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Prison Terms For Spammer Ralsky, Scientology DoS Attacker

tsu doh nimh writes "Alan Ralsky, the 64-year-old dubbed the 'Godfather of Spam,' was sentenced to 51 months in prison on Monday, the Washington Post's Security Fix blog reports. According to anti-spam group Spamhaus.org, Ralsky has been spamming since at least 1997, using dozens of aliases and tens of thousands of 'zombies' or hacked PCs to relay junk e-mail. Also sentenced — to 40 months in jail — was Ralsky's 48-year-old son-in-law, Scott K. Bradley, and two other men named last year in a 41-count indictment for wire fraud, mail fraud, money laundering and violations of the CAN-SPAM Act." And eldavojohn writes "19-year-old Dmitriy Guzner, Anonymous member and Scientology DDoS attacker, received one year and one day in jail for his admitted crime. His sentence could have been a maximum ten years. According to the Church of Scientology, Anonymous has harassed and attacked them with '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'"

328 comments

  1. Church of Scientology by Paranatural · · Score: 5, Funny

    Scientology members complaining about being harassed is like Mormons bitching about missionaries knocking on their doors.

    1. Re:Church of Scientology by jim_v2000 · · Score: 0, Troll

      When was the last time you were harassed by a Scientology member?

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    2. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I was going to reply to this, but I'm going to have to have my lawyer check the gag order first.

    3. Re:Church of Scientology by mknutty · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, but on the scale of evil bastards, I'd rather spammers get comeuppance than the scientologists. Especially if the spam included DoS attacks, hacking, and bomb threats. For most people, scientology is just a bad joke, but spammers are screwing with the everyday lives of pretty much everyone out there. And one year in jail is not enough disincentive.

    4. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Spamming doesn't ruin lives.

    5. Re:Church of Scientology by bmajik · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When was the last time you were harassed by a Scientology member?

      When I woke up today and used the internet.

      Scientology was the first organization I am aware of that successfully forced an internet anonymous email service to dig up and disclose information about its clients. All over copyright claims. I am referring to anon.penet.fi, the famous anonymous remailer we all used in the 90s.

      In the early days when nobody cared about what "we" did with the internet, we knew that for every asshole that was up to serious evil, there were 10 smart guys who didn't care what your deal was, but hated assholes and could route around them. There were jackasses, but technology always beats jackasses.

      Then the law came, and all of that got a lot harder.

      Today we have the ability to make "highly" anonymous network connections but we rely on a small group of very VERY dedicated people to make that possible.. [people with the wherewithal to run TOR exit nodes, for instance].

      Those entities [be they CoS or rotten governments] who want to destroy free speech must not be tolerated by us.

      I remember my senior year of college when I got a takedown-letter about hosting DeCSS. And you know what? I folded, because I had a good job lined up that required I _not_ be a felon. Freedom of speech lost a little bit and I helped give it away, because a warm bed and a normal life are more convenient than principles and freedom.

      Our enemies know that, and they attack the weakest of us not to get rid of one or two, but because of the chilling effect it has on the rest of us. No one can escape the law forever, and thus the law, which is supposed to protect the freedom of one man from the encroachments of another, is used as their tool for enslaving us to their desires.

      I'm a fallible man and most of us are. That doesn't mean we don't deserve to hate the entites that continue to attack us by perverting the institutions we designed to protect ourselves.

      I congratulate the "moralfags" [as they are called within anonymous] who are fighting back. Sometimes, it comes at a high cost, like with this guy.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    6. Re:Church of Scientology by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      Neither does CoS without the subject's consent. AFAIK CoS isn't kidnapping unwilling people and forcing them to become members, so it's kind of Darwinian in principle. I personally believe the tax-exempt status for CoS should be revoked. Then they'd vanish overnight. But CoS exists because there is a demand for such perverse entities, and when they're gone there will be another. The problem isn't L.Ron's merry bunch of wackos, it's the cult member tendency (read mental illness) of so many people in our society.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    7. Re:Church of Scientology by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

      Tell that to those who fall for the Nigerian scams that are spammed to everyone.

    8. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was the last time you were harassed by a Scientology member?

      Just the other day, actually. Many Scientologists are bloody awful at keeping their love for LRH out of everyday interaction.

      All I want to do is get on with what I do; I don't want to go learn management as taught by LRH, and I think it's worse than cheeky to try to force me to do it. I am not interested in relearning my discipline as taught by L Ron Hubbard. It's creepy to inject your love for a pulp scifi author into everyday life, let alone into the everyday lives of people - colleagues and people with whom you do business - who don't subscribe to your UFO cult.

      Sorry. But it's true.

    9. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well considering that the way Scientology became tax free was to DDoS the US Court systems, with 10k+ nuisance lawsuits, I would agree. I hope Xenu eats them all!

    10. Re:Church of Scientology by Weaselmancer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      AFAIK CoS isn't kidnapping unwilling people and forcing them to become members, so it's kind of Darwinian in principle.

      No, but as soon as you join they can kidnap you.

      --
      Weaselmancer
      rediculous.
    11. Re:Church of Scientology by Suzuran · · Score: 2, Informative

      Spamming didn't murder Lisa McPherson.

    12. Re:Church of Scientology by Xaositecte · · Score: 1

      They've got a booth at the mall, it's up there semi-permanently as far as I can tell. They're fairly loud proselytizers.

      I kinda've want to go in there and take one of their stress tests so I can fuck with'em, but haven't yet.

    13. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those are scammers, not spammers.

    14. Re:Church of Scientology by stumblingblock · · Score: 1

      Using a metaphor of camping in the wild, spammers are like mosquitos and CoS is like a grizzly bear. Which would you rather see disappear if you could only choose one?

    15. Re:Church of Scientology by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear!

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    16. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I'm going to check this box "never" for you then?

    17. Re:Church of Scientology by digitig · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It wasn't the CoS that was on trial. I've been on a jury that felt that the "victim" of a crime should have got time too, but that didn't change our conviction that the accused had committed the crime so we had to return a guilty verdict.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    18. Re:Church of Scientology by mknutty · · Score: 1

      Look, scientologists are a bunch of assholes. No doubt. But vigilante harassment is the wrong way to deal with them. Massive spam, DoS attacks, bomb threats, etc. are never okay. And the penalty for them should be much longer than a year, regardless of who the victim is.

      You think these guys are heroes or something? Do any of these attacks help the people being duped by the CoS? Are they going to bring down the organization? No, not even close. They're just going to make life really hard for some poor brainwashed secretary answering the phones, or some poor IT guy trying to make a living. And of course the attackers will get to congratulate themselves on their own cleverness, which is the real point.

      Every sentencing likes this sets precedent both legally and in people's minds for the future. And a 1-year punishment for DoS attacks and death threats is setting the wrong kind of precedent.

    19. Re:Church of Scientology by digitig · · Score: 1

      But the scam is spammed.

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    20. Re:Church of Scientology by digitig · · Score: 1

      Neither, because if either did then it wouldn't be the wild?

      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
    21. Re:Church of Scientology by Abreu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When was the last time you were harassed by a Scientology member?

      When one of my University teachers became a scientologist and hijacked the whole class for months to discuss Dianetics as the "new science for management and self-improvement for success in the 21st century".

      Problem is that since Scientology is not registered as a religion in my country, the school's heads were not aware of the inappropriateness of her actions and it took over three months of protests from several students for them to find out and sack her.

      --
      No sig for the moment.
    22. Re:Church of Scientology by Suzuran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the law refuses to step in and do justice, then it falls to the people to pick up the slack.
      Just because the government wants to play the role of Chamberlain does not mean Hitler should not be opposed.
      Scientology is a patently evil organization and should be opposed by any and all means.
      I do not see Anonymous as heroes, I see them as ordinary people doing what needs to be done.

    23. Re:Church of Scientology by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Its not a DoS, it's a DDoS. Basicly a bunch of people (many underaged) in a home computer with LOIC, not masterminds of crime. They haven't killed anyone or did it for profit (intent is a great part of law); getting one year of jail for rapid firing HTTP requests seems harsh to me. I would think the $37,500 he will have to pay would be enough.

    24. Re:Church of Scientology by selven · · Score: 1

      So stealing 25 cents from every single person in the US is acceptable? Just because your crimes aren't noticeable to each individual victim doesn't mean that the damage doesn't add up on a national scale.

    25. Re:Church of Scientology by Dark_Gravity · · Score: 1

      Spamming doesn't ruin lives.

      Eddie Davidson's family would disagree with you.

      Furthermore, the increased costs in labor, bandwidth, storage and filtering technology to combat the actions of greedy, thieving spammers count as ruining lives in my book.

    26. Re:Church of Scientology by Steve+Franklin · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      --
      Hic iacet Arthurus, rex quondam rexque futurus.
    27. Re:Church of Scientology by bmajik · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Correct.

      And because I've never died, I also do not carry life insurance of any kind.
      Because I've never been raped, I don't pay attention to my surroundings or the people nearby.
      Because I've never been hit by another car, I don't wear a seatbelt.

      Of course, everything I said above is false.

      Even though none of those things have happened to me, they've happened to other people who _are like me_. And as a result, I've modified my behavior and in some cases suffered a monetary loss.

      This is what is known as a "chilling effect". A great tragedy befalls a handful of individuals, but all individuals realize it could have just as easily have been them. This causes massive behavioral change on a wide scale.

      This is exactly the pscyhology used by terrorism, infact. The goal of terrorists isn't to kill all people or even certain people -- it's to kill enough people to effect behaviorial change on a large popupation.

      The goal of Scientology [and the RIAA, and other agents of censorship that have the power of the state behind them] is similar. They know they can't get everyone or even most people. But they don't have to -- getting a few people now and then will persuade many others into changing their behavior.

      I haven't done a detailed study, but everytime there is a CoS article on slashdot, a LOT of the comments are posted by Anonymous Coward. Why is that? Why are people unafraid to openly criticize the catholic church -- often with blatantly vulgar remarks, and yet so few are willing to do the same against the CoS?

      Fear. Fear is the difference. If the CoS wants to rule its own members via fear, that is lamentable and a great reason not to associate with the CoS. But the CoS wants to rule non-members and specifically CoS antagonists via Fear as well.

      I don't think it is unreasonable to despise an organization that has already engaged in activities designed to control me via Fear.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    28. Re:Church of Scientology by Chyeld · · Score: 2, Informative

      Neither does CoS without the subject's consent. AFAIK CoS isn't kidnapping unwilling people and forcing them to become members, so it's kind of Darwinian in principle

      Hmm... I don't agree.

    29. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      When was the last time you were harassed by a Scientology member?

      When my husband divorced me after the center discovered that while he was a Scientologist, I wasn't. You see, they don't allow you to befriend (unless you're trying to recruit), much less marry, non-Scientologists. This was a number of years ago before most people, including me, knew what a fraud and cult this "religion" is.

      They will convince the convert that anything bad that happens to him is because they're not being a good scientologist. My husband was just laid off during the 80's downturn in oil. Although he did get another job right away, it was obvious they impressed on him that being with me was causing all these bad things to happen. Our marriage had been happy until this happened.

      One reason Travolta kept refusing to admit his son was autistic, is because (any mental illness or perceived by the church as mental illness) is believed to be caused by their contact with "non-clear" (non-Scientologists). Which means they often blame mental illness on the family.

    30. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite often. That's what happens when a relative is in the "church" and you almost get declared an SP, which means you can never talk to them again.

    31. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It definately does. I am actually personally aware of Internet Service Providers who went out of business because their mail servers couldn't keep up with the avalanche of spam. You could probably make a pretty good case that it was an evolutionary process -- failed business model, and to some extent I'd agree with it, but spam has definatley ruined a lot of lives. If you don't believe me look at Alan Ralsky, it ruined his.

    32. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
      You mean like this? (Posting AC to avoid the lawyers / C&D order)

      "The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet, 178 billion on average) by mass implanting. He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (Incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged".

      His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc. was placed in the implants.

      When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert. The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development.

      One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.

      In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.

      One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body.

      One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing. You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some small.

      Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error. Good luck.

    33. Re:Church of Scientology by dontmakemethink · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between an enemy and a predator. For a prey to evade a predator is not defeat, it simply buys time to either become tougher prey or a tougher predator. Hosting DeCSS for download was a great way to attract predators.

      And the right to free speech doesn't include the right to anonymity, nor does it include the right to disseminate trade secrets. Not saying you're wrong, just not supported by the constitution.

      --

      War as we knew it was obsolete
      Nothing could beat complete denial
      - Emily Haines
    34. Re:Church of Scientology by jcr · · Score: 2, Informative

      Neither does CoS without the subject's consent.

      Not true. CoS victims include the families of the suckers who join the cult, as well as critics. Paulette Cooper, Keith Henson, Graham Berry, and many, many others.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    35. Re:Church of Scientology by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      Crack cocaine's victims include the families of the suckers who join the cult, as well as critics. Paulette Cooper, Keith Henson, Graham Berry, and many, many others.

      Hmmm.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    36. Re:Church of Scientology by hemp · · Score: 2, Funny

      But what ever you do, do not post the previously forbidden texts or the Slashdot mods will have to delete your posts.

      They do the bidding of the evil organization.

      --
      Skip ------ See the latest from http://www.anArchyFortWorth.com
    37. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was the last time you were harassed by a Scientology member?

      April 19th, 2008

      Granted, it wasn't a major inconvenience for me, and I enjoyed it a little.

    38. Re:Church of Scientology by b4upoo · · Score: 1

      An electronic attack on Scientology might be described as justice.

    39. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, I never found that note in Submachine.

    40. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And do you feel the same contempt for the children of Scientology members?

    41. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      agree! just like doing childish things like throwing tea on the sea.

      We should all wait for the government to act for us!

    42. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      This is what is known as a "chilling effect". A great tragedy befalls a handful of individuals, but all individuals realize it could have just as easily have been them. This causes massive behavioral change on a wide scale.

      You're trying to explain empathy to an individual that is most likely sliding down the sociopathic scale. I share your desire to rally the masses in an ethical movement, but I fear you are wasting your time on this site.

    43. Re:Church of Scientology by shentino · · Score: 1

      Not directly no, but they let other people do that.

      Spammers are in the business of supporting other crooks...the kind that are involved in 419 scams and sales of cheap and possibly counterfeit medications.

    44. Re:Church of Scientology by shentino · · Score: 1

      I notice how you said "refuses" instead of "fails"

      Often times crooks have friends in high places.

    45. Re:Church of Scientology by happy_place · · Score: 1

      Not quite the same thing... seeing as how it's highly unlikely... Mormons love it when missionaries come to their doorsteps. It saves them a lot of trouble.

      --
      http://www.beanleafpress.com
    46. Re:Church of Scientology by Suzuran · · Score: 1

      Or are themselves in high places.

    47. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is an idea. Protest the wrongdoings of the Church of Scientology all you like but do it without engaging in illegal activity whether it be wholesale posting of copyrighted material as occurred in the anon.petit.fi case or malicious ddos attacks on a legal web presence. To the crime, do the time. If this has a "chilling effect" on protest by ddos attack then good.

    48. Re:Church of Scientology by baegucb · · Score: 1

      Moderators cannot delete posts. IIRC, the editors did that in the past about a COS story.

    49. Re:Church of Scientology by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      That's funny, noone invoked Godwin's law (I'm not currently doing so, just noting that noone else did).

      --
      $ make available
    50. Re:Church of Scientology by bmajik · · Score: 1

      Protest the wrongdoings of the Church of Scientology all you like but do it without engaging in illegal activity

      "Illegal" is a construction of the political class, and has no bearing on "right" or "wrong".

      The commission of civil disobedience is one mechanism for changing the law. I think those who choose to go down this path understand what they are in for. It is often the case that people have to lean back and think, "should that man really be in jail over this?" before the laws are changed to better reflect the morality of the day.

      I don't support breaking the law if it does harm gainst another entity. I try to abide by the non-aggression principle. Let's look at the application of principles in this case:

      The "harm" against CoS is that a website received a lot of hits.

      The "harm" CoS has done against individuals and humanity is hard to quantify. We don't know how many people have been murdered or allowed to die via negligence under the supervision of CoS, but I think it is safe to assume it is a non-zero number in both cases. I'm not very well educated on CoS and I am fortunate in that no one I know very well is wrapped up with them.

      We do know that CoS has abused the law to subvert anonymity and freedom of speech on the internet, and while nothing so severe as death, that is harm and it has been done to you too, whether you realize it or not.

      The CoS attacked its critics via copyright law; this is a complete perversion of the law. I'm ashamed of the courts that did not protect these people under whistle-blower or satire type protections. Nobody who was critical of CoS was attempting to profit by re-publishing their protected works, nobody was attempting to derive them of income via the dumping/distribution of their protected works. Rather, the CoS texts were spread so that people can see what a crazy mess of nonsense is really hiding behind all of those hollywood smiles, and what kind of lunatic insanity real humans with families and loved ones are getting caught up in.

      I don't feel that protesting in the manner done thus far against CoS is either excessively harmful to them or the initiation of force. I think it is justifiable retaliation against an actor that has abused the protections of the state and perverted the intention of the law, and i think getting the courts and more individuals to realize that is going to have some rought spots -- like a 19 year old going to jail when you'd be hard pressed to figure out which individual he committed an aggressive act against.

      I'm glad there are people that are willing to be martyrs for the ideology of freedom in this fight, and a bit ashamed that I am not currently one of them.

      I figure that there is a non-zero chance that I could get a legal nasty-gram from CoS about my postings here today [and the number of anonymous posters in this and all other CoS articles on slashdot tends to support the validity of my conerns]. Is my concern irrational or justified? Is it right that I ought to worry -- even a little bit -- about my well-being, for having written any of the words I've written in this article? Does that seem like justice to you?

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    51. Re:Church of Scientology by Da_Biz · · Score: 1

      Even excluding the consideration about whether it was just or not, I have a hard time justifying a year-long prison sentence for this. The punishment seems to outweigh the possible harm caused to Scientology.

      A year or so ago, the FBI was asked by CNN if Scientology's claims of bomb threats and terrorist acts by "Anonymous" were credible. The FBI indicated that there was no evidence to this effect.

      By the way, the summary for this article is horribly biased: Scientology has had a long history of making unfounded claims of hate crimes and "terrorist attacks." Ostensibly, this is to deflect suspicion from rather credible publicly-investigated claims that they've got quite the sordid history...

      http://helpexposescientology.com/

    52. Re:Church of Scientology by Suzuran · · Score: 1

      That's because you only invoke Godwin if the comparison to Hitler/Nazis is unwarranted and/or unjustified.
      Besides, my comparison is not between the Scientologists and the Nazis; I am comparing the relationship between Chamberlain and Hitler to the relationship between the governments of the world and the church of scientology.

    53. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You're trying to explain empathy to an individual that is most likely sliding down the sociopathic scale,"

      Your comment does not address what you quoted, is unsupported, and does not make any sense.

      You appear to suggest no one should do a positive act on moral grounds assuming there is an even "better" act to be done on moral grounds. Under that sort of mindset, no one does anything.

      Of course, you also disprove youself by being in this forum, utlizing your time to perform no positive act whatsover. Is doing nothing also better than doing a positive act?

      The moral fags don't get paid to do what they do. Rather, they place themselves at great risk. And they have saved many families over the last two years. Casualties have been suffered. What have you done over this time that is positive to anyone?

    54. Re:Church of Scientology by shentino · · Score: 1

      I have never heard of a post getting deleted.

      The worst that ever happened was a post being censored due to a legal threat of the "censor it or we sue your asses off"

    55. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the right to free speech doesn't include the right to anonymity...

      Clearly it must include the right to anonymity - that should be clear to most anyone after only a little research and thought (sorry if that conflicts with your username). That's not to say that there are not valid reasons, such as slander and libel, to remove anonymity in specific cases.

      ...nor does it include the right to disseminate trade secrets.

      As soon as details of the CSS algorithm were revealed in publicly available court documents, it was no longer a trade secret. We don't know if he hosted a DeCSS implementation after the DMCA took effect, so it might have been illegal at that time, but it would have been a violation of the DMCA, not laws which protect trade secrets. He does use the term "take down", so I'm guessing DMCA.

      - T

    56. Re:Church of Scientology by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      I guess you didn't find it because if Skutnik used that text, he would be have been sued out of his skin.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    57. Re:Church of Scientology by billcopc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If the DoS here stands for "Denial of Scientology", I'd say it's fair game.

      Look at it this way: most Americans of middle-eastern descent or Muslim faith have been steadily harassed and mistreated over at least the past 8 years, even though less than 1 per 100 MILLION have been identified as known criminals, and the supposed Muslim-originated attack on the WTC resulted in 2976 counted deaths. That's two victims for every million Muslims.

      Scientologists' numbers are unknown, but are estimated to be less than 100,000. And yet, they are known to be responsible for at least two of their own members' deaths, an order of magnitude greater than the so-called "Muslim terrorists". So why the hell are we fighting in the middle east, when Scientology has shown to be 10 times deadlier per-capita ?

      Don't even get me started on catholicism :P

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    58. Re:Church of Scientology by billcopc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You lump bomb threats in with spam and DoS, yet I can't recall any incident in the history of computing where spam or DoS directly caused a person's death.

      The core of the matter is there are rampant abuses of civil liberties, and the CoS is a highly visible icon of such abuse. If the CoS is allowed to continue, then we open the door for any and all wacked-out works of fiction to be labeled as "religion", and to benefit from the irrational exclusions and bypasses applied thereto.

      Really, what's preventing me from founding the "Church of Spam" and claiming that UCE is protected religion speech ? We could all worship the holy Tomlinson, and each level of (paid) membership would open up access to secret RFCs until one attains "High Daemon" rank, where the subtle intricacies of SMTP are finally revealed.

      Seriously man, FUCK Scientology. They deserve everything that's coming to them.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    59. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree, although at least the australian government seems to take notice now.
      Australian Senator Xenophon recently called for a parliamentary inquiry into the Scientology organization and a revoke of their tax exempt status in Australia.
      See
      Australian Senator Nick Xenophon calls for Senate inquiry into Scientology

      Please sign this online petition, if you support Senator Xenophon`s request for an inquiry into the Scientology organization:
      Support a Senate Inquiry into the Church of Scientology

    60. Re:Church of Scientology by unixfan · · Score: 1

      If I remember correctly, the Church responded to slander and acted to stop dissemination of what they deemed very confidential and sensitive information. It was not an attack on free speech per say as simply trying to stop theft of intellectual property.

      Indeed people who are harassing others often claim free speech when harassing, which is not at all what free speech is all about. Of course some people are afraid because they are guilty of something, and they don't want others to find out about it and try to shift attention to others. Scientology appears to be this thing you attack when you feel like attacking someone. Largely because it does things differently and has a cloud of mystery because people simple don't know anything about it. Of course we know about Tom Cruise and how overly excited he was about his, then, new fiancee on Oprah.

      The horror claims I read about online, and occasionally in some paper, does not at all match what I have observed about Scientology, and no I don't work for them but I have taken some courses and things. I've observed my daughter become a productive citizen who is no longer shy and stands up for what she believes in, thanks to Scientology. Finished almost top of the whole school. Never mind things like more keys to cities than anyone else, more humanitarian awards than any other. Countries adopting Scientology to rehabilitate criminals, drug users, and it seems to go on and on. The volunteer ministers who fly in to disaster areas from all over helping the victims. It just does not reconcile with these grave injustices that some claim Scientology has committed.

      We hear these horror stories from people who are disaffected and may even have worked in Scientology. When I think of what people do and say about ex-employees, how they try to make themselves look good and the employer bad, that's what I think of when I hear their stories. Talk about fear mongering.

      But we all make that judgment call deciding how much faith we put in what people claim. I choose to stand up for what I think is right and wrong.

    61. Re:Church of Scientology by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Anonymous has harassed and attacked them with '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'"

      He's just getting started. Why stop him now?

    62. Re:Church of Scientology by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are mistaken on several counts. One is that they do imprison people, as described by numerous former members at http://www.scientology-lies.com/imprisonment.html. Some members are kept confined at "Flag Base" without correspondence, telephone contact, or any information from the outside world.

      The other is that the "consent" of many victims of Scientology is not "informed consent". The auditing sessions, well-documented as hypnotic conditioning with a lie detector, are used to condition new members to acceptance of the group's beliefs and claims, and acceptance of the group's treatment, without informing the victim of the genuine costs or the actual potential benefits of the treatment, or the risks of loss of income, loss of family, and in some cases such as http://www.lisamcpherson.org/ loss of life.

      Worse, this cult _preys_ on the mentally ill, at Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, at prisons, and other venues, by offering physical and mental health and fraudulently lying about psycho-active medication and treatments from professionals from behind its front, the "Citizen's Commission on Human Rights". They're nasty: removing their non-profit status would be a good step towards forcing them to open up their books, pay off various court judgments against them, and tracing where the money and the people went. In particular, it would make the "auditing folders" part of business records that could be easily subpoenaed.

    63. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh I see, so stealing a billion dollars from one person is a no-no, but stealing one dollar each from a billion people is no problemo.

      Seems like no one comprehends scale.

    64. Re:Church of Scientology by easyTree · · Score: 1

      We're all gonna look preeeeety stupid if this all turns out to be true :D

    65. Re:Church of Scientology by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      The ends justifies the means, eh?

      No. Gandhi, and Martin Luther, taught that civil disobedience is not an _active_ attack against an oppressor. It's a refusal to participate in the oppression. Both profoundly avoided attacking their oppressors. What Anonymous did was self-righteous attacks by someone not directly oppressed, and it insults those who do a much better job of protest to classify him with them.

      Also note, the spreading of the texts wasn't originally by Anonymous. It was by people like Steve Fishman, and the "SCAMIZDAT" posters on alt.religion.scientology. Anonymous is far too young to have had anything to do with that.

    66. Re:Church of Scientology by easyTree · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure that was enough. She needed help, too.

    67. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I liked the Scientology advertisement featuring Tom Cruise. Not entirly sure it's not on youtube any more...

      Fortunately there's a mirror (just about):
        * http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/3978925/Tom.Cruise.Scientology.Video%5BBanned.from.youtube%5D.3978925.TPB.torrent

      http://voices.washingtonpost.com/celebritology/2009/11/tom_cruise_scientology_need_i.html

    68. Re:Church of Scientology by jim_v2000 · · Score: 1

      Your story is sad, but doesn't answer my question.

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    69. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stealing another's work, or taking and using another's work without permission is only supported by those who cannot understand / or do not wish to understand that property does belong to somone.

      That's what is at stake. The protection of one's own work. When that is defended, whether by the Church of Scientology, or any other group that attempts defend the rights of others in the face of unethical practices, those who steal use any pretext to coverup their theft.

    70. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading comprehension fail.

    71. Re:Church of Scientology by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Point the way to Scientology oil.

    72. Re:Church of Scientology by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      That's because you only invoke Godwin if the comparison to Hitler/Nazis is unwarranted and/or unjustified.

      Not true, this was Godwin's Law at it's finest!

      From Wikipedia, which is of course the canonical explanation for pointless memes on the Internet:

      "The rule does not make any statement about whether any particular reference or comparison to Adolf Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that the likelihood of such a reference or comparison arising increases as the discussion progresses. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact."

    73. Re:Church of Scientology by Suzuran · · Score: 1

      We're talking about invoking the law to end an argument, which is different. When you invoke the law to end an argument, you assert that the comparison is without merit, and if upheld, the discussion immediately ends, whoever made the comparison is forced to forfeit, and their opposition is declared the victor. (Or at least that's the "house rules" I grew up with)

    74. Re:Church of Scientology by indi0144 · · Score: 1

      facepalm.jpg

    75. Re:Church of Scientology by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      But phony bomb threats and DDoS attacks do NOT hurt the CoS, if anything it lets them claim to be victims and shows the attacker is living proof of Gabriels fuckwad theory. If he was standing outside of place where CoS recruits and handing out pamphlets showing their BS is BS THEN he'd be doing some good.

      This guy was just enjoying being a dick at home and using a "cause" as an excuse for his dickish behavior.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    76. Re:Church of Scientology by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well if you are gonna use ranks like "High Daemon" I have the rules you can start your spam religion with. And in accordance with rule 33 I think you are VERY brilliant to come up with the idea, and I will be glad to help you assemble the rules into a really nice book, all for a low 3% of the gross. Remember, Knowledge is profit!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    77. Re:Church of Scientology by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Hey, you can have "Suzuran's Rule"... (which I may note, sounds like a variant of the Dave Barry school of arguments) - but Godwin gets to define his own Law as he likes ;)

    78. Re:Church of Scientology by sdiz · · Score: 1

      Scientologists Force Comment Off Slashdot
      http://slashdot.org/yro/01/03/16/1256226.shtml

    79. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it doesn't seem too easy.

    80. Re:Church of Scientology by JumpSocial · · Score: 1

      Wow! You're from USA?

      --
      Inventor, Artist http://www.Rubber-Power.com
    81. Re:Church of Scientology by sg_oneill · · Score: 1

      Neither does CoS without the subject's consent.

      Well unless your a journalist, ex-member, family member of a dead member, or anyone caught by them criticizing the church. Suggest you do a bit of reading on the subject. Nobody would give a shit about the CoS if they didn't have a huge history of going after non members.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    82. Re:Church of Scientology by rrvau · · Score: 1

      The gaoled gentleman should be released forthwith and honoured with multiple decorations RRV

      --
      "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) H.L. Menc
    83. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As much fun as Anonymous is, their opposition to the scientology cult is about as heroic as a Taliban vs al-Qaeda showdown.
      If either side were to 'win', we'd still have one problem left.

    84. Re:Church of Scientology by Zebedeu · · Score: 1

      It ruined Ralsky's.

      Hopefully.

    85. Re:Church of Scientology by Thiez · · Score: 1

      > Countries adopting Scientology to rehabilitate criminals, drug users, and it seems to go on and on.

      Really? Name two of them.

    86. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about this one:

      Slamming my fist through your body is a no-no, but softly poking a billion people is no problemo.

    87. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, except it's questionable whether intellectual property is actually property, precisely because it simply cannot be stolen, only duplicated, hence your argument fails.

    88. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was the last time you were harassed by a Scientology member?

      I was harassed by a Scientology member, I've been photographed, followed, namefagged and threatened. I've never done anything illegal to Scientology except in their own internal "justice" system. I criticize them, I am an SP in their eyes and if they could, they would pull me out of bed some dark morning and shoot me as Hubbard directed. Is that not enough?

    89. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes you've got to fight to defend what is right. If those 300 Spartans hadn't gone out to defend their land, their homes, and instead tried "civil disobedience" on the Persians, do you really think the Persians would have cared about slaughtering them all? Of course not.

      And why does it matter if someone was directly oppressed or not?

      "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

    90. Re:Church of Scientology by Golddess · · Score: 1

      Problem is that since Scientology is not registered as a religion in my country

      Wow! You're from USA?

      Given the news about the CoS in other countries, I was under the impression that the USA was one of few places it still is considered a religion.

      Or were you trying to make a joke?

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    91. Re:Church of Scientology by JumpSocial · · Score: 1

      I was trying to be funny. :)

      --
      Inventor, Artist http://www.Rubber-Power.com
    92. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your question is stupid anyway, Mr Shill. It doesn't matter if someone was personally harassed days/weeks/months/years ago, or has never been harassed. Evil must be fought, regardless of if it has affected you or not.

      "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

    93. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tobacco's victims include the families of the suckers who join the cult, as well as critics. Paulette Cooper, Keith Henson, Graham Berry, and many, many others.

      Alcohol's victims include the families of the suckers who join the cult, as well as critics. Paulette Cooper, Keith Henson, Graham Berry, and many, many others.

      MMO's victims include the families of the suckers who join the cult, as well as critics. Paulette Cooper, Keith Henson, Graham Berry, and many, many others.

      TiVo's victims include the families of the suckers who join the cult, as well as critics. Paulette Cooper, Keith Henson, Graham Berry, and many, many others.


      And yet we still allow all of those (some with age). Why? Because it isn't the job of the government to "protect" us from things and activities*. We can choose to indulge a little or a lot in the above items. But the CoS is more than a thing or an activity. There are a group of people behind it. It's not a voice in your head telling you it's ok to neglect your family, it's a "supportive" group of people telling you if you don't abandon your family, that you will [Insert CoS-equivalent phrase to "burn in hell for all eternity"].

      *That doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to offer guidelines, just that they shouldn't be able to enforce them.

    94. Re:Church of Scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Complete and total BS. I know plenty of couples where only one member is a Scientologist. As for the last paragraph, this is so off it is not even worthy of a reply.

      This is not informative at all.

    95. Re:Church of Scientology by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      Actually it DID answer your question. The CoS itself harrassed her husband who then divorced her. I'd call that harassment of her as well because the CoS screwed up her life after it screwed up her husband's life.

    96. Re:Church of Scientology by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      Really? You know plenty of couples in this situation? You'd almost have to be a Scientologist in order to know multiple couples in this situation, wouldn't you? Maybe you're spreading a little disinformation for LRH?

    97. Re:Church of Scientology by Golddess · · Score: 1

      but that didn't change our conviction that the accused had committed the crime so we had to return a guilty verdict.

      Not necessarily.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    98. Re:Church of Scientology by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Protest the wrongdoings of the Church of Scientology all you like but do it without engaging in illegal activity

      "Illegal" is a construction of the political class, and has no bearing on "right" or "wrong".

      How about this then: DDoS attacks, whether against the Church of Scientology or against Aunt Margaret, are morally wrong.

      They always have collateral damage, whether it's unaffiliated people at the same data center whose bandwidth is swamped, or the people unaware that their PCs are part of some botnet. The people who put together these botnets aren't knights in shining armor or noble partisans looking to free the people from oppression. I put them in the same category as the Church.

      Don't DDoS. Period. Not against the despicable church, not against anyone.

    99. Re:Church of Scientology by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Just the other day, actually. Many Scientologists are bloody awful at keeping their love for LRH out of everyday interaction.

      All I want to do is get on with what I do; I don't want to go learn management as taught by LRH, and I think it's worse than cheeky to try to force me to do it. I am not interested in relearning my discipline as taught by L Ron Hubbard. It's creepy to inject your love for a pulp scifi author into everyday life, let alone into the everyday lives of people - colleagues and people with whom you do business - who don't subscribe to your UFO cult.

      Sorry. But it's true.

      Oh God. Where the fuck do you work where that nonsense is part of the management?

      Seriously, I'd like to know.

    100. Re:Church of Scientology by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      I kinda've want to go in there and take one of their stress tests so I can fuck with'em, but haven't yet.

      The thing is, no matter what you do in the stress test, it plays into their hands. You seem to feel fine? You're secretly conflicted and auditing would help remove the final obstacles to you becoming Clear. You molest your family? Yeah, you're screwed up, but it's something that a few courses shouldn't be able to handle. Perhaps you're a psychopath? Well, that's unfortunate, but classes and auditing will clearly give better results than psychotherapy or psychiatry.

      The folks in public are used to dealing with screwed up people who are honest about it, and screwed up people who are trying to act like regular people pretending to be screwed up (this is how they will see you). That's their job, and they're looking forward to LRH's 'tech' making you a better person. :P

    101. Re:Church of Scientology by jgoemat · · Score: 1

      Scientology uses quackery, the 'e-meter'. They use brainwashing techniques to extort money from their members. Their lies about psychology and psychiatry lead to harm. They are the only religion I know of that makes their teachings a secret. Xenu is purportedly kept secret because learning too early (i.e. before a significant amount of brainwashing has been accomplished) would cause immediate death. In reality, I doubt anyone would become a scientologist if they knew the ridiculousness of it prior to joining.

      Of course some people are afraid because they are guilty of something, and they don't want others to find out about it and try to shift attention to others.

      You have just perfectly described the "technology" used by scientologists when confronted by critics. Watch videos of them on youtube, they simply call the person immoral, say they committed crimes or simply denigrate their appearance or something in their life. It is their policy to attack people that disagree with them. Look at the organized harassment of their critics. Why would someone want to belong to a group so filled with hatred?

      Countries adopting Scientology to rehabilitate criminals, drug users, and it seems to go on and on.

      What about countries considering them a cult and putting them on trial for fraud?

    102. Re:Church of Scientology by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Neither does CoS without the subject's consent.

      You're kidding, right? Paulette Cooper and other journalists who have been Scientologists but have targeted by the Church might disagree.

      I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the Church if they were just harsh with their own members. But they have an official policy of aggressively attacking non-members who they feel pose a threat. Really, I think people should have the freedom to be self-destructive. If they want to ruin their lives in Scientology.. oh well. That's their decision. But the Church is very aggressive about crushing opposition.

    103. Re:Church of Scientology by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact."

      That is correct, OVERUSE should be avoided, but that doesn't mean comparisons can never be drawn.

      In this case, it was a rather valid comparison to a historic event, not two people calling each other Nazis.

    104. Re:Church of Scientology by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      If the DoS here stands for "Denial of Scientology", I'd say it's fair game.

      Haha, that was beautiful.

      (Italics added)

    105. Re:Church of Scientology by Nyder · · Score: 1

      ... Which means they often blame mental illness on the family.

      oddly enough, mental illness can be a genetic trait in families, so it's not actually wrong...

      --
      Be seeing you...
  2. 141 million hits on its website? by loftwyr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since when is visiting a website vandalism? This is terrifying! /. could have me arrested for almost 10 years of visiting!

    1. Re:141 million hits on its website? by TheKidWho · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, your refresh script obviously failed because you didn't get the first post.

    2. Re:141 million hits on its website? by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When you do it with the attempt to stop the server... That is vandalism. Slashdot having a lot of people who want to read the content is not vandalism it is not having the correct server capacity. As always the difference is intent.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:141 million hits on its website? by jim_v2000 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm pretty sure that 141 million hits qualifies as a DDOS, especially on a site not designed to handle that much traffic. Of course, it depends on the timeframe for those hits, but even over a year, that's 5 hits per second.

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    4. Re:141 million hits on its website? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got a syntax error in your sig. Missing a t.

    5. Re:141 million hits on its website? by CaseCrash · · Score: 1

      As long as someone has brought this up, i've been wanting to ask, shouldn't it be:

      DoWhatIWant() DoItFaster(Function), eg. DoItFaster(DoWhatIWant)

      without the ()'s so that the do it faster is passed the function, not the result of that function. as it stands you're running the first one, then doing the other, not speeding up the original function at all.

      --
      No, that link you posted to a web comic we've all seen a hundred times is not "obligatory."
    6. Re:141 million hits on its website? by euxneks · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Speaking of which, I don't think I've hit a site that's been slashdotted in a long time.. Am I just reading the news too early/late or is this phenomena on the way out?

      --
      in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
    7. Re:141 million hits on its website? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      It was obviously much more than that, LOIC does more than that per person, and they were probably a couple dozens, at least.

    8. Re:141 million hits on its website? by Drethon · · Score: 1

      So does that mean in place of DOSing someone I should post a slashdot article on their website to make it legal?

    9. Re:141 million hits on its website? by nazsco · · Score: 1

      that's very torrent site of you.

    10. Re:141 million hits on its website? by billcopc · · Score: 1

      That's funny, 5 hits per second is nothing these days. Youtube gets over 11000 hits per second. You'd think the CoS could afford a decent pipe...

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    11. Re:141 million hits on its website? by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      But they all wanted to read the content! Over and over and over again! Because it’s so great! How can you even dare to doubt that anyone would no think they are the greatest! But way to go, Scientology, for suing your biggest fans and potential new members! :(
      .
      .
      . ;)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  3. Not a lazy man at least by cptnapalm · · Score: 2, Funny

    '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'

    Well, that's one way to keep busy.

    1. Re:Not a lazy man at least by ThorofAsgard · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It wasn't just one man, it was the entire group 'Anonymous'. However I find it funny that Scientology has such specific figures, especially on the phone calls.

    2. Re:Not a lazy man at least by quangdog · · Score: 1

      He seriously placed more than 8k phone calls for the purpose of harassing them? Did he place all these calls himself, or hire a small army?

      I think my limit for placing calls to complain about something is around 4 - the 5th is to just cancel and move on.

    3. Re:Not a lazy man at least by oldspewey · · Score: 1

      I wonder if "I'm quitting this shithole organization" counts as a threatening phone call. Because in that case at least one of those 8139 calls came from Paul Haggis.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    4. Re:Not a lazy man at least by trapnest · · Score: 4, Informative

      He didn't hire a small army, he was part of a small army.
      http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Chanology - NSFW
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanology

    5. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Inb4PersonalArmy

    6. Re:Not a lazy man at least by EmperorKagato · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Project Chanology has nothing to do with the orchestration of DDoS attacks and harassment attempts with the Church of Scientology.

      The members of the small group that decided to perform these attacks did this on their own which caused losts of infighting between Anonymous since performing anything illegal goes against Project Chanology's cause.

      --
      ----- You know you have ego issues when you register a domain in your name.
    7. Re:Not a lazy man at least by hoggoth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just FYI for those who don't have the time or inclination to decipher 'Anonymous' and '/b/'s sarcastic parody insider language: Anonymous is not a "group" in the traditional sense. Nobody "joins" Anonymous. Everybody who feels like doing a prank is a member of Anonymous for the moment they are doing the prank and they are not as soon as the prank is done. Anonymous has no consensus or agreement on their goals or motives. Nobody can request action on behalf of Anonymous ("Anonymous is not your personal army").

      More than anything else "Anonymous" is a term or meme that describes the mob effect that occurs in response to shared outrage or shared giggles. In this way it is not entirely unlike Slashdot. It is ridiculous when someone says 'Slashdot believes this' or 'Slashdot agrees with that'.

      It is grossly unfair for Guzner to get the blame for over 9,000 phone calls and the rest as a "member of Anonymous". Nobody is a member of Anonymous, and everyone is a member of Anonymous.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    8. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Bakkster · · Score: 2, Informative

      However I find it funny that Scientology has such specific figures, especially on the phone calls.

      If you plan to take legal action for harassment, it behooves you to document that all.

      --
      Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
    9. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Publikwerks · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure you got it backwards - Chanology started out as a IT attack, then became the protest.

    10. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Korin43 · · Score: 1

      Everybody who feels like doing a prank is a member of Anonymous for the moment they are doing the prank and they are not as soon as the prank is done.

      Not true. Anyone who claims to be a member of Anonymous is (whether they are currently participating in a raid or not).

    11. Re:Not a lazy man at least by nstlgc · · Score: 1

      You obviously have no idea of what you're talking about, and I say that with the deepest respect for the people involved in Chanology and nothing but contempt for the Cult of Scientology.

      --
      I'm Rocco. I'm the +5 Funny man.
    12. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'

      It's not much, but it's a start. I would have gone after the Catholics first, and used more fire.

    13. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! I get it, now! Scientology doesn't actually have any real stats to go on any more, so now it's measuring its productivity based on the negative terrorist stats it can dream up for itself!

      Hell, I get at least twenty pieces of trash in my mailbox every week from Scientology, and most of them threaten me with an eternity of spiritual anguish if I don't obey them. I wonder if that's terrorism?

    14. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      It is grossly unfair for Guzner to get the blame for over 9,000 phone calls

      *golf clap*

    15. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody is a member of Anonymous, and everyone is a member of Anonymous.

      Dude, you just blew my mind.

    16. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously haev no idea what you're talking about. The DDoS, prank phone calls, prank pizzas, black faxes (&etc) were the birth of Project Chanology. Classic Anonymous /i/nsurgency. There is not one without the other.

    17. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Golddess · · Score: 1

      it was the entire group 'Anonymous'.

      That's like saying all Muslims are terrorists based on the actions of a few who claim to be Muslim.

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    18. Re:Not a lazy man at least by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      It wasn't just one man, it was the entire group 'Anonymous'. However I find it funny that Scientology has such specific figures, especially on the phone calls.

      I'm sure a chunk of those phone calls were made by Scientology members.

  4. scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    According to the Church of Scientology, Anonymous has harassed and attacked them with ... 141 million hits on its website ...

    Sorry, what was the website URL again?

    1. Re:scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are in the eyes of the law and tax collectors. That's all that matters when it comes to wealth and power.

    2. Re:scientology by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Funny

      Who gave you the ability to decide that, the Pope?

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    3. Re:scientology by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 2, Informative

      All real churches involve pasta and pirates.

    4. Re:scientology by A+beautiful+mind · · Score: 1, Troll

      Scientology is an efficient church. They are focusing on what a church usually does: scamming people out of their money and scamming them for control.

      --
      It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
      Be yourself no matter what they say
    5. Re:scientology by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 5, Informative

      They are a cult.

      People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;
      Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
      They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader;
      They get a new identity based on the group;
      They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled.

      From everything I've read about and seen of Scientolgists and Scientology, they do all of those things.

      Contrast that to say...Judaism or Islam, theres a big difference.

    6. Re:scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, have you not heard about all the atrocities they've committed? Do 5 minutes of research and try and tell yourself they are anything but a criminal organization.

    7. Re:scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh I don't know, most of the things that Anonymous (and others) have been protesting about them is just as true of the Catholic church; they are both international criminal organizations. The difference is that Scientology has actually been caught and convicted at least once.

      Religion: large cult
      Cult: small religion

    8. Re:scientology by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      If this was irony it was brilliant.

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    9. Re:scientology by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      There's a massive difference between Scientology (and other dangerous cults) and legitimate religion: legitimate religions nowadays never (and I mean never) require monetary payments to learn or take part in the doctrine, history, and basic practices of the church. They don't expect you to pay for the chance to talk to clergy. You can if you so choose walk into a religious building (making sure to follow any customs that members ask you to follow, such as wearing a hat or removing your shoes), take part in a service, eat some snacks, have tea with the clergy, and walk out without paying anyone a dime, signing anything, or making any promises to the organization.

      With a cult, the pattern is very different: they usually promise access to some secret that will improve your life, and want you to start paying and making promises to them from the moment you join.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    10. Re:scientology by Chameleon+Man · · Score: 1

      I can tell you (personally) that the Christian gathering I go to has zero intention of either. Our group gathers in the basement of someones home and we all pitch in if we want to put on an event, but no one is ever pressured to give money. Our group, and I'm sure most other Christians, believe in the inevitability of an armageddon, therefore prompting us to seperate ourselves from society rather than controlling it. If we try to control it, then we WILL become the problem (See just about any religion that has come into power). I believe Buddhism follows the same format. That said, not all churches "strive" for power and control. This is one of the key factors that makes Scientology a frighteningly real problem.

    11. Re:scientology by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Forget this whole debate about whether or not scientology is a legit religion -- we should instead use this absurdity as a jumping off point in the debate over religion in our society. Is there any particular reason that religion ought to have the protected status that it does? Why are religions even tax exempt in the first place? Why do we feel that it is okay to label children with their parents' religion? These are the sorts of questions we should be asking. I honestly can't see how the dark lord Xenu is any more absurd than a talking snake in a tree, but I do see it as a good sign that people everywhere fully recognize the absurdity of scientology. We simply need to take it one step further.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    12. Re:scientology by ElKry · · Score: 1

      They don't expect you to pay for the chance to talk to clergy..

      Some of the clergy. I only know examples from the catholic church (and it may be different depending on the country), but you definitely have to pay for the privilege of talking to the Bishop most of the times (i.e. in case you want to be removed from the church's database, but also for religious reasons). Some archbishops will charge you, too. And it only gets more expensive as you go up the pyramid.

      Not to mention the charges for funerals, weddings, first communion, and other sacraments. And I won't even get into the common practice of marriage annulment in which first money changes hands, then some reason for the annulment is decided and the marriage is magically no more, because no one needs to do it to get salvation (unless they want a new spouse!).

      I consider marriage, for example, to be a pretty basic practice of the church. But, if your intention was to say that the catholic church is not a legitimate religion, be my guest...

    13. Re:scientology by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1
      I am not sure if you are being sarcastic, but at the risk of being hit with the WHOOSH hammer, I will bite and say that all of these things that you mentioned are absolutely true of all 3 Abrahamic faiths. I experienced all of these personally growing up in a Christian family:

      People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;

      --I was told as a child that I would burn in Hell for all eternity if I was bad. It is obscene that parents would put such vile, crippling nonsense into their childrens' minds. This is psychological abuse, plain and simple.

      Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;

      --I was told that the Bible is the perfect word of God and that everything I need to know is in there. This is clearly retarded, but the covered for this by saying that questioning this would constitute a sin. Referring back to my previous point, it is easy to see why I took so long to see this.

      They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader;

      --Yep

      They get a new identity based on the group;

      --Two words: "Born again"

      They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled.

      --I was repeatedly encouraged to hang out with Christians and to avoid the godless people around us. I was even told that not only should I avoid anti-Christian influence, I was even told to avoid secular music altogether! I was told that evolution is a lie. It was just bullshit piled on bullshit, supported by fear and enforced ignorance.

      Again, I realize that you were most likely being ironic, but there are many people that this would be lost on, as they are too brainwashed in their own ideology to realize that their faith is just as stupid and every bit as odious as any cult out there.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    14. Re:scientology by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Did I mention Christianity? Nope.

      Even the beliefs of the Young Earthers are more "realistic" than that of Scientology.

    15. Re:scientology by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      You are implying that other large, organized "churches" never committed atrocities. That's... amusing.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    16. Re:scientology by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Even the beliefs of the Young Earthers are more "realistic" than that of Scientology.

      Could you please explain how? Christianity is at least as absurd as scientology. The entire premise of the whole thing is absurd beyond words -- the God who created the entire Universe is looking down at us and cares who we fuck? This same god (who apparently loves you) will send you to be tortured for all eternity for the grievous sin of not believing in him? And then he has the balls to pre-program us to sin? After all this, he decides he needs to save us, so he sends himself down to be ritualistically sacrificed in an unimaginably horrific way. Why not just, you know, forgive us? He is all-powerful and all.

      You even go so far as to mention Young-Earthers -- the same folks who believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that we co-existed with dinosaurs. I am not defending scientology in any way, but it is simply not possible to get more retarded than this. They honestly take the word of a guy who herded goats in the desert 4,000 years ago more seriously than the whole of modern science. To put this in perspective -- if you had never heard of Christianity before, and you just happened to pick up a copy of the Bible, would you really look at it and say "Wow, this sounds legit, it must be the word of God and I should start living my life by it"? I think you (and any other reasonable person) would see it for the load of garbage that it is and throw it in the nearest trash receptacle, lamenting the hours you wasted reading such nonsense. Again, I could blast scientology for the useless drivel that it is as well, but I don't feel that it is at all necessary since everyone here is well aware how silly it is. Christianity, however, is a different story. We need to put all of our thoughts and belief systems under the same microscope. Anything less is intellectual bankruptcy.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    17. Re:scientology by fbjon · · Score: 1

      Scientology has committed atrocities recently, and continues to do so.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    18. Re:scientology by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I was going to say "only on slashdot is a completely ignorant comment be modded +2 insightful", but clicking on the "reply button" I see it was remodded as troll. Good job, mods!

      I don't often go to church, but I've been to very many different denominations of Christian churces and have yet to have any of them attempt to scam me out of money. They pass the collection plate around, but nobody ever coerces or forces or shames anyone into putting money into it. In fact, many if not most churches have "food pantries" where the poor can come for food. You don't have to have a penny in your pocket to go to a real church.

      Your only contact with religion appears to be the TV evangelists. These are NOT Christian churches; they are indeed scams. They're easy to spot, as well.

      • The preacher wears a four thousand dollar suit. I've never been to a real church with a rich preacher. Pat Robertson has converted more Christians to athiesm than all the athiests at slashdot combined.
      • Huge multimillion dollar facility. "The love of money is the root of all evil". Read the actual Bible to see what Jesus has to say about money. If you're rich, read it and weep. If you worship money you're not worshiping God.
      • A political bias, particularly a right-wing political bias in sermons. You rarely see this in a real church.
      • The congregation is all white, or all black, maybe with a token member of another race.
      • The preacher will sell prayer in return for money. The Catholic church's priests have been guilty of this in the past, and is what caused Martin Luther to act and start the Reformation. You can't buy your way into heaven
      • The preacher will condemn some group, such as gays, for their behavior. "Judge not, lest you be judged yourself". I find it hypoctitically ironic that a clean-shaven preacher will bash gays, when the Bible clearly states that making yourself look like a woman is a sin -- and what would be more "making yourself look like a woman" than removing a secondary sexual characteristic? Before you try to remove the mote from your brother's eye, first remove the plank from your own.

      Christianity is about love and eternal life, not death and hatred and hell. Any preacher who rallies for war is a wolf in sheep's clothing. In fact, if you read the bible you'll find that athiests don't go to hell -- it agrees with the athiests that athiests die when they die. Only Christians who willfully rebel against God go to hell; their sins are forgiven. Jesus paid the price for Christians' sins.

    19. Re:scientology by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Informative

      "You even go so far as to mention Young-Earthers -- the same folks who believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that we co-existed with dinosaurs. I am not defending scientology in any way, but it is simply not possible to get more retarded than this."

      Yea, you can.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu#Summary

      "The now-disembodied victims' souls, which Hubbard called thetans, were blown into the air by the blast. They were captured by Xenu's forces using an "electronic ribbon" ("which also was a type of standing wave") and sucked into "vacuum zones" around the world. The hundreds of billions[5][19] of captured thetans were taken to a type of cinema, where they were forced to watch a "three-D, super colossal motion picture" for thirty-six days. This implanted what Hubbard termed "various misleading data"' (collectively termed the R6 implant) into the memories of the hapless thetans, "which has to do with God, the Devil, space opera, et cetera". This included all world religions, with Hubbard specifically attributing Roman Catholicism and the image of the Crucifixion to the influence of Xenu. The two "implant stations" cited by Hubbard were said to have been located on Hawaii and Las Palmas in the Canary Islands"

    20. Re:scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a person who was raised Catholic, I can tell you that your definition of a cult fits perfectly with Catholicism.

    21. Re:scientology by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, as a historian, I see the Bible, at least the Old Testament for what it is, an oral history and moral code system. The creation of the Earth and all that isn't from a guy who herded goats 4,000 years ago, but its the oral tradition of all the peoples in the region, originally probably from Persia or western India. The Deluge myth might even date back to the end of the Ice Age, or at least the flooding of the Persian Gulf area or other megafloods.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(prehistoric)

      Also, the Bible isn't just a Christian text, its also a Jewish text and is held in regard by Muslims, its just not their book.

    22. Re:scientology by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      So by your definition, the Roman Catholic Church was not a "church" until what date, exactly? The late 1800s? And for the rest of its history, it was a "cult?" Or did it gain and lose its "church" status repeatedly over time, like a holy sine wave, as it promoted "atrocious" methods for conversion and conquest, burned witches, etc.?

      I suppose Islam is not a church even today, as some of its followers atrociously circumcise women? I'm just trying to understand your requirements for what "is a church."

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    23. Re:scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the bigger difference is, if you look at any real religion, they will very willingly give you access to all the churches teachings. Heck, most of them will gladly give you a copy of their holy books so you can learn about it if interested.

      These schemers hide their 'religion' and make you pay to take 'courses' before you can learn most of what their beliefs really are. It's a scam, not just a cult.

    24. Re:scientology by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      >> prompting us to seperate ourselves from society rather than controlling it.

      Interesting.
      The church I go to (also Christian) thinks separationism from society is exactly the wrong direction, and is part of the current problem of why people mistakenly see Christianity as wierd, alienating and elitist.

      Our church tries hard not to protect and isolate ourselves, but to break down divisions and be an active and positive member in our greater community. We feel the way to make God known to others is through example and to let them see his spirit at work by helping them.

    25. Re:scientology by Dan667 · · Score: 1

      if did not notice my userid, i live right next to the devil. I get to hear all kinds of crazy things. I need to move.

    26. Re:scientology by Max+Littlemore · · Score: 1

      To quote the logician in Monty Pythons Holy Grail:

      "Elvis Presley is dead, but not all of the class of dead people is Elvis Presley"

      I'm sorry to read that you suffered this abuse, but the behavior of many Christians is far from the teachings of Christ. Teachings which in fact are full of the message of religious tolerance.

      I really wish those stupid fuckwit evangelists, born again knob ends, etc, could just fucking realise that Christianity wasn't a religion when Christ was around and was most likely never intended to be a religion in and of itself, in contrast with Scientology which was designed as a religion from the start. I wish they would quit it with all of the judgment, damnation and irritating fucking public displays of holiness. It's more annoying than fucking spam because I don't have an effective filter for public street preaching. Cunts! - Actually no, cunts are useful!

      At their core, Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not have inherently closed systems where their teachings cost money. While there are examples of cults, for example the Exclusive Brethren who treat dissent in some very similar ways to the "Church" of Scientology, Christianity itself is not a cult.

      All swearing in this post designed to create an ironic anti-cyclone when misguided "Christians" read it and get offended - deeply believing that swearing is sin but public displays of holiness are not against the teachings of Christ.

      --
      I don't therefore I'm not.
    27. Re:scientology by kuzb · · Score: 1

      Congratulations. You just described almost every religion on the planet.

      --
      BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
    28. Re:scientology by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      What charismatic leader does Judaism, Hinduism and...oh...Taoism have?

      Islam? Nope no leader.

      Lutheranism...Martin Luther has been dead for 400+ years and wasn't that unconditional loving.

      Jews don't get a new identity based on the group - most don't even accept converts.

      Catholic Universities are bastions of research, so that rules out access to information is severely controlled.

    29. Re:scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Cult" is such a relative term. I know some people who's interpretation of Christianity is cult-like, whereas others practice in a more compatible method that doesn't annoy the hell out of everyone around.

    30. Re:scientology by mahadiga · · Score: 1

      "Religion was born when the first con man met the first fool." -- Mark Twain

      --
      I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
    31. Re:scientology by fbjon · · Score: 1
      Since all of scientology is pretty atrocious in my book, I call it a cult throughout. I call the catholic church a church mostly because it isn't very cult-like today. It's not marginal, and neither sinister nor strange. Its history doesn't really influence what I call it.

      You think all this is very vague? Welcome to the club.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    32. Re:scientology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1) What?
      2) No. There are thousands of lectures and millions of written words that comprise the Scientology religion.
      3) Unconditional love? Umm no.
      4) Haha no sorry... that doesn't happen.
      5) Wow then how am I on /.?

      Posts like this are great. Makes the anti-Scientology crowd look as silly as hardcore truthers.

    33. Re:scientology by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      So, sounds like your definition of "cult" is "whatever I feel like calling a cult." That makes the word meaningless, at least when you speak it.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    34. Re:scientology by fbjon · · Score: 1

      Bingo! The distinction has always been rather meaningless.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    35. Re:scientology by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      I see none. There is no difference between “cult” and “religion”. It’s always a mild schizophrenia. And a church is not a religion. It’s a business to exploit people who are sick with that disease.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    36. Re:scientology by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      A mild schizophrenia?

      Good way to label 97.5% of the people on the planet.

  5. Scientology: It can't even fail properly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    8,139 threatening phone calls

    If you're going to make up statistics, Scilons, at least make sure they're over 9,000.

    1. Re:Scientology: It can't even fail properly by trapnest · · Score: 1

      9,139 threatening phone calls*

  6. dark side of the coin by czarangelus · · Score: 0, Troll

    It's funny to me that the people who complain about spam the most are also the "information wants to be free" types. You can't have it both ways. Freedom of speech, freedom of data transmission also applies to hawkers of Viiagr11a and c1la15!!) doesn't it? As to DDoS attacks, how many times are you allowed to knock on a church's door before it becomes illegal? Though you might agree with this particular case, it opens up the door for more intrusive precedents. Once you allow the government to ban heroin, you give them jurisdiction over your body that will become more and more intrusive.

    --
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
    1. Re:dark side of the coin by Rogerborg · · Score: 3, Informative

      Information is signal, not noise.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    2. Re:dark side of the coin by czarangelus · · Score: 1, Insightful

      do you really want the government deciding which is which?

      --
      When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
    3. Re:dark side of the coin by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unfortunately someone has to -- if we can't control the flow of noise a bit the Internet will be totally unusable.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    4. Re:dark side of the coin by czarangelus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Brilliant! You have just created a mechanism by which the government can declare all dissent from its policies "noise" and thus be blocked.

      Back in the USSR, they used to respond with dissent by calling it the result of mental illness. After all, the dictatorship of the proletariat always had the best interests of the common folk at heart. If you disagreed with its policies, it must be because you are a poor suffering victim of some kind of anti-social personality disorder.

      --
      When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
    5. Re:dark side of the coin by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 4, Funny

      do you really want the government deciding which is which?

      The government doesn't really decide that. We do. We complain, the government investigates. It isn't a proactive measure that the government is taking.

      However we could have issues if it grows to something similar to the FCC.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    6. Re:dark side of the coin by oldspewey · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Legislating against spam has nothing to do with free speech whatsoever. It has everything to do with poisoning the commons. If we, as a society, can enact laws saying it is illegal for a mining company to dump 10,000 litres of cyanide into a river, then we can also enact laws saying it is illegal for Alan Ralsky to dump ten billion rolex spams into the world's routing hardware.

      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    7. Re:dark side of the coin by NetRanger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personality disorders, like, extreme anti-government paranoia? Or confusing basic regulations for Stalinist policies?

      --
      -- We live in a world where lemonade is artificial and soap has real lemon.
    8. Re:dark side of the coin by Entropius · · Score: 1

      Freedom of speech implies that the recipient wants to listen. I should be allowed to post the DeCSS code on the internet, but I should not be allowed to stuff dozens of copies in people's mailboxes.

    9. Re:dark side of the coin by CannonballHead · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Freedom of speech implies that the recipient wants to listen.

      It does? Then it's not freedom of speech, it's freedom to hear.

    10. Re:dark side of the coin by LOLLinux · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Brilliant! You have just created a mechanism by which the government can declare all dissent from its policies "noise" and thus be blocked.

      The US Government can do that and already has done so on a number of occasions.

    11. Re:dark side of the coin by maxume · · Score: 1

      Are you sure it is the same people, or are you just making that assertion because it helps you make a point?

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    12. Re:dark side of the coin by czarangelus · · Score: 1

      I vastly prefer a technological solution to one that comes at the point of a government gun. Look, if you own the router, it's your responsibility to accept or reject information going into it.

      --
      When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
    13. Re:dark side of the coin by McDutchie · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's about consent, not about content. Spam, by definition, is unsolicited bulk e-mail. The type of content doesn't enter into it, so any concerns about censorship are misplaced.

    14. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think legislating what mad apes think and believe is "basic regulations" I fear for the future from both the left and right near equally.

    15. Re:dark side of the coin by czarangelus · · Score: 1

      I get unsolicited mail in my snail mail box pretty much every day, and that does a hell of a lot more damage to the environment and productivity time (sorting, recycling, et c.) than spam does.

      --
      When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
    16. Re:dark side of the coin by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's funny to me that the people who complain about spam the most are also the "information wants to be free" types.

      And if you get caught lying to the tax office about your income, you probably also pull the argument that free speech, as guaranteed by the constitution, also covers lying to the tax office, right?

      Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you may (mis-)use any medium to tell your opinion. It just says that you must have the possibility to do so, and to do so in public. It doesn't say you have the right to fill up private mailboxes with it. I reserve the right to decide what I want to have in my(!) mailbox. If you want to tell the world about how great your replica watches are, or how much you like the Democrats or Republicans, you are invited to do on any public channel. But keep it out of my mailbox. It's my mailbox. It is not public.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    17. Re:dark side of the coin by gnieboer · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but I don't think consent is the issue either. You get bulk snail mail delivered to your physical mailbox daily that you didn't consent to receive. But those folks don't go to jail.
      I would think the hacking of machines to create their shell boxes and similar crimes would be more the issue.

    18. Re:dark side of the coin by John+Whitley · · Score: 1

      Though you might agree with this particular case, it opens up the door for more intrusive precedents.

      This is insane; like arguing that prosecuting graffiti as vandalism will suddenly descend into house painters doing hard time. Exactly the same kind of "I'm too stupid to distinguish good from bad" as school officials occasionally get laughed at when some draconian rule (say, meant to address gang activity) is applied mercilessly to an obviously good student.

      As to DDoS attacks, how many times are you allowed to knock on a church's door before it becomes illegal?

      You've been struck dumb by your paranoia. There's a qualitative difference between a knocking on a church's door (accessing a website) and trying to knock down a church's door (DDoS'ing it). No legitimate user, even those employing web crawlers, will generate within orders of magnitude of the traffic as a DDoS attack. Even if a non-malicious user somehow "accidentally" DDoS' a site, that person would still be liable for that negligent behavior.

    19. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's funny to me that the people who complain about spam the most are also the "information wants to be free" types.

      And you do not see a difference between them ? Like one being pushed and the other pulled ? Really ?

      You can't have it both ways.

      Oh yeah I can. I can have it both ways by declaring it a one-way street (pun intended) by disagreeing with your notion of (spam) having a right to use my communication-pipe (snail-mail, phone, internet, my ears or otherwise) as you/they please, even against my expressed wishes. I regard that as tresspassing.

      Freedom of speech, freedom of data transmission also applies to hawkers of Viiagr11a and c1la15!!) doesn't it?

      Sigh ... Some people still think that "freedom of speech" is the same as having the right to demand other people to listen to them. Grow up kid, you can't stay that ignorant all your life you know.

    20. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's both. You can speak all you want, but you don't have a right to be heard, because nobody has to listen. I'm not sure spamming on its own should be illegal, but often those spam emails contain other illegal things, such as fraud. Those could be dealt with using existing laws.

    21. Re:dark side of the coin by windex82 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's cool, I'm going to come knock on your door for the next three years. The knocking is just a bit of a nuisance and since you've done your part and locked me out all is well right?

      Somehow I feel that if I did that I would be looking at a solution that comes from the point of a government gun.

    22. Re:dark side of the coin by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Certainly, and making certain speech illegal is not illegal in and of itself, either. Death threats aren't exactly "legal." You can get arrested for spouting off too angrily at your neighbor, too.

    23. Re:dark side of the coin by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

      No, not really. We have created a mechanism by which the government can prevent people from using malware to hijack millions of computers without the consent of the users to plug up the series of tubes we call the Intarwebz with unsolicited bulk e-mail. Just by restricting these folks to using their own resources to send the crap mail seriously reduces the harm that they can do -- the real tube-clogging power comes from the huge zombie bot nets.

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    24. Re:dark side of the coin by bmajik · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Personality disorders, like, extreme anti-government paranoia? Or confusing basic regulations for Stalinist policies?

      What prevents Stalin the 2nd from happening in the USA? Have we just been lucky to not have anyone that mean be born here? Are Americans just a better judge of character than the Russians?

      I'm not so presumptuous to think that Russia is better at making tyrants than we are, or its people are more predisposed to misjudging politicians.

      The difference between everywhere else and the USA is that we wrote down a bunch of rules that the government wasn't allowed to break. That way, when our stupid citizens elected tyrants, those tyrants never had any wind in their sails and we didn't "vanish" millions of people for essentially arbitrary reasons [brown people notwithstanding]

      The difference is that our government was designed to put the brakes on itself. So when someone proposes that we give the government power or control to do some act that it didn't previously have the power to do, IMO reasonalbe Americans ought to be concerned.

      If we get to the point [assuming you don't think we're there yet] where the political class in this country can do whatever they like, what's to stop them? What prevents Stalin the 2nd from coming to power in the USA? Luck? An educated populace? An insightful press and critical media?

      The difference between here and "not here" is that here, we don't beleive Stalin has the right to do what Stalin does, and our laws say so. Let's not be in a hurry to denigrate those who question the relaxation of limits on government power.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    25. Re:dark side of the coin by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It's funny to me that the people who complain about spam the most are also the "information wants to be free" types.

      Are they? You have evidence of this? Also, even if it were true (it may be, or it may not) freedom of information is like freedom of speech. I'm free to speak, but I have no right to make you listen.

      Few if any advocates of free speech advocate freedom to slander, or otherwise maliciously harm ("Fire" in a crowded theater).

      As to DDoS attacks, how many times are you allowed to knock on a church's door before it becomes illegal?

      Freedom of speech isn't freedom to be a nuisance. If I answer my door and tell you "no thanks, I don't want a vacuum cleaner" and you knock again, I'll have you arrested for trespass.

      My right to swing my arm ends where your nose begins. Rights go both ways.

      Once you allow the government to ban heroin, you give them jurisdiction over your body that will become more and more intrusive.

      WTF does that have to do with the argument? If you're wondering why you were modded "troll", look up slashdot's definition of troll. It's in the FAQ.

    26. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, freedom to hear means you are free to hear or not hear whatever you want.

      It's enforcement of hearing. There is nothing free about it.

      Freedom to speech: basically can't get arrested for what you say. you can say whatever but doesn't mean people have to listen.

      Freedom to hear: can't get arrested for hearing something. free to hear anything including anti-government speeches or whatnot. Can hear at your choice.

      Enforcement of hearing. Speaking to someone against their will and no way to avoid it. While you are free to speak, you can not force someone to hear (which you are partially doing by spending unwanted mail).

    27. Re:dark side of the coin by LOLLinux · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but I don't think consent is the issue either. You get bulk snail mail delivered to your physical mailbox daily that you didn't consent to receive. But those folks don't go to jail.

      Actually if you get a prohibitory order against the person sending you junk mail they can face criminal charges by violating it.

    28. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You've been struck dumb by your paranoia. There's a qualitative difference between a knocking on a church's door (accessing a website) and trying to knock down a church's door (DDoS'ing it). No legitimate user, even those employing web crawlers, will generate within orders of magnitude of the traffic as a DDoS attack. Even if a non-malicious user somehow "accidentally" DDoS' a site, that person would still be liable for that negligent behavior.

      Wasn't one of the first computer viruses an experiment to estimate the size of the internet that went wrong?

    29. Re:dark side of the coin by LOLLinux · · Score: 1

      So then you're also against prohibitory orders that can be obtained to disallow anyone from non-governmental sources from sending you mail, right? You've been able to obtain these from something near 4 decades. Why are these prohibitory orders, or the do not call lists, somehow not censorship while blocking spammers is?

    30. Re:dark side of the coin by LOLLinux · · Score: 1

      So then you're also going to lobby against Do Not Call lists and prohibitory orders as well, right?

    31. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I get unsolicited mail in my snail mail box pretty much every day, and that does a hell of a lot more damage to the environment and productivity time (sorting, recycling, et c.) than spam does.

      Actually, it's not your mailbox. At least in the States, it's the US Postal Service's mailbox. You're allowed to take things out of it. You're allowed to leave things in it for other USPS workers to deliver. That's it.

      To be really pedantic about it, it's illegal for me (a private citizen who doesn't work for the USPS) to put a Christmas card in "my neighbor's mailbox".

      I hate junk mail as much as you do, and for the same reasons. But junk mail's not the same as spam. The assholes that send junk mail pay the USPS to deliver it. The USPS delivers it to the USPS's mailboxes, and I'm stuck with the task of shredding it. If I really don't like a particular piece of junk mail, I can go to the USPS and fill out a little form that says (in effect) that I think it's pr0n. If I say those Capital Zero credit card offers are too sexy for my tastes (hey, I know it's weird, but your kink may not be my kink...), the USPS is forced to take me at my word, and they will stop delivering them.

    32. Re:dark side of the coin by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      And you can stop delivery of any specific mail anyway, by asking the Post Office.

      But, more important, postal crap doesn't hijack random people's houses to get them to spew out mail.

      Spamming, at this point, doesn't need to be illegal. What we need to do is lock every single spammer up for the hundreds of thousands of felonies they commit by hijacking computers to send spam. Forget the 'spam sending'.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    33. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that really what you think? Or is the government trying to tell you what to think with its governing? What you call your so-called "basic regulations" are just another way the government just wedges in control. Today it's just collecting a tax for taking care of your roads. Tomorrow the government will collect a tax for thinking about those roads! Some of us are just better at realizing what the government is doing to us. We buy our own roads and, using guns, shoot any government agents off it.

      Government, government, government, government. Is that even working on you? Are you terrified? How about if I just keep saying it? If I mix a few fnords in, will that help convince you?

    34. Re:dark side of the coin by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      And this is why arguing about the morality of spam is stupid.

      Instead, talk about the morality of people hijacking millions of computers. Each one being, you know, a felony.

      I swear, this is like someone set up an illegal mail carrier service in competition with the US postal service, and we're talking about the morality of the government monopoly of letter carrying...

      ...while ignoring the fact they're running their mail carrier trucks though a public malls and elementary school playgrounds and driving over and killing everyone.

      'Spam' is a misdemeanor. It is a trivial crime.

      Spamming almost always involved committing hundreds of thousands of felonies to accomplish that misdemeanor. It is very surreal to talk about that misdemeanor in any sort of abstract sense, or about the morality of that misdemeanor, or the constitutionality of laws against it.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    35. Re:dark side of the coin by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Or to put it another way: Free speech may, indeed, include the right to talk even when people don't want to talk to you.

      It does not include the right to grab unwilling sleeping people, stick your hand up their ass, and use them as meat puppets to talk to people who will slam the door in your face if they knew who was really talking to.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    36. Re:dark side of the coin by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      So.. you think spam filters should be illegal?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    37. Re:dark side of the coin by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      Freedom of speech implies that the recipient wants to listen.

      It does? Then it's not freedom of speech, it's freedom to hear.

      On the contrary, it is freedom to speak—but it's not "freedom to make people listen" or "freedom to use other's property (involuntarily) to reach a broader audience". Freedom of speech means one can say whatever one wishes without interference or reprisal. It does not mean that others are forced to carry one's message, or that one can use deception (fraud) to trick them into doing so.

      Stuffing mailboxes is the former; violating others' private property rights to carry one's message. Unsolicited bulk e-mail makes use of the latter, by falsifying source addresses and claiming non-existent prior business relationships. It also deliberately circumvents the target's e-mail filters, which can be classified as harassment—sending messages which are not only unsolicited, but are clearly known by the sender to be unwanted. Much of spam also violates private property rights through the use of botnets, masses of unsecured computers employed without their owner's knowledge or consent.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    38. Re:dark side of the coin by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      Do you really not know the difference between transferring and copying data between people and purposefully shuting down someone you do not want to hear from? Attacks are attacks.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    39. Re:dark side of the coin by Dishevel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When has our government actually ever given us a new right instead of taking them away? When have they taken useless or wrongheaded laws off the books instead of just throwing more of them out there? Maybe a bureaucracy that became useless that the government shut down? No. The government gets bigger and more intrusive. That is not a crazy conspiracy. It is just the facts. That is what the US government dose. It is what all governments do till threatened by their own people.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    40. Re:dark side of the coin by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      Actually it's not entirely up to you what may or may not go in your mailbox. I believe federal regulations prohibit anyone from placing anything but US Postal office delivered mail, or your outgoing mail intended for the post office to deliver. That's in the US of course, your mileage may vary in other countries.

    41. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, spam by its very definition is unwanted - otherwise it would be a newsletter.

    42. Re:dark side of the coin by Nethead · · Score: 1

      Hate to let the steam out of your engine, but your e-mailbox does not exist as a physical entity. It's just a collection of magnetic states in a virtual environment (kind of like your bank account.) I'm not sure what this thing is you actually think you own.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    43. Re:dark side of the coin by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      When has our government actually ever given us a new right instead of taking them away? When have they taken useless or wrongheaded laws off the books instead of just throwing more of them out there? Maybe a bureaucracy that became useless that the government shut down? No. The government gets bigger and more intrusive. That is not a crazy conspiracy. It is just the facts. That is what the US government dose. It is what all governments do till threatened by their own people.

      That's easy to fix! Just make SCOTUS take less time off (hear more cases thus declaring more laws unconstitutional).

      --
      $ make available
    44. Re:dark side of the coin by Alex+Belits · · Score: 1

      Free speech may, indeed, include the right to talk even when people don't want to talk to you.

      I am certain, it does not, however if by any chance it does, or if some asshole lawyers will manage to redefine it so it will be, then I don't want free speech.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    45. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it's not your mailbox. At least in the States, it's the US Postal Service's mailbox.

      That depends. For most single-family homes, it is the responsibility of the homeowner to maintain a mailbox which meets USPS criteria (size, height from ground, distance from curb, etc.), and it's up to you (or your builder) to provide it for a newly constructed home. In at least those cases, which are very common, it absolutely is your mailbox. Not all of us live in a huge apartment complex in some metropolis.

      - T

    46. Re:dark side of the coin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you speak of is trespassing, and it IS illegal.

      The last time I checked, sending packets wasn't. The internet is not a tangible ground upon we live and own property. An IP address is leased, and you have no right to declare no packets should ever come your way. If you want that to happen, we'll all just laugh at you and call you an idiot, because that's exactly what the internet was designed NOT to do: restrict open access to anything.

    47. Re:dark side of the coin by Golddess · · Score: 1

      Saying that free speech includes the right to talk even when people don't want to talk to you does not mean that free speech includes forcing others to listen to you (which I suspect is what you're actually against).

      --
      "I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
    48. Re:dark side of the coin by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      No... I never said you had the freedom to force me to listen. I can walk away. If you insist on following me, I'll go to my private property (or someone else's private property that I know). If you still follow me after being asked to leave, you're trespassing.

      Seems spam filters are basically putting up gates to my private property, in a very vague way.

      And either way, I have every right to plug my ears and close my eyes while you try to sell me something. Freedom of speech doesn't imply you are guaranteed and audience :)

    49. Re:dark side of the coin by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, but my point is, that philosophical point is completely idiotic in this context.

      Free speech may, or may not, include the right to put information in front of people who don't want it, and hence spamming may, or may not, be free speech. I lean towards 'Not' side of that, that people have the right to not be harassed, but whatever, it's moot.

      Regardless of where you are on that opinion, free speech does not include the right to take other people and force them to speak for you to other people because everyone is slamming the door in your fucking face when you show up.

      Which is, you know, what spammers are actually doing, with the botnets of hijacked machines. Let's stop worry about 'spam', and 'spammers'. Hell, let's just agree that doesn't even exist at all, and forbidding spam is an unconscionable restriction of freedom of speech, and everyone can crap all over everyone's computer all they want if they have an open SMTP port.

      And then let's go lock up those people we used to call 'spammers' for hundreds of thousands of unauthorized access to a computer. (Which they then stupidly used to send an entirely legal 'spam' email, which resulted in us knowing they had hijacked that computer.)

      Usually that's between one to six months in jail. For one access. So assuming we give them the lowest fine, that's about 10,000 years in jail. That sounds reasonable. Maybe only 7,000 with good behavior.

      Forget 'spam'. 'Spam' is not something we need to track down and prosecute. Spam laws have idiotic penalties like fines and rules about opting in or out and marketers who try to clutter the definitions. We can deal with the non-hijacking spammers by simply blocking them from the internet, or blocking the people who give them access.

      And the hijacking spammers we can lock up for the entire rest of their life without bothering with a single reference to 'spam' at all.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
  7. Ralsky's the guy that Slashdot spammed... by douglips · · Score: 5, Informative

    He took it right in the ass. It was beautiful.

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/12/06/1554227

    1. Re:Ralsky's the guy that Slashdot spammed... by fulldecent · · Score: 1

      >> According to the Church of Scientology, Anonymous has harassed and attacked them with '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'"

      s/harassed and attacked/enlightened/

      --

      -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

    2. Re:Ralsky's the guy that Slashdot spammed... by AVryhof · · Score: 1

      Is that link work safe?

      Did someone upload the Goatse guy to Slashdot's servers?

      God Save us all!

    3. Re:Ralsky's the guy that Slashdot spammed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      In case anyone is interested, there's an online video of an interesting talk given by US Attorney Terrence Berg about the investigation and prosecution of the Ralsky case:

      Terrence Berg's info & links to the presentation

      I think it provides insight into how they have to approach these kinds of cases, and how difficult it can be to go from "knowing" someone is violating anti-spam laws to getting the right kind of evidence to "prove" that someone is doing something illegal. It was also kind of fun to hear about some of the details before they became public (I think the video may still have those parts edited out, though).

      The talk was at this year's SUMIT conference at the University of Michigan, an annual one-day information security event that brings in some great speakers (I've been to all of them, and I think this year's was the best so far). All of the talks are online:

      SUMIT_09 Videos

      If you have time, check out Moxie Marlinspike's talk about SSL and Alex Halderman's talk on the cold boot attacks (this isn't particularly new stuff, but I thought the talks were very entertaining and interesting).

    4. Re:Ralsky's the guy that Slashdot spammed... by mpe · · Score: 1

      >> According to the Church of Scientology, Anonymous has harassed and attacked them with '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'"

      How many of these claims were actually substantiated by independent investigation? Especially considering that the CoS most likely would not be against creating "false flag" attacks against themselves...

  8. L. Con Hubbard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    A direct quote from L Con Hubbard:
    Attack...never defend.
    Apparently the only way to keep up a teetering "religion" is to attack.

    1. Re:L. Con Hubbard by endymion.nz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A direct quote from L Con Hubbard: Attack...never defend. Apparently the only way to keep up a teetering "religion" is to attack.

      That's a direct quote from me as well, talking about RTS games. Not saying L Ron Hubbard wasn't a douche, just that its common sense and can be applied to pretty much anything...

      --
      mediocrity rules, man
    2. Re:L. Con Hubbard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Would these work any better for you then?

      "The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than win.

      The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly. "

      According to Scientology, its critics are, "Suppressive persons" who deserve to be "utterly destroyed" and "eliminated quietly and without sorrow."

      Can you apply that in ways besides your RTS GAME? Scientology is not a game. I suggest a little time online. find a few of the affidavits about lives destroyed by people who were in too deeply when the truth ofthe cult was revealed tot hem, and their lives were destroyed. "Disconnection" "Coerced abortions" Racism within Scientology "Human trafficking" "Child labour" "Rehabilitation Project Force"

      Any of these things can be portrayed in a game, or even a movie by real actors. But it is outside of games, computer generated bullshit, and on down that line, and it's in real life. This organization uses intimidation (including death threats) to convince people they need to go along with this. Some people are convinced they're just making a sacrifice. But so much of it is blatantly illegal in so many countries where Scientology exists. But the governments there are afraid of the "freedom of religion" thing which so broadly makes them open to criticism, so very little is often done about investigation or especially prosecution.

  9. Look no further for a viral media consultant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He got the website 141 million hits? Sounds like they should be paying him, not prosecuting him.

  10. Scientology is not a religion! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...it's a tax evasion scheme.

    1. Re:Scientology is not a religion! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      .... it's a tax evasion scheme.

      If you had phrased that in the form of a statement backed by references, you might not have been modded flamebait:

      "Didn't France convict the CoS of fraud? ( http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/10/27/france.scientology.fraud/index.html )"

      or

      "Arnaldo Lerma tells us that, 'when I asked why Scientology was now being called a church, I was told that it was for tax purposes.' ( http://www.lermanet.com/LRonHubbard2.htm )"

      Something like that might have gotten the flamebait mods countered by positive ones... even if it (and this post) are likely somewhat off-topic for this particular article.

    2. Re:Scientology is not a religion! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kind of like Christianity, Judaism, and all the rest.

    3. Re:Scientology is not a religion! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the difference again?

    4. Re:Scientology is not a religion! by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      There is no such thing as a “religion” or “church”. There is only unlucky people with a type of schizophrenia, and a business that uses it to exploit them.

      Religion does not need churches.
      God does not need a religion around him.
      The universe does not need a god for its explanation.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  11. "And a partridge in a pear tree!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism , 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.

    1.1 GOLDEN YEARS!

  12. I know what the guy did is wrong... by brkello · · Score: 1, Insightful

    But Scientology is just pure evil. I can't help but sympathize even if I can't condone. I have mixed feelings though...no one should have their lives threatened...but another part of me thinks Scientologists kind of deserve it because of the suffering they cause. Very confusing. It would all be easier if people didn't like and exploit each other. Too bad that will never happen in my life time.

    --
    Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    1. Re:I know what the guy did is wrong... by dbcad7 · · Score: 1

      Been going on for ages.. and not just Scientology.. How many elderly people have given their life savings to an evangelical preacher ?.. People are easily conned into believing all sorts of things. That there may be some good done by some of these groups doesn't take away from the fact, that there are many people who are hurt.. Sad fact is, you can't stop people from being stupid.

      --
      waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
  13. In Defense of Anonymous... by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...Never gonna give you up!

    --
    To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    1. Re:In Defense of Anonymous... by H0p313ss · · Score: 1

      Never gonna let you down

      --
      XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
    2. Re:In Defense of Anonymous... by selven · · Score: 3, Funny

      Never gonna C-C-C-break your combos

  14. Anonymous Member? by Jack+Malmostoso · · Score: 1

    Rules 1 & 2, buddy.

    1. Re:Anonymous Member? by throwaway85 · · Score: 1

      ...Don't really apply on /. It's hardly Youtube.

  15. Which wormhole did I fall through? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is it freedom of religion is so sacred in these modern times? It's the 21st century already and we still let these lunatics preach their thought control?

    No one should go to jail for such an altruistic effort as shutting down a cult. Janet Reno and her cronies killed 76 people just like the ones these guys harassed and didn't see a day in jail. These guys make some threats and they all do time? The whole thing would be laughable if it weren't eerily true.

    I'm sure the religious nuts that frequent /. will mod me down. It's ok. You probably lost control of your thoughts at an early age, when your parents forced it on you, so I don't hold you accountable.

    Peace and love.

    1. Re:Which wormhole did I fall through? by hmar · · Score: 1

      Why is it freedom of religion is so sacred in these modern times?

      Because, only with the freedom to believe freely do you have your freedom not to believe. The intolerance you preach is as bad as any Catholic/Muslim/CoS etc.

  16. scientology by Dan667 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is not a church.

  17. Prison talk by Mishotaki · · Score: 4, Funny

    "So, you're the guy who keeps sending me those male enhancement meds spam huh?"

    "No sir, i'm only specialising in female spam, nothing else!"

    "Yeah, right! well i'll make an example for the next spammer who dares saying that i need such drugs!"

    *drops pants*

    "Mommy!"

    1. Re:Prison talk by kungfugleek · · Score: 1

      *drops pants*

      "Mommy! .... Well obviously the drugs have worked for you."

    2. Re:Prison talk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "So, you're the guy who keeps sending me those male enhancement meds spam huh?"

      "No sir, i'm only specialising in female spam, nothing else!"

      "Yeah, right! well i'll make an example for the next spammer who dares saying that i need such drugs!"

      *drops pants*

      "Mommy!"

      ...
        *flop* *flop* *flop*
      Bubba: There! do you think I need viagra now uh?
        *flop* *flop*
      Spammer: Please insert the balls! insert the balls!
        *flop* *flop* *flop*
      Bubba: u wanna me to insert ma balls?
        *flop* *flop*
      Spammers: the balls of my eyes because they are popping out!

      [sorry, bad Spanish->English translated joke)

  18. Dmitriy Guzner: by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Informative

    secularist martyr

    you don't fight vile "religions" that zombify and enslave the weak with kind words and cupcakes

    this is the way the mafia known as the church of scientology plays:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White

    turn around is fair play

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:Dmitriy Guzner: by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      How do you use kind words and cupcakes to zombify and enslave the weak? Though I can see why you don't want to fight religions that can do that.

    2. Re:Dmitriy Guzner: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The link deserves a story unto itself. Great link! How does scientology even survive with such a black record?

  19. Ah, a sentence he can't refuse. by b4dc0d3r · · Score: 1

    How fitting for the godfather.

  20. A Year and a Day? by Knara · · Score: 1

    What was the sentencing judge trying to say with that sentence? It's a very sort of "traditional" span of time. Was this a "you don't do any real harm, but you must realize that this behavior is not acceptable?" type of message?

    1. Re:A Year and a Day? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's part of the US's Common Law background. A prison sentence for a felony is longer than one year; it's one of the things that distinguishes a felony from a misdemeanor.

    2. Re:A Year and a Day? by Knara · · Score: 1

      Interesting. So, basically, he was found technically guilty and given what was essentially the minimum possible given the crime at hand?

    3. Re:A Year and a Day? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Not really. While the judge pretty much has to hand down at least a year and a day as a prison sentence in case of a felony, he could've declared part of it or all of it suspended, depending on the exact crime, and the laws of the of that particular state.

  21. it's all about the lulz... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not your personal army

  22. Hrmmmm by SLot · · Score: 2, Funny

    '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'

    part of me mentally read all of those numbers as 'over 9000'

    1. Re:Hrmmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How did you read ten, 22, and 8 as over 9000?

    2. Re:Hrmmmm by Spazztastic · · Score: 2, Funny

      How did you read ten, 22, and 8 as over 9000?

      It's mean to point out someones dyslexia.

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
  23. typical /. libermentarianism... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it was inevitable that a story about someone the hivemind dislikes has a insensitive joke about prison rape.

    and of course, it's also inevitable that we'll have some nimby-pimpby sanctimonious PC jerkwad stating that isn't funny.

    1. Re:typical /. libermentarianism... by thisnamestoolong · · Score: 1

      That's not funny

      --
      To the haters: You can't win. If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine
    2. Re:typical /. libermentarianism... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because every person here is thinks the same and acts the same.

      Now get back to making those hot grits or whatever the fuck they talk about here.

  24. yah but... by roc97007 · · Score: 3, Funny

    "Anonymous has harassed and attacked them with '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'"

    They always say that.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  25. Ok... by koinu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church^Wsect leaders

    Where do I send fan mail for this guy?

  26. Fighting monsters by NonSequor · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "Nineteen year old Dmitriy Guzner, Anonymous member and Scientology DDoS attacker, received one year and one day in jail for his admitted crime. His sentence could have been a maximum ten years. According to the Church of Scientology, Anonymous has harassed and attacked them with '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'"

    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
    --Friedrich Nietzsche

    --
    My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    1. Re:Fighting monsters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
      --Friedrich Nietzsche

      If he's so smart, how come he's dead?

    2. Re:Fighting monsters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Operation Freakout:

      Cooper counter-sued on March 30, 1972, demanding $15.4 million in damages for the ongoing harassment. However, the Church stepped up the harassment, for instance painting her name and phone number on street walls so that she would receive obscene phone calls, and subscribing her to pornographic mailing lists. She also received anonymous death threats and her neighbors received letters claiming that she had a venereal disease.

      In December 1972, a woman ostensibly soliciting funds for United Farm Workers stole a quantity of stationery from Cooper’s apartment. A few days later, the New York Church of Scientology “received” two anonymous bomb threats. The following May, Cooper was indicted for making the bomb threats and arraigned for a Federal grand jury. The threats had been written on her stationery, which was marked with her fingerprints.

      The charges were eventually dropped in 1975 with the filing of a Nolle prosequi order by the local US Attorney’s office, but it was not until the fall of 1977 that the FBI discovered that the bomb threats had been staged by the Guardian’s Office. A contemporary memorandum sent between two Guardian’s Office staff noted on a list of jobs successfully accomplished: “Conspired to entrap Mrs. Lovely into being arrested for a felony which she did not commit. She was arraigned for the crime.”

      This wouldn't be the first time they have falsely accused somebody of death threats, as well as being adept in sending their own.

  27. Anonymous is winning by AnonymousX · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anonymous has done a lot since the early days of prank calls and whatnot. The legal protests as well as other actions by Anonymous (also legal) have delivered a crushing and unprecedented blow to Scientology. Anon has probably done more to fuck them over than even the FBI did at the end of the 1970's. Now because of Anon, there is massive negative media coverage of the scilons. Hollywood is rebelling against them and more and more celebs are walking away or saying no. And on top of all that, now the Australian government is taking a hard look at Scientology as a criminal organization with a Senator actually denouncing them in open Parmiment. Anonymous has enabled many ex-scientologists to speak out as well as family of those still inside to seek communication with their loved ones without fear of reprisal. Anonymous enabled this by breaking the back of Scientology's Office of Special Affairs and has them so tied up, they can't prioritize which targets to go after and have lost their effectiveness almost entirely. After nearly 2 years of this, only one conviction against an anon and for a lowly DDOS attack that happened in the early few weeks of the movement is a testament to how good Anonymous is at staying within the law. Sure it may cut out some form of lulz, but we have found that action against the Scientologists that hurts them but leaves us legally untouchable generates way more lulz because it leaves them no lawful recourse against us.

    1. Re:Anonymous is winning by emilper · · Score: 1

      So, what do you do that's legally untouchable but still bothers them ?

    2. Re:Anonymous is winning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's $5, son, go buy yourself some reading comprehension.

    3. Re:Anonymous is winning by emilper · · Score: 1

      neah... that's 25$ at least, second-hand ...

    4. Re:Anonymous is winning by AnonymousX · · Score: 1

      Protesting, free speech, videos and spreading the truth about them. Seriously, look up some of the anonymous vids on youtube. The scilons get butthurt a lot over simple free speech. Want a good example? Look up John Carmichael on youtube. He is the head of the New York city org. You'll see him trying to do what the scilons call "bullbaiting" anons. Trying to troll people expert in trolling isn't generally very effective and at one point he gets so mad he sneers, "I smell pussy" at them. It's a riot to watch. At one point John leans up against a building looking sulky and one of the anons says, "Come on guys, he's had a hard day" upon which another equips, "He's stalking us, of course he's going to have a hard day". That's just one small example of how nuts the protesting has driven them.

    5. Re:Anonymous is winning by emilper · · Score: 1

      John Carmichael on youtube

      oh ...

      I suppose the tables that the scientologists put on the side-walk were not authorized in any way, or the space rented from the city ...

      The anons in the clip showed a lot of self control ... that was a difficult performance, keeping cool while being openly threatened (the "name and phone number" requests ).

      Not many "scilons" in the open around here ... I suspect because the traditional churches would sic their neo-fascist dogs on them the instant they set the booth ... though that would fun to watch ...

    6. Re:Anonymous is winning by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Hollywood is rebelling against them and more and more celebs are walking away or saying no.

      I'd like to hear more about this. Which prominent celebrities have walked away recently? The only thing I hear is Nicole Kidman may have left Tom Cruise because of his Scientology (and tendency to be fucking crazy) and Will Smith is probably going to become a Scientologist.

  28. To Name One by Conchobair · · Score: 4, Informative
    1. Re:To Name One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She joined a criminal cult organization, then got "victimized" by it. Sounds like Darwinism to me...

    2. Re:To Name One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Darwinism, I don't think that word means what you think it means. You seem to imply a eugenic perspective.

    3. Re:To Name One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As in "She won the Darwin Award".

    4. Re:To Name One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, you mean the Eugenic Prizes. They use it wrong too.

    5. Re:To Name One by Spazztastic · · Score: 1

      Whenever I see long comment chains like this from ACs, I wonder if it's one guy arguing with himself...

      --
      Posts not to be taken literally. Almost everything is sarcasm.
    6. Re:To Name One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We generally use existing names, rather than renaming things to assuage our neuroses. Makes communication go more smoothly, you should try it!

    7. Re:To Name One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is goodthinkful. Newspeak is doubleplusgood!

    8. Re:To Name One by Conchobair · · Score: 1

      You can put a racing stripe on a turd, but it's still a turd.

    9. Re:To Name One by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Inconceivable!

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    10. Re:To Name One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Egads. Stormfront and the Third Reich is missing one of it's retards.

      Someone come pick it up please.

  29. Poking a stick at the beehive.. by greywire · · Score: 1

    "Scientology has harassed and annoyed them with Millions of phone calls, millions of mailed brochures, censoring websites or any thing else they see that doesn't make them money, acts of vandalism against, threats, and death threats against former Church members and non members."

    There, fixed that for you.

    --
    -- Senior Software Engineer, Attorney appearance services, locallawyerapp.com.
  30. Co$ are a bunch of whiny hypocrites! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    They use those same tactics against what they consider to be their enemies, but when someone turns the tables on them, they shed a few crocodile tears and run to the police.

    They have broken into the offices of the FBI and have members of their cult have died under suspicious circumstances while under their care, yet they have the gall to call what others do illegal.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    1. Re:Co$ are a bunch of whiny hypocrites! by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Calling CoS "whiny hypocrites" is like calling an error in code that is responsible for the deaths of people, corruption in government and illusioning people into throwing away their money and lives a "bug".

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    2. Re:Co$ are a bunch of whiny hypocrites! by sowth · · Score: 1

      Whatever asshole. You are the one who wants people like them to have control of your computer.

      I'm sure one of the criteria for rejecting iPhone apps would be anything which would piss off a "religious" organization, especially one as aggressive as them. So letting the CoS have say over what you do with a computer is "not oppressive or abusive." Is it?

    3. Re:Co$ are a bunch of whiny hypocrites! by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      You stupid little dictatorial troll. The Co$ has nothing to do with that. Why don't you explain why you believe everyone should do exactly as you say, Mr. TinPot Dictator? Well, shithead, I am waiting. You say you think you should be allowed to yell in the ear of anyone who disagrees with you, so give me your name and address and I will come over and you can try to yell in my ear, you fucking coward.

      Now, either post your true contact info or shut the fuck up bitch.

      --
      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  31. Not defined in the article... by damn_registrars · · Score: 1
    Was Ralsky actually arrested and tried in person, or is he still running around free? The closest answer to that which I can find is at his wikipedia entry where it states that

    On June 22, 2009, he pleaded guilty to wire fraud, mail fraud, money laundering charges and violating the CAN-SPAM Act.[10] He agreed to assist in the prosecution of other spammers in exchange for sentencing consideration

    By comparison, trials for other spammers have been held without them present as they tend to not stay in one place long.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  32. Guess that Xenu guy isn't all powerful by mr_death · · Score: 1

    ... you'd think he/she/it could keep these simple attacks from a puny unenlightened human at bay.

    --
    It's Linux, damnit! Pay no attention to renaming attempts by self-aggrandizing blowhards.
  33. Scientology Statistics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "According to the Church of Scientology, Anonymous has harassed and attacked them with '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders."

    According to the Curch of Scientology, they have been the fastest growing curch on the planet for, what, some 20-30 years. Long enough that everyone on the planet should be converted by now.

    Guess what, they lie.

    Anon.

    1. Re:Scientology Statistics by Rycross · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't be the first time they've lied about bomb threats.

  34. Tor by default by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't see request for Tor by default in Ubuntu. What about other distros or other onion routers? That would increase the base. Amnesty or Human Rights Watch or The Democracy Center all have a stake in onion routing. To take the thread in the same direction, but further, the group that backed Bush may have left the top offices in the administration, but it has not entirely left power. And the voting machine problem is not yet solved. Those are still under their sphere of influence.

    Phil Zimmermann's Why I Wrote PGP and OpenSSH's SSH FAQ are two works that come to mind first about privacy. Most countries recognize the natural right to peaceable assembly. Do the corporations that now have larger budgets and more political clout than some small countries also those rights? You know the answer. The price of freedom is not just eternal vigilance, the cost also includes acting to proactively resolve threats to that freedom.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
    1. Re:Tor by default by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      I don't see request for Tor by default [ubuntu.com] in Ubuntu.

      Probably because that would be irresponsible for Ubuntu or indeed any distro to do such, at least if Tor would be acting as an exit node. It would be irresponsible because if you're running Tor, you'd better be fully aware of what that means, including that you'd be legally responsible for the traffic that flows through your node, at least through the exit node. An Ubuntu user shouldn't have that active by default (I'm assuming that's what the suggestion you linked to said, it was a bad link), having his computer used for other peoples' file sharing, degrading his bandwidth when he doesn't even know the service is running.

      Let me tell you, the fastest way to destroy Tor would be for all the child porn collectors to use it exclusively. :-P

  35. Five years for SPAM by freedomseven · · Score: 1

    He got off light. Hanging is to goo for him.

  36. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not saying that bomb threads are funny. But its hard to know who's more nuts, the "scientologists" or a
    19 yr old so pissed off at them to do all that?

  37. Freedom of Speech by mhollis · · Score: 1

    Freedom of Speech devolves from the pamphletting started around the time of King James I (of England) from Holland through James II and William of Orange. William, of course, was somewhat implicated in their distribution as a means by which he could influence the English people prior to his landing there and taking over the government. This started limited rule in England and William of Orange was as annoyed by these published tracts as his predecessor was after he became King of England.

    Obviously these pamphlets were designed to "preach to the choir," but they were also written to persuade some of the population that there were alternatives to a Catholic King who was increasingly suspicious of the overwhelmingly Protestant subjects he ruled. In other words, there were people increasingly "wanting to listen."

    During the US Revolution against King George III, these exact issues became doctrine in the American Colonies. Anyone today who reads "Common Sense," written by John Payne, will sagely nod their head at how important it was to quit the (seemingly) "despotic rule of an overbearing European tyrant." But, taken in the context of his time, this was just shy of blasphemous, as Kings were assumed to have certain, divine rights that placed them above the masses, and Payne was arguing for mass rule -- something that had never been tried.

    Another George -- Washington was roundly discomfited by this "free press," which, in opposition, roundly criticized him and impugned his motives as our first President. I'm fairly sure he would have enjoyed a discussion about this wide freedom with William of Orange.

    But in all of these cases, the "speech," was being written for people who were either open to persuasion or more than happy to receive the content.

    The Internet is a completely new medium that almost completely democratizes "freedom of speech." I say "almost" because there are areas of the US and income levels here in this country that make access to the Internet pretty close to impossible. And there are areas of the world where Internet access is absolutely impossible and access is carefully limited, as in Saudi Arabia and China.

    That said, Internet "Spam" is being touted as free speech. And I have to ask about this ideal of either "openness to persuasion," or "happiness to receive content." Surely George Washington didn't want to read the Philadelphia Aurora publishing their take on his (mis)deeds. I'll bet King James II read some of the published works circulated against him that culminated in what the English call "The Glorious Revolution." I'm also positive that Alan Ralsky and Dmitriy Guzner would style themselves modern day Thomas Paynes.

    But this issue does not fall into this area of "free speech."

    Where this area ought to fall is in another area, and I like to quote the justification of the law used to prohibit "junk faxes." You send out business cards with your fax number on it and you'll start receiving them. And according to federal law, prohibiting unsolicited faxes, the justification lies in the costs that you have to incur.

    You have to buy paper. And if someone sends you a ream's worth of junk faxes yearly, you have to go out and spend more money on paper. Additionally, you have to buy toner (or whatever kind of ink your fax uses, be it thermal paper or whatever) to print those faxes. Also, members of Congress tend to have fax machines in their own offices and they were offended by these same "junk fax" senders. So the law says, each fax sending machine must put its real telephone number on the top of the fax. And the law says that a fax sender cannot keep sending a fax to someone who says they don't want the advertisement. After a few pretty high-profile suits, lots of tho

    --
    Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
    1. Re:Freedom of Speech by Thinboy00 · · Score: 1

      ...mass rule -- something that had never been tried. ...
      ...
      ...
      ...

      [The stupid filter is whining about "'junk' characters".]
      ...
      ...
      ...

      Athens?

      --
      $ make available
    2. Re:Freedom of Speech by mhollis · · Score: 1

      Only wealthy landowners were considered "citizens" in Athens. The "masses" were never allowed to vote -- they were considered "represented" by the land owners.

      --
      Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
  38. One more bytes it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ding dong, the witch is dead!!! Yay - one more spammer bytes the big weenie in the sky.

  39. Why is anyone believing Scientologists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article says, "According to the Church of Scientology, Anonymous has harassed and [blah blah]". This is stated uncritically, with no attempt to determine if it's true or not, even though Scientology has been found over and over again (by both journalists and court systems) to be a criminal conspiracy to steal money from credulous believers.

    A good journalist would have actually researched Scientology's claims and almost certainly would have determined that they were fabricated and inflated to make Scientology look like it was under massive attack, rather than being annoyed by occasional teenage Anonymouses.

  40. now you know.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a little known fact that Little Debbie is the last great bastion protecting us from the great unwashed horde of practioners of Voudon in Miramar.

  41. Not insightful by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    Putting toilet paper in a toilet is obviously nor vandalism. Putting an entire rol in at once, is.

    This isn't that hard to understand is it? The law doesn't fall for such childish wordplay games. Grow up and join the real world.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Not insightful by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Grow up and join the real world.

      What colour's your fur?

  42. Catholicism a Cult? by woolio · · Score: 1

    I was born and raised Catholic. Went to Catholic schools. The parent poster brings up some interesting points.

    While many people may agree Scientology is a cult, I suggest we all look inward:

    People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;
    Early Christian followers were threatened, beaten, etc.

    Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
    Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader;
    Jesus is said to have unconditional love for all people.

    They get a new identity based on the group;
    Followers of Jesus are no longer Jews, Pagans, etc... They are known as Christians.

    They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled.
    The 4 gospels were all pretty much copied from the same source (and long after Jesus died). Each one has a different audience, but the content is largely the same. In this sense, followers have restricted access to information. The Catholic church also regulates which scriptures form the Bible (and which do not). Not all writings of the Dead Sea scrolls made it into the Bible. Throughout time, religion have been used as a means to divide people. In the past, those who have questioned the religious leadership have been excommunicated, or worse...

    Even today, try being a Catholic and marrying a non-Catholic in a Church. It is not allowed! The meaning of "Catholic" (as welcoming) only applies to their Cathechism school!

    (People may argue that the Catholic Church is no longer a cult, even if there is strong evidence for it being a cult at one time. So I ask you, did the religion change or did society change around it? If you think it is now no longer a cult, does that make you feel better?)

    From everything I've read about and seen of Scientolgists and Scientology, they do all of those things.
    From everything I have read and know about Catholicism, they do and/or have done all those things.

    Contrast that to say...Judaism or Islam, theres a big difference.
    Indeed, the other religions spell their name differently.

    1. Re:Catholicism a Cult? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Does the Catholic church sue people that print the Bible under copyright laws?

      My aunt, who is Lutheran, married a Catholic, in a Catholic church, and non-Catholics were allowed to attend. That isn't allowed in oh, Mormonism and Scientology, to name two.

      The CoS denies people medical care and medication, that is happening now, not 2000 years ago.

      Islam and Christianity's charismatic leaders died 2000 and 1300 years ago, give or take, so you can't really use Jesus as an example compared to Miscavige or Hubbard.

    2. Re:Catholicism a Cult? by Digz · · Score: 1

      People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;
      Early Christian followers were threatened, beaten, etc.

      ..and this was driven by the leaders of the Church how? That is the point - in a cult those in charge put you into these situations in order to brainwash you. The persecution of the Church by the Empire is not even cut from the same cloth.

      Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
      Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

      Gee, I'm glad that you were able to sum up all of the Catechism and Scripture into that one line of the Beatitudes. You know, maybe Thomas Aquinas would have written a lot less had he realized that the entirety of Christian thought could be summed up in this one line. Or perhaps you are trying to shoehorn something here.

      They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader;
      Jesus is said to have unconditional love for all people.

      Seriously? You are honestly comparing the love bombing that goes on in cults to the Atonement?

      They get a new identity based on the group;
      Followers of Jesus are no longer Jews, Pagans, etc... They are known as Christians.

      So then I guess all countries are cults as well, considering that a Frenchman who gained citizenship in Canada would become a Canadian. The horrors!

      They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled.
      The 4 gospels were all pretty much copied from the same source (and long after Jesus died). Each one has a different audience, but the content is largely the same. In this sense, followers have restricted access to information. The Catholic church also regulates which scriptures form the Bible (and which do not). Not all writings of the Dead Sea scrolls made it into the Bible. Throughout time, religion have been used as a means to divide people. In the past, those who have questioned the religious leadership have been excommunicated, or worse...

      Hmm, that's strange. When I went through RCIA no one ever isolated me from my friends, family, and work. (unless, of course, you're referring to the hour a week we went to classes). No one bothered to come to my house and remove all the comparative religious texts I have as well. No one tried to circumvent my web browsing by sending me a program that would block sites critical of the Catholic Church. No one cajoled me into installing software that would block any emails critical of my faith.The program I went through must have been defective. Of course, you could be just shoehorning again.

      Even today, try being a Catholic and marrying a non-Catholic in a Church. It is not allowed!

      So after all this study you never heard of a dispensation?

      The meaning of "Catholic" (as welcoming) only applies to their Cathechism school!

      No, Katholikos (which is a Greek word, pardon the Latinization) means "universal". As to your argument, it defies logic - especially when the proper definition is known.

      From everything I've read about and seen of Scientolgists and Scientology, they do all of those things.
      From everything I have read and know about Catholicism, they do and/or have done all those things.

      quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

      --
      SYS 64738
  43. Remember the source! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I should point out that you're taking Scientology's claim at face value.

    Even if true (which I question), I have to believe it's a tally of everything that Anonymous has done to them, not the actions of this one particular person.

  44. Today's batting average by earlymon · · Score: 1

    One hit, one miss, so that's a batting average of 500 for the courts.

    I'd give them a 750 if they let the 1.1 guy off for time served by virtue of effort - at 19, he is - by definition - thinking of the children.

    --
    Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
  45. They may have chased me out of the neighborhood... by Eggplant62 · · Score: 1

    But note that I'm free and clear with the photos still of Ralsky's house in my possession and Bradley and Ralsky are both in the can. I'm so sad for them both.

  46. Please explain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What is up with this "one year and one day in jail ", why did they not just make it a year?

  47. de-chesterising tor by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 1

    Don't buy into that bogey man of kiddie snuff. It is being used to get a carte blanche for all kinds of restrictions against democratic principles like freedom of the press, freedom of speech and the right to peaceably assemble. The way it works is simple, a corporate or political interest has its skunk works bombard a service or site with offending material then they run to their co-investors in the media and whine for restrictions. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

    Keeping encryption and privacy in the mainstream is a very strong reason to promote Tor and one of the reasons mentioned for creating PGP in Phil Zimmermann's Why I Wrote PGP. Technology cannot police social problems.

    Chauchesku, Big Bush & Little Bush, various politburos and national Party committees have a problem with Usenet, Tor or anything else decentralized. Even e-mail and mailing lists, though centralized, seem a little to Free for them.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
    1. Re:de-chesterising tor by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Don't buy into that bogey man of kiddie snuff. It is being used to get a carte blanche for all kinds of restrictions against democratic principles like freedom of the press, freedom of speech and the right to peaceably assemble. The way it works is simple, a corporate or political interest has its skunk works bombard a service or site with offending material then they run to their co-investors in the media and whine for restrictions. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

      Ummm, ok. Etcetc. First, I don't believe in the conspiracy nonsense that the bad stuff on the Internet is just planted. But that's not the point. Maybe we have a fundamental disagreement here. You see, a user is responsible for everything that they knowingly and intentionally allow across their computers.

      See, I don't have a problem with people running Tor nodes. Their risk, their decision, their choice. But I don't think that's a choice that someone else should make for those users without their knowledge. Then you're just shoving someone else, often unwillingly, in front of the firing squad.

      So by all means, make Tor an option in Ubuntu. But to have it turned on by default would be the height of irresponsibility.

  48. Not enough, just not enough. by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

    Anonymous has harassed and attacked them with '8,139 threatening phone calls, 3.6 million e-mails, 141 million hits on its website, ten acts of vandalism against its property, 22 bomb threats, and eight death threats against Church leaders.'

    And still it’s not enough. There is no punishment that equals mass-psycho-manipulating people into religious schizophrenia, to use them as bondservants for the own greed for power and money. It’s on one level with mass-murder.
    But since it’s invisible it”s treated as being “not real”. I tell you, it’s a full-scale weapon of mass-destruction. Just a psychological one.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.