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Apple vs. Microsoft Multi-Touch Mouse Comparison
blee37 writes "This is a side-by-side comparison of the Apple and Microsoft multi-touch mice. It includes video demonstrations of using the mice in applications, first-person shooters and 3D manipulation. It also has new photos of the internals of all the mice."
Problem with this, like with many other touch screen like devices, is that you don't get physical feedback when you're clicking or scrolling or doing anything. There's a reason why you actually need to push the mouse button a little bit so it clicks. Not much, but it actually feels like a click. Keyboard presses need to be the same way too - you need the feedback.
Another example is the scroll in mouses. My Logitech MX Revolution mouse has both seamless and non-seamless mode that you can activate for different apps. Seamless mode was activated by default for IE and I had to take it off, because mouse scroll also needs to "tick" and feel back when you're scrolling. The Apple video shows that you can scroll faster by moving your finger rapidly - guess what, you can do that with a normal scroll too, just by rapidly firing the scroller to either direction (the logitech software actually releases the tick for a bit so it works even better)
Other thing to consider is how quickly the touch area gets dirty and less functional. I sometimes like to eat a great three story cheese bacon hamburger filled with majonese, chipotle ketchup and delicious cheese with deep fried french fries, topped with a cold beer and chocolate ice cream with strawberries and chocolate dipping. Lets face it, the touch area is going to get dirty. Will it function the same way after that and can you clean it as easily?
I don't think anyone is denying that Microsoft R&D can churn out some interesting concepts from time to time, but there's a big difference between shipping an actual product with most of the details worked out, and merely mocking up a few prototypes that are nowhere close to being ready for actual sale. I'd be curious to see what prototypes Apple came up with before shipping the Magic Mouse. That'd be a more interesting comparison.
Which multi-touch mouse do you want the most? Or are they all gimmicks?
Nice card-forcing there.
I like Microsoft's basic wheel mouse on Windows and Mac, and HP's 3-button optical mouse on X11.
No, seriously, they post crap like that on the Internet?
This is a comparison of a finished product that is shipping today, against a number of prototypes, none of which you can buy anywhere and most of which you will never be able to buy. Most importantly, none of which are finished and ready for use. We're all living in the tech world. We've all seen at least a hundred videos of prototypes that we were really looking forward to - and the final product either never arrived or wasn't half as good as the demo had led us believe.
Make a comparison when they're both shipping. Everything else is dumb, and creating false expectations.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
"I'm a mac" (Justin Long touches himself)
"I'm a PC" (John Hodgeman touches himself)
Personally, I'd buy one that provided solid Linux support. The Apple mouse looks pretty, and sounds functional, but I haven't heard of any Linux drivers. Anyone?
So instead of having only one mouse button, Apple is getting rid of all of them?
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Show me on the doll where Microsoft and Apple multi-touched you inappropriately.
This Logitech mouse combines the best of both worlds (2D touch-sensitive scrolling but with actual buttons for tactile feedback). It's been around for half a decade (since 2004).
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Cordless-Optical-Notebook-Mouse/dp/B0002SAF3M
I'm sure they've released better models since then, but that is one I've actually used.
It would have made more sense for the article to compare the Magic Mouse against against the Logitech mouse since it actually exists, instead of Microsoft's prototypes.
Better known as 318230.
Johnny Chung Lee turns one into a fortune telling palm reader.
Nullius in verba
If you love the "touch" aspect of the Magic Mouse, an alternative is the Wacom Bamboo Touch tablet.
It's roughly the same price as a Magic Mouse, it supports gestures just fine, the area makes it more comfortable than a mouse and best of all, you can also use it as a tablet.
{{.sig}}
So with my current mouse I can rest my finger on the mouse button, and press down when I want to click.
With these new mice, when I want to click I have to lift my finger up from the surface of the mouse and then press down (if the video in the article is indicative of how it functions). I think constantly lifting my finger would become tiring.
Apart from probably gaming, I have difficulties to get a grasp of the advantages of the concept, especially if compared to a multi-touch tablet.
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Should have been the title.
The Microsoft designs are all still prototypes. I would say that one of the two companies have "introduced" a multi-touch mouse. The other is currently researching a way to copy it (as always) and quite possibly playing with themselves. This design makes it look like you are holding a nutsack
On the bright side, I have a magic mouse now and will say that it really is a whole new (awesome) experience.
From TFA:
...and by "tame" we mean "already living peacefully in people's houses." And by "radical" we mean "awesome in theory."
Dude, without any kind of tactile feedback, you have to look at the keyboard, instead of looking at the text you're typing. How can that not be a problem? Reasonable people can disagree over whether that means tactile feedback is "nice-to-have" or "critical", but let's not pretend the issue doesn't even exist.
MS: displaying prototypes of multi-touch mice. Apple: actually selling one. That right there is sort of a microcosm of the whole industry.
The title of this comment should be "How do these mice prevent finger movement from causing mouse movement", but due to the limits /. places on comment titles....
OK, so let us say I have the Mac Mouse, and I swipe my fingers over the surface to do a horizontal scroll of a document.
* How do I prevent my finger motion from moving the mouse itself, and thus the pointer of the mouse?
* Does the mouse have such a high coefficient of static friction that the CoF between my fingers and the shell * the force my fingers apply is too small to break the mouse loose?
* What does that imply about normal mouse usage?
** Will I lose the ability to move the mouse by small amounts due to the stiction?
** Will I have to completely change my grip on the mouse to transition from mousing to swiping?
www.eFax.com are spammers
... how often do you click, anyway? If your finger would seriously get tired from being lifted a millimeter off the mouse and then letting it fall back... man, see a doctor. If you can't manage the effort involved in lifting your finger occasionally to click, I'd hate to see what happened when you have to actually TYPE something.
I'm sort of lukewarm to the whole mighty mouse concept myself, but I can't see this as a serious objection to it.
From TFA:
Ok, can't agree with this one. Since then we've added the scroll wheel, which was a huge improvement in mouse technology. If you don't believe me, try going back to a plain two-button mouse, and then work with a document bigger than your screen. You used to spend your life moving back and forth between the scroll bar and the text. We've also, for the most part, done away with crappy ball mice in favor of the light tracking ones, which eliminated the sticky mouse problem.
Multi-touch may turn out to be a big deal, but it's certainly a stretch to say that mice haven't improved substantially since '68.
So here is the deal: I ordered a Magic mouse and after an hour of use I put it back in the packaging and sold it to a colleague.
Why ?
The idea is great, the functions are not. Not being able to pinch, rotate and zoom without a key is one (stupid) thing, considering that the mouse can track 4 fingers.
Accidental actions (scroll mostly) is annoying. A button or ball moves when you move it, this thing tracks every touch, that annoyed me to hell.
Having no 3rd button however is an absolute deal breaker. I would live with a 3-finger touch, or 2 finger tap, but the lack of buttons just made me pack it and sell it.
And do not get me wrong, I use the Mightly mouse and several Logi trackballs and only Mac aluminium keyboards (except on my Macbook)...
I think the hardware is awesome but the drivers absolutely SUCK!
Just my 2c.
ps: the optical touch tracking looks interesting on the videos... maybe I would try that next... .or just stay with my logis.
The gestures are performed while you're holding the mouse, so it doesn't move.Try swiping your fingers around on your current mouse, I bet you can do it without moving the mouse or your grip (I can). For the record, I have tried the Magic Mouse, and it seemed to work okay, but I'm not swapping it for my Revolution MX.
* How do I prevent my finger motion from moving the mouse itself, and thus the pointer of the mouse?)
* Does the mouse have such a high coefficient of static friction that the CoF between my fingers and the shell * the force my fingers apply is too small to break the mouse loose?
Yes, that seems to be the case. I find I'm actually still holding the mouse when i you my index or middle finger to scroll, so the mouse really doesn't move. However, even just dragging my finger over the top the move without holding it doesn't cause the base to move.
* What does that imply about normal mouse usage?
** Will I lose the ability to move the mouse by small amounts due to the stiction?
Apparently not. There seems to be very little friction on the top-surface.
** Will I have to completely change my grip on the mouse to transition from mousing to swiping?
Probably depends on your grip, but my guess is no.
I did find i had to adjust my grip a bit for better ergonomicis. With my old mouse, I it further back. The magic mouse I tend to have my hand so my fingers are almost all the way at the top, and i don't end up apply much/any pressure on the sides. But I also had to raise my mouse surface, since the magic mouse is very thin, and my wrists were up too high, causing me some discomfort.
I find it a very comfortable & functional setup, but best is to try one if you can find a place that has a new imac on display. I was skeptical how well it would work, but impressed enough I have one at work & one at home.
Main downsides:
- can't separate right & left click (problem in some windows games)
- no middle button (had to map option-click to middle for my X11 apps)
keyboard "touch" technology finally applied to the mouse.
How do you compare an actual shipping product with what amounts to conceptualizations a person can't even get their hands on unless they happen to work for Microsoft Research (and even then they're not fully functional mice)?
This is just unbelievably silly.
#DeleteChrome
Thanks, Sean
Perhaps some custom audio or thermal feedback would be in order, but
there is no mistake in your statement of fact; there is a very fundamental
and well-integrated reason for the skilled practice known as touch-typing.
It is an ubiquitous method of input using what pop culture takes for granted:
Standards.
There is nothing to FEAR but NOTHING itself; and I fear there is a whole lot of nothing going on. --scorpivs
I have some carpal tunnel problems. I also like to play Age of Empires which is almost unusable without a right mouse button. I've tried it before with Apple wired and wireless mice, and it's just painful. To right click, you have to lift your index finger so that it senses that the click is from the right side; otherwise, it registers a left click.
I can't imagine these multitouch mice being a whole lot better. If you have carpal tunnel problems, you might want to stay away. If you don't, be careful, because you might sustain a repetitive strain injury.
My experience precisely.
Hmmm, thermal. Like, it gives you a small burn when you click the mouse?
From TFA "Sliding your fingers sideways on the surface of the mouse causes you to strafe."
OK, but what if by some wacky twist of fate you want to strafe and shoot at the same time? Sure, you can use the Fire key on the keyboard, but what if you want to strafe, shoot, and--call me crazy-- aim your weapon at the same time?
Some of the applications looked pretty cool, but I'll stick with a programmable 5-button mouse for FPS.
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
The title of this comment should be "How do these mice prevent finger movement from causing mouse movement", but due to the limits /. places on comment titles....
OK, so let us say I have the Mac Mouse, and I swipe my fingers over the surface to do a horizontal scroll of a document.
* How do I prevent my finger motion from moving the mouse itself, and thus the pointer of the mouse?
* Does the mouse have such a high coefficient of static friction that the CoF between my fingers and the shell * the force my fingers apply is too small to break the mouse loose?
For scrolling, it works the same way as any mouse with a physical scroll wheel. You steady the mouse with your thumb on one side, and your pinkie, ring, and (possibly) middle fingers on the other, and stroke with your index finger. You don't end up knocking your mouse around when you poke at the scroll wheel, do you?
** Will I have to completely change my grip on the mouse to transition from mousing to swiping?
Well, the multi-finger back/forward gestures are a bit trickier, since your index and middle fingers moving together aren't as dextrous as your index finger alone. The "back" gesture is pretty simple--you lift your pinkie and ring fingers off, but leave your thumb to counter the force of the swipe--but the opposite "forward" gesture is darned near impossible for me. Luckily, you don't navigate forward as often as you go back, but still.
The video on the Apple site helps.
Having played with one for a brief period:
- Normal tracking and clicking is no different from any other mouse
- Both X and Y scrolling is very natural and intuitive.
- The optional "scroll with momentum" is annoying and distracting to me, but might be familiar to iPhone users.
- Right clicking requires lifting your left finger. Easy enough to get used to, but not natural.
- Back and Forward gestures are cool, but would take some serious effort to get used to.
- The mouse is very low and flat.
Try it out... Go to an Apple Store (or a BestBuy) and try one.
The static friction breaks easy when you are holding the mouse in a appropriate way, and fine movement is easy, but it holds its place well when you swipe. 2 finger swipes are done without letting go, so they're a non-issue. other swipes, where you remove your hand, require a very light touch. Initially, you may move the mouse occasionally, but the software does a good job interpreting a swipe vs a movement and leaves the cursor stationary, and with a few trys, you'll realize the conact required for reaction is very slight, and easy to do without disrupting the mouse's position. Even still, the static friction is enough the mouse rarely moves unless it's intended...
Since the mouse requires a physical left or right click, swipes are not interpreted as clicks. The only thing I'm waiting for is a software update to enable the "third" click (double click) and I'll buy one myself.
There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
Hmmm, thermal. Like, it gives you a small burn when you click the mouse?
Well, ok, it was a shot in the dark lol, but
...Unless you're just pulling my finger.
the interesting benefit of implementing some
'standards' would be a thing called 'safety.'
Maybe a 'cool sensation' would sell the idea better, or
if you're a gamer, crash 'n burn?
HECK YEAH! Thanks!
There is nothing to FEAR but NOTHING itself; and I fear there is a whole lot of nothing going on. --scorpivs
lol wut?
lol wut?
For example, Nintendo resumes mass-production of
both the left-and-right *Powerglove* (in pairs, this time, if
such a small detail could be at all advantageous)
and augments the so-called 'unwieldly monstrosities'
with *smell-o-vision* -- thus, a very real - and effective - Grip of Death.
Now, pull my finger.
See? No cheese on MY screen!
There is nothing to FEAR but NOTHING itself; and I fear there is a whole lot of nothing going on. --scorpivs
Have you tried an electronics contact cleaner like Blue Shower? It's a little pricey, but works well for cleaning electronics.
http://mouser.com/ProductDetail/Techspray/1667-8S/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvJqaFk9BIiv7vkq027uiu6ZZJKZ6s0jAI%3D
I really have no idea what is even being discussed anymore. Umm... *car analogy*
wake me up when something from MS appear on the shelf. I use non apple mice all of the time, but running an article that compares a real mass produced mouse against a series of design exercises is a bit silly, verging on dishonest.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Good point, Michael, but some one or some thing, rather, is going to have to concede open-source technology has not been invented, yet, and the Foundation for Law and Government has been caught between the driver's seat and the necessary *kit analogy* improvised 'ergonometric' modifications.
That, or the flux capacitor needs a whole new interface.
There is nothing to FEAR but NOTHING itself; and I fear there is a whole lot of nothing going on. --scorpivs
Uh... imagine you have a Ford Mustang, and I have a 2CV. And we drive towards each other at 88mph. And someone invents a mouse that gives you electric shocks.. uh... nah, I'm lost too.
improvised 'ergonometric' modifications
Thanks, K.I.T.T.--
This detachable hover-mouse on the shifter fits like a glove.
There is nothing to FEAR but NOTHING itself; and I fear there is a whole lot of nothing going on. --scorpivs
...just remember to put it in one of those new, patented-technology hermetically-sealed slide-fastened plastic food bags before
(zap/fizzle)
...using it to type with your thumbs, underwater, Michael.
There is nothing to FEAR but NOTHING itself; and I fear there is a whole lot of nothing going on. --scorpivs
I'm not sure that the Apple Magic Mouse would be suitable for use in Linux. From what I've heard, there is no middle-click support. I don't know whether that is a limitation of the hardware or of the Mac OS X driver.
Anyone else find that "Arty" MS mouse should really go by the name Mickey mouse?
Alexey
I heard all of the negative reviews about the Magic Mouse and was weary to buy it, but after using it for a week I love it. I think it is an upgrade over the might mouse cause it eliminates the dirty scroll ball issue. I haven't had accidental gesture problems and i's very slick. It is a little pricey, that would be the only negative thing I can say. Other than that I love it! I think people expect everything apple puts out to be revolutionary and sometimes thats not the case. It is just a mouse,,,, therefore, for the life of me I cant figure out whats the big deal?