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Iranian Crackdown Goes Global
An anonymous reader writes "Tehran's leadership faces its biggest crisis since it first came to power in 1979, as Iranians at home and abroad attack its legitimacy in the wake of June's allegedly rigged presidential vote. An opposition effort, the 'Green Movement,' is gaining a global following of regular Iranians who say they never previously considered themselves activists. The regime has been cracking down hard at home. And now, a Wall Street Journal investigation shows, it is extending that crackdown to Iranians abroad as well. Part of the effort involves tracking the Facebook, Twitter and YouTube activity of Iranians around the world, and identifying them at opposition protests abroad. People who criticize Iran's regime online or in public demonstrations are facing threats intended to silence them."
I know this sounds odd, but it makes we want to get a million people who are not Iranians and put enough information on our Facebook pages to at least slow the Iranian govt. down, by making them wade through it.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
First you get the money, then you get the power...
Obama: Say hello to my little war.
Set your phasers on "funky"!
That's what Fareed Zakaria said Iran has now become. They can no longer claim to represent the people of Iran, and eventually will decay and fail. In the meantime, it is gut wrenchingly scary what average Iranians face in trying to reform their own government. It's a horrible reminder of the cost of liberty.
What I appreciate about this situation is that the Iranian people are standing up for them selves. Makes me want to help them. Something along the lines of supporting a justified patriot.
I dont care for the Afghan or Iraq wars because the people didnt stand up for themselves so I dont think that the rest of the civilized world shoudl sacrifice our soldiers lives for them. I think you will find many people much more willing to help the Iranians because they will stand up for themselves.
the best thing to do is to wait it out. this is the first time that the new generation is old enough to get involved in politics, and they made a very strong statement. over 70% of the country is under 30 due to the iran-iraq war, which basically wiped out a whole generation. this government is a legacy outdated establishment that is totally incompatible with Iran. The country was run by a foreign minority of non-Persians who used religion to control a country of children. Well, the kids grew up and they will rebel. Iran has a strong history and culture, and is too mature to put up with this crap for much longer.
My name is M. Ahmadinejad, Jr. I think Iran and it's Government are extremely corrupt, anti-Islamic, and a horrible place. The Iranian people deserve better than the lying cheating sack of shits that run the government - especially, the Mullahs - at least that's what my Dad told me.
It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
You forgot
UK & France
from your rant.
They also have the Bomb.
Unless your adulterous sister is inside.
Rule 1 of opposing an oppressive government on the interwebs: DO NOT put personally identifiable information on the same page as your opposing views.
The bad thing is, the US can't do much about this. If they press the hardliners too much, the pushback against that will push moderate Iranians into the hardliner's arms and unite the country behind them.
This happened in 2003-2004 when Iraq got invaded. People changed from considering the US as a superpower from afar to having military garrisons on two of Iran's borders and propaganda [1] going 24/7 about a pincer attack just hours away. Of course, this drove the moderate Iranians right into the arms of the extremists until recently.
The big reason the hardliners are having *any* resistance by moderates is that the evil bad bear of the US isn't making any headway with Iranians these days. They know that the US doesn't have the manpower or the technology for a sustained invasion of Iran in a conventional manner, and a nuclear attack just is out of the question.
[1]: The propaganda machines were even in the US. Infowars kept having articles that the Iran bombings were only hours away, and kept having those for years on end.
called iRan
And conversations such as this counter-expose them for what they really are. Cementing here the evils they represent from my values.
Shh.
When Iran cracked down on their citizens last time, during this summer's protests, Western companies such as Siemens and Nokia provided them the technology to do this.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562668777335653.html
I also highly doubt they're building massive databases with worldwide surveillance on Iranian citizens -- for the purposes of going after their relatives within Iran -- with their own home-brew technologies.
This takes some scary stuff some Iranian University students could not simply hash together -- things like deep-packet inspection of all internet traffic and massive data-mining algorithms in the scope of millions upon millions of megabytes.
What all this obsession about who actually won the Iranian presidential vote masks is IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS PRESIDENT OF IRAN. Sorry for the all caps but that really needs emphasis. The Supreme Leader holds all control over foreign policy decisions, security and so forth even nuclear power/weapons. I mean come on you can't even run for President of Iran with out approval of the Supreme Leader. Ahmadinejad only has control over domestic policy and even then as long as the Supreme Leader approves. He is there as a bargaining chip, if he attracts too much heat internationally or domestically he will be thrown under the Revolutionary bus so that the Ayatolla can find someone else to implement his policies.
every anarchist is a baffled dictator. Benito_Mussolini
Seriously? Fuck off.
This is why you don't use your real name on the internet. That includes facebook. If these guys all had weird names like IranDuDe401 like they would if they were using IRC and not some social networking site then the government would never be able to find their families in order to harass them.
The invasion of Iraq may have helped a little in that way. As you said, many Iranians were extremely worried that the US would use Iraq as a stopping point to invade their country. What's more, they saw a demonstration of the US's true power, that an army which could hold them at bay (remember the Iran-Iraq war) was swept aside in a matter of weeks. As you said, there was heavy propaganda related to this at home and abroad.
Ok however, the threat didn't materialize. The US stayed in Iraq and did nothing towards Iran. Even when there were some fluff ups over things like a boat supposedly drifting in to Iranian waters, nothing happened.
What something like that does is cause people to question the propaganda. They start to say "You know, maybe the US really isn't bad like they are saying, they haven't made a move towards Iran at all." The government keeps the propaganda going, and yet the propaganda shows an increasing disconnect with reality. The US elects a new leader that tries to engage them in discourse and still the propaganda continues.
Then of course there's the blatantly rigged election and what does the US do? Nothing militarily, and the citizens speak up in support for Iran.
That kind of stuff can lead to people really questioning the government line. The US quite clearly has the ability to crush their military and destroy their cities if they wish, yet there has been no move to do so. That tells them that what they've been hearing is not the truth.
FTA: "Although it wasn't possible to independently verify their claims, interviewees provided consistently similar descriptions of harassment techniques world-wide. Most asked that their full names not be published."
This is the same game that the Administration and the Media used to get us into Iraq. No names, no verification. But they promise it's true!
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."" -George W. Bush, 2002
If Iranian expatriates or Americans of Iranian descent can prove that they are the victims of physical violence against themselves or their property while on American soil, that would be a legitimate reason for the United States to invade Iran. If a foreign state sends its agents to a country to kill that country's citizens, that has traditionally been recognized as an act of aggression and legitimate casus belli for the offended nation.
The Mullahs better be careful, lest they become the first, straight up legitimate victim of "American regime change" in the last few decades...
How's that cyber-revolution turning out?
Japan too, albeit very briefly.
If you are posting things supporting the Iranian protestors, better watch what you order out - portable leafy greens might be the death of you.
No reason they couldn't take the tactic abroad, and it's a lot less traceable (thus deniable) than Russian exotic uranium killings.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
What does some useless, wannabe-Israel-activist site have to do with the Iranian government cracking down on Iranians?
It's hardly a 'wannabe' site when it is backed by the Israeli government. There are several articles to google about this, but here is one *wink*:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=315189
Dear friends,
Many of us recognize the importance of the Internet as the new battleground for Israel's image. It's time to do it better, and coordinate our on-line efforts on behalf of Israel. An Israeli software company have developed a free, safe and useful tool for us - the Internet Megaphone.
Please go to www.giyus.org, download the Megaphone, and you will receive daily updates with instant links to important internet polls, problematic articles that require a talk back, etc.
We need 100,000 Megaphone users to make a difference. So, please distribute this mail to all Israel's supporters.
Do it now. For Israel.
Amir Gissin
Director Public Affairs (Hasbara) Department
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jerusalem
If Iranian expatriates or Americans of Iranian descent can prove that they are the victims of physical violence against themselves or their property while on American soil, that would be a legitimate reason for the United States to invade Iran.
Ummm, no it wouldn't. Unless you are going to sit there and claim that any country WE have done the same thing to (eg: Italy) now have a legitimate reason to go to war with us.
Link to the project web-site:
:-)
http://wiki.thc.org/gsm
If you're IT admin of school with 5000 idle computers, consider donating some GPU time
The govt. in Iran today makes the Shah at his worst seem like utopia! Those students back in 1979 were idiots-they brought in a regime ten times as brutal as the Shah's, and one which shows no desire to abide by the will of the citizens of Iran.
OK, by citing Stormfront you just lost all factual and moral credibility.
Where governments track actions of individuals worldwide and target those who make their lives difficult for "removal". Technology will allow governments to track, impersonate, villify, and eliminate people from existence. When all records of your existence are digital and virtually all of your communications are digital, unless you are a movie star, you will be -easy- to erase. Famous folks aren't much more difficult, and in some ways are actually easier. They'll just get their lives ruined or have accidents.
If you're interested in helping, check out http://www.haystacknetwork.com/.
Indeed, but in this case Wikipedia has basically the same info.
Football Odds
The two comments above are correct. Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of Islamic revolution had both power and legitimacy, from both people and army/guards' loyalty. He was also a real Ayatollah in terms of religious knowledge and acceptance. Khamenei, the current leader had none of these. He became an Ayatollah and the Supreme Leader almost overnight, through mostly his fanatic followers in guards calling him so and mildly threatening the Experts Council into making him the Supreme Leader. The rightful replacement for Khomeini was Montazeri; the guy who came up with (made up) the whole theory of a theocratic republic with a cleric at the very top of the system. You can read more on his fate after opposing Khamenei on Wikipedia.
Short version: Khamenei is not really that powerful as he relies on Revolutionary Guards and their civilian thugs Basij to keep him in power as they put him there originally.
Back to the matter of presidency, the idea is not that much who is president -- though I would say it does make a lot of difference, as it did when Ahmadinejad replaced Khatami but that's a different story, too long to fit in a comment -- however that who people want to be president. Us Iranians wanted to vote Ahmadinejad out to tell the world that we do not approve of him and his policies, whether foreign or economic which were all disastrous. That's why he stole the election and that's exactly why people poured into street when they found out it doesn't really matter who they vote for anymore. The protests are the only reason the world now differs between people of Iran and the thugs running the country.
Long time user, posting anonymously for obvious reasons.
LOL, I knew you would give a response like that... that's why I put "*wink*" there.
If you want to get into FACTUAL and CREDIBLE sources, since the letter didn't actually come from Stormfront (they just had a copy of it and I posted their link *LOL*). Actually, I never knew what Stormfront was nor heard of the site until 'I was hunted down' for being neither pro-Israel nor pro-Iran!
But since you said that, here are the FACTS:
The official Hasbara handbook: http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf
You can read about it here: http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/01/13/p13653
Article "Israel's newest PR weapon: The Internet Megaphone": http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1162378505678&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull
(which is one of many source that verifies the copy of the letter above)
And, you can find links to GIYUS on the ISRAEL'S GOVERNMENT'S OFFICIAL WEBSITE: http://abuja.mfa.gov.il/mfm/web/main/missionhome.asp?MissionID=20397&
Do I need to post more to show you how easy it would have been to google it before you accuse me of such 'lost all factual and moral credibility'??? Sheesh, I could have posted a link to a different site than Stormfront, but it wouldn't be as *cough* funny!
What's different between the Iranian regime going after Muslims.... and GIYUS (and gov) going after Muslims? GIYUS makes the Iranian government look like the wannabe-activists!
The GP was a little of in the value of liberty, but he's on the right track.
While your example, Canada, didn't struggle to have liberty, they did earn it. As a people, they got together and chose to live in a free, open nation. Put another way, no one gave it to them. Which is the problem with Iraq. The US (my home) is trying to give it to them. That doesn't take away from the value of any such liberty, but it does bring into question the staying power of it.
After the Kremlin exited Eastern Europe, the peoples of each nation in Eastern Europe rapidly established a genuine democracy and a free market. Except for Romania (where its people killed their dictator), there was no violence.
In Iran (and many other failed states), no external force is imposing the current brutal government on the Iranians. The folks running the government are Iranian. The president is Iranian. The secret police are Iranian. The thugs who will torture and kill democracy advocates are Iranian.
If the democracy advocates attempt to establish a genuine democracy in Iran, violence will occur. Why? A large percentage of the population supports the brutal government and will kill the democracy advocates.
Let us not merely condemn the Iranian government. We must condemn Iranian culture. Its product is the authoritarian state.
We should not intervene in the current crisis in Iran. If the overwhelming majority of Iranians (like the overwhelming majority of Poles) truly support democracy, human rights, and peace with Israel, then a liberal Western democracy will arise -- without any violence. Right now, the overwhelming majority clearly oppose the creation of a liberal Western democracy. The Iranians love a brutal Islamic theocracy.
The Iranians created this horrible society. It is none of our business unless they attempt to develop nuclear weapons. We in the West are morally justified in destroying the nuclear-weapons facilities.
Note that, 40 years ago, Vietnam suffered a worse fate (than the Iranians) at the hands of the Americans. They doused large areas of Vietnam with agent orange, poisoning both the land and the people. Yet, the Vietnamese do not channel their energies into seeking revenge (by, e. g., building a nuclear bomb) against the West. Rather, the Vietnamese are diligently modernizing their society. They will reach 1st-world status long before the Iranians.
Cultures are different. Vietnamese culture and Iranian culture are different. The Iranians bear 100% of the blame for the existence of a tyrannical government in Iran. We should condemn Iranian culture and its people.
Real Americans aren't Muslims.
You do realize you lost whatever consideration people would pay to you once you go all xenophobic.
There is a reason there is freedom of religion in America.
Fuck fuck fuck, fuck fuck Iran
"There is a reason there is freedom of religion in America."
That reason is to keep religionists from killing each other, not that there is anything good about religion.
Islam is demonstrably, by the societies it creates, a very toxic and savage religion. Islam may be judged by what Muslims believe, do, support, and regard as infallible word of their imaginary friend.
I'm not being "xenophobic" any more than if I deplored Communism. I specifically object to and revile Islam.
It has done nothing to advance mankind in centuries, is hopelessly regressive, and does not support the degree of personal freedom
that I demand.
Why should superstition get the slightest bit of respect beyond that accorded to secular political ideology?
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
If you don't play by the USA rules you're a regime, and if your oil trades in euros rather than in dollars, you're a regime again. Oh wait that's Iran. And the so called WMD are there, just like in Iraq.
And as usually, this is carried out as "liberation" of the "enslaved Iranian people" which was prior followed by black PR against the government. Same happened in Ukraine, Georgia, all those countries that are now in dip shit.
If it is the same information (verbatim letter), does wikipedia cite Stormfornt -- or is it the other way around?
Just goes to show you my citation didn't really matter at all. Go figure! It's just...
*facepalm*
"Why should superstition get the slightest bit of respect beyond that accorded to secular political ideology?"
I dunno, but it's worked really well in the good old US of A for the last 12 more years hasn't it?
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
So basically, if we want to see where the pro-Israel lobby is astroturfing, we just have to download their "megaphone" app and wait for it to point us in the right direction. Then we can just follow them there and post actual facts. Brilliant!
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
How is this bigot not modded troll/flamebait?
To turn a blind eye to murder due to the victims ideology, race, or religion is reprehensible.
Imagine the year is 1941:
A few attacks on individuals, especially those who hail from an enemy culture and religion , are not nearly enough to bother with invading Germany. Real Americans aren't Jews and don't care what happens to them any more than we'd care if some thoughtful soul was murdering Japs.
Does the above seem any different?
There's just one tiny problem. The Iranian regime is going after everyone *except* muslims (well they attack those muslims that forget what their religion says about dissent too). So are a dozen other gulf regimes.
I suspect the very moment Iran's government steps beyond some unstated boundary, the military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan will get shifted into Iran for a major and bloody regime change. When a government's #1 enemy is the people it governs, the government leaders endanger themselves.
I think the government of Iran should take a lesson from the government of the U.S. You cannot go against the will of the people. You have to manipulate the will of the people and then go with it.
Actually, the Iranian regime is Shia, not mainstream Muslim. Shia represent a minority (estimates vary from 5% to 15%) of the worldwide Muslim population that the Western media lumps together. Mainstream Islam (Sunni, counting for between 805 to 90%) is hugely different from Shia, although the Shia people are allowed into Sunni countries freely and without incident (roughly 100,000 enter Saudi Arabia annually to perform the Hajj to Mecca, without incident).
In Iran, Shia are a majority, the only country in which this is the case. They are going after the traditional Muslims, who are contending that the brutality of the regime is not consistent with Sharia law, which has very clear principles. Ironically, the Western media is pointing to the Iranian regime and blaming its adherence to Sharia as the cause for the unrest there.
Sharia law is not counter to human rights, Sharia law resulted in a 1,400 year long reign over the middle east which was described by Jewish historian Bernard Lewis as the only time man has achieved true social harmony. It's a pity that the Western media has absolutely no idea what Sharia is, but bashes it based on a few clips from some village of some woman being whipped, regardless of the fact that Sharia had no part in such instances and does not condone violence against anyone, man, woman, Muslim or otherwise. Sharia law worked for 1,400 years in the middle east, and only fell when World War 1, a European war, spilled over into the region.
Sharia law causing global instability indeed.
Gosh, the Iranian government is snooping around the internet, collating data and trying to identify potential terrorists. Now where have I heard that before? Hmmm...
Vik :v)
Silence! I kill you!
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
there were two schools of thought in iran since the 1979 revolution:
1. its a democracy. the whole supreme leader bs is just for window dressing
2. its a theocracy. the whole elections bs is just to appease the crowds
this central crisis in the iranian government seems to have been resolved in june 2009, with iran going the theocratic route, which is the substance of your comment
but its actually going a third route: military dictatorship, with the supreme leadership bs as window dressing AND the elections bs as crowd appeasement
the supreme leader is actually now hostage of the elite revolutionary guard, he has no real power. ahmadinejad is an old hand of the revolutionary guard. watch the next leader of iran to be handpicked from the revolutionary guard and "elected" by the people and "approved" by the ayatollah. now, the whole of the complex iranian government apparatus is under their sway and influence. the central unanswered schism between theocracy and democracy in the previous complex government arrangement has meant someone had to fill the power vacuum, and it has been filled: by the military
either way, the crowd appeasement obviously isn't working. the people of iran are pissed, and as in any country where the will of the people is not addressed, the government's illegitimacy grows over time, as the agenda of the government and the agenda of the common man grow further apart. this will reach a breaking point. could take years or decades, with plenty of suffering during that time. throw in nuclear weapons for fun
but until such time as iran falls yet again into revolution due to not being a democracy, iran is now a military dictatorship. not officially of course. much like north korea is officially the DEMOCRATIC people's republic of korea. yeah, north korea is a democracy (roll's eyes)
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
now that you have weighed in on a dead argument that has already been resolved, when do you point some of your withering moral denunciations on the illegitimate government of iran?
or is your insightful probing mind permanently pointed only at the usa for some reason?
pffft
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
In the late 1970's there were many Iranian college students in the Boston/Cambridge area (I was at MIT) and they would participate in protests against the Shah. In order to protect their families back home they had to wear masks to protests as they believed Iranian agents were in the US taking photographs and tracking their movements. So the concept is not new even though the regime and the tracking technology has changed dramatically. Talk about "deja vu".
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
If by "worked well" you mean economy driven into the ground, one dead political party, a whole generation of full retards, then sure!
When in the last century has the US actually tried not interfering with *anything*?
Right now we are doing exactly that, bending over backwards in fact to say just about nothing about the protests or questioning whatsoever the legitimacy of the current regime in Iran.
And what does it get us? The exact same rhetoric they have always used. When U.S. involvement they complain about is imaginary continuing to not get involved can hardly stop the complaints. Back in WW2 the soviet line is we were causing the potato famine by dropping evil U.S. Potato Bugs from Colorado on the fields. In reality they had stripped away all sorts of trees which meant the birds moved out which meant bugs flourished...
You can never appease a chronic complainer. You can only stop the complaining.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
when do you point some of your withering moral denunciations on the illegitimate government of iran?
or is your insightful probing mind permanently pointed only at the usa for some reason?
I'm American, not Iranian. I don't owe Iran my praise or criticism.
if you say your concerns are wholly domestic, then you need to refrain your criticism of the us government to only domestic issues
if you say that is impossible, that our relationship with the outside world matters, then you also need to be intellectually honest and look at and criticize other regimes, since that certainly matters in our relationship with the wider world
but you can't have it both ways, as you are currently claiming, that somehow criticism of only the us government on matters that involve other governments is somehow logically coherent or in any way helpful
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
America entered both WWI and WWII only when it became apparent that Germany would negativly affect America if they won the war. The people at the time were largely peace-loving and didn't want to go to an agressive, pre-emptive war. But when america was threatened with a German alliance with Mexico in WWI and the bombing of pear harbor in WWII, we took up the call for war and brought the hurt.
America should never preemptively crush another nation because bad things happen there. We would have to police the world, and we are not nearly powerful enough or numerous enough. Even if we tried, it would turn us into the evil empire that so many people are calling us.
There is absolutely no evidence that the election was rigged. Ahaminejad is very popular and has previously won election with big margins.
There is circumstantial evidence, and then there's the way the Ahaminejad and his supporters have acted. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. This regime seems to be like the ZANU PF in Zimbabwe. Violent, mad, megalomaniacs.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Through the 1992 presidential campaign, I had to sit through story after story after story about how Clinton protested the Vietnam War while he was in England. This was all 20 years after it happened, and was seen as a completely legitimate line of enquiry by the media and the establishment.
As far as government monitoring, I know people in the US with FBI files thousands of pages thick due to their involvement in peace or civil rights movements. The Patriot Act has widened the range of permissible activities beyond anything allowed in the twentieth century.
In fact, John Kerry going to France in the early 1970s was considered an issue in the 2004 campaign, and in fact Kerry doing things like that was the main line of attack against him in the presidential campaign.
Oh, but this is big, evil Iran. The country whose secular government the CIA overthrew in the 1950s because the Iranians wanted control over their own oil. They have to play by a different set of rules than we do.
Punishing people for speaking out. I hope they don't start letting filthy cockroach Jews take over everything like America has.
too often you see people on the internet stubborn beyond the point of helping anything they care about. you sir are an honest person of strong character
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Iran is the same as China, when it comes to occupied Tibet and Tibetans outside of Tibet. Look at the Dalai Lama-he has the Noble Peace prize from the West & The Chinese admin, call him a "Terrorist."
China does this to its own citizens too.
Shame is, when South Africa did this, we boycotted them. Now the West is greedy and forgotten her Demcratic roots and trades with a Tyranical Iranical Chinese.
Bad karma.
See what I mean? In discussion about societal hardships of Iranians, pointing fingers at Islam is relatively acceptable.
But mentioning that this isn't specific to Islam, and hence pointing at it as the deciding factor, in isolation to much bigger issues, is counter-productive...is suddenly seen as out of scope of discussion.
Which leads me to suspicion that the ones not applying the same fair treatment for all religions in this context, the ones blaming Islam in case of Iran and similar states are simply on a new kind of crusade...but with the same old "our faith vs. theirs".
That won't lead to anything good.
One that hath name thou can not otter
> If they think they are anointed by their imaginary celestial friend, they require enthusiastic liquidation in the manner of the French Revolution.
(A beautiful act, and worthy of emulation.)
If you think that chaotically seizing and killing anyone who appeared to be rich or who was denounced by someone loudly enough is "worthy of emulation," you're quite nuts. I mean, it's not like they call it the Reign of Terror. Maybe you like it because among the revolutionaries were many atheists as well as those who merely hated the Catholic church (both for real and imagined wrongs). But the crazy mob during the Terror killed the "father of modern chemistry" who gave us things like the law of the conservation of mass. Antonie Lavoisier was beheaded because someone claimed he sold watered-down tobacco.
Read about NITV:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/24/magazine/24NITV.html?pagewanted=all
One of the regulars on there was attacked in Los Angeles with a bat and lost an eye.
Do you have ESP?
everything is equivalent, all governments in the world are equal. there's no difference at all between the iranian government and the american government
is that the point you were trying to make? i wouldn't want to accuse you of being disingenuous, after all
see i knew this guy once who REALLY hated the government of zimbabwe. whenever a discussion came up about the crimes of this government or that government, he would say "yeah but in zimbabwe..." and try to steer the conversation back to the issue of the vast evil of the government of zimbabwe. which i guess is ok, as long as he admitted he had a colossal chip on his shoulder, and wasn't at all pretending to be unbiased or intellectually honest, and that he wasn't actually interested in bettering the world, instead that he was just holding a grudge and seeking a vendetta. right?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
although the Shia people are allowed into Sunni countries freely and without incident (roughly 100,000 enter Saudi Arabia annually to perform the Hajj to Mecca, without incident).
Wrong. In most so called "Islamic" countries(more accurately called "Sunni countries") particularly in the Middle East, Shias are persecuted by the government and by their "fellow muslims" among the public and even though Saudi Arabia allows Shias in for Hajj, aside from that, it is illegal under that country's law to practice Shia Islam. They may not open their own mosques. A person qho publicly declares his/her beliefs stands to become a victim of violence. Moreover, if one is a victim of a crime, it's not likely the police will help them. Saudi Arabia is a gigantic laughable clusterf*ck of a country and the main sponsor of terrorism in the world, but I don't see any warplanes going after targets in Riyadh. I wonder if oil's got anything to do with it...
Ever notice where most of those suicide bombs in Iraq go off? They're not random. They are blown up in Shia areas like Sadr City by Sunni extremists who want to drive a wedge between the two groups - also the Sunni extremists believe Shias to be "infidels" and that they will go to heaven for killing them. The same thing happens in rural Pakistan where Shias are 30% of the population. Sharia law is nice on a theoretical philosophical level but it's about time people realised humans are not capable of implementing it, and should just give up on trying. Instead, attempting to be good humans would be an idea. Shia Islam has a stronger concept of human rights than the UN does but, it's not like there are many people who really uphold that.
they require enthusiastic liquidation in the manner of the French Revolution.
(A beautiful act, and worthy of emulation.)
I don't think any sane person would want to have a repeat of the French revolution
The Reign of Terror, during which the ruling faction ruthlessly exterminated all potential enemies, of whatever sex, age, or condition, began in September of 1793 and lasted until the fall of Robespierre on July 27, 1794: during the last six weeks of the Terror alone (the period known as the "Red Terror") nearly [b]fourteen hundred people were guillotined in Paris alone[/b]. The Convention was replaced in October of 1795 with the Directory, which was replaced in turn, in 1799, by the Consulate. Napoleon Buonaparte became Emperor in May of 1804..........In its early stages it portrayed itself as a triumph of the forces of reason over those of superstition and privilege,...... it descended into the madness of the Reign of Terror,
IIRC you could even be arrested for eating the wrong style of bread.
We don't need to imagine, because that's what happened. The USA only entered the war because it became clear it would affect them.
I'm sure they know who I am and where I live. I've already gotten one threatening phone call and I told them to come on over, I would make tea and introduce them to my friends.
The VEVAK is welcome to try and come pull their bullshit. I will teach them about a country where the government does NOT have a monopoly on force, and send them back to Khamenei in a pine box covered in bacon.
I have no tolerance for totalitarianism, anywhere, in any way. It is a cancer in human society and the only way to expunge it is to meet it with forceful defiance every step of the way.
...let's get rid of those deuce bags.
The evidence is in the reaction. If there had been no cheating, then they wouldn't have resisted a recount to the point of killing people. It is EASY to prove a fair election, all they had to do was show people, the didn't.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I thought iRan was a running shoe made by Nike
Islam is a BELIEF, and it is provably an enemy of all other belief systems.
"Muslim" is not an ethnic or racial term, it's an IDEOLOGICAL term.
You wouldn't call me a "bigot" for attacking Communism, so how dare you call me a bigot for attacking another belief, Islam?
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
I remember this thing. The register called it lobbyware and were less than impressed but noted there was already a hacked Palestinian version of it.
Aren't you assuming that Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollah have any sort of legitimacy at home? Judging from the huge fiasco around the elections earlier this year, I was under the impression that the only people who believe anything the current regime says are the hard-right, who would never support the pro-green camp, anyways.
Iran can continue spouting this and that about falsifications and the evil British empire, but ultimately I don't think anyone is going to believe any of it, anymore, except for the people who are unmovably pro-Ahmadinjead, anyways.
Any Iranians, correct me if I'm wrong?
In fact I would.
Communism is no less a valid ideology then Capitalism. The fact that you do not like it does not make the murder of its supporters a trivial matter.
"The fact that you do not like it does not make the murder of its supporters a trivial matter."
The fact that it is an enemy of all secular thought and of modern democratic civilization makes the murder of its supporters by each other a bonus.
Trivial? Yes, useful, desirable, and key to fighting them.
I don't believe that fairness to enemies is more important than defeating them. If Muslims are willing to kill each other, I'm delighted and do not advocate intererfence with their self-actualization. I approve of all the intra-Islamic violence possible, I'm delighted when Shia and Sunni are at each others throats, and I want them to destroy each other, Their superstition is bad so they deserve to die in a manner that most discredits it, so why not enjoy the show?
As to the case in point, for Iranians acting for the Iran government to kill Iranians who happen to be in America would make dandy anti-Mullocracy propaganda, but it would be silly to go to war over it, technical casus belli or no. That would not be useful to the US, because whenever the US strikes back it is seen as evil. A few dead Iranians would better serve the cause as martyrs, and perhaps help trigger revolutionary sentiment at home. American intervention would only provoke a long insurgency and benefit Islam.
I'm fine with useful violence, but not with counterproductively losing thousands of US military casualties (and many more Iranians, assuming one cares) over a few assassinations.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Wonderful. To paraphrase AvP - Whoever wins, we lose. Or from a somewhat older source, the first casualty of war, is Truth.
Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
I'm not sure if it's right or not, but that's the first clear explanation of the difference between Farsi and Persian. Please mod parent interesting, if nothing else to bait the knowledgable into responding.
=~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
Sharia law is not counter to human rights,
Did the muslim countries sign the declaration of human rights ? Well, no. They signed the "Cairo declaration of human rights in islam".
There's a difference between the 2 treaties.
This is the opinion, not of some baboon, nor of any non-muslim. It is the opinion of the oic. It is the opinion of 83 muslim heads of state. They specifically state :
The CDHRI gives men and women the "right to marriage" regardless of their race, colour or nationality, but not religion. In addition women are given "equal human dignity", "own rights to enjoy", "duties to perform", "own civil entity", "financial independence", and the "right to retain her name and lineage", though not equal rights in general. The Declaration makes the husband responsible for the social and financial protection of the family. The Declaration gives both parents the rights over their children, ...
Art. 19 stipulates that there are no other crimes or punishments than those mentioned in the Sharia, which include corporal punishment (whippings, amputations) and capital punishment. The right to hold public office can only be exercised in accordance with the Sharia, which forbids Muslims to submit to the rule of non-Muslims.
Do you still believe : "sharia law is not counter to human rights" ?
If not, what exactly are you going to claim ? That heads of state of muslim theocracies know nothing of islam ?
Read the whole pit of filth that is muslim's relation to human rights
Of course let's not forget that this post is just a racist collection of, factually true, hate-filled arguments specifically meant to "shame" muslims, okay ?
Sharia law is not counter to human rights, Sharia law resulted in a 1,400 year long reign over the middle east which was described by Jewish historian Bernard Lewis as the only time man has achieved true social harmony.
Somehow I doubt Bernard Lewis ever actually had to live as a dhimmi under Sharia, so I'm going to take the various opinions I've heard from people who did over his. They say it basically amounted to Jim Crow with Muslims cast as the whites and Jews and Christians as the blacks.
much like the iranian people
being against the iranian REGIME is not being anti-iran. as illegitimate in the eyes of its own people as the regime is, being against is therefore pro-iranian
but why do i even waste my time stating fucking obvious logical inferences to abject morons?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it