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NYT's "Games To Avoid" an Ironic, Perfect Gamer Wish List
MojoKid writes "From October to December, the advertising departments of a thousand companies exhort children to beg, cajole, and guilt-trip their parents for all manner of inappropriate digital entertainment. As supposedly informed gatekeepers, we sadly earthbound Santas are reduced to scouring the back pages of gaming review sites and magazines, trying to evaluate whether the tot at home is ready for Big Bird's Egg Hunt or Bayonetta. Luckily, The New York Times is here to help. In a recent article provokingly titled 'Ten Games to Cross off Your Child's Gift List,' the NYT names its list of big bads — the video games so foul, so gruesome, so perverse that we'd recommend you buy them immediately — for yourself. Alternatively, if you need gift ideas for the surly, pale teenager in your home whose body contains more plastic then your average d20, this is the newspaper clipping to stuff in your pocket. In other words, if you need a list like this to understand what games to not stuff little Johnny's stocking with this holiday season, you've got larger issues you should concern yourself with. We'd suggest picking up an auto-shotty and taking a few rounds against the horde — it's a wonderful stress relief and you're probably going to need it."
And the list:
Assassin’s Creed II
Borderlands
Brutal Legend
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
Dead Space: Extraction
Dragon Age: Origins
Grand Theft Auto IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony
Demon’s Souls
Left 4 Dead 2
Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars
Looks like a list of all the fun games of this year.
But oh, the fun just starts. Check out the alternatives list:
Alternative: Mirror's Edge
Alternative: Infamous
Alternative: Ghostbusters: The Video Game
Alternative: Battlefield: Bad Company
Alternative: Deadly Creatures
Alternative: Braid
Alternative: Batman: Arkham Asylum
Alternative: Uncharted 2: Among Thieves
Alternative: Overlord II
Alternative: C.O.P.: The Recruit
Many of the games on the alternatives list have exactly the same kind of violence. Hell, in Overlord you're taking control of a evil god like character that controls his minions to destroy and kill enemies, the good people.
I bet many of us played games that had gore as teens. They should had have sex too - it's even a natural thing, while violence is not (or shouldn't be). The problem isn't the gore and it wont turn a teenager in to a mindless massacer - if it is, then he has other problems that the parents should be taking care of.
Interesting, with all the graphic violence in Modern Warfare 2, it's funny that the only objectionable aspect of it is that the player can opt to go "undercover as an enemy terrorist."
It's time to realise that Abble's products are the biggest abomination these days. Just say NO to the dumb iAbble way!!
Actually, the article is far less irritating than the summary had led me to believe. Yes, it points out 10 games that are not recommended for children and teens. But it isn't trying to get the games banned (the original commonsensemedia article actually points out that these are good games), just trying to help parents make informed decisions. This, I believe, is a good thing.
Moreover, the "suggested replacement" games aren't all of the "Barbie Horse Adventures" ilk. While a few made me raise an eyebrow, most of them are reasonable enough replacements.
Let's take a look at the list:
Assassin's Creed 2 replaced by Mirror's Edge: I haven't played AC2, but I would probably agree that the original AC is "not for kids". Mirror's Edge doesn't seem outlandish as a replacement; it's not some twee kiddy game and it does contain violence. It's just a bit less "in your face" with it. So no problems with this one.
Borderlands for Infamous: Ok, this one made me go "hmm". Borderlands has highly cartoonish violence, while Infamous is actually quite dark in its theme and has highly morally ambiguous characters. Weirdly, I think the game they've recommended is actually less suitable than the game they're replacing.
Brutal Legend for Ghostbusters: I'd have no problem with this, particularly as Ghostbusters is actually the better game provided you avoid the dismal PC version.
Call of Duty MW2 for Battlefield Bad Company 2: Fair enough. I believe a lot of PC gamers already made this switch due to the dedicated servers issue anyway. Both are respectable but unspectacular games, once you get past the hype.
Dead Space: Extraction for Deadly Creatures: I've not played Deadly Creatures, but I have played Extraction (which puts me in a small minority, judging by its dismal sales figures). While it's a "light gun" game, Extraction is absolutely and emphatically not for kids. It is dark, scary and gory.
Dragon Age: Origins for Braid: This one's deeply weird. Dragon Age isn't exactly your average hack-em-up arcade game. I suspect that any under-18s asking for Dragon Age and patient enough to stick with it past the first 10 minutes are probably mature enough to deal with it. And Braid as a replacement? A platform/puzzler as a replacement for an RPG? No, I don't think so. If I were to suggest a replacement, it would probably be Last Remnant, Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon, which are at least RPGs. Or get them into the whole retro thing with a copy of Baldur's Gate 2 - the themes are still as mature, but it's harmless if it's just little sprites, right? :)
GTA IV for Batman: Arkham Asylum: Again, the games aren't quite the same genre, so this is a tricky one. However, GTA is not for kids, end of story. The Batman game is awesome, and probably dark enough in its theme and style to satisfy most teenagers. So yes, you could do worse than this.
Demon's Souls for Uncharted 2: Yeah, no real problems with this. To be honest, I prefer Uncharted 2 as a game anyway (though this may put me in a minority).
Left 4 Dead 2 for Overlord 2: Another strange one. Overlord 2 is not an fps. Nor is it a particularly co-operative game. Nor is it fantastically good. Nor is it morally squeaky-clean (though the violence is cartoonish). I guess you could always try to track down the Australian version of L4D2.
GTA: Chinatown for C.O.P.: well, at least it's one sandbox game for another. The problem is that the reviews all seem to show that C.O.P. is basically rubbish. It's probably your best option while staying within the same genre on the same platform, but you can still expect a lot of disappointment on Christmas morning with this switch.
So yeah, at least some of the switches recommended are sensible, and this isn't a dreadful guide to parents who might not be massively savvy in these matters. On this basis, did the article summary really need to take the tone that it did?
Seriously, anyone who needs to read this review shouldn't have the responsibility of children. A quick look at the ESRB rating of each of the above games will tell you that little Johnny who is 8 shouldn't be playing Dragon Age, GTA or assassins Creed!!
There is no -1 disagree
"I mean, if computer games really had any effect on our behavior we would be sitting in some dark room, bobbing our head to monotonous repetitive music while popping pills all night. ..."
Cannot find REALITY.SYS. Universe halted.
Not because of its content being age inappropriate for children...but because of it's difficulty. While the game is tremendously rewarding if you invest time in it, the game can be furiously frustrating if you aren't a veteran gamer. Casual gamers, especially younger gamers, should avoid this game without question.
Without out that list, how could parents ever know that an M rated game wasn't appropriate for kids?
I mean, it's not like there is a rather visible ESRB M logo which says Mature 17+ on the front or back of the game case, if not both.
Or that most stores tend to post an ESRB list by their games.
Or even that the ESRB has been around for 15 years.
I mean really... if even one of those things had been true, that list would be totally inane.
Errr, sorry what? Are you sure? No, really, it can't be...
Ummm...
Excuse me everyone, apparently I was mistaken.
It seems that all of those, um, examples are in fact true. Boy is my editors face red for letting that one slip through.
I'll return you to your previously viewed ranting as soon as you stop reading this.
>^_^<
First, it's not the NYT. It's a blog of the NYT. Big difference.
Second, the NYT blog simply asks readers to discuss a list compiled by Common Sense Media of ten games not to buy your children.
So to ascribe the list to the New York Times itself is incredibly misleading.
You're a parent, an uncle, a grandfather. You don't play video games. You want to give something the kid will like. You hear he's "into" video games. You step into the local gamer store, and ...
YOU HAVE NO CLUE
The one thing you want to avoid is buying that game with "blood spurting out of victims' bodies, human carcasses littering the floor, blood-stained walls and floors, and copious screams of torture" (Dead Space: Extraction). Otherwise, your sister Jenny will have your head on a platter ... for real.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
If you don't have it, get it now. Child-friendly, and great for adults too.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
The article (yeah, I did RTFA) points out that those games are rated for age 17+, so I don't see what the issue is.
I wouldn't want my kids playing COD-MW2 or L4D2, but to be honest, they wouldn't want to play them anyway - they'd be much happier with the latest cutesy Wii party game, or something for the DS involving ponies.
Yet again, the mainstream media make the assumption that all games are for kids and are therefore completely shocked to see that some games involve blood, gore and subversive naughtiness.
Actually, I don't think they're shocked at all. They just think that their readers will be, and that's what sells papers and generates click revenue.
Oh, how convenient: a theory about God that doesn't involve looking through a telescope.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/arts/television/08assassin.html Made me want to buy the game.
Nazi zombies riding velociraptors!! I wanna play THAT game!
"Actually, the article is far less irritating than the summary had led me to believe."
You must be new around here.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
If someone has too much spare time on their hands, maybe they can find out who are the studios/publishers to those games, maybe there's a pattern to the "avoid"/"get" list? Just curious...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
...when the kids open their presents and find out they got nothing nearly close to what they wanted, maybe even the game that everyone in their class already turned up their nose at.
Yeah, it sure gonna be a peaceful, holy night. Well, ok, it wouldn't be for them either way, since L4D2 sure ain't peaceful and anything but holy, but at least the rest of the family would have some peace.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
And potentially mow down masses of civilians in an airport with a light machine gun while walking very slowly..., without.. you know, any attempt to stop the massacre from happening.
The world "wholesome" needs to be retired. It has been misused for decades now.
It's also one of those words what indicate that you should listen with skepticism. It differs greatly from person to person and generation to generation. I'm sure that in pre-civil rights era south (and even today as we see sometimes) they considered their antics "wholesome."
If you RTFA, you'll see that this is a list from Common Sense Media being reported by the NYT, not the NYT editorializing. In fact, the very first item on the list, Assassin's Creed 2, just got an almost ridiculously glowing review (that even sort of recommended it for high school students because it might enthuse them about Renaissance Italy) from the Times this week. The Times' "conclusion" is to ask you what you think about this list and recommend discussing it below.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
FTA:
...things that have been proven to have a negative effect on children
This tired argument again? I won a writing award when I was 17 debunking the myth that video games and violent cartoons have a "negative effect" on kids. Of course when I was 17, video games were: Zork, Pac-Man, Donkey Kong (super violent and sexist), and Asteroids.
the game features combat, decapitations and swords plunged into the chests of both people and dragons.
The New York Times article merely says that these games are not suitable for children and if you read the list they aren't. The NYT does not make nor even imply any judgement about the quality of the games in question.
We've had friends/neighbors/family that have let their first grader watch CSI. Movies, such as "Transformers" (it's rated PG-13 for a reason folks) are being watched by my in-law's five-year-old. I've seen many well-meaning grandmas in the store buying whatever music/movie/video game their sweet little sociopath of a grandchild has on their wishlist.
While I don't necessarily believe that watching hours of video game/movie killings makes little Johnny a mass murderer, it does do "something", and at the very least desensitizes them to what they see.
Film at 11.
Are they really recommending Braid as a "kid-friendly" game? Braid? I'm generally impressed with Common Sense Media's take on reviews in that they look at all aspects of a movie or game when judging its appropriateness. But with Braid, the themes of the game are going to be way over the heads of most kids. I guess if your 12-year old really wanted to play it, why not. But as High Fidelity taught us there are other dangers of exposing impressionable teens to this kind of thing:
What came first, the music or the misery? People worry about kids playing with guns, or watching violent videos, that some sort of culture of violence will take them over. Nobody worries about kids listening to thousands, literally thousands of songs about heartbreak, rejection, pain, misery and loss. Did I listen to pop music because I was miserable? Or was I miserable because I listened to pop music?
FTA:
[blockquote] if you need gift ideas for the surly, pale teenager in your home whose body contains more plastic then your average d20[/blockquote]
What on earth is this supposed to mean? Is there some kind of gamer fad to get nose jobs or something?
When living in a fantasy world, you learn nothing about the real world.
That's why the "Troll" mod was invented.
I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
I learned all my social skills in fantasy worlds.
I was reading about one of the recommended games on the linked site and my brain exploded when I read "six-legged creatures: a scorpion and tarantula"
By the way, Braid is a great puzzle game.
I never understood the puritan view we have in American in regards to Sex and Violence. I actually agree that we should minimize exposure to violence for children. I have to wonder if we're a bit backward. It seems like Europe has a much better view on things. Minimize exposure to violence for young children, but don't be so paranoid about sexual content. Violent crime has always been out of control in the US as compared to similarly developed countries overseas. We allow our children to watch all sorts of violent movies, play violent games, yet we shelter them from any exposure to sexuality like it was some sort of dirty secret.
(note, the difference is rape rates between the US and Europe is even more pronounced, with the US showing about 7 times the rate of European nations).
What's wrong with this picture?
Homicides for every 100,000 persons:
Ireland [0.9]
Germany [0.9]
Norway [1.0]
United Kingdom [1.4]
France [1.6]
Canada [1.9]
Scotland [1.59]
United States [5.6]
Russia [20.15]
Venezuela [31.61]
Jamaica [32.41]
Colombia [61.78]
If you go to the source article it's quite clear they are offering alternatives for what they consider to be very good games that (according to the age rating) are unsuitable to kids.
The descriptions of the games are also generally very positive with the only issue being the suitability for minors. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the article inspired some parents to make a few orders for when they "confiscate" the xbox at night:
I don't see what is at all objectionable about that. Perhaps you disagree with the ratings system, but that's another issue.
Now, it's a shame the NYT article is less than clear about the games and is lacking in the good substance of the original article, but they had to change something in an otherwise plagiarised article. Still, my criticism is limited since if you want appalling media you have no better example than this here on Slashdot. It leads to a derivative article that adds nothing whatsoever to the original source on CommonSense. There is no justification for not "going to source" unless the objective is to ignorantly trash the NYT for ignorantly trashing violent games (well, at least the "irony" does have some relevance after all). I'm also unsure why, despite evidently being aware of the source, the OP actually states "the NYT names its list of big bads". Objective assertions like "provokingly" also seem unnecessary.
All this is quite bizarre given the same criticism can't be said of the hothardware article the OP lifts from (by the way it seems rather bad form to lift so heavily from an article when it is not prominent). His name in the OP linking to hothardware implies MojoKid is from the site though I can't see anything to corroborate that and am included to assume that is another error.
Actually, the article is far less irritating than the summary had led me to believe. Yes, it points out 10 games that are not recommended for children and teens. But it isn't trying to get the games banned (the original commonsensemedia article actually points out that these are good games), just trying to help parents make informed decisions. This, I believe, is a good thing.
It's also hardly ironic that a list of "games not to buy your children when they ask for them" would be populated by good games worth asking for. It's not like everyone's kids are asking for shitty games.
Write your representatives! Repeal the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics!
I suggest we ban all games with guns and nudity... What do you mean by "nothing left to play except Tetris"?
"FYI, they've banned communism too. Oh, you meant Nintendo Gameboy Tetris. Well that's okay I guess. It's only one colour.
Just keep St. Basil's Cathedral out of it before the kids try to learn something about Russia and get recruited by the KGB."
(tags: slipperyslope satire punditry)
Is this not proof of my statement in posts a few days ago that the New York Times is as equally reliable a news source as the National Enquirer?
Is it any surprise that Network news all the way to print media is playing to lowbrow "Maury Povich" interests just to get anyone to look at them in light of their imminent demise and publicly heard death rattles?
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
I don't know about the other games on the list, but you can turn off the gore and language in Brutal Legend. Brings it down from Mature to Teen IMO.
The reason I don't think it's appropriate to expose children to sexual material at a young age has to do with them not being mature enough to understand the full consequences of sex. It's easy enough to tell a child not to kill your brother or one of the other kids in class, but they simply aren't mentally prepared to understand the nuances of sex and when it's appropriate. When given a choice between telling a child sex is bad, don't do it, or avoiding the discussion until they are more prepared to understand I'll chose the latter.
Note: Nudity and sex are not the same thing. I don't agree with the puritanical position that nudity is bad and kids should be protected from it.
Have you noticed that people who are socially backwards play a lot of video games? When living in the real world you learn nothing of the fantasy worlds.
I learned all my fantasy skills in social worlds.
Ya, so what? It's a game. Is that somehow worse than killing your opponent when you defeat them in Mortal Kombat?
Grimm's Fairy Tales should be banned due to themes of excessive violence, cannabalism, and murder. Listening to or reading these stories can't possibly be good for impressionable young children! Also, The Holy Bible contains depictions of murder, adultery, rape, and incest -- again, definitely not suitable for children. (Similar arguments apply to the Quran, the Talmud, and the Bhagavad Gita.)
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Crime through out Europe is generally under counted.
the 5.4 number is not for all of Europe, and why do you have Europe and then countries of Europe broken out? When you put in Eastern Europe the number rise to US levels.
If I could remove certain states from US level and out them in there own, the US level would be below 5.4
When talking about numbers like these on a global scale, you should out down the world number for some sort of relevance. it's about 7.1.
Finally you make a common logic error. You compare Europe to the US in rape and them associate that to the Us's Prudish ways without taking into consideration other prudish countries and their rape level, and the societal accepts of reporting rape, and what society considers rape.
I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you, just pointing out that there are several errors and consideration the need to be taken into consideration. These are common errors.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This list won't be complete until they list Infocom's "Leather Goddesses of Phobos"
Talk about interactive, this game was scratch-n-sniff
Actually, I haven't really noticed that. I have noticed that most people these days play video games. And if they don't they escape in to fantasy worlds through books or other outlets. Stop being so judgmental.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
The gratuitous ultra-violence in that game is really over the top. It's still fun but you might cringe at your own actions when you swoop down from a building, grab some dude who starts crying and screaming AAAH PLEASE GOD NO!!!!!! (standard NPC behavior when you grab or slaughter them), then you beat him to death (or cut/tear him in half if you prefer) and digest his remains with your...tentacles. So you can get some information out of him. Yeah. Other possibilities include jump-kicking human/zombie enemies into the ground and using their body as a self-lubricating land surfboard, cutting everything in an 18m radius in half with a single swipe, and impaling everything in a 40m radius with spikes from the ground or tentacles from the air. To say that you'll inflict a lot of collateral damage in Prototype would be the understatement of the year, to say nothing of the insane levels of gore in general. But then in the cutscenes Alex says he feels bad and the bad guys are portrayed as being even worse so it's all for the greater good!
And Chinatown Wars is on the list? It has cursing and very NSFW text but the violence is cartoonish and heavily pixelated. You shoot someone or run someone over, they scream, maybe say something funny like "AAAH I'M STILL A VIRGIN!" then they fall over and a red blotch appears under them. Big deal.
Also I don't see the big deal among the THINK OF TEH CHILDREN crowd with the Left 4 Dead series. The game could scare children, for sure, but you're killing mindless bloodthirsty monsters to ensure your own survival. Gore (which can be disabled) is realistic (well, assuming those zombies are kinda soft and rotten), but not overdone and glorified. There's nothing morally reprehensible about the game. In fact I'd say it carries a positive message with its strong focus on teamwork and sharing.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I assume you don't play videogames, if so, you can't socialize when the topic comes up. I'm curious, do you think that by discussing videogames, someone is being socially backwards? Could it be that because you don't fit in whenever you are in a group of gamers, you project the awkward feeling you get onto others, then you avoid those awkward people? What is it that your circle of friends discuss? Sports? Books? Politics? Science? Movies? Girls? Cars? Fashion?
If you are talking about people who don't like to socialize at all, then it's obvious that they are simply lacking the motivation to be social, or they suffer from social phobia, so they spend a lot of time doing things by themselves, regardless of what their interests may be. Children fantasize all the time, taking on all kinds of roles. That's how they practice socializing.