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Apple Voiding Smokers' Warranties?
Mr2001 writes "Consumerist reports that Apple is refusing to work on computers that have been used in smoking households. 'The Apple store called and informed me that due to the computer having been used in a house where there was smoking, [the warranty has been voided] and they refuse to work on the machine "due to health risks of second hand smoke,"' wrote one customer. Another said, 'When I asked for an explanation, she said [the owner of the iMac is] a smoker and it's contaminated with cigarette smoke, which they consider a bio-hazard! I checked my Applecare warranty and it says nothing about not honoring warranties if the owner is a smoker.' Apple claims that honoring the warranty would be an OSHA violation. (Remember when they claimed enabling 802.11n for free would be a Sarbanes-Oxley violation?)"
They are not going after cock smokers.
lol
Are second-class citizens now, didn't you get the memo? Right up there with fatties and gays. *eye-roll*
would they not work on ipods that were listened to during sex?
Does putting it in the dishwasher void the warranty?
I moved into a house previously owned by a smoker. Almost got nicotine poisoning just from touching the wallpaper...
Deleted
Can this actually be legal? Smoking is ( currently at least ) legal, so how can they penalize a smoker?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
ROFL I cant wait to see how Stevo's groupies try to spin Apple out of this nonsense.
They have an obligation to the customer under the terms of the warranty. They also have an obligation to their employees. They need to honor both, not pick and choose. If they really believe that opening the computer represents a health threat then they need to issue protective clothing and breathing apparatus to their employees. Simple as that. OSHA does not prohibit working with dangerous materials (manufacturing and maintaining computers DOES involve doing so), it just requires proper safety procedures be observed when doing so. The possibility of working with computers that have been exposed to cigarette smoke was not unknown or plausibly considered to be remote at the time when these warranties were issued.
Apple is more than a computer, it's a whole lifestyle.
You always have to do what big brother Apple tells you to do.
Sheesh. If I wanted a nanny state I would go live in Taxachusetts.
and I get to smoke in my own house, while browsing the Internet (for porn)
is a worker can sue their employer for forcing them to work on hazardous materials. smoke in all of it's forms isn't good for your lungs. Would you work on a computer that a tobacco chewer has been spitting in? Where is the line drawn? How do we know the imac in question wasn't used as an ash tray and that's why it failed? I have watched careless smokers. they dump ash and their butts everywhere.
While I find the absolute idea preposterous (just send it to me I don't care about smokers stupid personal choices), legally any company is put into a damned if you do and damned if you don't position.
All that said just fix the friggin computer. maybe this will point out the flaws in the system. though no one will ever fix them.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Well, water is legal, but getting water in a PC or a cell phone voids the warranty.
So, it would then come down to whether or not smoking is hazardous to electronic equipment.
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
That said, I can always tell when a computer I'm working on has a smoker for an owner. The smoke leaves a yellowish to brownish residue. Dust sticks to it. In the worst case I can recall seeing, cooling slots were blocked by congealed fuzzy crap.
It's nasty, and I can see it contributing to component failure in bad cases.
That would void the warranties of about 90% of all apple products sold.
would that make gay fat smokers 6th or 8th class citizens?
I'm insulted, and appalled. What is next, refusing service if you have ( legal ) things they don't approve of on your drive ( like porn? )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Next thing you know you'll need a doctors note stating you do not have an infectious disease before they honor your warranty.
Any company is responsible for their employee's health and safety. They're also bound to honor the warranty. So obviously Apple should provide the techs with Hazmat suits.
I read the article, and while it wasn't 100% clear, it looks like the computer is damaged by smoke (tar). What is confusing is that Apple is doing an OSHA violation stating we can't make anyone work on it because of contamination. What is it? Contamination or owner damage? If I have a warranty that includes fixing it including when I drop the computer, then they should fix it, but then they can say OSHA violation and NOT fix it.
Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
class action lawsuit anyone.
Sometimes laws have unintentional negative consequences, but most of the "Oh, we can't do this any more, because the government has a rule that says {X}" is generally BS. Case in point, no banks offer fixed rate credit cards.
Wanna know why? Want to know why banks don't offer fixed rate credit cards, that is, credit cards whose interest rate doesn't change? Want to know why they've all withdrawn them, the credit cards they had with fixed rates? Want to know?
Are you sitting down?
You heard that right: the credit card companies, and their obedient apologists in the right wing media, claim that the reason they can't offer fixed rate credit cards is because they can't vary the rate of a fixed rate credit card... very often.
Yeah, the government's to blame for that one. Right.
Sarbanes Oxley? What businesses except Apple don't offer free "good will" gifts from time to time to their existing customer base, that previously did so? And what's the clause in SO anyway that bans businesses from traditional goodwill accounting? What's that? It doesn't exist? Damn right it doesn't exist!
And now OSHA is banning Apple from working on laptops contaminated with tobacco smoke? Quite honestly, even for Apple, it seems like a stretch to me. I'm inclined to assume it's probably false, but it's not going to completely surprise me, given the above, if Apple reveals it's true.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
soooo...ummm....wear gloves and a simple mask when working on the damp computer. It's not a violation if you use proper PPE ...
The massive success of the iPhone has emboldened Apple. Otherwise how can you explain that behavior? Heck, there are thousands of apps for the iPhone so Apple think they are invincible.
Good we have some kind of competitor (read Droid) though Motorolla are curtailing the Droid's success by marketing only to the USA. And Google are not helping matters by creating avenues for incompatibilities around Android.
Gloves and a face mask.
Murphey's fighting Occam, and we're in the stands.
Conforming to government regulations is ridiculous, Sarbanes-Oxley and OSHA. Bitch to your senator or congressmen about diminished freedom.
Computers of smokers are well, filthy, and hard to repair. Dust and tar everywhere, blocking ventilation and making mechanical parts fail sooner of later.
Eww, I'd agree with waranty void there.
-- Technology for the sake of technology is as pathetic as eschewing technology because it's technology.
Look at this and tell me that you wouldn't run screaming if someone asked you to repair that. Also, the way smoke is clogging up that fan, I'm thinking that smoking around a computer is a decent reason to void your warranty. Like using your phone in the rain. The harm came to the unit through your own negligence...
IANAL and this is not legal advice.
If a 'smoking exclusion' was not in the contract, then they lied to you when they sold the contract, plain and simple.
Sue them in small claims court for the value of the computer. If your state is like Ohio and they award 3x damages for a breach of consumer protection act (a breach of contract might trigger this), you could get a nice upgrade.
If you don't want to go that far at least complain to your state's attorney general.
Smokers cost the world a huge amount every year. Talking to doctors I know, most people they see in hospitals are smokers. (Although I know the converse isn't true...) So kudos to apple for making them pay for a bad habit that costs others.
As a smoker I find it hard to deny Apple's case here. Tobacco smoke is not a good thing for electronics. Neither would be lots of candle smoke, grease smoke, auto exhaust and many other environmental contaminates that could leave a residue on the hardware.
For the smokers out there: is it really that hard to take a break and go outside? I've always felt that was the best part... take a break, go out, have a smoke and consider what ever you're doing - then go back and get it done.
Of course these are not likely people using their computers for productive things... probably ex-AOLers chatting up people while drinking and smoking. In which case - ??? WTF just get a life already.
Oh and it's gross to smoke cigs in your house. Same as it would be gross to smoke a turkey inside or any number of things that leave residue everywhere.
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
The fans inside computers shovel several cubic meters of air every day through a very tight space. It could certainly be possible, that this leads to amounts of poisonous residue far above your usual passive smoking hazards. And thus this might not be another piece of green hysteria, but consistent and reasonable action even despite the public outcry, that this may cause.
Oh man up. I've repaired worse. That kind of damage can happen to any computer near the front door of your house.
This is my sig.
I've worked in two separate computer retail repair shops where we've voided warranties for this. It's not just because there's a smoker in the household; it's the results that inflicts on the computer. Like parent said, it gets NASTY. I've seen it gum up CPU and graphics card fans many, many times.
It constitutes abuse of the equipment, and that is explicitly not covered under warranty.
Here's a nice gallery of what cigarette smoke does to PCs: http://www.squidoo.com/cigarette-smoke-computer-damage
Even if you accepted the inflated figures of second hand smoke, some smoke exposure is a pretty fricking low cause of death. AS it is, the number 1 killer in the USA, or at least near to it, is the fricking flu. If Apple cared about their workers, their hourly people would get paid sick time.
This is my sig.
Remember when they claimed enabling 802.11n for free would be a Sarbanes-Oxley violation?
Why yes, I do. I also remember that it's a perfectly legitimate (though perhaps conservative) claim as well. And I also remember all the people mocking Apple who clearly had no idea at all how revenue must be accounted for in publicly-held companies. Apparently some of you ignoramuses just do not want to let go...
After all, 90% of U.S. currency has traces of cocaine on it. I'm pretty sure the Apple store is dealing.
... it is the most absurd thing I've heard in a while. I am not a smoker, and don't like the smell that smoking leaves on clothing and such, but to refuse to work on a smoker's gadget because of "second hand smoke" is ridiculous. But then, Apple tends to the ridiculous.
Is this story legit? Can it be confirmed?
Who the hell smokes indoors? That's fucked up.
Cory Doctorow talking about cloud computing makes as much sense as George W Bush talking about electrical engineering.
I used to work as a computer technician to pay my tuition.
Computers that had either failed or seized up due to nicotine/tar build up were impossible to clean, and nearly impossible to repair. The nasty build-up got literally everywhere, clogging heatsinks, coating voltage regulators, caps, expansion slots, and other devices that depend on air convection to stay cool. The only way to get these machines running stably again was usually massive part replacement.
If smoking doesn't constitute improper operation, it should. For all the people bitching out there, smoking has been demonstrated to cause premature failure to humans, particularly second-hand smoke which contains a Noah's Ark of nasty bacteria and pathogens. WHy is it such a surprise that it also kills sensitive electronic equipment?
Front door? What happens at the front door?
They've also refused service on devices where their litmus indicator shows signs of turning pink (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=9214797, http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/14/smart.phones.buggy/index.html, http://techgeist.net/2009/09/apple-iphone-abuse-detection-sensors-abusing-2/). It sounds like they're still looking for more excuses not to honor their "warranty."
I won't be buying any more Apple products.
Why did you choose it if you you did not like it?
That's not trolling. That's a serious question. Presumably nobody put a gun to the grandparents head and forced him to move into that house.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
For once I am pleased with Apple's quirky business policies.
In addition to being a biohazard, enough smoking over time by many people seems to actually deposit a greassy residue on the inside of the computer parts, like the heat sinks, integrated circuits, fan blades. I used to be the IT administrator for an office of a dozen people, back when it was somehow allowed to smoke indoors in the office while you work. And the style was for everyone to smoke. As a non smoker I was a minority, and had to put up with working in that mess.
But for the computer parts, after about six months the parts looked as though someone had sprayed them with PAM cooking oil, and then dusted with ashes. All chunder stuck on fuzzy layer of dust bunnies, and "that" smell of 1000 cigarettes. We went through a lot of computers because of the lack of ability for the parts to cool themselves with the ambient air circulation inside the cases.
So my fendangled point was, it is not fair for Apple, or any computer company to have to honor warranty claims for computers that were subjected to the abuse of a smoker, as the hardware was subjected to environmental conditions that was not in any of the designed intended use. For example, if I put my computer through a dish washer, they would have the equal right to not honor my warranty claim, as I 'intentionally damaged' it in much the same way. I would like to see other companies start doing this too.. Buy a car? Did you smoke in it ? Oh, now it has no resale value, sorry.
If you spilled beer in the keyboard would you expect them to replace it under warranty?
No sig today...
when your control neurosis becomes insanity...
i used to be in radio back when everybody smoked. we kept the (smoking) engineers busy cleaning scratchy pots on a regular basis. it wasn't a big deal. since smoking isn't allowed in studios anymore the pots stay clean indefinitely. but i mean seriously, removing airborne pollutants that have settled on components is a routine practice.
for all that however computers themselves are biohazards. try throwing one out sometime. if apple was consistent they wouldn't anyone build them - let alone repair them.
this story is like something the onion would come up with.
You guys complaining about this are the biggest babies. Aside from the fact that this information extremely ( to say the least ) exaggerated, you guys have all been mislead by this smoke in your eyes nonsense. Please take a look at http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com. Oh, and most of these chemicals found in tobacco smoke are perfectly fine under EPA guidelines.
You just don't want to see what happens to the computer near the back door.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I like Apple. I bought a Mac in 1984 and have bought a bunch of them since then. I own Apple stock. After about 12 years it was worth about half what I paid for it but then it has performed very nicely over the last few years. But let's face it. Apple is thoroughly infused with self-righteous a..holes. That's the image one gets from the top down. I think they may even work on it. It's a valued trait in the company. Ever go into an Apple store. It seems like being a self-righteous a..hole is a core skill required for employment. Heck, even I, when I advise people about what kind of computer they should buy, I can feel that self-righteous a..hole feeling welling up inside me. It even feels good sometimes. Unfortunately, it's part of the price of using Apple computers. You just have to deal with it.
I wonder what happens if you smoke in your BMW.
I can understand employees not wanting to touch a yellow or brown mac. I hate working on smokers computers, tar makes a great insulator and does damage components and yet somehow it is your fault that the computer does not work. Neither of the two examples given indicate the amount of tar buildup on the computer, generally if it just smells like a smokers computer, there is no problem, it gets repaired. The only time a computer gets labeled a biohazard is if there is a significant amount of residue on the computer. The first post does sound like tar related damage, which could be considered user abuse(voids warranty).
Smoking is a biohazard, after all.
In my contract with ATT for my cell phone, it clearly states that the warranty does not cover any damage due to water. In fact there's a white sticker on the inside that turns colored if it gets wet.
Apple should be putting all sorts of detection stickers inside their cases, and modifying the warranty on new purchases.
I've worked on old computers all my life, and you can bet if it looks dusty from the outside, it's probably a lot worse on the inside, I always wear a mask when opening those up. Apple just doesn't want to pay for masks/gloves/glasses (aka safety equipment).
What would happen if you bought a second hand computer which was owned by a smoker and then brought it in for repair? Does apple have a qualification program to determine if your computer is able to be qualified by their AppleCare program? Is it like health insurance whereby you need to visit your Dr. to get a clean bill of health before some insurance company will cover you?
Slashdot ate my [shudder] tag.
Dealing with anything which a smoker has owned (or used) is just completely disgusting. House, covered in yellow nicotine stains, thin film of brown smoke residue on fucking *everything*. I have a photo somewhere of a lightbulb which has a yellow/brown vapour deposition coating on one side, the other being less exposed. Then there's the smell on their clothes, in their cars, the yellowed teeth, yellowed fingers. I'd put money on it that the macbook in question was just as disgusting inside.
Deleted
That's not from smoking, it's from dust and dander in the air. His father probably has pets.
I've seen more computers clogged with cat hair than I've seen clogged with cigarette ash.
I've worked on computers from time to time and the worst are those from people who burn candles or that seem to have way too much perfume in their home. The candles leave residue just like smoking. Oh and don't forget the fur-balls when the computer sits on the floor with a cat in the house.
I suppose Apple will void the warranties on those folks too?
This article made me nostalgic for arcade machines with cigarette burns in certain locations on them. On some games, you'd balance your butt on the edge of the cabinet. Other games' ergonomics seemed to favor keeping the cig between your fingers and would get brown burn marks next to the most common buttons.
Yeah, sonny. In my day we had to walk to the arcade to play games. Sometimes through the snow. And when we got there, people SMOKED inside. So get off my lawn^H^H^H^Hgame.... didn't you see the quarter I put on it?
Mine complains about my brownish-yellow stained computer cables every time I have my servers in for service (yes, I smoke in the server room, sue me). But mostly because they care about my health and don't want to lose a good customer to the coughing death.
Oh, maybe my service fee is higher than what you pay at Apple. But it includes face masks to protect their techs, it seems. I'm fairly sure you get them cheaply from a lot of governments that bought tons of masks during the last flu craze but nobody wanted to wear them in public because they make you look like a paranoid loonie.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The issue is not whether smoking is legal or illegal; there are plenty of legal things you can do a computer that would void the warranty. If they're going to make this argument, they simply need to support the claim that the damage to the computer goes beyond normal wear and tear.
For example, computers in chemical labs often fail because small amounts of airborne chemicals attack the PC boards and chassis. I've worked on boxes that look like they'd been strapped to the bottom of a battleship for a few years.
Having seen the office accommodations of some chain smokers, I can't say I blame Apple. I've seen environments where every surface is coated with brown, sticky residue and a multi-millimeter thick layer of dust and ash.
Well If the P... errm Mac looked like this : //Captcha:cleaning
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/13/ventblockers/
then I'd probably not touch it either .
I fix computers for a living, and I will vouch for the pain that is working on a "three pack a day" computer. It's not terribly bad as long as they keep a clean house, but when there's a lot of dust in the machine, AND they're a very heavy smoker, the entire inside of the computer is filled with a matte of dustbunny solidified by tar. It's a dark mustard looking soft foam and reeks to high heaven, and when you touch it, it wipes off on your hands like ash AND sends a fine dark yellow cloud up into the air. Takes 5 minutes of hand scrubbing to get most of it off after you're done working on it.
I don't think I'd call it a "biohazard", as there's not a lot of chance of my inhaling any nicotine, but it's certainly unpleasant to work on. It also tints the entire machine a dingy yellow, especially the white plastics and the front of LCD panels. It also kills optical drives. (clouds the laser lens) Occasionally we get in a machine that looks ok, but reeks of tar when you pick it up. When we open it up, it's obviously a heavy smoker's computer, that they took the time to clean the outside case before bringing it in. "surprise!"
Most computers have active air cooling, and function like air filters. If you're filling the air with nasty, you should expect a lot of it to collect inside your computer, and nobody likes dealing with that.
Twice we've had to refuse warranty repair for a killed optical drive, and once a smoker wanted us to replace (under warranty) an LCD panel that had "become discolored". No, really? Like the WALLS and CURTAINS in your house? ick ick ick.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
If you begin smoking, then there is not one bit of you that has any respect for humanity and the world you live in. Smoking is 100% egocentric, you do it because other people do it and you want to be "cool" like them - very cool of you, wanting to be like people who smoke, rob, vandalize cars, and otherwise are completely without respect. There is no possible way at all that one can start smoking and have respect for anyone. And there is no good excuse for starting it, because there simply is no reason to do it. It stinks and does not have the pleasurable effects of, say, cannabis. So, good riddance.
So you expect a warranty to cover water damaged devices? When you find a company that covers water damaged equipment under warranty, please let us all know!
The smoking thing is a bit strange, and I'll have to see if they say anything more. I'd love to see pictures of the device that was submitted for repair!
Disclaimer: Yes I own Apple devices, and I seem to be in the minority in that Apple Care has been a great experience for me.
If the Consumerist can be trusted this time, this does not surprise me in the least, and I totally support Apple this one time.
We had mangeto-optical disks in the 90s at a "smoke friendly" office that kept dropping sectors. Finally found someone at the vendor who suggested we open up the disk cartridges, and carefully clean the platters.
Secondhand smoke cost my company dozens of hours of labor, and real costs due to the data that was lost.
Don't get me started on the machines I've had to work on that were in despicable condition, owned by smokers. This goes beyond the normal dust that sneaks in - this crud doesn't come off without an acid bath.
a pipe smoker once suggested to me to add a slice of apple
to a opened pack of pipe tobacco, if it dried out to quick.
I guess Apple's engineers were informed that once the smoke is out, you can't put it back in.
Taking showers is legal too, but that doesn't mean Apple has to fix it under warranty if you try to use your Mac while taking a shower.
Better known as 318230.
An Apple authorized service provider near me (Mac-Pro) has no problem with the cigarette smoke. My airport base station was hung on the wall above a smoker's head for 2 years. The thing was yellow and the insides just reeked of stale cigarette butts.
They fixed it up. And even offered to take it in exchange for a discount on a newer model if I was unhappy with the discoloration and smell.
When I worked in an electronic repair shop, we had lots of toxic chemicals we would use to clean people's stereos and tvs and vcrs. You could get all of the yellow gunk and most of the smell off the outside and inside of a device with a little bit of effort. Giving a customer a device back that is fixed and shiny makes them really happy. It's called customer service.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
http://www.macmothership.com/gallery/newads/applebaked.gif Apple has in the past claimed that they will work on smoke damaged machines.
Hate to tell all you people but thats not ash, its human skin particles. I'm a non smoker and blow out my computer once every 3 months. Its human skin/hair-dog hair/skin -cat hair/skin-smoke from cooking or whatever in the air.
Jack of all trades,master of none
Get a life? You think that's possible for anyone who dreams of Steve Jobs with an Apple up their ass? Fucking Apple users^W whores just like to bitch even though they enjoy being treated like shit. Nothing new. Hell they crave it and they flaunt it, why else would they be Apple customers? Steve Jobs knows what the harem really wants and gives it to them hard (there's a reason he ain't designing socks). Butch, femi, or Apple, that's the three main kinds of homosexuality, simple as that. There are no other explanations for the rounded corners (edges hurt too much with protracted use), the one button mouse (vagina envy), anal sex (vagina envy again), and everything else Apple including the name itself (it screams "eat me!").
Buy a normal laptop instead of an Apple and smokers can easily afford buying two new ones when needed, each of the three machines should last at least two years and they would have bought at least one new Apple dildo within six years anyway.
Regards,
Anonymous "Big Black Chimney" Coward
P.S. I touched a MacIntosh once and there was nothing under the kilt, it was an "empty kilt". They aren't buying Apples to get a computer that's for sure. And Apple just misread BSD.
I once fixed a computer that had some hardware damage to the motherboard.
A mouse had taken up residence inside, along with a rather good-sized colony of black widow spiders. The mouse was dead, either from electrocution or the spiders, and had chewed through a good bit of the motherboard to make its nest. Some people don't take any care of their things.
Not a sentence!
They need to grow some balls. An underpaid janitor gets to clean rotten piss off the bathroom floor everyday.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
http://store.ovi.com/content/744FD2C886D77218E040050A87327F92?clickSource=search
Deleted
The only reason anyone anywhere is getting away with anti-smoking legislation is because cars can't be intimidated.
Oh, and the majority of those calling for an all-out ban are pro-NORML hypocrite asshats.
~Just as a thing fails if it lacks a kernel, so too it fails if it lacks a skin. ~ Rumi, Discourses
IANAL but warranties shouldn't be void if you prefer it at the back door or front door.
So, can I tell my boss that I cannot go to work because of the health risks of being around other employees who choose to smoke and destroy their bodies?
I am not a smoker. I have never and will never smoke a single cigarette. This whole thing just sounds like weasels trying to worm their way out of honoring a warranty. I bet Apple would still fix it if you paid them, thereby putting the technicians "at risk" from the smoker who owns the computer.
In other words, they'll subject the technicians to it, but only for a price? :)
Its a reason to exercise the 'replace' option in the 'repair or replace at our discretion' portion of your warranty agreement.
Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
They are probably concerned about this: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/03/health/research/03smoke.html Even so, this does not relieve them of their warranty obligations. If they cannot safely handle the item, then they probably have to simply replace it.
The visible parts are dust and dander, but they only accrete quite that heavily in a sticky environment.
Sticky, like cigarette smoke residue sticky.
Smoke by itself just produces a thin yellow slightly conductive layer which is a pain to get off. Dust by itself just produces a messy layer which just needs a tiny bit of compressed air to clean it off. The two together produce horrible sticky masses like those shown in the pictures - compressed air will do *nothing* to that!
Whenever you see used amateur radios for sale, "non smoker" is a selling point. I was once given a CB from a guy who was a 3 pack a dayer. His car was a bomb, and the radio took an hour to attempt to clean. It still smells slightly, over a year later in a no smoke environment. This sort of radio makes little heat and uses little power. I can only imagine the smells from a big radio (100 watts out) or a 1500 watt linear amplifier.
ROFLWMP (rolling on floor laughing,wetting my pants)
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
If they don't want to fix them, fine. I wouldn't either. I'd put it in the fucking warranty though. That's the point you shit head Apple fanboys that are cheering them for not fixing smokers computers. And to all you shit head anti-Apple fanboys, Apple shouldn't be responsible for idiots destroying their computer with stupid crap like blowing smoke into it. It should be in the warranty, though. ffs
No kidding, I've been chain smoking next to my computer for years and I don't get shit like that.
-The world would be a better place if everyone had a hoverboard
Back when I did computer support, we allowed smoking in offices that were completely closed off (no cubicals). One executive secretary (who smoked) had a computer problem (coincidentally a mac) - wouldn't boot. Computer couldn't find hard drive. Opened up the covers and the computer was pretty much puke yellow inside. The fan sucked all that smoke right through the case.
This was a mac IIci (ancient history I know) and the hard drive had an exposed flywheel. Hard drive was very very hot. Gave the fly wheel a shove and it spun up and the computer booted. All that smoke residue had gummed up the hard driver. Cleaned it all up with isopropal alcohol and it was good to go again. Gave her a new hard drive just in case.
Bottom line, yes, you can tell if a heavy smoker owned the computer and yes it does affect the life of the computer.
Congrats, once again your addiction costs you money. Consider quitting.
I used to smoke a pack of Parliaments a day... but I've moved on to "vaping"...
Best place to start with electronic cigarettes is to read this thread at something awful...
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3171692&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
There are a lot of people who do reviews for these products on youtube... I subscribe to a few of their channels... here is my favorite one...
http://www.youtube.com/user/GrimmGreen
"Consumerist reports that Apple is refusing to work on computers that have been used in smoking households. '
I like the way that they've gone out of their way to ask other Leading Computer Brands what their policy would be if one of their employees refuses to work on a machine because of smoke contamination.
Oh, wait - they haven't.
Mind you, if I spent my days repairing other peoples computers, smokers or not, I would certainly investigate these things called "face masks" and "gloves". I mean, look at these puppies...
I wouldn't like to repair mine if I wasn't me :-)
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
People who smoke should shut up and deal with it. Cigarette smokers are the cause of all the world's problems. Bio-hazard is a political correct term for the scum that they are.
Uh oh! I farted next to my computer last night. I called Apple and they said that voided the warranty as well.
When I first saw the headline I figured it was acceptable.
I figured that it was due to the fact that ash and tar build up are very good at causing all sorts of issues to a PC. That is undeniable if you've worked on any heavy smoker's PC if they smoke around it.
But no ...
They aren't servicing it because of a bullshit execuse like lung cancer for the repair tech? You've have got to fucking be kidding me. If they were actually concerned about what might be inhaled they'd already be using safe breathing procedures, A blown capacitor produces far more carcinigens than any residue left over from smoking.
The car they drove to work put out more pollution and dangerous chemicals before they left the driveway than inhaling second hand smoke from the mouth of a smoker.
I'm fine with safe working conditions, but this sort of shit is just ridiculous. I'm not a smoker, but I'm so sick and tired of this retarded sort of shit. I'm sick of those retarded jackasses that will start coughing and bitching about smoke when they are 30 feet upwind of a smoker. They can't even smell the shit.
I'm tired of the bullshit implication that second hand smoke is worse than first hand. I'm tired of the retarded 'education' done by uppity bitches pushing their agenda to stop smoking.
I'm about to start smoking just to blow smoke in the faces of these people.
Apple can refuse to repair machines for legitimate reasons, smoking included. 'The repairman is inhaling it' isn't a legitimate reason. If the units have ash and tar in them, they'll also have hair, skin cells, bacteria and fungus spores, from humans and pets, every chemical in the environment the unit has been in and all sorts of other shit. The tar and ash from smokers is the least of your concern, or at least it should be.
Refusing repair because the ash has stopped air from moving through a heatsink, fine. Tar build up has caused a fan to stop working or resulted in a short, fine. As long as you refuse repairs for all of these reasons unrelated to smoking so people stop buying your products when they realize you don't make them properly to handle everyday use.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
The outgassing from those computers is worse for your health than cigarette smoke residue, I assure you.
Ecplain to me why an unsupported argument gets a mod-up to +5, Insightful.
The Apple techs have my sympathy. The smoke also chews up the electronics and oxidizes the connectors.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Either:
*normal levels of cigarette smoke do not void the warranty
OR
*Apple engaged in fraud by not making this clear before the time of sale. This is especially true for extended warranty products.
Pick one.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
It may be more of a danger to children, but to dismiss an environment that is coated with poison dust as harmless without further study is absurd.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-third-hand-smoke
http://www.rootstrikers.org/
Can anyone name a computer service that can properly clean a machine that qualifies as a biohazard?
I've both refused to repair systems with vapor deposition of true nastiness, as well as seen the allergic reaction of a poor fool who worked on a similar machine. If a machine's components have a sticky yellow coating on them from so much smoke going through the system, you need gloves to handle those components, and you need to remove the sticky film so they will work properly. Apple stores are not equipped to do that. As with most OSHA stuff, you need to know the rules to protect yourself, no one is tasked with telling you, "You will have a skin reaction and cough for the next few days."
I can't say that I blame them. I've worked on a few computers from smoking environments. The insides are typically caked and coated with nicotine residue. It definitely rubs off on your hands when working with the insides. Not to mention the smell is disgusting. Can't say I blame them at all.
But storing your Mac near one* doesn't void the warranty.
*I'm talking normal consumer-grade magnetic screwdrivers, not industrial magnets.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Mostly anti-apple here. But I have ALWAYS hated what cigarette smoke does to computers. When such damage happens to stuff due to a fire in the home, they call it "smoke damage." I recognize some differences such as the temperature of the room when such damage occurs, but if I were Apple, I would first require that the source of the offensive smell be removed from the computer prior to completion of any warranty covered work. This would say "fine, you can smoke around your computer, but don't expect us to work on it until you have removed the offensive substance from the computer." But then again, try removing the substance without voiding the warranty...
The bottom line I think is that users are subjecting the computers to damage that is not covered under warranty. And it is a biohazard to expect people to work on these things in that state. Working on computers with smoke damage has, at times, caused severe dizziness and disorientation and prevented me from being able to concentrate on the work that was to be done. Such condition call for some sort of "push back" from the supplier of service and support. I hold that it is unreasonable to expect people to work under those conditions.
Simple, just ask any big tobacco apologist for your answer. Personally, the notion tobacco is even legal is frightening to say the least. First, second, and third hand tobacco smoke not only causes health problems it also is a major contributor to the greenhouse gasses that cause global warming. The smoke from the burning tobacco and paper coupled with the transportation and cultivation and harvesting of the tobacco creates more greenhouse gasses than the tobacco absorbs while it is growing. Willfull ignorance does not eliminate the facts; however the stupid believing that it does proves one thing "The stupid have no teacher except their own experience"
Unless the warranty or EULA specifically mentions smoking, it's fraud plain and simple. The OSHA claims are just as fraudulent and easy to debunk. Just call up your local OSHA office and ask them about it.
About 15-20% of adults smoke. The number for Apple users may be somewhat lower due to the younger and more "chic" demographic.
In any case, at the time Apple was designing its warranty coverage, it knew smoking by its customer or others in the household or business was not so rare or so offbeat that it would be reasonable to exclude it, nor is it obvious to consumers that smoking is bad for the equipment.
At the time of the sale, Apple had 3 choices:
*specifically and prominently state that the warranty is void if the computer is exposed to tobacco smoke
*plan on honoring the warranty
*set the stage for a fraud lawsuit
Since they didn't due the first one, they get to pick from the next two.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
One computer shop I worked in had a "Smokers fee" if the computer was owned by a smoker, and the computer smelled like smoke, or was filed with ash, we would add an extra $40.00 Smoker fee to the computer. We would have to wear gloves because of the nasty coating of smoker gunk on EVERYTHING. We had some smokers try to void the fee by cleaning the outside of their computer, but the moment we opened it and smelled the evidence of smoke, we would call the customer and inform them that we would have to add a smoker fee if we were to continue working on the computer.
The smokers gunk that coats everything can cause cooling fans to fail, prevent heatsinks from giving off heat, and prevent PCI and other slots from accepting cards!
And that shop would void a warranty if we could prove that the SMOKE is what caused the computer to fail. That is the same as flood or water damage.
However we did have an entry in our warranty about smokers. The smokers fee was clearly listed on the wall with the other service charges.
We also had a the option to refuse to service any computer if it was a biohazzard. And we had more than one computer come in with a dead animal rotting inside. We would open the case, see dead rotting flesh, close case and wrap it in garbage bags. Then we would call the customer and inform then we could not service their machine because of a dead animal inside. We also put a sticker on the inside body panel we removed as a warning that we have refused to service this machine before because of a biohazzard, and we would flag their name in the computer, so that we would check all incoming machines from that person for biohazzards or the sticker.
Seriously. I've denied warranty service on systems like this before. Indoor smoker's systems build a horrible layer of greasy filth that can't be properly cleaned and kills fans like you wouldn't believe. It's not the hardware's or the manufacturers fault that fans fail, systems overheat, and components fail as a result of this noxious filth. The fault is in not explaining the situation properly. In cases like these I've always taken photos, physically shown the customer why I'm denying warranty service, and explained carefully. I see similar things in machines used in woodshops, machineshops, etc. And for those who say 'it can't be any worse than cat hair' - it is. If you've seen both, you know. Yes, cat hair can clog fans. It can also be easily taken care of with a cheap can of compressed air. Cigarette filth, on the other hand, never really cleans up properly.
Okay, Apple has gone too far refusing to service their equipment because a user is a smoker. I hope Apple refuses to service someone with willingness and resources to sue. I imagine that would be a black eye on Apple, and because there isn't anything in the warranty about the warranty being voided because of smoke I'd bet they'd lose.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Secondhand computer outgassing is probably bad for me too!
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Has anyone yet mad a connection to this episode and the fact that jobs are fleeing civilized countries were you could refuse to do your job because there is icky cigarette smoke residue on a Mac Mini and going to uncivilized countries where you'd be fired on the spot for suggesting it? I'd bet there's a guy in Asia right now, smoking a cigarette and having a good laugh reading about this.
I assume that you also apply this logic to household with pets. If cigarette smoke residue (more accurately, nicotine which sticks to copper) is enough to put your Mac out of warranty, then pet hair clogging the fans should, too. While we're at it, just having a dusty house applies by the same logic.
BTW, I've had several computers that I smoked right next to and I never had any problems with overheating... because I clean my computers and I know the difference between a hard drive and an ashtray. A little maintenance and common sense goes a long way.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
This computer is less than 2 years old! Only one person in my household smokes - one 21 year old college student.
Yeah, "only" one person, the person that owns the laptop. And anyone that has been a 21 year old college student knows how much you smoke. (hint: a lot). Just because one person smokes doesn't mean their room isn't filled with smoke and tar residue.
Many years ago I used to be the regional IT guy for a paper company and one of my sites was a cardboard factory. Inside the factory we had paper dust everywhere in very large quantities (it was enough of an issue to require a dedicated permanent vacuum system to suck up most of it). We also had printers (the computer were in special industrial cases with filters) on the factory floor that were exposed to large quantities of paper dust.
A brand new laser printer would be coated on the inside with dust within a week at most. We routinely bought rebuild and maintenance kits and rebuilt the printers every three months due to the heavy usage and the effects of all the paper dust. A brand new $1500 HP laser printer had to be rebuilt with a full maintenance performed after three months, something normally not done for years.
Why? All that paper dust coated everything because of the environment that the printer was put into. As a company the idea of trying to get a warranty claim with HP was considered absurd. We put the printer in an environment where it was essentially abused. The innards would be coated and if not for our maintenance schedule they would overheat and slowly bake themselves.
A situation that is really do different than the apple one. Why should Apple have to pay because someone put their computer in an abusive environment where it was physically damaged? If the customer puts a computer in an environment that physically damaged the product, denial of warranty coverage is really straight forward. That environment just happens to belong to a heavy smoker.
Back when I was in high school I worked as a tech at a used computer store. A mac LCII came in for trade in and it was fairly yellow from smoke. I opened it up and it was completely caked on the inside. I'm not sure how the cooling fan survived that much gummy smoke dust. I closed the lid and refused to accept it for trade in. The sales drones weren't happy, but the store manager agreed that we wouldn't take it.
Nasty stuff. I wouldn't want to work on computers who have been around smokers. Some people don't realize how disgusting the greasy brown goo is that covers everything around them where they smoke.
wait, doesn't cigarette smoke dissipate? are the worried about touching the tar residues? what a bunch of sissies. these people are repair techs. When things break in this world, like refrigerators and cars and toilets... there are people who get paid to go inside the device, which is full of yucky, and sometimes carcinogenic (in the case of cars), stuff.
classaction. Enjoy the bad PR, Apple.
They did not claim that the warranty was voided, they claimed that servicing would cause them to violate OSHA regs. This is nonsense. Hell OSHA allows employees to work with asbestos, lead, PCBs, acids, bases, petroleum distillates, beryllium, radioactive shit, and pretty much everything else nasty you could think of. What OSHA does is set permissible exposure limits, training requirements, and work practices such that the employees will be safe while working with nasty things.
Apple may decided to implement training and exposure monitoring, and conduct the repairs in a fume hood or even sub the work out so someone who's not so finicky but they can't just ignore a contract unless the other party backs down. These people should take Apple to small claims court.
-- QED
Wow - the propaganda's getting thick around here.
It's sad really, when anyone carries anything to such extremes as to make themselves look so totally ridiculous.
First let me say I think Apple not servicing Macs under warranty because of smoke is BS! With that out of the way I've had 2 computers have a buildup of dust on the inside, that's why businesses make and I buy cans of compressed air. Now a build up of dust can be serious, it can cause a short circuit and start a fire.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I've worked on machines from smokers only to find the insides covered in fuzzy, sticky brown residue. It smells horrible as well. I can see how this sort of thing could cause warranty issues without question.
If I were Apple, I'd simply take in image of it and show the customer.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
And how many computers come with filters where air intakes are? Once when I asked about dust buildup in my PC, the inside was caked with dust, I was told PCs don't come with filters. The tech suggested I buy a filter and the hardware to hold it then mount it on the air intake. He said that if nothing else to tape a coffee filter over the intake, just make sure air was still able to circulate.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Fill ultrasonic cleaner in glove box with deionized water / detergent solution. Fill rinse tank with deionized water. Start ventilation system for glove box. Using tongs, place unit in glove box and close door. Disassemble unit in glove box. Place each board and case component in ultrasonic cleaner for one minute, then in rinse tank, then on drying rack. Allow 10 minutes for preliminary drying. Open glove box, remove drying rack with components, and take to repair technician. Dispose of contaminated water as medium-toxicity liquid waste.
What's the problem?
Pre-cleaning is routine in maintenance of equipment used in bio and chemical labs and in medical facilities. It works for computers with flood damage, too. Almost all electronic components other than hard drives are tolerant of cleaning in this fashion. The last step in PC board manufacture is a pass through a dishwasher-like cleaning station.
Right on, brother. The day they come to my house to try and take away my cigarettes, a source of income drainage and a damage to my health no matter how much I might be addicted to the stuff and hell no I stopped I deluding myself that I actually like it years ago... is when I will shoot those motherfuckers with a gun with the full intent to wound them (what else am I going to do, shoot a hole in my roof/floor? rofl!), perhaps mortally so. Serves them right.
The last two power supplies and last one monitor I worked on that failed were from smokers. One had the ashtray about 2 inches from the computer. The coating of residue was ridiculous and the smell as I was working on it was awful and I'm sure very harmful! So I totally see where they're coming from with this one! Although logically they should also refuse to work on ones with people who own cats because the insides of cat owner computers are really scary too. Also, I'm allergic to cats and dogs so it's a health hazard.
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
...mainly because they're selfish and inconsiderate fuckers.
But this is going a too far: I see a law suit coming. Any health and safety issues are Apple's problem, not the purchaser's. Apple knows some people who buy their kit are smokers and if there's a genuine health and safety issue with servicing those machines then it's up to Apple to provide the safe environment in which to do so.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
but use one on your Apple and bang goes that warranty
Self servicing hardware is strictly mentioned in Apple's warranty but smoking is not. I'm typing this on my MacBook Pro and I went down to some Apple stores and asked about replacing the hard disk drive with a bigger one, the 160 GB disk it had was almost full, and was told Apple does not do that. I was told that if I wanted a larger disk installed in order to keep the warranty valid I would have to take the MBP to an Apple authorized service center and have them do it. I was specifically told I could not swap drives myself. I was not told I can not smoke.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Cigarettes are far and away the most addictive and deadly products out there for human ingestion when used as intended that can be obtained without any kind of a license or without a doctor's supervision.
Just for some background, I grew up in a two-smoker household. Neither of my parents ever gave me the courtesy of even so much as stepping outside to smoke. My earliest memories are of gagging in the car as both of them were spewing poison into the air with the windows rolled up. "It's not THAT bad," they would tell me. I wish they had told my lungs, since I suffered from chronic bronchitis and several lung infections including pneumonia growing up. My mom died in 2001 of cancer. My dad died in 2005 of cancer. Neither has a family history of the disease, except for my mom's first cousin who died in 2006--who was, incidentally, the only other smoker in my family.
So you want some sanity to break out over this issue?
I'll be right there in that line with you, brother. Let's outlaw tobacco production and usage outright, because allowing such a deadly addictive product on the market with virtually no controls, that's insanity. At the very least, petition our government to classify tobacco as a controlled substance and let the FDA regulate it just like they do every other addictive dangerous drug.
Let me reiterate that. Nicotine is a drug, and cigarettes are a delivery device for that drug. If you really want sanity, then 1) If you smoke, stop now. Not stopping makes you pretty damn stupid. 2) Stop letting the tobacco lobby have their way in Congress. Insist that it be regulated just like any other drug, based on an honest assessment of its risks and dangers, not on what makes misguided twits think they're cool.
...posting anonymously.
Grow some balls and put your name to your ranting or STFU.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
Does it violate the warrantee if you vacuum or air jet your machine before bringing it into the shop for warrantee repair?
is whyyyyy I am a PC. :)
Where is your OS X now? Muhahahahaha...
...and told buyers about the limitation on the warranty before they bought the device then sure.
But it is obvious some buyers of Apple products will be smokers so if they're prepared to take their money then they should ensure they can honour the warranty that's part of the sale.
It's Apple's problem to solve any health and safety issues.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
So an APPLE in the hands of a smoker is ONE BAD APPLE?
And that means it is going to ruin the bunch?
Ok, actual question is... if a computer from a smoker's house is considered toxic, and the computer is therefore "not repairable" by Apple (if the warranty is void because of OSHA concerns then they wouldn't repair it for money either, right?) and so the computer is instead thrown into a land fill with all the other toxins Apple used in the electronics to make it work in the first place... meaning, don't fix a smoker's computer so we can sell another unit while polluting that much more... and who says environmentalist can't make a quick buck?
Smoking is not a requirement, people can easily live without it and many do.
Living isn't a requirement either. There are only necessities for specific outcomes, those outcomes aren't necessary either.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
There is no law requiring businesses to maximize profits, at least in the US. There is, er was, the requirement that in order for a business to be granted the limited liability of a corporate charter it had to serve the common or public good.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
And furthermore, the claim that working on such a thing might constitute a bio-hazard might not be far-fetched:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091119121300.htm
as a recent study shows tobacco harboring several human pathogenic bacteria.
I can't say whether this new policy is in line with their warranty, but I don't see how anyone would make a case that it's discriminatory even where smokers are a protected class. They are targeting the smoke itself, not the smokers. If you're a smoker but you don't do it around your computer, or it just happens to be reasonably clean, you're going to be fine. If you don't smoke, but you like to store your computer in your chimney flue, they're still going to refuse to work on it.
On the other hand, smoke residue is hardly the most dangerous or disgusting thing anyone has had to deal with on the job, and using OSHA as an excuse seems pretty weak. If they just acknowledged that they're going to treat excessive smoke exposure the same way they would excessive heat or humidity, that would seem entirely reasonable.
Having worked on smokers' computers, I can say that the only time this would cause a problem for the repair person would be if it was utterly, obnoxiously prevalent in the computer. Normally we couldn't tell if the computer came from a smoker's home. But I've seen a few -- only a very few -- where there was literally ash in the casing. I have no idea how it could have gotten there, either, but there you go, and it *reeked*. Seriously reeked; I think only one other tech could bring himself to work on that computer for more than a few minutes. Once someone brought in a laptop and it was painfully obvious the moment they cracked the lid that they smoked pot; I don't think you could hang around the laptop for long without getting an incidental buzz. For a tech who might be allergic to pot smoke, I don't know if it would cause problems, but it certainly wouldn't be pleasant.
So, in summation: When the person complains that their computer had it's warranty voided because they're a smoker, I would hazard a guess to say that they were a VERY heavy smoker and the computer was suffused with ash and reeked. This is NOT the computer of an idle, cigarette-now-and-then smoker, but someone who more or less chain smokes while browsing the web. It probably made working in the GR next to impossible.
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
I don't think Apple's concern is for the health safety of the technician. It rarely is.
I think Apple has it written that it has the right to classify the devices used by smokers as being operated in extreme environments.
Specifications for engineering do account for a quality of air standard being implicit to the design. Industrial installations (areas known for pollution) will require industrial filtration for computers. IBM, Compaq, HP and others used to sell such as they knew their boxes would be in such situations where dust and or ambient pollution would be sucked in and deposited over the fans, heatsinks, electronics. Induced humidity and heat stress, fatigue and failure on electronics used to be very common.
Being a California company Apple forgets that other places and regions of the world are not yet so "progressive" to eliminate all forms of indoor pollution as their legislatures.
Computers & electronics used in medical Offices, Centers, Hospitals, etc where airborne disease is commonly encountered ought to also be equipped with industrial grade filtration and the mice/keyboards regularly decontaminated and eventually changed out and safely recycled.
Also I've been known to use dust masks for servicing inside computers deployed at schools, archives and warehouses due to possible hantavirus conditions. I
Considering the exaggerated cost vs. functionality of Apple products (similar to Sony or Ralph Lauren), people who are snubbed by a blatantly self-serving company shouldn't be offended. What people should be upset by is the militant stance of non-smokers and how "PC" it's become to cow-tow to them. This attitude is just another example of trading freedom for security. Fuck your security. If you can't protect yourself from ignorance, it shouldn't be my job to give up my freedoms to shield you. We've become a species governed by reverse Darwinism, only the weak get what they want. Reach deep and find your balls (metaphorical), stop bitching and forcing your opinions about how I should live my life.
You should be free to live with your own mistakes and triumphs. Just don't expect me to suffer for them.
Apple has an obligation to repair broken parts. There is no warning or clause that covers cigarette tar and it's effects on the inner-workings of your computer. Also, will they repair your computer of it's damaged by a virus or willful acts of ignorance?
Take some fucking responsibility.
"Helping to keep you two steps ahead of the Thought Police!"
While I think the reaction is over-the-top (and giving Apple techs that degree of personal control dangerous), nicotine tar does have a destructive impact on computer components, and it is very hard to non-destructively remove. Somewhere around here I suspect I still have photos I took 25 years ago of an IBM-PC-XT-class system that had been used by a chain-smoker: the interior was heavily coated with nicotine tar, damaging a number of components and making it virtually impossible to remove to prevent further future damage, especially when there was no expectation that the exposure would stop. The entire interior had a sticky yellow tinge. I wound up showing the interior to the customer and factually pointed out that the same compound was also coating his lungs, and he seemed rather persuaded by that visual demonstration.
There was a lesson here for these two puffers to learn, but they chose to ignore the lesson and transfer the blame for the consequences of their poor choices to others. They should be giving the mirror a smackdown, not Steve Jobs.
As a former Genius Bar technician, I can say first-hand how disgusting it is to open up a white computer that's yellowed and stinks of cigarette smoke. They're terribly gross to touch and work on.
While I can't offer any evidence of it actually being a health hazard, it's certainly not a pleasant experience.
Well, third-hand smoke is considered by at least some docs to be a direct cancer risk.
The NYT doesn't say anything about peer reviews of the study though. Now it does list some of the substances that so called third-hand smoke contains but it doesn't mention what vehicle exhaust contains or the poisons that food is sprayed with. Nor does it say anything about the emissions from the paper industry.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
would they have to honor the service contract if the laptop was exposed to abestos, lead dust, or <insert favorite toxic agent here>? most people i think would say no.
just because billions of people willingly subject themselves to nicotine each day doesn't change the fact that it is a carcinogen. IMHO, and in the opinion of most western countries, the average person has a right to avoid being subjected to carcinogens.
yes, flame on with counterexamples, but in general that's the way things are moving.
Although it should actually be, "blame the people." Back in the 1980s the people of California passed a resolution (Proposition 22?) that required that anything that led to exposure to carcinogens or substances known to cause birth defects had to be labelled. This is one of the reasons wine bottles no longer have lead foil over the cork: some lead atoms could travel from the foil to the glass and then be picked up by the wine when it's poured and then on to the drinker where those one or two lead atoms could then possibly cause a birth defect. Give me a break!
I also remember in the late 1980s that where I was working tried to accommodate smokers by collecting all of the smokers into a single area where they could puff away without exposing anyone else to second hand smoke. That got shot down because the room the smokers moved to would be so contaminated with cigarette smoke that it would be considered carcinogenic to the people who did the cleaning.
Sounds like Apple may have valid legal reasons for not working on equipment that has been contaminated by cigarette smoke.
Only soft of OT plug for my favorite movie: "Thank you for smoking". Absolutely great movie.
Cheers,
Dave
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
Ben
I hope they can't figure out that I've been masturbating near mine. Sure that means the possibility of exposure to a bit more vibration than normal and the probability of bio-hazards but those aren't listed as voiding the warranty either.
A long time ago, I worked at a retail clone shop. We spent most of our time assembling custom clones, or upgrading or repairing machines that people brought in.
We could ALWAYS spot the smoker's machines. They were filthy, disgusting -- inside and out. Inside the machines, the fans continuously pull air across heat sinks -- and these become smoke filters. A tiny little accumulation of dust or lint sticks to the tar in the air, and quickly accumulates *more* dust or lint, which accumulates more tar (it's sticky). Pretty soon you have this absolutely FILTHY sludge stuck to everything. Even just opening the machine, you get this foul stuff stuck to your hands. We had a pair of dishwashing gloves that we would use, when we had to open these machines and work on them. The stuff accumulates most on heatsinks, but also on any part that sticks out (like a coil or a socketed chip) or has a sharp edge (like a PCB/card).
I cannot describe how disgusting it was. I haven't even mentioned the smell. Every time you disturb one of these clusters of accumulated funk, it released this NASTY smell, like some drunk, dying smoker at a bar just flopped over on you and breathed his last in your face. We used to take the machines out into the parking lot, and take a few cans of canned air, and spray most of that crap out. We used to do it inside, but we learned the hard way that then the funk STAYS around.
I think Apple is completely justified in not wanting its employees to work on completely foul machines. I imagine no one would expect Apple to repair machines that people have vomited in, taken a shit in, or otherwise have fouled. I don't see why cigarette smoke gets a pass, just because a lot of people smoke.
Even an argument about this is ludicrous! These "repairman" should be taken to small claims for not doing their job and if Apple officially backs this BS - they are off their rocker! This must be a joke! This has got to be a joke! I am literally laughing at Apple, or any Mac user who still imagines that he/she has a "reasonable" company behind them! Sorry - this would be my last star to drop Apple off the cliff.
just sniffed and said: "I love the smell of class-action lawsuits in the morning. It smells like stale cigarette smoke and filthy lucre."
Well... actually, no.
It's a privilege that the community (in the guise of government) can (and has legitimate interest to) regulate as long as you're driving on roads the community pays for and maintains. You, as a community member, probably have some input to the process, but in a healthy community, that input will be scaled to an appropriate, and fairly minor, fraction. Ideally, this would be proportionate to the amount you contribute to cost and maintainance.
OTOH, If you drive 20 miles to work on your own privately owned and maintained roads, it's a matter of personal freedom. And strangely enough, it's legal in most places without license or other community interference.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Liberal? Apple is liberal? Apple stands on big government not on the liberal idea of small government.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I thought all electronics were smoke powered? You know, that's how you can tell it's broken, is when you let the smoke get out. At least for me anyways, I know that once I see the smoke come out of my electronics, they're toast.
Lots of city streets are narrow, and often devoid of wind meaning that the stench of smoking remains there for quite some time as other people walk by.
If you want nicotine, there are many of other ways you could acquire it which wouldn't harm those around you, such methods are also going to be far more efficient because most of it won't be floating away from you.
Yet it's perfectly fine for you to operate an exhaust-belching motor vehicle in the same confined street areas, poisoning those around you with your harmful fumes.
I suppose you could have walked or bought a Segway, but I'm going to insinuate that you're too inconsiderate to do that, and ignore the fact that maybe, since it's not against the law and it could be your preference, that you'd rather drive.
Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
You are promoting SATAN WORSHIP by these people!
They can't even SAY or READ the name of GOD, lest Divine presence be invoked!
Only SATAN is forbidden to CALL on GOD by Name! Don't fix JEW computers!
Look at this and tell me that you wouldn't run screaming if someone asked you to repair that.
Ever hear of cans of compressed air? Ever hear of dust rags? I've had air intakes and fans get about as dirty without smoke. Also it looks like there may be pet hairs in some of those photos. Look around my apartment and I bet you'll find a lot of cobwebs yet nobody smokes inside. One tech told me I could tape a coffee filter onto the fan's air intake vent to filter the air.
Should there be a Law?
I hate it when people call tar build up "nicotine stains", the stain is not caused by nicotine.
They are deeply addicted to nicotine, and nicotine is a proven killer. But smokers, just like crack heads, will go to all lengths to rationalize their drug addiction. Ask any former drug addict or alcoholic about what drug is the hardest to kick and they will tell you that it is nicotine / cigarettes.
Republican leadership = Idiocracy
The question that arises is, to what degree is the rest of society responsible for ensuring that the world is toned down enough so that your defective breathing apparatus is able to cope?
Society spends a great deal of time, effort, and treasure on things like ramps, braille signs, "there may be peanuts in this" warnings, and even running public schools at a speed that ensure a good deal of the left side of the Gaussian has some sort of chance of coping with the curriculum.
I think perhaps the right solution here is for you, the defective one, to medicate or perhaps breathe through something that adjusts the air to your unusual needs. Not for us to cleanse the air of microscopic particulates, cat hair, pollen and so forth.
The idea that society is responsible for making the life of a person with defective parts "the same" as everyone else is very much idealistic, and in the end, impossible anyway. It's your problem; you should have to deal with it. Not everyone else. People are only as equal as they are; and in your case, you're unequal in the "what can I breathe" arena. It boils down to the idea of either removing many interesting things from the air in general, or adjusting your specific intake appropriately. I think the latter is both the most practical solution, as well as the one that addresses the reality of the situation: You're defective. Others are not. You're the one who needs to be making adjustments.
OTOH, To the degree that public behavior is a direct general health risk to others - which smoking is generally understood to be at this point in time - such public behavior should be restricted to sets of consenting and informed individuals. Smoker's clubs and bars; one's own home (presuming said home only contains consenting and informed individuals); areas where other people are virtually certain not to be affected (out on a lake or ocean, etc.)
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Slashdot odds are that this story turns out to be pure crap. It's always been a little bit of an issue here with a submission from a blog or other less than solid source ca while uses a Slashdot "editor" to pound the Accept button while shrieking about rights and information needs to be free and so forth, and we discover later that there was some other issue, a misunderstanding, or no issue at all. Now that many have run out of I Hate Microsoft steam, Apple and Google are the natural targets.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
I've done a hardware repair on a client's computer who smokes.
Never again.
Plus, if you're ever going to sell your house, taking it outside is a good idea. Buyers can smell it, and you can't get that smell out without replacing every soft surface (carpets, etc.) and fresh paint in every room.
Guess what? The vapors from that paint may be toxic as well. Is Apple refusing to repair Macs when it was in a room that was painted? Actually many things outgas Volatile Organic Compounds, including Macs.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Likely there is a clause in the warranty that voids if the computer was used in a damaging environment. Could that be what apple is saying? eg. Smokey greasy kitchen, dusty factory. When in college, the 70's, I fixed TVs. Heavy smoke kills those older sets. BTW: cockroaches do to. I have vacuumed inches of roaches from the inside of TVs. ug.
Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
but I think it should be something that is illegal to expose other people to
How about if I make it illegal to expose people to your car's exhaust as well? I use to ride my bike 100 to 200 miles a week and I hated having to breath in car exhaust. Or take alcohol, though it's one of the most dangerous drugs it's legal. When the US made it illegal by passing Prohibition all it did was make organized crime rich and powerful.
I think I'll sue the thousands of drivers that passes me or I pass today on my bike ride.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I call BS on this one. Every biker I know says a car handles quicker under emergencies than a bike. You can find demonstrations of this fact on the internet.
Take, for instance, the Imola circuit, where both Formula 1 and motorcycle races have been held. Fastest lap on four wheels: Fernando Alonso in 2006 at 1:24.569. Fastest lap on two wheels: Michel Fabrizio in 2009 at 1:47.736. There are several other circuits that have both car and bike races, compare lap times on any of those and you will see that bikes are *much* worse on the curves.
You don't really have a bike, do you?
I strongly suspect the concept of marriage has been around since the idea of chattel slavery was coined, which would be well prior to the use of Latin.
Slavery in general was known in Shang-dynasty China (1500-1066 BC) and ancient Egypt, and is recorded in the Babylonian code of Hammurabi (1750 BC), and the Sanskrit Laws of Manu (600 BC.)
For most of history, marriage bore no resemblance to a union of equal partners, as the optimists like to pretend it is today. The woman was subject to the man in almost every instance, and her options, if any, were severely limited.
I have no respect for the institution at all, personally.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Why not? Isn't hygiene a proper public concern? Is it not a factor with spread of disease? Isn't smell a direct indicator of hygiene? I don't see any problem at all with handing out a solid fine if you appear in public and bring bodily stench with you.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
a really bad idea.
So is dust.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
The accounts from 3 smokers in unrelated incidents who gave their side of the story as being "wronged," and their accounts suddenly indicate the policy of Apple?
Sheesh. Nice "journalism."
Without looking at the machines, who here can really know the condition they were in? Maybe the darned thing WAS so full of ash and soot that it was hazardous to work on? I didn't get a look, did you?
they need to be put on an island where they can go extinct!!!!
(and personally, I'm OK with that being tomorrow), smoke is part of the "ambient air"
Until the day comes when driving vehicles is banned accidents causing injuries including disabilities and deaths will be a part of life. I smoke and I am willing to pay more for health insurance because of that but I am not willing to pay because I ride a bike and have been hit by vehicles as well as have breathed their exhaust. And yes, I am one of those who was disabled after being hit while riding my bike, I survived a Traumatic Brain Injury or TBI. And yes survived, while I was in a coma the docs told my family it would be a miracle if I lived. Well if I could I'd argue with those docs, they were wrong. Instead of it being a miracle my life has been a living hell.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
and if you spill it on your computer it will void your warranty.
So, does going to this site void the warranty?
Just like dropping and cracking a laptop case will void the laptop warranty, use in a smoking environment should void the warranty too. It's abuse, plain and simple, and manufacturers should write something into their warranties about exposure to excessive smoke.
My ex was a heavy smoker. We set aside a room for him to use his computer in and generally smoke himself to death - I even installed an exhaust fan in the room.
I would open up his computer about once a year and clean it out with a paintbrush and a shop vac. It was always clogged up with brown dust. His monitor screen was tinted an amber color, and when you'd wipe it off it was sticky.
You could actually see lines on the DVD drive drawer from the airflow (smokeflow). His DVD drives were lucky to last two years due to smoke coating the lens.
The color laser printer in that room one day reported that its laser unit had failed. I took the printer apart and discovered that all the optics were coated yellow-brown and the laser unit's photosensor couldn't see the laser beam any more. I cleaned the lenses and mirrors off with solvent and that got the printer working again.
Using electronics and computer equipment in a smoking environment should be a condition that would void the warranty - it was very clear that most of the problems with his computer equipment were caused by exposure to tobacco smoke.
Putting moderation advice in your
Comment removed based on user account deletion
See this? Right there? THAT is why we have to push for smoking bans. Because of idiots who think they're not hurting anybody but themselves. Because you care so little about what other people think and you're so ignorant of the damage you're causing, we have to pass laws to punish you because "gosh, I shouldn't do that" isn't enough of an incentive and "hey, this is causing other people problems" never even crosses your mind.
Worked at a PC Repair shop in the 90's and the laptops were the worst. Can't understand how people use a computer with a layer of dirt thicker than the gunk on a scratch-off ticket. I still had to fix it but it was always shelved until I had no other choice.
I bough a dead iPhone and when I opened the box I was overcome by the smell of tobacco. The entire device was yellow, and when I tried to wash the boards in some mentholated spirits, it turned the spirits yellow too. I couldn't have it in the house, it stank so much. The tar ended up all over my finger tips as well. If I was a repairman, I'd ask to have it cleaned before returning it for service.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Apple uses these on iPhones. Not Macs though (yet).
If a car came into a repair shop with the hint of drugs or some other extremely foul odor in the car, no one would not fault the dealer for refusing service. What's the difference?
I remember when people screamed about no smoking sections in restaurants as being unfair. I think refusing to work on computers that wreak from cigarette smoke is the next logical step. The employees who refused the service should have filed a complaint with osha and then made the issue more viable. No offense but cigarette smoke makes me very sick. I have worked on computers for years. To work on a computer with smoke residue makes me start coughing for at least a week. It is a shame that the owners of the computers were so ill considerate to the employees not to genuinely consider their health risks. Smokers smell worse than people with body odor in my opinion.
All that being aside I see more problems with computers of people who smoke than than those do not. Computer companies should amend their warranties to reflect that.
Second hand smoke leads to cancer. Just because someone wants to smoke does not mean i have to put up with it by breathing smokers exhausts fumes left on the items they own. Someone needs a reality check. again: Smokers smell worse than people with body odor in my opinion.
Regarding the city streets ... I would argue that nobody forced the drivers of vehicles to drive around other people, but they do, and often without caring who it offends or even makes sick. And *that* is why people fight back and pass laws about driving cars in public places. It's because drivers egregiously abused their rights and harmed others.
See how easy that was? Come down off that horse of your's, it's too high.
Apple users prefer LSD right?
I am vehemently anti-smoking, but this sure seems clear to me: if a smoke-contaminated computer constitutes a biohazard, then it is Apple's responsibility to protect its workers, not the consumer's responsibility. Apple knew the job was dangerous when they took it! Encountering smoke-contaminated computers is all in a day's work.
Apple with its sales increasing has some good money...so go for it..sue them.
This story is about laptops. And cigarette smoke can outright kill laptops.
Even the lowest quality desktop PC will have better airflow than the best laptop.
Most cases it is a single fan, single air-path solution.
Also, in most cases components are jammed as close to one another that any airflow you do get is being pumped through openings that are couple of millimeters wide at best.
And have you ever seen a heavy smoker use a computer?
Most of the time there is a lit cigarette in their hands while they type, or it is right next to the keyboard burning away in an ashtray.
Naturally, after a month or two there is as much ash inside the keyboard as is in the ashtray.
And on a personal note...
I was asked once to "fix up" a laptop from a smoker's home. Mother and son, smoking about 2-3 packs a day.
Recently, laptop started turning off by itself or it would slow down to a crawl. Considering it was riddled with spyware I decided to simply format the drive and reinstall windows.
Half way through the installation it just turned off by itself. OK... that is not good.
Restart the installation, this time paying very close attention to what is happening. And again, almost at the same spot - it turned itself off.
Only this time, it is obvious that it is turning off after its DVD has been working for couple of minutes copying files.
I pull out the Windows CD, and that thing is HOT.
I check the back, and I see that the single cooler this laptop has is housed behind a metal grating - presumably to keep out the dust.
Only there is not a single hole in the grating any more. They are all plugged up by some black substance - that turns out to be tar once I've scraped some of it off with a needle.
So, I've unplugged the holes as best as I can and then vacuumed all openings on the laptop for about 10-15 minutes.
Now, Windows installation made past that point and there sure is (warm) air coming out of the laptop - but still it turned itself off about 10 minutes later than the first time.
I had to take a large cooling fan, point it directly at that laptop and turn it up to the maximum setting in order to install Windows.
The laptop worked just fine - unless you used the optical drive AND hard drive AND processor at the same time for too long.
As it was a mostly Office and Email machine most of the time, turning off was no longer an issue after the cleaning I gave it.
Although, I imagine that inside it is probably covered with tar and gunk.
I've had CDs and DVDs returned to me that were clearly boxed and unused for months - that had a thin film of cigarette smoke gunk inside.
Wherever the air gets in - smoke gets in. Wherever the cigarette smoke gets in - tar gets in.
IMHO... Had that computer been a Mac, with its components crammed in as tight as possible to make it even thinner and elegant and with its slot loaded optical drive (for even more elegance) it would have burned out months ago.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I used to work in an Apple repair shop during high school, and we hated working on smokers' comps. We toyed with the idea of denying service, but we needed the money. In this case, the second-hand smoke thing is kind of ridiculous to worry about, but it is truly nasty in the machine. Seeing the fans and parts with a tar coating all over them was sickening; I'm sure it shortened the life (of the comp and the user). If those were the indirect consequences, think of their lungs! I'd take the cases out back, hose them down, and use some kind of special cleaner on the MLBs, etc. Nasty!!
Yeah, if smoking was so dangerous, we'd be having 438,000 premature deaths a year cause by smoking, that is 1 in 5 deaths. Oh, wait, I'm told that's exactly what's happening.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
So, I smoke in some bar/restaurants where it is still allowed here (not ready for next year's ban in NC...), and would the dishwashers not be allowed to wash the ash trays, or plates, or glasses or anything else my smoke touches? OSHA violations? I don't think so. Moreso to that point, if you opted for a career as a bartender I'm sure you knew beforehand that yes, people smoke at bars. Smoking and drinking go hand-in-hand, so when the ban takes effect they'll be safe from my smokey plates and I'll be at home, spending much less on drinking out.
On the Apple - I'm fortunate that I'll never be taking my iBook to them, as its far out of warranty and I've opened it numerous times to bring it back from the dead (currently, a piece of Red Stripe case keeps the GPU in place enough for it to run). I recently found new employment, and I was considering starting a savings fund for a new Mac, but I'm now torn between getting the extended warranty, which is soooo pricey, or not because they won't service a smokey Mac. Maybe I won't even buy one now, I like having protection and service options for my equipment, and I like smoking. I'm not gonna stop anytime soon, and that means I'm not gonna stop computing and smoking too. How would they know though aside from smell? If I have a wood-burning fireplace am I at risk? Are they going to get a piss-test from my Mac? Do their employees not ride in smokey cars ever? Do they sanitize subway seats - I'm sure smokers sit on the seats from time to time.
Once again, Apple disappoints by being terribly lame when they don't need to be. I love my Mac, but it may be the last one I ever own.
I fix all sorts of computers. I smoke. I HATE getting a computer to work on that the person has been smoking at it. It is gross and disgusting and NASTY. I smoke outside and never by my computer. I spend good money for my house and for my computers and for my car - why in the world would I want to pollute my nest! Smoke outside people!! Keep your self and your living place clean!
I do not blame Apple for not working on your computer. CompUSA charges EXTRA in some stores to work on a smoke infested computer - they take it outside and clean it out so that they might be able to work on it. They (and myself) blow all of that NASTY crap out of the poor computer and personally, I clean everything that I can with alcohol to get the grunge off (except for the drives!) so that I don't have to smell them! PUKE! And yes, I charge extra for working on a NASTY computer wether it is smoke or pet hair and dust. A can of air is cheap! Clean out your computer once a year and keep it running forever....
CHEERS - I am going outside to smoke...
and I smoke weed, and on a good day, may be tripping balls on LSD.
If you were female you wouldn't be just wetting your pants....
It's an Apple .. who gives a fuck .. buy a PC like the rest of the world.
The issue is that there is a breach of contract going on, not that apple hates smokers. Thats fine if you want to the void the warranty due to the damage caused by smoking. However, if you're going to do that, it better damn well be in your contract, which it doesn't appear to be in this case.
The thing is, many electronics vendors DO void warranty work for harsh operating environments. If your mobile phone gets just damp enough to turn the litmus sticker red you are SOL. If it can be determined that dust or temperature extremes were the root cause of failure then many devices are not covered.
Besides that, from my own personal experience, tobacco smoke residue has to be the second most hazardous substance on electronics I have encountered (the first being corrosive sulphur dust). I have seen computers in coal mines covered in black soot that were much less affected than computers from point of sale systems used at pubs when smoking was allowed there. At the mine computers easily lasted twice as long with simple maintenance with an aerosol dusted can. NOTHING could clean that nicotine and tar sludge out of those smokers computers!
I am actually surprised that, with all the conditions that can void a warranty on electronics, that anyone would be surprised that smoking would void a warranty. The only thing that I find surprising was the really lame excuse that it was a biohazard. Apple should just be honest and say the real reason: tobacco sludge in your computer made it break, and since you put it there it isn't our problem and you have to pay for it. I guess since some heavily addicted smokers have thin skins such a policy should be clearly but diplomatically pointed out at time of purchase.
As a former Mac Genius, I've denied coverage for an iMac machine that I'd say was 'smoked to death'. It was so pungent and strong, we could barely stand being in the closed-off Genius room (were we did our work). It was awful, and that was before we opened the machine. Cigarette smoke is tends to make the usual dust-bunnies way worse. They stick to everything. The machine was completely stained brown and had succumbed to horrible over heating. All the vents and passages were clogged with crap. I can't post the photos, but anyone who has worked on computers I think would agree. It was just disgusting.
Even the employees who were smokers agreed with the decision. I felt sorry for the customer - I really did - but ultimately he agreed and understood my decision (he wasn't particularly happy, but wasn't upset either).
I have nothing against people smoking for themselves. But its unreasonable to ask or force people to share in it.
'/dev/wit' is not available.
That's not from smoking, it's from dust and dander in the air. His father probably has pets.
negative. the orange color is a pretty solid indicator that this is a smoker's house.
a house with pets will have larger hairs (and plenty of them!), those are more like fibers from carpeting.
sure, clean houses get dusty computers, too, that's just the nature of computers because of how air flows through them. a house that is well-maintained will have very fine, soft dust (highly processed by vacuums).
not photograph-able: the sticky-to-the-touch quality of that orange dust. uugghhhghghghgh
my shop does mostly PCs, and we will also not warranty hardware problems on parts with exposed circuit boards (or fans) when they're coated in that gross residue - for both neglect-to-the-equipment and this-is-gross-you-can't-pay-me-enough reasons
Men can use vibrators too. cf: Bill O'Reilly
You can work in environments with extremely dangerous stuff and OSHA is completely fine with it. All they require is that the dangers are disclosed and marked, and that employees have the requisite protection from those dangers. If tobacco residue was a health hazard (it isn't), then all you'd have to do is provide whatever protective gear was needed to mitigate it. Gloves and a mask, probalby.
That's all OSHA is about. It isn't about making sure everyone works in a clean office environment with no dangers in sight. It is about making sure that people are aware of the dangers in their work environment and have access to the equipment and training needed to mitigate them.
Many people here have this "Well you can't make workers work with hazardous materials!" attitude. Really? Then where do things like car batteries (which have lead and sulfuric acid) come from? Where do your computer chips, which use all kinds of chemicals to make, come from? If you said "Some third world country," you are wrong. Intel, for example, has the majority of fabs in the United States. So how's the work?
Well what OSHA says is that employers can't expose employees to hazards unknowingly, and without proper training and protection. That's all. What this means is you CAN be exposed to hazards so long as:
1) The hazards are noted. Things such as proper signage for the types of hazards, markings for areas with dangers ans so on.
2) You are trained in those hazards. They give you a course and materials that say "This is how to work safely in this environment."
3) You are provided with safety gear to mitigate the hazards. So a helmet for a construction zone with falling object hazards, protective gloves for a caustic hazard and so on.
That's all that is required. Your employer just can't send you off to a dangerous situation with nothing.
So, in the event a computer with smoke residue was a hazard (it's not) then they'd simply need to make sure this was known, and proper protective equipment was provided. At that point, their workers can't sue. They can quit if they don't want to do the work, but they'd have no standing for a lawsuit. So long as the dangers are stated, mitigated and trained for there is no problem.
Nothing is as bad as dried ramen sauce
I know. I can't stand driving behind a smoker or going to historical sites that were historically smoked in. Even if it's been a hundred years it just gags me up.. Whatever. I tell people I smoke so they won't think I'm you.
it completely ignores smoking's enormous cost to society. Right now a genius doctor is studying how to cure a completely avoidable form of lung cancer instead of researching a naturally occurring one. Right now food costs more because land is being used to grow tobacco. Right now gas costs more because trucks are burning fuel transporting smokes.
"But smokers pay taxes" you'll whine. There's a deference between money and resources. Money is an abstract and unlimited concept. Fuel, Land and Doctor's time are not.
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That's kinda the point of society. We get together and agree on common ground. So far, the common ground (that isn't making billions peddling smokes) is pretty dead set against the things. Personally I can't wait for smoking to be stamped out. It infuriates me that there are people w/o enough food to eat in this country while my tax dollars are going to tobacco subsidies. Because your 'legal pleasure' sure needs free money from the feds...
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This is A-Grade bullshit. I have been a chain smoker for five years. You could probably tarmac a small freeway from all the crap that has fallen into my keyboard. But there is no tar whatsoever on my heatsinks or fans. I just cleaned them last week ( after five years ) and there is dust, yes, but no tar.
The most disgusting computer I ever saw was one kept in a screen-printing factory with a concrete floor. Grey dust 2mm thick over the whole motherboard. Can people refuse warranty service on computers because they don't like your carpet?
Take your anti-smoking FUD and stick it somewhere else.
I work at an Apple authorized repair/reseller shop in WA. When we receive a heavy smokers unit 1) it stinks 2) the nicotine crystallizes on the dust/cobwebs inside the computer. These webs are nasty yellowish color and if a tech gets a bare hand in the crap, the smell sticks with you for a week.
I don't believe you for a second. Your statement may look good for slashdot, but one would expect all electronics to fail because of smoke. Are TVs, VCRs, DVDs, PVR's, fridges, sound systems, game systems, microwaves ovens, clocks, etc., failing because of smoke? Of course not.
Olrik (non-smoker)
"The outgassing" isn't smoke.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST
fuck you and the car you drove here in - you're inflicting the pollution from your car on me, and I'm not wearing a face mask because you won't cycle. You cause environmental damage to the buildings with your shitty car, and you're inflicting ALL of us, on the sidewalk, in the restaurants, on the beaches, in the office buildings, with your selfish attitude and behaviour with your car.
How does that switch work for you?
"(cigarette) smoke turns into dirty-looking sidewalks from the tar"....
shit you're kidding me, right? Easy enough to put those outdoor ashtrays back in place, and your problem's solved.
Car drivers egregiously abusing their rights and harming others - you're all ASSHOLES, and I'm going to SIK the GUMMINT on you BASTARDS ---- WWAAAAHHHHHHH !!!!
not one of us has seen the machine in question, it could have been so "smoked" that it was unhygienic. not to mention that a lethal dose of nicotine is a mere 70mg. let's say they washed the machine, there might be enough nicotine on it to kill a man.
GP was talking about smoking and the non-damage has caused to computers, in his own experience. Computers don't get cancer.
But they do get a tar build up.
An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
I just unpacked new iPod and I found new EULA: "Unpacking your computer from org box is a voilation of the following: {list of 123 bullets, incl. 12 crimes i 59 from anti-terrorism act}. Gov't has been notified already (as by buying you have intended to): {list of 123 bullets, incl. 12 crimes i 59 from anti-terrorism act}.". BTW: EULA was inside the box.
Oh, the poor smokers. They only want to be left alone and for the rest of the world to completely ignore that they are filling the air around them with poisonous gas. This is a crusade, I tell you! Everyone has the right to poison his environment as he sees hit, and the right that his environment totally ignores that! The oppression must end! Free poison for everyone!
I applaud Apple for standing up for their employees. I don't know what kind of internal lobbying it took, and for how long, but it is a great step forward for smokers to get some feedback on what they do to the world around them. As adults, you should take the consequences of your actions, and take them like a man instead of like a crybaby.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I don't know a single person who'd buy a mac, who doesn't smoke a shit ton of weed.
I spent many years puffing away in front of my computers, and I have to admit I didn't always blow the smoke away from the equipment. My wife killed my netware server by cooking chickens in the oven and the chicken fat smoke killed the fan in my machine and it overheated... There is something to be said about blowing smoke into sensitive electronic gear, especially floppy drives and hard disk bearings. Just my two cents...
The Consumerist article cites exactly two instances in which an Apple Store claimed that the warranty was voided by second-hand smoke: in April 2008 and "a few months later" (no date given). It doesn't exactly seem to be a major or ongoing problem with Apple's policies on repairs.
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Wow this is scary. All you people and your legalities make me laugh. Apple is the computer epitome of the liberal agenda. If it was up to Obama, all government workers would be forced to use MACs. Apple is a communist company. Iv never appreciated any of there business practices. This is exactly the type of Liberal direction our country is headed. Wake up you fraging Comeees, there is no such thing as a perfect world. You will never be able to create one with out making slaves out of us. And I have in my possession what it takes to prevent you from enslaving me. There is a war coming in this country. Guaranteed.
Most of those devices don't have fans designed to move large amounts of air through them.
Look, if somebody has made their computer totally nasty by using it as an ashtray,
1. That should void the warranty because customer gross negligence damaged it... you don't blow particulate matter into a computer!
2. If the computer has fine soot all about it, don't touch it.
I suspect that the computers were saturated with cigarette smoke, and There should be a way to charge the customer for rediculous clean up... 40 dollars an hour plus materials for Personal protective equipment.
Some goggles and a mask and a special cardboard box with venting -- vacuum attached...
I do feel sorry for the people who contaminated their computers...
1. They are such dumb asses
2. They probably are about to loose a lot of data, and should have an option to pay to have the damn thing cleaned.
Apple should make a note in their legalese... unless they already have something that covers it...
certain Exposure to particulate matter may void your warrenty, and or have a break-even cost to clean price associated with it.
Please use [ informative / summarizing ] SUBJECT LINES
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I am so glad I never started smoking and encourage others to quit, but there is nothing right about this. Smacks of yet another corporation doing anything it can to NOT honor their commitments. That is more disgusting than any smoker could ever be.
And I know how bad smoking can be, once looked at a house for sale, with the three people living there, all three smoking as we were going through the house, probably in a lame attempt to hide the fact that their house reeked of smoke. Very unusual for people to be in the home when a Realtor is showing their home to prospective buyers. And one of the two of us had asthma, so we were sensitive to potential breathing issues in homes. The upper third of the walls, in all rooms of the home, were a burnt brown-orange color that we guessed was from nicotine. Needless to say we were in and out of that home real fast. Even if we could somehow strip and clean the walls, we were not convinced that we could successfully clean the duct work from that much nicotine buildup, ugh. Obviously this example is on the less than 1% extreme side for smoking, trust me it was disgusting. As awful as that was, Apple's stance on not honoring their warranty is more reprehensible to me.
Even with that negative experience and being a non smoker, I still can not see how any corporation can welch on their obligations (warranty) based on smoking alone.
OSHA violations my behind. They could at least remove the PC from the offending environment and work on it in a cleaner place.
I am sick and tired for corporations enriching themselves at the expense of consumers. If this article is true, something tells me it is, Apple is on the same list with Health Care Companies, Telcos, especially Cellular companies, Insurance Companies, Financial Companies, Hospitals, Banks, Credit Companies (all types), Oil Companies, Cable Companies, add-your-favorite customer-no-service-company here.
To protect yourself from a corporation, use RipOffReports.com and check them out. Unlike the Better Business Bureau were a company can be a sponser and have negative reports removed, with RipOffReports, the company can (and should) respond, but the complaints, even after satisfactorily being resolved are NEVER removed.
I once checked out the top 10 banks in the country...all of them had complaints in the multiple thousands, not just a few. The complaints from customers of greater than 3 years, 5 years and 7 years are particularly telling.
Same with the Wireless ~ Cellular companies. There was NOT a single good player in the group, all of them have hundreds, if not thousands of customer-no-service-complaints! If they cared about you and me, they would attempt to make it right. Since they do not it is obvious that they believe that they do not have too.
All the industries mentioned above ASSUME (for me they assume wrongly) that as consumers we have NO CHOICE and we will just switch from one bad company to another.
If you only have two choices, you have no choice.
You always have choices and if you can not find at least three options, you are not looking hard enough or from enough different persectives. As for RipOffReports.com, I expect companies to have a few complaints, its how they respond to those complaints that matter to me. What excuse is acceptable, not to even respond, to not even attempt to make it right with the customer, well there is NO EXCUSE on the company's part for that neglect of customer service. Obviously they are counting on all of us being SHEEP and not caring what they do to our neighbors. Hold them accountable, your children and your friends children will thank you one day!
There is only ONE solution, all of us, to a person, must stop doing bu
Give in to the urge. You're fscked anyway, more or less.
http://www.frozencpu.com/cig-01.html
means turning in Jews in Nazi Germany. Playing by the rules means turning in dissenters in Soviet Russia. Playing by the rules is unrelated to justice.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Get a shop vac then. Cats and woodworkers also have gummy computers. BOY! some pussy ass techs at apple!
You havent fixed computers if you havent fixed dirty computers!!
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You can't just decide to not service something your company warranted because they smoke. Just about every piece of electronics including appliances, stereos, TVs, cable boxes etc etc etc have fans in them and would have the exact same result. I am not a smoker, but does that mean smokers should be automatically void from every warranty for everything in their house??? Come on people, you're going a little far here...
If these Apple nerd workers are so concerned about it affecting their health maybe they should look elsewhere first, like the greesy burger they had for lunch and the gallons of Mt Dew they down in a day.
I have worked on many gross PCs and laptops, and Ill take a smoker's system any day over someone who has a disgustingly dirty house and in return a disgusting computer... Or how about when you find some roach or other bug carcasses inside?
Ridiculous, I'd like to see an environmental toxic screening at the Chinese production facilities for Apple's computers. Aren't there likely to be many "toxic" substances inherent in these devices? Making a political statement through your company's warranty policy seems a little hypocritical and just...silly.
I agree being a tech myself, who has to work on a smokers computer can be disgusting to say the least. I feel like vomiting inside the case and leaving it there, to prove a point.
However, I do not agree with Apple's tactics, I would on Apple's part say they fall under a category where there must be a tech that smokes himself, and feels nothing wrong with working on a computer that has been in a smoke filled house.
This would be the less abrasive attitude, however Apple seem very snobby these days.
I would send them to a tech who smokes, and in the mean time, I would also make sure to change the warranty agreement, because this one they just might lose big on.
I hate smokers but they are humans like us (non smokers) and still deserve the guarantee they have when they bought the machine.
The majority of motorcycle crashes are caused by ... or idiots in cars.
Obviously made up statistic. Are you forgetting all those motorcycle "lane-splitters"? Also, the percentage of motorcyclers I see speeding far exceeds the percentage of car drivers I see speeding (especially excessive speeding, i.e., more that 20 MPH over the limit).
If you are out in public you assume the risk of being outside where your neat liittle world ends...
As does yours. How about I rub up against you while wearing a suit covered with sharp spikes?
Someone in the car in FRONT of you is smoking and you are annoyed? Seriously? Get a life,
The REALLY annoying part is how they flick butts out the window - heaven forbid they dirty their car ashtrays the way they dirty their lungs. Worse are the ones who empty their ashtrays at a convenient curb. Nasty shit.
I'd never thought of the idea that the smoke, tar and other byproducts of a smoking habit could gum up the inner workings of the PC (heatsink and such). What's next? Cat owners? I know I pop mine open at least once a month to clean out cat hair stuck in the fans, sink and so forth.....
Go Apple! This is good!
_____ There seems no plan because it is all plan. -- C.S. Lewis
I had been avoiding running a Hackintosh out of some latent guilt and a feeling that the Apple hardware really was better anyway. But if it now has no warranty (yes, I'm a smoker, yes it's a horrible disgusting habit, yes, I should quit) then I feel my guilt slowly seeping away. Sorry, but this is ridiculous PC bull.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
There's a failing video card in a imac sitting right here
Graphics failed in the MacBook Pro I'm typing this on. When it did I headed down to an Apple store and made an appointment with the Genius Bar the same day. The tech ran some tests and said the graphics needed to be replaced. He then went into the back and came back a few minutes later. He said they were short on the part so he'd have to order it, and when I asked he said it's be in in a couple of days. He then said I could take the MBP home, after rebooting it was working again, and they'd call when the part came in. Because of a repair backlog, there are 4 Apple stores in my area but one closed for remodeling, it took a week to get it back. I later found out that if you pay for Apple Pro Care, which costs $100 a year, you're put at the head of any line.
That failure was the first of two hardware failures this MBP had, and it failed more than 16 months after I got it. The second failure was the DVD drive, after 2 years. I bought two other Macs used. One was a Mac SE 30 I bought in 1992. They were made in 1988-89 and mine lasted until 2000. A few months after it died I bought a PowerMac 7300/200, which were made in 1997. It died in 2006.
I've also bought PCs new, one with Win 95, one dual booted NT4 and Redhat Linux, another had ME, and one came with Linux preinstalled. Except for the NT4 Workstation/Linux PC they had had to have both the hard disk drive and the motherboard replaced before they were one year old. The Win 95 PC was a Gateway, the WinME an HP, the workstation was from Microway, and the Linux PC was a store brand.
Whereas every Mac I had lasted more than a year before I had trouble with it of 4 new PCs I bought only one did not have trouble during it's first year, the Microway PC. Unfortunately its CPU is a DEC Alpha and I was unable to install much software, DEC's FX!32 software emulator wasn't as good as DEC billed it as, on it so I haven't used it much.
I guess I'll send it in at the last day of warranty :\
Grit your teeth and take it into a store. Then if they say they need to order the parts to fix it take it home and have them call you when they come in. You might be without it a few days but at least you'll get it repaired.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Have you ever worked on one of said machines? I have coworkers that get sick from just touching the nicotine-covered parts. It's disgusting to handle tar-covered components, and the smell is overwhelming sometimes. Plus, the warranty is voided by the damage caused by smoke in some cases. It is as good for things like fans and optical drives as it is for your lungs. Sometimes the machines are so gummy that it's basically a loss unless each piece is throughly scrubbed clean with solvent. I'm not exaggerating.
Or cell phones, for that matter. I have opened my share of the devices and if not because I saw the owner smoking I couldn't tell one cell from another.