item, then they probably have to simply replace it.
Whenever you see used amateur radios for sale, "non smoker" is a selling point. I was once given a CB from a guy who was a 3 pack a dayer. His car was a bomb, and the radio took an hour to attempt to clean. It still smells slightly, over a year later in a no smoke environment. This sort of radio makes little heat and uses little power. I can only imagine the smells from a big radio (100 watts out) or a 1500 watt linear amplifier.
There's always this thing called a "filter"
There is, but you and I don't get much say in the design of a typical laptop and a significant amount of computer kit doesn't have filters on the air inlets.
Since when is there a right not to be disgusted?
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
I worked with a guy who was a programmer once. He worked at night and barricaded himself in a completely dark room and chained smoked. He sometimes left as people were arriving and thick smoke wafted out of the room when he opened the door. There were no color monitors at the time only amber if you were lucky mostly green CRT's. A few days after I joined I made the mistake of going in that room and came out hacking and coughing like I was gonna die. Nobody went in after that episode....
When he left the organization the entire room had to be gutted including new drywall and carpets. All computers and printers in the room had to be tosssed.
The outgassing from those computers is worse for your health than cigarette smoke residue, I assure you.
Ecplain to me why an unsupported argument gets a mod-up to +5, Insightful.
Either:
*normal levels of cigarette smoke do not void the warranty
OR
*Apple engaged in fraud by not making this clear before the time of sale. This is especially true for extended warranty products.
Pick one.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
its because second-hand smoke is bad for the Apple workers
But there isn't any "second-hand smoke" actually in the computer. There's the residue that you get from smoke, but that's not actually smoke. It's not particularly harmful unless you breath in a big cloud of it, but that's true of any kind of dust. If you're poking about inside dusty equipment, you should be wearing appropriate PPE anyway.
Exactly. Tobacco smoke residue is less of a bio-hazard than the keyboard of any computer, which contain all kinds of pathogens from people touching it.
-Turkey
It may be more of a danger to children, but to dismiss an environment that is coated with poison dust as harmless without further study is absurd.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-third-hand-smoke
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
Second hand smoke is certainly a health hazard.
But the computers in question aren't emitting smoke (if they were, I don't really think they're fixable), they have a gunky residue.
Computers are made of all kinds of toxic substances. Just don't lick them, and wear surgical gloves, and you should be okay.
A smell is caused by particulate matter hitting your olfactory senses.
smelling smoke = breathing some trace of smoke.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I fully support banning smoking in bars and restaurants
I'm not even sure I support those. I really enjoy going out to bars without smoking. It was absolutely disgusting previously. Had take a shower and wash my hair twice when I got home. It also irritated the hell out of my eyes and nose too.
Despite that, the Libertarian in me has a problem with a private business being told that it can't allow smoking on it's property. Nobody forced me to visit that bar. Nobody forced the employees to work there. If a bar wants to ban smoking on it's own then all the power to them -- I'd vote for them with my wallet -- I just don't see it as something to get Uncle Sam all worked up about though.
but sidewalk bans are going too far.
Well, at least we can agree on that :) When is some sanity going to break out over this issue? I can't wait for the nanny-staters to switch targets and start going after the fast food industry. McDonalds made me eat these big macs and now I'm overweight. Why'd the Government allow them to do that? Woe is me.....
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
About 15-20% of adults smoke. The number for Apple users may be somewhat lower due to the younger and more "chic" demographic.
In any case, at the time Apple was designing its warranty coverage, it knew smoking by its customer or others in the household or business was not so rare or so offbeat that it would be reasonable to exclude it, nor is it obvious to consumers that smoking is bad for the equipment.
At the time of the sale, Apple had 3 choices:
*specifically and prominently state that the warranty is void if the computer is exposed to tobacco smoke
*plan on honoring the warranty
*set the stage for a fraud lawsuit
Since they didn't due the first one, they get to pick from the next two.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
When I worked TV repair, we'd jack up the estimate on smoker's TVs to compensate for the nastiness factor. The electrical charge attracts the particles from the ambient air and the build-up in some environments can be dramatic -and fast. Failure was very often scum related, either by blocking cooling air, or providing an arc path for the High Voltage.
The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
Let me turn that around on you. Nobody forced those people to work in coal mines without proper lung protection. Nobody forced those people to work in asbestos mines without protection. We have laws to protect workers because they are generally not in a position to protect themselves. When you need money, you can't afford to refuse to work in a place that allows smoking. If you think otherwise, that probably means you have never been poor enough to understand.
Regarding the city streets, that smoke turns into dirty-looking sidewalks from the tar, cigarette butts floating up on the beach and in our streams, and other environmental harm that goes way beyond the immediate harm to people nearby. As far as I'm concerned, if people want to smoke in their own homes, that's okay. As soon as they inflict it on other people, they're crossing a line. People don't choose to be asthmatic, and they don't wear big signs that say "stay away from me if you smoke". I would argue that nobody forced the smokers to smoke around other people, but they do, and often without caring who it offends or even makes sick. And *that* is why people fight back and pass laws about smoking in public places. It's because smokers egregiously abused their rights and harmed others.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
If walking through a cloud of 2nd hand smoke isn't a hazard, why does it make me cough ? Is it a sign that I'm fit ? On the topic. I won't exactly blame Apple for this, in my personal experience a laptop coming from a smokers home is generally more dirty, particularly in the fan, where huge lumps of congested hair and dust will generally be thicker on a smokers machine nearly eliminating airflow.
So I take it that you don't live in a city then? Because in most cities I can't seem to smell the smoke from peoples' cigarettes unless they're almost rubbing up against me due to all the "healthy" pollution from cars, trucks and other combustion engine-powered vehicles.
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Say what? So if I created a device that emitted a smell so nasty it made you wretch you'd be okay with me waving it around you while you were trying to enjoy a meal, walk down the street, or sit on a park bench? Because hey after all you "assume the risk" of every moron around you doing something disgusting when you venture outside of your home right? Sounds to me like "the rest of us" is quickly becoming a minority and you don't like being one of them.
I'm all for personal freedom so long as it doesn't impinge too greatly on others. I don't blast my music, I don't let my dog poop on other people's lawns, and I try to be considerate of others. Cigarette smoke, frankly, makes me ill. If a person in the car ahead of me at a light is smoking I can often smell it and it can make me gag. When smokers come in from outside and share an elevator with me I'm forced to get off at the next floor because the stench is overpowering. I'm not alone in this, other coworkers have expressed similar issues. Sorry smokers but your habit effects others and there are finally enough of us speaking up about it to make some changes, it's not going to stop.
I used to live with smokers, my parents and grandparents all smoked. The film covered everything and every car ride was misery as I was forced to endure the smoke. I used to work in an environment where smoking was allowed in offices and I repaired the computers. I had to empty the keyboards of ashes, I had to clean the gunk off of the screens - inside and out, and I had to clean the crap from inside the boxes. The offices were often just nasty to be around, it was like a film covered everything. Like it or not smoking DOES cause damage to computers. In my experience the damage usually wasn't so bad it couldn't be fixed. No worse than dog or cat hair except that you can't use canned air to remove it. I recently inherited some clocks from my Grandfather, my Uncle smoked around them for a few years. When I wiped them down the brown gunk was disgusting. I had to clean and oil them inside to get them running again, these were mechanical clocks with little to no airflow inside of them and yet they were filthy. The evidence is pretty overwhelming really - smoking damages everything around it.
As much as I detest the effects surrounding smoking I'm not sure I support Apple's not fixing these computers. I guess I'd have to see just how bad these computers looked inside and it would have helped if Apple had made this a known policy. I CAN understand why they might want to have such a policy but before they begin instituting it they need to be a little more open about it. IF they had done that then sure, I can understand them rejecting claims like this if upon popping open a computer they found it contaminated with tar and crap...
Some interesting reading http://www.squidoo.com/cigarette-smoke-computer-damage and http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=176542 If you do some Googling on cigarette smoke damage you will find thread after thread of evidence of smoke damaging computers, guitars, stereo speakers, and on and on. Close enough to evil for you?
Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
Fill ultrasonic cleaner in glove box with deionized water / detergent solution. Fill rinse tank with deionized water. Start ventilation system for glove box. Using tongs, place unit in glove box and close door. Disassemble unit in glove box. Place each board and case component in ultrasonic cleaner for one minute, then in rinse tank, then on drying rack. Allow 10 minutes for preliminary drying. Open glove box, remove drying rack with components, and take to repair technician. Dispose of contaminated water as medium-toxicity liquid waste.
What's the problem?
Pre-cleaning is routine in maintenance of equipment used in bio and chemical labs and in medical facilities. It works for computers with flood damage, too. Almost all electronic components other than hard drives are tolerant of cleaning in this fashion. The last step in PC board manufacture is a pass through a dishwasher-like cleaning station.
Having done PC support in offices back when smoking in offices was common I can attest to the putridity of a machine that gets smoked around. I would equate it with working on a grimy car engine. It's even worse with pet owners that smoke. You take the machine outside and "hose down" the system with a spray circuit board cleaner and replace the PSU. It's messy work but you bill the customer for your time. If you think the customer may balk at the expense you talk to them, maybe show them what smoking around computers does. It wasn't that big a deal when most of the system's chips didn't need heatsinks. You could get away with cleaning just the CPU's HSF, and maybe replace the PSU if the customer was on a budget.
Of course I only worked on steel cased, pentium-era desktop machines. Modern systems and notebooks in particular would be more involved as they really depend on staying clean and cool to avoid heat related instability. I would expect a cleaning could include a surcharge for abusive and unusual treatment of the hardware. I mean, if someone brought me a machine that they had doused in maple syrup, I would probably refuse them service or just name a price that I figured was a little north of what I thought they would be willing to spend.
As for the health concerns, well I smoke anyways, but I do it outside. I'd still wear gloves, just like I almost always did.
But Apple has other concerns. I doubt a mall store tech could contain the mess with the resources they have available. They might not actually be allowed to use the cleaner I would use. Or it might attack plastic requiring full dissasembly of a notebook. I don't know, I'm out of the loop on that.
"The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
...posting anonymously.
Grow some balls and put your name to your ranting or STFU.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
...and told buyers about the limitation on the warranty before they bought the device then sure.
But it is obvious some buyers of Apple products will be smokers so if they're prepared to take their money then they should ensure they can honour the warranty that's part of the sale.
It's Apple's problem to solve any health and safety issues.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Curious. Marijuana is way less addictive and toxic than cigarettes or alcohol, and I am pretty sure that you are not allowed to smoke it at home, in most of the US at least. And last time I checked yes, penalties could be quite harsh, all the way to jail time.
Now, either you are for legalisation of hash and light drugs, OR you are for a smoking ban (at least to the level of light drugs), OR you have a serious case of doublethink.
And, just to remind you: no, you are not allowed to do as you please just because it's your home. You cannot beat your wife, raise your army, print money or shoot people, and you cannot do bunches of other things. Actually the only thing that I can think of that would be OK inside your home and illegal outside is walking around naked.
Victims of 9/11: <3000. Traffic in the US: >30,000/y
I can't say whether this new policy is in line with their warranty, but I don't see how anyone would make a case that it's discriminatory even where smokers are a protected class. They are targeting the smoke itself, not the smokers. If you're a smoker but you don't do it around your computer, or it just happens to be reasonably clean, you're going to be fine. If you don't smoke, but you like to store your computer in your chimney flue, they're still going to refuse to work on it.
On the other hand, smoke residue is hardly the most dangerous or disgusting thing anyone has had to deal with on the job, and using OSHA as an excuse seems pretty weak. If they just acknowledged that they're going to treat excessive smoke exposure the same way they would excessive heat or humidity, that would seem entirely reasonable.
Having worked on smokers' computers, I can say that the only time this would cause a problem for the repair person would be if it was utterly, obnoxiously prevalent in the computer. Normally we couldn't tell if the computer came from a smoker's home. But I've seen a few -- only a very few -- where there was literally ash in the casing. I have no idea how it could have gotten there, either, but there you go, and it *reeked*. Seriously reeked; I think only one other tech could bring himself to work on that computer for more than a few minutes. Once someone brought in a laptop and it was painfully obvious the moment they cracked the lid that they smoked pot; I don't think you could hang around the laptop for long without getting an incidental buzz. For a tech who might be allergic to pot smoke, I don't know if it would cause problems, but it certainly wouldn't be pleasant.
So, in summation: When the person complains that their computer had it's warranty voided because they're a smoker, I would hazard a guess to say that they were a VERY heavy smoker and the computer was suffused with ash and reeked. This is NOT the computer of an idle, cigarette-now-and-then smoker, but someone who more or less chain smokes while browsing the web. It probably made working in the GR next to impossible.
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
I won't get, I need no treatment, i may live 5-10 years shorter, but i enjoyed every single day of what i had.
And herein lies the problem. Like 99% of other smokers, you justify your habit with this line. However, when the time actually comes, your line no longer holds ground because your opinion changes once you're in the situation and you get treatment anyways. If someone forced you to sign a paper to no medical treatment for smoking ailments right now for 20 years in the future, I can guarantee you you'd start sweating when you picked up the pen.
Baseless promises about the future are the same reason the US has a giant deficit and slackers go bankrupt for getting too deep in debt.
Considering the exaggerated cost vs. functionality of Apple products (similar to Sony or Ralph Lauren), people who are snubbed by a blatantly self-serving company shouldn't be offended. What people should be upset by is the militant stance of non-smokers and how "PC" it's become to cow-tow to them. This attitude is just another example of trading freedom for security. Fuck your security. If you can't protect yourself from ignorance, it shouldn't be my job to give up my freedoms to shield you. We've become a species governed by reverse Darwinism, only the weak get what they want. Reach deep and find your balls (metaphorical), stop bitching and forcing your opinions about how I should live my life.
You should be free to live with your own mistakes and triumphs. Just don't expect me to suffer for them.
Apple has an obligation to repair broken parts. There is no warning or clause that covers cigarette tar and it's effects on the inner-workings of your computer. Also, will they repair your computer of it's damaged by a virus or willful acts of ignorance?
Take some fucking responsibility.
"Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
While I think the reaction is over-the-top (and giving Apple techs that degree of personal control dangerous), nicotine tar does have a destructive impact on computer components, and it is very hard to non-destructively remove. Somewhere around here I suspect I still have photos I took 25 years ago of an IBM-PC-XT-class system that had been used by a chain-smoker: the interior was heavily coated with nicotine tar, damaging a number of components and making it virtually impossible to remove to prevent further future damage, especially when there was no expectation that the exposure would stop. The entire interior had a sticky yellow tinge. I wound up showing the interior to the customer and factually pointed out that the same compound was also coating his lungs, and he seemed rather persuaded by that visual demonstration.
There was a lesson here for these two puffers to learn, but they chose to ignore the lesson and transfer the blame for the consequences of their poor choices to others. They should be giving the mirror a smackdown, not Steve Jobs.
Who cares? If he enjoys killing himself with cigarettes, it's his business. He's not hurting anybody but himself.
Why are some people so obsessed with controlling other people's lives?
Maybe not
Well, third-hand smoke is considered by at least some docs to be a direct cancer risk.
The NYT doesn't say anything about peer reviews of the study though. Now it does list some of the substances that so called third-hand smoke contains but it doesn't mention what vehicle exhaust contains or the poisons that food is sprayed with. Nor does it say anything about the emissions from the paper industry.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Well... actually, no.
It's a privilege that the community (in the guise of government) can (and has legitimate interest to) regulate as long as you're driving on roads the community pays for and maintains. You, as a community member, probably have some input to the process, but in a healthy community, that input will be scaled to an appropriate, and fairly minor, fraction. Ideally, this would be proportionate to the amount you contribute to cost and maintainance.
OTOH, If you drive 20 miles to work on your own privately owned and maintained roads, it's a matter of personal freedom. And strangely enough, it's legal in most places without license or other community interference.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
If I had been in a car, both vehicles would have been close to being totaled because this moron pulled out into traffic that she couldn't see coming because of a line of stopped cars, which she admitted to the police officer. Because I was driving a motorcycle, I was able to react far more quickly than in a car. If I had been in a car, I would have rear ended her at 45 mph and ending up with head and neck injuries that could have cost far more. Because I was on a bike, I was able to veer sharply to the right. I bounced off her rear quarter panel, kept the bike upright, and I coasted to a controlled stop. Total bike bill --- $900. Her car received over $2K worth of damage from my foot peg and foot.
The cost to society because so many morons drive cars and DON'T PAY ATTENTION is far more disproportionate than their contribution to society, regardless of whether or not motorcycles are involved. The majority of motorcycle crashes are caused by either alcohol (mostly single vehicle crashes that result in the application of Darwin's theory of evolution) or idiots in cars. Motorcycles, and their handicapped twin the scooter, cause far less congestion and road wear due to their smaller size and could reduce the amount spent on road costs every year. They use far less gas (my bike gets 45-50mpg, about what a Prius gets), require fewer resources to make, and are much cheaper. If Congress mandated catalytic converters on bikes, they would generate far less pollution also. But converters get up to around 800F degrees, and it's tough to find a place to put them so that legs don't get burned.
In other words, you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
The question that arises is, to what degree is the rest of society responsible for ensuring that the world is toned down enough so that your defective breathing apparatus is able to cope?
Society spends a great deal of time, effort, and treasure on things like ramps, braille signs, "there may be peanuts in this" warnings, and even running public schools at a speed that ensure a good deal of the left side of the Gaussian has some sort of chance of coping with the curriculum.
I think perhaps the right solution here is for you, the defective one, to medicate or perhaps breathe through something that adjusts the air to your unusual needs. Not for us to cleanse the air of microscopic particulates, cat hair, pollen and so forth.
The idea that society is responsible for making the life of a person with defective parts "the same" as everyone else is very much idealistic, and in the end, impossible anyway. It's your problem; you should have to deal with it. Not everyone else. People are only as equal as they are; and in your case, you're unequal in the "what can I breathe" arena. It boils down to the idea of either removing many interesting things from the air in general, or adjusting your specific intake appropriately. I think the latter is both the most practical solution, as well as the one that addresses the reality of the situation: You're defective. Others are not. You're the one who needs to be making adjustments.
OTOH, To the degree that public behavior is a direct general health risk to others - which smoking is generally understood to be at this point in time - such public behavior should be restricted to sets of consenting and informed individuals. Smoker's clubs and bars; one's own home (presuming said home only contains consenting and informed individuals); areas where other people are virtually certain not to be affected (out on a lake or ocean, etc.)
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Check the citations in the Wikipedia article. There's a whole list of them.
As for the 135 passive smoke deaths, it could be avoided with considerate smokers...
I haven't met any. Ever.
I don't know if you guys realize this, but to those of us who don't smoke, we can really smell it. I mean, really smell it. It's headache inducing if you're just wearing the same clothes that you smoked in yesterday.
I don't know if it causes physical harm or not that much later, but the smell is overpowering and disgusting, and if you really were considerate, you would go out of your way not to subject us to it. Your coworkers, because they can't avoid you without potentially losing income. And your friends, because you like them, and even though they're willing to put up with it, it's kind of a scumbag move to actually make them put up with it.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
1) Smokers pay far more taxes than non-smokers. They are well within their rights to tie up whatever medical resource that they want.
2) A car pollutes the air far more than a cigarette does. While a smoker might be the cause of secondhand smoke, a driver is the cause of air pollution, low visibility haze, global warming and the eventual death of the planet.
3) Mind your own business. Is your life so miserable that you have to impose yourself upon someone else's?
Who cares? If he enjoys killing himself with cigarettes, it's his business. He's not hurting anybody but himself.
That's an oversimplification.
Smokers have more sick days off of work. When they get sick they often get sicker than non-smokers and take longer to recover. More visits to the doctor and more hospital stays meaning more load on the health system meaning less room for others (although that argument is questionable - the health system will always be underfunded).
I'd argue that he is hurting others, but I still agree that a smoker has the right to smoke, as long as the rest of us retain the right to complain bitterly about it.
Bullshit. Everyone dies, everyone gets sick, everyone visits the hospital. If you actually "talk to people", as you imply, you can and will find that tens of thousands of elderly (keyword: ELDERLY) smokers have been healthy all their lives, and have never been in hospital for anything more than childhood illnesses, childbirth, or maybe an accident. The anti-smoking hysteria simply goes to far, and cretins make idiot claims just like yours. We recently buried a smoker who hadn't even been in hospital for childbirth - when she gave birth, the hospital was a day's ride away! Tobacco had nothing to do with her demise. Diabetes killed her.
All I can say is, stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Smoking is foolish, but it isn't the new asbestos, or DDT, FFS.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Regarding the city streets, that smoke turns into dirty-looking sidewalks from the tar, cigarette butts floating up on the beach and in our streams, and other environmental harm that goes way beyond the immediate harm to people nearby.
A few years ago some dolt made a similar argument to me while I was smoking on an outdoor patio at a restaurant. My reply was "I'm sorry sir, I didn't realise I was ruining the clean, pristine air of downtown Atlanta."
I realise many people find smoking to be gross, but most seem to be perfectly content sitting in their cars or big honkin' SUVs for hours at a time breathing exhaust during rush hour. They complain loudly if the government dares try to tell factories and power plants to clean their smokestacks and stop belching so much crap into the air. They mock anyone who suggests that cleaning up our act might be a good idea regardless of whether or not it's actually altering the climate. They defend business' right to pollute freely because "the government has no business interfering".
But god forbid they walk through a cloud of smoke for a few seconds, or even spend an hour in a bar where people are smoking. Then out come the exaggerated coughs and the endless stream of complaints about how they can't breathe and you're trampling their rights and on and on and on.
If your problem is littering (throwing cigarette butts all over the place) that's an entirely seperate issue. We don't ban soda just because some idiots throw bottles and cans all over the place -- another common site on the streets or beaches or rivers of any major city.
Your point about occupational hazards is noted but exaggerated. There's a world of difference between some guy in a rural area taking a job as a coal miner because that's pretty much the only game in town, versus a waiter in a restaurant in an urban city where there is no shortage of restaurants, many of which do not allow smoking. The coal miner's options are extremely limited, whereas the waiter can go to any of the other twenty restaurants in a two-block radius if he really has a problem with smoke.
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
It is a known fact that driving 1 mile in an automobile produces more toxins than a lifetime* worth of heavy smoking. Conclusion of the report is that; In order for cigarette smokes to match the same amount of air pollution in the stated cities, it will require; (from report) * 33 millions cigarettes per person each year * 91,300 cigarettes per person each day * 3,810 cigarettes per person each hour * 64 cigarettes per person each minute http://jarvisjerk.blogspot.com/2009/07/cigarette-smoke-vs-car-emission.html
Civilization, the death of dreams.
Sorry, it's very obvious when:
a) using anything from a smoker's house
b) being near a smoker, whether they are smoking or not.
c) driving behind a smoking driver
d) someone is smoking nearby.
Zippthorne is in no way unique in this regard, even if your own olfactory sense is not processing the stench in the same way.
I call BS on this one. Every biker I know says a car handles quicker under emergencies than a bike.
As a biker, I'm going to agree with the GP on this. I think there are a number of factors: a) On a bike you tend to stay much more alert and aware of other vehicles. b) The average skill of a biker is higher than a car driver. c) You're only 3 feet wide. It sure makes dodging easier.
I've been in a similar situation, I was going down the road at 40 miles/hour, and a car pulls out of a side street into my lane, stops. Leaving it completely blocked. The only thing I could do, was go into the oncoming lane to get around the car. Fortunately the oncoming lane had moved over just enough that I missed them. I miraculously made it through with only inches on either side. Had it been a car? I would've ploughed into the idiots driver side door (and probably killing her). Or maybe my reflexes would've caused me to try dodge the car, and have had a head-on collision.
Yes I'm aware these are just two datapoints, but perhaps you could quit with the jerk statements:
You don't really have a bike, do you?
Your race track analogy isn't exactly accurate when it comes to real life cars and bikes. F1 cars are about as similar to the average commuter as...well they are not very similar at all.
There have been many head to head races between production bikes and production cars and the bikes generally are much faster however the individual track does play a big role. This is mainly due to the acceleration (there is not a 4 wheeled car under $100K that can match the acceleration of a $10K sports bike) however the handling is quite similar. There is less of a holy sh^t factor approaching a corner on four wheels than on two which make entrance speeds faster for the car.
As for the linked video, put each vehicle on that track alone and compare times, I think you'd find a much different story.
As to handling better in an emergency, there are many factors that could make a bike avoid an accident better than a car. They generally have less lateral distance to travel to get around an obstacle, they can get around obstacles in less space (for example around the left side of the car in front without smacking head-on into oncoming traffic). Standard riding training will also teach you to ride in the 'third' of the lane instead of the center to allow both better visibility and easier avoidance should something happen in your lane. You also generally sit higher on a bike than most passenger cars and have no blind spots.
This is A-Grade bullshit. I have been a chain smoker for five years. You could probably tarmac a small freeway from all the crap that has fallen into my keyboard. But there is no tar whatsoever on my heatsinks or fans. I just cleaned them last week ( after five years ) and there is dust, yes, but no tar.
The most disgusting computer I ever saw was one kept in a screen-printing factory with a concrete floor. Grey dust 2mm thick over the whole motherboard. Can people refuse warranty service on computers because they don't like your carpet?
Take your anti-smoking FUD and stick it somewhere else.
I don't believe you for a second. Your statement may look good for slashdot, but one would expect all electronics to fail because of smoke. Are TVs, VCRs, DVDs, PVR's, fridges, sound systems, game systems, microwaves ovens, clocks, etc., failing because of smoke? Of course not.
Olrik (non-smoker)
Tell that Libertarian inside you that nobody forces him to live in a society if he doesn't want to be forced to do something at all. Playing by the rules is the cost of doing business in a society.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap